1 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to the show, ladies and gentlemen. I'm ben No. Wow, 2 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: this is like a very standard intro we're trying today. Yeah, 3 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: we're going We're going straight for it. But we were 4 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: only able to make this show, of course, with the 5 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: assistance of our esteemed third member friends and neighbors, super 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegrham. Sort of a vanilla opening, would you 7 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: white bread a little homogeneous? Yes? Yes, uh, today we are. Well, 8 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: let's let's start in the modern dayn For a long time, 9 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: neither of us had ever been to Portland's until pretty recently. 10 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: It's true, I only spent a little bit of time there. 11 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: I think you had a little bit more of a 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: fully fleshed out Portland experience. But will you tell me then, 13 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: is the dream of the nineties in fact still alive 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: in Portland? Yes? Uh, I I thoroughly enjoyed the town. 15 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: I thought it was surprising. I was diplomatic enough not 16 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: to directly mentioned the comedy show Portlandia to anybody that 17 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: gets really old. I am sure it does. It's like 18 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: when people visit our city and call it Hotlanta. Yeah, well, 19 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: I would say this is even more egregious. Probably people 20 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: running around, so they put a bird on it. Yes, 21 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: and Portland has this national reputation at least for being 22 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: a very progressive city. Right, face tattoos are cool. Uh, 23 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: marijuana is decriminalized, the streets are paved in marijuana. In fact, 24 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: it does have a particular smell, and in general people 25 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: would see it as sort of a bastion of left 26 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: leaning culture. Yeah, super chill. You know you can you 27 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: can buy a sandwich for a song in Portland. Literally, 28 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a good song. It's just 29 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: a song. A song um or you know, a little 30 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 1: soft shoe or maybe you've got a one man band 31 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: kind of Dick van Dyke situation going on that I 32 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: did see one man band when I was there. Did 33 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: you see that guy? No, I just pulled that out 34 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: of my of my ear. Well, you are correct, and 35 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: there there are one man band's in Portland. There are 36 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: also numerous amazing things, amazing bits of history. One of 37 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: our coworkers, a guy named Nathan, is actually from Oregon, 38 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: and he assured us that Portland is more of a 39 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: cultural exception to the rule nowadays. Yeah, I can see that. 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm actually wearing my timberline lodge hat right now. But 41 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: I bought at the Portland Airport, and as you might imagine, 42 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: at the Portland Airport, not a chain restaurant in site, 43 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: my friend, all of the shops sell handmade artisanal goods. 44 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: I bought some really cute little pieces of pottery there 45 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: for me Mom. That's sweet of you, man, and that's 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: really dope hat. It is a great hat. So it's 47 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: safe to say that you and I are are fans 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: of Portland's and would travel there again in the future, 49 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: at least modern Portland's, right right. I don't think I 50 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: would want to travel there in a time machine to past. Yes. Yes, 51 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: today's episode is about the origins of Oregon Portland in particular, 52 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: Wow One Take, or as it's called here. I'm in 53 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: some of these articles that we're looking at the Oregon country. Yeah, 54 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: Oregon country. That might sound weird to some people. What 55 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: is Oregon Country? I kept seeing it and it was 56 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: a little weird sounding. It was confusive, but I figured 57 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: it out with my internet sleuth skills. Um, what would 58 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: now be modern day Oregon, Washington State, and Idaho was 59 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: all kind of clustered together in this one big old 60 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: chunk of land. Collectively referred to as the Oregon Country. Yeah, 61 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: and this was, Um, let's see, way back in eighteen eighteen, right, 62 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: the US and Britain agreed to jointly occupy this. Yeah. 63 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: That seems like a like an odd couple in a situation. Um. 64 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: And then I think the US started getting a little 65 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: greedy and being like, you know what, we kind of 66 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: want this for our for our own, we turn this 67 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: into some states. Yeah, because the British wanted to be 68 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: in the area in Oregon Country, mainly to engage in 69 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: the fur trade. That's right. And James K. Polk U, 70 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: who was an expansionist president, right, Um, really wanted to 71 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: make this our own. And and you know, not not share, 72 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: not go has these with the Brits anymore. So that 73 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: ultimately happened. They negotiated. Uh, they decided it wasn't worth 74 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: going to war over the Brits in anyway. And Um, 75 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: there was some back and forth. And there's a really 76 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 1: great slogan that the Northerners used. Um. It was fifty 77 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: four forty or fight um. And fifty four forty was 78 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: talking about the coordinates the latitude that marked the northernmost 79 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: part of this territory and During these negotiations, the us 80 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: is first proposal was that the territory be cut in half, 81 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: right with that, with that border at the forty ninth parallel, 82 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: and the British rejected it. And so the expansionists, many 83 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: of whom were anti slavery Northerners, which is super important 84 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: for this part of the story. Uh, they are the 85 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: ones who called for more American aggression. Get out there 86 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: be a big dog. Fifty four forty or fight. It's 87 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: hard to say you did really well with that bad 88 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: fifty forty or fight. It's tough. It's fun when you 89 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: really get it right though. It gives you a sense 90 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: of accomplishment, as I'm sure they felt when they finally 91 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: arrived at a pretty decent deal with the Brits where 92 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: they divided the territory along the forty nine parallel. That's 93 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: that's pretty close to fifty four. I guess what's the 94 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: forty thought forty like minutes? Uh, divisions of degrees. It's 95 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 1: like a decimal kind of yeah, kind of interesting. Interesting. 