1
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:08,719
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob.

3
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,560
Speaker 3: Lamb and this is Joe McCormick.

4
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,400
Speaker 2: And in today's episode of Weird House Cinema, we're going

5
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,160
Speaker 2: to return once more to the wild world of Mexican

6
00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 2: horror to consider a film and a filmmaker often celebrated

7
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,200
Speaker 2: as one of its true greats. We'll be discussing the

8
00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:35,199
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven cult classic Alucarda, also known as Alucarda

9
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,320
Speaker 2: The Daughter of Darkness, directed by Juan Lopez Montezuma. While

10
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,520
Speaker 2: not well received by mainstream Mexican audiences at the time,

11
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,640
Speaker 2: it has become an obvious cult classic, a midnight movie.

12
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 2: It's been championed by the likes of Germeal de Toro,

13
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 2: David J. Skahl, Michael Weldon, just to name a few.

14
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 2: This is one you poked around online and you can

15
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 2: see folks are constantly discovering and discovering Alokarda, and everyone

16
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 2: seems to be blown away by it when they encounter it.

17
00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,959
Speaker 3: I think it's exactly the kind of film right for

18
00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 3: this sort of rediscovery, and I don't know a late

19
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,320
Speaker 3: positive reception because of the different textures that it gets into.

20
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,480
Speaker 3: A part of it feels like an art film. You know,

21
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:25,040
Speaker 3: it has some really interesting writing that's not writing and

22
00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 3: performance that is, you know, not just going through the

23
00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 3: standard horror tropes. But then there is also a lot

24
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,320
Speaker 3: of just standard horror exploitation content, and the way they

25
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 3: blend together is unusual and interesting. It's almost an intellectual film.

26
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,080
Speaker 3: But then it's also just a you know, frenzied getting

27
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 3: naked with the devil kind of thing.

28
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this film is it's a lot of things,

29
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 2: as we'll discuss. There's definitely a strong European gothic horror

30
00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 2: element to it, though to be clear, it is set

31
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 2: and filmed in Mexico, and then there's also a strong

32
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 2: avant garde surrealist element to it, and all of these

33
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 2: things kind of mixed together. As the name suggests, Alocardo,

34
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 2: which spelled backwards, is a Dracula.

35
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 3: This is certainly it is not just the Dracula.

36
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 2: Dracula yeah or yeah, or you know, it's the feminine

37
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,359
Speaker 2: version of Alocarde, I guess. But yeah, so it's certainly

38
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 2: a vampire film, or at least a film with a

39
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,200
Speaker 2: vampire in it. But it's also a lesbian love story.

40
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 2: It's a smoldering criticism of organized religion and just a

41
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 2: delirious fever dream of blasphemous horror.

42
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,639
Speaker 3: Certainly, blasphemous is an interesting lesbian love story. Is I

43
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 3: wonder about the criticism of organized religion that is one

44
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:55,040
Speaker 3: of the weirdest themes realized in the film. Because we

45
00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,320
Speaker 3: were sort of talking about this off mic, I would

46
00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 3: say the middle stretch of the movie is strongly anti clerical,

47
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,760
Speaker 3: and it sets up the Catholic authorities, the priests and

48
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 3: the and some of the nuns as almost the villains

49
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 3: of the movie. They're depicted as cruel and sadistic and

50
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,320
Speaker 3: superstitious in these scenes with self flagellation and the torture

51
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 3: of Justine. But then there's a very strange turn where

52
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,280
Speaker 3: essentially all of these these mad clerics that are being

53
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 3: set up as the villains in the middle of the

54
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 3: movie are vindicated and proven right well to a certain extent,

55
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 3: to a certain extent, and uh, then it's kind of like, wait, what,

56
00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,560
Speaker 3: Like the character who the doctor character who comes in

57
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,000
Speaker 3: to criticize what they're doing to these to these poor girls,

58
00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 3: is ultimately like humbled for his naive view of like

59
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,080
Speaker 3: not believing that the Devil is real and will turn

60
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 3: nuns into zombies.

61
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,840
Speaker 2: Well, this will be interesting to discuss. I would I

62
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 2: would argue that the clerical of side of things, that

63
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,440
Speaker 2: they're never redeemed in this picture. I think I think

64
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,600
Speaker 2: they're they're essentially villains throughout, but I don't.

65
00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 3: Know there's there.

66
00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,600
Speaker 2: This is a great thing about this film is there's

67
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 2: a lot of room for discussion and interpretation.

68
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if the main claricy I mean's certainly

69
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 3: like fatherless arro and stuff. I don't know if they're

70
00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,560
Speaker 3: ever made to look nice in the end, but they

71
00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 3: are sort of proven right, like their worldview was the

72
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 3: correct one in the end.

73
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,360
Speaker 2: To a certain extent. Well, well we'll get we'll get

74
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,479
Speaker 2: back to this. But I think one way to think

75
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,279
Speaker 2: about the film is to certainly compare it to Ken

76
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,520
Speaker 2: Russell's nineteen seventy one masterpiece of the Devils, which of

77
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,080
Speaker 2: course starred Vanessa Redgrave and Oliver Reed. Like this film,

78
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 2: The Devils is often sometimes thrown under the broad subgenre

79
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:47,039
Speaker 2: categorization of nonsploitation cinema, which it's a big tin nonsploitation.

80
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,200
Speaker 2: I mean it's a small tin in some ways, but

81
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 2: a big ten in others. So others so called nonsploitation

82
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,920
Speaker 2: films often center around explosions of sexuality, madness, and violence

83
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,320
Speaker 2: in a convent setting, but in other cases the sleazier

84
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: exploitation elements are more upfront and center, and when none

85
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 2: exploitation is referenced, that's generally the sort of picture we

86
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 2: think of, right, you know, something a little more purely

87
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,159
Speaker 2: scandalous without any kind of serious message wrapped up in

88
00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 2: the offering.

89
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to the extent that there is a

90
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,840
Speaker 3: serious message. I think these movies are usually concerned mostly

91
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 3: with sexual repression, and that they will feature a lot

92
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 3: of you know, habit ripping by the third ACD.

93
00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

94
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, And The Devil's is certainly that sort of picture.

95
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 2: But in the Devils all of the conflict emerges from

96
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 2: this sexual repression. So we end up with you know,

97
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 2: mass hysteria, murder and madness and oppression, and sexual repression

98
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,919
Speaker 2: is like the root cause of everything. Just to simplify

99
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,479
Speaker 2: a great film. In this movie, however, as we've already

100
00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,240
Speaker 2: been alluding to, yes, there is sexual repression and just

101
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 2: general oppress from the Church. But we also come to

102
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 2: learn that, oh, yeah, the devil is apparently real. The God,

103
00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,240
Speaker 2: to some extent or another is also real. All these

104
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 2: supernatural forces are in play. And then, therefore, how does

105
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,600
Speaker 2: that change our interpretation of madness and mass hysteria.

106
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 3: Not just God and the devil, but pyrokinesis and yeah,

107
00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 3: zombies and vampirism. Like a lot of stuff gets thrown

108
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,280
Speaker 3: in at the end there.

109
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also the vision of God that we see

110
00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 2: in this picture is at the very least a sterner God,

111
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,359
Speaker 2: more of an Old Testament vengeance God, as opposed to

112
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:45,440
Speaker 2: sort of like the benevolent grandfather power that is generally

113
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 2: more in play in some of your Gothic cars, where

114
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, the power of God there is here

115
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,159
Speaker 2: to serve as a massive battery for the crucifix that

116
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 2: you use to ward off the vampires. That's right.

117
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, the power of God in many of these other

118
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 3: stories is there too save the protagonists at the end,

119
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 3: to help and to save here. To the extent that

120
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,480
Speaker 3: God's power is made manifest, it is I think only

121
00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:10,680
Speaker 3: a punishing power.

122
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

123
00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,480
Speaker 2: If anything, it's like God is real, the devil is real.

124
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,840
Speaker 2: These two forces are in opposition, and then humanity is

125
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 2: just ground to a pulp between these two opposing forces. Yeah,

126
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,880
Speaker 2: and that may ultimately be the central message of the movie.

127
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 2: But again, this is a film that is going to

128
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,400
Speaker 2: lend itself well to varying interpretations because it ultimately presents

129
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 2: kind of a kaleidoscope image of things, as we'll discuss.

130
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 2: All right. I don't have an elevator pitch for this one.

131
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have something kindling there.

132
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 3: Joe, Well, not one that easily works just as text.

133
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 3: But I am imagining a kind of quick cut in

134
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,400
Speaker 3: a trailer that I would put together for this film,

135
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 3: and it would be a Lukarta saying the line, do

136
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 3: you know how small creatures love each other? I'll show you,

137
00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 3: and then it just cuts to everything being on fire.

138
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,000
Speaker 2: That's good, that's good. All right. Well, let's go ahead

139
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 2: and listen to just a little bit of the trailer

140
00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 2: audio for this picture, not the full trailer, I think,

141
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 2: and uh, and this is I believe going to be

142
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,800
Speaker 2: the Spanish language trailer, as we'll discuss, though this movie

143
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 2: was filmed in English and then then dubbed into Spanish.

144
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 2: Alka Got the Father Command, Stee, Got the Son Command Stee,

145
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 2: God the Holy Ghost Command.

146
00:08:31,520 --> 00:09:07,720
Speaker 4: Stee, Susanna Kamini a d not French Motuma.

147
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 2: All right, Well, if you would like to watch Alokarta

148
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 2: before proceeding with this episode or rewatch it, well, there

149
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,319
Speaker 2: are at least a couple of main ways to view it.

150
00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,680
Speaker 2: I initially watched it on the Mondo Macabro DVD, which

151
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,640
Speaker 2: has been out for a while now. They recently put

152
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 2: out another one of Montezuma's films, The Mention of Madness

153
00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,839
Speaker 2: on Blu Ray, But as far as I know, and

154
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,200
Speaker 2: I was checking in a little bit throughout the year,

155
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 2: there's no word on Alokarta also getting the Blu Ray

156
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 2: treatment anytime soon, but obviously there's hope that that would

157
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,160
Speaker 2: come to pass. The DVD is really solid though, film

158
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 2: quality is perfectly fine, and it features some nice extras

159
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:53,400
Speaker 2: and as of this recording, you can also stream Alocarda

160
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:58,559
Speaker 2: via the excellent Criterion channel. It's currently featured as part

161
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,560
Speaker 2: of their ten film Nunsploit playlist, which includes some other

162
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,120
Speaker 2: great films, including The Devils and So. As I was

163
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,679
Speaker 2: rewatching parts of the film while working on notes, I

164
00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 2: rewatched it on Criterion Channel and the film quality is

165
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:13,000
Speaker 2: the same as on the DVD.

166
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 3: I also watched it on the Criterion Channel stream. That

167
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,160
Speaker 3: was a good upload, I will say. So, you said

168
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,160
Speaker 3: you've got the Mondo Macabro DVD.

169
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 2: Yes, or I rented it from Video Drum here in Atlanta.

170
00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,319
Speaker 3: I see, I've got one. I haven't watched yet, but

171
00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 3: I've got a nunsploitation blu ray from Mondo Micabre for

172
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,440
Speaker 3: a different film called Satanico Pandemonium.

173
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,680
Speaker 2: Oh, that's another one. That's another title you frequently see

174
00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,680
Speaker 2: in discussion of nunsploitation. But I have not seen it myself.

175
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,679
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it yet, so I can't vouch for

176
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 3: it either way. But yeah, that's by the same producer,

177
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 3: so I think they may have put out a number

178
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,720
Speaker 3: of kind of wild nun films.

179
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 2: It's great to see Criterion Collection and Mondo Macabre coming together.

180
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:11,600
Speaker 2: That's the same films. It's not always the case. All right, Well,

181
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 2: let's go ahead and jump into a discussion of the

182
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,599
Speaker 2: folks involved in this picture, starting at the top with

183
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:21,000
Speaker 2: Juan Lopez Montezuma, the director. He also has story and

184
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,520
Speaker 2: screenplay credit producer and I'm not sure which one he is,

185
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,320
Speaker 2: but he also has a bit role as a monk

186
00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,280
Speaker 2: in this one of the sort of hinchman monks that

187
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 2: run around fetching things, tying people up. That's sort of

188
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 2: you know, typical nonspolitation monk business.

189
00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:36,640
Speaker 3: Those guys are supposed to be monks, the guys in

190
00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:38,160
Speaker 3: the black robes with the hoods.

191
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,440
Speaker 2: I think, so, yeah, that's so.

