Speaker 1: Actually, when the valet came out, I was like, not know,
Speaker 1: he's the second hot valet I've had in a row.
Speaker 1: I think he knows that, like our valet is like calms,
Speaker 1: and I think he resents it. He definitely. I think
Speaker 1: he hates that because we're not paying cash. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: he tricked me. He goes, I'll retenders cash and I
Speaker 1: was like, no problem, and I did it. I was
Speaker 1: like whatever, I know. I was like, if that's what
Speaker 1: you need. Today's episode feels a long time coming because
Speaker 1: anyone who listened to this podcast knows that at least
Speaker 1: once an episode, I threatened Frand's life. Yes you do, Yes,
Speaker 1: you do, remarkably on the record at all times to
Speaker 1: have threatened. But if Fran ever dies under mysterious circumstances,
Speaker 1: it was not me, but it might have been our
Speaker 1: guest Caleb here in who's here to talk all about
Speaker 1: John Wayne Gacy and gay murderers at large. I mean
Speaker 1: both at large as in those who haven't been caught
Speaker 1: and then just like game murderers as a cultural phenomenon
Speaker 1: of course, and honestly, Ka, I mean we joke a
Speaker 1: little bit about it. But Caleb is the person to
Speaker 1: talk about game murders. Of course. Um. If you're not
Speaker 1: familiar with Caleb's work, he's like comedian. He has an
Speaker 1: amazing podcast called Keeping Records with his friend Shelby. He
Speaker 1: was friends co star in a Muna and Phoebe Bridges
Speaker 1: music video. Yes, that's where we met um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a pretty juicy convo. No pun intended in terms
Speaker 1: of the juiciness of human flesh. So if you want
Speaker 1: to hear all about Gaze who kill Um, you are
Speaker 1: in luck because this is like a virgin the show
Speaker 1: we give yesterday's pop culture Today's takes. I'm Rose, dam
Speaker 1: you and I'm fran Toronto. Okay, Rose, I have to
Speaker 1: say last week we were looking for Tea on drag
Speaker 1: Race and one of our loyal virgins sent sent some
Speaker 1: t to us. Are we about to blow up their spot?
Speaker 1: Do they work on drag Race and we're like going
Speaker 1: to get them fired? Or RuPaul is going to kill them? No,
Speaker 1: I'm I From what I understand, it feels like some
Speaker 1: very general Reddit t so we can just continue to
Speaker 1: say allegedly, So this was this was concerning our grapes
Speaker 1: that the queens are not getting any constructive criticism, none whatsoever,
Speaker 1: nothing even slightly negative, and even the stuff some of them,
Speaker 1: some of them are not, let's be clear, performing well yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and some of the even sometimes they even
Speaker 1: start to say something that could be considered constructive and
Speaker 1: then they have to end the sentence with a positive
Speaker 1: and it just feels so forced and unnatural because we've
Speaker 1: been watching these judges do what they do for eons
Speaker 1: without ever having to be and also it's drag everything.
Speaker 1: So the t that was spilt to us was I mean,
Speaker 1: first off, we were told that like, this season of
Speaker 1: production has been extremely difficult to produce, and that all
Speaker 1: the girls are winners and therefore legends and stars but
Speaker 1: also probably divas. But apparently the first two or three
Speaker 1: episodes did have actual like critiques and constructive criticism, but
Speaker 1: they were retroactively edited out because Raja basically like put
Speaker 1: her foot down, I mean allegedly put her foot down
Speaker 1: about the whole thing. Queen who shall not be named
Speaker 1: on a television show that will not be named, Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's important that it's Rajah. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: Rajah literally has a show in which she criticizes people's looks.
Speaker 1: I know that's so crazy, and she also is like
Speaker 1: truly the legend of the season, and I've been kind
Speaker 1: of shook that she hasn't one. I felt like she
Speaker 1: deserved to be in the lip sync for two of
Speaker 1: these episodes. Um, and she's been a little snubbed in
Speaker 1: my opinion. But anyways, Raja took a stand against the
Speaker 1: judges and was like, hey, we're not going to take
Speaker 1: this ship anymore, like we will not be critiqued to
Speaker 1: this degree or whatever. And she said, quote unquote allegedly,
Speaker 1: we don't need you, you need us, And there was
Speaker 1: like kind of like organizational fury among the queens. Well,
Speaker 1: that's true. And I think also, if I'm remembering correctly,
Speaker 1: what that person said in this message was that because
Speaker 1: this is all Stars, all winners, these queens spent so
Speaker 1: much money, yes on their looks to be there, and
Speaker 1: we're like, you are not going to rip us to
Speaker 1: shreds when we have invested all this to make your
Speaker 1: TV show. Because the queens, I think everyone kind of
Speaker 1: knows this. It's not like the queens get given a
Speaker 1: budget with which to put together their looks for the
Speaker 1: runways and for the challenges, like they invest all that
Speaker 1: money themselves. I think there's like I wish that there
Speaker 1: had been some sort of balance to strike because like
Speaker 1: in I'm thinking a lot of a door to Lano
Speaker 1: and how how shell shocked she was when she came
Speaker 1: to All Stars Too and was like, I don't belong here.
Speaker 1: My sister Michelle, who I love and adore, is like
Speaker 1: being a TV mom and really mean to me, and
Speaker 1: it was something that she emotionally could not handle, you know.
Speaker 1: She was just like in terms of like how criticism
Speaker 1: functions on the show, like it broke her. And I
Speaker 1: feel like there's something that is really severe that the
Speaker 1: Queen's experience that like I'm not privy to, so I'm
Speaker 1: willing to accept that that there's like, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: more nuanced than how they should be critiqued. However, it's
Speaker 1: not interesting anymore, like the runways. That's what's the point
Speaker 1: of having the judges there. It's really not And there
Speaker 1: is a way to make it work, both, I think,
Speaker 1: when they're actually shooting it and in the edit, because
Speaker 1: by the time they get to the final runway of
Speaker 1: the season, in every normal season, they might throw in
Speaker 1: like one or two constructive things, but it's still uniformly positive,
Speaker 1: because what they're saying is like, if you've gotten to
Speaker 1: this point, you are the best of the best, So
Speaker 1: we might give you like small little tweaks and nudges,
Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's all good. And I
Speaker 1: think the show could have been like that. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying these girls deserve to be torn to shreds, but not.
Speaker 1: Everything they're doing is good. And this is still a
Speaker 1: drag competition TV show, yes, And the steaks of the
Speaker 1: game are not high enough, and they're alluding to a twist,
Speaker 1: and I'll feel like the twist is a fake out,
Speaker 1: and like I'm just like I want twists, i want thrills,
Speaker 1: I want chills, and I'm not sure the season is
Speaker 1: going to give it to me. And it is getting
Speaker 1: boring speaking of a show that actually has shade and
Speaker 1: negative critiques on the judges panel. Um, I am all
Speaker 1: caught up on Legendary and I have to I have
Speaker 1: to give you just a quick, little, a quick little
Speaker 1: glimpse into how it's going. So in accordance with what
Speaker 1: we first talked about, it's like, not the best season
Speaker 1: of Legendary in terms of the competitors, but like the
Speaker 1: top three and top four of this show, which spoiler
Speaker 1: alert I'm about to say them are House of Juicy Guitur,
Speaker 1: House of rev Lan, and House of Yamamoto, which were
Speaker 1: like my top threes, and they are really that good.
