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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey y'all. Today we're continuing our run of episodes

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Speaker 1: celebrating the release of the Red Hot Chili Pepper's new album,

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Speaker 1: Unlimited Love, produced by Rick Rubin. We left off our

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Speaker 1: episode last week with Anthony Keatis popping in to join

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Speaker 1: Rick's conversation with guitarist John Frushonte. Today we have part

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Speaker 1: two of that conversation between Rick, John and the band's

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Speaker 1: iconic frontman. We'll hear Anthony talk about how some of

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Speaker 1: the new song lyrics came together, the lengths he went

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Speaker 1: to commute to the studio in Hawaii where he and

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Speaker 1: Rick were recording vocals, and both Anthony and John give

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Speaker 1: their accounts of John's third return to the band. This

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Speaker 1: is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm

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Speaker 1: justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin, John Frushonte, and Anthony Keatis.

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Speaker 1: How you feeling, Anthony, You're pretty good. God, It's very

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Speaker 1: nice to see you. I wish this was in person

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Speaker 1: because I've been looking forward to this moment for quite

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Speaker 1: a while, but it's nice to see you on a

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Speaker 1: big screen in front of me in your Shangrila. Anyways. Nice,

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Speaker 1: you look very beautiful there in the in the environment,

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Speaker 1: bringing back good memories of our last endeavor there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: the memories are intense. Um, it's much less crowded here now.

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Speaker 1: My fondest memories are from Kawaii. Yeah, it was incredible.

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Speaker 1: That process was unlike anything I've ever been a part

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Speaker 1: of and necessary. I would have never been able to

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Speaker 1: get that quantity of work finished in any other environment.

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Speaker 1: We've had a good run of interesting places, like I

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Speaker 1: remember us doing vocals at Chateau Marmont for an album,

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Speaker 1: and that was an interesting, you know, unusual circumstance, getting

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Speaker 1: to go there every day and hang out and record.

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Speaker 1: We've had some good ones over the years. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: Laurel Canyon House, the Chateau. John also had a room

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Speaker 1: at the chateau during the writing of Californication, and John

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Speaker 1: and I got a ton of good songwriting done in

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Speaker 1: his room at the chateau. But Kauai was you know.

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Speaker 1: I showed up with this forty some odd tracks of

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Speaker 1: music that I had to write for and figure out

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Speaker 1: melody for and arrangements, and the idea of waking up

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Speaker 1: every day and just taking hours to write and think

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Speaker 1: about lyrics and ride my bike and let melodies come

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Speaker 1: to me and then show up at your humble little

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Speaker 1: abode with not a lot of pressure, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: this pandemic could last for another week, or it could

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Speaker 1: last for ten years. We don't know. But until we're

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Speaker 1: done with this record, we'll just keep showing up to work.

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Speaker 1: And that ambiance was magical. It was great, and it

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Speaker 1: was I feel like we it was probably three or

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Speaker 1: four months easy of just focusing on writing and singing

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Speaker 1: five wow, five months, yeah, close to fifty songs. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of work, it is, and it was so

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Speaker 1: nice to roll up and see you every day and

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Speaker 1: get some of your your calm and your take. And

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Speaker 1: it's nice not to be distracted. You know, in La

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Speaker 1: we have lives and kids and people and traffic and

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Speaker 1: a whole different feeling in the air. These days we

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Speaker 1: did have. I remember we had a few windows where

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Speaker 1: you had to take a boat to get to the

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Speaker 1: house because the road washed out or bridge closed. Remember that,

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Speaker 1: I do. So that was that was once in a

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Speaker 1: few days. It was it was at least a month.

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Speaker 1: And wow, you were super helpful and you're like, no,

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Speaker 1: we're going to figure this out. You know, we have

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Speaker 1: friends that live on the river and you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: use their boat ramp and YadA YadA. And so I

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Speaker 1: was showing up at an off time because the locals

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Speaker 1: had set up a ferry service to cross the river

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Speaker 1: and then these ATVs that would go up the muddy

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Speaker 1: mountain to a road that would access your house. And

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Speaker 1: I was showing up after the ferry had closed, but

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Speaker 1: there were still these food barges with farmers. So in

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Speaker 1: the beginning, I would just jump on a boat full

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Speaker 1: of terror route and literally hundred year old sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, ancient Hawaiian farmers and that barely spoke English

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Speaker 1: because they were of you know, mixed ethnicity and had

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Speaker 1: come over from Asia a long time ago. And and

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Speaker 1: I loved it. I was like, this is really putting

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Speaker 1: me in the right frame of mind to go to work.

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Speaker 1: But then we we pivoted and we got a local

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Speaker 1: surfer to just meet me at the mouth of the

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Speaker 1: river and take me sort of along the coast. And

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Speaker 1: then I had to hike up a hill next to

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Speaker 1: a giant old hotel which was being refurbished, and that

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Speaker 1: was psychedelic and jungle like, and I had to walk

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Speaker 1: through a little mini river on my own and I

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Speaker 1: had a backpack full of lyrics, and you know, running

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Speaker 1: into all kinds of you know, people in bikinis, people

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Speaker 1: that are you know, chopping down trees and forest and

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Speaker 1: so it was kind of epic way to get to work.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember if any if any of the either

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Speaker 1: things that you saw on the boat or on the

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Speaker 1: trip or on the hike worked their way into lyrics

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Speaker 1: at all. So not exactly on the boat ride or

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Speaker 1: that particular walk, but I would, prior to coming to

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Speaker 1: your house every morning, I would ride my bicycle from

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Speaker 1: my house to the end of the road, which was

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Speaker 1: also through rivers and past beautiful trees and mountains. And

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Speaker 1: in the song She's a Lover, which used to be

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Speaker 1: called zapp, I had that song going through my head feverishly.

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Speaker 1: The melody, the music, and that bike ride completely inspired

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Speaker 1: the entire lyric the flowers pink on the tree but

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Speaker 1: if you pick it to see will she be wild

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Speaker 1: and free? Because I used to drive past the tree

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Speaker 1: every day that was covered in pink flowers, and it

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Speaker 1: seemed like a metaphor for a relationship. It's like you

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Speaker 1: admire this thing as it is, but once you try

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Speaker 1: to dominate it or pick it or make it, you know,

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Speaker 1: adhere to your agenda? Will it still be wild and free?

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Speaker 1: Probably not. Let's listen. Let's listen to unlimited Love you

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Speaker 1: up for that? Yeah? Play? What is it? What is

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Speaker 1: it now called? That particular song is called She's a Lover?

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Speaker 1: She's a lover? Can we hear she's a lover? I

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Speaker 1: will think on a chreamer if you pick it to

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Speaker 1: see with the wild and free? You say you wanna piece?

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Speaker 1: Is it for selor polies out after easy bullies outside

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Speaker 1: the world? Within you been to the world, your team,

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Speaker 1: to the breathe, the hume through the sun, to wonder

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Speaker 1: what you want to do today? I'm your favorite kid.

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Speaker 1: Let's be dedicated to the ones with She's so full

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Speaker 1: of learning. She love she love, she love, she love

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Speaker 1: love love. Man where coming? Okay? I will be a

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Speaker 1: tory bet you needing me them when squeezing the mosquee

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Speaker 1: day and when I'm falling asleep, Please get me something

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Speaker 1: to keep me warm and kind of long time to

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Speaker 1: do without your trust to know what out your form?

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Speaker 1: Now is my batter? Less time before? Please look? Can

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Speaker 1: I have a teas? I just want to live your

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Speaker 1: feace any of the day, and I would say your

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Speaker 1: Atlantismanta lover, she love, She's a lover, she love, She's

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Speaker 1: lover on the men in love again, Rive, Amen, in

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Speaker 1: love again, she loves Limon in love again, Love again,

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Speaker 1: love Man, Where man, I will be at all, believe

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Speaker 1: your knee, and where come and sweet and most fee

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Speaker 1: I will be a me. I will, I will. That

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Speaker 1: was great, so much fun to listen to. That guitar

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Speaker 1: solo really put an unstoppable smile on my face. There's

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Speaker 1: a tiny story worth mentioning about that song, which is

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Speaker 1: when we were recording the vocal in Kauai, you were

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Speaker 1: looking at the lyric sheet and much to my surprise,

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Speaker 1: you you isolated the lyric unlimited Love, which really hadn't

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Speaker 1: jumped off the paget at me, I was too involved

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Speaker 1: in too many pages. You're like, that's a really good title,

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Speaker 1: Unlimited Love. I was like, oh you think so, And

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Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a really good title.

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Speaker 1: I was like, okay. I made a mental note, and

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Speaker 1: then I was keeping a small list of possible album titles,

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Speaker 1: of which that was my least favorite. Unlimited Love. It

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Speaker 1: was for me, it was at the bottom of the list.

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Speaker 1: I had these other more Chili pepper esque titles, and

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Speaker 1: when the day came and we were mixing the music

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Speaker 1: and I went to visit John and Flee at the

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Speaker 1: mixed studio in Hollywood. I was like, guys, do you

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Speaker 1: want to hear some possible album titles? And they were

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Speaker 1: like yes, and I read them my favorites and I

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Speaker 1: was like, there's also this title that Rick was kind

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Speaker 1: of keen on, which was Unlimited Love. And both John

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Speaker 1: and Flee were like, oh, well, that's that's the title

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Speaker 1: right there. Like are you sure because these other ones

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Speaker 1: they're very interesting. They're like Nope, nope, Unlimited Love. That's it.

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Speaker 1: It's funny too, because I imagined it as the song title.

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Speaker 1: That's that's what I was. I was that was the

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Speaker 1: pitch was for the song title. Yeah, so then then

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Speaker 1: the pitch became but we can't now, we can't call

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Speaker 1: the song that because we don't want to draw all

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Speaker 1: of the attention to that song, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: something we considered more of an album track than a

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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, look at the song track. Although I must

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Speaker 1: say it sounds good in headphones. So now I'm going

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Speaker 1: to ask John tell me about the process of coming

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Speaker 1: back to the band this time. What tell me about

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Speaker 1: what was the first talk of it this time? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, which time? Which time? For those people who

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Speaker 1: don't know, John left the band, rejoined the band, left

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Speaker 1: the band and has now rejoined the band. So this

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Speaker 1: is the second time you've rejoined, Yeah, second time you've

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Speaker 1: reached joined, second joint. Yeah, yes, yeah. It didn't really

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Speaker 1: talk about it until Flee and I were standing in

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Speaker 1: my kitchen and chat. Had said something to me when

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Speaker 1: I saw him at Flee's wedding. It's like, he misses

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Speaker 1: playing with me. Me and him and Flee should jam sometime.

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Speaker 1: So I mentioned it to Flee and just because you know,

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Speaker 1: practicing guitars something I'm I was always doing even though

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Speaker 1: I'm making electronic music, it seemed like it would be

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Speaker 1: a nice soul cleansing thing to do. And it was

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Speaker 1: within seconds after I suggested that that Flee was like,

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Speaker 1: do you ever think about being in the Red Hot

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Speaker 1: Chili Peppers again? So we started hypothetically discussing the idea.

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Speaker 1: But there were plenty of reservations and things like that,

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Speaker 1: But but Yeah, started to open up the topic then,

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Speaker 1: and then he talked. He said he'd talked to Anthony

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Speaker 1: about it and then, and Anthony seemed to find the

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Speaker 1: idea interesting. So then the three of us got together

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Speaker 1: and talked about it. Then Flee and Chat and I

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Speaker 1: got together and talked about it about a week or

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Speaker 1: two weeks where it was just sort of a possible outcome,

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Speaker 1: but we weren't. I wasn't sure if I was going

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Speaker 1: to do it. They weren't sure if if they were

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Speaker 1: going to do it. It was just we were just

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Speaker 1: trying to talk about it from every angle. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be sure that we were communicating and seeing it

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Speaker 1: from every angle, just to make sure that none of

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Speaker 1: us were going to wind up regretting it later. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember the first time you guys jammed together again,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this new incarnation. Yeah, by then I'm

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Speaker 1: already in the band. That was the thing I was

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Speaker 1: talking about, Well, let's play together and see if the

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Speaker 1: old magic is still there or whatever, you know, But

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Speaker 1: we went right past that. He was just like he

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Speaker 1: wanted to concentrate on the topic of whether or not

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Speaker 1: I was going to actually join. Wow. So yeah, we

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Speaker 1: didn't play together until maybe a month later or something.

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Speaker 1: At rehearsal. So it's so interesting for me to hear

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Speaker 1: what John just said because I was not really privileged

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Speaker 1: to those conversations. And I'm not exactly sure how it

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Speaker 1: lines up, but I will say that John coming back

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Speaker 1: to join and play music with the band was very

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Speaker 1: much in the air, because Flee had not mentioned anything

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Speaker 1: to me at all, not a peep, no, nary a

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00:15:41,196 --> 00:15:44,916
Speaker 1: mention of John f Chantey or that he was communicating

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Speaker 1: with him or even thinking about that as a possibility.

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Speaker 1: I knew that Flee was in a mood, in a

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Speaker 1: disposition where he wasn't feeling his best self in the

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Speaker 1: previous incarnation. For whatever reason. It just like he wasn't

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Speaker 1: he wasn't on fire. And I started getting a sensation

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Speaker 1: that I wonder how John is. I wonder if he

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Speaker 1: would ever think of participating in any way in our music. Again,

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard, I haven't spoken to him, haven't you know,

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Speaker 1: really heard what he's up to. But I just got

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00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:31,156
Speaker 1: this sensation, like, God, it would be really nice if

228
00:16:31,236 --> 00:16:35,116
Speaker 1: John would get involved. And I didn't think that he

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Speaker 1: was interested in joining or playing guitar, but I was like,

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Speaker 1: I wonder if he would like write a co write

231
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Speaker 1: a song or produce a song or I just didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know where to go with this feeling that

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Speaker 1: I had, so I said to Flee, I was like,

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00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:53,316
Speaker 1: when we're when we're done doing what we're doing right now,

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you afterwards. Kind of important.

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Speaker 1: And I was going to bring up this idea of

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Speaker 1: John participating, and he said to me, He's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: I actually have something more important that I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you. And I was like, no, no, no, let

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00:17:07,996 --> 00:17:10,196
Speaker 1: me since I brought it up, I'll just tell you

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00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:12,476
Speaker 1: what I was thinking. He's like, well, I think you're

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00:17:12,516 --> 00:17:14,396
Speaker 1: gonna want to hear what I have to say. I

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00:17:14,516 --> 00:17:16,796
Speaker 1: was like, okay, can it wait until after I tell

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00:17:16,836 --> 00:17:19,956
Speaker 1: you what I was going to say? And basically we

245
00:17:20,076 --> 00:17:22,556
Speaker 1: were both saying the exact same thing at the exact

246
00:17:22,636 --> 00:17:24,916
Speaker 1: same time, which was what do you think about John?

247
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Speaker 1: And when I presented my thing, he's like, well, I

248
00:17:29,876 --> 00:17:32,996
Speaker 1: was thinking of taking a little further and you know,

249
00:17:33,116 --> 00:17:35,956
Speaker 1: maybe saying if he wanted to come back to the band.

250
00:17:35,996 --> 00:17:39,276
Speaker 1: And I was like, what, I don't know? I mean,

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00:17:39,916 --> 00:17:42,676
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, have you spoken to him? Do you

252
00:17:42,716 --> 00:17:44,676
Speaker 1: know where his head's at? Yeah? And He's like, yeah,

253
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Speaker 1: I've actually jammed with him, and I was like, okay, okay,

254
00:17:47,716 --> 00:17:51,076
Speaker 1: I'm a little a little behind here. And that opened

255
00:17:51,116 --> 00:17:56,636
Speaker 1: the door to all of this. And I remember going

256
00:17:56,716 --> 00:17:59,996
Speaker 1: to see John at his house where he lived, where

257
00:18:00,036 --> 00:18:02,196
Speaker 1: he's lived for a long time, where he lived when

258
00:18:02,236 --> 00:18:04,796
Speaker 1: he used to be in the band, and walking in

259
00:18:05,356 --> 00:18:07,476
Speaker 1: and sitting on the couch with him and just trying

260
00:18:07,476 --> 00:18:10,836
Speaker 1: to get a real sense of you know, is this

261
00:18:10,996 --> 00:18:14,276
Speaker 1: coming from a place of love and and creation or

262
00:18:14,356 --> 00:18:17,196
Speaker 1: does he still have a like any kind of bitterness

263
00:18:17,236 --> 00:18:20,756
Speaker 1: towards me or us? And I did not feel any

264
00:18:20,796 --> 00:18:23,716
Speaker 1: of that. I felt a great deal of resolution. I

265
00:18:23,716 --> 00:18:27,596
Speaker 1: don't know if there's ever one hundred percent resolution because

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00:18:27,916 --> 00:18:29,996
Speaker 1: in a way, as people have too many folds in

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00:18:30,036 --> 00:18:33,756
Speaker 1: our brain to like tweak out on stuff. Speaking for myself,

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00:18:34,436 --> 00:18:37,316
Speaker 1: but I felt like whatever sort of animosity or resentment

269
00:18:37,676 --> 00:18:42,676
Speaker 1: or all this stuff had had more or less been resolved.

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Speaker 1: And it felt very nice sitting next to him on

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Speaker 1: the couch. And then he said one thing to me

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Speaker 1: which really made me feel like, this is a done deal.

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Speaker 1: I have no choice. Come what may for better, for worse,

274
00:18:57,316 --> 00:19:01,116
Speaker 1: for a disaster or wonder and He's I don't know

275
00:19:01,156 --> 00:19:02,876
Speaker 1: if he looked at me or if I looked at him,

276
00:19:02,956 --> 00:19:05,356
Speaker 1: or if it was just said, but he said I

277
00:19:05,556 --> 00:19:09,396
Speaker 1: was born to be in this band, and I was

278
00:19:09,476 --> 00:19:13,276
Speaker 1: just I was like, he is telling the truth, and

279
00:19:13,916 --> 00:19:16,196
Speaker 1: there's no fucking way on earth that I'm going to

280
00:19:16,316 --> 00:19:20,636
Speaker 1: stop that from happening or do anything other than get

281
00:19:20,636 --> 00:19:23,356
Speaker 1: out of the way and just let it, let it flow.

282
00:19:24,196 --> 00:19:29,036
Speaker 1: Because if someone feels like that, then that's supposed to be.

