1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm to bling a Chalk Reporting and I'm Fair Dowdy 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: and we were continuing here with our look at H. H. Holmes, 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: the man who is often referred to as America's first 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: serial killer and one of our most requested topics now. 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: Holmes became famous for the crimes he committed in Chicago 8 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the nineteenth century, around the time 9 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: of the Chicago World's Fair. But where we are in 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: the story, we don't know him as a notorious serial 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: killer yet. From what we learned in part one of 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: this podcast, he's just a really shady guy, a con artist, 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: a criminal for sure. We know he's committed insurance fraud 14 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: with the help of stolen condavers, and he's been associated 15 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: with at least one strange disappearance, that of Mrs Holton, 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: the woman he bought his first Chicago drug store from. 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: And we should also mention that he's also a deadbeat 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: husband slash dad. He left his first wife and child 19 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: and is basically estranged from his second wife, Murda and 20 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: their daughter together. Where we left off, though he has, however, 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: constructed this very unusual building with gas jets and trapdoors 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: and hidden passageways, among other things, and he's done so 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: in a secretive manner so that nobody knows the full 24 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: extent of how creepy this building really is. On the surface, 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: of course, it's just a structure to house his businesses, 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: and it's a business itself as well. It's a hotel 27 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: for the world's fair crowd. But the building's odd and 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: rather creepy features in an understatement hint at an underlying 29 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: purpose that's a lot more sinister. So when we left 30 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: off with our story, a man named Jonathan Belknop was 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: just getting a sense of that underlying creepiness of this 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: hotel slash block of buildings. So Belknop was Holmes's second wife, 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: Murda's uncle, and Holmes had recently taken a loan from 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: him and then forged his signature on another note to 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: get more money. Holmes then invited bell Knap to tour 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: his new building, and against bell Knap's a better judgment, 37 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: convinced him to stay the night after They're creepy feeling 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: up on the roof. Yes, he tried to get Holmes 39 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: had tried to get him to go on the roof, 40 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: and he had a bad feeling about it and didn't 41 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: do it. And he had a bad feeling about spending 42 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: the night too, but he did it anyway. So this 43 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: is where we're going to pick up with our story. 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 1: So bell Knap carefully locked the door before we went 45 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: to bed that night. He later recalled initially thinking that 46 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: he and Holmes were the only two people in the 47 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: building at that time. The block of buildings, which is 48 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: already kind of a disturbing feeling, something like almost a 49 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: hundred rooms. So just imagine that Bellknap goes to bed, 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: but he can't sleep. He lies awake listening to the 51 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: sounds outside, like the occasional horse going by trains, and 52 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: then after a few hours he hears something more alarming. 53 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: Someone is trying his door and they slip the key 54 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: into the lock. So at that point Balknop called out 55 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: and the sound stops. Then a couple of minutes later 56 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: he heard someone walking down the hall, and this is 57 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: the first time that makes him feel like there may 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: have been two people at the door, not just Holmes 59 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: in the building. So he said something again to that 60 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: person who was maybe still there. This time, somebody answered him, 61 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: and Belknap later said it was Patrick Quinlyn, Holmes is 62 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: trusted caretaker who he mentioned in the first part of 63 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: the podcast, and Quinlan said that he wanted to come 64 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: into the room, but balk Knope wouldn't answer, the door, 65 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't let him in, and eventually Quinlan went away. But Belknap, 66 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: as you can imagine it, still didn't get any sleep 67 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: that night after this bizarre interlude. In the early hours 68 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: of the morning, lay awake thinking about it. Right So, 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: not long after this incident, belk Nap discovers that Holmes 70 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: had forged his signature. Holmes apologized as profusely and somehow 71 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: manages to talk Belknap down, so Belknap never press charges 72 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: or reports the incident or anything that happened that night 73 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: that he spent the night in the building. According to 74 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: Eric Larson's book, though, which recounts these events in detail, 75 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: Belknap later said that he realized why Holmes had wanted 76 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: him to go on the roof of his building so 77 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: badly that day. Belknap said, quote, if I had gone, 78 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: the forgery probably wouldn't have been discovered because I wouldn't 79 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: have been around to discover it, so his hesitation about 80 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: going up there on the roof was justified, and it 81 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: kind of makes you think that he should have resisted 82 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: spending the night too, even though he ultimately got lucky 83 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: he had locked his door. He was awake when he 84 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: heard the key rattling around, And that's kind of why 85 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,119 Speaker 1: we wanted to bring up this incident in the first place. 