96 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: So this is where we end up with oregon Um needing, 97 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, to become a state. And when you become 98 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: a state, what do you do? You have to have 99 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: a state constitution. And as we know, constitutions are not 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: generally made overnight. They often reflect common practices, goals, or 101 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: even existing laws that are a community has practiced or 102 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: written down beforehand. And Oregon had its own pre existing laws. 103 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: In eighteen forty four, they passed something called the Exclusion 104 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: Law and this was this was enacted by the provisional 105 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: government of the region at the time. What what did 106 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: the Exclusion Law do? Yeah, it was this guy named 107 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: Peter Burnett who was like kind of an Oregon Trail 108 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,679 Speaker 1: kind of blazer. I guess Peter Hardeman Burnett. And actually, 109 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: spoiler alert, we're gonna dig into him in a little 110 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: more detail later in the show for big time foreshadowing. 111 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: But here's what this dude did, just just to give 112 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: you a taste of what his medicine was like. He 113 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: was a former slave owner UM and has has a 114 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: really crazy resume, did all kinds of interesting things in 115 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: his life. But by all accounts, uh a a alarming, 116 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: dastardly racist, virulate racist big time. So this Exclusion law 117 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: UM that was enacted sort of pre proper government and 118 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: constitution UM basically allowed slaveholders to hold on for dear 119 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: life to those slaves for a maximum of up to 120 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: three years. And at first I was like, wait, is 121 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: this is this because of emancipation? But then no, no, 122 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: that that was decades later. This is eighteen forty four. 123 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: That wasn't until like the eighteen six and I realized, oh, no, 124 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: Oregon outlawed slavery in the territory. Right, But here's the key, UK, 125 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: And if your thing is gonna be like, Oh, that's 126 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: that's nice, what a great bunch of people. Yeah, okay, 127 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: but but there's more. Um So, yeah, this grace period 128 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: of three years, but then all of those freed black 129 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: people work required to leave. Yeah, that's the thing. The 130 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: government of Oregon past this exclusion Law of eighteen forty four, 131 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: and in it they did place a ban on slavery 132 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: with a requirement that slave owners eventually free their slaves. 133 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: But they did this with the understanding that any African 134 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: American who remained in Oregon after they were freed would 135 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: be flogged, whiplash and forcibly expelled from the country. If 136 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: they were caught in the Oregon country again within six months, 137 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: then the punishment would be repeated. And then eventually the 138 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: law was amended in another version to substitute forced labor, 139 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: so essentially slavery instead of flogging, and then it was 140 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: repealed in eighteen So this community was so racist that 141 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: the they didn't even condone slavery. They were so such 142 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: white supremacists they just didn't want them around like at all. 143 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: And there's there's some language we'll get into and in 144 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: a second, but I do just want to point this out. 145 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: The that law you mentioned about about flogging or that 146 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: the penalty was called the Burnett lash Law because our 147 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: buddy Burnett was so into this that he he wanted 148 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: to brand it with his own his name. I was 149 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: like his signature thing. And it required that um or 150 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: declared rather that offenders who refused to leave would be 151 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: punished with quote not less than twenty or more than 152 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: thirty nine stripes, and that would that would be a 153 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: cycle that would recur every six months until they left. Unfortunately, 154 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: this lash law did get amended and repealed, so as 155 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 1: far as we know today, uh no people were ever 156 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: lashed as a result of that law. But this was 157 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: just the first of three different laws like this that 158 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: all were meant to ban people of color from Oregon Country, 159 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: which again at that point is like Washington, Oregon and 160 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: part of Idaho. It's a huge swath of lands, that's right, um, 161 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: And we're getting some of this information from a fe 162 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: different places. One of my favorites was a Washington Post 163 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: article by Danne L. Brown called when Portland band Black's 164 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: Oregon's shameful history as an all white state, whereas I've 165 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: seen it referred to as an all white utopia. Kind 166 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: of right, they were after at least there's this weird 167 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: history of intentional communities and utopian thinking in Oregon. So 168 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: it's not not all examples of racist but this definitely 169 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: was the idea for the people who were supporting this 170 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: concept was that somehow society would be better if they 171 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: all felt like if they all somehow identified with the 172 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: same ethnicity. Now, did they have the same sort of 173 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: racism that would be common in the Northeast at the time, 174 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: wherein for instance, Italian or Irish immigrants or children of 175 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: those immigrants are still considered not wide enough. I don't know, 176 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: but what was on the books was a specifically targeting 177 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: people of color. In eighteen, this provisional or territorial government 178 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: passed the law making it illegal for any quote negro 179 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: or mulatto to live in Oregon Country. But they did 180 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: have a provision for people who had Native American blood, 181 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: which they weirdly referred to as half breeds. Um, because 182 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 1: they're despicable people. They are to big old people. But 183 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: it's interesting that only all it takes is just just 184 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: get a little white in you. They really didn't like 185 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: black people. Yeah, that's what it boils down to. All 186 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: right then, Yeah, so it's state time, baby, here we go. 187 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: What do you need to make a state? As we 188 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: established earlier, Yeah, you need um, you gotta have some dirt. Um, 189 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: you gotta have a delineation between your dirt and the 190 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: other people's dirt. You have to have some people in 191 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: both sides so that you can differentiate a constitution. There 192 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: we go. Yes, in eighteen fifty seven, the government of 193 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 1: what would become Oregon was working on its constitution. They 194 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: did a couple of things. Uh, they grossly plagiarized constitutions 195 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 1: from other states at the time. That's you know, you're 196 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: just gonna be some of that, right. Constitution is not 197 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: exactly a great work of poetry that you you know, 198 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: pilfering from is is look down upon it. So that's 199 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: almost sort of like stealing a boilerplate release form or 200 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I think that's a very good point, 201 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: being that Oregon was going to be a state in 202 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: the US and have voters and such. They asked about 203 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: ten thousand residents to vote on the new state constitution, 204 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: and they had three questions, burning questions, turning questions. One, 205 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 1: do you vote for the constitution? Overwhelmingly voters supported it. 206 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: Two do you vote for slavery in Oregon? And the 207 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,599 Speaker 1: voters of Oregon rejected the institution of slavery by a 208 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: pretty wide margin, also pretty overwhelmingly. Uh. And then three, 209 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: and this is a quote again, this is problematic language. 210 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: They say, do you vote for free negroes in Oregon? 211 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: And the answer was, oh, yeah, it was. It was 212 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: a now. Yeah, it was a big now. And they 213 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: explicitly baked in this racist language into their constitution. In fact, 214 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: we have a quote from the state constitution. Yes, it 215 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: goes as such, again quoting some offensive language here. Quote, 216 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: no free negro or mulatto not residing in this state 217 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,439 Speaker 1: at the time of the adoption of this constitution shall 218 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: ever come reside or be within this state or hold 219 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: any real estate, or make any contract, or maintain any 220 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: suit therein, and the Legislative Assembly shall provide by penal 221 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: laws for the removal by public officers of all such 222 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: free negroes and mulatto's, and for their effectual exclusion from 223 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: the state, and for the punishment of persons who shall 224 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: bring them into the state or employ or harbor them. 225 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: They're in right, that is bonkers. It is categorical as well, 226 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: So pay attention for to that very last lying where 227 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: it says that anyone who helps a person of color 228 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: is also guilty in the eyes of Oregon law. And 229 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: that's that's a terrifying thing. But it passed. People were supportive. 230 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: Oregon became a state in eighteen fifty nine, and it 231 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: was the only state in history, only state, only state 232 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: in history so far that entered as a whites only state, 233 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: so anti slavery, but only because they were such white supremacists. 234 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: And that's mind boggling. People in Portland are so nice. Yeah, 235 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: it really does blow my mind, and it makes me 236 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: wonder like why, like Mississippi didn't try to do anything 237 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: like this, Probably because they were just too many black 238 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: people already living there. It was just it would have 239 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: been like a massive round up kind of like deportation 240 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: kind of situation, and they were economically dependent that controlling 241 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: powers of the state were economically dependent on this, because 242 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: it feels like Oregon was probably pretty largely white already, 243 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: and then the slaves that were there were kind of 244 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: like imported kind of for that purpose. And then then 245 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: they free them and they give them the boot, and 246 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: and this largely worked. There were a couple of examples though, 247 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: of folks trying to get around it, not very many, though, 248 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: and one in particular of somebody being kicked out pretty hanously. 249 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: Yeah Vanderpool, right, that's right. Yeah, in eighteen fifty one, 250 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: before the Constitution was written and before Oregon became a 251 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 1: US state, but after these exclusion laws were in full swing, 252 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: the owner of a saloon, restaurant and boarding home, a 253 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: fellow named Jacob Vanderpool, was forcibly expelled from the territory, 254 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: not because he did anything wrong, just because he was 255 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: not white. Yeah. That's pretty oh boy, Okay, he was 256 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: literally according to Salem Public Library records, it was literally 257 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: quote reported for the crime of being black in Oregon, 258 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: and Judge Thomas Nelson gave him thirty days to leave 259 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: the territory. Yeah, I'm sorry, I keep pausing because this 260 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: is just like hurting my my brain, UM and my heart. 