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Speaker 1: Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life,

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Speaker 1: just to touch to get you through.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, need too.

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Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Disgraceland the after Party.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Disgraceland Bonus episode, a little thing we

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Speaker 1: like to call the after Party. This is the show

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Speaker 1: after the show, the party after the party, the bridge

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Speaker 1: to get you from one full episode of Disgraceland to

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Speaker 1: the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On

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Speaker 1: this episode, we are talking about Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska, the

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Speaker 1: source and inspiration for the latest episode of Disgraceland, and

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Speaker 1: we are speaking with best selling author Warren Zane's about

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Speaker 1: his new book on Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska, entitled Deliver Me

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Speaker 1: from Nowhere.

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Speaker 2: And of course you get into a few of your

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Speaker 2: boss oriented questions for Warren, so.

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Speaker 1: Disc goes let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to a special edition of the Disgraceland After Party

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Speaker 1: Bonus episode. We got an interview for you today. I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited about this. Don't do a lot of interviews.

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Speaker 4: We do some.

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Speaker 2: You know, get a good track record, it's something you know.

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Speaker 2: Fifty percent of the time. I want to do interviews.

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Speaker 1: The other fifty percent of the time, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to do them, but I really wanted to interview Warren Zanes.

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Speaker 1: When I started researching the Bruce Springsteen episode of Disgraceland.

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Speaker 1: You know, you go through your process of research, you

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Speaker 1: start to look at, you know, what are the books

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Speaker 1: out there that have been written on whatever the subject is,

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Speaker 1: What are the documentaries, what are all the source materials.

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Speaker 1: You start to get a good list going of off

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Speaker 1: you're going to devour before you start writing, and excuse me,

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Speaker 1: before we start outlining and writing after that. And you know,

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Speaker 1: as I was in that process, I came upon delivering

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Speaker 1: me from nowhere the book on Bruce Springsteen. The only

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Speaker 1: problem was it wasn't written yet. So it's like, fuck,

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Speaker 1: this is perfect.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 1: In a way, I'm glad it wasn't written yet because

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Speaker 1: it would have been almost like too strong of a

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Speaker 1: document too strong of an influence on what I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do for this episode. You know, I've long wanted

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Speaker 1: to do a Bruce Springsteen episode, but there's there's no

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Speaker 1: real true crime in his history. However, in his songs,

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Speaker 1: there's a treasure trove of true crime, specifically on Bruce

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Speaker 1: Springsteen's Nebraska, and it's It was really interesting to me

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Speaker 1: because you know, there are the there are songs on Nebraska.

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Speaker 1: The first of all, all the characters on Nebraska are

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Speaker 1: sort of like on the margins, and they're they're kind

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Speaker 1: of they're kind of neither here nor they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: they're in they're they're transient, they're they're in motion, they're

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Speaker 1: they're going from good to bad. They're all over the place.

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Speaker 1: But they're they're fictional characters, and some of them are

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Speaker 1: are nonfiction. And I thought, Wow, wouldn't it be cool

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Speaker 1: if I if I could find some some way to

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Speaker 1: thread those characters together.

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Speaker 2: So that's what I tried doing.

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Speaker 1: I look specifically at the characters in Nebraska, the song

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Speaker 1: Nebraska that's on Nebraska, in the song Atlantic City, Johnny

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Speaker 1: ninety nine highway Patrolman, and uh, I think those are

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Speaker 1: the one Yeah, those are the ones I touch upon.

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Speaker 1: And then there's sort of this this this fictional narrator

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Speaker 1: that stems from it's sort of a from a composite

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Speaker 1: of Bruce's characters.

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Speaker 2: On the album.

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Speaker 1: Uh, he's kind of he's a mister state trooper. He's

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Speaker 1: all over the place. But he's He's the thread that

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Speaker 1: pulls all these guys together for me. And this was

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Speaker 1: a really fun way to do an episode. It was

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Speaker 1: a fun way to think about writing the episode. It

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Speaker 1: was a fun way to explore.

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Speaker 5: The the the the.

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Speaker 1: Creator of these characters, to explore Bruce Springsteen. And it

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Speaker 1: was a really fun way to fuck with the music

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Speaker 1: because the sounds of of the album Nebraska, which was originally,

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Speaker 1: as I talked about, intended to be a demo for

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Speaker 1: what became Born in the USA. Uh, the sound of

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Speaker 1: that album is so specific, so we were really able

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Speaker 1: to take that specificity of sound and fuck with it

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Speaker 1: in a cool way. It's so minimal and it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's so analog and kind of digital at the same

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Speaker 1: time with this this weird synth synth stuff on there.

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Speaker 1: So it was really fun to fuck with the music.

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Speaker 1: And I knew, I knew our guy, our guys Brian

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Speaker 1: and Matt would just crush it. So I'm really proud

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Speaker 1: of this episode. I'm I'm really fascinated with this record.

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Speaker 1: I think at in the final analysis right now from

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Speaker 1: where I sit that Nebraska is Springsteen's best album. I

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Speaker 1: think it's his his most most how do I say

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Speaker 1: this economic.

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Speaker 2: Most most forceful.

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Speaker 1: It has a point of view that is completely consistent

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Speaker 1: both in in what it's trying to say and in

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Speaker 1: how it says it.

