WEBVTT - Patriots Catch-22 1/8: Moving On From Mayo, Coaching Candidates, NFL Draft Talk 0:00:30.618 --> 0:00:34.657 Patriots Unfiltered the world's original podcast. Patriots Unfiltered brings you 0:00:34.698 --> 0:00:38.818 inside Jillette Stadium for rousing conversations on everything New England, Patriots, 0:00:38.857 --> 0:00:42.658 and NFL. Join host Fred Kersh alongside Patriots dot COM's 0:00:42.658 --> 0:00:46.098 Paul Parillo, Mike Desso, Evan Lazar, Tamara Brown, and Alex 0:00:46.138 --> 0:00:48.898 Francisco as they bring you in depth coverage of the team. 0:00:48.977 --> 0:00:51.098 He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's 0:00:51.138 --> 0:00:53.978 really that's his rookie season essentially too, So now we're 0:00:53.978 --> 0:00:55.978 really not talking about them, really knowing. 0:00:57.778 --> 0:01:05.657 Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts. This 0:01:05.777 --> 0:01:09.098 is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar 0:01:09.178 --> 0:01:12.137 and Alex bar'lar. 0:01:11.578 --> 0:01:14.298 Blazar from Lazar, Hello, everybody nailed it. He joined as 0:01:14.337 --> 0:01:20.898 always by our Bara Risk. Here is Evan Lazar and 0:01:20.937 --> 0:01:22.938 Alex barrs. So we do have a little bit of 0:01:23.018 --> 0:01:26.417 draft news. Okay, Jalen Milroe has officially declared. Jeez, so 0:01:26.418 --> 0:01:28.898 there's another quarterback on the board. I might have gone 0:01:28.937 --> 0:01:31.658 back if I were him after that game this week, 0:01:31.777 --> 0:01:34.258 but Evan wanted Alabama in the playoffs, so maybe he 0:01:34.298 --> 0:01:36.618 feels differently but I still feel the same way. I 0:01:36.618 --> 0:01:40.338 still would have taken out. They got a housed by Michigan. Michigan. 0:01:40.498 --> 0:01:44.057 They didn't Vanderbilts, theydn't care about the game, cared enough 0:01:44.098 --> 0:01:46.658 to play everybody. Michigan didn't. Michigan played their backups. They 0:01:46.658 --> 0:01:50.298 weren't trying ja trying to. I was going to the draft. 0:01:50.338 --> 0:01:55.018 Just to just to poke them, just to poke them. 0:01:55.178 --> 0:01:57.138 That is what we do on here and and today 0:01:57.258 --> 0:01:58.978 is gonna be a real pos. 0:01:58.938 --> 0:02:01.058 This, This might be an all timer. This is gonna 0:02:01.058 --> 0:02:04.658 be bun because this and I do want to. 0:02:05.338 --> 0:02:07.458 I wanted to start something else, but just really quickly, 0:02:08.377 --> 0:02:12.178 this is you were and I philosophy. 0:02:12.418 --> 0:02:15.498 Oh hold on, you want some uh breaking news here 0:02:15.498 --> 0:02:18.618 from Tom PELLISERA Okay, what is it? Multiple NFL teams 0:02:18.658 --> 0:02:21.377 have inquired about whether legendary head coach Bill Belichick would 0:02:21.377 --> 0:02:24.697 reconsider his move to college football, including the Raiders, whose 0:02:24.738 --> 0:02:28.097 new minority owner Tom Brady spoke recently with his old coach. 0:02:28.138 --> 0:02:31.657 Per league sources, that's that's what you interrupted my dad 0:02:31.938 --> 0:02:36.258 for Brady and Belichick. Cool, Sorry, all right, anyways, the. 0:02:38.338 --> 0:02:43.537 This is a our two philosophies just on football in general. 0:02:44.018 --> 0:02:46.537 This is colliding right here, right. 0:02:46.698 --> 0:02:52.338 This is the the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, my Matt 0:02:52.418 --> 0:02:58.218 Lafleur tight pants crew against a football guy. And this 0:02:58.338 --> 0:03:02.498 is a catch twenty two, perfect dream scenario. If this 0:03:02.618 --> 0:03:05.817 had to happen, these two guys been the top candidates. 0:03:06.097 --> 0:03:09.618 Mike Rabel and Ben Johnson are the perfect top two 0:03:09.657 --> 0:03:12.978 candidates for our philosophies. And how we differ in some 0:03:13.097 --> 0:03:15.058 opinions here so's it's gonna be a doozy. 0:03:15.258 --> 0:03:17.698 But look, we've talked about this stuff a lot in 0:03:17.738 --> 0:03:21.218 the abstract in the what three years now we've been 0:03:21.218 --> 0:03:25.018 doing this show, seven years we've been working together. We've 0:03:25.018 --> 0:03:27.058 talked a lot about this stuff in the abstract. We've 0:03:27.097 --> 0:03:31.898 never talked about it with such immediacy as it relates 0:03:31.938 --> 0:03:32.578 to the Patriots. 0:03:32.578 --> 0:03:34.458 Oh yeah, I mean this is this is the decision 0:03:34.538 --> 0:03:36.978 right now. Yeah, And then immediacy is a good word. 0:03:37.018 --> 0:03:40.058 And I would just say, also, this is a major, 0:03:40.178 --> 0:03:43.458 major decision for the direction of the franchise in which 0:03:43.458 --> 0:03:46.498 way they want to take this thing. And the good 0:03:46.538 --> 0:03:50.098 news is is that both guys there's no wrong answer 0:03:50.498 --> 0:03:53.618 between Rabel and Ben Johnson. In my opinion, I think 0:03:53.658 --> 0:03:54.698 we both feel this way. 0:03:55.578 --> 0:03:57.938 They're one A and one B. We just might have 0:03:58.058 --> 0:04:00.978 that in a slightly different owner. I can't stress this 0:04:01.138 --> 0:04:03.338 enough because we're gonna say this, then we're gonna spend 0:04:03.378 --> 0:04:06.178 the next two hours riffing apart the other person's candidate, right, 0:04:07.618 --> 0:04:12.018 I think either way? Can I can I start this 0:04:12.098 --> 0:04:17.298 yere like it really comes? They both have unknowns. Neither 0:04:17.337 --> 0:04:19.498 one is a perfect slam dunk Homer and candidate. I 0:04:19.498 --> 0:04:21.938 don't think there is one. Yeah, Honestly, the closest thing 0:04:22.018 --> 0:04:23.938 might have been Brian Davalden. He's going back to the giants. 0:04:25.698 --> 0:04:29.017 There is. So they both have their what IFFs, which 0:04:29.058 --> 0:04:31.737 we'll discuss over the next two hours. It basically comes 0:04:31.778 --> 0:04:36.138 down to which ifs would you rather deal with? What 0:04:36.258 --> 0:04:40.538 questions do you think are more answerable between these two guys. 0:04:40.778 --> 0:04:42.698 What do you feel better about having as kind of 0:04:42.698 --> 0:04:45.778 an unknown going into the twenty twenty five season and beyond. 0:04:46.097 --> 0:04:49.337 So I'm with you. If they hire Rabel great, If 0:04:49.378 --> 0:04:52.538 they hire Ben Johnson great, I don't really want. I mean, 0:04:52.618 --> 0:04:56.217 Flores is an interesting one to me too, agreed. Outside 0:04:56.217 --> 0:04:58.418 of those three guys, now that day balls back in 0:04:58.457 --> 0:05:00.818 New York, I don't know that I have a ton 0:05:00.857 --> 0:05:04.258 of interest in anybody available besides that. Frankly, yeah, I 0:05:04.298 --> 0:05:06.418 think any of those three guys would be good options. 0:05:06.418 --> 0:05:09.738 There is that a couple things. With Flores, you have 0:05:09.818 --> 0:05:11.977 to wait first and foremost, right, a couple of weeks. 0:05:11.977 --> 0:05:14.738 So Robert Kraft has talked about they want to go fast. 0:05:14.818 --> 0:05:19.297 Their actions have reflected that, and that may be. That's 0:05:19.337 --> 0:05:22.818 probably a factor. But between Johnson and Rabel and Flores, 0:05:23.698 --> 0:05:25.218 any of them would be a good higher Yeah. 0:05:25.337 --> 0:05:28.498 Okay, so that says the table. Obviously, we're gonna be 0:05:28.538 --> 0:05:30.137 talking a lot about this. I do have a thought 0:05:30.618 --> 0:05:33.218 on Drawd Mayo in the fallout of this situation with 0:05:33.298 --> 0:05:35.098 Girod Mayo. I don't want to spend a ton of 0:05:35.138 --> 0:05:36.818 time on that, but we haven't been on the air 0:05:36.898 --> 0:05:39.937 since the news of his firing was announced, so I 0:05:39.977 --> 0:05:41.858 do have a thought on that. And then we're going 0:05:41.938 --> 0:05:44.498 to get into the coaching candidates and really peel this back. 0:05:44.538 --> 0:05:46.818 But hey, Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota 0:05:47.337 --> 0:05:51.378 and down from no best job Milton Okay, I did 0:05:51.418 --> 0:05:54.178 have Joe Milton on the agenda. Okay, all right, second hour, 0:05:54.378 --> 0:05:57.537 when we have some time. I do have some Joe 0:05:57.538 --> 0:05:59.738 Milton thoughts, as I'm sure you do too. If you 0:05:59.737 --> 0:06:02.057 want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen 0:06:02.097 --> 0:06:04.378 on TV, go to buy a Toyota dot com. It's 0:06:04.418 --> 0:06:07.498 Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle of 0:06:07.538 --> 0:06:10.538 the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's go places and easy 0:06:10.538 --> 0:06:12.818 to drink, easy to enjoy, but like the official beer 0:06:12.857 --> 0:06:15.777 sponsor of the New England Patriots. So I want to 0:06:15.898 --> 0:06:18.698 go backwards first before we go forward and talk a 0:06:18.698 --> 0:06:22.417 little bit about Jirod Mayo and the situation that led 0:06:22.457 --> 0:06:24.777 to his firing and all that kind of stuff. I 0:06:24.818 --> 0:06:26.258 know there's going to be a lot of stuff out 0:06:26.298 --> 0:06:29.378 there now. Chad Graff had one in the Athletic this morning, 0:06:30.178 --> 0:06:32.618 you know, those pieces that shed light on how things 0:06:32.658 --> 0:06:35.338 were behind the scenes. I think the biggest thing to 0:06:35.378 --> 0:06:40.017 me with Girod Mayo not being ready for this position 0:06:41.058 --> 0:06:45.977 is that and he told us this point blank, just publicly. 0:06:46.298 --> 0:06:46.618 He said. 0:06:46.737 --> 0:06:49.138 Remember he used the line that I'm drinking from a 0:06:49.138 --> 0:06:53.977 fire hose right now. So that was January February, Combine time, 0:06:54.577 --> 0:06:58.017 right around their owners meetings, And when he said that, 0:06:59.337 --> 0:07:02.497 I believe that Girard Mayo had a lot of ideas 0:07:02.498 --> 0:07:04.258 and he actually mentioned this, I think, to one of 0:07:04.298 --> 0:07:07.978 the broadcasts, one of the CBS or Fox or whatever, 0:07:08.058 --> 0:07:10.578 one of those broadcasts. I believe that he had a 0:07:10.578 --> 0:07:14.057 lot of ideas for what he wanted to implement in 0:07:14.098 --> 0:07:17.378 a football program. And then he got the job and 0:07:17.458 --> 0:07:20.978 he realized how much the job entailed, and how they 0:07:20.977 --> 0:07:22.778 had to build a staff, and how they had to 0:07:22.818 --> 0:07:24.858 catch up on the off season with free agency in 0:07:24.898 --> 0:07:27.498 the draft and all these different types of things and 0:07:27.618 --> 0:07:31.218 a lot of that stuff. He wasn't a to come 0:07:31.258 --> 0:07:33.698 to fruition as fast as I think, what is what 0:07:33.737 --> 0:07:36.138 the crafts had hoped and this is just my opinion, 0:07:36.258 --> 0:07:39.058 but as fast as they had hoped that it would, 0:07:39.737 --> 0:07:44.018 and it just didn't ever feel like he had control 0:07:44.378 --> 0:07:47.338 of the position, like he had control of the situation 0:07:47.938 --> 0:07:50.738 of the position, of all the things that went into 0:07:50.778 --> 0:07:53.297 the position. And just as we move forward, because I 0:07:53.298 --> 0:07:56.498 think now the more important story is moving forward, but 0:07:56.618 --> 0:07:59.057 as we move forward here with the Patriots, the one 0:07:59.098 --> 0:08:02.338 thing that I really feel strongly about that needs to 0:08:02.378 --> 0:08:05.578 be done is whoever is going to come in next, 0:08:05.618 --> 0:08:08.898 whether it's Rabel, Ben Johnson, Brian Flores, whoever, whoever is 0:08:08.938 --> 0:08:12.378 going to come in next needs to rebuild the infrastructure 0:08:13.018 --> 0:08:16.818 of the football program. And I'm not necessarily just talking 0:08:16.818 --> 0:08:19.937 about like locker room culture. That's part of it, but 0:08:20.018 --> 0:08:24.818 I'm also just talking about how they handle things from 0:08:24.818 --> 0:08:28.698 a front office perspective, from a coaching staff perspective, like 0:08:28.737 --> 0:08:30.658 you have to get the right coaches in here. You 0:08:30.698 --> 0:08:33.978 have to get good coaches in here on all levels, 0:08:34.058 --> 0:08:37.738 not just a coordinator level, but position coach level. And 0:08:37.778 --> 0:08:40.098 I would also say that they have to get on 0:08:40.178 --> 0:08:43.137 the front office side. They have to build a modern 0:08:43.218 --> 0:08:44.978 front office. And I hate using the word modern, but 0:08:44.977 --> 0:08:46.378 it's the only word I can really think of to 0:08:46.418 --> 0:08:51.138 describe it. They have to get a modern front office 0:08:51.298 --> 0:08:54.698 that is properly staffed, that is heading in the right 0:08:54.737 --> 0:08:57.818 direction in terms of innovation and how teams are evaluating 0:08:57.857 --> 0:09:02.058 and scouting, especially in the draft. And I'm not talking 0:09:02.058 --> 0:09:05.258 about win probability models and I'm not talking about fourth 0:09:05.338 --> 0:09:09.538 down decisions. But they are behind the curve, and we 0:09:09.658 --> 0:09:12.498 know this that they're behind the curve when it comes 0:09:12.497 --> 0:09:15.098 to analytics and a lot of the different things that 0:09:15.137 --> 0:09:19.058 they use now a day's teams like the Chiefs, the Bills, 0:09:19.298 --> 0:09:24.498 the Eagles, the Lions, like these teams are all using Minnesota. 0:09:24.658 --> 0:09:30.458 They're using heavy amounts of in game tracking data analytics. 0:09:30.497 --> 0:09:34.098 I'm not talking about win probability models and fourth down 0:09:34.098 --> 0:09:34.737 decision making. 0:09:34.938 --> 0:09:37.298 Are you just like switch, Why are you making that 0:09:37.418 --> 0:09:40.538 hard for me? No? But that's everything I was gonna 0:09:40.538 --> 0:09:42.537 come in and say, but this is really we're just 0:09:42.578 --> 0:09:44.537 gonna talk about tight kaki pants and putting. 0:09:44.218 --> 0:09:48.418 In we will, but this, this type of stuff is 0:09:48.497 --> 0:09:53.218 important and whoever the candidate is needs to have a direction. 0:09:53.338 --> 0:09:55.977 And I believe when they made the higher for girod 0:09:56.058 --> 0:09:59.458 Mayo and they made that decision, they thought that girod 0:09:59.497 --> 0:10:01.898 Mayo is going to be more prepared and have more 0:10:02.017 --> 0:10:05.098 ideas for that side of things. And this has to 0:10:05.137 --> 0:10:08.178 be brick by brick literally with the practice facility being 0:10:08.218 --> 0:10:10.857 built as we speak, this has to be brick by 0:10:10.938 --> 0:10:14.857 brick for this organization because if you don't start practicing 0:10:14.938 --> 0:10:19.218 and uh, you know, preparing the right way, and again 0:10:19.298 --> 0:10:23.338 not just about literal practice, like also you know, preparing 0:10:23.377 --> 0:10:26.258 for the draft, preparing for free agency and doing those 0:10:26.298 --> 0:10:28.778 things the right way. Again, this is not going to 0:10:28.778 --> 0:10:32.338 get turned around just because you have a hard bleep 0:10:32.418 --> 0:10:36.618 coach versus a player's coach, right or you have a 0:10:36.737 --> 0:10:39.617 Rabel or Ben Johnson. They have to turn this around 0:10:39.658 --> 0:10:42.218 from the ground up. And I definitely think that this 0:10:42.338 --> 0:10:45.938 football program was run by one person for so long 0:10:46.178 --> 0:10:49.018 who could wear so many different hats and was so 0:10:49.218 --> 0:10:52.298 talented at wearing those many hats that when he left, 0:10:52.298 --> 0:10:56.017 When Bill Belichick left, there was just a lot of 0:10:56.137 --> 0:10:59.497 things to fill that just didn't get filled quick enough. 0:10:59.857 --> 0:11:01.698 It's a hell of a take by you. Good job 0:11:02.298 --> 0:11:05.657 you like you're gonna hear he use the word program 0:11:05.737 --> 0:11:08.417 a lot today. Build a program, maintain a program, to 0:11:08.497 --> 0:11:11.658 stay a program. And that's what that means. It is 0:11:11.698 --> 0:11:14.178 more than culture, Like you want to get to a 0:11:14.257 --> 0:11:16.938 point and this is way down the road, this is 0:11:16.977 --> 0:11:19.138 gonna happen in your one but you lay the foundation 0:11:19.218 --> 0:11:21.298 for it. And here when you want to get to 0:11:21.338 --> 0:11:24.298 the point where it's a well oiled machine and it 0:11:24.418 --> 0:11:27.418 kind of becomes self feeding right where. And this is 0:11:27.458 --> 0:11:32.137 what Bill, more than anything else are as coach and GM. 0:11:32.218 --> 0:11:35.537 He built a program. There was a routine, there were 0:11:35.617 --> 0:11:40.778 core philosophies. Uh, there were pipelines, like everything was not 0:11:40.857 --> 0:11:43.378 redund Yeah, redundant is the redundant in the word in 0:11:43.418 --> 0:11:47.857 the sense that like if I'm trying to think of 0:11:47.898 --> 0:11:50.018 an example of this, like there were there were fallback plans. 0:11:50.017 --> 0:11:54.058 If a failed, you would be right there. Everything was streamlined. 0:11:54.098 --> 0:11:57.098 That that's building a program. What are we looking for 0:11:57.218 --> 0:11:59.818 in terms of the type of people we want? What 0:11:59.857 --> 0:12:01.578 are we looking for in the types of players that 0:12:01.617 --> 0:12:03.698 we want? What do we value? What are we putting 0:12:03.737 --> 0:12:06.938 an emphasis on? It felt like under drawd Mayo that 0:12:07.017 --> 0:12:09.618 kind of kept changing based on what the week was 0:12:09.698 --> 0:12:12.218 and what what the narrative was around the team. There 0:12:12.298 --> 0:12:14.578 was never a program in place. There was never the 0:12:14.617 --> 0:12:17.857 foundation of a program in place. So you want and 0:12:17.938 --> 0:12:20.298 it's gonna start from the coach. I know Elliott Wolf 0:12:20.418 --> 0:12:23.058 is still here. Will he be here long term? Will 0:12:23.058 --> 0:12:24.777 he still have final set? I want to get into 0:12:24.818 --> 0:12:27.178 the final say thing, because I think that's important. But 0:12:27.538 --> 0:12:29.258 this is gonna start with the coach, as it does 0:12:29.298 --> 0:12:32.137 most places. You need a coach who can come in 0:12:32.778 --> 0:12:36.738 and establish and start building that program. That to me, 0:12:37.418 --> 0:12:39.177 I know people will say, Drake may is the most 0:12:39.178 --> 0:12:41.338 important thing. You gotta do, it's best for him. I 0:12:41.338 --> 0:12:43.698 think what's best for Drake May more than getting him 0:12:43.698 --> 0:12:47.098 into bells and whistles. Offense is having a program around 0:12:47.178 --> 0:12:50.297 him that is functional and will elevate not just him 0:12:50.298 --> 0:12:52.858 but everybody in the organization. So when I look at 0:12:52.898 --> 0:12:55.578 who should the next head coach be, who do I 0:12:55.617 --> 0:12:59.138 trust to come in and establish that program and get 0:12:59.178 --> 0:13:02.058 that program off and running. Yeah, and I understand that 0:13:02.178 --> 0:13:04.857 side of it. Now. The other side of it is, 0:13:04.898 --> 0:13:07.338 of course the football, and this is all football. But 0:13:07.538 --> 0:13:09.737 this feeds the No, this feeds the football. 0:13:09.338 --> 0:13:12.858 Right, This feeds the football, and the right football people 0:13:12.938 --> 0:13:15.138 need to be back in charge of football. Yes, right, 0:13:15.178 --> 0:13:16.977 And so that's a big thing too, I think with 0:13:17.497 --> 0:13:19.417 the Patriots, So I guess the Patriots as well. 0:13:19.578 --> 0:13:21.698 What I would say is like, the stronger your program 0:13:22.178 --> 0:13:24.257 day to day, week to week, month to month, year 0:13:24.257 --> 0:13:27.537 to year, the easier your life is on Sundays. Yeah. 0:13:27.617 --> 0:13:33.058 So this isn't a corporate Oh, you know, organizational structuring 0:13:33.178 --> 0:13:36.098 and you know flow char build, But no, it's like, 0:13:36.098 --> 0:13:38.578 like you said, all right, what is are how are 0:13:38.578 --> 0:13:40.578 we going to attack each week? In terms of meetings, 0:13:40.617 --> 0:13:43.058 in terms of practices, in terms of this what kinds 0:13:43.058 --> 0:13:45.898 of players do we what? Not figuring out getting to 0:13:45.938 --> 0:13:47.858 camp and suddenly realizing all right, we have four like 0:13:47.898 --> 0:13:49.898 half options at left tackle. What are we gonna do? 0:13:49.977 --> 0:13:51.978 It's this is what we want on a left tackle. 0:13:52.218 --> 0:13:54.137 These are the guys who are gonna fill it, who 0:13:54.178 --> 0:13:56.778 could fill it? This is Plan A, Plan B, Plan 0:13:56.898 --> 0:13:59.737 C to attain these players. Right, That's what I mean 0:13:59.737 --> 0:14:03.578 by program. It's this isn't corporate speak. This is how 0:14:03.578 --> 0:14:11.178 are you operating Monday to Saturday, January to July. So 0:14:11.257 --> 0:14:13.497 when you get to the actual football of it, you 0:14:13.497 --> 0:14:15.618 can just hit the ground and do the football. That's 0:14:15.617 --> 0:14:17.858 what I mean by program. And then that bleeds over 0:14:17.898 --> 0:14:19.978 to to how are the practice? It's how are you 0:14:19.978 --> 0:14:22.658 operating Monday to Saturday to get to Sunday? Right, that 0:14:22.778 --> 0:14:25.618 sort of thing. That's what a program is. It's more 0:14:25.698 --> 0:14:28.418 used in college, but it's this concept applies to the 0:14:28.498 --> 0:14:30.818 NFL too. That is just what are the core forul's, 0:14:30.858 --> 0:14:33.258 What are the core beliefs, What are the cornerstones of 0:14:33.298 --> 0:14:34.818 the organization you're trying to build? 0:14:34.938 --> 0:14:39.178 Yeah, exactly, And it's getting more popular. I would say 0:14:39.178 --> 0:14:41.658 in the league now that this is a bigger deal 0:14:42.178 --> 0:14:45.778 than the x's and o's and getting somebody that's great 0:14:45.778 --> 0:14:48.778 at the x's and o's because you see the success 0:14:48.978 --> 0:14:52.618 of Dan Campbell, You see the success of Jim Harbaugh 0:14:52.778 --> 0:14:55.778 program in year one with the Chargers. You see the 0:14:55.858 --> 0:14:59.618 success of some of these coaches that aren't specialists on 0:14:59.698 --> 0:15:02.698 one side of the ball. Now at that being said, well, 0:15:02.738 --> 0:15:03.658 you can be. 0:15:03.618 --> 0:15:05.298 A specialist on one side of the ball and still 0:15:05.298 --> 0:15:09.498 be a program builder, Like it's early in Minnesota. Well no, 0:15:09.578 --> 0:15:12.338 but I would say Kevin O'Connor, it's early. So let's 0:15:12.338 --> 0:15:14.698 see what that program. So part of the program thing 0:15:14.778 --> 0:15:16.298 is like. And this is where I go back to Bill. 0:15:16.458 --> 0:15:18.618 We'll get into this more about the coordinators. Right. Yeah, 0:15:18.658 --> 0:15:22.418 So I really like the program that they've built Minnesota. 0:15:22.618 --> 0:15:24.978 Part of that is the defense is great. Yeah, it's 0:15:25.018 --> 0:15:26.698 an out and O'Connell's done a great job at the 0:15:26.698 --> 0:15:28.578 offense and all that justin Jefferson, but it's one of 0:15:28.578 --> 0:15:30.818 the best defenses in the league under a donald they 0:15:30.858 --> 0:15:33.058 have been with an offensive coach. Big part of that 0:15:33.138 --> 0:15:35.938 is Brian Flores. Let's see what it is, right, So 0:15:36.458 --> 0:15:39.298 do you have instead of having to go out and 0:15:39.378 --> 0:15:42.258 scramble and get a defensive coordinator from outside to us 0:15:42.298 --> 0:15:44.098 to learn all the ins and outs and is going 0:15:44.178 --> 0:15:46.378 to make changes and potentially get the reset button and 0:15:46.418 --> 0:15:50.618 things like that. Did your program produce a pipeline as 0:15:50.658 --> 0:15:52.738 they did here for years and years and years, from 0:15:53.698 --> 0:15:59.058 Romeo Curnell to Genie to Dean pis Is in there, 0:15:59.778 --> 0:16:02.578 Patricia Flores Right on the offensive, one's easier to due. 0:16:02.578 --> 0:16:04.418 I don't why I did the defense, but because it's 0:16:04.658 --> 0:16:08.418 there was more stops. Honestly, that's true. But like, let's 0:16:08.418 --> 0:16:13.538 see if if Kevin O'Connell's program has produced a pipeline 0:16:13.858 --> 0:16:17.018 on the defense where Floora's out, next guy's in, boom, seamless. 0:16:17.218 --> 0:16:19.498 So I agree with you that Minnesota is a good 0:16:19.618 --> 0:16:24.938 example of that. Now we have to mention that with Minnesota, 0:16:25.018 --> 0:16:28.018 Quezi is a big, big part of that. Their general manager. 0:16:28.298 --> 0:16:29.778 I'm not going to try to pronounce his last night 0:16:29.818 --> 0:16:31.338 because IM going to, but so I'm just gonna call 0:16:31.378 --> 0:16:34.258 him Quezi. He is a major, major part of that, 0:16:34.338 --> 0:16:37.978 on the personnel side of building this program, right, And 0:16:38.178 --> 0:16:40.938 Quezi is an analytics guy and he's. 0:16:40.618 --> 0:16:42.458 Also a full a football guy. 0:16:42.458 --> 0:16:44.898 But he's you know, he's got his hand in both buckets, 0:16:45.218 --> 0:16:47.458 which is becoming a lot more popular from that side 0:16:47.498 --> 0:16:49.618 of things. Now, with all that being said, when we 0:16:49.778 --> 0:16:53.978 start to unpack these two candidates, Rabel and Ben Johnson. 