1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,440
Speaker 1: Important announcement before we dive in. We would love to

2
00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:10,320
Speaker 1: hear from you, folks, particularly on your podcast review platform

3
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 1: of choice.

4
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,239
Speaker 2: Particularly particularly on Apple podcasts. If the spirit moves you,

5
00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,200
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear what the show means to you

6
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 2: in the form of a nice five star review.

7
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you've been listening to the show for a

8
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 3: while and you you like it, we would massively appreciate

9
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,080
Speaker 3: a little love in those review sections, comment sections, wherever

10
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 3: you can access it. We would just love to hear

11
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:29,479
Speaker 3: what you think.

12
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 1: Toss a coin to your witchers, as they say occasionally,

13
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,280
Speaker 1: and it does make a difference. Just know this, folks,

14
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 1: every time you give us some of those stars inter review,

15
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: our boss looks at a strange, occult necronomicon esque spreadsheet

16
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,600
Speaker 1: and says, we'll give them one more.

17
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 2: Evening, And sometimes an angel gets its wings and on

18
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 2: with the show.

19
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,560
Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

20
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

21
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

22
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 4: production of iHeartRadio.

23
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,919
Speaker 5: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

24
00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 5: my name is.

25
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 6: Don't they call me Ben?

26
00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, mission

27
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: control decands. Most importantly, you are you, You are here.

28
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

29
00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:40,520
Speaker 1: We're so glad you came over, fellow conspiracy realist. Good evening, Humans,

30
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,959
Speaker 1: AI Inspectors alike. We've got a special one for you tonight.

31
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,920
Speaker 1: It's for the spirits, the skeptics, and the ghostbusters. It's

32
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,880
Speaker 1: a little gooey, it's a little gross. It's a literal

33
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: sticky subject on me. Yeah, Yeah, We're finally doing something

34
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 1: we talked to about in a previous couple of previous episodes.

35
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: We talked about star Jelly, remember and angel hair phenomenon,

36
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 1: the weird stuff that falls from the sky series.

37
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,240
Speaker 2: Oh, how could we forget? It was a golden time,

38
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 2: It was a golden age, and the history of stuff

39
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,399
Speaker 2: they don't want you to know. A couple of weeks ago.

40
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:23,160
Speaker 3: And we've talked about ghosts extensively on this show, and

41
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,839
Speaker 3: photography and the history of attempting to capture whatever it

42
00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 3: is that the spiritualism movement was so into all those

43
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:32,799
Speaker 3: years ago.

44
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,960
Speaker 2: Or does all of that stuff the idea of capturing

45
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 2: somebody's particular color that they emit. They can only be

46
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,560
Speaker 2: captured with a certain photographic process crillion photography.

47
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I love it, and the idea of EVP like

48
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,360
Speaker 1: that famous Michael Keaton I think Michael Keaton film from

49
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,960
Speaker 1: way back when we also, what we see here is

50
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 1: a common theme, the idea of chasing some tangible proof

51
00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,480
Speaker 1: of intangible spirits, and that leads us to tonight's exploration,

52
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:15,840
Speaker 1: what on earth is ectoplasm? Exactly? Here are the facts.

53
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't know about you guys, but I think we

54
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,960
Speaker 1: should dive in straight to the cool part. Ectoplasm can

55
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: mean several things, but well that's a bit of foreshadowing.

56
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,280
Speaker 1: But for now, maybe we start with ectoplasm and the

57
00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 1: paranormal or supernatural sense, the slime that covers you know,

58
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 1: the breakout star of Ghostbusters slimer.

59
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I have questions.

60
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 2: I said that at the top, but like, how come

61
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,240
Speaker 2: the ectoplasm went from green to pink between Ghostbusters one

62
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 2: and two?

63
00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,800
Speaker 6: It's never really explained. I wouldn't know. I just learned

64
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 6: it when you said it. Now, Yeah, this lineman, you

65
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,640
Speaker 6: don't know Ghostbusters to it? This lime that fly but

66
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 6: I don't know the colors. Yeah, Oh, I'm sorry. Ben

67
00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 6: I forget. Yeah, well that's true.

68
00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 2: The slime and Ghostbusters two is pink, and they don't

69
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 2: really differentiate it from the slime in Ghostbusters one.

70
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 6: So it's a little bit odd.

71
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 2: That just kind of an odd contribution to the lore

72
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 2: without really much justification.

73
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,839
Speaker 1: Oh so not the slime on the character Slimer, but

74
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 1: the actual.

75
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 6: Slimer is still Slimer.

76
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 2: But he's barely in Ghostbusters two, if he's in it

77
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,080
Speaker 2: at all, I want to say. But it's like slime

78
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,039
Speaker 2: fills the sewers of the city and starts, you know,

79
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,799
Speaker 2: oozing out of everything, and if you go the carpathi

80
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 2: and I guess it is responsible. But it's an entirely

81
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 2: different kind of ectoplasm.

82
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 3: Oh wow, I can't remember. I can't remember if it

83
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,720
Speaker 3: has anything to do with actually conjuring any of the

84
00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 3: ghosts or like, do the ghosts come out of it?

85
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 3: Or is Slimer being made out of slime somehow ectoplasm?

86
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 2: It's like a byproduct, right, like of a supernatural encounter.

87
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ghostbusters one, We'll get this out of the way

88
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:58,160
Speaker 1: quite Ghostbusters one. It's it's always bugged me. They don't

89
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,600
Speaker 1: have a huge backst worry for slimer. But in Ghostbusters one,

90
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,719
Speaker 1: I believe as gooser Spoiler is coming to end the world,

91
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:13,159
Speaker 1: more spirits are gathering. And then in Ghostbusters two, when

92
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:18,480
Speaker 1: Vigo the Carpathian the Scourge of Moldavia or the Sorrow

93
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,360
Speaker 1: of Moldavia, the Scourge of Carpathia or whatever.

94
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,520
Speaker 6: When he's come guy in the painting right, when he's.

95
00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:32,000
Speaker 1: Coming back, they discover this huge river of ghost goo

96
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: and that can be charged with positive or negative energy,

97
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,919
Speaker 1: and then that also brings back a bunch of ghosts

98
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 1: we have spoiled Ghostbusters.

99
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 2: It is representative of what we're talking about today. And

100
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,719
Speaker 2: I guess maybe they go more into detail with the

101
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,840
Speaker 2: ectoplasm and Ghostbusters too, because you mentioned the positive negative

102
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,360
Speaker 2: charge and they actually like experiment with it and stuff.

103
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,559
Speaker 2: And Ghostbusters one it's much less of a plot point,

104
00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,600
Speaker 2: and then two it really is a big deal because

105
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 2: they find that river, it seems stuff seems to emerge

106
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 2: from it. In one, it's more of an afterthought and

107
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: something that you get stuck all over you when you.

108
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,479
Speaker 6: When a ghost, you get slimed. That was sort of

109
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 6: the joke, right, I've been slimed.

110
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, do you do?

111
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 6: You guys. Not Like.

112
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 3: My immediate thought when I hear ectoplasm now is of

113
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 3: South Park. Of course Crim Fresh?

114
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 2: Right, No, isn't it the episode No, but the one

115
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,119
Speaker 2: where he's covered in ghost go like with Randy.

116
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,560
Speaker 6: I thought it was the Crim Fresh I was a member.

117
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 5: Oh maybe it is, Maybe it is. I think of yeah, whatever,

118
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 5: whatever it is.

119
00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 3: Back in the day, I think it's season twelve, like eight,

120
00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,599
Speaker 3: maybe oh nine, and it was. Yeah, that's what I

121
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,600
Speaker 3: think of now every time I think of ectoplasms.

122
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,880
Speaker 6: It was a spooky ghost. It was.