86 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: Even though it's not one of the most significant or 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: grewesome of Holmes's story, it illustrates what happened to a 88 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: lot of people who encountered Holmes, even though they weren't 89 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: as lucky as Belknap. Several p well may have had 90 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: a funny feeling about him, a funny feeling about homes 91 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: or his strange, creepy building, but they sort of went 92 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: along with whatever was going on because they didn't want 93 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: to be rude. And that was exactly what happened with Belknap. 94 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: He didn't want to offend his niece or her husband 95 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: and Sarah, you and I have talked about this a 96 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: lot since we started researching this topic. I mean, thank 97 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: you for instincts. Trust your instincts. I mean, a lot 98 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: of us don't we're so worried about being polite all 99 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 1: the time that we ignore some of those creepy feelings 100 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: that we have now and again occasionally turned out to 101 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: be justified. Another thing, though, a lot of people who 102 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: did experience something strange or had doubts about homes in 103 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: his building didn't report their concerns to the authority. So 104 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: maybe that's another lesson out of this. Go ahead and 105 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: let somebody know if if there's a strange situation going on. 106 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: He even at one point had a large rectangular kiln 107 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: built in the basement. Nobody thought anything of reporting that. Yeah, 108 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: And when the person who had built the kiln for 109 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: Holmes came by, he was just sort of like, oh, 110 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, this was a kiln and I can 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: make it, yeah, but didn't realize until later what it 112 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: would be used for opening up pottery studio or something. 113 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: Homes exactly Well, I think it was because Holmes had 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: supposedly opened a glass business because so much glass was 115 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: needed at the time with all the construction going on 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: for the World's Fair, and so he sort of indicated 117 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: that he would need this kiln to create the glass 118 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: that he was making. But it was entirely the wrong shape. 119 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it was this long rectangular kiln, more body 120 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: five than glass, more suited to something else, to burning 121 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: up something else rather than glass. But there's a that's 122 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: a big part of why Holmes was able to do 123 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: what he did for so long and not get caught. 124 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: But we should address that question a little bit before 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: we go further. I think, what exactly was he doing? 126 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: We need to talk about how exactly he put the 127 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 1: strange building and all these strange things inside of the 128 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 1: kiln in the vaults out there already. So one of 129 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: Holmes's primary agenda seemed to involve his employees. And as 130 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: we mentioned, he had several businesses in the building, including 131 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: a drug store and a barbershop and a restaurant, and 132 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: of course all those businesses he needed help to keep 133 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: them all running. Even early on, though people noticed that 134 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: homes of employees didn't really stick around very long. He 135 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: had a high turnover. And he also had this habit 136 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: of hiring young attractive girls, often naive girls from small towns. 137 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: He'd encourage them to bring all their money with them 138 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: and rent accommodations conveniently in his building right where they're working. 139 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: And he'd also have them take out life insurance policies 140 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: naming him as the beneficiary. I mean, I think that's 141 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: the strangest thing. That's not usually how employer employee relationships work. 142 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: But these girls would work for Homes for a little while, 143 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,239 Speaker 1: and then suddenly they would just disappear, vanish off the earth, 144 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: often leaving their belongings in the rooms upstairs. Unfortunately, the 145 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: individual stories of all of these employees aren't necessarily known. 146 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: A lot of them really didn't know anybody when they 147 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: came to Chicago. They were sort of anonymous, and then 148 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: they were never found later. But there are a couple 149 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: of stories that stand out from the rest that we 150 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: want to go into. One involves a man named Ned Connor. 151 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: Connor was a jeweler who moved to Chicago at the 152 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: end of eighteen nine beginning of eighteen nine one somewhere 153 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: in there, and he started managing the jewelry counter and 154 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: Homes drug store. He his wife, Julia, and their eight 155 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: year old daughter Pearl also rented an apartment above the store, 156 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: and Julia also ended up getting a job as a 157 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: clerk in the drug store. So at first Ned really 158 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: admired his young, handsome, wealthy employer looked up to him, 159 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: in fact, and a lot of people in the neighborhood 160 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: did so. He wasn't alone in that respect, but soon 161 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: he started to feel a little bit uncomfortable with how 162 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: a ten of Holmes was towards his wife. Julia was 163 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: very pretty and very tall. She was six ft tall 164 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: in fact, and she liked this attention from Holmes. Soon 165 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: Ned began to notice that customers kind of looked at 166 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: him with pity, and some people his friends even told 167 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: him that something was going on with Holmes and his wife. 168 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: And then one day Holmes made him an offer. He 169 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: offered to sell Ned at the pharmacy and set up 170 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: a super easy payment plan for him, offered to handle 171 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: all the legal stuff involved with transferring ownership, and Ned 172 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: didn't think twice it seems about why Holmes would want 173 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: to sell him the business, especially if he was potentially 174 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: carrying on with his wife during this. He did, and 175 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: the business was doing fine. I mean, he didn't have 176 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: any suspicions there. He just thought that owning the business 177 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: might help elevate him in his wife's eyes. But it 178 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,439 Speaker 1: didn't work at all, because meanwhile Holmes was also encouraging 179 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: Ned to buy life insurance, telling him that once he 180 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: and Julia were on good terms again, he'd want to 181 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: protect his family. Ned refused that aspect of the deal. 182 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: But not long after he took ownership of the pharmacy 183 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: from homes creditors started showing up and apparently the previous 184 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: owner H. H. Holmes, of course, had bought everything in 185 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: the store, the furniture, even the stock, on credit and 186 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: hadn't repaid a dime. So the new owner, Ned was 187 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: stuck with all of this debt and the only thing 188 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: he could do is commit to repaying them as soon 189 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 1: as possible. So instead of a new drug store to 190 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: impress Julia with, he has this dead weight around his ankle. 191 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: So think about if this happened to you. I mean, 192 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: you would imagine Ned to go up to Holmes to 193 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: be really angry and get in a fight. Yeah, so 194 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: he approaches Holmes, but Holmes just acts really sympathetic and 195 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: gives Ned some sort of you know, hey, all businesses 196 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: have debts, and I'm sure you knew this when you 197 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: went into business, that was was out of line with 198 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: the deal. They right, thinking that saying trying to imply 199 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: that nothing was unusual, But of course, he didn't offer 200 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: to help him at all either, So things continue to 201 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: get worse between Julia and Ned, and Ned started to 202 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: kind of finally believe these rumors about Holmes and Julia. 203 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: He ultimately left Julia and Pearl and abandoned his interest 204 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: in the store, and Ned eventually divorced Julia, but he 205 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: couldn't get custody of Pearl even though he wanted to. 206 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: He wanted to go get her and and bring her 207 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: to live with him. Of course, this left Holmes with 208 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: Julia and Pearl, and Julia didn't seem quite as attractive 209 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 1: to him anymore for some reason. And then, to make 210 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: matters worse, in late eightee, Julia told Holmes that she 211 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: was pregnant and so obviously she expected him to marry her. So, 212 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: according to Larson's book, Holmes calmly agreed to marry her. 213 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: Apparently he had been promising that for some time, but 214 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: said that before he did that, she'd have to have 215 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: an abortion, which he would handle sense. Of course, he 216 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: was a doctor and everything he said he'd use chloroform 217 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: she wouldn't feel anything. So Julia agreed she had no choice. 218 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: She wanted to get married. She didn't want to be 219 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: an unmarried, pregnant woman in the late eighteen hundreds, so 220 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: a friend, another tenant in the building, last saw Julia 221 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: that Christmas Eve and even made plans with her to 222 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: see Julia and Pearl the next day, but neither of 223 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: them were ever seen again after that. Holmes told people 224 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: that they had gone to visit family in Iowa, and 225 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 1: then just after Christmas, Holmes employed the services of a 226 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: man named Charles M. Chapel, who had a very special 227 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: skill and one that implicates Holmes quite a bit. In 228 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: this case. Yes Homes paid Chapel thirty six dollars to 229 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: strip the flesh from a dead woman's body and then 230 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: reassemble the skeleton. Chapel recalled later that the face of 231 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: the body was unidentifiable the face had been disfigured, but 232 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: the body was unusually tall for a woman's, so that 233 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 1: kind of suggests that it might have been Julia. Chapel, 234 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: like Pizel and Quinlan, actually ended up becoming one of 235 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: holmes trusted accomplices. Although it appears as if Chapel really 236 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: didn't suspect murder, he may have not really known what 237 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: was going on. After all. Holmes was a doctor and 238 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: this could have just been the body of one of 239 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: his patients who died. Of course, that sounds a little 240 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 1: naive to most of us, but I guess there maybe 241 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: was no way to prove that he knew for sure 242 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: that it was murder. Holmes, of course, had called Chapel 243 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: in in order to make some more money too. He 244 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: ended up selling that skeleton to Hanuman Medical College in Chicago. 