0:16:54.018 --> 0:16:56.218 And I do want to put this out there that 0:16:56.578 --> 0:17:00.578 my personal belief is that this is Mike Rabel's job, 0:17:00.618 --> 0:17:03.738 if Mike Rabel wants the job. I do not necessarily 0:17:03.778 --> 0:17:09.177 believe that this is a full fledged open process. 0:17:09.698 --> 0:17:10.738 I think that there's. 0:17:10.698 --> 0:17:16.338 A strong indication that Rabel is the guy. If he 0:17:16.418 --> 0:17:20.018 comes in here on Thursday tomorrow and says I want 0:17:20.058 --> 0:17:22.938 the job, we want you, we could this could move. 0:17:23.178 --> 0:17:26.058 His job to lose basically. And look, maybe Ben Johnson 0:17:26.098 --> 0:17:28.738 blows them away, maybe they're underwhelmed by Mike Rabel's pitch. 0:17:28.818 --> 0:17:31.217 But I think as things stay and right now, like 0:17:31.258 --> 0:17:32.898 he's the he's the leader in the clubhouse. 0:17:32.978 --> 0:17:34.737 Yes, And I think that there's a there's a school 0:17:34.818 --> 0:17:39.818 that says Ben Johnson has been the number one offensive 0:17:39.858 --> 0:17:43.818 minded Guru candidate for two cycles in a row, So 0:17:43.858 --> 0:17:45.738 we at least need to hear this guy out right, 0:17:45.778 --> 0:17:48.018 you know, as they should they should to hear him out. 0:17:48.498 --> 0:17:51.818 I am not and it's not me carrying any water. 0:17:52.338 --> 0:17:56.538 I am just not that upset that they're not gonna 0:17:56.578 --> 0:18:00.098 do some search that includes fifteen different candidates, Like, I'm 0:18:00.098 --> 0:18:01.098 not that upset about it. 0:18:01.178 --> 0:18:01.378 Now. 0:18:01.578 --> 0:18:03.698 Do I think that the Pep Hamilton in the in 0:18:03.738 --> 0:18:06.098 the Byron left which of it all was a little bit, Yes, 0:18:06.458 --> 0:18:09.338 But I am not upset that they're not calling in, 0:18:09.858 --> 0:18:13.938 you know, Mike Kafka and Todd Monkin and uh Drew 0:18:14.018 --> 0:18:17.098 Petsing and you know all these other names that are 0:18:17.138 --> 0:18:20.818 being floated around because I Aaron Glenn, you know, I'm 0:18:20.818 --> 0:18:21.218 with you. 0:18:21.338 --> 0:18:24.018 I think it's Rabel, Johnson. 0:18:23.738 --> 0:18:25.898 Flores are the only three guys that I really have 0:18:25.938 --> 0:18:28.538 a ton of interest in, and all these other guys like, yeah, 0:18:28.538 --> 0:18:31.898 it's always great to hear a differing ideas in different perspectives. 0:18:32.098 --> 0:18:33.698 But if we're gonna be real and we're gonna be 0:18:33.738 --> 0:18:37.298 serious about who's truly a candidate for this job, it's 0:18:37.338 --> 0:18:37.978 those three men. 0:18:38.058 --> 0:18:39.818 If they want to move fast, like they say, they do, 0:18:39.938 --> 0:18:42.938 talk to the real options, the real options, and by 0:18:42.938 --> 0:18:44.818 all reports, they are one of, if not the most 0:18:44.858 --> 0:18:46.818 attractive job out there. So you should have your pick. 0:18:47.218 --> 0:18:50.458 The best candidates this cycle with Brian Dabag going back 0:18:50.458 --> 0:18:54.378 to New York are Ben Johnson, Mike Rabel, and Brian Flores. 0:18:54.618 --> 0:18:57.417 They can't talk to Flores for two more weeks, so 0:18:57.978 --> 0:19:00.618 because of the way they talked to the coaching search. 0:19:00.658 --> 0:19:03.818 They can talk to him virtually next week after the 0:19:03.858 --> 0:19:06.018 wildcard round, but they can't even put in a request 0:19:06.098 --> 0:19:08.098 until now, and they can't, so that's why there has 0:19:08.138 --> 0:19:11.618 to be in person until after the divisional. Johnson's in 0:19:11.978 --> 0:19:12.538 virtual two. 0:19:12.738 --> 0:19:15.298 Yes, yeah, he's virtual, but because they're on the buy, 0:19:15.738 --> 0:19:17.578 they can interview him virtually this week. 0:19:17.818 --> 0:19:20.258 So no, I'm with Now, Look when we get to 0:19:20.378 --> 0:19:25.417 offensive coordinator defensive coordinator, that's another question that should be 0:19:25.698 --> 0:19:26.698 very wide ranging. 0:19:26.818 --> 0:19:29.498 So I disagree to an extent. Well, some it depends 0:19:29.538 --> 0:19:31.698 on who the coaches if if Mike Rabel comes in. 0:19:32.258 --> 0:19:35.098 And this is another criticism that I had of the 0:19:35.138 --> 0:19:39.058 girod Mayo move was that there was really no girod 0:19:39.098 --> 0:19:43.298 Mayo had no Rolodex to pull from. Basically, all the 0:19:43.338 --> 0:19:46.618 new coaches that came in with the Patriots last year, 0:19:46.698 --> 0:19:51.058 Alex van Pelt, Jeremy Springer, Jerry Montgomery, Drew Wilkins, like 0:19:51.138 --> 0:19:55.618 those guys were all Elliott Wolf connections. Jeremy Springer went 0:19:55.658 --> 0:19:57.618 on the radio as recently as like last week and 0:19:57.618 --> 0:20:00.018 said he didn't even know Gerrod before he got here. 0:20:00.058 --> 0:20:02.458 It was Elliott Wolf that was his connection. We obviously 0:20:02.498 --> 0:20:05.498 know Van Pelt was a wolf guy. So one of 0:20:05.538 --> 0:20:09.578 the things that are appealing to me with both these 0:20:09.618 --> 0:20:13.378 candidates is that Mike Rabel has had a year. You know, 0:20:13.378 --> 0:20:15.418 he's consulting with the Browns, but he's had a year 0:20:15.738 --> 0:20:19.338 to reset and build a staff and say put out 0:20:19.378 --> 0:20:23.338 feelers to coordinators on both sides of the ball, who 0:20:23.338 --> 0:20:26.938 are who's coming with me? And Ben Johnson's had really 0:20:26.978 --> 0:20:30.177 three cycles now to make sure that he has that 0:20:30.578 --> 0:20:33.218 and down too. And there's some rumors like Mark Brunell 0:20:33.378 --> 0:20:36.578 maybe is offensive coordinator move. I know that would be 0:20:37.058 --> 0:20:37.778 testy and. 0:20:37.698 --> 0:20:39.578 I for a number of reasons. 0:20:39.778 --> 0:20:43.657 Now, I don't know if this changes things. With lou 0:20:43.698 --> 0:20:46.698 Ana Mariumo getting fired by the Bengals, him and Big 0:20:46.778 --> 0:20:48.938 Lou spent a lot of time together in Miami on 0:20:49.018 --> 0:20:51.498 the Dolphin staff, which, by the way, have you ever 0:20:51.698 --> 0:20:53.898 just side note real quick, have you ever looked at 0:20:53.898 --> 0:20:55.338 that Miami Dolphin staff. 0:20:55.738 --> 0:21:01.658 I did this. That's absolutely Washington was Joe Golbin was 0:21:01.698 --> 0:21:05.018 the head coach for most of it. But it's Dan Campbell, 0:21:05.418 --> 0:21:10.818 Ben Johnson, lou and Marumo uh the new the interim 0:21:10.818 --> 0:21:14.418 coach in New Orleans. What Rizzy, Like there's like four 0:21:14.698 --> 0:21:18.058 head coaches on that it's that Washington staff. It's the 0:21:18.058 --> 0:21:18.417 same thing. 0:21:18.498 --> 0:21:20.578 Yeah, so there's a lot of connections there with that 0:21:20.658 --> 0:21:23.578 Miami staff in terms of Ben Johnson of guys that 0:21:23.658 --> 0:21:26.978 maybe he could be bringing Big Lou Rizzy if he 0:21:27.018 --> 0:21:31.498 doesn't get another job, which he probably won't, teams coordinator, 0:21:31.618 --> 0:21:34.538 he could be the special teams coordinator here. And those 0:21:34.578 --> 0:21:37.538 things are to me are so appealing. And why the 0:21:37.618 --> 0:21:40.578 move with Gerard Mayo was made, because what was the 0:21:40.578 --> 0:21:43.098 pivot with Gerrod? Right, Like, he already went through a 0:21:43.138 --> 0:21:46.378 coaching hiring cycle once in terms of his staff where 0:21:46.418 --> 0:21:48.378 he really was flying by the seat of his pants 0:21:48.418 --> 0:21:50.578 and didn't have a ton of options. So what was 0:21:50.618 --> 0:21:53.258 the pivot in terms of offensive coordinator? Maybe you could 0:21:53.258 --> 0:21:55.698 have gotten josh on here, but now that's a weird 0:21:55.898 --> 0:21:58.298 I want to say Josh McDaniels, But that's a weird 0:21:58.418 --> 0:22:02.418 sort of dynamic there. So these guys should come in 0:22:02.458 --> 0:22:05.498 turn key, like they should already have a very very 0:22:05.538 --> 0:22:08.858 short list of who they're considering for these positions. 0:22:08.858 --> 0:22:10.618 And let me be clear with Rabel too, because I 0:22:10.618 --> 0:22:12.698 think some people are missing this unless they saw the 0:22:12.698 --> 0:22:15.498 sports supposing the clip of me saying this everywhere this morning, 0:22:16.138 --> 0:22:20.458 Mike Vrabel is not. This isn't Oh, You're just going 0:22:20.538 --> 0:22:23.898 back to the Belichick tree. No, Rabel as a coach 0:22:23.978 --> 0:22:28.458 is independent of Bill Belichick, almost entirely. So he was 0:22:28.538 --> 0:22:34.978 hired in at Ohio State when Jim Tressel was like there, 0:22:35.018 --> 0:22:38.498 but he was suspended. Luke Fickle was the interim. He 0:22:38.578 --> 0:22:41.498 then worked for Erben Meyer. He goes to Houston where 0:22:41.498 --> 0:22:43.498 he works for Bill O'Brien, So that's as close he 0:22:43.538 --> 0:22:45.818 got to the Belichick tree, but it is another program, 0:22:46.018 --> 0:22:49.258 is Bill O'Brien's program, which did differ from Belichick's program, 0:22:49.338 --> 0:22:53.458 and Houston made different connections there, goes to Tennessee. He 0:22:53.498 --> 0:22:56.458 had Dean Peas as his defensive coordinator. But besides that, 0:22:57.058 --> 0:22:59.697 just for a couple of years, Shane Bill really not 0:23:00.058 --> 0:23:03.298 And I think P's was like the only Patriot stat 0:23:03.298 --> 0:23:05.378 guy who had been here who was high level on 0:23:05.418 --> 0:23:08.138 the coaching stat completely different. The front office was different. 0:23:08.178 --> 0:23:10.578 But I would not want him bringing John Robinson here 0:23:10.578 --> 0:23:12.538 and I don't think he will, so I'm not too 0:23:12.578 --> 0:23:15.098 worried about that. And then he went to Cleveland where 0:23:15.218 --> 0:23:17.378 he worked for Stefanski, so he may have more in 0:23:17.378 --> 0:23:19.978 common at this point with Elliot Wolf than Bill Belichick. Look, 0:23:20.018 --> 0:23:22.218 he learned a lot about football from Bill Belichick. I 0:23:22.218 --> 0:23:24.298 think as a player you more learned the culture side, 0:23:24.298 --> 0:23:27.898 which is important in the search. But he's he's been around, 0:23:27.978 --> 0:23:32.738 he's independent of bell Check in terms of the coaching tree, 0:23:32.778 --> 0:23:36.258 like it's he's He's had his own path, he's made 0:23:36.298 --> 0:23:39.338 his own connections. He's been separate to that. So I 0:23:40.138 --> 0:23:43.698 think I don't think it's like, oh another retread. Look, 0:23:43.698 --> 0:23:46.378 could he bring back Belichick? Guys? Sure, I know he's 0:23:46.418 --> 0:23:49.218 kind of There's been some rumors that maybe Josh McDaniels. 0:23:49.618 --> 0:23:52.178 I wouldn't love that. I wouldn't hate it. I'd rather 0:23:52.298 --> 0:23:55.858 see him go back to that offense he was running 0:23:55.858 --> 0:23:59.058 in Tennessee with Arthur Smith and Matt Lafleur. You saw 0:23:59.058 --> 0:24:01.218 what that did for Ryan Tannehill, who I think has 0:24:01.258 --> 0:24:05.098 some physical comparisons to Drake May. So Drake May's obviously 0:24:05.138 --> 0:24:08.338 a much better player, but Drake May and that offense 0:24:08.418 --> 0:24:10.338 would intrigue me. You got to you know, they had 0:24:10.378 --> 0:24:14.098 Derrick Henry, but you make adjustments. But it's not gonna 0:24:14.098 --> 0:24:17.418 be Rabel suddenly bringing back all these guys that were 0:24:17.418 --> 0:24:20.178 here for twenty years. There's gonna be a couple. There 0:24:20.258 --> 0:24:22.378 might be some guys that were here like Vrabel as 0:24:22.378 --> 0:24:25.898 players but have their own independent coaching backgrounds. Wes Welker, 0:24:25.898 --> 0:24:29.338 for instance, he overlapped with in Houston. But he's gonna 0:24:29.378 --> 0:24:31.978 have It's not like draw to your point where it's 0:24:32.098 --> 0:24:33.778 just all right. He was here in New England. He 0:24:33.778 --> 0:24:35.778 knows the guys who were here in New England. There's 0:24:35.818 --> 0:24:38.978 a much vasus. He has a much more vast network. Yeah. 0:24:39.018 --> 0:24:41.138 So when I was at the Senior Bowl last year, 0:24:41.418 --> 0:24:45.538 I actually bumped into Mike rabel Uh and he was 0:24:45.578 --> 0:24:47.538 there as a coaching free agent at the time. He 0:24:47.578 --> 0:24:51.018 hadn't signed a contract with the Browns and I didn't 0:24:51.018 --> 0:24:54.058 speak with him or anything, but I just noticed he 0:24:54.098 --> 0:24:59.338 was there. And when he's there to network, right, he's 0:24:59.378 --> 0:25:02.418 there to talk to executives, to talk to coaches, to 0:25:02.938 --> 0:25:07.778 network and make connections and build build relationships so that 0:25:08.138 --> 0:25:10.738 when he gets his next crack at it, he has 0:25:10.778 --> 0:25:14.498 a Rolodex to then go to and say this is 0:25:14.538 --> 0:25:16.378 what I want, you know, these are the people that 0:25:16.418 --> 0:25:18.098 I want to work with. These are this this is 0:25:18.138 --> 0:25:21.498 my staff, these are my coordinators, so on and so forth. Yeah, 0:25:21.538 --> 0:25:24.298 so all that is intriguing. Now we disagree a little 0:25:24.338 --> 0:25:28.138 bit on the direction in terms of Rabel and Ben Johnson, 0:25:28.418 --> 0:25:30.218 and I want to unpack that. We've been texting about 0:25:30.258 --> 0:25:32.298 it back and forth, trying to save it for the show. 0:25:32.658 --> 0:25:37.338 So I guess my biggest issue, and like you said, 0:25:37.378 --> 0:25:41.378 both of them have issues, have concerns, and that every 0:25:41.538 --> 0:25:42.698 there's no perfect candidate. 0:25:42.698 --> 0:25:46.458 They're all going to have concerns. So my biggest issue 0:25:46.858 --> 0:25:53.378 with Rabel is that I worry about the overall direction 0:25:53.498 --> 0:25:57.418 of the offense. I worry about Drake May's development because 0:25:57.738 --> 0:26:00.378 he is not coming in. Rabel is not coming in 0:26:00.418 --> 0:26:03.898 specifically to run the offense or call offensive place I 0:26:03.938 --> 0:26:07.618 hope not. Ben Johnson, on the other hand, might have 0:26:07.658 --> 0:26:10.778 some of the experience program building things that we can 0:26:10.818 --> 0:26:14.258 talk about in terms of his concerns, but what I'm 0:26:14.298 --> 0:26:17.618 definitely sure of is that he's going to run a 0:26:17.698 --> 0:26:22.378 damn good scheme, right, And so you have the model 0:26:23.098 --> 0:26:28.538 of Shanahan, McVeigh, Lafleur, O'Connell, McDaniel, Mike. 0:26:28.778 --> 0:26:30.338 Well, yeah, sure, if you want to go down the 0:26:30.538 --> 0:26:33.258 rabbit hole. But we can go down the rabbit hole 0:26:33.298 --> 0:26:36.218 on the culture side too, And for every Dan Campbell, 0:26:36.258 --> 0:26:39.498 there's Doug Peterson, right, So it goes both ways. My 0:26:39.858 --> 0:26:43.498 point being this, if you look at the teams that 0:26:43.538 --> 0:26:46.658 are winning Super Bowls and are competing for Super Bowls, 0:26:47.098 --> 0:26:50.538 a lot of those teams have the tight pants guy. 0:26:50.738 --> 0:26:53.018 It's just a fact, right, It just And I know 0:26:53.058 --> 0:26:57.578 Andy Reid is his own I'm not I'm not counting 0:26:57.578 --> 0:27:01.098 any Reid, but that's a big part of it. And 0:27:01.178 --> 0:27:03.898 a big part of it is Drake May. And what 0:27:04.018 --> 0:27:06.778 I worry about with Rabel. And you can make the 0:27:06.898 --> 0:27:08.657 argument that he just played this way because he had 0:27:08.698 --> 0:27:11.738 Derrick Henry and that was what fit them best. But 0:27:12.098 --> 0:27:15.818 I don't want to turn a Drake May into an 0:27:15.898 --> 0:27:19.178 under center, turn around hand the ball off in a 0:27:19.218 --> 0:27:22.418 two back set to the running back and then like 0:27:22.498 --> 0:27:24.657 every three plays, we're gonna call play action and get 0:27:24.738 --> 0:27:26.138 him on the move and make it let him throw 0:27:26.178 --> 0:27:28.738 it down the field. I want to build this offense 0:27:28.778 --> 0:27:32.298 around Drake May. I want him to be the engine 0:27:32.338 --> 0:27:35.578 of the offense, much like Josh Allen is the engine 0:27:35.578 --> 0:27:38.778 of the offense in Buffalo. And I worry about with 0:27:38.898 --> 0:27:41.378 Rabel that it's gonna be a little old school. And 0:27:41.418 --> 0:27:44.098 I'm not necessarily saying old school in terms of it's 0:27:44.098 --> 0:27:45.098 gonna be Belichickian. 0:27:45.178 --> 0:27:46.658 I'm just saying old school. 0:27:46.578 --> 0:27:50.498 That it's gonna be a run first offense, play good defense, 0:27:51.018 --> 0:27:53.578 be sound in all three phases, and we're gonna win 0:27:53.618 --> 0:27:55.018 Game seventeen to quarantine. 0:27:55.058 --> 0:27:58.098 I think that. I like, I get that, and I 0:27:58.098 --> 0:28:01.698 know I just said the Tennessee offense. Obviously, you're it's 0:28:01.778 --> 0:28:05.338 that overarching idea, but you're you're building that around Drake 0:28:05.418 --> 0:28:07.738 Man when he's better in Tannehill, so you have him 0:28:07.778 --> 0:28:12.178 do more things than Tannehill did. Of course, you have 0:28:12.338 --> 0:28:15.138 Drake May. You're gonna have your pick of your offensive coordinators. Right, 0:28:15.338 --> 0:28:19.618 what if you hire rabel So he was in Houston, 0:28:20.138 --> 0:28:23.018 he was in Tennessee, he was in Cleveland. Those were 0:28:23.098 --> 0:28:27.218 three different offensive systems. Essentially, it is some overlap between 0:28:27.378 --> 0:28:28.698 what he's doing in Tennessee and what he was doing 0:28:28.738 --> 0:28:31.898 in Cleveland, but there's differences there. I don't see him 0:28:31.898 --> 0:28:34.098 as a guy that's going to be married to one 0:28:34.138 --> 0:28:38.498 offensive system. I think he's going to do what he 0:28:38.618 --> 0:28:42.658 believes is best for the offense, what's best for Drake 0:28:42.698 --> 0:28:44.578 may like, I don't think he's married to we have 0:28:44.698 --> 0:28:47.938 to be this identity on offense because he's a defensive coach. 0:28:48.458 --> 0:28:50.778 Fair the question that you have for Abel when he 0:28:50.778 --> 0:28:53.378 sits down at the table, because I'm you're not worried 0:28:53.378 --> 0:28:54.978 about all the stuff that we just talked about for 0:28:55.018 --> 0:28:55.818 the first twenty minute. 0:28:55.858 --> 0:28:58.618 No, you're you're not worried. You're worried about the offensive coordinator. 0:28:58.618 --> 0:28:59.738 Which who's your coordinator? 0:28:59.778 --> 0:29:05.458 Higher and if it's Josh McDaniels, Okay, but how is 0:29:05.538 --> 0:29:09.338 Josh McDaniels going to bring that offense to the twenty. 0:29:09.258 --> 0:29:12.618 Well to me twenty twenty five? Which Josh McDaniel's offense, 0:29:13.498 --> 0:29:15.818 remember me? Like, is it the Brady offense? Or is 0:29:15.818 --> 0:29:16.858 it the Cam Newton offense? 0:29:18.218 --> 0:29:20.218 I mean the Cam Newton offense I think was done 0:29:20.258 --> 0:29:22.738 out of desperation, Like, I don't think that that's truly 0:29:22.738 --> 0:29:23.618 who Josh is. 0:29:23.658 --> 0:29:27.418 Like Josh Josh McDaniels is Brady mac Jones. Okay, what 0:29:27.498 --> 0:29:31.058 he tried to do in Vegas? But different was was there? 0:29:31.418 --> 0:29:34.178 Did we see Josh McDaniels could develop a run game 0:29:34.178 --> 0:29:35.258 for a quarterback? Yes? Or no? 0:29:35.978 --> 0:29:40.178 We did, But again I don't know. I don't think 0:29:40.178 --> 0:29:42.898 that's his preferred route, but he did it. 0:29:43.058 --> 0:29:45.618 He did it. That's and I wonder maybe that's part 0:29:45.658 --> 0:29:48.818 of it. Maybe if Rabel says, McDaniels, you talk to 0:29:48.898 --> 0:29:51.258 McDaniels and you said, all right, is this gonna be? 0:29:52.338 --> 0:29:54.058 You know, is it? Are we gonna try to turn 0:29:54.138 --> 0:29:56.018 Drake me and to Tom Brady or are we gonna 0:29:56.018 --> 0:29:57.658 have some of these other elements in here like you 0:29:57.738 --> 0:30:00.378 had with Cam Newton. You know another guy that's been 0:30:00.378 --> 0:30:02.578 floated as Tommy Reese, who I'm not a big fan of, 0:30:02.618 --> 0:30:05.178 but he's kind of done some more modern things. He 0:30:05.258 --> 0:30:08.818 was at Alabama with I think he was there with Bryce, 0:30:09.498 --> 0:30:11.898 he was there with Milroe. So he's done some of that. 0:30:13.298 --> 0:30:15.258 And this gets to kind of my other point about Rabel. 0:30:15.298 --> 0:30:16.978 And when you get to Rabel verus Ben Johnson again, 0:30:17.138 --> 0:30:21.218 I think are both good candidates. Right, Let's say you 0:30:21.258 --> 0:30:24.138 don't get it right with Rabel on the offensive coordinator higher, 0:30:24.218 --> 0:30:27.658 Let's say the first year isn't good. You can move 0:30:27.658 --> 0:30:30.178 on from the offensive coordinator. Let's say you hire Ben 0:30:30.218 --> 0:30:32.018 Jons and you find out in a year he can't 0:30:32.018 --> 0:30:35.298 do the program stuff. That's a much harder pivot to 0:30:35.338 --> 0:30:40.658 make so I do think Mike Vrabel can find the 0:30:40.698 --> 0:30:44.458 right offensive coordinator because he did it in Tennessee. He 0:30:44.578 --> 0:30:47.178 built a good program in Tennessee, and he was able 0:30:47.178 --> 0:30:50.298 to find not just one, not just one. But when 0:30:50.338 --> 0:30:54.058 Matt Laffler left, he was able to identify Arthur Smith 0:30:54.098 --> 0:30:55.098 and get to the next guy. 0:30:55.258 --> 0:30:58.538 But I pushed back a little bit on good offenses, 0:30:58.618 --> 0:31:02.298 Like he had a good offense in Tennessee that was 0:31:02.338 --> 0:31:04.098 not a super Bowl caliber offense. 0:31:04.138 --> 0:31:07.138 No, but they had Ryan Tannehill. Okay, Drake May, Okay, 0:31:07.178 --> 0:31:10.018 but I love Drake May. You know that. But he's 0:31:10.018 --> 0:31:11.778 still got a lot of developing he does. 0:31:11.898 --> 0:31:13.818 So that's that's going to be part of it, right 0:31:13.858 --> 0:31:16.498 And now you know we're talking about things about his 0:31:17.098 --> 0:31:19.978 Drake May's whole development in year two here, So let 0:31:20.018 --> 0:31:22.178 me ask you a year, you know, the footwork changes, 0:31:23.258 --> 0:31:24.818 what is he going to be? You know, his eighty 0:31:24.858 --> 0:31:27.058 five percent of the time he threw a pass from 0:31:27.178 --> 0:31:29.618 shotgun this year, that's not a very high percentage of 0:31:29.698 --> 0:31:32.698 under center. Is a coach that comes in like McDaniels 0:31:32.698 --> 0:31:34.978 are a West Coast coach that isn't Alex van pel 0:31:35.258 --> 0:31:36.378 gonna want to run it more? 0:31:36.418 --> 0:31:37.178 From under center. 0:31:37.338 --> 0:31:39.698 We know McDaniels is gonna want to come in and 0:31:39.738 --> 0:31:42.738 be under center, two back, full back in the backfield 0:31:42.978 --> 0:31:44.618 and ram it down people's throats. 0:31:44.658 --> 0:31:46.498 We know that that's the type of offense he's gonna 0:31:46.498 --> 0:31:47.018 want to run. 0:31:47.258 --> 0:31:50.258 And that's exactly what Rabel did in Tennessee. So that's aligned. 0:31:50.498 --> 0:31:51.778 So I just I just. 0:31:51.698 --> 0:31:53.378 Looked he was he was in Cleveland last year, he 0:31:53.378 --> 0:31:56.138 had experienced with a different offense. What if he calls 0:31:56.138 --> 0:31:57.018 a glec Josh McCown. 0:31:58.458 --> 0:32:01.298 Okay, So then the issue with Josh McCown is that 0:32:01.338 --> 0:32:03.458 he's already getting some buzz to be a head coach 0:32:03.578 --> 0:32:07.098 this cycle. So he comes here, he calls plays, he 0:32:07.178 --> 0:32:09.458 looks great doing it, and then you're looking for a 0:32:09.458 --> 0:32:12.058 new offensive coordinator in twenty So this is this is 0:32:12.098 --> 0:32:14.778 where the program builder element comes in. In one year, you're 0:32:14.818 --> 0:32:17.058 gonna build a pro. You're gonna get a coordinator ready 0:32:17.098 --> 0:32:18.538 to replace McCown in one year. 0:32:18.618 --> 0:32:21.458 He replaced Matt Lafleur in one year. It was longer 0:32:21.498 --> 0:32:23.098 than one year. Wasn't pretty sure it's just one year. 0:32:23.138 --> 0:32:25.298 I was looking before the show. Let me double check it. 0:32:25.458 --> 0:32:27.578 Just I think it was just one year. It feels 0:32:27.578 --> 0:32:31.098 to me like that it was just one year. He 0:32:31.178 --> 0:32:33.738 came in twenty eighteen with the flour Well flour left 0:32:33.738 --> 0:32:35.778 after the twenty eighteen season. It was Arthur Smith for 0:32:35.818 --> 0:32:39.458 two years. Okay, but what was the stealing of those offenses? 0:32:39.498 --> 0:32:42.218 Like REALI but those offenses had Ryan Tannehill. 0:32:42.298 --> 0:32:45.018 Okay, but we you keep saying that, like Ryan Tannehill 0:32:45.058 --> 0:32:46.298 was some bum in Tennessee. 0:32:46.498 --> 0:32:47.538 He's like bum in Miami. 0:32:47.578 --> 0:32:51.418 And Ryan Tannehill played really good football in Tennessee. If 0:32:51.498 --> 0:32:54.738 Drake May puts up Ryan tannehill numbers, then we got 0:32:54.778 --> 0:32:57.378 a superstar on our hands, because you're gonna look at 0:32:57.458 --> 0:32:59.858 him differently than you look at Ryan Tannehill. You look 0:32:59.898 --> 0:33:03.138 at Ryan Tannehill's box score stats in Tennessee's like thirty 0:33:03.138 --> 0:33:05.138 five to seven touchdown Interesting, he's. 0:33:05.018 --> 0:33:07.058 An MVP can one of those years. But that's my point, 0:33:07.298 --> 0:33:09.658 you look at We can't just assume that Jake May 0:33:09.698 --> 0:33:11.778 is gonna be gonna do that. He was my point. 