1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,558 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:14,198 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe 3 00:00:14,318 --> 00:00:18,798 Speaker 1: podcast with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden, also co 4 00:00:18,998 --> 00:00:22,838 Speaker 1: authors of the namesake book. The Book of Joe is 5 00:00:22,878 --> 00:00:26,758 Speaker 1: out now wherever you buy your books. Joe went to 6 00:00:26,918 --> 00:00:30,878 Speaker 1: World Series game last night and Fireworks Night broke out 7 00:00:31,398 --> 00:00:34,718 Speaker 1: five home runs by the Philadelphia Phillies. They grabbed control 8 00:00:34,758 --> 00:00:38,998 Speaker 1: of the series with a seven nothing win on Game three. 9 00:00:39,798 --> 00:00:42,278 Speaker 1: Give me your thoughts about what first comes to mind 10 00:00:42,318 --> 00:00:45,438 Speaker 1: watching World Series Game three. Well, yeah, it was unlikely. 11 00:00:45,718 --> 00:00:49,158 Speaker 1: McCuller just doesn't do that. And but he wasn't sharp. 12 00:00:49,238 --> 00:00:50,998 Speaker 1: He hasn't been sharp as last two outings. I don't 13 00:00:50,998 --> 00:00:53,758 Speaker 1: even know if the champagne bottle to the elbows lingering 14 00:00:53,838 --> 00:00:56,318 Speaker 1: right now. It kind of looks like it is. Uh, 15 00:00:56,878 --> 00:01:00,878 Speaker 1: pitches just weren't finishing. Breaking ball was at times sharp, 16 00:01:00,918 --> 00:01:03,918 Speaker 1: but very inconsistent. I love his change it. I thought 17 00:01:03,918 --> 00:01:05,398 Speaker 1: you should have thrown his change up a little bit 18 00:01:05,398 --> 00:01:07,158 Speaker 1: more off and get underneath some of those guys on 19 00:01:07,198 --> 00:01:10,478 Speaker 1: the right handed side and possibly diving away from the lefties. 20 00:01:10,478 --> 00:01:12,318 Speaker 1: But I have no idea what their game planning was. 21 00:01:12,358 --> 00:01:15,678 Speaker 1: But I'm surprised. I surprised that, and then um, you know, 22 00:01:15,718 --> 00:01:19,398 Speaker 1: we left you a note this morning, the when when 23 00:01:19,438 --> 00:01:22,478 Speaker 1: you're waste good pitching in a bad game. I again, 24 00:01:22,558 --> 00:01:24,678 Speaker 1: it's like he stayed in there so long. It was 25 00:01:24,718 --> 00:01:28,718 Speaker 1: hard to have the Astros dig down deeply enough and 26 00:01:28,718 --> 00:01:31,038 Speaker 1: and really be able to come back with the pitch 27 00:01:31,078 --> 00:01:33,478 Speaker 1: of the Phillies momentum was so great, and their their 28 00:01:33,558 --> 00:01:37,758 Speaker 1: bullpen pitch really well obviously, but I'm a bigger Keaty fan, 29 00:01:37,918 --> 00:01:40,078 Speaker 1: and to have him pitched three innings in the game 30 00:01:40,158 --> 00:01:42,798 Speaker 1: like that when it's pretty much out of hand, that 31 00:01:42,838 --> 00:01:44,678 Speaker 1: would bother me. I mean, just this is on my 32 00:01:44,758 --> 00:01:47,758 Speaker 1: personal note, I hate it using good pitching in a 33 00:01:47,798 --> 00:01:49,758 Speaker 1: bad game, like during a regular season. That's the way 34 00:01:49,758 --> 00:01:52,678 Speaker 1: I describe it and standing but I know, like almost 35 00:01:52,678 --> 00:01:55,318 Speaker 1: every one of their guys is good, so it's it's different. 36 00:01:56,078 --> 00:01:57,678 Speaker 1: But a guy like her Katy, to me, could be 37 00:01:57,678 --> 00:02:01,798 Speaker 1: really a difference maker in a situation or series like this, 38 00:02:01,918 --> 00:02:05,398 Speaker 1: So more than anything, that's that was my takeaway. Um, 39 00:02:05,438 --> 00:02:07,878 Speaker 1: I just have that thought during the regular season and 40 00:02:07,918 --> 00:02:11,198 Speaker 1: in the playoffs too, but primarily regular season. I've always 41 00:02:11,238 --> 00:02:14,478 Speaker 1: hated to use uh, good pitching in a bad game, 42 00:02:14,518 --> 00:02:16,518 Speaker 1: and that's what happened last night. Yeah, you're right though 43 00:02:16,518 --> 00:02:19,758 Speaker 1: about how deep that Houston staff is. I mean, Stannic 44 00:02:19,838 --> 00:02:22,718 Speaker 1: and Katie haven't pitched much at all because it's just 45 00:02:22,798 --> 00:02:26,398 Speaker 1: so many good options for Dusty Baker. I like what 46 00:02:26,438 --> 00:02:29,798 Speaker 1: you said about McCullers. You know, the champagne bottle injury 47 00:02:29,918 --> 00:02:31,958 Speaker 1: was the elbow. He showed me that elbow was still 48 00:02:32,118 --> 00:02:34,918 Speaker 1: kind of black and blue and tender there. Now. I 49 00:02:34,918 --> 00:02:36,798 Speaker 1: think it also has to do with the rust he 50 00:02:36,958 --> 00:02:39,718 Speaker 1: got out there for only the fourth time in forty 51 00:02:39,838 --> 00:02:44,598 Speaker 1: one days. He's pitched on seven days arrest, eight days arrest, 52 00:02:44,678 --> 00:02:48,318 Speaker 1: eleven days arrest, and twelve days arrest the last four 53 00:02:48,318 --> 00:02:50,838 Speaker 1: times out. You're talking about a touch and field guy. 54 00:02:51,398 --> 00:02:53,918 Speaker 1: So I I looked at that going in and I said, 55 00:02:54,358 --> 00:02:56,518 Speaker 1: this is interesting. As you know, it's probably a little 56 00:02:56,518 --> 00:02:58,238 Speaker 1: bit tougher for a touch and field guy than for 57 00:02:58,238 --> 00:03:02,878 Speaker 1: a power guy. But everybody started talking during the game 58 00:03:02,998 --> 00:03:05,118 Speaker 1: about was he tipped his pitches? And we all love 59 00:03:05,198 --> 00:03:09,918 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. You have to know this, folks, about the 60 00:03:09,958 --> 00:03:13,078 Speaker 1: game that mc color has pitched. Last night, eighty two 61 00:03:13,598 --> 00:03:17,478 Speaker 1: of his pitches were between eighty two and eighty nine. 62 00:03:17,998 --> 00:03:21,478 Speaker 1: Eighty two of his pitches were in a very narrow 63 00:03:21,638 --> 00:03:26,438 Speaker 1: window of velocity. The Philadelphia Phillies went to the home 64 00:03:26,518 --> 00:03:30,918 Speaker 1: plate knowing they were sitting soft, and that's exactly what 65 00:03:30,958 --> 00:03:36,718 Speaker 1: they got. Mccolors through one fastball to a left handed pitcher, 66 00:03:37,278 --> 00:03:40,398 Speaker 1: left handed hitter. He had thrown one all season to 67 00:03:40,518 --> 00:03:43,878 Speaker 1: a left handed hitter. He had thrown twenty nine fastballs 68 00:03:43,918 --> 00:03:47,718 Speaker 1: to a left handed hitter all year. So the lefties 69 00:03:47,758 --> 00:03:51,438 Speaker 1: went to the plate looking soft. They got soft. You 70 00:03:51,558 --> 00:03:54,078 Speaker 1: combine that with a guy who has not pitched very 71 00:03:54,118 --> 00:03:57,918 Speaker 1: much for the last five weeks, and his breaking stuff 72 00:03:58,158 --> 00:04:01,198 Speaker 1: was landing right over the heart of the plate without 73 00:04:01,278 --> 00:04:03,918 Speaker 1: the same kind of bite to it. So, for instance, 74 00:04:04,598 --> 00:04:08,398 Speaker 1: Kyle Schwarber saw eleven pitches, every one of them between 75 00:04:08,558 --> 00:04:14,718 Speaker 1: eighty two and walk home run, You've got random marsh 76 00:04:14,918 --> 00:04:18,078 Speaker 1: These are both Joe Madden guys. By the way, six 77 00:04:18,118 --> 00:04:22,758 Speaker 1: pitches right double base hit or a home run in 78 00:04:22,798 --> 00:04:26,438 Speaker 1: a base hit six pitches