283
00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:31,076
Speaker 1: And it was, you know, it was. Of course, it

284
00:19:31,196 --> 00:19:34,916
Speaker 1: was terribly exciting a little bit. It's kind of a

285
00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:38,196
Speaker 1: vulnerable feeling because, like John said, is the old magic

286
00:19:38,316 --> 00:19:41,236
Speaker 1: still there or are we just going to be you know,

287
00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:43,396
Speaker 1: some weird guys in a room trying to make it happen.

288
00:19:44,276 --> 00:19:46,756
Speaker 1: But I guess, you know, I felt more confident that

289
00:19:46,836 --> 00:19:50,436
Speaker 1: I did concerned. And then when we got back together,

290
00:19:50,516 --> 00:19:54,036
Speaker 1: it was so raw and basic and starting from scratch

291
00:19:55,076 --> 00:19:57,876
Speaker 1: that it just felt right. It felt like, oh, you know,

292
00:19:57,996 --> 00:19:59,516
Speaker 1: we we have a lot of work to do to

293
00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:03,276
Speaker 1: like figure this out, but what a nice place to be.

294
00:20:04,316 --> 00:20:09,716
Speaker 1: And you know, John made some really wise suggest in

295
00:20:09,796 --> 00:20:12,236
Speaker 1: the very beginning. He was like, you know, let's learn

296
00:20:12,316 --> 00:20:16,676
Speaker 1: some old blue songs and let's learn some really old

297
00:20:16,796 --> 00:20:20,156
Speaker 1: red hot chili pepper songs. So instead of like, you know,

298
00:20:20,596 --> 00:20:23,956
Speaker 1: trying to get back into where we had left off

299
00:20:24,116 --> 00:20:26,156
Speaker 1: or anything like that, it's like, let's go all the

300
00:20:26,236 --> 00:20:29,236
Speaker 1: way back and just learn, you know, how to play

301
00:20:29,356 --> 00:20:35,596
Speaker 1: some really beautiful, somewhat challenging but basic, you know, rock

302
00:20:35,676 --> 00:20:39,036
Speaker 1: and roll kind of building blocks. And I thought that

303
00:20:39,196 --> 00:20:41,476
Speaker 1: was so smart because I needed to do that. And

304
00:20:41,596 --> 00:20:43,676
Speaker 1: then the rest, the rest of the writing and the

305
00:20:43,796 --> 00:20:47,396
Speaker 1: playing together started to happen way more naturally. And I

306
00:20:47,516 --> 00:20:51,276
Speaker 1: think because John hadn't written a lot of rock music

307
00:20:51,396 --> 00:20:54,956
Speaker 1: songs for quite a while, he had in him a

308
00:20:55,156 --> 00:21:01,196
Speaker 1: reservoir of ideas and chord progressions and arrangements and vocal

309
00:21:01,276 --> 00:21:03,356
Speaker 1: melodies and all these things that he must have been

310
00:21:03,476 --> 00:21:07,156
Speaker 1: kind of quietly keeping in his back pocket. That started

311
00:21:07,236 --> 00:21:11,556
Speaker 1: to flow and and the process was on. It's like

312
00:21:12,596 --> 00:21:16,756
Speaker 1: every time John would bring a gem into practice, you know,

313
00:21:16,916 --> 00:21:20,476
Speaker 1: Flea would feel like, okay, I'll bring a gem, and

314
00:21:20,596 --> 00:21:22,676
Speaker 1: then I would be like, oh, these guys are bringing gems.

315
00:21:22,716 --> 00:21:25,116
Speaker 1: I better, you know, go for a very long drive

316
00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:28,156
Speaker 1: and my Chevy and figure out, you know, something to

317
00:21:28,196 --> 00:21:31,556
Speaker 1: add to the stew, which is, you know, part of

318
00:21:31,596 --> 00:21:36,436
Speaker 1: our creative process, and it felt it felt really natural.

319
00:21:36,556 --> 00:21:42,676
Speaker 1: It felt really natural and like no pretense or you know, expectation.

320
00:21:42,756 --> 00:21:44,916
Speaker 1: It's just like, let's go all the way back to

321
00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:49,156
Speaker 1: the beginning and just start from zero. That that's what

322
00:21:49,276 --> 00:21:51,156
Speaker 1: it was like from my perspective, But I didn't know

323
00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:54,196
Speaker 1: all these other things were going on. It's interesting. That's

324
00:21:54,276 --> 00:21:56,836
Speaker 1: one of the things that I found fascinating about doing

325
00:21:56,916 --> 00:21:58,676
Speaker 1: this podcast is that even when I talk to people

326
00:21:58,716 --> 00:22:01,156
Speaker 1: who I know well, we know each other for thirty years.

327
00:22:01,196 --> 00:22:03,236
Speaker 1: We made our first album together thirty years ago, and

328
00:22:03,356 --> 00:22:07,436
Speaker 1: we even met before that, and in the process of

329
00:22:07,516 --> 00:22:12,116
Speaker 1: talking about stuff, we learn things that we never knew

330
00:22:12,596 --> 00:22:14,436
Speaker 1: about each other. Even though we sit in a room

331
00:22:14,516 --> 00:22:18,116
Speaker 1: together every day, we never really interview each other. We

332
00:22:18,236 --> 00:22:20,596
Speaker 1: never ask questions, we never go back. There's no reason

333
00:22:20,676 --> 00:22:25,196
Speaker 1: to because we're always moving forward. But it's it's fascinating to,

334
00:22:26,276 --> 00:22:29,196
Speaker 1: you know, hear the person who who you're in a

335
00:22:29,236 --> 00:22:32,876
Speaker 1: band with have a different experience leading up to the

336
00:22:32,956 --> 00:22:35,676
Speaker 1: experience of joining than yours, which makes sense because they

337
00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:38,196
Speaker 1: had their own, but all you know is your perspective.

338
00:22:38,836 --> 00:22:42,436
Speaker 1: It's fascinating to talk about these things. And for me,

339
00:22:42,756 --> 00:22:44,276
Speaker 1: it's interesting when I get to talk to people that

340
00:22:44,316 --> 00:22:45,556
Speaker 1: I don't know, but when I talk to people that

341
00:22:45,636 --> 00:22:49,836
Speaker 1: I do know, I learned so much. It's amazing. It's amazing. Well,

342
00:22:49,916 --> 00:22:52,836
Speaker 1: that's part of your gig these days. It's just it's

343
00:22:52,916 --> 00:22:56,276
Speaker 1: crazy because unlimited love. I was there the day that

344
00:22:56,436 --> 00:22:59,636
Speaker 1: you brought in the song, and I had no idea

345
00:22:59,716 --> 00:23:02,796
Speaker 1: that you saw the pink flower from the tree. I

346
00:23:02,836 --> 00:23:04,796
Speaker 1: had no idea that's where the words came from. I

347
00:23:04,836 --> 00:23:08,956
Speaker 1: had no idea. Riding bikes with my son and he

348
00:23:09,236 --> 00:23:10,636
Speaker 1: was probably trying to talk to me, and all I

349
00:23:10,796 --> 00:23:12,916
Speaker 1: was doing was hearing this song play over and over

350
00:23:12,996 --> 00:23:16,036
Speaker 1: again in my in my head. That that thing that

351
00:23:16,116 --> 00:23:18,236
Speaker 1: I said to Anthony about being born to be in

352
00:23:18,276 --> 00:23:20,756
Speaker 1: the band, by the way, like that was something that

353
00:23:20,876 --> 00:23:24,676
Speaker 1: I that I always felt It was said more as

354
00:23:24,756 --> 00:23:28,196
Speaker 1: a statement of fact than any kind of attempt to

355
00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:31,596
Speaker 1: sell myself or something, you know, like no, like yeah,

356
00:23:31,636 --> 00:23:33,996
Speaker 1: it was. It was definitely like a feeling that I

357
00:23:34,116 --> 00:23:35,756
Speaker 1: just had to live with, whether I was going to

358
00:23:36,276 --> 00:23:39,156
Speaker 1: you know, rejoin or not. That was just a reality

359
00:23:39,236 --> 00:23:42,076
Speaker 1: of my existence that it felt like that, that that

360
00:23:42,316 --> 00:23:45,516
Speaker 1: was on a on a universal scale, that was that

361
00:23:45,716 --> 00:23:49,796
Speaker 1: was the purpose to my life, you know, Yeah. Sometimes

362
00:23:49,916 --> 00:23:53,316
Speaker 1: we don't know it until we're outside of it or

363
00:23:53,636 --> 00:23:56,036
Speaker 1: looking back on it that we realized, Oh, yeah, the reason,

364
00:23:57,276 --> 00:23:59,396
Speaker 1: the reason I've been doing this all this times, like

365
00:23:59,436 --> 00:24:02,116
Speaker 1: this is my reason to be alive. This is the

366
00:24:02,196 --> 00:24:04,996
Speaker 1: reason I'm here. I can do other things, yeah, but

367
00:24:05,196 --> 00:24:08,596
Speaker 1: the but my purpose is to do this. And it's

368
00:24:08,596 --> 00:24:11,996
Speaker 1: a great feeling to acknowledge that, you know, like to

369
00:24:12,116 --> 00:24:14,076
Speaker 1: feel it and to know I'm doing it, like I

370
00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:16,316
Speaker 1: get to do it. And on the days when it's

371
00:24:16,356 --> 00:24:20,076
Speaker 1: hard to do, which it's hard sometimes it makes it

372
00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:25,316
Speaker 1: not easier, but it helps the challenge of understanding, well,

373
00:24:25,396 --> 00:24:28,836
Speaker 1: I'm doing my life's work. Even though I don't want

374
00:24:28,876 --> 00:24:31,596
Speaker 1: to go to work today, I'm doing my life's work.

375
00:24:31,636 --> 00:24:34,316
Speaker 1: I get to do this. This is my contribution. I'm

376
00:24:34,396 --> 00:24:36,276
Speaker 1: showing up. I'm going to do the very best I

377
00:24:36,356 --> 00:24:39,756
Speaker 1: possibly can because this is why I'm here. Yeah, And

378
00:24:40,076 --> 00:24:42,276
Speaker 1: it's a great feeling to have. It's a great feeling

379
00:24:42,316 --> 00:24:46,036
Speaker 1: to recognize it. And I think it's a very powerful

380
00:24:47,436 --> 00:24:51,036
Speaker 1: frame when you recognize it, because you can't make it up.

381
00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:54,796
Speaker 1: It's like you recognize you get to eventually recognize it.

382
00:24:54,916 --> 00:24:58,636
Speaker 1: But once you recognize it, it is like a superpower. Yeah,

383
00:24:59,316 --> 00:25:02,956
Speaker 1: because there's ways, you know, I love challenging myself in

384
00:25:03,036 --> 00:25:05,436
Speaker 1: different ways in life, whether it's with a type of

385
00:25:05,476 --> 00:25:09,436
Speaker 1: book that's difficult for me, or whether it's learning music

386
00:25:09,516 --> 00:25:14,316
Speaker 1: that's beyond a little beyond my ability or whatever. But

387
00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:18,956
Speaker 1: there's something about being in the band that it feels

388
00:25:18,956 --> 00:25:22,636
Speaker 1: like I'm trying from a place that doesn't require that

389
00:25:22,916 --> 00:25:26,516
Speaker 1: much effort. I can be exactly what I am and

390
00:25:26,836 --> 00:25:31,676
Speaker 1: try specifically within that set of limitations and not try

391
00:25:31,756 --> 00:25:35,796
Speaker 1: to push myself outside of them. But I can get it.

392
00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:37,516
Speaker 1: I can be in touch with the part of myself

393
00:25:37,596 --> 00:25:39,996
Speaker 1: that was there when I was five years old, six

394
00:25:40,116 --> 00:25:42,676
Speaker 1: years old. That's the energy that can go into the band.

395
00:25:42,716 --> 00:25:45,916
Speaker 1: I don't have to try to be something that's taken

396
00:25:45,956 --> 00:25:48,636
Speaker 1: a lot of effort, like I have to just be

397
00:25:48,796 --> 00:25:51,036
Speaker 1: in touch with it feels like with the essence of

398
00:25:51,116 --> 00:25:54,756
Speaker 1: who I am. It's beautiful. Yeah, And it probably speaks

399
00:25:54,836 --> 00:25:57,316
Speaker 1: to the longevity, like when you're not trying to be

400
00:25:57,476 --> 00:26:00,556
Speaker 1: something that you're not, you can just do it for

401
00:26:00,676 --> 00:26:04,276
Speaker 1: a lifetime because that's what you are. And just just

402
00:26:04,476 --> 00:26:09,036
Speaker 1: to be transparent about a conversation on the couch before

403
00:26:09,196 --> 00:26:11,036
Speaker 1: you joined the band. I think one of the reasons

404
00:26:11,116 --> 00:26:14,676
Speaker 1: that it was such a successful conversation is nobody was

405
00:26:14,716 --> 00:26:18,156
Speaker 1: trying to sell anybody anything, Like I wasn't trying to

406
00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:20,396
Speaker 1: convince you to do something. You weren't trying to convince

407
00:26:20,476 --> 00:26:23,756
Speaker 1: me to do something. We were just you know, putting

408
00:26:23,836 --> 00:26:28,076
Speaker 1: it out for what it was. And when I share

409
00:26:28,116 --> 00:26:31,196
Speaker 1: that very intimate story, it's it's it's out of like

410
00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:36,396
Speaker 1: love and emotion. Because that really struck a chord inside

411
00:26:36,436 --> 00:26:38,316
Speaker 1: of me when you said that, it wasn't like he's

412
00:26:38,316 --> 00:26:40,276
Speaker 1: trying to talk me into something. It was like he's

413
00:26:40,356 --> 00:26:43,476
Speaker 1: being honest with me, and he's telling me something that's

414
00:26:43,596 --> 00:26:47,956
Speaker 1: at the essence of his core and it's the truth.

415
00:26:48,036 --> 00:26:51,476
Speaker 1: And you know, that was just something that it meant

416
00:26:51,516 --> 00:26:53,636
Speaker 1: a lot to me that you were, you know, willing

417
00:26:53,716 --> 00:26:56,676
Speaker 1: to tell me that, and I certainly didn't feel like

418
00:26:56,716 --> 00:27:00,996
Speaker 1: you were trying to sell me anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah.

419
00:27:01,076 --> 00:27:05,436
Speaker 1: There's there's a feeling of comfort for me with Anthony

420
00:27:05,476 --> 00:27:08,516
Speaker 1: and Fleet that I really don't have with anybody else.

421
00:27:09,556 --> 00:27:11,236
Speaker 1: I think it has to do with so many things.

422
00:27:11,276 --> 00:27:14,436
Speaker 1: It has to do with with going to that depth

423
00:27:14,516 --> 00:27:18,436
Speaker 1: of musical connection and many at so many different times,

424
00:27:19,236 --> 00:27:21,076
Speaker 1: and it might also have something to do with the

425
00:27:21,156 --> 00:27:23,676
Speaker 1: fact that we went from being a club band to

426
00:27:23,756 --> 00:27:27,996
Speaker 1: playing arenas together and nobody but us shared that experience,

427
00:27:28,276 --> 00:27:30,516
Speaker 1: you know, which is a pretty real thing because that

428
00:27:30,636 --> 00:27:33,236
Speaker 1: can make you feel very separate from other people. And

429
00:27:33,436 --> 00:27:36,196
Speaker 1: so even if you're at odds with each other or

430
00:27:36,996 --> 00:27:40,516
Speaker 1: going through some sort of personal disconnection, you're connected in

431
00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:43,916
Speaker 1: this deep way despite all of it. It's impossible to

432
00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:47,436
Speaker 1: have that kind of connection with with anybody else. You know,

433
00:27:48,956 --> 00:27:51,596
Speaker 1: whether Anthony and I have talked over periods of time,

434
00:27:51,716 --> 00:27:55,076
Speaker 1: he's always I'm always aware that like that who I

435
00:27:55,156 --> 00:27:59,156
Speaker 1: am and what every every detail of my life the

436
00:27:59,316 --> 00:28:02,276
Speaker 1: result of it. It is the result of that connection

437
00:28:02,596 --> 00:28:04,516
Speaker 1: that I have as a soul with him and with

438
00:28:04,716 --> 00:28:08,116
Speaker 1: Flee and with Chad. You know, it always felt like

439
00:28:08,196 --> 00:28:10,516
Speaker 1: they were close to me. And sometimes that's a painful

440
00:28:10,596 --> 00:28:14,996
Speaker 1: feeling because because you realize that that in some ways

441
00:28:15,556 --> 00:28:18,676
Speaker 1: you were at fault in a certain area of the relationship,

442
00:28:18,836 --> 00:28:21,316
Speaker 1: or in some ways at a different time, you might

443
00:28:21,396 --> 00:28:23,596
Speaker 1: be bitter and see that it's the other person's fault.

444
00:28:23,956 --> 00:28:26,956
Speaker 1: But when you put all those kind of blame things

445
00:28:26,996 --> 00:28:29,636
Speaker 1: aside and just live with the reality of what it

446
00:28:29,876 --> 00:28:33,716
Speaker 1: was that I have a closeness with those people. That's

447
00:28:33,716 --> 00:28:36,196
Speaker 1: its own thing that's completely separate from all other human

448
00:28:36,276 --> 00:28:39,156
Speaker 1: relationships I could possibly have on this earth. I will

449
00:28:39,196 --> 00:28:42,156
Speaker 1: add even to go even further that in addition to

450
00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:45,076
Speaker 1: it being unlike any relationship you could have with anyone else,

451
00:28:45,676 --> 00:28:51,996
Speaker 1: it's probably unlike a relationship that anyone else can even understand. Right,

452
00:28:52,276 --> 00:28:57,476
Speaker 1: that's how unique being in a band on and off

453
00:28:57,516 --> 00:28:59,876
Speaker 1: for thirty years with a group of people and going

454
00:28:59,996 --> 00:29:05,356
Speaker 1: to those emotional places of creation together. Yeah, you make

455
00:29:05,396 --> 00:29:07,916
Speaker 1: yourself so vulnerable when you do it, especially if you

456
00:29:08,036 --> 00:29:09,996
Speaker 1: try to dig deep into yourself in the way that

457
00:29:10,116 --> 00:29:13,516
Speaker 1: we always have, you make yourself so vulnerable to the

458
00:29:13,556 --> 00:29:15,356
Speaker 1: rest of the world. It's only with each other that

459
00:29:15,476 --> 00:29:19,036
Speaker 1: you have this level of comfort. And sometimes that means

460
00:29:19,236 --> 00:29:22,636
Speaker 1: that you have some sort of an ugly outburst with

461
00:29:22,756 --> 00:29:25,396
Speaker 1: each other, and sometimes it means that you have the funniest,

462
00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:28,476
Speaker 1: funnest times that you could have with anybody. It's a

463
00:29:28,596 --> 00:29:31,636
Speaker 1: level of closeness that I mean, I guess family is

464
00:29:31,676 --> 00:29:33,516
Speaker 1: the only thing that I could really compare it to,

465
00:29:33,796 --> 00:29:37,156
Speaker 1: But but it's so much more limited than family because

466
00:29:37,196 --> 00:29:40,236
Speaker 1: it's really just those four people you know. Well, I

467
00:29:40,556 --> 00:29:43,716
Speaker 1: would just for a moment like to speak to what

468
00:29:43,876 --> 00:29:49,916
Speaker 1: John just said briefly, because that was really very clearly expressed.