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Speaker 2: There's no filler on this album. It's a shame.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of it's not meant to be a disc

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Speaker 1: that his band isn't on it. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: shit on the East Street Band or any of the

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Speaker 1: musicians who have played on Bruce's other albums. I just

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Speaker 1: think as a fully realized piece of art, you know,

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Speaker 1: when everything's said and done, three four hundred years from now,

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Speaker 1: when we're all long gone and there's no one to

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Speaker 1: defend it, I think this record will stand on its

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Speaker 1: own amongst you know, Born in the USA and Born

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Speaker 1: to Run and Greetings from Raspberry Park, or whichever album

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Speaker 1: you want to throw in comparison to it. Nebraska, to

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Speaker 1: me is the one. So with all that said, take

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Speaker 1: a quick break, come back in a minute with mister Warren.

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Speaker 1: Zan's literally the guy who wrote the book on Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: and I can't wait for you guys to hear from him.

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Speaker 5: One second.

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Speaker 1: Warren Zanes, Welcome to the Disgraceland. After Party bonus episode,

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Speaker 1: Warren not gonna put you on the spot right away?

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Speaker 2: Is Nebraska Bruce Springsteen's best album?

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Speaker 6: Oh wow, you are putting me on the spot. I'm

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Speaker 6: not sure because it depends on the day.

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Speaker 2: This is.

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Speaker 6: I was a Bruce fan from way back. I'm the

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Speaker 6: youngest of three, so a lot of records came down

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Speaker 6: the waterfall that older siblings send music down. And you know,

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Speaker 6: some days it's the While the Innocent in the East

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Speaker 6: Street Shuffle. Some days it's Western Stars. I'd say this

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Speaker 6: about Nebraska. There are more days when it's Nebraska than

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Speaker 6: any other record.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel that way as well, even though it's you

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Speaker 1: need to be in the right state of mind to

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Speaker 1: listen to this album, or.

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Speaker 6: You need to be in the wrong state of mind.

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Speaker 2: That as well. That'll work too, that'll work too.

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Speaker 1: As I mentioned at the top of the show, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking to Warren. Zan's his book Delivering Me from Nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Warren literally wrote the book on Nebraska. It's a it's

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Speaker 1: a book that's devoted to Springsteen's album Nebraska. Warren, I'm

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Speaker 1: about halfway through it. It is truly great.

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Speaker 2: I love it. I love your writing. I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: I read so much.

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Speaker 1: Music literature for for work, for researching these episodes that

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Speaker 1: I get I get kind of snobbish about it, and

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Speaker 1: I find myself unable to stop turning the pages. And

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Speaker 1: I'm just really fucking impressed. Man, congratulations for you so much.

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Speaker 6: Shake that that that means a lot. This was This

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Speaker 6: was definitely a project where I really felt myself in there.

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Speaker 6: And that's not to say I'm in the pages at

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Speaker 6: an explicit level, but you know, it's stories of troubled people,

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Speaker 6: and I'm still trying to figure out the nature of

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Speaker 6: my own troubles. So this thing just resonates for me

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Speaker 6: and has for forty years.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing to hear.

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Speaker 1: How do you find yourself at this point in your

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Speaker 1: life where you know? This goes from the idea of

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you know, wouldn't it be great

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Speaker 1: to write a book about Springsteen's Nebraska the actually doing

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Speaker 1: it with or at some times without Bruce's involvement. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know what the full involvement was. If you

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Speaker 1: can explain sort of how this came to be and

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Speaker 1: how the relationship with Bruce worked and what that dynamic

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Speaker 1: was over the course of putting the book together.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, first I would say it's it wouldn't be the

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Speaker 6: same book without his participation. The way he came into

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Speaker 6: these interviews, and you know, having read lots of them

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Speaker 6: over the years, I'd say it's pretty consistent with the

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Speaker 6: way he's always done it. He doesn't show up halfway,

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Speaker 6: he's not checking his phone, He's really in the room,

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Speaker 6: and if there's a question that he doesn't have an

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Speaker 6: answer for, he'll come back with a question of his own.

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Speaker 6: And the kind of vulnerability that he displays makes for

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Speaker 6: a powerful interview. So it couldn't have done it without him.

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Speaker 6: But the process, you know, there's the personal dimension that

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Speaker 6: I already referred to. I just had these questions about

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Speaker 6: my own connection to this record. Why for so many

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Speaker 6: years did this feel like my family album?

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's.

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Speaker 6: Obviously it's a troubled fing and I felt like I

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Speaker 6: fit right in. I wanted to know more about why.

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Speaker 6: I also wanted to know why someone who had just

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Speaker 6: had their first top you know, number one album and

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Speaker 6: first top ten single would make such a crazy career decision.

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Speaker 6: And I felt like I didn't know enough. So those

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Speaker 6: were the two things that really compelled me. The process was,

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Speaker 6: I'd been doing some work with the director Tom Zimney,

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Speaker 6: who does a lot with Bruce, and I'd met John

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Speaker 6: Landau through Tom Zimney's Elvis documentary The Searcher, and I

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Speaker 6: interviewed John for some related product and John knew me

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Speaker 6: from that, and so Tom passed along a very short

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Speaker 6: proposal and then John said, yeah, you know, from the

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Speaker 6: little I know, I can support this. And so John

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Speaker 6: then became my first key interview. And you know, at

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Speaker 6: the end of our first day together, he said, you know,

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Speaker 6: I I don't tell Bruce what to do, but I

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Speaker 6: will tell him I had a good time with you today,

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Speaker 6: and I think he might have a good time with

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Speaker 6: you too. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's that's pretty high.