123
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 1: It's weird because the term dates back pretty far. It

124
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:57,160
Speaker 1: was it was nineteen thirteen when a French physiologist named

125
00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 1: Charles rashe R I see came up with or he

126
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,119
Speaker 1: used this to describe something paranormal. It comes from the Greek.

127
00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,120
Speaker 1: For all our etymology nerds, it's a portmanteau of the

128
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 1: two words ectos, meaning just outside, and plasma, which means

129
00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 1: anything molded or formed. So outside molded or formed. And

130
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,080
Speaker 1: this was a huge deal. It reached its haiti and

131
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: popular culture.

132
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 6: It's hey evening.

133
00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: During the movement of a pseudo religious thing called spiritualism

134
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,080
Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, and we're

135
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,080
Speaker 1: going to have an episode on the rise and fall

136
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,040
Speaker 1: of that movement in a future evening. I think either

137
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, it might be here. It might be

138
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 1: ridiculous history because it's one of those Venn diagram explorations.

139
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did do something on that though recently, Ben

140
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,040
Speaker 2: I swear where we talked about the methods of kind

141
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,240
Speaker 2: of the hacky kind of methods that were used to

142
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,960
Speaker 2: take people in with mentalism and some of the tricks

143
00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 2: that were used, like in the Tables and the Peppers

144
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,080
Speaker 2: go moist illusions and things like that. I cannot recall though,

145
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,160
Speaker 2: which show we talked about this on or what the

146
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,280
Speaker 2: nature of the episode was, but it's all kind of fresh.

147
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 2: But I'm glad that you mentioned the origin of the word,

148
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,240
Speaker 2: because in my mind I was thinking of another term

149
00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 2: that's been in the Newslet lady is like ectopic, the

150
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: idea of like an ectopic prectic pregnancy. And I'm glad

151
00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 2: you have officially taken all doub out of my mind

152
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,239
Speaker 2: that those words are related, that it is just about

153
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 2: something that happens outside.

154
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, ecto as in something you're currying outside in this

155
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 1: paranormal context, Ectoplasm is what the three of us have

156
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:36,719
Speaker 1: been talking about here, a mysterious substance that is manifested

157
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:44,040
Speaker 1: by individuals with some sort of extrasensory ability, most notably mediums,

158
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: specifically physical mediums who commune with the dead or sometimes

159
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 1: completely non human incorporeal spirits. Which is an interesting thing

160
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 1: because these mediums were, you know, for the most part,

161
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 1: they were saying, we are in communication with a dead

162
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,840
Speaker 1: human being, but they would also sometimes be talking to

163
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 1: a sentient thing that did not exist on the mortal plane,

164
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,480
Speaker 1: which I thought was fascinating.

165
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:19,559
Speaker 6: It's a weird trip.

166
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:23,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know there were other categories of ectoplasm. There's

167
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:29,960
Speaker 1: teleplasm that's when the medium is emitting ectoplasm at a distance,

168
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 1: like across the room or in some stories, in a

169
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:40,240
Speaker 1: totally different locale. And then idioplasm that's that's when the

170
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 1: ghost goop molds itself into the likeness of a person,

171
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:44,680
Speaker 1: you know what I.

172
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,040
Speaker 3: Mean, yeah, or just some other you know, face, an

173
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 3: entire body in some cases. And it's weird stuff too,

174
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:57,200
Speaker 3: because it's I like, this idea of teleplasm like just

175
00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 3: shows up in different places because you can stories and

176
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 3: they are stories. Let us assure you of this stuff,

177
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,719
Speaker 3: whatever it is, we're about to describe it showing up

178
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,559
Speaker 3: on the medium, like you said, Ben, across the room,

179
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 3: on the table, underneath the table, in the belly button,

180
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 3: in the face, just weird in the butt.

181
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,520
Speaker 6: Oh oh, if you must.

182
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 2: You guys, remember that line in True Detective Season one

183
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 2: where Cole where rust Cole says, I smell the psychosphere

184
00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 2: and then his partner thinks he's saying he smells a

185
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,679
Speaker 2: psycho's sphere. And for the longest time I thought that

186
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,920
Speaker 2: was because the subtitles say that, But psychosphere is a

187
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:44,200
Speaker 2: thing that refers to it's like the sphere surrounding psychic energy.

188
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 6: And reality around the Earth.

189
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,120
Speaker 2: And I think that term psychoplasm ban that you mentioned

190
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 2: probably pertains to that. The idea of this being some

191
00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 2: sort of byproduct of these this sort of clustered bubble

192
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 2: of like supernatural energy, I guess right.

193
00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:05,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, being the light fantastic, right, Going from from

194
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:10,520
Speaker 1: everything that science tells humanity death is a one way street, right,

195
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 1: and two from a you know, the idea of scientifically

196
00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,280
Speaker 1: exploring allegations of the afterlife and the paranormal, you would

197
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:26,120
Speaker 1: want as a scientist, physical reproducible, measurable proof, something tangible

198
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:32,560
Speaker 1: of returning from beyond death, and so ectoplasm or ecto

199
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: as the cool kids called it, not to be confused

200
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,680
Speaker 1: with ecto cooler.

201
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 6: It was.

202
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,800
Speaker 1: It was for many people, many very intelligent people. It

203
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 1: was considered the smoking gun of the afterlife, of proof

204
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 1: of something beyond the physical plane. And if you you

205
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,000
Speaker 1: can see pictures of this, and as as you were saying, Matt,

206
00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,680
Speaker 1: you can read all sorts of stories and anecdotes. Uh,

207
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 1: and when you see the photographs it, uh, maybe we're

208
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,720
Speaker 1: spoiled in the world of special effects and CGI. But

209
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:15,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't exactly take your breath away. It's kind of

210
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: a gauzy substance and usually it comes from some orifice

211
00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: of the medium's body. And it's cool because it's like, yeah,

212
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,880
Speaker 1: it's like symbiat suit in comic books, right, like the

213
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: venom symbia.

214
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,959
Speaker 6: It coats the The.

215
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,320
Speaker 1: Idea is it coats the spirit, right, like a like

216
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: a translucent mech.

217
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,440
Speaker 3: Well, it's almost like it is the medium, the physical

218
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 3: medium through which the spirit plane can enter this realm.

219
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,000
Speaker 5: Like that's kind of the idea. It's it's I was

220
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:49,400
Speaker 5: trying to.

221
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:50,760
Speaker 3: Come up with a metaphor, and ill I have one

222
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 3: dot if you guys have been thinking about it, but

223
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:57,040
Speaker 3: likelub well almost but the idea of you need to

224
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,959
Speaker 3: be covered in this stuff in order to get through

225
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 3: through a barrier of some sort.

226
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 2: I know, there's this stuff that people like stunt actors

227
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,960
Speaker 2: when they set themselves on fire in movies, they coat

228
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,439
Speaker 2: their skin with this particular type of material that keeps

229
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 2: the fire from actually touching them.

230
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,120
Speaker 6: It's like the reverse of that kind of I guess

231
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,480
Speaker 6: in a way. I mean, you know, I think that

232
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,280
Speaker 6: I think that gibes that tracks.

233
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 1: There's also from the idea of tangible manifestation of otherwise

234
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,400
Speaker 1: invisible energy. You could think of the way that you

235
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 1: can see sound waves by vibrations in sand, Like if

236
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,080
Speaker 1: you've ever seen that experiment where there's a disk of

237
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,199
Speaker 1: sand and then people start playing sounds and you can

238
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,200
Speaker 1: sound Yeah, yeah, you can see the waves of sound

239
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: reflected there.

240
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 2: I think between those two we pretty much got it. Yeah,

241
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 2: because it is I see what you're getting at mad Itism.

242
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 2: That's a little hard to put into words because it's

243
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,880
Speaker 2: like a it's something it's almost like a space suit

244
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 2: in a way. It allows you to traverse a particular

245
00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,480
Speaker 2: boundary that you should not be able to exist in.