469
00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:53,676
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's hard to put words to those experiences

470
00:29:53,716 --> 00:29:57,276
Speaker 1: and those feelings of having the brotherhood and the friendship

471
00:29:57,316 --> 00:30:01,196
Speaker 1: and the experience of being in a band, because it's

472
00:30:01,236 --> 00:30:05,396
Speaker 1: certainly something like you with your biological family, whether you

473
00:30:05,516 --> 00:30:08,756
Speaker 1: like them or not, or love them or not, you

474
00:30:08,836 --> 00:30:13,476
Speaker 1: can never really quit it because there's this biological connection

475
00:30:13,716 --> 00:30:18,356
Speaker 1: and the dynamic of parents and children and brothers and sisters.

476
00:30:18,476 --> 00:30:21,396
Speaker 1: It's like you may want to divorce yourself, but really

477
00:30:21,556 --> 00:30:25,436
Speaker 1: there's a there's an invisible tether word you can't. And

478
00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:29,076
Speaker 1: and the same as kind of true for the family

479
00:30:29,156 --> 00:30:33,756
Speaker 1: that you choose when you have a deep, lifelong experience

480
00:30:33,836 --> 00:30:36,956
Speaker 1: with Like like John said, even when we were not

481
00:30:37,876 --> 00:30:41,636
Speaker 1: in a band together, our destinies and our lives are

482
00:30:41,756 --> 00:30:46,076
Speaker 1: completely shaped by one another forever for you know, lots

483
00:30:46,116 --> 00:30:49,956
Speaker 1: of good purposes. But when John had left the band,

484
00:30:50,036 --> 00:30:52,916
Speaker 1: most recently for a large chunk of time, you know,

485
00:30:52,996 --> 00:30:58,196
Speaker 1: over ten years, it never left my reality or my

486
00:30:58,276 --> 00:31:04,716
Speaker 1: awareness that everything I was doing was largely and part

487
00:31:04,756 --> 00:31:08,476
Speaker 1: of what John had contributed to my life. So whether

488
00:31:08,516 --> 00:31:10,796
Speaker 1: I was right music or whether I was going on

489
00:31:10,916 --> 00:31:13,836
Speaker 1: tour without John. Every time we had that experience, I

490
00:31:13,996 --> 00:31:16,036
Speaker 1: was like, I would not be here if if not

491
00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:19,716
Speaker 1: for my experience with John, and you know, my successes

492
00:31:19,796 --> 00:31:23,916
Speaker 1: and failures and everything in between. I was always had

493
00:31:23,916 --> 00:31:27,436
Speaker 1: an awareness that, you know, John is a part of

494
00:31:27,516 --> 00:31:30,036
Speaker 1: why this is happening. And there was always a sense

495
00:31:30,076 --> 00:31:33,716
Speaker 1: of gratitude that came along with that, because there is

496
00:31:33,796 --> 00:31:39,996
Speaker 1: a weird, beautiful nonverbal closeness that comes with playing music

497
00:31:40,076 --> 00:31:43,076
Speaker 1: with somebody. And sometimes I watched John jam with Chad

498
00:31:44,116 --> 00:31:47,436
Speaker 1: and what they share together in that moment where nobody's

499
00:31:47,476 --> 00:31:50,876
Speaker 1: talking but they're just playing. I'm like, oh my god.

500
00:31:50,956 --> 00:31:55,556
Speaker 1: They have like a relationship that's based on sound and

501
00:31:55,676 --> 00:31:57,676
Speaker 1: it fills their hearts. And the same thing when John

502
00:31:57,796 --> 00:32:02,676
Speaker 1: is playing with Flee, you know that intercommunication of melody

503
00:32:02,756 --> 00:32:06,836
Speaker 1: and everything. It's it's as profound as any other you know,

504
00:32:06,996 --> 00:32:11,316
Speaker 1: verbal communication, or going a chip together, having a sandwich together.

505
00:32:11,396 --> 00:32:16,796
Speaker 1: It's like they bond so heavily over that moment where

506
00:32:17,356 --> 00:32:19,196
Speaker 1: no words need to be spoken, but we're just in

507
00:32:19,316 --> 00:32:24,316
Speaker 1: this invisible space improvising together. And I look at them like, damn,

508
00:32:24,996 --> 00:32:28,916
Speaker 1: you know that is a connection, a real powerful connection.

509
00:32:29,596 --> 00:32:33,716
Speaker 1: So yes, John, I want you to know that whenever

510
00:32:33,836 --> 00:32:36,396
Speaker 1: we're a part and I'm doing music and like, I

511
00:32:36,596 --> 00:32:40,636
Speaker 1: never forget you. Yeah. Yeah. I also I also want

512
00:32:40,676 --> 00:32:43,436
Speaker 1: to explain one thing that relates to what you're talking about,

513
00:32:43,476 --> 00:32:46,716
Speaker 1: which is this band is not a band who comes

514
00:32:46,756 --> 00:32:49,636
Speaker 1: in and plays their parts. This is a band that

515
00:32:50,276 --> 00:32:54,636
Speaker 1: are always looking at and communicating with each other musically,

516
00:32:55,076 --> 00:32:58,356
Speaker 1: much more like jazz. Even though the form isn't jazz,

517
00:32:59,436 --> 00:33:03,836
Speaker 1: the relationships are more like the way jazz players interact.

518
00:33:04,116 --> 00:33:06,956
Speaker 1: It's a different thing. So we think of a rock

519
00:33:07,076 --> 00:33:10,356
Speaker 1: band or a funk band as people who play their parts.

520
00:33:10,796 --> 00:33:16,156
Speaker 1: That's not what this is. This is a much more organic, dynamic,

521
00:33:16,756 --> 00:33:21,516
Speaker 1: living thing that comes from you guys playing together. And

522
00:33:21,636 --> 00:33:25,156
Speaker 1: I think that that's it's helpful for people to understand.

523
00:33:26,276 --> 00:33:28,516
Speaker 1: It'll make sense the things that you're saying makes sense

524
00:33:28,596 --> 00:33:32,236
Speaker 1: when you understand this is not people playing their parts together.

525
00:33:32,436 --> 00:33:36,236
Speaker 1: That's not what this is. It's a communication and an

526
00:33:36,356 --> 00:33:41,116
Speaker 1: interaction all the time between the members. Yeah, it often

527
00:33:41,196 --> 00:33:44,836
Speaker 1: feels to me like like Flees bass part makes my

528
00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:47,316
Speaker 1: guitar part. It doesn't feel like I'm coming up with

529
00:33:47,516 --> 00:33:50,316
Speaker 1: something to go with what he's doing. It feels like

530
00:33:50,836 --> 00:33:53,396
Speaker 1: there's a guitar part attached to his bass part, and

531
00:33:53,476 --> 00:33:55,876
Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to play. And the same thing

532
00:33:55,916 --> 00:33:58,316
Speaker 1: has happened with Chad playing a drumbeat, just walking into

533
00:33:58,396 --> 00:34:01,956
Speaker 1: rehearsal playing a drum beat, like we had that song Stadium, Arcadium.

534
00:34:01,996 --> 00:34:04,396
Speaker 1: I remember clearly he was playing that drum beat I

535
00:34:04,476 --> 00:34:06,396
Speaker 1: walked into the studio. That was the guitar part that

536
00:34:06,516 --> 00:34:08,916
Speaker 1: was attached to it. It wasn't something I'd come up

537
00:34:08,956 --> 00:34:12,996
Speaker 1: with or contrived. And in the same way, like no

538
00:34:13,156 --> 00:34:16,276
Speaker 1: matter how far along a song is instrumentally, it's never

539
00:34:16,356 --> 00:34:19,996
Speaker 1: till Anthony comes in with the vocals that, now, all

540
00:34:19,996 --> 00:34:22,996
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I know what to do when it

541
00:34:23,196 --> 00:34:25,556
Speaker 1: changes the guitar part in all kinds of ways, And

542
00:34:25,676 --> 00:34:28,676
Speaker 1: that happens immediately the first time he sings it. All

543
00:34:28,716 --> 00:34:32,436
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the guitar part becomes fully formed and

544
00:34:32,796 --> 00:34:35,916
Speaker 1: in the context of the whole song, and it's just

545
00:34:36,076 --> 00:34:39,956
Speaker 1: this immediate thing. So it happens in the songwriting process,

546
00:34:40,036 --> 00:34:44,836
Speaker 1: it happens in improvisation, but it never feels like it's

547
00:34:44,836 --> 00:34:48,356
Speaker 1: a decision about, Okay, how would I like to approach this.

548
00:34:48,476 --> 00:34:51,556
Speaker 1: It's always it's always as if the other members formed

549
00:34:51,716 --> 00:34:54,396
Speaker 1: whatever it is that I'm doing, which I think for

550
00:34:54,556 --> 00:34:58,916
Speaker 1: jazz musicians, the good ones who were great listeners, that's

551
00:34:58,956 --> 00:35:01,316
Speaker 1: how it was for them. They're not super concerned with

552
00:35:01,436 --> 00:35:03,836
Speaker 1: what they're doing. They're listening to the whole thing, and

553
00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:09,036
Speaker 1: there's this automatic response that's made by the bigger context.

554
00:35:09,636 --> 00:35:11,756
Speaker 1: I remember when Chad was playing that drumbeat, and I

555
00:35:11,796 --> 00:35:15,316
Speaker 1: remember when you started playing guitar to stadium arcadium right

556
00:35:15,436 --> 00:35:19,036
Speaker 1: at the alley. Yeah, it was a good feeling. Yeah,

557
00:35:19,276 --> 00:35:20,716
Speaker 1: I was like, let me, let me just record this

558
00:35:20,796 --> 00:35:22,876
Speaker 1: real quick. We have to take a quick break and

559
00:35:22,956 --> 00:35:25,996
Speaker 1: then we'll be back with more from Anthony Keatis, John Fuschante,

560
00:35:26,316 --> 00:35:32,756
Speaker 1: and Rick Rubin. We're back with more from Rick Rubin's

561
00:35:32,756 --> 00:35:36,316
Speaker 1: conversation with Anthony Keatis and John Fuschante. We're talking about

562
00:35:36,396 --> 00:35:40,436
Speaker 1: jamming at the North Hollywood rehearsal space, the Alley. I

563
00:35:40,516 --> 00:35:42,596
Speaker 1: want to tell a quick story about one of the

564
00:35:42,676 --> 00:35:45,276
Speaker 1: things that happened at the Alley that was always entertaining

565
00:35:45,356 --> 00:35:47,316
Speaker 1: for me was when we'd be working on a song

566
00:35:47,476 --> 00:35:50,116
Speaker 1: and there was we needed a new part and there

567
00:35:50,116 --> 00:35:53,156
Speaker 1: would be the face off where we would have we'd

568
00:35:53,196 --> 00:35:55,596
Speaker 1: have a whole song, except there'd be a missing element,

569
00:35:56,396 --> 00:35:59,676
Speaker 1: and John and Flee would walk to the center of

570
00:35:59,676 --> 00:36:02,236
Speaker 1: the room, press their faces together, kind of like angry

571
00:36:02,316 --> 00:36:04,996
Speaker 1: boxers before a match, and then they would both retreat,

572
00:36:05,436 --> 00:36:07,396
Speaker 1: and then a few minutes later they would both come

573
00:36:07,476 --> 00:36:12,276
Speaker 1: back with the idea of what a new part could be,

574
00:36:13,036 --> 00:36:17,596
Speaker 1: and it was always interesting. They were always radically different,

575
00:36:17,716 --> 00:36:20,556
Speaker 1: and more often than not, both of the new parts

576
00:36:20,676 --> 00:36:23,036
Speaker 1: made it into the song, maybe one as a chorus,

577
00:36:23,116 --> 00:36:25,076
Speaker 1: one as a bridge, one as an outro, but it

578
00:36:25,236 --> 00:36:28,996
Speaker 1: was not unusual for both parts to make it. Sometimes

579
00:36:29,036 --> 00:36:35,276
Speaker 1: one would just win the original solution to the problem,

580
00:36:35,396 --> 00:36:37,316
Speaker 1: but sometimes both would work their way, and it was

581
00:36:37,396 --> 00:36:41,156
Speaker 1: always funny to see the cartoon aspect of the faces

582
00:36:41,196 --> 00:36:44,996
Speaker 1: coming together making a mean face and then retreating to

583
00:36:45,076 --> 00:36:48,076
Speaker 1: make their music. When we were writing Mother's Milk, when

584
00:36:48,116 --> 00:36:50,596
Speaker 1: DH was in the band, that's when we first started

585
00:36:50,636 --> 00:36:53,876
Speaker 1: doing those face offs, and it was this brand new

586
00:36:54,036 --> 00:36:56,636
Speaker 1: musical skill that I was having to learn how to develop.

587
00:36:56,956 --> 00:36:59,036
Speaker 1: You know, did you guys do those before I was

588
00:36:59,076 --> 00:37:05,116
Speaker 1: in the band, Anthony not as such? Like there may

589
00:37:05,196 --> 00:37:08,916
Speaker 1: have been a much more subtle variation on that theme.

590
00:37:09,356 --> 00:37:13,596
Speaker 1: Nothing as defined as we're gonna go face to face,

591
00:37:14,196 --> 00:37:16,836
Speaker 1: We're gonna go in separate, like I'll go outside, you

592
00:37:16,916 --> 00:37:21,396
Speaker 1: stay inside, and then in five minutes, whatever happened happened,

593
00:37:21,436 --> 00:37:25,076
Speaker 1: and it's time to get down to breast acts. Yeah.

594
00:37:25,196 --> 00:37:28,396
Speaker 1: So I've never I've never written from that perspective of

595
00:37:28,556 --> 00:37:31,276
Speaker 1: like there's a song, but it's incomplete, we need a chorus,

596
00:37:31,956 --> 00:37:35,116
Speaker 1: write one in five minutes, you know. So yeah, it

597
00:37:36,476 --> 00:37:38,636
Speaker 1: By the time of Blood Sugar, I was better at it,

598
00:37:38,796 --> 00:37:41,116
Speaker 1: like for a while, like it seemed like Flea was

599
00:37:41,196 --> 00:37:44,356
Speaker 1: really like like so far ahead of me in terms

600
00:37:44,396 --> 00:37:46,876
Speaker 1: of just being able to do some automatic, awesome thing

601
00:37:47,276 --> 00:37:50,276
Speaker 1: because yeah, you get to learn like what's you know,

602
00:37:50,396 --> 00:37:52,596
Speaker 1: what's going to really connect with people in the room.

603
00:37:52,676 --> 00:37:54,956
Speaker 1: A lot of the time, it's the simplest thing you

604
00:37:54,996 --> 00:37:58,156
Speaker 1: could do. It's not something you need to try super hard,

605
00:37:59,156 --> 00:38:02,436
Speaker 1: you know, for you need to make something that's going

606
00:38:02,516 --> 00:38:04,556
Speaker 1: to make it possible for the other people to come

607
00:38:04,636 --> 00:38:07,196
Speaker 1: up with cool parts. Like and I think initially I

608
00:38:07,356 --> 00:38:09,676
Speaker 1: was thinking of it too egocentrically. I was thinking of

609
00:38:09,756 --> 00:38:11,836
Speaker 1: it is what's a part that's going to dazzle people?

610
00:38:12,316 --> 00:38:15,436
Speaker 1: And the better way to think of it is what's

611
00:38:15,436 --> 00:38:16,916
Speaker 1: a part that those guys are going to say that

612
00:38:16,956 --> 00:38:20,156
Speaker 1: Anthony would want to write to that. Chad and Flee

613
00:38:20,196 --> 00:38:22,836
Speaker 1: are going to come up with good parts too. Let's

614
00:38:22,836 --> 00:38:24,996
Speaker 1: talk about the new album. Whoever wants to start? And Anthony,

615
00:38:24,996 --> 00:38:26,396
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I just cut you off. What will you

616
00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:27,876
Speaker 1: say now? That's all right, that's all right. I was

617
00:38:27,916 --> 00:38:31,756
Speaker 1: just gonna say, it's a pretty exciting moment when you

618
00:38:31,876 --> 00:38:35,716
Speaker 1: get to listen to the face off materials, and like

619
00:38:35,916 --> 00:38:39,316
Speaker 1: you said, more often than not, they all have value.

620
00:38:39,356 --> 00:38:42,436
Speaker 1: And sometimes one of the contestants would come back with

621
00:38:42,556 --> 00:38:46,196
Speaker 1: two or three ideas, and several of these ideas would

622
00:38:46,916 --> 00:38:50,156
Speaker 1: make their way into that song or some other song.

