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Speaker 1: Patriots Unfiltered the world's original podcast. Patriots Unfiltered brings you

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Speaker 1: inside Jillette Stadium for rousing conversations on everything New England, Patriots,

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Speaker 1: and NFL. Join host Fred Kersh alongside Patriots dot COM's

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Speaker 1: Paul Parillo, Mike Desso, Evan Lazar, Tamara Brown, and Alex

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Speaker 1: Francisco as they bring you in depth coverage of the team.

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Speaker 2: He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's

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Speaker 2: really that's his rookie season essentially too, So now we're

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Speaker 2: really not talking about them, really knowing.

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Speaker 1: Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts. This

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Speaker 1: is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar

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Speaker 1: and Alex bar'lar.

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Speaker 2: Blazar from Lazar, Hello, everybody nailed it. He joined as

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Speaker 2: always by our Bara Risk. Here is Evan Lazar and

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Speaker 2: Alex barrs. So we do have a little bit of

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Speaker 2: draft news. Okay, Jalen Milroe has officially declared. Jeez, so

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Speaker 2: there's another quarterback on the board. I might have gone

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Speaker 2: back if I were him after that game this week,

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Speaker 2: but Evan wanted Alabama in the playoffs, so maybe he

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Speaker 2: feels differently but I still feel the same way. I

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Speaker 2: still would have taken out. They got a housed by Michigan. Michigan.

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Speaker 2: They didn't Vanderbilts, theydn't care about the game, cared enough

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Speaker 2: to play everybody. Michigan didn't. Michigan played their backups. They

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Speaker 2: weren't trying ja trying to. I was going to the draft.

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Speaker 3: Just to just to poke them, just to poke them.

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Speaker 3: That is what we do on here and and today

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Speaker 3: is gonna be a real pos.

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Speaker 2: This, This might be an all timer. This is gonna

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Speaker 2: be bun because this and I do want to.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to start something else, but just really quickly,

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Speaker 3: this is you were and I philosophy.

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Speaker 2: Oh hold on, you want some uh breaking news here

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Speaker 2: from Tom PELLISERA Okay, what is it? Multiple NFL teams

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Speaker 2: have inquired about whether legendary head coach Bill Belichick would

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Speaker 2: reconsider his move to college football, including the Raiders, whose

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Speaker 2: new minority owner Tom Brady spoke recently with his old coach.

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Speaker 2: Per league sources, that's that's what you interrupted my dad

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Speaker 2: for Brady and Belichick. Cool, Sorry, all right, anyways, the.

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Speaker 3: This is a our two philosophies just on football in general.

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Speaker 2: This is colliding right here, right.

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Speaker 3: This is the the Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, my Matt

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Speaker 3: Lafleur tight pants crew against a football guy. And this

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Speaker 3: is a catch twenty two, perfect dream scenario. If this

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Speaker 3: had to happen, these two guys been the top candidates.

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Speaker 3: Mike Rabel and Ben Johnson are the perfect top two

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Speaker 3: candidates for our philosophies. And how we differ in some

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Speaker 3: opinions here so's it's gonna be a doozy.

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Speaker 2: But look, we've talked about this stuff a lot in

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Speaker 2: the abstract in the what three years now we've been

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Speaker 2: doing this show, seven years we've been working together. We've

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Speaker 2: talked a lot about this stuff in the abstract. We've

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Speaker 2: never talked about it with such immediacy as it relates

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Speaker 2: to the Patriots.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean this is this is the decision

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Speaker 3: right now. Yeah, And then immediacy is a good word.

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Speaker 3: And I would just say, also, this is a major,

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Speaker 3: major decision for the direction of the franchise in which

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Speaker 3: way they want to take this thing. And the good

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Speaker 3: news is is that both guys there's no wrong answer

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Speaker 3: between Rabel and Ben Johnson. In my opinion, I think

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Speaker 3: we both feel this way.

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Speaker 2: They're one A and one B. We just might have

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Speaker 2: that in a slightly different owner. I can't stress this

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Speaker 2: enough because we're gonna say this, then we're gonna spend

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Speaker 2: the next two hours riffing apart the other person's candidate, right,

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Speaker 2: I think either way? Can I can I start this

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Speaker 2: yere like it really comes? They both have unknowns. Neither

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Speaker 2: one is a perfect slam dunk Homer and candidate. I

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Speaker 2: don't think there is one. Yeah, Honestly, the closest thing

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Speaker 2: might have been Brian Davalden. He's going back to the giants.

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Speaker 2: There is. So they both have their what IFFs, which

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Speaker 2: we'll discuss over the next two hours. It basically comes

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Speaker 2: down to which ifs would you rather deal with? What

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Speaker 2: questions do you think are more answerable between these two guys.

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Speaker 2: What do you feel better about having as kind of

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Speaker 2: an unknown going into the twenty twenty five season and beyond.

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Speaker 2: So I'm with you. If they hire Rabel great, If

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Speaker 2: they hire Ben Johnson great, I don't really want. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Flores is an interesting one to me too, agreed. Outside

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Speaker 2: of those three guys, now that day balls back in

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Speaker 2: New York, I don't know that I have a ton

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Speaker 2: of interest in anybody available besides that. Frankly, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think any of those three guys would be good options.

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Speaker 2: There is that a couple things. With Flores, you have

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Speaker 2: to wait first and foremost, right, a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: So Robert Kraft has talked about they want to go fast.

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Speaker 2: Their actions have reflected that, and that may be. That's

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Speaker 2: probably a factor. But between Johnson and Rabel and Flores,

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Speaker 2: any of them would be a good higher Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so that says the table. Obviously, we're gonna be

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Speaker 3: talking a lot about this. I do have a thought

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Speaker 3: on Drawd Mayo in the fallout of this situation with

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Speaker 3: Girod Mayo. I don't want to spend a ton of

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Speaker 3: time on that, but we haven't been on the air

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Speaker 3: since the news of his firing was announced, so I

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Speaker 3: do have a thought on that. And then we're going

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Speaker 3: to get into the coaching candidates and really peel this back.

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Speaker 3: But hey, Patriots fans, if you want to see Toyota

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Speaker 3: and down from no best job Milton Okay, I did

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Speaker 3: have Joe Milton on the agenda. Okay, all right, second hour,

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Speaker 3: when we have some time. I do have some Joe

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Speaker 3: Milton thoughts, as I'm sure you do too. If you

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Speaker 3: want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen

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Speaker 3: on TV, go to buy a Toyota dot com. It's

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Speaker 3: Toyota's official website for deals from the official vehicle of

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Speaker 3: the New England Patriots, Toyota Let's go places and easy

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Speaker 3: to drink, easy to enjoy, but like the official beer

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Speaker 3: sponsor of the New England Patriots. So I want to

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Speaker 3: go backwards first before we go forward and talk a

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Speaker 3: little bit about Jirod Mayo and the situation that led

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Speaker 3: to his firing and all that kind of stuff. I

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Speaker 3: know there's going to be a lot of stuff out

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Speaker 3: there now. Chad Graff had one in the Athletic this morning,

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Speaker 3: you know, those pieces that shed light on how things

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Speaker 3: were behind the scenes. I think the biggest thing to

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Speaker 3: me with Girod Mayo not being ready for this position

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Speaker 3: is that and he told us this point blank, just publicly.

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Speaker 2: He said.

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Speaker 3: Remember he used the line that I'm drinking from a

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Speaker 3: fire hose right now. So that was January February, Combine time,

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Speaker 3: right around their owners meetings, And when he said that,

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Speaker 3: I believe that Girard Mayo had a lot of ideas

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Speaker 3: and he actually mentioned this, I think, to one of

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Speaker 3: the broadcasts, one of the CBS or Fox or whatever,

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Speaker 3: one of those broadcasts. I believe that he had a

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Speaker 3: lot of ideas for what he wanted to implement in

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Speaker 3: a football program. And then he got the job and

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Speaker 3: he realized how much the job entailed, and how they

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Speaker 3: had to build a staff, and how they had to

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Speaker 3: catch up on the off season with free agency in

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Speaker 3: the draft and all these different types of things and

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Speaker 3: a lot of that stuff. He wasn't a to come

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Speaker 3: to fruition as fast as I think, what is what

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Speaker 3: the crafts had hoped and this is just my opinion,

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Speaker 3: but as fast as they had hoped that it would,

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Speaker 3: and it just didn't ever feel like he had control

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Speaker 3: of the position, like he had control of the situation

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Speaker 3: of the position, of all the things that went into

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Speaker 3: the position. And just as we move forward, because I

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Speaker 3: think now the more important story is moving forward, but

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Speaker 3: as we move forward here with the Patriots, the one

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Speaker 3: thing that I really feel strongly about that needs to

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Speaker 3: be done is whoever is going to come in next,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Rabel, Ben Johnson, Brian Flores, whoever, whoever is

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Speaker 3: going to come in next needs to rebuild the infrastructure

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Speaker 3: of the football program. And I'm not necessarily just talking

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Speaker 3: about like locker room culture. That's part of it, but

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Speaker 3: I'm also just talking about how they handle things from

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Speaker 3: a front office perspective, from a coaching staff perspective, like

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Speaker 3: you have to get the right coaches in here. You

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Speaker 3: have to get good coaches in here on all levels,

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Speaker 3: not just a coordinator level, but position coach level. And

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Speaker 3: I would also say that they have to get on

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Speaker 3: the front office side. They have to build a modern

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Speaker 3: front office. And I hate using the word modern, but

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Speaker 3: it's the only word I can really think of to

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Speaker 3: describe it. They have to get a modern front office

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Speaker 3: that is properly staffed, that is heading in the right

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Speaker 3: direction in terms of innovation and how teams are evaluating

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Speaker 3: and scouting, especially in the draft. And I'm not talking

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Speaker 3: about win probability models and I'm not talking about fourth

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Speaker 3: down decisions. But they are behind the curve, and we

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Speaker 3: know this that they're behind the curve when it comes

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Speaker 3: to analytics and a lot of the different things that

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Speaker 3: they use now a day's teams like the Chiefs, the Bills,

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Speaker 3: the Eagles, the Lions, like these teams are all using Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: They're using heavy amounts of in game tracking data analytics.

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Speaker 3: I'm not talking about win probability models and fourth down

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Speaker 3: decision making.

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Speaker 2: Are you just like switch, Why are you making that

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Speaker 2: hard for me? No? But that's everything I was gonna

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Speaker 2: come in and say, but this is really we're just

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Speaker 2: gonna talk about tight kaki pants and putting.

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Speaker 3: In we will, but this, this type of stuff is

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Speaker 3: important and whoever the candidate is needs to have a direction.

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Speaker 3: And I believe when they made the higher for girod

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Speaker 3: Mayo and they made that decision, they thought that girod

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Speaker 3: Mayo is going to be more prepared and have more

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Speaker 3: ideas for that side of things. And this has to

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Speaker 3: be brick by brick literally with the practice facility being

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Speaker 3: built as we speak, this has to be brick by

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Speaker 3: brick for this organization because if you don't start practicing

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Speaker 3: and uh, you know, preparing the right way, and again

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Speaker 3: not just about literal practice, like also you know, preparing

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Speaker 3: for the draft, preparing for free agency and doing those

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Speaker 3: things the right way. Again, this is not going to

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Speaker 3: get turned around just because you have a hard bleep

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Speaker 3: coach versus a player's coach, right or you have a

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Speaker 3: Rabel or Ben Johnson. They have to turn this around

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Speaker 3: from the ground up. And I definitely think that this

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Speaker 3: football program was run by one person for so long

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Speaker 3: who could wear so many different hats and was so

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Speaker 3: talented at wearing those many hats that when he left,

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Speaker 3: When Bill Belichick left, there was just a lot of

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Speaker 3: things to fill that just didn't get filled quick enough.

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Speaker 2: It's a hell of a take by you. Good job

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Speaker 2: you like you're gonna hear he use the word program

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Speaker 2: a lot today. Build a program, maintain a program, to

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Speaker 2: stay a program. And that's what that means. It is

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Speaker 2: more than culture, Like you want to get to a

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Speaker 2: point and this is way down the road, this is

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Speaker 2: gonna happen in your one but you lay the foundation

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Speaker 2: for it. And here when you want to get to

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Speaker 2: the point where it's a well oiled machine and it

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Speaker 2: kind of becomes self feeding right where. And this is

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Speaker 2: what Bill, more than anything else are as coach and GM.

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Speaker 2: He built a program. There was a routine, there were

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Speaker 2: core philosophies. Uh, there were pipelines, like everything was not

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Speaker 2: redund Yeah, redundant is the redundant in the word in

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Speaker 2: the sense that like if I'm trying to think of

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Speaker 2: an example of this, like there were there were fallback plans.

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Speaker 2: If a failed, you would be right there. Everything was streamlined.

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Speaker 2: That that's building a program. What are we looking for

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Speaker 2: in terms of the type of people we want? What

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Speaker 2: are we looking for in the types of players that

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Speaker 2: we want? What do we value? What are we putting

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Speaker 2: an emphasis on? It felt like under drawd Mayo that

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Speaker 2: kind of kept changing based on what the week was

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Speaker 2: and what what the narrative was around the team. There

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Speaker 2: was never a program in place. There was never the

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Speaker 2: foundation of a program in place. So you want and

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Speaker 2: it's gonna start from the coach. I know Elliott Wolf

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Speaker 2: is still here. Will he be here long term? Will

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Speaker 2: he still have final set? I want to get into

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Speaker 2: the final say thing, because I think that's important. But

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Speaker 2: this is gonna start with the coach, as it does

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Speaker 2: most places. You need a coach who can come in

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Speaker 2: and establish and start building that program. That to me,

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Speaker 2: I know people will say, Drake may is the most

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Speaker 2: important thing. You gotta do, it's best for him. I

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Speaker 2: think what's best for Drake May more than getting him

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Speaker 2: into bells and whistles. Offense is having a program around

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Speaker 2: him that is functional and will elevate not just him

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Speaker 2: but everybody in the organization. So when I look at

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Speaker 2: who should the next head coach be, who do I

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Speaker 2: trust to come in and establish that program and get

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Speaker 2: that program off and running. Yeah, and I understand that

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Speaker 2: side of it. Now. The other side of it is,

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Speaker 2: of course the football, and this is all football. But

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Speaker 2: this feeds the No, this feeds the football.

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Speaker 3: Right, This feeds the football, and the right football people

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Speaker 3: need to be back in charge of football. Yes, right,

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Speaker 3: And so that's a big thing too, I think with

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Speaker 3: the Patriots, So I guess the Patriots as well.

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Speaker 2: What I would say is like, the stronger your program

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Speaker 2: day to day, week to week, month to month, year

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Speaker 2: to year, the easier your life is on Sundays. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this isn't a corporate Oh, you know, organizational structuring

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Speaker 2: and you know flow char build, But no, it's like,

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Speaker 2: like you said, all right, what is are how are

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Speaker 2: we going to attack each week? In terms of meetings,

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Speaker 2: in terms of practices, in terms of this what kinds

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Speaker 2: of players do we what? Not figuring out getting to

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Speaker 2: camp and suddenly realizing all right, we have four like

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Speaker 2: half options at left tackle. What are we gonna do?

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Speaker 2: It's this is what we want on a left tackle.

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Speaker 2: These are the guys who are gonna fill it, who

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Speaker 2: could fill it? This is Plan A, Plan B, Plan

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Speaker 2: C to attain these players. Right, That's what I mean

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Speaker 2: by program. It's this isn't corporate speak. This is how

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Speaker 2: are you operating Monday to Saturday, January to July. So

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Speaker 2: when you get to the actual football of it, you

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Speaker 2: can just hit the ground and do the football. That's

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Speaker 2: what I mean by program. And then that bleeds over

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Speaker 2: to to how are the practice? It's how are you

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Speaker 2: operating Monday to Saturday to get to Sunday? Right, that

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Speaker 2: sort of thing. That's what a program is. It's more

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Speaker 2: used in college, but it's this concept applies to the

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Speaker 2: NFL too. That is just what are the core forul's,

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Speaker 2: What are the core beliefs, What are the cornerstones of

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Speaker 2: the organization you're trying to build?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And it's getting more popular. I would say

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Speaker 3: in the league now that this is a bigger deal

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Speaker 3: than the x's and o's and getting somebody that's great

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Speaker 3: at the x's and o's because you see the success

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Speaker 3: of Dan Campbell, You see the success of Jim Harbaugh

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Speaker 3: program in year one with the Chargers. You see the

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Speaker 3: success of some of these coaches that aren't specialists on

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Speaker 3: one side of the ball. Now at that being said, well,

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Speaker 3: you can be.

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Speaker 2: A specialist on one side of the ball and still

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Speaker 2: be a program builder, Like it's early in Minnesota. Well no,

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Speaker 2: but I would say Kevin O'Connor, it's early. So let's

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Speaker 2: see what that program. So part of the program thing

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Speaker 2: is like. And this is where I go back to Bill.

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Speaker 2: We'll get into this more about the coordinators. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So I really like the program that they've built Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: Part of that is the defense is great. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: an out and O'Connell's done a great job at the

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Speaker 2: offense and all that justin Jefferson, but it's one of

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Speaker 2: the best defenses in the league under a donald they

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Speaker 2: have been with an offensive coach. Big part of that

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Speaker 2: is Brian Flores. Let's see what it is, right, So

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Speaker 2: do you have instead of having to go out and

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Speaker 2: scramble and get a defensive coordinator from outside to us

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Speaker 2: to learn all the ins and outs and is going

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Speaker 2: to make changes and potentially get the reset button and

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Speaker 2: things like that. Did your program produce a pipeline as

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Speaker 2: they did here for years and years and years, from

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Speaker 2: Romeo Curnell to Genie to Dean pis Is in there,

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Speaker 2: Patricia Flores Right on the offensive, one's easier to due.

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Speaker 2: I don't why I did the defense, but because it's

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Speaker 2: there was more stops. Honestly, that's true. But like, let's

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Speaker 2: see if if Kevin O'Connell's program has produced a pipeline

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Speaker 2: on the defense where Floora's out, next guy's in, boom, seamless.

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Speaker 3: So I agree with you that Minnesota is a good

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Speaker 3: example of that. Now we have to mention that with Minnesota,

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Speaker 3: Quezi is a big, big part of that. Their general manager.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to try to pronounce his last night

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Speaker 3: because IM going to, but so I'm just gonna call

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Speaker 3: him Quezi. He is a major, major part of that,

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Speaker 3: on the personnel side of building this program, right, And

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Speaker 3: Quezi is an analytics guy and he's.

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Speaker 2: Also a full a football guy.

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Speaker 3: But he's you know, he's got his hand in both buckets,

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Speaker 3: which is becoming a lot more popular from that side

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Speaker 3: of things. Now, with all that being said, when we

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Speaker 3: start to unpack these two candidates, Rabel and Ben Johnson.

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Speaker 3: And I do want to put this out there that

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Speaker 3: my personal belief is that this is Mike Rabel's job,

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Speaker 3: if Mike Rabel wants the job. I do not necessarily

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Speaker 3: believe that this is a full fledged open process.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's.

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Speaker 3: A strong indication that Rabel is the guy. If he

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Speaker 3: comes in here on Thursday tomorrow and says I want

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Speaker 3: the job, we want you, we could this could move.

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Speaker 2: His job to lose basically. And look, maybe Ben Johnson

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Speaker 2: blows them away, maybe they're underwhelmed by Mike Rabel's pitch.

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Speaker 2: But I think as things stay and right now, like

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Speaker 2: he's the he's the leader in the clubhouse.

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Speaker 3: Yes, And I think that there's a there's a school

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Speaker 3: that says Ben Johnson has been the number one offensive

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Speaker 3: minded Guru candidate for two cycles in a row, So

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Speaker 3: we at least need to hear this guy out right,

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Speaker 3: you know, as they should they should to hear him out.

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Speaker 3: I am not and it's not me carrying any water.

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Speaker 3: I am just not that upset that they're not gonna

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Speaker 3: do some search that includes fifteen different candidates, Like, I'm

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Speaker 3: not that upset about it.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: Do I think that the Pep Hamilton in the in

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Speaker 3: the Byron left which of it all was a little bit, Yes,

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Speaker 3: But I am not upset that they're not calling in,

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Speaker 3: you know, Mike Kafka and Todd Monkin and uh Drew

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Speaker 3: Petsing and you know all these other names that are

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Speaker 3: being floated around because I Aaron Glenn, you know, I'm

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Speaker 3: with you.

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Speaker 2: I think it's Rabel, Johnson.

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Speaker 3: Flores are the only three guys that I really have

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Speaker 3: a ton of interest in, and all these other guys like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's always great to hear a differing ideas in different perspectives.

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Speaker 3: But if we're gonna be real and we're gonna be

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Speaker 3: serious about who's truly a candidate for this job, it's

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Speaker 3: those three men.

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Speaker 2: If they want to move fast, like they say, they do,

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Speaker 2: talk to the real options, the real options, and by

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Speaker 2: all reports, they are one of, if not the most

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Speaker 2: attractive job out there. So you should have your pick.

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Speaker 2: The best candidates this cycle with Brian Dabag going back

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Speaker 2: to New York are Ben Johnson, Mike Rabel, and Brian Flores.

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Speaker 2: They can't talk to Flores for two more weeks, so

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Speaker 2: because of the way they talked to the coaching search.

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Speaker 2: They can talk to him virtually next week after the

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Speaker 2: wildcard round, but they can't even put in a request

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Speaker 2: until now, and they can't, so that's why there has

365
00:19:08,138 --> 00:19:11,618
Speaker 2: to be in person until after the divisional. Johnson's in

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Speaker 2: virtual two.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, he's virtual, but because they're on the buy,

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Speaker 3: they can interview him virtually this week.

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Speaker 2: So no, I'm with Now, Look when we get to

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Speaker 2: offensive coordinator defensive coordinator, that's another question that should be

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Speaker 2: very wide ranging.

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Speaker 3: So I disagree to an extent. Well, some it depends

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Speaker 3: on who the coaches if if Mike Rabel comes in.

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Speaker 3: And this is another criticism that I had of the

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Speaker 3: girod Mayo move was that there was really no girod

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Speaker 3: Mayo had no Rolodex to pull from. Basically, all the

377
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Speaker 3: new coaches that came in with the Patriots last year,

378
00:19:46,698 --> 00:19:51,058
Speaker 3: Alex van Pelt, Jeremy Springer, Jerry Montgomery, Drew Wilkins, like

379
00:19:51,138 --> 00:19:55,618
Speaker 3: those guys were all Elliott Wolf connections. Jeremy Springer went

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Speaker 3: on the radio as recently as like last week and

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Speaker 3: said he didn't even know Gerrod before he got here.

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Speaker 3: It was Elliott Wolf that was his connection. We obviously

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Speaker 3: know Van Pelt was a wolf guy. So one of

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Speaker 3: the things that are appealing to me with both these

385
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Speaker 3: candidates is that Mike Rabel has had a year. You know,

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Speaker 3: he's consulting with the Browns, but he's had a year

387
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Speaker 3: to reset and build a staff and say put out

388
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Speaker 3: feelers to coordinators on both sides of the ball, who

389
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Speaker 3: are who's coming with me? And Ben Johnson's had really

390
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Speaker 3: three cycles now to make sure that he has that

391
00:20:30,578 --> 00:20:33,218
Speaker 3: and down too. And there's some rumors like Mark Brunell

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Speaker 3: maybe is offensive coordinator move. I know that would be

393
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Speaker 3: testy and.

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Speaker 2: I for a number of reasons.

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Speaker 3: Now, I don't know if this changes things. With lou

396
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Speaker 3: Ana Mariumo getting fired by the Bengals, him and Big

397
00:20:46,778 --> 00:20:48,938
Speaker 3: Lou spent a lot of time together in Miami on

398
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Speaker 3: the Dolphin staff, which, by the way, have you ever

399
00:20:51,698 --> 00:20:53,898
Speaker 3: just side note real quick, have you ever looked at

400
00:20:53,898 --> 00:20:55,338
Speaker 3: that Miami Dolphin staff.

401
00:20:55,738 --> 00:21:01,658
Speaker 2: I did this. That's absolutely Washington was Joe Golbin was

402
00:21:01,698 --> 00:21:05,018
Speaker 2: the head coach for most of it. But it's Dan Campbell,

403
00:21:05,418 --> 00:21:10,818
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson, lou and Marumo uh the new the interim

404
00:21:10,818 --> 00:21:14,418
Speaker 2: coach in New Orleans. What Rizzy, Like there's like four

405
00:21:14,698 --> 00:21:18,058
Speaker 2: head coaches on that it's that Washington staff. It's the

406
00:21:18,058 --> 00:21:18,417
Speaker 2: same thing.

407
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's a lot of connections there with that

408
00:21:20,658 --> 00:21:23,578
Speaker 3: Miami staff in terms of Ben Johnson of guys that

409
00:21:23,658 --> 00:21:26,978
Speaker 3: maybe he could be bringing Big Lou Rizzy if he

410
00:21:27,018 --> 00:21:31,498
Speaker 3: doesn't get another job, which he probably won't, teams coordinator,

411
00:21:31,618 --> 00:21:34,538
Speaker 3: he could be the special teams coordinator here. And those

412
00:21:34,578 --> 00:21:37,538
Speaker 3: things are to me are so appealing. And why the

413
00:21:37,618 --> 00:21:40,578
Speaker 3: move with Gerard Mayo was made, because what was the

414
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Speaker 3: pivot with Gerrod? Right, Like, he already went through a

415
00:21:43,138 --> 00:21:46,378
Speaker 3: coaching hiring cycle once in terms of his staff where

416
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Speaker 3: he really was flying by the seat of his pants

417
00:21:48,418 --> 00:21:50,578
Speaker 3: and didn't have a ton of options. So what was

418
00:21:50,618 --> 00:21:53,258
Speaker 3: the pivot in terms of offensive coordinator? Maybe you could

419
00:21:53,258 --> 00:21:55,698
Speaker 3: have gotten josh on here, but now that's a weird

420
00:21:55,898 --> 00:21:58,298
Speaker 3: I want to say Josh McDaniels, But that's a weird

421
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Speaker 3: sort of dynamic there. So these guys should come in

422
00:22:02,458 --> 00:22:05,498
Speaker 3: turn key, like they should already have a very very

423
00:22:05,538 --> 00:22:08,858
Speaker 3: short list of who they're considering for these positions.

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Speaker 2: And let me be clear with Rabel too, because I

425
00:22:10,618 --> 00:22:12,698
Speaker 2: think some people are missing this unless they saw the

426
00:22:12,698 --> 00:22:15,498
Speaker 2: sports supposing the clip of me saying this everywhere this morning,

427
00:22:16,138 --> 00:22:20,458
Speaker 2: Mike Vrabel is not. This isn't Oh, You're just going

428
00:22:20,538 --> 00:22:23,898
Speaker 2: back to the Belichick tree. No, Rabel as a coach

429
00:22:23,978 --> 00:22:28,458
Speaker 2: is independent of Bill Belichick, almost entirely. So he was

430
00:22:28,538 --> 00:22:34,978
Speaker 2: hired in at Ohio State when Jim Tressel was like there,

431
00:22:35,018 --> 00:22:38,498
Speaker 2: but he was suspended. Luke Fickle was the interim. He

432
00:22:38,578 --> 00:22:41,498
Speaker 2: then worked for Erben Meyer. He goes to Houston where

433
00:22:41,498 --> 00:22:43,498
Speaker 2: he works for Bill O'Brien, So that's as close he

434
00:22:43,538 --> 00:22:45,818
Speaker 2: got to the Belichick tree, but it is another program,

435
00:22:46,018 --> 00:22:49,258
Speaker 2: is Bill O'Brien's program, which did differ from Belichick's program,

436
00:22:49,338 --> 00:22:53,458
Speaker 2: and Houston made different connections there, goes to Tennessee. He

437
00:22:53,498 --> 00:22:56,458
Speaker 2: had Dean Peas as his defensive coordinator. But besides that,

438
00:22:57,058 --> 00:22:59,697
Speaker 2: just for a couple of years, Shane Bill really not

439
00:23:00,058 --> 00:23:03,298
Speaker 2: And I think P's was like the only Patriot stat

440
00:23:03,298 --> 00:23:05,378
Speaker 2: guy who had been here who was high level on

441
00:23:05,418 --> 00:23:08,138
Speaker 2: the coaching stat completely different. The front office was different.

442
00:23:08,178 --> 00:23:10,578
Speaker 2: But I would not want him bringing John Robinson here

443
00:23:10,578 --> 00:23:12,538
Speaker 2: and I don't think he will, so I'm not too

444
00:23:12,578 --> 00:23:15,098
Speaker 2: worried about that. And then he went to Cleveland where

445
00:23:15,218 --> 00:23:17,378
Speaker 2: he worked for Stefanski, so he may have more in

446
00:23:17,378 --> 00:23:19,978
Speaker 2: common at this point with Elliot Wolf than Bill Belichick. Look,

447
00:23:20,018 --> 00:23:22,218
Speaker 2: he learned a lot about football from Bill Belichick. I

448
00:23:22,218 --> 00:23:24,298
Speaker 2: think as a player you more learned the culture side,

449
00:23:24,298 --> 00:23:27,898
Speaker 2: which is important in the search. But he's he's been around,

450
00:23:27,978 --> 00:23:32,738
Speaker 2: he's independent of bell Check in terms of the coaching tree,

451
00:23:32,778 --> 00:23:36,258
Speaker 2: like it's he's He's had his own path, he's made

452
00:23:36,298 --> 00:23:39,338
Speaker 2: his own connections. He's been separate to that. So I

453
00:23:40,138 --> 00:23:43,698
Speaker 2: think I don't think it's like, oh another retread. Look,

454
00:23:43,698 --> 00:23:46,378
Speaker 2: could he bring back Belichick? Guys? Sure, I know he's

455
00:23:46,418 --> 00:23:49,218
Speaker 2: kind of There's been some rumors that maybe Josh McDaniels.

456
00:23:49,618 --> 00:23:52,178
Speaker 2: I wouldn't love that. I wouldn't hate it. I'd rather

457
00:23:52,298 --> 00:23:55,858
Speaker 2: see him go back to that offense he was running

458
00:23:55,858 --> 00:23:59,058
Speaker 2: in Tennessee with Arthur Smith and Matt Lafleur. You saw

459
00:23:59,058 --> 00:24:01,218
Speaker 2: what that did for Ryan Tannehill, who I think has

460
00:24:01,258 --> 00:24:05,098
Speaker 2: some physical comparisons to Drake May. So Drake May's obviously

461
00:24:05,138 --> 00:24:08,338
Speaker 2: a much better player, but Drake May and that offense

462
00:24:08,418 --> 00:24:10,338
Speaker 2: would intrigue me. You got to you know, they had

463
00:24:10,378 --> 00:24:14,098
Speaker 2: Derrick Henry, but you make adjustments. But it's not gonna

464
00:24:14,098 --> 00:24:17,418
Speaker 2: be Rabel suddenly bringing back all these guys that were

465
00:24:17,418 --> 00:24:20,178
Speaker 2: here for twenty years. There's gonna be a couple. There

466
00:24:20,258 --> 00:24:22,378
Speaker 2: might be some guys that were here like Vrabel as

467
00:24:22,378 --> 00:24:25,898
Speaker 2: players but have their own independent coaching backgrounds. Wes Welker,

468
00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:29,338
Speaker 2: for instance, he overlapped with in Houston. But he's gonna

469
00:24:29,378 --> 00:24:31,978
Speaker 2: have It's not like draw to your point where it's

470
00:24:32,098 --> 00:24:33,778
Speaker 2: just all right. He was here in New England. He

471
00:24:33,778 --> 00:24:35,778
Speaker 2: knows the guys who were here in New England. There's

472
00:24:35,818 --> 00:24:38,978
Speaker 2: a much vasus. He has a much more vast network. Yeah.

473
00:24:39,018 --> 00:24:41,138
Speaker 3: So when I was at the Senior Bowl last year,

474
00:24:41,418 --> 00:24:45,538
Speaker 3: I actually bumped into Mike rabel Uh and he was

475
00:24:45,578 --> 00:24:47,538
Speaker 3: there as a coaching free agent at the time. He

476
00:24:47,578 --> 00:24:51,018
Speaker 3: hadn't signed a contract with the Browns and I didn't

477
00:24:51,018 --> 00:24:54,058
Speaker 3: speak with him or anything, but I just noticed he

478
00:24:54,098 --> 00:24:59,338
Speaker 3: was there. And when he's there to network, right, he's

479
00:24:59,378 --> 00:25:02,418
Speaker 3: there to talk to executives, to talk to coaches, to

480
00:25:02,938 --> 00:25:07,778
Speaker 3: network and make connections and build build relationships so that

481
00:25:08,138 --> 00:25:10,738
Speaker 3: when he gets his next crack at it, he has

482
00:25:10,778 --> 00:25:14,498
Speaker 3: a Rolodex to then go to and say this is

483
00:25:14,538 --> 00:25:16,378
Speaker 3: what I want, you know, these are the people that

484
00:25:16,418 --> 00:25:18,098
Speaker 3: I want to work with. These are this this is

485
00:25:18,138 --> 00:25:21,498
Speaker 3: my staff, these are my coordinators, so on and so forth. Yeah,

486
00:25:21,538 --> 00:25:24,298
Speaker 3: so all that is intriguing. Now we disagree a little

487
00:25:24,338 --> 00:25:28,138
Speaker 3: bit on the direction in terms of Rabel and Ben Johnson,

488
00:25:28,418 --> 00:25:30,218
Speaker 3: and I want to unpack that. We've been texting about

489
00:25:30,258 --> 00:25:32,298
Speaker 3: it back and forth, trying to save it for the show.