246
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 2: Like it's almost like without this stuff, the ghosts either

247
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 2: couldn't make it. The spirits couldn't either make it into

248
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 2: this realm or this plane, or they would they would

249
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 2: perish in some.

250
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 6: Way, or they couldn't be perceived.

251
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the other thing.

252
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:26,200
Speaker 3: The other thought is that when one of these beings, otherworldly, spiritual, ghost, whatever,

253
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 3: when they show up in our physical realm, this is

254
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 3: what they leave behind.

255
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,960
Speaker 2: What they're wearing that allows them to be perceived at

256
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,840
Speaker 2: all too, right.

257
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 1: Like their fingerprints or the way that you can see

258
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 1: you can see human oils after flesh touches glass. It's

259
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,440
Speaker 1: kind of a residue. And then like to make a

260
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: I'll dumb it down because I think this is maybe

261
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 1: this is the dumbest example I can think of. It's

262
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,120
Speaker 1: why people throw sheets over ghost the laziest ghost costume

263
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 1: in the history of Halloween. Now that you have the

264
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 1: sheet on, you can see the thing.

265
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's a whole big sequence at the end

266
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 2: of it follows where they're in this school swimming pool

267
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 2: to the gym and they.

268
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 6: Have to follow the ghost around.

269
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 2: They keep throwing stuff over it so they can like

270
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,720
Speaker 2: track it, and then they shoot it because I guess

271
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,600
Speaker 2: you can shoot ghosts in modern movies.

272
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 3: It's interesting that we're describing it as gauzy because that

273
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,760
Speaker 3: is where like that is how it has been described

274
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:31,160
Speaker 3: a bunch, but there's almost another another version of it

275
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,360
Speaker 3: that is more And you described it as lubeanole like

276
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 3: a but almost as a louby substance, almost translucent, slightly white.

277
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 3: Hesitating talking about other excretions of the human body here,

278
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 3: because that is kind of the way it's described in

279
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 3: other instances.

280
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 1: Milk going bad. Almost it's like an off AIRYA product.

281
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because what's that gross Japanese fermented soybean ben Nato Nato. Yeah,

282
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,880
Speaker 2: it has kind of that tacky like it gets stuck

283
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 2: on your fingers, you know. And by the way, I

284
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 2: was saying lube not to be gross, but just the

285
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 2: idea of it helps you.

286
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 6: Get through something.

287
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,920
Speaker 2: It's like it is a protector, a protection that kind

288
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 2: of helps you navigate a tight boundary.

289
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,960
Speaker 6: Now that sounds like I'm being grosser.

290
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: Well no, no, you know, if somebody thinks it's gross,

291
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 1: then maybe it's time for you, fellow listener, and take

292
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 1: a self inventory, because they're all kinds of lubricants.

293
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 6: Now, I just made it weirder spiritual lubricut.

294
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,840
Speaker 1: I'm bringing up milky patches there, because that is the

295
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: phrase that Charles Rushet, the guy who coined the term,

296
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: used when he first started describing ectoplasm in a paranormal sense.

297
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,760
Speaker 1: He began by observing a physical medium named Usapia Palladino,

298
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,400
Speaker 1: very cool name, and her ecdoplasmic projections were to him

299
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,400
Speaker 1: white veils and milky patches, so he called them examples

300
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 1: of ectoplasm. And because every sidy is at heart a

301
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,040
Speaker 1: doubting tabas, people wanted to touch this, they wanted to

302
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,920
Speaker 1: engage with it, to take samples right, and to analyze

303
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,639
Speaker 1: those samples, which gets tricky later. But we have accounts

304
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 1: of people that you would consider otherwise skeptical who totally

305
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,440
Speaker 1: believe this, and you can read first hand accounts of

306
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,720
Speaker 1: them saying, I visited a medium. They extruded ectoplasm. I

307
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 1: touched it. It's cool to the touch, it was viscous,

308
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,920
Speaker 1: it was slimy, and everybody was on board.

309
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And well, we'll get into the reasons why it

310
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,560
Speaker 3: might be so slimy but also somehow you know, look

311
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 3: like a a gauzy almost cloth of some sort, but

312
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 3: it is really sticky and wet because of maybe where

313
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 3: it's been.

314
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 2: And that's interesting too, because a lot of historical burials

315
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 2: involved like shrouds and kind of gauzy coverings that would

316
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 2: be placed over top of the of the body. I

317
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 2: don't know, it's just an interesting connect and I'm saying

318
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 2: it's like means anything.

319
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 1: Necessarily, people totally leaned into it because at least part

320
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 1: of this so it was branding.

321
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, because again, we have a ton of proof of

322
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,680
Speaker 2: the existence of this stuff. I don't want to spoil

323
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 2: it right now, but this is sort of a lot

324
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 2: of there's a lot of Laura wrapped up in this,

325
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 2: and a lot of like historical telephone. I think those

326
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 2: early burial traditions may well have played a part in

327
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 2: what people have described as as having seen.

328
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 1: There's another aspect here. Folks like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle,

329
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,399
Speaker 1: who is famous for a couple of other things, he

330
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,639
Speaker 1: was also big into the investigation of ecdoplasm and mediums

331
00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 1: and spiritualism. He worked with a medium who was identified

332
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:47,480
Speaker 1: as ev c her full name Eva Correri, but at

333
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: first he was just calling her ever c. He touched ecdoplasm,

334
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: this medium created and he said, holy smokes, jeepers, you guys,

335
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,919
Speaker 1: that's what he said at jeepers. This feels like a

336
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 1: living material, right, I'm not just touching something cool to

337
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:12,239
Speaker 1: the cool to my fingers. The tactile sensation alone is

338
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,959
Speaker 1: not the end of the story. This is moving and

339
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,679
Speaker 1: responding to my touch. This thing, whatever it is, is

340
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: kind of like a gunkier version of T one thousand

341
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 1: in Terminator two. It's changeable, it's mercurial.

342
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,679
Speaker 2: Oh so reminds me of the black goo from the

343
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,200
Speaker 2: Alien films that has sort of a sense shant quality

344
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:34,119
Speaker 2: to it as well.

345
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, or X files, the black oil goo stuff. That's

346
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 3: very interesting that Arthur, I was gonna say, Arthur C. Clark,

347
00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 3: and that Arthur Conan Doyle like touched it and he

348
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 3: did like write about it. And it's a weirder thing

349
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 3: than even I'm imagining when I'm looking at these historical photos,

350
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 3: at least for this episode, where we'll get into those

351
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 3: and like what those look like specifically and why there's

352
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 3: some weirdness with the photography going on there and the

353
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 3: experiments and the quote controls and all that stuff. But

354
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 3: that is very that's very interesting to me because it

355
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,480
Speaker 3: would be i don't know, as a writer like that,

356
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 3: if that were real and that we're true, or if

357
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 3: you wanted people to believe it was true, you could

358
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,920
Speaker 3: come up with some very compelling stories.

359
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 6: Sure. Yeah.

360
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 1: I mean also, he's the creator of Sherlock Holmes, right,

361
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 1: And one of the mortal sins in writing fiction is

362
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 1: to write a character who is the smartest person in

363
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 1: the room, because it's so difficult to do. No, it's true.

364
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. Every time you see a

365
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,719
Speaker 1: super smart character that isn't actually behaving as though they

366
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 1: are super intelligent, it's because the smartest character in the

367
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: room can only ever be as smart as the person

368
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: writing that character, which is it's just tricky. It's very

369
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: difficult to pull off. So shout out to sir Doyle himself.

370
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: He wrote Sherlock Holmes, and he was still, for a

371
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: time very convinced about this ecoplasm stuff.

372
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 6: For a time.

373
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 1: We also know that kind of like how star jelly decays,

374
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: this stuff seemed to decay at first. It was like

375
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 1: clear phlem or snot.