245 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: And we've mentioned before how u s medical schools in 246 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: the dred Will Actually we've talked about Burke and Hare too. 247 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Medical schools around the world were really desperate for bodies, 248 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: even in skeleton form, to use an instruction, So some 249 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: doctors and students were even robbing graves at this point 250 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: to fulfill that need, satisfy that need, and Holmes knew 251 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: this and obviously used it as an opportunity to make 252 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: some good money off of off of these murders. And 253 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: unfortunately it's not the only time that Holmes used the strategy. 254 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: Another woman who ended up working for homes in Eine 255 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: two was a beautiful, young blonde woman named Emmeline sigrand 256 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: he sought her out to and offered her a job 257 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: because he'd heard of her beauty from Pizel, who'd come 258 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: across her while she was working at a facility where 259 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: he was in rehab. Holmes offered em Line twice her 260 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: previous salary to work for him, and she accepted. He 261 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: started wooing her right away, using all of his usual 262 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: charm that seemed to always work on the ladies. His 263 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: attentiveness that touched that we mentioned that was so but 264 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: at the same time comforting. So she fell in love 265 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: with him, and they would ride bikes together all over 266 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: the neighborhood. I think, if I remember from that book 267 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: was a cool new pastime. It was. It was, and 268 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: Holmes got really into buying bicycles, I guess. But eventually 269 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,479 Speaker 1: she took in a part met in his building too. 270 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: She bought his whole facade. He even embellished his personal 271 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: story and told her that he was the son of 272 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: an English lord, but told her, you know, don't tell 273 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: anyone this is secret. I don't want it to get 274 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: out because I don't want anyone to know, Like he 275 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: just didn't want to brag or something. So this just 276 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: made him seem all the more romantic. She was head 277 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: over heels for him, but when a couple of her 278 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: cousins came to visit. They weren't so taken by the 279 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: whole situation. They didn't actually meet Holmes, but they found 280 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: his building to be really creepy and gloomy, much bell 281 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: Knap did. They didn't share their feelings about it, though, 282 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: because they didn't want to hurt em Line's feelings. So 283 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: later that year, Emilne and Holmes became engaged, but by 284 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: December eight she suddenly disappeared, much like Julia's situation. A 285 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: friend in the building started asking homes about em Line, 286 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: where is she? What happened to her? And he said 287 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: that she left to go marry a man named Robert 288 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: Eve Phelps. He even produced a typed up wedding announcement, 289 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: typed up a very plain looking wedding announcement that apparently 290 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: some members of her family received as well. He had 291 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: several that she had supposedly dropped off for tenants in 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: the building that he handed out, and then some of 293 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: her family members got one in the mail well. And 294 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: no surprise here, but Emilyne had never mentioned Phelps to 295 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: her friends in the building or to her family, so 296 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: people didn't quite buy this wedding announcement thing, they kept 297 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: on inquiring about her. Her hometown newspaper found out about 298 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: the wedding and printed that now very eerie founding announcement, 299 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: which said that the bride quote after completing her education, 300 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: went to Chicago where she met her fate. Not the 301 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: most romantic founding announcement. No, and I mean by fate 302 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: they were obviously referring to marriage in kind of an 303 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: oblique way. But uh, now that we know that her 304 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: fate was very different, darker than the darker So Emilyne's 305 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: friend in the building recalled seeing a large trunk brought 306 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: downstairs soon and after Emilyne disappeared. She later said that 307 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: she felt like Holmes had killed Emilyne, but she never 308 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: went to the police and remained living in the building. 309 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: So again another case of that somebody has a suspicion, 310 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: but they not only don't speak up about it, but 311 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: they don't get out of there for themselves. I don't 312 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: take actions to protect yourself. So Holmes also employed the 313 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: services of Chapel again around that time and sold the 314 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: skeleton to a Sala medical college. A few weeks later. 315 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: After em Line, Holmes moved on to a woman named 316 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,919 Speaker 1: Minnie Williams, who he courted previously long distance while she 317 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: was finishing school in Boston and he was in Chicago. 