490
00:25:32,658 --> 00:25:37,338
Speaker 3: So I guess my biggest issue, and like you said,

491
00:25:37,378 --> 00:25:41,378
Speaker 3: both of them have issues, have concerns, and that every

492
00:25:41,538 --> 00:25:42,698
Speaker 3: there's no perfect candidate.

493
00:25:42,698 --> 00:25:46,458
Speaker 2: They're all going to have concerns. So my biggest issue

494
00:25:46,858 --> 00:25:53,378
Speaker 2: with Rabel is that I worry about the overall direction

495
00:25:53,498 --> 00:25:57,418
Speaker 2: of the offense. I worry about Drake May's development because

496
00:25:57,738 --> 00:26:00,378
Speaker 2: he is not coming in. Rabel is not coming in

497
00:26:00,418 --> 00:26:03,898
Speaker 2: specifically to run the offense or call offensive place I

498
00:26:03,938 --> 00:26:07,618
Speaker 2: hope not. Ben Johnson, on the other hand, might have

499
00:26:07,658 --> 00:26:10,778
Speaker 2: some of the experience program building things that we can

500
00:26:10,818 --> 00:26:14,258
Speaker 2: talk about in terms of his concerns, but what I'm

501
00:26:14,298 --> 00:26:17,618
Speaker 2: definitely sure of is that he's going to run a

502
00:26:17,698 --> 00:26:22,378
Speaker 2: damn good scheme, right, And so you have the model

503
00:26:23,098 --> 00:26:28,538
Speaker 2: of Shanahan, McVeigh, Lafleur, O'Connell, McDaniel, Mike.

504
00:26:28,778 --> 00:26:30,338
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, sure, if you want to go down the

505
00:26:30,538 --> 00:26:33,258
Speaker 3: rabbit hole. But we can go down the rabbit hole

506
00:26:33,298 --> 00:26:36,218
Speaker 3: on the culture side too, And for every Dan Campbell,

507
00:26:36,258 --> 00:26:39,498
Speaker 3: there's Doug Peterson, right, So it goes both ways. My

508
00:26:39,858 --> 00:26:43,498
Speaker 3: point being this, if you look at the teams that

509
00:26:43,538 --> 00:26:46,658
Speaker 3: are winning Super Bowls and are competing for Super Bowls,

510
00:26:47,098 --> 00:26:50,538
Speaker 3: a lot of those teams have the tight pants guy.

511
00:26:50,738 --> 00:26:53,018
Speaker 3: It's just a fact, right, It just And I know

512
00:26:53,058 --> 00:26:57,578
Speaker 3: Andy Reid is his own I'm not I'm not counting

513
00:26:57,578 --> 00:27:01,098
Speaker 3: any Reid, but that's a big part of it. And

514
00:27:01,178 --> 00:27:03,898
Speaker 3: a big part of it is Drake May. And what

515
00:27:04,018 --> 00:27:06,778
Speaker 3: I worry about with Rabel. And you can make the

516
00:27:06,898 --> 00:27:08,657
Speaker 3: argument that he just played this way because he had

517
00:27:08,698 --> 00:27:11,738
Speaker 3: Derrick Henry and that was what fit them best. But

518
00:27:12,098 --> 00:27:15,818
Speaker 3: I don't want to turn a Drake May into an

519
00:27:15,898 --> 00:27:19,178
Speaker 3: under center, turn around hand the ball off in a

520
00:27:19,218 --> 00:27:22,418
Speaker 3: two back set to the running back and then like

521
00:27:22,498 --> 00:27:24,657
Speaker 3: every three plays, we're gonna call play action and get

522
00:27:24,738 --> 00:27:26,138
Speaker 3: him on the move and make it let him throw

523
00:27:26,178 --> 00:27:28,738
Speaker 3: it down the field. I want to build this offense

524
00:27:28,778 --> 00:27:32,298
Speaker 3: around Drake May. I want him to be the engine

525
00:27:32,338 --> 00:27:35,578
Speaker 3: of the offense, much like Josh Allen is the engine

526
00:27:35,578 --> 00:27:38,778
Speaker 3: of the offense in Buffalo. And I worry about with

527
00:27:38,898 --> 00:27:41,378
Speaker 3: Rabel that it's gonna be a little old school. And

528
00:27:41,418 --> 00:27:44,098
Speaker 3: I'm not necessarily saying old school in terms of it's

529
00:27:44,098 --> 00:27:45,098
Speaker 3: gonna be Belichickian.

530
00:27:45,178 --> 00:27:46,658
Speaker 2: I'm just saying old school.

531
00:27:46,578 --> 00:27:50,498
Speaker 3: That it's gonna be a run first offense, play good defense,

532
00:27:51,018 --> 00:27:53,578
Speaker 3: be sound in all three phases, and we're gonna win

533
00:27:53,618 --> 00:27:55,018
Speaker 3: Game seventeen to quarantine.

534
00:27:55,058 --> 00:27:58,098
Speaker 2: I think that. I like, I get that, and I

535
00:27:58,098 --> 00:28:01,698
Speaker 2: know I just said the Tennessee offense. Obviously, you're it's

536
00:28:01,778 --> 00:28:05,338
Speaker 2: that overarching idea, but you're you're building that around Drake

537
00:28:05,418 --> 00:28:07,738
Speaker 2: Man when he's better in Tannehill, so you have him

538
00:28:07,778 --> 00:28:12,178
Speaker 2: do more things than Tannehill did. Of course, you have

539
00:28:12,338 --> 00:28:15,138
Speaker 2: Drake May. You're gonna have your pick of your offensive coordinators. Right,

540
00:28:15,338 --> 00:28:19,618
Speaker 2: what if you hire rabel So he was in Houston,

541
00:28:20,138 --> 00:28:23,018
Speaker 2: he was in Tennessee, he was in Cleveland. Those were

542
00:28:23,098 --> 00:28:27,218
Speaker 2: three different offensive systems. Essentially, it is some overlap between

543
00:28:27,378 --> 00:28:28,698
Speaker 2: what he's doing in Tennessee and what he was doing

544
00:28:28,738 --> 00:28:31,898
Speaker 2: in Cleveland, but there's differences there. I don't see him

545
00:28:31,898 --> 00:28:34,098
Speaker 2: as a guy that's going to be married to one

546
00:28:34,138 --> 00:28:38,498
Speaker 2: offensive system. I think he's going to do what he

547
00:28:38,618 --> 00:28:42,658
Speaker 2: believes is best for the offense, what's best for Drake

548
00:28:42,698 --> 00:28:44,578
Speaker 2: may like, I don't think he's married to we have

549
00:28:44,698 --> 00:28:47,938
Speaker 2: to be this identity on offense because he's a defensive coach.

550
00:28:48,458 --> 00:28:50,778
Speaker 3: Fair the question that you have for Abel when he

551
00:28:50,778 --> 00:28:53,378
Speaker 3: sits down at the table, because I'm you're not worried

552
00:28:53,378 --> 00:28:54,978
Speaker 3: about all the stuff that we just talked about for

553
00:28:55,018 --> 00:28:55,818
Speaker 3: the first twenty minute.

554
00:28:55,858 --> 00:28:58,618
Speaker 2: No, you're you're not worried. You're worried about the offensive coordinator.

555
00:28:58,618 --> 00:28:59,738
Speaker 2: Which who's your coordinator?

556
00:28:59,778 --> 00:29:05,458
Speaker 3: Higher and if it's Josh McDaniels, Okay, but how is

557
00:29:05,538 --> 00:29:09,338
Speaker 3: Josh McDaniels going to bring that offense to the twenty.

558
00:29:09,258 --> 00:29:12,618
Speaker 2: Well to me twenty twenty five? Which Josh McDaniel's offense,

559
00:29:13,498 --> 00:29:15,818
Speaker 2: remember me? Like, is it the Brady offense? Or is

560
00:29:15,818 --> 00:29:16,858
Speaker 2: it the Cam Newton offense?

561
00:29:18,218 --> 00:29:20,218
Speaker 3: I mean the Cam Newton offense I think was done

562
00:29:20,258 --> 00:29:22,738
Speaker 3: out of desperation, Like, I don't think that that's truly

563
00:29:22,738 --> 00:29:23,618
Speaker 3: who Josh is.

564
00:29:23,658 --> 00:29:27,418
Speaker 2: Like Josh Josh McDaniels is Brady mac Jones. Okay, what

565
00:29:27,498 --> 00:29:31,058
Speaker 2: he tried to do in Vegas? But different was was there?

566
00:29:31,418 --> 00:29:34,178
Speaker 2: Did we see Josh McDaniels could develop a run game

567
00:29:34,178 --> 00:29:35,258
Speaker 2: for a quarterback? Yes? Or no?

568
00:29:35,978 --> 00:29:40,178
Speaker 3: We did, But again I don't know. I don't think

569
00:29:40,178 --> 00:29:42,898
Speaker 3: that's his preferred route, but he did it.

570
00:29:43,058 --> 00:29:45,618
Speaker 2: He did it. That's and I wonder maybe that's part

571
00:29:45,658 --> 00:29:48,818
Speaker 2: of it. Maybe if Rabel says, McDaniels, you talk to

572
00:29:48,898 --> 00:29:51,258
Speaker 2: McDaniels and you said, all right, is this gonna be?

573
00:29:52,338 --> 00:29:54,058
Speaker 2: You know, is it? Are we gonna try to turn

574
00:29:54,138 --> 00:29:56,018
Speaker 2: Drake me and to Tom Brady or are we gonna

575
00:29:56,018 --> 00:29:57,658
Speaker 2: have some of these other elements in here like you

576
00:29:57,738 --> 00:30:00,378
Speaker 2: had with Cam Newton. You know another guy that's been

577
00:30:00,378 --> 00:30:02,578
Speaker 2: floated as Tommy Reese, who I'm not a big fan of,

578
00:30:02,618 --> 00:30:05,178
Speaker 2: but he's kind of done some more modern things. He

579
00:30:05,258 --> 00:30:08,818
Speaker 2: was at Alabama with I think he was there with Bryce,

580
00:30:09,498 --> 00:30:11,898
Speaker 2: he was there with Milroe. So he's done some of that.

581
00:30:13,298 --> 00:30:15,258
Speaker 2: And this gets to kind of my other point about Rabel.

582
00:30:15,298 --> 00:30:16,978
Speaker 2: And when you get to Rabel verus Ben Johnson again,

583
00:30:17,138 --> 00:30:21,218
Speaker 2: I think are both good candidates. Right, Let's say you

584
00:30:21,258 --> 00:30:24,138
Speaker 2: don't get it right with Rabel on the offensive coordinator higher,

585
00:30:24,218 --> 00:30:27,658
Speaker 2: Let's say the first year isn't good. You can move

586
00:30:27,658 --> 00:30:30,178
Speaker 2: on from the offensive coordinator. Let's say you hire Ben

587
00:30:30,218 --> 00:30:32,018
Speaker 2: Jons and you find out in a year he can't

588
00:30:32,018 --> 00:30:35,298
Speaker 2: do the program stuff. That's a much harder pivot to

589
00:30:35,338 --> 00:30:40,658
Speaker 2: make so I do think Mike Vrabel can find the

590
00:30:40,698 --> 00:30:44,458
Speaker 2: right offensive coordinator because he did it in Tennessee. He

591
00:30:44,578 --> 00:30:47,178
Speaker 2: built a good program in Tennessee, and he was able

592
00:30:47,178 --> 00:30:50,298
Speaker 2: to find not just one, not just one. But when

593
00:30:50,338 --> 00:30:54,058
Speaker 2: Matt Laffler left, he was able to identify Arthur Smith

594
00:30:54,098 --> 00:30:55,098
Speaker 2: and get to the next guy.

595
00:30:55,258 --> 00:30:58,538
Speaker 3: But I pushed back a little bit on good offenses,

596
00:30:58,618 --> 00:31:02,298
Speaker 3: Like he had a good offense in Tennessee that was

597
00:31:02,338 --> 00:31:04,098
Speaker 3: not a super Bowl caliber offense.

598
00:31:04,138 --> 00:31:07,138
Speaker 2: No, but they had Ryan Tannehill. Okay, Drake May, Okay,

599
00:31:07,178 --> 00:31:10,018
Speaker 2: but I love Drake May. You know that. But he's

600
00:31:10,018 --> 00:31:11,778
Speaker 2: still got a lot of developing he does.

601
00:31:11,898 --> 00:31:13,818
Speaker 3: So that's that's going to be part of it, right

602
00:31:13,858 --> 00:31:16,498
Speaker 3: And now you know we're talking about things about his

603
00:31:17,098 --> 00:31:19,978
Speaker 3: Drake May's whole development in year two here, So let

604
00:31:20,018 --> 00:31:22,178
Speaker 3: me ask you a year, you know, the footwork changes,

605
00:31:23,258 --> 00:31:24,818
Speaker 3: what is he going to be? You know, his eighty

606
00:31:24,858 --> 00:31:27,058
Speaker 3: five percent of the time he threw a pass from

607
00:31:27,178 --> 00:31:29,618
Speaker 3: shotgun this year, that's not a very high percentage of

608
00:31:29,698 --> 00:31:32,698
Speaker 3: under center. Is a coach that comes in like McDaniels

609
00:31:32,698 --> 00:31:34,978
Speaker 3: are a West Coast coach that isn't Alex van pel

610
00:31:35,258 --> 00:31:36,378
Speaker 3: gonna want to run it more?

611
00:31:36,418 --> 00:31:37,178
Speaker 2: From under center.

612
00:31:37,338 --> 00:31:39,698
Speaker 3: We know McDaniels is gonna want to come in and

613
00:31:39,738 --> 00:31:42,738
Speaker 3: be under center, two back, full back in the backfield

614
00:31:42,978 --> 00:31:44,618
Speaker 3: and ram it down people's throats.

615
00:31:44,658 --> 00:31:46,498
Speaker 2: We know that that's the type of offense he's gonna

616
00:31:46,498 --> 00:31:47,018
Speaker 2: want to run.

617
00:31:47,258 --> 00:31:50,258
Speaker 3: And that's exactly what Rabel did in Tennessee. So that's aligned.

618
00:31:50,498 --> 00:31:51,778
Speaker 3: So I just I just.

619
00:31:51,698 --> 00:31:53,378
Speaker 2: Looked he was he was in Cleveland last year, he

620
00:31:53,378 --> 00:31:56,138
Speaker 2: had experienced with a different offense. What if he calls

621
00:31:56,138 --> 00:31:57,018
Speaker 2: a glec Josh McCown.

622
00:31:58,458 --> 00:32:01,298
Speaker 3: Okay, So then the issue with Josh McCown is that

623
00:32:01,338 --> 00:32:03,458
Speaker 3: he's already getting some buzz to be a head coach

624
00:32:03,578 --> 00:32:07,098
Speaker 3: this cycle. So he comes here, he calls plays, he

625
00:32:07,178 --> 00:32:09,458
Speaker 3: looks great doing it, and then you're looking for a

626
00:32:09,458 --> 00:32:12,058
Speaker 3: new offensive coordinator in twenty So this is this is

627
00:32:12,098 --> 00:32:14,778
Speaker 3: where the program builder element comes in. In one year, you're

628
00:32:14,818 --> 00:32:17,058
Speaker 3: gonna build a pro. You're gonna get a coordinator ready

629
00:32:17,098 --> 00:32:18,538
Speaker 3: to replace McCown in one year.

630
00:32:18,618 --> 00:32:21,458
Speaker 2: He replaced Matt Lafleur in one year. It was longer

631
00:32:21,498 --> 00:32:23,098
Speaker 2: than one year. Wasn't pretty sure it's just one year.

632
00:32:23,138 --> 00:32:25,298
Speaker 2: I was looking before the show. Let me double check it.

633
00:32:25,458 --> 00:32:27,578
Speaker 2: Just I think it was just one year. It feels

634
00:32:27,578 --> 00:32:31,098
Speaker 2: to me like that it was just one year. He

635
00:32:31,178 --> 00:32:33,738
Speaker 2: came in twenty eighteen with the flour Well flour left

636
00:32:33,738 --> 00:32:35,778
Speaker 2: after the twenty eighteen season. It was Arthur Smith for

637
00:32:35,818 --> 00:32:39,458
Speaker 2: two years. Okay, but what was the stealing of those offenses?

638
00:32:39,498 --> 00:32:42,218
Speaker 2: Like REALI but those offenses had Ryan Tannehill.

639
00:32:42,298 --> 00:32:45,018
Speaker 3: Okay, but we you keep saying that, like Ryan Tannehill

640
00:32:45,058 --> 00:32:46,298
Speaker 3: was some bum in Tennessee.

641
00:32:46,498 --> 00:32:47,538
Speaker 2: He's like bum in Miami.

642
00:32:47,578 --> 00:32:51,418
Speaker 3: And Ryan Tannehill played really good football in Tennessee. If

643
00:32:51,498 --> 00:32:54,738
Speaker 3: Drake May puts up Ryan tannehill numbers, then we got

644
00:32:54,778 --> 00:32:57,378
Speaker 3: a superstar on our hands, because you're gonna look at

645
00:32:57,458 --> 00:32:59,858
Speaker 3: him differently than you look at Ryan Tannehill. You look

646
00:32:59,898 --> 00:33:03,138
Speaker 3: at Ryan Tannehill's box score stats in Tennessee's like thirty

647
00:33:03,138 --> 00:33:05,138
Speaker 3: five to seven touchdown Interesting, he's.

648
00:33:05,018 --> 00:33:07,058
Speaker 2: An MVP can one of those years. But that's my point,

649
00:33:07,298 --> 00:33:09,658
Speaker 2: you look at We can't just assume that Jake May

650
00:33:09,698 --> 00:33:11,778
Speaker 2: is gonna be gonna do that. He was my point.

651
00:33:11,978 --> 00:33:13,618
Speaker 2: You can't do that with Ben Johnson either.

652
00:33:14,018 --> 00:33:16,578
Speaker 3: But I have much better faith than Ben Johnson's scheming

653
00:33:16,578 --> 00:33:19,978
Speaker 3: an offense, and so I just again, this is what happens.

654
00:33:20,018 --> 00:33:22,858
Speaker 3: We know this is what happens. They're they're gonna continue

655
00:33:22,898 --> 00:33:25,778
Speaker 3: to cycle through offensive coordinators. They've done it in Buffalo.

656
00:33:25,818 --> 00:33:27,978
Speaker 2: I also like Buffalo is dealt with that too, And

657
00:33:28,058 --> 00:33:29,898
Speaker 2: so here's Josh Allen got to the point where he

658
00:33:29,938 --> 00:33:33,018
Speaker 2: was quarterback proved or see. So that's the other thing

659
00:33:33,058 --> 00:33:35,978
Speaker 2: with the cycling through coordinators. I think people are maybe

660
00:33:36,018 --> 00:33:37,578
Speaker 2: and I know I'm the guy that always talks about

661
00:33:37,578 --> 00:33:39,298
Speaker 2: make it as easy as possible in the quarterback and

662
00:33:39,298 --> 00:33:41,978
Speaker 2: I do still believe that, but specific specifically about a

663
00:33:41,978 --> 00:33:45,938
Speaker 2: young quarterback, right the faith quack, so he is right now.

664
00:33:46,138 --> 00:33:50,458
Speaker 2: But first off, on the account thing, Ben Johnson has

665
00:33:50,498 --> 00:33:56,378
Speaker 2: been this this generational candidate, yet he was in Detroit

666
00:33:56,418 --> 00:33:57,018
Speaker 2: for three years.

667
00:33:57,098 --> 00:33:59,618
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he held his water like it's different, Like

668
00:33:59,658 --> 00:34:00,978
Speaker 3: it's the same thing with Demiko Ryan.

669
00:34:01,098 --> 00:34:02,618
Speaker 2: But I think that's what a lot of these guys

670
00:34:02,618 --> 00:34:05,098
Speaker 2: are doing now. It slowly did it and it hurt him,

671
00:34:05,098 --> 00:34:07,538
Speaker 2: but slowly did the same thing. So the idea that

672
00:34:07,578 --> 00:34:10,538
Speaker 2: any offensive coordinator is going to be done one and

673
00:34:10,618 --> 00:34:13,897
Speaker 2: done because of Drake Man is not a guaranteed okay

674
00:34:14,258 --> 00:34:16,738
Speaker 2: years Okay, so you get two years with that coordinator. Again,

675
00:34:16,817 --> 00:34:20,938
Speaker 2: this is faith in Vrabel's program. Yet you you ideally

676
00:34:20,978 --> 00:34:22,698
Speaker 2: have the next guy in the pipeline, So two years,

677
00:34:22,738 --> 00:34:25,698
Speaker 2: one coordinator, two years and next coordinator. Now Drake may

678
00:34:25,738 --> 00:34:28,658
Speaker 2: has been in the league for six years. He should

679
00:34:28,698 --> 00:34:30,258
Speaker 2: be able to handle it. At that point in the

680
00:34:30,297 --> 00:34:33,578
Speaker 2: re is if your pipeline is strong enough, you're gonna

681
00:34:33,698 --> 00:34:36,138
Speaker 2: continue to pull guys from your system where the offense

682
00:34:36,218 --> 00:34:38,978
Speaker 2: isn't going to be changing a significant amount, if at all.

683
00:34:39,378 --> 00:34:42,378
Speaker 2: So if you have that pipeline, you don't need to

684
00:34:42,378 --> 00:34:45,058
Speaker 2: worry about losing guys because the system, the approach, the

685
00:34:45,178 --> 00:34:48,418
Speaker 2: program is the same. You know, Evan, You know, I

686
00:34:48,458 --> 00:34:50,618
Speaker 2: feel strongly about this if I'm willing to use Buffalo

687
00:34:50,658 --> 00:34:52,178
Speaker 2: as an example in a positive light.

688
00:34:52,258 --> 00:34:56,338
Speaker 3: But Buffalo Buffalo isn't. It goes both ways with Buffalo

689
00:34:56,618 --> 00:34:57,738
Speaker 3: because they've You've.

690
00:34:57,538 --> 00:34:59,978
Speaker 2: Wanted the Patriots to be the Bills for years. Rabel

691
00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:00,658
Speaker 2: makes them.

692
00:35:00,498 --> 00:35:03,018
Speaker 3: The Bills, but he but they fed it up at first.

693
00:35:03,378 --> 00:35:07,817
Speaker 3: They hired Ken Dorsey and the Dorsey Hire in twenty three,

694
00:35:07,818 --> 00:35:10,498
Speaker 3: which barely made it halfway through the season. They fired

695
00:35:10,578 --> 00:35:12,578
Speaker 3: him in season and replaced him with Joe Brady, but

696
00:35:12,618 --> 00:35:15,178
Speaker 3: at that point that basically cost them a run. But

697
00:35:15,298 --> 00:35:17,938
Speaker 3: they cost them to run out of Super Bowl that year.

698
00:35:17,978 --> 00:35:21,297
Speaker 2: But at that point, Josh Allen, who's to say that

699
00:35:21,458 --> 00:35:23,858
Speaker 2: the same would half with Ben Johnson a defensive coordinator.

700
00:35:24,138 --> 00:35:26,898
Speaker 2: The it happened in San Francisco this year, defense fell

701
00:35:26,898 --> 00:35:29,578
Speaker 2: apart because who did they hire Brandon Staley for some reason? No,

702
00:35:30,178 --> 00:35:32,218
Speaker 2: he was and even their defensive corn he had a

703
00:35:32,298 --> 00:35:34,618
Speaker 2: role in that defense. Maybe not by title, but he

704
00:35:34,618 --> 00:35:36,618
Speaker 2: had a role in that defense. Don't don't, don't move

705
00:35:36,658 --> 00:35:39,817
Speaker 2: the goal busts by the time, by the time, well,

706
00:35:39,858 --> 00:35:41,418
Speaker 2: those advisors are going to be important, We'll get to that.

707
00:35:41,458 --> 00:35:43,498
Speaker 2: When you get to Ben Jonson's He's like there, Ben

708
00:35:43,578 --> 00:35:46,018
Speaker 2: Mackett by the time, how that go. By the time

709
00:35:46,858 --> 00:35:49,817
Speaker 2: that they made the door, see mistake, Allen had been

710
00:35:49,858 --> 00:35:52,098
Speaker 2: in the league long enough and developed long enough that

711
00:35:52,138 --> 00:35:54,857
Speaker 2: he survived it. And did it cost them a run, Yes,

712
00:35:54,858 --> 00:35:56,777
Speaker 2: but they're gonna continue to have a chance to go

713
00:35:56,818 --> 00:35:59,018
Speaker 2: on runs because of that talent.

714
00:35:59,138 --> 00:36:01,058
Speaker 3: And now so now Joe Brady's gonna get a head

715
00:36:01,058 --> 00:36:02,858
Speaker 3: coaching job, and they're gonna be replacing another.

716
00:36:02,738 --> 00:36:05,258
Speaker 2: Quarterator and you hope that the program is strong enough

717
00:36:05,298 --> 00:36:06,978
Speaker 2: to bring that next guy. So there's thing I think

718
00:36:07,058 --> 00:36:09,338
Speaker 2: Rabel's better program building than Sean McDermott. That's why I

719
00:36:09,378 --> 00:36:11,658
Speaker 2: keep thinking the Bills will fall off. To me, Vrabel's

720
00:36:11,698 --> 00:36:14,618
Speaker 2: a better version of Sean McDermott, much better version of

721
00:36:14,658 --> 00:36:18,538
Speaker 2: Sean McDermott. So if if you just get that first

722
00:36:18,578 --> 00:36:23,498
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator right to me, and that's not an insignificant

723
00:36:23,538 --> 00:36:25,938
Speaker 2: if I acknowledge it's a big if. But if you

724
00:36:25,938 --> 00:36:29,938
Speaker 2: get that first offensive coordinator right, I think you're often running.

725
00:36:29,938 --> 00:36:32,337
Speaker 2: If Rabel builds a program comparable the one he built

726
00:36:32,338 --> 00:36:35,498
Speaker 2: in Tennessee, because I trust him to, because he you know,

727
00:36:35,778 --> 00:36:37,418
Speaker 2: this is what we saw Bill do for years. I

728
00:36:37,418 --> 00:36:42,378
Speaker 2: trust him to identify not just the offensive coordinator, but quarterbacks, coach, receiver,

729
00:36:42,538 --> 00:36:45,258
Speaker 2: tight ends coach, offensive line coach, pass game coordinator, run

730
00:36:45,258 --> 00:36:47,698
Speaker 2: game coordinator, whatever it is. Like I think they tried

731
00:36:47,738 --> 00:36:50,338
Speaker 2: to do this year with Alexander Pelton T C McCartney.

732
00:36:50,538 --> 00:36:52,538
Speaker 2: Like if Van Pelt, let's say this year had gone well,

733
00:36:52,658 --> 00:36:55,218
Speaker 2: if Van Pelton got hired, away, it was all lined up.

734
00:36:55,338 --> 00:36:57,938
Speaker 2: But Van Pelt was never gonna get hired. Like let's say, hey,

735
00:36:58,258 --> 00:37:02,978
Speaker 2: he's twenty years into let's say he did. Then TC

736
00:37:03,098 --> 00:37:04,818
Speaker 2: McCarty was lined up to be the next guy, and boom,

737
00:37:04,818 --> 00:37:06,658
Speaker 2: it seamless. And to your point, van Pelt wasn't gonna

738
00:37:06,658 --> 00:37:09,817
Speaker 2: get hired away. What if Vrabel finds that guy?

739
00:37:09,978 --> 00:37:14,938
Speaker 3: But but van Pelt though, that's the point though, is

740
00:37:14,978 --> 00:37:18,098
Speaker 3: that to me that would have been moving too quickly,

741
00:37:18,298 --> 00:37:20,498
Speaker 3: right if Van Pelt got hired away after one season?

742
00:37:20,498 --> 00:37:22,938
Speaker 3: TC McCarty was not ready to be the coordinator. And

743
00:37:22,978 --> 00:37:25,658
Speaker 3: this is exactly what happened with Bill at the end.

744
00:37:26,098 --> 00:37:28,658
Speaker 3: Was that really the gun there was no pipeline. No,

745
00:37:29,018 --> 00:37:32,458
Speaker 3: that's not true. The pipeline was Achille. But Josh McDaniels

746
00:37:32,658 --> 00:37:35,018
Speaker 3: took a job that Bill was not expecting him to take,

747
00:37:35,378 --> 00:37:36,898
Speaker 3: and Nick Kelly was not ready.

748
00:37:37,178 --> 00:37:39,338
Speaker 2: So I think the idea that it's gonna happen in

749
00:37:39,378 --> 00:37:42,458
Speaker 2: one year, I'm not as confident that you lose the

750
00:37:42,498 --> 00:37:45,138
Speaker 2: coordinator in one year. I'm just not I I don't

751
00:37:45,178 --> 00:37:48,098
Speaker 2: think the ceiling for the offense is that high because

752
00:37:48,098 --> 00:37:50,978
Speaker 2: of the personnel, and we all know that, like Josh

753
00:37:51,058 --> 00:37:52,817
Speaker 2: McDaniel shouldn't have been hired at that point. I think

754
00:37:52,818 --> 00:37:54,658
Speaker 2: that's kind of become clear now by the Raiders. So

755
00:37:54,738 --> 00:37:57,738
Speaker 2: my bigger concern though, and well let me ask you

756
00:37:57,738 --> 00:38:02,018
Speaker 2: this too, who's to say that Mike Vrabel can't find

757
00:38:02,058 --> 00:38:04,338
Speaker 2: his Ben Johnson. Who is Ben Johnson? When Dan Campbell

758
00:38:04,418 --> 00:38:04,938
Speaker 2: hired him.

759
00:38:05,498 --> 00:38:09,218
Speaker 3: It's a hot commodity Ben So Ben Johnson? What makes

760
00:38:09,298 --> 00:38:10,258
Speaker 3: him so appealing to me?

761
00:38:11,178 --> 00:38:13,658
Speaker 2: Along with just the receivers coach in Miami?

762
00:38:13,778 --> 00:38:15,857
Speaker 3: He I mean he coached every position in Miami. He's

763
00:38:15,938 --> 00:38:19,058
Speaker 3: quarterbacks coach, wide receivers coach, tight end's coach, and then

764
00:38:19,098 --> 00:38:22,378
Speaker 3: he went to Detroit coached tight ends there for a

765
00:38:22,418 --> 00:38:25,538
Speaker 3: couple of years, which is the position to coach, by

766
00:38:25,578 --> 00:38:27,817
Speaker 3: the way, in terms of because you're dealing with run

767
00:38:27,858 --> 00:38:29,698
Speaker 3: and pass games. So if you're gonna be on the

768
00:38:29,698 --> 00:38:34,018
Speaker 3: coordinator track, a lot of those coordinators McVeigh. Those guys,

769
00:38:34,058 --> 00:38:36,658
Speaker 3: they start as tight ends coaches and then they work

770
00:38:36,698 --> 00:38:40,578
Speaker 3: their way up to coordinator. We know, in my opinion,

771
00:38:41,178 --> 00:38:44,738
Speaker 3: I kind of am worried that Mike Rabel is gonna

772
00:38:44,738 --> 00:38:47,498
Speaker 3: have a ceiling. I think Mike Rabel's gonna get you

773
00:38:47,538 --> 00:38:49,897
Speaker 3: to a really nice floor. Yeah, and you're gonna get

774
00:38:49,938 --> 00:38:53,378
Speaker 3: You're gonna hire him. He's gonna bring respectability, he's gonna

775
00:38:53,378 --> 00:38:56,698
Speaker 3: bring professionalism, he's gonna bring accountability. He's gonna be a

776
00:38:56,778 --> 00:38:59,538
Speaker 3: very very good CEO coach and a culture builder and

777
00:38:59,618 --> 00:39:03,258
Speaker 3: all the program stuff and all that's all well and good,

778
00:39:04,058 --> 00:39:06,218
Speaker 3: but I believe that that's going to have a ceiling

779
00:39:06,738 --> 00:39:07,338
Speaker 3: long term.

780
00:39:07,378 --> 00:39:09,857
Speaker 2: Well, but isn't that what Drake mays for to then

781
00:39:09,898 --> 00:39:12,218
Speaker 2: get you to that next level? Isn't that the ing

782
00:39:12,258 --> 00:39:15,898
Speaker 2: the superstar quarterback if they let him. I think Rabel

783
00:39:15,978 --> 00:39:17,898
Speaker 2: understands the modern game enough to do that.

784
00:39:17,978 --> 00:39:21,938
Speaker 3: So I am concerned that the Mike, that's a nine

785
00:39:22,018 --> 00:39:23,978
Speaker 3: or ten win ceiling, which is not to.

786
00:39:23,938 --> 00:39:26,698
Speaker 2: Say if you're gonna say as a Niner ceiling, no, no,

787
00:39:26,858 --> 00:39:29,618
Speaker 2: you want it nine or ten win season. And I

788
00:39:29,858 --> 00:39:32,458
Speaker 2: hired that. I won twelve games in Tennessee. Yeah, it

789
00:39:32,498 --> 00:39:34,418
Speaker 2: was such a that was like there was all sorts

790
00:39:34,458 --> 00:39:37,777
Speaker 2: of sun. No, no, he won twelve. The AFC was

791
00:39:37,858 --> 00:39:40,458
Speaker 2: weak that year and he all he won it. And

792
00:39:40,858 --> 00:39:43,858
Speaker 2: Brady's last year with the Patriots, he flamed. He won

793
00:39:43,898 --> 00:39:44,898
Speaker 2: twelve games in Tennessee.

794
00:39:44,938 --> 00:39:46,978
Speaker 3: Okay, he won twelve games one year in his six

795
00:39:47,018 --> 00:39:49,738
Speaker 3: seasons in Tennessee. Was throw him a parade, like do

796
00:39:49,818 --> 00:39:52,498
Speaker 3: you you have to there's there a ceiling to it. Yes,

797
00:39:52,818 --> 00:39:54,578
Speaker 3: there's a ceiling to it. That's where you showed that

798
00:39:54,698 --> 00:39:57,817
Speaker 3: in Tennessee. Okay, But if you got higher. You are

799
00:39:58,098 --> 00:40:00,738
Speaker 3: not taking any risks with Rabel. You know what you're getting.