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Speaker 1: That's high praise coming from Springsteen's John landa longtime collaborator,

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Speaker 1: manager and producer of The Boss himself. That's I imagine

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Speaker 1: that that greased the skids there a little bit. Did

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Speaker 1: it work where you were able to just you know,

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Speaker 1: send Bruce questions or you know, I saw that. I

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Speaker 1: saw that piece at CBS News did on you guys

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Speaker 1: where you're there in the room together, which God, I

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Speaker 1: mean talk about goosebump moments. You know, it's were you

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Speaker 1: able to just you know, hit him up and be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know what was that guitart using on

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Speaker 1: that track? Or you know, how did you get that

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Speaker 1: weird you know harpsichord sound. Was it like that or

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Speaker 1: was it all kind of like this.

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Speaker 6: Was like most of it comes from one long a

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Speaker 6: day session. Yeah, and so I had I knew my questions,

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Speaker 6: I knew the general arc that I felt.

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Speaker 7: Was right for this story.

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Speaker 6: I also knew he was going to change that arc

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Speaker 6: to some degree, but it was it was in a

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Speaker 6: long session. It's when you talk about that room. One

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Speaker 6: of the striking things about working with him is his

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Speaker 6: kind of sophistication in understanding material history. So when we

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Speaker 6: walked in that room together, we were in a material place.

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Speaker 6: We were in a space where something happened, and he

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Speaker 6: knew I was having an experience having been working on

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Speaker 6: this book for two years and we walk in and

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Speaker 6: it's still the orange shag carpets.

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Speaker 2: It was just reverberating for me.

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Speaker 6: But in the time of the interviews, when we were

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Speaker 6: talking about his childhood and growing up in his parents'

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Speaker 6: home for the first five or six years of his life.

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Speaker 6: You know, it's a place of unprocessed grieving. His aunt

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Speaker 6: Virginia had died at age six, and he was the

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Speaker 6: first grandchild. And in their living room, you know, they.

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Speaker 7: Were very poor.

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Speaker 6: It was a house that was kind of in the

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Speaker 6: process of decomposing the way he describes it. But in

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Speaker 6: the living room, over the TV, it was his portrait

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Speaker 6: of his aunt Virginia who had died. And right in

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Speaker 6: the midst of the interview, he said, we're talking about

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Speaker 6: that portrait, and he says, I've got it. That's the

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Speaker 6: one thing I've got. Let me get it, and he

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Speaker 6: sets it up. For the rest of the interview, it's

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Speaker 6: me here, Bruce there, Aunt Virginia there. And same thing

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Speaker 6: with when I'm asking about the equipment, he is, what

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Speaker 6: guitar did you use? He's like, it's the J two hundred.

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Speaker 6: Let me go get that.

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Speaker 8: And he set these things up around us.

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Speaker 6: And I think that's both his generosity and that's his

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Speaker 6: sophistication in understanding, Uh, you know, I'm in a book project.

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Speaker 6: How can I best help.

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Speaker 7: This person write this book?

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Speaker 9: And it's to set up these objects that have that

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Speaker 9: aura and that vibration and this is not every interview

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Speaker 9: is like this, you know, it's it's deep stuff, and

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Speaker 9: so would the book be the same without him.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not amazing such trusts that he had in you.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if I heard this or I

255
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Speaker 1: read it, or if I made it up, or if

256
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Speaker 1: I'm making it up. But when you did the book,

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Speaker 1: the Petty book, I heard the story was he contacted

258
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Speaker 1: you or you guys ended up in a conversation and

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Speaker 1: he felt that if he wasn't involved in the book,

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Speaker 1: you could write a more honest portrayal of him. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's so fucking rock and roll if that's true.

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Speaker 1: And if it is true, Bruce must have known that

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Speaker 1: and picked up on it correct.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 6: I don't know about that, because you know, when I

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Speaker 6: go in on a project, I don't talk about another one.

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Speaker 6: If there are any questions about it, I'll certainly answer them.

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Speaker 6: But I'm all in Nebraska when I go in on that.

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Speaker 6: But let me tell you about Petty, and this is

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Speaker 6: this really tells you something about how smart Tom Petty was.

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Speaker 6: We'd been doing a few projects, so he read my

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Speaker 6: Dusty and Memphis book and I kind of got an

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Speaker 6: email out of nowhere, and Tom would like to take

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Speaker 6: you to day. I was more a graduate student, you know,

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Speaker 6: I was looking at becoming a professor. I get this email.

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Speaker 6: Tom wants to take out the dinner. We had dinner,

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Speaker 6: and he said at the end of it, you know,

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Speaker 6: I often don't know where songs come from, but I

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Speaker 6: wrote one after I read your book, and I want

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Speaker 6: you to come back to the house and listen to it.

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Speaker 6: Now I totally wasn't expecting that. So he comes back,

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Speaker 6: he plays me the song down South from the Highway

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Speaker 6: companion record, and that started this relationship. We toured with

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Speaker 6: him back in the eighties, but yes, this was something new.

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Speaker 6: He was really he was seeing me as a writer

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Speaker 6: before I had the courage.

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Speaker 2: To see myself as one.

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Speaker 6: And then I did. I interviewed for the Peter Bugdanovich movie,

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Speaker 6: and then I did a companion book. I edited a

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Speaker 6: companion book for that movie. So by the time he

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Speaker 6: came to me about a bio, we had some history now.

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Speaker 6: But we were walking out to my car and he

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Speaker 6: was like, you know, what would you think about a bio?