Speaker 1: They have done like some of the best performances that
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in the history of the show. There
Speaker 1: was this one performance that was a kind of fairy
Speaker 1: tale interpretation of like Rapunzel, but like she had brave,
Speaker 1: like really long kind of like braids, and like it
Speaker 1: was so so seamless and gorgeous. But um, whoever is
Speaker 1: booking the guest judges for this show like needs to
Speaker 1: be held accountable because like there have been amazing people
Speaker 1: like Issa Ray, Bob the Drag Queen, Kelly Rowland, Um,
Speaker 1: Dominique Jackson, Leslie Jones, and then out of nowhere, some
Speaker 1: white guy named Jake Wesley Rogers who was introduced as
Speaker 1: the next Elton John on which, first of all, no
Speaker 1: thank you, um. Second of all, it's like some white
Speaker 1: guy in like you know, a feather bow up moment
Speaker 1: who gave a full performance on the show because now
Speaker 1: guest judges, I guess apparently give performances and then sat
Speaker 1: at you know, his little chair and like, you know,
Speaker 1: basically did nothing, had no connection to ballroom, had no
Speaker 1: connection really to the show, didn't really know what he
Speaker 1: was talking about, and his performance was bad. At In
Speaker 1: his like piano ballad, he talked about like if Marcia
Speaker 1: and Sylvia could be with us now, like blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: like something kind of like crazy weird like white ally
Speaker 1: ship like anthem music. But it was infuriating because I
Speaker 1: went and googled this man and he has a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand followers on Instagram, and I was like, this person
Speaker 1: is like not even like famous, like this is like
Speaker 1: an influencer question Mark. Well maybe he's like I don't know,
Speaker 1: legendaries on HBO, so maybe he's like some new like
Speaker 1: Ward or is like artists they're trying to push. How
Speaker 1: all those like back door things happen. People get attached
Speaker 1: to shows to like promote them. I definitely think that's
Speaker 1: what's happening, because it is. It was ugly to behold,
Speaker 1: and I was like, why are you here? Um, speaking
Speaker 1: of which I had no idea Kekie Palmer did music,
Speaker 1: or rather maybe I did, and I forgot. Did you
Speaker 1: know that she does seem like one of those triple threats,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the one of the actors, one
Speaker 1: of the stars who can do it all, which I
Speaker 1: actually have been thinking about a lot this weekend of
Speaker 1: a time when stars were stars, because I revisited the
Speaker 1: two thousand three filmed Down with Love this weekend with
Speaker 1: our friend La La and you and McGregor and Renee's
Speaker 1: Elwigger are in it, and I was just remembering a
Speaker 1: time when like the real stars could do it all,
Speaker 1: They could act, sing, dance, they were triple thre us.
Speaker 1: If you want an in depth um rundown of my
Speaker 1: take on Down with Love, I did make a TikTok
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, so feel free to lit to virgins
Speaker 1: go watch that, But I mean baseline like it is
Speaker 1: one of the best movies ever made, um perbetly and
Speaker 1: so many times on the pot about so many and
Speaker 1: it reminded me how obsessed I was with you and
Speaker 1: McGregor post Mulan rouge, and I think I'm I'm back
Speaker 1: on my you and bullshit. I finally started. This all
Speaker 1: happened because our friend La La and I were going
Speaker 1: to watch Obi Wan Kenobi, the New Star Wars show,
Speaker 1: and then somehow we're like, actually, let's watch it down
Speaker 1: with love and staid. Um. But I did start watching. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did start watching Obi Wan Kenobi yesterday. But I
Speaker 1: love you and McGregor. Have you ever seen Velvet Goldwine? No,
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of that. It's very gay. You
Speaker 1: need to watch it. Also, something very gay that I
Speaker 1: watched this weekend was one one Dalmatians, the Glen Close version,
Speaker 1: Glen's version, which have you still have never seen? I
Speaker 1: have never seen it? Um. I know I probably should
Speaker 1: have because I did go into such a spiral after
Speaker 1: Cruella came out last year. But yeah, I'll find some
Speaker 1: time soon and watch it, honestly now that now that
Speaker 1: I have so much more free time on my hands
Speaker 1: after our episode, you did end up watching Fatal Attraction, right? No?
Speaker 1: Oh you didn't? Okay, Well, they're very like my list.
Speaker 1: They're very double features. To me, Fatal Attraction to to
Speaker 1: one hundred one Dalmatians is like there's a distinct through
Speaker 1: line there. Um, well, the through line is Glenn Close.
Speaker 1: That I mean Glenn Close inhabiting a very specific character
Speaker 1: that I think, you know, I think it's very nuanced
Speaker 1: and beautiful, and I think when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: In watching this movie, it's just it's a cartoon, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean like it's live action, but it's there. The
Speaker 1: actings ry cartoonish. It's very silly. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: physical comedy. But watching it as an adult, first of all,
Speaker 1: Glenn isn't full drag and she's playing like a mean, pompous,
Speaker 1: like elitist like editor in chief like years before Miranda
Speaker 1: Priestley existed, And I thought that that was like so
Speaker 1: something that I hadn't really thought about. Um, But also
Speaker 1: like obviously Glenn is getting giving a performance of a lifetime.
Speaker 1: But um, the guys that play like the Henchman, which
Speaker 1: are Hugh Laurie and the guy that plays Mr Weasley
Speaker 1: and Harry Potter, are like the guys that are trying
Speaker 1: to basically like capture the dogs. They are giving physical
Speaker 1: comedy that is so like Home Alone level good and funny,
Speaker 1: like still funny to this day as an adult that
Speaker 1: like I'm feeling like honestly like physical comedy. It deserves
Speaker 1: to be like in the prestige acting category, like these
Speaker 1: actors are empty. I mean, yeah, it is a little empty,
Speaker 1: but that's it's it's a little It's a little kid's choice,
Speaker 1: like they should. They're they're getting they're getting slimed. They're
Speaker 1: not getting They're not getting prestige. Honey, slime that drop
Speaker 1: drop dropped the slime. But I just had to, you know,
Speaker 1: have a moment for them. I wish I could slime you.
Speaker 1: I would probably hate that unless it was like for money.
Speaker 1: I really hate being like dirt. I think I have
Speaker 1: been slimed before, um because there used to be a
Speaker 1: sort of like Nickelodeon experience at Universal when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and I do remember getting slimed in and
Speaker 1: around the time that I got to visit the set
Speaker 1: of Galagala Island. Oh I missed Galagala Island. Maybe we
Speaker 1: should should we go now to Galagala Island Island? Since
Speaker 1: we just spontaneously erupted into song, I do feel like
Speaker 1: it is a good time to have Kate Bush enter
Speaker 1: the chat um. If you have been on the internet
Speaker 1: any time since Stranger Things came out, you will know
Speaker 1: that Kate Bush was a big part of the new
Speaker 1: season and has made a cultural resurgence. She's been on
Speaker 1: the Billboard charts like she's been charting everywhere, running up
Speaker 1: that Hill, and there's I don't even know how how
Speaker 1: real this is that some people are like, oh no,
Speaker 1: we had to gate keep Kate Bush, we can't let
Speaker 1: everyone know about her. Um, that might just be like
Speaker 1: more of a meme. But if there are people who
Speaker 1: are saying that, like, please shut up, it is. It
Speaker 1: is incredible that I was in the car the other
Speaker 1: day and Kate Bush came on the radio. Not not
Speaker 1: an oldies channel, not like an eighties channel, she was
Speaker 1: just on the radio, and it was that was incredible.
Speaker 1: And anything that gets more people to listen to Kate
Speaker 1: Bush and and like especially a younger generation that will
Speaker 1: carry her music on so that it lives forever, that
Speaker 1: is a good thing. Kate Bush deserves that. And also,
Speaker 1: Kate Bush is not like a secret She's not I
Speaker 1: was not an underground artist. And it is amazing that
Speaker 1: every other TikTok I see Running Up that Hill is
Speaker 1: the background music. I agree, And you know, I'm someone
Speaker 1: who usually loves to get keep, but I I feel like,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, you know, when Poes had Running Up
Speaker 1: the Hill as a thematic through line in the first season,
Speaker 1: I honestly I felt more compelled by that so like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know a little like I roll about
Speaker 1: the Stranger Things, but obviously Stranger Things is a much
Speaker 1: huger phenomenon. So I mean, I love watching Kay transcend
Speaker 1: over and over again. Even though you know, you and
Speaker 1: I have been she's been our number one, you know,
Speaker 1: always and forever. Wait, what did we decide? Kate Bush's
Speaker 1: stand base is called Lion Hearts. That's that's what we're
Speaker 1: called Lion Hearts. I love that. And also some of
Speaker 1: her other music is also entering the charts, like Wathering
Speaker 1: Heights has started to chart. And also here's some other
Speaker 1: Kate Bush songs that need the running up that hill treatment.
Speaker 1: Rubber band girl, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I just
Speaker 1: want girl, no no no, put some others, put some others,
Speaker 1: give us a few more, give us a little digest.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I do think we need like a
Speaker 1: big Weathering Heights moment and maybe um and you're gonna
Speaker 1: roast me for this because I've already tweeted it, but like,
Speaker 1: I think that if the kid Bush of sons can
Speaker 1: lead to us finally getting a big budget Wathering Heights adaptation,
Speaker 1: which like somehow has never bag. I mean I'm sure,
Speaker 1: like a virgin will fact check me on that. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's like some fucking like BBC mini series of it,
Speaker 1: but I think we need a contemporary Weathering Heights adaptation.