623
00:38:50,316 --> 00:38:54,036
Speaker 1: But I'm interested to hear what John has to say

624
00:38:54,076 --> 00:39:00,996
Speaker 1: about the early phase one of writing Unlimited Love. It

625
00:39:01,156 --> 00:39:03,836
Speaker 1: was interesting for me because there is definitely about a

626
00:39:03,956 --> 00:39:07,356
Speaker 1: ten year period where everything I did with the guitar

627
00:39:08,196 --> 00:39:12,876
Speaker 1: was in learning other people's music. I've been making progress

628
00:39:12,996 --> 00:39:16,796
Speaker 1: doing that since I was ten years old, and I

629
00:39:16,916 --> 00:39:21,196
Speaker 1: never stopped making that progress. As far as some artists

630
00:39:21,236 --> 00:39:23,276
Speaker 1: where it was hard for me to understand what they

631
00:39:23,316 --> 00:39:25,636
Speaker 1: were doing, and like, I didn't really get my head

632
00:39:25,676 --> 00:39:27,956
Speaker 1: around the Beatles until I was in my early thirties,

633
00:39:28,116 --> 00:39:30,516
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really start to get my head

634
00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:34,116
Speaker 1: around Genesis until I was in my late thirties. There's

635
00:39:34,156 --> 00:39:37,076
Speaker 1: certain artists who were really challenging, you know. For that

636
00:39:37,236 --> 00:39:40,396
Speaker 1: year before I rejoined, this time, Charlie Christian. I was

637
00:39:41,196 --> 00:39:44,036
Speaker 1: obsessed with his playing, and I learned every solo that

638
00:39:44,196 --> 00:39:48,316
Speaker 1: he recorded just about and that was actually some of

639
00:39:48,396 --> 00:39:52,076
Speaker 1: Fleet and mis jamming the year before was playing Benny

640
00:39:52,156 --> 00:39:56,036
Speaker 1: Goodman Charlie Christian tunes together. So I'd been practicing a lot,

641
00:39:56,196 --> 00:40:00,156
Speaker 1: but I'd stopped making I'd stopped making rock music, and

642
00:40:01,076 --> 00:40:04,036
Speaker 1: what guitar playing I had done in my music was

643
00:40:04,116 --> 00:40:06,236
Speaker 1: meant to be as different from what I did in

644
00:40:06,276 --> 00:40:09,396
Speaker 1: the Chili Peppers as it could possibly be when we

645
00:40:09,676 --> 00:40:11,716
Speaker 1: when we started writing, it was interesting because though I

646
00:40:11,756 --> 00:40:14,796
Speaker 1: hadn't tried to write rock music for a long time,

647
00:40:15,436 --> 00:40:18,276
Speaker 1: I had built up all this new all these new

648
00:40:18,316 --> 00:40:22,156
Speaker 1: ways of seeing the guitar and new ways of seeing

649
00:40:22,236 --> 00:40:26,036
Speaker 1: chord changes that weren't part of my vocabulary in the

650
00:40:26,116 --> 00:40:28,796
Speaker 1: other times i'd been in the band. You know, Normally,

651
00:40:29,796 --> 00:40:33,596
Speaker 1: practicing guitar and playing in the band had been an

652
00:40:33,676 --> 00:40:37,436
Speaker 1: everyday balance, and at one had always fed the other.

653
00:40:37,676 --> 00:40:40,436
Speaker 1: You know, my every song I wrote in the band

654
00:40:40,556 --> 00:40:43,036
Speaker 1: was generally inspired by something I'd learned on a CD,

655
00:40:43,996 --> 00:40:46,556
Speaker 1: but now there was this ten year period where I'd

656
00:40:46,596 --> 00:40:50,756
Speaker 1: been taking in all the information without doing anything with

657
00:40:50,876 --> 00:40:54,636
Speaker 1: it because my expression was on machines and computers and

658
00:40:56,276 --> 00:40:59,236
Speaker 1: not through the guitar. So that was another reason why

659
00:40:59,556 --> 00:41:01,836
Speaker 1: I was a lot more comfortable starting out playing other

660
00:41:01,916 --> 00:41:04,436
Speaker 1: people's music, because I didn't want to force anything, and

661
00:41:04,476 --> 00:41:06,956
Speaker 1: I didn't want anything to I didn't want to feel

662
00:41:06,996 --> 00:41:09,276
Speaker 1: that pressure of having to live up to what we've

663
00:41:09,316 --> 00:41:13,436
Speaker 1: done before. As time goes by and I'm playing along

664
00:41:13,516 --> 00:41:15,756
Speaker 1: with music that I'd like to be influenced by and

665
00:41:16,796 --> 00:41:19,436
Speaker 1: remembering what this feels like to play with these people,

666
00:41:20,036 --> 00:41:23,916
Speaker 1: playing the early Chili Pepper songs and cover tunes, stuff

667
00:41:24,036 --> 00:41:25,796
Speaker 1: is going to start to come out and I'll start

668
00:41:26,196 --> 00:41:29,876
Speaker 1: to want to write for this context. And so yeah,

669
00:41:30,356 --> 00:41:35,596
Speaker 1: songs started coming out slowly, and gradually we phased out

670
00:41:35,756 --> 00:41:39,396
Speaker 1: the playing other people's songs and playing early Chili Pepper

671
00:41:39,516 --> 00:41:43,436
Speaker 1: songs and writing music came out pretty steady. It was

672
00:41:43,476 --> 00:41:46,476
Speaker 1: a certain way of listening to music that I hadn't

673
00:41:46,516 --> 00:41:48,316
Speaker 1: done for a long time, which is play along with

674
00:41:48,516 --> 00:41:51,396
Speaker 1: things that are going to inspire you to come up

675
00:41:51,436 --> 00:41:54,356
Speaker 1: with guitar parts. When you're playing when you're jamming with

676
00:41:54,476 --> 00:41:57,196
Speaker 1: the band, and yeah, we just kept writing songs and

677
00:41:57,276 --> 00:41:59,476
Speaker 1: it just kept building and building. I think I thought

678
00:41:59,516 --> 00:42:02,636
Speaker 1: we would stop when we had twenty songs, but we

679
00:42:02,756 --> 00:42:06,036
Speaker 1: just kept going and going. Several times I stopped writing

680
00:42:06,076 --> 00:42:07,956
Speaker 1: songs because I thought, we have enough, let's just work

681
00:42:07,996 --> 00:42:10,676
Speaker 1: on these, and then something or other would happen and

682
00:42:10,756 --> 00:42:15,356
Speaker 1: I'd start At those points, I'd start concentrating on guitar playing.

683
00:42:15,396 --> 00:42:17,836
Speaker 1: I kept thinking there was going to be a phase

684
00:42:17,876 --> 00:42:20,756
Speaker 1: where I was just going to focus on the technical

685
00:42:20,836 --> 00:42:24,156
Speaker 1: part of guitar playing and get away from this studying

686
00:42:24,516 --> 00:42:27,316
Speaker 1: people who come up with good ideas for songs, and

687
00:42:27,916 --> 00:42:30,436
Speaker 1: only stayed in those periods for short periods of time,

688
00:42:30,436 --> 00:42:33,356
Speaker 1: because if I would stop writing songs, Flee would just

689
00:42:33,436 --> 00:42:35,556
Speaker 1: keep coming in with songs, and then I would go like,

690
00:42:36,156 --> 00:42:37,756
Speaker 1: all right, if he's going to come in with songs,

691
00:42:37,796 --> 00:42:40,516
Speaker 1: I'm going to come in with songs. And you know,

692
00:42:40,636 --> 00:42:43,676
Speaker 1: there's that it's kind of a soft kind of competition

693
00:42:43,756 --> 00:42:46,276
Speaker 1: that Flee and I have with each other where where

694
00:42:46,316 --> 00:42:48,436
Speaker 1: we bounce off of each other like that like Anthony

695
00:42:48,596 --> 00:42:51,236
Speaker 1: was talking about. And so that just kept happening all up,

696
00:42:51,476 --> 00:42:54,196
Speaker 1: even while we were in pre production with you, What

697
00:42:54,316 --> 00:42:57,556
Speaker 1: would you say your biggest guitar influences are. Can you

698
00:42:57,636 --> 00:43:01,236
Speaker 1: answer that question? Is it do wide well? Right now?

699
00:43:02,076 --> 00:43:06,236
Speaker 1: It seems like throughout throughout making this record, the main

700
00:43:06,396 --> 00:43:13,076
Speaker 1: people for me we're Freddie King, Johnny Guitar Watson, Clarence

701
00:43:13,156 --> 00:43:17,676
Speaker 1: Gatemouth Brown. These are all electric blues players from fifties

702
00:43:17,716 --> 00:43:22,916
Speaker 1: and early sixties. Forties and then Jeff Beck and Jimmy

703
00:43:22,956 --> 00:43:25,396
Speaker 1: Hendrix have always been big for me, but they were

704
00:43:25,636 --> 00:43:29,916
Speaker 1: particularly big, especially Jeff Beck while we were making this record.

705
00:43:30,516 --> 00:43:35,436
Speaker 1: And as far as guitar parts like that John mcgeek

706
00:43:35,556 --> 00:43:38,876
Speaker 1: from Susie and the Banshees and John Carruther's Valentine as

707
00:43:38,916 --> 00:43:41,916
Speaker 1: well from Susie and the Banshees, particularly the album Tinderbox,

708
00:43:42,756 --> 00:43:46,916
Speaker 1: I find them extremely inspiring. As far as people who

709
00:43:47,196 --> 00:43:50,636
Speaker 1: give me good ideas for making other people sound good,

710
00:43:51,156 --> 00:43:53,796
Speaker 1: those are the big one. Kurt Cobaine's guitar playing also

711
00:43:54,156 --> 00:43:57,796
Speaker 1: I've found really inspiring throughout the making of this record,

712
00:43:58,676 --> 00:44:02,116
Speaker 1: The Reckless Abandoned. I think I had an idea that

713
00:44:03,036 --> 00:44:05,636
Speaker 1: by the time I wasn't sure what the direction the

714
00:44:05,716 --> 00:44:09,036
Speaker 1: album was going to go was or where how my

715
00:44:09,236 --> 00:44:10,876
Speaker 1: playing was going to go, but it seemed like by

716
00:44:10,916 --> 00:44:13,636
Speaker 1: the time we were recording it, it seemed to have

717
00:44:13,916 --> 00:44:15,956
Speaker 1: naturally come to be because I'm always playing along with

718
00:44:15,996 --> 00:44:18,996
Speaker 1: all kinds of guitar players. But I got to a

719
00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:23,036
Speaker 1: point where I was realizing that what was happening in

720
00:44:23,116 --> 00:44:25,756
Speaker 1: my playing was that I was trying to bridge a

721
00:44:25,876 --> 00:44:28,716
Speaker 1: kind of a gap between someone like Jeff Beck, who

722
00:44:28,796 --> 00:44:31,876
Speaker 1: has all a lot of very interesting techniques that are

723
00:44:31,996 --> 00:44:34,956
Speaker 1: very lyrical and expressive, make the guitar almost like it's

724
00:44:34,956 --> 00:44:38,556
Speaker 1: a singer or something. It seemed like I was bridging

725
00:44:38,596 --> 00:44:41,356
Speaker 1: a gap between that and someone like Kurt Cobain, who,

726
00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:45,476
Speaker 1: especially in his improvisational playing, it's not so much about

727
00:44:45,596 --> 00:44:49,276
Speaker 1: techniques per se. It's about putting a lot of energy

728
00:44:49,356 --> 00:44:52,476
Speaker 1: into the instrument and playing in a way that has

729
00:44:52,516 --> 00:44:55,356
Speaker 1: reckless abandoned. So I would think of those as guitar

730
00:44:55,436 --> 00:44:57,796
Speaker 1: players as being contrary to one another, because Jeff Beck

731
00:44:57,916 --> 00:45:02,236
Speaker 1: is very in control and Kurt Cobain is completely out

732
00:45:02,276 --> 00:45:04,516
Speaker 1: of control when he's when he was at his best

733
00:45:04,556 --> 00:45:08,196
Speaker 1: on guitar, and I felt it felt like that that

734
00:45:08,396 --> 00:45:11,356
Speaker 1: was the best that was going on with my guitar playing.

735
00:45:11,396 --> 00:45:14,876
Speaker 1: By the time we were recording, was I was trying

736
00:45:14,916 --> 00:45:18,996
Speaker 1: to blend that kind of expressive lyricism that I was

737
00:45:18,996 --> 00:45:21,076
Speaker 1: also getting quite a bit of from the blues players

738
00:45:21,156 --> 00:45:24,196
Speaker 1: that I was talking about about just really every note

739
00:45:24,276 --> 00:45:27,516
Speaker 1: having its own personality, every note having its own kind

740
00:45:27,556 --> 00:45:31,636
Speaker 1: of attitude and sound coming from your fingers, combining that

741
00:45:31,956 --> 00:45:36,476
Speaker 1: with the wild, reckless, abandoned that that comes when you're

742
00:45:36,516 --> 00:45:39,036
Speaker 1: playing through a marshal really loud and you're standing in

743
00:45:39,156 --> 00:45:41,956
Speaker 1: front of it and you're trying to just put a

744
00:45:41,996 --> 00:45:44,636
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of energy through the instrument. More

745
00:45:44,716 --> 00:45:48,156
Speaker 1: so than that you're trying to play something that you've

746
00:45:49,036 --> 00:45:52,836
Speaker 1: that you've thought of in advance. It's more like like, uh,

747
00:45:53,316 --> 00:45:56,516
Speaker 1: you're listening to what's coming out and and you're trying

748
00:45:56,556 --> 00:46:00,036
Speaker 1: to respond to it and make the thing explode, you know,

749
00:46:00,356 --> 00:46:02,716
Speaker 1: which is my favorite thing to do. Whether I'm on

750
00:46:02,796 --> 00:46:04,916
Speaker 1: a computer or a machine or whatever, that's always the

751
00:46:05,556 --> 00:46:08,196
Speaker 1: object is make the machine sound like it's going to explode,

752
00:46:08,316 --> 00:46:10,276
Speaker 1: you know, make them machine sound like it's got a

753
00:46:10,316 --> 00:46:13,596
Speaker 1: lot of energy coming through it. So now I was

754
00:46:13,716 --> 00:46:17,756
Speaker 1: just doing that with the guitar, and those people really inspiring,

755
00:46:17,756 --> 00:46:20,636
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Hendricks was also kind of a He was

756
00:46:20,716 --> 00:46:23,956
Speaker 1: that way as well. Like he had a to some degree,

757
00:46:23,996 --> 00:46:26,156
Speaker 1: he was kind of a combination of those two things,

758
00:46:26,196 --> 00:46:28,556
Speaker 1: because he sounded very in control in some ways, but

759
00:46:28,676 --> 00:46:32,396
Speaker 1: he'd also have those those aspects of his playing where

760
00:46:32,836 --> 00:46:34,716
Speaker 1: it just sounded like he didn't know what was going

761
00:46:34,756 --> 00:46:38,116
Speaker 1: to happen next. He's just like playing with the feedback

762
00:46:38,236 --> 00:46:42,516
Speaker 1: and surprising himself, you know, And that's that's what keeps

763
00:46:42,556 --> 00:46:45,156
Speaker 1: it interesting for me. So I like it when guitar

764
00:46:45,236 --> 00:46:48,876
Speaker 1: players don't sound too much like they know what they're doing,

765
00:46:49,356 --> 00:46:51,876
Speaker 1: or like they have too much of a preconceived idea

766
00:46:51,916 --> 00:46:53,236
Speaker 1: of what they're going to do. I like it when

767
00:46:53,316 --> 00:46:56,116
Speaker 1: there's a lot of energy coming through their playing, and

768
00:46:56,276 --> 00:46:59,436
Speaker 1: sometimes that's because of they're really good at all those

769
00:46:59,476 --> 00:47:01,596
Speaker 1: techniques that make the guitar speak in a lot of

770
00:47:01,676 --> 00:47:04,276
Speaker 1: different ways, like Jeff Beck or Randy Rhodes or Eddie

771
00:47:04,316 --> 00:47:06,836
Speaker 1: Van Halen, who were also people I was playing along

772
00:47:06,916 --> 00:47:10,516
Speaker 1: with a fair amount, But you know, I was mainly

773
00:47:10,596 --> 00:47:13,276
Speaker 1: listening to hardcore punk by the time we were recording it,

774
00:47:13,396 --> 00:47:16,116
Speaker 1: and that was the energy that I wanted to be

775
00:47:16,196 --> 00:47:18,236
Speaker 1: in all the music, no matter how soft it was,

776
00:47:19,076 --> 00:47:21,836
Speaker 1: no matter what the style of music was, I wanted

777
00:47:21,876 --> 00:47:24,076
Speaker 1: it to feel raw, and I wanted it to feel

778
00:47:24,436 --> 00:47:26,316
Speaker 1: feel like it was the spirit of punk, even if

779
00:47:26,356 --> 00:47:31,356
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily the sound of punk. Beautiful, Anthony, do

780
00:47:31,436 --> 00:47:34,636
Speaker 1: you want to pick up where John talks through the

781
00:47:34,716 --> 00:47:38,276
Speaker 1: writing process. Do you want to start with preproduction and

782
00:47:38,356 --> 00:47:41,876
Speaker 1: then recording what the experience was like, what it felt

783
00:47:41,916 --> 00:47:45,596
Speaker 1: like being in the room with everybody? Any thoughts? No,

784
00:47:49,436 --> 00:47:54,396
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed listening to John's description there. He articulated

785
00:47:54,476 --> 00:47:58,476
Speaker 1: in a way that I think about it. I was

786
00:47:58,596 --> 00:48:03,516
Speaker 1: thinking of, this is not some great secret, but musicians

787
00:48:03,596 --> 00:48:08,036
Speaker 1: that learn the academics of music and the technique of

788
00:48:08,156 --> 00:48:11,996
Speaker 1: music in the you know, all the different theory and everything,

789
00:48:12,156 --> 00:48:15,116
Speaker 1: and then they really kind of put all that aside

790
00:48:15,716 --> 00:48:19,796
Speaker 1: to just let the explosion in the chaos and the

791
00:48:19,996 --> 00:48:23,876
Speaker 1: moment be a part of what's being played, rather than,

792
00:48:24,756 --> 00:48:30,876
Speaker 1: you know, this kind of meticulous, preconceived approach. And you know,

793
00:48:30,956 --> 00:48:36,556
Speaker 1: I think John's an interesting example of that, because when

794
00:48:36,636 --> 00:48:41,516
Speaker 1: we're playing live, it is explosive and it is dangerous

795
00:48:41,716 --> 00:48:45,516
Speaker 1: and it is unpredictable. But I know how much time

796
00:48:45,636 --> 00:48:49,156
Speaker 1: and effort and you know, songs that he's learned how

797
00:48:49,196 --> 00:48:52,276
Speaker 1: to play of other people's and techniques that he's taken

798
00:48:52,356 --> 00:48:55,516
Speaker 1: the time to figure out because John is a unique

799
00:48:55,556 --> 00:48:59,436
Speaker 1: individual and that he is much less distracted than the

800
00:48:59,556 --> 00:49:02,876
Speaker 1: average human being on earth today in the way that

801
00:49:02,996 --> 00:49:05,796
Speaker 1: like Leonardo da Vinci, was able to think clearly and

802
00:49:06,156 --> 00:49:08,356
Speaker 1: put in all this great work with what he loved

803
00:49:08,396 --> 00:49:12,636
Speaker 1: to do because his telephone wasn't ringing and the cell

804
00:49:12,716 --> 00:49:16,716
Speaker 1: tower wasn't pinging off his head. And John has found

805
00:49:16,756 --> 00:49:18,516
Speaker 1: a way to do that in the modern age where

806
00:49:18,596 --> 00:49:23,276
Speaker 1: he can really focus and concentrate and apply himself to

807
00:49:23,476 --> 00:49:25,836
Speaker 1: his craft in a way where the noise of the

808
00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:29,076
Speaker 1: world has less of an impact, less of a distraction.