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Speaker 6: And I was like, you know, that's you know, yeah,

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Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, I love this guy. And he said,

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Speaker 6: here's the deal, and he mapped it out in like

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Speaker 6: forty five seconds. It's your book. I give you full participation.

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Speaker 6: If you want to interview someone, I'll go ask them.

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Speaker 6: If they don't want to do it, that's their business.

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Speaker 6: It's not an authorized biography because anytime you see authorized,

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Speaker 6: it just means it's bullshit. So right, yeah, like he

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Speaker 6: was totally and he and then he just asked to

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Speaker 6: be able to read a manuscript before it goes to

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Speaker 6: publication and respond to things he felt he needed to

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Speaker 6: respond to. But he wasn't going to ask me to

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Speaker 6: change anything. And wow, those are the terms. And you know,

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Speaker 6: when I talked about Nebraska with John Landau, I said, hey,

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Speaker 6: just so you know, here's how Tom Petty mapped it out.

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Speaker 6: And John said that sounds like a good way to go,

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Speaker 6: you know. So there was Tom kind of in the

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Speaker 6: room and we did it. We did it the same way.

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Speaker 6: And you know, I feel really lucky and and it

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Speaker 6: matters to be trusted to say what I feel needs

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Speaker 6: to be said as a fan and someone who loves

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Speaker 6: this stuff, and as someone who's living, you know, a

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Speaker 6: writer a kind of an intellectual life in addition to

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Speaker 6: being a fan. I need the room to be able

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Speaker 6: to say something that might not feel great on their side,

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Speaker 6: but they still recognize as true truth.

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Speaker 1: Right right, well said, well said, And you can feel that.

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Speaker 1: I read the Petty book a while ago. I'm obviously

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Speaker 1: in the Springsteen book now. You can feel it in

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Speaker 1: those pages. You can feel the fan in you speaking,

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Speaker 1: but also as an intellectual. And the writing is so good,

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Speaker 1: and there's I want to read you something here. This

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00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,159
Speaker 1: is a good jumping off point here. This is a

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Speaker 1: tiny excerpt from the book. And I just love this.

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Speaker 1: I love the economy and the writing, and I love

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Speaker 1: it because it's it's subject matter that I know like

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Speaker 1: the back of my hand. Yet you put it in

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Speaker 1: a way that makes me even more interested and want

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Speaker 1: to keep reading. You say Nebraska was a cave painting

333
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Speaker 1: in the age of photography. You had to crawl underground

334
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Speaker 1: and through a few tight spaces to get at it.

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Speaker 1: Nebraska's production involved the absence of production. There's no producer

336
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Speaker 1: credit on the album jacket because there was no production

337
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Speaker 1: short of the act of saying, just put out the

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Speaker 1: demo and not everyone involved agrees. Who's at that first?

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Speaker 1: It's great, man, It's so good. It's so damn good.

340
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Speaker 1: Now back to the fan thing here, you know. You know,

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Speaker 1: I know you first and foremost, you and your brother

342
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Speaker 1: from the Del Fuegos, And you know I'm younger than you,

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Speaker 1: but I grew up. I was a kid, and I

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Speaker 1: remember so I grew up west of Boston in a

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Speaker 1: town called Clinton, Massachusetts. It's about thirty five miles west

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Speaker 1: of Boston. And my girlfriend in junior high, she lived

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Speaker 1: on this big hill in town, and if you were

348
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Speaker 1: at her house and you had the radio on FNX,

349
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Speaker 1: you could get it in where you couldn't get it

350
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Speaker 1: in pretty much anywhere else in town that.

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Speaker 2: I had access to.

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Speaker 1: And I would go up there, you know, and everyone's

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Speaker 1: got of you know, smoking cigarettes and playing Spin the bottle,

354
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Speaker 1: and I'm tuning in her radio, and that's how I

355
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Speaker 1: first heard the Del Fuegos, And sooner know I had

356
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Speaker 1: something I could talk to my dad about, you know,

357
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Speaker 1: and it was I Still Want You, which is off

358
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Speaker 1: of Boston, mass And I don't remember what year that was.

359
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 1: Years later, I'm working in Boston as a college student

360
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Speaker 1: and I'm with this old salty furniture moving dude who

361
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: I still know and love this guy, Joe Allenby, and

362
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Speaker 1: he tells me the story. Now I'm certain this is

363
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Speaker 1: just rock and roll myth and I've got it wrong.

364
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Speaker 1: Your book kind of told me that I had it wrong.

365
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Speaker 1: But you know, I think we're driving somewhere, we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the Del Fuegos, and he goes, yeah, there's a

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Speaker 1: story where they're on tour one night back in the

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Speaker 1: day and they're in the diner. They're in this diner

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Speaker 1: on the road somewhere, you know, on the Eastern Seaboard,

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Speaker 1: and Springsteen walks in and he looks at him.

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Speaker 2: He goes, you, guys look like you're in a rock

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Speaker 2: and roll band. I just thought that's the greatest compliment.

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Speaker 2: Then I read your book and I'm like, that story's

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Speaker 2: total bullshit.

375
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Speaker 1: So why don't you tell the real story, if you will,

376
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Speaker 1: about meeting Bruce Springsteen while you were a young kid

377
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Speaker 1: in the Del Fuegos.