800
00:40:00,938 --> 00:40:04,458
Speaker 3: It's a floor higher, and in my opinion, I think

801
00:40:04,458 --> 00:40:06,898
Speaker 3: you're going to be a really solid football program. I

802
00:40:06,938 --> 00:40:09,258
Speaker 3: don't know what your ceiling is with Mike Rabel, With

803
00:40:09,378 --> 00:40:11,938
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson, you run the risk of it flaming out.

804
00:40:11,978 --> 00:40:14,098
Speaker 3: You run the risk of it being a disaster. I

805
00:40:14,138 --> 00:40:20,418
Speaker 3: acknowledge that. But the upside is Shanahan, McVeigh, O'Connell. It's

806
00:40:20,578 --> 00:40:22,498
Speaker 3: super Bowl team. That's the upside.

807
00:40:23,698 --> 00:40:26,258
Speaker 2: I don't see why the upside keep with the personnel.

808
00:40:26,338 --> 00:40:29,018
Speaker 2: So I think coaching sets the floor. Talent sets the ceiling. Right,

809
00:40:29,378 --> 00:40:31,058
Speaker 2: So this is where we get in to the elliot

810
00:40:31,098 --> 00:40:33,298
Speaker 2: wolf of it all. And I said earlier like I

811
00:40:33,298 --> 00:40:35,498
Speaker 2: want to know who has final say And that's the

812
00:40:35,538 --> 00:40:37,698
Speaker 2: other part of this. Who's either one bringing as their

813
00:40:37,738 --> 00:40:39,818
Speaker 2: GM or whatever it is. It's not gonna be a

814
00:40:39,818 --> 00:40:41,898
Speaker 2: GM because they just don't have gms here, But like,

815
00:40:42,258 --> 00:40:43,978
Speaker 2: who has that? We did this last year. I don't

816
00:40:43,978 --> 00:40:46,498
Speaker 2: care what the title is. Six people in the room.

817
00:40:46,978 --> 00:40:50,018
Speaker 2: Three want Abdul Carter, three want Will Campbell. Who gets

818
00:40:50,058 --> 00:40:51,818
Speaker 2: to put their fist on the table and say my

819
00:40:51,938 --> 00:40:54,938
Speaker 2: vote counts is too we're getting my guy right. That's

820
00:40:55,218 --> 00:40:58,698
Speaker 2: that's the other unknown here. So I have a thought

821
00:40:58,738 --> 00:41:01,458
Speaker 2: on that, but sorry, and it's it's gonna be different

822
00:41:01,458 --> 00:41:03,698
Speaker 2: with Rabel or Johnson. If, like Rabel says in the meeting,

823
00:41:03,738 --> 00:41:06,138
Speaker 2: I want John Robbinson, I say the guy that traded

824
00:41:06,178 --> 00:41:09,178
Speaker 2: aj Brown, and then I call Ben Johnson, right, So

825
00:41:09,778 --> 00:41:13,178
Speaker 2: like there's that element to it. But I think talent

826
00:41:13,258 --> 00:41:16,578
Speaker 2: sets the ceiling, and they just need to get the

827
00:41:16,618 --> 00:41:19,817
Speaker 2: things you said respectable, professional, accountable. They need to get

828
00:41:19,858 --> 00:41:22,258
Speaker 2: back to that they cannot afford to not get back.

829
00:41:22,338 --> 00:41:24,578
Speaker 2: They also need to score points, which they haven't done

830
00:41:24,618 --> 00:41:28,058
Speaker 2: in four years. So Drake may can't help them score

831
00:41:28,058 --> 00:41:29,578
Speaker 2: for the course, but it shouldn't be all on the

832
00:41:29,578 --> 00:41:32,458
Speaker 2: second year quarterback to help them score points. No, that's

833
00:41:32,738 --> 00:41:34,817
Speaker 2: that's where the personnel guy comes. You're not gonna gotta

834
00:41:34,818 --> 00:41:35,698
Speaker 2: get that guy help.

835
00:41:36,178 --> 00:41:38,578
Speaker 3: So now it's all on the talent. Like if yes,

836
00:41:38,618 --> 00:41:40,777
Speaker 3: they're not going I said this, they're not gonna win

837
00:41:40,858 --> 00:41:43,258
Speaker 3: like that. You're not gonna win with twenty points a game.

838
00:41:43,298 --> 00:41:46,418
Speaker 2: I said this before they I've been saying this since Ocatobe.

839
00:41:46,418 --> 00:41:47,817
Speaker 2: I think I've been saying it since start of the year.

840
00:41:48,538 --> 00:41:52,538
Speaker 2: Were there coaching issues this year? Yes, absolutely, moving on

841
00:41:52,578 --> 00:41:54,777
Speaker 2: for May it was necessary. But if we were to

842
00:41:54,858 --> 00:41:58,418
Speaker 2: list the biggest issues facing the twenty twenty three Patriots,

843
00:41:58,858 --> 00:42:01,297
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four Patriots, and twenty twenty three twenty twenty

844
00:42:01,298 --> 00:42:05,138
Speaker 2: four Patriots, at the top of that list was roster talent.

845
00:42:07,098 --> 00:42:12,817
Speaker 2: So that has to improve. And I I think Ben

846
00:42:12,898 --> 00:42:15,698
Speaker 2: Johnson comes in and just spins his wheels like and

847
00:42:15,858 --> 00:42:17,898
Speaker 2: just just focus on the offense and the scheme. And

848
00:42:18,058 --> 00:42:21,218
Speaker 2: so many of these guys think the schemes above the talent, right.

849
00:42:21,338 --> 00:42:28,897
Speaker 2: We know essentially that your guy, Kyle Shanahan feels that way.

850
00:42:29,418 --> 00:42:33,338
Speaker 3: So here's a difference between these two candidates. The biggest

851
00:42:33,338 --> 00:42:38,218
Speaker 3: difference between these two candidates with Mike Rabel. If the

852
00:42:38,218 --> 00:42:41,938
Speaker 3: Patriots hire Mike Rabel, I'm giving the keys to Rabel.

853
00:42:42,298 --> 00:42:45,498
Speaker 3: It's Rabel's shows when it comes to final say on

854
00:42:45,538 --> 00:42:49,418
Speaker 3: the roster. I'm not necessarily giving him all the personnel power.

855
00:42:49,658 --> 00:42:52,658
Speaker 3: I still want him working in conjunction with a general manager.

856
00:42:52,658 --> 00:42:56,978
Speaker 2: I would want an experienced front office executive. Who's your

857
00:42:57,018 --> 00:42:59,578
Speaker 2: guy from New York that you like Ryan Cowden. Yeah,

858
00:42:59,618 --> 00:43:02,818
Speaker 2: I'd still like somebody who's been in front office it

859
00:43:02,818 --> 00:43:05,777
Speaker 2: because Rabel's never negotiated a contract, right, So like, I

860
00:43:05,818 --> 00:43:07,938
Speaker 2: still want a guy like that, but I'm I'm okay

861
00:43:07,978 --> 00:43:10,498
Speaker 2: if Mike Rabel's final say, I'm not giving Ben Johnson.

862
00:43:10,698 --> 00:43:12,777
Speaker 3: So this is the difference in the higher right. The

863
00:43:12,818 --> 00:43:16,298
Speaker 3: difference is that Rabel is coming here to run the program.

864
00:43:16,378 --> 00:43:22,018
Speaker 2: Yes, it is his ship. He's he's the all encompassing guy. Right.

865
00:43:22,898 --> 00:43:26,458
Speaker 3: If I'm hiring Ben Johnson, I'm hiring Ben Johnson for

866
00:43:26,578 --> 00:43:30,178
Speaker 3: two main reasons, to run Drake may like it's his

867
00:43:30,218 --> 00:43:32,858
Speaker 3: develo and call offensive plays.

868
00:43:34,138 --> 00:43:36,458
Speaker 2: I'm gonna hire two things that other people can do

869
00:43:36,498 --> 00:43:38,938
Speaker 2: with Mike Rabel's the head coach, not as well. And

870
00:43:39,018 --> 00:43:41,098
Speaker 2: so then you don't know what's to say. He can't

871
00:43:41,098 --> 00:43:42,178
Speaker 2: find Ben Jonson.

872
00:43:42,258 --> 00:43:44,818
Speaker 3: Know that you do know that, you know he's not

873
00:43:44,858 --> 00:43:47,297
Speaker 3: gonna be as good as Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson has

874
00:43:47,338 --> 00:43:51,058
Speaker 3: literally been the top candidate for two straight stycles because

875
00:43:51,058 --> 00:43:56,857
Speaker 3: of this, Okay, or he fights all these Guyshan McVeigh, Lafleur, O'Connell,

876
00:43:57,418 --> 00:44:00,898
Speaker 3: Brady's shortly, Ben Johnson shortly. What do they all have

877
00:44:00,938 --> 00:44:04,418
Speaker 3: in common? They're head coaches. They're going to be head coaches.

878
00:44:04,738 --> 00:44:07,618
Speaker 3: So unless you're gonna tell me that Mike Rabel has

879
00:44:07,658 --> 00:44:10,498
Speaker 3: some secret diamond in the rough.

880
00:44:10,858 --> 00:44:13,178
Speaker 2: Tommy Reese is going to be the new You just

881
00:44:13,298 --> 00:44:15,458
Speaker 2: named a bunch of guys like it seems like the

882
00:44:15,978 --> 00:44:20,898
Speaker 2: NFL coaching machine factory is churning out tight pants, khaki guys.

883
00:44:21,298 --> 00:44:25,058
Speaker 2: Go find your so, go find a random one.

884
00:44:25,138 --> 00:44:27,418
Speaker 3: Well, you just named like ten guys. Okay, Well give

885
00:44:27,418 --> 00:44:30,858
Speaker 3: me a better, give me a dang good name. And

886
00:44:31,018 --> 00:44:33,378
Speaker 3: I don't want it to be Josh McDaniels. I'm sorry.

887
00:44:33,418 --> 00:44:36,018
Speaker 3: I love Josh McDaniels. I love the guy. I think

888
00:44:36,018 --> 00:44:38,058
Speaker 3: he's a good coach. I don't want it to be him.

889
00:44:38,618 --> 00:44:40,618
Speaker 3: It needs to be somebody that's going to bring this

890
00:44:40,658 --> 00:44:43,138
Speaker 3: offense to the modern era. It's got to be somebody

891
00:44:43,138 --> 00:44:46,018
Speaker 3: that's gonna run something that's innovative. It's got to be

892
00:44:46,058 --> 00:44:49,098
Speaker 3: something that's gonna run somebody, something that's gonna put defenses

893
00:44:49,098 --> 00:44:50,938
Speaker 3: in cone that are gonna leverage Drake.

894
00:44:50,978 --> 00:44:53,258
Speaker 2: So I don't want to overload Drake May with the

895
00:44:53,298 --> 00:44:55,458
Speaker 2: Josh McDaniels offense, But you want to drop him into

896
00:44:55,458 --> 00:44:58,058
Speaker 2: one of these complex schemes. How is it complex? He's

897
00:44:58,218 --> 00:45:01,458
Speaker 2: running RPOs. You're talking about the innovative.

898
00:45:00,858 --> 00:45:04,338
Speaker 3: And that's not complex that none of these kids have

899
00:45:04,578 --> 00:45:07,458
Speaker 3: been doing that since high school. Nowadays, you have high

900
00:45:07,458 --> 00:45:09,938
Speaker 3: school offenses that are running these types of things, like

901
00:45:10,018 --> 00:45:12,618
Speaker 3: he was running this at Myers Park, like you know,

902
00:45:12,658 --> 00:45:14,978
Speaker 3: with the coaches down there at North Carolina. He's running

903
00:45:14,978 --> 00:45:19,018
Speaker 3: this at UNC with their air raids. You know, I

904
00:45:19,098 --> 00:45:20,458
Speaker 3: know they hate when I call it an air raid,

905
00:45:20,538 --> 00:45:21,258
Speaker 3: but it's an air raid.

906
00:45:21,298 --> 00:45:21,698
Speaker 2: Okay.

907
00:45:21,898 --> 00:45:24,058
Speaker 3: You know they've been running it down at North Carolina.

908
00:45:24,098 --> 00:45:27,178
Speaker 3: This is what they run nowadays. They don't run an

909
00:45:27,178 --> 00:45:29,938
Speaker 3: old school Earnhard Perkins offense like the Patriots used to

910
00:45:30,018 --> 00:45:32,938
Speaker 3: run twenty years ago. These are the offenses that these

911
00:45:32,978 --> 00:45:35,538
Speaker 3: young quarterbacks are growing up running, you know, so like

912
00:45:35,618 --> 00:45:38,258
Speaker 3: it's not complex to them to read out an RPO

913
00:45:38,458 --> 00:45:40,618
Speaker 3: or a read option play or to send a guy

914
00:45:40,658 --> 00:45:43,378
Speaker 3: in motion, Like these things aren't complex to these kids anymore.

915
00:45:43,378 --> 00:45:45,818
Speaker 2: This is what they've been doing their whole football lives.

916
00:45:46,138 --> 00:45:48,458
Speaker 3: What is complex to them is we're gonna put you

917
00:45:48,538 --> 00:45:51,578
Speaker 3: under center, We're gonna drop you back seven step drop

918
00:45:51,818 --> 00:45:55,297
Speaker 3: play action, fake turn, back around, make a throw. I

919
00:45:55,338 --> 00:45:57,538
Speaker 3: know that sounds rudimentary to a lot of people that

920
00:45:57,618 --> 00:46:01,018
Speaker 3: have been watching and you know, covering football, and you know,

921
00:46:01,258 --> 00:46:04,418
Speaker 3: observing football for fifty years, to these kids, it's not

922
00:46:04,938 --> 00:46:07,458
Speaker 3: they don't do it. They don't go under center, they

923
00:46:07,458 --> 00:46:11,018
Speaker 3: don't shotgun, they don't play action pass from under center.

924
00:46:11,338 --> 00:46:13,498
Speaker 3: They don't run seven and nine steps.

925
00:46:13,898 --> 00:46:16,738
Speaker 2: So if this is what everybody's running, how hard is

926
00:46:16,778 --> 00:46:19,058
Speaker 2: it to find somebody who runs it as a coach?

927
00:46:20,298 --> 00:46:23,738
Speaker 3: Harder than you think, because you have to It has

928
00:46:23,818 --> 00:46:26,618
Speaker 3: to be the right guy, and the right guy meaning

929
00:46:26,698 --> 00:46:29,297
Speaker 3: what he has to be a good coach, It has

930
00:46:29,298 --> 00:46:31,418
Speaker 3: to be the right guy is not going to be rable,

931
00:46:31,498 --> 00:46:34,058
Speaker 3: So they have to find the right guy to put

932
00:46:34,098 --> 00:46:37,377
Speaker 3: in that position. And with Ben Johnson, what I would

933
00:46:37,418 --> 00:46:40,618
Speaker 3: do is that at that point you definitely need to

934
00:46:40,698 --> 00:46:45,218
Speaker 3: hire a true general manager because he you want the

935
00:46:45,298 --> 00:46:49,098
Speaker 3: general manager to do all of the program building. I'm

936
00:46:49,098 --> 00:46:50,418
Speaker 3: putting it on the general manager.

937
00:46:50,418 --> 00:46:52,338
Speaker 2: I still think you need somebody on the coaching staff

938
00:46:52,338 --> 00:46:55,098
Speaker 2: who can do that too. So you gave me Sean McVay,

939
00:46:55,298 --> 00:46:58,218
Speaker 2: who had Wade Phillips. He has talked about being able

940
00:46:58,218 --> 00:47:00,818
Speaker 2: to help. So you're gonna ask me who Mike Rabel's

941
00:47:00,858 --> 00:47:06,178
Speaker 2: coordinator is. Who is Ben Johnson's Wade Phillips. I'm gonna

942
00:47:06,218 --> 00:47:08,378
Speaker 2: give you two names I don't want to hear. One

943
00:47:08,458 --> 00:47:10,698
Speaker 2: is Luayna Roma. Why not because he's never been a

944
00:47:10,738 --> 00:47:13,337
Speaker 2: head coach. He's never run Okay, that's the whole point

945
00:47:13,338 --> 00:47:16,938
Speaker 2: of having this guy. He was literally very close to

946
00:47:16,978 --> 00:47:19,498
Speaker 2: being a head coach. He's very close, very nice, he's

947
00:47:20,578 --> 00:47:24,138
Speaker 2: a big Wade Phillips Phillips, very close to being a

948
00:47:24,138 --> 00:47:25,938
Speaker 2: head coach or he's been a head coach for like

949
00:47:25,978 --> 00:47:27,898
Speaker 2: a decade. The other name I don't want to hear

950
00:47:27,938 --> 00:47:32,218
Speaker 2: is Robert Sala because, just like we're talking about but

951
00:47:32,298 --> 00:47:34,098
Speaker 2: just to talk to the viewers, just like we're talking

952
00:47:34,138 --> 00:47:36,658
Speaker 2: about building this thing around Drake May on offense, I

953
00:47:36,698 --> 00:47:38,377
Speaker 2: also think you kind of need to do the same

954
00:47:38,378 --> 00:47:40,978
Speaker 2: thing on defense with Christian Gonzalez. I have zero interest

955
00:47:40,978 --> 00:47:43,578
Speaker 2: in turning Christian Gonzalez into Sauce Gardner. That's an insult

956
00:47:43,618 --> 00:47:46,258
Speaker 2: to Christian Gonzales. I want them running man coverages. I

957
00:47:46,258 --> 00:47:48,778
Speaker 2: don't want them doing Seattle three. I want them running

958
00:47:48,778 --> 00:47:52,058
Speaker 2: a big boy defense. And like, is that unfair to say,

959
00:47:52,098 --> 00:47:54,578
Speaker 2: like they should be treating all the conversations around right

960
00:47:54,578 --> 00:47:57,418
Speaker 2: now around Drake May, build it around him, develop him.

961
00:47:57,738 --> 00:48:00,857
Speaker 2: Shouldn't we also be saying the same about Gonzales on defense. Yeah,

962
00:48:01,578 --> 00:48:03,298
Speaker 2: so that's why I'm out on solid all right, So

963
00:48:03,418 --> 00:48:04,218
Speaker 2: no saw I.

964
00:48:04,418 --> 00:48:06,378
Speaker 3: Was Also, he's even getting a head coaching job in

965
00:48:06,418 --> 00:48:09,418
Speaker 3: second or he's going to San Francisco so be their

966
00:48:09,498 --> 00:48:10,338
Speaker 3: defensive coordinator.

967
00:48:10,378 --> 00:48:13,258
Speaker 2: There's no Sela is not coming here. So I want

968
00:48:13,258 --> 00:48:15,698
Speaker 2: a guy who has been a head coach before, who

969
00:48:15,738 --> 00:48:18,258
Speaker 2: has been around this league for a long time. Who

970
00:48:18,338 --> 00:48:20,538
Speaker 2: is because this is what we don't know. Can Ben

971
00:48:20,578 --> 00:48:22,938
Speaker 2: Johnson set up his own program. He's doing none of

972
00:48:23,018 --> 00:48:25,978
Speaker 2: that in Detroit that is filled in spades. It is

973
00:48:25,978 --> 00:48:28,178
Speaker 2: filled in then some by Dan Campbell.

974
00:48:28,178 --> 00:48:30,818
Speaker 3: And Dan Campbell's not calling plays or designing the offense.

975
00:48:30,898 --> 00:48:34,098
Speaker 3: I'm not the number one seed in the NFC.

976
00:48:35,178 --> 00:48:37,698
Speaker 2: That's not entirely his seventh ranked defense in the league,

977
00:48:37,698 --> 00:48:39,498
Speaker 2: and boy, those guys are bought in and.

978
00:48:39,618 --> 00:48:41,658
Speaker 3: The seventh drank defense in the league. Their defense is

979
00:48:41,658 --> 00:48:44,098
Speaker 3: completely falling apart since all the injuries came apart.

980
00:48:45,378 --> 00:48:46,738
Speaker 2: And so there's scoring.

981
00:48:46,818 --> 00:48:49,058
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they're scoring forty points a game to keep

982
00:48:49,098 --> 00:48:49,938
Speaker 3: winning football games.

983
00:48:49,938 --> 00:48:52,258
Speaker 2: And there's guys bought in and it's been sustainable and

984
00:48:52,298 --> 00:48:53,337
Speaker 2: they didn't just do this for.

985
00:48:53,338 --> 00:48:53,658
Speaker 4: What, So.

986
00:48:55,218 --> 00:48:56,218
Speaker 2: Zero credit for that.

987
00:48:56,498 --> 00:48:59,298
Speaker 3: He gets zero credit for the fact that that offense

988
00:48:59,498 --> 00:49:04,298
Speaker 3: is dynamite and they clearly have taken a team Ryan

989
00:49:04,378 --> 00:49:08,337
Speaker 3: Tannehill quarterback ask Jared Goff and has turned him into

990
00:49:08,338 --> 00:49:11,098
Speaker 3: an MVP candidate. And he gets zero credit for that

991
00:49:11,138 --> 00:49:12,858
Speaker 3: because I am not giving any of that credit to

992
00:49:12,938 --> 00:49:15,738
Speaker 3: Dan Campbell. Because Dan Campbell's doing Jack Squad, He's talking

993
00:49:15,778 --> 00:49:18,618
Speaker 3: about knee caps and you know, crying after games. That's

994
00:49:18,618 --> 00:49:21,738
Speaker 3: what Dan Campbell's doing. Ben Johnson is the one that's

995
00:49:21,778 --> 00:49:24,578
Speaker 3: does designing the offense. He's the one that's calling the plays.

996
00:49:24,698 --> 00:49:27,658
Speaker 3: He's the one that's doing things that people have never

997
00:49:27,698 --> 00:49:31,058
Speaker 3: seen before executed at this level as high of a

998
00:49:31,178 --> 00:49:33,058
Speaker 3: level as that what they are doing, like they're running

999
00:49:33,098 --> 00:49:35,818
Speaker 3: hooking ladders for crying out out for forty yard touchdowns,

1000
00:49:35,938 --> 00:49:38,018
Speaker 3: like you don't see that every single day. So he's

1001
00:49:38,058 --> 00:49:40,018
Speaker 3: the one that's doing all these types of things. So,

1002
00:49:40,098 --> 00:49:43,178
Speaker 3: but you're not giving him any credit for the confidence

1003
00:49:43,338 --> 00:49:45,858
Speaker 3: and the energy that that offense plays with none.

1004
00:49:47,178 --> 00:49:49,858
Speaker 2: Not Like the confidence energy the offense is different than

1005
00:49:49,858 --> 00:49:52,258
Speaker 2: building a program. So I flip it back to you,

1006
00:49:52,338 --> 00:49:54,858
Speaker 2: Mike Rabel when he was in Tennessee before they screwed

1007
00:49:54,898 --> 00:49:55,937
Speaker 2: up and traded AJ Brown.

1008
00:49:55,978 --> 00:50:00,778
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so aj Brown did completely tanked the entire ten. Yeah,

1009
00:50:01,018 --> 00:50:04,378
Speaker 3: oh my god, tenth tank That program is Ryan Tannehill age.

1010
00:50:04,498 --> 00:50:06,298
Speaker 2: They had a top five offense in the league. So

1011
00:50:06,378 --> 00:50:08,098
Speaker 2: rabel isn't get credit for a top five offense in

1012
00:50:08,098 --> 00:50:10,458
Speaker 2: the league, then I'm fine if he doesn't, But then

1013
00:50:10,498 --> 00:50:13,018
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson doesn't get it's an unknown. It's an unknown

1014
00:50:13,058 --> 00:50:16,018
Speaker 2: with Ben Johnson. The culture element, the program building element

1015
00:50:16,338 --> 00:50:19,377
Speaker 2: is an unknown. He's never had to hire coaches. He's

1016
00:50:19,418 --> 00:50:22,098
Speaker 2: never had to like schedule out a full game week.

1017
00:50:22,418 --> 00:50:25,378
Speaker 2: He's never had to truly like, yes he does the

1018
00:50:25,378 --> 00:50:27,658
Speaker 2: offensive game game, but you've never done that big picture.

1019
00:50:27,738 --> 00:50:30,058
Speaker 2: You're saying this like he's drowed Mayo and he's not

1020
00:50:30,138 --> 00:50:33,258
Speaker 2: draft Mayo. He's been assistant coach for fourteen years, he's

1021
00:50:33,258 --> 00:50:36,777
Speaker 2: been a coordinator for three years. Different because I've been

1022
00:50:36,898 --> 00:50:39,538
Speaker 2: But you're saying this like he had and I Rob

1023
00:50:39,698 --> 00:50:41,817
Speaker 2: McDaniels was a coach for a long time.

1024
00:50:42,018 --> 00:50:45,498
Speaker 3: Yes, Josh mcdaniels's issue as a head coach wasn't what

1025
00:50:45,538 --> 00:50:49,138
Speaker 3: you're talking about. Josh mcdaniels's issue with this absolutely was

1026
00:50:49,178 --> 00:50:52,218
Speaker 3: his personality. His issue as a head coach was not

1027
00:50:53,258 --> 00:50:56,058
Speaker 3: what you're getting at which is the things like you know,

1028
00:50:57,178 --> 00:50:58,778
Speaker 3: programmed saying.

1029
00:50:58,658 --> 00:51:01,058
Speaker 2: How do you operate within the building day to day

1030
00:51:01,098 --> 00:51:04,578
Speaker 2: on a person on a personal person basis, Right, that's

1031
00:51:04,618 --> 00:51:08,178
Speaker 2: the That was mcdaniels's problem. That was also from by reports,

1032
00:51:08,178 --> 00:51:09,898
Speaker 2: And I don't know if this is true, but by

1033
00:51:09,978 --> 00:51:12,378
Speaker 2: reports that was Brian flora is his problem in Miami.

1034
00:51:12,418 --> 00:51:15,258
Speaker 2: Took just one player, but it.

1035
00:51:15,258 --> 00:51:19,018
Speaker 3: Was personality, right he I think Ryan Fitzpatrick used the

1036
00:51:19,018 --> 00:51:21,978
Speaker 3: word that Brian Flores became a dictator that in Miami.

1037
00:51:22,018 --> 00:51:25,698
Speaker 2: I'm not so no, that's the okay, we have no

1038
00:51:25,858 --> 00:51:27,978
Speaker 2: clue and Flora's has been a coach for a long

1039
00:51:28,018 --> 00:51:30,858
Speaker 2: time and there was no indication that players here loved him,

1040
00:51:31,178 --> 00:51:35,138
Speaker 2: loved him. There's no We have no idea what Ben

1041
00:51:35,218 --> 00:51:37,418
Speaker 2: Johnson could step in and be a dictator. Ben Johnson

1042
00:51:37,418 --> 00:51:39,337
Speaker 2: could step in and have no control of the rope.

1043
00:51:39,418 --> 00:51:41,297
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson could step in and be the greatest leader

1044
00:51:41,338 --> 00:51:43,817
Speaker 2: of all time. We don't know. There's no way to know.

1045
00:51:44,138 --> 00:51:46,818
Speaker 2: And after a year of complete uncertainty in terms of

1046
00:51:46,818 --> 00:51:49,418
Speaker 2: the direction of the program, to hand it over to

1047
00:51:49,458 --> 00:51:52,418
Speaker 2: a guy who is an unknown in that regard to me,

1048
00:51:52,618 --> 00:51:57,178
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not a risk Worth. It's it's

1049
00:51:57,178 --> 00:52:01,777
Speaker 2: not entirely never called the defense. It's not it's not

1050
00:52:01,898 --> 00:52:04,578
Speaker 2: red delicious to Red Delicious, but maybe it's red delicious

1051
00:52:04,618 --> 00:52:06,938
Speaker 2: to Granny. We're still the apple. No, it's not.

1052
00:52:07,058 --> 00:52:09,018
Speaker 3: You're not still in the apple family. You're you're in

1053
00:52:09,058 --> 00:52:12,498
Speaker 3: a different fruit like I don't think so. His experience

1054
00:52:12,618 --> 00:52:15,898
Speaker 3: pales in comparison to Mayo's. Not only was he an

1055
00:52:15,898 --> 00:52:17,938
Speaker 3: assistant coach, he did it the right way. He was

1056
00:52:17,938 --> 00:52:20,938
Speaker 3: an assistant coach for ten years. Then he became a coordinator.

1057
00:52:21,098 --> 00:52:23,858
Speaker 3: Then he called his own offense, Then he designed his

1058
00:52:23,898 --> 00:52:26,618
Speaker 3: own offense, then he game planned his own offense. He

1059
00:52:26,658 --> 00:52:28,898
Speaker 3: did all of those different things. And I'm with you.

1060
00:52:28,938 --> 00:52:32,738
Speaker 3: If they hire Ben Johnson, they have to hire a

1061
00:52:32,818 --> 00:52:36,458
Speaker 3: defensive coordinator who is experienced, who has run the side

1062
00:52:36,458 --> 00:52:39,258
Speaker 3: of the football, Patrick Grant.

1063
00:52:39,458 --> 00:52:41,418
Speaker 2: But he's not just a guy that's but it's not

1064
00:52:41,458 --> 00:52:43,818
Speaker 2: just a guy that's running defense. You who is he

1065
00:52:44,018 --> 00:52:48,138
Speaker 2: going to? Why can't you this morning? Why can't he

1066
00:52:48,218 --> 00:52:51,738
Speaker 2: hire an associate head coach? Why who? Okay, who probably

1067
00:52:51,858 --> 00:52:56,378
Speaker 2: Joe Philben great Joe fill We're put in the organization's

1068
00:52:56,378 --> 00:52:57,338
Speaker 2: faith in Joe Philbin.

1069
00:52:57,818 --> 00:53:00,618
Speaker 3: No, you're putting the organization's fate in Ben Johnson, like

1070
00:53:00,938 --> 00:53:03,738
Speaker 3: you're talking about a guy that's saying how much how

1071
00:53:03,818 --> 00:53:06,338
Speaker 3: much a sounding board as someone that can you know,

1072
00:53:06,418 --> 00:53:07,698
Speaker 3: give him ideas or in.

1073
00:53:07,658 --> 00:53:11,098
Speaker 2: How much of an from Ben mcadu's Joe Filden, because

1074
00:53:11,098 --> 00:53:13,458
Speaker 2: that's what Ben mackett they The guy we're describing is

1075
00:53:13,458 --> 00:53:15,857
Speaker 2: what Ben McNew I think was supposed to be this year.

1076
00:53:17,298 --> 00:53:18,337
Speaker 2: Knew that wasn't enough.

1077
00:53:18,338 --> 00:53:22,378
Speaker 3: But Ben mcado also specifically specialized on doing it on offense,

1078
00:53:22,418 --> 00:53:25,298
Speaker 3: like he was a senior offensive assistant. I am talking

1079
00:53:25,338 --> 00:53:28,897
Speaker 3: about hiring someone you know has done it before. That's

1080
00:53:28,898 --> 00:53:29,857
Speaker 3: a true you know.

1081
00:53:31,338 --> 00:53:33,857
Speaker 2: So why not hire that guy to be the head

1082
00:53:33,898 --> 00:53:37,738
Speaker 2: coach and then the have that guy find the guy

1083
00:53:37,778 --> 00:53:40,258
Speaker 2: who can call plays and design plays. Because if you

1084
00:53:40,298 --> 00:53:44,898
Speaker 2: get the head coach higher wrong, you you're really in it. Now.

1085
00:53:45,218 --> 00:53:47,817
Speaker 2: If you get the offense because you're higher wrong, that's

1086
00:53:47,818 --> 00:53:50,818
Speaker 2: not great, but it's easier to change the great.

1087
00:53:51,098 --> 00:53:53,698
Speaker 3: You're really under selling that. It's not great. He's gonna

1088
00:53:53,698 --> 00:53:54,898
Speaker 3: completely mess up drake man.

1089
00:53:54,938 --> 00:53:57,258
Speaker 2: Okay. As opposed to getting the head coaching higher wrong,

1090
00:53:57,418 --> 00:53:59,378
Speaker 2: how is that getting the head coaching higher If the

1091
00:53:59,418 --> 00:54:02,618
Speaker 2: guy can't establish it, I'll give you Mike McDaniel. Players

1092
00:54:02,618 --> 00:54:05,058
Speaker 2: are asking out of Miami left and right, and they

1093
00:54:05,098 --> 00:54:07,338
Speaker 2: they do win some games. He's what three and fifteen

1094
00:54:07,458 --> 00:54:10,218
Speaker 2: against teams over five hundred. They haven't won a serious

1095
00:54:10,258 --> 00:54:12,538
Speaker 2: big boy game as long as he's been there. That's

1096
00:54:12,538 --> 00:54:14,938
Speaker 2: different to me. How is that this is the same

1097
00:54:15,018 --> 00:54:19,098
Speaker 2: guy because they Mike McDaid with Ben Johnson three years ago.

1098
00:54:19,458 --> 00:54:23,578
Speaker 3: It's because I don't think Miami's built their team correctly.

1099
00:54:23,778 --> 00:54:26,218
Speaker 3: Miami has built their team from the outside in. I

1100
00:54:26,298 --> 00:54:27,978
Speaker 3: want to build the team from the inside out.