809
00:49:29,996 --> 00:49:32,556
Speaker 1: But I love that. I love it when when musicians

810
00:49:32,716 --> 00:49:35,196
Speaker 1: just get so good and then they can throw it

811
00:49:35,276 --> 00:49:40,236
Speaker 1: away and just you know, be So that was cool

812
00:49:40,316 --> 00:49:43,476
Speaker 1: to hear. Like John said, when we got into a

813
00:49:43,596 --> 00:49:47,196
Speaker 1: room together, it was it wasn't trying to live up to,

814
00:49:47,996 --> 00:49:50,236
Speaker 1: you know, where where we had left off, and nobody

815
00:49:50,316 --> 00:49:52,356
Speaker 1: felt like that. You know, I didn't walk into the room.

816
00:49:52,396 --> 00:49:54,636
Speaker 1: It's like, well, we have to be this now because

817
00:49:54,676 --> 00:49:57,156
Speaker 1: we were that ten years ago. It was kind of

818
00:49:57,196 --> 00:50:01,716
Speaker 1: like let's just reinvent and start from ground zero. Um.

819
00:50:02,036 --> 00:50:05,076
Speaker 1: And it was super slow, like in a good way,

820
00:50:05,516 --> 00:50:08,316
Speaker 1: like we didn't go in there and you know, try

821
00:50:08,356 --> 00:50:10,116
Speaker 1: to write a hit or anything. We just went in

822
00:50:10,196 --> 00:50:12,516
Speaker 1: there and tried to feel each other out. And the

823
00:50:12,596 --> 00:50:15,836
Speaker 1: feeling was nice because it was relaxed and it was

824
00:50:15,956 --> 00:50:20,876
Speaker 1: devoid of expectation. And we've always had the luxury of

825
00:50:21,636 --> 00:50:25,036
Speaker 1: playing anything under the sun, whether it's you know, a

826
00:50:25,156 --> 00:50:28,396
Speaker 1: little beatbox grew that we want to turn into a song,

827
00:50:29,076 --> 00:50:31,556
Speaker 1: or something that was inspired by jazz, or something that

828
00:50:31,636 --> 00:50:34,156
Speaker 1: was inspired by funk, or something that was inspired by

829
00:50:34,196 --> 00:50:36,996
Speaker 1: the Marx Brothers. That was like, whatever feelings we have,

830
00:50:37,156 --> 00:50:40,556
Speaker 1: they're they're all welcome at the table when when it

831
00:50:40,636 --> 00:50:43,476
Speaker 1: comes time for us to write. And we had those

832
00:50:43,516 --> 00:50:46,596
Speaker 1: great experiences of learning blue songs, which were freaking challenging

833
00:50:46,716 --> 00:50:49,156
Speaker 1: for me because for John that's a that's a big

834
00:50:49,236 --> 00:50:51,556
Speaker 1: part of his vernacular and for me, I've never really

835
00:50:51,596 --> 00:50:54,636
Speaker 1: taken the time to go and and what sounds so

836
00:50:54,916 --> 00:50:59,276
Speaker 1: simple and the blues world is so full of nuance

837
00:50:59,516 --> 00:51:03,876
Speaker 1: and you know, rhythmic innuendos that that don't come natural.

838
00:51:03,956 --> 00:51:05,436
Speaker 1: So that was kind of fun for me. And there

839
00:51:05,516 --> 00:51:08,476
Speaker 1: was actually a moment where we were hell bent on

840
00:51:08,676 --> 00:51:14,076
Speaker 1: going to this daytime blues club down in South Central

841
00:51:14,596 --> 00:51:17,036
Speaker 1: which is like an active one. I think maybe the

842
00:51:17,156 --> 00:51:20,236
Speaker 1: only active all blues all the time clubs left in

843
00:51:20,476 --> 00:51:23,876
Speaker 1: LA where these these elder statesmen of blues still like

844
00:51:24,036 --> 00:51:27,516
Speaker 1: play out of a storefront or an open garage or something,

845
00:51:27,556 --> 00:51:30,756
Speaker 1: and it's a club. And I don't know if we

846
00:51:30,836 --> 00:51:33,396
Speaker 1: ever really got good enough with our with our blues song,

847
00:51:33,636 --> 00:51:35,996
Speaker 1: mainly me to go down there and play. But we

848
00:51:36,236 --> 00:51:39,596
Speaker 1: were like, we're once we get these songs together, we're

849
00:51:39,596 --> 00:51:41,996
Speaker 1: gonna go play the blues club in South Central. And

850
00:51:42,756 --> 00:51:45,836
Speaker 1: it was a nice little aspiration to kind of fuel

851
00:51:45,876 --> 00:51:48,756
Speaker 1: the fire for a while. And then I just remember

852
00:51:49,236 --> 00:51:52,796
Speaker 1: John playing a couple of songs on guitar that that

853
00:51:52,956 --> 00:51:57,796
Speaker 1: he had formed arrangementally, and and one turned out to

854
00:51:57,916 --> 00:52:01,396
Speaker 1: be a White Braids and pillow Chair, and it was

855
00:52:01,556 --> 00:52:05,076
Speaker 1: so laid back and so simple, but so emotional and

856
00:52:05,236 --> 00:52:11,116
Speaker 1: so interesting, and it had this um, this unique arrangement

857
00:52:11,116 --> 00:52:14,716
Speaker 1: because it had the outro was almost as lengthy as

858
00:52:14,756 --> 00:52:18,916
Speaker 1: the actual song, which ended up not being the same

859
00:52:19,036 --> 00:52:21,356
Speaker 1: ratio once the song was finished, but it started off

860
00:52:21,796 --> 00:52:24,276
Speaker 1: that outro, you know, the outro to White Raids, that

861
00:52:24,476 --> 00:52:27,316
Speaker 1: was half the tune, and it just kept rolling like

862
00:52:27,396 --> 00:52:30,396
Speaker 1: a horse running off into the woods. So there was that,

863
00:52:30,636 --> 00:52:32,516
Speaker 1: and that was emotion. I was like, oh jeez, I

864
00:52:32,596 --> 00:52:36,116
Speaker 1: hope I can like find the right colors for this song.

865
00:52:36,796 --> 00:52:40,316
Speaker 1: And then Black Summer, oddly enough, which is now like

866
00:52:40,436 --> 00:52:42,916
Speaker 1: our single off the record, was one of the first

867
00:52:42,996 --> 00:52:47,396
Speaker 1: things that I remember John playing, and it was had

868
00:52:47,476 --> 00:52:50,716
Speaker 1: such a beautifully sparse verse. I was like, wow, I

869
00:52:50,836 --> 00:52:54,436
Speaker 1: am going to be naked and exposed trying to get

870
00:52:54,556 --> 00:52:58,476
Speaker 1: my voice on this. But I'm pretty sure that John

871
00:52:58,636 --> 00:53:02,956
Speaker 1: had for the verse of that song the basic vocal melody,

872
00:53:02,996 --> 00:53:06,156
Speaker 1: Am I right? John? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, the verse is

873
00:53:06,716 --> 00:53:08,956
Speaker 1: what you're doing on the verse is pretty similar to

874
00:53:09,196 --> 00:53:11,716
Speaker 1: what I originally wrote. I realized recently what you're doing

875
00:53:11,796 --> 00:53:14,756
Speaker 1: on the chorus is it probably was inspired by what

876
00:53:14,876 --> 00:53:16,396
Speaker 1: I did, But what I did couldn't have been more

877
00:53:16,516 --> 00:53:19,356
Speaker 1: different in terms of the feeling of Yeah, I wasn't

878
00:53:19,396 --> 00:53:23,316
Speaker 1: trying to recreate your melody in the chorus. Yeah, that

879
00:53:23,476 --> 00:53:26,596
Speaker 1: was something that I thought was just a new part.

880
00:53:27,036 --> 00:53:29,356
Speaker 1: But but but it may have been seated by whatever

881
00:53:29,436 --> 00:53:32,156
Speaker 1: you were doing. It starts on the same note. That's

882
00:53:32,196 --> 00:53:35,956
Speaker 1: the only similarity, Like like like, uh, yeah, the chorus,

883
00:53:36,076 --> 00:53:38,716
Speaker 1: my chorus was so different. It just popped into my

884
00:53:38,756 --> 00:53:40,276
Speaker 1: head the other day, I was like, wow, that was

885
00:53:40,316 --> 00:53:45,436
Speaker 1: the original chorus. There's this girl Kate from Wales who's

886
00:53:45,476 --> 00:53:49,076
Speaker 1: a folk singer that I admire, and and when you

887
00:53:49,196 --> 00:53:52,236
Speaker 1: wrote that that verse and it came with that kind

888
00:53:52,276 --> 00:53:55,316
Speaker 1: of folkush melody, I was like, yeah, I get to

889
00:53:55,436 --> 00:54:00,516
Speaker 1: like try something new and very exposing, which was hard

890
00:54:00,516 --> 00:54:02,156
Speaker 1: to sing in the beginning, because you know, it's kind

891
00:54:02,196 --> 00:54:06,076
Speaker 1: of this free floating melody in space there. Maybe not

892
00:54:06,196 --> 00:54:10,716
Speaker 1: her for you, but harder for me. That the inspiration

893
00:54:10,996 --> 00:54:14,156
Speaker 1: for you almost have a bit of an accent at

894
00:54:14,196 --> 00:54:16,156
Speaker 1: the beginning of a song. It's not almost, and it's

895
00:54:16,196 --> 00:54:19,596
Speaker 1: not almost. So is that inspired by Kate? Yes? So

896
00:54:19,876 --> 00:54:21,916
Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to be Welsh. I wasn't trying to

897
00:54:21,956 --> 00:54:25,596
Speaker 1: be Irish or Scottish or English or a pirate. But

898
00:54:26,076 --> 00:54:28,876
Speaker 1: I did feel like I need to be in character

899
00:54:29,076 --> 00:54:33,436
Speaker 1: to sing this verse. This doesn't have to be like

900
00:54:33,676 --> 00:54:38,036
Speaker 1: my normal me. It can be you know, a variation,

901
00:54:38,116 --> 00:54:40,956
Speaker 1: a version of character. And it was just quite simply,

902
00:54:40,996 --> 00:54:42,996
Speaker 1: it was easier to sing with a little bit of

903
00:54:43,276 --> 00:54:48,156
Speaker 1: that amalgam accent than not for whatever reason. And I

904
00:54:48,196 --> 00:54:51,196
Speaker 1: also feel like that's the right flavor for the verse

905
00:54:52,276 --> 00:54:55,796
Speaker 1: from when Anthony first started singing it, he saw it like,

906
00:54:55,916 --> 00:54:58,236
Speaker 1: there's different ways to interpret the song, you know. There

907
00:54:58,396 --> 00:55:01,076
Speaker 1: was like, in some ways it could be seen as

908
00:55:01,116 --> 00:55:04,716
Speaker 1: sort of a Nirvana type song with a soft verse

909
00:55:04,796 --> 00:55:08,316
Speaker 1: and an explosive chorus, and but there was another way

910
00:55:08,356 --> 00:55:11,916
Speaker 1: of looking at this that was like Anthony, what Anthony

911
00:55:12,036 --> 00:55:13,676
Speaker 1: heard in it, which is that it's more of a

912
00:55:13,756 --> 00:55:16,356
Speaker 1: folk song. It's amazing. That's one of the things that

913
00:55:16,516 --> 00:55:21,876
Speaker 1: makes collaboration so interesting is that you'll start with one

914
00:55:21,916 --> 00:55:24,836
Speaker 1: idea and someone will add something, and at first it'll

915
00:55:24,916 --> 00:55:27,676
Speaker 1: seem weird, and then you can come around to like, whoa,

916
00:55:28,276 --> 00:55:30,116
Speaker 1: it's really I can't imagine it a different way now.

917
00:55:30,156 --> 00:55:33,396
Speaker 1: It's so fascinating the process. Yeah, I don't think that

918
00:55:33,516 --> 00:55:35,716
Speaker 1: there was that there's a right way to sing that

919
00:55:35,956 --> 00:55:42,756
Speaker 1: verse or not, like now. I remember John's early stylings

920
00:55:42,836 --> 00:55:46,556
Speaker 1: were more in the Nirvana mode, and that also felt

921
00:55:46,636 --> 00:55:50,356
Speaker 1: right it certainly it certainly didn't feel wrong. But but

922
00:55:50,636 --> 00:55:53,236
Speaker 1: I feel the same about the kind of folk approach,

923
00:55:53,356 --> 00:55:58,676
Speaker 1: Like in this case, both work, and for whatever reason,

924
00:55:58,996 --> 00:56:03,276
Speaker 1: I gravitated towards the folk rather than the Kurt styling

925
00:56:03,596 --> 00:56:06,956
Speaker 1: or John's interpretation of that. But I remember liking the

926
00:56:06,996 --> 00:56:10,036
Speaker 1: way John sang it, and and that felt just as

927
00:56:10,116 --> 00:56:14,116
Speaker 1: right as anything. Fascinating, you know, it's fascinating how it works.

928
00:56:14,196 --> 00:56:18,356
Speaker 1: Like the way things change when you're making it happens

929
00:56:18,396 --> 00:56:21,476
Speaker 1: too when we're recording, Like things will evolve in the recording.

930
00:56:21,516 --> 00:56:23,876
Speaker 1: They'll even change in the mix sometimes where the whole

931
00:56:24,036 --> 00:56:26,516
Speaker 1: feel of a song comes alive in a way that

932
00:56:26,636 --> 00:56:28,436
Speaker 1: it didn't since the first time you played it in

933
00:56:28,516 --> 00:56:31,996
Speaker 1: the room and it was really exciting. Then you can

934
00:56:32,276 --> 00:56:34,996
Speaker 1: hear a mix where it like it's back, like it's

935
00:56:35,076 --> 00:56:39,236
Speaker 1: back to that energy that doesn't always happen naturally. Sometimes

936
00:56:39,316 --> 00:56:44,996
Speaker 1: it takes massaging to get it to do what it

937
00:56:45,116 --> 00:56:47,676
Speaker 1: can do. I have a question about white Braids, because

938
00:56:47,676 --> 00:56:49,916
Speaker 1: you mentioned it earlier. Do you guys mind if we

939
00:56:49,996 --> 00:57:12,196
Speaker 1: listen to it? Sure, I'm an angler dagger and I

940
00:57:12,436 --> 00:57:16,236
Speaker 1: wanna rim it dot to shwintz a while I can

941
00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:21,836
Speaker 1: ask it why she's a loaded cobra and she wanted

942
00:57:21,956 --> 00:57:29,596
Speaker 1: to be with me for the ride In a Sunday dinner,

943
00:57:29,796 --> 00:57:34,836
Speaker 1: I'm reminded there's no final place to kiss than unl this.

944
00:57:36,436 --> 00:57:43,876
Speaker 1: But day I can't see what's right with you? Why

945
00:57:44,036 --> 00:57:56,036
Speaker 1: Prisonlin I couldn't spend my night with its busy Lovaina.

946
00:57:56,116 --> 00:58:05,036
Speaker 1: I can't see your side of why braising chair. I

947
00:58:05,316 --> 00:58:13,236
Speaker 1: don't know what I would without your below. She's a

948
00:58:13,316 --> 00:58:19,156
Speaker 1: Bobby Daring singing too, the fishing, heaving, sacrifice, all that's

949
00:58:19,196 --> 00:58:25,276
Speaker 1: a night. There's a common about the backing. We believe

950
00:58:25,436 --> 00:58:32,996
Speaker 1: it's a lie. You can see the ribble running through

951
00:58:33,116 --> 00:58:41,876
Speaker 1: my devastated concrete eyes. Don't Denis, but I can't see

952
00:58:42,276 --> 00:58:50,876
Speaker 1: what's right with you? Wh prisonlow chain. I could stand

953
00:58:51,236 --> 00:59:01,196
Speaker 1: my nights with thelow fain. I can't see your sides

954
00:59:04,156 --> 00:59:19,996
Speaker 1: w resent pillow share. I don't know d time cattle

955
00:59:20,276 --> 00:59:37,636
Speaker 1: Lifonio say things. Take cattle, liponia, same, beat them to

956
00:59:37,956 --> 00:59:47,076
Speaker 1: a style rot and by God then do a sky

957
00:59:49,596 --> 01:00:05,916
Speaker 1: and by sound to be baker something sound to be so.

958
01:00:31,956 --> 01:00:35,956
Speaker 1: I love that song. That song is based on a

959
01:00:36,156 --> 01:00:41,316
Speaker 1: true life couple who I didn't meet, but some years

960
01:00:41,356 --> 01:00:45,716
Speaker 1: ago I was with my girlfriend Helena, and we were

961
01:00:45,796 --> 01:00:50,316
Speaker 1: in Ventura at a coffee shop having a snack, and

962
01:00:51,236 --> 01:00:53,556
Speaker 1: this couple showed up, and they were probably in their

963
01:00:53,636 --> 01:00:58,756
Speaker 1: late seventies, and the man had the most beautiful white

964
01:00:58,836 --> 01:01:02,476
Speaker 1: braids you'd ever seen down to his waist, and she

965
01:01:03,396 --> 01:01:06,476
Speaker 1: came with her own pillow to the coffee shop and

966
01:01:06,676 --> 01:01:08,796
Speaker 1: she sat that pillow down on her chair so she'd

967
01:01:08,836 --> 01:01:11,396
Speaker 1: be just a little more comfortable, and they had their

968
01:01:11,516 --> 01:01:13,716
Speaker 1: lunch together and I looked at him and I was like,

969
01:01:14,836 --> 01:01:17,996
Speaker 1: that is the most beautiful couple I've ever seen. And

970
01:01:19,276 --> 01:01:21,676
Speaker 1: I ended up referring to them as white Braids and

971
01:01:21,716 --> 01:01:24,396
Speaker 1: pillow Chair for the rest of the day when talking

972
01:01:24,436 --> 01:01:26,956
Speaker 1: to my girlfriend at the time, and it just stuck

973
01:01:26,996 --> 01:01:29,356
Speaker 1: as they need a song to be written about them.