192
00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,719
Speaker 3: Weird because they nothing about them seems like they're of

193
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 3: a religious order. They are hinchmen, as you said, they're

194
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,199
Speaker 3: used to. They're like the mechanics of the film, you know,

195
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,840
Speaker 3: they're they're the ones who have to like lift things

196
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 3: and carry them around or tie somebody up.

197
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that, as is often the case,

198
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,839
Speaker 2: this movie's probably not good as primary search for how

199
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,679
Speaker 2: monasteries and convents work. It has a lot to say

200
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 2: about Catholicism, but it is not a good primary source

201
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,839
Speaker 2: for information on Catholicism. Montezuma lived nineteen thirty one through

202
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. Mexican actor, producer, writer, TV and radio personality,

203
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,160
Speaker 2: and director, best known for a trio of nineteen seventies

204
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,920
Speaker 2: horror films that really challenged just what a Mexican horror

205
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,199
Speaker 2: film could be. He'd worked as an actor previously, mostly

206
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 2: on the stage, but also started a long running Mexico

207
00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,520
Speaker 2: city radio program called Panorama di jazz. I don't think

208
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,480
Speaker 2: he stayed on it long, but he started it and

209
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,640
Speaker 2: it apparently lasted for a very long time, kind of

210
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,360
Speaker 2: an institution. He also served as a I couldn't find

211
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 2: any clips of this, but he was apparently a sort

212
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 2: of horror host on TV as well.

213
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,240
Speaker 3: Oh cool.

214
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:52,720
Speaker 2: He would present I think it was like a late

215
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 2: night thing and he would present old silent horror movies.

216
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 2: And there's an extra on the Mondo disc where I

217
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,199
Speaker 2: think there it's an interview with Guillermo del Toro from

218
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,200
Speaker 2: I want to say, like two thousand and two or something,

219
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,079
Speaker 2: a good bit younger. But he reflects on this. He

220
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:11,600
Speaker 2: reflects fondly on watching Montezuma on this television program, presenting

221
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:18,200
Speaker 2: movies like Nosferatu. So Mantezuma became involved in avant garde

222
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,520
Speaker 2: Mexican theater. After this, he became a collaborator with the

223
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,280
Speaker 2: legendary Alejandro Jodorowski, serving as producer on his nineteen sixty

224
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,880
Speaker 2: eight film Fando and Liss, as well as his famous

225
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,640
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy metaphysical Western el Copo, and then he set

226
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,760
Speaker 2: out to make his own horror films, which certainly stand

227
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,960
Speaker 2: as fine examples of Mexican horror, but they were also

228
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:46,160
Speaker 2: Montezuma's rebellion against mainstream film and established horror cinema in

229
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,320
Speaker 2: Mexico as well. He was not a fan of traditional

230
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,079
Speaker 2: Mexican horror cinema, stating in one interview quote, the Mexican

231
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,720
Speaker 2: tradition for such films is very simplistic and very conformist.

232
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,520
Speaker 2: In my opinion, in spite of their surface delirium. I

233
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:02,240
Speaker 2: don't really like them very much.

234
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 3: What surface delirium?

235
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I found this really interesting, and I guess with

236
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 2: as with most like broad statements like this, you can

237
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,400
Speaker 2: certainly point to counter examples from Mexican horror cinema and say, well,

238
00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,719
Speaker 2: you know, this is not mere surface delirium. Maybe goes

239
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 2: a bit deeper, but I get what he's saying. Like

240
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,040
Speaker 2: if you look at, say a, you look at an

241
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 2: El Santo monster movie, and yes, there are these delirious

242
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,760
Speaker 2: elements on the surface of things, but the basic structure

243
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,040
Speaker 2: is going to be generally formulaic. There's nothing subversive there

244
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 2: there's no surprise in the outcome. And so what he

245
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,359
Speaker 2: clearly sets out to do in his films is Montezuma,

246
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,360
Speaker 2: that is to create a true depth of delirium, so

247
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,160
Speaker 2: madness from bottom.

248
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 3: To top, not shallow depravity, but deep depravity. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

249
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 3: I guess I can see what he's saying that a

250
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,160
Speaker 3: lot of these older Mexican horror films, while they might

251
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,760
Speaker 3: have very weird sights and sounds or some strange things

252
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,080
Speaker 3: going on, ultimately the story is going to be somewhat

253
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 3: predictable and its values are conventional.

254
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

255
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I agree with that, but

256
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,040
Speaker 3: I understand what he's saying.

257
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And again I think it's a criticism that

258
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:19,840
Speaker 2: is going to apply to certain films more than others.

259
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 2: But it does seem to be like a motivating principle

260
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 2: for him, And when you look at his films, you

261
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 2: can see like, yeah, this is a guy that's trying

262
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,520
Speaker 2: to really make the weirdness and the madness go from

263
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:36,440
Speaker 2: bottom to top. So I was reading about this movie

264
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,960
Speaker 2: in Montezuma in general in a book by Doyle Green.

265
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 2: He's a film critic and writer. The book is the

266
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 2: Mexican cinema of darkness, and he also points out that

267
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,480
Speaker 2: Mexican horror films, especially Luca horror films, are big on

268
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 2: telling rather than showing. I think we can think we

269
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 2: can reflect on various examples where like Santo was having

270
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 2: a discussion with a scientist and they lay out all

271
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 2: the details, and so Montazuma is the opposite. He would

272
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 2: rather show you.

273
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I can see that in this film. Actually

274
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 3: this leans more on the other side. There's a lot

275
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,160
Speaker 3: of stuff that it does not hold your hand. I

276
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 3: don't know what's going on in some parts, like I

277
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 3: really don't know why something happened sometimes or what it's

278
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 3: supposed to mean.

279
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when there is an explanation, like when Father

280
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 2: Lazaro describes what sort of demon he thinks they're dealing with,

281
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,080
Speaker 2: it really has no impact on anything.

282
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:30,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

283
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 3: Well that almost seemed like a parody. I've got that

284
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 3: line written down from later on, when he's like, oh, yeah,

285
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 3: it's a Type six devil or something like. It almost

286
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 3: seems like a parody of just the fussy taxonomy of

287
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,640
Speaker 3: evil that the clerics are using here.

288
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

289
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 2: So, given all of this, it should come as no

290
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,640
Speaker 2: surprise that Montazuma generally worked outside of the mainstream Mexican

291
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 2: film industry, at least in terms of financing and control.

292
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,480
Speaker 2: He still worked with notable professionals in Mexican filmmaking, and

293
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,160
Speaker 2: it apparently fiercely retained his own creative control over his visions.

294
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 2: So his first film was nineteen seventy three's The Mansion

295
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,359
Speaker 2: of Madness, released in the States and sometimes still referenced

296
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,840
Speaker 2: listed in I Think in IMDb, and also sometimes streamable

297
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,720
Speaker 2: under the title Doctor Tar's Torture Dungeon. It's based on

298
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 2: Edgar Allen Poe's The System of Doctor Tarr and Professor Feather,

299
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,119
Speaker 2: and it tells the story of an asylum where the

300
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 2: system of soothing has been abandoned in favor of a

301
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,640
Speaker 2: new system of well, let's say, a system of cruelty.

302
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,399
Speaker 2: And we quickly come to realize that this is the

303
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 2: case where oh, the inmates are running the asylum now,

304
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,080
Speaker 2: and they're led by someone going by the name anyway

305
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,879
Speaker 2: of doctor Millard. And this individual is played in the

306
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,239
Speaker 2: movie by Claudio Brooke, who will be talking about here

307
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 2: in a minute. This film is perhaps more of a

308
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 2: dark surrealist comedy than a pure horror picture, though it

309
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,280
Speaker 2: does have gothic horror elements. I saw this a couple

310
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,160
Speaker 2: of years ago rather liked it. And this film, as

311
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,959
Speaker 2: with Alucarda, was shot in English.

312
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,720
Speaker 3: This might be a kind of strange comparison. But though

313
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,520
Speaker 3: I haven't seen the movie, some of the clips I

314
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 3: have seen of Claudio Brooke in it, he a bit

315
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,360
Speaker 3: reminds me of Graham Chapman from Money Python.

316
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of absurdity in it because

317
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 2: he's you know, he ends up presenting himself initially as

318
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 2: maybe a revolutionary doctor who's running the asylum, and then

319
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 2: we quickly realized like, no, this was this was an

320
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 2: inmate of the asylum who's taken over. And so there's

321
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 2: a lot of toga wearing that ensues wild monologue's hysterical

322
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 2: laughter and so forth. And he does have blonde hair,

323
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 2: which certainly in that film, which adds to the.

324
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 3: Experience kind of yeah, shaggy blonde hair. We'll get to

325
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 3: more about Claudio Brooke in a minute, I'm sure, but

326
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 3: I am impressed with the the range that he gets

327
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 3: to portray in Alucarda.

328
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,600
Speaker 2: Oh Yeah, this is yeah, as we'll discuss this is

329
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 2: the case where he had got to do a dual

330
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 2: role and clearly had a lot of fun with it.

331
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,199
Speaker 3: Yeah. Hard to imagine two different parts more different.

332
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.

333
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 2: So Mantazuma followed Mansion up with a Hollywood co production,

334
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five's Mary Mary, Bloody Mary. I haven't seen

335
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 2: this one, but it is a modern erotic vampire film

336
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 2: and also sort of a jallo film, starring Christina Ferrera

337
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,000
Speaker 2: and featuring John Carodine in a small role. It was

338
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 2: also shot in English, and it's also said to be

339
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 2: quite good.

340
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 3: You know my taste for jallo. I'm intrigued. I'll have

341
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: to give this a look up. And then came alocarda,

342
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 3: this is which we're talking about today. Montazum is best

343
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 3: remembered and most controversial film due to its comparatively racy

344
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 3: content and certainly it's blasphemous themes. It draws on both

345
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 3: avant garde cinema and European Gothic hor traditions, and I

346
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 3: would say just feels absolutely self assured in its vision.

347
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 3: We may ponder and head scratch over what that vision

348
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 3: ultimately is and what he's trying to say, but it

349
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 3: seems very confident in its delivery. After these three big pictures,

350
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 3: Montezuma's output was a bit more limited. He directed a

351
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty three crime thriller title To Kill a Stranger,

352
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 3: which co starred Dean Stockwell and Donald Pleasants, and after

353
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 3: that his projects saw even smaller audiences. There's nineteen eighty

354
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 3: six as Welcome Maria and nineteen ninety four as The

355
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 3: Food of Fear, And at some point he wanted to

356
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 3: do a follow up to Alocarta titled Alokarta Rises from

357
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 3: the Tomb, but that never came to fruition before his

358
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 3: death in nineteen ninety five. As for other writers, let's see,

359
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 3: there's Alexis Antita Uroyo. These are the only screenplay credits

360
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 3: on the databases I was looking at. And then there's

361
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 3: also Yolanda Lopez Montezuma, also credited with a writer, also

362
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 3: with no other credits. I'm not sure if this is

363
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 3: a relative or not just a name without much additional contact.

364
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,280
Speaker 3: And then it's also typically noted that this film is

365
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 3: to some degree based on the novel Carmilla by Sheridan Lefanieu,

366
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: who lived eighteen fourteenth through eighteen seventy three, Irish author

367
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 3: who wrote, Yeah, eighteen seventy two's gothic novella Carmilla, a

368
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: foundational vampire novel and one that explores a lesbian relationship

369
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,640
Speaker 3: with I'm to understand some amount of nuance. I think

370
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: I started reading this book at this novella at some point,

371
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 3: set it down and didn't pick it back up.

372
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 2: That's on me, not on the novella. But I can't

373
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 2: speak to it with much doubt because I haven't finished it.

374
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 3: But this is worth noting, a vampire novel that pre

375
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 3: dates Dracula. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, so Dracula wasn't the first

376
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 3: wasn't even the first big one.

377
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. As we've discussed on the show before, Dracula as

378
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 2: a literary work is not as old as a lot

379
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 2: of people think it is, or may sort of casually

380
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 2: think of it as being. You know, we offer mate,

381
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,640
Speaker 2: we just lumped Dracula in with Frankenstein, when in fact,

382
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: you know, Frankenstein is an older work.

383
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. One of the weird things we've talked about is

384
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 3: how Dracula was only a few decades old when Nosferatu

385
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: the movie was made. Yeah, you know, it's like adapting

386
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 3: a movie today from a novel published in the nineties.

387
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, crazy. All right, let's talk about the cast here.

388
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna as I've done recently, I'm going to stick

389
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 2: with the idea that if your character is the title

390
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: of the film, even if you don't have top billing,

391
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about you first. And so that's

392
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: going to be the case here with Alokarda. She was

393
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 2: played by Tina Romero born nineteen forty nine.