376
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 6: It was almost divisible.

377
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 1: And again under those conditions that we just teased the

378
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: second and go, it would become gradually more gradually translucent,

379
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: from transparent to translucent, and then it would start darkening

380
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: and becoming more visible as the medium's connection to the

381
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 1: spirit world intensifies. Some people said it would glow kind

382
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: of like bioluminescence from beyond the grave.

383
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:54,360
Speaker 2: But.

384
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: It only happened in low light. The problem with taking

385
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: samples is it would dissipate very quickly under exposure to light.

386
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: Side note Also, we found a lot of people reporting

387
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: that ectoplasm had a peculiar strong odor, but no one

388
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: seemed to agree on what that odor is like. No,

389
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: there's not a single universally accepted description of the smell.

390
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: They're just a lot of people saying it kind of smells.

391
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 1: We're laying some really gross foreshadowing points here, folks. Now,

392
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: this like the brief history as we're diving in. This

393
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: can all sound somewhat ridiculous as we hear it laid

394
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: out in this manner. No, I mean, it's it's crucial

395
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: that we remember a lot of the proponents of ectoplasm

396
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: and spiritualism. They didn't think this was woo woo hippie stuff.

397
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 1: They didn't think it was a cult or in any

398
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:58,160
Speaker 1: way necessarily infernal. In their mind, this was a marriage

399
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: of science and spiritual world. The guy we mentioned Rashe,

400
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: for example, he's a legit physiologist at this time. He

401
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: later goes on to win a Nobel Prize for his

402
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: work on anaphylaxis. So he's not just you know, he's

403
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: not just the ghost snut guy.

404
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

405
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 3: Well, imagine there are rumors of folks down at this

406
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 3: building somewhere downtown that are allegedly conjuring spirits with their

407
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 3: methods and their boxes and their curtains and their seances. Oh,

408
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 3: we need to get down there and investigate. Let's use

409
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 3: scientific rigor to prove that this stuff's real, because if

410
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: it is, my God, this is world changing.

411
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

412
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they're these investigators, because that's what they were.

413
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: These investigators and enthusiasts are good faith actors. The height

414
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: of public interest in ectoplasm is inseparably intertwined with the

415
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: rise and fall of spiritualism. You don't hear too much

416
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: about in the modern day, but this has that people

417
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 1: felt like they were on the cusp the bleeding gooby

418
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: gooey edge of a breakthrough that would fundamentally change human civilization.

419
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: We're talking about the smartest people in the Western world.

420
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: They were convinced that if they took modern methodology right,

421
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: the scientific method, they could understand and finally answer the

422
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: fundamental questions of the human experience that haunt poor choice

423
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 1: of words, everybody listening tonight. What happens when we die?

424
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: Does some vestige of the consciousness persist when the body

425
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: itself becomes an empty house? It is a cool story,

426
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: But is.

427
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 6: There anything to it? Yeah, I mean sort of. We'll

428
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 6: get into that after a quick word from our sponsor.

429
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy, all right, fellow conspiracy realist,

430
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 1: that is a little bit of a fake out. Ectoplasm

431
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: is it turns out very very real, just not perhaps

432
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: in the way the spiritualist hoped or claimed it to be.

433
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 6: I think we could.

434
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: Look at two genuine examples of ectoplasm, and maybe do

435
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: you want to just start with the most boring one.

436
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 6: It's the one we can actually prove.

437
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 3: And for this one, let's go to biology. Oh, let's

438
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 3: talk more about ectoplasm also known as exoplasm. What is

439
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: that huh Ben, what's exoplasm, right?

440
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: Or ectoplasm, Matt. You know, it's positively telepathic that you

441
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: would ask that it is, as any person who's awesome

442
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: at biology mixers knows. The non granulated we're quoting here

443
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: the non granulated outer part of a cell's cytoplasm. The counterpart,

444
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: the granulated inner layer, known as the endoplasm. So it's

445
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: cell biology. It's kind of a bait and switch because

446
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 1: ectoplasm in the world of ghost means what we described

447
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: before the break, and ectoplasm in the world of biology

448
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: is a very real thing that is in so many cells,

449
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 1: an innumerable number of cells.

450
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 6: It's the outside goo.

451
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, it's like the cellular wall.

452
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

453
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: And this was coined by a guy named Ernst Haeckel

454
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century, so it actually is a

455
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: predecessor to the use of ectoplasm in the world of

456
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: the paranormal. And he, you know, he was super into

457
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: this phrase as a way of describing unicellular organisms like amoebas.

458
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: And just like you said that, the real ectoplasm it's

459
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: both a shield and sort of a transit platform for

460
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 1: all the stuff bouncing around inside a cell, which means

461
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: that if you are a human or another form of

462
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: organic life, you are absolutely riddled with ectoplasm. You are

463
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: inundated with it. You're dripping and drowning in ectoplasm right

464
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: now as you listen to tonight's program. I mean, don't

465
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: think about it too too much. If you're a jerpophobe

466
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: or you know, you get squigged out easily. But it

467
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: turns out we're all sort of slimers, yeah, dude.

468
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 6: In our own way. The slimer within.

469
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: Slimer within ghost is coming from inside the house. So

470
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: that's the boring one. But that is that is the

471
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: real ectoplasm we can prove. Do we want to talk

472
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: about the more interesting I don't know, is this interesting

473
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: or is this more of a downer?

474
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 5: It's a donor, but it's we got to talk about it.

475
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 3: So to talk about this other real ectoplasm, we have

476
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 3: to talk about some of the famous photographs. Just like

477
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: if you go back to nineteen oh six, there's this

478
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,959
Speaker 3: thing called the instantograph Belows camera, and it is a

479
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,640
Speaker 3: camera that was used in some of the most famous

480
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 3: photographs of alleged ectoplasm. And this is a pretty simple

481
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: machine that uses a plate, a photographic plate that gets

482
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 3: exposed when you expose the lens of the camera and

483
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 3: then you put it back. Then you close it right

484
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 3: after this plate has been exposed to light, and whatever

485
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 3: light goes through that lens and hits the plate, that's

486
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 3: what you get. Well, some of these plates saw stuff

487
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: that if you just looked at the photograph and you

488
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: weren't in the room, it looks I'm going to say it,

489
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 3: hella weird. It looks like this white, weird, gauzy, maybe

490
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: clothy substance emanating from a medium's nose or a medium's

491
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: mouth who's just sitting in a chair, sometimes directly in

492
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: front of a weird darkened box, sometimes directly in front

493
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,479
Speaker 3: of weird darkened curtains. Sometimes their hands are being held

494
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: by other people off camera. Sometimes their hands are even

495
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 3: like clasped to a chair or something so that they

496
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: cannot interfere and create whatever this thing is. But man,

497
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: it looks like it's just material like cheesecloth or linen,

498
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 3: some kind of like really thin linen or it often

499
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: it looks like fabric to.

500
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 5: Me, at least to my eyes.

501
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

502
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: The second version of real ectoplasm, actual ectoplasm version two.

503
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: We're happy to say there were genuine physical substances present

504
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: during those trances, those seances, other exhibitions of physical mediums

505
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,040
Speaker 1: at the height of spiritualism in particular, and we know

506
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: that from photographic evidence, like you're mentioning there, Matt. The

507
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: thing is, none of this stuff was ever proven, ever,

508
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: in any case, without exception, to be anything other than

509
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: mundane material with a heck of a lot of showmanship

510
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 1: and performance. Eat your heart out, Vents offer, Eat your

511
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: heart out, Billy Mays. Do you guys remember who Vent's

512
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: offer is.

513
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 6: I don't know.

514
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: Slapchop, guys, slap slap chop, Yeah, with the garlics or

515
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: the Billy Mays was the showtime the rotissary chicken guy, right?

516
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: I think that was another guy. Billy Mays is oxy cling.

517
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 6: Oxy clean.