318 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: She wasn't attractive like most of the girls that Holmes 319 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: got involved with, but she did have other virtues. Specifically, 320 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: she was an heiress to a Texas real estate fortune, 321 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: so Many happened to move to Chicago in February of 322 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: pretty much following Holmes. She hadn't heard from him in 323 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: a while, but she was still really in love with him. 324 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: She knew him by a different alias, though, Henry H. Gordon, 325 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: and she called him Harry, so when Holmes found out 326 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: that Many was in town, he immediately called on her 327 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: and started things up again. He asked her to come 328 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: work for him so they could see each other whenever 329 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: they wanted, but he specifically asked that she called him 330 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: Henry Howard Holmes when they were in public, because you know, 331 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: he adopted that name for business purposes, and she didn't 332 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: want her coming in and making anybody suspicious or wonder 333 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: who he really was. So during their courtship, he also 334 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: convinced her to sign over the deed to her Texas property, 335 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: which was her vast heiress's inheritance to someone named Alexander Bond, 336 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: who then in turn signed over the deed to a 337 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: Bent and Tea, a lineman. Holmes convinced many that it 338 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: was a smart business transaction. You know, she'd make more 339 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: money off of it. He would take care of everything, 340 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: I'm sure. And what many didn't know was that Bond, 341 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,919 Speaker 1: the original person she signed it over to, was another 342 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: one of Holmes's aliases, and Lyman was an alias of 343 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: that trusty assistant of Holmes then Pipes All. So essentially 344 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: he had gotten her to give him her fortune, and 345 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 1: he promised many a wedding, and they ended up having 346 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: a small one, just the two of them and a preacher, 347 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 1: and she thought it was all legal, but there's no 348 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: record today of their marriage. Many had been writing throughout 349 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: this entire affair, though, to her sister Anna, just talking 350 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: about how happy she was, and how great Holmes was 351 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: and now handsome, and what a great businessman. And when 352 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: the World's Fair got underway, Holmes invited Anna to visit 353 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: and to come see the fair with them. She came, 354 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: though she had reservations at first, but when she got 355 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: there she just got taken in by holmes charm like 356 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: everyone else, and he promised to take both of the 357 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: women to Europe, and Anna even sent for extra clothes 358 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: and things from home in preparation for her long journey. 359 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: So it seemed too people back home like she was 360 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: really going to be taking the jule. But both Anna 361 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: and Minnie disappeared around that time in the summer of 362 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:04,400 Speaker 1: eight Soon after that, Holmes hired a man named Stephus 363 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: Humphrey to pick up a large trunk and a box 364 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: from his building. The box was long and had dimensions 365 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,199 Speaker 1: somewhere to a coffin, and Holmes had that sent to 366 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 1: the train station where he'd pre arranged to have it 367 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: ship somewhere, and the trunk was sent to Chapel, Oh. So. 368 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: Of course, as we mentioned, there were a lot of 369 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: other people who were never seen again after staying in 370 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: holmes Is building, and they weren't all his employees or 371 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: all these would be fiances or wives. As planned, he 372 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: had turned his building into a world's fara hotel. In 373 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: still most of his guests were women. According to Larson's book, 374 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: when men would come by to enquire about renting a room, 375 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: the place would suddenly be mysteriously full. But when young 376 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: women came by, there were always vacancies. But the strange 377 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: thing about Holmes, and I think maybe we were discussing 378 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: this earlier, it's something that disturbs us, particularly about homes. 379 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: He didn't usually kill people face to face, but he 380 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: liked to be nearby so that he could hear what 381 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: was going on as he killed them. Right, if he 382 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: locked them in his air tight vault, for instance, he 383 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: could just barely hear the sounds. I mean, remember it 384 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,479 Speaker 1: was soundproof, but he could just barely hear someone crying 385 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: or calling out for help. Often, though, he'd just turn 386 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: on one of those gas valves and let someone die 387 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 1: in their sleep in their room, or he'd sneak in 388 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: and knock them out with chloroform. So, not surprisingly, his 389 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: hotel often smelled of gas, or it smelled slightly medicinal. 390 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: That would add to the overall creepy feeling people get 391 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: when they visit this place. Yeah, especially if you're eating 392 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: in the restaurant or something. But I guess maybe people 393 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: chalked being a doctor, or they're being the drug store nearby. 