394
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: What a force of nature she is in this movie.

395
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 3: She is fantastic and she is so scary, bringing lead,

396
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 3: heavy intensity in the eyes. She has this this just

397
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 3: burning stare where you feel like she could she could

398
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 3: literally set you on fire with her eyes, and turns

399
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 3: out she can't.

400
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there is, Yeah, she's able to. It's just

401
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: such a great performance, and she's able to channel this

402
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 2: feeling that Yeah, I mean, to a certain extent, it

403
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 2: is like she is a saint, or the inverse of

404
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: a saint. You know, she has access to different information

405
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 2: about reality. Truth is shining through her, and at times

406
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 2: that truth may be like gentle and reassuring and innocent.

407
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 2: Other times it may be shocking and horrifying and more

408
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: than you can take. And so yeah, I mean, you

409
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: really have to see it, of course to really understand

410
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: everything we're talking about here. But but yeah, she's She's

411
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 2: not like just a pure like evil character. It's not like, oh,

412
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: it's like if you think this is a demonic possession film,

413
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 2: and to a certain extent it is. This is not

414
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: a character that is possessed by a demon and is

415
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 2: snarling and cussing and so forth exorcist style the whole time.

416
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know another thing I was mentioning to you

417
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,440
Speaker 3: off Mike that I think is really interesting about this performance.

418
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 3: I think Tina Romero was something like twenty six twenty

419
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 3: seven when she made this film, But she really manages

420
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 3: to pull off a particular type of scary energy, which

421
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: is like a terrifying, unhinged teenager energy. She's not just

422
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: able to create a scary presence with her facial expressions

423
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: and all that, but she she is scary in a

424
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 3: particular way, in the way that like teenagers or young

425
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 3: people can be scary to old people. Do you know

426
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about?

427
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, my

428
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 2: child is thirteen now, so and all their friends are

429
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: like twelve or thirteen or fourteen. So yeah, I totally

430
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: get this.

431
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 3: Five.

432
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: Who are these creatures?

433
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, beyond just the direct threat of you know, satanic

434
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 3: magic being invoked and you know, to burn your body

435
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 3: or something, there is also just this generational mysteriousness.

436
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

437
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we'll have a lot to say about Tina

438
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: Romero's performance. It's a dual role as well. She also

439
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: plays Alakarta's mother in the beginning, and she's just terrific throughout. Now.

440
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: The love interest for Alucarta is the character Justine, played

441
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: by Susanna Kamini. I wasn't able to find any data

442
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: on this actress's age, when she was born and so forth,

443
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 2: but she was in all three of Montezuma's nineteen seventies

444
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: horror films, as well as To Kill a Stranger. She

445
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: was active through at least eighty six or perhaps two

446
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 2: thousand and seven, depending on which movie database you're looking at,

447
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 2: And it's difficult to compare her performance to Romero's because

448
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: Alokarta is, you know, the title character and is such

449
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: an intense character. But Justine, who is based here to

450
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: at least to a certain extent, on Dussad's Justine, is

451
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: an intentionally more subdued character. So you know, you can't.

452
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 2: It's apples and oranges to a certain extent. But I

453
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: think Comeni does a fine job and she gets to

454
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: shine in a different way during the final act.

455
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. The character of Justine is more passive

456
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: in being pulled along by the magic of Elakarda.

457
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's come back to Claudio Brook then.

458
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: Claudio Brook also has a dual role, a delightfully dual

459
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: role in this picture, playing both the rational doctor Ozak

460
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: and a romani hunchback who also may be a satyr

461
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: and may also be an agent of the devil or

462
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: the devil himself. It's unknown.

463
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 3: Maybe. I mean he is a goat man in his

464
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 3: hunchback form, he's just a goat. Yes, give him full

465
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 3: billy goat shaped beard. And yeah, does he have horns? Almost, well,

466
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: we don't really see. And there's hair, there's at least

467
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 3: hair going on the Yeah, there's a there's very curly hair.

468
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 3: So if there are horns, maybe they're underneath the curls.

469
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 3: The goat comparison in his human form is not subtle.

470
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 2: No, this and is not a subtle performance. Yeah, for

471
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: fans of like mystery science theater, and weird films. This

472
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: is kind of like imagine if Torgo were played by

473
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: an award winning actor that has essentially classically trained and

474
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: highly regarded. Yeah, so yeah, we've talked about Claudio Brooke

475
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: at least in passing on the show before. Fantastic actor

476
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: of the Golden Age of Mexican cinema. He has a

477
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: small role in The Devil's Reign which we briefly talked about,

478
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 2: which we covered on the show before, and we briefly

479
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 2: talked about Claudio Brook but it's not a very big part.

480
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 2: But here, yeah, we get to see him just do

481
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: a whole lot more. Here he gets to play both

482
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 2: sides of the gothic horror coin, you know, the straight

483
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 2: laced protagonist and also an Asian of chaos. Again, Claudio

484
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: Brook really got to run wild in Montezuma's previous film,

485
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: The Mansion of Madness, and his other horror films horror

486
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: and or sci fi and certainly in some cases Luca

487
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: films included sixty two's Neutron, The Atomic Superman versus The

488
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 2: Death Robots, sixty three's Neutron versus Doctor Carante, sixty threes,

489
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: Santo in The Wax Museum. So yes, he did get

490
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 2: to lock up with Santo. I don't know if they

491
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: actually lock up, and I haven't seen this one yet,

492
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: but I'm excited to at some point. He's in nineteen

493
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: seventy eight's The Bees, and he's also in Guierramel del

494
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: Toro's Chronos from nineteen ninety two. In that film, Del

495
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: Toro fans might remember him, he plays the aging deter

496
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 2: di la Guardia, who is seeking the Kronos device in

497
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 2: order to prolong his life.

498
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: He's the villain, not the protagonist.

499
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the villain in that. He's his Hinchman slash.

500
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: I Believe's son is Ron Pearlman's character. So he's constantly

501
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: like brating him and hitting him with a cane and

502
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: like give me that Chronis device.

503
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay.

504
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: So Del Toro a lot of praise on Claudio Brooke,

505
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: including in that I Believe Again two thousand and two

506
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 2: interview on the Mondo disc, here pointing out that he

507
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: had an almost mechanical perfection in his craft, something that

508
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: he compared to actors of the British school. Just a

509
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: solid professional. Outside of a smattering of horror and Luca films,

510
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 2: Claudier was a collaborator of the avant garde surrealist director

511
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: Luis Bounel, appearing in the sixty five film Simon of

512
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: the Desert and sixty two is the Exterminating Angel, and

513
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: I believe some others as well from that director. He

514
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 2: appeared in a variety of major Golden Age Mexican productions

515
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 2: as well as international productions like seventy six's Return of

516
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: a Man Called Horse, eighty nine's Romero, eighty nine's Licensed

517
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: to Kill, nineteen nineties Revenge that's a Tony Scott film,

518
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: and nineteen ninety one's One Man's War. Also, like I say,

519
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: this is a guy who had some big roles. He

520
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: played Jesus Christ in at least one Mexican reduction, like

521
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: I think it was a TV mini series that sort

522
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: of thing, so a major name in Mexico. And also

523
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: he had a you know, there's certainly a fair amount

524
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: of international prestige as well.

525
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 3: Wait, was the License to Kill he was in? That

526
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 3: was the James Bond movie.

527
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was in License to Kill well, which

528
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 2: I have not seen in so long. I don't know

529
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: who he plays. I imagine it's a relatively minor supporting character,

530
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: but I yeah, I don't remember him in that.

531
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: That's the James Bond revenge movie where he's not really

532
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 3: on an official mission, but he's on a revenge quest

533
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: against I think it's Robert Dove playing a drug kingpin

534
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: who feeds Felix lighter to a shark.

535
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this is the one. The main thing I

536
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: remember is is what Anthony Zerba is in that as well.

537
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and gets blown up and an air compressor

538
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 2: or something, which is a pretty horrific scene at the time.

539
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: Benicio del Toro is in that film as well, and

540
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 2: I don't remember him at all.

541
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: He's one of the villain's main hinchmen. He gets gruesomely

542
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 3: thrown into a grinder that's like chopping up bricks of cocaine.

543
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 2: Oh man. Yeah, it's been so long since I saw that,

544
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: probably a little too young, and I haven't seen it

545
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 2: since because it's a I remember being pretty gritty.

546
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a while, but I think gritty is

547
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: the right word. It is famously a kind of nastier,

548
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 3: more down to earth James Bond than a lot of

549
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: other films of that period.

550
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: Oh and I also mentioned that the character Doctor Olazak

551
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: has a daughter named Danelia, and this character is played

552
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: by actress Lily Garza, who would go on to be

553
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,959
Speaker 2: an Aerial Award winning TV director. All Right, let's get

554
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: into some of the more supporting characters here. We also

555
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: have the character of Father Lazaro, who we've already mentioned

556
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: a little bit, played by David Silva, who lived nineteen

557
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 2: seventeen through nineteen seventy six, a one time Aeriel Award

558
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: winner for nineteen forty seven's Champion without a Crown. And

559
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 2: speaking of the era, whereas I think I neglected to

560
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: mention earlier that Tina Romero also was at least nominated

561
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: I'm Sorry for award for nineteen eighty one's The Great Waters.

562
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: The Aerie Awards are essentially like the Oscars of Mexican cinema,

563
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: So anyway, David Silva won the award in nineteen forty seven,

564
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: and it was nominated three more times, including for his

565
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: role as the Colonel in nineteen seventy two's al Topo.

566
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: I do not remember I've seen al Topo. It's been

567
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 2: so many years. I don't remember his character.

568
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't either, but he.

569
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: Was an opera singer and actor with some you know,

570
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: shows up in a number of different bits of weird cinema.

571
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: He's in the Mansion of Madness. He's in Jo Roowski's

572
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: Holy Mountain from seventy three. He was in nineteen sixty

573
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: two's The Brainiac, which we previously discussed on the show.

574
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: I think of who is he.

575
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: He's one of the inspectors. I don't know if he

576
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 2: wears a flamethrower or not. He one of the less

577
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: notable characters, or at least in my viewing. And he's

578
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: also in nineteen sixty eight's The Batwoman, which we have

579
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: not covered on the show yet but I think is

580
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: maybe kind of inevitable.

581
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll end up there sooner or later.

582
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: Now I don't know for certain, but I have heavily

583
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: suspect that while Claudio Brooke and Tina Romero are delivering

584
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: all of their English language lines themselves, Silva feels like

585
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 2: he might have been dubbed here, Like his voice feels

586
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: very voice overy here. You know, it's like Lupita no.

587
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: Exactly, kind yeah, strong, Yeah, that is what it feels

588
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: like to me.

589
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, well, his physical performance, which is still great,

590
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: is you know, he's more of a sweating, self hating

591
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: lump of religious zeal And. I don't know, I just

592
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: I could be completely wrong on this. I'm not familiar

593
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: enough with his work, but it feels like maybe he's dubbed.

594
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 3: In English here. I love how they don't really set

595
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 3: us up for the first flagellation scene. You just don't

596
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 3: know that that's coming. And suddenly this guy and all

597
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: the nuns are like with their habits and tunics pulled

598
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 3: down and just whipping themselves are being whipped.

599
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and not in a way that feels like it's

600
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: supposed to be sexy.

601
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 3: No, no, no, none at all. No, it's like it's

602
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:10,840
Speaker 3: gross and pathetic.

603
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about some of the other members of

604
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: the cloth here and what bloodstained cloth it is. In

605
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: this picture, we have Sister Angelica, who is ultimately in

606
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: many ways, the more relatable member of the convent here

607
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 2: and the nicest of the nuns. Yes, the nicest of

608
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: the nuns. She's played by Tina French. Couldn't find any

609
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: information about her birthday. Her other credits include nineteen sixty

610
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 2: eight s Fando and Liss and nineteen ninety eight's Angel

611
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: of Light. As of twenty twenty two, she was still

612
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: active as an actress. But she has some really great

613
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: scenes in.

614
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 3: This Yeah, really great one where she as a she's

615
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 3: like a preying nun and she begins levitating sweating blood

616
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 3: and she delivers a lethal curse via prayer.

617
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 2: Yes, pretty amazing. It's an awesome sequence. Now there's also

618
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: Mother Superior played by Brigita Segeriskag. This is her only credit,

619
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: so I couldn't find anything about this individual. Then we

620
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: also have Sister Jermana, who I don't remember what Sister

621
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 2: Jermana really gets into. She's I think involved in some

622
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: dialogue scenes back and forth, and then she has a

623
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: particular fate that we'll discuss. But she is played by

624
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 2: Adriana Roel, who of nineteen thirty four through twenty twenty two.