261 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: In an article from How Stuff Works, we spoke to 262 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: Walita in Marisha, who is a professor in Black Studies 263 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: at Portland State University UM, and she actually travels around 264 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: Oregon kind of working on nurturing some positive connections with 265 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: the African American community and in Oregon, because it's still 266 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: spoiler alert to this day, pretty largely white. But here's 267 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: how she sums up the whole thing. Quote, Oregon was 268 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: birthed at this intersection of being anti slavery and anti black. 269 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: But in no way was Oregon anti slavery because they 270 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 1: believed in racial justice. They were anti slavery because they 271 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: considered this to be white man's land, and they came 272 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: to build a racist white utopia. Their goal was to 273 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: keep out or push out all people of color. Right, 274 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 1: and you will see multiple academics who explain that Portland's 275 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: reputation as a progressive city is, in their opinion, largely 276 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: a myth. Winston Grady Willis, who's director of Portland State 277 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 1: University's School of Gender, Race, and Nations points out that 278 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: as of July, the city had six hundred and twelve thousand, 279 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: two hundred and six people, seventy seven point six percent white, 280 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,240 Speaker 1: five eight percent black, and Grady Willis went on further 281 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: to call it a key site for clan activity. We 282 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: know the clan was very active there in the early 283 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds as well. Yeah, I mean apparently members of 284 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: the clan were actually cops. Yeah, they were deputized. Yeah, 285 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: like like like as though they were sort of a 286 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: para military organization, given the same powers as like law enforcement. Right. 287 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: So not not a pretty scene, but there is good 288 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: news here. This is a story of oppression, but it 289 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: is also a story of inspiration and righteous struggle for 290 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: justice and equality. There there was this great documentary called 291 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: Local Color, which traces the history of racism in Oregon 292 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: and the actions of people who are working for civil 293 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: rights in the area. And of course this you know, 294 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: this center is often on Portland itself, as it is 295 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: the capital city of the state UM And to be honest, folks, 296 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: there are some pretty disturbing stories in that documentary, but 297 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: if you would like to learn more, we highly recommend 298 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: you check it out. It is available for free online, 299 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: So thanks again public television. And so the Fourteenth Amendment happened, um, 300 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: and surprise, surprise, Oregon was one of I think only 301 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: six states in the Union that voted against it. And 302 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: I had forgotten what the fourteenth Amendment is, but it 303 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: is really hella important is what it says, All persons 304 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to 305 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: the jurisdiction thereof our citizen ends of the United States, 306 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: and of the state wherein they reside. Um, no State 307 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the 308 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States. Nor 309 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or 310 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: property without due process of law, nor denied to any 311 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of law. So 312 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 1: this completely neutered these exclusion rules, right, So this was 313 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: passed by Congress in eighteen sixty six, and the explicit 314 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: intention there is to safeguard the rights of recently manumitted 315 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: or freed people in the South, where a lot of 316 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: the white population is working hard to still subjugate them 317 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 1: still somehow practice chattel slavery enforced labor. So Oregon actually 318 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: because it was a divisive issue. Oregon ratified the fourteenth 319 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: Amendment by a very narrow margin in eighteen sixty six, 320 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: with two legislators prote testing that the amendment would quote change, 321 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: if not entirely destroy, the Republican form of government under 322 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: which we live and crush American liberty. They also around 323 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: the same time past law of banning misagenation or interracial marriages. Surelely, Ben, 324 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: there's some sort of fun food fact we can pull 325 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: out now to lighten the mood a little bit. Wait, 326 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: where do we go from here? Well, we have We've 327 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: got one more thing I have to had. There's a 328 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: great paper by Cheryl A. Brooks called Race Politics and Denial. 329 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: Why Oregon forgot to ratify the fourteenth Amendment Because you see, 330 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: although they ratified it in eighteen sixty six, in eighteen 331 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 1: sixty eight, the legislature rescinded that ratification, and they did 332 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: so on a technicality, so they were still in an 333 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: uncertain situation. In fact, these laws, or some version of 334 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: these exclusions laws stayed on the books until what nineteen twenties, Yeah, exactly, 335 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,239 Speaker 1: I think it was like twenty four or something like that. 336 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: It's insane but we do have luckily a happy ending 337 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: progress grinds on. Yeah, except sorry, a guy named Walter Pierce, 338 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: who was a clan member, was elected governor of Oregon. 