394 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: I'm not sure, although most drug stores don't smell like 395 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: gas or medicine. Of course, though with all of these 396 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: people disappearing, at least some folks were coming and inquiring 397 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: what happened to their kin folk. Most of them were 398 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: family members, including Emily family, who thought that it was 399 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: really strange she had never written them after her sudden 400 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: marriage to this man they'd never heard of. Yeah, I 401 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: think she used to write them very frequently. She was 402 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: a good daughter and very close to her and she 403 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: just went off the map. So they were afraid that 404 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: she had gone to Europe on a honeymoon after her 405 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: wedding and had suddenly died there, and that maybe her 406 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: husband didn't know how to get in touch with them. 407 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: So still not suspecting, really felt play, just hoping that Holmes, 408 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: is their last point of contact, would have some kind 409 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: of information on their daughter. Yeah, although maybe they suspected 410 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: more as time went by. The guardians of Minnie Williams 411 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: were also suspicious, and they hired a lawyer to go 412 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: look for her and protect her estate. So Holmes started 413 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: to feel the pressure, started to feel the heat of 414 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: all these inquiries and from creditors to it turned out 415 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: that pretty much nothing he'd bought for that monstrous building 416 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: was paid for. He had a way to weasel out 417 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 1: of everything. I mean, just some examples. That airtight vault 418 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: that he built. When the company that installed it came 419 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: to collect, he told them, sure, you can have this back. 420 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you say that you need 421 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: it back if they can't pay for it, but you'll 422 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: have to pay for the damages cause to the building 423 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: when you remove it. And the companies that had sold 424 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: him furniture would come to repossess their goods and he'd say, okay, 425 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: go get it, and then they wouldn't be able to 426 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 1: find it in his labyrinth of creepy rooms. He'd have 427 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: it hidden somewhere, and with all these secret staircases, good 428 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: luck actually trying to find your stuff. Eventually, though, a 429 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: lot of people, a lot of the creditors at Holmes 430 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: owed money to got together and they hired a lawyer. 431 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 1: He realized at that point that his days in Chicago 432 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: were numbered, so he set the top floor of his 433 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: building on fire, hoping to collect the insurance money. But 434 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: the policy was in the name of one of his 435 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: aliases here him S Campbell, and so when he filed 436 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: the claim, an investigator got suspicious and started looking into it. 437 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: So Holmes never really got to claim that money because 438 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: if he had gone to claim it, this guy who 439 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: was suspicious of and probably would have busted him. So 440 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: instead he fled to Fort Worth, tex after that to 441 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: take advantage of Mini's land that he had had transferred 442 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: to himself through that roundabout way. He took his new 443 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: girlfriend with him, Georgiana Yoke, and he took his trustee 444 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: assistant Pizel, too, but before leaving he ensured pipe of 445 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: life for ten thousand dollars and maybe the assistant should 446 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: start worrying he will become a victim. At this point, 447 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: Holmes wasn't able to successfully get his hands on Mini's estate, 448 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 1: so they ended up moving on to St. Louis, where 449 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 1: Holmes took over another drug store, and of course he 450 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: tried to pull one of his usual scams, stocking the 451 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: store on credit and then trying to sell it and 452 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: get the new owner to pay for the stock. But 453 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: this time it didn't work. He was arrested for fraud 454 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: and he went to jail for a short time. Before 455 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: he left jail, though, he confided in another criminal there, 456 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: a train robber named Marion Hedgepeth. Holmes asked Hedgepeth for 457 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: the name of a good attorney one that so, in 458 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: other words, a bad attorney, like someone he could trust 459 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: with his shady dealings, and promised to pay hedge Pet 460 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: five dollars for the information the referral fee on the exactly, 461 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: and he told hedge Pet about his plans to fake 462 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: his friend Pizel's death and collect the ten thousand in 463 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: insurance money. So when Holmes got out, he and Piezel 464 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: proceeded with their plan, and Piezel, under an alias, opened 465 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: up his own business for buying and selling patents, and 466 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: the two were planning on faking an accident and then 467 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: using a disfigured cadaver to collect that life insurance money, 468 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: kind of a throwback from his college days, pulling one 469 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: of his old scams. So on September four, a customer 470 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: came by Pizel's business and found the door locked, and 471 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: when he came back with the police later, they broke 472 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: in and found a body that seemed to have gotten 473 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: caught in an explosion inside. They determined that the body 474 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: was B. F. Perry, which was Piezel's alias, and that 475 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: he had died of burns. So after the body went 476 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: unclaimed for a little while and was bare aid, the 477 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: Fidelity Mutual Life Association received a letter that said that 478 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: Perry was actually Pizel, who had been insured by their company, 479 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: and soon after the lawyer Homes had hired with hedge 480 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: Peth's recommendation, visited Philadelphia to try to get the claim. 481 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: So the company paid Holmes, who kept all the money 482 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: and didn't give any to Pizel's widow or several children. 483 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 1: And at first it seemed like he was going to 484 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: get away with us, but he made a fatal mistake. 