625
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 2: We previously mentioned her because she played the werewolf's sister

626
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty five La Loba Ah okay, Yeah, and

627
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 2: she herself was an Aeriel Award winning actress for nineteen

628
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: seventy nine's Anna Cursa, and she also was in twenty

629
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: fourteens She doesn't want to sleep alone. And then finally,

630
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 2: the composer for this film was Anthony Gooffen. I wasn't

631
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 2: able to find information about when he was born his

632
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 2: dates either. This was his first credited score, but he'd

633
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: follow up Alocarda with nineteen eighty two's Deadly Eyes, which,

634
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: weirdly enough, is a Canadian killer rat movie produced by

635
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: Hong Kong's Golden Harvest.

636
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 3: That's going on the list.

637
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: And he also did the score for Larry Cohen's The

638
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: Stuff in nineteen eighty five, which weird film fans are

639
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: probably rather familiar with, and his credits in lesser known

640
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: films continue through about twenty twelve. The score here, I

641
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 2: think it has some nice electronic weirdness and of course

642
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: a lot of given the religious themes, you've got to

643
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 2: have some electric organ in there, and so we have

644
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: a lot of that going on.

645
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, solid soundscapes throughout.

646
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course numerous other professionals, as is always

647
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: the case, made this film possible. You know, the look

648
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 2: of it is pretty intense and incredible, and that ranges

649
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: from the costumes to the weird sets to the terrifying

650
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: man on fire stunts that you find throughout the last

651
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: act of the picture.

652
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, well, is it time to talk about

653
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: the plot let's do. It begins with the prologue, of course,

654
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 3: where we see the birth of our title character, or

655
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 3: not see the birth, we see the aftermath of the birth.

656
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: That's right, and this is a great sequence that really

657
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 2: sets the tone in many ways. Alakarta is born in

658
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 2: a crypt that has all the trappings of a manger.

659
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 2: It's a strange set already, You're just full of cobwebs, straw,

660
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: green vines, ruined statues. So is this a place of

661
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: death or birth or both? And then eventually we're gonna

662
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 2: see baby Alakarta taken away by I don't know, an

663
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 2: old Romani woman based on what we see later, or

664
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: is this supposed to be a witch some sort of

665
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: supernatural emissary Really hard to say at this point. And

666
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 2: she's sending the child away to keep him from getting

667
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: her And at first we might think, well him, who

668
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: is she afraid of? Is it you know it is

669
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 2: some sort of terrestrial force or no, is it something supernatural?

670
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: And if it is supernatural, is Alocarda threatened by the devil?

671
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: Or is Alacarta threatened by the Christian God?

672
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 3: Good question? This is a cold open, by the way,

673
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 3: This is like no credits or anything. He's just opened

674
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 3: straight up on this setting that is, as you mentioned,

675
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: weird in a number of ways. Like one thing is

676
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: it seems to be maybe underground. It's certainly enclosed, but

677
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: it's also overgrown on the inside with all these green plants.

678
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 3: It's a little unnatural. Do you notice the contrasting statues

679
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: all around, So like it's a mix of cultural symbols.

680
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: Some things look like they could be consistent with Catholic tradition,

681
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 3: Like I think maybe we see something that could be

682
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: Virgin Mary statues. But then the camera wheels over to

683
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 3: this statue up in the head of the room, which

684
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 3: looks to me like the Great God Pan. It's like

685
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 3: a youthful, shirtless male figure on top with what looks

686
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: like goat legs or something on the bottom. Hard to

687
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: say for sure. And then so the figure delivering the baby,

688
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: I thought was a man made to look like really

689
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 3: fairal looking, it is a figure wearing a pelt of

690
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 3: furs with straw just fully woven into his hair.

691
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was part of me was wondering if this

692
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: is Claudio Brook once again. Yeah, like the general body

693
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: form of the character would match Claudio Brook, you know,

694
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 2: sort of tall and slim. But I couldn't find a

695
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: good answer on this and could not positively id him

696
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 2: in this role either.

697
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: Yeah.

698
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 3: Also, this is not the movie's fault, but I just

699
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 3: had to note an association a Lukarta's mother here is

700
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: wearing what looks like a green velvet with this white

701
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: neck ruffle. And I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but

702
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: be reminded of the wardrobe from the classic mid two

703
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 3: thousand's Starburst commercial the berries and cream guy. I'm a

704
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: little lad who loves berries and cream. She's dressed like

705
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 3: that guy.

706
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 2: I was not familiar with this at all. I had

707
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: to look it up. Yeah, apparently this character is called

708
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: little Lad and was played by a dancer and actor

709
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: Jack Ferver.

710
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: Anyway, in the scene, Alukarta's mother says, poor little creature.

711
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 3: I won't be able to see Alukarta grow, but she

712
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: must survive. Take her to the convent. Please promise me

713
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: that you will protect her and don't let him take

714
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 3: her away. That's what you were talking about?

715
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: Him?

716
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: Who is him? And then the merit the person there,

717
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 3: swears and takes the baby away, and then there is

718
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 3: some kind of magical confrontation Alukarta's mother still like, by

719
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: the way, she's in not just a regular like we said,

720
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 3: she was in straw, but not just straw on the

721
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 3: floor in like a sunken pit in the middle of

722
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 3: the room, on a bed of straw, and she faces

723
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: up to look at the statue at the head of

724
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 3: the room, which whether it's you know, the god Pan

725
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 3: or something else. And then we hear otherworldly sounds, the

726
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: fluttering of bat wings, a dry, rasping groan, and then

727
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 3: she braces herself against the straw bed and she grimaces

728
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 3: like she's getting prepared for a psychic battle. Her eyes

729
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: grow wide. She screams, and then credits.

730
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that dry, raspy grown We're gonna hear that

731
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: time and time again throughout the movie. Is this the

732
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: presence sounds kind of like a like a zombie sound almost.

733
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: Is it the presence of the infernal? Or is this,

734
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: perversely like the presence of the divine? Uncertain?

735
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 3: It reminds me of the rasping of the witch in Suspirit.

736
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, good connection. Yeah, that's what it was reminding

737
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 2: me of as well. All right, so from here we

738
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 2: fast far fifteen years into the future. The year is

739
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,400
Speaker 2: I believe eighteen fifty and we have a new character, Justine,

740
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 2: and she is arriving at a convent in Mexico following

741
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: her pet parents' death.

742
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 3: That's right, And there are a mix of feelings I

743
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 3: would say generated by this scene. The visual environment of

744
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: the convent is I think quite dingy and depressing. Justine

745
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: is brought by wagon on this bare mud road outside

746
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: and we can see the outer walls of the convent

747
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: in broad daylight, and they seem to be just infinitely

748
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: smudged with filth and neglect. And then all around the

749
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 3: outside of the convent there are just people standing around

750
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 3: apparently with nothing to do, as if they're like waiting

751
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 3: for something. It just feels bad. But then on the

752
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 3: other hand, the nun who welcomes Justine when she arrives,

753
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 3: I think this is Sister Angelica, is very kind and warm,

754
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:55,879
Speaker 3: you know, she gives her a whole like, Justine, I'm

755
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 3: so glad you've arrived. We've been expecting you. There's nothing

756
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 3: to be afraid of. This is your home now. So

757
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 3: she's very kind and helpful. But then again there are

758
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 3: more unsettling elements, like the interior of the convent and

759
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: the way all the nuns are dressed. You had something

760
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: about that, didn't you.

761
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean I think everybody who's ever watched

762
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: this movie has something about this, because, Yeah, the interiors

763
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 2: of the convent just straight up feel like a tomb.

764
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: In the best of cases, they feel like a nicely

765
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 2: like a tomb, or some somebody's at least open the window,

766
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: and in their worst well, well we'll get to that

767
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,760
Speaker 2: in a minute. But then, yeah, the way the nuns

768
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 2: are dressed, if you're expecting or picturing in your mind

769
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: sort of traditional stereotypical nuns habits, that is not what's

770
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 2: going on here. They are dressed in alarming habits that

771
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: really resemble mummy rappings more than anything. And these rappings

772
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 2: are like stained in places with what We're not sure

773
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: exactly blood, it would seem, but also maybe perspiration, you know,

774
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 2: are they stained with lust, suffering, you know, from intense emotion?

775
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 2: Perhaps all of this. So the nuns themselves are presented

776
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 2: as if entombed alive in a place, in this place,

777
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 2: while their outfits betray their organic nature and their mortal longings.

778
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the nuns are like bloody, muddy mummies.

779
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, strange, Yeah, there is a yeah, a foulness to

780
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: the way they're dressed.

781
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 4: Ye.

782
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: And and this is something, yeah that anytime you read

783
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 2: anything about a lakarda someone they always bring this up

784
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: because it is one of the most notable aspects of

785
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 2: it and one that you know, ultimately we were just

786
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 2: left to sort of puzzle and interpret.

787
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: Okay, what the nuns look like is they look like

788
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 3: mummies who are dressed, dressed in wrappings like mummies, but

789
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: also with like a kind of you know, dress habit thing.

790
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 3: And they all work in a meat processing plant and

791
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 3: they haven't changed their bandages in a month.

792
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I guess. And as we'll see. You know,

793
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 2: part of it may be that they they routinely have

794
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 2: to whip themselves for their mortal longings, and you know

795
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 2: that's going to stain through. It's hard to get that

796
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: out of your habits now.

797
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 3: In this sequence we also meet a few other major

798
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 3: characters we mentioned Justine and sister Angelica. There's also the

799
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 3: mother Superior sister Jermana, and the doctor Osek and his daughter. Again.

800
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 3: Doctor Otsek is played by Claudio Brooke, so he is

801
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 3: there picking up his daughter Daniella, who is blind and

802
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 3: we learn that she has been spending some time at

803
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 3: the convent over the summer. I think they've been helping

804
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: teach her how to do some things, and now she's

805
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: returning home with her father. Sister Angelica shows Justine to

806
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: her room, which is a small cell with a single

807
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 3: window to the outside, and there are two beds, each

808
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 3: with a cross on the wall over the head of

809
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: the bed. Sister Angelica tells Justine to get some rest

810
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: and that if she ever feels troubled or needs help,

811
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: just call upon her and she'll be there. So Sister Angela,

812
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 3: because she's sweet. But there's another bed in the room.

813
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 3: So is Justine going to have her roommate? Oh, yes,

814
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: she is. When she's left alone, Justine spends a moment

815
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 3: looking at a locket containing photos of her mother and father,

816
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 3: and then while she's admiring the photos, a figure blurs

817
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: into focus from behind her. It is a young woman

818
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 3: dressed all in black, with pale skin and long dark hair.

819
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 3: This is Alukarda. She startles Justine and then introduces herself,

820
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: and there's something notable about the velocity of interaction with Alukarda,

821
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: like there's no timidness at the beginning, she just launches

822
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: into relationship with Justine so fast, like they briefly bond

823
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 3: over the fact that they're both orphans. But then Alucarda

824
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 3: suddenly says, I have something to show you. So she

825
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: runs to retrieve some thing from under her bed and

826
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: she pulls something out, says, these are things I never

827
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: show to anybody. They're secrets, and every day I find

828
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,439
Speaker 3: a new secret. What is it? It's stuff, Like ali

829
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 3: Karta dumps out onto her bed a leather bag full

830
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: of stuff. It contains what looks like pebbles, pieces of

831
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 3: broken glass, flakes of metal, scraps of fabric, and just

832
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 3: other little bits of trash, and she explains that each

833
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 3: one of these objects is a secret. She says that

834
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 3: these objects come to her. She says, it comes to me,

835
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 3: and then she picks up one piece from this pile

836
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 3: and says, this, for instance, it means I like you.

837
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: And she puts the object in Justine's hand and then

838
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: closes Justine's fingers around it, and Justine smiles. Then Alukarta

839
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 3: says she'll show her another. So she holds out her

840
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 3: hand and she empties this like she uncorks a black

841
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 3: bottle and empties the black bottle onto her palm, and

842
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 3: it's something alive. It's full of little writhing caterpillars or

843
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 3: some other kind of insect.

844
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not not played for horror here, No, no, no.

845
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: She she pours them out on her hand and then

846
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 3: says this line that you identified, Rob. She says, do

847
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 3: you know how small creatures love each other? I'll show you.