0:33:11.978 --> 0:33:13.618 You can't do that with Ben Johnson either. 0:33:14.018 --> 0:33:16.578 But I have much better faith than Ben Johnson's scheming 0:33:16.578 --> 0:33:19.978 an offense, and so I just again, this is what happens. 0:33:20.018 --> 0:33:22.858 We know this is what happens. They're they're gonna continue 0:33:22.898 --> 0:33:25.778 to cycle through offensive coordinators. They've done it in Buffalo. 0:33:25.818 --> 0:33:27.978 I also like Buffalo is dealt with that too, And 0:33:28.058 --> 0:33:29.898 so here's Josh Allen got to the point where he 0:33:29.938 --> 0:33:33.018 was quarterback proved or see. So that's the other thing 0:33:33.058 --> 0:33:35.978 with the cycling through coordinators. I think people are maybe 0:33:36.018 --> 0:33:37.578 and I know I'm the guy that always talks about 0:33:37.578 --> 0:33:39.298 make it as easy as possible in the quarterback and 0:33:39.298 --> 0:33:41.978 I do still believe that, but specific specifically about a 0:33:41.978 --> 0:33:45.938 young quarterback, right the faith quack, so he is right now. 0:33:46.138 --> 0:33:50.458 But first off, on the account thing, Ben Johnson has 0:33:50.498 --> 0:33:56.378 been this this generational candidate, yet he was in Detroit 0:33:56.418 --> 0:33:57.018 for three years. 0:33:57.098 --> 0:33:59.618 Yeah, because he held his water like it's different, Like 0:33:59.658 --> 0:34:00.978 it's the same thing with Demiko Ryan. 0:34:01.098 --> 0:34:02.618 But I think that's what a lot of these guys 0:34:02.618 --> 0:34:05.098 are doing now. It slowly did it and it hurt him, 0:34:05.098 --> 0:34:07.538 but slowly did the same thing. So the idea that 0:34:07.578 --> 0:34:10.538 any offensive coordinator is going to be done one and 0:34:10.618 --> 0:34:13.897 done because of Drake Man is not a guaranteed okay 0:34:14.258 --> 0:34:16.738 years Okay, so you get two years with that coordinator. Again, 0:34:16.817 --> 0:34:20.938 this is faith in Vrabel's program. Yet you you ideally 0:34:20.978 --> 0:34:22.698 have the next guy in the pipeline, So two years, 0:34:22.738 --> 0:34:25.698 one coordinator, two years and next coordinator. Now Drake may 0:34:25.738 --> 0:34:28.658 has been in the league for six years. He should 0:34:28.698 --> 0:34:30.258 be able to handle it. At that point in the 0:34:30.297 --> 0:34:33.578 re is if your pipeline is strong enough, you're gonna 0:34:33.698 --> 0:34:36.138 continue to pull guys from your system where the offense 0:34:36.218 --> 0:34:38.978 isn't going to be changing a significant amount, if at all. 0:34:39.378 --> 0:34:42.378 So if you have that pipeline, you don't need to 0:34:42.378 --> 0:34:45.058 worry about losing guys because the system, the approach, the 0:34:45.178 --> 0:34:48.418 program is the same. You know, Evan, You know, I 0:34:48.458 --> 0:34:50.618 feel strongly about this if I'm willing to use Buffalo 0:34:50.658 --> 0:34:52.178 as an example in a positive light. 0:34:52.258 --> 0:34:56.338 But Buffalo Buffalo isn't. It goes both ways with Buffalo 0:34:56.618 --> 0:34:57.738 because they've You've. 0:34:57.538 --> 0:34:59.978 Wanted the Patriots to be the Bills for years. Rabel 0:35:00.098 --> 0:35:00.658 makes them. 0:35:00.498 --> 0:35:03.018 The Bills, but he but they fed it up at first. 0:35:03.378 --> 0:35:07.817 They hired Ken Dorsey and the Dorsey Hire in twenty three, 0:35:07.818 --> 0:35:10.498 which barely made it halfway through the season. They fired 0:35:10.578 --> 0:35:12.578 him in season and replaced him with Joe Brady, but 0:35:12.618 --> 0:35:15.178 at that point that basically cost them a run. But 0:35:15.298 --> 0:35:17.938 they cost them to run out of Super Bowl that year. 0:35:17.978 --> 0:35:21.297 But at that point, Josh Allen, who's to say that 0:35:21.458 --> 0:35:23.858 the same would half with Ben Johnson a defensive coordinator. 0:35:24.138 --> 0:35:26.898 The it happened in San Francisco this year, defense fell 0:35:26.898 --> 0:35:29.578 apart because who did they hire Brandon Staley for some reason? No, 0:35:30.178 --> 0:35:32.218 he was and even their defensive corn he had a 0:35:32.298 --> 0:35:34.618 role in that defense. Maybe not by title, but he 0:35:34.618 --> 0:35:36.618 had a role in that defense. Don't don't, don't move 0:35:36.658 --> 0:35:39.817 the goal busts by the time, by the time, well, 0:35:39.858 --> 0:35:41.418 those advisors are going to be important, We'll get to that. 0:35:41.458 --> 0:35:43.498 When you get to Ben Jonson's He's like there, Ben 0:35:43.578 --> 0:35:46.018 Mackett by the time, how that go. By the time 0:35:46.858 --> 0:35:49.817 that they made the door, see mistake, Allen had been 0:35:49.858 --> 0:35:52.098 in the league long enough and developed long enough that 0:35:52.138 --> 0:35:54.857 he survived it. And did it cost them a run, Yes, 0:35:54.858 --> 0:35:56.777 but they're gonna continue to have a chance to go 0:35:56.818 --> 0:35:59.018 on runs because of that talent. 0:35:59.138 --> 0:36:01.058 And now so now Joe Brady's gonna get a head 0:36:01.058 --> 0:36:02.858 coaching job, and they're gonna be replacing another. 0:36:02.738 --> 0:36:05.258 Quarterator and you hope that the program is strong enough 0:36:05.298 --> 0:36:06.978 to bring that next guy. So there's thing I think 0:36:07.058 --> 0:36:09.338 Rabel's better program building than Sean McDermott. That's why I 0:36:09.378 --> 0:36:11.658 keep thinking the Bills will fall off. To me, Vrabel's 0:36:11.698 --> 0:36:14.618 a better version of Sean McDermott, much better version of 0:36:14.658 --> 0:36:18.538 Sean McDermott. So if if you just get that first 0:36:18.578 --> 0:36:23.498 offensive coordinator right to me, and that's not an insignificant 0:36:23.538 --> 0:36:25.938 if I acknowledge it's a big if. But if you 0:36:25.938 --> 0:36:29.938 get that first offensive coordinator right, I think you're often running. 0:36:29.938 --> 0:36:32.337 If Rabel builds a program comparable the one he built 0:36:32.338 --> 0:36:35.498 in Tennessee, because I trust him to, because he you know, 0:36:35.778 --> 0:36:37.418 this is what we saw Bill do for years. I 0:36:37.418 --> 0:36:42.378 trust him to identify not just the offensive coordinator, but quarterbacks, coach, receiver, 0:36:42.538 --> 0:36:45.258 tight ends coach, offensive line coach, pass game coordinator, run 0:36:45.258 --> 0:36:47.698 game coordinator, whatever it is. Like I think they tried 0:36:47.738 --> 0:36:50.338 to do this year with Alexander Pelton T C McCartney. 0:36:50.538 --> 0:36:52.538 Like if Van Pelt, let's say this year had gone well, 0:36:52.658 --> 0:36:55.218 if Van Pelton got hired, away, it was all lined up. 0:36:55.338 --> 0:36:57.938 But Van Pelt was never gonna get hired. Like let's say, hey, 0:36:58.258 --> 0:37:02.978 he's twenty years into let's say he did. Then TC 0:37:03.098 --> 0:37:04.818 McCarty was lined up to be the next guy, and boom, 0:37:04.818 --> 0:37:06.658 it seamless. And to your point, van Pelt wasn't gonna 0:37:06.658 --> 0:37:09.817 get hired away. What if Vrabel finds that guy? 0:37:09.978 --> 0:37:14.938 But but van Pelt though, that's the point though, is 0:37:14.978 --> 0:37:18.098 that to me that would have been moving too quickly, 0:37:18.298 --> 0:37:20.498 right if Van Pelt got hired away after one season? 0:37:20.498 --> 0:37:22.938 TC McCarty was not ready to be the coordinator. And 0:37:22.978 --> 0:37:25.658 this is exactly what happened with Bill at the end. 0:37:26.098 --> 0:37:28.658 Was that really the gun there was no pipeline. No, 0:37:29.018 --> 0:37:32.458 that's not true. The pipeline was Achille. But Josh McDaniels 0:37:32.658 --> 0:37:35.018 took a job that Bill was not expecting him to take, 0:37:35.378 --> 0:37:36.898 and Nick Kelly was not ready. 0:37:37.178 --> 0:37:39.338 So I think the idea that it's gonna happen in 0:37:39.378 --> 0:37:42.458 one year, I'm not as confident that you lose the 0:37:42.498 --> 0:37:45.138 coordinator in one year. I'm just not I I don't 0:37:45.178 --> 0:37:48.098 think the ceiling for the offense is that high because 0:37:48.098 --> 0:37:50.978 of the personnel, and we all know that, like Josh 0:37:51.058 --> 0:37:52.817 McDaniel shouldn't have been hired at that point. I think 0:37:52.818 --> 0:37:54.658 that's kind of become clear now by the Raiders. So 0:37:54.738 --> 0:37:57.738 my bigger concern though, and well let me ask you 0:37:57.738 --> 0:38:02.018 this too, who's to say that Mike Vrabel can't find 0:38:02.058 --> 0:38:04.338 his Ben Johnson. Who is Ben Johnson? When Dan Campbell 0:38:04.418 --> 0:38:04.938 hired him. 0:38:05.498 --> 0:38:09.218 It's a hot commodity Ben So Ben Johnson? What makes 0:38:09.298 --> 0:38:10.258 him so appealing to me? 0:38:11.178 --> 0:38:13.658 Along with just the receivers coach in Miami? 0:38:13.778 --> 0:38:15.857 He I mean he coached every position in Miami. He's 0:38:15.938 --> 0:38:19.058 quarterbacks coach, wide receivers coach, tight end's coach, and then 0:38:19.098 --> 0:38:22.378 he went to Detroit coached tight ends there for a 0:38:22.418 --> 0:38:25.538 couple of years, which is the position to coach, by 0:38:25.578 --> 0:38:27.817 the way, in terms of because you're dealing with run 0:38:27.858 --> 0:38:29.698 and pass games. So if you're gonna be on the 0:38:29.698 --> 0:38:34.018 coordinator track, a lot of those coordinators McVeigh. Those guys, 0:38:34.058 --> 0:38:36.658 they start as tight ends coaches and then they work 0:38:36.698 --> 0:38:40.578 their way up to coordinator. We know, in my opinion, 0:38:41.178 --> 0:38:44.738 I kind of am worried that Mike Rabel is gonna 0:38:44.738 --> 0:38:47.498 have a ceiling. I think Mike Rabel's gonna get you 0:38:47.538 --> 0:38:49.897 to a really nice floor. Yeah, and you're gonna get 0:38:49.938 --> 0:38:53.378 You're gonna hire him. He's gonna bring respectability, he's gonna 0:38:53.378 --> 0:38:56.698 bring professionalism, he's gonna bring accountability. He's gonna be a 0:38:56.778 --> 0:38:59.538 very very good CEO coach and a culture builder and 0:38:59.618 --> 0:39:03.258 all the program stuff and all that's all well and good, 0:39:04.058 --> 0:39:06.218 but I believe that that's going to have a ceiling 0:39:06.738 --> 0:39:07.338 long term. 0:39:07.378 --> 0:39:09.857 Well, but isn't that what Drake mays for to then 0:39:09.898 --> 0:39:12.218 get you to that next level? Isn't that the ing 0:39:12.258 --> 0:39:15.898 the superstar quarterback if they let him. I think Rabel 0:39:15.978 --> 0:39:17.898 understands the modern game enough to do that. 0:39:17.978 --> 0:39:21.938 So I am concerned that the Mike, that's a nine 0:39:22.018 --> 0:39:23.978 or ten win ceiling, which is not to. 0:39:23.938 --> 0:39:26.698 Say if you're gonna say as a Niner ceiling, no, no, 0:39:26.858 --> 0:39:29.618 you want it nine or ten win season. And I 0:39:29.858 --> 0:39:32.458 hired that. I won twelve games in Tennessee. Yeah, it 0:39:32.498 --> 0:39:34.418 was such a that was like there was all sorts 0:39:34.458 --> 0:39:37.777 of sun. No, no, he won twelve. The AFC was 0:39:37.858 --> 0:39:40.458 weak that year and he all he won it. And 0:39:40.858 --> 0:39:43.858 Brady's last year with the Patriots, he flamed. He won 0:39:43.898 --> 0:39:44.898 twelve games in Tennessee. 0:39:44.938 --> 0:39:46.978 Okay, he won twelve games one year in his six 0:39:47.018 --> 0:39:49.738 seasons in Tennessee. Was throw him a parade, like do 0:39:49.818 --> 0:39:52.498 you you have to there's there a ceiling to it. Yes, 0:39:52.818 --> 0:39:54.578 there's a ceiling to it. That's where you showed that 0:39:54.698 --> 0:39:57.817 in Tennessee. Okay, But if you got higher. You are 0:39:58.098 --> 0:40:00.738 not taking any risks with Rabel. You know what you're getting. 0:40:00.938 --> 0:40:04.458 It's a floor higher, and in my opinion, I think 0:40:04.458 --> 0:40:06.898 you're going to be a really solid football program. I 0:40:06.938 --> 0:40:09.258 don't know what your ceiling is with Mike Rabel, With 0:40:09.378 --> 0:40:11.938 Ben Johnson, you run the risk of it flaming out. 0:40:11.978 --> 0:40:14.098 You run the risk of it being a disaster. I 0:40:14.138 --> 0:40:20.418 acknowledge that. But the upside is Shanahan, McVeigh, O'Connell. It's 0:40:20.578 --> 0:40:22.498 super Bowl team. That's the upside. 0:40:23.698 --> 0:40:26.258 I don't see why the upside keep with the personnel. 0:40:26.338 --> 0:40:29.018 So I think coaching sets the floor. Talent sets the ceiling. Right, 0:40:29.378 --> 0:40:31.058 So this is where we get in to the elliot 0:40:31.098 --> 0:40:33.298 wolf of it all. And I said earlier like I 0:40:33.298 --> 0:40:35.498 want to know who has final say And that's the 0:40:35.538 --> 0:40:37.698 other part of this. Who's either one bringing as their 0:40:37.738 --> 0:40:39.818 GM or whatever it is. It's not gonna be a 0:40:39.818 --> 0:40:41.898 GM because they just don't have gms here, But like, 0:40:42.258 --> 0:40:43.978 who has that? We did this last year. I don't 0:40:43.978 --> 0:40:46.498 care what the title is. Six people in the room. 0:40:46.978 --> 0:40:50.018 Three want Abdul Carter, three want Will Campbell. Who gets 0:40:50.058 --> 0:40:51.818 to put their fist on the table and say my 0:40:51.938 --> 0:40:54.938 vote counts is too we're getting my guy right. That's 0:40:55.218 --> 0:40:58.698 that's the other unknown here. So I have a thought 0:40:58.738 --> 0:41:01.458 on that, but sorry, and it's it's gonna be different 0:41:01.458 --> 0:41:03.698 with Rabel or Johnson. If, like Rabel says in the meeting, 0:41:03.738 --> 0:41:06.138 I want John Robbinson, I say the guy that traded 0:41:06.178 --> 0:41:09.178 aj Brown, and then I call Ben Johnson, right, So 0:41:09.778 --> 0:41:13.178 like there's that element to it. But I think talent 0:41:13.258 --> 0:41:16.578 sets the ceiling, and they just need to get the 0:41:16.618 --> 0:41:19.817 things you said respectable, professional, accountable. They need to get 0:41:19.858 --> 0:41:22.258 back to that they cannot afford to not get back. 0:41:22.338 --> 0:41:24.578 They also need to score points, which they haven't done 0:41:24.618 --> 0:41:28.058 in four years. So Drake may can't help them score 0:41:28.058 --> 0:41:29.578 for the course, but it shouldn't be all on the 0:41:29.578 --> 0:41:32.458 second year quarterback to help them score points. No, that's 0:41:32.738 --> 0:41:34.817 that's where the personnel guy comes. You're not gonna gotta 0:41:34.818 --> 0:41:35.698 get that guy help. 0:41:36.178 --> 0:41:38.578 So now it's all on the talent. Like if yes, 0:41:38.618 --> 0:41:40.777 they're not going I said this, they're not gonna win 0:41:40.858 --> 0:41:43.258 like that. You're not gonna win with twenty points a game. 0:41:43.298 --> 0:41:46.418 I said this before they I've been saying this since Ocatobe. 0:41:46.418 --> 0:41:47.817 I think I've been saying it since start of the year. 0:41:48.538 --> 0:41:52.538 Were there coaching issues this year? Yes, absolutely, moving on 0:41:52.578 --> 0:41:54.777 for May it was necessary. But if we were to 0:41:54.858 --> 0:41:58.418 list the biggest issues facing the twenty twenty three Patriots, 0:41:58.858 --> 0:42:01.297 twenty twenty four Patriots, and twenty twenty three twenty twenty 0:42:01.298 --> 0:42:05.138 four Patriots, at the top of that list was roster talent. 0:42:07.098 --> 0:42:12.817 So that has to improve. And I I think Ben 0:42:12.898 --> 0:42:15.698 Johnson comes in and just spins his wheels like and 0:42:15.858 --> 0:42:17.898 just just focus on the offense and the scheme. And 0:42:18.058 --> 0:42:21.218 so many of these guys think the schemes above the talent, right. 0:42:21.338 --> 0:42:28.897 We know essentially that your guy, Kyle Shanahan feels that way. 0:42:29.418 --> 0:42:33.338 So here's a difference between these two candidates. The biggest 0:42:33.338 --> 0:42:38.218 difference between these two candidates with Mike Rabel. If the 0:42:38.218 --> 0:42:41.938 Patriots hire Mike Rabel, I'm giving the keys to Rabel. 0:42:42.298 --> 0:42:45.498 It's Rabel's shows when it comes to final say on 0:42:45.538 --> 0:42:49.418 the roster. I'm not necessarily giving him all the personnel power. 0:42:49.658 --> 0:42:52.658 I still want him working in conjunction with a general manager. 0:42:52.658 --> 0:42:56.978 I would want an experienced front office executive. Who's your 0:42:57.018 --> 0:42:59.578 guy from New York that you like Ryan Cowden. Yeah, 0:42:59.618 --> 0:43:02.818 I'd still like somebody who's been in front office it 0:43:02.818 --> 0:43:05.777 because Rabel's never negotiated a contract, right, So like, I 0:43:05.818 --> 0:43:07.938 still want a guy like that, but I'm I'm okay 0:43:07.978 --> 0:43:10.498 if Mike Rabel's final say, I'm not giving Ben Johnson. 0:43:10.698 --> 0:43:12.777 So this is the difference in the higher right. The 0:43:12.818 --> 0:43:16.298 difference is that Rabel is coming here to run the program. 0:43:16.378 --> 0:43:22.018 Yes, it is his ship. He's he's the all encompassing guy. Right. 0:43:22.898 --> 0:43:26.458 If I'm hiring Ben Johnson, I'm hiring Ben Johnson for 0:43:26.578 --> 0:43:30.178 two main reasons, to run Drake may like it's his 0:43:30.218 --> 0:43:32.858 develo and call offensive plays. 0:43:34.138 --> 0:43:36.458 I'm gonna hire two things that other people can do 0:43:36.498 --> 0:43:38.938 with Mike Rabel's the head coach, not as well. And 0:43:39.018 --> 0:43:41.098 so then you don't know what's to say. He can't 0:43:41.098 --> 0:43:42.178 find Ben Jonson. 0:43:42.258 --> 0:43:44.818 Know that you do know that, you know he's not 0:43:44.858 --> 0:43:47.297 gonna be as good as Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson has 0:43:47.338 --> 0:43:51.058 literally been the top candidate for two straight stycles because 0:43:51.058 --> 0:43:56.857 of this, Okay, or he fights all these Guyshan McVeigh, Lafleur, O'Connell, 0:43:57.418 --> 0:44:00.898 Brady's shortly, Ben Johnson shortly. What do they all have 0:44:00.938 --> 0:44:04.418 in common? They're head coaches. They're going to be head coaches. 0:44:04.738 --> 0:44:07.618 So unless you're gonna tell me that Mike Rabel has 0:44:07.658 --> 0:44:10.498 some secret diamond in the rough. 0:44:10.858 --> 0:44:13.178 Tommy Reese is going to be the new You just 0:44:13.298 --> 0:44:15.458 named a bunch of guys like it seems like the 0:44:15.978 --> 0:44:20.898 NFL coaching machine factory is churning out tight pants, khaki guys. 0:44:21.298 --> 0:44:25.058 Go find your so, go find a random one. 0:44:25.138 --> 0:44:27.418 Well, you just named like ten guys. Okay, Well give 0:44:27.418 --> 0:44:30.858 me a better, give me a dang good name. And 0:44:31.018 --> 0:44:33.378 I don't want it to be Josh McDaniels. I'm sorry. 0:44:33.418 --> 0:44:36.018 I love Josh McDaniels. I love the guy. I think 0:44:36.018 --> 0:44:38.058 he's a good coach. I don't want it to be him. 0:44:38.618 --> 0:44:40.618 It needs to be somebody that's going to bring this 0:44:40.658 --> 0:44:43.138 offense to the modern era. It's got to be somebody 0:44:43.138 --> 0:44:46.018 that's gonna run something that's innovative. It's got to be 0:44:46.058 --> 0:44:49.098 something that's gonna run somebody, something that's gonna put defenses 0:44:49.098 --> 0:44:50.938 in cone that are gonna leverage Drake. 0:44:50.978 --> 0:44:53.258 So I don't want to overload Drake May with the 0:44:53.298 --> 0:44:55.458 Josh McDaniels offense, But you want to drop him into 0:44:55.458 --> 0:44:58.058 one of these complex schemes. How is it complex? He's 0:44:58.218 --> 0:45:01.458 running RPOs. You're talking about the innovative. 0:45:00.858 --> 0:45:04.338 And that's not complex that none of these kids have 0:45:04.578 --> 0:45:07.458 been doing that since high school. Nowadays, you have high 0:45:07.458 --> 0:45:09.938 school offenses that are running these types of things, like 0:45:10.018 --> 0:45:12.618 he was running this at Myers Park, like you know, 0:45:12.658 --> 0:45:14.978 with the coaches down there at North Carolina. He's running 0:45:14.978 --> 0:45:19.018 this at UNC with their air raids. You know, I 0:45:19.098 --> 0:45:20.458 know they hate when I call it an air raid, 0:45:20.538 --> 0:45:21.258 but it's an air raid. 0:45:21.298 --> 0:45:21.698 Okay. 0:45:21.898 --> 0:45:24.058 You know they've been running it down at North Carolina. 0:45:24.098 --> 0:45:27.178 This is what they run nowadays. They don't run an 0:45:27.178 --> 0:45:29.938 old school Earnhard Perkins offense like the Patriots used to 0:45:30.018 --> 0:45:32.938 run twenty years ago. These are the offenses that these 0:45:32.978 --> 0:45:35.538 young quarterbacks are growing up running, you know, so like 0:45:35.618 --> 0:45:38.258 it's not complex to them to read out an RPO 0:45:38.458 --> 0:45:40.618 or a read option play or to send a guy 0:45:40.658 --> 0:45:43.378 in motion, Like these things aren't complex to these kids anymore. 0:45:43.378 --> 0:45:45.818 This is what they've been doing their whole football lives. 0:45:46.138 --> 0:45:48.458 What is complex to them is we're gonna put you 0:45:48.538 --> 0:45:51.578 under center, We're gonna drop you back seven step drop 0:45:51.818 --> 0:45:55.297 play action, fake turn, back around, make a throw. I 0:45:55.338 --> 0:45:57.538 know that sounds rudimentary to a lot of people that 0:45:57.618 --> 0:46:01.018 have been watching and you know, covering football, and you know, 0:46:01.258 --> 0:46:04.418 observing football for fifty years, to these kids, it's not 0:46:04.938 --> 0:46:07.458 they don't do it. They don't go under center, they 0:46:07.458 --> 0:46:11.018 don't shotgun, they don't play action pass from under center. 0:46:11.338 --> 0:46:13.498 They don't run seven and nine steps. 0:46:13.898 --> 0:46:16.738 So if this is what everybody's running, how hard is 0:46:16.778 --> 0:46:19.058 it to find somebody who runs it as a coach? 0:46:20.298 --> 0:46:23.738 Harder than you think, because you have to It has 0:46:23.818 --> 0:46:26.618 to be the right guy, and the right guy meaning 0:46:26.698 --> 0:46:29.297 what he has to be a good coach, It has 0:46:29.298 --> 0:46:31.418 to be the right guy is not going to be rable, 0:46:31.498 --> 0:46:34.058 So they have to find the right guy to put 0:46:34.098 --> 0:46:37.377 in that position. And with Ben Johnson, what I would 0:46:37.418 --> 0:46:40.618 do is that at that point you definitely need to 0:46:40.698 --> 0:46:45.218 hire a true general manager because he you want the 0:46:45.298 --> 0:46:49.098 general manager to do all of the program building. I'm 0:46:49.098 --> 0:46:50.418 putting it on the general manager. 0:46:50.418 --> 0:46:52.338 I still think you need somebody on the coaching staff 0:46:52.338 --> 0:46:55.098 who can do that too. So you gave me Sean McVay, 0:46:55.298 --> 0:46:58.218 who had Wade Phillips. He has talked about being able 0:46:58.218 --> 0:47:00.818 to help. So you're gonna ask me who Mike Rabel's 0:47:00.858 --> 0:47:06.178 coordinator is. Who is Ben Johnson's Wade Phillips. I'm gonna 0:47:06.218 --> 0:47:08.378 give you two names I don't want to hear. One 0:47:08.458 --> 0:47:10.698 is Luayna Roma. Why not because he's never been a 0:47:10.738 --> 0:47:13.337 head coach. He's never run Okay, that's the whole point 0:47:13.338 --> 0:47:16.938 of having this guy. He was literally very close to 0:47:16.978 --> 0:47:19.498 being a head coach. He's very close, very nice, he's 0:47:20.578 --> 0:47:24.138 a big Wade Phillips Phillips, very close to being a 0:47:24.138 --> 0:47:25.938 head coach or he's been a head coach for like 0:47:25.978 --> 0:47:27.898 a decade. The other name I don't want to hear 0:47:27.938 --> 0:47:32.218 is Robert Sala because, just like we're talking about but 0:47:32.298 --> 0:47:34.098 just to talk to the viewers, just like we're talking 0:47:34.138 --> 0:47:36.658 about building this thing around Drake May on offense, I 0:47:36.698 --> 0:47:38.377 also think you kind of need to do the same 0:47:38.378 --> 0:47:40.978 thing on defense with Christian Gonzalez. I have zero interest 0:47:40.978 --> 0:47:43.578 in turning Christian Gonzalez into Sauce Gardner. That's an insult 0:47:43.618 --> 0:47:46.258 to Christian Gonzales. I want them running man coverages. I 0:47:46.258 --> 0:47:48.778 don't want them doing Seattle three. I want them running 0:47:48.778 --> 0:47:52.058 a big boy defense. And like, is that unfair to say, 0:47:52.098 --> 0:47:54.578 like they should be treating all the conversations around right 0:47:54.578 --> 0:47:57.418 now around Drake May, build it around him, develop him. 0:47:57.738 --> 0:48:00.857 Shouldn't we also be saying the same about Gonzales on defense. Yeah, 0:48:01.578 --> 0:48:03.298 so that's why I'm out on solid all right, So 0:48:03.418 --> 0:48:04.218 no saw I. 0:48:04.418 --> 0:48:06.378 Was Also, he's even getting a head coaching job in 0:48:06.418 --> 0:48:09.418 second or he's going to San Francisco so be their 0:48:09.498 --> 0:48:10.338 defensive coordinator. 