Speaker 1: I'm offering myself up to be a right or on it.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing like an eight episode limited series. Um, that
Speaker 1: would be incredible. I'm in I would love that that
Speaker 1: that she needs some she needs many adaptations. I would
Speaker 1: love to honestly see a k Bush Jukebox musical, even
Speaker 1: though those are all kind of horrible, but I would watch.
Speaker 1: It's funny because like usually it's like we'll bring someone
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, let's talk about Twilight, Let's talk
Speaker 1: about America's next top model, and um, when I was
Speaker 1: like we should have Caleb as guest, we were like,
Speaker 1: what should we talk about? And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: Caleb talks a lot about John Wyne Casey. Look, look
Speaker 1: I'm ready to talk about And I did some research.
Speaker 1: I watched like four episodes of the Peacock documentary Last
Speaker 1: Thank You, So I feel like I am terrorized. It's insane.
Speaker 1: I feel like I was you know, I was watching
Speaker 1: my sister on screen. Yeah, my sister John yes, Sister
Speaker 1: in Christ. John Wayne Gacy was first and foremost funny.
Speaker 1: He was funny. He like literally in those if you
Speaker 1: watch there's a there's a long Peacock docuseries, then there's
Speaker 1: now a Netflix one as well. I've watched both of them.
Speaker 1: John Wyn Gaycy has some of the funniest because they
Speaker 1: have like interviews with him and he just would say
Speaker 1: like he at one point was like it was like
Speaker 1: everyone thinks that I did the clown stuff so that
Speaker 1: I could find victims, and that's not true. I did
Speaker 1: clowning because it was fun. He's like, it's truly like
Speaker 1: it's the same energy as if you just like photoshopped
Speaker 1: in like the drag Race confessional background, like it would
Speaker 1: work incredibly well. Which which one is better? Do you
Speaker 1: think the Peacock one is better? The Netflix one? I
Speaker 1: think probably the Well, it's hard because the Netflix one
Speaker 1: is really like if you really want to get in
Speaker 1: the details, like they're like like they do like timelines
Speaker 1: and family like victim family involved. The creative direction is
Speaker 1: a little better too, Yeah, the Netflix. The Netflix one
Speaker 1: is like, um, I would say, more of an undertaking.
Speaker 1: So that's more about the totality of the victims, and
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like the peacock one is more
Speaker 1: about him. Yeah, yes, yes, okay, you hear from the
Speaker 1: victims families. I want, I want, I want both. I
Speaker 1: also want more details about how he killed them. It's
Speaker 1: not bad. I mean no, that's very you. I mean no,
Speaker 1: no offense. But you do have a lot of murderer vibes.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I've always something about you. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I say Rose has killed before, We'll kill you. That's
Speaker 1: what I say. It's amazing that they were like that.
Speaker 1: Everyone was like, wow, Clownary, that's so insidious, and He's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you guys, I just genuinely loved clown. I just loved
Speaker 1: to He also says. He also says, um, people call me,
Speaker 1: people call me the gay killer clown. I'm bisexual. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you. I love that visibility for my community. Yeah,
Speaker 1: bisexual bisexual clowns. Just bisexual clown killer conrad sexual. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I I learning the thing that the biggest
Speaker 1: kind of like takeaway I got at least from John
Speaker 1: Wayne Daisy himself was like, look, look look like I'm
Speaker 1: not like a bad guy, like not a monster. I've
Speaker 1: just killed thirty three people, like it was a matter
Speaker 1: of fact to him. It was like a thing he
Speaker 1: did once. Yeah, I like when I'm they're talking to
Speaker 1: him the documentary and his sister has found out that
Speaker 1: he has been arrested, and she asked him if he
Speaker 1: killed someone, and they still thought that he had only
Speaker 1: killed one person, and she asked him, did you kill anybody?
Speaker 1: And he went uh huh, like he didn't say yes.
Speaker 1: He didn't say no. He said sure did well. He
Speaker 1: also yep, it's giving yes. He also went to he
Speaker 1: went to prison. If you if for listeners, if you
Speaker 1: um all my fans out there who are listening to um.
Speaker 1: He went to prison in Iowa for like committing like
Speaker 1: a sex crime against a young boy. And then so
Speaker 1: to me and then he and then he in prison
Speaker 1: like charms the staff. He like, they like start they
Speaker 1: let him become the head chef. He like gets a
Speaker 1: mini golf course and he literally gets a mini golf
Speaker 1: course installed at the prison. Wait, and then they let
Speaker 1: out that's like queer eye. He queer eye queer And
Speaker 1: then they let him out early because they liked him
Speaker 1: so much, like yes, and then he went to Chicago
Speaker 1: and killed a bunch of people came into federal prison
Speaker 1: and he said, look, this wallpaper just will not do. Caleb,
Speaker 1: when did you fall in love with John Wayne? Yeah,
Speaker 1: was because I know that it's like a deep and
Speaker 1: somewhat sexual kind of love, right, And I would refute that,
Speaker 1: but it's your podcast, so that idea. You heard it
Speaker 1: here first, you heard it here first, Breaking Breaking. I
Speaker 1: mean basically, I really was like, I'm infatuated with the
Speaker 1: fact that he's fat. Like I was like, Oh, a
Speaker 1: fat person who did something so evil. I think that's
Speaker 1: so interesting because a lot of like a lot of
Speaker 1: um killers I guess shouldn't say a lot, but there
Speaker 1: are a number of killers who like won people over
Speaker 1: by like like Ted Bundy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like he was everyone said, Jeffrey Dahmer, Yeah, my god
Speaker 1: was hot. No, I mean you're so sexy. You don't
Speaker 1: kill people. Don't do that. As an aside, though, like
Speaker 1: all every single documentary ever made about a murderer, like
Speaker 1: it's always like people like but he was so classically handsome,
Speaker 1: like his blue eyes, he was and looks like a booger. Everyone,
Speaker 1: everyone with John and Gacy was like, well, he really
Speaker 1: ran a parade you know, like he like organized a
Speaker 1: parade in Chicago and people are really charmed by that.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, oh, that's fascinating to me. And
Speaker 1: he lured people in by they worked for him. He
Speaker 1: had a contracting company, one of many businesses. He also,
Speaker 1: I think owned some kfc s. He was a CEO.
Speaker 1: He was Yeah, he was on his girl Boster forget.
Speaker 1: And he did the idea of being alive. He kept
Speaker 1: the idea of not being sexually assaulted and killed anyone
Speaker 1: ended it. Okay, so you were fascinated by this charismatic
Speaker 1: killer um and and what you know what, Like it's
Speaker 1: funny because like I think the first or second time
Speaker 1: we met you brought it up. I think maybe the
Speaker 1: doc had just come out or something, and you I
Speaker 1: didn't really know you the one I was like, why
Speaker 1: is this guy talking about? But also that's like exactly
Speaker 1: my like the thing I want to talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: like exactly where my humor lies. Um. But it what
Speaker 1: was it? What? Why was it like fresh on your mind?
Speaker 1: Or like what why does it continue to? What are
Speaker 1: you obsessed about with? There are two reasons. The first
Speaker 1: is that the documentary came out then, so much more
Speaker 1: about him. I've always like, in the time of knowing him,
Speaker 1: like what I probably learned about him high school, college
Speaker 1: or something. I have been like, Oh, it's fascinating that
Speaker 1: he was such a he He's maybe one of the
Speaker 1: big examples of a serial killer who had a true
Speaker 1: double life. Like he was like a family man, a
Speaker 1: business guy. He was like a community dude. His family
Speaker 1: was in the house where he was hiding bodies. Yes,
Speaker 1: and his wife, by the way, knew. She was like
Speaker 1: she was like, I knew he had boys out there.