848
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I love this line. And again it's

849
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: one of those where you just have to sort of

850
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 2: think about it and interpret it. But for me, anyway,

851
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, this feels like like like like peak innocence

852
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 2: in this film. So we in this, in this one line,

853
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: we we sense Alocarta's enthusiasm, you know, for for the

854
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 2: secrets of nature and wondrous things that exist on the

855
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: small scale. And perhaps, you know, reading into this and

856
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: thinking about what's to come in this film, maybe those

857
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: they're on such a small scale that they avoid the

858
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 2: attention of a larger world, of the adult world and

859
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 2: also supernatural forces. Like maybe small things are allowed to

860
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: love each other because they are too small for the

861
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: devil or for God to care about them.

862
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I like that reading I think that could

863
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 3: be what he's meant there. Yeah, the small things are

864
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 3: like they can they can avoid his gaze, you know,

865
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 3: they can that they can get away with just living

866
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 3: and loving as they want, as they want. Now, Alokarta says,

867
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: I'll show you. I'll take you to the garden, to

868
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 3: the woods. Everything is there, and she's just so intense,

869
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: so fast, and then suddenly we're we're out there in nature.

870
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: Alokarta and Justine are outside and Alocarta has picked up

871
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 3: a piece of moss and she's holding it up for

872
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 3: Justine to see, and on the moss are crawling two

873
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 3: bright red mites.

874
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess these are clover mites. And I like

875
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 2: their inclusion here because anytime I've ever encountered these little

876
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: guys or some related species and in the wild anyway,

877
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 2: it always does feel like a little special minor miracle.

878
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, so bright, so red. Justine's very she's I think,

879
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: she says, I've never seen these before. They're so interesting.

880
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 3: And then Alucarda says, it's one more secret. One is

881
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 3: identical to the other, like an image in a mirror,

882
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 3: like you and me. Then suddenly Halakarta is like more

883
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 3: more and mores, let's find more secrets, and they start

884
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: to run around in the woods, laughing madly, wrestling and

885
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 3: tumbling in the grass, and it seems perhaps their relationship

886
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 3: is already something more than friendship.

887
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 2: It's like moving so fast, right right, These two are

888
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: drawn to each other, and certainly Alokarta is drawn to Justine,

889
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 2: and now their trajectory cannot be stopped.

890
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, But their happiness is interrupted by the somber clang

891
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 3: of a funeral bell. They look down into the little

892
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 3: ravines slightly below them, and they see a procession of

893
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 3: figures in black carrying a coffin. It's a very creepy image,

894
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 3: by the way, in the way that it's framed, especially

895
00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 3: because it's in broad daylight in this green lush is

896
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 3: full of undergrowth. But these figures clad totally in black.

897
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 3: I think you can't even see their faces, and they're

898
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 3: carrying this coffin. So it's beautifully framed and unsettling. And

899
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 3: Alucarda explains to Justine that this funeral is for another

900
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 3: girl at the convent who died by suicide, and they

901
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 3: say the nuns will bury her in unhallowed ground, and

902
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 3: there's something sad about that. Justine says that funerals frighten her,

903
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,840
Speaker 3: but Alucarda does not seem afraid. She seems almost a

904
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 3: little bit defiant, maybe a little bit excited, and she says,

905
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 3: you have to die. Everyone has to die, but there

906
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 3: can be happiness beyond death. So Alucarda and Justine continue

907
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 3: running through the woods until they finally have an encounter

908
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 3: with the hunchback. This is the character also played by

909
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 3: Claudio Brooke, who's very goat like in appearance.

910
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is tremendous. It's such a contrast to the

911
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 2: other care very broad, jesturelike performance at times, lanky arms,

912
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 2: shuffling gait, speaking in an over the top accent, and

913
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 2: in multiple languages, goat like, facial hair, shaggy pants. Yeah,

914
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: the works.

915
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: I mean, he should almost say at the beginning, I

916
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 3: am known by many names. Like he sort of pops

917
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 3: up out of nowhere and startles them while they're running

918
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 3: around in the woods. And yeah, he's very goat like.

919
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 3: He's got these things dangling off him, that jingle when

920
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 3: he walks. I like that detail. As you said, he

921
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 3: speaks many languages, including I caught pieces of French and

922
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 3: of German and perhaps other things too, and when they

923
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: first meet this guy, they have different reactions. Justine is

924
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 3: frightened by him and she wants to run away, but

925
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 3: al Lukarta is like, no, I like this guy, and

926
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 3: she returns his smile and she convinces Justine that they

927
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 3: should follow him. She says he won't harm us, and

928
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 3: as the going along, he advertises all kinds of services.

929
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,240
Speaker 3: He tells them that he can let them know people's

930
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 3: secrets and he can sell them an amulet, which is

931
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 3: a charm against demons quote, which are running around these

932
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 3: running around like wolves in these woods. So I like

933
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 3: how it actually quite true to many different theologies and

934
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: religious traditions around the world. This is a demon offering

935
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 3: to protect them against demons.

936
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

937
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 3: So they followed the hunchback to his camp, where they

938
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 3: meet other people from his group, including a woman who

939
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 3: reads Justine's palm and tells her fortune, or at least

940
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 3: she tries to. After one look, she says, I see nothing,

941
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:45,840
Speaker 3: only shadows and darkness. And there's also some feuding between

942
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 3: the two different main people in the Romani group. Here,

943
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 3: the hunchback and the fortune teller insult each other's services.

944
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 3: Like the fortune teller says, he'll tell you only lies,

945
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 3: and the hunchback says the fortune teller, He's like, oh,

946
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 3: you know, what she sees in your palm is just

947
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: going to be her own dreams backwards, and the hunchback

948
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 3: tells Alucarda that he knows the secrets of alchemy and

949
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 3: he can transform dust into precious stones. And then he says,

950
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 3: either stones or souls, I couldn't tell which one, transform

951
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: those into never imagined dreams. Ooh, and he also offers

952
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,440
Speaker 3: Alucarta a magic knife and gives this very cryptic speech.

953
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 3: It was kind of hard for me to understand what

954
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: this connects to in the film, but I like the

955
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,440
Speaker 3: ambiguity there. He says, I see your dream clearly, your

956
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 3: past and future. You have come from the dew in

957
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 3: the forest, and there they will be waiting for you.

958
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: Who is they?

959
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 3: Strange creatures they are, and you must take care if

960
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: it obsesses the young lady, and I think it must.

961
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: Here I am, and here is my box of charms.

962
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 3: If the Ladyship wishes I shall make her free from

963
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 3: such a dream, then if the dream should come true,

964
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 3: I should be expecting her very cryptic, very yeah, I

965
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 3: mean very hard to paraphrase what he's actually saying there,

966
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 3: though at the same time it's almost like the subtextual

967
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 3: implications are very clear, and those are It's like he's

968
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 3: making her some kind of offer, but she's going to

969
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 3: owe him something in return. Now, Alukarta is shaken by this,

970
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 3: but by what unclear. So she and Justine run away

971
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 3: and they dash together through the forest until they come

972
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: to a ruined palace or castle of some kind, and

973
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 3: once again, Justine, this is a common kind of difference here.

974
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 3: Justine is frightened by this place and she wants to

975
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 3: go back home, but Alucarda is like, no, no, let's

976
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 3: go inside. She finds it beautiful and somehow very familiar,

977
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 3: as if she's been here before.

978
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the exterior here is so tremendous. It's like

979
00:55:55,560 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 2: a stone sculpturing, crusted edifice in disrepair, draped all over

980
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:05,000
Speaker 2: with lengths of blood stained colored cloths, you know, almost

981
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,919
Speaker 2: brown red, almost brown, you know. And inside, of course,

982
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 2: where you're gonna find dust, bones, cobwebs, ruins, and ultimately

983
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:17,919
Speaker 2: the viewer will recognize the very crypt where Elocarda was born.

984
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 3: Right, and this place is radioactive with magic. She says,

985
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 3: I can hear voices from the past. I feel as

986
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 3: if I've been here before. One can live eternally instead

987
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 3: of turning into a pile of dust? Are you afraid

988
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: of dying again? With Alokarta, these just the frantic, almost

989
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: kind of stream of consciousness feed the sudden subject changes

990
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 3: one sentence to another. They don't always seem to follow.

991
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:46,440
Speaker 3: But she asked Justine, are you afraid of dying? And

992
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: Justine says, yes, everyone is. But Alucarda says, I mean

993
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,719
Speaker 3: dying loving each other, dying together so we may live

994
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 3: as one forever, the same blood always flowing through our veins.

995
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 3: And then Alucarda caresses Justine's face and it turns more tender,

996
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 3: though it's a little it's a little bit threatening and

997
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 3: tender at the same time. Alucarda is so much, she says, Darling, Darling, Justine,

998
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 3: I live in you. Would you die for me? I

999
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 3: love you? So I've never been in love with anyone

1000
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 3: and never shall and let's unless it's with you. And

1001
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 3: Justine is I think she She reciprocates the feeling in

1002
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 3: a way, but she's also overwhelmed and afraid, and Alucarda says,

1003
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: the time is very near when you will love me

1004
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 3: as much as I love you. You may think me

1005
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 3: cruel and selfish, but love is always selfish. Don't you

1006
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 3: know how jealous I am? You must love me to death. Wow,

1007
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 3: it's great stuff. I mean, Justine is terrified, understandably, but

1008
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 3: Alucarta is in a state of ecstasy, and she's sort

1009
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 3: of floating around the room almost I mean not literally.

1010
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 3: There will there will be some of that in a bit,

1011
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 3: but she says she she remembers a time when she

1012
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 3: was wounded and nearly died, and then she just pivots

1013
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 3: right away from that. She says that Justine has to

1014
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: swear a pact with her that if we ever depart

1015
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 3: from this life, we shall do it together. And Justine agrees,

1016
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 3: but with passive phrasing, she says, all right, if this

1017
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 3: makes you happy, And then a Lukarta pulls out a knife,

1018
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: the magic knife, to draw blood with. But then she

1019
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 3: gets distracted and looks down at their feet and first says,

1020
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 3: look look at this coffin, and they see the name

1021
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 3: on the coffin. It is the name Lucy Wes westenra

1022
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: I think it is always is it Westerna or Westinra,

1023
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 3: whatever it is. That is the name of the character

1024
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 3: Lucy from the novel Dracula. The you know, Mina's friend Lucy,

1025
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 3: who is if you're not familiar with the story, she

1026
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 3: is the first person in England who goes through this

1027
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 3: gradual transformation into vampire thrall. You know, the Dracula visits

1028
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 3: her on subsequent on, you know, a series of nights,

1029
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:56,920
Speaker 3: and she gradually dies and then turns into a vampire.

1030
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 3: But this character Lucy, we don't get that in this

1031
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 3: movie at all. Is the name is the only reference.

1032
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 3: And so it's this coffin with Lucy Westenra written on it.

1033
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 3: They say she died years ago, and Alukarta has the idea,

1034
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: let's swear by her again. Justine is afraid, but Alucarta is.

1035
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 3: She can't be stopped. She's like a bulldozer. She just

1036
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 3: throws the coffin open and then they see this mold mummy, disgusting, sunken, flattened,

1037
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 3: gray mask of rotten death. And the moment the coffin

1038
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: is opened, it unleashes some kind of sonic attack. The otherworldly,

1039
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:42,120
Speaker 3: demonic rasping from the prologue comes back. Remember when Alukarta's

1040
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,920
Speaker 3: mother was laying on the pile of hay and there

1041
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 3: was the rasping from the statue. Now we hear the

1042
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 3: rasping again and it is affecting the characters. It seems

1043
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 3: to be causing immense stabbing, psychic pain in Alucarda and Justine,

1044
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 3: and they scream and they run away. Do you have

1045
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: a do you have a take on all this stuff

1046
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 3: that's just happened.

1047
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't have I don't have what what

1048
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 2: feels like a clear read on it. But I mean,

1049
01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 2: on one hand, it's like this they're occult bonding, got

1050
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 2: a little out of hand, and they maybe bit off

1051
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: a little more than they could chew. That's that's one interpretation.

1052
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 2: And then once actually presented with death in the form

1053
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 2: of this body, it is overwhelming or is it in

1054
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: fact psychically spiritually overwhelming? And this is also brought on

1055
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: by the various magical pacts that they are already dealing

1056
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 2: with here, but it does it is certainly a turning point.

1057
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 3: Yes, So the two of them go back to the

1058
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 3: convent and then the next big scene we get with

1059
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 3: them is a scene where I guess it's Sunday morning,

1060
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 3: and everybody's at chapel. They're they're sitting in the chapel

1061
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 3: for a church service. That's like the best sermon of

1062
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 3: all time in the best chapel of all time.

1063
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: Oh my God, Yes, the cryptlike heart of the con

1064
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 2: I guess where the death shrouded nuns gather to hear

1065
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 2: the tyrannical, threatening and domineering sermons of Father Lazaro. Here

1066
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 2: to remind you about that God is the one who

1067
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: can sends you to hell, that all your sins are

1068
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 2: going to wind you up in hell, and then the

1069
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,520
Speaker 2: devil wants to possess you body and soul.