0:48:10.378 --> 0:48:13.258 There's no Sela is not coming here. So I want 0:48:13.258 --> 0:48:15.698 a guy who has been a head coach before, who 0:48:15.738 --> 0:48:18.258 has been around this league for a long time. Who 0:48:18.338 --> 0:48:20.538 is because this is what we don't know. Can Ben 0:48:20.578 --> 0:48:22.938 Johnson set up his own program. He's doing none of 0:48:23.018 --> 0:48:25.978 that in Detroit that is filled in spades. It is 0:48:25.978 --> 0:48:28.178 filled in then some by Dan Campbell. 0:48:28.178 --> 0:48:30.818 And Dan Campbell's not calling plays or designing the offense. 0:48:30.898 --> 0:48:34.098 I'm not the number one seed in the NFC. 0:48:35.178 --> 0:48:37.698 That's not entirely his seventh ranked defense in the league, 0:48:37.698 --> 0:48:39.498 and boy, those guys are bought in and. 0:48:39.618 --> 0:48:41.658 The seventh drank defense in the league. Their defense is 0:48:41.658 --> 0:48:44.098 completely falling apart since all the injuries came apart. 0:48:45.378 --> 0:48:46.738 And so there's scoring. 0:48:46.818 --> 0:48:49.058 Yeah, but they're scoring forty points a game to keep 0:48:49.098 --> 0:48:49.938 winning football games. 0:48:49.938 --> 0:48:52.258 And there's guys bought in and it's been sustainable and 0:48:52.298 --> 0:48:53.337 they didn't just do this for. 0:48:53.338 --> 0:48:53.658 What, So. 0:48:55.218 --> 0:48:56.218 Zero credit for that. 0:48:56.498 --> 0:48:59.298 He gets zero credit for the fact that that offense 0:48:59.498 --> 0:49:04.298 is dynamite and they clearly have taken a team Ryan 0:49:04.378 --> 0:49:08.337 Tannehill quarterback ask Jared Goff and has turned him into 0:49:08.338 --> 0:49:11.098 an MVP candidate. And he gets zero credit for that 0:49:11.138 --> 0:49:12.858 because I am not giving any of that credit to 0:49:12.938 --> 0:49:15.738 Dan Campbell. Because Dan Campbell's doing Jack Squad, He's talking 0:49:15.778 --> 0:49:18.618 about knee caps and you know, crying after games. That's 0:49:18.618 --> 0:49:21.738 what Dan Campbell's doing. Ben Johnson is the one that's 0:49:21.778 --> 0:49:24.578 does designing the offense. He's the one that's calling the plays. 0:49:24.698 --> 0:49:27.658 He's the one that's doing things that people have never 0:49:27.698 --> 0:49:31.058 seen before executed at this level as high of a 0:49:31.178 --> 0:49:33.058 level as that what they are doing, like they're running 0:49:33.098 --> 0:49:35.818 hooking ladders for crying out out for forty yard touchdowns, 0:49:35.938 --> 0:49:38.018 like you don't see that every single day. So he's 0:49:38.058 --> 0:49:40.018 the one that's doing all these types of things. So, 0:49:40.098 --> 0:49:43.178 but you're not giving him any credit for the confidence 0:49:43.338 --> 0:49:45.858 and the energy that that offense plays with none. 0:49:47.178 --> 0:49:49.858 Not Like the confidence energy the offense is different than 0:49:49.858 --> 0:49:52.258 building a program. So I flip it back to you, 0:49:52.338 --> 0:49:54.858 Mike Rabel when he was in Tennessee before they screwed 0:49:54.898 --> 0:49:55.937 up and traded AJ Brown. 0:49:55.978 --> 0:50:00.778 Oh okay, so aj Brown did completely tanked the entire ten. Yeah, 0:50:01.018 --> 0:50:04.378 oh my god, tenth tank That program is Ryan Tannehill age. 0:50:04.498 --> 0:50:06.298 They had a top five offense in the league. So 0:50:06.378 --> 0:50:08.098 rabel isn't get credit for a top five offense in 0:50:08.098 --> 0:50:10.458 the league, then I'm fine if he doesn't, But then 0:50:10.498 --> 0:50:13.018 Ben Johnson doesn't get it's an unknown. It's an unknown 0:50:13.058 --> 0:50:16.018 with Ben Johnson. The culture element, the program building element 0:50:16.338 --> 0:50:19.377 is an unknown. He's never had to hire coaches. He's 0:50:19.418 --> 0:50:22.098 never had to like schedule out a full game week. 0:50:22.418 --> 0:50:25.378 He's never had to truly like, yes he does the 0:50:25.378 --> 0:50:27.658 offensive game game, but you've never done that big picture. 0:50:27.738 --> 0:50:30.058 You're saying this like he's drowed Mayo and he's not 0:50:30.138 --> 0:50:33.258 draft Mayo. He's been assistant coach for fourteen years, he's 0:50:33.258 --> 0:50:36.777 been a coordinator for three years. Different because I've been 0:50:36.898 --> 0:50:39.538 But you're saying this like he had and I Rob 0:50:39.698 --> 0:50:41.817 McDaniels was a coach for a long time. 0:50:42.018 --> 0:50:45.498 Yes, Josh mcdaniels's issue as a head coach wasn't what 0:50:45.538 --> 0:50:49.138 you're talking about. Josh mcdaniels's issue with this absolutely was 0:50:49.178 --> 0:50:52.218 his personality. His issue as a head coach was not 0:50:53.258 --> 0:50:56.058 what you're getting at which is the things like you know, 0:50:57.178 --> 0:50:58.778 programmed saying. 0:50:58.658 --> 0:51:01.058 How do you operate within the building day to day 0:51:01.098 --> 0:51:04.578 on a person on a personal person basis, Right, that's 0:51:04.618 --> 0:51:08.178 the That was mcdaniels's problem. That was also from by reports, 0:51:08.178 --> 0:51:09.898 And I don't know if this is true, but by 0:51:09.978 --> 0:51:12.378 reports that was Brian flora is his problem in Miami. 0:51:12.418 --> 0:51:15.258 Took just one player, but it. 0:51:15.258 --> 0:51:19.018 Was personality, right he I think Ryan Fitzpatrick used the 0:51:19.018 --> 0:51:21.978 word that Brian Flores became a dictator that in Miami. 0:51:22.018 --> 0:51:25.698 I'm not so no, that's the okay, we have no 0:51:25.858 --> 0:51:27.978 clue and Flora's has been a coach for a long 0:51:28.018 --> 0:51:30.858 time and there was no indication that players here loved him, 0:51:31.178 --> 0:51:35.138 loved him. There's no We have no idea what Ben 0:51:35.218 --> 0:51:37.418 Johnson could step in and be a dictator. Ben Johnson 0:51:37.418 --> 0:51:39.337 could step in and have no control of the rope. 0:51:39.418 --> 0:51:41.297 Ben Johnson could step in and be the greatest leader 0:51:41.338 --> 0:51:43.817 of all time. We don't know. There's no way to know. 0:51:44.138 --> 0:51:46.818 And after a year of complete uncertainty in terms of 0:51:46.818 --> 0:51:49.418 the direction of the program, to hand it over to 0:51:49.458 --> 0:51:52.418 a guy who is an unknown in that regard to me, 0:51:52.618 --> 0:51:57.178 I'm not saying it's not a risk Worth. It's it's 0:51:57.178 --> 0:52:01.777 not entirely never called the defense. It's not it's not 0:52:01.898 --> 0:52:04.578 red delicious to Red Delicious, but maybe it's red delicious 0:52:04.618 --> 0:52:06.938 to Granny. We're still the apple. No, it's not. 0:52:07.058 --> 0:52:09.018 You're not still in the apple family. You're you're in 0:52:09.058 --> 0:52:12.498 a different fruit like I don't think so. His experience 0:52:12.618 --> 0:52:15.898 pales in comparison to Mayo's. Not only was he an 0:52:15.898 --> 0:52:17.938 assistant coach, he did it the right way. He was 0:52:17.938 --> 0:52:20.938 an assistant coach for ten years. Then he became a coordinator. 0:52:21.098 --> 0:52:23.858 Then he called his own offense, Then he designed his 0:52:23.898 --> 0:52:26.618 own offense, then he game planned his own offense. He 0:52:26.658 --> 0:52:28.898 did all of those different things. And I'm with you. 0:52:28.938 --> 0:52:32.738 If they hire Ben Johnson, they have to hire a 0:52:32.818 --> 0:52:36.458 defensive coordinator who is experienced, who has run the side 0:52:36.458 --> 0:52:39.258 of the football, Patrick Grant. 0:52:39.458 --> 0:52:41.418 But he's not just a guy that's but it's not 0:52:41.458 --> 0:52:43.818 just a guy that's running defense. You who is he 0:52:44.018 --> 0:52:48.138 going to? Why can't you this morning? Why can't he 0:52:48.218 --> 0:52:51.738 hire an associate head coach? Why who? Okay, who probably 0:52:51.858 --> 0:52:56.378 Joe Philben great Joe fill We're put in the organization's 0:52:56.378 --> 0:52:57.338 faith in Joe Philbin. 0:52:57.818 --> 0:53:00.618 No, you're putting the organization's fate in Ben Johnson, like 0:53:00.938 --> 0:53:03.738 you're talking about a guy that's saying how much how 0:53:03.818 --> 0:53:06.338 much a sounding board as someone that can you know, 0:53:06.418 --> 0:53:07.698 give him ideas or in. 0:53:07.658 --> 0:53:11.098 How much of an from Ben mcadu's Joe Filden, because 0:53:11.098 --> 0:53:13.458 that's what Ben mackett they The guy we're describing is 0:53:13.458 --> 0:53:15.857 what Ben McNew I think was supposed to be this year. 0:53:17.298 --> 0:53:18.337 Knew that wasn't enough. 0:53:18.338 --> 0:53:22.378 But Ben mcado also specifically specialized on doing it on offense, 0:53:22.418 --> 0:53:25.298 like he was a senior offensive assistant. I am talking 0:53:25.338 --> 0:53:28.897 about hiring someone you know has done it before. That's 0:53:28.898 --> 0:53:29.857 a true you know. 0:53:31.338 --> 0:53:33.857 So why not hire that guy to be the head 0:53:33.898 --> 0:53:37.738 coach and then the have that guy find the guy 0:53:37.778 --> 0:53:40.258 who can call plays and design plays. Because if you 0:53:40.298 --> 0:53:44.898 get the head coach higher wrong, you you're really in it. Now. 0:53:45.218 --> 0:53:47.817 If you get the offense because you're higher wrong, that's 0:53:47.818 --> 0:53:50.818 not great, but it's easier to change the great. 0:53:51.098 --> 0:53:53.698 You're really under selling that. It's not great. He's gonna 0:53:53.698 --> 0:53:54.898 completely mess up drake man. 0:53:54.938 --> 0:53:57.258 Okay. As opposed to getting the head coaching higher wrong, 0:53:57.418 --> 0:53:59.378 how is that getting the head coaching higher If the 0:53:59.418 --> 0:54:02.618 guy can't establish it, I'll give you Mike McDaniel. Players 0:54:02.618 --> 0:54:05.058 are asking out of Miami left and right, and they 0:54:05.098 --> 0:54:07.338 they do win some games. He's what three and fifteen 0:54:07.458 --> 0:54:10.218 against teams over five hundred. They haven't won a serious 0:54:10.258 --> 0:54:12.538 big boy game as long as he's been there. That's 0:54:12.538 --> 0:54:14.938 different to me. How is that this is the same 0:54:15.018 --> 0:54:19.098 guy because they Mike McDaid with Ben Johnson three years ago. 0:54:19.458 --> 0:54:23.578 It's because I don't think Miami's built their team correctly. 0:54:23.778 --> 0:54:26.218 Miami has built their team from the outside in. I 0:54:26.298 --> 0:54:27.978 want to build the team from the inside out. 0:54:28.738 --> 0:54:30.378 To be okay with that. Yet, what do you kind 0:54:30.378 --> 0:54:32.338 of line do you thinking of? Because Detroit the offensive 0:54:32.378 --> 0:54:34.258 what do you mean he didn't build that. Chris Bielman 0:54:34.258 --> 0:54:37.058 built that. They want the receivers and they want the 0:54:37.178 --> 0:54:39.978 toy They're ridiculous. Why do you think that he knows 0:54:40.018 --> 0:54:42.938 why they're successful? So I'm sorry not having a line 0:54:43.178 --> 0:54:45.538 and their line is not that bad, and their defensive 0:54:45.538 --> 0:54:48.058 line is great. Not having a line is Miami? 0:54:48.178 --> 0:54:48.218 No? 0:54:48.418 --> 0:54:48.738 Come on? 0:54:48.818 --> 0:54:51.178 Their defensive line is not dead gas rush man. They 0:54:51.178 --> 0:54:52.538 can get after the quarterback. 0:54:52.218 --> 0:54:54.018 But every single time they get into a tough game 0:54:54.058 --> 0:54:57.337 against your playoff caliber opponents, they get run on every 0:54:57.338 --> 0:55:00.578 single time. They can't play in cold weather, they can't block, 0:55:00.778 --> 0:55:01.938 they get the quarterback hurt. 0:55:01.938 --> 0:55:05.618 All that being able to That's why they're gonnat this take. 0:55:05.658 --> 0:55:07.658 But I know I'm right. Not being able to play 0:55:07.658 --> 0:55:09.857 in cold weather is in part a reflection on the coach. 0:55:10.178 --> 0:55:13.338 Him doing that ridiculous stuff about wearing the turning the 0:55:14.098 --> 0:55:16.178 temperature down in the bubble and wearing the long sleeve 0:55:16.218 --> 0:55:18.058 shirt and say he's got throw ice cubes at people. 0:55:18.258 --> 0:55:21.098 That's reflection the coach. That's a soft team. They can't go, 0:55:21.698 --> 0:55:23.418 that's a soft team. That's a soft team. That is 0:55:23.418 --> 0:55:24.578 a reflect the coach. 0:55:24.658 --> 0:55:28.018 And if Ben Johnson has learned from Dan Campbell, who 0:55:28.058 --> 0:55:30.418 he's currently under, so I have to assume that is 0:55:30.498 --> 0:55:32.698 who he is learning from. You are telling me that 0:55:32.778 --> 0:55:36.058 the Detroit Lions are a soft football. They're gonna mimic 0:55:36.138 --> 0:55:38.418 that he's gonna be Mike McDaniel. 0:55:38.658 --> 0:55:40.778 That's what I'm asking in the interview. How much of 0:55:40.858 --> 0:55:43.777 Dan Campbell's leadership style do you plan to emulate? But 0:55:43.858 --> 0:55:45.857 it's not even just that can he pull it off? 0:55:45.978 --> 0:55:48.458 There were a lot of guys here that went elsewhere 0:55:48.978 --> 0:55:52.258 and tried to emulate Bill Belichick, but they weren't, Bill Belichick. 0:55:52.338 --> 0:55:54.857 You can't fake the The one thing he's not gonna 0:55:54.858 --> 0:55:58.858 do is faking peronality. He's not gonna fake Dan Campbell's 0:55:58.858 --> 0:56:00.818 person Okay, but that's part of where that buy in. 0:56:00.898 --> 0:56:03.458 That's part of where that toughness comes from. No, the toughness. Also, 0:56:03.538 --> 0:56:06.058 you can't just having Penny Sewell. You can't just ask 0:56:06.138 --> 0:56:09.858 him to come here and bring all the best parts 0:56:09.858 --> 0:56:12.178 of Dan Campbell with him and leave all the parts 0:56:12.218 --> 0:56:14.058 you don't like behind. I don't like any of the 0:56:14.098 --> 0:56:16.978 parts of Dan Campbell. That's the problem. Like I don't care, 0:56:17.098 --> 0:56:20.098 I don't need but if that's his but please don't 0:56:20.098 --> 0:56:22.338 bring Dan camp But you acknowledge it to beginning, the 0:56:22.378 --> 0:56:24.738 program building and the leadership is an important part of it. 0:56:24.938 --> 0:56:27.338 So you're hiring this guy to come build a program, 0:56:27.498 --> 0:56:29.978 and your argument is he's seen this great program build 0:56:30.058 --> 0:56:31.938 under Dan Campbell. If you don't want him to be 0:56:31.978 --> 0:56:34.378 anything like Dan Campbell, then what's the point. 0:56:34.218 --> 0:56:38.418 Because I don't nonnowance between actually executing the plan and 0:56:38.538 --> 0:56:40.858 checking the boxes of what we're talking about from the 0:56:40.898 --> 0:56:43.578 program side of it and personality. I just don't want 0:56:43.578 --> 0:56:46.018 his personality to be like Dan Campbell. I don't care 0:56:46.178 --> 0:56:49.098 if he's he can still do the other stuff without 0:56:49.178 --> 0:56:52.698 being Dan Campbell like that, that's very doable. You don't 0:56:52.738 --> 0:56:54.738 have to have his personality. 0:56:54.098 --> 0:56:56.978 But his personality matters. Again, I go back to to 0:56:56.978 --> 0:57:00.058 to Mike McDaniel, like I don't. 0:56:59.898 --> 0:57:03.298 So you you picked Mike McDaniel, who is probably like 0:57:03.458 --> 0:57:06.338 the worst one out of all this the Shanahan Tree. 0:57:06.178 --> 0:57:08.498 Group, there's one and there he's stuck around. 0:57:08.298 --> 0:57:12.218 Okay, but there's there's other ones that are are excelling. 0:57:12.458 --> 0:57:14.098 But we just have to point to the one guy 0:57:14.098 --> 0:57:18.858 that isn't Like I just you can look at you 0:57:18.858 --> 0:57:20.938 can look at the Dan Campbell's of the world, the 0:57:21.058 --> 0:57:23.898 big time culture builders of the world, and there's plenty 0:57:23.898 --> 0:57:25.418 of guys in Dan Campbell. 0:57:25.298 --> 0:57:27.738 I would say the guy of the Mike Rabel mold 0:57:27.818 --> 0:57:30.978 that is having the least success that we talked about 0:57:30.978 --> 0:57:33.258 as Sean McDermott. And you've wanted the Patriots to be 0:57:33.338 --> 0:57:37.658 the Bills for years now. See I I look at 0:57:37.658 --> 0:57:40.538 the Bills as the apex of what they could be 0:57:40.578 --> 0:57:43.498 with Mike Rabel and no, the Lions are the apex 0:57:43.538 --> 0:57:44.618 of what they could be with Mike Rable. 0:57:44.698 --> 0:57:46.898 No, I disagree. I think the Bills are because the 0:57:47.058 --> 0:57:50.218 Lions are not built. Their offense is not being elevated 0:57:50.218 --> 0:57:53.218 by their quarterback. There are their their scheme in their 0:57:53.578 --> 0:57:54.938 entire thing is elevator. 0:57:54.978 --> 0:57:56.858 So what happens if you put a really good quarterback 0:57:56.898 --> 0:57:57.458 in that scheme? 0:57:58.938 --> 0:58:01.338 Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You take Ben Johnson, 0:58:01.498 --> 0:58:03.178 you bring him here, you put Drake. 0:58:03.058 --> 0:58:06.378 Man, Team Rabel, find an offensive coordinator that has some 0:58:06.418 --> 0:58:09.178 sort of you think they're just done with offensive coordinators. 0:58:09.218 --> 0:58:12.258 There's no more innovative offensive coordinators. There's like, if you 0:58:12.258 --> 0:58:14.858 don't get Ben Johnson, you'll never get an innovator. Ever. Again, 0:58:15.098 --> 0:58:17.618 I think it's possible. You don't try this all. It's 0:58:17.618 --> 0:58:19.538 not how the NFL works. I just haven't heard the name. 0:58:20.018 --> 0:58:22.898 It's not Tommy Rees. I'm sorry you you haven't right. Well, 0:58:23.018 --> 0:58:26.178 the guy for Ben Johnson's not Joe Philbin. I'm sorry, Okay, 0:58:26.258 --> 0:58:29.538 Well I was. That was one name that connected to 0:58:29.778 --> 0:58:31.978 Joe Philbin. They were. Reality is the guys you're looking 0:58:32.018 --> 0:58:34.458 at for rape the guys the guy you're looking at 0:58:34.738 --> 0:58:40.098 to support Ben Johnson needs to be one of those 0:58:40.138 --> 0:58:43.298 household name kind of guys. Because you need a guy 0:58:43.298 --> 0:58:46.378 that he's not just taking over any NFL team. He's 0:58:46.378 --> 0:58:48.898 taking over the New England Patriots. There's a spotlight here, 0:58:49.018 --> 0:58:51.058 there's a pressure here. You're only getting in a few 0:58:51.058 --> 0:58:55.458 other spots. It's not Detroit's in the spotlight. But that's different. 0:58:55.938 --> 0:58:59.018 That team was bad for a long time. The expectations 0:58:59.018 --> 0:59:01.058 he's gonna have to manage her different. You need a 0:59:01.098 --> 0:59:03.578 guy who's been through the ringer, who's been in front 0:59:03.578 --> 0:59:05.738 of one hundred campers, who's been pressed with the tough 0:59:05.818 --> 0:59:08.098 questions to lead him through that. When we talk about 0:59:08.098 --> 0:59:10.698 the guy to support Mike Rabel, we're talking about a 0:59:10.698 --> 0:59:12.418 guy who's a tight ends coach somewhere right now, or 0:59:12.418 --> 0:59:14.258 an offensive line coach, or an assistant this or an 0:59:14.258 --> 0:59:17.018 assistant that is not a household name kind of guy 0:59:17.738 --> 0:59:21.418 that doesn't necessarily make one better or worse, but one 0:59:21.498 --> 0:59:23.298 name should be easier to pull off top of your head, 0:59:23.298 --> 0:59:25.218 and in the other I think. 0:59:25.098 --> 0:59:27.898 It's easier to find than Ben Johnson guy, because the 0:59:27.898 --> 0:59:31.378 Ben Johnson guy is all those types of guys are. 0:59:31.538 --> 0:59:34.898 Let's face it, they failed as head coaches in the 0:59:34.938 --> 0:59:38.018 league and are now just consulting or aiding with guys. 0:59:38.178 --> 0:59:38.978 There's plenty of those. 0:59:39.058 --> 0:59:42.098 There's plenty of coaches that have gotten fired or that aren't, 0:59:42.298 --> 0:59:44.738 you know, directly coaching right now for whatever reason. 0:59:44.978 --> 0:59:48.298 Yeah, I just I hear you. There's probably a Joe 0:59:48.338 --> 0:59:51.698 Brady or someone along those lines that's out there, and 0:59:51.738 --> 0:59:53.818 we are the problems NFL guys. We didn't even go 0:59:53.858 --> 0:59:54.658 to college. Okay. 0:59:54.658 --> 0:59:56.498 But the problem is is that to me, is that 0:59:56.618 --> 0:59:59.378 Drake Mayson a different part of his development than Josh Allen. 0:59:59.498 --> 1:00:02.418 Was Josh Allen when Brian Dable left, was already three 1:00:02.498 --> 1:00:05.498 four years into his development. We're talking about Drake going 1:00:05.538 --> 1:00:09.658 into year two of his development. So your concerns about 1:00:09.658 --> 1:00:12.618 Ben Johnson being inexperienced from the culture side and from 1:00:12.618 --> 1:00:15.978 the team building side, my concern is that the coordinator 1:00:16.018 --> 1:00:18.778 is going to be inexperienced or he's going to be 1:00:19.138 --> 1:00:21.658 a retread, which I have no desire to do. 1:00:21.938 --> 1:00:22.298 Okay. 1:00:22.378 --> 1:00:25.578 So if you hire a college coordinator, or you hire 1:00:25.978 --> 1:00:28.658 a thirty five year old Joe Brady who has really 1:00:28.698 --> 1:00:31.898 never called plays before, never ran offense, he is now 1:00:31.978 --> 1:00:34.698 gonna be paired with a second year quarterback and now 1:00:34.738 --> 1:00:38.338 we're inexperienced. Right, Both quarterback and OC are inexperience. 1:00:38.418 --> 1:00:40.818 It's the quarterback and the coach are inexperienced if it's 1:00:40.818 --> 1:00:43.338 Ben Johnson. But Ben Jones is not inexperienced with calling 1:00:43.418 --> 1:00:45.738 the offense. But there's so much more to it than 1:00:45.778 --> 1:00:50.058 calling the offense. There's so so, so much more. It's 1:00:50.138 --> 1:00:50.658 not the same. 1:00:50.738 --> 1:00:53.938 And why can't we properly support Ben Johnson this time around? 1:00:54.418 --> 1:00:58.138 Why can't we get with with the legitimate front office executive, 1:00:58.258 --> 1:01:02.938 Ray Agnew, who's been around. Okay, Ray Agnew is your 1:01:02.938 --> 1:01:05.138 general manager, which I think is where this is trending 1:01:05.178 --> 1:01:08.738 for Ben Johnson. And you bring in somebody like a 1:01:08.858 --> 1:01:11.458 Joe Philbin who has coached in the league before. I know, 1:01:11.538 --> 1:01:14.578 Joe Philbin isn't the Super Bowl winning coach. If he was, 1:01:14.778 --> 1:01:16.698 he would probably still be a head coach and still 1:01:16.698 --> 1:01:21.258 be Okay. I mean, look, I Wade Phillips is a 1:01:21.258 --> 1:01:24.178 great coach. I think Lou Anamo and Patrick grahmm are too. 1:01:24.218 --> 1:01:26.178 Great defensive coordinator candidate. 1:01:25.938 --> 1:01:29.818 But it's not just about managing the defense. To me, though, 1:01:29.858 --> 1:01:30.218 it is. 1:01:30.538 --> 1:01:32.858 All I want is for him to hire That was 1:01:32.938 --> 1:01:37.418 Draw's mistake. He hired inexperience all over his staff. Grod 1:01:37.458 --> 1:01:40.778 Mayo needed experienced coordinators and not Alex fmpeld had the 1:01:40.858 --> 1:01:43.218 years of service, but it never call plays. I think 1:01:43.298 --> 1:01:46.138 if lou Ana Arrumo comes here with Ben Johnson, lou 1:01:46.178 --> 1:01:48.658 Ana Arumo has been calling a defense for half a decade. 1:01:48.698 --> 1:01:51.698 Now he's going to be head coach defense. He's going 1:01:51.778 --> 1:01:54.738 to have that under wraps. He's not calling plays for 1:01:54.778 --> 1:01:57.578 the first time. He's not DeMarcus Covington in his backyard 1:01:57.658 --> 1:02:01.058 simulating games in the springtime. He's done done it before, 1:02:01.298 --> 1:02:05.218 and he's he's all set. Ben Johnson's got the offense, big, 1:02:05.298 --> 1:02:06.338 who's got the defense? 1:02:07.698 --> 1:02:11.778 That's it? Like, I don't understand where where you're like say, inexperience. 1:02:11.858 --> 1:02:14.978 It's not a bad the day to day Who in 1:02:15.018 --> 1:02:19.058 that building has run an organization day to day? Agnew Hassen. 1:02:19.178 --> 1:02:21.338 So then why does any other then why does any 1:02:21.418 --> 1:02:24.098 other team hire our first time head coach? Like if if, 1:02:24.338 --> 1:02:27.058 if it never works with Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay, 1:02:27.058 --> 1:02:29.218 who was like thirty three when he got the Giants. 1:02:29.378 --> 1:02:31.898 Can be done the right way. I think there is 1:02:31.938 --> 1:02:33.578 a right way to do that. There is a right 1:02:33.618 --> 1:02:35.778 time in place to do that. McVeigh made a lot 1:02:35.778 --> 1:02:38.578 of sense that kind of had some pieces in place already. 1:02:38.738 --> 1:02:41.898 They brought in They brought in Wade Phillips. I think 1:02:41.938 --> 1:02:43.978 some of these other teams they had a strong culture 1:02:44.058 --> 1:02:47.018 in place, right If it had so, I was I 1:02:48.018 --> 1:02:49.738 last year would have made more sense than this year 1:02:49.778 --> 1:02:52.018 because the Belichick culture was in place and you had 1:02:52.058 --> 1:02:54.058 those leaders in the locker room and you had those guys. 1:02:54.338 --> 1:02:55.978 It would have made more sense because you kind of 1:02:56.018 --> 1:02:58.898 hope Ben Johnson piggybacks off of that. Now you need 1:02:58.938 --> 1:03:01.338 a full in total reset, and so I think you 1:03:01.418 --> 1:03:04.178 want somebody who has proven in the past that they 1:03:04.258 --> 1:03:08.058 can get that out of an organization. Why do you 1:03:08.138 --> 1:03:11.498 want to ruin my fun because it's not what it's about. 