eighty four to eighty nine. 79 00:04:27,518 --> 00:04:33,078 Speaker 1: You're not beating the Philadelphia Phillies pitching them almost entirely soft, 80 00:04:33,118 --> 00:04:37,958 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, especially in that ballpark where they have seventeen 81 00:04:37,998 --> 00:04:41,358 Speaker 1: home runs, and what is a six and oh postseason, 82 00:04:41,598 --> 00:04:44,118 Speaker 1: just a bad matchup from a Colors. Feel sorry for 83 00:04:44,158 --> 00:04:46,678 Speaker 1: him because of the rest factor, but give credit to 84 00:04:46,718 --> 00:04:49,718 Speaker 1: the Phillies. They knew it was coming only because the 85 00:04:49,878 --> 00:04:53,038 Speaker 1: game planned exactly the right way. Yeah, I didn't realize 86 00:04:53,038 --> 00:04:55,438 Speaker 1: the numbers were that heavy against the festball, which I 87 00:04:55,558 --> 00:04:58,718 Speaker 1: really find curious. Um. I mean he has he has 88 00:04:58,758 --> 00:05:00,878 Speaker 1: plenty of hop when he when he wants that. I've 89 00:05:00,918 --> 00:05:03,038 Speaker 1: seen that, we will, we've both seen that in the past. 90 00:05:03,078 --> 00:05:07,798 Speaker 1: So UM, I don't even know analytically if they deemed 91 00:05:07,798 --> 00:05:11,398 Speaker 1: the fact that his his fastball to Seamer ran into 92 00:05:11,478 --> 00:05:14,838 Speaker 1: the barrel, say of a lefty. Um. I've always big 93 00:05:14,998 --> 00:05:17,358 Speaker 1: on when I console with my pictures, I like when 94 00:05:17,358 --> 00:05:18,718 Speaker 1: they throw the ball to the weak part of the 95 00:05:18,718 --> 00:05:20,478 Speaker 1: bat as opposed to the strong part of the bat. 96 00:05:21,198 --> 00:05:23,678 Speaker 1: And I could see if if the Colors as well 97 00:05:23,798 --> 00:05:26,518 Speaker 1: or right um and sharp, like you suggested, he didn't 98 00:05:26,558 --> 00:05:30,038 Speaker 1: pitch with any regularity, that I could get that breaking 99 00:05:30,078 --> 00:05:31,638 Speaker 1: ball more to the weak part of the bat, not 100 00:05:31,718 --> 00:05:33,118 Speaker 1: to the strong part of the bat. Because I mean, 101 00:05:33,158 --> 00:05:36,478 Speaker 1: even that breaking ball to uh Marshy he got he 102 00:05:36,598 --> 00:05:39,958 Speaker 1: actually got the barrel to that it was elevated a bit, 103 00:05:40,158 --> 00:05:42,398 Speaker 1: but he got the barrel to that obviously, and the 104 00:05:43,238 --> 00:05:45,118 Speaker 1: one that Harper was just it was middle middle. I mean, 105 00:05:45,118 --> 00:05:46,438 Speaker 1: there's nothing he could have done, but I hit it 106 00:05:46,478 --> 00:05:48,918 Speaker 1: that far. And I think Bomb's home run was a 107 00:05:48,998 --> 00:05:51,358 Speaker 1: changeup or something that came running back into him. I 108 00:05:51,398 --> 00:05:54,438 Speaker 1: thought I saw that. Also. Again, I didn't realize it 109 00:05:54,478 --> 00:05:57,918 Speaker 1: was such a heavy breaking ball situation. But even actually 110 00:05:57,918 --> 00:06:00,438 Speaker 1: this morning, how many breaking balls versus fastballs I've hit 111 00:06:00,878 --> 00:06:02,598 Speaker 1: for home runs in the in the playoffs, And I 112 00:06:02,638 --> 00:06:04,758 Speaker 1: was surprised that you gave come back to me and 113 00:06:05,198 --> 00:06:08,158 Speaker 1: told me he was a way fastball's way over breaking balls. 114 00:06:08,158 --> 00:06:10,198 Speaker 1: And again that's another example of where I need to 115 00:06:10,198 --> 00:06:13,838 Speaker 1: see datas sometimes because my personal impressions are probably wrong. 116 00:06:14,718 --> 00:06:18,438 Speaker 1: But yeah, a strange kind of a method. And and 117 00:06:18,438 --> 00:06:21,718 Speaker 1: and finally, um, yeah, he wasn't tipping his pitches. He 118 00:06:21,798 --> 00:06:23,558 Speaker 1: was tipping his whole game plan. I mean, these guys 119 00:06:23,598 --> 00:06:25,598 Speaker 1: knew exactly what he's gonna do before the game began. 120 00:06:26,358 --> 00:06:28,598 Speaker 1: You can't sit soft mentally, and when you do that, 121 00:06:28,598 --> 00:06:31,078 Speaker 1: that little internal clock permits you to stay back longer. 122 00:06:31,878 --> 00:06:33,998 Speaker 1: And if he's making good pitches with it, it still 123 00:06:34,038 --> 00:06:36,278 Speaker 1: could be problematic. But if he's not what he was 124 00:06:36,318 --> 00:06:40,518 Speaker 1: and he was not making good pitches, then advantage phillies. Absolutely. Yeah, 125 00:06:40,558 --> 00:06:43,678 Speaker 1: it's a good point about if he's making pitches, he's 126 00:06:43,678 --> 00:06:46,198 Speaker 1: gonna get out. I mean, he got five punch outs. 127 00:06:46,198 --> 00:06:48,678 Speaker 1: He had nine swings and misses. So when he got 128 00:06:48,718 --> 00:06:50,278 Speaker 1: some tilt on his slider and he got it in 129 00:06:50,318 --> 00:06:53,558 Speaker 1: the right spot, it worked. You know, It's like Randy 130 00:06:53,638 --> 00:06:55,958 Speaker 1: Johnson back in the day people thought he was He 131 00:06:56,038 --> 00:06:58,558 Speaker 1: knew he was tipping pitches and he could throw that 132 00:06:58,638 --> 00:07:01,038 Speaker 1: slider back foot and guys still couldn't hit it. Some 133 00:07:01,158 --> 00:07:03,438 Speaker 1: My color is when he threw his breaking pitches right, 134 00:07:03,598 --> 00:07:05,678 Speaker 1: it was good, which told me they didn't tip it. 135 00:07:06,198 --> 00:07:08,438 Speaker 1: But you know, you made a good call on Bryce 136 00:07:08,478 --> 00:07:11,518 Speaker 1: Harper first pitch. And mccullur has told me after the game, 137 00:07:11,558 --> 00:07:13,798 Speaker 1: he said, I know, with a guy on base, I 138 00:07:13,918 --> 00:07:16,278 Speaker 1: cannot let Bryce Harper beat me. But you know what, 139 00:07:16,878 --> 00:07:19,758 Speaker 1: he struck out Harper on three straight curveballs the last 140 00:07:19,798 --> 00:07:22,158 Speaker 1: time he saw him. Harper goes up to the plate, 141 00:07:22,278 --> 00:07:25,518 Speaker 1: he knows, he literally knows he's not getting a fastball, 142 00:07:25,878 --> 00:07:28,518 Speaker 1: so he sits soft. And when you throw a first 143 00:07:28,558 --> 00:07:33,318 Speaker 1: pitch curveball and you have not established any fastball, a 144 00:07:33,398 --> 00:07:36,158 Speaker 1: guy is going to be on balance. Scharber's first at 145 00:07:36,158 --> 00:07:40,318 Speaker 1: bat of the game, six breaking pitches. He was on 146 00:07:40,438 --> 00:07:43,798 Speaker 1: balance and took every single one of them. And your 147 00:07:43,798 --> 00:07:46,438 Speaker 1: guy Marsh, you know, listen, I like Brandon Marsh. He's 148 00:07:46,478 --> 00:07:49,638 Speaker 1: a good athlete as a hitter. He's got pretty much 149 00:07:49,638 --> 00:07:53,838 Speaker 1: slider bat speed right now, right against right handed fastballs 150 00:07:53,878 --> 00:07:59,158 Speaker 1: this year seven thirteen right handed fastballs. Only three times 151 00:07:59,158 --> 00:08:01,118 Speaker 1: did you have a hit to the pull side on 152 00:08:01,158 --> 00:08:04,558 Speaker 1: a right handed fastball. You have to throw him fastballs. 