1070
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, can I read part of the sermon? He says

1071
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 3: the devil this is the very first thing we hear.

1072
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: By the way, nothing leading into this. The devil uses

1073
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 3: the body of the person he wants to master. He

1074
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 3: uses the organs of that body for his own pleasure,

1075
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 3: for the performing of such feats far above the capacity, strength,

1076
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 3: or agility of the person thus possessed. So it's like

1077
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 3: a very I don't know, not like wisdom or values oriented.

1078
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 3: It's just like mechanically discussing the powers of the devil

1079
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,320
Speaker 3: and how he will use your Organs, yes, and then

1080
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 3: he's describing to them in exquisite detail how they are

1081
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 3: all going to burn in hell forever. The wrath of

1082
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 3: Satan has no mercy repent. And this does lead to

1083
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 3: just an outpouring of you know, crying out for God's mercy,

1084
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 3: people kind of screaming and jumping up in agony and

1085
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 3: terror and all that.

1086
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: And we already discussed the state of the nuns and

1087
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 2: their habits. But the chapel here too is just downright

1088
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,400
Speaker 2: oppressive and grotesque. So hundreds of partially melted candles line

1089
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 2: the altar beneath numerous effigies of the crucified Christ, effigies

1090
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 2: that dol Green in that book The Mexican The Mexican

1091
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: Cinema of Darkness, describes as having the air of an abatoir.

1092
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: And mean, it's like hung meat above the altar. For me,

1093
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: they brought to mind the sixteenth century Eisenheim altarpiece. This

1094
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 2: is the one that shows like the suffering of Christ,

1095
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: as if Christ is diseased. But these just, I mean,

1096
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: this is a different message entirely. It's as if this

1097
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 2: is a place where death in torment or worship just

1098
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,040
Speaker 2: a nightmare image here and perhaps one of the film's

1099
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 2: most direct visual message is a place of the Disney

1100
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 2: spirit where the flesh dies and rots.

1101
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 3: I think one of the things to really emphasize. You

1102
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 3: did mention this, but the multitude of crucifixes. So it's

1103
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 3: not a chapel with one big crucifix at the top.

1104
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 3: There's there are dozens of crucified Christ's all just hanging

1105
01:03:18,360 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 3: there in like a in rose almost. It's like stadium

1106
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 3: seating of crucifixes ap at the top of the above

1107
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 3: the altar. Yeah, yeah, and this is what you're talking

1108
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 3: about with that that abatoar feeling. It's like just you know,

1109
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 3: rows and rows of hung meat, but they're all crucified Jesus'.

1110
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, as if one sacrifice, one death was not enough,

1111
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: but it's instead endless sacrifices, endless deaths are necessary. So

1112
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: just just such an overbearing scene. Oh my goodness.

1113
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 3: So I mentioned that in the middle of the sermon,

1114
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,920
Speaker 3: it it becomes so terrifying and painful that the nuns

1115
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 3: and the girls of the orphanage are like screaming for

1116
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:59,480
Speaker 3: mercy and they're like no, no, no, I repent. And

1117
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 3: in the middle of all this frenzy, Justine passes out

1118
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 3: and falls unconscious on the floor. So she's unconscious and

1119
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 3: she has taken to her room to recover. Alucarda is

1120
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 3: left alone with her to watch over her good idea.

1121
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 3: So once the nuns have left the room, Alucarda says

1122
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 3: to her, monsters, monsters, they have done this to you,

1123
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 3: yet you did not tell our secret. I have heard

1124
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 3: the voices again, Justine, And then she describes how the

1125
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: voices of the past came to her again. It's this

1126
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 3: evocative description where they're coming out of the woods. They're

1127
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 3: in the branches, high in the tops of the trees,

1128
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 3: and the voices made everything clear to her. She says,

1129
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 3: there's no one left but you and me, Just you

1130
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 3: and me, Justine. We will make them pay bit by

1131
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 3: bit all that has been taken from us. And I'm

1132
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 3: wondering what this refers to here. I think you can

1133
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 3: make an argument that they certainly live in a generally

1134
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:02,040
Speaker 3: oppressive and repressive culture and situation. I mean, we just

1135
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 3: saw this terrifying sermon. But then again, they haven't like narratively,

1136
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 3: there hasn't been a specific thing that has been taken

1137
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 3: from them so far, unless there's something I'm forgetting.

1138
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless they're referring to things that have been taken

1139
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 2: from them in life, their parents and so forth, exactly. Yeah, yeah,

1140
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 2: But for the most part, like it's oppressive. As had

1141
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 2: a sequence in the chapel is it's like, oh, Justine

1142
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 2: passed out, take her to her the room and she

1143
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 2: can have a little time out there, like prop her

1144
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:28,479
Speaker 2: up and make her watch.

1145
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 3: Then alu Karta really gets going. She begins calling out

1146
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 3: these names of what are presumably demons. I didn't recognize

1147
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 3: a lot of the names, and they didn't show up

1148
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 3: in the subtitles I was watching. But one of the

1149
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 3: names she says is Astoroth, which I know is a

1150
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 3: classic one of the names that appears in these manuals

1151
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 3: of demonology. So she's calling out Astoroth, know, Secundus, whatever,

1152
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,200
Speaker 3: whatever all the names are, and she ends up spinning

1153
01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 3: around in a dizzy mania, screaming Satan, Satan, Satan, and

1154
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 3: she knocks Justine to the ground. So here, I guess

1155
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 3: we could pause and talk a bit about what is

1156
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 3: happening to Alukarda and different ways you could interpret this film.

1157
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 3: I guess at the top level you could ask is

1158
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 3: this like true demonic possession or could this be taken

1159
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 3: as hallucination and delusion. I know that tension is played

1160
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 3: with in some nunsploitation films or films that you know,

1161
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 3: have to do with religious mania in a you know,

1162
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 3: pre modern Catholic context. I really don't think that is

1163
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 3: an option we can debate in this film. It's just clear,

1164
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: especially through later events in the movie, that this is

1165
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 3: true demonic possession and the devil is real and the

1166
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 3: demons are getting.

1167
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 2: Y Yeah, or at least at the very least, the

1168
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 2: supernatural element is a reality.

1169
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1170
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 2: Like that seems to become clear as clear as anything

1171
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 2: is towards the end of this picture.

1172
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 3: But there is a second level of questions that we

1173
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,640
Speaker 3: can ask about it. If this is demonic possession, what

1174
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:18,160
Speaker 3: is causing it? It almost seems overdetermined, like there are

1175
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: too many different things you can point to being like, well,

1176
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 3: that is the cause. There's several things like was al

1177
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: U Karda born with some kind of demonic curse that

1178
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 3: is suggested by the prologue that something is hunting her

1179
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 3: the moment she's born, or did an entity attack her

1180
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 3: or make her vulnerable at a specific point, for a

1181
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 3: specific reason. We've almost got multiple scenes pointing to that

1182
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:44,560
Speaker 3: as well. For one thing, the curse seems to be

1183
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 3: linked to her love for Justine, like that, you know,

1184
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 3: they're being sort of demonically persecuted for their love for

1185
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 3: each other. That seems like a valid interpretation. The other

1186
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 3: thing is like, did she invite this by her interactions

1187
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 3: with the goat man and wanting the magic knife and

1188
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,200
Speaker 3: all that. Did they invite this when they opened the

1189
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:08,680
Speaker 3: coffin of Lucy and let out that rasp. It seems

1190
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 3: like maybe the answer to all these questions is yes,

1191
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 3: which is just more confusing.

1192
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the film isn't very It's like, this is not

1193
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: one of those films where Alocarda is eventually going to

1194
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: be like Alucarda is no more, there is only Zuol

1195
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 2: or something like you're even wondering to what extent she

1196
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 2: is truly possessed by some other force or is this

1197
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:32,320
Speaker 2: just pure Alucarda then, and then on top of that

1198
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:38,360
Speaker 2: questions of hallucination and delusion or supernatural reality. The film manages,

1199
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 2: you know, through its more surreal aspects, to kind of

1200
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 2: have it both ways, which I think is one of

1201
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:49,560
Speaker 2: its strengths. Doyle Green in his book comments on this.

1202
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:54,440
Speaker 2: He argues, quote, it's not that the subjective and objective

1203
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,560
Speaker 2: moments are ambiguous and therefore demand clarification, but rather that

1204
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 2: the scenes become subjective and objective at the same time,

1205
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,879
Speaker 2: and thus any clarification becomes impossible. And so he ultimately

1206
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 2: argues for like, just the pure evocative power of images

1207
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: in this film as being like really like the main feature.

1208
01:09:14,479 --> 01:09:17,400
Speaker 3: If I'm understanding him correctly, I agree with that. Then

1209
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 3: it's not that it is just one way and the

1210
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,160
Speaker 3: film does a poor job of explaining which way it is.

1211
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 3: It's more like it is being definitely indicated that it

1212
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,479
Speaker 3: is multiple ways at the same time.

1213
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to.

1214
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,439
Speaker 3: Expand on that, let me go back on something I

1215
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 3: said a minute ago. I think when you sort of

1216
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 3: contradicted me, you were right that it's not necessarily that

1217
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 3: it's definitely demon possession. But there are elements of the

1218
01:09:43,040 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 3: movie where if you take them at face value, it's

1219
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 3: definitely magic, but it's not. But like, where is the

1220
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:54,600
Speaker 3: magic coming from? You suggested there's there's the we have

1221
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 3: the demon interpretation, but you also suggested pure alu Karta

1222
01:09:58,160 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 3: and some things point to pure Alukarta.

1223
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, like eventually she's gonna make people burst into flames,

1224
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 2: as we've been alluding to. Is it hell fire working

1225
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 2: through her? Is she possessed by a demon? Or is

1226
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,519
Speaker 2: it more like and it's often compared to you know,

1227
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:13,600
Speaker 2: carry or something. Is this just like psychic powers of Alukarta?

1228
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 2: You know what's going on? We can't decide one way

1229
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:17,559
Speaker 2: or another.

1230
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where I agree. We get indications going

1231
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 3: in both directions. Now, one indication that it is external

1232
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 3: outside forces is something that's about to happen here, which

1233
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:31,599
Speaker 3: is the ritual scene. So right after Alukarta first seems

1234
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,000
Speaker 3: possessed or whatever it is and starts calling out the

1235
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 3: names of demons, we almost like ascend into another realm

1236
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 3: of reality where it's like you're in a dream sort of.

1237
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 3: The lights change on the scene, and now some of

1238
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 3: the walls in the room are gone, and the goat

1239
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 3: man comes in.

1240
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 2: Oh god, this moment where the goat man reappears right

1241
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 2: out of the shadows.

1242
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 3: Yes, amazing. So it's like we're as if we're in

1243
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 3: a dream, suddenly going straight out of this moment of

1244
01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:03,000
Speaker 3: what appears to be objective reality. The Hunchback appears. He

1245
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,560
Speaker 3: again offers the knife to Alucarda, the magic knife, and

1246
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 3: Alucarda says, we shall make a pact and we shall

1247
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 3: make them pay, and the Hunchback says, yes, we shall

1248
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:16,160
Speaker 3: make them pay. And the Hunchback then calls down rain

1249
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 3: and thunder from the sky, which appear on command, while

1250
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 3: Alucarda calls out again the names of the nine Kings

1251
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 3: of Hell. And now the thunder and the lightning are cracking.

1252
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 3: There is fog billowing all around, and suddenly Alucarda and

1253
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 3: Justine Nil facing one another, naked and entranced with evil magic.

1254
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,919
Speaker 3: And it's this, it's this blood bond they are creating

1255
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 3: with each other of love and violence, where they cut

1256
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 3: each other's skin, taste each other's blood, and then kiss

1257
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 3: with their blood mingled on their lips. And the Hunchback

1258
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 3: is presiding over this whole ritual like a priest of evil,

1259
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 3: and he says, you shall blend into one another and

1260
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 3: then blend into me. It's like infinite love, infinite satan.

1261
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, satanic marriage ritual really yeah yeah.

1262
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 3: And then from here the characters have already moved into

1263
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 3: this weird anti reality dream state, and they seem to

1264
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 3: progress even further out of the scene, out of the

1265
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 3: real basis of the scene, into some kind of cosmic

1266
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 3: meeting or union with a witch's coven, including the fortune

1267
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 3: teller from earlier, I believe, and it's her and all

1268
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 3: of these other people who we don't know who these

1269
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 3: people are, but they're these people naked in the forest,

1270
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 3: dancing in a circle with fires all around, praising the

1271
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 3: demons who give them power and liberty. And then finally

1272
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 3: a figure appears between Justine and Alukarta in full goat form,

1273
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 3: now no longer just a man who looks like a goat,

1274
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,840
Speaker 3: but just a goat head a bapphamet.