Speaker 1: I just didn't know what he was doing. It's like
Speaker 1: the boys come, they don't leave, babe. Can we draw
Speaker 1: some conclusions like she knew? So anyway, So the documentary
Speaker 1: come out. And then the second reason is I am
Speaker 1: obsessed with the fact and I'm scared to say this
Speaker 1: publicly because I don't want someone to do it before
Speaker 1: I get a chance to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: I am completely confused a byt the fact he doesn't
Speaker 1: have a biopic. I here's the thing. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think we talked about this when we first when we
Speaker 1: first like when we were at that like bonfire thing,
Speaker 1: and there is unfortunately satired he had and there's a
Speaker 1: really good there's a really good movie in that. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'm shocked. Well because I think the closest that's come
Speaker 1: is um the Freak Show season of American Horror Story
Speaker 1: where they had the clown. But yeah, I am. I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: Ryan Murphy, how haven't tried it? Probably just because John
Speaker 1: Wayne Gazy isn't hot. I'm I'm telling you, there's some
Speaker 1: fat He's like, I can't cast any of the burnette
Speaker 1: people with very defined eyebrows that I like to cast
Speaker 1: in movies. Um, Like, he just kind of cast the
Speaker 1: exact same guy, like over and over again. Right, It's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a bunch of brunettes. Well, hang on,
Speaker 1: have you seen that? Have you seen to have? I've
Speaker 1: been on tumbled in the past twenty years. I think
Speaker 1: that it's crazy. It's never biopic. I think the John
Speaker 1: Wayne Gacy biopic will go hard, like a gritty dark
Speaker 1: like there, I'm it'll happen. I don't have That's how
Speaker 1: you'll win your Oscar, Honey. If you think I haven't
Speaker 1: said this before, I mean, biopics are a great way
Speaker 1: to go if you want to win an Oscar. But
Speaker 1: the thing is okay, I know I saw Bohemian Rhapsody unfortunately,
Speaker 1: thank you. When actors actresses like decide to play murderers,
Speaker 1: it's always like why you know what I mean, because
Speaker 1: they want to win awards, Like it's that that Charlie
Speaker 1: has won her oscar you know she like got ugly
Speaker 1: to play Eileen Warnos queen. Yeah. What always like when
Speaker 1: zac Efron played I can't remember who he played, Ted Bundy,
Speaker 1: and then Evan Peters is going to be in the
Speaker 1: New Ryan Murphy Jeffrey Dahmer. Evan Peters plays a murder
Speaker 1: and like everything I feel it's true. It's a way
Speaker 1: to prove your seriousness. I think. I think people go
Speaker 1: because like zac Efron needed to prove a seriousness from
Speaker 1: the Disney era, right, Um, Like I think, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a way for people to go, oh they can actually
Speaker 1: they can actually act, you know. I think it's like
Speaker 1: a big turn for people and we love now well
Speaker 1: now the culture is so much about um empathizing with
Speaker 1: the murderers and figuring out the psychology of why they
Speaker 1: did what they did. We have this huge cultural preoccupation
Speaker 1: with true crime. Um. I think both like fictional and
Speaker 1: you know documentary, So yeah, I do. It does feel
Speaker 1: like these two John Wayne Gacy shows are a sign
Speaker 1: that this is a story we will be exploring more,
Speaker 1: because I feel like we've had like five Ted Mundy things,
Speaker 1: We've had a bunch of Jeffrey Dahmer things. Now now
Speaker 1: I think it's sending in the clowns, sending the clowns,
Speaker 1: send to send in the clown So how how would
Speaker 1: you play him? Uh? Well, do I have the Do
Speaker 1: I have the depth to play John Wayne Gacy? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: But but but do I have the desire? Yes? But
Speaker 1: do I ultimately think it's gonna happen? I think so too.
Speaker 1: The movie about him would be a movie about the
Speaker 1: double life of it, all right, the charming like seeing
Speaker 1: him as as the who the world thinks he is,
Speaker 1: and then it has to be a very specific turn
Speaker 1: when you see him as he actually is, like this
Speaker 1: horrible monster. And I think there's a there's a part
Speaker 1: in the documentary that it is a really good there's
Speaker 1: a really good way to do it that I think
Speaker 1: is the only way to do it. So unfortunately I'll
Speaker 1: have to write the screenplays. Yeah, it's really because even
Speaker 1: in the documentary um. When he's describing how he actually
Speaker 1: killed people, it's still very like he's so normal. When
Speaker 1: he's talking about the turn a kit he made to
Speaker 1: strangle them, it's just like he's talking about, you know,
Speaker 1: like one of his construction jobs. It's so matter of fact.
Speaker 1: And I just wonder what it was like when it
Speaker 1: was actually happening. I wonder if he maintained that while
Speaker 1: he was murdering these people, or if he became scary
Speaker 1: scary clown killer the Netflix. The Netflix documentary talks they
Speaker 1: interview a guy who got away. Yeah, the interview of victim,
Speaker 1: like a potential victim horrifying. Oh, I watched that area.
Speaker 1: I watched. I watched documentaries about everything. Documentaries are like
Speaker 1: mostly what I watched. And I will say that that
Speaker 1: moment when he was talking about, like he talks about
Speaker 1: when John Wayne Casey was probably about to kill him
Speaker 1: I had to turn, I was like, I actually I
Speaker 1: cannot watch this right now. It was really horrifying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't watch it as soon as I was already
Speaker 1: in a dark when we have to prepare for this
Speaker 1: episode about a rough week mentally like been in a
Speaker 1: dark place, I was like, oh great, now I have
Speaker 1: to learn about John We were we frands the other night.
Speaker 1: We were emailing my therapist about Alexa proviscriped and like,
Speaker 1: I'm like watching a Docky series about John Wayne Gaze.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I'm like, I don't know something
Speaker 1: about my job, my chosen profession. The other night we
Speaker 1: were at friends and like I was going through it
Speaker 1: and we were like trying to figure out something to watch,
Speaker 1: and we were like, oh, we're recording with Caleb this weekend.
Speaker 1: I guess we should try to watch the John Wayne
Speaker 1: Gayzy talk. And I think we both looked at each
Speaker 1: other and we're like, not now now. I also want
Speaker 1: to let the listeners know. I have a couple of
Speaker 1: notes for the listeners. The first is that the I
Speaker 1: was asked to do the podcast, I said yes, of
Speaker 1: course I would love to the podcast, and then you
Speaker 1: guys producer emailed me and said, we really think you
Speaker 1: should do gay Killers. Don't have talked about anything. I
Speaker 1: did not do that. I talked about anything. Emails Phoebe
Speaker 1: pro user. Phoebe really pushed that hard. You are open
Speaker 1: to anybody, like Pope said, we will die if you
Speaker 1: don't do kill. What is the other thing you would
Speaker 1: have done I would have done anything. I don't I
Speaker 1: would have done anything. So so Brand's Brand's telling the
Speaker 1: listeners like I was in a a dark place, but
Speaker 1: Caleb made me watch this for his episode. I'm like, please, baby,
Speaker 1: I would have talked about I would have talked about
Speaker 1: the history of high heels. I would have talked about
Speaker 1: an actress in a movie. No, okay, this is like
Speaker 1: like a Virgin is a freeform podcast, okay, And for
Speaker 1: the Virgin at home, we we do not non consensually
Speaker 1: forced topic sign two potential guests, producer Phoebe will be reprimanded.
Speaker 1: Just kidding. We are a non punitive organization. We love
Speaker 1: you had let's talk about I mean, I want to
Speaker 1: talk more about but also like, what would the other
Speaker 1: topics have been? Curiosity? Truly, I was truly. Phoebe was
Speaker 1: like what about this? And I was like, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fine. Like I was come talking about anything. What
Speaker 1: would the other topics have been? I'll throw out some
Speaker 1: right off the top. Julia Roberts in general, in general,
Speaker 1: she's done everything for us. Aeron Rockovich, she has Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts and like, the thing is that there are no
Speaker 1: more Julia Roberts is there, will never be There will
Speaker 1: never be never. And it's also so sad that she's
Speaker 1: doing a show on like Cinemax right now or something.
Speaker 1: I've never watched that Homecoming show with the wig. I
Speaker 1: never will. I think this golden age of A list
Speaker 1: actors on TV has maybe run on a little long,
Speaker 1: and I want them back back in theater. I want
Speaker 1: it to be like how when you see previews now
Speaker 1: and they say exclusively in theaters and it sounds like
Speaker 1: a threat because of COVID. That's what I want for
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts, exclusively in theaters. My put my A List
Speaker 1: is back on the big screen. Yeah, Nsata Jones getting
Speaker 1: her out of Lifetime movies up to the big screen.
Speaker 1: She's doing the thing about Pam. It's like this, like random,
Speaker 1: what is it on? Like I don't know, like sun
Speaker 1: Stream platform I've never heard of, and I'm like, oh, girl,
Speaker 1: Kirsten Duns to that Fargo show, which, like I've heard
Speaker 1: is great. But she's in movies. Yeah, needed to be back.
Speaker 1: And here's what I will say also about TV and movies.