339 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: And there's this great quote in this article from the 340 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: Washington Post as well that just kind of goes back 341 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: into the history of this talking about how many of 342 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: the Jim Crow laws um that you see in the 343 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: South were kind of encouraged there and like legal Yeah, 344 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: they still try to do de facto acts of oppression 345 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: and segregation. And again, I can't recommend that documentary enough 346 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: because it contains interview It's only about an hour long. 347 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,199 Speaker 1: You can find it through op b dot org. It 348 00:22:54,240 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: contains interviews with people who survived these circumstances. I feel 349 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: like we're almost wrapping up on this, but there are 350 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: a couple more things that we need to mention. Yeah, well, 351 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: just the fact that you know, it's come a long way, obviously, 352 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: and Portland's still does have that reputation as being a 353 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: pretty culturally interesting UM dream of the nineties kind of plays. 354 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: But and even like in the eighties and nineties, especially 355 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: in Portland, it was very dangerous to be UM a 356 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: person of color. This Washington post article mentions the fact 357 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: that it was just a hotbed of skinhead movement and 358 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: white supremacy. And I'm not sure if you've seen the 359 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: movie Green Room that would come. Patrick Stewart plays the 360 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: head of this neo Nazi group that has like a 361 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: punk rock house out in the woods, and it's pretty 362 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: intense and awful and and really really cool, little slice 363 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: of life kind of I don't know, it's a horror 364 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: in that there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens, 365 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: but it's really just more like a very contained, claustrophobic 366 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: movie where it all kind of takes place in this 367 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,959 Speaker 1: one on space Phil Like it's a more almost more 368 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: of a thriller. Yeah, yeah, it's it's so weird seeing 369 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: Patrick Stewart play a psychotic neo not a very restrained, 370 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: subtle performance from Patrick as well, I just call him Patrick, 371 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: but uh yeah, but it's true. It's so Oregon in 372 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties became a destination for 373 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: the largest skinhead movement in the country, according to several scholars, 374 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: and you can see, unfortunately no shortage of stories of 375 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: racially motivated hate crimes. Yeah, there was that guy recently 376 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: who was arrested for I believe, stabbing some people to 377 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: death on a light rail train. Um, when he, uh, 378 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: some folks came to the aid of a African American 379 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: woman and a Muslim woman who he was shouting racial 380 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: epithets at and then he like stabbed several people. And 381 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,320 Speaker 1: this happened like last year. Um. And his name is 382 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: Jeremy Joseph Christian and yeah, when he goes to this hearing, Um, 383 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: he walks into the courtroom and immediately starts rambling and 384 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: saying free speech or die Portland's you call it terrorism, 385 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: I call it patriotism. Right, So the circumstances of this 386 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: event where the following he was shouting religious slurs at 387 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: several people, he fatally stabbed two people and wounded one other. 388 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: This is indefensible. This is very much not what free speeches. 389 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: It isn't strange how some of the most ardent supporters 390 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: of so called free speech completely don't understand what it is. Yeah, no, 391 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: it really is. And and admittedly this guy does seem 392 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: like he's got some um mental illness going on. I'm 393 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: sure that's just me speculating, but um, it's sad, sad case. 394 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: And a sad example of how these kind of attitudes 395 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 1: are around and possibly uh given a little more fuel 396 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,959 Speaker 1: on the fire considering some of the you know, nazi 397 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: neo Nazi marches we're seeing in Charlottesville, and some of 398 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: these attitudes that have may become a little more into 399 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: the forefront of not acceptability, but at least just kind 400 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: of are being a little more mainstream these days. So um, 401 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see where it came from in a 402 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: place like the Pacific Northwest, which might surprise a lot 403 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: of people. The long story short, too late. The exclusion 404 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: clause that we examined today was ultimately removed from Oregon's 405 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: constitution in nineteen seven. However, as we I think I 406 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: pretty clearly established that did not remove the actual practices 407 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: of racial segregation and discrimination. But there's one thing, one 408 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: more thing I think we should add. Because we we've 409 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: been talking about the states, right, we've been talking about 410 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: the territory, we've been talking about the people, but we 411 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,880 Speaker 1: have yet to talk in detail about the I who 412 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: was at the forefront of it all. We've yet to 413 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: talk in detail about Peter Hardeman Burnett, who some would 414 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: call a real bastard. Yeah, and he also managed to 415 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: make it all the way down the Oregon Trail and 416 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: not even get right or die of exposure. Yeah, he 417 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: was just a dick. Well how about this, This is 418 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: a surprise that we Nolan Casey I worked on for 419 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: you all off air. What if we have a little 420 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 1: extra credit? That's right, folks, extra credit the segment where 421 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: and we um get you know, some human person that's 422 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: tangentially familiar with the topic by varying degrees. My favorite 423 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: of late has been the Colonel Gladwin Bowling. Oh boy, man, 424 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: he really he really set the Internet on fire with 425 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: that segment. I love Gladwin. I led him into the 426 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: Facebook group votes. So I hope we're all still cool. 427 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,239 Speaker 1: Did you create a monster? I don't know. I don't know. Well, 428 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: today we have another quite informed gentleman joining us, the 429 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: host of the new house Stuff Work show Behind the Bastards, 430 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: which does deep dives into horrible people throughout history, from 431 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: Saddam Hussein's um hobby writing erotic fiction to Hitler's spanking fetish. 