153 00:08:04,798 --> 00:08:08,478 Speaker 1: Mc colors didn't throw on the fastball. So he's pitching 154 00:08:08,558 --> 00:08:11,198 Speaker 1: to these strains. And again, I fuel a team that's 155 00:08:11,438 --> 00:08:14,078 Speaker 1: red hot right now, like the Phillies. To sit on 156 00:08:14,078 --> 00:08:17,838 Speaker 1: one speed, you're gonna get burned. And that's what happened 157 00:08:17,838 --> 00:08:20,398 Speaker 1: in Game three. It was not about tipping. I would 158 00:08:20,438 --> 00:08:22,798 Speaker 1: bet that Kevin Long had the breaking ball machine set 159 00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:25,638 Speaker 1: up in that tunnel right well, he did. They were 160 00:08:25,678 --> 00:08:27,878 Speaker 1: out there at two thirty on the field actually, and 161 00:08:27,918 --> 00:08:31,238 Speaker 1: it was Schwarber who now is the king of the 162 00:08:31,238 --> 00:08:33,998 Speaker 1: breaking ball machine. He brings the younger guys out there too, 163 00:08:34,038 --> 00:08:37,078 Speaker 1: And as he told me, I love doing it because 164 00:08:37,078 --> 00:08:39,158 Speaker 1: I like being outside and seeing the shape of the 165 00:08:39,198 --> 00:08:41,598 Speaker 1: pitches outside but he said, I also do it because 166 00:08:41,678 --> 00:08:43,518 Speaker 1: the young guys love it and we make a game 167 00:08:43,558 --> 00:08:45,478 Speaker 1: of it and it's fun. Bottom line is we have 168 00:08:45,558 --> 00:08:48,678 Speaker 1: fun playing off the curveball machine. Love that. What other 169 00:08:48,718 --> 00:08:50,958 Speaker 1: thing about these who were talking earlier about they knew 170 00:08:50,918 --> 00:08:53,598 Speaker 1: what's coming in and you still have five strikeouts. Sometimes 171 00:08:53,598 --> 00:08:56,398 Speaker 1: you'll chase more often if you know what's coming, especially 172 00:08:56,478 --> 00:08:58,078 Speaker 1: with the breaking ball. I mean, if you're sitting breaking 173 00:08:58,118 --> 00:09:00,198 Speaker 1: ball and you're you see it well out of the 174 00:09:00,198 --> 00:09:03,518 Speaker 1: hand possibly and goes strike ball, you almost convince yourself 175 00:09:03,558 --> 00:09:07,198 Speaker 1: you're gonna swing at this pitchure it's always um, it's 176 00:09:07,318 --> 00:09:10,358 Speaker 1: it's you should be if you have a strong uh 177 00:09:10,518 --> 00:09:12,798 Speaker 1: feeling that it's going to be a breakball. I understand completely. 178 00:09:13,118 --> 00:09:15,118 Speaker 1: But also the other part of it is sometimes you 179 00:09:15,118 --> 00:09:16,838 Speaker 1: can get in a chase mode because you know it. 180 00:09:17,158 --> 00:09:18,998 Speaker 1: Here it comes, I see it, and all of a sudden, 181 00:09:18,998 --> 00:09:20,958 Speaker 1: you just start your swinging. You can't stop it. And 182 00:09:20,958 --> 00:09:23,958 Speaker 1: that's probably where those five stryouts came from. Yeah, that's 183 00:09:23,958 --> 00:09:26,278 Speaker 1: a good point, by the way, you know, because let's 184 00:09:26,278 --> 00:09:29,238 Speaker 1: go back to the sign stealing scandal with the Astros, right, 185 00:09:29,278 --> 00:09:32,078 Speaker 1: nobody thought it was a cool thing. It was terrible 186 00:09:32,558 --> 00:09:34,998 Speaker 1: but Jose al to day as a hitter who didn't 187 00:09:34,998 --> 00:09:37,838 Speaker 1: want signs because he's one of those hitters, like you said, Joe, 188 00:09:37,838 --> 00:09:40,158 Speaker 1: if he knows what's coming, the tendency is to lean 189 00:09:40,198 --> 00:09:41,878 Speaker 1: into it and even if it's out of the zone, 190 00:09:41,918 --> 00:09:44,798 Speaker 1: to go chase it. And he told me something fascinating 191 00:09:44,878 --> 00:09:49,398 Speaker 1: last night. Altd on defense doesn't use pitch com now. 192 00:09:49,438 --> 00:09:52,598 Speaker 1: The Astros pitchers all use it, so as a middle infielder, 193 00:09:52,638 --> 00:09:55,038 Speaker 1: he doesn't know what pitches are coming. So he told 194 00:09:55,038 --> 00:09:57,078 Speaker 1: me he doesn't use it because he feels like if 195 00:09:57,078 --> 00:09:59,798 Speaker 1: he knows what's coming, he might jump too early to 196 00:09:59,878 --> 00:10:03,318 Speaker 1: his position right for instance, pole uh shade to the 197 00:10:03,358 --> 00:10:05,878 Speaker 1: pull side a breaking ball too often. So I thought 198 00:10:05,918 --> 00:10:08,398 Speaker 1: that was interesting. He wants to play the game as 199 00:10:08,478 --> 00:10:12,278 Speaker 1: naturally as possible. Again, this is no excuse for you 200 00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:14,638 Speaker 1: know what happened. Even if he weren't stealing signs or 201 00:10:14,678 --> 00:10:17,358 Speaker 1: benefiting from it. You knew what was going on. But 202 00:10:17,438 --> 00:10:19,278 Speaker 1: it is fasting. I think there's a couple of things 203 00:10:19,318 --> 00:10:22,158 Speaker 1: that play here. Joe number one mccullars has to go 204 00:10:22,198 --> 00:10:24,958 Speaker 1: back to the drawing board. The phillies are at least 205 00:10:24,998 --> 00:10:27,318 Speaker 1: in his head. When you give up five home runs. 206 00:10:27,358 --> 00:10:30,838 Speaker 1: You have to start thinking am I tipping? And sometimes 207 00:10:30,878 --> 00:10:33,758 Speaker 1: it's like the spit ball, the idea that you're doing it. 208 00:10:34,198 --> 00:10:36,398 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes it can be as effective as actually 209 00:10:36,438 --> 00:10:39,198 Speaker 1: doing it. And then it's the rest factor, you know. 210 00:10:39,238 --> 00:10:41,638 Speaker 1: I was talking to Justin Verlander, who wasn't sharp in 211 00:10:41,718 --> 00:10:44,998 Speaker 1: his start in Game one, and he said, listen, you know, 212 00:10:45,278 --> 00:10:47,758 Speaker 1: bullpens just aren't the same. He said, I get into 213 00:10:47,798 --> 00:10:51,798 Speaker 1: bad habits playing catch and throwing bullpens. You just don't 214 00:10:51,838 --> 00:10:54,558 Speaker 1: have the same competitive edge. I went out there on 215 00:10:54,598 --> 00:10:56,238 Speaker 1: the mountain and I took some of those bad habits 216 00:10:56,278 --> 00:10:59,398 Speaker 1: out there with me from not being on the mound. 217 00:11:00,238 --> 00:11:03,118 Speaker 1: We'll see what he makes an adjustment his next start 218 00:11:03,118 --> 00:11:07,238 Speaker 1: in Game five. But when you talk about rest versus 219 00:11:07,318 --> 00:11:10,638 Speaker 1: rust for pictures, we're seeing it show up with Houston. 220 00:11:10,718 --> 00:11:13,718 Speaker 1: Now it's not about after the day's off that first game. 221 00:11:14,278 --> 00:11:16,598 Speaker 1: It's about some of these starting pitchers now being outside 222 00:11:16,598 --> 00:11:19,518 Speaker 1: of their normal schedule. Well, I think you're hitting on 223 00:11:19,598 --> 00:11:22,278 Speaker 1: it right there. I think it's more problematic to a 224 00:11:22,278 --> 00:11:24,838 Speaker 1: starter than it is to a really pitch your bullpen guy. 225 00:11:24,838 --> 00:11:28,078 Speaker 1: I've I've really for years, like I'll go back to 226 00:11:28,118 --> 00:11:33,038 Speaker 1: Troy Percival and even Russell and Glacias um Chappie. If 227 00:11:33,078 --> 00:11:34,758 Speaker 1: they didn't pitch, you were in a bad run or 228 00:11:34,758 --> 00:11:36,558 Speaker 1: a real good run, but normally a bad run, whether 229 00:11:36,598 --> 00:11:38,158 Speaker 1: you didn't have a chance for a save. They may 230 00:11:38,158 --> 00:11:40,318 Speaker 1: have not pitch for five days or six days, and 231 00:11:40,958 --> 00:11:42,638 Speaker 1: you'll call it down or you ask before the game, 232 00:11:42,678 --> 00:11:44,598 Speaker 1: listen to you guys wanted any tonight, And I'll say no, 233 00:11:44,678 --> 00:11:46,838 Speaker 1: I'm okay, and