378
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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's really funny, the Del Flagos. You know,

379
00:21:53,720 --> 00:22:00,160
Speaker 6: history doesn't remember that band particularly well. And I say,

380
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 6: fair enough. But even before I joined, like Sam Phillips,

381
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,479
Speaker 6: Sam Phillips of Sun Records, who first recorded Elvis in

382
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 6: a Rolling Stone interview, he mentioned the band like he's

383
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 6: interested in his band that Delphoe Goes then, and I'm

384
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 6: telling you that there was one single out before I

385
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 6: joined the band. Robert Plant does a Rolling Stone interview.

386
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Speaker 6: He mentions the del Fuegos like amazing. I wasn't even

387
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 6: sure who Robert Plant was, but so there was a

388
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,439
Speaker 6: little bit of a charmed quality that went for a

389
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Speaker 6: little bit and then you know, and then we blew

390
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 6: up our own house. But Bruce coming and playing on

391
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 6: stage with us was part of this. And we were

392
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Speaker 6: out on one of our first tours with our first

393
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Speaker 6: album out, The Longest Day, and we were playing in Greensboro,

394
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Speaker 6: North Carolina, and as it turned out, the E Street

395
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 6: Band had a night off and we're in our dressing

396
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Speaker 6: room at the Rhinoceros Club. It's one hundred and fifty

397
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,879
Speaker 6: seater that's about half full, and Nil's Lofgren comes into

398
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 6: our dressing room and that was a thrill and we were,

399
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 6: you know, we didn't really miss a beat before we said, hey,

400
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 6: would you jump up on stage? And then it was

401
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 6: just minutes later that Springsteen comes in and next thing

402
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 6: you know, we're on stage and we did hang on

403
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 6: sloopy and stand by me with him, and I remember

404
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,359
Speaker 6: turning around to my amplifier and I turned it all

405
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 6: the way down, not just like down to three, I

406
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 6: turned it to zero because I had some sense of

407
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 6: I want I don't want to participate, I want to

408
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 6: watch this go down, like, oh, I want to have

409
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 6: a memory of this. And there are so many guitars

410
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 6: on stage already.

411
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 7: It didn't matter.

412
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 6: And I really, I like watched it, and I watched

413
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 6: that room, and uh, there was so much joy in

414
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 6: that room. Like Springsteen, however big he was in that moment,

415
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 6: he was always uh, he's one of us kind of artists.

416
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 6: And so the people there were they were at a

417
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 6: spiritual event and I was seeing them and I was

418
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 6: seeing Bruce and uh, you know, I say in the book.

419
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Speaker 6: For the next two years, every interview, the first question

420
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Speaker 6: was what was it like to play with Bruce Springsteen?

421
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: And I waited till question four. So there were apologies, no,

422
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 2: but it was Look, it was.

423
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Speaker 6: It was remarkable, you know. And then and then that

424
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 6: tour we end up out in and that was when

425
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 6: we met Petty for the first time.

426
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 4: You know.

427
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 6: It was just like they were lining up.

428
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: Our heroes, amazing, amazing, so cool, so cool. You talk

429
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 1: about in the book, and this is one thing I

430
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: whiffed on in my episode on Nebraska. You talk about

431
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: punk rocks influenced specifically Alan Vega and Suicide, which not

432
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: really a punk rock band, but part of that whole

433
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: scene that influence on Nebraska. The album and it's it

434
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: makes so much sense, and you can hear how the

435
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: album goes on to influence a whole other generation of

436
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: punk and hardcore kids like myself. You know, in this

437
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: sort of latest examination for me of the album, I

438
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: really dug into some of the other influences that if.

439
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: You do wouldn't mind.

440
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind you talking about a little bit Flannery

441
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: O'Connor specifically, which I found fascinating. I actually went and

442
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 1: dug out her prayer journal and read that afterwards. Terrence

443
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: Malick obviously Knight of the Hunter, some of these sort

444
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: of dark cultural influences that are out there that Bruce

445
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: manages to pull together and generate this amazing work.

446
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, such an interesting collection of people. Flannery O'Connor,

447
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 6: I feel like there's only one. They only made one

448
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 6: of one. Flannery O'Connor at the Writer Factory. You know,

449
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 6: she traveled in a school of one and so much

450
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 6: tension between her Catholicism and the desperation that you found

451
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 6: in her stories, and so in that way, she was

452
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 6: this kind of perfect model for Springsteen, like can you

453
00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 6: let it go there?

454
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: It's dark?

455
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 6: Can you remove this sliver of redemption that he often

456
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 6: put in there because we often want it? But I

457
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 6: think one of the lessons of Flannery O'Connor is it

458
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 6: can go completely dark, and the hope can be somewhere.

459
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: Outside the work.

460
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 6: The hope can be in the fact that there's a

461
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 6: connection between the writer and the reader. It doesn't always

462
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 6: have to be in the content. And I think that's

463
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 6: a profound lesson. Because I never went away from Nebraska

464
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 6: saying this record's telling me to end it all. I

465
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 6: felt like this record was telling me to listen to

466
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 6: it again. So there was some connection between me and

467
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 6: his voice as a writer, between me and the characters.

468
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 6: So Flannery O'Connor, I feel the same thing. But it's

469
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 6: so you know, book is his first contact was you know,

470
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 6: John Landau's wife gave Bruce a collection of stories and

471
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 6: he just latched onto it. Terrence Malick is as an

472
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 6: influence is equally interesting to me because he's about as

473
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 6: mysterious as a well known film director could be. He

474
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 6: really like disappeared after Days of Heaven, which was the

475
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 6: movie after bad Lands, if I'm if I have it right.