518
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: But there was another guy that was like all about

519
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: the rotissary chicken.

520
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, case but.

521
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: But oh I missed that halcyon era of made for

522
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: TV commercials. And the showmanship of these physical mediums was

523
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: not too different, because, like you were saying, I teased

524
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: it several times. In some cases, this ectoplasm, we know

525
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: for sure was straight up cheese cloth in other cases,

526
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: it might be a fabric or textile of some sort

527
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: smoothed up with potato starch.

528
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 6: Or it might be paper. It might be.

529
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: Still cloth but with egg white mashed into it instead

530
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: of potato starch. Or it might be something I was

531
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: not familiar with called butter muslin. Butter muslin part of

532
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: my accent. I'm still learning English, not Muslim Muslin.

533
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 6: M U s l I N. That's like a higher

534
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 6: end cheese cloth.

535
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 2: It's that shroud material I was talking about earlier, that

536
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: kind of transparent, translucent rather textury kind of material that

537
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: you'd see draped over you know, bodies and you know

538
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: historical kind of burial ceremonies.

539
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 6: Yep.

540
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 3: And we're going to get into why. Sometimes it even

541
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: looked like it was coded with egg whites or just

542
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: biological material because it was hanging out in somebody's stomach

543
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: and or throat and or you know sinuses.

544
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was in their holes. Yep, it was in

545
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 6: their roles.

546
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: And the story of ghostly ectoplasm is inherently unfortunately, folks.

547
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: It is a story of cons and frauds. And that

548
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 1: was the stuff the vast majority of these mediums did

549
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: not want their audience to know. It turns out a

550
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: lot of these folks were quite adept at old school

551
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: close up magic, sleight of hand and to understand how

552
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: these conspiracies worked, because conspiracies they were. We have to

553
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: get our heads around two aspects of the con and

554
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: the first and I think for for all four of

555
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: us with a love of film and cinematography, the practical

556
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: effects are just amazing because we got to talk about

557
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: the case conditions. Just like a mentalist, right, just like

558
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 1: Darren Brown always has very specific conditions, or pen and

559
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: Teller always have very specific conditions, these folks were no different.

560
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it makes so much sense.

561
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: You're going in to attempt to scientifically study something that

562
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 3: has to occur under as you said, these conditions where

563
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: maybe for the medium to perform the act of connecting

564
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: with the spirit world, they have to let's say, get

565
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: inside a specific box, like a human sized box, or

566
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: let's say they have to have a table behind them

567
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: with specific instruments on it, specific things and items on it,

568
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 3: and there has to be a curtain that separates them

569
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: from that box, which could be maybe that's just how

570
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: it happens, that's how this person does it, but it

571
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: could also be a very a very calculated way to

572
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 3: insert manipula via either themselves or another person.

573
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: And all of these conditions, by the way, are non

574
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: negotiable circumstances.

575
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 5: Yes, so I can't do this without my stuff.

576
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: It doesn't work in the lights, you know what I mean.

577
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: And the fact that you're questioning this means that you're

578
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: non believer and you're kind of screwing up the vibe.

579
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: So if it doesn't work this time, it's your fault.

580
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 5: That's Harry exactly.

581
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: And that's kind of a conversation who Denie actually had

582
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: with people. Yeah, the manifestations often only occurred in very

583
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: low light, very specific seating arrangements, and some of these

584
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: conditions were placed on the audience as well, like you

585
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 1: would have to I don't want to call these people roubs,

586
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: but the participants were required to stay seated often and

587
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: they kind of had to kind of had a pure

588
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 1: monitoring system because you had to join around the table,

589
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: so you couldn't move your hands, you couldn't move your

590
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: physical location, you could not change your perspective, you couldn't

591
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: stand up and like walk behind the medium.

592
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 3: God, that's so important that the just the idea of perspective.

593
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 3: And we know this from modern close up magic, from

594
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: any modern magic television show. Right where we're watching illusions

595
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: Michael on the television, the audience is in a very

596
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: specific spot and with a specific as you said, perspective.

597
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: I think perspective is maybe one of the most important

598
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 3: even words to imagine and think about when we're considering

599
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 3: ectoplasm at all.

600
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's that's one of the big parts of

601
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: the next step in the con The practical effect of

602
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: the illusion is to make it seem as though the

603
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: manifestation is coming somehow from or through the medium, appearing

604
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: in the same sinity as though you know, it just

605
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: came in the room with you. That's fine, it's mids

606
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: you could say, you know what I mean, like, it's disappointment, right,

607
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: you're you're It's kind of like if you your parents

608
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 1: got you a car when you turn sixteen, like, hey,

609
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: we got you a car. Oh my gosh, thank you parents.

610
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: And then they say it's a Geo Metro and then

611
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: you go, oh, well, I mean.

612
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 6: It's a car. Yes.

613
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's a Dodge Caravan, okay, and that's fine.

614
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a it's a gremlin. No, what's one of

615
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: those like notoriously dubious cars of yesterdyear.

616
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: Gril pentol. So this was not peak showmanship. Peak showmanship was,

617
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: as we were saying, to have that ghostly substance appear

618
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: to extrude from the body. You know, now you've got

619
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: your twitching. You know, you've got your maybe some glossal alia,

620
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: speaking in tongues, some eolulations, all that kind of stuff. Ones, Yeah,

621
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: eye rolling, and then like you're spasming and all of

622
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: a sudden, coming out of your mouth there appears.

623
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 5: Ghost Yeah.

624
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: Hardcore mode is if you can get the ectoplasm to

625
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 3: emanate from the scientist who's there to study you.

626
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 5: Which I don't think it's happened yet.

627
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 6: What why, I don't know.

628
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 5: That's weird.

629
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, heck of a coincidence that. And here's the thing,

630
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't know we teased it here. We should just

631
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 1: say it for anybody who is wondering why we keep

632
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: mentioning the shiny appearance. Why does this stuff look shiny?

633
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: Because if you look at regular cheese cloth, it doesn't

634
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 1: have a sine, So where did it get the viscosity?

635
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 5: Snochine until you put it in your mouth for a

636
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 5: while and roll it around and then spin it back out.

637
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 3: Eh.

638
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 5: Sorry, that's true.

639
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: Regurgitated just like a feed in a baby bird.

640
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,760
Speaker 6: Baby bird, which.

641
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 1: Helps explain some of the spasms, right, because your flexing

642
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: your diaphragm.

643
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, are these ecdospasms?

644
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,399
Speaker 6: These are.

645
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 1: So this was a common practice and people were people

646
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: were doing this were quite talented at it.

647
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 6: Credit where it's a due.

648
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: If you did not know the mechanics behind this, and

649
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: the show was good enough, you might even if you're

650
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 1: not entirely convinced, you might think, well, there's something going on.

651
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 6: I don't know what it.

652
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: Is until you see people who get busted like a medium,

653
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: a Danish guy named Einer Nielsen who was exposed as

654
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: a fake when he was caught hiding at plasma in

655
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: his rectum.

656
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 5: Uh like cheese cloth.

657
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, he boofed it.

658
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 5: Okay, Well that's one way to do it.

659
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 6: I feel more.

660
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: Difficult though, right, Yeah, Well you can make yourself regurgitate,

661
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: but how do you get it?

662
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 6: Like, what's your sleight of hand at that point?

663
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 3: You know, of I don't know, core muscles, just shoving

664
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: it out of there. And I it's interesting because now

665
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about the interaction between stomach acid and cheesecloth,

666
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,280
Speaker 3: And I wonder if it had the ability to break

667
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 3: down some of that a little bit, but probably not enough.

668
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 6: Depending on maybe how long you kept it in there.

669
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is so weird, it kind of gross. So

670
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: we know that, we know we still haven't answered the

671
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: question that we're telling you some of the mechanics of

672
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: the purported substance. But what about the the idioplasm. What

673
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: about the stuff that wasn't just milky patches or gauzy veils?