485 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: He never did give hedge Peth that five dollars he 486 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: promised him, So Hedgepeth got mad and ratted out Homes 487 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: to the insurance company. And after looking into it and 488 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: finding evidence about all of the shady dealings that had 489 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: really happened with the alias and all of that, Fidelity 490 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: called in the Pinkerton Detective Agency, which we have done 491 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: a podcast on them before, and the detective agency tracked 492 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 1: down Homes to Boston. He was arrested on November sev 493 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: and confessed to one count of insurance for all he 494 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: pled guilty to that in the summer of eight. There's 495 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: another creepy catch with this story, though. The thing was 496 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: he kept on changing his own story so much about 497 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: all other aspects of that crime, including what really happened 498 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: to Pizel, because you know, everybody was assuming that he 499 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: had faked they had been in the togather and faked 500 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: Pizel's death. Pizel wasn't anywhere to be found, though, and 501 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: Holmes couldn't answer questions about that. So the authorities ended 502 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: up exhuming the body they had buried as Pizel and 503 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: performed an autopsy on it. They found that the body 504 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: was not some kind of stand in dead body, it 505 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: was Piezel himself, not a random cadaver, and that he 506 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: had been killed not in an explosion but by chloroform. 507 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 1: So now Holmes is facing a murder charge. And there 508 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: was still a question of what happened to Pizel's children, 509 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: who homes have been traveling with for a while after 510 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: the fraud. I mean, this kind of complicates the story 511 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: a little bit. But sometime in between when he had 512 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,639 Speaker 1: pulled off this fraud with Pizel, supposedly with Piezel, but 513 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: now we know it was sort of on Pizel, he 514 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: was traveling around with three of Pizel's children. So Holmes 515 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: ha told the authorities that Minnie Williams had taken the 516 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: children to London our Texas era, right, But a Philadelphia 517 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: detective named Frank Geyer he didn't buy this. He lost 518 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,959 Speaker 1: his own wife and children not long before, and so 519 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: he was really motivated to find these kids. He launched 520 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: this drawn out investigation in which he traveled to all 521 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: the cities that Holmes had been to recently, kind of 522 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: tracked his male path, and it took a couple of months, 523 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: but he finally found these kids. Unfortunately, they want alive though. 524 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: He found the bodies of the two girls, Nellie and Alice, 525 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: in Toronto, and he found the charred remains of Pizel's 526 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: son Howard in a kitchen stove in Indianapolis. The search 527 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: for the kids is actually really fascinating part of home story. 528 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: I thought, I wish we could spend more time on 529 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: it now in this story, but it's uh. Laursen goes 530 00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: into it a lot in the book, so if you 531 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: pick that up, will get to learn for the murder 532 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: Castle and that phase of his career. But yeah, this 533 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: hunt for the children was an interesting kind of conclusion 534 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: to it all. And is it just reveals more I 535 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: guess about holmes character and how synistry was when he 536 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: was doing these awful crimes, and the fact that his 537 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: serial killer profile just would change so dramatically, going from 538 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: luring people in and dispatching them in a very hands 539 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: off kind of way to murdering these kids for no reason, 540 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: no money. Very strange. With Holmes suspected of quite a 541 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: few murders by now, though, the Chicago Police decided to 542 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: search that abandoned castle in Inglewood, and what they found was, 543 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: of course horrifying human remains and stoves and fireplaces and 544 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: chimneys throughout the building, a lot of horrible stuff in 545 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: the basement, yeah, bloody dissecting tables, surgical instruments, that kiln 546 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: that we mentioned which still contained bone fragments. They also 547 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: find found quick line pits beneath the floors, as well 548 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: as a vat of corrosive acid and the bones of 549 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: a small child which might have been Pearl Connor. And 550 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: the vault somehow had an impression of a woman's footprint 551 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: on the inside of the door, which authorities believed to 552 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: belong to in the line. So it's clear now why 553 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: this is known as the murder Castle. But they weren't able. 554 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: The police weren't able to conduct a more thorough investigation 555 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: because in August eighteen, a mysterious fire destroyed the castle 556 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: and the rest of the evidence inside. And that's partly 557 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: why will never know exactly how many people homes killed. 558 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: Some estimates put the numbers low. Well it's still a lot, 559 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: but at some put it at as high as two people. 