1:03:11.578 --> 1:03:15.018 It's not about you having fun watching film on Monday 1:03:15.018 --> 1:03:17.298 with your pants off. It's about getting back to a 1:03:17.338 --> 1:03:17.898 super Bowl. 1:03:19.058 --> 1:03:21.258 Because scoring thirty a game with Ben Johnson isn't going 1:03:21.298 --> 1:03:23.058 to get them back to a super Bowl. 1:03:23.538 --> 1:03:25.218 Wats a team in the league score thirty game, don't 1:03:25.218 --> 1:03:27.498 get to Super Bowl? Okay, well, lots of team only one, 1:03:28.178 --> 1:03:30.778 only one game, and it doesn't matter exactly. We take 1:03:30.898 --> 1:03:32.698 if you score thirty game for one year, but the 1:03:32.698 --> 1:03:34.818 culture sucks and everybody wants out and you have to 1:03:34.818 --> 1:03:35.378 blow the whole thing. 1:03:35.538 --> 1:03:37.578 Come on, there's a scare thirty plus a game with 1:03:37.618 --> 1:03:39.698 the culture sucking that doesn't happen. 1:03:40.498 --> 1:03:42.858 That doesn't happen. How many points of games Miami scoring 1:03:43.058 --> 1:03:45.818 here hurt when two has been in? How many points 1:03:45.818 --> 1:03:48.138 of games Miami is Miami been scoring? They score a 1:03:48.218 --> 1:03:50.818 lot of points. I just I'm not all soft to 1:03:50.858 --> 1:03:53.578 go back to the top. That's because the coach to 1:03:53.658 --> 1:03:56.778 go back to the top. Yes, I don't think you 1:03:56.818 --> 1:03:59.098 want I don't think this is I don't think Ben 1:03:59.178 --> 1:04:01.938 Johnson's a bad higher. I don't think Ben Johnson's bad 1:04:01.978 --> 1:04:04.378 higher said, it's such a top take. You want your 1:04:04.498 --> 1:04:06.218 your hard nosed football guy. 1:04:06.458 --> 1:04:09.178 If you see Mike Rabel and training can't put on 1:04:09.258 --> 1:04:12.578 the pads and get into the trenches and rush the passer. 1:04:12.458 --> 1:04:14.258 On the sky. I don't want the coach too. 1:04:16.538 --> 1:04:19.298 You want him to say and his introductory press conference 1:04:19.338 --> 1:04:21.498 that we're gonna start biting knee caps and. 1:04:21.898 --> 1:04:23.458 No, because I don't want him to be a fake Dan. 1:04:24.418 --> 1:04:26.538 I wanted to go up. Yes, I'll say I wouldn't 1:04:26.618 --> 1:04:28.458 say we're gonna be a tough, physical football team. We're 1:04:28.458 --> 1:04:31.258 gonna be accountable. There's gonna be leadership, and we're gonna 1:04:31.258 --> 1:04:33.058 build this thing back up the right way. That's what 1:04:33.058 --> 1:04:36.298 I want to see. You shortcuts, no shortcuts. If they win, 1:04:36.938 --> 1:04:39.298 if they win every game twenty eight to seventeen, great, 1:04:39.618 --> 1:04:42.738 that's awesome because they're winning the games. I don't care 1:04:42.778 --> 1:04:45.738 about style points. Nobody should care about style points. You 1:04:45.858 --> 1:04:48.778 covered a Bill Belichick team. You watched a Bill Belichick 1:04:48.778 --> 1:04:53.498 team for your entire care stop points on defense as 1:04:53.578 --> 1:04:55.178 much a they had him on offense. Don't you forget 1:04:55.378 --> 1:04:57.618 you can get style points on defense too. Here's my 1:04:57.778 --> 1:05:00.178 point I think you are. Here's I think you are. 1:05:00.178 --> 1:05:02.538 Here's my point. I don't think Ben Johnson would be 1:05:02.618 --> 1:05:05.178 a bad higher because he is what's best for Drake May. 1:05:05.618 --> 1:05:07.578 Is he what's best for the entire organization. I don't 1:05:07.578 --> 1:05:09.738 nobody's what's best for Drake May. But if you hire 1:05:09.778 --> 1:05:13.738 Ben Johnson, yes, you have not answered the most pressing 1:05:13.858 --> 1:05:17.058 questions of the girod Mayo era. Those are still unknowns. 1:05:17.658 --> 1:05:20.378 Maybe they get better under Ben Johnson, but they are 1:05:20.418 --> 1:05:24.378 still unknowns. A better coordinator than You're not hiring him 1:05:24.378 --> 1:05:28.058 to be a coordinator a coordinator, hiring him to be 1:05:28.138 --> 1:05:32.338 a co and I'm hiring him to ride to the 1:05:32.338 --> 1:05:37.138 football team game. Hey, buck stops with him. He is 1:05:37.178 --> 1:05:37.738 the boss. 1:05:37.898 --> 1:05:40.418 So Kyle Shannan's a shitty head coach, is what you're saying. 1:05:40.538 --> 1:05:42.818 Sean McVay is not a good head coach. Kevin O'Connell's 1:05:42.898 --> 1:05:45.298 I think Sean McVay, none of these guys. Matt Lafour 1:05:45.378 --> 1:05:46.778 is not a good h so, okay, hang on, none 1:05:46.818 --> 1:05:47.938 of these guys figured it out. 1:05:47.978 --> 1:05:50.258 I've said for a long time, I think Kyle Shanahan's overrated. 1:05:50.338 --> 1:05:51.818 I've said that. I'm on the record with that. I 1:05:51.858 --> 1:05:53.778 will stand by that in the Super Bowl every other 1:05:54.538 --> 1:05:56.898 who else did you say there before McVeigh Because I'll 1:05:56.898 --> 1:05:59.618 give you my take on I like O'Connor. Let's see 1:05:59.618 --> 1:06:00.938 what he can do. I think it helps that he 1:06:01.018 --> 1:06:04.778 is Brian Flores. O'Connell might be a culture builder. O'Connell 1:06:04.858 --> 1:06:08.098 might not. I don't know whether he is or not. 1:06:08.218 --> 1:06:10.338 I just don't think taking that risk right now is 1:06:10.378 --> 1:06:14.298 the best option with Mike Rabel available on Sean McVay. 1:06:14.698 --> 1:06:16.778 A couple of things. Sean McVay is the unicorn in 1:06:16.778 --> 1:06:21.258 my opinion, right is Sean McVay the ceilingers he the 1:06:21.298 --> 1:06:23.258 exception of the rule. I think he might be the 1:06:23.258 --> 1:06:26.058 exception of the rule. In expecting Ben Johnson to be 1:06:26.058 --> 1:06:28.578 Sean McVay might be fools Erron. Why is Sean McVay 1:06:28.618 --> 1:06:30.258 the exception of the rule? Wise he had the successity 1:06:30.298 --> 1:06:32.818 out one. I think his time with Wade Phillips was 1:06:32.898 --> 1:06:35.498 very important, and that was very important his development as 1:06:35.538 --> 1:06:38.058 a head coach as a leader of a football program. 1:06:38.218 --> 1:06:40.018 So you tell me who he's gonna learn that from, 1:06:40.058 --> 1:06:41.818 It's not loui An Rumo, because he doesn't have the 1:06:41.898 --> 1:06:45.658 experience in that regard that that Wade Phillips did. The 1:06:45.698 --> 1:06:48.578 other thing, it took time. It took Sean McVay a 1:06:48.578 --> 1:06:51.138 few years to get to where he is now. Is 1:06:51.218 --> 1:06:56.338 Ben Johnson not really? Yes, it did. They got that 1:06:56.538 --> 1:06:59.458 boost they had in eighteen then they kind of fell 1:06:59.498 --> 1:07:01.698 back down and he'd have built it back up again. 1:07:02.578 --> 1:07:06.738 Is Ben Johnson going to have that time in New England? 1:07:06.818 --> 1:07:10.098 In terms of pressure on the organization? There might not 1:07:10.178 --> 1:07:12.698 be two teams that are more polar opposite than the 1:07:12.698 --> 1:07:15.578 New England Patriots and the Los Angeles Rams. Is Ben 1:07:15.658 --> 1:07:18.218 Johnson going to have the time to learn what he 1:07:18.298 --> 1:07:21.138 needs to learn. Robert Kraft said the other day he 1:07:21.178 --> 1:07:22.858 still thinks straw and you know, some of this might 1:07:22.858 --> 1:07:24.938 have been playing policies, but he said he thinks straw, 1:07:25.138 --> 1:07:27.818 you know, in time can get there. But they needed 1:07:27.818 --> 1:07:31.098 to turn this thing around fast. Is Ben Johnson gonna 1:07:31.098 --> 1:07:33.258 be afforded the time that he needs that Sean McVay 1:07:33.298 --> 1:07:34.778 was afforded to get the where he needs to be. 1:07:34.978 --> 1:07:37.258 I think most coaches, most guys can get to this 1:07:37.378 --> 1:07:40.298 level if given the time, can be decent. The NFL 1:07:40.338 --> 1:07:43.898 is a patience problem. But is that guy getting that 1:07:43.978 --> 1:07:44.458 time here? 1:07:44.698 --> 1:07:46.458 So the difference to me and then I do want 1:07:46.498 --> 1:07:48.938 to open it up because we're gonna rant and rave 1:07:49.018 --> 1:07:51.698 about this in circles forever. And I should also mention 1:07:51.818 --> 1:07:54.138 for the seventeenth time, you're gonna end up getting your 1:07:54.138 --> 1:07:55.978 wish because Mike Vrabel is gonna be the next coach 1:07:55.978 --> 1:07:58.178 of the Patriots. Just my opinion, but I think that 1:07:58.178 --> 1:07:59.338 that's what's gonna happen anyway. 1:07:59.378 --> 1:08:00.978 So this is well, then that's all the pressure on 1:08:01.058 --> 1:08:02.698 me because you if he doesn't work out, you get 1:08:02.738 --> 1:08:04.538 to tell me I told you so all you want 1:08:04.618 --> 1:08:07.818 when freaking you know, and if he doesn't work out, 1:08:07.818 --> 1:08:10.218 O Larry and Curly to be his offensive coordinator. Hang on, 1:08:10.258 --> 1:08:11.898 if we're going by age, let me give you a name. 1:08:12.018 --> 1:08:13.658 Let me give you a name. This could really be 1:08:13.698 --> 1:08:16.338 for either of them. Okay, so hang on Kyle Flood, 1:08:16.898 --> 1:08:19.777 Oh my gosh, like, what what do you wanted? 1:08:19.898 --> 1:08:22.737 Let's just run, Like, why don't we go back into 1:08:22.818 --> 1:08:24.497 nineteen forty and run the week? 1:08:24.497 --> 1:08:28.057 You know Kyle? Yes, I know Kyle Floder, the offense coordinator. 1:08:28.378 --> 1:08:31.097 I don't know where he was now, Okay, with Miami. 1:08:31.778 --> 1:08:33.458 I think you're thinking of somebody else. I don't think so. 1:08:33.617 --> 1:08:35.777 This is actually so. I wouldn't hire a Scott. Oh no, 1:08:35.818 --> 1:08:37.577 he was in the NFL very briefly. He was with 1:08:37.617 --> 1:08:43.137 the Falcons. Okay. He has been Steve Sarkesian's offensive coordinator 1:08:43.138 --> 1:08:46.738 at Texas since twenty twenty one. It's fifty three years old. 1:08:46.937 --> 1:08:49.378 All right, it's not that old. I'll take it. I 1:08:49.378 --> 1:08:51.137 don't know that i'd hire him, but like my point, 1:08:51.178 --> 1:08:52.977 like you can go down all these different rabbit holes. 1:08:53.018 --> 1:08:56.577 There's more people available at coaching level than you realize. Okay, well, 1:08:56.737 --> 1:08:58.577 one more name, Holman Wiggins, because I have to bring 1:08:58.657 --> 1:09:01.017 him up every time in Alabama, the one guy that's 1:09:01.018 --> 1:09:04.617 saving for whatever reason when he's at A and M Now, yeah, okay, 1:09:04.697 --> 1:09:07.737 so you you we digress because we're going to argue 1:09:07.737 --> 1:09:11.657 about this in circles. If this process continues, we're going 1:09:11.697 --> 1:09:13.897 to continue to argue about this in circles. I don't 1:09:13.897 --> 1:09:14.937 think it's continuing that long. 1:09:15.058 --> 1:09:17.577 I don't think so either. So that's where we're at 1:09:17.617 --> 1:09:22.298 with the cord, the coaches. It's no wrong answer in 1:09:22.298 --> 1:09:26.977 my opinion, but I definitely I just want to see 1:09:27.058 --> 1:09:31.497 this Patriots team and this Patriots offense specifically. I would 1:09:31.537 --> 1:09:35.497 like to see the Patriots modernize and innovate on offense. 1:09:35.817 --> 1:09:38.177 I think that they've tried it for too long now 1:09:38.418 --> 1:09:41.458 to run schemes that were twenty years old, right, and 1:09:41.537 --> 1:09:43.418 I think that they need to get into a scheme 1:09:43.937 --> 1:09:46.657 that is going to bring Drake May along and it's 1:09:46.657 --> 1:09:48.857 gonna do all that sort of thing. So I think 1:09:48.897 --> 1:09:50.537 Ben Johnson is a guy for the time and let 1:09:50.577 --> 1:09:52.258 me that. 1:09:52.178 --> 1:09:54.017 Would be one of my first questions to Mike Rabel. 1:09:54.098 --> 1:09:57.258 That really the question, what's your plan on offense? And 1:09:57.298 --> 1:10:00.338 if he says, Josh McDaniels are gonna turn Drake May 1:10:00.338 --> 1:10:02.577 and or Tom Brady, I would be hesitant and you 1:10:02.697 --> 1:10:04.777 take a lot longer look at it if he says, 1:10:04.817 --> 1:10:07.378 you know, I was in Cleveland and I kind of, 1:10:07.497 --> 1:10:09.817 you know, networked around the league, and I here's some 1:10:09.857 --> 1:10:12.418 guys I have that are up and coming and they 1:10:12.497 --> 1:10:15.378 worked in these systems in Detroit and San Francisco and 1:10:15.458 --> 1:10:17.577 Green Bay, and I'd like to bring them on and 1:10:17.657 --> 1:10:21.017 kind of get them started. Then there you go. Then 1:10:21.058 --> 1:10:24.178 that like, I don't think Mike, I don't think it's 1:10:24.178 --> 1:10:26.857 safe to assume Mike Rabel won't go for that more 1:10:26.897 --> 1:10:29.497 modernized offense. It might not be putting the right tackle 1:10:29.537 --> 1:10:37.497 in motion, but happy there's a happy medium between that 1:10:37.817 --> 1:10:41.017 and you know, the old school Josh McDaniels off. 1:10:41.058 --> 1:10:42.418 So the last point I want to make on Ben 1:10:42.458 --> 1:10:44.258 Johnson and then I promise for there's a lot of 1:10:44.258 --> 1:10:45.017 emails and calls. 1:10:45.058 --> 1:10:46.057 I know, I see you all there. 1:10:46.098 --> 1:10:47.657 I'm sorry, but we had to get this off our 1:10:47.737 --> 1:10:49.577 chest because we've been arguing about this off the air 1:10:49.617 --> 1:10:53.178 for three days. So now this is fun because I 1:10:53.178 --> 1:10:55.017 don't like that we yelled at each other. I don't 1:10:55.058 --> 1:10:55.458 like to yell. 1:10:55.577 --> 1:10:56.897 I do like that we yelled at each other. 1:10:57.018 --> 1:11:00.017 But the last thing I would say about Ben Johnson 1:11:00.298 --> 1:11:03.657 in support of him is that with Girodmeo, one of 1:11:03.657 --> 1:11:06.577 my biggest concerns going in and what ended up happening, 1:11:07.098 --> 1:11:10.777 was that even though he was a defensive guy, he 1:11:10.817 --> 1:11:14.577 didn't have the experience to truly own the defense right 1:11:14.697 --> 1:11:16.937 in terms of being a coordinator and a play caller 1:11:16.978 --> 1:11:19.378 before where the defensive side of the ball was going 1:11:19.458 --> 1:11:22.937 to be. You know, Demico, Ryans, Sean McDermott like, this 1:11:22.978 --> 1:11:23.817 is my defense. 1:11:24.098 --> 1:11:25.977 He didn't have the ownership of the defense, and I 1:11:25.978 --> 1:11:27.338 don't think they wanted him to. I don't think that 1:11:27.378 --> 1:11:28.298 was ever the plan, right. 1:11:28.378 --> 1:11:30.178 So that's why they're gonna hire a vaible because they 1:11:30.218 --> 1:11:32.617 want the CEO. They saw it with Bill. I think 1:11:32.617 --> 1:11:33.738 they saw it with Parcels. 1:11:33.817 --> 1:11:37.018 I think they want that guy, even if Rabel is 1:11:37.018 --> 1:11:39.617 the CEO. Yeah, I want him hands on with the 1:11:39.657 --> 1:11:42.138 defense like Mayo wasn't right. I want him doing what 1:11:42.178 --> 1:11:44.418 Bill did and going over the linebacker huddle and getting 1:11:44.418 --> 1:11:46.378 on the white board. And I want the same from 1:11:46.418 --> 1:11:48.977 Ben Johnson. On the offense, he was sinking and so 1:11:49.537 --> 1:11:52.937 he didn't. I don't believe he was able to really 1:11:53.258 --> 1:11:56.298 sink his teeth into the defense the way that maybe 1:11:56.338 --> 1:12:00.058 he envisioned doing because he didn't realize the breath of 1:12:00.098 --> 1:12:02.657 the job. He didn't realize all of the other things 1:12:02.657 --> 1:12:04.697 that were going to come with the job. Now, when 1:12:04.697 --> 1:12:08.817 you hire Ben Johnson to be your coach, you know 1:12:09.418 --> 1:12:11.977 that you're hiring the whiz kid, right, So you're hiring 1:12:12.018 --> 1:12:14.617 a play caller. You're hiring him to run your offense. 1:12:14.777 --> 1:12:17.817 So then you have to properly support him to allow 1:12:17.897 --> 1:12:20.338 him to do what he does better. Well, you need 1:12:20.378 --> 1:12:22.258 to make sure that the job doesn't suddenly become too 1:12:22.298 --> 1:12:23.897 big for him. And there's no way to know until 1:12:23.897 --> 1:12:25.737 he's in it. Like I'm not saying he is or 1:12:25.737 --> 1:12:27.098 he is, and I'm saying there's no way to know. 1:12:27.418 --> 1:12:29.977 And that's the risk in hiring him. If he knew, great, 1:12:30.018 --> 1:12:32.378 he'd be the obvious choice. And that's why it sucks 1:12:32.378 --> 1:12:34.338 that Brian day Ball went back to New York because 1:12:34.338 --> 1:12:36.617 I think we'd both probably he's sitting here pounding the 1:12:36.617 --> 1:12:39.897 table for Brian Daball if he was available. So with 1:12:40.018 --> 1:12:43.338 in with Rabel, yeah, you have to find like he's 1:12:43.378 --> 1:12:45.817 going to manage the organization, he's gonna be involved at 1:12:45.817 --> 1:12:47.897 the defense. But you don't want him being hands on 1:12:47.978 --> 1:12:50.137 with the offense. You've got to find somebody who could 1:12:50.178 --> 1:12:52.058 do that and do it at a level that's appropriate 1:12:52.098 --> 1:12:56.017 to the asset that you have in Drake may fair enough. 1:12:56.138 --> 1:13:00.378 I last thing it just with with Mayo when it 1:13:00.458 --> 1:13:05.697 came to his firing, yeap. Ultimately, I believe what got 1:13:05.737 --> 1:13:09.777 him fired was the messaging coming out of the building 1:13:09.937 --> 1:13:12.737 right and just, and I think within the building right 1:13:12.777 --> 1:13:16.737 in just the control of the situation. If he if 1:13:16.737 --> 1:13:19.657 it was just the football, as bad as the football was, 1:13:19.697 --> 1:13:21.817 Don't get me wrong, because we lived it. It was 1:13:21.857 --> 1:13:24.937 bad as bad as the football was. If he had 1:13:24.978 --> 1:13:28.017 controlled the messaging in and out of the building, the 1:13:28.058 --> 1:13:31.497 press conferences, the july of eye of it all right, 1:13:31.497 --> 1:13:35.057 if right, if he's able to control all of that, 1:13:35.098 --> 1:13:36.737 I think he would have gotten the second season. I 1:13:37.298 --> 1:13:38.897 think you would have gotten an opportunity to grow into 1:13:38.897 --> 1:13:42.218 the job. But for me personally, because as you know, 1:13:42.338 --> 1:13:44.817 I'm more on the x's and NO'SE than on the 1:13:44.817 --> 1:13:48.097 culture side with the x's and no's. If I felt 1:13:48.138 --> 1:13:53.057 like Drod Mayo was a great defensive coordinator, not necessarily 1:13:53.138 --> 1:13:56.537 a great head coach yet, but a great defensive coordinator 1:13:56.697 --> 1:13:59.097 that could run and own that side of the football, 1:13:59.378 --> 1:14:01.058 then I would have been open to giving him a 1:14:01.098 --> 1:14:04.218 second season. But he never showed that he had the 1:14:04.298 --> 1:14:06.977 chops to do that. He never took ownership of the defense, 1:14:07.258 --> 1:14:10.338 and he never gave us any indication that what they 1:14:10.338 --> 1:14:12.537 were doing on defense was gonna work, whether it was 1:14:12.577 --> 1:14:14.857 the fundamentals of the defense or it was the scheme. 1:14:15.298 --> 1:14:18.937 It never took on a Girodmeo identity where I could 1:14:18.978 --> 1:14:21.497 say and point we don't even be right, but we 1:14:21.537 --> 1:14:25.057 can't point my finger to and say that is cool, 1:14:25.218 --> 1:14:28.458 that is neat, that is good, that sound, let's keep 1:14:28.497 --> 1:14:31.017 doing that. They never got to that point on defense. 1:14:31.697 --> 1:14:34.218 I don't know if Ben Johnson's gonna be ready to 1:14:34.298 --> 1:14:36.458 do all the things that you're talking about, which you're valid. 1:14:36.497 --> 1:14:39.098 I opened the show saying all that was valid. 1:14:40.018 --> 1:14:41.737 And let me be clear, I'm not saying you can't. 1:14:41.937 --> 1:14:43.777 I'm just saying it's an unknown and that's the risk, 1:14:43.857 --> 1:14:46.817 and it's you're not answering the biggest questions of the 1:14:46.857 --> 1:14:48.177 Dard Mayo er. You're enough. 1:14:48.378 --> 1:14:49.857 I don't know if Ben Johnson can do that kind 1:14:49.897 --> 1:14:52.298 of stuff right. The difference between him and Girod Mayo. 1:14:52.777 --> 1:14:55.138 I know for a fact the offense is gonna rock, right, 1:14:55.218 --> 1:14:57.857 you know imally it's gonna be clean. So I'm not 1:14:57.897 --> 1:15:00.777 gonna be worried about what does this guy do well? 1:15:01.058 --> 1:15:02.458 Because that's what it got to at the end of 1:15:02.537 --> 1:15:05.458 girodd I remember, I think it was on Unfiltered somebody 1:15:05.497 --> 1:15:08.497 called in and the four of us were asked, what 1:15:08.577 --> 1:15:09.418 does Girod. 1:15:09.138 --> 1:15:12.138 Mayo do well? Dead silence right, We did not have 1:15:12.138 --> 1:15:14.218 an answer. We thought it was controlling the locker room, 1:15:14.258 --> 1:15:15.657 and then we kind of found out late that that 1:15:15.857 --> 1:15:17.737 was it. No, like I will be able to say 1:15:17.737 --> 1:15:19.737 Ben Johnson kicks out, this might be the best way 1:15:19.777 --> 1:15:22.057 to put off. I think if you hire Ben Johnson, 1:15:23.897 --> 1:15:25.817 like if you hire either way, it's an upgrade. There's 1:15:25.817 --> 1:15:27.577 a reason these two are the top two guys available. 1:15:28.298 --> 1:15:31.577 If you hire Ben Johnson, you're steeled. You're still dealing 1:15:31.577 --> 1:15:34.458 with the biggest ifs of the drawd Mao era. If 1:15:34.458 --> 1:15:37.458 you hire Mike Rabel, you're still dealing with the biggest 1:15:37.497 --> 1:15:40.418 IFFs of the end, the very end last two years 1:15:40.418 --> 1:15:42.737 of the Bill Belichick era. So basically, where do you 1:15:42.777 --> 1:15:44.058 want to be do you want to be at the 1:15:44.138 --> 1:15:47.017 end of the Belichick and Rabel's not as good as Belichick. Obviously, 1:15:47.138 --> 1:15:51.338 Belichick is the program builder maybe in any sport ever, 1:15:52.537 --> 1:15:56.098 at least professional sports. But like, do you want to 1:15:56.138 --> 1:15:58.458 deal with questions about the offense or do you want 1:15:58.458 --> 1:16:00.418 to deal with questions about the culture and the direction 1:16:00.577 --> 1:16:01.338 inside the building? 1:16:02.338 --> 1:16:06.097 Confidence it's important to have when you're on the road. 1:16:06.138 --> 1:16:09.697 With Bridgestone tires on your car, truck, suv, or minivan, 1:16:10.058 --> 1:16:13.617 You're riding on tires you can trust. Bridgestone tires are 1:16:13.657 --> 1:16:15.817 engineered to give you a peace of mind so you 1:16:15.857 --> 1:16:18.258 can focus on and enjoying the journey. So whether you're 1:16:18.298 --> 1:16:21.897 on your morning commute, across country road trip, or relaxing 1:16:21.978 --> 1:16:25.218 Sunday drive, Bridgestone tires will be with your wherever, with 1:16:25.298 --> 1:16:29.218 you wherever life's roads may lead. 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I know it's a 1:17:11.098 --> 1:17:13.657 furniture part of it. It's no, I thought it was 1:17:13.697 --> 1:17:16.737 the opposite pole. I don't even know stuff that holds 1:17:17.018 --> 1:17:21.418 starts with you. You acted like I was crazy for 1:17:21.418 --> 1:17:25.258 not knowing that I've heard it is. The upholstery is 1:17:25.258 --> 1:17:29.257 the work of providing furniture, especially seats with padding, springs, webbing, 1:17:29.338 --> 1:17:33.458 and fabric or leather covers. The word also refers to 1:17:33.458 --> 1:17:37.657 the materials used to upholster something. Okay, and that's that 1:17:37.697 --> 1:17:40.058 all right. Let's get to what's William Shakespeare famous for. 1:17:40.418 --> 1:17:43.378 Let's get to the phones, and hopefully everybody's hung on, 1:17:43.378 --> 1:17:45.137 because I know we've been leaving you on hold. 1:17:45.338 --> 1:17:46.017 Based on YouTube. 1:17:46.018 --> 1:17:48.218 I think the people enjoyed it, all right, Patty is 1:17:48.218 --> 1:17:49.497 an aguon what's up, Patty? 1:17:51.058 --> 1:17:51.617 What's going on? 1:17:51.697 --> 1:17:52.057 Gentlemen? 1:17:52.058 --> 1:17:53.897 Ev, and I just got to say to you that 1:17:54.058 --> 1:17:57.858 was a beautiful transition to the ad. First and foremost, 1:17:58.737 --> 1:18:00.178 I want to go over a couple of things, and 1:18:00.218 --> 1:18:02.697 then you know, it's off season, so I'm gonna end 1:18:02.697 --> 1:18:06.617 with a couple questions, as I always do. We had 1:18:06.617 --> 1:18:09.258 a caller call in to pee you yesterday saying how 1:18:09.897 --> 1:18:11.977 he'd be happy was either guy. And I'm kind of 1:18:11.978 --> 1:18:15.977 in that same boat. If I brutally honest, I am 1:18:16.058 --> 1:18:18.617 leaning more towards Brabil and it does I get a 1:18:18.617 --> 1:18:20.338 side with Alex. It has to do with a little 1:18:20.338 --> 1:18:23.537 bit of the unknown. But I also like Ev and 1:18:23.537 --> 1:18:27.017 I I think Brabel is smart enough to know the 1:18:27.098 --> 1:18:29.817 kind of asset that Drake May is and I mean 1:18:29.857 --> 1:18:31.537 a piece of smart does he thinks he is and 1:18:31.577 --> 1:18:34.057 everyone thinks he is. He's gonna see the talent and 1:18:34.098 --> 1:18:38.057 knows that he that's that's the you know, that's your 1:18:38.098 --> 1:18:41.937 ace of space, That's that's your trump card, that's that's 1:18:41.978 --> 1:18:44.098 that's your lottery ticket. That's the guy that's gonna bring 1:18:44.178 --> 1:18:44.537 it home. 1:18:44.617 --> 1:18:44.817 You know. 1:18:45.497 --> 1:18:47.497 Great way to put it, Patty, great way to put it. 1:18:48.058 --> 1:18:51.738 And and I like I do like I would parallel 1:18:51.937 --> 1:18:54.777 him more with parcels than with Belichick, because I think 1:18:54.817 --> 1:18:56.817 you I I think everyone in the media is going 1:18:56.897 --> 1:18:59.977 to eat up Rable at the podium because he's gonna 1:19:00.018 --> 1:19:02.497 have some smart ass remarks and be you know, a 1:19:02.497 --> 1:19:06.137 little stardonic and sarcastic and but but that has nothing 1:19:06.138 --> 1:19:08.098 to do with like the product on the field. I 1:19:08.178 --> 1:19:10.298 just like every other fan, I want the product on 1:19:10.298 --> 1:19:11.977 the field to be better, and I think with either 1:19:12.018 --> 1:19:14.218 of these two guys, it's going to improve within a 1:19:14.258 --> 1:19:17.777 couple of years, all right, So I want to I 1:19:17.817 --> 1:19:21.017 want some uh, I want some input on some players. 