476
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 8: So Springsteen almost intuitively is finding these creators who are

477
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 8: outside of any norms and kind of I wouldn't say

478
00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 8: that they're lost, but they're they're marginal and really you ways,

479
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 8: and He's in a marginal moment in his life and

480
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 8: in his art and just intuitively grabs these So it's

481
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 8: the book.

482
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 6: Really needed to go into those influences, you know. And

483
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,239
Speaker 6: I listened to your show talking about stark Weather and

484
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 6: that's such a centerpiece. You know. I feel like you

485
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 6: did a great job getting into the strangeness of what

486
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 6: Springsteen's connecting with. And one point I really try to

487
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 6: make in the book is that stark Weather as a

488
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 6: serial murder was the.

489
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 8: First televisual serial murder.

490
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 6: You know, television is new, and you know the way

491
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 6: people thought about the moving image and television, they thought

492
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 6: of stars, and you write show stark Weather kind of

493
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 6: packaging himself as a star because that was the reference point.

494
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 6: They didn't think of television as a place where you

495
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 6: got your news so much.

496
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 10: It was still newspapers, right right, right, right, Yeah, there's

497
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 10: this is the thing you do in your book too,

498
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 10: where you kind of you kind of contradict my take

499
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 10: on stark Weather.

500
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: And I think you're right where you know, I'm I

501
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: wasn't there clearly, and I and I and I and

502
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: I just kind of swallowed the sort of historical narrative

503
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: as it is that he was this James Dean figure,

504
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: and he was, but when you really look at him,

505
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: he's not and there and he's you you rightly point

506
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: that out, that he's like James Dean is a fucking

507
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: like just he's he's a super nova. You can't you

508
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: can't fuck with how good looking charismatic that guy is.

509
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: Charlie stark Weather is like a like something they cut

510
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:04,719
Speaker 1: out of scrap metal version of James Dean. But I

511
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: think the more important piece there is that the country

512
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: kind of projects onto him this James Dean thing, and

513
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: he's there to take it and create this thing. And

514
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: and you're right, he's out on the margins. Flannery O'Connor's

515
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: characters are out on the margins. Springsteen's out on the margins,

516
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: and he's pulling them all together.

517
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 2: Yeah.

518
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 6: Well that's why, you know, I went into the Springsteen

519
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 6: interview going Raging Bull had to have mattered for Nebraska.

520
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 6: And it was a really productive moment of me being

521
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 6: completely wrong, but Springsteen and telling me why I was wrong,

522
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 6: helping me to understand that those other influences on the

523
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 6: Nebraska project, like he didn't want the things.

524
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 7: That were so that hit so directly, and Raging Bull did.

525
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 6: It was this It was recognized as a triumph, whereas

526
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 6: bad Lands kind of you know, kind of came in

527
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 6: the Arn't house and you know, went away and so

528
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 6: did the director and that was the stuff that mattered.

529
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: Just Springsteen right then.

530
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: Amazing are We're going to take a quick break, come back, Warren,

531
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: if you're cool with it, we'll come back. And I

532
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: got a couple questions from some listeners that I can

533
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: ask you down with that.

534
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 4: All right, all.

535
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: Right, So Warren, I do this thing where I have

536
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: people call in six one seven nine.

537
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: There were six six sixty three eight.

538
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 1: They send me voicemails, they text me all in relation

539
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: to the episodes that were doing the subject matter. I

540
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: was teasing out your book in advance of this interview

541
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 1: on some of these bonus episodes. Going to couple of texts,

542
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: gonna hit you with them, if you're cool with that

543
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: down Yeah, all right cool. First one from Disco GB

544
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: in the three two three area code says, quote, you

545
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: write about Bruce's influence on the Del Fuego's in your book.

546
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: What are what are some of We're sorry this is

547
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: their writing. What are some of yours and your bandmate's

548
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: favorite Bruce songs from back in the day?

549
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 6: Uh, you know, I'm I'm like many people that I love,

550
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 6: you know, racing in the streets. I have never tired

551
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 6: of that. I love I love backstreets. I love Rosalita. Uh.

552
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 6: I loved you know, tunnel of love when it came

553
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 6: uh and again some days it's it's growing up.

554
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: I Uh.

555
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 6: When I got Western Stars, I was really excited because

556
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 6: I felt this is the tunnel of love, of this moment.

557
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 6: The Seeger sessions felt like a guy who was rediscovering

558
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 6: being in a band. So it depends what I'm looking for.

559
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 6: But if I were to pick a favorite song today, ah,

560
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 6: you know, I'm going to say it's highway patrolman. Highway

561
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 6: patrolman just just kills me. And you know, part of

562
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 6: it is, you know, when I was in the Del Fuegos,

563
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 6: it was with my brother and highway patrolman. I remember

564
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 6: talking to Dave Alvin about highway patrolman and Dave was

565
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 6: in the Blasters with his brother Phil and as a

566
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 6: brother story, you know, when they're both dancing with Maria,

567
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 6: there's something going on and the exchange between brothers that

568
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 6: is so beyond words, and it's like Springsteen understood this

569
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 6: brother experience better than the brothers. Did you listen to it?