they'll just go out there and they'll 234 00:11:46,838 --> 00:11:49,158 Speaker 1: throw to the catcher in the bullpen. So I've I've 235 00:11:49,198 --> 00:11:52,318 Speaker 1: normally uh noticed and believed that a relief picture is 236 00:11:52,358 --> 00:11:54,598 Speaker 1: better able to handle that moment than a starter does. 237 00:11:55,438 --> 00:11:58,398 Speaker 1: The starter is right. I mean these guys, Um, I 238 00:11:58,478 --> 00:12:00,958 Speaker 1: don't like extra they don't. They say they don't like 239 00:12:00,998 --> 00:12:02,558 Speaker 1: extra days, but a lot of them pitch well with 240 00:12:02,638 --> 00:12:05,238 Speaker 1: the extra day. No more than that when it starts 241 00:12:05,238 --> 00:12:07,638 Speaker 1: getting into two extra days and beyond that, you I 242 00:12:08,118 --> 00:12:10,998 Speaker 1: was always concerned about that, and um, you know some 243 00:12:11,078 --> 00:12:14,638 Speaker 1: guys that are trying to look into the analytical copponent 244 00:12:14,718 --> 00:12:16,678 Speaker 1: this like that because they like the idea of rest. 245 00:12:16,758 --> 00:12:19,558 Speaker 1: But then here it comes the rest factors. You're you're 246 00:12:19,918 --> 00:12:22,798 Speaker 1: talking about two So I think it's more problematic for 247 00:12:22,878 --> 00:12:26,038 Speaker 1: a starting pitcher to have more rest than they're they're 248 00:12:26,078 --> 00:12:29,118 Speaker 1: normally accustomed to. They're likely maybe, like I said, an 249 00:12:29,118 --> 00:12:30,998 Speaker 1: extra day now and then is it's not a bad thing, 250 00:12:31,038 --> 00:12:33,598 Speaker 1: But two, three, four could be very difficult. But bullpend 251 00:12:33,638 --> 00:12:36,718 Speaker 1: dudes um like I said, the better guys, even if 252 00:12:36,718 --> 00:12:38,598 Speaker 1: they had pitched for a while, you ask if they 253 00:12:38,598 --> 00:12:41,278 Speaker 1: want any any and they'll say no, Hey, we're gonna 254 00:12:41,278 --> 00:12:43,638 Speaker 1: take a quick break. But when we get back. I 255 00:12:43,678 --> 00:12:47,158 Speaker 1: want to hear Joe Madden's best pitch tipping story and 256 00:12:47,198 --> 00:12:50,198 Speaker 1: will also dive into what's gonna happen in game four 257 00:12:50,438 --> 00:12:59,958 Speaker 1: the World Series. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. 258 00:12:59,998 --> 00:13:02,398 Speaker 1: Remember the Book of Joe podcast. If you like it, 259 00:13:02,478 --> 00:13:05,438 Speaker 1: you're gonna love the book. It's elf our namesake book, 260 00:13:05,518 --> 00:13:08,598 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe with Tom Verducci and Joe Madden. 261 00:13:08,638 --> 00:13:13,198 Speaker 1: It's out now wherever you buy your books. All right, 262 00:13:13,278 --> 00:13:16,438 Speaker 1: Joe talked about pitch tipping. Probably not in play with 263 00:13:16,758 --> 00:13:19,758 Speaker 1: Lance mccullog's junior in game three, but you've been around 264 00:13:19,758 --> 00:13:22,438 Speaker 1: the game long enough, something stand out in your mind 265 00:13:22,598 --> 00:13:25,318 Speaker 1: about one of your guys, or maybe somebody else who 266 00:13:25,398 --> 00:13:27,238 Speaker 1: was tipping his pitches. Well, one of the one of 267 00:13:27,278 --> 00:13:29,158 Speaker 1: the I mean, I guess it's a geography joke. He 268 00:13:29,198 --> 00:13:32,198 Speaker 1: had to be there. That's out of the office, Michael Stott. 269 00:13:32,958 --> 00:13:37,238 Speaker 1: But Ty Wigginton. We're playing the Red Sox and we're 270 00:13:37,278 --> 00:13:40,798 Speaker 1: having our way with Wakefield, which never happens. I mean 271 00:13:40,878 --> 00:13:43,358 Speaker 1: Tim Wakefield like at that time. I don't think I 272 00:13:43,358 --> 00:13:46,638 Speaker 1: ever saw a pitch badly. But anyway, anyway, we're we're 273 00:13:46,678 --> 00:13:48,678 Speaker 1: scoring a couple of runs and here it comes. Looking 274 00:13:48,718 --> 00:13:50,558 Speaker 1: around the bases. He's running into the dug and he 275 00:13:50,598 --> 00:13:55,278 Speaker 1: starts screaming, he's tipping his pitches. He only threw a knuckleball, right. 276 00:13:55,438 --> 00:13:57,758 Speaker 1: I mean that again, I guess you had to be there, 277 00:13:57,758 --> 00:14:01,958 Speaker 1: geograph and Joe, uh yeah, that that's that's primarily. But 278 00:14:01,958 --> 00:14:05,118 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what happens a lot. Your defenders will 279 00:14:05,158 --> 00:14:08,038 Speaker 1: come back in and they'll say or see something like 280 00:14:08,478 --> 00:14:10,518 Speaker 1: Mike Trousd is really good at that, Jimmy Edmonds was 281 00:14:10,558 --> 00:14:13,198 Speaker 1: really good at that. They'll come in from the outfielder 282 00:14:13,478 --> 00:14:16,438 Speaker 1: or somebody not necessarily catch her all the time, but 283 00:14:16,478 --> 00:14:18,358 Speaker 1: a position player that's really good at picking up on 284 00:14:18,398 --> 00:14:21,398 Speaker 1: things will come in and they'll immediately we'll go to 285 00:14:21,478 --> 00:14:24,078 Speaker 1: the to the picture of the pitching coach and say, actually, 286 00:14:24,198 --> 00:14:26,158 Speaker 1: you prefer going to the pitching coach because we go 287 00:14:26,158 --> 00:14:27,998 Speaker 1: to the picture, he'll freak out. But you go to 288 00:14:28,038 --> 00:14:29,718 Speaker 1: the pitching coach and you tell him what you are 289 00:14:29,758 --> 00:14:32,118 Speaker 1: seeing and then let him have it, bring it to 290 00:14:32,198 --> 00:14:34,398 Speaker 1: the to the player himself. So I've I've seen that 291 00:14:34,438 --> 00:14:38,078 Speaker 1: a lot. I've always surprised at how good these guys are. 292 00:14:38,118 --> 00:14:41,078 Speaker 1: There's a certain guys. It's not everybody. Eddie Perez and 293 00:14:41,078 --> 00:14:44,798 Speaker 1: the dugout was outstanding and picking up stuff like that. Uh. 294 00:14:44,878 --> 00:14:47,958 Speaker 1: And I was always Ron Rennicky as a coach, Alfredo 295 00:14:48,038 --> 00:14:50,198 Speaker 1: Griffin as a coach. These guys were just good. They'll 296 00:14:50,238 --> 00:14:53,438 Speaker 1: they'll watch a grip, uh. Runners a second base could 297 00:14:53,438 --> 00:14:56,918 Speaker 1: see certain things. You could watch elbows move. Um. There's 298 00:14:56,958 --> 00:14:59,238 Speaker 1: different things that these guys pick up on. Um. And 299 00:14:59,278 --> 00:15:02,158 Speaker 1: even for me, I used to as a catching instructor, 300 00:15:02,358 --> 00:15:04,438 Speaker 1: there's a lot of times if you really pay attention 301 00:15:04,438 --> 00:15:07,438 Speaker 1: to a catcher, he might give a tip off a 302 00:15:07,518 --> 00:15:10,038 Speaker 1: pitch just by his movement. In other words, if it's 303 00:15:10,038 --> 00:15:13,838 Speaker 1: a right handed pitcher versus the right handed hitter. If 304 00:15:14,038 --> 00:15:17,438 Speaker 1: if a catcher moves inside normally it's gonna be hard, 305 00:15:17,518 --> 00:15:20,438 Speaker 1: or a fastball unless there's one particular picture is able 306 00:15:20,478 --> 00:15:22,878 Speaker 1: to throw his change up underneath the righty as an example. 