974
01:01:30,196 --> 01:01:33,556
Speaker 1: Many years later, John shows up with this cool idea

975
01:01:33,636 --> 01:01:38,036
Speaker 1: for a song, and White Braids was born. So you

976
01:01:38,156 --> 01:01:41,396
Speaker 1: had the idea, never knowing it would be a song

977
01:01:42,116 --> 01:01:46,356
Speaker 1: for years. Yes, it was just just a memory from

978
01:01:46,516 --> 01:01:50,116
Speaker 1: years earlier. It was. It was an emblazoned memory, but

979
01:01:50,236 --> 01:01:54,236
Speaker 1: it was also probably a jotted note. I'd probably made

980
01:01:54,276 --> 01:01:57,916
Speaker 1: a note to self somewhere and some phone that was

981
01:01:57,996 --> 01:02:02,396
Speaker 1: dead in a drawer somewhere. White braids and pillow chair. Yeah,

982
01:02:02,516 --> 01:02:06,276
Speaker 1: And I was very touched that you were feeling the song,

983
01:02:07,116 --> 01:02:12,156
Speaker 1: because sometimes in the middle of fifty songs you can

984
01:02:12,236 --> 01:02:15,196
Speaker 1: lose perspective and then to see it have an effect

985
01:02:15,236 --> 01:02:17,916
Speaker 1: on you and you would come in and you're like, oh,

986
01:02:17,996 --> 01:02:19,596
Speaker 1: I took my walk on the beach today and all

987
01:02:19,636 --> 01:02:21,516
Speaker 1: I could sing was white braids. I was like, Okay,

988
01:02:21,916 --> 01:02:24,036
Speaker 1: the song is correct. If Freak is singing it, the

989
01:02:24,116 --> 01:02:28,076
Speaker 1: song is correct. It's true. It definitely would hit me

990
01:02:28,156 --> 01:02:30,196
Speaker 1: on the beach. And John used to talk to me

991
01:02:30,316 --> 01:02:33,276
Speaker 1: about walking around his house singing the outro because that

992
01:02:33,396 --> 01:02:36,876
Speaker 1: was the vocal in the outro is John's melody. And

993
01:02:37,716 --> 01:02:40,596
Speaker 1: do you remember that, John? Yeah, that I just kept.

994
01:02:40,756 --> 01:02:43,396
Speaker 1: I mean, I had the guitar part and which is

995
01:02:43,436 --> 01:02:45,356
Speaker 1: always playing a few notes at once, but I had

996
01:02:45,396 --> 01:02:47,276
Speaker 1: a melody that I was it was sticking in my

997
01:02:47,396 --> 01:02:51,116
Speaker 1: head as being certain notes in the chords basically. So

998
01:02:51,556 --> 01:02:55,876
Speaker 1: that's been an interesting kind of collaboration, is the melody department,

999
01:02:55,876 --> 01:02:59,116
Speaker 1: because that's the fun of writing music with other people,

1000
01:02:59,276 --> 01:03:04,076
Speaker 1: is to see where where a very simple idea becomes

1001
01:03:04,156 --> 01:03:07,796
Speaker 1: fleshed out by other people. So like usually when I'd

1002
01:03:07,836 --> 01:03:11,916
Speaker 1: write some core changes, I have to have a melody

1003
01:03:11,956 --> 01:03:13,836
Speaker 1: in my head to know that there's any value in

1004
01:03:13,876 --> 01:03:16,196
Speaker 1: the chord changes. Like it it's hard for me to

1005
01:03:17,276 --> 01:03:20,436
Speaker 1: just write the chords by themselves, Like I need to

1006
01:03:20,516 --> 01:03:22,196
Speaker 1: know that it's going to be fun for Anthony to

1007
01:03:22,276 --> 01:03:25,636
Speaker 1: write a melody over it, to want to bring something in,

1008
01:03:26,316 --> 01:03:28,636
Speaker 1: So I figure, if it makes me write a melody,

1009
01:03:29,716 --> 01:03:31,716
Speaker 1: it's going to make him want to write a melody.

1010
01:03:32,036 --> 01:03:34,356
Speaker 1: So that's that's sort of part of my criteria for

1011
01:03:34,956 --> 01:03:36,996
Speaker 1: stuff that I bring in versus stuff that I don't

1012
01:03:37,036 --> 01:03:40,316
Speaker 1: bring in a lot of the time, so quite a

1013
01:03:40,356 --> 01:03:42,556
Speaker 1: bit of the time I had a melody, but I

1014
01:03:42,596 --> 01:03:46,796
Speaker 1: wouldn't tell it to him unless he asked, so in

1015
01:03:46,916 --> 01:03:49,916
Speaker 1: that case, I believe that was one of the ones

1016
01:03:49,996 --> 01:03:51,916
Speaker 1: where he said, do you have a melody for the

1017
01:03:52,636 --> 01:03:55,476
Speaker 1: ultra white Bread? You know it's I never felt any

1018
01:03:55,556 --> 01:03:57,756
Speaker 1: kind of sense of attachment to the melodies that I

1019
01:03:57,996 --> 01:04:01,236
Speaker 1: came in with. Sometimes i'd sing it to him the

1020
01:04:01,356 --> 01:04:04,596
Speaker 1: day I brought into the guitar part. Sometimes i'd maybe

1021
01:04:04,716 --> 01:04:06,796
Speaker 1: sing him one of the melodies and not the other.

1022
01:04:07,076 --> 01:04:10,356
Speaker 1: Sometimes he'd interpret the melody in his own way and

1023
01:04:10,796 --> 01:04:13,836
Speaker 1: turn it into something else. Sometimes he'd completely come up

1024
01:04:13,876 --> 01:04:17,716
Speaker 1: with his own melody. Sometimes he'd do exactly pretty much

1025
01:04:17,796 --> 01:04:20,276
Speaker 1: the melody that I'd wrote, or very close to it.

1026
01:04:20,876 --> 01:04:23,876
Speaker 1: You know, it was always up to him. I remember

1027
01:04:24,076 --> 01:04:26,516
Speaker 1: the first time I brought in a tune like that

1028
01:04:26,676 --> 01:04:28,716
Speaker 1: to him, I made it clear after I performed it,

1029
01:04:28,796 --> 01:04:30,956
Speaker 1: like I don't give a shit the melody, you know

1030
01:04:30,996 --> 01:04:32,876
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, if you like it, great, but

1031
01:04:33,116 --> 01:04:35,516
Speaker 1: like I'm just I'm just throwing it out there just

1032
01:04:35,556 --> 01:04:36,956
Speaker 1: because this is the way it came to me. And

1033
01:04:37,036 --> 01:04:39,916
Speaker 1: a lot of the time I'd specifically withhold the melody

1034
01:04:40,316 --> 01:04:43,836
Speaker 1: unless he asked about it, because I'd just make a

1035
01:04:43,876 --> 01:04:47,876
Speaker 1: different judgment for different pieces of music. We'll be right

1036
01:04:47,916 --> 01:04:50,076
Speaker 1: back after a break with more from Anthony Keatis and

1037
01:04:50,156 --> 01:04:57,036
Speaker 1: John Fuschante. We're back with the rest of Rick Rubin's

1038
01:04:57,076 --> 01:05:01,836
Speaker 1: conversation with Anthony Ketis and John Fushante. John, let's talk

1039
01:05:01,876 --> 01:05:04,876
Speaker 1: about how Flea brings in songs also and he brings

1040
01:05:04,916 --> 01:05:08,196
Speaker 1: in they seem to be two categories, but maybe that's

1041
01:05:08,276 --> 01:05:10,356
Speaker 1: not right. I think it was two categories. Ones that

1042
01:05:10,396 --> 01:05:12,876
Speaker 1: he's written on piano and one that he writes on bass,

1043
01:05:13,476 --> 01:05:17,036
Speaker 1: and those are two whole different avenues in for his songs.

1044
01:05:17,476 --> 01:05:20,436
Speaker 1: Tell me about the experience of hearing a new Flee

1045
01:05:20,556 --> 01:05:24,236
Speaker 1: song and then reacting to it. How do you know

1046
01:05:24,436 --> 01:05:27,316
Speaker 1: what to do in reaction to what he brings in

1047
01:05:28,556 --> 01:05:32,476
Speaker 1: the piano ones? In some cases, like I'm thinking particularly

1048
01:05:33,116 --> 01:05:36,596
Speaker 1: it's only natural. Yeah, like that song it was just

1049
01:05:36,836 --> 01:05:40,396
Speaker 1: him on piano for for a long time, and it

1050
01:05:40,596 --> 01:05:44,916
Speaker 1: kept kind of falling apart. It wasn't really naturally developing

1051
01:05:45,036 --> 01:05:47,996
Speaker 1: into something, but he kept bringing it in. He kept

1052
01:05:48,036 --> 01:05:50,116
Speaker 1: reminding us of it over and over, and he would

1053
01:05:50,156 --> 01:05:51,676
Speaker 1: sit down on the piano and he would go like,

1054
01:05:52,476 --> 01:05:54,876
Speaker 1: dun du du du du du du dent dun dun

1055
01:05:54,956 --> 01:05:57,236
Speaker 1: dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun

1056
01:05:57,316 --> 01:06:00,356
Speaker 1: dun du du dud. It was. It was just the

1057
01:06:00,436 --> 01:06:04,276
Speaker 1: basics of the chord progression played like that. And so

1058
01:06:04,476 --> 01:06:07,956
Speaker 1: I started playing bass since he was playing piano, and

1059
01:06:08,116 --> 01:06:09,996
Speaker 1: I came up with this bass line. And I remember

1060
01:06:10,756 --> 01:06:13,436
Speaker 1: we had been throwing the song around for a while

1061
01:06:13,516 --> 01:06:16,396
Speaker 1: and like I said, it wasn't really going anywhere, but

1062
01:06:16,796 --> 01:06:18,876
Speaker 1: it started to feel like it was going somewhere when

1063
01:06:18,916 --> 01:06:20,836
Speaker 1: I made up this bass line to it. And I

1064
01:06:20,916 --> 01:06:22,436
Speaker 1: was kind of playing the only way I really can

1065
01:06:22,516 --> 01:06:24,876
Speaker 1: play bass, and kind of a Paul McCartney style, kind

1066
01:06:24,876 --> 01:06:27,876
Speaker 1: of sliding around and the chord changes and being kind

1067
01:06:27,916 --> 01:06:31,476
Speaker 1: of fancy in a guitar player kind of way. And Anthony,

1068
01:06:31,556 --> 01:06:33,596
Speaker 1: who was making jokes like you know who was that

1069
01:06:33,716 --> 01:06:35,876
Speaker 1: John aink Whistle on the bass? You know, everybody was

1070
01:06:35,876 --> 01:06:37,836
Speaker 1: saying what a great bass line it was. Chad was

1071
01:06:37,916 --> 01:06:39,716
Speaker 1: really into the bass line. Anthony was really into the

1072
01:06:39,756 --> 01:06:42,356
Speaker 1: bass line, and as I remember it, the next day,

1073
01:06:42,996 --> 01:06:44,796
Speaker 1: Fully came in with the idea that now he's going

1074
01:06:44,836 --> 01:06:47,236
Speaker 1: to play it on bass, you know, like like like,

1075
01:06:48,836 --> 01:06:51,156
Speaker 1: and so it was one of those little competitive moments

1076
01:06:51,236 --> 01:06:54,356
Speaker 1: that like he did not like like everybody being excited

1077
01:06:54,356 --> 01:06:56,316
Speaker 1: about my bass line. So he came in and he

1078
01:06:56,396 --> 01:06:59,716
Speaker 1: did an even better bass line, and I switched to guitar,

1079
01:07:00,276 --> 01:07:02,796
Speaker 1: and that's when the song started to really feel like

1080
01:07:02,916 --> 01:07:06,316
Speaker 1: it had a really real life, you know. So yeah,

1081
01:07:06,636 --> 01:07:10,636
Speaker 1: some of the piano ones came together and you just

1082
01:07:10,796 --> 01:07:13,596
Speaker 1: never knew where they were going to go. He learned

1083
01:07:13,636 --> 01:07:16,196
Speaker 1: how to play piano while I wasn't in the band,

1084
01:07:16,316 --> 01:07:19,836
Speaker 1: So that was a brand new aspect of the collaboration

1085
01:07:20,236 --> 01:07:23,876
Speaker 1: that I was adjusting to. Let's let's play It's only natural.

1086
01:07:23,956 --> 01:07:26,676
Speaker 1: It's one of my also one of my very favorite songs.

1087
01:07:27,196 --> 01:07:29,876
Speaker 1: I had no idea the history of it. The beauty

1088
01:07:29,996 --> 01:07:31,996
Speaker 1: is I get to come into the rehearsal room and

1089
01:07:32,156 --> 01:07:35,436
Speaker 1: I hear the songs after they've already turned into pretty

1090
01:07:35,556 --> 01:07:38,276
Speaker 1: much what they are, and we talk about them from there,

1091
01:07:38,316 --> 01:07:40,596
Speaker 1: how we can make them better, But they're pretty much

1092
01:07:40,716 --> 01:07:44,636
Speaker 1: what they are, So you'll now hear it's only natural,

1093
01:07:45,076 --> 01:07:46,916
Speaker 1: not so different than how I heard it when I

1094
01:07:46,996 --> 01:08:12,996
Speaker 1: walked in the first time. She was learning new the

1095
01:08:13,236 --> 01:08:23,036
Speaker 1: PA did itself. He was side them more night in

1096
01:08:23,236 --> 01:08:33,716
Speaker 1: the spier Shokud she was a dady girl briddle the

1097
01:08:33,956 --> 01:08:52,316
Speaker 1: brick stone with dragonside, but she came home in that

1098
01:08:52,836 --> 01:08:58,636
Speaker 1: Jerling Love show, you have to break it down in

1099
01:08:58,836 --> 01:09:04,836
Speaker 1: spite of attraction. Well in doling that jeling people with

1100
01:09:05,036 --> 01:09:11,916
Speaker 1: show you have breake it down. In Spider Steady up

1101
01:09:33,036 --> 01:09:38,236
Speaker 1: they were perfect. Bless you you beauties and the rest

1102
01:09:38,356 --> 01:09:47,396
Speaker 1: of babe. Nobody knows just fair landing with strike but

1103
01:09:48,436 --> 01:10:14,476
Speaker 1: always game. And she came home. She came. It's on

1104
01:10:14,796 --> 01:10:19,116
Speaker 1: in that jewerl and Love will show you how to

1105
01:10:19,276 --> 01:10:25,156
Speaker 1: break it down in spiral attraction when it's only in

1106
01:10:25,396 --> 01:10:29,796
Speaker 1: that jewel and people will show you how to take

1107
01:10:29,916 --> 01:11:21,276
Speaker 1: it down. Inspiral steady of General show you how to

1108
01:11:21,396 --> 01:11:29,916
Speaker 1: bring it down inspirer traction that general and people were

1109
01:11:30,036 --> 01:11:39,836
Speaker 1: shown you not being it down inspirer lovel and Loose

1110
01:11:40,436 --> 01:11:49,556
Speaker 1: show you have to breaking down the traction when Insolingling

1111
01:11:49,836 --> 01:12:04,756
Speaker 1: people show you have been down inspired love Steadio. I

1112
01:12:04,916 --> 01:12:07,476
Speaker 1: love that song. I love that song, and I didn't

1113
01:12:07,516 --> 01:12:09,036
Speaker 1: know any of that story. I didn't know that that

1114
01:12:09,236 --> 01:12:12,036
Speaker 1: song came in on piano, and I didn't know any

1115
01:12:12,036 --> 01:12:15,316
Speaker 1: of the history of it. Yeah, and then the chorus

1116
01:12:15,476 --> 01:12:19,276
Speaker 1: was the result of a face off. Wow. And yeah.

1117
01:12:19,276 --> 01:12:21,316
Speaker 1: It's one of those things like I was talking about earlier,

1118
01:12:21,436 --> 01:12:24,156
Speaker 1: like I was into what we came up with instrumentally,

1119
01:12:24,236 --> 01:12:26,876
Speaker 1: but Anthony came in with the vocal, as I remember it,

1120
01:12:27,196 --> 01:12:31,156
Speaker 1: very quickly. Once we once it finally sounded like a song.

1121
01:12:32,316 --> 01:12:35,956
Speaker 1: And that excitement that I feel I kept saying to

1122
01:12:36,036 --> 01:12:38,036
Speaker 1: him while we were making the record, like those those

1123
01:12:38,076 --> 01:12:40,156
Speaker 1: were the most exciting parts for me in the whole

1124
01:12:40,196 --> 01:12:42,716
Speaker 1: writing process, was those days that Anthony would come in

1125
01:12:43,076 --> 01:12:46,276
Speaker 1: with a vocal because I didn't know what to expect

1126
01:12:46,316 --> 01:12:48,076
Speaker 1: and and it just all of a sudden, it would

1127
01:12:48,116 --> 01:12:50,596
Speaker 1: sound like a record to me, you know. And before that,

1128
01:12:50,716 --> 01:12:52,756
Speaker 1: it just sounds like an idea for a song, you know.

1129
01:12:53,436 --> 01:12:56,476
Speaker 1: And that excitement that I feel when I hear him

1130
01:12:56,676 --> 01:12:58,876
Speaker 1: singing it, I don't have to think about anything. All

1131
01:12:58,876 --> 01:13:01,076
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I know, Okay, I'm gonna play this

1132
01:13:01,156 --> 01:13:03,236
Speaker 1: guitar part at this part. I'm gonna play this guitar

1133
01:13:03,316 --> 01:13:05,796
Speaker 1: part at that part, like the way I'm switching guitar

1134
01:13:05,836 --> 01:13:08,396
Speaker 1: parts in the verse. That all just happened automatically once

1135
01:13:08,436 --> 01:13:10,796
Speaker 1: I heard Anthony coming in with what he was going

1136
01:13:10,876 --> 01:13:14,116
Speaker 1: to do. You know, it's a really exciting kind of

1137
01:13:14,316 --> 01:13:17,556
Speaker 1: osmosis that takes place between us when that happens, because

1138
01:13:17,596 --> 01:13:21,516
Speaker 1: it doesn't it's just something gets transferred to me, completely

1139
01:13:21,556 --> 01:13:24,636
Speaker 1: separate from the actual melody that he's singing, you know,

1140
01:13:24,716 --> 01:13:26,716
Speaker 1: in the words that he came up with. It's just like,

1141
01:13:27,156 --> 01:13:30,196
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, my own part comes completely into focus,

1142
01:13:30,276 --> 01:13:32,276
Speaker 1: and it couldn't be any other way than what it

1143
01:13:32,396 --> 01:13:36,196
Speaker 1: is right at that moment that I'm first hearing his vocal. Yeah. Cool.