1101
00:54:28,738 --> 00:54:30,378
Speaker 2: To be okay with that. Yet, what do you kind

1102
00:54:30,378 --> 00:54:32,338
Speaker 2: of line do you thinking of? Because Detroit the offensive

1103
00:54:32,378 --> 00:54:34,258
Speaker 2: what do you mean he didn't build that. Chris Bielman

1104
00:54:34,258 --> 00:54:37,058
Speaker 2: built that. They want the receivers and they want the

1105
00:54:37,178 --> 00:54:39,978
Speaker 2: toy They're ridiculous. Why do you think that he knows

1106
00:54:40,018 --> 00:54:42,938
Speaker 2: why they're successful? So I'm sorry not having a line

1107
00:54:43,178 --> 00:54:45,538
Speaker 2: and their line is not that bad, and their defensive

1108
00:54:45,538 --> 00:54:48,058
Speaker 2: line is great. Not having a line is Miami?

1109
00:54:48,178 --> 00:54:48,218
Speaker 5: No?

1110
00:54:48,418 --> 00:54:48,738
Speaker 6: Come on?

1111
00:54:48,818 --> 00:54:51,178
Speaker 2: Their defensive line is not dead gas rush man. They

1112
00:54:51,178 --> 00:54:52,538
Speaker 2: can get after the quarterback.

1113
00:54:52,218 --> 00:54:54,018
Speaker 3: But every single time they get into a tough game

1114
00:54:54,058 --> 00:54:57,337
Speaker 3: against your playoff caliber opponents, they get run on every

1115
00:54:57,338 --> 00:55:00,578
Speaker 3: single time. They can't play in cold weather, they can't block,

1116
00:55:00,778 --> 00:55:01,938
Speaker 3: they get the quarterback hurt.

1117
00:55:01,938 --> 00:55:05,618
Speaker 2: All that being able to That's why they're gonnat this take.

1118
00:55:05,658 --> 00:55:07,658
Speaker 2: But I know I'm right. Not being able to play

1119
00:55:07,658 --> 00:55:09,857
Speaker 2: in cold weather is in part a reflection on the coach.

1120
00:55:10,178 --> 00:55:13,338
Speaker 2: Him doing that ridiculous stuff about wearing the turning the

1121
00:55:14,098 --> 00:55:16,178
Speaker 2: temperature down in the bubble and wearing the long sleeve

1122
00:55:16,218 --> 00:55:18,058
Speaker 2: shirt and say he's got throw ice cubes at people.

1123
00:55:18,258 --> 00:55:21,098
Speaker 2: That's reflection the coach. That's a soft team. They can't go,

1124
00:55:21,698 --> 00:55:23,418
Speaker 2: that's a soft team. That's a soft team. That is

1125
00:55:23,418 --> 00:55:24,578
Speaker 2: a reflect the coach.

1126
00:55:24,658 --> 00:55:28,018
Speaker 3: And if Ben Johnson has learned from Dan Campbell, who

1127
00:55:28,058 --> 00:55:30,418
Speaker 3: he's currently under, so I have to assume that is

1128
00:55:30,498 --> 00:55:32,698
Speaker 3: who he is learning from. You are telling me that

1129
00:55:32,778 --> 00:55:36,058
Speaker 3: the Detroit Lions are a soft football. They're gonna mimic

1130
00:55:36,138 --> 00:55:38,418
Speaker 3: that he's gonna be Mike McDaniel.

1131
00:55:38,658 --> 00:55:40,778
Speaker 2: That's what I'm asking in the interview. How much of

1132
00:55:40,858 --> 00:55:43,777
Speaker 2: Dan Campbell's leadership style do you plan to emulate? But

1133
00:55:43,858 --> 00:55:45,857
Speaker 2: it's not even just that can he pull it off?

1134
00:55:45,978 --> 00:55:48,458
Speaker 2: There were a lot of guys here that went elsewhere

1135
00:55:48,978 --> 00:55:52,258
Speaker 2: and tried to emulate Bill Belichick, but they weren't, Bill Belichick.

1136
00:55:52,338 --> 00:55:54,857
Speaker 2: You can't fake the The one thing he's not gonna

1137
00:55:54,858 --> 00:55:58,858
Speaker 2: do is faking peronality. He's not gonna fake Dan Campbell's

1138
00:55:58,858 --> 00:56:00,818
Speaker 2: person Okay, but that's part of where that buy in.

1139
00:56:00,898 --> 00:56:03,458
Speaker 2: That's part of where that toughness comes from. No, the toughness. Also,

1140
00:56:03,538 --> 00:56:06,058
Speaker 2: you can't just having Penny Sewell. You can't just ask

1141
00:56:06,138 --> 00:56:09,858
Speaker 2: him to come here and bring all the best parts

1142
00:56:09,858 --> 00:56:12,178
Speaker 2: of Dan Campbell with him and leave all the parts

1143
00:56:12,218 --> 00:56:14,058
Speaker 2: you don't like behind. I don't like any of the

1144
00:56:14,098 --> 00:56:16,978
Speaker 2: parts of Dan Campbell. That's the problem. Like I don't care,

1145
00:56:17,098 --> 00:56:20,098
Speaker 2: I don't need but if that's his but please don't

1146
00:56:20,098 --> 00:56:22,338
Speaker 2: bring Dan camp But you acknowledge it to beginning, the

1147
00:56:22,378 --> 00:56:24,738
Speaker 2: program building and the leadership is an important part of it.

1148
00:56:24,938 --> 00:56:27,338
Speaker 2: So you're hiring this guy to come build a program,

1149
00:56:27,498 --> 00:56:29,978
Speaker 2: and your argument is he's seen this great program build

1150
00:56:30,058 --> 00:56:31,938
Speaker 2: under Dan Campbell. If you don't want him to be

1151
00:56:31,978 --> 00:56:34,378
Speaker 2: anything like Dan Campbell, then what's the point.

1152
00:56:34,218 --> 00:56:38,418
Speaker 3: Because I don't nonnowance between actually executing the plan and

1153
00:56:38,538 --> 00:56:40,858
Speaker 3: checking the boxes of what we're talking about from the

1154
00:56:40,898 --> 00:56:43,578
Speaker 3: program side of it and personality. I just don't want

1155
00:56:43,578 --> 00:56:46,018
Speaker 3: his personality to be like Dan Campbell. I don't care

1156
00:56:46,178 --> 00:56:49,098
Speaker 3: if he's he can still do the other stuff without

1157
00:56:49,178 --> 00:56:52,698
Speaker 3: being Dan Campbell like that, that's very doable. You don't

1158
00:56:52,738 --> 00:56:54,738
Speaker 3: have to have his personality.

1159
00:56:54,098 --> 00:56:56,978
Speaker 2: But his personality matters. Again, I go back to to

1160
00:56:56,978 --> 00:57:00,058
Speaker 2: to Mike McDaniel, like I don't.

1161
00:56:59,898 --> 00:57:03,298
Speaker 3: So you you picked Mike McDaniel, who is probably like

1162
00:57:03,458 --> 00:57:06,338
Speaker 3: the worst one out of all this the Shanahan Tree.

1163
00:57:06,178 --> 00:57:08,498
Speaker 2: Group, there's one and there he's stuck around.

1164
00:57:08,298 --> 00:57:12,218
Speaker 3: Okay, but there's there's other ones that are are excelling.

1165
00:57:12,458 --> 00:57:14,098
Speaker 3: But we just have to point to the one guy

1166
00:57:14,098 --> 00:57:18,858
Speaker 3: that isn't Like I just you can look at you

1167
00:57:18,858 --> 00:57:20,938
Speaker 3: can look at the Dan Campbell's of the world, the

1168
00:57:21,058 --> 00:57:23,898
Speaker 3: big time culture builders of the world, and there's plenty

1169
00:57:23,898 --> 00:57:25,418
Speaker 3: of guys in Dan Campbell.

1170
00:57:25,298 --> 00:57:27,738
Speaker 2: I would say the guy of the Mike Rabel mold

1171
00:57:27,818 --> 00:57:30,978
Speaker 2: that is having the least success that we talked about

1172
00:57:30,978 --> 00:57:33,258
Speaker 2: as Sean McDermott. And you've wanted the Patriots to be

1173
00:57:33,338 --> 00:57:37,658
Speaker 2: the Bills for years now. See I I look at

1174
00:57:37,658 --> 00:57:40,538
Speaker 2: the Bills as the apex of what they could be

1175
00:57:40,578 --> 00:57:43,498
Speaker 2: with Mike Rabel and no, the Lions are the apex

1176
00:57:43,538 --> 00:57:44,618
Speaker 2: of what they could be with Mike Rable.

1177
00:57:44,698 --> 00:57:46,898
Speaker 3: No, I disagree. I think the Bills are because the

1178
00:57:47,058 --> 00:57:50,218
Speaker 3: Lions are not built. Their offense is not being elevated

1179
00:57:50,218 --> 00:57:53,218
Speaker 3: by their quarterback. There are their their scheme in their

1180
00:57:53,578 --> 00:57:54,938
Speaker 3: entire thing is elevator.

1181
00:57:54,978 --> 00:57:56,858
Speaker 2: So what happens if you put a really good quarterback

1182
00:57:56,898 --> 00:57:57,458
Speaker 2: in that scheme?

1183
00:57:58,938 --> 00:58:01,338
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. You take Ben Johnson,

1184
00:58:01,498 --> 00:58:03,178
Speaker 3: you bring him here, you put Drake.

1185
00:58:03,058 --> 00:58:06,378
Speaker 2: Man, Team Rabel, find an offensive coordinator that has some

1186
00:58:06,418 --> 00:58:09,178
Speaker 2: sort of you think they're just done with offensive coordinators.

1187
00:58:09,218 --> 00:58:12,258
Speaker 2: There's no more innovative offensive coordinators. There's like, if you

1188
00:58:12,258 --> 00:58:14,858
Speaker 2: don't get Ben Johnson, you'll never get an innovator. Ever. Again,

1189
00:58:15,098 --> 00:58:17,618
Speaker 2: I think it's possible. You don't try this all. It's

1190
00:58:17,618 --> 00:58:19,538
Speaker 2: not how the NFL works. I just haven't heard the name.

1191
00:58:20,018 --> 00:58:22,898
Speaker 2: It's not Tommy Rees. I'm sorry you you haven't right. Well,

1192
00:58:23,018 --> 00:58:26,178
Speaker 2: the guy for Ben Johnson's not Joe Philbin. I'm sorry, Okay,

1193
00:58:26,258 --> 00:58:29,538
Speaker 2: Well I was. That was one name that connected to

1194
00:58:29,778 --> 00:58:31,978
Speaker 2: Joe Philbin. They were. Reality is the guys you're looking

1195
00:58:32,018 --> 00:58:34,458
Speaker 2: at for rape the guys the guy you're looking at

1196
00:58:34,738 --> 00:58:40,098
Speaker 2: to support Ben Johnson needs to be one of those

1197
00:58:40,138 --> 00:58:43,298
Speaker 2: household name kind of guys. Because you need a guy

1198
00:58:43,298 --> 00:58:46,378
Speaker 2: that he's not just taking over any NFL team. He's

1199
00:58:46,378 --> 00:58:48,898
Speaker 2: taking over the New England Patriots. There's a spotlight here,

1200
00:58:49,018 --> 00:58:51,058
Speaker 2: there's a pressure here. You're only getting in a few

1201
00:58:51,058 --> 00:58:55,458
Speaker 2: other spots. It's not Detroit's in the spotlight. But that's different.

1202
00:58:55,938 --> 00:58:59,018
Speaker 2: That team was bad for a long time. The expectations

1203
00:58:59,018 --> 00:59:01,058
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to manage her different. You need a

1204
00:59:01,098 --> 00:59:03,578
Speaker 2: guy who's been through the ringer, who's been in front

1205
00:59:03,578 --> 00:59:05,738
Speaker 2: of one hundred campers, who's been pressed with the tough

1206
00:59:05,818 --> 00:59:08,098
Speaker 2: questions to lead him through that. When we talk about

1207
00:59:08,098 --> 00:59:10,698
Speaker 2: the guy to support Mike Rabel, we're talking about a

1208
00:59:10,698 --> 00:59:12,418
Speaker 2: guy who's a tight ends coach somewhere right now, or

1209
00:59:12,418 --> 00:59:14,258
Speaker 2: an offensive line coach, or an assistant this or an

1210
00:59:14,258 --> 00:59:17,018
Speaker 2: assistant that is not a household name kind of guy

1211
00:59:17,738 --> 00:59:21,418
Speaker 2: that doesn't necessarily make one better or worse, but one

1212
00:59:21,498 --> 00:59:23,298
Speaker 2: name should be easier to pull off top of your head,

1213
00:59:23,298 --> 00:59:25,218
Speaker 2: and in the other I think.

1214
00:59:25,098 --> 00:59:27,898
Speaker 3: It's easier to find than Ben Johnson guy, because the

1215
00:59:27,898 --> 00:59:31,378
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson guy is all those types of guys are.

1216
00:59:31,538 --> 00:59:34,898
Speaker 3: Let's face it, they failed as head coaches in the

1217
00:59:34,938 --> 00:59:38,018
Speaker 3: league and are now just consulting or aiding with guys.

1218
00:59:38,178 --> 00:59:38,978
Speaker 2: There's plenty of those.

1219
00:59:39,058 --> 00:59:42,098
Speaker 3: There's plenty of coaches that have gotten fired or that aren't,

1220
00:59:42,298 --> 00:59:44,738
Speaker 3: you know, directly coaching right now for whatever reason.

1221
00:59:44,978 --> 00:59:48,298
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I hear you. There's probably a Joe

1222
00:59:48,338 --> 00:59:51,698
Speaker 2: Brady or someone along those lines that's out there, and

1223
00:59:51,738 --> 00:59:53,818
Speaker 2: we are the problems NFL guys. We didn't even go

1224
00:59:53,858 --> 00:59:54,658
Speaker 2: to college. Okay.

1225
00:59:54,658 --> 00:59:56,498
Speaker 3: But the problem is is that to me, is that

1226
00:59:56,618 --> 00:59:59,378
Speaker 3: Drake Mayson a different part of his development than Josh Allen.

1227
00:59:59,498 --> 01:00:02,418
Speaker 3: Was Josh Allen when Brian Dable left, was already three

1228
01:00:02,498 --> 01:00:05,498
Speaker 3: four years into his development. We're talking about Drake going

1229
01:00:05,538 --> 01:00:09,658
Speaker 3: into year two of his development. So your concerns about

1230
01:00:09,658 --> 01:00:12,618
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson being inexperienced from the culture side and from

1231
01:00:12,618 --> 01:00:15,978
Speaker 3: the team building side, my concern is that the coordinator

1232
01:00:16,018 --> 01:00:18,778
Speaker 3: is going to be inexperienced or he's going to be

1233
01:00:19,138 --> 01:00:21,658
Speaker 3: a retread, which I have no desire to do.

1234
01:00:21,938 --> 01:00:22,298
Speaker 2: Okay.

1235
01:00:22,378 --> 01:00:25,578
Speaker 3: So if you hire a college coordinator, or you hire

1236
01:00:25,978 --> 01:00:28,658
Speaker 3: a thirty five year old Joe Brady who has really

1237
01:00:28,698 --> 01:00:31,898
Speaker 3: never called plays before, never ran offense, he is now

1238
01:00:31,978 --> 01:00:34,698
Speaker 3: gonna be paired with a second year quarterback and now

1239
01:00:34,738 --> 01:00:38,338
Speaker 3: we're inexperienced. Right, Both quarterback and OC are inexperience.

1240
01:00:38,418 --> 01:00:40,818
Speaker 2: It's the quarterback and the coach are inexperienced if it's

1241
01:00:40,818 --> 01:00:43,338
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson. But Ben Jones is not inexperienced with calling

1242
01:00:43,418 --> 01:00:45,738
Speaker 2: the offense. But there's so much more to it than

1243
01:00:45,778 --> 01:00:50,058
Speaker 2: calling the offense. There's so so, so much more. It's

1244
01:00:50,138 --> 01:00:50,658
Speaker 2: not the same.

1245
01:00:50,738 --> 01:00:53,938
Speaker 3: And why can't we properly support Ben Johnson this time around?

1246
01:00:54,418 --> 01:00:58,138
Speaker 3: Why can't we get with with the legitimate front office executive,

1247
01:00:58,258 --> 01:01:02,938
Speaker 3: Ray Agnew, who's been around. Okay, Ray Agnew is your

1248
01:01:02,938 --> 01:01:05,138
Speaker 3: general manager, which I think is where this is trending

1249
01:01:05,178 --> 01:01:08,738
Speaker 3: for Ben Johnson. And you bring in somebody like a

1250
01:01:08,858 --> 01:01:11,458
Speaker 3: Joe Philbin who has coached in the league before. I know,

1251
01:01:11,538 --> 01:01:14,578
Speaker 3: Joe Philbin isn't the Super Bowl winning coach. If he was,

1252
01:01:14,778 --> 01:01:16,698
Speaker 3: he would probably still be a head coach and still

1253
01:01:16,698 --> 01:01:21,258
Speaker 3: be Okay. I mean, look, I Wade Phillips is a

1254
01:01:21,258 --> 01:01:24,178
Speaker 3: great coach. I think Lou Anamo and Patrick grahmm are too.

1255
01:01:24,218 --> 01:01:26,178
Speaker 3: Great defensive coordinator candidate.

1256
01:01:25,938 --> 01:01:29,818
Speaker 2: But it's not just about managing the defense. To me, though,

1257
01:01:29,858 --> 01:01:30,218
Speaker 2: it is.

1258
01:01:30,538 --> 01:01:32,858
Speaker 3: All I want is for him to hire That was

1259
01:01:32,938 --> 01:01:37,418
Speaker 3: Draw's mistake. He hired inexperience all over his staff. Grod

1260
01:01:37,458 --> 01:01:40,778
Speaker 3: Mayo needed experienced coordinators and not Alex fmpeld had the

1261
01:01:40,858 --> 01:01:43,218
Speaker 3: years of service, but it never call plays. I think

1262
01:01:43,298 --> 01:01:46,138
Speaker 3: if lou Ana Arrumo comes here with Ben Johnson, lou

1263
01:01:46,178 --> 01:01:48,658
Speaker 3: Ana Arumo has been calling a defense for half a decade.

1264
01:01:48,698 --> 01:01:51,698
Speaker 3: Now he's going to be head coach defense. He's going

1265
01:01:51,778 --> 01:01:54,738
Speaker 3: to have that under wraps. He's not calling plays for

1266
01:01:54,778 --> 01:01:57,578
Speaker 3: the first time. He's not DeMarcus Covington in his backyard

1267
01:01:57,658 --> 01:02:01,058
Speaker 3: simulating games in the springtime. He's done done it before,

1268
01:02:01,298 --> 01:02:05,218
Speaker 3: and he's he's all set. Ben Johnson's got the offense, big,

1269
01:02:05,298 --> 01:02:06,338
Speaker 3: who's got the defense?

1270
01:02:07,698 --> 01:02:11,778
Speaker 2: That's it? Like, I don't understand where where you're like say, inexperience.

1271
01:02:11,858 --> 01:02:14,978
Speaker 2: It's not a bad the day to day Who in

1272
01:02:15,018 --> 01:02:19,058
Speaker 2: that building has run an organization day to day? Agnew Hassen.

1273
01:02:19,178 --> 01:02:21,338
Speaker 3: So then why does any other then why does any

1274
01:02:21,418 --> 01:02:24,098
Speaker 3: other team hire our first time head coach? Like if if,

1275
01:02:24,338 --> 01:02:27,058
Speaker 3: if it never works with Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay,

1276
01:02:27,058 --> 01:02:29,218
Speaker 3: who was like thirty three when he got the Giants.

1277
01:02:29,378 --> 01:02:31,898
Speaker 2: Can be done the right way. I think there is

1278
01:02:31,938 --> 01:02:33,578
Speaker 2: a right way to do that. There is a right

1279
01:02:33,618 --> 01:02:35,778
Speaker 2: time in place to do that. McVeigh made a lot

1280
01:02:35,778 --> 01:02:38,578
Speaker 2: of sense that kind of had some pieces in place already.

1281
01:02:38,738 --> 01:02:41,898
Speaker 2: They brought in They brought in Wade Phillips. I think

1282
01:02:41,938 --> 01:02:43,978
Speaker 2: some of these other teams they had a strong culture

1283
01:02:44,058 --> 01:02:47,018
Speaker 2: in place, right If it had so, I was I

1284
01:02:48,018 --> 01:02:49,738
Speaker 2: last year would have made more sense than this year

1285
01:02:49,778 --> 01:02:52,018
Speaker 2: because the Belichick culture was in place and you had

1286
01:02:52,058 --> 01:02:54,058
Speaker 2: those leaders in the locker room and you had those guys.

1287
01:02:54,338 --> 01:02:55,978
Speaker 2: It would have made more sense because you kind of

1288
01:02:56,018 --> 01:02:58,898
Speaker 2: hope Ben Johnson piggybacks off of that. Now you need

1289
01:02:58,938 --> 01:03:01,338
Speaker 2: a full in total reset, and so I think you

1290
01:03:01,418 --> 01:03:04,178
Speaker 2: want somebody who has proven in the past that they

1291
01:03:04,258 --> 01:03:08,058
Speaker 2: can get that out of an organization. Why do you

1292
01:03:08,138 --> 01:03:11,498
Speaker 2: want to ruin my fun because it's not what it's about.

1293
01:03:11,578 --> 01:03:15,018
Speaker 2: It's not about you having fun watching film on Monday

1294
01:03:15,018 --> 01:03:17,298
Speaker 2: with your pants off. It's about getting back to a

1295
01:03:17,338 --> 01:03:17,898
Speaker 2: super Bowl.

1296
01:03:19,058 --> 01:03:21,258
Speaker 3: Because scoring thirty a game with Ben Johnson isn't going

1297
01:03:21,298 --> 01:03:23,058
Speaker 3: to get them back to a super Bowl.

1298
01:03:23,538 --> 01:03:25,218
Speaker 2: Wats a team in the league score thirty game, don't

1299
01:03:25,218 --> 01:03:27,498
Speaker 2: get to Super Bowl? Okay, well, lots of team only one,

1300
01:03:28,178 --> 01:03:30,778
Speaker 2: only one game, and it doesn't matter exactly. We take

1301
01:03:30,898 --> 01:03:32,698
Speaker 2: if you score thirty game for one year, but the

1302
01:03:32,698 --> 01:03:34,818
Speaker 2: culture sucks and everybody wants out and you have to

1303
01:03:34,818 --> 01:03:35,378
Speaker 2: blow the whole thing.

1304
01:03:35,538 --> 01:03:37,578
Speaker 3: Come on, there's a scare thirty plus a game with

1305
01:03:37,618 --> 01:03:39,698
Speaker 3: the culture sucking that doesn't happen.

1306
01:03:40,498 --> 01:03:42,858
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen. How many points of games Miami scoring

1307
01:03:43,058 --> 01:03:45,818
Speaker 2: here hurt when two has been in? How many points

1308
01:03:45,818 --> 01:03:48,138
Speaker 2: of games Miami is Miami been scoring? They score a

1309
01:03:48,218 --> 01:03:50,818
Speaker 2: lot of points. I just I'm not all soft to

1310
01:03:50,858 --> 01:03:53,578
Speaker 2: go back to the top. That's because the coach to

1311
01:03:53,658 --> 01:03:56,778
Speaker 2: go back to the top. Yes, I don't think you

1312
01:03:56,818 --> 01:03:59,098
Speaker 2: want I don't think this is I don't think Ben

1313
01:03:59,178 --> 01:04:01,938
Speaker 2: Johnson's a bad higher. I don't think Ben Johnson's bad

1314
01:04:01,978 --> 01:04:04,378
Speaker 2: higher said, it's such a top take. You want your

1315
01:04:04,498 --> 01:04:06,218
Speaker 2: your hard nosed football guy.

1316
01:04:06,458 --> 01:04:09,178
Speaker 3: If you see Mike Rabel and training can't put on

1317
01:04:09,258 --> 01:04:12,578
Speaker 3: the pads and get into the trenches and rush the passer.

1318
01:04:12,458 --> 01:04:14,258
Speaker 2: On the sky. I don't want the coach too.

1319
01:04:16,538 --> 01:04:19,298
Speaker 3: You want him to say and his introductory press conference

1320
01:04:19,338 --> 01:04:21,498
Speaker 3: that we're gonna start biting knee caps and.

1321
01:04:21,898 --> 01:04:23,458
Speaker 2: No, because I don't want him to be a fake Dan.

1322
01:04:24,418 --> 01:04:26,538
Speaker 2: I wanted to go up. Yes, I'll say I wouldn't

1323
01:04:26,618 --> 01:04:28,458
Speaker 2: say we're gonna be a tough, physical football team. We're

1324
01:04:28,458 --> 01:04:31,258
Speaker 2: gonna be accountable. There's gonna be leadership, and we're gonna

1325
01:04:31,258 --> 01:04:33,058
Speaker 2: build this thing back up the right way. That's what

1326
01:04:33,058 --> 01:04:36,298
Speaker 2: I want to see. You shortcuts, no shortcuts. If they win,

1327
01:04:36,938 --> 01:04:39,298
Speaker 2: if they win every game twenty eight to seventeen, great,

1328
01:04:39,618 --> 01:04:42,738
Speaker 2: that's awesome because they're winning the games. I don't care

1329
01:04:42,778 --> 01:04:45,738
Speaker 2: about style points. Nobody should care about style points. You

1330
01:04:45,858 --> 01:04:48,778
Speaker 2: covered a Bill Belichick team. You watched a Bill Belichick

1331
01:04:48,778 --> 01:04:53,498
Speaker 2: team for your entire care stop points on defense as

1332
01:04:53,578 --> 01:04:55,178
Speaker 2: much a they had him on offense. Don't you forget

1333
01:04:55,378 --> 01:04:57,618
Speaker 2: you can get style points on defense too. Here's my

1334
01:04:57,778 --> 01:05:00,178
Speaker 2: point I think you are. Here's I think you are.

1335
01:05:00,178 --> 01:05:02,538
Speaker 2: Here's my point. I don't think Ben Johnson would be

1336
01:05:02,618 --> 01:05:05,178
Speaker 2: a bad higher because he is what's best for Drake May.

1337
01:05:05,618 --> 01:05:07,578
Speaker 2: Is he what's best for the entire organization. I don't

1338
01:05:07,578 --> 01:05:09,738
Speaker 2: nobody's what's best for Drake May. But if you hire

1339
01:05:09,778 --> 01:05:13,738
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson, yes, you have not answered the most pressing

1340
01:05:13,858 --> 01:05:17,058
Speaker 2: questions of the girod Mayo era. Those are still unknowns.

1341
01:05:17,658 --> 01:05:20,378
Speaker 2: Maybe they get better under Ben Johnson, but they are

1342
01:05:20,418 --> 01:05:24,378
Speaker 2: still unknowns. A better coordinator than You're not hiring him

1343
01:05:24,378 --> 01:05:28,058
Speaker 2: to be a coordinator a coordinator, hiring him to be

1344
01:05:28,138 --> 01:05:32,338
Speaker 2: a co and I'm hiring him to ride to the

1345
01:05:32,338 --> 01:05:37,138
Speaker 2: football team game. Hey, buck stops with him. He is

1346
01:05:37,178 --> 01:05:37,738
Speaker 2: the boss.

1347
01:05:37,898 --> 01:05:40,418
Speaker 3: So Kyle Shannan's a shitty head coach, is what you're saying.

1348
01:05:40,538 --> 01:05:42,818
Speaker 3: Sean McVay is not a good head coach. Kevin O'Connell's

1349
01:05:42,898 --> 01:05:45,298
Speaker 3: I think Sean McVay, none of these guys. Matt Lafour

1350
01:05:45,378 --> 01:05:46,778
Speaker 3: is not a good h so, okay, hang on, none

1351
01:05:46,818 --> 01:05:47,938
Speaker 3: of these guys figured it out.

1352
01:05:47,978 --> 01:05:50,258
Speaker 2: I've said for a long time, I think Kyle Shanahan's overrated.

1353
01:05:50,338 --> 01:05:51,818
Speaker 2: I've said that. I'm on the record with that. I

1354
01:05:51,858 --> 01:05:53,778
Speaker 2: will stand by that in the Super Bowl every other

1355
01:05:54,538 --> 01:05:56,898
Speaker 2: who else did you say there before McVeigh Because I'll

1356
01:05:56,898 --> 01:05:59,618
Speaker 2: give you my take on I like O'Connor. Let's see

1357
01:05:59,618 --> 01:06:00,938
Speaker 2: what he can do. I think it helps that he

1358
01:06:01,018 --> 01:06:04,778
Speaker 2: is Brian Flores. O'Connell might be a culture builder. O'Connell

1359
01:06:04,858 --> 01:06:08,098
Speaker 2: might not. I don't know whether he is or not.

1360
01:06:08,218 --> 01:06:10,338
Speaker 2: I just don't think taking that risk right now is

1361
01:06:10,378 --> 01:06:14,298
Speaker 2: the best option with Mike Rabel available on Sean McVay.

1362
01:06:14,698 --> 01:06:16,778
Speaker 2: A couple of things. Sean McVay is the unicorn in

1363
01:06:16,778 --> 01:06:21,258
Speaker 2: my opinion, right is Sean McVay the ceilingers he the

1364
01:06:21,298 --> 01:06:23,258
Speaker 2: exception of the rule. I think he might be the

1365
01:06:23,258 --> 01:06:26,058
Speaker 2: exception of the rule. In expecting Ben Johnson to be

1366
01:06:26,058 --> 01:06:28,578
Speaker 2: Sean McVay might be fools Erron. Why is Sean McVay

1367
01:06:28,618 --> 01:06:30,258
Speaker 2: the exception of the rule? Wise he had the successity

1368
01:06:30,298 --> 01:06:32,818
Speaker 2: out one. I think his time with Wade Phillips was

1369
01:06:32,898 --> 01:06:35,498
Speaker 2: very important, and that was very important his development as

1370
01:06:35,538 --> 01:06:38,058
Speaker 2: a head coach as a leader of a football program.

1371
01:06:38,218 --> 01:06:40,018
Speaker 2: So you tell me who he's gonna learn that from,

1372
01:06:40,058 --> 01:06:41,818
Speaker 2: It's not loui An Rumo, because he doesn't have the

1373
01:06:41,898 --> 01:06:45,658
Speaker 2: experience in that regard that that Wade Phillips did. The

1374
01:06:45,698 --> 01:06:48,578
Speaker 2: other thing, it took time. It took Sean McVay a

1375
01:06:48,578 --> 01:06:51,138
Speaker 2: few years to get to where he is now. Is

1376
01:06:51,218 --> 01:06:56,338
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson not really? Yes, it did. They got that

1377
01:06:56,538 --> 01:06:59,458
Speaker 2: boost they had in eighteen then they kind of fell

1378
01:06:59,498 --> 01:07:01,698
Speaker 2: back down and he'd have built it back up again.

1379
01:07:02,578 --> 01:07:06,738
Speaker 2: Is Ben Johnson going to have that time in New England?

1380
01:07:06,818 --> 01:07:10,098
Speaker 2: In terms of pressure on the organization? There might not

1381
01:07:10,178 --> 01:07:12,698
Speaker 2: be two teams that are more polar opposite than the

1382
01:07:12,698 --> 01:07:15,578
Speaker 2: New England Patriots and the Los Angeles Rams. Is Ben

1383
01:07:15,658 --> 01:07:18,218
Speaker 2: Johnson going to have the time to learn what he

1384
01:07:18,298 --> 01:07:21,138
Speaker 2: needs to learn. Robert Kraft said the other day he

1385
01:07:21,178 --> 01:07:22,858
Speaker 2: still thinks straw and you know, some of this might

1386
01:07:22,858 --> 01:07:24,938
Speaker 2: have been playing policies, but he said he thinks straw,

1387
01:07:25,138 --> 01:07:27,818
Speaker 2: you know, in time can get there. But they needed

1388
01:07:27,818 --> 01:07:31,098
Speaker 2: to turn this thing around fast. Is Ben Johnson gonna

1389
01:07:31,098 --> 01:07:33,258
Speaker 2: be afforded the time that he needs that Sean McVay

1390
01:07:33,298 --> 01:07:34,778
Speaker 2: was afforded to get the where he needs to be.

1391
01:07:34,978 --> 01:07:37,258
Speaker 2: I think most coaches, most guys can get to this

1392
01:07:37,378 --> 01:07:40,298
Speaker 2: level if given the time, can be decent. The NFL

1393
01:07:40,338 --> 01:07:43,898
Speaker 2: is a patience problem. But is that guy getting that

1394
01:07:43,978 --> 01:07:44,458
Speaker 2: time here?

1395
01:07:44,698 --> 01:07:46,458
Speaker 3: So the difference to me and then I do want

1396
01:07:46,498 --> 01:07:48,938
Speaker 3: to open it up because we're gonna rant and rave

1397
01:07:49,018 --> 01:07:51,698
Speaker 3: about this in circles forever. And I should also mention

1398
01:07:51,818 --> 01:07:54,138
Speaker 3: for the seventeenth time, you're gonna end up getting your

1399
01:07:54,138 --> 01:07:55,978
Speaker 3: wish because Mike Vrabel is gonna be the next coach

1400
01:07:55,978 --> 01:07:58,178
Speaker 3: of the Patriots. Just my opinion, but I think that

1401
01:07:58,178 --> 01:07:59,338
Speaker 3: that's what's gonna happen anyway.

1402
01:07:59,378 --> 01:08:00,978
Speaker 2: So this is well, then that's all the pressure on

1403
01:08:01,058 --> 01:08:02,698
Speaker 2: me because you if he doesn't work out, you get

1404
01:08:02,738 --> 01:08:04,538
Speaker 2: to tell me I told you so all you want

1405
01:08:04,618 --> 01:08:07,818
Speaker 2: when freaking you know, and if he doesn't work out,

1406
01:08:07,818 --> 01:08:10,218
Speaker 2: O Larry and Curly to be his offensive coordinator. Hang on,

1407
01:08:10,258 --> 01:08:11,898
Speaker 2: if we're going by age, let me give you a name.