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts is in the only in my opinion the
Speaker 1: only successful stage to screen adaptation ever, which is, of
Speaker 1: course August so Stage County. Oly. It is the only
Speaker 1: play that has ever been successfully and well adapted to
Speaker 1: film and Meryl isms Meryll's Big Time in the thank
Speaker 1: you it would not have been made without her and
Speaker 1: miss Margot Martindale. Of course I never saw the movie,
Speaker 1: but I did see the original Broadway production, Thank you
Speaker 1: for going. Yes, You're welcome, brave and supporting life theater
Speaker 1: um August Age County as the only Okay, wait wait,
Speaker 1: but also I mean, does that so you're excluding like
Speaker 1: angels in America? I guess that's kind of hard to
Speaker 1: get through, Like you're talking some just plays or are
Speaker 1: we including musical? Go ahead and include musical? Because go ahead,
Speaker 1: and you're going to tell me that Chicago, that august
Speaker 1: s Age County is better than Chicago. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: two things. First of all, yes, and second of all,
Speaker 1: for context, I've never seen Chicago. Oh my god. Either one.
Speaker 1: I don't care. You don't need to see it on stage,
Speaker 1: but on screen you absolutely have to. It's the best
Speaker 1: movie ever made. I I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: about that, but it is. It is really good. Um, wait,
Speaker 1: there's another stage to screen one that I was thinking.
Speaker 1: I was like, that was actually really the musical parts
Speaker 1: one into coming in. Never wait, I will give you
Speaker 1: a really close second. I will give you a really
Speaker 1: close second. It does not top August Stage County hair Spray,
Speaker 1: hair Spur Good hair Spray, got there. You know what's
Speaker 1: a really dark fact about me is that when I
Speaker 1: was in high school, I performed Good Morning Baltimore at
Speaker 1: the opening number from a hair Spray at mar Lagos
Speaker 1: good Morning. No brand always says that saying too much
Speaker 1: on this podcast, The Incredible Good give it up. He
Speaker 1: wasn't there. I think I also didn't. I did not
Speaker 1: perform a solo. It's not like I was Tracy turn
Speaker 1: it was. It was a group number, but it was
Speaker 1: at Marl. I did perform. I did perform at the
Speaker 1: Fascist Tower. It was the King, wasn't There was a
Speaker 1: fundraiser that was a really scary good impression by the way,
Speaker 1: that was terrified. It was a fundraiser for the n
Speaker 1: r R. Yeah, I've never seen you there at Marl. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I know. Well they don't let me in post transition. God,
Speaker 1: I forgot about Yeah, she's the only one was Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts ever going a musical because like every like prestige
Speaker 1: actor always tries to do a musical, I know. But
Speaker 1: there was a On the flip side, there was a
Speaker 1: musical adaptation of Pretty Woman that I saw a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, and it was one of the worst
Speaker 1: pieces I've ever seen on stage. I could see that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was horrid. I could see that being the truth.
Speaker 1: And your favorite Julie Roberts movie is as if you
Speaker 1: could pay I just um, I wasn't prepared for this
Speaker 1: because Phoebe forced me to do Get Killer, my favorite
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts movie. Um, I'm gonna just have to say,
Speaker 1: I do think it's mona Lisa smile. I never seen it, well,
Speaker 1: I've never seen it, and it's all the girls are
Speaker 1: in it right, Oh yeah, Kirsten dunns Um, Maggie, Jillan Hall,
Speaker 1: Julia Stiles, Julia Styles of course canonically Julia Stiles say,
Speaker 1: Julia Roberts, all the Julia's, every Juliet you could they really, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they gathered all the Julia's for that one. Yeah. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: that movie is great. But I'm surprised that that's your
Speaker 1: first pick a favorite. It's Aaron. Aaron Brockovich is actually
Speaker 1: maybe in like top five top ten movies for me.
Speaker 1: Aaron Barkovich is amazing. It's a perfect film. I don't
Speaker 1: like it because of the politics. Yes, Mine is my
Speaker 1: best friend's wedding. Oh my god, the best rom com
Speaker 1: ever made. One of the best Chicago movies ever made. Also, oh,
Speaker 1: Chicago movie, it's worth I forgot that it's made in Chicago.
Speaker 1: You mean other than Chicago. That the movie? You do
Speaker 1: you not see Chicago when you're from Chico. From Chicago.
Speaker 1: I don't like musicals. Uh yeah, yeah, I don't like
Speaker 1: because it's it's every time something, every time a feeling
Speaker 1: gets too big, they start singing. But you know what's
Speaker 1: interesting is I could definitely see a John Wayne Gacy musical.
Speaker 1: Not only can you see that, you will see that.
Speaker 1: Come on out? Can you sing um a little? Just
Speaker 1: a little? You definitely can. I've heard it. I've heard
Speaker 1: it before, just a little. I would give anything in
Speaker 1: other than hard working commitment. I would give anything in
Speaker 1: the world to be a musician, and instead I do
Speaker 1: comedy because that's easier. Musician, Like what kind of music?
Speaker 1: Oh god? You also talked a lot about Garth Brooks
Speaker 1: when during at that fire I thought we were having
Speaker 1: a cousual hang out. Fan remembers everything because I will
Speaker 1: say something and she'll go, well, actually, last week you
Speaker 1: said this about this. She clocks on the record. It's
Speaker 1: it's on a podcast, available files everything away. She I
Speaker 1: don't remember a single thing that happens once we record
Speaker 1: an episode of this podcast, I like ejected from my
Speaker 1: banking on. Yeah, I gotta go, yeah, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I love Garth Brooks. Garth Brooks is one of the
Speaker 1: most sensational performers to ever live. And what was his
Speaker 1: alter egos name Chris Gaines, which which was a bold?
Speaker 1: Which was a bold. Here's the thing, the girls don't
Speaker 1: take creative risks like Garth Brooks anymore. Garth Brooks tried
Speaker 1: to do an entire alter ego. What he was really wait,
Speaker 1: tell me more Garth Brooks in the I want to
Speaker 1: say it's it is late nineties or early two thousand,
Speaker 1: Garth Brooks does this alter ego? Now, Apparently it was
Speaker 1: for and I don't know if this is just a
Speaker 1: cover story they came up with. Apparently Garth Brooks was
Speaker 1: going to be in a movie where he played this
Speaker 1: this this like moody kind of rock musician named Chris
Speaker 1: Gaines who has like longer black hair and like a
Speaker 1: black like goatee. What And he put out an album
Speaker 1: as this person and like and it performed as as
Speaker 1: Chris Gaines an alter ego, and it was critically destroyed. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was going to say, but he's at the height
Speaker 1: of it. It was a serve. And also people don't
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people understand Garth Brooks
Speaker 1: was the most famous musician in the world. Like he
Speaker 1: he was not just the biggest country arts in the world.
Speaker 1: He was selling out like the biggest stadiums in the
Speaker 1: world three nights in a row. It was massive. He
Speaker 1: he had the I think I think to date he
Speaker 1: still has the biggest Central Park concert in history. I
Speaker 1: don't think I could name one single Garth Brooks song.
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily proud of that, but like, well, go
Speaker 1: off for Garth Brooks to to fully like, um, it's
Speaker 1: like Lady Gaga doing Joe Caled around for a whole album. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was like, it's it's me Joe. But I think now,
Speaker 1: I think now, like Garth Brooks could totally do that
Speaker 1: and get away with it. Yeah, I think I think
Speaker 1: it was. I think it's cool to be at the
Speaker 1: very top of your thing and have the kind of
Speaker 1: fearlessness it takes to do something so counter to what
Speaker 1: people want from you and so counter to what pays
Speaker 1: the bills. I think is like, that's actual artistry. Even
Speaker 1: though that I like the Chris Gaines project, not really,
Speaker 1: but like I like the I like the energy of
Speaker 1: being like I'm at the top of my game and
Speaker 1: have the biggest musicians in the world. Suck at all,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna Also, Chris Gaines does have a little bit
Speaker 1: serial killer energy for sure. It does a little to
Speaker 1: get back on top. Let's get it back in the
Speaker 1: corner with a gun. Okay, I want to I wanted.
Speaker 1: She's usually in the studio. She's not here today. They
Speaker 1: make it. What I want to know is your theory
Speaker 1: on why are there's so many gay murderers? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: is that? Being gay is a mental illness and that
Speaker 1: must be said, and it's not normal. And so once
Speaker 1: you allow yourself to go to that place, I think
Speaker 1: it's easy to allow yourself to go to other crimes.