1:19:21.258 --> 1:19:23.857 And the first Alex, get your pen ready, because I 1:19:23.857 --> 1:19:25.298 want you to write it down so they don't forget. 1:19:25.418 --> 1:19:27.137 I'm on my computer in front of me today. 1:19:27.218 --> 1:19:30.378 Saw all right, there you go, buddy. So the first 1:19:30.537 --> 1:19:33.378 guy I want to know, or it's only one player. 1:19:33.378 --> 1:19:35.098 But then I have a question on our personnel. So 1:19:35.218 --> 1:19:37.058 I wanted to get your guys' opinions on poon A 1:19:37.138 --> 1:19:39.817 Ford if we're gonna kind of run the same the 1:19:39.857 --> 1:19:43.097 similar defense that we've been running for the past, you know, 1:19:43.338 --> 1:19:47.497 however many years it's been as a nose tackle. I 1:19:47.577 --> 1:19:50.817 think he's a good player. I think, honestly, I'll want 1:19:50.817 --> 1:19:53.817 to just kind of flush these turds like Jelani Tavai 1:19:54.098 --> 1:19:58.218 and Devin gotschat on the toilet and cut some of 1:19:58.218 --> 1:20:01.218 this dead weight. And do you guys think that's question one? 1:20:01.338 --> 1:20:04.697 Question two is some of the contracts that we signed 1:20:04.777 --> 1:20:09.977 last offseason, do you think not just cutting guys, but 1:20:10.018 --> 1:20:12.937 do you see us possibly moving on, like trying to 1:20:12.978 --> 1:20:16.017 trade some of these guys with either guy coming in 1:20:16.058 --> 1:20:19.178 with Johnson or Vrabel coming in. If if it's one 1:20:19.178 --> 1:20:21.458 of those two guys, and I'll take it off air, 1:20:21.777 --> 1:20:25.258 And who are those guys? If we do cut ties 1:20:25.338 --> 1:20:26.897 with some of these players that we signed the long 1:20:26.978 --> 1:20:29.338 term deals last year, that's all I got. I'll take 1:20:29.338 --> 1:20:29.697 it off air. 1:20:29.737 --> 1:20:30.657 Guys. 1:20:31.018 --> 1:20:35.497 Yeah, I definitely believe that some of those circle the 1:20:35.497 --> 1:20:41.338 Wagons Belichick era, Girodmeo era guys aren't necessarily safe if 1:20:41.577 --> 1:20:43.178 with this new head coach, because it's not gonna be 1:20:43.258 --> 1:20:46.418 his guys right talking about well, I would say, you 1:20:46.418 --> 1:20:49.098 know some of the guys he mentioned Godshaw, Jelani Tavai. 1:20:50.537 --> 1:20:52.697 I thought you're talking about the guys signed extensions last year. 1:20:52.817 --> 1:20:55.737 No, I don't think any of those guys necessarily It's 1:20:55.737 --> 1:20:58.057 also difficult unless you find a trade partner to get 1:20:58.098 --> 1:20:58.737 out in some of those. 1:20:59.458 --> 1:21:02.097 They're probably a year away from being able to get 1:21:02.098 --> 1:21:03.097 out of most of them, right. 1:21:03.258 --> 1:21:05.537 But I do think those Circle the Wagons guys in 1:21:05.577 --> 1:21:09.338 the locker room that they kept around, that they held over. 1:21:09.577 --> 1:21:11.657 You know, I don't necessarily say. 1:21:11.497 --> 1:21:14.577 This as a as a knock like. I'm not saying 1:21:14.697 --> 1:21:18.017 that they're bad players. I'm just saying that those those 1:21:18.098 --> 1:21:22.137 lunch pail guys were specifically lunch pale guys for this regime. 1:21:22.298 --> 1:21:24.178 Yeah. Right, we talked about this last year and it 1:21:24.218 --> 1:21:26.138 didn't end up happening because it was this you know, 1:21:26.178 --> 1:21:29.338 same defensive coach. But yeah, new coach comes in, he's 1:21:29.338 --> 1:21:31.777 gonna want his guys. He's gonna wan. This goes back 1:21:31.817 --> 1:21:34.777 to program building, right, whether it's Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel, 1:21:35.058 --> 1:21:38.017 there are players in the league that they know can 1:21:38.058 --> 1:21:41.217 come in and set a tone and you know, they'll 1:21:41.298 --> 1:21:43.258 kind of show the way they want it to be done, 1:21:43.897 --> 1:21:46.258 and they're gonna go out and get a handful three 1:21:46.338 --> 1:21:48.458 four five of those guys probably either one and it's 1:21:48.458 --> 1:21:51.298 gonna be different players, whether it's Vrabel or Johnson, but 1:21:52.138 --> 1:21:54.057 they're gonna go out and they're gonna get those guys, 1:21:54.098 --> 1:21:58.497 and the previous culture guys are probably gonna be looking 1:21:58.537 --> 1:22:02.418 for new jobs. What do you think of Punifford. I've 1:22:02.418 --> 1:22:04.177 always liked this game. Yeah, he's a good player. 1:22:04.258 --> 1:22:07.577 Yeah, a solid nose tackle. I definitely think that they 1:22:07.657 --> 1:22:10.378 need to address the defensive line and free agency. I 1:22:10.378 --> 1:22:12.497 don't think you need to waste dress see a free agent. 1:22:13.777 --> 1:22:15.497 So I don't know off the top of my head, 1:22:15.937 --> 1:22:17.817 but I wouldn't think he would be brought up if 1:22:17.817 --> 1:22:20.538 he wasn't. I do think you can address the defensive 1:22:20.537 --> 1:22:25.617 line in free agency and bring in just some replacements 1:22:25.817 --> 1:22:29.817 and maybe some upgrades and younger players for a guy 1:22:29.937 --> 1:22:35.217 like Dietrich Wise, Daniel Qualley, Devon Godshaw. I think Gotshaw 1:22:35.298 --> 1:22:39.378 is still playing very very well, so I wouldn't necessarily 1:22:39.378 --> 1:22:42.657 put him in that category as quickly. But I don't 1:22:42.697 --> 1:22:46.097 necessarily believe that they're gonna have the luxury to address 1:22:46.178 --> 1:22:48.497 an interior defensive lineman in the draft. I know we 1:22:48.537 --> 1:22:51.338 get a lot of questions about guys like Mason Graham, 1:22:51.338 --> 1:22:51.737 and then. 1:22:51.777 --> 1:22:54.977 You can get I mean defensive tackles specifically. We talk 1:22:55.018 --> 1:22:56.497 about this every year, like you can get good nose 1:22:56.537 --> 1:22:59.138 tackles later because yeah, interesting, but right, I think what 1:22:59.258 --> 1:23:03.258 they really need, uh in and that interior is if 1:23:03.298 --> 1:23:05.817 they're gonna continue to be too gapping, which I think 1:23:05.817 --> 1:23:09.138 they probably would Underrabel, uh, they need some ends that 1:23:09.218 --> 1:23:14.657 can really play all situations. Yeah, like Barmore is one 1:23:14.657 --> 1:23:17.657 of those guys, hopefully when he comes back. But they 1:23:17.697 --> 1:23:21.537 were you know, Jeremiah Farms, Daniel Qualley, Dietrich Wise. Those 1:23:21.577 --> 1:23:24.657 guys did their best, but they just run defense and 1:23:24.697 --> 1:23:27.617 the ability to stop the run up front, the fundamentals 1:23:28.338 --> 1:23:29.777 that play blocks things like that. 1:23:29.978 --> 1:23:32.138 It wasn't good. It wasn't good enough. So you have 1:23:32.178 --> 1:23:34.617 to look at guys that can upgrade there. All right, 1:23:34.978 --> 1:23:38.137 let's get back to the phones, and it is Nate 1:23:38.258 --> 1:23:38.857 in Ohio. 1:23:38.978 --> 1:23:39.617 What's up? Nate? 1:23:41.657 --> 1:23:41.817 Hi? 1:23:41.897 --> 1:23:42.378 How's it going? 1:23:42.458 --> 1:23:43.897 Guys? Good? Thanks for holding on. 1:23:45.258 --> 1:23:48.418 So I just have a question, is far in the 1:23:48.577 --> 1:23:53.857 draft even if like at four, if Travis Hunter was there, 1:23:54.577 --> 1:23:57.577 would it be crazy to think about them possibly passing 1:23:57.617 --> 1:24:00.777 on him to take Will Campbell or Kelvin Banks. And 1:24:00.817 --> 1:24:04.338 then would you guys think that they would maybe sign 1:24:04.497 --> 1:24:07.777 like Will Fries or Trey Smith and free agency and 1:24:07.857 --> 1:24:09.737 kind of just shure up the offensive line. I think 1:24:09.737 --> 1:24:11.857 that would help Drake May and also help out the 1:24:11.937 --> 1:24:15.378 run game, and I'll take that off their I appreciate. 1:24:15.018 --> 1:24:17.058 It, thanks, Nate. I do not. 1:24:17.817 --> 1:24:20.338 I now put Travis Hunter even more on the table 1:24:20.577 --> 1:24:22.577 because I'm going to have more faith in the next 1:24:22.617 --> 1:24:24.178 head coach to figure Travis Hunter out. 1:24:24.258 --> 1:24:25.418 Yeah, but he's not going to four. 1:24:25.577 --> 1:24:28.977 No, I don't think so either. But if off the 1:24:29.018 --> 1:24:32.058 off chance that he does get to or I'm just 1:24:32.098 --> 1:24:34.017 gonna assume it's gonna be Mike Rabel, don't you have 1:24:34.058 --> 1:24:37.058 a lot more faith in Mike Rabel figuring out drafts under. 1:24:37.298 --> 1:24:38.577 This is one of those things Like I said this 1:24:38.617 --> 1:24:41.697 with Caleb Williams last year. Though, if Travis Hunter falls 1:24:41.697 --> 1:24:44.937 to four, shouldn't that tell us something? If a guy 1:24:44.978 --> 1:24:47.897 that talented gets passed up by three talent starve teams, 1:24:49.018 --> 1:24:51.817 doesn't isn't that a red flag to you? Yes, So 1:24:52.537 --> 1:24:55.298 at that point, find somebody really wants him, trade it, 1:24:55.338 --> 1:24:57.458 get a haul. I'm not saying I wouldn't take. 1:24:57.418 --> 1:25:00.378 Him, but at that point, it's because teams are afraid 1:25:00.817 --> 1:25:02.657 of where is he playing? 1:25:02.697 --> 1:25:03.098 What you know? 1:25:03.657 --> 1:25:06.298 And that happens you know well, and usually happens with 1:25:06.497 --> 1:25:08.977 lesser prospects, right, but it certainly he. 1:25:08.937 --> 1:25:11.097 May go into every meeting and say I'm playing wide receiver. 1:25:11.178 --> 1:25:13.217 Don't draft me if you don't want me playing wide receiver, 1:25:13.737 --> 1:25:16.217 and teams may say, no, we see he as a corner. 1:25:16.537 --> 1:25:18.058 Look if I'm the Patriots and I see him as 1:25:18.098 --> 1:25:19.897 a corner and he says he's gonna refuse to play corner, 1:25:19.937 --> 1:25:23.857 I wouldn't draft him. Yeah, like I So, yeah, there's 1:25:24.058 --> 1:25:26.098 he makes more sense now, But I still think the 1:25:26.178 --> 1:25:27.697 value you can get for that pick if he's on 1:25:27.737 --> 1:25:32.137 the board outweighs the value he brings. Yeah, that's fair, 1:25:32.418 --> 1:25:35.418 but I wouldn't. I wouldn't take campbeller Banks outright it 1:25:35.497 --> 1:25:38.017 for over him. If you can't move the pick, then 1:25:38.058 --> 1:25:41.137 yeah you take Hunter. Yeah. Sure. Todd is in North Carolina. 1:25:41.178 --> 1:25:41.817 What's up, Todd? 1:25:43.378 --> 1:25:46.897 Hey, guys. Uh, I'm just kind of I've been thinking 1:25:46.897 --> 1:25:48.857 about it. I'm a little bit disappointed in the Crafts 1:25:49.737 --> 1:25:52.777 because they put a first time head coach with a 1:25:52.777 --> 1:25:57.497 first time offensive coach OC and a first time DC 1:25:57.617 --> 1:26:01.737 and I don't know of any team anywhere that's had 1:26:01.777 --> 1:26:05.737 success with that kind of ill to climb, and it 1:26:05.897 --> 1:26:09.537 just it just felt awkward that they let that happen, Like, 1:26:09.577 --> 1:26:12.178 if you're going to be, what they say, the stewards 1:26:12.178 --> 1:26:15.577 for the team, why would you let the team stray 1:26:15.617 --> 1:26:19.497 that far away from having some solid coach at least 1:26:19.617 --> 1:26:23.258 somewhere in there to give some guidance. And my other 1:26:23.298 --> 1:26:26.777 problem is, is there any chance that anybody would keep 1:26:26.777 --> 1:26:29.298 a VP they came in, because I really think that 1:26:29.777 --> 1:26:31.977 he did a good with both of those young quarterbacks. 1:26:32.018 --> 1:26:33.897 It would be nice to just see maybe shim get 1:26:33.897 --> 1:26:36.697 a chance to grow with somebody who's got some talent. 1:26:36.737 --> 1:26:38.178 And that's it. That's all I got got. 1:26:38.338 --> 1:26:40.458 Thanks, good call, Todd. So I think that to the 1:26:40.497 --> 1:26:42.577 first point, I'm one hundred percent with you. This was 1:26:42.657 --> 1:26:45.258 and he said it to himself, right, Robert Gravie, And 1:26:45.298 --> 1:26:46.458 I give him a credit for this. 1:26:46.537 --> 1:26:46.777 Now. 1:26:47.777 --> 1:26:51.098 Why I'm not necessarily railing on him for it is 1:26:51.138 --> 1:26:53.777 because he failed fast, right, He realized that it was 1:26:53.777 --> 1:26:56.217 a mistake, right, and he corrected it and immediately would. 1:26:56.018 --> 1:26:57.657 Have been a much bigger mistake to double down and 1:26:57.657 --> 1:26:58.097 try a second. 1:26:58.138 --> 1:27:00.817 You're right, So it's it's pretty hard for us to 1:27:00.857 --> 1:27:03.258 then come on here and say what a mistake, what 1:27:03.338 --> 1:27:06.898 a mistake, and really rare rail on Ownership when Ownership 1:27:06.937 --> 1:27:08.337 came out and said we made a mistake. 1:27:08.657 --> 1:27:11.458 Absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. And to the second point on 1:27:11.577 --> 1:27:13.338 Van Pelt, Look, I think Van Pelt did a really 1:27:13.378 --> 1:27:15.418 good job is here. I think he did an underrated job. 1:27:15.537 --> 1:27:18.378 I think the circumstances, everything that was going on around him. 1:27:18.418 --> 1:27:21.418 Maybe maybe in like five years will look back at 1:27:21.497 --> 1:27:23.657 it and say, wow, he did. You know what he 1:27:23.657 --> 1:27:25.977 did with Drake May was should have gotten more credit 1:27:26.018 --> 1:27:28.977 in the time than he did. There is sort of 1:27:28.978 --> 1:27:31.298 a through line with him and for Able with Rabel's 1:27:31.338 --> 1:27:36.137 connections in Cleveland. But I think Rabel it to your point, 1:27:36.978 --> 1:27:38.897 and some of you've been hammering, I think Rabel's gonna 1:27:38.937 --> 1:27:41.497 have higher aspirations for the offense coordinator now if he 1:27:41.497 --> 1:27:43.418 does bring back Alex van Pelt. Takes away your whole 1:27:43.497 --> 1:27:45.577 argument about having to turn that thing over every year. 1:27:46.258 --> 1:27:48.097 And I don't think he's not coming back as quarterbacks coach. 1:27:48.138 --> 1:27:51.058 He's gonna get oc offers elsewhere off the job he 1:27:51.098 --> 1:27:53.817 did here might be back in Cleveland. But what he 1:27:53.857 --> 1:27:55.897 did with Drake May, what he did with Joe Milton, 1:27:55.937 --> 1:27:58.218 I only needed one game really to see. I do 1:27:58.298 --> 1:28:00.977 want to end with some that was that was well, 1:28:01.058 --> 1:28:03.298 let me just say that was a completely different player 1:28:03.338 --> 1:28:04.777 we saw on and I mean this is the most 1:28:04.777 --> 1:28:08.218 complimentary way possible. Seriously, that was a completely different player 1:28:08.258 --> 1:28:09.737 we saw on Sunday than we saw in the summer. 1:28:10.018 --> 1:28:13.777 That was a completely different quarterback. And Joe Milton himself 1:28:13.817 --> 1:28:16.017 deserves the most credit because he took the coaching and 1:28:16.058 --> 1:28:17.897 he put in the work and we know he worked 1:28:17.897 --> 1:28:19.857 hard behind the scenes and he took the right approach, 1:28:19.897 --> 1:28:22.098 and he deserves credit. Van Pelt deserves a ton of 1:28:22.098 --> 1:28:25.378 credit for that too, because you could argue there were 1:28:25.418 --> 1:28:28.177 definitely people who would have called Joe Milton the least 1:28:28.218 --> 1:28:32.977 developable quarterback in that draft, and Van Pelt it worked 1:28:32.978 --> 1:28:33.817 wonders with him. 1:28:33.897 --> 1:28:39.738 So I agree with you that there's probably a necessity 1:28:39.777 --> 1:28:44.217 to aim higher and probably honestly a what's the word 1:28:45.138 --> 1:28:47.977 a mandate to name higher? I think from the top, 1:28:48.378 --> 1:28:52.098 and that's just my belief my thoughts. But at the 1:28:52.138 --> 1:28:56.617 same time, there is a tie. You know, he was 1:28:56.657 --> 1:29:00.897 in Cleveland for this past season with Kevin Stefanski, who 1:29:01.497 --> 1:29:03.777 my guess is kind of regrets letting go of Alex 1:29:03.857 --> 1:29:06.257 Van Pelt with the seasons, so they had in Cleveland 1:29:06.897 --> 1:29:10.697 and We mentioned Lafloor and we mentioned Arthur Smith. Those 1:29:10.697 --> 1:29:13.937 are two West Coast coaches run very similar systems to 1:29:13.978 --> 1:29:17.458 what they run in Cleveland. There's definitely a tie that 1:29:17.617 --> 1:29:19.378 says it could work. 1:29:19.458 --> 1:29:21.218 And there's the former player thing, Like you look at 1:29:21.258 --> 1:29:24.577 Ben Johnson's staff, it's you look at Dan Campbell's staff. 1:29:24.657 --> 1:29:27.657 Ben Johnson's like the only non former player on that staff. 1:29:27.737 --> 1:29:31.017 So yeah, there's an inherent tie too between former players 1:29:31.018 --> 1:29:32.057 when you get to the coaching level. 1:29:32.138 --> 1:29:36.057 Absolutely, and I I'm not one hundred percent here for it, 1:29:36.098 --> 1:29:37.937 because I do think you can aim higher, and I 1:29:37.937 --> 1:29:40.897 do think you can get a better offensive coordinator, not 1:29:40.897 --> 1:29:42.657 a quarterbacks coach, but a better offense. 1:29:42.737 --> 1:29:46.138 Let me put it this way, I'd be surprised if 1:29:47.018 --> 1:29:49.777 Rabel or Ben Johnson, for that matter, like you got 1:29:49.777 --> 1:29:51.977 at least interview Van Pelt and kind of pick his 1:29:52.018 --> 1:29:54.057 brain on what he did he should at least, And 1:29:54.258 --> 1:29:56.537 I know it sounds kind of pathetic interview for your 1:29:56.577 --> 1:29:59.218 own job. Like if there's guys who're gonna talk about 1:29:59.258 --> 1:30:00.777 from this staff that I'd like to see the current 1:30:00.777 --> 1:30:03.817 coach keep, It's not a long list, but Alex man 1:30:03.817 --> 1:30:05.657 Pell and I don't think that one's realistic, the other 1:30:05.657 --> 1:30:08.657 three and more realistic. I wouldn't hate if they kept 1:30:08.657 --> 1:30:11.937 Scott Peters. And there's another through line there with Rabel. Yeah, 1:30:12.138 --> 1:30:14.657 I think as bad as the offensive line was for 1:30:14.697 --> 1:30:17.857 the talent Peters was given, it really could have been 1:30:17.897 --> 1:30:18.697 a lot worse. 1:30:18.857 --> 1:30:22.057 I just worry with Scott Peters. He was another first 1:30:22.058 --> 1:30:25.537 time coach at running the room. I wonder if you 1:30:25.577 --> 1:30:28.338 can get somebody in there that's more experience, and maybe 1:30:28.338 --> 1:30:28.777 you bring. 1:30:28.657 --> 1:30:32.577 In a new assistant. But and I'd like to keep 1:30:32.577 --> 1:30:35.737 Mike Pellegrino. I just think he might go to Chapel Hill. 1:30:35.777 --> 1:30:38.418 But yeah, I just think he's a fantastic coach. I'd 1:30:38.458 --> 1:30:41.298 like to hold on him. And the other one's Jeremy Springer. Yeah, 1:30:41.338 --> 1:30:42.977 and I know he's a coordinator and that's a little 1:30:42.978 --> 1:30:45.378 trickier with a new head coach. But I thought Springer 1:30:45.418 --> 1:30:47.577 did great. If you're trying to reset the culture and 1:30:47.897 --> 1:30:51.458 reset the program, the answer Springer gave about the fans 1:30:51.497 --> 1:30:55.097 booing last Friday was fantastic. Was the best answer anybody 1:30:55.098 --> 1:30:58.298 in the organization gave on that question. He's another guy 1:30:58.298 --> 1:31:00.017 at the very least I would like to see get 1:31:00.058 --> 1:31:02.418 to and it sucks you have to interview for your 1:31:02.418 --> 1:31:04.697 own job, right right, But he's another guy that I 1:31:04.697 --> 1:31:08.298 would like to see at least get that opportunity. Yeah, absolutely, 1:31:08.338 --> 1:31:09.937 all right, the rest of them not so much. Those 1:31:09.937 --> 1:31:11.737 are those four guys are the four guys that look 1:31:11.777 --> 1:31:13.777 at and I'm like, and I guess if you want 1:31:13.777 --> 1:31:16.017 to throw T. C. McCartney in under Van Pelt's umbrella, 1:31:16.058 --> 1:31:17.857 but like you can keep those guys in the building, 1:31:17.857 --> 1:31:19.097 it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. 1:31:19.218 --> 1:31:22.817 So I definitely agree that Alex van Pelt deserves a 1:31:22.897 --> 1:31:27.177 sit down with Mike Rabel and just to hear him out. 1:31:27.218 --> 1:31:30.617 And maybe you know, you do poach somebody like a 1:31:30.657 --> 1:31:32.737 Tommy Reese or someone like that, or someone from the 1:31:32.737 --> 1:31:39.977 college ranks to then go ahead and you know, innovate, update, 1:31:40.058 --> 1:31:42.817 help with play design like that sort of thing to 1:31:42.937 --> 1:31:46.057 make this thing more you know, a whole in terms 1:31:46.098 --> 1:31:48.458 of just not being just a quarterback coach but being 1:31:48.497 --> 1:31:53.458 an OC. And I also you mentioned Wes Welker. You know, 1:31:53.617 --> 1:31:55.097 is there a chance and I don't think he will 1:31:55.098 --> 1:31:58.298 because he won a playoff game to playoff games, but 1:31:58.458 --> 1:32:01.697 like if Ryan Day doesn't make it for whatever reason 1:32:01.697 --> 1:32:05.258 in Ohio State, does Brian Hartline become available. 1:32:05.178 --> 1:32:08.178 Can you prye Brian Hartline away when Ryan Day makes 1:32:08.178 --> 1:32:10.418 it or not? Passing game coordinator me I talked about 1:32:10.418 --> 1:32:14.097 having that pipeline if you sell Brian Hartline on, hey, 1:32:14.138 --> 1:32:17.097 come here coach receivers, and so Brian Hertline is Ohio 1:32:17.138 --> 1:32:20.018 State's wide receivers coach, which obviously is a factory of 1:32:20.058 --> 1:32:23.017 wide receivers. It's mind blowing. This guy has not gotten 1:32:23.058 --> 1:32:27.378 a better jobob his good got to be getting paid 1:32:27.378 --> 1:32:30.338 a ton by that too. But like the pitch to 1:32:30.697 --> 1:32:34.017 heartline for me would be come here coach or wide receivers, 1:32:34.418 --> 1:32:36.258 and you know we're gonna bring in Josh mccownon, We're 1:32:36.258 --> 1:32:38.137 gonna bring in Tommy Reese, We're gonna bring in whoever 1:32:38.218 --> 1:32:41.577 is the offensive coordinator. We are going to prepare you. 1:32:41.577 --> 1:32:44.578 You are going to be the next guy in that pipeline. 1:32:44.577 --> 1:32:46.338 And that gets back to the program building in the 1:32:46.338 --> 1:32:50.177 pipeline of it all. That would be a fantastic opportunity. Again, 1:32:50.218 --> 1:32:53.178 you have the the former player thing, Keenan McCardell, Sean 1:32:53.258 --> 1:32:57.338 Jefferson who they've talked to in the past, McCardell all 1:32:57.418 --> 1:33:01.938 is probably more a Brian Flores guy bringing him Sean Jefferson. 1:33:02.617 --> 1:33:04.258 They're probably gonna blow up in New York, right, I 1:33:04.258 --> 1:33:10.578 would think offensively. Yeah, ye, so probably like Sean Jefferson 1:33:10.897 --> 1:33:15.537 should either whether it's it's Ben Johnson or or Mike Vrabel. Frankly, 1:33:15.617 --> 1:33:18.338 Seawan was Sean Jeffers, It was Jefferson McCardell. I get 1:33:18.378 --> 1:33:20.097 it mixed up because interviewing him at the same time. Yeah, 1:33:20.138 --> 1:33:23.177 that was the Obrien here right, who was the one 1:33:24.018 --> 1:33:26.737 who Calvin Johnson said was the best coach he's ever had. 1:33:27.378 --> 1:33:29.657 I would assume that that was Sean Jefferson. Okay, So 1:33:29.817 --> 1:33:31.418 is McCardell was in Minnesota. 1:33:31.497 --> 1:33:34.418 Okay, So if he's good enough for Calvin Johnson should 1:33:34.418 --> 1:33:36.298 be good enough for you. I'd like that. 1:33:37.218 --> 1:33:38.937 That's a big time chicken or the egg. I think 1:33:38.978 --> 1:33:41.218 Calvin Johnson was gonna be good no matter what. 1:33:41.497 --> 1:33:43.097 No, he no, no, no, it's not. I'm not saying 1:33:43.098 --> 1:33:47.418 he made Calvin Johnsonvin Johns. If that guy saw something 1:33:47.458 --> 1:33:50.338 in this coach, doesn't that mean there's probably something there 1:33:50.378 --> 1:33:54.697 to see? Yes, right, that's more so much. I'm not 1:33:54.737 --> 1:33:57.857 saying Sewn Jefferson's gonna turn all your receivers into Calvin Johnson. 1:33:57.937 --> 1:33:59.378 I'm sorry, nice, it'd be fun. 1:33:59.537 --> 1:34:02.458 There's so many emails that I'm trying to get the 1:34:02.697 --> 1:34:03.298 read through. 1:34:03.338 --> 1:34:05.378 Some of them we got calls to. I know, there's 1:34:05.418 --> 1:34:06.297 so many emails. 