1408
01:08:12,018 --> 01:08:13,658
Speaker 2: Let me give you a name. This could really be

1409
01:08:13,698 --> 01:08:16,338
Speaker 2: for either of them. Okay, so hang on Kyle Flood,

1410
01:08:16,898 --> 01:08:19,777
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, like, what what do you wanted?

1411
01:08:19,898 --> 01:08:22,737
Speaker 3: Let's just run, Like, why don't we go back into

1412
01:08:22,818 --> 01:08:24,497
Speaker 3: nineteen forty and run the week?

1413
01:08:24,497 --> 01:08:28,057
Speaker 2: You know Kyle? Yes, I know Kyle Floder, the offense coordinator.

1414
01:08:28,378 --> 01:08:31,097
Speaker 2: I don't know where he was now, Okay, with Miami.

1415
01:08:31,778 --> 01:08:33,458
Speaker 2: I think you're thinking of somebody else. I don't think so.

1416
01:08:33,617 --> 01:08:35,777
Speaker 2: This is actually so. I wouldn't hire a Scott. Oh no,

1417
01:08:35,818 --> 01:08:37,577
Speaker 2: he was in the NFL very briefly. He was with

1418
01:08:37,617 --> 01:08:43,137
Speaker 2: the Falcons. Okay. He has been Steve Sarkesian's offensive coordinator

1419
01:08:43,138 --> 01:08:46,738
Speaker 2: at Texas since twenty twenty one. It's fifty three years old.

1420
01:08:46,937 --> 01:08:49,378
Speaker 2: All right, it's not that old. I'll take it. I

1421
01:08:49,378 --> 01:08:51,137
Speaker 2: don't know that i'd hire him, but like my point,

1422
01:08:51,178 --> 01:08:52,977
Speaker 2: like you can go down all these different rabbit holes.

1423
01:08:53,018 --> 01:08:56,577
Speaker 2: There's more people available at coaching level than you realize. Okay, well,

1424
01:08:56,737 --> 01:08:58,577
Speaker 2: one more name, Holman Wiggins, because I have to bring

1425
01:08:58,657 --> 01:09:01,017
Speaker 2: him up every time in Alabama, the one guy that's

1426
01:09:01,018 --> 01:09:04,617
Speaker 2: saving for whatever reason when he's at A and M Now, yeah, okay,

1427
01:09:04,697 --> 01:09:07,737
Speaker 2: so you you we digress because we're going to argue

1428
01:09:07,737 --> 01:09:11,657
Speaker 2: about this in circles. If this process continues, we're going

1429
01:09:11,697 --> 01:09:13,897
Speaker 2: to continue to argue about this in circles. I don't

1430
01:09:13,897 --> 01:09:14,937
Speaker 2: think it's continuing that long.

1431
01:09:15,058 --> 01:09:17,577
Speaker 3: I don't think so either. So that's where we're at

1432
01:09:17,617 --> 01:09:22,298
Speaker 3: with the cord, the coaches. It's no wrong answer in

1433
01:09:22,298 --> 01:09:26,977
Speaker 3: my opinion, but I definitely I just want to see

1434
01:09:27,058 --> 01:09:31,497
Speaker 3: this Patriots team and this Patriots offense specifically. I would

1435
01:09:31,537 --> 01:09:35,497
Speaker 3: like to see the Patriots modernize and innovate on offense.

1436
01:09:35,817 --> 01:09:38,177
Speaker 3: I think that they've tried it for too long now

1437
01:09:38,418 --> 01:09:41,458
Speaker 3: to run schemes that were twenty years old, right, and

1438
01:09:41,537 --> 01:09:43,418
Speaker 3: I think that they need to get into a scheme

1439
01:09:43,937 --> 01:09:46,657
Speaker 3: that is going to bring Drake May along and it's

1440
01:09:46,657 --> 01:09:48,857
Speaker 3: gonna do all that sort of thing. So I think

1441
01:09:48,897 --> 01:09:50,537
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson is a guy for the time and let

1442
01:09:50,577 --> 01:09:52,258
Speaker 3: me that.

1443
01:09:52,178 --> 01:09:54,017
Speaker 2: Would be one of my first questions to Mike Rabel.

1444
01:09:54,098 --> 01:09:57,258
Speaker 2: That really the question, what's your plan on offense? And

1445
01:09:57,298 --> 01:10:00,338
Speaker 2: if he says, Josh McDaniels are gonna turn Drake May

1446
01:10:00,338 --> 01:10:02,577
Speaker 2: and or Tom Brady, I would be hesitant and you

1447
01:10:02,697 --> 01:10:04,777
Speaker 2: take a lot longer look at it if he says,

1448
01:10:04,817 --> 01:10:07,378
Speaker 2: you know, I was in Cleveland and I kind of,

1449
01:10:07,497 --> 01:10:09,817
Speaker 2: you know, networked around the league, and I here's some

1450
01:10:09,857 --> 01:10:12,418
Speaker 2: guys I have that are up and coming and they

1451
01:10:12,497 --> 01:10:15,378
Speaker 2: worked in these systems in Detroit and San Francisco and

1452
01:10:15,458 --> 01:10:17,577
Speaker 2: Green Bay, and I'd like to bring them on and

1453
01:10:17,657 --> 01:10:21,017
Speaker 2: kind of get them started. Then there you go. Then

1454
01:10:21,058 --> 01:10:24,178
Speaker 2: that like, I don't think Mike, I don't think it's

1455
01:10:24,178 --> 01:10:26,857
Speaker 2: safe to assume Mike Rabel won't go for that more

1456
01:10:26,897 --> 01:10:29,497
Speaker 2: modernized offense. It might not be putting the right tackle

1457
01:10:29,537 --> 01:10:37,497
Speaker 2: in motion, but happy there's a happy medium between that

1458
01:10:37,817 --> 01:10:41,017
Speaker 2: and you know, the old school Josh McDaniels off.

1459
01:10:41,058 --> 01:10:42,418
Speaker 3: So the last point I want to make on Ben

1460
01:10:42,458 --> 01:10:44,258
Speaker 3: Johnson and then I promise for there's a lot of

1461
01:10:44,258 --> 01:10:45,017
Speaker 3: emails and calls.

1462
01:10:45,058 --> 01:10:46,057
Speaker 2: I know, I see you all there.

1463
01:10:46,098 --> 01:10:47,657
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but we had to get this off our

1464
01:10:47,737 --> 01:10:49,577
Speaker 3: chest because we've been arguing about this off the air

1465
01:10:49,617 --> 01:10:53,178
Speaker 3: for three days. So now this is fun because I

1466
01:10:53,178 --> 01:10:55,017
Speaker 3: don't like that we yelled at each other. I don't

1467
01:10:55,058 --> 01:10:55,458
Speaker 3: like to yell.

1468
01:10:55,577 --> 01:10:56,897
Speaker 2: I do like that we yelled at each other.

1469
01:10:57,018 --> 01:11:00,017
Speaker 3: But the last thing I would say about Ben Johnson

1470
01:11:00,298 --> 01:11:03,657
Speaker 3: in support of him is that with Girodmeo, one of

1471
01:11:03,657 --> 01:11:06,577
Speaker 3: my biggest concerns going in and what ended up happening,

1472
01:11:07,098 --> 01:11:10,777
Speaker 3: was that even though he was a defensive guy, he

1473
01:11:10,817 --> 01:11:14,577
Speaker 3: didn't have the experience to truly own the defense right

1474
01:11:14,697 --> 01:11:16,937
Speaker 3: in terms of being a coordinator and a play caller

1475
01:11:16,978 --> 01:11:19,378
Speaker 3: before where the defensive side of the ball was going

1476
01:11:19,458 --> 01:11:22,937
Speaker 3: to be. You know, Demico, Ryans, Sean McDermott like, this

1477
01:11:22,978 --> 01:11:23,817
Speaker 3: is my defense.

1478
01:11:24,098 --> 01:11:25,977
Speaker 2: He didn't have the ownership of the defense, and I

1479
01:11:25,978 --> 01:11:27,338
Speaker 2: don't think they wanted him to. I don't think that

1480
01:11:27,378 --> 01:11:28,298
Speaker 2: was ever the plan, right.

1481
01:11:28,378 --> 01:11:30,178
Speaker 3: So that's why they're gonna hire a vaible because they

1482
01:11:30,218 --> 01:11:32,617
Speaker 3: want the CEO. They saw it with Bill. I think

1483
01:11:32,617 --> 01:11:33,738
Speaker 3: they saw it with Parcels.

1484
01:11:33,817 --> 01:11:37,018
Speaker 2: I think they want that guy, even if Rabel is

1485
01:11:37,018 --> 01:11:39,617
Speaker 2: the CEO. Yeah, I want him hands on with the

1486
01:11:39,657 --> 01:11:42,138
Speaker 2: defense like Mayo wasn't right. I want him doing what

1487
01:11:42,178 --> 01:11:44,418
Speaker 2: Bill did and going over the linebacker huddle and getting

1488
01:11:44,418 --> 01:11:46,378
Speaker 2: on the white board. And I want the same from

1489
01:11:46,418 --> 01:11:48,977
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson. On the offense, he was sinking and so

1490
01:11:49,537 --> 01:11:52,937
Speaker 2: he didn't. I don't believe he was able to really

1491
01:11:53,258 --> 01:11:56,298
Speaker 2: sink his teeth into the defense the way that maybe

1492
01:11:56,338 --> 01:12:00,058
Speaker 2: he envisioned doing because he didn't realize the breath of

1493
01:12:00,098 --> 01:12:02,657
Speaker 2: the job. He didn't realize all of the other things

1494
01:12:02,657 --> 01:12:04,697
Speaker 2: that were going to come with the job. Now, when

1495
01:12:04,697 --> 01:12:08,817
Speaker 2: you hire Ben Johnson to be your coach, you know

1496
01:12:09,418 --> 01:12:11,977
Speaker 2: that you're hiring the whiz kid, right, So you're hiring

1497
01:12:12,018 --> 01:12:14,617
Speaker 2: a play caller. You're hiring him to run your offense.

1498
01:12:14,777 --> 01:12:17,817
Speaker 2: So then you have to properly support him to allow

1499
01:12:17,897 --> 01:12:20,338
Speaker 2: him to do what he does better. Well, you need

1500
01:12:20,378 --> 01:12:22,258
Speaker 2: to make sure that the job doesn't suddenly become too

1501
01:12:22,298 --> 01:12:23,897
Speaker 2: big for him. And there's no way to know until

1502
01:12:23,897 --> 01:12:25,737
Speaker 2: he's in it. Like I'm not saying he is or

1503
01:12:25,737 --> 01:12:27,098
Speaker 2: he is, and I'm saying there's no way to know.

1504
01:12:27,418 --> 01:12:29,977
Speaker 2: And that's the risk in hiring him. If he knew, great,

1505
01:12:30,018 --> 01:12:32,378
Speaker 2: he'd be the obvious choice. And that's why it sucks

1506
01:12:32,378 --> 01:12:34,338
Speaker 2: that Brian day Ball went back to New York because

1507
01:12:34,338 --> 01:12:36,617
Speaker 2: I think we'd both probably he's sitting here pounding the

1508
01:12:36,617 --> 01:12:39,897
Speaker 2: table for Brian Daball if he was available. So with

1509
01:12:40,018 --> 01:12:43,338
Speaker 2: in with Rabel, yeah, you have to find like he's

1510
01:12:43,378 --> 01:12:45,817
Speaker 2: going to manage the organization, he's gonna be involved at

1511
01:12:45,817 --> 01:12:47,897
Speaker 2: the defense. But you don't want him being hands on

1512
01:12:47,978 --> 01:12:50,137
Speaker 2: with the offense. You've got to find somebody who could

1513
01:12:50,178 --> 01:12:52,058
Speaker 2: do that and do it at a level that's appropriate

1514
01:12:52,098 --> 01:12:56,017
Speaker 2: to the asset that you have in Drake may fair enough.

1515
01:12:56,138 --> 01:13:00,378
Speaker 3: I last thing it just with with Mayo when it

1516
01:13:00,458 --> 01:13:05,697
Speaker 3: came to his firing, yeap. Ultimately, I believe what got

1517
01:13:05,737 --> 01:13:09,777
Speaker 3: him fired was the messaging coming out of the building

1518
01:13:09,937 --> 01:13:12,737
Speaker 3: right and just, and I think within the building right

1519
01:13:12,777 --> 01:13:16,737
Speaker 3: in just the control of the situation. If he if

1520
01:13:16,737 --> 01:13:19,657
Speaker 3: it was just the football, as bad as the football was,

1521
01:13:19,697 --> 01:13:21,817
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong, because we lived it. It was

1522
01:13:21,857 --> 01:13:24,937
Speaker 3: bad as bad as the football was. If he had

1523
01:13:24,978 --> 01:13:28,017
Speaker 3: controlled the messaging in and out of the building, the

1524
01:13:28,058 --> 01:13:31,497
Speaker 3: press conferences, the july of eye of it all right,

1525
01:13:31,497 --> 01:13:35,057
Speaker 3: if right, if he's able to control all of that,

1526
01:13:35,098 --> 01:13:36,737
Speaker 3: I think he would have gotten the second season. I

1527
01:13:37,298 --> 01:13:38,897
Speaker 3: think you would have gotten an opportunity to grow into

1528
01:13:38,897 --> 01:13:42,218
Speaker 3: the job. But for me personally, because as you know,

1529
01:13:42,338 --> 01:13:44,817
Speaker 3: I'm more on the x's and NO'SE than on the

1530
01:13:44,817 --> 01:13:48,097
Speaker 3: culture side with the x's and no's. If I felt

1531
01:13:48,138 --> 01:13:53,057
Speaker 3: like Drod Mayo was a great defensive coordinator, not necessarily

1532
01:13:53,138 --> 01:13:56,537
Speaker 3: a great head coach yet, but a great defensive coordinator

1533
01:13:56,697 --> 01:13:59,097
Speaker 3: that could run and own that side of the football,

1534
01:13:59,378 --> 01:14:01,058
Speaker 3: then I would have been open to giving him a

1535
01:14:01,098 --> 01:14:04,218
Speaker 3: second season. But he never showed that he had the

1536
01:14:04,298 --> 01:14:06,977
Speaker 3: chops to do that. He never took ownership of the defense,

1537
01:14:07,258 --> 01:14:10,338
Speaker 3: and he never gave us any indication that what they

1538
01:14:10,338 --> 01:14:12,537
Speaker 3: were doing on defense was gonna work, whether it was

1539
01:14:12,577 --> 01:14:14,857
Speaker 3: the fundamentals of the defense or it was the scheme.

1540
01:14:15,298 --> 01:14:18,937
Speaker 3: It never took on a Girodmeo identity where I could

1541
01:14:18,978 --> 01:14:21,497
Speaker 3: say and point we don't even be right, but we

1542
01:14:21,537 --> 01:14:25,057
Speaker 3: can't point my finger to and say that is cool,

1543
01:14:25,218 --> 01:14:28,458
Speaker 3: that is neat, that is good, that sound, let's keep

1544
01:14:28,497 --> 01:14:31,017
Speaker 3: doing that. They never got to that point on defense.

1545
01:14:31,697 --> 01:14:34,218
Speaker 3: I don't know if Ben Johnson's gonna be ready to

1546
01:14:34,298 --> 01:14:36,458
Speaker 3: do all the things that you're talking about, which you're valid.

1547
01:14:36,497 --> 01:14:39,098
Speaker 3: I opened the show saying all that was valid.

1548
01:14:40,018 --> 01:14:41,737
Speaker 2: And let me be clear, I'm not saying you can't.

1549
01:14:41,937 --> 01:14:43,777
Speaker 2: I'm just saying it's an unknown and that's the risk,

1550
01:14:43,857 --> 01:14:46,817
Speaker 2: and it's you're not answering the biggest questions of the

1551
01:14:46,857 --> 01:14:48,177
Speaker 2: Dard Mayo er. You're enough.

1552
01:14:48,378 --> 01:14:49,857
Speaker 3: I don't know if Ben Johnson can do that kind

1553
01:14:49,897 --> 01:14:52,298
Speaker 3: of stuff right. The difference between him and Girod Mayo.

1554
01:14:52,777 --> 01:14:55,138
Speaker 3: I know for a fact the offense is gonna rock, right,

1555
01:14:55,218 --> 01:14:57,857
Speaker 3: you know imally it's gonna be clean. So I'm not

1556
01:14:57,897 --> 01:15:00,777
Speaker 3: gonna be worried about what does this guy do well?

1557
01:15:01,058 --> 01:15:02,458
Speaker 3: Because that's what it got to at the end of

1558
01:15:02,537 --> 01:15:05,458
Speaker 3: girodd I remember, I think it was on Unfiltered somebody

1559
01:15:05,497 --> 01:15:08,497
Speaker 3: called in and the four of us were asked, what

1560
01:15:08,577 --> 01:15:09,418
Speaker 3: does Girod.

1561
01:15:09,138 --> 01:15:12,138
Speaker 2: Mayo do well? Dead silence right, We did not have

1562
01:15:12,138 --> 01:15:14,218
Speaker 2: an answer. We thought it was controlling the locker room,

1563
01:15:14,258 --> 01:15:15,657
Speaker 2: and then we kind of found out late that that

1564
01:15:15,857 --> 01:15:17,737
Speaker 2: was it. No, like I will be able to say

1565
01:15:17,737 --> 01:15:19,737
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson kicks out, this might be the best way

1566
01:15:19,777 --> 01:15:22,057
Speaker 2: to put off. I think if you hire Ben Johnson,

1567
01:15:23,897 --> 01:15:25,817
Speaker 2: like if you hire either way, it's an upgrade. There's

1568
01:15:25,817 --> 01:15:27,577
Speaker 2: a reason these two are the top two guys available.

1569
01:15:28,298 --> 01:15:31,577
Speaker 2: If you hire Ben Johnson, you're steeled. You're still dealing

1570
01:15:31,577 --> 01:15:34,458
Speaker 2: with the biggest ifs of the drawd Mao era. If

1571
01:15:34,458 --> 01:15:37,458
Speaker 2: you hire Mike Rabel, you're still dealing with the biggest

1572
01:15:37,497 --> 01:15:40,418
Speaker 2: IFFs of the end, the very end last two years

1573
01:15:40,418 --> 01:15:42,737
Speaker 2: of the Bill Belichick era. So basically, where do you

1574
01:15:42,777 --> 01:15:44,058
Speaker 2: want to be do you want to be at the

1575
01:15:44,138 --> 01:15:47,017
Speaker 2: end of the Belichick and Rabel's not as good as Belichick. Obviously,

1576
01:15:47,138 --> 01:15:51,338
Speaker 2: Belichick is the program builder maybe in any sport ever,

1577
01:15:52,537 --> 01:15:56,098
Speaker 2: at least professional sports. But like, do you want to

1578
01:15:56,138 --> 01:15:58,458
Speaker 2: deal with questions about the offense or do you want

1579
01:15:58,458 --> 01:16:00,418
Speaker 2: to deal with questions about the culture and the direction

1580
01:16:00,577 --> 01:16:01,338
Speaker 2: inside the building?

1581
01:16:02,338 --> 01:16:06,097
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1582
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1583
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1584
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1586
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1590
01:16:32,697 --> 01:16:35,258
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1591
01:16:35,338 --> 01:16:39,017
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1592
01:16:39,098 --> 01:16:43,298
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1593
01:16:43,657 --> 01:16:48,577
Speaker 3: Memory Foam Comfort, super plushy plush upholstery, like what are

1594
01:16:48,577 --> 01:16:55,337
Speaker 3: these words and count them fourteen acres included. Now that's versatile. Yeah,

1595
01:16:55,458 --> 01:16:57,777
Speaker 3: So stop in and stock up for the new year

1596
01:16:57,817 --> 01:17:00,777
Speaker 3: at Bob's Discount Furniture, the official furniture score store of

1597
01:17:00,777 --> 01:17:05,497
Speaker 3: the New England Patriots. So uh uh, what is upholstery.

1598
01:17:06,378 --> 01:17:07,817
Speaker 2: Something to do with furniture? I think it's like, yeah,

1599
01:17:07,937 --> 01:17:11,058
Speaker 2: side part of the furniture, furniture. I know it's a

1600
01:17:11,098 --> 01:17:13,657
Speaker 2: furniture part of it. It's no, I thought it was

1601
01:17:13,697 --> 01:17:16,737
Speaker 2: the opposite pole. I don't even know stuff that holds

1602
01:17:17,018 --> 01:17:21,418
Speaker 2: starts with you. You acted like I was crazy for

1603
01:17:21,418 --> 01:17:25,258
Speaker 2: not knowing that I've heard it is. The upholstery is

1604
01:17:25,258 --> 01:17:29,257
Speaker 2: the work of providing furniture, especially seats with padding, springs, webbing,

1605
01:17:29,338 --> 01:17:33,458
Speaker 2: and fabric or leather covers. The word also refers to

1606
01:17:33,458 --> 01:17:37,657
Speaker 2: the materials used to upholster something. Okay, and that's that

1607
01:17:37,697 --> 01:17:40,058
Speaker 2: all right. Let's get to what's William Shakespeare famous for.

1608
01:17:40,418 --> 01:17:43,378
Speaker 3: Let's get to the phones, and hopefully everybody's hung on,

1609
01:17:43,378 --> 01:17:45,137
Speaker 3: because I know we've been leaving you on hold.

1610
01:17:45,338 --> 01:17:46,017
Speaker 2: Based on YouTube.

1611
01:17:46,018 --> 01:17:48,218
Speaker 3: I think the people enjoyed it, all right, Patty is

1612
01:17:48,218 --> 01:17:49,497
Speaker 3: an aguon what's up, Patty?

1613
01:17:51,058 --> 01:17:51,617
Speaker 7: What's going on?

1614
01:17:51,697 --> 01:17:52,057
Speaker 2: Gentlemen?

1615
01:17:52,058 --> 01:17:53,897
Speaker 7: Ev, and I just got to say to you that

1616
01:17:54,058 --> 01:17:57,858
Speaker 7: was a beautiful transition to the ad. First and foremost,

1617
01:17:58,737 --> 01:18:00,178
Speaker 7: I want to go over a couple of things, and

1618
01:18:00,218 --> 01:18:02,697
Speaker 7: then you know, it's off season, so I'm gonna end

1619
01:18:02,697 --> 01:18:06,617
Speaker 7: with a couple questions, as I always do. We had

1620
01:18:06,617 --> 01:18:09,258
Speaker 7: a caller call in to pee you yesterday saying how

1621
01:18:09,897 --> 01:18:11,977
Speaker 7: he'd be happy was either guy. And I'm kind of

1622
01:18:11,978 --> 01:18:15,977
Speaker 7: in that same boat. If I brutally honest, I am

1623
01:18:16,058 --> 01:18:18,617
Speaker 7: leaning more towards Brabil and it does I get a

1624
01:18:18,617 --> 01:18:20,338
Speaker 7: side with Alex. It has to do with a little

1625
01:18:20,338 --> 01:18:23,537
Speaker 7: bit of the unknown. But I also like Ev and

1626
01:18:23,537 --> 01:18:27,017
Speaker 7: I I think Brabel is smart enough to know the

1627
01:18:27,098 --> 01:18:29,817
Speaker 7: kind of asset that Drake May is and I mean

1628
01:18:29,857 --> 01:18:31,537
Speaker 7: a piece of smart does he thinks he is and

1629
01:18:31,577 --> 01:18:34,057
Speaker 7: everyone thinks he is. He's gonna see the talent and

1630
01:18:34,098 --> 01:18:38,057
Speaker 7: knows that he that's that's the you know, that's your

1631
01:18:38,098 --> 01:18:41,937
Speaker 7: ace of space, That's that's your trump card, that's that's

1632
01:18:41,978 --> 01:18:44,098
Speaker 7: that's your lottery ticket. That's the guy that's gonna bring

1633
01:18:44,178 --> 01:18:44,537
Speaker 7: it home.

1634
01:18:44,617 --> 01:18:44,817
Speaker 8: You know.

1635
01:18:45,497 --> 01:18:47,497
Speaker 2: Great way to put it, Patty, great way to put it.

1636
01:18:48,058 --> 01:18:51,738
Speaker 7: And and I like I do like I would parallel

1637
01:18:51,937 --> 01:18:54,777
Speaker 7: him more with parcels than with Belichick, because I think

1638
01:18:54,817 --> 01:18:56,817
Speaker 7: you I I think everyone in the media is going

1639
01:18:56,897 --> 01:18:59,977
Speaker 7: to eat up Rable at the podium because he's gonna

1640
01:19:00,018 --> 01:19:02,497
Speaker 7: have some smart ass remarks and be you know, a

1641
01:19:02,497 --> 01:19:06,137
Speaker 7: little stardonic and sarcastic and but but that has nothing

1642
01:19:06,138 --> 01:19:08,098
Speaker 7: to do with like the product on the field. I

1643
01:19:08,178 --> 01:19:10,298
Speaker 7: just like every other fan, I want the product on

1644
01:19:10,298 --> 01:19:11,977
Speaker 7: the field to be better, and I think with either

1645
01:19:12,018 --> 01:19:14,218
Speaker 7: of these two guys, it's going to improve within a

1646
01:19:14,258 --> 01:19:17,777
Speaker 7: couple of years, all right, So I want to I

1647
01:19:17,817 --> 01:19:21,017
Speaker 7: want some uh, I want some input on some players.

1648
01:19:21,258 --> 01:19:23,857
Speaker 7: And the first Alex, get your pen ready, because I

1649
01:19:23,857 --> 01:19:25,298
Speaker 7: want you to write it down so they don't forget.

1650
01:19:25,418 --> 01:19:27,137
Speaker 2: I'm on my computer in front of me today.

1651
01:19:27,218 --> 01:19:30,378
Speaker 7: Saw all right, there you go, buddy. So the first

1652
01:19:30,537 --> 01:19:33,378
Speaker 7: guy I want to know, or it's only one player.

1653
01:19:33,378 --> 01:19:35,098
Speaker 7: But then I have a question on our personnel. So

1654
01:19:35,218 --> 01:19:37,058
Speaker 7: I wanted to get your guys' opinions on poon A

1655
01:19:37,138 --> 01:19:39,817
Speaker 7: Ford if we're gonna kind of run the same the

1656
01:19:39,857 --> 01:19:43,097
Speaker 7: similar defense that we've been running for the past, you know,

1657
01:19:43,338 --> 01:19:47,497
Speaker 7: however many years it's been as a nose tackle. I

1658
01:19:47,577 --> 01:19:50,817
Speaker 7: think he's a good player. I think, honestly, I'll want

1659
01:19:50,817 --> 01:19:53,817
Speaker 7: to just kind of flush these turds like Jelani Tavai

1660
01:19:54,098 --> 01:19:58,218
Speaker 7: and Devin gotschat on the toilet and cut some of

1661
01:19:58,218 --> 01:20:01,218
Speaker 7: this dead weight. And do you guys think that's question one?

1662
01:20:01,338 --> 01:20:04,697
Speaker 7: Question two is some of the contracts that we signed

1663
01:20:04,777 --> 01:20:09,977
Speaker 7: last offseason, do you think not just cutting guys, but

1664
01:20:10,018 --> 01:20:12,937
Speaker 7: do you see us possibly moving on, like trying to

1665
01:20:12,978 --> 01:20:16,017
Speaker 7: trade some of these guys with either guy coming in

1666
01:20:16,058 --> 01:20:19,178
Speaker 7: with Johnson or Vrabel coming in. If if it's one

1667
01:20:19,178 --> 01:20:21,458
Speaker 7: of those two guys, and I'll take it off air,

1668
01:20:21,777 --> 01:20:25,258
Speaker 7: And who are those guys? If we do cut ties

1669
01:20:25,338 --> 01:20:26,897
Speaker 7: with some of these players that we signed the long

1670
01:20:26,978 --> 01:20:29,338
Speaker 7: term deals last year, that's all I got. I'll take

1671
01:20:29,338 --> 01:20:29,697
Speaker 7: it off air.

1672
01:20:29,737 --> 01:20:30,657
Speaker 2: Guys.

1673
01:20:31,018 --> 01:20:35,497
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely believe that some of those circle the

1674
01:20:35,497 --> 01:20:41,338
Speaker 3: Wagons Belichick era, Girodmeo era guys aren't necessarily safe if

1675
01:20:41,577 --> 01:20:43,178
Speaker 3: with this new head coach, because it's not gonna be

1676
01:20:43,258 --> 01:20:46,418
Speaker 3: his guys right talking about well, I would say, you

1677
01:20:46,418 --> 01:20:49,098
Speaker 3: know some of the guys he mentioned Godshaw, Jelani Tavai.

1678
01:20:50,537 --> 01:20:52,697
Speaker 2: I thought you're talking about the guys signed extensions last year.

1679
01:20:52,817 --> 01:20:55,737
Speaker 3: No, I don't think any of those guys necessarily It's

1680
01:20:55,737 --> 01:20:58,057
Speaker 3: also difficult unless you find a trade partner to get

1681
01:20:58,098 --> 01:20:58,737
Speaker 3: out in some of those.

1682
01:20:59,458 --> 01:21:02,097
Speaker 2: They're probably a year away from being able to get

1683
01:21:02,098 --> 01:21:03,097
Speaker 2: out of most of them, right.

1684
01:21:03,258 --> 01:21:05,537
Speaker 3: But I do think those Circle the Wagons guys in

1685
01:21:05,577 --> 01:21:09,338
Speaker 3: the locker room that they kept around, that they held over.

1686
01:21:09,577 --> 01:21:11,657
Speaker 2: You know, I don't necessarily say.

1687
01:21:11,497 --> 01:21:14,577
Speaker 3: This as a as a knock like. I'm not saying

1688
01:21:14,697 --> 01:21:18,017
Speaker 3: that they're bad players. I'm just saying that those those

1689
01:21:18,098 --> 01:21:22,137
Speaker 3: lunch pail guys were specifically lunch pale guys for this regime.

1690
01:21:22,298 --> 01:21:24,178
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, we talked about this last year and it

1691
01:21:24,218 --> 01:21:26,138
Speaker 2: didn't end up happening because it was this you know,

1692
01:21:26,178 --> 01:21:29,338
Speaker 2: same defensive coach. But yeah, new coach comes in, he's

1693
01:21:29,338 --> 01:21:31,777
Speaker 2: gonna want his guys. He's gonna wan. This goes back

1694
01:21:31,817 --> 01:21:34,777
Speaker 2: to program building, right, whether it's Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel,

1695
01:21:35,058 --> 01:21:38,017
Speaker 2: there are players in the league that they know can

1696
01:21:38,058 --> 01:21:41,217
Speaker 2: come in and set a tone and you know, they'll

1697
01:21:41,298 --> 01:21:43,258
Speaker 2: kind of show the way they want it to be done,

1698
01:21:43,897 --> 01:21:46,258
Speaker 2: and they're gonna go out and get a handful three

1699
01:21:46,338 --> 01:21:48,458
Speaker 2: four five of those guys probably either one and it's

1700
01:21:48,458 --> 01:21:51,298
Speaker 2: gonna be different players, whether it's Vrabel or Johnson, but

1701
01:21:52,138 --> 01:21:54,057
Speaker 2: they're gonna go out and they're gonna get those guys,

1702
01:21:54,098 --> 01:21:58,497
Speaker 2: and the previous culture guys are probably gonna be looking

1703
01:21:58,537 --> 01:22:02,418
Speaker 2: for new jobs. What do you think of Punifford. I've

1704
01:22:02,418 --> 01:22:04,177
Speaker 2: always liked this game. Yeah, he's a good player.

1705
01:22:04,258 --> 01:22:07,577
Speaker 3: Yeah, a solid nose tackle. I definitely think that they

1706
01:22:07,657 --> 01:22:10,378
Speaker 3: need to address the defensive line and free agency. I

1707
01:22:10,378 --> 01:22:12,497
Speaker 3: don't think you need to waste dress see a free agent.

1708
01:22:13,777 --> 01:22:15,497
Speaker 3: So I don't know off the top of my head,

1709
01:22:15,937 --> 01:22:17,817
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't think he would be brought up if

1710
01:22:17,817 --> 01:22:20,538
Speaker 3: he wasn't. I do think you can address the defensive

1711
01:22:20,537 --> 01:22:25,617
Speaker 3: line in free agency and bring in just some replacements

1712
01:22:25,817 --> 01:22:29,817
Speaker 3: and maybe some upgrades and younger players for a guy

1713
01:22:29,937 --> 01:22:35,217
Speaker 3: like Dietrich Wise, Daniel Qualley, Devon Godshaw. I think Gotshaw

1714
01:22:35,298 --> 01:22:39,378
Speaker 3: is still playing very very well, so I wouldn't necessarily

1715
01:22:39,378 --> 01:22:42,657
Speaker 3: put him in that category as quickly. But I don't

1716
01:22:42,697 --> 01:22:46,097
Speaker 3: necessarily believe that they're gonna have the luxury to address

1717
01:22:46,178 --> 01:22:48,497
Speaker 3: an interior defensive lineman in the draft. I know we

1718
01:22:48,537 --> 01:22:51,338
Speaker 3: get a lot of questions about guys like Mason Graham,

1719
01:22:51,338 --> 01:22:51,737
Speaker 3: and then.