570
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 6: And it's like, man, he's putting his finger on something

571
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 6: that I couldn't even and I just when he you know,

572
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 6: lets his brother go at the end, to me, it's,

573
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 6: you know, a couple of things are happening. It's like

574
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 6: he loves him so much that he's going to let

575
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 6: him go and this is bigger than the law. But

576
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 6: the other thing is he's really like releasing him so

577
00:35:54,200 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 6: he can carry on with his life. And that's so complicated, right,

578
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 6: I mean, either of those two elements are complicated to

579
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 6: have them both happening at the same time, it's like

580
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 6: that is some sophisticated writing.

581
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, the subtext and the nuance is just it's it's heavy.

582
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: There is a reason we keep going back to it,

583
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's over and over.

584
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 6: But then in his note to John Landau when he

585
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 6: first gave him the recordings on that cassette tape, he's like,

586
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 6: I'm not sure if this is any good.

587
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 7: Like that too, Like a lot.

588
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 6: Of times, when really great artists get inside of a

589
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 6: work of art, the trade off is they can't see

590
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 6: it anymore. They can make it that they can't see

591
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 6: it to know you just wrote a monster.

592
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is a monster. I have a question

593
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: about that song HOWI patrolmn uh dancing with Maria while

594
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: the band played at the night at the Johnstown Flood.

595
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: Is that a real That's not a real song, right,

596
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: that's tradition.

597
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 6: Not a real song unless I got it wrong. But

598
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 6: the beauty is like he comes up with his title

599
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 6: and damn it if we don't know that song.

600
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly my point.

601
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just so good, Yeah, totally, Like it's so

602
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,280
Speaker 6: it's so something you wouldn't dance to that it's got

603
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 6: to exist. I mean, right, he just pulls off these

604
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 6: little magic tricks.

605
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right's do another one here, Achy Breaky

606
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: Dave from the seven four to seven text ask Warren

607
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: Petty Springsteen, who's next?

608
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 2: Who's next?

609
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 7: Well, I'll tell you.

610
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 6: I'm on my fifth book. A lot of a lot

611
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 6: of people don't know this, but I'm on my fifth book,

612
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 6: working with Garth Brooks on his series of coffee table books.

613
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 7: That kind of go through his career.

614
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 6: And it's you know, I came in just to help,

615
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 6: and it was Garth who gave me. I wasn't even

616
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 6: expecting to see a credit. And it was the first

617
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 6: one came out, Garth Brooks with Warren Zay's and from

618
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 6: day one it's direct artists to artists contact and he's

619
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 6: I've learned more than I can tell you from him.

620
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 6: You know, about songwriting, about record production, about live performance,

621
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 6: about raising children, about basketball, you know, like it goes

622
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 6: on and on, and so what's the common thread, Tom Petty,

623
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 6: Bruce Springsteen, Garth Brooks. The common thread is the opportunity

624
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 6: to hear them talk about their art. So that's that

625
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 6: for me, Like I'm spoiled, sick. All I know is

626
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 6: whatever's coming next is I need them there because that's

627
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 6: where I just want to keep learning. And I've learned

628
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 6: a lot from from all three.

629
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 8: And you know, I went, I.

630
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 6: Went and really sat sat at Jonathan Richmond's feet, saying, Jonathan,

631
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 6: let me write a book. And you know that everybody knows,

632
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 6: like Jonathan doesn't want anybody writing a book. And I said,

633
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 6: you know, Chuck Prophet sent me you. You trust Chuck.

634
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 6: I said, you know, if I have to get you

635
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 6: to build a pizza oven in my backyard, I'll do it,

636
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 6: you know, to get to the book, because builds pizza

637
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 6: ovens when he's not on the road. I was like,

638
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 6: you know, we'll build a massive pizza oven in my backyard,

639
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 6: like whatever it takes.

640
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 7: But I know your body is just stuffed with.

641
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 6: Stories and the world needs to understand more about you.

642
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,840
Speaker 6: And I think he already knew in his head, like

643
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 6: I'm not building.

644
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 2: This guy a pizza oven. I'm not talking to this guy.

645
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 2: I got pizza pizza ovens to me, all right.

646
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: So Garth, I just showed my son, my nine year

647
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: old coincidentally, because we were watching the Academy of Country

648
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: Music Awards the other night and Garth was hosting, so

649
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: my nine year old was like, who's this guy?

650
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 2: So I showed him the video for Friends in Low Places.

651
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 2: Incredible song.

652
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like, you know, sort of like the

653
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: rock guys don't give Garth Brooks the credit that he deserves.

654
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 2: He is a beast of a performer. That song he

655
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: wrote that song, I'm guessing you no, No, he did an.

656
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: Incredible song and just like you know, instantly impactful for

657
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: anyone of any age. My nine year old was just like,

658
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: I'm in and he's got goody. He was like, I

659
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: want to know more about this guy.

660
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: So I thought that was he's gone.

661
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 6: Garth has a lot that he has written that are

662
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 6: those I'm in. Uh, you know, it's very direct, but.

663
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,439
Speaker 7: It's he's also look his his studio, it was called

664
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 7: Jack's Tracks.

665
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 6: Now it's called Alan Town after his producer Alan Reynolds,

666
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 6: but Jack's Tracks with Cowboy Jack Clement, who came from

667
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 6: Son in Memphis and then you know, went over to Nashville.

668
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 6: Cowboy Jack was one of the great you know, uh,

669
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 6: vigilante characters of country music, and Garth cuts records live there.

670
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,399
Speaker 6: It's you know, it's he makes them like they used

671
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 6: to make them. And I think a lot of people

672
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 6: miss that part too, because he's not He's not a

673
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 6: retro act by any stretch.