1275
01:12:54,439 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah and yeah. He moves among them, encourages them

1276
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 2: to kiss, and also encourages the orgiastic rights that begin

1277
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 2: to take place all around him on the grass.

1278
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 3: Some parts of this are staged in a very funny way,

1279
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 3: by the way, like all the witches are out there,

1280
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,679
Speaker 3: you know, getting busy, and the and the devil figure

1281
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,519
Speaker 3: is like, no that here, let me show you how

1282
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 3: I have sex.

1283
01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of like nuzzling their hair, like coming up,

1284
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 2: like musting their hair up a little bit.

1285
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, do that there. Yeah, yeah, but yeah,

1286
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 3: it seems to be a celebration of Satanic libertinism.

1287
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then at the same time we cut back

1288
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:37,639
Speaker 2: to Sister Angelica in her room.

1289
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 3: This was the thing that really like changed because you know,

1290
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,160
Speaker 3: we've seen movies with devil worship before, we've seen scenes

1291
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 3: kind of like this. This is the thing where it

1292
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 3: gets really different.

1293
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because Sister Angelica is back there and she in

1294
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 2: her room praying just fervently for Alokarda's soul. I believe

1295
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: it's Salikarda she's praying for specifically, maybe Justina's maybe just

1296
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I can't remember which girl, or if

1297
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 2: it's both girls she's praying for. But oh, she is

1298
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 2: praying so hard and also kind of imagining the sort

1299
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,560
Speaker 2: of things that they might be getting up to and

1300
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 2: to it. You could even interpret it as if she

1301
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 2: is imagining the black mass that is that we just

1302
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 2: saw and are seeing and are cut with this scene.

1303
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 2: And so she prays that God protects the protect them,

1304
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:26,640
Speaker 2: and prays so hard that blood begins to see I

1305
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:29,760
Speaker 2: think first from her nostril and or her eye, and

1306
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,519
Speaker 2: then it's eventually just blood is coming out through her

1307
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,120
Speaker 2: pores until finally she succeeds in convincing God. So it

1308
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:40,040
Speaker 2: would seem to strike one of the witches dead with

1309
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,479
Speaker 2: like a gory smite to the next so we don't

1310
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 2: see the hand of God, we don't see a thunderbolt.

1311
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 2: She's praying. She's praying, and then one of the witches

1312
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 2: is just the main witch, falls to the ground with

1313
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:53,720
Speaker 2: this bloody gash in her neck.

1314
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 4: Dead.

1315
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 3: She invokes a death curse from God.

1316
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 2: Yes, and then we cut back to her. She's levitating,

1317
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: just exuberant in her room with this like weird light

1318
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,719
Speaker 2: plane of light coming through the windows. Oh, it's so weird.

1319
01:15:10,479 --> 01:15:12,800
Speaker 2: And this is what Angelica has up to this point

1320
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 2: been one of our more you know, seemingly well meaning

1321
01:15:16,080 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 2: and relatable characters. She's the good nun, remember, yeah, yeah,

1322
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 2: And but here she has prayed with like such self

1323
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 2: destructive intensity, you know, killing a stranger out in the world,

1324
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,720
Speaker 2: but also like blood flowing out of her face to

1325
01:15:29,840 --> 01:15:33,599
Speaker 2: do so this one, this scene is amazing.

1326
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:36,719
Speaker 3: And that is the end of part one of the film.

1327
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 3: I guess you could say the end of the first act.

1328
01:15:39,600 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 3: And it transitions after this to the second part. Maybe

1329
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 3: we'll be a little bit more summary in our discussions

1330
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 3: from here on. But one of the big inciting incidents

1331
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 3: in the second act here is the scene in the

1332
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 3: school room where we have Justine and al Ukarda sitting

1333
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:58,400
Speaker 3: in the back, you know, they're sitting in the back

1334
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 3: so they can cut up during class being instructed about

1335
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 3: I don't remember what the lesson is, is something about

1336
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 3: you know, God is good, and the girls are whispering

1337
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 3: to each other, acting up, and the teacher is like, hey,

1338
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 3: now is it sister Germana who's teaching?

1339
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 2: I think so, yeah. Yeah.

1340
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 3: It's like, hey, now I see you acting up in class.

1341
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 3: Could you please stand up and repeat what I was

1342
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:24,080
Speaker 3: just saying? And so the is it Alucarda or Justine

1343
01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 3: who stands up? Maybe they both do, and they begin

1344
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 3: to recite what it first sounds like what the teacher

1345
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:35,320
Speaker 3: was saying, but instead turns into a speech on the

1346
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 3: virtues of Satan and the deficiencies of Christ.

1347
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 2: Yes, things get out of here fast. Yeah.

1348
01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 3: So the obviously the nuns are having none of that,

1349
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 3: and they dismiss class and they're like, okay, we got

1350
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 3: to deal with this problem. So they call in Father

1351
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 3: Lazarro to set things right. They're first going to have

1352
01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:01,200
Speaker 3: Alucarta go to confession with Father Lazarro and he like

1353
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 3: gets into the confession booth and she violently attacks him. Yeah,

1354
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:10,600
Speaker 3: and this eventually gives way to the flagellation scene that

1355
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 3: we were talking about earlier, where Father Lazarro and all

1356
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 3: the nuns are subjecting themselves to a good hard whipping

1357
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 3: while they're figuring out how to solve this problem. And

1358
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,600
Speaker 3: this was both horrifying and hilarious.

1359
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because we cut right to it. They've been

1360
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:29,679
Speaker 2: whipping on themselves for like an hour, bloody, back sweating. Yeah,

1361
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 2: it's it's gross and yeah and a little hilarious.

1362
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:34,360
Speaker 3: And there's a part in here where one of the

1363
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,800
Speaker 3: nuns explains that when Justine fell ill, because Justine again,

1364
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 3: she falls ill and has to take to bed after

1365
01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:45,679
Speaker 3: this outburst in the classroom, one of the nuns says

1366
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 3: that when Justine fell ill, she was complaining about being

1367
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 3: bothered by the light, and Father Lazarro says, that's it

1368
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:57,200
Speaker 3: a heliophobic demon, that's a sixth category devil who hates light.

1369
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 2: That was good, So now we have marching orders apparently,

1370
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,920
Speaker 2: though again this is the line that's also hilarious because

1371
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,200
Speaker 2: this isn't necessarily useful information. It's true at all, not

1372
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:08,639
Speaker 2: at all.

1373
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:11,280
Speaker 3: He says it's a nocturnal demon, and he says, we

1374
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 3: have to destroy the demon to save the girls. We

1375
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 3: must prepare an exorcism.

1376
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:21,599
Speaker 2: Yes, and as you might imagine, the exorcism is basically

1377
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 2: going to break down to just an awful exercise in

1378
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 2: torture where both of the girls are scrapped to to

1379
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 2: to cross type forms in the chapel. And during the

1380
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,720
Speaker 2: course of the exorcism, Justine is essentially murdered by the clergy.

1381
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,400
Speaker 3: Right, so they torture her to death in an attempt

1382
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 3: to get the devil out of her. And I would

1383
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,519
Speaker 3: say it is in this section of the movie where

1384
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, okay, so the clergy, the clerics, and

1385
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,840
Speaker 3: the clergy here are the villains of the film. This

1386
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 3: is sort of an anti clerical narrative about how whatever

1387
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:00,640
Speaker 3: happened with Justine and and el Ukarda early this is

1388
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,920
Speaker 3: clearly an overreaction by the clergy, where they are, you know,

1389
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:09,040
Speaker 3: making monsters out of something less than monsters and then

1390
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 3: creating you know, monstrous violence of their own. And that

1391
01:19:13,680 --> 01:19:17,080
Speaker 3: is also the opinion of doctor Otsek when he shows

1392
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 3: up in the middle of this torture exorcism and is like,

1393
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 3: in God's name, what are you doing? You know, this

1394
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 3: is madness, superstition, and he they just kind of tolerate him,

1395
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 3: like taking over the scene and being like, we have

1396
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:34,439
Speaker 3: to put a stop to this at once, like they're

1397
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 3: kind of like.

1398
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 2: Okay, well, it's almost it seems as if they some

1399
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 2: of the members of the clergy realize they've gone too far,

1400
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:42,760
Speaker 2: like yeah, which they should at this point. You have

1401
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:45,120
Speaker 2: you have murdered somebody, You've tortured a woman to death.

1402
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:49,600
Speaker 2: You have gone too far, and they're being called on it,

1403
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 2: and some of them aren't accepting that it has gotten

1404
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:52,439
Speaker 2: at hand.

1405
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:04,800
Speaker 3: So Alucarda is still alive. Justine has died, but he

1406
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 3: takes Alucarda back to his house, taking pity on her,

1407
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 3: and takes her back to his house and leaves her

1408
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 3: with his daughter who we met earlier, his blind daughter, Daniella.

1409
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 2: This is a point too where we get the I think,

1410
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:20,360
Speaker 2: where we get the doctor Elsik research Sayne where he

1411
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:22,720
Speaker 2: sits down in his study and he picks up a

1412
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,960
Speaker 2: single volume, opens it up we see the title of

1413
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:29,040
Speaker 2: the book is Satan. This is a book about Satan,

1414
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 2: and he basically like put opens it up, turns to

1415
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,559
Speaker 2: like one of the illustrations, some sort of satanic woodcut,

1416
01:20:36,640 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 2: you know, with some sort of outrageous demonic body, and

1417
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:43,400
Speaker 2: then that's just that's all it takes. He just slams

1418
01:20:43,439 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: the book and he's like preposterous, a.

1419
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 3: Bunch of nonsense. And he gives a speech later about

1420
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,560
Speaker 3: how he was educated in Paris to believe that this

1421
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 3: was all superstition and nonsense and that you know, we

1422
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 3: have we have to understand the world scientifically, not by

1423
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 3: believing in magic and demons. Right, So he has very

1424
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:06,439
Speaker 3: little tolerance for demonology. But unfortunately, so while Alukarta and

1425
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 3: Daniella are sort of getting to know one another, I

1426
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,320
Speaker 3: think Daniella is offering comfort to Alucarda. Uh, doctor Oseek

1427
01:21:13,439 --> 01:21:15,240
Speaker 3: is called back to the convent. He has to go

1428
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:18,920
Speaker 3: there again because Justine's body has disappeared.

1429
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 2: Uh oh that's right, yeah, what what has happened? We

1430
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:26,560
Speaker 2: have disappearing bodies and uh and then then it is

1431
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 2: just kind of discovered that what sister Jemana has been burned, yes,

1432
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 2: and they find her like hideously burned body that is

1433
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,880
Speaker 2: really gross. Yeah, really gross. They end up bringing that

1434
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 2: into the chapel and they basically there's this whole situation

1435
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 2: where sister Jamana's body is going to steadily come back

1436
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 2: to life as a zombie. They end up beheading it

1437
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,560
Speaker 2: on the altar with the sword.

1438
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:54,679
Speaker 3: Father Lazaro does. He well, it takes a lot of wax.

1439
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 3: He's just whacking it over and over and over and over.

1440
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,919
Speaker 3: It's like remember the episod we did on the guillotine

1441
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 3: with Jack Ketch, the executioner who could never do it right.

1442
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,640
Speaker 3: So he's whacking the neck again and again again. Eventually

1443
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,120
Speaker 3: the zombies head comes off and it's still sort of

1444
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 3: like chomping around on the ground, isn't it.

1445
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah, And also the arms are still moving.

1446
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 2: It's like just a grotesque spectacle.

1447
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:20,559
Speaker 3: And here is the scene I mentioned this earlier where

1448
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 3: doctor Otsek is like, wow, that was a real life zombie.

1449
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 3: I repent of my scientific materialism. I now understand that

1450
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 3: magic is real and the devil is real, and I

1451
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 3: am I am humbled.

1452
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is like, it's really interesting to try

1453
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:39,920
Speaker 2: and figure out how to interpret this within the context

1454
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 2: of this film, because I don't think this is a

1455
01:22:42,520 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 2: situation where Montezuma is ultimately trying to say, see, look,

1456
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 2: the so called you know, renaissance of people, the logical

1457
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:56,040
Speaker 2: scientists and so forth, the philosophers must must now realize

1458
01:22:56,479 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 2: the religious truth of the universe. But this kind of

1459
01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:02,360
Speaker 2: this feels like a track in many ways too, because

1460
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 2: this guy was our rock of logic and reason. He

1461
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 2: was supposed to be the Sherlock Holmes of the story exactly, Yes,

1462
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:10,639
Speaker 2: he was supposed to be the Sherlock Holmes of the story.