432 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: I Believe Friends and Neighbors, ben If I May, Robert Evans, 433 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: Hey'll Haw's it cracking, man, It's It's it's weird. It's 434 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: just weird. There's been a lot of like silent headshaking 435 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: on this episode, which doesn't really translate super well on 436 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 1: the podcast, but yeah, who knew. Yeah, I mean we're 437 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: talking about Oregon, which is if you like, yeah, if 438 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: you go to like Portland or whatever it seems on 439 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: the up and up. I've spent a lot of the 440 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: last three years in like rural southern Oregon, and it's 441 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: it's a pretty racist place. Like Josephine County where I was, 442 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: is chock full in the Fazis. There are quite a 443 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: lot of them out there, so it's it's it's a 444 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: fascinating place even in the modern day. Oh yeah, yeah, 445 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: tons of them. It's one of the most racist counties 446 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: and one of the highest densities of hate groups anywhere 447 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: in the United States. Chock full of Nazis. As it 448 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: turns out, not a good coffee, no terrible coffee, and 449 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: terrible craft beer that the Nazis make. Yeah. So when 450 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,479 Speaker 1: we when we originally talked off air, Robert, one of 451 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: the things that we were very interested in, both as 452 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: colleagues but also as fans of your show was seeing 453 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: whether there was a specific person associated with the supremacist 454 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,239 Speaker 1: origins of Oregon, kind of setting the tone that we 455 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: could we could learn a little bit more about with you. 456 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: And you found the guy right, Oh my god, I 457 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: sure did I think Peter Burnett? I think Peter was 458 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: his first name. Uh yeah, just a tremendous piece of crap. 459 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: Uh And maybe, like you know, there's a long list 460 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: of of super racist politicians in American history, but he's 461 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: in the running for most racist. Uh he's he's he's 462 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: definitely like in that conversation for sure. Yeah, we set 463 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: him up briefly as just having been the one that 464 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: kind of came up with the idea of these exclusionary 465 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: laws early on before Oregon became a state. And he 466 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: loved this idea so much that he named it after himself, 467 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: the Burnett Lash Law, which um permitted black people who 468 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: refused to leave the state to be given lashes like 469 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: every every six months, six months or something like that. 470 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: And he loved it so much, thought was such a 471 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: genius idea, the Burnett Lash Law. Yeah, he was so 472 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: proud of his his whipping people rule that he stuck 473 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: his name on it, which is a special kind of 474 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: of terrible um, But he was actually like a violent 475 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: jerk way before he went to Oregon. When he was 476 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: still living in Clear Creek, Tennessee, he was a shop owner, 477 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: like a general store owner. He suspected this enslaved black 478 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: man was very now and then breaking into his store 479 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: at night to drink from his whiskey barrel because they 480 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: stored whiskey and barrels back then. It was a it 481 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: was a different time. So he, rather than like taking 482 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: any of the other actions you might take in this situation, 483 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: he sets a trap using a rifle with like a 484 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: string tied to the trigger, tied to the window shutter, 485 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: so that when the guy crawled in in the middle 486 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 1: of the night, this rifle shot him dead. And he 487 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: wasn't charged with the crime because it was an enslaved man, 488 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: and he said he was sorry. But that's like Peter 489 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: Burnett before he gets into politics. They must have had 490 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,960 Speaker 1: like a stand your ground law back in those days too. 491 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: I guess I just don't think they had laws, you know, 492 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: you're talking about the eighteen twenties or whatever, like there 493 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: was no rules. And that's such a cartoonish, uh sort 494 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: of rupe goldberg S kind of contraps. Yeah, he probably 495 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: got the kit from ACME. That's insane. Okay, go on 496 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: give us some more. So one of his early jobs 497 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: before he gets off to Oregon, I think, after he 498 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: murders this guy with a Looney Tunes trap is he's 499 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: a lawyer. And some of his probably the most prominent clients, 500 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: were Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon religion, and all 501 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: of Joseph Smith's you know, apostles or whatever, all of 502 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: his friends because they were on trial for kind of 503 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: sort of fomenting a frontier war that had had broken 504 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: out in and around Mazra. And so he he is 505 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: these guys lawyer, and his main achievement as a lawyer 506 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: seems to be getting the venue changed that the court 507 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: case was being held in. And this venue change allowed 508 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: Joseph Smith and all of his guys to escape and 509 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: run away. Uh and and yeah, so that that's his 510 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: career as a lawyer before he gets on that first 511 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: big wagon train to Oregon for the Great Migration and whatnot. Yeah, 512 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: so y'all already covered. Yeah, he made the last law. 513 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: He made the exclusion law, um, which he was he 514 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: was an abolitionist. But he's like an interesting like we 515 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: we think when we when you hear about abolitionists in 516 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: the pre Civil War area, you usually think about just 517 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: the few people who would have been like on the 518 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: right side of history. But some of them were just 519 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: abolitionists because they were that racist. They were so racist. 