1720
01:22:51,777 --> 01:22:54,977
Speaker 2: You can get I mean defensive tackles specifically. We talk

1721
01:22:55,018 --> 01:22:56,497
Speaker 2: about this every year, like you can get good nose

1722
01:22:56,537 --> 01:22:59,138
Speaker 2: tackles later because yeah, interesting, but right, I think what

1723
01:22:59,258 --> 01:23:03,258
Speaker 2: they really need, uh in and that interior is if

1724
01:23:03,298 --> 01:23:05,817
Speaker 2: they're gonna continue to be too gapping, which I think

1725
01:23:05,817 --> 01:23:09,138
Speaker 2: they probably would Underrabel, uh, they need some ends that

1726
01:23:09,218 --> 01:23:14,657
Speaker 2: can really play all situations. Yeah, like Barmore is one

1727
01:23:14,657 --> 01:23:17,657
Speaker 2: of those guys, hopefully when he comes back. But they

1728
01:23:17,697 --> 01:23:21,537
Speaker 2: were you know, Jeremiah Farms, Daniel Qualley, Dietrich Wise. Those

1729
01:23:21,577 --> 01:23:24,657
Speaker 2: guys did their best, but they just run defense and

1730
01:23:24,697 --> 01:23:27,617
Speaker 2: the ability to stop the run up front, the fundamentals

1731
01:23:28,338 --> 01:23:29,777
Speaker 2: that play blocks things like that.

1732
01:23:29,978 --> 01:23:32,138
Speaker 3: It wasn't good. It wasn't good enough. So you have

1733
01:23:32,178 --> 01:23:34,617
Speaker 3: to look at guys that can upgrade there. All right,

1734
01:23:34,978 --> 01:23:38,137
Speaker 3: let's get back to the phones, and it is Nate

1735
01:23:38,258 --> 01:23:38,857
Speaker 3: in Ohio.

1736
01:23:38,978 --> 01:23:39,617
Speaker 2: What's up? Nate?

1737
01:23:41,657 --> 01:23:41,817
Speaker 7: Hi?

1738
01:23:41,897 --> 01:23:42,378
Speaker 5: How's it going?

1739
01:23:42,458 --> 01:23:43,897
Speaker 2: Guys? Good? Thanks for holding on.

1740
01:23:45,258 --> 01:23:48,418
Speaker 5: So I just have a question, is far in the

1741
01:23:48,577 --> 01:23:53,857
Speaker 5: draft even if like at four, if Travis Hunter was there,

1742
01:23:54,577 --> 01:23:57,577
Speaker 5: would it be crazy to think about them possibly passing

1743
01:23:57,617 --> 01:24:00,777
Speaker 5: on him to take Will Campbell or Kelvin Banks. And

1744
01:24:00,817 --> 01:24:04,338
Speaker 5: then would you guys think that they would maybe sign

1745
01:24:04,497 --> 01:24:07,777
Speaker 5: like Will Fries or Trey Smith and free agency and

1746
01:24:07,857 --> 01:24:09,737
Speaker 5: kind of just shure up the offensive line. I think

1747
01:24:09,737 --> 01:24:11,857
Speaker 5: that would help Drake May and also help out the

1748
01:24:11,937 --> 01:24:15,378
Speaker 5: run game, and I'll take that off their I appreciate.

1749
01:24:15,018 --> 01:24:17,058
Speaker 2: It, thanks, Nate. I do not.

1750
01:24:17,817 --> 01:24:20,338
Speaker 3: I now put Travis Hunter even more on the table

1751
01:24:20,577 --> 01:24:22,577
Speaker 3: because I'm going to have more faith in the next

1752
01:24:22,617 --> 01:24:24,178
Speaker 3: head coach to figure Travis Hunter out.

1753
01:24:24,258 --> 01:24:25,418
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's not going to four.

1754
01:24:25,577 --> 01:24:28,977
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so either. But if off the

1755
01:24:29,018 --> 01:24:32,058
Speaker 3: off chance that he does get to or I'm just

1756
01:24:32,098 --> 01:24:34,017
Speaker 3: gonna assume it's gonna be Mike Rabel, don't you have

1757
01:24:34,058 --> 01:24:37,058
Speaker 3: a lot more faith in Mike Rabel figuring out drafts under.

1758
01:24:37,298 --> 01:24:38,577
Speaker 2: This is one of those things Like I said this

1759
01:24:38,617 --> 01:24:41,697
Speaker 2: with Caleb Williams last year. Though, if Travis Hunter falls

1760
01:24:41,697 --> 01:24:44,937
Speaker 2: to four, shouldn't that tell us something? If a guy

1761
01:24:44,978 --> 01:24:47,897
Speaker 2: that talented gets passed up by three talent starve teams,

1762
01:24:49,018 --> 01:24:51,817
Speaker 2: doesn't isn't that a red flag to you? Yes, So

1763
01:24:52,537 --> 01:24:55,298
Speaker 2: at that point, find somebody really wants him, trade it,

1764
01:24:55,338 --> 01:24:57,458
Speaker 2: get a haul. I'm not saying I wouldn't take.

1765
01:24:57,418 --> 01:25:00,378
Speaker 3: Him, but at that point, it's because teams are afraid

1766
01:25:00,817 --> 01:25:02,657
Speaker 3: of where is he playing?

1767
01:25:02,697 --> 01:25:03,098
Speaker 2: What you know?

1768
01:25:03,657 --> 01:25:06,298
Speaker 3: And that happens you know well, and usually happens with

1769
01:25:06,497 --> 01:25:08,977
Speaker 3: lesser prospects, right, but it certainly he.

1770
01:25:08,937 --> 01:25:11,097
Speaker 2: May go into every meeting and say I'm playing wide receiver.

1771
01:25:11,178 --> 01:25:13,217
Speaker 2: Don't draft me if you don't want me playing wide receiver,

1772
01:25:13,737 --> 01:25:16,217
Speaker 2: and teams may say, no, we see he as a corner.

1773
01:25:16,537 --> 01:25:18,058
Speaker 2: Look if I'm the Patriots and I see him as

1774
01:25:18,098 --> 01:25:19,897
Speaker 2: a corner and he says he's gonna refuse to play corner,

1775
01:25:19,937 --> 01:25:23,857
Speaker 2: I wouldn't draft him. Yeah, like I So, yeah, there's

1776
01:25:24,058 --> 01:25:26,098
Speaker 2: he makes more sense now, But I still think the

1777
01:25:26,178 --> 01:25:27,697
Speaker 2: value you can get for that pick if he's on

1778
01:25:27,737 --> 01:25:32,137
Speaker 2: the board outweighs the value he brings. Yeah, that's fair,

1779
01:25:32,418 --> 01:25:35,418
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't. I wouldn't take campbeller Banks outright it

1780
01:25:35,497 --> 01:25:38,017
Speaker 2: for over him. If you can't move the pick, then

1781
01:25:38,058 --> 01:25:41,137
Speaker 2: yeah you take Hunter. Yeah. Sure. Todd is in North Carolina.

1782
01:25:41,178 --> 01:25:41,817
Speaker 2: What's up, Todd?

1783
01:25:43,378 --> 01:25:46,897
Speaker 4: Hey, guys. Uh, I'm just kind of I've been thinking

1784
01:25:46,897 --> 01:25:48,857
Speaker 4: about it. I'm a little bit disappointed in the Crafts

1785
01:25:49,737 --> 01:25:52,777
Speaker 4: because they put a first time head coach with a

1786
01:25:52,777 --> 01:25:57,497
Speaker 4: first time offensive coach OC and a first time DC

1787
01:25:57,617 --> 01:26:01,737
Speaker 4: and I don't know of any team anywhere that's had

1788
01:26:01,777 --> 01:26:05,737
Speaker 4: success with that kind of ill to climb, and it

1789
01:26:05,897 --> 01:26:09,537
Speaker 4: just it just felt awkward that they let that happen, Like,

1790
01:26:09,577 --> 01:26:12,178
Speaker 4: if you're going to be, what they say, the stewards

1791
01:26:12,178 --> 01:26:15,577
Speaker 4: for the team, why would you let the team stray

1792
01:26:15,617 --> 01:26:19,497
Speaker 4: that far away from having some solid coach at least

1793
01:26:19,617 --> 01:26:23,258
Speaker 4: somewhere in there to give some guidance. And my other

1794
01:26:23,298 --> 01:26:26,777
Speaker 4: problem is, is there any chance that anybody would keep

1795
01:26:26,777 --> 01:26:29,298
Speaker 4: a VP they came in, because I really think that

1796
01:26:29,777 --> 01:26:31,977
Speaker 4: he did a good with both of those young quarterbacks.

1797
01:26:32,018 --> 01:26:33,897
Speaker 4: It would be nice to just see maybe shim get

1798
01:26:33,897 --> 01:26:36,697
Speaker 4: a chance to grow with somebody who's got some talent.

1799
01:26:36,737 --> 01:26:38,178
Speaker 4: And that's it. That's all I got got.

1800
01:26:38,338 --> 01:26:40,458
Speaker 3: Thanks, good call, Todd. So I think that to the

1801
01:26:40,497 --> 01:26:42,577
Speaker 3: first point, I'm one hundred percent with you. This was

1802
01:26:42,657 --> 01:26:45,258
Speaker 3: and he said it to himself, right, Robert Gravie, And

1803
01:26:45,298 --> 01:26:46,458
Speaker 3: I give him a credit for this.

1804
01:26:46,537 --> 01:26:46,777
Speaker 2: Now.

1805
01:26:47,777 --> 01:26:51,098
Speaker 3: Why I'm not necessarily railing on him for it is

1806
01:26:51,138 --> 01:26:53,777
Speaker 3: because he failed fast, right, He realized that it was

1807
01:26:53,777 --> 01:26:56,217
Speaker 3: a mistake, right, and he corrected it and immediately would.

1808
01:26:56,018 --> 01:26:57,657
Speaker 2: Have been a much bigger mistake to double down and

1809
01:26:57,657 --> 01:26:58,097
Speaker 2: try a second.

1810
01:26:58,138 --> 01:27:00,817
Speaker 3: You're right, So it's it's pretty hard for us to

1811
01:27:00,857 --> 01:27:03,258
Speaker 3: then come on here and say what a mistake, what

1812
01:27:03,338 --> 01:27:06,898
Speaker 3: a mistake, and really rare rail on Ownership when Ownership

1813
01:27:06,937 --> 01:27:08,337
Speaker 3: came out and said we made a mistake.

1814
01:27:08,657 --> 01:27:11,458
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, no, absolutely. And to the second point on

1815
01:27:11,577 --> 01:27:13,338
Speaker 2: Van Pelt, Look, I think Van Pelt did a really

1816
01:27:13,378 --> 01:27:15,418
Speaker 2: good job is here. I think he did an underrated job.

1817
01:27:15,537 --> 01:27:18,378
Speaker 2: I think the circumstances, everything that was going on around him.

1818
01:27:18,418 --> 01:27:21,418
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe in like five years will look back at

1819
01:27:21,497 --> 01:27:23,657
Speaker 2: it and say, wow, he did. You know what he

1820
01:27:23,657 --> 01:27:25,977
Speaker 2: did with Drake May was should have gotten more credit

1821
01:27:26,018 --> 01:27:28,977
Speaker 2: in the time than he did. There is sort of

1822
01:27:28,978 --> 01:27:31,298
Speaker 2: a through line with him and for Able with Rabel's

1823
01:27:31,338 --> 01:27:36,137
Speaker 2: connections in Cleveland. But I think Rabel it to your point,

1824
01:27:36,978 --> 01:27:38,897
Speaker 2: and some of you've been hammering, I think Rabel's gonna

1825
01:27:38,937 --> 01:27:41,497
Speaker 2: have higher aspirations for the offense coordinator now if he

1826
01:27:41,497 --> 01:27:43,418
Speaker 2: does bring back Alex van Pelt. Takes away your whole

1827
01:27:43,497 --> 01:27:45,577
Speaker 2: argument about having to turn that thing over every year.

1828
01:27:46,258 --> 01:27:48,097
Speaker 2: And I don't think he's not coming back as quarterbacks coach.

1829
01:27:48,138 --> 01:27:51,058
Speaker 2: He's gonna get oc offers elsewhere off the job he

1830
01:27:51,098 --> 01:27:53,817
Speaker 2: did here might be back in Cleveland. But what he

1831
01:27:53,857 --> 01:27:55,897
Speaker 2: did with Drake May, what he did with Joe Milton,

1832
01:27:55,937 --> 01:27:58,218
Speaker 2: I only needed one game really to see. I do

1833
01:27:58,298 --> 01:28:00,977
Speaker 2: want to end with some that was that was well,

1834
01:28:01,058 --> 01:28:03,298
Speaker 2: let me just say that was a completely different player

1835
01:28:03,338 --> 01:28:04,777
Speaker 2: we saw on and I mean this is the most

1836
01:28:04,777 --> 01:28:08,218
Speaker 2: complimentary way possible. Seriously, that was a completely different player

1837
01:28:08,258 --> 01:28:09,737
Speaker 2: we saw on Sunday than we saw in the summer.

1838
01:28:10,018 --> 01:28:13,777
Speaker 2: That was a completely different quarterback. And Joe Milton himself

1839
01:28:13,817 --> 01:28:16,017
Speaker 2: deserves the most credit because he took the coaching and

1840
01:28:16,058 --> 01:28:17,897
Speaker 2: he put in the work and we know he worked

1841
01:28:17,897 --> 01:28:19,857
Speaker 2: hard behind the scenes and he took the right approach,

1842
01:28:19,897 --> 01:28:22,098
Speaker 2: and he deserves credit. Van Pelt deserves a ton of

1843
01:28:22,098 --> 01:28:25,378
Speaker 2: credit for that too, because you could argue there were

1844
01:28:25,418 --> 01:28:28,177
Speaker 2: definitely people who would have called Joe Milton the least

1845
01:28:28,218 --> 01:28:32,977
Speaker 2: developable quarterback in that draft, and Van Pelt it worked

1846
01:28:32,978 --> 01:28:33,817
Speaker 2: wonders with him.

1847
01:28:33,897 --> 01:28:39,738
Speaker 3: So I agree with you that there's probably a necessity

1848
01:28:39,777 --> 01:28:44,217
Speaker 3: to aim higher and probably honestly a what's the word

1849
01:28:45,138 --> 01:28:47,977
Speaker 3: a mandate to name higher? I think from the top,

1850
01:28:48,378 --> 01:28:52,098
Speaker 3: and that's just my belief my thoughts. But at the

1851
01:28:52,138 --> 01:28:56,617
Speaker 3: same time, there is a tie. You know, he was

1852
01:28:56,657 --> 01:29:00,897
Speaker 3: in Cleveland for this past season with Kevin Stefanski, who

1853
01:29:01,497 --> 01:29:03,777
Speaker 3: my guess is kind of regrets letting go of Alex

1854
01:29:03,857 --> 01:29:06,257
Speaker 3: Van Pelt with the seasons, so they had in Cleveland

1855
01:29:06,897 --> 01:29:10,697
Speaker 3: and We mentioned Lafloor and we mentioned Arthur Smith. Those

1856
01:29:10,697 --> 01:29:13,937
Speaker 3: are two West Coast coaches run very similar systems to

1857
01:29:13,978 --> 01:29:17,458
Speaker 3: what they run in Cleveland. There's definitely a tie that

1858
01:29:17,617 --> 01:29:19,378
Speaker 3: says it could work.

1859
01:29:19,458 --> 01:29:21,218
Speaker 2: And there's the former player thing, Like you look at

1860
01:29:21,258 --> 01:29:24,577
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson's staff, it's you look at Dan Campbell's staff.

1861
01:29:24,657 --> 01:29:27,657
Speaker 2: Ben Johnson's like the only non former player on that staff.

1862
01:29:27,737 --> 01:29:31,017
Speaker 2: So yeah, there's an inherent tie too between former players

1863
01:29:31,018 --> 01:29:32,057
Speaker 2: when you get to the coaching level.

1864
01:29:32,138 --> 01:29:36,057
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I I'm not one hundred percent here for it,

1865
01:29:36,098 --> 01:29:37,937
Speaker 3: because I do think you can aim higher, and I

1866
01:29:37,937 --> 01:29:40,897
Speaker 3: do think you can get a better offensive coordinator, not

1867
01:29:40,897 --> 01:29:42,657
Speaker 3: a quarterbacks coach, but a better offense.

1868
01:29:42,737 --> 01:29:46,138
Speaker 2: Let me put it this way, I'd be surprised if

1869
01:29:47,018 --> 01:29:49,777
Speaker 2: Rabel or Ben Johnson, for that matter, like you got

1870
01:29:49,777 --> 01:29:51,977
Speaker 2: at least interview Van Pelt and kind of pick his

1871
01:29:52,018 --> 01:29:54,057
Speaker 2: brain on what he did he should at least, And

1872
01:29:54,258 --> 01:29:56,537
Speaker 2: I know it sounds kind of pathetic interview for your

1873
01:29:56,577 --> 01:29:59,218
Speaker 2: own job. Like if there's guys who're gonna talk about

1874
01:29:59,258 --> 01:30:00,777
Speaker 2: from this staff that I'd like to see the current

1875
01:30:00,777 --> 01:30:03,817
Speaker 2: coach keep, It's not a long list, but Alex man

1876
01:30:03,817 --> 01:30:05,657
Speaker 2: Pell and I don't think that one's realistic, the other

1877
01:30:05,657 --> 01:30:08,657
Speaker 2: three and more realistic. I wouldn't hate if they kept

1878
01:30:08,657 --> 01:30:11,937
Speaker 2: Scott Peters. And there's another through line there with Rabel. Yeah,

1879
01:30:12,138 --> 01:30:14,657
Speaker 2: I think as bad as the offensive line was for

1880
01:30:14,697 --> 01:30:17,857
Speaker 2: the talent Peters was given, it really could have been

1881
01:30:17,897 --> 01:30:18,697
Speaker 2: a lot worse.

1882
01:30:18,857 --> 01:30:22,057
Speaker 3: I just worry with Scott Peters. He was another first

1883
01:30:22,058 --> 01:30:25,537
Speaker 3: time coach at running the room. I wonder if you

1884
01:30:25,577 --> 01:30:28,338
Speaker 3: can get somebody in there that's more experience, and maybe

1885
01:30:28,338 --> 01:30:28,777
Speaker 3: you bring.

1886
01:30:28,657 --> 01:30:32,577
Speaker 2: In a new assistant. But and I'd like to keep

1887
01:30:32,577 --> 01:30:35,737
Speaker 2: Mike Pellegrino. I just think he might go to Chapel Hill.

1888
01:30:35,777 --> 01:30:38,418
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just think he's a fantastic coach. I'd

1889
01:30:38,458 --> 01:30:41,298
Speaker 2: like to hold on him. And the other one's Jeremy Springer. Yeah,

1890
01:30:41,338 --> 01:30:42,977
Speaker 2: and I know he's a coordinator and that's a little

1891
01:30:42,978 --> 01:30:45,378
Speaker 2: trickier with a new head coach. But I thought Springer

1892
01:30:45,418 --> 01:30:47,577
Speaker 2: did great. If you're trying to reset the culture and

1893
01:30:47,897 --> 01:30:51,458
Speaker 2: reset the program, the answer Springer gave about the fans

1894
01:30:51,497 --> 01:30:55,097
Speaker 2: booing last Friday was fantastic. Was the best answer anybody

1895
01:30:55,098 --> 01:30:58,298
Speaker 2: in the organization gave on that question. He's another guy

1896
01:30:58,298 --> 01:31:00,017
Speaker 2: at the very least I would like to see get

1897
01:31:00,058 --> 01:31:02,418
Speaker 2: to and it sucks you have to interview for your

1898
01:31:02,418 --> 01:31:04,697
Speaker 2: own job, right right, But he's another guy that I

1899
01:31:04,697 --> 01:31:08,298
Speaker 2: would like to see at least get that opportunity. Yeah, absolutely,

1900
01:31:08,338 --> 01:31:09,937
Speaker 2: all right, the rest of them not so much. Those

1901
01:31:09,937 --> 01:31:11,737
Speaker 2: are those four guys are the four guys that look

1902
01:31:11,777 --> 01:31:13,777
Speaker 2: at and I'm like, and I guess if you want

1903
01:31:13,777 --> 01:31:16,017
Speaker 2: to throw T. C. McCartney in under Van Pelt's umbrella,

1904
01:31:16,058 --> 01:31:17,857
Speaker 2: but like you can keep those guys in the building,

1905
01:31:17,857 --> 01:31:19,097
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

1906
01:31:19,218 --> 01:31:22,817
Speaker 3: So I definitely agree that Alex van Pelt deserves a

1907
01:31:22,897 --> 01:31:27,177
Speaker 3: sit down with Mike Rabel and just to hear him out.

1908
01:31:27,218 --> 01:31:30,617
Speaker 3: And maybe you know, you do poach somebody like a

1909
01:31:30,657 --> 01:31:32,737
Speaker 3: Tommy Reese or someone like that, or someone from the

1910
01:31:32,737 --> 01:31:39,977
Speaker 3: college ranks to then go ahead and you know, innovate, update,

1911
01:31:40,058 --> 01:31:42,817
Speaker 3: help with play design like that sort of thing to

1912
01:31:42,937 --> 01:31:46,057
Speaker 3: make this thing more you know, a whole in terms

1913
01:31:46,098 --> 01:31:48,458
Speaker 3: of just not being just a quarterback coach but being

1914
01:31:48,497 --> 01:31:53,458
Speaker 3: an OC. And I also you mentioned Wes Welker. You know,

1915
01:31:53,617 --> 01:31:55,097
Speaker 3: is there a chance and I don't think he will

1916
01:31:55,098 --> 01:31:58,298
Speaker 3: because he won a playoff game to playoff games, but

1917
01:31:58,458 --> 01:32:01,697
Speaker 3: like if Ryan Day doesn't make it for whatever reason

1918
01:32:01,697 --> 01:32:05,258
Speaker 3: in Ohio State, does Brian Hartline become available.

1919
01:32:05,178 --> 01:32:08,178
Speaker 2: Can you prye Brian Hartline away when Ryan Day makes

1920
01:32:08,178 --> 01:32:10,418
Speaker 2: it or not? Passing game coordinator me I talked about

1921
01:32:10,418 --> 01:32:14,097
Speaker 2: having that pipeline if you sell Brian Hartline on, hey,

1922
01:32:14,138 --> 01:32:17,097
Speaker 2: come here coach receivers, and so Brian Hertline is Ohio

1923
01:32:17,138 --> 01:32:20,018
Speaker 2: State's wide receivers coach, which obviously is a factory of

1924
01:32:20,058 --> 01:32:23,017
Speaker 2: wide receivers. It's mind blowing. This guy has not gotten

1925
01:32:23,058 --> 01:32:27,378
Speaker 2: a better jobob his good got to be getting paid

1926
01:32:27,378 --> 01:32:30,338
Speaker 2: a ton by that too. But like the pitch to

1927
01:32:30,697 --> 01:32:34,017
Speaker 2: heartline for me would be come here coach or wide receivers,

1928
01:32:34,418 --> 01:32:36,258
Speaker 2: and you know we're gonna bring in Josh mccownon, We're

1929
01:32:36,258 --> 01:32:38,137
Speaker 2: gonna bring in Tommy Reese, We're gonna bring in whoever

1930
01:32:38,218 --> 01:32:41,577
Speaker 2: is the offensive coordinator. We are going to prepare you.

1931
01:32:41,577 --> 01:32:44,578
Speaker 2: You are going to be the next guy in that pipeline.

1932
01:32:44,577 --> 01:32:46,338
Speaker 2: And that gets back to the program building in the

1933
01:32:46,338 --> 01:32:50,177
Speaker 2: pipeline of it all. That would be a fantastic opportunity. Again,

1934
01:32:50,218 --> 01:32:53,178
Speaker 2: you have the the former player thing, Keenan McCardell, Sean

1935
01:32:53,258 --> 01:32:57,338
Speaker 2: Jefferson who they've talked to in the past, McCardell all

1936
01:32:57,418 --> 01:33:01,938
Speaker 2: is probably more a Brian Flores guy bringing him Sean Jefferson.

1937
01:33:02,617 --> 01:33:04,258
Speaker 2: They're probably gonna blow up in New York, right, I

1938
01:33:04,258 --> 01:33:10,578
Speaker 2: would think offensively. Yeah, ye, so probably like Sean Jefferson

1939
01:33:10,897 --> 01:33:15,537
Speaker 2: should either whether it's it's Ben Johnson or or Mike Vrabel. Frankly,

1940
01:33:15,617 --> 01:33:18,338
Speaker 2: Seawan was Sean Jeffers, It was Jefferson McCardell. I get

1941
01:33:18,378 --> 01:33:20,097
Speaker 2: it mixed up because interviewing him at the same time. Yeah,

1942
01:33:20,138 --> 01:33:23,177
Speaker 2: that was the Obrien here right, who was the one

1943
01:33:24,018 --> 01:33:26,737
Speaker 2: who Calvin Johnson said was the best coach he's ever had.

1944
01:33:27,378 --> 01:33:29,657
Speaker 3: I would assume that that was Sean Jefferson. Okay, So

1945
01:33:29,817 --> 01:33:31,418
Speaker 3: is McCardell was in Minnesota.

1946
01:33:31,497 --> 01:33:34,418
Speaker 2: Okay, So if he's good enough for Calvin Johnson should

1947
01:33:34,418 --> 01:33:36,298
Speaker 2: be good enough for you. I'd like that.

1948
01:33:37,218 --> 01:33:38,937
Speaker 3: That's a big time chicken or the egg. I think

1949
01:33:38,978 --> 01:33:41,218
Speaker 3: Calvin Johnson was gonna be good no matter what.

1950
01:33:41,497 --> 01:33:43,097
Speaker 2: No, he no, no, no, it's not. I'm not saying

1951
01:33:43,098 --> 01:33:47,418
Speaker 2: he made Calvin Johnsonvin Johns. If that guy saw something

1952
01:33:47,458 --> 01:33:50,338
Speaker 2: in this coach, doesn't that mean there's probably something there

1953
01:33:50,378 --> 01:33:54,697
Speaker 2: to see? Yes, right, that's more so much. I'm not

1954
01:33:54,737 --> 01:33:57,857
Speaker 2: saying Sewn Jefferson's gonna turn all your receivers into Calvin Johnson.

1955
01:33:57,937 --> 01:33:59,378
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, nice, it'd be fun.

1956
01:33:59,537 --> 01:34:02,458
Speaker 3: There's so many emails that I'm trying to get the

1957
01:34:02,697 --> 01:34:03,298
Speaker 3: read through.

1958
01:34:03,338 --> 01:34:05,378
Speaker 2: Some of them we got calls to. I know, there's

1959
01:34:05,418 --> 01:34:06,297
Speaker 2: so many emails.

1960
01:34:06,338 --> 01:34:10,497
Speaker 3: So, uh, there's some people reacting to our debate about

1961
01:34:10,817 --> 01:34:13,777
Speaker 3: Ben Johnson versus Mike Crable as you can imagine.

1962
01:34:13,577 --> 01:34:14,458
Speaker 2: One and the people's head.

1963
01:34:14,458 --> 01:34:18,338
Speaker 3: So Jonathan and PbD, because he wants to just be Switzerland,

1964
01:34:18,418 --> 01:34:21,258
Speaker 3: said we're both right, and uh, he said, I.

1965
01:34:21,258 --> 01:34:22,617
Speaker 2: Think that's kind of what I was going for.

1966
01:34:22,697 --> 01:34:24,897
Speaker 3: Yeah, we both kind of felt that way. So glad

1967
01:34:24,978 --> 01:34:25,617
Speaker 3: that that guy.

1968
01:34:25,737 --> 01:34:28,057
Speaker 2: I'm glad he understood the opening message. We would both

1969
01:34:28,098 --> 01:34:30,338
Speaker 2: take either guy. We would both be happy with either.

1970
01:34:30,937 --> 01:34:33,897
Speaker 3: So Jonathan kind of sums up my feelings on it.

1971
01:34:33,978 --> 01:34:35,937
Speaker 3: I don't know if you exactly feel the same way,

1972
01:34:36,298 --> 01:34:38,577
Speaker 3: but this is how Jonathan sums it up and sort

1973
01:34:38,577 --> 01:34:40,937
Speaker 3: of how what I was saying earlier. He says, I

1974
01:34:40,937 --> 01:34:44,177
Speaker 3: think you're both right. In just a discussion of floor

1975
01:34:44,298 --> 01:34:47,737
Speaker 3: versus ceiling. Ben Johnson is the low floor high ceiling play.

1976
01:34:47,897 --> 01:34:49,697
Speaker 3: He is the swing for the fences higher That could

1977
01:34:49,697 --> 01:34:52,737
Speaker 3: be the next Shanahan McVay YadA, YadA, yadda. Rabel is

1978
01:34:52,777 --> 01:34:55,097
Speaker 3: the safe play given that he has experienced, but there's

1979
01:34:55,138 --> 01:34:57,617
Speaker 3: the risk the floor becomes the ceiling. Similar, and I

1980
01:34:57,657 --> 01:35:00,497
Speaker 3: think this is a good comparison to Mike Tomlin with

1981
01:35:00,537 --> 01:35:05,418
Speaker 3: the Pittsburgh Steelers, where I would be so happy where

1982
01:35:05,497 --> 01:35:07,657
Speaker 3: you're never a blow five hundred team, but you're not

1983
01:35:07,657 --> 01:35:09,177
Speaker 3: also never a serious content.

1984
01:35:09,018 --> 01:35:13,258
Speaker 2: But they've won, They've won with Tomlin. To Bethsger, yes, well,

1985
01:35:14,298 --> 01:35:19,458
Speaker 2: Drake may should be relative to error at least Ben Roethlisberger,

1986
01:35:19,497 --> 01:35:21,137
Speaker 2: I would say so, right, Tomlin.

1987
01:35:21,178 --> 01:35:24,297
Speaker 3: The difference between Tomlin and with this situation with Rabel

1988
01:35:24,657 --> 01:35:26,977
Speaker 3: is Tomlin inherited a damn good tomin right.

1989
01:35:27,018 --> 01:35:28,657
Speaker 2: It's it's not exactly apples to apples.

1990
01:35:28,857 --> 01:35:32,018
Speaker 3: It would have been like and inherited the after twenty.

1991
01:35:31,617 --> 01:35:35,217
Speaker 2: Eighteen, right, So to me, the floor ceiling thing, yes,

1992
01:35:35,298 --> 01:35:39,297
Speaker 2: and I agree with that, but I add the addendum

1993
01:35:39,458 --> 01:35:43,298
Speaker 2: on of I'll let my roster set the ceiling, right,

1994
01:35:43,338 --> 01:35:46,217
Speaker 2: I just have the coach set the floor and establish

1995
01:35:46,298 --> 01:35:49,298
Speaker 2: a program that works. And then I think with a

1996
01:35:49,338 --> 01:35:52,378
Speaker 2: good roster, the ceiling you have with the great roster

1997
01:35:53,018 --> 01:35:56,138
Speaker 2: is higher than the ceiling you have with a great coach. So,

1998
01:35:56,857 --> 01:36:00,857
Speaker 2: and and that's why we're sitting here today. Yeah, but

1999
01:36:01,298 --> 01:36:04,697
Speaker 2: I well, I think a bad coach can drag down

2000
01:36:04,697 --> 01:36:07,418
Speaker 2: a good roster more than a bad roster can drag

2001
01:36:07,458 --> 01:36:09,657
Speaker 2: down a good coach, if that makes sense. This is

2002
01:36:09,657 --> 01:36:11,017
Speaker 2: why I didn't get to give this take. So I'll

2003
01:36:11,018 --> 01:36:13,418
Speaker 2: just kind of wedge it in here now. The head

2004
01:36:13,418 --> 01:36:15,378
Speaker 2: coach hiring is not the most important thing to me.

2005
01:36:15,697 --> 01:36:18,537
Speaker 2: It's very important, It's very important. It's not the most

2006
01:36:18,537 --> 01:36:20,857
Speaker 2: important thing to me. Who has final say, who's the

2007
01:36:20,857 --> 01:36:24,697
Speaker 2: de facto GM Mike Vrabel, is it somebody else? We

2008
01:36:24,817 --> 01:36:26,298
Speaker 2: touch on that a little bit. We touched in a

2009
01:36:26,298 --> 01:36:28,617
Speaker 2: little bit. But just like you're not going to fix

2010
01:36:28,657 --> 01:36:30,418
Speaker 2: this without him, you can give Rabel or Ben Jonson

2011
01:36:30,577 --> 01:36:32,178
Speaker 2: and a roster looks like this, it's not gonna go

2012
01:36:32,218 --> 01:36:34,537
Speaker 2: well for either one of them, even with your scheme

2013
01:36:34,577 --> 01:36:37,897
Speaker 2: whiteboard stuff. Hey, the am I wrong? You want to

2014
01:36:37,897 --> 01:36:39,737
Speaker 2: give Ben Johnson? This off is a long way from

2015
01:36:39,737 --> 01:36:40,378
Speaker 2: Penna school.

2016
01:36:40,418 --> 01:36:42,617
Speaker 3: But it's the thing that I like about Ben Johnson

2017
01:36:42,657 --> 01:36:44,497
Speaker 3: and why I'm so high on him as a as

2018
01:36:44,537 --> 01:36:49,338
Speaker 3: a coach, is that he'll come in here and yes,

2019
01:36:49,418 --> 01:36:52,777
Speaker 3: he built the Lions offense around that offensive line and rightfully.

2020
01:36:52,817 --> 01:36:55,697
Speaker 3: So that's why they drafted Jamiir Gibbs, That's why they

2021
01:36:55,777 --> 01:36:58,138
Speaker 3: drafted Penny Sewell, and they built it. Okay, so let

2022
01:36:58,178 --> 01:37:00,857
Speaker 3: me if he doesn't have the line, and he has

2023
01:37:00,937 --> 01:37:04,217
Speaker 3: great receivers or a great quarterback, I think he'll pivot.

2024
01:37:04,458 --> 01:37:07,777
Speaker 2: See, but these guys famously don't pivot. No. I Also,

2025
01:37:07,857 --> 01:37:09,537
Speaker 2: if they hire Ben Johnson, you don't get to complain

2026
01:37:09,537 --> 01:37:11,017
Speaker 2: if they draft a running back with the first round

2027
01:37:11,018 --> 01:37:12,537
Speaker 2: of a year or two. I'm gonna hold you to that.