307 00:15:23,638 --> 00:15:25,678 Speaker 1: So you always had your catchers try to move with 308 00:15:25,758 --> 00:15:28,998 Speaker 1: the same foot. First, move late, uh, set up club 309 00:15:29,038 --> 00:15:32,118 Speaker 1: more closely to where uh, whenever where we want the 310 00:15:32,118 --> 00:15:35,158 Speaker 1: pitch to be located. Set up more closely to that spot. 311 00:15:35,358 --> 00:15:37,958 Speaker 1: Your movements are smaller or less discernible from the side. 312 00:15:38,478 --> 00:15:40,318 Speaker 1: All these different things I've been involved in, all these 313 00:15:40,318 --> 00:15:43,158 Speaker 1: different moments where we're pitches have been picked up, but 314 00:15:43,638 --> 00:15:46,838 Speaker 1: I could still see um Ty Wickinton's face. So absolutely 315 00:15:46,838 --> 00:15:49,718 Speaker 1: love running into the dug out yelling that Tim Wakefield 316 00:15:49,758 --> 00:15:52,278 Speaker 1: is tipping his pitches. That's always been my favorite. I 317 00:15:52,398 --> 00:15:55,798 Speaker 1: love that. Sorry, a couple from me going back to 318 00:15:55,958 --> 00:15:58,318 Speaker 1: Dwight Gooden and It's heyday back in the eighty five 319 00:15:58,358 --> 00:16:01,598 Speaker 1: I think it was. It was Larry Boa who was 320 00:16:01,638 --> 00:16:04,798 Speaker 1: traded over to the Mets from the Cubs, and Gooden 321 00:16:04,918 --> 00:16:09,038 Speaker 1: absolutely owned the Cubs. I mean it was like literally 322 00:16:09,198 --> 00:16:13,118 Speaker 1: against a major league pitcher. Anyway, Boa gets to the 323 00:16:13,158 --> 00:16:16,158 Speaker 1: Mets and he says, we had all of Gooden's pitches. 324 00:16:16,638 --> 00:16:19,918 Speaker 1: He was actually taking his finger off the glove when 325 00:16:19,918 --> 00:16:22,078 Speaker 1: he was throwing his breaking ball and on it for 326 00:16:22,118 --> 00:16:24,398 Speaker 1: a fastball. This is before they had the sleeves there 327 00:16:24,398 --> 00:16:27,398 Speaker 1: for that index finger outside the glove. So it tells 328 00:16:27,398 --> 00:16:29,358 Speaker 1: you how good Dwight Gooden was. They had every one 329 00:16:29,358 --> 00:16:31,718 Speaker 1: of his pitches. He was only a two pitch guy, 330 00:16:31,798 --> 00:16:34,638 Speaker 1: and they still couldn't hit Dwight Gooden and the other ones. 331 00:16:34,678 --> 00:16:38,478 Speaker 1: World Series Game six, two thousand one, Andy pettit out 332 00:16:38,558 --> 00:16:41,798 Speaker 1: in Arizona against the Diamondbacks. They had every one of 333 00:16:41,838 --> 00:16:43,758 Speaker 1: his pitches from the stretch and that was like an 334 00:16:43,798 --> 00:16:46,038 Speaker 1: eleven of three game. They blew the game open. It 335 00:16:46,078 --> 00:16:48,278 Speaker 1: was I think Mark Grace he was great at that. 336 00:16:48,318 --> 00:16:50,118 Speaker 1: You talked about some of these veterans on the bench. 337 00:16:50,718 --> 00:16:52,518 Speaker 1: He was bringing his hands to the set position in 338 00:16:52,558 --> 00:16:54,958 Speaker 1: a different way. He brought his hands away from him 339 00:16:55,078 --> 00:16:58,078 Speaker 1: for a breaking pitch, close to the body for a fastball. 340 00:16:58,278 --> 00:17:00,078 Speaker 1: Every pitch he threw with the run or a base, 341 00:17:00,238 --> 00:17:03,078 Speaker 1: they knew it was coming. So it does happen in 342 00:17:03,118 --> 00:17:05,718 Speaker 1: the game. I think it happens, probably less than people 343 00:17:05,958 --> 00:17:08,438 Speaker 1: think because it makes for such a good story. If 344 00:17:08,438 --> 00:17:11,558 Speaker 1: guy gets hit, he must be tipping his pitches. But 345 00:17:12,038 --> 00:17:16,118 Speaker 1: it does happen. Well. That paranoid really runs through the dugout. 346 00:17:16,318 --> 00:17:19,478 Speaker 1: It happens often when you're when you're seeing your guy primarily, 347 00:17:19,478 --> 00:17:21,358 Speaker 1: like if if he's throwing a good break a ball 348 00:17:21,358 --> 00:17:23,918 Speaker 1: from the side as you're watching the game and the 349 00:17:23,998 --> 00:17:27,038 Speaker 1: hitters are just taking that breaking pitch. It's a strike 350 00:17:27,118 --> 00:17:30,718 Speaker 1: ball and and it's sharp, and these guys are spitting 351 00:17:30,718 --> 00:17:33,878 Speaker 1: on it, you get suspicious at times. I do, not 352 00:17:33,878 --> 00:17:36,198 Speaker 1: not from the perspective that they're cheating, but that my 353 00:17:36,238 --> 00:17:39,918 Speaker 1: picture might be tipping um and and that will really 354 00:17:39,958 --> 00:17:42,278 Speaker 1: circulate throughout the dugout. Like I said, I like when 355 00:17:42,318 --> 00:17:45,318 Speaker 1: guys come and check in from their positions because they 356 00:17:45,358 --> 00:17:48,798 Speaker 1: can see different things that you can't necessarily see from 357 00:17:48,838 --> 00:17:51,758 Speaker 1: your your perch and the dugouts. So yeah, it's it's 358 00:17:51,798 --> 00:17:54,158 Speaker 1: all part of the game, and that's the part of 359 00:17:54,198 --> 00:17:56,518 Speaker 1: the game that I love. I mean, if you are 360 00:17:56,598 --> 00:17:59,278 Speaker 1: bright enough and you've played long enough that you're able 361 00:17:59,358 --> 00:18:01,318 Speaker 1: to discern these kind of a things. I used to 362 00:18:01,318 --> 00:18:05,318 Speaker 1: sit with West West, from former Major league player manager 363 00:18:05,878 --> 00:18:08,878 Speaker 1: at Arizona State when I began scouting. I sit next 364 00:18:08,918 --> 00:18:11,638 Speaker 1: to West and the kindle Carter be pitching in one 365 00:18:11,678 --> 00:18:13,958 Speaker 1: of the stalwarts for me at that time, and he 366 00:18:13,998 --> 00:18:18,078 Speaker 1: would call every pitch from like halfway up the bleachers there. 367 00:18:18,118 --> 00:18:19,958 Speaker 1: And I guess apparently he called a lot of pitches 368 00:18:19,998 --> 00:18:22,638 Speaker 1: forms the McCovey when he's the first base coach with 369 00:18:22,718 --> 00:18:27,638 Speaker 1: the Giants. So some guys just see things that others cannot. Yeah, interesting, 370 00:18:27,718 --> 00:18:29,998 Speaker 1: and I think that's why. Also, when you think about 371 00:18:30,318 --> 00:18:34,278 Speaker 1: that skill of picking up tips or tells, it's being 372 00:18:34,318 --> 00:18:36,878 Speaker 1: done a lot now in back rooms around the game. 373 00:18:37,558 --> 00:18:39,878 Speaker 1: If you notice mccaller is last night when he came 374 00:18:39,918 --> 00:18:41,878 Speaker 1: to the set position, He's did this a while ago. 375 00:18:41,998 --> 00:18:45,358 Speaker 1: He's changed the way he regrips the ball. He has 376 00:18:45,438 --> 00:18:48,038 Speaker 1: the glove and hand in the glove and it's right 377 00:18:48,078 --> 00:18:51,278 Speaker 1: on his hip. And Corbin Burns does that you, Darvis 378 00:18:51,358 --> 00:18:53,918 Speaker 1: has done this a lot of pictures now, Joe Musgrove 379 00:18:54,038 --> 00:18:56,358 Speaker 1: have gone to this. Why do they do that because 380 00:18:56,358 --> 00:19:01,278 Speaker 1: every ballpark now has cameras trained specifically on the pitcher's 381 00:19:01,398 --> 00:19:06,118 Speaker 1: hands and other parts to find out if he's tipping 382 00:19:06,118 --> 00:19:07,998 Speaker 1: his pitches, if he's giving something, the way and the 383 00:19:08,038 --> 00:19:10,718 Speaker 1: way he regrips, the way he just holds the ball 384 00:19:11,038 --> 00:19:13,758 Speaker 1: on a certain type of pitch. They have back room 385 00:19:13,798 --> 00:19:16,718 Speaker 1: analysts looking at all these videos. Cameras dedicated on the 386 00:19:16,718 --> 00:19:19,718 Speaker 1: picture himself. It's amazing how much they can find out. 387 00:19:19,758 --> 00:19:21,638 Speaker 1: And I'm talking this is being done on minor league 388 00:19:21,638 --> 00:19:24,598 Speaker 1: pictures as well. You know. Buck Showalter was telling me 389 00:19:24,638 --> 00:19:26,438 Speaker 1: that had a minor league picture come up make his 390 00:19:26,478 --> 00:19:28,838 Speaker 1: major league debut, and a team was all over the 391 00:19:28,878 --> 00:19:31,358 Speaker 1: guy and he was convinced they had it from video. 