1144
01:13:36,676 --> 01:13:38,676
Speaker 1: That's a nice memory I have of that one, because

1145
01:13:38,836 --> 01:13:41,436
Speaker 1: because I hadn't thought much of that song throughout its

1146
01:13:41,556 --> 01:13:44,276
Speaker 1: various stages leading to what it became. And I remember

1147
01:13:44,356 --> 01:13:48,876
Speaker 1: that night because we were recording every rehearsal and listening

1148
01:13:48,916 --> 01:13:53,396
Speaker 1: to them at night, and when that song came on

1149
01:13:53,556 --> 01:13:55,596
Speaker 1: with his vocal, I was just I danced all over

1150
01:13:55,716 --> 01:13:58,036
Speaker 1: my living room, like multiple times to it. I was

1151
01:13:58,076 --> 01:14:02,796
Speaker 1: so excited. It feels like a quintessential chili pepper song.

1152
01:14:02,916 --> 01:14:06,876
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. I love it. I can't imagine another artist

1153
01:14:07,036 --> 01:14:10,196
Speaker 1: making that song. It's just such a signature part of it.

1154
01:14:10,636 --> 01:14:13,076
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like any chili pepper songs I've heard before,

1155
01:14:13,516 --> 01:14:18,876
Speaker 1: yet it's so represents what the band does that it's

1156
01:14:18,956 --> 01:14:22,316
Speaker 1: just scratches the chili pepper itch in a new way,

1157
01:14:22,356 --> 01:14:25,476
Speaker 1: and I love it, Anthony. Before we Go, John spent

1158
01:14:25,716 --> 01:14:28,076
Speaker 1: a good deal of time talking about punk rock because

1159
01:14:28,356 --> 01:14:31,716
Speaker 1: he started in punk rock. It's an energy he brought

1160
01:14:31,796 --> 01:14:36,076
Speaker 1: to this project. And tell us about your relationship to

1161
01:14:36,156 --> 01:14:41,196
Speaker 1: punk rock and from your perspective, the band's relationship to

1162
01:14:41,276 --> 01:14:45,636
Speaker 1: punk rock. Well, I'm pretty sure that it defies any

1163
01:14:45,716 --> 01:14:50,236
Speaker 1: sort of a verbal description, since it is such a

1164
01:14:51,196 --> 01:14:55,916
Speaker 1: visceral experience. I mean, my relationship to punk rock is

1165
01:14:55,956 --> 01:15:00,236
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing. It happened, It certainly happened without me

1166
01:15:00,396 --> 01:15:05,836
Speaker 1: being conscious of it. Was I never thought to myself, oh,

1167
01:15:05,916 --> 01:15:10,756
Speaker 1: this is punk rock. I just show up and was

1168
01:15:11,596 --> 01:15:15,156
Speaker 1: very kind of peripherally a part of something that was

1169
01:15:15,196 --> 01:15:21,876
Speaker 1: happening in la that felt good and scary and fucked

1170
01:15:21,996 --> 01:15:24,876
Speaker 1: up and in the moment and of the time, and

1171
01:15:25,596 --> 01:15:30,276
Speaker 1: oddly enough, my father, who would visit London regularly in

1172
01:15:30,356 --> 01:15:34,996
Speaker 1: the seventies, came back with the English girlfriend and a

1173
01:15:35,156 --> 01:15:40,676
Speaker 1: Sex Pistols record and maybe nineteen seventy seven or seventy eight,

1174
01:15:41,476 --> 01:15:43,716
Speaker 1: and he tried to get all punk rock on me,

1175
01:15:44,276 --> 01:15:48,116
Speaker 1: but really I think he was just trying to, you know,

1176
01:15:48,236 --> 01:15:51,516
Speaker 1: play with young people were into at that moment. And

1177
01:15:51,796 --> 01:15:54,156
Speaker 1: so I remember hearing the sex Pistols, you know, come

1178
01:15:54,276 --> 01:15:57,116
Speaker 1: from out of my living room when I was getting

1179
01:15:57,116 --> 01:16:00,196
Speaker 1: ready to go to high school. And I didn't really

1180
01:16:00,316 --> 01:16:02,716
Speaker 1: make the connection at that point, Like I noticed it,

1181
01:16:03,396 --> 01:16:05,276
Speaker 1: and I noticed how cool the girl was that he

1182
01:16:05,356 --> 01:16:10,156
Speaker 1: was dating, but I still hadn't you know, become part

1183
01:16:10,196 --> 01:16:14,596
Speaker 1: of that mix, like the British version didn't sweep me

1184
01:16:14,636 --> 01:16:18,236
Speaker 1: a wave away in a wave. And then I went

1185
01:16:18,316 --> 01:16:22,676
Speaker 1: to a daytime show at the Palladium where the Germs

1186
01:16:22,756 --> 01:16:24,716
Speaker 1: played before I got there, and then by the time

1187
01:16:24,756 --> 01:16:28,676
Speaker 1: I got there, Devo was playing and these girls were

1188
01:16:28,756 --> 01:16:31,756
Speaker 1: coming out of the backstage and they were putting safety

1189
01:16:31,836 --> 01:16:36,636
Speaker 1: pins through their face as adornment, and I remember kind

1190
01:16:36,676 --> 01:16:39,836
Speaker 1: of connecting the two things, like, oh, this music and

1191
01:16:40,196 --> 01:16:43,876
Speaker 1: these girls like wanting to feel alive go together, and

1192
01:16:43,996 --> 01:16:46,956
Speaker 1: so that kind of caught my attention. But I was

1193
01:16:47,476 --> 01:16:49,196
Speaker 1: in no way a punk rocker. I was like a

1194
01:16:49,276 --> 01:16:52,276
Speaker 1: little i don't know, at very best, like a little

1195
01:16:52,996 --> 01:16:55,876
Speaker 1: new wave kid in high school, you know, listening to

1196
01:16:56,276 --> 01:17:00,396
Speaker 1: the Talking Heads and David Bowie and a few other things.

1197
01:17:00,516 --> 01:17:03,796
Speaker 1: But when Flee and I started wandering up to the

1198
01:17:03,956 --> 01:17:09,516
Speaker 1: Starwood and really getting a true taste of the Los

1199
01:17:09,596 --> 01:17:14,476
Speaker 1: Angeles punk rock scene, I started feeling semi connected. And

1200
01:17:14,596 --> 01:17:16,516
Speaker 1: then it just became a lifestyle. Like the minute we

1201
01:17:16,596 --> 01:17:19,276
Speaker 1: got out of high school and became homeless and lived

1202
01:17:19,316 --> 01:17:22,476
Speaker 1: on the street. Everywhere we went and everyone we met

1203
01:17:22,556 --> 01:17:25,916
Speaker 1: and everything we did revolved around punk rock clubs, and

1204
01:17:26,756 --> 01:17:30,076
Speaker 1: it was kind of the tail end of the Circle

1205
01:17:30,196 --> 01:17:35,396
Speaker 1: Jerks and the mid level of Black Flag. And I

1206
01:17:35,436 --> 01:17:38,596
Speaker 1: remember seeing the Black Flag logo on spray painted on

1207
01:17:38,756 --> 01:17:43,036
Speaker 1: buildings and going be very careful at those Black Flag shows,

1208
01:17:43,116 --> 01:17:45,356
Speaker 1: like something could go south in a hurry. Those guys

1209
01:17:45,396 --> 01:17:47,916
Speaker 1: will kill you. But it was just like from gossip

1210
01:17:47,996 --> 01:17:50,676
Speaker 1: and talk that, like, you know, seventeen year old people

1211
01:17:50,676 --> 01:17:55,356
Speaker 1: would say. And then Bob Forrest of Thelonious Monster started

1212
01:17:55,476 --> 01:17:58,876
Speaker 1: djaying in a crash pad that Flee and I lived

1213
01:17:58,916 --> 01:18:02,036
Speaker 1: in that had no door, and he was playing us

1214
01:18:02,476 --> 01:18:07,956
Speaker 1: Black Flag Records on vinyl, and it was pretty profound

1215
01:18:08,116 --> 01:18:12,396
Speaker 1: because it was they were rewriting what was possible, like

1216
01:18:12,756 --> 01:18:16,516
Speaker 1: of something that had never been done before, and that

1217
01:18:16,836 --> 01:18:19,276
Speaker 1: energy and then fully ended up joining Fear. So I

1218
01:18:19,316 --> 01:18:21,476
Speaker 1: went to a lot of Fear shows. But at that

1219
01:18:21,636 --> 01:18:24,276
Speaker 1: time punk rock in LA did not have this definition

1220
01:18:24,436 --> 01:18:26,396
Speaker 1: of it has to be one thing. It was really

1221
01:18:26,436 --> 01:18:32,436
Speaker 1: about anything goes. Anything goes if you're expressing yourself and

1222
01:18:32,596 --> 01:18:35,236
Speaker 1: you're doing it in a way that does not pay

1223
01:18:35,276 --> 01:18:40,236
Speaker 1: attention to the musical norms of that day. It all

1224
01:18:40,276 --> 01:18:44,116
Speaker 1: went together so you could have a lounge punker like

1225
01:18:44,676 --> 01:18:48,196
Speaker 1: how Negro and the Satin Tones on the same bill

1226
01:18:48,316 --> 01:18:53,796
Speaker 1: with the Bad Brains and you know, so now when

1227
01:18:53,836 --> 01:18:55,356
Speaker 1: people think of punk, you know, they think of a

1228
01:18:55,436 --> 01:18:59,996
Speaker 1: mohawk and combat boots and aggression. But when we grew up,

1229
01:19:00,036 --> 01:19:02,756
Speaker 1: it was it was like X was punk, you know,

1230
01:19:02,916 --> 01:19:08,556
Speaker 1: the like the most storytelling, poetic kind of I don't

1231
01:19:08,556 --> 01:19:11,836
Speaker 1: know what they music is based in, but their presentation

1232
01:19:12,236 --> 01:19:15,596
Speaker 1: was so fresh that it was considered punks, as would

1233
01:19:15,636 --> 01:19:19,276
Speaker 1: the Minutemen, which you know had nothing to do with

1234
01:19:19,876 --> 01:19:25,196
Speaker 1: any kind of violence or dominance. It was just let

1235
01:19:25,316 --> 01:19:28,116
Speaker 1: it all out, you know, whoever you happen to be

1236
01:19:28,276 --> 01:19:30,396
Speaker 1: just let it all out and do it with your friends,

1237
01:19:30,396 --> 01:19:32,996
Speaker 1: and do it for free, and do it when no

1238
01:19:33,076 --> 01:19:36,476
Speaker 1: one's looking. You know, the Minutemen, We're probably one of

1239
01:19:36,556 --> 01:19:41,596
Speaker 1: our biggest emotional inspirations growing up during the formation of

1240
01:19:41,876 --> 01:19:44,556
Speaker 1: the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and we were lucky enough

1241
01:19:44,596 --> 01:19:46,596
Speaker 1: to plan bills with them because that's how that's how

1242
01:19:46,636 --> 01:19:49,276
Speaker 1: the punk rock bills were would be like Red Hot

1243
01:19:49,396 --> 01:19:52,676
Speaker 1: Chili Peppers, Fishbone, and the Minutemen, you know, none of

1244
01:19:52,756 --> 01:19:56,716
Speaker 1: whom really sounded anything like each other. I'm just I'm

1245
01:19:56,756 --> 01:20:00,876
Speaker 1: just wondering what that time was like. The clarity of

1246
01:20:01,156 --> 01:20:03,476
Speaker 1: punk rock then was different than we think back on

1247
01:20:03,596 --> 01:20:06,956
Speaker 1: punk rock now is interesting. It's helpful if you watch

1248
01:20:07,036 --> 01:20:10,036
Speaker 1: the Decline movie, the first Decline movie, we get to

1249
01:20:10,116 --> 01:20:14,276
Speaker 1: experience all forms of punk rock, Alice Bag Band, it

1250
01:20:14,436 --> 01:20:16,516
Speaker 1: was a wide variety. And I remember being in New

1251
01:20:16,596 --> 01:20:18,596
Speaker 1: York because in New York punk rock was not that

1252
01:20:19,476 --> 01:20:21,796
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing the Decline movie and thinking, Wow,

1253
01:20:21,876 --> 01:20:24,156
Speaker 1: punk rocks really different in Los Angeles than it is

1254
01:20:24,196 --> 01:20:26,516
Speaker 1: in New York. In New York it was, you know,

1255
01:20:26,716 --> 01:20:30,636
Speaker 1: minor threat, and it was just different in New York City.

1256
01:20:30,716 --> 01:20:35,316
Speaker 1: Trying to claim Minor Threat, Well, it's what we thought

1257
01:20:35,356 --> 01:20:37,236
Speaker 1: of It's what we thought of it. But you also

1258
01:20:37,316 --> 01:20:40,436
Speaker 1: had like the Ramons as your as your punk rock template,

1259
01:20:40,516 --> 01:20:43,876
Speaker 1: and yes, to some degree, like the New York Dolls

1260
01:20:43,956 --> 01:20:47,876
Speaker 1: and you guys were definitely early. And I never understood

1261
01:20:47,956 --> 01:20:51,676
Speaker 1: like the competition or the like I'm East Coast punk,

1262
01:20:51,956 --> 01:20:53,756
Speaker 1: I'm West Coast punk. Grow I was like it all

1263
01:20:53,956 --> 01:20:57,916
Speaker 1: was so meaningful and so different and so wonderful, and yeah,

1264
01:20:58,036 --> 01:21:01,596
Speaker 1: shout out to Minor Threat, who was definitely life changing,

1265
01:21:02,196 --> 01:21:03,956
Speaker 1: very much so for Flee. When we lived in that

1266
01:21:04,036 --> 01:21:07,556
Speaker 1: same house listening to Black Flag, Flee discovered Minor Threat,

1267
01:21:07,716 --> 01:21:11,436
Speaker 1: and it was an awakening for him. Asked to how

1268
01:21:11,476 --> 01:21:15,516
Speaker 1: to want to like be as a human being. And

1269
01:21:15,676 --> 01:21:18,356
Speaker 1: the first time we ever played DC, we were opening

1270
01:21:18,476 --> 01:21:22,836
Speaker 1: up for the English Beat at the theater and again

1271
01:21:22,876 --> 01:21:24,996
Speaker 1: I was going through this kind of heavily drug addict

1272
01:21:25,036 --> 01:21:28,476
Speaker 1: a time in my life, and the great Ian Mackay

1273
01:21:28,556 --> 01:21:31,756
Speaker 1: attended the show and I was so attracted to him

1274
01:21:31,756 --> 01:21:36,076
Speaker 1: as as a human being that I felt terrible about myself.

1275
01:21:36,156 --> 01:21:37,796
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Ian came to see

1276
01:21:37,836 --> 01:21:40,876
Speaker 1: the show and you know, on backstage, like you know,

1277
01:21:41,156 --> 01:21:46,876
Speaker 1: shoving chemicals in my brain, and he was the least judgmental,

1278
01:21:47,036 --> 01:21:52,276
Speaker 1: most loving, complimentary, like even though he was mister straight

1279
01:21:52,356 --> 01:21:56,396
Speaker 1: edge and you know, proclaiming his path. He came up

1280
01:21:56,436 --> 01:21:59,356
Speaker 1: to the van window as we were driving away, and

1281
01:21:59,436 --> 01:22:02,676
Speaker 1: I was like sweating toxins and he came up to

1282
01:22:02,716 --> 01:22:04,276
Speaker 1: me through the little crack in the van window and

1283
01:22:04,356 --> 01:22:06,076
Speaker 1: he's like, that was a really great show. I'm really

1284
01:22:06,116 --> 01:22:07,596
Speaker 1: happy I was here for that. Thank you for that.

1285
01:22:08,036 --> 01:22:10,236
Speaker 1: Good luck on the rest of your tour. I was like,

1286
01:22:10,556 --> 01:22:14,116
Speaker 1: what a sweetie. Like he stands for everything that I'm not,

1287
01:22:14,396 --> 01:22:18,636
Speaker 1: but he can appreciate something that he's not, and also

1288
01:22:18,716 --> 01:22:22,476
Speaker 1: embracing the kind of punk funk from the West Coast

1289
01:22:22,556 --> 01:22:27,236
Speaker 1: that was so different from the the established East Coast

1290
01:22:27,316 --> 01:22:30,796
Speaker 1: punk scene. Just a happy memory, just like my introduction

1291
01:22:30,876 --> 01:22:33,836
Speaker 1: to Ian, Like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna judge

1292
01:22:33,836 --> 01:22:38,156
Speaker 1: you in the slightest beautiful No, he did. He always

1293
01:22:38,236 --> 01:22:42,236
Speaker 1: did his thing, whatever it was, and would share what

1294
01:22:42,396 --> 01:22:44,676
Speaker 1: it was that was his thing, but he never expected

1295
01:22:44,716 --> 01:22:47,756
Speaker 1: it of anyone else. Yeah, John, do you remember when

1296
01:22:47,796 --> 01:22:50,756
Speaker 1: we went to see Fugazi? Yeah in San Francisco, you

1297
01:22:50,836 --> 01:22:54,516
Speaker 1: mean no, at the country Club? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

1298
01:22:54,636 --> 01:22:57,996
Speaker 1: early Yeah, Oh my god. Yeah, no, that was great.

1299
01:22:58,116 --> 01:23:02,436
Speaker 1: Unfour gets a Bowl. Yeah, man, yeah, so that would

1300
01:23:02,436 --> 01:23:05,116
Speaker 1: have been like eighty nine or ninety or something ninety.