674
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: What about the things that looked like people's faces or hands,

675
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, suspended in the air.

676
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 6: Is this you're missing child? Things like that.

677
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 5: I don't know.

678
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 3: They didn't have projectors per se back then, the same

679
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 3: way we have them. Hmm, how could they have possibly

680
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 3: done that? Photography plates that have been double explosed what.

681
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, what you might call trick photography, right, Yeah, Ghosts

682
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 2: were not proven to exist at this point, but magazines

683
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: were very much proven to exist, and scissors also existed,

684
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: so wasn't too difficult to cut out Like in the

685
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: case of Ava C that we mentioned earlier, she was found.

686
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: To use magazine cutouts suspended in the air in the

687
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: darkness with pins and carefully placed string, which.

688
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 6: Sounds dark in the dark.

689
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the key part in the dark and it

690
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: might sound like, you know, low budget acts of chicanery,

691
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 1: but we have to remember these practical effects are only

692
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: one part of the operation. The second aspect is arguably

693
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,720
Speaker 1: more important and more dangerous and can be weaponized. Today

694
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: we talked about the physical perspective, but the key to

695
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: really getting the grift to work was the psychological perspective.

696
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: In a very real way, these mediums were manipulating in

697
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: tangible forces, but they were manipulating the minds and the

698
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: spirits of the living rather than the spirits of the dead.

699
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 3: Yes, oh my god, do you guys mind really quickly

700
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 3: before we get into this the psychology, because that is

701
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: absolutely the most important thing here. Just when it gets

702
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: to the photography, when we're talking about those plates that

703
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 3: I keep kind of mentioning but not fully talking about

704
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: what you can do with those plates if you expose

705
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 3: them really briefly to something like imagine imagine someone in

706
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 3: complete darkness except for a small light that's illuminating someone

707
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 3: wearing all white or being painted white even or wearing

708
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 3: a white mask or having white gauze all around them

709
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: or lacey substances materials. Imagine someone standing in the darkness.

710
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 3: Then you use your camera and you barely expose it

711
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 3: to this light of this person in the darkness. Then

712
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 3: you close it really quickly again. Then you take that

713
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 3: plate and you transfer it into the place wherever you

714
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 3: are going to take the photograph of let's say the

715
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: medium or the person who was attempting to contact a spirit.

716
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 3: Then you expose that one fully. You are going to

717
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 3: have the literal light ghost of that previous exposure on

718
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 3: that plate. And no one may be the wiser if

719
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 3: they believe, at least if you did a little bit

720
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: of psychological work to make people think, oh, this is

721
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 3: a brand new photo plate that I'm now opening and

722
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 3: I'm placing into my camera.

723
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 2: Well, it's before people really were wise to a lot

724
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: of that stuff too. I mean right, yes, in terms

725
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 2: of like you know, now we know photoshop. Everybody knows

726
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: that images should all be just you know, viewed with

727
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: a grain of salt. But like back then, it was

728
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 2: a lot less you know, common knowledge.

729
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, you need to study how photographs are made and

730
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 3: how they work. You need to be in that in

731
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 3: a business or connected to a business likely that uses

732
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 3: photographs for some purpose, to have a full understanding of

733
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 3: how the light actually, you know, changes that plate so

734
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 3: that it creates an image.

735
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:54,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point, because it's still it's still

736
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: rarefied air at this at this juncture in history, right

737
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: to the degree.

738
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 5: We're talking nineteen twenties. Still in nineteen.

739
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: There's still such a new car smell on the technology

740
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: that even people who are seasoned professional photographers could be fooled, right,

741
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: because very few people knew the panopoly of techniques available.

742
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: And you could say, hey, I am a I consider

743
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: myself a pretty crackerjack photographer, and I can't explain this.

744
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean these people were in any way less

745
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: intelligent than anyone. They just didn't have the same familiarity

746
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: with a technology that's much more familiar to the average

747
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: person today.

748
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 2: Well, and it's all about intent too, I mean, these

749
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 2: are techniques that were employed in order to fool people.

750
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: I mean I took a dark room photography class when

751
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: I was in college, and I have a picture hanging

752
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: in my bedroom that I really like or took. I

753
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: was in a dark basement with no lights and had

754
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: a camera on a tripod and just opened the shutter

755
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: for a series of exposures and lit a cigarette lighter

756
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: and moved around the room. And in the image there's

757
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: like six of me and it's really cool looking. But

758
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: if you show that to somebody in these days, they

759
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,439
Speaker 2: be like, what witchcraft is this?

760
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 6: You know? Yeah?

761
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 1: Quite possibly, Yeah, unless you unless you were there to

762
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: explain to people, to the observer what happened, and that

763
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: would defeat the purpose, as you said, that would defeat

764
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: the intention of these of these mediums. And with all

765
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: of this, and Noel, I love the point about the

766
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: intention of the of the mediums and their colleagues or

767
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: their co conspirators. We talked about the practical effects and the

768
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: importance of physical perspective. We're going to take a break

769
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 1: to hear some words from spirits of our own, our

770
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: sponsor spirits, and then we'll return with the other more

771
00:45:53,800 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 1: dangerous perspective, the psychology. And we're back psychology one oh

772
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: one colon Grifter.

773
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: Addition, so, while it's certainly possible that a handful of

774
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: these mediums truly believed in their abilities, again, there's something

775
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: that we've talked about anytime this topic comes up like

776
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 2: they're not all grifters. There are certainly ones that like

777
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 2: truly believe they have a gift and that they are

778
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 2: sharing that gift with others and helping people. But then

779
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: the vast majority of them are kind of hucksters and

780
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 2: people that are trying to make a buck off of folks.

781
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 6: Insecurities and or you know, grief, and that sucks.

782
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 5: But there may be real mediums. We just haven't been

783
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:42,959
Speaker 5: able to prove it yet.

784
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 6: There a shadow beyond the shadow of dow.

785
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: There's no like done equivocal test for it, right right, Yeah,

786
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: And let's let's take a second there because we were

787
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: talking about this off air, so it could be a

788
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: little bit confusing. The folks that we're speaking of here

789
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: this evening are called physical mediums, and during the spiritualism

790
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: movement and even now today with some of the with

791
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,320
Speaker 1: some of the instrument free faith healing kind of things

792
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: that you see, you know, that's where someone lays on

793
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: hands and they pull out some gunk purportedly from.

794
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 6: A human being.

795
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,399
Speaker 5: That a whole episode we do.

796
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: That's a that's a kissing cousin of a physical medium.

797
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: So a physical medium here is defined as someone who

798
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: is a like door man in the Great Lakes Avengers.

799
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: They're a portal through which physical manifestations of the spiritual

800
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: can be seen well.

801
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: And therefore, you know, especially since all the things we've

802
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: said about what the idea of ectoplasm is, it makes

803
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 2: sense that they might have some that would come out

804
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 2: of their body because it's they are literally the ghosts

805
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 2: or the spirits are passing through them, and that's where

806
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 2: the remnant might the resident. I guess the spiritual residue

807
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: might end up.

808
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

809
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: In that episode, by the way, is called what is

810
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: quote laying on hands unquote If you want to look

811
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: that up, it's from September twenty twenty. But I know

812
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: I interrupted you well.

813
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 6: I think I got there.

814
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 2: Just the point being is that we certainly aren't trying

815
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: to say anyone who believes that they possess these types

816
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: of intuitions or skills are completely full of it. You know,

817
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 2: that's not what we're here to say or to prove

818
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 2: or disprove. But historically the fact remains that a vast

819
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: majority or a very large number of these folks purporting

820
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 2: to have these abilities.

821
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 6: We're doing just what I.