2028
01:37:12,937 --> 01:37:15,378
Speaker 3: In a couple of years, we have to build the

2029
01:37:15,418 --> 01:37:18,017
Speaker 3: offensive line first. The reason why Jamiir Gibbs works in

2030
01:37:18,058 --> 01:37:19,378
Speaker 3: Detroit is a combiny.

2031
01:37:19,458 --> 01:37:21,777
Speaker 2: I'm not saying if they draft Ashton Genty this year,

2032
01:37:21,817 --> 01:37:25,097
Speaker 2: that's questionable even with Johnson, but drafted Ashton Gentry after

2033
01:37:25,138 --> 01:37:27,577
Speaker 2: that playoff game at all. He was better in that

2034
01:37:27,657 --> 01:37:29,657
Speaker 2: game than you. I told you all year that line

2035
01:37:29,737 --> 01:37:34,298
Speaker 2: sack after contact seven times. Here's my point on the

2036
01:37:34,298 --> 01:37:37,857
Speaker 2: head of personnel. Yeah, here's my point. Yeah, Drake May

2037
01:37:38,817 --> 01:37:41,937
Speaker 2: definitely franchise quarterback. All of that, we're not watching Drake

2038
01:37:41,937 --> 01:37:43,697
Speaker 2: May once a week for the next four months. Drake

2039
01:37:43,737 --> 01:37:46,857
Speaker 2: May is gonna be in North Carolina working with quarterbacks, coach,

2040
01:37:47,178 --> 01:37:50,017
Speaker 2: out of side, out of mind. Whoever, and even if

2041
01:37:50,018 --> 01:37:54,017
Speaker 2: it's the coach, right, Ben Johnson is not making the

2042
01:37:54,058 --> 01:37:57,577
Speaker 2: picks at the draft. Mike Rabel will see whoever gets

2043
01:37:57,657 --> 01:38:01,458
Speaker 2: that final say that person becomes the face of the

2044
01:38:01,497 --> 01:38:04,497
Speaker 2: franchise for the next four months. This whole thing. Drake

2045
01:38:04,577 --> 01:38:07,817
Speaker 2: may the new head coach, all of it. It's gonna

2046
01:38:07,857 --> 01:38:11,178
Speaker 2: sink or swim based on who's making the personnel decisions.

2047
01:38:11,978 --> 01:38:15,537
Speaker 3: I agree, I if I again, if it's Ben Johnson,

2048
01:38:15,617 --> 01:38:17,298
Speaker 3: you have to hire a legitimate and j.

2049
01:38:17,418 --> 01:38:19,617
Speaker 2: And I like I wanted Ray Agnew last year he

2050
01:38:19,657 --> 01:38:22,617
Speaker 2: was talking about, Say I love Ray Agnew. I'd like

2051
01:38:22,657 --> 01:38:24,737
Speaker 2: Ray Agnew. Even if it's Mike Rabel, I would.

2052
01:38:24,617 --> 01:38:27,058
Speaker 3: Hire Ray Agnew as the personnel guy. I think you

2053
01:38:27,098 --> 01:38:28,617
Speaker 3: actually need to hire two people at that.

2054
01:38:28,537 --> 01:38:30,057
Speaker 2: Point, because you need a Chris Pielman too.

2055
01:38:30,098 --> 01:38:33,657
Speaker 3: I think you somebody above Ray Agnew and above Ben Johnson.

2056
01:38:34,058 --> 01:38:37,178
Speaker 2: Isn't that what Chris Pielman is in Detroit? Yes, yes,

2057
01:38:37,258 --> 01:38:39,258
Speaker 2: I think so. I'm not exactly sure. He's like sort

2058
01:38:39,298 --> 01:38:42,458
Speaker 2: of senior football there. He's the football overlord. Yes, I'm

2059
01:38:42,537 --> 01:38:44,937
Speaker 2: the president of football. We talked about this last offseason.

2060
01:38:45,018 --> 01:38:47,937
Speaker 3: It never happened, And I want to resurface this take

2061
01:38:47,978 --> 01:38:49,617
Speaker 3: because I think that this take is good to take

2062
01:38:49,657 --> 01:38:51,337
Speaker 3: valid especially if it's Ben Johnson.

2063
01:38:51,497 --> 01:38:53,138
Speaker 2: It's very well. I'm not as worried about it. I

2064
01:38:53,138 --> 01:38:54,537
Speaker 2: think he can be because we want to be able

2065
01:38:54,577 --> 01:38:56,977
Speaker 2: to be this guy. Chris Bielman is a special assistant

2066
01:38:57,018 --> 01:38:59,577
Speaker 2: to the owner in the CEO of the Detroit Lions.

2067
01:38:59,617 --> 01:39:00,017
Speaker 2: There you go.

2068
01:39:00,138 --> 01:39:05,298
Speaker 3: So they need a football guy to be in a

2069
01:39:05,458 --> 01:39:07,777
Speaker 3: president of football operations chair.

2070
01:39:07,897 --> 01:39:09,298
Speaker 2: They need and maybe it's not a great day to

2071
01:39:09,298 --> 01:39:10,937
Speaker 2: bring this example up. They need a Cam Neely.

2072
01:39:11,418 --> 01:39:14,418
Speaker 3: Yes, and now it's the only example that's really relevant

2073
01:39:14,458 --> 01:39:17,537
Speaker 3: to Boston because what they don't need is a Sam Kennedy.

2074
01:39:17,817 --> 01:39:21,178
Speaker 2: They need a football guy to be helping with the football, right.

2075
01:39:21,258 --> 01:39:23,897
Speaker 3: They don't need Sam Kennedy, no offense, Boston Red Sox.

2076
01:39:24,098 --> 01:39:26,937
Speaker 3: They need Cam Neely and they need a guy that

2077
01:39:27,098 --> 01:39:27,777
Speaker 3: is going to do it.

2078
01:39:27,857 --> 01:39:30,458
Speaker 2: Let's use Chris Fieldman. That's probably better. M yeah, probably,

2079
01:39:30,937 --> 01:39:32,857
Speaker 2: But to the Bruins credit. And I know it's a

2080
01:39:32,857 --> 01:39:34,697
Speaker 2: different league. It worked for a long time. It's different

2081
01:39:34,737 --> 01:39:36,418
Speaker 2: league and all that kind of stuff. It worked for

2082
01:39:36,418 --> 01:39:37,017
Speaker 2: a long time.

2083
01:39:37,058 --> 01:39:39,817
Speaker 3: They're always in the playoffs, like They're always a relevant team,

2084
01:39:40,178 --> 01:39:41,897
Speaker 3: and that's what we want the Patriots to be to

2085
01:39:41,937 --> 01:39:43,777
Speaker 3: an extent, we obviously want the ceiling to be higher

2086
01:39:43,777 --> 01:39:44,458
Speaker 3: for the Patriots.

2087
01:39:44,458 --> 01:39:47,217
Speaker 2: But whatever, All right, let's get back to the emails.

2088
01:39:47,617 --> 01:39:50,857
Speaker 3: Jeffrey is in Canada and he's pushing back on me

2089
01:39:50,937 --> 01:39:52,017
Speaker 3: now because these.

2090
01:39:51,857 --> 01:39:52,577
Speaker 2: Are your people.

2091
01:39:53,537 --> 01:39:55,937
Speaker 3: Here are people, Evan, I have to push back if

2092
01:39:55,978 --> 01:39:58,097
Speaker 3: I give you Gary kubi Act. In the last ten

2093
01:39:58,138 --> 01:40:01,857
Speaker 3: Super Bowls, only two have been type pants guys that

2094
01:40:01,897 --> 01:40:04,298
Speaker 3: have won the Super Bowl. The type pants guys that

2095
01:40:04,338 --> 01:40:06,497
Speaker 3: have have lost five Super Bowls.

2096
01:40:06,577 --> 01:40:08,977
Speaker 2: So my response is large part two to Kyle Shanahan.

2097
01:40:09,138 --> 01:40:09,617
Speaker 2: So in my.

2098
01:40:09,617 --> 01:40:13,897
Speaker 3: Response to this is okay, Well, in the last ten years,

2099
01:40:14,537 --> 01:40:17,298
Speaker 3: two of them were Bill Belichick, three of them were

2100
01:40:17,338 --> 01:40:20,817
Speaker 3: Andy Reid. So there goes half of the of the pool, right,

2101
01:40:21,258 --> 01:40:25,258
Speaker 3: and then the other guys that have woned. Doug Peterson,

2102
01:40:25,298 --> 01:40:27,657
Speaker 3: I don't know what is he. He's in the middle.

2103
01:40:27,737 --> 01:40:30,817
Speaker 2: Probably, Well, let me ask you this, because can't throw

2104
01:40:30,817 --> 01:40:33,577
Speaker 2: them out, Tyler. And I'm not saying he's close Bill Belichick,

2105
01:40:33,617 --> 01:40:36,737
Speaker 2: Andy Reid, Doug Peterson. Yeah, who is closer to that?

2106
01:40:36,817 --> 01:40:40,378
Speaker 2: Mold Ben Johnson or Mike Rabel. Well, Doug Peterson and

2107
01:40:40,378 --> 01:40:43,258
Speaker 2: Andy Reid both call offenses. Who is closer to the

2108
01:40:43,298 --> 01:40:44,617
Speaker 2: mold as they exist right now?

2109
01:40:44,777 --> 01:40:47,777
Speaker 3: I guess probably my fraible there you go, But I

2110
01:40:47,777 --> 01:40:50,777
Speaker 3: would My rebuttal to this is that if you told

2111
01:40:50,817 --> 01:40:53,697
Speaker 3: me that the Patriots were in overtime of the Super

2112
01:40:53,697 --> 01:40:55,857
Speaker 3: Bowl with Ben Johnson, I'm taking it.

2113
01:40:55,897 --> 01:40:58,977
Speaker 2: So I will actually give you a fair rebuttal of this. Yeah,

2114
01:40:59,418 --> 01:41:03,178
Speaker 2: you hope. And this goes to the personnel thing. How

2115
01:41:03,178 --> 01:41:04,977
Speaker 2: often do I get on Kyle Shanahan because he just

2116
01:41:05,058 --> 01:41:06,897
Speaker 2: keeps picking bad quarterbacks and.

2117
01:41:06,857 --> 01:41:08,657
Speaker 3: Putting him in position? Well, that's what he says. He said,

2118
01:41:08,697 --> 01:41:10,737
Speaker 3: I think it's gone got way more to do with

2119
01:41:10,817 --> 01:41:14,458
Speaker 3: you who your quarterback is. And uh then slim versus

2120
01:41:14,497 --> 01:41:15,737
Speaker 3: relaxed fit, which is funny.

2121
01:41:15,777 --> 01:41:18,178
Speaker 2: I'll give him that though. So did you purposely wear

2122
01:41:18,218 --> 01:41:22,577
Speaker 2: like tight Kaki pants? I always wear these pants, of course, easy. Yeah,

2123
01:41:22,737 --> 01:41:25,178
Speaker 2: Drake May is obviously a far cry from Jimmy Garoppolo

2124
01:41:25,298 --> 01:41:28,258
Speaker 2: and Brock Party. Yep. So you hope that. And I've

2125
01:41:28,258 --> 01:41:30,298
Speaker 2: always said if Shanahan had a real quarterback, he probably

2126
01:41:30,338 --> 01:41:33,418
Speaker 2: have three or four. But whose fault is it that

2127
01:41:33,497 --> 01:41:35,697
Speaker 2: he doesn't have to know about doing that? You know

2128
01:41:35,777 --> 01:41:38,897
Speaker 2: it's his fault. It's his fault. He said no to

2129
01:41:38,937 --> 01:41:42,338
Speaker 2: Tom Brady, he said his fault. It's his fault.

2130
01:41:42,777 --> 01:41:45,418
Speaker 3: But with that being said, you don't have to worry

2131
01:41:45,458 --> 01:41:47,378
Speaker 3: if Sean McVay is one of the tight pants guys

2132
01:41:47,657 --> 01:41:48,177
Speaker 3: super Bowl.

2133
01:41:48,178 --> 01:41:49,737
Speaker 2: I think Sean McVay is the exception of the rule

2134
01:41:49,817 --> 01:41:50,218
Speaker 2: super Bowl.

2135
01:41:50,338 --> 01:41:53,138
Speaker 3: Kyle Shanahan has been to two of them. Like, if

2136
01:41:53,138 --> 01:41:54,857
Speaker 3: you told me that that's where the Patriots are going

2137
01:41:54,897 --> 01:41:56,577
Speaker 3: to be, I'm taking.

2138
01:41:56,338 --> 01:41:59,097
Speaker 2: It'd be great. And I'm not saying Ben Johnson would

2139
01:41:59,098 --> 01:42:01,497
Speaker 2: be a bad hire. I'll be. I'll be want to

2140
01:42:01,537 --> 01:42:03,977
Speaker 2: cover super Bowl? You don't want to cover. You want

2141
01:42:03,978 --> 01:42:06,097
Speaker 2: to have fun watching film on Monday. You said this year,

2142
01:42:06,258 --> 01:42:09,057
Speaker 2: why can it be both? Because well, one should take

2143
01:42:09,098 --> 01:42:11,378
Speaker 2: priority over the other. Why can't I have both? You

2144
01:42:11,378 --> 01:42:13,497
Speaker 2: can't have both, but one should take priority. All I

2145
01:42:13,497 --> 01:42:15,298
Speaker 2: want to get there one way and you want to

2146
01:42:15,298 --> 01:42:17,097
Speaker 2: get there another way. No, I want to get there anyway.

2147
01:42:17,178 --> 01:42:19,497
Speaker 2: I just want to get there. I want to get there.

2148
01:42:19,537 --> 01:42:21,258
Speaker 2: We're in there once and I think that's going to

2149
01:42:21,298 --> 01:42:25,378
Speaker 2: be the peak of our careers. Okay, so today's up

2150
01:42:25,378 --> 01:42:26,657
Speaker 2: there on the peak. This is a fun show.

2151
01:42:27,098 --> 01:42:31,737
Speaker 3: So there's a there's also a Okay, here's another one

2152
01:42:31,737 --> 01:42:34,177
Speaker 3: on your side of the stream, Evan, You're worried about

2153
01:42:34,258 --> 01:42:37,378
Speaker 3: Rabel ruining Drake May while simultaneously saying he made Ryan

2154
01:42:37,418 --> 01:42:39,017
Speaker 3: Tannehill into an MVP candidate.

2155
01:42:39,098 --> 01:42:42,537
Speaker 2: Correct, So which one is it? Right? I hear you.

2156
01:42:42,657 --> 01:42:43,977
Speaker 2: That's a good question point.

2157
01:42:44,138 --> 01:42:46,657
Speaker 3: I think the difference is though for me with that

2158
01:42:46,857 --> 01:42:50,017
Speaker 3: argument is that Ryan Tannehill was at a much different

2159
01:42:50,018 --> 01:42:52,418
Speaker 3: stage of his career than Drake. So Drake May is

2160
01:42:52,418 --> 01:42:55,977
Speaker 3: going into his second season, he's still of developmental project stage.

2161
01:42:56,098 --> 01:42:58,338
Speaker 3: He's still got a long ways to go. I love

2162
01:42:58,378 --> 01:43:01,338
Speaker 3: the talent, I love Drake May, but let's face it,

2163
01:43:01,378 --> 01:43:02,378
Speaker 3: he's got a long way to go.

2164
01:43:02,497 --> 01:43:05,258
Speaker 2: He does, but he's not. So I'd say two things. One,

2165
01:43:05,657 --> 01:43:07,298
Speaker 2: as much as you can ruin him scammatically, you can

2166
01:43:07,338 --> 01:43:09,777
Speaker 2: also run him with a bad culture. You can absolutely

2167
01:43:09,817 --> 01:43:11,897
Speaker 2: ruin him with a bad program. Even if he's talented.

2168
01:43:12,218 --> 01:43:15,857
Speaker 2: We've seen that two. Drake May's in his developmental stage.

2169
01:43:15,857 --> 01:43:18,977
Speaker 2: He's not going to be there forever. You don't need

2170
01:43:19,058 --> 01:43:22,057
Speaker 2: to worry about Mike Rabel consistently finding an offensive coordinator

2171
01:43:22,058 --> 01:43:24,378
Speaker 2: every other year for the next ten or fifteen years.

2172
01:43:24,537 --> 01:43:27,338
Speaker 2: You really just got to get one or two after that. Again,

2173
01:43:27,378 --> 01:43:29,657
Speaker 2: I go back to that concept of the program. If

2174
01:43:29,697 --> 01:43:33,617
Speaker 2: you can find two guys, the program becomes self powering,

2175
01:43:33,857 --> 01:43:37,257
Speaker 2: it becomes self generating. And Drake Mays also just developed

2176
01:43:37,298 --> 01:43:39,857
Speaker 2: at this point, and you can if you miss one,

2177
01:43:40,378 --> 01:43:43,537
Speaker 2: you can survive. As again, you know I'm serious if

2178
01:43:43,537 --> 01:43:46,138
Speaker 2: I am using the bills as a complimentary example as

2179
01:43:46,298 --> 01:43:47,458
Speaker 2: they did with Josh Allen.

2180
01:43:47,897 --> 01:43:50,178
Speaker 3: Fair enough, all right, So a couple more emails and

2181
01:43:50,178 --> 01:43:52,098
Speaker 3: then we'll get back to the phones before we wrap up,

2182
01:43:52,138 --> 01:43:56,017
Speaker 3: I promise. So Destiny says that she he or she,

2183
01:43:56,098 --> 01:43:59,338
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I don't know. They love the show and

2184
01:43:59,978 --> 01:44:02,458
Speaker 3: mainly for the ball knowledge and the draft takes. Yep,

2185
01:44:02,537 --> 01:44:05,418
Speaker 3: that's that is definitely what we do, Destiny, and that's

2186
01:44:05,458 --> 01:44:08,378
Speaker 3: why they like the off season shows the best.

2187
01:44:08,458 --> 01:44:10,497
Speaker 2: I like the officer. It isn't I've always said this

2188
01:44:10,537 --> 01:44:11,418
Speaker 2: is an off season show.

2189
01:44:11,537 --> 01:44:14,497
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we this is our wheelhouse. So this is

2190
01:44:14,537 --> 01:44:18,777
Speaker 3: another question about offensive coordinator. And you know what who

2191
01:44:18,897 --> 01:44:22,137
Speaker 3: Mike Rabel's offensive coordinator would be. And we've we've talked

2192
01:44:22,138 --> 01:44:24,218
Speaker 3: about the names, but I just want to say, like

2193
01:44:24,258 --> 01:44:27,617
Speaker 3: on the record, I would be absolutely shocked if it's

2194
01:44:27,617 --> 01:44:30,697
Speaker 3: not Josh McDaniels. And this is just my opinion, just

2195
01:44:30,737 --> 01:44:34,217
Speaker 3: to just my opinion, my hunch. I would be absolutely

2196
01:44:34,258 --> 01:44:37,057
Speaker 3: shocked if it wasn't Josh McDaniels. And the main reason

2197
01:44:37,098 --> 01:44:40,857
Speaker 3: why I'd be absolutely shocked is that it's very, very

2198
01:44:40,897 --> 01:44:44,497
Speaker 3: crystal clear to me that Robert Kraft wants to be comfortable.

2199
01:44:44,657 --> 01:44:46,537
Speaker 3: He wants to hire guys he knows, he wants to

2200
01:44:46,537 --> 01:44:49,338
Speaker 3: be around people he knows. Mike Frable is the guy

2201
01:44:49,378 --> 01:44:51,697
Speaker 3: that he knows. My guess is that he's going to

2202
01:44:51,777 --> 01:44:54,937
Speaker 3: real hard for Josh McDaniels to be the offensive coordinator.

2203
01:44:55,178 --> 01:44:58,138
Speaker 3: So if it's not gonna be McDaniels, who at one

2204
01:44:58,178 --> 01:45:00,697
Speaker 3: point in time they thought might be the successor to

2205
01:45:00,737 --> 01:45:03,777
Speaker 3: Bill Belichick, So now you have Mike Rabel, who rocks

2206
01:45:03,817 --> 01:45:06,298
Speaker 3: and they love. You have Josh McDaniels, who they love,

2207
01:45:06,817 --> 01:45:09,338
Speaker 3: that's got the crafts feel nice, right, They feel like

2208
01:45:09,378 --> 01:45:12,057
Speaker 3: they've got two guys that can really get behind. If

2209
01:45:12,058 --> 01:45:14,058
Speaker 3: it's not Josh McDaniels, it's gonna have to be a

2210
01:45:14,098 --> 01:45:17,577
Speaker 3: really compelling pitch to Mike by Mike Vrabel as to

2211
01:45:17,617 --> 01:45:20,857
Speaker 3: why Tommy Reese is a better choice, Pep Hamilton's a

2212
01:45:20,857 --> 01:45:22,218
Speaker 3: better choice or whoever else.

2213
01:45:22,258 --> 01:45:24,298
Speaker 2: It ends up being Yeah, no, he's gonna have to

2214
01:45:24,418 --> 01:45:25,857
Speaker 2: ask why you do the interview. That's why you do

2215
01:45:25,857 --> 01:45:27,697
Speaker 2: the process. This is what they didn't do last year.

2216
01:45:28,617 --> 01:45:31,338
Speaker 3: So here's a question from Brian. Are along the same

2217
01:45:31,378 --> 01:45:33,178
Speaker 3: lines of offensive coordinator? And I think this is a

2218
01:45:33,178 --> 01:45:36,218
Speaker 3: really important point as we turn the page, and I

2219
01:45:36,218 --> 01:45:39,297
Speaker 3: say this tongue in cheek. But tomorrow, after Abel interviews

2220
01:45:39,298 --> 01:45:41,138
Speaker 3: in Friday morning, when chefter breaks that he's the next

2221
01:45:41,138 --> 01:45:43,817
Speaker 3: head coach of the Patriots, we are gonna start talking

2222
01:45:43,817 --> 01:45:48,378
Speaker 3: about coordinators, right, that's gonna be the conversation. He brings

2223
01:45:48,458 --> 01:45:51,737
Speaker 3: up Mike Laflor So that's Matt's brother, who is right

2224
01:45:51,777 --> 01:45:54,817
Speaker 3: now is the offensive coordinator for the Los Angeles Rams.

2225
01:45:54,978 --> 01:45:55,657
Speaker 2: Don't hate that.

2226
01:45:55,777 --> 01:45:59,977
Speaker 3: So the problem is there's a problem. The problem is

2227
01:46:00,098 --> 01:46:02,697
Speaker 3: that in the NFL, in order to make a lateral

2228
01:46:02,777 --> 01:46:05,698
Speaker 3: move when you're under contract, you need to get permission

2229
01:46:05,737 --> 01:46:08,138
Speaker 3: from the team that you're currently employed by to make

2230
01:46:08,218 --> 01:46:10,617
Speaker 3: that move. So it's not looked at as a promotion

2231
01:46:11,218 --> 01:46:12,977
Speaker 3: in the eyes of the league, even if you aren't

2232
01:46:12,978 --> 01:46:13,657
Speaker 3: calling plays.

2233
01:46:13,737 --> 01:46:18,137
Speaker 2: So what if they were to offer him like pass

2234
01:46:18,138 --> 01:46:21,178
Speaker 2: game coordinator. As far as I'm I know, well, he's

2235
01:46:21,178 --> 01:46:23,537
Speaker 2: already the offensive coordinators. That would be a devotion. Oh,

2236
01:46:23,577 --> 01:46:25,937
Speaker 2: you're right, you're right, right, even if they offered him

2237
01:46:26,458 --> 01:46:29,977
Speaker 2: an associate head coach title. Yeah, it's still a lateral

2238
01:46:30,018 --> 01:46:31,458
Speaker 2: move in the eye as the NFL. You're either an

2239
01:46:31,458 --> 01:46:35,178
Speaker 2: assistant coach slash coordinator or your head That's probably good.

2240
01:46:35,218 --> 01:46:36,697
Speaker 2: It's a good way to stop people from gaming the

2241
01:46:36,737 --> 01:46:38,577
Speaker 2: system so that it doesn't help the Patriots here, But

2242
01:46:38,577 --> 01:46:39,017
Speaker 2: it's right.

2243
01:46:39,298 --> 01:46:41,577
Speaker 3: The issue that I have with the rule, and I

2244
01:46:41,617 --> 01:46:44,138
Speaker 3: brought this up yesterday on PU The issue that I

2245
01:46:44,178 --> 01:46:46,458
Speaker 3: have with the rule is that there is a major

2246
01:46:46,537 --> 01:46:49,857
Speaker 3: difference in your developmental track as a coach between being

2247
01:46:49,857 --> 01:46:52,458
Speaker 3: a play caller and not being a play caller. So

2248
01:46:52,817 --> 01:46:55,218
Speaker 3: Michael Floor does not call play Sean McVay calls the

2249
01:46:55,258 --> 01:46:56,418
Speaker 3: plays and with the ramps.

2250
01:46:56,857 --> 01:46:59,657
Speaker 2: In my opinion, Mike Lafloor should be able to take

2251
01:46:59,697 --> 01:47:03,218
Speaker 2: a play caller role that should be considered in the

2252
01:47:03,218 --> 01:47:05,617
Speaker 2: eyes of the league, that should be considered a promotion.

2253
01:47:05,897 --> 01:47:09,537
Speaker 2: Is there any reporting as to whether or not McVeigh

2254
01:47:09,537 --> 01:47:12,777
Speaker 2: would let him go for that opportunity. There isn't because

2255
01:47:12,777 --> 01:47:14,298
Speaker 2: at a certain point, like he's got to go to

2256
01:47:14,338 --> 01:47:16,537
Speaker 2: McVeigh and be like, hey, this is a better opportunity

2257
01:47:16,537 --> 01:47:19,537
Speaker 2: for me. You gotta let me because nobody's gonna hire

2258
01:47:19,577 --> 01:47:21,497
Speaker 2: him as a head coach without that play calling experience

2259
01:47:21,617 --> 01:47:23,577
Speaker 2: or not for a while. So if he wants to

2260
01:47:23,577 --> 01:47:25,617
Speaker 2: be a head coach, he needs to get out of there.

2261
01:47:26,058 --> 01:47:28,178
Speaker 2: Like does he go to McVeigh and put pressure on McVeigh, like, hey,

2262
01:47:28,178 --> 01:47:31,538
Speaker 2: you need to let me get this opportunity. It's possible,

2263
01:47:31,817 --> 01:47:35,537
Speaker 2: but from what I understand about the process, it's tricky

2264
01:47:35,577 --> 01:47:37,657
Speaker 2: because he's under contract, which means he needs to buy

2265
01:47:37,697 --> 01:47:41,098
Speaker 2: out his contract. That it just there's a lot of

2266
01:47:41,178 --> 01:47:44,057
Speaker 2: layers that present, in a lot of roadblocks that present

2267
01:47:44,258 --> 01:47:47,857
Speaker 2: to prevent lateral movement in the NFL. If he wasn't

2268
01:47:47,897 --> 01:47:50,458
Speaker 2: under contract, if his contract has expired and he's a

2269
01:47:50,617 --> 01:47:53,937
Speaker 2: true coaching free agent, for example, like Patrick Graham with

2270
01:47:54,018 --> 01:47:57,178
Speaker 2: the Vegas Raiders, then that's different. Like Patrick Graham can

2271
01:47:57,218 --> 01:48:00,418
Speaker 2: go and be a defensive coordinator someplace else. That's not

2272
01:48:00,497 --> 01:48:03,018
Speaker 2: the case if you're currently employed, like my guy is

2273
01:48:03,058 --> 01:48:06,458
Speaker 2: Stenovich with the Green Bay Packers. He is an offensive coordinator.

2274
01:48:06,777 --> 01:48:09,217
Speaker 2: He's already got the title. He's not the play caller.

2275
01:48:09,378 --> 01:48:11,218
Speaker 2: There's nothing he can do. I think one of these

2276
01:48:11,218 --> 01:48:12,697
Speaker 2: guys would put the pressure on to try to get

2277
01:48:12,697 --> 01:48:14,977
Speaker 2: to better opportunity. Yeah, there's a million of them. Frank

2278
01:48:15,018 --> 01:48:17,697
Speaker 2: Smith in Miami is another one that is a hot

2279
01:48:18,018 --> 01:48:20,138
Speaker 2: head coaching name we go. You're making my argument for

2280
01:48:20,178 --> 01:48:20,777
Speaker 2: me about vraybe.

2281
01:48:20,978 --> 01:48:24,097
Speaker 3: Frank Smith, though already is the offensive coordinator by title

2282
01:48:24,138 --> 01:48:26,777
Speaker 3: with the Miami Dolphins, so he cannot make a lateral

2283
01:48:26,857 --> 01:48:29,337
Speaker 3: move even though Mike McDaniel runs the offense and calls.

2284
01:48:29,178 --> 01:48:32,057
Speaker 2: The plays too bad, Dolphins and fire Mike McDaniel. There

2285
01:48:32,098 --> 01:48:36,458
Speaker 2: you go. Uh. Mike Kafka with the New York Giants, Yeah,

2286
01:48:36,497 --> 01:48:38,098
Speaker 2: they were really tied to him at one point a

2287
01:48:38,098 --> 01:48:39,897
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. Weren't they last year with the

2288
01:48:40,378 --> 01:48:44,338
Speaker 2: search potentially, But Mike Kafka got a promotion on Dables

2289
01:48:44,378 --> 01:48:46,458
Speaker 2: staff to give him the title. And part of that

2290
01:48:46,617 --> 01:48:48,657
Speaker 2: is just to make sure that the only jump he's

2291
01:48:48,657 --> 01:48:51,097
Speaker 2: going to make is the head coach. So that's that's

2292
01:48:51,098 --> 01:48:53,097
Speaker 2: where it gets tricky with a lot of those types

2293
01:48:53,138 --> 01:48:56,497
Speaker 2: of guys. All right, a couple of emails here about

2294
01:48:56,497 --> 01:49:00,057
Speaker 2: the just the process, and I understand you know this

2295
01:49:00,138 --> 01:49:04,577
Speaker 2: is from Brandon. Uh, he is concerned that they're not

2296
01:49:04,697 --> 01:49:06,418
Speaker 2: doing a thorough search and he said, for all the

2297
01:49:06,418 --> 01:49:08,458
Speaker 2: talk from Mark ak about how they would do with

2298
01:49:08,497 --> 01:49:10,537
Speaker 2: thorough search and whatever it takes to get back to

2299
01:49:10,577 --> 01:49:14,338
Speaker 2: being good, I agree with Albert Breer's comments from last

2300
01:49:14,418 --> 01:49:18,777
Speaker 2: night that it's looking like a sham sham strong. Albert

2301
01:49:18,817 --> 01:49:20,857
Speaker 2: Breer has been hard on them though for the Pep

2302
01:49:20,897 --> 01:49:24,697
Speaker 2: Hamilton and Byron Leftwich interviews to check off the rule,

2303
01:49:25,018 --> 01:49:28,218
Speaker 2: and I I understand where he's coming from. My pushback

2304
01:49:28,258 --> 01:49:34,338
Speaker 2: with the the thorough search is one, it's a private business,

2305
01:49:34,537 --> 01:49:36,458
Speaker 2: so at the end of the day, it's their business,

2306
01:49:36,497 --> 01:49:39,097
Speaker 2: it's their football team. Whoever they think is the best

2307
01:49:39,098 --> 01:49:42,338
Speaker 2: guy for the job is the best guy for the job. Secondly,

2308
01:49:42,537 --> 01:49:47,458
Speaker 2: I'd be more frustrated with that aspect of it if

2309
01:49:47,497 --> 01:49:51,017
Speaker 2: Mike Rabel wasn't qualified, like if it was dry Ao

2310
01:49:51,098 --> 01:49:54,338
Speaker 2: two point zero, I'd be more frustrated with that part

2311
01:49:54,378 --> 01:49:57,058
Speaker 2: of it. But they're the reason why the crafts, in

2312
01:49:57,098 --> 01:49:59,897
Speaker 2: my opinion, are moving so quickly is because Mike Rabel

2313
01:49:59,937 --> 01:50:02,338
Speaker 2: is a coaching free agent. He can get hired at

2314
01:50:02,418 --> 01:50:05,817
Speaker 2: any time by anybody and toom Brady and so if

2315
01:50:05,817 --> 01:50:08,258
Speaker 2: they don't move fast, then he's gonna get hired by

2316
01:50:08,258 --> 01:50:11,137
Speaker 2: somebody else. So I here's my thing about like the

2317
01:50:11,178 --> 01:50:14,138
Speaker 2: thoroughness of the search, right, Yeah, who else do you

2318
01:50:14,138 --> 01:50:16,617
Speaker 2: want them to talk to? Not you? Just like in general,

2319
01:50:16,657 --> 01:50:18,617
Speaker 2: like if you're worry they're not talking about people? Yeah,

2320
01:50:18,657 --> 01:50:20,017
Speaker 2: who else you want them to talk to? I think

2321
01:50:20,018 --> 01:50:22,978
Speaker 2: there's the only other guy really for me is Flores.

2322
01:50:23,218 --> 01:50:25,098
Speaker 2: And they'd have to wait two weeks to do it,

2323
01:50:25,138 --> 01:50:27,777
Speaker 2: and I get that. Yeah, what I I hope they

2324
01:50:27,777 --> 01:50:30,137
Speaker 2: are like Rabel and Ben Johnson. This is a unique

2325
01:50:30,138 --> 01:50:32,577
Speaker 2: psych with Rabel and Ben Johnson. I think are clearly

2326
01:50:33,857 --> 01:50:36,458
Speaker 2: the two best candidates available right now. I put Flores

2327
01:50:36,497 --> 01:50:38,258
Speaker 2: on their tier, but they can't talk to him right now.