1301
01:23:05,356 --> 01:23:12,436
Speaker 1: I think it was nine. Yeah, Yeah, that was really something. Yes, Yeah,

1302
01:23:13,236 --> 01:23:15,636
Speaker 1: those guys have been a huge influence on me on

1303
01:23:15,756 --> 01:23:18,956
Speaker 1: guitar as well. Like when when that album Repeater came out,

1304
01:23:19,076 --> 01:23:22,676
Speaker 1: there was there was things about the there's lots of

1305
01:23:22,676 --> 01:23:25,196
Speaker 1: points when the Red Medicine album came out. When Repeater

1306
01:23:25,316 --> 01:23:27,756
Speaker 1: came I remember, I was just felt like I was

1307
01:23:27,836 --> 01:23:31,436
Speaker 1: putting my own guitar style together in nineteen ninety, Like

1308
01:23:32,036 --> 01:23:34,996
Speaker 1: it was where I really started to feel like, you know,

1309
01:23:35,276 --> 01:23:38,836
Speaker 1: the combination of starting to work with you and and

1310
01:23:39,036 --> 01:23:41,316
Speaker 1: being more comfortable in the role of guitar player in

1311
01:23:41,356 --> 01:23:43,636
Speaker 1: the band and stuff, and I really just felt like

1312
01:23:43,756 --> 01:23:46,876
Speaker 1: there was some there was new directions being pointed to

1313
01:23:47,076 --> 01:23:49,756
Speaker 1: for the guitar on on that stuff that really had

1314
01:23:50,196 --> 01:23:53,116
Speaker 1: had a big impact on me. And and yeah, it's

1315
01:23:53,116 --> 01:23:55,876
Speaker 1: always stayed that way. I always think of them when

1316
01:23:55,876 --> 01:23:58,796
Speaker 1: we're writing tunes and play along with their stuff. It's

1317
01:23:58,836 --> 01:24:01,756
Speaker 1: just like they've done so many creative things with the

1318
01:24:02,076 --> 01:24:05,956
Speaker 1: with the guitars in particular, Yeah, like taking taking the

1319
01:24:06,076 --> 01:24:08,276
Speaker 1: essence of punk rock and turning it into all these

1320
01:24:08,396 --> 01:24:12,636
Speaker 1: unexpected directions and that sound thing that attracted me and

1321
01:24:12,716 --> 01:24:16,076
Speaker 1: Adrian Blue when I was a kid. In certain ways,

1322
01:24:16,196 --> 01:24:19,596
Speaker 1: they would just make all these sounds with the guitar

1323
01:24:19,636 --> 01:24:22,916
Speaker 1: and put all that reckless abandon into the instrument as well.

1324
01:24:23,036 --> 01:24:27,196
Speaker 1: That just like I've had many epiphanies at the moment,

1325
01:24:27,756 --> 01:24:29,956
Speaker 1: at moments when their new album had just come out

1326
01:24:30,236 --> 01:24:33,356
Speaker 1: throughout their career, you know where it's just like where

1327
01:24:33,396 --> 01:24:37,396
Speaker 1: it just completely changed the direction that I was going. Beautiful.

1328
01:24:38,276 --> 01:24:39,716
Speaker 1: Do you guys want to pick a song for us

1329
01:24:39,796 --> 01:24:43,476
Speaker 1: to end with? Something? Anthony, what's your favorite track on

1330
01:24:43,556 --> 01:24:47,676
Speaker 1: the album? It's a third way type for last place.

1331
01:24:48,676 --> 01:24:57,916
Speaker 1: Between these are the Ways, Herever After and Bastards of Light. Wow, John,

1332
01:24:58,156 --> 01:25:00,756
Speaker 1: if you were picking between those three, which would do DJ?

1333
01:25:01,196 --> 01:25:03,356
Speaker 1: I guess here ever After seems like a good one

1334
01:25:03,596 --> 01:25:27,996
Speaker 1: for this. Let's do it. I was bathing. I love

1335
01:25:28,116 --> 01:25:30,996
Speaker 1: my cousin. She was waving. I told man, though, bang

1336
01:25:31,076 --> 01:25:33,596
Speaker 1: the mind because I see no feature Saturday down when

1337
01:25:33,596 --> 01:25:35,956
Speaker 1: I want that tea, I don't know, because I got

1338
01:25:35,996 --> 01:25:39,516
Speaker 1: a big temper stick to to my rainbow side candy corner.

1339
01:25:39,636 --> 01:25:43,116
Speaker 1: That damn sing lepper. That's all bo, that's all. She's

1340
01:25:43,236 --> 01:25:47,116
Speaker 1: kinda get and make you wanna do fast. Now she's

1341
01:25:47,236 --> 01:25:51,516
Speaker 1: kinna get to make your still up time. She's kinda

1342
01:25:51,596 --> 01:25:56,596
Speaker 1: gis he in a feelings dance crying hill being out

1343
01:25:56,876 --> 01:26:02,156
Speaker 1: down then I know, but if finally just want my

1344
01:26:02,356 --> 01:26:06,556
Speaker 1: mouth features of food and even after that bumpy stop

1345
01:26:06,996 --> 01:26:09,076
Speaker 1: at the call of the boss from the Blacktop, che's

1346
01:26:09,116 --> 01:26:11,596
Speaker 1: your range. I better at the big style we danced

1347
01:26:11,596 --> 01:26:15,516
Speaker 1: that teetot girling back. Now she's go solo. He's kinna

1348
01:26:15,596 --> 01:26:19,556
Speaker 1: get and make you wanna go faster. Now she's kinna

1349
01:26:19,636 --> 01:26:24,356
Speaker 1: get make it steal up time. She's kinda guess he's

1350
01:26:24,436 --> 01:26:28,676
Speaker 1: in a hearing around then it's by hill being out

1351
01:26:28,876 --> 01:26:34,316
Speaker 1: down down, get out, give it up. She's that drumstone

1352
01:26:34,356 --> 01:26:37,436
Speaker 1: lows so you need get out leave it up to

1353
01:26:37,556 --> 01:26:41,196
Speaker 1: that liqua stone goals in the long bequeen bullistick meanjee

1354
01:26:41,276 --> 01:26:44,676
Speaker 1: beast with the mess up lipstick. My thing is blacktop locos.

1355
01:26:44,756 --> 01:26:47,396
Speaker 1: W get this is now, take my photo. She's gonna

1356
01:26:47,516 --> 01:26:51,436
Speaker 1: get and make you wanna go faster. Now she's gonna

1357
01:26:51,556 --> 01:26:55,836
Speaker 1: get and make it steal your kid. She's kinda gets

1358
01:26:56,036 --> 01:27:01,036
Speaker 1: in in a healing around. It's by hill being out down.

1359
01:27:02,236 --> 01:27:21,196
Speaker 1: Then I don't banging out with those daddy issues, hanging

1360
01:27:21,236 --> 01:27:23,956
Speaker 1: out with that chevron me doctor ross. So I let

1361
01:27:24,036 --> 01:27:26,316
Speaker 1: her kiss you that nick bit talk. Look at he's

1362
01:27:26,356 --> 01:27:29,516
Speaker 1: bit you big box covering on beat talk fasto cash

1363
01:27:29,556 --> 01:27:31,556
Speaker 1: when you're living in the boot box, kiss me out

1364
01:27:31,636 --> 01:27:34,716
Speaker 1: like boo tell food, dude, but bout now that's my Bootoo.

1365
01:27:34,836 --> 01:27:38,036
Speaker 1: She's canna get it makes you wanna go fast. And

1366
01:27:38,116 --> 01:27:41,236
Speaker 1: then now tee's canna get and make it. Tell you

1367
01:27:42,836 --> 01:27:47,436
Speaker 1: he's gonna be GISs. He's inn here down this by

1368
01:27:47,676 --> 01:28:47,076
Speaker 1: hill being out down. And I don't beautiful that I

1369
01:28:47,476 --> 01:28:50,356
Speaker 1: felt the influence of the of the fifties blues and

1370
01:28:50,436 --> 01:28:53,876
Speaker 1: the guitar solo it and I never did before you

1371
01:28:54,036 --> 01:28:59,556
Speaker 1: said that. But the the efficiency of notes and making

1372
01:28:59,596 --> 01:29:02,276
Speaker 1: every note really count and getting the most out of

1373
01:29:02,316 --> 01:29:06,196
Speaker 1: every note was perfect. It was a perfect example. Yet

1374
01:29:06,236 --> 01:29:08,636
Speaker 1: when I listened to it for all these over a

1375
01:29:08,716 --> 01:29:11,556
Speaker 1: year now, I never would have made that connection. It's

1376
01:29:11,596 --> 01:29:16,396
Speaker 1: fascinating to hear the roots. There's definitely not just the

1377
01:29:16,476 --> 01:29:20,116
Speaker 1: blues influence, but a fifties rock and roll influence. For me,

1378
01:29:20,236 --> 01:29:22,036
Speaker 1: that that was a lot of the main music that

1379
01:29:22,116 --> 01:29:24,076
Speaker 1: I was playing along with for a long time during

1380
01:29:24,116 --> 01:29:26,836
Speaker 1: the writing process. There were other times, like By the

1381
01:29:26,916 --> 01:29:28,356
Speaker 1: Way time, where I was listening to that kind of

1382
01:29:28,436 --> 01:29:30,396
Speaker 1: music and trying to write stuff like that, But this

1383
01:29:30,556 --> 01:29:33,156
Speaker 1: time I was just listening to stuff like that and

1384
01:29:33,436 --> 01:29:36,476
Speaker 1: studying it, but trying to think of it as if

1385
01:29:37,076 --> 01:29:39,876
Speaker 1: I'm in the sixties. I'm I'm after that, Like what

1386
01:29:39,996 --> 01:29:41,956
Speaker 1: do I do now? I'm trying to do something different

1387
01:29:42,036 --> 01:29:44,956
Speaker 1: from this, you know. And so the influence ended up

1388
01:29:44,996 --> 01:29:48,036
Speaker 1: coming through in unexpected ways because that song was like

1389
01:29:48,156 --> 01:29:52,196
Speaker 1: a Joy Division inspired thing. But when Anthony heard it,

1390
01:29:52,916 --> 01:29:55,396
Speaker 1: he heard it, I didn't think it had a chorus,

1391
01:29:55,636 --> 01:29:59,116
Speaker 1: and Anthony heard it as being a Buddy Holly kind

1392
01:29:59,156 --> 01:30:04,156
Speaker 1: of thing where the verse and the chorus are right

1393
01:30:04,236 --> 01:30:06,116
Speaker 1: up next to each other, almost as if they're part

1394
01:30:06,156 --> 01:30:09,036
Speaker 1: of the same section, you know. And so he wrote

1395
01:30:09,156 --> 01:30:12,956
Speaker 1: to it in a way that was fifties inspired, because

1396
01:30:13,076 --> 01:30:15,836
Speaker 1: that's that's what he heard in the music. But for me,

1397
01:30:15,996 --> 01:30:19,516
Speaker 1: that was unintentional, you know, the song had that. I

1398
01:30:19,556 --> 01:30:21,756
Speaker 1: didn't realize that I was writing something that had a

1399
01:30:21,876 --> 01:30:25,316
Speaker 1: chorus built into the built into the verse, which is

1400
01:30:25,636 --> 01:30:28,836
Speaker 1: a fifties format. Anthony, do you remember the first time

1401
01:30:28,876 --> 01:30:33,956
Speaker 1: you heard the groove, I sure do. First of all,

1402
01:30:34,036 --> 01:30:37,116
Speaker 1: that the solo that you spoke to at the beginning

1403
01:30:37,156 --> 01:30:40,356
Speaker 1: of this is my favorite moment of that song. It's like,

1404
01:30:40,716 --> 01:30:48,756
Speaker 1: all this tribal drum tension and the real release happens

1405
01:30:48,836 --> 01:30:51,676
Speaker 1: that for some reason, that solo punch as a hole

1406
01:30:52,476 --> 01:30:54,436
Speaker 1: in the giant hot air balloon and you can just

1407
01:30:55,356 --> 01:30:57,356
Speaker 1: let it all go at that moment. I love that feeling.

1408
01:30:58,036 --> 01:31:00,316
Speaker 1: I can't wait to do that song live because I

1409
01:31:00,436 --> 01:31:03,756
Speaker 1: want to feel that live. I remember hearing it and

1410
01:31:04,556 --> 01:31:09,436
Speaker 1: hearing my chorus melody immediately, which is always a lessing

1411
01:31:09,476 --> 01:31:12,596
Speaker 1: and a gift and a pleasure and a relief because

1412
01:31:12,756 --> 01:31:14,316
Speaker 1: at least I know what the hell I'm supposed to

1413
01:31:14,356 --> 01:31:17,756
Speaker 1: be doing on this song. And then I remember I

1414
01:31:17,836 --> 01:31:22,196
Speaker 1: think asking either probably John, like do you mind if

1415
01:31:22,276 --> 01:31:26,036
Speaker 1: I if I rap on the verses? I know that's

1416
01:31:26,396 --> 01:31:28,756
Speaker 1: kind of out of context with this fifties thing, but

1417
01:31:29,636 --> 01:31:31,516
Speaker 1: and he was like, no, no, no, that's great. You

1418
01:31:31,596 --> 01:31:33,716
Speaker 1: know do that. That'll that'll that'll be good. And so

1419
01:31:33,876 --> 01:31:37,076
Speaker 1: then I felt free to just paint a picture with

1420
01:31:37,196 --> 01:31:41,276
Speaker 1: words and not worry about melody in the verses, which

1421
01:31:41,356 --> 01:31:43,396
Speaker 1: felt really good because it is kind of an odd

1422
01:31:44,716 --> 01:31:50,516
Speaker 1: rub of rhythms, like an unexpected rub of rhythms. And

1423
01:31:51,356 --> 01:31:53,676
Speaker 1: when it was all written, you know, there's so much

1424
01:31:53,756 --> 01:31:56,556
Speaker 1: going on that really nobody paid attention to the lyric

1425
01:31:56,756 --> 01:31:59,756
Speaker 1: in the band, you know, because we keep moving forward.

1426
01:31:59,796 --> 01:32:02,836
Speaker 1: And then a year and a half later, you know,

1427
01:32:02,996 --> 01:32:05,196
Speaker 1: John is mixing and he's like, I just read the

1428
01:32:05,276 --> 01:32:08,596
Speaker 1: lyrics to here ever after, and I really liked them

1429
01:32:08,636 --> 01:32:10,836
Speaker 1: in it minds me exactly of what it felt like

1430
01:32:10,956 --> 01:32:13,836
Speaker 1: to move to Hollywood. When I left the Valley, I

1431
01:32:14,036 --> 01:32:17,956
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, finally you know the picture that I

1432
01:32:18,076 --> 01:32:23,116
Speaker 1: painted got noticed by the right person at the right time. Beautiful. Yeah,

1433
01:32:23,156 --> 01:32:24,476
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the time I read the

1434
01:32:24,596 --> 01:32:26,956
Speaker 1: lyrics when I was singing backing vocals, but I didn't

1435
01:32:26,956 --> 01:32:30,396
Speaker 1: feel that that song needed backing vocals, so I hadn't

1436
01:32:30,916 --> 01:32:33,076
Speaker 1: so I didn't really look carefully at that one until then,

1437
01:32:33,156 --> 01:32:36,556
Speaker 1: and it so it epitomized a kind of a feeling

1438
01:32:36,636 --> 01:32:39,076
Speaker 1: that made me so excited to be alive about the

1439
01:32:39,276 --> 01:32:43,316
Speaker 1: sort of sketchiness and dirtiness and you never know what's

1440
01:32:43,316 --> 01:32:47,196
Speaker 1: going to happen next kind of CD side of Hollywood.

1441
01:32:47,236 --> 01:32:51,036
Speaker 1: I for me, I at that time, in the late eighties.

1442
01:32:51,116 --> 01:32:53,996
Speaker 1: That was It was really the feeling that I hoped

1443
01:32:54,076 --> 01:32:56,516
Speaker 1: to be able to put into music one day, you know,

1444
01:32:56,716 --> 01:33:01,436
Speaker 1: And it makes me really happy to hear the way

1445
01:33:01,476 --> 01:33:04,076
Speaker 1: those lyrics go with that music. It worked out. I

1446
01:33:04,236 --> 01:33:08,196
Speaker 1: love that song. Well. Thank you gentlemen so much for

1447
01:33:08,276 --> 01:33:11,836
Speaker 1: doing this. Thank you for bearing your soul and sharing

1448
01:33:12,916 --> 01:33:15,676
Speaker 1: what goes on behind the music, you know, like what's

1449
01:33:16,516 --> 01:33:18,876
Speaker 1: what got us to what we get to listen to.

1450
01:33:19,116 --> 01:33:22,476
Speaker 1: I feel like you did a great job of filling

1451
01:33:22,556 --> 01:33:26,596
Speaker 1: in some color in the process that we never get

1452
01:33:26,636 --> 01:33:29,636
Speaker 1: to hear. We rarely get to hear. So thank you

1453
01:33:29,716 --> 01:33:32,556
Speaker 1: so much. It's the bearing and sharing hour with Rick Rubin.

1454
01:33:33,996 --> 01:33:36,676
Speaker 1: Nice to see you. Hopefully I'll see you on that

1455
01:33:37,316 --> 01:33:40,796
Speaker 1: mountain that you're sitting on soon. Great Please come. I

1456
01:33:40,876 --> 01:33:43,396
Speaker 1: miss you. I love you, miss you. I love you, John,

1457
01:33:43,436 --> 01:33:45,796
Speaker 1: I miss you, I love you, Love you. Rick. Thanks

1458
01:33:45,836 --> 01:33:49,276
Speaker 1: so much for this. Thank you, see Anthony, see you guys.

1459
01:33:52,116 --> 01:33:54,876
Speaker 1: Thanks Anthony Keatis and John Fusciante for sharing so much

1460
01:33:54,916 --> 01:33:57,756
Speaker 1: about their creative process as a band and the stories

1461
01:33:57,796 --> 01:34:01,236
Speaker 1: behind the making of their newest album, Unlimited Love. You

1462
01:34:01,316 --> 01:34:02,916
Speaker 1: can hear the new album and all of our favorite

1463
01:34:02,916 --> 01:34:05,636
Speaker 1: red Hot Chili Peppers songs on my playlist at broken

1464
01:34:05,716 --> 01:34:08,796
Speaker 1: record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our

1465
01:34:08,876 --> 01:34:11,916
Speaker 1: you two channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast,

1466
01:34:12,076 --> 01:34:14,956
Speaker 1: where we post all of our new episodes. You can

1467
01:34:14,996 --> 01:34:18,116
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is

1468
01:34:18,156 --> 01:34:21,556
Speaker 1: produced with help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday,

1469
01:34:21,836 --> 01:34:26,596
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, and Shangra Law Studios. Our executive

1470
01:34:26,636 --> 01:34:29,916
Speaker 1: producer is mil La Belle. Broken Record is a production

1471
01:34:29,996 --> 01:34:32,676
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others

1472
01:34:32,716 --> 01:34:37,036
Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is

1473
01:34:37,036 --> 01:34:40,676
Speaker 1: a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad

1474
01:34:40,756 --> 01:34:43,876
Speaker 1: free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for

1475
01:34:43,956 --> 01:34:47,076
Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like

1476
01:34:47,236 --> 01:34:49,636
Speaker 1: this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us

1477
01:34:49,836 --> 01:34:52,476
Speaker 1: on your podcast at Our theme music's by Kenny Beats.

1478
01:34:52,676 --> 01:34:53,596
Speaker 1: I'm Justin Richard.