Speaker 1: It's a gayway thing pathologically, you know it, just it
Speaker 1: makes clinical sense. Okay to be too. I know you're
Speaker 1: being funny, but I do. But do do also think
Speaker 1: that was dead? Si? I do. I know you're being funny, girl,
Speaker 1: but I do also think, especially in the seventies, like
Speaker 1: when you are, when you have desires that are so
Speaker 1: not normative in that social structure, like, isn't that much
Speaker 1: of a leap to be like, well, people already think
Speaker 1: I should go to prison for fucking someone in the ass,
Speaker 1: Like why didn't I just kill people? Well, okay, if
Speaker 1: we're going to be if I have to be as serious,
Speaker 1: no no, no, no, no, we don't know no no no,
Speaker 1: but I will say the thing of it. I think
Speaker 1: there are a lot of gay sociopaths. Whether or not
Speaker 1: to become killers is another thing, but yeah, I know
Speaker 1: many of them. I'm like, I I got a brunch
Speaker 1: with these people. I The thing about growing up in
Speaker 1: the closet is and so many more people did back
Speaker 1: then in such a more intense way. You learn how
Speaker 1: to mimic normal behavior, and you learn how to give
Speaker 1: people what they want, right sociopath shit, And so if
Speaker 1: you if you get good at doing that. I can
Speaker 1: totally understand how it comes, how it becomes this thing
Speaker 1: where like you, yeah, you you you're willing to do
Speaker 1: things that other people aren't willing to do because you
Speaker 1: truly believe you can hide it and please people and
Speaker 1: give them what they want to see because you're used
Speaker 1: to doing that, you know what I mean. You're gay
Speaker 1: in like the sixties, seventies, and eighties, you have to
Speaker 1: have a double life anyways, Like why not be a killer?
Speaker 1: Which is why he was killing other gay people? But
Speaker 1: gays are still killing today. I was last night, I
Speaker 1: was having dinner with some friends and one of them
Speaker 1: was telling me that their ex boyfriend had a very
Speaker 1: close brush with death from a gay serial killer because
Speaker 1: he was supposed to go camping with like his personal
Speaker 1: trainer and couldn't go last minute, And then the trainer
Speaker 1: never showed back up at the gym, and they found
Speaker 1: out later that the boys that he had taken into
Speaker 1: the woods he had killed them. Yes, what, there's still
Speaker 1: a bunch of yeah, yeah, did Johnny Casey eat anybody
Speaker 1: that was that was bad that was not his? I
Speaker 1: also think he's just like burying them. I also think,
Speaker 1: like if you're going to kill people and have like
Speaker 1: bodies around, Like I kind of want to know what
Speaker 1: it tastes. Like you're saying, if there was a dead body,
Speaker 1: you rose would eat something? Just a taste, just a
Speaker 1: taste what you saying? Like I'm saying, like in you know,
Speaker 1: if I lived in like hostile circumstances like the movie
Speaker 1: Hostel or Yellow Jackets, Yellow Jackets or um that movie
Speaker 1: Flesh that just came out with Sebastian stand and like
Speaker 1: I had so much money and so much power over
Speaker 1: people's lives, Like, yeah, I would want to try it.
Speaker 1: I just saw a headline recently about a guy who
Speaker 1: was like trapped at an elevator with his wife and
Speaker 1: he killed her an eider. But they were in there
Speaker 1: for like less than two days and he got in
Speaker 1: a lot of trouble and he also like he had
Speaker 1: a bag of trail mix and he was not in
Speaker 1: the mood for that. He actually went to the elevator
Speaker 1: with her dead body and a carving knife, and he's
Speaker 1: like he's the one that made it stop. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: like what you wouldn't just eat it raw? Though, would you? Like?
Speaker 1: How would you I would cook it? How would you
Speaker 1: prepare it. Um, I think I don't have an air fryer,
Speaker 1: and I'm not getting one for you know, I saw
Speaker 1: a TikTok yesterday that said it, I would do literally
Speaker 1: anything to have an air fryer, except by one, and
Speaker 1: that it's exactly how I feel about it. Um. I
Speaker 1: think I would make like a steak. I would want
Speaker 1: to eat. I would want to eat the butt. Um.
Speaker 1: That's that's a big part of that movie, flesh Fresh,
Speaker 1: Fresh Fresh. I think fresh, but it's like but I
Speaker 1: saw after It's good. It's a good cut. I'm sure
Speaker 1: maybe maybe some breast meat. I would maybe do like
Speaker 1: a fried kind of fried chicken sandwich scenario, like a
Speaker 1: fried sandwich, or a leg like you'd have like one
Speaker 1: of the big turkey legs at Disney. But I mean
Speaker 1: if I had to have someone God, speaking of turkey legs,
Speaker 1: I got invited to the Renfair. Have you? Oh God, No,
Speaker 1: are you kidding you? Oh? I can't stand it. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm on your side here and I can't stand it.
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I love it, but you want nothing
Speaker 1: but to be close to you. No, I said. My
Speaker 1: friend text me and said, do you want to go? It?
Speaker 1: Was a bunch of people I love. She said, you
Speaker 1: want to go with me and a bunch of people
Speaker 1: you love? And I text back and I said, that
Speaker 1: sounds horrible. Okay, well, if that happens again, text me.
Speaker 1: I'll say that sounds like a nightmare to me. But
Speaker 1: my friend Rose, whom you don't know, must she's not
Speaker 1: gonna see She's not gonna go with you. She's not
Speaker 1: gonna say hi. You won't know her, she will. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the inevitable question. Honestly, if we're getting on
Speaker 1: the topic of cannibalism, it's like if you so, if
Speaker 1: you were a serial murderer, a serial gay murderer, like
Speaker 1: how what what would the double life be? How would
Speaker 1: you be hiding bodies? Definitely not in the basement of
Speaker 1: my own house, I can tell you either, Like why
Speaker 1: would you do that? All of these murders like hid
Speaker 1: stuff in their own house, like talk about barrier gaze,
Speaker 1: like that really was it. I wouldn't do it because
Speaker 1: I'm such a moral person. I just never get to
Speaker 1: that place. Okay, But if you did too, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: because I think that's not true, and I think you
Speaker 1: would you find out on an actual killer actually maybe
Speaker 1: tests too much. The lady doth protests too much. I
Speaker 1: think actually the house makes sense now that I think
Speaker 1: about it, like it is your place. You control who
Speaker 1: goes in and out. But then the thing about John
Speaker 1: wayn Gaesy is he started inviting the cops over for dinner.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's great, let's have a little he got uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I do think he wanted to get caught
Speaker 1: for sure. He just want work. It's just not well.
Speaker 1: That's the thing with a lot of serial killers is
Speaker 1: they do want like sociopaths, they want that recognition. And
Speaker 1: also I think a lot of them must understand that
Speaker 1: it's not sustainable. They will get caught at some point,
Speaker 1: and so they might as well put on a little show.
Speaker 1: That's why they'll go dormant. Sometimes serial killers will go
Speaker 1: dormant for years and then be like I just can't stop,
Speaker 1: And then they go back. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: you got away with it. You if you were if
Speaker 1: you went doring for twelve years and then came back
Speaker 1: to it, you were away with it. You were done.
Speaker 1: You could have been free of it all. But then
Speaker 1: they just do it again, and I feel like, I mean, maybe,
Speaker 1: but you know, if he wanted to get caught. I'm
Speaker 1: sure like he got caught in the headlines RAND that
Speaker 1: week and he was like, you know, what representation matter.
Speaker 1: But then it's interesting when you see the footage of
Speaker 1: him like in handcuffs, his heads down, it's like he
Speaker 1: doesn't want anyone to see him. Um he did he
Speaker 1: tried to kill himself or I think, But I wonder
Speaker 1: if maybe that was all just part of the show.
Speaker 1: He went to his father's grave and was going to
Speaker 1: kill himself over his father's grave when they apprehended. But
Speaker 1: I think he's too much of a narcissist. I don't
Speaker 1: think he actually wanted to die. No, No, for sure not.
Speaker 1: He Also it was like when he was in prison,
Speaker 1: he would beat up people for being gay. He was weirdly.
Speaker 1: He was weirdly. He was weirdly homophobic, you know, hilarious.
Speaker 1: He's dead now, right, Yes, he died. I want to
Speaker 1: say he died, well did he eventually? I don't know
Speaker 1: if they actually got gave him the death penalty, if
Speaker 1: he died of a heart attack. Rest in power. But
Speaker 1: he died. Not that um I was reading about, because
Speaker 1: they all they found everything at his house or whatever,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what the funk happened in that house?
Speaker 1: They fully like the house continued to sell and resell,
Speaker 1: like obviously it was like on the market for a
Speaker 1: very long time, but like it literally sold last year.