1:34:06.338 --> 1:34:10.497 So, uh, there's some people reacting to our debate about 1:34:10.817 --> 1:34:13.777 Ben Johnson versus Mike Crable as you can imagine. 1:34:13.577 --> 1:34:14.458 One and the people's head. 1:34:14.458 --> 1:34:18.338 So Jonathan and PbD, because he wants to just be Switzerland, 1:34:18.418 --> 1:34:21.258 said we're both right, and uh, he said, I. 1:34:21.258 --> 1:34:22.617 Think that's kind of what I was going for. 1:34:22.697 --> 1:34:24.897 Yeah, we both kind of felt that way. So glad 1:34:24.978 --> 1:34:25.617 that that guy. 1:34:25.737 --> 1:34:28.057 I'm glad he understood the opening message. We would both 1:34:28.098 --> 1:34:30.338 take either guy. We would both be happy with either. 1:34:30.937 --> 1:34:33.897 So Jonathan kind of sums up my feelings on it. 1:34:33.978 --> 1:34:35.937 I don't know if you exactly feel the same way, 1:34:36.298 --> 1:34:38.577 but this is how Jonathan sums it up and sort 1:34:38.577 --> 1:34:40.937 of how what I was saying earlier. He says, I 1:34:40.937 --> 1:34:44.177 think you're both right. In just a discussion of floor 1:34:44.298 --> 1:34:47.737 versus ceiling. Ben Johnson is the low floor high ceiling play. 1:34:47.897 --> 1:34:49.697 He is the swing for the fences higher That could 1:34:49.697 --> 1:34:52.737 be the next Shanahan McVay YadA, YadA, yadda. Rabel is 1:34:52.777 --> 1:34:55.097 the safe play given that he has experienced, but there's 1:34:55.138 --> 1:34:57.617 the risk the floor becomes the ceiling. Similar, and I 1:34:57.657 --> 1:35:00.497 think this is a good comparison to Mike Tomlin with 1:35:00.537 --> 1:35:05.418 the Pittsburgh Steelers, where I would be so happy where 1:35:05.497 --> 1:35:07.657 you're never a blow five hundred team, but you're not 1:35:07.657 --> 1:35:09.177 also never a serious content. 1:35:09.018 --> 1:35:13.258 But they've won, They've won with Tomlin. To Bethsger, yes, well, 1:35:14.298 --> 1:35:19.458 Drake may should be relative to error at least Ben Roethlisberger, 1:35:19.497 --> 1:35:21.137 I would say so, right, Tomlin. 1:35:21.178 --> 1:35:24.297 The difference between Tomlin and with this situation with Rabel 1:35:24.657 --> 1:35:26.977 is Tomlin inherited a damn good tomin right. 1:35:27.018 --> 1:35:28.657 It's it's not exactly apples to apples. 1:35:28.857 --> 1:35:32.018 It would have been like and inherited the after twenty. 1:35:31.617 --> 1:35:35.217 Eighteen, right, So to me, the floor ceiling thing, yes, 1:35:35.298 --> 1:35:39.297 and I agree with that, but I add the addendum 1:35:39.458 --> 1:35:43.298 on of I'll let my roster set the ceiling, right, 1:35:43.338 --> 1:35:46.217 I just have the coach set the floor and establish 1:35:46.298 --> 1:35:49.298 a program that works. And then I think with a 1:35:49.338 --> 1:35:52.378 good roster, the ceiling you have with the great roster 1:35:53.018 --> 1:35:56.138 is higher than the ceiling you have with a great coach. So, 1:35:56.857 --> 1:36:00.857 and and that's why we're sitting here today. Yeah, but 1:36:01.298 --> 1:36:04.697 I well, I think a bad coach can drag down 1:36:04.697 --> 1:36:07.418 a good roster more than a bad roster can drag 1:36:07.458 --> 1:36:09.657 down a good coach, if that makes sense. This is 1:36:09.657 --> 1:36:11.017 why I didn't get to give this take. So I'll 1:36:11.018 --> 1:36:13.418 just kind of wedge it in here now. The head 1:36:13.418 --> 1:36:15.378 coach hiring is not the most important thing to me. 1:36:15.697 --> 1:36:18.537 It's very important, It's very important. It's not the most 1:36:18.537 --> 1:36:20.857 important thing to me. Who has final say, who's the 1:36:20.857 --> 1:36:24.697 de facto GM Mike Vrabel, is it somebody else? We 1:36:24.817 --> 1:36:26.298 touch on that a little bit. We touched in a 1:36:26.298 --> 1:36:28.617 little bit. But just like you're not going to fix 1:36:28.657 --> 1:36:30.418 this without him, you can give Rabel or Ben Jonson 1:36:30.577 --> 1:36:32.178 and a roster looks like this, it's not gonna go 1:36:32.218 --> 1:36:34.537 well for either one of them, even with your scheme 1:36:34.577 --> 1:36:37.897 whiteboard stuff. Hey, the am I wrong? You want to 1:36:37.897 --> 1:36:39.737 give Ben Johnson? This off is a long way from 1:36:39.737 --> 1:36:40.378 Penna school. 1:36:40.418 --> 1:36:42.617 But it's the thing that I like about Ben Johnson 1:36:42.657 --> 1:36:44.497 and why I'm so high on him as a as 1:36:44.537 --> 1:36:49.338 a coach, is that he'll come in here and yes, 1:36:49.418 --> 1:36:52.777 he built the Lions offense around that offensive line and rightfully. 1:36:52.817 --> 1:36:55.697 So that's why they drafted Jamiir Gibbs, That's why they 1:36:55.777 --> 1:36:58.138 drafted Penny Sewell, and they built it. Okay, so let 1:36:58.178 --> 1:37:00.857 me if he doesn't have the line, and he has 1:37:00.937 --> 1:37:04.217 great receivers or a great quarterback, I think he'll pivot. 1:37:04.458 --> 1:37:07.777 See, but these guys famously don't pivot. No. I Also, 1:37:07.857 --> 1:37:09.537 if they hire Ben Johnson, you don't get to complain 1:37:09.537 --> 1:37:11.017 if they draft a running back with the first round 1:37:11.018 --> 1:37:12.537 of a year or two. I'm gonna hold you to that. 1:37:12.937 --> 1:37:15.378 In a couple of years, we have to build the 1:37:15.418 --> 1:37:18.017 offensive line first. The reason why Jamiir Gibbs works in 1:37:18.058 --> 1:37:19.378 Detroit is a combiny. 1:37:19.458 --> 1:37:21.777 I'm not saying if they draft Ashton Genty this year, 1:37:21.817 --> 1:37:25.097 that's questionable even with Johnson, but drafted Ashton Gentry after 1:37:25.138 --> 1:37:27.577 that playoff game at all. He was better in that 1:37:27.657 --> 1:37:29.657 game than you. I told you all year that line 1:37:29.737 --> 1:37:34.298 sack after contact seven times. Here's my point on the 1:37:34.298 --> 1:37:37.857 head of personnel. Yeah, here's my point. Yeah, Drake May 1:37:38.817 --> 1:37:41.937 definitely franchise quarterback. All of that, we're not watching Drake 1:37:41.937 --> 1:37:43.697 May once a week for the next four months. Drake 1:37:43.737 --> 1:37:46.857 May is gonna be in North Carolina working with quarterbacks, coach, 1:37:47.178 --> 1:37:50.017 out of side, out of mind. Whoever, and even if 1:37:50.018 --> 1:37:54.017 it's the coach, right, Ben Johnson is not making the 1:37:54.058 --> 1:37:57.577 picks at the draft. Mike Rabel will see whoever gets 1:37:57.657 --> 1:38:01.458 that final say that person becomes the face of the 1:38:01.497 --> 1:38:04.497 franchise for the next four months. This whole thing. Drake 1:38:04.577 --> 1:38:07.817 may the new head coach, all of it. It's gonna 1:38:07.857 --> 1:38:11.178 sink or swim based on who's making the personnel decisions. 1:38:11.978 --> 1:38:15.537 I agree, I if I again, if it's Ben Johnson, 1:38:15.617 --> 1:38:17.298 you have to hire a legitimate and j. 1:38:17.418 --> 1:38:19.617 And I like I wanted Ray Agnew last year he 1:38:19.657 --> 1:38:22.617 was talking about, Say I love Ray Agnew. I'd like 1:38:22.657 --> 1:38:24.737 Ray Agnew. Even if it's Mike Rabel, I would. 1:38:24.617 --> 1:38:27.058 Hire Ray Agnew as the personnel guy. I think you 1:38:27.098 --> 1:38:28.617 actually need to hire two people at that. 1:38:28.537 --> 1:38:30.057 Point, because you need a Chris Pielman too. 1:38:30.098 --> 1:38:33.657 I think you somebody above Ray Agnew and above Ben Johnson. 1:38:34.058 --> 1:38:37.178 Isn't that what Chris Pielman is in Detroit? Yes, yes, 1:38:37.258 --> 1:38:39.258 I think so. I'm not exactly sure. He's like sort 1:38:39.298 --> 1:38:42.458 of senior football there. He's the football overlord. Yes, I'm 1:38:42.537 --> 1:38:44.937 the president of football. We talked about this last offseason. 1:38:45.018 --> 1:38:47.937 It never happened, And I want to resurface this take 1:38:47.978 --> 1:38:49.617 because I think that this take is good to take 1:38:49.657 --> 1:38:51.337 valid especially if it's Ben Johnson. 1:38:51.497 --> 1:38:53.138 It's very well. I'm not as worried about it. I 1:38:53.138 --> 1:38:54.537 think he can be because we want to be able 1:38:54.577 --> 1:38:56.977 to be this guy. Chris Bielman is a special assistant 1:38:57.018 --> 1:38:59.577 to the owner in the CEO of the Detroit Lions. 1:38:59.617 --> 1:39:00.017 There you go. 1:39:00.138 --> 1:39:05.298 So they need a football guy to be in a 1:39:05.458 --> 1:39:07.777 president of football operations chair. 1:39:07.897 --> 1:39:09.298 They need and maybe it's not a great day to 1:39:09.298 --> 1:39:10.937 bring this example up. They need a Cam Neely. 1:39:11.418 --> 1:39:14.418 Yes, and now it's the only example that's really relevant 1:39:14.458 --> 1:39:17.537 to Boston because what they don't need is a Sam Kennedy. 1:39:17.817 --> 1:39:21.178 They need a football guy to be helping with the football, right. 1:39:21.258 --> 1:39:23.897 They don't need Sam Kennedy, no offense, Boston Red Sox. 1:39:24.098 --> 1:39:26.937 They need Cam Neely and they need a guy that 1:39:27.098 --> 1:39:27.777 is going to do it. 1:39:27.857 --> 1:39:30.458 Let's use Chris Fieldman. That's probably better. M yeah, probably, 1:39:30.937 --> 1:39:32.857 But to the Bruins credit. And I know it's a 1:39:32.857 --> 1:39:34.697 different league. It worked for a long time. It's different 1:39:34.737 --> 1:39:36.418 league and all that kind of stuff. It worked for 1:39:36.418 --> 1:39:37.017 a long time. 1:39:37.058 --> 1:39:39.817 They're always in the playoffs, like They're always a relevant team, 1:39:40.178 --> 1:39:41.897 and that's what we want the Patriots to be to 1:39:41.937 --> 1:39:43.777 an extent, we obviously want the ceiling to be higher 1:39:43.777 --> 1:39:44.458 for the Patriots. 1:39:44.458 --> 1:39:47.217 But whatever, All right, let's get back to the emails. 1:39:47.617 --> 1:39:50.857 Jeffrey is in Canada and he's pushing back on me 1:39:50.937 --> 1:39:52.017 now because these. 1:39:51.857 --> 1:39:52.577 Are your people. 1:39:53.537 --> 1:39:55.937 Here are people, Evan, I have to push back if 1:39:55.978 --> 1:39:58.097 I give you Gary kubi Act. In the last ten 1:39:58.138 --> 1:40:01.857 Super Bowls, only two have been type pants guys that 1:40:01.897 --> 1:40:04.298 have won the Super Bowl. The type pants guys that 1:40:04.338 --> 1:40:06.497 have have lost five Super Bowls. 1:40:06.577 --> 1:40:08.977 So my response is large part two to Kyle Shanahan. 1:40:09.138 --> 1:40:09.617 So in my. 1:40:09.617 --> 1:40:13.897 Response to this is okay, Well, in the last ten years, 1:40:14.537 --> 1:40:17.298 two of them were Bill Belichick, three of them were 1:40:17.338 --> 1:40:20.817 Andy Reid. So there goes half of the of the pool, right, 1:40:21.258 --> 1:40:25.258 and then the other guys that have woned. Doug Peterson, 1:40:25.298 --> 1:40:27.657 I don't know what is he. He's in the middle. 1:40:27.737 --> 1:40:30.817 Probably, Well, let me ask you this, because can't throw 1:40:30.817 --> 1:40:33.577 them out, Tyler. And I'm not saying he's close Bill Belichick, 1:40:33.617 --> 1:40:36.737 Andy Reid, Doug Peterson. Yeah, who is closer to that? 1:40:36.817 --> 1:40:40.378 Mold Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel. Well, Doug Peterson and 1:40:40.378 --> 1:40:43.258 Andy Reid both call offenses. Who is closer to the 1:40:43.298 --> 1:40:44.617 mold as they exist right now? 1:40:44.777 --> 1:40:47.777 I guess probably my fraible there you go, But I 1:40:47.777 --> 1:40:50.777 would My rebuttal to this is that if you told 1:40:50.817 --> 1:40:53.697 me that the Patriots were in overtime of the Super 1:40:53.697 --> 1:40:55.857 Bowl with Ben Johnson, I'm taking it. 1:40:55.897 --> 1:40:58.977 So I will actually give you a fair rebuttal of this. Yeah, 1:40:59.418 --> 1:41:03.178 you hope. And this goes to the personnel thing. How 1:41:03.178 --> 1:41:04.977 often do I get on Kyle Shanahan because he just 1:41:05.058 --> 1:41:06.897 keeps picking bad quarterbacks and. 1:41:06.857 --> 1:41:08.657 Putting him in position? Well, that's what he says. He said, 1:41:08.697 --> 1:41:10.737 I think it's gone got way more to do with 1:41:10.817 --> 1:41:14.458 you who your quarterback is. And uh then slim versus 1:41:14.497 --> 1:41:15.737 relaxed fit, which is funny. 1:41:15.777 --> 1:41:18.178 I'll give him that though. So did you purposely wear 1:41:18.218 --> 1:41:22.577 like tight Kaki pants? I always wear these pants, of course, easy. Yeah, 1:41:22.737 --> 1:41:25.178 Drake May is obviously a far cry from Jimmy Garoppolo 1:41:25.298 --> 1:41:28.258 and Brock Party. Yep. So you hope that. And I've 1:41:28.258 --> 1:41:30.298 always said if Shanahan had a real quarterback, he probably 1:41:30.338 --> 1:41:33.418 have three or four. But whose fault is it that 1:41:33.497 --> 1:41:35.697 he doesn't have to know about doing that? You know 1:41:35.777 --> 1:41:38.897 it's his fault. It's his fault. He said no to 1:41:38.937 --> 1:41:42.338 Tom Brady, he said his fault. It's his fault. 1:41:42.777 --> 1:41:45.418 But with that being said, you don't have to worry 1:41:45.458 --> 1:41:47.378 if Sean McVay is one of the tight pants guys 1:41:47.657 --> 1:41:48.177 super Bowl. 1:41:48.178 --> 1:41:49.737 I think Sean McVay is the exception of the rule 1:41:49.817 --> 1:41:50.218 super Bowl. 1:41:50.338 --> 1:41:53.138 Kyle Shanahan has been to two of them. Like, if 1:41:53.138 --> 1:41:54.857 you told me that that's where the Patriots are going 1:41:54.897 --> 1:41:56.577 to be, I'm taking. 1:41:56.338 --> 1:41:59.097 It'd be great. And I'm not saying Ben Johnson would 1:41:59.098 --> 1:42:01.497 be a bad hire. I'll be. I'll be want to 1:42:01.537 --> 1:42:03.977 cover super Bowl? You don't want to cover. You want 1:42:03.978 --> 1:42:06.097 to have fun watching film on Monday. You said this year, 1:42:06.258 --> 1:42:09.057 why can it be both? Because well, one should take 1:42:09.098 --> 1:42:11.378 priority over the other. Why can't I have both? You 1:42:11.378 --> 1:42:13.497 can't have both, but one should take priority. All I 1:42:13.497 --> 1:42:15.298 want to get there one way and you want to 1:42:15.298 --> 1:42:17.097 get there another way. No, I want to get there anyway. 1:42:17.178 --> 1:42:19.497 I just want to get there. I want to get there. 1:42:19.537 --> 1:42:21.258 We're in there once and I think that's going to 1:42:21.298 --> 1:42:25.378 be the peak of our careers. Okay, so today's up 1:42:25.378 --> 1:42:26.657 there on the peak. This is a fun show. 1:42:27.098 --> 1:42:31.737 So there's a there's also a Okay, here's another one 1:42:31.737 --> 1:42:34.177 on your side of the stream, Evan, You're worried about 1:42:34.258 --> 1:42:37.378 Rabel ruining Drake May while simultaneously saying he made Ryan 1:42:37.418 --> 1:42:39.017 Tannehill into an MVP candidate. 1:42:39.098 --> 1:42:42.537 Correct, So which one is it? Right? I hear you. 1:42:42.657 --> 1:42:43.977 That's a good question point. 1:42:44.138 --> 1:42:46.657 I think the difference is though for me with that 1:42:46.857 --> 1:42:50.017 argument is that Ryan Tannehill was at a much different 1:42:50.018 --> 1:42:52.418 stage of his career than Drake. So Drake May is 1:42:52.418 --> 1:42:55.977 going into his second season, he's still of developmental project stage. 1:42:56.098 --> 1:42:58.338 He's still got a long ways to go. I love 1:42:58.378 --> 1:43:01.338 the talent, I love Drake May, but let's face it, 1:43:01.378 --> 1:43:02.378 he's got a long way to go. 1:43:02.497 --> 1:43:05.258 He does, but he's not. So I'd say two things. One, 1:43:05.657 --> 1:43:07.298 as much as you can ruin him scammatically, you can 1:43:07.338 --> 1:43:09.777 also run him with a bad culture. You can absolutely 1:43:09.817 --> 1:43:11.897 ruin him with a bad program. Even if he's talented. 1:43:12.218 --> 1:43:15.857 We've seen that two. Drake May's in his developmental stage. 1:43:15.857 --> 1:43:18.977 He's not going to be there forever. You don't need 1:43:19.058 --> 1:43:22.057 to worry about Mike Rabel consistently finding an offensive coordinator 1:43:22.058 --> 1:43:24.378 every other year for the next ten or fifteen years. 1:43:24.537 --> 1:43:27.338 You really just got to get one or two after that. Again, 1:43:27.378 --> 1:43:29.657 I go back to that concept of the program. If 1:43:29.697 --> 1:43:33.617 you can find two guys, the program becomes self powering, 1:43:33.857 --> 1:43:37.257 it becomes self generating. And Drake Mays also just developed 1:43:37.298 --> 1:43:39.857 at this point, and you can if you miss one, 1:43:40.378 --> 1:43:43.537 you can survive. As again, you know I'm serious if 1:43:43.537 --> 1:43:46.138 I am using the bills as a complimentary example as 1:43:46.298 --> 1:43:47.458 they did with Josh Allen. 1:43:47.897 --> 1:43:50.178 Fair enough, all right, So a couple more emails and 1:43:50.178 --> 1:43:52.098 then we'll get back to the phones before we wrap up, 1:43:52.138 --> 1:43:56.017 I promise. So Destiny says that she he or she, 1:43:56.098 --> 1:43:59.338 I'm sorry, I don't know. They love the show and 1:43:59.978 --> 1:44:02.458 mainly for the ball knowledge and the draft takes. Yep, 1:44:02.537 --> 1:44:05.418 that's that is definitely what we do, Destiny, and that's 1:44:05.458 --> 1:44:08.378 why they like the off season shows the best. 1:44:08.458 --> 1:44:10.497 I like the officer. It isn't I've always said this 1:44:10.537 --> 1:44:11.418 is an off season show. 1:44:11.537 --> 1:44:14.497 Yeah, we we this is our wheelhouse. So this is 1:44:14.537 --> 1:44:18.777 another question about offensive coordinator. And you know what who 1:44:18.897 --> 1:44:22.137 Mike Rabel's offensive coordinator would be. And we've we've talked 1:44:22.138 --> 1:44:24.218 about the names, but I just want to say, like 1:44:24.258 --> 1:44:27.617 on the record, I would be absolutely shocked if it's 1:44:27.617 --> 1:44:30.697 not Josh McDaniels. And this is just my opinion, just 1:44:30.737 --> 1:44:34.217 to just my opinion, my hunch. I would be absolutely 1:44:34.258 --> 1:44:37.057 shocked if it wasn't Josh McDaniels. And the main reason 1:44:37.098 --> 1:44:40.857 why I'd be absolutely shocked is that it's very, very 1:44:40.897 --> 1:44:44.497 crystal clear to me that Robert Kraft wants to be comfortable. 1:44:44.657 --> 1:44:46.537 He wants to hire guys he knows, he wants to 1:44:46.537 --> 1:44:49.338 be around people he knows. Mike Frable is the guy 1:44:49.378 --> 1:44:51.697 that he knows. My guess is that he's going to 1:44:51.777 --> 1:44:54.937 real hard for Josh McDaniels to be the offensive coordinator. 1:44:55.178 --> 1:44:58.138 So if it's not gonna be McDaniels, who at one 1:44:58.178 --> 1:45:00.697 point in time they thought might be the successor to 1:45:00.737 --> 1:45:03.777 Bill Belichick, So now you have Mike Rabel, who rocks 1:45:03.817 --> 1:45:06.298 and they love. You have Josh McDaniels, who they love, 1:45:06.817 --> 1:45:09.338 that's got the crafts feel nice, right, They feel like 1:45:09.378 --> 1:45:12.057 they've got two guys that can really get behind. If 1:45:12.058 --> 1:45:14.058 it's not Josh McDaniels, it's gonna have to be a 1:45:14.098 --> 1:45:17.577 really compelling pitch to Mike by Mike Vrabel as to 1:45:17.617 --> 1:45:20.857 why Tommy Reese is a better choice, Pep Hamilton's a 1:45:20.857 --> 1:45:22.218 better choice or whoever else. 1:45:22.258 --> 1:45:24.298 It ends up being Yeah, no, he's gonna have to 1:45:24.418 --> 1:45:25.857 ask why you do the interview. That's why you do 1:45:25.857 --> 1:45:27.697 the process. This is what they didn't do last year. 1:45:28.617 --> 1:45:31.338 So here's a question from Brian. Are along the same 1:45:31.378 --> 1:45:33.178 lines of offensive coordinator? And I think this is a 1:45:33.178 --> 1:45:36.218 really important point as we turn the page, and I 1:45:36.218 --> 1:45:39.297 say this tongue in cheek. But tomorrow, after Abel interviews 1:45:39.298 --> 1:45:41.138 in Friday morning, when chefter breaks that he's the next 1:45:41.138 --> 1:45:43.817 head coach of the Patriots, we are gonna start talking 1:45:43.817 --> 1:45:48.378 about coordinators, right, that's gonna be the conversation. He brings 1:45:48.458 --> 1:45:51.737 up Mike Laflor So that's Matt's brother, who is right 1:45:51.777 --> 1:45:54.817 now is the offensive coordinator for the Los Angeles Rams. 1:45:54.978 --> 1:45:55.657 Don't hate that. 1:45:55.777 --> 1:45:59.977 So the problem is there's a problem. The problem is 1:46:00.098 --> 1:46:02.697 that in the NFL, in order to make a lateral 1:46:02.777 --> 1:46:05.698 move when you're under contract, you need to get permission 1:46:05.737 --> 1:46:08.138 from the team that you're currently employed by to make 1:46:08.218 --> 1:46:10.617 that move. So it's not looked at as a promotion 1:46:11.218 --> 1:46:12.977 in the eyes of the league, even if you aren't 1:46:12.978 --> 1:46:13.657 calling plays. 1:46:13.737 --> 1:46:18.137 So what if they were to offer him like pass 1:46:18.138 --> 1:46:21.178 game coordinator. As far as I'm I know, well, he's 1:46:21.178 --> 1:46:23.537 already the offensive coordinators. That would be a devotion. Oh, 1:46:23.577 --> 1:46:25.937 you're right, you're right, right, even if they offered him 1:46:26.458 --> 1:46:29.977 an associate head coach title. Yeah, it's still a lateral 1:46:30.018 --> 1:46:31.458 move in the eye as the NFL. You're either an 1:46:31.458 --> 1:46:35.178 assistant coach slash coordinator or your head That's probably good. 1:46:35.218 --> 1:46:36.697 It's a good way to stop people from gaming the 1:46:36.737 --> 1:46:38.577 system so that it doesn't help the Patriots here, But 1:46:38.577 --> 1:46:39.017 it's right. 1:46:39.298 --> 1:46:41.577 The issue that I have with the rule, and I 1:46:41.617 --> 1:46:44.138 brought this up yesterday on PU The issue that I 1:46:44.178 --> 1:46:46.458 have with the rule is that there is a major 1:46:46.537 --> 1:46:49.857 difference in your developmental track as a coach between being 1:46:49.857 --> 1:46:52.458 a play caller and not being a play caller. So 1:46:52.817 --> 1:46:55.218 Michael Floor does not call play Sean McVay calls the 1:46:55.258 --> 1:46:56.418 plays and with the ramps. 1:46:56.857 --> 1:46:59.657 In my opinion, Mike Lafloor should be able to take 1:46:59.697 --> 1:47:03.218 a play caller role that should be considered in the 1:47:03.218 --> 1:47:05.617 eyes of the league, that should be considered a promotion. 1:47:05.897 --> 1:47:09.537 Is there any reporting as to whether or not McVeigh 1:47:09.537 --> 1:47:12.777 would let him go for that opportunity. There isn't because 1:47:12.777 --> 1:47:14.298 at a certain point, like he's got to go to 1:47:14.338 --> 1:47:16.537 McVeigh and be like, hey, this is a better opportunity 1:47:16.537 --> 1:47:19.537 for me. You gotta let me because nobody's gonna hire 1:47:19.577 --> 1:47:21.497 him as a head coach without that play calling experience 1:47:21.617 --> 1:47:23.577 or not for a while. So if he wants to 1:47:23.577 --> 1:47:25.617 be a head coach, he needs to get out of there. 1:47:26.058 --> 1:47:28.178 Like does he go to McVeigh and put pressure on McVeigh, like, hey, 1:47:28.178 --> 1:47:31.538 you need to let me get this opportunity. It's possible, 1:47:31.817 --> 1:47:35.537 but from what I understand about the process, it's tricky 1:47:35.577 --> 1:47:37.657 because he's under contract, which means he needs to buy 1:47:37.697 --> 1:47:41.098 out his contract. That it just there's a lot of 1:47:41.178 --> 1:47:44.057 layers that present, in a lot of roadblocks that present 1:47:44.258 --> 1:47:47.857 to prevent lateral movement in the NFL. If he wasn't 1:47:47.897 --> 1:47:50.458 under contract, if his contract has expired and he's a 1:47:50.617 --> 1:47:53.937 true coaching free agent, for example, like Patrick Graham with 1:47:54.018 --> 1:47:57.178 the Vegas Raiders, then that's different. Like Patrick Graham can 1:47:57.218 --> 1:48:00.418 go and be a defensive coordinator someplace else. That's not 1:48:00.497 --> 1:48:03.018 the case if you're currently employed, like my guy is 1:48:03.058 --> 1:48:06.458 Stenovich with the Green Bay Packers. He is an offensive coordinator. 1:48:06.777 --> 1:48:09.217 He's already got the title. He's not the play caller. 1:48:09.378 --> 1:48:11.218 There's nothing he can do. I think one of these 1:48:11.218 --> 1:48:12.697 guys would put the pressure on to try to get 1:48:12.697 --> 1:48:14.977 to better opportunity. Yeah, there's a million of them. Frank 1:48:15.018 --> 1:48:17.697 Smith in Miami is another one that is a hot 1:48:18.018 --> 1:48:20.138 head coaching name we go. You're making my argument for 1:48:20.178 --> 1:48:20.777 me about vraybe. 1:48:20.978 --> 1:48:24.097 Frank Smith, though already is the offensive coordinator by title 1:48:24.138 --> 1:48:26.777 with the Miami Dolphins, so he cannot make a lateral 1:48:26.857 --> 1:48:29.337 move even though Mike McDaniel runs the offense and calls. 