520 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 1: And that was Peter Burnett. He was abolitionist that because 521 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: he didn't like the idea of their being black people 522 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: anywhere in his state. Uh. And he thought that slave 523 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: labor was bad for white people. So he was like, 524 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: he wound up the right conclusion, which is that slavery 525 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: was a bad thing, but he wound up there through 526 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: like the most racist chain of logic that he could 527 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: have possibly gotten to, which is always interesting to me. 528 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: That was a sentiment that was big time shared by 529 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: the majority of people in Oregon because they did incorporate 530 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: and become a state. Um, the majority of people voted 531 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: against slavery, but also for ousting all the freed black people. Yeah. 532 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: And I did find when I was doing my research 533 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: that in eighteen forty at least Burnett had two of 534 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: the slaves of his own. And this is back when 535 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: he was living in Missouri, UM. And there's some evidence 536 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: that when he immigrated to Oregon. He tried to bring 537 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: one slave with him, a young girl who drowned in 538 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: the Columbia River during the voyage. So not a lot 539 00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: of It's kind of an enticing piece of like what 540 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: was went on there, but that that's all the infro 541 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 1: I found so far on that, right, because she was 542 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: projected to be somewhere between ten to twenty four or something. Yeah, 543 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: it seems like it might be kind of a creepy 544 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson sort of situation there. Yeah, I suspected that 545 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, So this guy we've talked about, like 546 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: or y'all talked about what he did in Oregon. But 547 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: after he got done in Oregon, this dude moved to 548 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: California and he became in eighteen forty nine the first 549 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: governor of California, of the state of California. So California's 550 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: very first leader as a state in the Union was 551 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: this guy, Peter Burnett, who get a lot of terrible things. 552 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: Maybe my favorite thing he did that isn't terrible was 553 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty he changed Thanksgiving that year from a 554 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Thursday to a Saturday, just because it was better for 555 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: him personally. That year a different day. I mean, I can, 556 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: I can get behind that. It's always weird to me, 557 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: the thanksgivings on a Thursday. Yeah, that that's whimsical. And 558 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: but he also tried to bring racial exclusion to California 559 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: with the Chinese right well, first with black people. Uh, 560 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: he first tried to in his first message to the 561 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: California legislature. He called exclusion um like the first important, 562 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: like an issue of the first importance, the most important 563 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: thing that California could do um because he thought black 564 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: people are going to take jobs from white people and 565 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: that they would be unhappy in California and cause disruption 566 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 1: because they would be second class citizens. Because he wasn't 567 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: gonna let him be anything but second class citizens. So yeah, 568 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: he tried to. There were like a thousand black people 569 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,439 Speaker 1: already in California, many of them free, and he tried 570 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: to have them all kicked out um and to stop 571 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: anymore from settling. And that was too racist for eighteen 572 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: fifties California. So he lost on that, and he wound 573 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: up actually like in eighteen fifty one, quitting being the 574 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: governor over this. Because he tried a couple of times 575 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,839 Speaker 1: to get California to ban black people and they just 576 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. And yeah, I mean there's some pretty 577 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: pretty racist quotes from him I could read, but that's 578 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 1: probably not necessary. Um, but it is fun to note 579 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: that after he was no longer governor and after his 580 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: political career was over. Um, as you know, the world 581 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: continued to advance and modernize in his old age. Yeah, 582 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: his crusade, as you mentioned, was trying to stop the 583 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,279 Speaker 1: Chinese from coming to California. So he was just just 584 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: comprehensively racist across the board every chance he got, which 585 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: is impressive in a terrible way. Yeah, at least you 586 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: can say he was consistent. But honestly, good on you, California. 587 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: For anyone listening who is in the state right now, 588 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 1: I think that speaks very highly to the character of 589 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: the state, even as far back as the eighteen fifties. Uh. 590 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: He he also published an autobiography right at some point. Yeah, 591 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: that that's where he started ranting about Chinese immigration. Yeah, 592 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: but Robert surely he got some sort of amazing come uppense, 593 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: right like burned death and a fire, you know, drowned 594 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: under a suspicious circumstances. Give me something, A fight with 595 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: a locomotive. No, I mean I think he died rich 596 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,959 Speaker 1: and old. He was in his eighties or something. Man, 597 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: that's a bummer right now. It's just way that's what 598 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: always happens with these bastards, right I mean, I bet 599 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: you're seeing that a lot, except you did the Cosby episode. 