Speaker 1: Would you would you spend a night there? Never? I
Speaker 1: mean if was paid, yes, but in god real estate,
Speaker 1: no you're not. You're not being paid. If I was
Speaker 1: like fran I got us an Airbnb and it was
Speaker 1: John Wayne probably is an Airbnb. It's probably like a
Speaker 1: Joshua Tree esque like gentrify, like you know, cactus and
Speaker 1: a little terrarium. Would you go? Would you go for
Speaker 1: the gag? No? Would you spend a name Johnny Gas?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. I'm gathering I would for the weekend a
Speaker 1: weekend quick? What would you What would you do there? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, I'd like sleep in, read some books, maybe
Speaker 1: like do a tarot reading. You wanted to summon the
Speaker 1: spirits of all the twinks he murdered on the lamy
Speaker 1: want to help me move on? It's like a circuit
Speaker 1: party up in there, just with ghosts. That's what ghost
Speaker 1: circuit party. Yeah, it's like it's like a drag race viewing.
Speaker 1: You do it on a Friday. That's the thing about Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hosting at John Wayne Gacy's house. I feel like,
Speaker 1: even even if you don't have like an ounce of
Speaker 1: superstition in your body, what would move you to buy
Speaker 1: this house? Like being four dollars? Real estate's crazy real estate.
Speaker 1: It's crazy wa Chicago. Yeah, I was. I've been watching
Speaker 1: The Staircase on HBO. Have you watched it? I watched
Speaker 1: the original doc. I haven't seen that. I've never seen
Speaker 1: the original doc and I really want to watch the show.
Speaker 1: So the show is about a documentary that was made
Speaker 1: about Michael Peterson, who allegedly killed his wife. Um. It
Speaker 1: was a documentary series that was made by some French filmmakers. Um.
Speaker 1: This all happened in two thousand one, and now this
Speaker 1: is an HBO show about all of this, starring Colin
Speaker 1: Firth and Tony Collette. The most recent episode, Colin Firth
Speaker 1: is in prison and they're trying to you know, get
Speaker 1: money for his defense and appeals, and they're selling his
Speaker 1: house and like they have a huge mansion and they're
Speaker 1: saying that they they're going to have to sell it
Speaker 1: for like way under asking because of what happened there
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's some sickos out there who would pay more for
Speaker 1: a house. That's what I was going to say. It's
Speaker 1: like a historic like s Mark. Yeah, at least market value.
Speaker 1: Also someone someone has died everywhere. Yeah, that's the point.
Speaker 1: Definitely died in this room. I had Did you do it?
Speaker 1: You do? I mean like you are on record on
Speaker 1: this podcast threatening to kill people was like, I know,
Speaker 1: at least to the tea where people have. Um. I like,
Speaker 1: while I was looking at John and gazy stuff, I
Speaker 1: also got into the Lorraina Bobbitt case. Do you know
Speaker 1: about Lorna Bobbit by any chance? She's the woman that
Speaker 1: chopped off the off She got the dick off. Her
Speaker 1: husband's name was John Wayne, John Wayne Bobbitt. Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1: And John Wayne was like the twenty nine most popular
Speaker 1: name in the sixties or something. Yeah, I am my.
Speaker 1: My mom's said of family was big on like John
Speaker 1: Wayne lore So that kind of like tracks to me.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, the Lorena Bobbit thing was kind of
Speaker 1: crazy because, like everyone the whole story like at least well,
Speaker 1: I mean funny back story for me. My sister. She's
Speaker 1: three years younger than me, but she was born the
Speaker 1: same year that the Lorena bomba like kind of thing happened.
Speaker 1: It was like a huge, like newsy sensation that like
Speaker 1: very narrowly preceded Tanya Harding's like big like media blow up.
Speaker 1: And my sister's name when she was born was Lorena,
Speaker 1: and my parents like literally named her Lorena, and then
Speaker 1: this like story essentially emerged and my parents were like
Speaker 1: just kidding. Her name is Marissa now and they legally
Speaker 1: changed her name to like something different because of this woman.
Speaker 1: But Lorena is such a cute name. Yeah, Lorena is
Speaker 1: a really cute name. And my sister and I really
Speaker 1: love like the Lorena Bobbitt story now because, like I mean,
Speaker 1: in the like news media sensations of it all, like
Speaker 1: it was like a woman chopped guys dick off and
Speaker 1: threw it in the field and like that was it.
Speaker 1: Like she went crazy she had had it with him
Speaker 1: or whatever, but like she was like a victim of
Speaker 1: like marital rape and like he was a huge asshole
Speaker 1: and all this different stuff, and so like she's kind
Speaker 1: of become this like weird like feminist, maybe not a
Speaker 1: feminist like people are, Yeah, people are girl bossing her
Speaker 1: a little bit, which is like I don't think that's
Speaker 1: the move, but like I think it is. You think
Speaker 1: like a time to girl boss Lauren. Yeah, because like
Speaker 1: I stand Eileen Warnos. Yeah, yeah, any sort of girl murderer. Um.
Speaker 1: But John Wayne bobbitt Um, after this whole like debacle happened,
Speaker 1: went off to produce two different porns starring himself, one
Speaker 1: of which was autobiographical about the Lorena Bobbit's Right And
Speaker 1: it was an hour and fifteen minutes long and I
Speaker 1: watched a lot of it. It was crazy. Did you
Speaker 1: like it? To be honest? Did you jerk off to it? No?
Speaker 1: It was like pretty much the low friend. Definitely, the
Speaker 1: energy and the energy of the studio right now is
Speaker 1: such that I mean the table just lift it. To
Speaker 1: be honest, it was like the it was like the
Speaker 1: least stimulating porn ever. Like these girls like it was
Speaker 1: kind of like, then, why have you now positioned your
Speaker 1: entire sexuality? Well, his like his his dick is like, um,
Speaker 1: pretty small, and so they like go to town. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not size shaming. I'm just saying that, Like these
Speaker 1: girls kind of like it's like a kind of group
Speaker 1: sex scenario, and these girls go to town on his
Speaker 1: flaccid penis for like too long of a time. It's
Speaker 1: like I was like, this is not what I watched.
Speaker 1: Does it eventually get hard? Yes, it does eventually get
Speaker 1: hard and he ends up having sex. But like, what's
Speaker 1: funny is something about to learn about the case. Was
Speaker 1: that um, she made the mistake of in her like
Speaker 1: first police interviews saying that um, he could never make
Speaker 1: her come, and so when she said that, of course,
Speaker 1: the national story was like he could never make her hump,
Speaker 1: so she chopped his dick off or whatever. And so
Speaker 1: in the actual point, he comes very quickly. But like
Speaker 1: the whole story that he produces in the first porn
Speaker 1: about his life like this like a woman plays Lorena
Speaker 1: and he tells basically his side of the story through
Speaker 1: point you were just there. Abut Um, the fact that
Speaker 1: this is your favorite porn, I love that. I love
Speaker 1: that this horrible person made art out of his trauma. Um,
Speaker 1: it's so powerful. Is the power of art. A biography
Speaker 1: told through porn is very tempting. I will say, like
Speaker 1: that is something that you were inspired It would be
Speaker 1: a fun creative challenge. You know, we can hire a
Speaker 1: lot of our friends. We have a lot of friends
Speaker 1: that are in porn. Sure, sure, yeah, we're recording at
Speaker 1: the porn Star right after this. Yeah. Yeah. And and
Speaker 1: also during this, you've actually a lot of porn out there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's all extremely off putting their story and not
Speaker 1: in the good one. Well maybe you could do with
Speaker 1: John Wayne gay sy porn. No, oh, people would kill people.
Speaker 1: People wish autobiographical porn. I assume. Oh yeah, my life
Speaker 1: story is very present and infused in the projects I
Speaker 1: call them projects. So there's not only a lot of
Speaker 1: gay real gay killers. So I feel like, especially in
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties, there was a cultural preoccupation with
Speaker 1: queer murderers in movies. So like Silence of the lamb
Speaker 1: Um Dressed to Kill, I mean a lot of it
Speaker 1: was like there's a big trope of like trans murderers.
Speaker 1: I love Silence of the Lambs, which I had only seen.
Speaker 1: I've only seen for the first time, like within the
Speaker 1: past year and a half. I've never seen it. You've
Speaker 1: never seen it? Oh my god? Have you have you
Speaker 1: seen Silence in multiple times? Do you love? I do?
Speaker 1: I really, really really love Inthony Hopkins performance. So it
Speaker 1: just is it's like, it's amazing. It puts the lotion
Speaker 1: on its skin. It puts the lotion on its skin.
Speaker 1: I mean truly. The energy between Jodie Foster and Anthony
Speaker 1: Hopkins in that movie is just like I could watch.