822
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 2: Said, trying to pray on people and they're you know, misfortune,

823
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: you know, So think about it this way. Your most

824
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: you know, ardent supporters are going to be people navigating

825
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: a significant loss, a dead child, a dead spouse, dead parent, whatever,

826
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: it might be, a needing some kind of closure, and

827
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: therefore there's that just absolute opportunit for that confirmation bias

828
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: and if you know how to play into that, you know,

829
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: the cold reading of it all. You know that we

830
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: see on these kind of Hollywood psychic type shows, which

831
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,240
Speaker 2: I think are ninety percent of the time absolutely bogus

832
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: and manipulative. It's really easy to see how someone is

833
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: very open to being manipulated in that way when they're

834
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: already weakened, their defenses are already weakened because of going

835
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: through a trauma.

836
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's absolutely it. As the old line from X

837
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: Files goes, they want to believe. And you know this

838
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 1: is very cold, but it's necessary to say. You can

839
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 1: see the attempts at grifting folks just by the content

840
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 1: of the purported messages. Very few returning spirits, for example,

841
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: say stuff like hey, I miss you and I was

842
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: bad and now I'm burning in hell. Right, very few

843
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: people give a terrible message about the afterlife. Very few

844
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,919
Speaker 1: people give specifics that could not otherwise be derived from

845
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: the sith level arts of hot or cold reading. And

846
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: so long as you don't look just like the photographs,

847
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,879
Speaker 1: so long as you don't look too closely at the

848
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: method and the message of the medium, these conversations and

849
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: experiences feel right, they feel reassuring. They're better than the

850
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: silence of the grave.

851
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,760
Speaker 3: Dude, did you guys see that movie from twenty either

852
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: twenty twenty or twenty twenty one called Nightmare Alley?

853
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: The gear model are so good and the original is

854
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: good too. Guys like the actual fifties I believe version

855
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 2: it's it's incredible, But I like the Gaiamo version two.

856
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: But it's all about these kinds of things. Yes, it's fantastic.

857
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 3: It reminds me a lot of exactly what you're talking about, Ben,

858
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: where it's just it looks into the characters that are

859
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 3: figuring out these techniques and figuring out you know, very

860
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,839
Speaker 3: complex versions to I mean, it is to fool someone.

861
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 5: In order to make money, right, that's the idea.

862
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 3: Fool and fool and audience people so that you can

863
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 3: make their money.

864
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:08,320
Speaker 5: You put on a show.

865
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 3: But it does make me wonder about I don't know,

866
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: not necessarily a motivations, because ultimately it is like a

867
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 3: spectacle performance that you're going to watch the way you

868
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 3: would if you were going to see a play or something.

869
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 5: In my mind, at least in some ways.

870
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: Or for the more atheistic amidst us gives you the

871
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: same similar kind of reassurance as a religious ritual would.

872
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, it doesn't have to be evil, right,

873
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: A panacea is not always given in bad faith, These

874
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: blue sky pills of the mind we could call them.

875
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: And also this might be kind of a hot take here,

876
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: but I'm still not okay. So the physical medium, ectoplasm,

877
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: spiritualism stuff, I'm confident that we can say, not easily

878
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: ninety plus percent of it is a bad faith drift.

879
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: But I'm still on the fence about spiritual mediums, like

880
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: I'm still on the fence about vibes or you know,

881
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 1: non tangible inexplicable messages and information and knowledge.

882
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 6: I like, I'm so.

883
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: On the fence about it that I am uncomfortable talking

884
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: about it on air. We know, I mean, we know

885
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: that there were grifters because the message was always reassuring

886
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: and always kind of hitting those dopamine triggers. Right, not

887
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: only can I help you talk to this person that

888
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 1: you miss so deeply and profoundly, but you can come

889
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: visit them any old time you like. You can talk

890
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: to them again and again and again, so long as

891
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 1: you bring some coin along with you, which is just brutal,

892
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:00,879
Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

893
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 6: Do you guys?

894
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: Ever, one example of very controversial people like this in

895
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: the modern day would be that guy John Edwards.

896
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 2: Do you remember it was kind of describing I think

897
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: he's a TV guy, right.

898
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 1: He was, Yeah, he was on Oprah, Larry King, Candy's

899
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 1: own TV show.

900
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to name names, but I worked

901
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: closely with a producer on some podcast stuff in the

902
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: past who had a background in TV I think, in

903
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: that exact kind of sphere that you're talking about, and

904
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 2: worked with someone very similar to this fellow, and was

905
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 2: absolutely disgusted by the whole thing and just described it.

906
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 2: And I'm not going to throw anybody in the bus

907
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 2: or anything, and I'm not trying to be like who

908
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 2: I have inside info, but this is a person who

909
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 2: worked closely and saw these tricks being plied and and

910
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 2: you know, and to be around a person like that

911
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 2: who probably pretty openly when people aren't listening and the

912
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 2: cameras aren't rolling, talks trash about the people that they're manipulating.

913
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:02,319
Speaker 2: Oh like that you imagine, Yeah, that's to the imagine unfortunately.

914
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 6: Can Yeah.

915
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: It reminds me of like the televangelist or faith healers

916
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 1: who have the little hidden earbud where they get information

917
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: about people in the audience and then claimants divine inspiration.

918
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, this shows us something strange

919
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: about this period of history. There are several reasons the

920
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: belief in ectoplasm is nowhere near as popular now as

921
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: it was back then, and a lot of it is

922
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: because the interested nerds who brought scientific principles to these

923
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: seances ultimately proved the falsity of these claims. Our boy

924
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: who coined the term ectoplasm in the paranormal sense rashe

925
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 1: was once the president of a outfit called the Society

926
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 1: for Psychical Research. They really wanted this stuff to be true.

927
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: They wanted it to be true so so bad. However,

928
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 1: because they were scientists and they were trying to be objective,

929
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,720
Speaker 1: they were bummed out over and over again. They found

930
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: sleight of hand, psychological manipulation, good old fashioned grifting, and

931
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: basic material science. Those were the things that Wind combined

932
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 1: and a certain recipe created the appearance of ghost. And

933
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 1: then they published it. Oh, there was a book burning.

934
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: We need to get to that. This is this is

935
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: a huge milestone because these guys who sought to prove

936
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 1: this stuff or investigate it and wanted it to be true,

937
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,240
Speaker 1: they just kept disproving it. And there was a book

938
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: that was originally published anonymously called Revelations of a Spirit Medium.

939
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: And it was like when a stage magician breaks the

940
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 1: big code. Is there like a magic code where you're

941
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: not supposed to explain the tricks?

942
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 5: Right?

943
00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

944
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: And like you know, I'm at the Magic Castle in

945
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: Los Angeles, which like a private magicians club. No photographs

946
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: are allowed inside, and they have like a really it's

947
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: a very hush hush kind of world. And if you

948
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 2: there was like a TV show where there was a

949
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: magician that would debunked a lot of those kinds of

950
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: tricks and he wore like a hood over his.

951
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 6: Head and didn't Yeah that's right. He didn't want to

952
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 6: be exposed. Maybe that was just part of it.

953
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: But no, it's definitely frowned upon, and you certainly could

954
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 2: get blacklisted from what is already a pretty niche performing community.

955
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 3: I would say that's why Penna Teller are household names,

956
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: because they would show that you can be tricked by

957
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 3: us and by other illusionists. Michael, and because this is

958
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 3: how sorry, I'm gonna do that every time for the

959
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 3: rest of my life because that show is so important

960
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 3: to me.

961
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 2: How much could have banana cross im Sorry, this show

962
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:43,959
Speaker 2: is just infinitely.

963
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 6: Quotable and applicable.

964
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 2: List is why you leave a note sorry too many?

965
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: But I mean so, that's why they're important, because the

966
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 3: would actually show you, like they do a trick with

967
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: opaque cups, and then they would do the same trick

968
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 3: with transparent cups so that you could see through and

969
00:56:59,480 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 3: see what.