2328
01:50:38,577 --> 01:50:42,218
Speaker 2: Those are clearly the two best candidates. I want those

2329
01:50:42,258 --> 01:50:46,737
Speaker 2: two guys vetted thoroughly. I want no stone unturned in

2330
01:50:46,817 --> 01:50:49,777
Speaker 2: those interviews, and I want an open mind going into

2331
01:50:49,817 --> 01:50:53,378
Speaker 2: those interviews between those two. That's what I hope we get.

2332
01:50:54,857 --> 01:50:57,138
Speaker 2: Who else is like Aaron Glenn? All right, I'll give

2333
01:50:57,178 --> 01:50:58,737
Speaker 2: you Aaron Glenn too. I don't think they want a

2334
01:50:58,777 --> 01:51:01,577
Speaker 2: first time defensive head coach, But like I wouldn't mind

2335
01:51:01,577 --> 01:51:03,897
Speaker 2: if they talk to Aaron Glenn. I don't need them

2336
01:51:03,937 --> 01:51:05,458
Speaker 2: to talk to I don't need them to talk to

2337
01:51:05,497 --> 01:51:07,258
Speaker 2: Doug Peterson. Who are some of the other names that

2338
01:51:07,298 --> 01:51:09,817
Speaker 2: are out there. I don't need Liam Cohone. I don't

2339
01:51:09,897 --> 01:51:12,897
Speaker 2: I think leeam no Brady, all right, you talk to

2340
01:51:12,937 --> 01:51:15,258
Speaker 2: Joe Brady to figure out what's going on with Josh Allen.

2341
01:51:15,338 --> 01:51:18,338
Speaker 2: But like, I'm good there, Liam Cohne to me, and

2342
01:51:18,378 --> 01:51:20,097
Speaker 2: I like Liam Cohne, I do. And he's a local

2343
01:51:20,098 --> 01:51:23,338
Speaker 2: guy and all that. He's still probably your away. I

2344
01:51:23,378 --> 01:51:25,458
Speaker 2: think if you hire him, it's too early. Maybe he's

2345
01:51:25,497 --> 01:51:28,577
Speaker 2: not quite as ross Jerd Mayo, but he's like I've

2346
01:51:28,657 --> 01:51:30,178
Speaker 2: kind of dumped on Ben Johnson in the.

2347
01:51:30,098 --> 01:51:33,897
Speaker 3: WELO bounced from LA to Kentucky, back to LA down

2348
01:51:33,937 --> 01:51:34,537
Speaker 3: to Tampa.

2349
01:51:34,817 --> 01:51:36,977
Speaker 2: Like he's you skipped like four or five trips between

2350
01:51:37,098 --> 01:51:37,657
Speaker 2: LA and Kentucky.

2351
01:51:37,737 --> 01:51:41,897
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got to kind of solidify some consistency.

2352
01:51:41,378 --> 01:51:45,378
Speaker 2: I like, as much as I pushed back on Ben Johnson,

2353
01:51:45,378 --> 01:51:47,577
Speaker 2: the whole concept of the first year head coach, as

2354
01:51:47,577 --> 01:51:50,137
Speaker 2: far as the rookie head coach goes, Ben Johnson's relatively

2355
01:51:50,178 --> 01:51:52,737
Speaker 2: well prepared. I'm not picking on Ben Johnson specifically, it's

2356
01:51:52,737 --> 01:51:55,058
Speaker 2: the concept of a rookie head coach. William Cohane to

2357
01:51:55,098 --> 01:51:57,458
Speaker 2: me is like even for a rookie head coach would

2358
01:51:57,497 --> 01:52:00,218
Speaker 2: be raw. Yeah, I would be early, But like, I

2359
01:52:00,218 --> 01:52:01,737
Speaker 2: don't need them. I know some people talk about like

2360
01:52:01,817 --> 01:52:04,617
Speaker 2: Dan Lanning. Dan Lane's going to tell you what worked

2361
01:52:04,617 --> 01:52:06,418
Speaker 2: at Oregon. Dan Lane is going to tell you what

2362
01:52:06,458 --> 01:52:10,537
Speaker 2: worked at the college level. It'd be fascinating. I don't

2363
01:52:10,577 --> 01:52:12,257
Speaker 2: know how much that applies to the New England Patriots.

2364
01:52:12,298 --> 01:52:14,897
Speaker 3: So the only reason in my opinion that you interview

2365
01:52:16,018 --> 01:52:19,497
Speaker 3: some of these other guys I said at the top

2366
01:52:19,497 --> 01:52:21,537
Speaker 3: of the show, I don't need them to interview fifteen guys.

2367
01:52:21,577 --> 01:52:24,298
Speaker 2: Like the Jets are putting in a request for half

2368
01:52:24,298 --> 01:52:26,378
Speaker 2: the league. They talked to Adam Gase, yet they talked

2369
01:52:26,378 --> 01:52:29,017
Speaker 2: to Rex Ryan. That's why what I'm saying, Adam gas

2370
01:52:29,537 --> 01:52:30,097
Speaker 2: I talked.

2371
01:52:29,937 --> 01:52:32,937
Speaker 3: To the entire NFL world, is interviewing with the Jets.

2372
01:52:32,978 --> 01:52:35,378
Speaker 3: I don't need the Patriots to do that. The argument,

2373
01:52:35,418 --> 01:52:37,537
Speaker 3: and you just made it for Joe Brady. The argument

2374
01:52:37,697 --> 01:52:39,817
Speaker 3: is is that you want to hear different perspectives and

2375
01:52:39,857 --> 01:52:42,617
Speaker 3: different philosophies, so that way there you can kind of

2376
01:52:42,617 --> 01:52:45,017
Speaker 3: settle on what the direction is that you want to

2377
01:52:45,058 --> 01:52:48,258
Speaker 3: go in. So if Joe Brady and Liam Cohene, they

2378
01:52:48,298 --> 01:52:50,657
Speaker 3: come in a lot of these interviews, especially the in

2379
01:52:50,737 --> 01:52:53,937
Speaker 3: person ones. They give them a little project. They'll say, Okay,

2380
01:52:54,018 --> 01:52:56,697
Speaker 3: Joe Brady, like, what would you do with Drake may

2381
01:52:57,018 --> 01:52:59,897
Speaker 3: right right now, Joe Brady has it already done, right

2382
01:52:59,978 --> 01:53:02,897
Speaker 3: he would just put on the buffalo yeah, and be

2383
01:53:03,018 --> 01:53:05,298
Speaker 3: like this is what we would do, but that that's

2384
01:53:05,298 --> 01:53:07,937
Speaker 3: sort of what would go into it. And now once

2385
01:53:07,978 --> 01:53:10,338
Speaker 3: you make your higher you can say to them, you know,

2386
01:53:10,378 --> 01:53:13,777
Speaker 3: we really kind of like this philosophy of pushing the

2387
01:53:13,817 --> 01:53:16,657
Speaker 3: offense in this sort of direction and get the head

2388
01:53:16,657 --> 01:53:18,857
Speaker 3: coach's perspective and all that kind of stuff, so that

2389
01:53:19,378 --> 01:53:22,537
Speaker 3: it's really about hearing out the different philosophy.

2390
01:53:22,098 --> 01:53:23,777
Speaker 2: Or the other thing you can do with it is

2391
01:53:24,458 --> 01:53:27,217
Speaker 2: And we saw them do this at a lower level

2392
01:53:27,218 --> 01:53:29,657
Speaker 2: in the past. Like you talk to guys who you're

2393
01:53:29,657 --> 01:53:31,537
Speaker 2: probably not gonna hires head coach, we might hire his

2394
01:53:31,577 --> 01:53:33,617
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator because that we have in the building. You

2395
01:53:33,657 --> 01:53:35,857
Speaker 2: start to build that rapport. Now when you get to

2396
01:53:35,857 --> 01:53:38,458
Speaker 2: the offensive coordinator interviews, you're already kind of a step ahead.

2397
01:53:38,697 --> 01:53:41,897
Speaker 2: Like Pep Hamilton, think that that Pep Hamilton is on

2398
01:53:41,937 --> 01:53:44,497
Speaker 2: that track. Potentially I wouldn't and I know you don't

2399
01:53:44,537 --> 01:53:47,338
Speaker 2: love the job he did, and I get it. I

2400
01:53:47,338 --> 01:53:49,537
Speaker 2: wouldn't roll out Byron left Wich in that regard either,

2401
01:53:49,617 --> 01:53:52,857
Speaker 2: just because I don't know how this works with Brady

2402
01:53:52,897 --> 01:53:55,497
Speaker 2: being an owner of the Raiders, but like he was

2403
01:53:55,537 --> 01:54:00,577
Speaker 2: Brady's OC for multiple years, Brady and Rabel have this relationship. Yep.

2404
01:54:00,777 --> 01:54:02,537
Speaker 2: Does Rabel go to Brady and say what do you

2405
01:54:02,537 --> 01:54:04,298
Speaker 2: think of Byron left Witch? But can he do that?

2406
01:54:04,418 --> 01:54:06,697
Speaker 2: Is that tampering because Brady's with the Raiders, Like, I

2407
01:54:06,697 --> 01:54:08,378
Speaker 2: don't know how that thing works, but there is a

2408
01:54:08,418 --> 01:54:09,097
Speaker 2: connection there.

2409
01:54:09,298 --> 01:54:14,458
Speaker 3: So yeah, and again, I just don't really lose a

2410
01:54:14,458 --> 01:54:16,618
Speaker 3: lot of sleep over the fact that they're not interviewing

2411
01:54:16,978 --> 01:54:18,697
Speaker 3: a dozen candidates for this position.

2412
01:54:19,298 --> 01:54:20,737
Speaker 2: And I just want them to as long as they

2413
01:54:20,737 --> 01:54:22,257
Speaker 2: have an open mind with Ben Johnson.

2414
01:54:22,338 --> 01:54:24,657
Speaker 3: Yeah, the other thing, and then I will take these

2415
01:54:24,697 --> 01:54:26,737
Speaker 3: calls and wrap it up. The other thing, I would

2416
01:54:26,817 --> 01:54:29,057
Speaker 3: just say about the breadth of this search and all

2417
01:54:29,058 --> 01:54:32,298
Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. I was skeptical to put them

2418
01:54:32,298 --> 01:54:36,778
Speaker 3: in this category because of the timeline, like I thought,

2419
01:54:37,618 --> 01:54:42,298
Speaker 3: and I still do. If Buffalo, if Philadelphia, if they're

2420
01:54:42,298 --> 01:54:44,858
Speaker 3: one and done in the playoffs this year and one

2421
01:54:44,897 --> 01:54:47,297
Speaker 3: of those two head coaches get fired as a result,

2422
01:54:48,058 --> 01:54:51,057
Speaker 3: they're gonna be the top destination. But as of right now,

2423
01:54:51,098 --> 01:54:53,218
Speaker 3: the six teams that have let their head coaches go

2424
01:54:53,978 --> 01:54:56,738
Speaker 3: on Black Monday. As of right now, the New England

2425
01:54:56,778 --> 01:55:00,017
Speaker 3: Patriots are the top destination on the board. So as

2426
01:55:00,058 --> 01:55:03,177
Speaker 3: a result, they have their pick. You don't need contingency planning.

2427
01:55:03,218 --> 01:55:07,337
Speaker 3: They don't need contingency plans. You're interviewing guys like Drew Petsing,

2428
01:55:07,418 --> 01:55:10,897
Speaker 3: Liam Cohne. Those types of guys are getting interviews as

2429
01:55:11,178 --> 01:55:12,017
Speaker 3: playing BCD.

2430
01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:16,378
Speaker 2: Right, it's the rookie guys being interviewed in case of

2431
01:55:16,418 --> 01:55:18,818
Speaker 2: Louise Johnson, the other guys being interviewed in case lose

2432
01:55:18,897 --> 01:55:22,498
Speaker 2: you lose out on Raybel Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with

2433
01:55:22,618 --> 01:55:23,017
Speaker 2: you on that.

2434
01:55:23,778 --> 01:55:26,538
Speaker 3: It surprises me to an extent that the Patriots are

2435
01:55:26,538 --> 01:55:27,538
Speaker 3: the number one destination.

2436
01:55:27,738 --> 01:55:27,937
Speaker 2: Kay.

2437
01:55:28,538 --> 01:55:31,538
Speaker 3: Maybe I'm just like trying to like tech myself in

2438
01:55:31,538 --> 01:55:32,217
Speaker 3: that situation.

2439
01:55:32,258 --> 01:55:34,458
Speaker 2: I think some of it might be I mean, the

2440
01:55:34,458 --> 01:55:36,778
Speaker 2: other destinations, some of it might be my default. The

2441
01:55:36,818 --> 01:55:39,578
Speaker 2: other destinations are bad. Yeah, it's really the only other

2442
01:55:39,618 --> 01:55:42,498
Speaker 2: one that has a case of Chicago. Chicago's not terrible,

2443
01:55:42,538 --> 01:55:45,338
Speaker 2: it's more just a track record of ownership there. But yeah,

2444
01:55:45,378 --> 01:55:49,977
Speaker 2: I mean the Jets are that's brutal the Saints might

2445
01:55:50,018 --> 01:55:52,658
Speaker 2: have to hire you, Yeah, dumpster because nobody wants to

2446
01:55:52,698 --> 01:55:54,858
Speaker 2: go there. Yeah, so, and then you can do your

2447
01:55:54,858 --> 01:55:56,418
Speaker 2: whole thing about the Saints salary cap.

2448
01:55:56,538 --> 01:55:59,418
Speaker 3: Yeah in Vegas also kind of a dumpster fire. So uh,

2449
01:55:59,698 --> 01:56:00,858
Speaker 3: the Patriots Vegas.

2450
01:56:00,618 --> 01:56:02,538
Speaker 2: Should be better option if they have a top two pick.

2451
01:56:02,658 --> 01:56:05,498
Speaker 3: The Patriots have a quarterback, they have cap space, and

2452
01:56:05,538 --> 01:56:08,538
Speaker 3: they have a top draft pick. So you're coming in

2453
01:56:08,578 --> 01:56:12,258
Speaker 3: and you it's you have the canvas, right, It's the

2454
01:56:12,298 --> 01:56:15,017
Speaker 3: world is your oyster here in New England. And even

2455
01:56:15,058 --> 01:56:17,658
Speaker 3: though here locally the Crafts have taken on a lot

2456
01:56:17,658 --> 01:56:19,858
Speaker 3: of water in the last four or five years, I

2457
01:56:19,897 --> 01:56:22,538
Speaker 3: think I still think across the league they are viewed

2458
01:56:22,538 --> 01:56:24,897
Speaker 3: as good owners. And I also had stable owners because

2459
01:56:24,897 --> 01:56:26,937
Speaker 3: the team's not going any Look, it.

2460
01:56:26,937 --> 01:56:28,258
Speaker 2: Would have to go so bad for them to one

2461
01:56:28,298 --> 01:56:29,937
Speaker 2: and done two coaches in a row. Right, So you

2462
01:56:30,178 --> 01:56:31,818
Speaker 2: may be think you're gonna get a little longer leash.

2463
01:56:32,218 --> 01:56:33,897
Speaker 3: All right, let's get back to the phones and then

2464
01:56:33,897 --> 01:56:36,858
Speaker 3: we'll call it a day. Here Don is in Philadelphia.

2465
01:56:36,897 --> 01:56:38,538
Speaker 3: What's up, don O?

2466
01:56:38,578 --> 01:56:42,137
Speaker 8: Hey, guys, I just wanted to talk roster construction really quick.

2467
01:56:43,378 --> 01:56:47,498
Speaker 8: I'm not sure the average fan really realizes how much

2468
01:56:47,618 --> 01:56:50,017
Speaker 8: cap space one hundred and thirty million dollars is.

2469
01:56:50,258 --> 01:56:50,858
Speaker 2: I think you're right.

2470
01:56:50,897 --> 01:56:53,977
Speaker 8: You can get you can get top tier players that

2471
01:56:54,018 --> 01:56:57,418
Speaker 8: are starting. I mean the way you structure those contracts.

2472
01:56:57,538 --> 01:56:59,218
Speaker 8: You know, I know the hot name being thrown out

2473
01:56:59,298 --> 01:57:02,778
Speaker 8: is always T Higgins, and I know Alex loves the

2474
01:57:02,818 --> 01:57:08,698
Speaker 8: idea of trading for a DK mattcat. My my thought

2475
01:57:08,778 --> 01:57:13,698
Speaker 8: is is you know why, you know, spend all this

2476
01:57:13,818 --> 01:57:16,618
Speaker 8: money if you can get a Byron Murphy, get a

2477
01:57:16,698 --> 01:57:20,538
Speaker 8: DJ Reid, get a T. Higgins, and then you could

2478
01:57:20,658 --> 01:57:24,097
Speaker 8: draft best player available. You know, I think Calvin Banks

2479
01:57:24,178 --> 01:57:26,698
Speaker 8: is good, but if you can get app Bill Carter,

2480
01:57:26,978 --> 01:57:28,698
Speaker 8: I think his feeling is much higher.

2481
01:57:29,178 --> 01:57:30,338
Speaker 5: You know what?

2482
01:57:30,658 --> 01:57:31,937
Speaker 7: And also what is your thought?

2483
01:57:32,458 --> 01:57:35,738
Speaker 8: Would you trade a second round pick for a DK Metcalf?

2484
01:57:36,218 --> 01:57:39,338
Speaker 2: But I'll leave it you guys, than no problem. Don

2485
01:57:39,498 --> 01:57:42,618
Speaker 2: gonna take care of the dog. Yeah. So I agree

2486
01:57:42,658 --> 01:57:44,977
Speaker 2: with most of what he said. The only little thing

2487
01:57:45,058 --> 01:57:48,057
Speaker 2: there is it's great in theory to say we're gonna

2488
01:57:48,058 --> 01:57:50,658
Speaker 2: spend money on a starting corner, starting wide receiver, starting tackle,

2489
01:57:50,698 --> 01:57:53,538
Speaker 2: starting edge rusher. Right, yeah, Well, all those players have

2490
01:57:53,538 --> 01:57:55,258
Speaker 2: to be available for you to spend money on. You

2491
01:57:55,258 --> 01:57:57,338
Speaker 2: can't just create players out of thin air. I think

2492
01:57:57,338 --> 01:58:00,097
Speaker 2: at most of the positions you can do it. If

2493
01:58:00,138 --> 01:58:03,218
Speaker 2: not through outright free agency trading for pre agents, guys

2494
01:58:03,218 --> 01:58:06,698
Speaker 2: that are entering their last year. I tackle to me,

2495
01:58:07,138 --> 01:58:09,897
Speaker 2: the market does not look great. There's Cam Robinson and

2496
01:58:09,937 --> 01:58:11,698
Speaker 2: maybe you throw a bag at Cam Robinson and maybe

2497
01:58:12,937 --> 01:58:15,217
Speaker 2: I would be shocked if he gets out of Baltimore

2498
01:58:15,378 --> 01:58:17,498
Speaker 2: as well. Right, so like maybe you throw a bag

2499
01:58:17,498 --> 01:58:19,658
Speaker 2: at Ronnie Stanley. And that's the answer to his point

2500
01:58:19,658 --> 01:58:22,057
Speaker 2: about like you can draft the best player available. Well,

2501
01:58:22,058 --> 01:58:24,658
Speaker 2: if you can take care of every position but one,

2502
01:58:25,378 --> 01:58:27,258
Speaker 2: then you can draft that. And I think between some

2503
01:58:27,338 --> 01:58:29,338
Speaker 2: of like the tackling edge rusher guys, it is close.

2504
01:58:29,498 --> 01:58:32,017
Speaker 2: So I I still think if you want that premier

2505
01:58:32,098 --> 01:58:35,218
Speaker 2: tackle like Cam Robinson's a good tackle, if you want

2506
01:58:35,218 --> 01:58:37,658
Speaker 2: your franchise left tackle, set it and forget it ten years,

2507
01:58:37,698 --> 01:58:40,178
Speaker 2: you probably need to go to the draft. But no,

2508
01:58:40,258 --> 01:58:43,257
Speaker 2: they they should be. They need to bring in multiple

2509
01:58:43,258 --> 01:58:47,858
Speaker 2: starters through the veteran market. I you know, corner, we've talked.

2510
01:58:48,018 --> 01:58:49,897
Speaker 2: You don't need a stud corner. It'd be great, but

2511
01:58:50,178 --> 01:58:52,017
Speaker 2: you can get away with like DJ Reads a little

2512
01:58:52,018 --> 01:58:53,897
Speaker 2: small for me, but like a Carlton Davis, this guy,

2513
01:58:53,897 --> 01:58:56,658
Speaker 2: I've talked about a couple of decent pass rushers out

2514
01:58:56,658 --> 01:59:00,818
Speaker 2: there that'll be available. I'm a second for DK Metcalf.

2515
01:59:00,978 --> 01:59:05,538
Speaker 2: I would do that. I'm done thirty eight for DK Metcalf.

2516
01:59:05,978 --> 01:59:08,257
Speaker 2: You're not going to draft a receiver veteran DK Metcalf

2517
01:59:08,298 --> 01:59:11,338
Speaker 2: at thirty eight, and you probably need to be using

2518
01:59:11,378 --> 01:59:12,937
Speaker 2: your top pick on the trenches one side of the

2519
01:59:12,937 --> 01:59:15,897
Speaker 2: ball or the other. So it's probably the Highester taking receiver.

2520
01:59:16,498 --> 01:59:18,977
Speaker 2: I'd try easily trade that pick for DK Metcalf. You

2521
01:59:19,018 --> 01:59:21,738
Speaker 2: give him like thirty million a year. DJ Reid's gonna

2522
01:59:21,738 --> 01:59:25,057
Speaker 2: cost you what like fifteen? Or Carlton Davis, Whoever's gonna

2523
01:59:25,058 --> 01:59:27,858
Speaker 2: cost you fifteen? Pass rusher is probably another fifteen. The

2524
01:59:27,858 --> 01:59:30,097
Speaker 2: money is not the problem. You're only half You're less

2525
01:59:30,098 --> 01:59:31,618
Speaker 2: than half through your salary cap at that.

2526
01:59:31,738 --> 01:59:33,738
Speaker 3: The money is not the problem. The problem is is

2527
01:59:33,778 --> 01:59:38,217
Speaker 3: that it's about the talent on the board. And yes,

2528
01:59:38,498 --> 01:59:41,178
Speaker 3: you if theoretically could sign a Cam Robbinson, could sign

2529
01:59:41,178 --> 01:59:42,137
Speaker 3: a Carlton Davis.

2530
01:59:42,258 --> 01:59:44,897
Speaker 2: But the question is are they good enough? Right?

2531
01:59:44,937 --> 01:59:45,017
Speaker 4: Like?

2532
01:59:45,098 --> 01:59:47,618
Speaker 2: Are they truly good enough player? If you if you

2533
01:59:48,058 --> 01:59:50,858
Speaker 2: put all the moves together correctly, I think you know

2534
01:59:50,897 --> 01:59:54,097
Speaker 2: you're not building super bowl roster this offseason. I don't

2535
01:59:54,098 --> 01:59:55,858
Speaker 2: think you're gonna get the players good enough to make

2536
01:59:55,897 --> 01:59:58,057
Speaker 2: you like a super Bowl team this offseason, right, Can

2537
01:59:58,098 --> 01:59:59,658
Speaker 2: they put you in the right direction? Can you be

2538
01:59:59,698 --> 02:00:01,258
Speaker 2: one of these teams? You were in the mix for

2539
02:00:01,298 --> 02:00:03,458
Speaker 2: the playoffs the last week? Yeah, I think the talent's

2540
02:00:03,458 --> 02:00:03,858
Speaker 2: there for that.

2541
02:00:03,978 --> 02:00:05,818
Speaker 3: So you what you worry about though, is like in

2542
02:00:05,858 --> 02:00:09,018
Speaker 3: twenty one, they got one really true impact player in

2543
02:00:09,098 --> 02:00:11,858
Speaker 3: Matthew g Yeah, Hunter Henry is a really solid title.

2544
02:00:12,018 --> 02:00:13,618
Speaker 2: I'll give him that one. Kendrick Bourne would have been

2545
02:00:13,658 --> 02:00:15,258
Speaker 2: good if they didn't screw with him. Sure, but like

2546
02:00:15,458 --> 02:00:18,458
Speaker 2: Kendrick Bourne, Nelson Agalore, John new Smith, do not put

2547
02:00:18,538 --> 02:00:21,338
Speaker 2: Kendrick burn group is Agalre and Smith. Those are different.

2548
02:00:21,378 --> 02:00:24,258
Speaker 3: Okay, Also, as we now know, like those guys are

2549
02:00:24,298 --> 02:00:26,338
Speaker 3: good players, but they're not great players.

2550
02:00:26,378 --> 02:00:28,778
Speaker 2: Well as we now know, John new Smith's not a

2551
02:00:28,818 --> 02:00:31,418
Speaker 2: bad player, they just didn't use them. But my point

2552
02:00:31,458 --> 02:00:33,178
Speaker 2: being is that you're not getting the great players in

2553
02:00:33,218 --> 02:00:34,977
Speaker 2: free agent. No, you're not. That has to come through

2554
02:00:35,018 --> 02:00:37,097
Speaker 2: the draft. You're supporting it through free agent or yeah,

2555
02:00:37,178 --> 02:00:40,298
Speaker 2: veteran market. You got to be able to draft well

2556
02:00:40,618 --> 02:00:43,738
Speaker 2: Robertkraft talked about this. He was exactly right. You can't

2557
02:00:43,738 --> 02:00:46,177
Speaker 2: have sustained success in the NFL, and look what happened

2558
02:00:46,218 --> 02:00:48,218
Speaker 2: they did that In the next few years. They didn't

2559
02:00:48,218 --> 02:00:50,498
Speaker 2: really add anybody in free agency, they had bad drafts,

2560
02:00:50,578 --> 02:00:52,818
Speaker 2: So one offseason is not going to fix it. You

2561
02:00:52,858 --> 02:00:55,738
Speaker 2: can absolutely get yourself going in the right direction, though,

2562
02:00:55,978 --> 02:01:00,418
Speaker 2: and I think for that first step, the talent is available.

2563
02:01:00,458 --> 02:01:03,458
Speaker 2: Between the draft and the veteran market, they can make

2564
02:01:03,498 --> 02:01:05,097
Speaker 2: the moves they need to make to get on that

2565
02:01:05,138 --> 02:01:07,778
Speaker 2: first step. They then got to followed up next offseason

2566
02:01:07,818 --> 02:01:09,778
Speaker 2: the off season after that, which is what they didn't

2567
02:01:09,778 --> 02:01:12,017
Speaker 2: do last time. But I do think the talent's there

2568
02:01:12,058 --> 02:01:14,018
Speaker 2: to do more or less what they need to do

2569
02:01:14,098 --> 02:01:18,058
Speaker 2: to have like what is reasonably a successful offseason this offseason.

2570
02:01:17,618 --> 02:01:20,738
Speaker 3: So they need to in my opinion, we always say

2571
02:01:20,738 --> 02:01:23,178
Speaker 3: that there's no such thing as best player available. Yeah,

2572
02:01:23,258 --> 02:01:26,177
Speaker 3: but there's best player available at premium position, best player

2573
02:01:26,178 --> 02:01:28,858
Speaker 3: available for the football team. So I don't necessarily care

2574
02:01:29,698 --> 02:01:33,658
Speaker 3: about targetting a tackle, targeting a receiver. I'd be open

2575
02:01:33,778 --> 02:01:36,618
Speaker 3: to Abdull Carter as much as I'm open to Calvin Banks.

2576
02:01:37,098 --> 02:01:39,458
Speaker 3: If I'm the Patriots, I'm approaching it the same way.

2577
02:01:39,978 --> 02:01:42,698
Speaker 3: I'm just not drafting guards and running backs and kickers

2578
02:01:42,698 --> 02:01:45,418
Speaker 3: and punters, and like you gotta it's gotta be a

2579
02:01:45,418 --> 02:01:47,977
Speaker 3: premium position. It's got to be it's got to be

2580
02:01:47,978 --> 02:01:50,658
Speaker 3: a receiver, okay, but a tackle, a pass rusher, or

2581
02:01:50,698 --> 02:01:53,858
Speaker 3: a corner. The overall I'm not drafting defensive tackles either.

2582
02:01:54,058 --> 02:01:58,018
Speaker 2: I'm with you, Almadam, Mason Graham. The overall philosophy stands. Yeah,

2583
02:01:58,098 --> 02:01:59,538
Speaker 2: but you can only pick the players that are on

2584
02:01:59,578 --> 02:02:03,338
Speaker 2: the board. It's Tet McMillan good enough to be worthy.

2585
02:02:03,418 --> 02:02:06,618
Speaker 2: That's that's a bigger conversation that we don't have time for. Well, no,

2586
02:02:06,658 --> 02:02:08,778
Speaker 2: we we have a lot of time over the coming weeks.

2587
02:02:08,818 --> 02:02:11,858
Speaker 2: But my point is, like you have to if you

2588
02:02:11,978 --> 02:02:13,778
Speaker 2: if you know Teed McMillan is not worth that pick,

2589
02:02:13,818 --> 02:02:15,937
Speaker 2: and you know you need to add a receiver, you

2590
02:02:16,098 --> 02:02:18,778
Speaker 2: have to be very aggressive in the vet whether it's Higgins,

2591
02:02:18,778 --> 02:02:21,298
Speaker 2: whether it's Metcalfe, with it somebody else, not Tyreek Hill, though,

2592
02:02:21,378 --> 02:02:23,137
Speaker 2: you have to be very aggressive to the veteran market.

2593
02:02:23,298 --> 02:02:25,298
Speaker 2: You want them to add tyreek Kill. I'm just laughing.

2594
02:02:25,578 --> 02:02:26,578
Speaker 2: I'm out on time, Okay.

2595
02:02:26,618 --> 02:02:29,738
Speaker 3: We gotta wrap uh the playbook is coming up at

2596
02:02:29,738 --> 02:02:32,258
Speaker 3: two thirties. If you didn't get your calls and your

2597
02:02:32,258 --> 02:02:34,738
Speaker 3: emails in, you can hang on and John Rocca will

2598
02:02:34,778 --> 02:02:37,298
Speaker 3: be along here shortly to take those.

2599
02:02:37,298 --> 02:02:38,937
Speaker 2: But we're already over, so we got to go. I

2600
02:02:38,937 --> 02:02:40,698
Speaker 2: hope we lived up to the billing I said before

2601
02:02:40,738 --> 02:02:41,937
Speaker 2: the show on Twitter is like this is gonna be

2602
02:02:41,937 --> 02:02:43,298
Speaker 2: in all time er. I hope we lived up there

2603
02:02:43,218 --> 02:02:45,378
Speaker 2: and we did yell at each other, and that show

2604
02:02:45,458 --> 02:02:47,738
Speaker 2: honestly felt like it was fifteen minutes. All right, Well,

2605
02:02:47,778 --> 02:02:48,778
Speaker 2: we'll be back next week.

2606
02:02:48,818 --> 02:02:50,977
Speaker 3: This is our new time slot for the off season,

2607
02:02:51,018 --> 02:02:54,498
Speaker 3: so noon to two on Wednesdays for the duration of

2608
02:02:54,538 --> 02:02:55,538
Speaker 3: the off season.

2609
02:02:55,498 --> 02:02:56,897
Speaker 2: For like two weeks, and then we'll have to move

2610
02:02:56,937 --> 02:02:59,458
Speaker 2: it further to senior ball and then the comment but

2611
02:02:59,658 --> 02:03:00,218
Speaker 2: this will be there.

2612
02:03:00,298 --> 02:03:02,498
Speaker 3: This is this is supposed to be the permanent time slot.

2613
02:03:02,538 --> 02:03:04,498
Speaker 3: So we'll see you guys next week at this time.

2614
02:03:04,538 --> 02:03:06,778
Speaker 2: And I think we might have a Patriots head coach

2615
02:03:06,818 --> 02:03:08,338
Speaker 2: by that point, so we'll talk about it then.

2616
02:03:08,418 --> 02:03:12,858
Speaker 6: But thank you for downloading this podcast, Subscribe on Apple,

2617
02:03:12,897 --> 02:03:15,937
Speaker 6: google Play, and everywhere else you listen. Like the show,

2618
02:03:16,058 --> 02:03:19,498
Speaker 6: Please rate and review us. Listener comments and ratings help

2619
02:03:19,538 --> 02:03:22,337
Speaker 6: keep us high in the podcast rankings so new listeners

2620
02:03:22,338 --> 02:03:25,297
Speaker 6: can find us. Be sure to check Patriots dot com

2621
02:03:25,338 --> 02:03:27,698
Speaker 6: for more news and more podcasts.

2622
02:03:33,978 --> 02:03:35,538
Speaker 2: Patriots Postgame Show.

2623
02:03:36,978 --> 02:03:39,897
Speaker 1: Join Matt Smith along with Patriots dot COM's Paul Parrillo

2624
02:03:39,937 --> 02:03:43,177
Speaker 1: and Mike dessou as they offer instant analysis after every

2625
02:03:43,178 --> 02:03:46,178
Speaker 1: Patriots game. We bring you the good, the bad, and

2626
02:03:46,258 --> 02:03:47,378
Speaker 1: the injury from each game.

2627
02:03:47,658 --> 02:03:48,658
Speaker 2: Plus you'll hear.

2628
02:03:48,578 --> 02:03:51,977
Speaker 1: Press conferences, exclusive player interviews, and more on the Patriots

2629
02:03:52,058 --> 02:03:55,418
Speaker 1: Postgame Show. Search for Patriots Postgame anywhere you get your

2630
02:03:55,458 --> 02:03:56,098
Speaker 1: podcasts