560 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: Holmes went on trial for Pitzel's murder in October. It 561 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: was called one of the trials of the century, but 562 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: it only lasted for about six days. The jury returned 563 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: a verdict in a couple of hours, though according to 564 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: Joneses History magazine article which you mentioned in the previous podcast, 565 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: the jurors said it really only took them a minute 566 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: to make their decision, but they just stayed out longer 567 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: for appearance's stake. Holmes was hanged May seven, eight six, 568 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: but not before he changed his story a number of times. 569 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: I mean, he said that he didn't kill a lot 570 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: of people, and then he said he killed people that 571 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: they later went and found out we're still alive. And 572 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: it was very confusing. He just kept changing what had happened, 573 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: and he wrote his memoir while he was imprisoned to 574 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: get sympathy, and he also sold the rights to his 575 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: final confession to William Randolph Hurst for seven thousand, five 576 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: hundred dollars, And in that confession he said that he 577 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: killed twenty seven people. Didn't you wonder who ended up 578 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: with that money eventually too? I mean, he must have 579 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: a math quite a fortune with his gams and his 580 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,479 Speaker 1: ability to never pay his tab anywhere. But I don't know. 581 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: Maybe some of you guys could let us know if 582 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: you have an answer to that. Towards the end, though 583 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: Holmes wrote quote, I was born with the devil in me. 584 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: I could not help the fact that I was a murderer, 585 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: no more than the poet can help the inspiration to song, 586 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: nor the ambition of an intellectual man to be great. 587 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: Another kind of interesting point, he was so afraid of 588 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,160 Speaker 1: people taking his body after he died, Even he had 589 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: done so much to other people's bodies, he was so 590 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: afraid of his own being taken and having stuff done 591 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: to it. He had concrete poured into his coffin and 592 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: also over his coffin in his grave so that people 593 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: couldn't steal his body. And then, of course with a 594 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: story this chaotic. There's also a curse involved, a possible curse. 595 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: We haven't had a curse since the Ice Man. Actually 596 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: that's it's yeah, So lots of weird stuff happened to 597 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: people involved with the case after holmes death. Guyer became ill, 598 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: the jury foreman on his case was electrocuted, the priest 599 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: who had given Holmes his last rites died suddenly, and 600 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: an office of an insurance company that Homes had cheated 601 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: caught on fire. So the Curse of H. H. Holmes. Yeah, 602 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: you guys decide what you think about that. It's certainly 603 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: a scary story though. These ethereal killer tales always creep 604 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: me out a lot. But I know, listeners do you 605 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: like them? A lot? Listeners like them? It's to be 606 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: kind of split. I mean, we sort of did a 607 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,720 Speaker 1: little informal poll around the office here at how stuff works, 608 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: and you know, we found that some people are really 609 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: into real killer stories and really like researching them. And 610 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: I think Sarah and I both fall on the opposite camp, 611 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: were not as much interested in serial killers. But you know, 612 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: it's always fun to reach an interesting story. So it 613 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: just makes me really in a fascinating story. Yes, I 614 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: think that's probably a good time for us to transition 615 00:33:53,480 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: away from serial killers and into listener mail. So we're 616 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: not going to transition too far after all. Because our 617 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: postcard that we're featuring today does still have a skeleton 618 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: on it, although it's kind of in a can't be 619 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: funny way. It's from Marie. She sent it as a 620 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: holiday card. Um, and just to give you guys a description, 621 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: it is a skeleton holding a crystal ball and it 622 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: says Alexander Crystal Seer sees your life from the cradle 623 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: to the grave. However, Marie has kindly painted over the 624 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: grave scene in the in the crystal ball and put 625 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: a Christmas tree with a shining rhyme stone on top, 626 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: so um holiday cleaning things up a little bit. Thank you, Marie. 627 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,439 Speaker 1: And uh, if any of you guys want to send 628 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 1: us an email, we have changed our address again. We're 629 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: now at History Podcasts at Discovery dot com and that 630 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: should make our mail delivery a little more reliable than 631 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: it's been the past. It's been spot in the last 632 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: month that we haven't replied to you. That's why. But 633 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: also maybe don't pre send everything or we'll never be 634 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: able to catch up. That's true too again, though, Facebook 635 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: and Twitter at Myston History are always great ways to 636 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: reach us as well, and if you want to learn 637 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 1: a little bit more about our somewhat scary topic today, 638 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: we have an article called how serial Killers Work, and 639 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 1: you can find that by visiting our homepage at www 640 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: dot how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check 641 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future, Join 642 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: House to Work staff as we explore the most promising 643 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow. The hou Stuff Works iPhone 644 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: up has a ride. Download it today on iTunes.