970
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:00,400
Speaker 5: They were doing.

971
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 3: But it's also why somebody like Randall James Zwinge, I

972
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 3: don't know how to say it, Yeah, James, Randy why

973
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,240
Speaker 3: he was so important because he was attempting to show

974
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 3: there are no at least in his mind, there are

975
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: no psychic powers, there are no spiritualism powers, there are

976
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: no other powers. Because I am sitting here offering a

977
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 3: million dollars to anybody that can prove it scientifically, and

978
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: I'll give you a million dollars. You just got to

979
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: prove that you've got those powers, and it never happened.

980
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 3: But still, I don't know. I'm just going back to

981
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 3: that code, right. You don't want to show how trick's

982
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 3: work because it takes away from everybody's ability to pull

983
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:48,000
Speaker 3: those illusions off to either make money and have a

984
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: career or just to keep a little magic in people's minds.

985
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're blowing up the spot basically, right. And also,

986
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 1: just for a side note, I don't know about you, guys.

987
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: I completely agree with the Amazing Randy's mission objectively, but

988
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 1: I found a lot of his bedside manner to be

989
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: a little bit militant and unhelpful.

990
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 2: He's a guy with no I'm thinking of the amazing Jonathan,

991
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 2: the guy with the headband, And.

992
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 6: Who is the amazing Randy. It's the skeptic James Randy.

993
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 6: Oh of course.

994
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all have assigned Simpson's five cartoon images of

995
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: him on our walls that some listener or a colleague

996
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 2: or somebody sent us.

997
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 6: That's pretty cool. Sorry, I should look more into thee Tyler. Yeah, okay,

998
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 6: there you go.

999
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so thank you, thank you, Tyler, and we also

1000
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: you know again, I just want to say, like I know,

1001
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: his bedside manner, Randy's wasn't for everybody, but the mission

1002
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: is noble, that's the main takeaway. And what he's trying

1003
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: to do and what he spent most of his life

1004
00:58:55,040 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: doing was attempting to prevent people from being manipulated or

1005
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: built into further heartbreaking tragedy.

1006
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 6: So there is something noble to that.

1007
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 1: And to this day, I think as a state continues

1008
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 1: with the offer. Right to this day, no one has

1009
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: successfully proven something to the standards set out in that

1010
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: challenge or that proposition. Going back to the fall of

1011
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: spiritualism and the fall of ectoplasm as a popular craze,

1012
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 1: there was a book that broke the medium code. It

1013
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: was published anonymously at first. It was called Revelations of

1014
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: a Spirit Medium, and just like the books by you

1015
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: know or the performances by the mass magician or pen

1016
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: and teller, this revealed behind the scenes easily reproducible methods

1017
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: for creating a ghost, and the psychic industry in that

1018
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: rarefied spiritual air. They were super pissed about it. This

1019
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: was not a would look for them, so much so

1020
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,760
Speaker 1: that they bought up almost all the original copies of

1021
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: that book and they destroyed them on mass. The larger

1022
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: public like they censored it. They tried to erase it

1023
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,440
Speaker 1: from history because this was their livelihood. The public only

1024
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 1: learned about this when these two researchers, Eric Dingwall real

1025
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: last name and Harry Price managed to save if they

1026
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: found one copy, they saved it from destruction. They republished

1027
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: it widely, and that's when the public learned, Hey, maybe

1028
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: that's really not you know, my mother has passed away,

1029
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,680
Speaker 1: or my child that I lost, or my spouse or whatever.

1030
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: And the tide turned.

1031
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you have time and you're interested in this stuff,

1032
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 3: look more into Harry Price. There is an amazing article

1033
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 3: that goes into his nineteen thirties research attempting to use

1034
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 3: X rays specifically to investigate psychic mediumship in this kind

1035
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 3: of thing where there's either ectoplasm created or a spirit

1036
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 3: that manifests and using X rays to try and prove

1037
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,000
Speaker 3: that the medium may or may not actually have something

1038
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 3: inside their person right that they are using to fool everybody.

1039
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 3: Really great stuff. You can find an article on the

1040
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 3: website for the Science and Media Museum. It's called spirit

1041
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 3: Photography and the Occult Making the Invisible Visible.

1042
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: And if you want to see some kind of gonzo

1043
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,400
Speaker 1: fiction in this regard, if you're a fan of graphic

1044
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 1: novels at all, please check out BPRD and hell Boy,

1045
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,760
Speaker 1: which goes deep into the spiritualism movement or uses it

1046
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 1: as inspiration for some crazy adventures. I say, crazy adventures, hijinks.

1047
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,240
Speaker 1: It's deep stuff. It's maybe not appropriate for kids all

1048
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: the time.

1049
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: I was also going to suggest a movie that came

1050
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 2: out pretty recently that I thought it was pretty good call.

1051
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 2: I think it's called Late Night with the Devil, where

1052
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: it's like about like an exorcism that takes place on

1053
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: a late night show, but there is a James Randy

1054
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 2: esque character who is there like trying to talk and

1055
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: crap about the whole thing all along the way, So

1056
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: it's very seventies kind of vibes, and I think it's

1057
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: good if interested.

1058
01:02:18,480 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm clearly I'm cartoonishly in the demographic for

1059
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 6: the same thing.

1060
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I thought it was well done and it

1061
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: was entertaining, and it's actually got some humor in it,

1062
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 2: but it's it's definitely a bit of a dark uh

1063
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 2: exploration of these types of things.

1064
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: And so with the fall of spiritualism, which we'll explore

1065
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,720
Speaker 1: in a later evening, uh, the wave the tide turned,

1066
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: and the wave of belief at ectoplasm never fully returned

1067
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: to the shore of the public zeitgeist.

1068
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 6: So with all this in.

1069
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,959
Speaker 1: Mind, we can say the following, Yes, ectoplasm is real,

1070
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: But that answer depends entirely on what we mean by ectoplasm.

1071
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: A basic part of cell structure, for sure, an agglomeration

1072
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: of mundane materials exhibited under specific physical and psychological conditions.

1073
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: Apps of frickin lutely the physical traces of ghost eh.

1074
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1075
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 5: I haven't seen any.

1076
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 3: I've seen lots and lots of weird photographs of cheese cloth.

1077
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1078
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: Of course, that is unless you listening tonight, fellow conspiracy realist,

1079
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 1: unless you happen to have inarguable physical proof of spirits

1080
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: visiting this realm from beyond the grave and leaving tangible

1081
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: evidence behind. If so, we would love to learn more,

1082
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: reach out, tell us, show it to us. We can't

1083
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: wait to share it with the world, or just let

1084
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: us know what you think. We'd love to hear your

1085
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: stories about encounters with mediums and psychics, and we'd love

1086
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: to hear where you fall on the spectrum of spiritualism

1087
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: and skepticism. We try to be easy to find online.

1088
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 6: That's right.

1089
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 2: You can find us to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

1090
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 2: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group. Here's where

1091
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 2: it gets crazy, on xfka, Twitter and on YouTube with

1092
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 2: video content coming at you on the regular on Instagram

1093
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 2: and TikTok. However, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1094
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 5: Do you want to call us? Tell us what you think?

1095
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 3: Call one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system.

1096
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 3: When you choose to call, give yourself a cool nickname,

1097
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 3: and let us note at some point in the message

1098
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,760
Speaker 3: if we can use your name and message on the air.

1099
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 3: If you got more to say than can fit in

1100
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 3: a three minute voicemail, why not instead send.

1101
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 5: Us a good old fashioned email.

1102
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,720
Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every single piece of

1103
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. When you send a message into the void,

1104
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: we can all see it, and we all know that

1105
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: sometimes the void writes back. Be aware yet unafraid. Tell

1106
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: us what's on your mind. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio Dot call.

1107
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 3: Stuff, They Don't Want You To Know is a production

1108
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1109
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.