600 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: He kind of got has come up us. But even 601 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: that's sort of like a pyric victory where it's like 602 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: too little, too late for a guy that's been screwing 603 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: people over for years, you know, unchecked. Yeah, every now 604 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 1: and then you get a Mussolini or a Kaddafi where 605 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: they get dragged down into the street and punished by 606 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 1: the people that they spend decades screwing with. But that's 607 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: almost that almost never happens. Usually they die rich in 608 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: a villa somewhere. I'm really glad that you said this, Robert, 609 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: because I was listening to the Gaddafi episode, which I 610 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: thought was fantastic. Uh, And I'm still preparing myself to 611 00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,839 Speaker 1: check out the Weinstein episode, which is a two parter. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 612 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: that one's a big one. What we'd like to do 613 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: is again, thank you for giving us more insight on 614 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: the life of Peter Hardeman. Burnett screw that guy. Yeah, 615 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: I know, right to them that. But we were wondering 616 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: if you could tell our if you could tell our 617 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: fellow listeners here a little bit more about behind the 618 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: Bastards and what they can expect when they tune into 619 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,799 Speaker 1: your show. Well, I mean, our goal is to tell 620 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 1: you everything you don't know about the very worst people 621 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,800 Speaker 1: in all of history. So you know, you've probably sat 622 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, stoned or whatever in your underpants and watched 623 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: a lot of documentaries about Hitler on the History Channel 624 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 1: over the years, but you probably don't know that he 625 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: based a lot of his military strategies and his like 626 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: attitudes on existence in life on a series of young 627 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 1: adult novels that were basically like the German equivalent of 628 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: Harry Potter back in the eighteen hundreds. Um, you know. 629 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: And and for that matter, while we're on the Savage 630 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: of Novelists, You've probably haven't read Saddam Hussein's romance novels, 631 00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: but I have. And that's one of the things we 632 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: get into in this podcast. I referred to it as 633 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 1: erotic fiction. Was that crows that a bridge too far? No, No, 634 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,280 Speaker 1: it is very erotic. In fact, there's a long passage 635 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: where an elderly woman yells at children about how sexy 636 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: mouths are. So that's it's fun. Yeah, aren't those novels 637 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: in particular, Uh largely considered these meglomaniacal analogies about his 638 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: relationship with the country. Yes, Um, and they're there. It's 639 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: one of those weird things. There's a lot of cases, 640 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: like with the Kims in North Korea, of art being 641 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: credited to dictators who didn't actually make it. Um. Saddam 642 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: definitely wrote these books, and we get into that to 643 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: an extent, but they're like they're a mix of rants 644 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,879 Speaker 1: about modern politics and like utopian fiction. Um. And so 645 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 1: it's like a mix of Saddam screaming at the people 646 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: he hates and trying to set up the ideal government 647 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: that he never quite got to make an Iraq. It's 648 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: it's a really strange insight into what was going on 649 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: in the man's head. That's fascinating. I wanna I want 650 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: to tune in and no spoilers, but could you tell 651 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: us a little bit about some episodes that are coming 652 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: up soon? Yeah, today, right now, there is a new 653 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 1: episode on Paul Manafort, part one of which just dropped 654 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: in part two of which will be up Thursday. So 655 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 1: that's that's a big one. I check that out. And um, 656 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: we've we've been doing an ongoing series about King Leopold 657 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,760 Speaker 1: of Belgium and the Congo and we're recording an episode 658 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: today about what happened after Leopold, who is one of 659 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: the worst people in all the history and doesn't get 660 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: you know, enough acknowledgment for just how terrible he was. 661 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: And we're also recording an episode about the serial killer 662 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: Albert Fish with his one of his descendants. UM, who 663 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: is all comedian in l A today, So that's gonna 664 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: be fun. Oh man, that's fascinating. Yeah, we've got a good, 665 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,160 Speaker 1: good slate. Well, we are going to wrap it up today. 666 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 1: We want to thank you so much for coming on 667 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: the show. Robert Evans Friends and Neighbors, the mastermind behind 668 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 1: one of How Stuff Works newest podcasts, Behind the Bastards. 669 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: If you like our show, you will of this one. 670 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 1: In the meantime. You can find Noel Casey and I 671 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: Robert as well on social media in right, it's everywhere 672 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: all over the place with the Facebook and the Instagram. Uh, 673 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: still working on the Pinterest page. We haven't fun, we 674 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: haven't committed yet, but we'll we'll get their creative differences. 675 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 1: That's true. And you can join our Facebook community at 676 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,479 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, where there's all kinds of memory and fun 677 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: chats going on all the time. Or if you don't 678 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: want to do any of that, you write it's an 679 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: email at ridiculous at how stuff works dot com and 680 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: we'll see you soon.