392 00:19:31,598 --> 00:19:34,478 Speaker 1: So that old school skill of see it with your eyes, 393 00:19:34,478 --> 00:19:36,158 Speaker 1: a lot of it now is being done in back 394 00:19:36,238 --> 00:19:39,718 Speaker 1: rooms with video and pictures. Just have to be super careful. 395 00:19:39,758 --> 00:19:41,998 Speaker 1: But again, I'll go back to the Colors when put 396 00:19:41,998 --> 00:19:45,118 Speaker 1: a bow on the Colors with this Joe, that sequence 397 00:19:45,158 --> 00:19:48,038 Speaker 1: you talked about where maybe the game got away went 398 00:19:48,078 --> 00:19:52,478 Speaker 1: from four nothing to seven nothing, Mars single, Schwerber home run, 399 00:19:52,798 --> 00:19:55,798 Speaker 1: Hoskins home run. I'm gonna give you the pitch sequence 400 00:19:56,478 --> 00:19:59,438 Speaker 1: from Lance mc colors Junior, at least the velocities eighty 401 00:19:59,558 --> 00:20:03,678 Speaker 1: nine eighty six eight six seven eight five eighty four 402 00:20:03,998 --> 00:20:09,958 Speaker 1: eight four eight three eight six seven. I think that 403 00:20:10,078 --> 00:20:13,518 Speaker 1: says it all. Yeah, Warrant spun hitting his timing. Pitching 404 00:20:13,638 --> 00:20:15,838 Speaker 1: is the upsetting of timing. And if you can get 405 00:20:15,878 --> 00:20:18,918 Speaker 1: into that kind of a groove regarding watching the pictures 406 00:20:18,958 --> 00:20:22,718 Speaker 1: released point just timing it all out absolutely advantage goes 407 00:20:22,878 --> 00:20:25,718 Speaker 1: to that that particular hitter. Another point, as you were 408 00:20:25,718 --> 00:20:29,918 Speaker 1: talking about the previous concept there with the the different 409 00:20:30,158 --> 00:20:34,038 Speaker 1: grips or how the picture starts whatever. Ryan Dempster, he 410 00:20:34,238 --> 00:20:37,598 Speaker 1: was really good at remember all the different gesticulations prior 411 00:20:37,638 --> 00:20:40,838 Speaker 1: to the pitch. Looked like he was shaking a martini exactly, 412 00:20:40,958 --> 00:20:43,718 Speaker 1: very good, very good shaking. That stirred. But I mean 413 00:20:43,838 --> 00:20:46,438 Speaker 1: I I kind of I would do something like that. 414 00:20:46,558 --> 00:20:48,638 Speaker 1: I think I thought that was actually kind of bright, 415 00:20:49,078 --> 00:20:51,718 Speaker 1: because that's what you're when you get confusing a little 416 00:20:51,758 --> 00:20:53,998 Speaker 1: bit to the hitter, you'll give up. And then if 417 00:20:53,998 --> 00:20:57,038 Speaker 1: you're going to study a video and U and it's 418 00:20:57,438 --> 00:20:59,478 Speaker 1: you might be able to discern something from that. But 419 00:20:59,598 --> 00:21:02,518 Speaker 1: from a hitter's perspective, it's too busy. I can't devote 420 00:21:02,518 --> 00:21:04,878 Speaker 1: all my time into that area. So we thought that 421 00:21:04,998 --> 00:21:08,198 Speaker 1: demps always had the right idea by making it a 422 00:21:08,278 --> 00:21:10,678 Speaker 1: little bit more confusing, as long as it doesn't bother you, 423 00:21:10,838 --> 00:21:12,798 Speaker 1: and for him was actually very simple to do it. 424 00:21:12,838 --> 00:21:15,278 Speaker 1: But I thought that was kind of brilliant. All right, 425 00:21:15,358 --> 00:21:17,598 Speaker 1: let's look forward to Game four. I don't know if 426 00:21:17,638 --> 00:21:21,558 Speaker 1: it's a must win for the Astros. It's pretty darn close. 427 00:21:21,598 --> 00:21:24,598 Speaker 1: If it's not, they have to feel like somebody has 428 00:21:24,638 --> 00:21:27,278 Speaker 1: to slow down this Philadelphia train. As I said, six 429 00:21:27,358 --> 00:21:29,718 Speaker 1: and oh at home in the postseason, there's definitely a 430 00:21:29,838 --> 00:21:32,558 Speaker 1: vibe going on. The lineup right now is just so 431 00:21:32,758 --> 00:21:36,318 Speaker 1: much more deeper than the Houston lineup. But Joe, they've 432 00:21:36,318 --> 00:21:39,718 Speaker 1: got a guy going tonight, Christian Javier, who's got I mean, 433 00:21:39,798 --> 00:21:44,598 Speaker 1: it's the antithesis of Lanso McCullers. Throws six fastballs, it's 434 00:21:44,638 --> 00:21:47,318 Speaker 1: got incredible ride on it. He's one of these pictures. 435 00:21:47,398 --> 00:21:50,318 Speaker 1: He throws hard, but it's not just that low release 436 00:21:50,398 --> 00:21:52,958 Speaker 1: point to the top of the zone with spin and 437 00:21:53,078 --> 00:21:55,558 Speaker 1: ride on it. It's a tough draw for the for 438 00:21:55,678 --> 00:21:58,238 Speaker 1: the Phillies. Listen, Kevin Long will have him ready, we 439 00:21:58,318 --> 00:22:01,198 Speaker 1: all know that. But a very different look tonight with 440 00:22:01,398 --> 00:22:05,318 Speaker 1: Javier going for Houston. Nola back on the mound for 441 00:22:05,358 --> 00:22:07,878 Speaker 1: the Phillies. How do you see this one? Yeah, the 442 00:22:08,238 --> 00:22:10,878 Speaker 1: deception of Javier. I'm a big fan of this young man. 443 00:22:11,198 --> 00:22:14,078 Speaker 1: Every time I saw him, my team could not hit 444 00:22:14,158 --> 00:22:16,838 Speaker 1: this guy. There is there's there's deception, there's right to 445 00:22:16,878 --> 00:22:20,118 Speaker 1: the pitch um. He's a strike thrower, he's assertive, he's aggressive. 446 00:22:20,158 --> 00:22:22,558 Speaker 1: He don't mess around. I've I've always I've always been 447 00:22:22,598 --> 00:22:25,238 Speaker 1: a big fan of his and I really anticipate he'll 448 00:22:25,278 --> 00:22:26,758 Speaker 1: do a lot of the same tonight. To use just 449 00:22:26,958 --> 00:22:29,078 Speaker 1: you know, you talked about certain guys in the Philly lineup. 450 00:22:29,158 --> 00:22:32,278 Speaker 1: I the elevated fastball is problematic. I mean it's hard 451 00:22:32,358 --> 00:22:34,478 Speaker 1: for most guys. There's some really good high ball hitters 452 00:22:34,518 --> 00:22:36,838 Speaker 1: out there. I had Evan Longori for a while and 453 00:22:37,038 --> 00:22:40,518 Speaker 1: and Longo was really good hitting and elevated fastball. Jason Heyward, 454 00:22:40,558 --> 00:22:42,358 Speaker 1: that was his bread butter. If you get a fastball 455 00:22:42,438 --> 00:22:44,398 Speaker 1: up to him, you just go down a list of 456 00:22:44,678 --> 00:22:47,678 Speaker 1: different guys. There are some poolholes can do the high fastball, 457 00:22:48,118 --> 00:22:50,478 Speaker 1: but not everybody can. Like Mike Trout, wanted the ball down, 458 00:22:50,918 --> 00:22:53,358 Speaker 1: so it's gonna play, that will play. He's got other 459 00:22:53,398 --> 00:22:55,278 Speaker 1: pictures to work with that too. But I think you're 460 00:22:55,278 --> 00:22:57,958 Speaker 1: gonna see a different kind of game or pattern just 461 00:22:58,078 --> 00:23:00,838 Speaker 1: based on his stuff compared to what mcculors was trying 462 00:23:00,878 --> 00:23:03,518 Speaker 1: to do last night. Nola. Um, you know, I don't 463 00:23:03,558 --> 00:23:05,358 Speaker 1: know he's He's pitched a lot this year, and I 464 00:23:05,798 --> 00:23:07,598 Speaker 1: know more recently it hasn't been as sharp. I know 465 00:23:07,678 --> 00:23:09,478 Speaker 1: he's gonna be at home. I think this is a 466 00:23:09,558 --> 00:23:13,318 Speaker 1: game where um the fact that uh, Robbie did not 467 00:23:13,398 --> 00:23:15,518 Speaker 1: have to use a lot of his better bullpen last night, 468 00:23:15,558 --> 00:23:17,958 Speaker 1: that you might see it earlier tonight. I don't think 469 00:23:17,958 --> 00:23:20,718 Speaker 1: you're gonna let Nola give up five points without somebody 470 00:23:20,918 --> 00:23:23,638 Speaker 1: in the game, or like last night mcculler's five whatever 471 00:23:23,718 --> 00:23:26,358 Speaker 1: it was runs, and or even more than that, right 472 00:23:26,478 --> 00:23:28,358 Speaker 1: that that nobody's in the game before that, I think 473 00:23:29,078 --> 00:23:32,358 Speaker 1: Robbie would be a less um patient. He's gonna have 474 00:23:32,438 --> 00:23:34,238 Speaker 1: to go get him. I think I'd be showing signs 475 00:23:34,278 --> 00:23:36,638 Speaker 1: of what you've seen the last two times out. And 476 00:23:36,718 --> 00:23:38,518 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I think Hobby is gonna pitch well. 477 00:23:38,638 --> 00:23:41,478 Speaker 1: I probably because I've never seen a pitch poorly. But 478 00:23:41,678 --> 00:23:45,678 Speaker 1: I like, like you talked about the low arms slot 479 00:23:45,798 --> 00:23:48,518 Speaker 1: release and the elevation and a lot of deception at 480 00:23:48,518 --> 00:23:50,638 Speaker 1: the plate. Yeah, I agree with all that. I think 481 00:23:50,678 --> 00:23:53,238 Speaker 1: it's a tough draw for Philly. I think probably the 482 00:23:53,398 --> 00:23:56,518 Speaker 1: best matchup might be Schwarber against that high fast boy. 483 00:23:56,638 --> 00:23:58,838 Speaker 1: Put him in that same group those guys you mentioned. 484 00:23:58,878 --> 00:24:01,478 Speaker 1: They can get on top of those pitches, uh, Nola. 485 00:24:01,598 --> 00:24:03,678 Speaker 1: The problem has been pretty clear in my book, and 486 00:24:03,718 --> 00:24:07,158 Speaker 1: you saw it in his World Series start. He struggles 487 00:24:07,198 --> 00:24:09,838 Speaker 1: out of the stretch for some reason. He's much better 488 00:24:09,998 --> 00:24:11,678 Speaker 1: out of the wind up. I talked to him about it. 489 00:24:11,718 --> 00:24:13,598 Speaker 1: He said, he's just more comfortable out of the wind up. 490 00:24:13,638 --> 00:24:18,078 Speaker 1: It's a more natural, fluid, longer delivery for him. You know, 491 00:24:18,198 --> 00:24:20,638 Speaker 1: he does have a unique delivery. It takes a while 492 00:24:20,758 --> 00:24:22,998 Speaker 1: to get kind of unwound, and I think out of 493 00:24:23,038 --> 00:24:25,238 Speaker 1: the stretch it's just not the same. The numbers show 494 00:24:25,278 --> 00:24:27,238 Speaker 1: that during the season that was his issue. In his 495 00:24:27,318 --> 00:24:30,518 Speaker 1: first start against Houston, got hurt much more with runners 496 00:24:30,558 --> 00:24:32,278 Speaker 1: on base than he did out of the wind up. 497 00:24:32,398 --> 00:24:34,558 Speaker 1: That's something to look forward to tonight. But you're right 498 00:24:34,598 --> 00:24:37,998 Speaker 1: about Rob Thompson, I mean, perfect scenario, My goodness, you 499 00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:40,798 Speaker 1: talk about things going Philly's way, Joe. That rain out 500 00:24:40,958 --> 00:24:45,838 Speaker 1: allowed him to pitch Suarez in Game three, and Swerez 501 00:24:45,878 --> 00:24:48,278 Speaker 1: pitched the gem, there's no question about it. But the 502 00:24:48,318 --> 00:24:51,678 Speaker 1: blowout also, as you said, allowed Rob to stay away 503 00:24:51,718 --> 00:24:53,798 Speaker 1: from his winning pieces out of the bullpen. So now 504 00:24:54,278 --> 00:24:56,838 Speaker 1: he's in the perfect scenario where he's got two games 505 00:24:56,958 --> 00:25:01,158 Speaker 1: to play here with essentially a fully rested bullpen. When 506 00:25:01,198 --> 00:25:04,718 Speaker 1: it comes to Alvarado and Dominguez, and he's got Nola, 507 00:25:04,758 --> 00:25:07,038 Speaker 1: who again has not been on point the last couple 508 00:25:07,078 --> 00:25:09,838 Speaker 1: of times out against San Diego and now here against Houston. 509 00:25:10,358 --> 00:25:12,638 Speaker 1: But he's got good coverage these next two days, and 510 00:25:12,678 --> 00:25:15,198 Speaker 1: again this team feels like it's bulletproof. Yeah, I think you, 511 00:25:15,278 --> 00:25:16,558 Speaker 1: just like you said, just gonna be a little bit 512 00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:18,398 Speaker 1: less patient. And who knows. I mean, Nolah could just 513 00:25:18,438 --> 00:25:19,838 Speaker 1: flip it out there and all of a sudden, it's 514 00:25:19,958 --> 00:25:24,278 Speaker 1: it's gonna look like classic Nola tonight. That's definitely a possibility. Um. 515 00:25:24,678 --> 00:25:27,718 Speaker 1: But with him out of the stretch, does he lose 516 00:25:27,758 --> 00:25:29,318 Speaker 1: I don't know this for a fact. You know this, 517 00:25:29,398 --> 00:25:33,238 Speaker 1: Does he lose velocity or does he? Um? Uh? What? 518 00:25:33,398 --> 00:25:36,158 Speaker 1: What seems to diminish Other than yeah, it's more command. 519 00:25:36,318 --> 00:25:38,278 Speaker 1: And he told me he feels like he can be 520 00:25:38,478 --> 00:25:40,838 Speaker 1: slow out of the stretch to the plate and he 521 00:25:40,998 --> 00:25:44,758 Speaker 1: quickens up and gets underneath the baseball. Uh. And he's 522 00:25:44,758 --> 00:25:48,078 Speaker 1: got impeccable command. Normally, I've always felt like Aaron Nola, 523 00:25:48,118 --> 00:25:51,078 Speaker 1: if he lands his breaking ball right, it's lights out. 524 00:25:51,438 --> 00:25:53,678 Speaker 1: It all comes to that, as fastball command is generally 525 00:25:53,798 --> 00:25:55,438 Speaker 1: really good, but out of the stretch it's not so 526 00:25:55,558 --> 00:25:58,398 Speaker 1: much velo as it is getting underneath the ball and 527 00:25:58,878 --> 00:26:01,238 Speaker 1: kind of sprang his fastball more than he normally does. 528 00:26:01,518 --> 00:26:03,358 Speaker 1: It sounds like he might be concerned about the running 529 00:26:03,398 --> 00:26:06,318 Speaker 1: game a little bit it, which he shouldn't. But listen, 530 00:26:06,358 --> 00:26:07,958 Speaker 1: I have a lot of times I'm just I just 531 00:26:08,158 --> 00:26:09,558 Speaker 1: I want to just hear what you have to say 532 00:26:09,558 --> 00:26:11,558 Speaker 1: about that, because a lot of times I've asked guys 533 00:26:12,198 --> 00:26:14,278 Speaker 1: to be quicker to the plate, actually get their foot 534 00:26:14,278 --> 00:26:16,238 Speaker 1: down sooner in order to get their arm up and out, 535 00:26:16,678 --> 00:26:19,038 Speaker 1: which I thought only leads to better command as opposed 536 00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:21,518 Speaker 1: to pictures that one and more elongated delivery out of 537 00:26:21,558 --> 00:26:23,478 Speaker 1: the stretch because they think they could get more on 538 00:26:23,558 --> 00:26:25,798 Speaker 1: the pitch, and for me, a lot of times that 539 00:26:25,998 --> 00:26:28,558 Speaker 1: doesn't work quite as well as they think it would. 