674
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: But that's the way.

675
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 6: It's like, bring in those class A players and let's

676
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 6: let's have a level of musicianship that allows me to

677
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 6: cut my vocal live and we can keep all this

678
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 6: stuff and we can feel these humans playing together.

679
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 2: And I've I just I love that still.

680
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm fine with things being on the grid.

681
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 6: There's some music that's on the grid that I love.

682
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 6: But the idea of an artist with a career is

683
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 6: you know, I love the long careers. I love the

684
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 6: human beings in the room. I love mistakes. You know,

685
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 6: Nebraska is just the greatest accident ever released. You know,

686
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 6: it's the only record Springsteen east as an official release

687
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 6: that when he made it, he didn't know he was

688
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,560
Speaker 6: making an official release. And man, it's it's such a gift.

689
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 6: I've I've got a New York Times op ed coming

690
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 6: at the end of this week.

691
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 10: It really is.

692
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 6: I'm getting right up on the pulpit and saying, Bruce

693
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 6: gave us all a gift here.

694
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 5: And let's all go out and make some mistakes. Yeah,

695
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 5: I love that.

696
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 2: I love that. So that's the Times Times op Ed

697
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 2: is coming this week. What else? What else you got

698
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: cooking before we split?

699
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:32,399
Speaker 6: Here?

700
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: You're traveling at all? You're doing any appearances?

701
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 9: You know?

702
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 6: I've done some. I did you know a few with

703
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 6: with musicians.

704
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: Uh.

705
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,320
Speaker 6: I'm in a band called Rogue Olaphant. Paul Muldoon, the poet,

706
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,439
Speaker 6: put a band together really cool. The players from Rogue

707
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 6: Olafant were my backing band. And then I had Laura

708
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 6: Cantrell and Steve Urle and James Maddock each playing Nebraska

709
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 6: songs and I would speak in between them, which to

710
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 6: me is the best way to talk about that record,

711
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 6: just like get talk about the song, set it up,

712
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 6: and then get close to the material. And at one

713
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 6: of the shows, my sister makes really beautiful marionettes, but

714
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 6: she she made me a marionette of stark Weather, you know,

715
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 6: wearing his penitentiary number. And so he's he could speak

716
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 6: to me from beyond the grave, and I was able

717
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 6: to ask him about how he felt about Springsteen's vision

718
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 6: of this, and he, you know, he felt like Springsteen

719
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 6: and turning it into a first person story and speaking

720
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 6: as stark Weather, you know, stark Weather says.

721
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 8: To me, like.

722
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 6: In that case, I felt a little bit more scene.

723
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing. All right, Warren, thank you so much, man,

724
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: Thank you.

725
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 6: I appreciate thank you. It's a real treat. I love

726
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 6: the podcast and it's it's cool to be on it.

727
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

728
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 11: Man.

729
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: That means a lot. That means a lot. I'm gonna go.

730
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go climb up that hill, find that radio,

731
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: turn on FNX and keep searching for those del Fuegos tunes.

732
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 8: All right, thanks man.

733
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 2: All right, dude, thanks again, good luck to you.

734
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 6: Thank you.

735
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 11: All right.

736
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: That was Warren Zanes. How fucking cool was that guy. Amazing?

737
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 2: Love that dude. Love that book. Get that book.

738
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,720
Speaker 1: It's really, really, really good. Let's do a quick recap.

739
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: Season twelve of Disgraceland has launched with our episode on

740
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen.

741
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: Checked that out.

742
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: If you haven't already Number two in the recap list,

743
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: Warren Zan's book Delivered Me from Nowhere, a must read

744
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: for anyone interested in Springsteen and or Nebraska, go read

745
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: it if you have not already.

746
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: Number three.

747
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber is up next in Disgraceland and over in

748
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: the bad Lands.

749
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 11: Feed.

750
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: We just launched our episode on James Dean, so check

751
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: that out. Number four, apologies to all of you for

752
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 1: not getting to your voicemails this week. I will double

753
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: up on them next week's after Party six one seven

754
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: nine zero six six six three eight to leave me

755
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: a voicemail or send me a text or at Disgraceland

756
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,919
Speaker 1: pod on the Socials over in the Badlands Wrap Party

757
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: bonus episode this week. Lots of your voicemails being answered there,

758
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: so make sure you check that out this week as always.

759
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: Number five, Bruce Springste's Nebraska. I already told you know this,

760
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: it's out. Go listen to it, all right. My moment

761
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 1: of bliss in honor of mister Warren Zan's and mister

762
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen me reading you the phone book from Nebraska

763
00:46:53,880 --> 00:47:00,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty nine. Richmond jay Cement Finisher H one

764
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: eight one oh VERA M. Student R one zero three three,

765
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: w L Guard neb State Penitentiary, Walter T H four

766
00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: three three four, Saint Paul Ave Walter T and Son

767
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: Bakers one five two nine, Wanda V R one zero

768
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: three three n Witten US Army R one zero three

769
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: three G. S William Helen, Chief Clerk, C B and

770
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: q H one four three one South seventeenth, Mary P.

771
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: And William H. Fern Rhodes two two nine North eleventh,

772
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: Wilford Minimers, Miller and Payne.

773
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: One six two two North thirty first Cook see also

774
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: Cook and Cook.

775
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 2: Marie M. Missus Mcgrawmaco R. One four three five.

776
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: M Cookson edis Nen Cafe R five.

777
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: I want to quit talking and start mixing