1:48:29.178 --> 1:48:32.057 The plays too bad, Dolphins and fire Mike McDaniel. There 1:48:32.098 --> 1:48:36.458 you go. Uh. Mike Kafka with the New York Giants, Yeah, 1:48:36.497 --> 1:48:38.098 they were really tied to him at one point a 1:48:38.098 --> 1:48:39.897 couple of years ago. Weren't they last year with the 1:48:40.378 --> 1:48:44.338 search potentially, But Mike Kafka got a promotion on Dables 1:48:44.378 --> 1:48:46.458 staff to give him the title. And part of that 1:48:46.617 --> 1:48:48.657 is just to make sure that the only jump he's 1:48:48.657 --> 1:48:51.097 going to make is the head coach. So that's that's 1:48:51.098 --> 1:48:53.097 where it gets tricky with a lot of those types 1:48:53.138 --> 1:48:56.497 of guys. All right, a couple of emails here about 1:48:56.497 --> 1:49:00.057 the just the process, and I understand you know this 1:49:00.138 --> 1:49:04.577 is from Brandon. Uh, he is concerned that they're not 1:49:04.697 --> 1:49:06.418 doing a thorough search and he said, for all the 1:49:06.418 --> 1:49:08.458 talk from Mark ak about how they would do with 1:49:08.497 --> 1:49:10.537 thorough search and whatever it takes to get back to 1:49:10.577 --> 1:49:14.338 being good, I agree with Albert Breer's comments from last 1:49:14.418 --> 1:49:18.777 night that it's looking like a sham sham strong. Albert 1:49:18.817 --> 1:49:20.857 Breer has been hard on them though for the Pep 1:49:20.897 --> 1:49:24.697 Hamilton and Byron Leftwich interviews to check off the rule, 1:49:25.018 --> 1:49:28.218 and I I understand where he's coming from. My pushback 1:49:28.258 --> 1:49:34.338 with the the thorough search is one, it's a private business, 1:49:34.537 --> 1:49:36.458 so at the end of the day, it's their business, 1:49:36.497 --> 1:49:39.097 it's their football team. Whoever they think is the best 1:49:39.098 --> 1:49:42.338 guy for the job is the best guy for the job. Secondly, 1:49:42.537 --> 1:49:47.458 I'd be more frustrated with that aspect of it if 1:49:47.497 --> 1:49:51.017 Mike Rabel wasn't qualified, like if it was dry Ao 1:49:51.098 --> 1:49:54.338 two point zero, I'd be more frustrated with that part 1:49:54.378 --> 1:49:57.058 of it. But they're the reason why the crafts, in 1:49:57.098 --> 1:49:59.897 my opinion, are moving so quickly is because Mike Rabel 1:49:59.937 --> 1:50:02.338 is a coaching free agent. He can get hired at 1:50:02.418 --> 1:50:05.817 any time by anybody and toom Brady and so if 1:50:05.817 --> 1:50:08.258 they don't move fast, then he's gonna get hired by 1:50:08.258 --> 1:50:11.137 somebody else. So I here's my thing about like the 1:50:11.178 --> 1:50:14.138 thoroughness of the search, right, Yeah, who else do you 1:50:14.138 --> 1:50:16.617 want them to talk to? Not you? Just like in general, 1:50:16.657 --> 1:50:18.617 like if you're worry they're not talking about people? Yeah, 1:50:18.657 --> 1:50:20.017 who else you want them to talk to? I think 1:50:20.018 --> 1:50:22.978 there's the only other guy really for me is Flores. 1:50:23.218 --> 1:50:25.098 And they'd have to wait two weeks to do it, 1:50:25.138 --> 1:50:27.777 and I get that. Yeah, what I I hope they 1:50:27.777 --> 1:50:30.137 are like Rabel and Ben Johnson. This is a unique 1:50:30.138 --> 1:50:32.577 psych with Rabel and Ben Johnson. I think are clearly 1:50:33.857 --> 1:50:36.458 the two best candidates available right now. I put Flores 1:50:36.497 --> 1:50:38.258 on their tier, but they can't talk to him right now. 1:50:38.577 --> 1:50:42.218 Those are clearly the two best candidates. I want those 1:50:42.258 --> 1:50:46.737 two guys vetted thoroughly. I want no stone unturned in 1:50:46.817 --> 1:50:49.777 those interviews, and I want an open mind going into 1:50:49.817 --> 1:50:53.378 those interviews between those two. That's what I hope we get. 1:50:54.857 --> 1:50:57.138 Who else is like Aaron Glenn? All right, I'll give 1:50:57.178 --> 1:50:58.737 you Aaron Glenn too. I don't think they want a 1:50:58.777 --> 1:51:01.577 first time defensive head coach, But like I wouldn't mind 1:51:01.577 --> 1:51:03.897 if they talk to Aaron Glenn. I don't need them 1:51:03.937 --> 1:51:05.458 to talk to I don't need them to talk to 1:51:05.497 --> 1:51:07.258 Doug Peterson. Who are some of the other names that 1:51:07.298 --> 1:51:09.817 are out there. I don't need Liam Cohone. I don't 1:51:09.897 --> 1:51:12.897 I think leeam no Brady, all right, you talk to 1:51:12.937 --> 1:51:15.258 Joe Brady to figure out what's going on with Josh Allen. 1:51:15.338 --> 1:51:18.338 But like, I'm good there, Liam Cohne to me, and 1:51:18.378 --> 1:51:20.097 I like Liam Cohne, I do. And he's a local 1:51:20.098 --> 1:51:23.338 guy and all that. He's still probably your away. I 1:51:23.378 --> 1:51:25.458 think if you hire him, it's too early. Maybe he's 1:51:25.497 --> 1:51:28.577 not quite as ross Jerd Mayo, but he's like I've 1:51:28.657 --> 1:51:30.178 kind of dumped on Ben Johnson in the. 1:51:30.098 --> 1:51:33.897 WELO bounced from LA to Kentucky, back to LA down 1:51:33.937 --> 1:51:34.537 to Tampa. 1:51:34.817 --> 1:51:36.977 Like he's you skipped like four or five trips between 1:51:37.098 --> 1:51:37.657 LA and Kentucky. 1:51:37.737 --> 1:51:41.897 Yeah, he's got to kind of solidify some consistency. 1:51:41.378 --> 1:51:45.378 I like, as much as I pushed back on Ben Johnson, 1:51:45.378 --> 1:51:47.577 the whole concept of the first year head coach, as 1:51:47.577 --> 1:51:50.137 far as the rookie head coach goes, Ben Johnson's relatively 1:51:50.178 --> 1:51:52.737 well prepared. I'm not picking on Ben Johnson specifically, it's 1:51:52.737 --> 1:51:55.058 the concept of a rookie head coach. William Cohane to 1:51:55.098 --> 1:51:57.458 me is like even for a rookie head coach would 1:51:57.497 --> 1:52:00.218 be raw. Yeah, I would be early, But like, I 1:52:00.218 --> 1:52:01.737 don't need them. I know some people talk about like 1:52:01.817 --> 1:52:04.617 Dan Lanning. Dan Lane's going to tell you what worked 1:52:04.617 --> 1:52:06.418 at Oregon. Dan Lane is going to tell you what 1:52:06.458 --> 1:52:10.537 worked at the college level. It'd be fascinating. I don't 1:52:10.577 --> 1:52:12.257 know how much that applies to the New England Patriots. 1:52:12.298 --> 1:52:14.897 So the only reason in my opinion that you interview 1:52:16.018 --> 1:52:19.497 some of these other guys I said at the top 1:52:19.497 --> 1:52:21.537 of the show, I don't need them to interview fifteen guys. 1:52:21.577 --> 1:52:24.298 Like the Jets are putting in a request for half 1:52:24.298 --> 1:52:26.378 the league. They talked to Adam Gase, yet they talked 1:52:26.378 --> 1:52:29.017 to Rex Ryan. That's why what I'm saying, Adam gas 1:52:29.537 --> 1:52:30.097 I talked. 1:52:29.937 --> 1:52:32.937 To the entire NFL world, is interviewing with the Jets. 1:52:32.978 --> 1:52:35.378 I don't need the Patriots to do that. The argument, 1:52:35.418 --> 1:52:37.537 and you just made it for Joe Brady. The argument 1:52:37.697 --> 1:52:39.817 is is that you want to hear different perspectives and 1:52:39.857 --> 1:52:42.617 different philosophies, so that way there you can kind of 1:52:42.617 --> 1:52:45.017 settle on what the direction is that you want to 1:52:45.058 --> 1:52:48.258 go in. So if Joe Brady and Liam Cohene, they 1:52:48.298 --> 1:52:50.657 come in a lot of these interviews, especially the in 1:52:50.737 --> 1:52:53.937 person ones. They give them a little project. They'll say, Okay, 1:52:54.018 --> 1:52:56.697 Joe Brady, like, what would you do with Drake may 1:52:57.018 --> 1:52:59.897 right right now, Joe Brady has it already done, right 1:52:59.978 --> 1:53:02.897 he would just put on the buffalo yeah, and be 1:53:03.018 --> 1:53:05.298 like this is what we would do, but that that's 1:53:05.298 --> 1:53:07.937 sort of what would go into it. And now once 1:53:07.978 --> 1:53:10.338 you make your higher you can say to them, you know, 1:53:10.378 --> 1:53:13.777 we really kind of like this philosophy of pushing the 1:53:13.817 --> 1:53:16.657 offense in this sort of direction and get the head 1:53:16.657 --> 1:53:18.857 coach's perspective and all that kind of stuff, so that 1:53:19.378 --> 1:53:22.537 it's really about hearing out the different philosophy. 1:53:22.098 --> 1:53:23.777 Or the other thing you can do with it is 1:53:24.458 --> 1:53:27.217 And we saw them do this at a lower level 1:53:27.218 --> 1:53:29.657 in the past. Like you talk to guys who you're 1:53:29.657 --> 1:53:31.537 probably not gonna hires head coach, we might hire his 1:53:31.577 --> 1:53:33.617 offensive coordinator because that we have in the building. You 1:53:33.657 --> 1:53:35.857 start to build that rapport. Now when you get to 1:53:35.857 --> 1:53:38.458 the offensive coordinator interviews, you're already kind of a step ahead. 1:53:38.697 --> 1:53:41.897 Like Pep Hamilton, think that that Pep Hamilton is on 1:53:41.937 --> 1:53:44.497 that track. Potentially I wouldn't and I know you don't 1:53:44.537 --> 1:53:47.338 love the job he did, and I get it. I 1:53:47.338 --> 1:53:49.537 wouldn't roll out Byron left Wich in that regard either, 1:53:49.617 --> 1:53:52.857 just because I don't know how this works with Brady 1:53:52.897 --> 1:53:55.497 being an owner of the Raiders, but like he was 1:53:55.537 --> 1:54:00.577 Brady's OC for multiple years, Brady and Rabel have this relationship. Yep. 1:54:00.777 --> 1:54:02.537 Does Rabel go to Brady and say what do you 1:54:02.537 --> 1:54:04.298 think of Byron left Witch? But can he do that? 1:54:04.418 --> 1:54:06.697 Is that tampering because Brady's with the Raiders, Like, I 1:54:06.697 --> 1:54:08.378 don't know how that thing works, but there is a 1:54:08.418 --> 1:54:09.097 connection there. 1:54:09.298 --> 1:54:14.458 So yeah, and again, I just don't really lose a 1:54:14.458 --> 1:54:16.618 lot of sleep over the fact that they're not interviewing 1:54:16.978 --> 1:54:18.697 a dozen candidates for this position. 1:54:19.298 --> 1:54:20.737 And I just want them to as long as they 1:54:20.737 --> 1:54:22.257 have an open mind with Ben Johnson. 1:54:22.338 --> 1:54:24.657 Yeah, the other thing, and then I will take these 1:54:24.697 --> 1:54:26.737 calls and wrap it up. The other thing, I would 1:54:26.817 --> 1:54:29.057 just say about the breadth of this search and all 1:54:29.058 --> 1:54:32.298 that kind of stuff. I was skeptical to put them 1:54:32.298 --> 1:54:36.778 in this category because of the timeline, like I thought, 1:54:37.618 --> 1:54:42.298 and I still do. If Buffalo, if Philadelphia, if they're 1:54:42.298 --> 1:54:44.858 one and done in the playoffs this year and one 1:54:44.897 --> 1:54:47.297 of those two head coaches get fired as a result, 1:54:48.058 --> 1:54:51.057 they're gonna be the top destination. But as of right now, 1:54:51.098 --> 1:54:53.218 the six teams that have let their head coaches go 1:54:53.978 --> 1:54:56.738 on Black Monday. As of right now, the New England 1:54:56.778 --> 1:55:00.017 Patriots are the top destination on the board. So as 1:55:00.058 --> 1:55:03.177 a result, they have their pick. You don't need contingency planning. 1:55:03.218 --> 1:55:07.337 They don't need contingency plans. You're interviewing guys like Drew Petsing, 1:55:07.418 --> 1:55:10.897 Liam Cohne. Those types of guys are getting interviews as 1:55:11.178 --> 1:55:12.017 playing BCD. 1:55:12.698 --> 1:55:16.378 Right, it's the rookie guys being interviewed in case of 1:55:16.418 --> 1:55:18.818 Louise Johnson, the other guys being interviewed in case lose 1:55:18.897 --> 1:55:22.498 you lose out on Raybel Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with 1:55:22.618 --> 1:55:23.017 you on that. 1:55:23.778 --> 1:55:26.538 It surprises me to an extent that the Patriots are 1:55:26.538 --> 1:55:27.538 the number one destination. 1:55:27.738 --> 1:55:27.937 Kay. 1:55:28.538 --> 1:55:31.538 Maybe I'm just like trying to like tech myself in 1:55:31.538 --> 1:55:32.217 that situation. 1:55:32.258 --> 1:55:34.458 I think some of it might be I mean, the 1:55:34.458 --> 1:55:36.778 other destinations, some of it might be my default. The 1:55:36.818 --> 1:55:39.578 other destinations are bad. Yeah, it's really the only other 1:55:39.618 --> 1:55:42.498 one that has a case of Chicago. Chicago's not terrible, 1:55:42.538 --> 1:55:45.338 it's more just a track record of ownership there. But yeah, 1:55:45.378 --> 1:55:49.977 I mean the Jets are that's brutal the Saints might 1:55:50.018 --> 1:55:52.658 have to hire you, Yeah, dumpster because nobody wants to 1:55:52.698 --> 1:55:54.858 go there. Yeah, so, and then you can do your 1:55:54.858 --> 1:55:56.418 whole thing about the Saints salary cap. 1:55:56.538 --> 1:55:59.418 Yeah in Vegas also kind of a dumpster fire. So uh, 1:55:59.698 --> 1:56:00.858 the Patriots Vegas. 1:56:00.618 --> 1:56:02.538 Should be better option if they have a top two pick. 1:56:02.658 --> 1:56:05.498 The Patriots have a quarterback, they have cap space, and 1:56:05.538 --> 1:56:08.538 they have a top draft pick. So you're coming in 1:56:08.578 --> 1:56:12.258 and you it's you have the canvas, right, It's the 1:56:12.298 --> 1:56:15.017 world is your oyster here in New England. And even 1:56:15.058 --> 1:56:17.658 though here locally the Crafts have taken on a lot 1:56:17.658 --> 1:56:19.858 of water in the last four or five years, I 1:56:19.897 --> 1:56:22.538 think I still think across the league they are viewed 1:56:22.538 --> 1:56:24.897 as good owners. And I also had stable owners because 1:56:24.897 --> 1:56:26.937 the team's not going any Look, it. 1:56:26.937 --> 1:56:28.258 Would have to go so bad for them to one 1:56:28.298 --> 1:56:29.937 and done two coaches in a row. Right, So you 1:56:30.178 --> 1:56:31.818 may be think you're gonna get a little longer leash. 1:56:32.218 --> 1:56:33.897 All right, let's get back to the phones and then 1:56:33.897 --> 1:56:36.858 we'll call it a day. Here Don is in Philadelphia. 1:56:36.897 --> 1:56:38.538 What's up, don O? 1:56:38.578 --> 1:56:42.137 Hey, guys, I just wanted to talk roster construction really quick. 1:56:43.378 --> 1:56:47.498 I'm not sure the average fan really realizes how much 1:56:47.618 --> 1:56:50.017 cap space one hundred and thirty million dollars is. 1:56:50.258 --> 1:56:50.858 I think you're right. 1:56:50.897 --> 1:56:53.977 You can get you can get top tier players that 1:56:54.018 --> 1:56:57.418 are starting. I mean the way you structure those contracts. 1:56:57.538 --> 1:56:59.218 You know, I know the hot name being thrown out 1:56:59.298 --> 1:57:02.778 is always T Higgins, and I know Alex loves the 1:57:02.818 --> 1:57:08.698 idea of trading for a DK mattcat. My my thought 1:57:08.778 --> 1:57:13.698 is is you know why, you know, spend all this 1:57:13.818 --> 1:57:16.618 money if you can get a Byron Murphy, get a 1:57:16.698 --> 1:57:20.538 DJ Reid, get a T. Higgins, and then you could 1:57:20.658 --> 1:57:24.097 draft best player available. You know, I think Calvin Banks 1:57:24.178 --> 1:57:26.698 is good, but if you can get app Bill Carter, 1:57:26.978 --> 1:57:28.698 I think his feeling is much higher. 1:57:29.178 --> 1:57:30.338 You know what? 1:57:30.658 --> 1:57:31.937 And also what is your thought? 1:57:32.458 --> 1:57:35.738 Would you trade a second round pick for a DK Metcalf? 1:57:36.218 --> 1:57:39.338 But I'll leave it you guys, than no problem. Don 1:57:39.498 --> 1:57:42.618 gonna take care of the dog. Yeah. So I agree 1:57:42.658 --> 1:57:44.977 with most of what he said. The only little thing 1:57:45.058 --> 1:57:48.057 there is it's great in theory to say we're gonna 1:57:48.058 --> 1:57:50.658 spend money on a starting corner, starting wide receiver, starting tackle, 1:57:50.698 --> 1:57:53.538 starting edge rusher. Right, yeah, Well, all those players have 1:57:53.538 --> 1:57:55.258 to be available for you to spend money on. You 1:57:55.258 --> 1:57:57.338 can't just create players out of thin air. I think 1:57:57.338 --> 1:58:00.097 at most of the positions you can do it. If 1:58:00.138 --> 1:58:03.218 not through outright free agency trading for pre agents, guys 1:58:03.218 --> 1:58:06.698 that are entering their last year. I tackle to me, 1:58:07.138 --> 1:58:09.897 the market does not look great. There's Cam Robinson and 1:58:09.937 --> 1:58:11.698 maybe you throw a bag at Cam Robinson and maybe 1:58:12.937 --> 1:58:15.217 I would be shocked if he gets out of Baltimore 1:58:15.378 --> 1:58:17.498 as well. Right, so like maybe you throw a bag 1:58:17.498 --> 1:58:19.658 at Ronnie Stanley. And that's the answer to his point 1:58:19.658 --> 1:58:22.057 about like you can draft the best player available. Well, 1:58:22.058 --> 1:58:24.658 if you can take care of every position but one, 1:58:25.378 --> 1:58:27.258 then you can draft that. And I think between some 1:58:27.338 --> 1:58:29.338 of like the tackling edge rusher guys, it is close. 1:58:29.498 --> 1:58:32.017 So I I still think if you want that premier 1:58:32.098 --> 1:58:35.218 tackle like Cam Robinson's a good tackle, if you want 1:58:35.218 --> 1:58:37.658 your franchise left tackle, set it and forget it ten years, 1:58:37.698 --> 1:58:40.178 you probably need to go to the draft. But no, 1:58:40.258 --> 1:58:43.257 they they should be. They need to bring in multiple 1:58:43.258 --> 1:58:47.858 starters through the veteran market. I you know, corner, we've talked. 1:58:48.018 --> 1:58:49.897 You don't need a stud corner. It'd be great, but 1:58:50.178 --> 1:58:52.017 you can get away with like DJ Reads a little 1:58:52.018 --> 1:58:53.897 small for me, but like a Carlton Davis, this guy, 1:58:53.897 --> 1:58:56.658 I've talked about a couple of decent pass rushers out 1:58:56.658 --> 1:59:00.818 there that'll be available. I'm a second for DK Metcalf. 1:59:00.978 --> 1:59:05.538 I would do that. I'm done thirty eight for DK Metcalf. 1:59:05.978 --> 1:59:08.257 You're not going to draft a receiver veteran DK Metcalf 1:59:08.298 --> 1:59:11.338 at thirty eight, and you probably need to be using 1:59:11.378 --> 1:59:12.937 your top pick on the trenches one side of the 1:59:12.937 --> 1:59:15.897 ball or the other. So it's probably the Highester taking receiver. 1:59:16.498 --> 1:59:18.977 I'd try easily trade that pick for DK Metcalf. You 1:59:19.018 --> 1:59:21.738 give him like thirty million a year. DJ Reid's gonna 1:59:21.738 --> 1:59:25.057 cost you what like fifteen? Or Carlton Davis, Whoever's gonna 1:59:25.058 --> 1:59:27.858 cost you fifteen? Pass rusher is probably another fifteen. The 1:59:27.858 --> 1:59:30.097 money is not the problem. You're only half You're less 1:59:30.098 --> 1:59:31.618 than half through your salary cap at that. 1:59:31.738 --> 1:59:33.738 The money is not the problem. The problem is is 1:59:33.778 --> 1:59:38.217 that it's about the talent on the board. And yes, 1:59:38.498 --> 1:59:41.178 you if theoretically could sign a Cam Robbinson, could sign 1:59:41.178 --> 1:59:42.137 a Carlton Davis. 1:59:42.258 --> 1:59:44.897 But the question is are they good enough? Right? 1:59:44.937 --> 1:59:45.017 Like? 1:59:45.098 --> 1:59:47.618 Are they truly good enough player? If you if you 1:59:48.058 --> 1:59:50.858 put all the moves together correctly, I think you know 1:59:50.897 --> 1:59:54.097 you're not building super bowl roster this offseason. I don't 1:59:54.098 --> 1:59:55.858 think you're gonna get the players good enough to make 1:59:55.897 --> 1:59:58.057 you like a super Bowl team this offseason, right, Can 1:59:58.098 --> 1:59:59.658 they put you in the right direction? Can you be 1:59:59.698 --> 2:00:01.258 one of these teams? You were in the mix for 2:00:01.298 --> 2:00:03.458 the playoffs the last week? Yeah, I think the talent's 2:00:03.458 --> 2:00:03.858 there for that. 2:00:03.978 --> 2:00:05.818 So you what you worry about though, is like in 2:00:05.858 --> 2:00:09.018 twenty one, they got one really true impact player in 2:00:09.098 --> 2:00:11.858 Matthew g Yeah, Hunter Henry is a really solid title. 2:00:12.018 --> 2:00:13.618 I'll give him that one. Kendrick Bourne would have been 2:00:13.658 --> 2:00:15.258 good if they didn't screw with him. Sure, but like 2:00:15.458 --> 2:00:18.458 Kendrick Bourne, Nelson Agalore, John new Smith, do not put 2:00:18.538 --> 2:00:21.338 Kendrick burn group is Agalre and Smith. Those are different. 2:00:21.378 --> 2:00:24.258 Okay, Also, as we now know, like those guys are 2:00:24.298 --> 2:00:26.338 good players, but they're not great players. 2:00:26.378 --> 2:00:28.778 Well as we now know, John new Smith's not a 2:00:28.818 --> 2:00:31.418 bad player, they just didn't use them. But my point 2:00:31.458 --> 2:00:33.178 being is that you're not getting the great players in 2:00:33.218 --> 2:00:34.977 free agent. No, you're not. That has to come through 2:00:35.018 --> 2:00:37.097 the draft. You're supporting it through free agent or yeah, 2:00:37.178 --> 2:00:40.298 veteran market. You got to be able to draft well 2:00:40.618 --> 2:00:43.738 Robertkraft talked about this. He was exactly right. You can't 2:00:43.738 --> 2:00:46.177 have sustained success in the NFL, and look what happened 2:00:46.218 --> 2:00:48.218 they did that In the next few years. They didn't 2:00:48.218 --> 2:00:50.498 really add anybody in free agency, they had bad drafts, 2:00:50.578 --> 2:00:52.818 So one offseason is not going to fix it. You 2:00:52.858 --> 2:00:55.738 can absolutely get yourself going in the right direction, though, 2:00:55.978 --> 2:01:00.418 and I think for that first step, the talent is available. 2:01:00.458 --> 2:01:03.458 Between the draft and the veteran market, they can make 2:01:03.498 --> 2:01:05.097 the moves they need to make to get on that 2:01:05.138 --> 2:01:07.778 first step. They then got to followed up next offseason 2:01:07.818 --> 2:01:09.778 the off season after that, which is what they didn't 2:01:09.778 --> 2:01:12.017 do last time. But I do think the talent's there 2:01:12.058 --> 2:01:14.018 to do more or less what they need to do 2:01:14.098 --> 2:01:18.058 to have like what is reasonably a successful offseason this offseason. 2:01:17.618 --> 2:01:20.738 So they need to in my opinion, we always say 2:01:20.738 --> 2:01:23.178 that there's no such thing as best player available. Yeah, 2:01:23.258 --> 2:01:26.177 but there's best player available at premium position, best player 2:01:26.178 --> 2:01:28.858 available for the football team. So I don't necessarily care 2:01:29.698 --> 2:01:33.658 about targetting a tackle, targeting a receiver. I'd be open 2:01:33.778 --> 2:01:36.618 to Abdull Carter as much as I'm open to Calvin Banks. 2:01:37.098 --> 2:01:39.458 If I'm the Patriots, I'm approaching it the same way. 2:01:39.978 --> 2:01:42.698 I'm just not drafting guards and running backs and kickers 2:01:42.698 --> 2:01:45.418 and punters, and like you gotta it's gotta be a 2:01:45.418 --> 2:01:47.977 premium position. It's got to be it's got to be 2:01:47.978 --> 2:01:50.658 a receiver, okay, but a tackle, a pass rusher, or 2:01:50.698 --> 2:01:53.858 a corner. The overall I'm not drafting defensive tackles either. 2:01:54.058 --> 2:01:58.018 I'm with you, Almadam, Mason Graham. The overall philosophy stands. Yeah, 2:01:58.098 --> 2:01:59.538 but you can only pick the players that are on 2:01:59.578 --> 2:02:03.338 the board. It's Tet McMillan good enough to be worthy. 2:02:03.418 --> 2:02:06.618 That's that's a bigger conversation that we don't have time for. Well, no, 2:02:06.658 --> 2:02:08.778 we we have a lot of time over the coming weeks. 2:02:08.818 --> 2:02:11.858 But my point is, like you have to if you 2:02:11.978 --> 2:02:13.778 if you know Teed McMillan is not worth that pick, 2:02:13.818 --> 2:02:15.937 and you know you need to add a receiver, you 2:02:16.098 --> 2:02:18.778 have to be very aggressive in the vet whether it's Higgins, 2:02:18.778 --> 2:02:21.298 whether it's Metcalfe, with it somebody else, not Tyreek Hill, though, 2:02:21.378 --> 2:02:23.137 you have to be very aggressive to the veteran market. 2:02:23.298 --> 2:02:25.298 You want them to add tyreek Kill. I'm just laughing. 2:02:25.578 --> 2:02:26.578 I'm out on time, Okay. 2:02:26.618 --> 2:02:29.738 We gotta wrap uh the playbook is coming up at 2:02:29.738 --> 2:02:32.258 two thirties. If you didn't get your calls and your 2:02:32.258 --> 2:02:34.738 emails in, you can hang on and John Rocca will 2:02:34.778 --> 2:02:37.298 be along here shortly to take those. 2:02:37.298 --> 2:02:38.937 But we're already over, so we got to go. I 2:02:38.937 --> 2:02:40.698 hope we lived up to the billing I said before 2:02:40.738 --> 2:02:41.937 the show on Twitter is like this is gonna be 2:02:41.937 --> 2:02:43.298 in all time er. I hope we lived up there 2:02:43.218 --> 2:02:45.378 and we did yell at each other, and that show 2:02:45.458 --> 2:02:47.738 honestly felt like it was fifteen minutes. All right, Well, 2:02:47.778 --> 2:02:48.778 we'll be back next week. 2:02:48.818 --> 2:02:50.977 This is our new time slot for the off season, 2:02:51.018 --> 2:02:54.498 so noon to two on Wednesdays for the duration of 2:02:54.538 --> 2:02:55.538 the off season. 2:02:55.498 --> 2:02:56.897 For like two weeks, and then we'll have to move 2:02:56.937 --> 2:02:59.458 it further to senior ball and then the comment but 2:02:59.658 --> 2:03:00.218 this will be there. 2:03:00.298 --> 2:03:02.498 This is this is supposed to be the permanent time slot. 2:03:02.538 --> 2:03:04.498 So we'll see you guys next week at this time. 2:03:04.538 --> 2:03:06.778 And I think we might have a Patriots head coach 2:03:06.818 --> 2:03:08.338 by that point, so we'll talk about it then. 2:03:08.418 --> 2:03:12.858 But thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple, 2:03:12.897 --> 2:03:15.937 google Play, and everywhere else you listen. 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