540 00:26:28,598 --> 00:26:31,958 Speaker 1: And I prefer foot down, arm out, arm up, and 541 00:26:32,238 --> 00:26:34,998 Speaker 1: ball coming out of hand with a quicker release, and 542 00:26:35,078 --> 00:26:37,398 Speaker 1: then also of course easier to control the running game. 543 00:26:37,398 --> 00:26:39,278 Speaker 1: But I watch it more closer tonight. I haven't really 544 00:26:39,318 --> 00:26:41,638 Speaker 1: seen him a whole lot, and I'll try to figure 545 00:26:41,638 --> 00:26:44,318 Speaker 1: out what I think. Yeah, I would go the opposite 546 00:26:44,398 --> 00:26:46,438 Speaker 1: with him based on what he told me and say, 547 00:26:46,478 --> 00:26:48,918 Speaker 1: you know what, don't worry about the renting game. Yeah, 548 00:26:49,038 --> 00:26:52,358 Speaker 1: make your pitches, execute your pitches. That's what it sounds like. Absolutely. 549 00:26:52,398 --> 00:26:54,078 Speaker 1: And you know with Houston, they've got some guys that 550 00:26:54,158 --> 00:26:56,398 Speaker 1: could run, but he's got a pretty good catcher back there, 551 00:26:57,118 --> 00:26:58,998 Speaker 1: one of the best, if not the best, no doubt 552 00:26:59,038 --> 00:27:02,758 Speaker 1: about that. So as long as things are rolling, Philly's away. 553 00:27:02,998 --> 00:27:05,918 Speaker 1: And you know, Philly's rate music town, a great history 554 00:27:05,998 --> 00:27:08,838 Speaker 1: especially it's a real good rock and roll and soul music. 555 00:27:09,078 --> 00:27:12,598 Speaker 1: What would be the soundtrack? What Philly artist would you 556 00:27:12,758 --> 00:27:15,478 Speaker 1: have on your turntable? Because I know you got a 557 00:27:15,518 --> 00:27:20,678 Speaker 1: turntable Joe Madden right there for for if you know 558 00:27:20,758 --> 00:27:22,678 Speaker 1: the way Philly is rolling here. I mean, we got 559 00:27:22,758 --> 00:27:25,918 Speaker 1: lots of options here. You can go Haull of Notes, 560 00:27:25,958 --> 00:27:28,038 Speaker 1: you can go quest Love, you can go Jim Croakey 561 00:27:28,358 --> 00:27:33,078 Speaker 1: the Roots. Uh. Harold Melbourne in the Blue Notes, who 562 00:27:33,918 --> 00:27:38,078 Speaker 1: finally thrown on? Whoa How? Harold Melvine in the Blue 563 00:27:38,118 --> 00:27:40,958 Speaker 1: Notes is one of my all time favorites. Man Um 564 00:27:41,278 --> 00:27:45,118 Speaker 1: used to play them at at the fraternity house um 565 00:27:45,758 --> 00:27:47,798 Speaker 1: at Lafiat College and say to side up there taking 566 00:27:47,838 --> 00:27:49,998 Speaker 1: my shower or whatever, and I put this big, big 567 00:27:50,038 --> 00:27:53,238 Speaker 1: old stereo on and I would just jam to Harold 568 00:27:53,358 --> 00:27:55,838 Speaker 1: Melbourne and the Bluest. But how about the Hughes Corporation. 569 00:27:56,838 --> 00:28:00,278 Speaker 1: Good call rock the Boat? Yeah that right? Yeah? Is 570 00:28:00,358 --> 00:28:02,758 Speaker 1: that right on? Is that the right? Yeah? I think 571 00:28:02,838 --> 00:28:06,518 Speaker 1: so yeah. I because being my buddy Kaz used to 572 00:28:06,558 --> 00:28:09,318 Speaker 1: go down to Philly to see the Phillies. We would 573 00:28:09,358 --> 00:28:11,398 Speaker 1: go down to the to the Vet. We drive in 574 00:28:11,438 --> 00:28:14,558 Speaker 1: in his UM sixty nine or seventy Chevelle, whatever was 575 00:28:14,598 --> 00:28:16,638 Speaker 1: going on at that moment, and I remember driving down 576 00:28:16,678 --> 00:28:20,238 Speaker 1: a school expressway and specifically with that song coming on, 577 00:28:20,558 --> 00:28:23,758 Speaker 1: and I thought, my god, that's There's nothing more Philadelphia 578 00:28:23,798 --> 00:28:25,918 Speaker 1: than that moment for me. So anytime I hear that 579 00:28:26,038 --> 00:28:29,278 Speaker 1: particular song, I'm always driving down the school Expressway with 580 00:28:29,398 --> 00:28:32,518 Speaker 1: Kats going to a Philly game at the VET and gosh, 581 00:28:32,598 --> 00:28:34,678 Speaker 1: what years with that? I you can't remember exactly when 582 00:28:34,718 --> 00:28:38,078 Speaker 1: that came out, but I do. I really identify that. 583 00:28:38,238 --> 00:28:39,718 Speaker 1: You could, you could go to Rocky and all that 584 00:28:39,838 --> 00:28:44,638 Speaker 1: stuff theme from Rocky whatever, But I'm into the Huse Corporation. 585 00:28:44,918 --> 00:28:46,998 Speaker 1: That might be though a forty five and not a 586 00:28:47,118 --> 00:28:49,358 Speaker 1: thirty three. I'm not sure if there's a number two 587 00:28:49,478 --> 00:28:52,718 Speaker 1: hit song, but it was at five now I know, 588 00:28:52,918 --> 00:28:54,798 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure, if they filled an album of 589 00:28:54,878 --> 00:28:58,198 Speaker 1: greatest hits, that might be a single greatest. It's like 590 00:28:58,358 --> 00:29:01,398 Speaker 1: it's like Iron Butterfly and got a DaVita. That's that's 591 00:29:01,398 --> 00:29:04,158 Speaker 1: their greatest hits. Sometimes one is all at ten as 592 00:29:04,238 --> 00:29:06,198 Speaker 1: I would go Hall of Notes, believe it or not, 593 00:29:06,918 --> 00:29:10,518 Speaker 1: only because I think that was the first concert that 594 00:29:10,598 --> 00:29:12,598 Speaker 1: I went to. It was a Hall of Notes concert. 595 00:29:12,798 --> 00:29:15,278 Speaker 1: Not bad. And you know what, Joe, some of their songs, 596 00:29:15,318 --> 00:29:17,158 Speaker 1: I'm not saying all of them, some of their songs 597 00:29:17,518 --> 00:29:20,318 Speaker 1: hold up really well. Yeah. Well, Sarah smile. My my 598 00:29:20,438 --> 00:29:24,278 Speaker 1: daughter's name is Sarah. And this is weird but true. Um, 599 00:29:24,918 --> 00:29:26,718 Speaker 1: you know, I have to go to the hospital she's 600 00:29:26,758 --> 00:29:28,958 Speaker 1: gonna be born and get up and we start getting 601 00:29:29,158 --> 00:29:30,918 Speaker 1: everything together to get in the car to go and 602 00:29:31,438 --> 00:29:32,958 Speaker 1: put on my radio because I always did. And of 603 00:29:32,998 --> 00:29:35,038 Speaker 1: course the first song that came on with Sarah smile, 604 00:29:35,678 --> 00:29:37,278 Speaker 1: and at that point did not know it's gonna be 605 00:29:37,278 --> 00:29:39,038 Speaker 1: a girl. We did not know at that point, So 606 00:29:39,438 --> 00:29:41,318 Speaker 1: Sarah smile. But the name was going to be Sarah. 607 00:29:42,038 --> 00:29:44,518 Speaker 1: And that's my Hall of Notes story and I'm sticking 608 00:29:44,558 --> 00:29:47,158 Speaker 1: to it. It was meant to be. But we'll say, 609 00:29:47,158 --> 00:29:50,518 Speaker 1: if it's meant to be another Phillies win. They're on 610 00:29:50,558 --> 00:29:54,678 Speaker 1: a roll right now. Philadelphia Phillies have games four and five, 611 00:29:55,118 --> 00:29:59,838 Speaker 1: at home, at the Bank, at places, a Madhouse. Whatever happens, 612 00:29:59,918 --> 00:30:03,678 Speaker 1: we'll be back at you with another episode of the 613 00:30:03,678 --> 00:30:07,318 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcasts. Joe Always Fun and thank you 614 00:30:07,398 --> 00:30:11,118 Speaker 1: and from Cu Cu Guard the Door to Happiness opens outward. 615 00:30:11,478 --> 00:30:14,958 Speaker 1: I'll with you before to that love it. Hey guys. 616 00:30:20,918 --> 00:30:23,198 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I 617 00:30:23,398 --> 00:30:26,678 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 618 00:30:26,758 --> 00:30:30,118 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 619 00:30:30,198 --> 00:30:31,158 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.