Speaker 1: I could watch him sitting in a cage and her
Speaker 1: sitting on a chair talking. That could be a five
Speaker 1: hour movie that I would watch. Yes, have you heard
Speaker 1: of the TV show Hannibal. I've heard of it. Okay,
Speaker 1: So there's a TV show Hannibal that's like a Silence
Speaker 1: of the Lamb's kind of spinoff, and in it, Hannibal
Speaker 1: Lecter has this sort of psycho sexual relationship with a
Speaker 1: male FBI agent this time who's played by Hugh Dancy,
Speaker 1: Clara Daines's husband, and it is one of the shows
Speaker 1: that has the biggest fandom on Tumblr. There's so much
Speaker 1: fan fiction written about it. They also are canonically gay
Speaker 1: in the show, um, but I don't know if they
Speaker 1: were kissed. Also, Gillian Anderson in it, and at one
Speaker 1: point she eats her own leg. Gillian Anderson eats her
Speaker 1: own leg. Yeah, why need to watch it? I'm not
Speaker 1: Hannibal Lecter. It's people do things. Wait, do you guys,
Speaker 1: have you guys watched any or all of the following? No?
Speaker 1: What is the following is? And you really, really, you
Speaker 1: guys should watch this virgins please please, I'm making you
Speaker 1: guys watches and somebody the show has been canceled for
Speaker 1: years now, somebody save it. The following is got three
Speaker 1: seasons on FX. It is uh. It is a Kevin
Speaker 1: Bacon vehicle. Kevin Bacon plays an FBI agent who has
Speaker 1: a sordid, deep history personal history with the serial killer
Speaker 1: played by an actor whose name I can't remember right now.
Speaker 1: I remember the show you're talking about. And the serial
Speaker 1: killer has a cult following who will kill for him
Speaker 1: as well. So there's this deep I mean it's it
Speaker 1: really is like so there's a there's there's a gay subplots,
Speaker 1: there's like these two killers. So it follows Kevin Bacon
Speaker 1: and his journey with the serial killer and then also
Speaker 1: his cult followers and what they're doing and with his
Speaker 1: cult followers. He's so he's essentially an influencer, big time,
Speaker 1: big time. He got on his live and he was
Speaker 1: like a fens today we're going to be murdering this person.
Speaker 1: What do you think. When I was a kid and
Speaker 1: I got to pick my special birthday meal, it was
Speaker 1: always lobster. You are going to be horrified when I
Speaker 1: tell you what mine was my special birthday again, shout
Speaker 1: out to people who grew up without money. I didn't
Speaker 1: even try to pick something special. I literally knew what
Speaker 1: was available to us. My special birthday meal was um
Speaker 1: beani weeenies. What is that? Beanieenies? Is where you This
Speaker 1: is so disgusting. You caramelize like you like caramelize brown sugar,
Speaker 1: and then uh put cut up hot dogs in it,
Speaker 1: and then you put that in baked beans and make
Speaker 1: it up that. I was like, I was like birthday.
Speaker 1: I was like, cook up the hot dogs and put
Speaker 1: him in the beans by first class. I mean I
Speaker 1: was literally so excited too. I was like, cut him up, bitch.
Speaker 1: I was like, let's go, it's my day. Have you
Speaker 1: made that that for yourself as an adult now? Absolutely well?
Speaker 1: I haven't had it in years now When I um, well,
Speaker 1: I guess I guess I had. When I was really
Speaker 1: really broken Chicago, I would sometimes be like, this is
Speaker 1: actually special, this is really good. I like this. I
Speaker 1: definitely should make it for yourself tonight. You wish I
Speaker 1: could need something that would make me, that would make
Speaker 1: me ill, But I think you could. You could twist it.
Speaker 1: You could get like a really nice sausage from like
Speaker 1: Full Foods or like Gelson's Thank You, some artisanal baked beans,
Speaker 1: like brown sugar that's like been chopped off a rock.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know, I have been making. I have
Speaker 1: been making a stir fry recently that I'm really kind
Speaker 1: of getting up. I get. I don't know if you
Speaker 1: guys do this, but I get I'll make something new
Speaker 1: and I'll be like, oh, that was pretty good, And
Speaker 1: then for the next month, every time I cook, I'll
Speaker 1: make it and make it pilot yeah, over and over again.
Speaker 1: And it's I'm doing that with right now, with a
Speaker 1: starfry that has a sausage and black beans in it. Okay.
Speaker 1: I want to have solidarity with you with for kids
Speaker 1: that did not grow with a lot. I will say
Speaker 1: my birthday was not that we weren't that desperate my parents,
Speaker 1: like they always tell this story about so my parents
Speaker 1: were not ready to have me. I was like a
Speaker 1: honeymoon baby and they were like fun. Now we got
Speaker 1: to pay for a kid, and they were like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think a one bedroom apartment. And they all they
Speaker 1: did love me enough to make more than hot dogs.
Speaker 1: I will say give them credit at least I'm like
Speaker 1: some flop in the room. It is. It is a
Speaker 1: really sad meal. Like there's all but like I feel
Speaker 1: like what my parents like when it comes to like
Speaker 1: sad meals and stuff. My parents like really um. Their
Speaker 1: first meal like as a couple. They always told me
Speaker 1: after they found out that they had me they were
Speaker 1: going to have me as a baby, was a you
Speaker 1: know baghette, like a French bag at, like when I'm familiar,
Speaker 1: ninety cents from a block of cheddar, cheese, avocado, rotisserie
Speaker 1: chicken and lime. Oh so this is where your love
Speaker 1: of rotisserie chicken. I love so literally every and that
Speaker 1: was there, Like that was there, like this meal costs
Speaker 1: five dollars and we'll stretch over three days or whatever,
Speaker 1: and this is what we can eat. And like growing up,
Speaker 1: that was like my ship and I did request it
Speaker 1: all the time. For my birthday. I want to back
Speaker 1: at I want to go to and now it is
Speaker 1: kind of like the rotisseri chick in Sandwich. Now it
Speaker 1: is like kind of like a comfort meal to me. Like,
Speaker 1: would you guys Dad asked to Paris for me tonight
Speaker 1: midnight in Paris? Um, yeah, I mean we we let's go.
Speaker 1: What what are we doing in Paris? Are you happy
Speaker 1: to be in Paris? What if you guys want? I
Speaker 1: guess we should go to like, um, what's that like
Speaker 1: famous burlesque show. That's no, not that one, the other
Speaker 1: the Cat. It's called the Cat. I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: I can't remember, but I went, you're thinking of the
Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower. Yeah, yeah, there's that, you know that that
Speaker 1: tits and a straw to the Louver. So we should
Speaker 1: go to the Louver. No boom. I love museum. I
Speaker 1: love museums. No, museums are objectively more, guys, you're both
Speaker 1: pretending people that I listen to Frank Ocean's Bond album
Speaker 1: at museums, I walk around into the paintings. Tonight, I
Speaker 1: forced myself to have an experienced. I read the little
Speaker 1: like read That's what I tell you about the artist's life.
Speaker 1: I Jean Pierre was suicidal. I was like incredible. Also,
Speaker 1: the thing is when you're in a foreign country at
Speaker 1: museums have free WiFi, thank you. It's a great place
Speaker 1: to spend a couple of hours checking Instagram. I can't
Speaker 1: believe you run a culture podcast and you have the
Speaker 1: audacity to say this is that, this is, this is unacceptable.
Speaker 1: So let's let's go to Paris. This is actually great
Speaker 1: timing because I did murder someone and you do need
Speaker 1: to flee the country. Let's get out of here. Tell
Speaker 1: us what you want us to talk about next, whether
Speaker 1: it's a moment in culture, a book, a show, UM,
Speaker 1: an album. We want to hear from you. You can
Speaker 1: call to confess at three to three penance. That's three
Speaker 1: to three seven three six two six two three, or
Speaker 1: you can tag us on Instagram like a virgin fore
Speaker 1: slide into our d M s. We want to hear
Speaker 1: from you. Um. Also, please leave us a review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. That helps us out so much, even if
Speaker 1: you're a little you know, spicy with it. UM. I'm
Speaker 1: your co host, Rose damn you. You can find me
Speaker 1: on social media at Rose damn You. I'm fran You
Speaker 1: can find me at Franz squish Co wherever you want,
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin is an I heart radio production. Our
Speaker 1: producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller,
Speaker 1: Jess Crane, Chitch and Nikki Tour. See you next week
Speaker 1: and I hope you don't get murdered my