1463
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:13,759
Speaker 2: And now he's like, actually, I think it's black magic.

1464
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 2: And so, you know, he was our rock and now

1465
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: everything is perhaps tumbling into supernatural madness.

1466
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 3: But in the scene, he is also made aware that

1467
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 3: oh yeah, a Lukarta seems to be possessed by the devil,

1468
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 3: and he's like, oh no, I left her with my kid. Yes, yes,

1469
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 3: So he goes back to his house and they're they're gone,

1470
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 3: His daughter Daniella is gone, and so I think, is

1471
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 3: there anything in between here? Before they end up back

1472
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:44,760
Speaker 3: at the crypt or the abandoned palace where they had

1473
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 3: been before.

1474
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,760
Speaker 2: That's our main next destination. Yeah, that's our big set piece,

1475
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,120
Speaker 2: because yeah, we get back to the abandoned palace, back

1476
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:55,840
Speaker 2: to the casket, and this is when Justine comes back

1477
01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,679
Speaker 2: to life, rises from a casket that's full of blood

1478
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:00,560
Speaker 2: like a bathtub.

1479
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 3: Amazing.

1480
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, naked covered in blood. Now, now a vampire.

1481
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 2: This is, This is as close as we this is.

1482
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 2: This is a true vampire. Montezuma in interviews is often

1483
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 2: like very firm on the fact that al Karta is

1484
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 2: not a vampire, but that he often I've seen him

1485
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 2: stress that that she has the powers that are attributed

1486
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 2: to Dracula in Bromstoker's novel, but not blood drinking. So

1487
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 2: I don't know how to take all of that, but yeah,

1488
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 2: Justine definitely has come back as a vampire.

1489
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:36,639
Speaker 3: Well, she's at least got some bathory energy. She's bathing

1490
01:24:36,720 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 3: in blood and she bites is it the mother Superior?

1491
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,600
Speaker 3: One of the nuns she bites I think, oh Angelica,

1492
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 3: Oh okay, one of the nuns there there at the coffin,

1493
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,800
Speaker 3: and she attacks and Justine bites her on the neck

1494
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:53,160
Speaker 3: and I don't know if drinks her blood, but bites

1495
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 3: her on the neck and kills her.

1496
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she may have got a little in there,

1497
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 2: but she makes a mess.

1498
01:24:57,479 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 3: Now what ultimately happens to Justine? I recall this actually

1499
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 3: being one of the less impressive stagings. He's just kind

1500
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 3: of sloshing a bottle of holy water on her.

1501
01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 2: Doctor Zak is like, yeah, like this, like he has

1502
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,080
Speaker 2: multiple containers of holy water and heats throwing it at her.

1503
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:15,640
Speaker 2: But and so, but but then we do see she

1504
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 2: keeps getting these like big burn marks on her back

1505
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 2: from where the splashes are hitting her, like acid, and

1506
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 2: so it is also grotesque as well. And eventually this

1507
01:25:25,320 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 2: is just going to cause Justine to fall to the

1508
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 2: ground into cintegrade.

1509
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:32,799
Speaker 3: Now she melts. Yeah, but then the final confrontation actually

1510
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:37,120
Speaker 3: is with Alukarda. And does that happen here or back

1511
01:25:37,200 --> 01:25:38,800
Speaker 3: at the convent? I think maybe they go back to

1512
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:39,680
Speaker 3: the convent.

1513
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:42,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, definitely, our main, our final battle,

1514
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 2: our final showdown takes place in the convent itself with

1515
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 2: all of those those creepy Christ effigies. And yeah, this

1516
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 2: is where Alokarda goes into full carry mode, you know,

1517
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,240
Speaker 2: shouting the names of various demons, and when she does so,

1518
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 2: it causes various unks and nuns to just rrupt into fire,

1519
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 2: and we get these terrifying man on fire stunts that

1520
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 2: I discussed earlier, Like, I have no reason to believe

1521
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:12,760
Speaker 2: anything here wasn't completely safe, or at least I've never

1522
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:15,840
Speaker 2: read anything to the counter, but in general, even a

1523
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:19,720
Speaker 2: very well done man on stunt just horrifies me.

1524
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 4: These days.

1525
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:23,920
Speaker 2: It's just like, oh my god, it's just terrifying to

1526
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 2: watch these people on fire running around, falling to the ground,

1527
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 2: burning and burning and at times, you know, even kind

1528
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:32,360
Speaker 2: of throwing me out of the film viewing experience because

1529
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:34,599
Speaker 2: I'm like, we got to cut away. This scene has

1530
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:37,160
Speaker 2: to stop me. The guy on fire cut away, and

1531
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 2: then you put him out after the scene, after the

1532
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 2: shot is done. So horrifying stuff.

1533
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,559
Speaker 3: Yes, and a Lukarda, of course, is filled with rage.

1534
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 3: This is yet another scene where I guess it would

1535
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:53,560
Speaker 3: be worth asking what power is on display here? What

1536
01:26:53,760 --> 01:26:56,880
Speaker 3: power and what motivation are on display here? Are we

1537
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 3: seeing Alucarda's personal age and her personal power or is

1538
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 3: she possessed and is as we heard in the sermon earlier,

1539
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 3: the devil acting through her against his own enemies and

1540
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 3: acting with his own power.

1541
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:16,599
Speaker 2: Hmmm, you know, one way to potentially I didn't really

1542
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 2: think about this till now, but one way to think

1543
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:20,559
Speaker 2: about this film is what if there's only one power

1544
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 2: and it's working, both sides are using it. You know.

1545
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 2: It's like that, you know, almost as if the supernatural

1546
01:27:28,120 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 2: force itself is neutral, but it only takes on these

1547
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 2: forms as it's like channeled through human ambitions and human

1548
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:36,639
Speaker 2: religions and so forth.

1549
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 3: Like a conventional war, both sides can equally make use

1550
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 3: of the laws of physics, and here in this religious war,

1551
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:45,840
Speaker 3: both sides can equally make use of magic.

1552
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the magic that they used to counter her

1553
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 2: attempt to use to counter is basically bringing in the

1554
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 2: dead body of Sister Angelica and holding her up like

1555
01:27:56,560 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 2: a cross. Which this is, Yeah, this is I don't

1556
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:02,640
Speaker 2: think of ever seen this in a film where you know,

1557
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 2: we've seen plenty of examples of a cross or cris

1558
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 2: fix being utilized or some other holy item being used

1559
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 2: to shout down the adversary, but here they lift up

1560
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,000
Speaker 2: the dead body of Angelica and hold her up like

1561
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 2: a cross.

1562
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 3: Now, another good question based on this scene, why do

1563
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,960
Speaker 3: you think because that is ultimately how Alucarda is defeated.

1564
01:28:23,439 --> 01:28:25,720
Speaker 3: Why do you think it works. Is it like the

1565
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:31,040
Speaker 3: Holy Power destroys Alucarda or does that make Alucarda repent

1566
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:34,240
Speaker 3: of her violence and destroy herself or what.

1567
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:36,760
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's it's hard to figure out. I

1568
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 2: mean you could you could certainly make a case that

1569
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 2: Angelica was one of the people that was that was

1570
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 2: nice to her. I mean, she was nicer. We saw

1571
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 2: more of that between Angelica and Justine. Yes, So it's

1572
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:52,560
Speaker 2: not a perfect explanation. Or maybe it's this that you know,

1573
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:55,160
Speaker 2: Alocarta has just used up all of her rage, you know,

1574
01:28:55,720 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 2: and at that point, like it has, it has consumed

1575
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 2: her literally and literally turns her to dust.

1576
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,800
Speaker 3: And then of course at the end, strangely, I would

1577
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 3: have thought that Father Lazarro would be one of the

1578
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,920
Speaker 3: people who gets burned by Alikarda, but he, I think,

1579
01:29:11,000 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 3: survives this somehow. And then at the end we've got

1580
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:15,599
Speaker 3: kind of the doctor. We've got like science and religion

1581
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 3: just standing there side by side being like wow, that

1582
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 3: was something.

1583
01:29:19,479 --> 01:29:19,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1584
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:23,679
Speaker 2: But but but then the the chapel is on fire,

1585
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:27,639
Speaker 2: everything is just in flames, and you know, as Doyle

1586
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 2: Green points out that in that book, the Mexican cinema

1587
01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:35,200
Speaker 2: of darkness, like, it doesn't feel like a victory for anyone.

1588
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: At the end, you know, a La Carte is not victorious.

1589
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 2: It doesn't really feel like a victory of logic and reason.

1590
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:43,719
Speaker 2: It doesn't feel like a victory of the church and religion.

1591
01:29:45,040 --> 01:29:47,479
Speaker 2: He points out that in various other films, even you

1592
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 2: know films within the Mexican tradition, fire is used to

1593
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 2: secure victory, victory for science and reason in many cases

1594
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 2: over an obsolete and dangerous past. For instance, we see

1595
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:01,960
Speaker 2: this in the At the end, how do they defeat

1596
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 2: the brainiac, who himself is like an icon of a

1597
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:09,960
Speaker 2: troubling past in Mexico, They use flamethars, using fire against him,

1598
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:11,600
Speaker 2: and we see that sort of thing in plenty of

1599
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:15,439
Speaker 2: other horror movies. He writes in Alcarda, the triumph of

1600
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,639
Speaker 2: science or religion is turned on its head. The world

1601
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 2: in crisis, defined by the unreasonable, the unexplainable, and the unsolvable,

1602
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 2: is not salvaged by reason or faith. It is simply

1603
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:32,560
Speaker 2: and completely obliterated in flames. The apocalyptic collision of modernity

1604
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 2: and tradition in a perpetual dark age.

1605
01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:39,400
Speaker 3: Interesting, yeah to the extent that any edifice of authority

1606
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:41,560
Speaker 3: is victorious at the end of this film. It is

1607
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:45,600
Speaker 3: not vic It has not earned its victory. It is

1608
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:49,599
Speaker 3: not victorious because of its virtues. It's more just kind

1609
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:53,680
Speaker 3: of like, you know, there's this horrible consuming fire and

1610
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:55,639
Speaker 3: it eventually burns itself out.

1611
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, logic and reason are just kind of standing by

1612
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 2: mouth gate. And if religion is victorious, it is because

1613
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 2: it has it has achieved victory through the glorification of

1614
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:14,040
Speaker 2: death and suffering, like literally holding up the dead body

1615
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 2: and using it to to like channel its energy against

1616
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,360
Speaker 2: the adversary here. Yeah, and then we just we cut

1617
01:31:22,439 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 2: to credits and burning and that's the end of the movie.

1618
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 2: That's it.

1619
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:28,560
Speaker 3: Well, Rob, I think this was a good pick. I

1620
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 3: greatly enjoyed al Lukarda and I haven't seen anything quite

1621
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 3: like it before.

1622
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it really really stands out. So you know,

1623
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:38,680
Speaker 2: obviously not for everyone, though if you listen to this

1624
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:40,320
Speaker 2: then it wasn't for you. You know it by now.

1625
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:44,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, not not for everyone, but I think a

1626
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 2: very fascinating film and one one where you're really rewarded

1627
01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:52,840
Speaker 2: by rewatches as well. So we're gonna go ahead and

1628
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:55,240
Speaker 2: close it out here, but we'd love to hear from

1629
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:59,200
Speaker 2: everyone out there. If you have thoughts on Alocarda, some

1630
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:02,040
Speaker 2: of the other films we mentioned here, Mexican cinema, Mexican

1631
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:04,680
Speaker 2: horror cinema in general, write in we would love to

1632
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:07,280
Speaker 2: hear from you. A reminder that Stuff to Blow Your

1633
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,639
Speaker 2: Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, with core

1634
01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,840
Speaker 2: episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, but on Fridays we set

1635
01:32:12,880 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 2: aside most serious concerns to just talk about a weird

1636
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 2: film on Weird House Cinema. And if you want to

1637
01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:19,680
Speaker 2: see a list of all the movies we've covered over

1638
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:22,680
Speaker 2: the years, go to letterbox dot com. Our username there

1639
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 2: is weird House, and we got a nice list going.

1640
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:27,080
Speaker 2: You can see everything we've covered and sometimes a peek

1641
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:29,840
Speaker 2: ahead at what's coming next. And as we get into

1642
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:32,519
Speaker 2: October here, of course, that's going to mean a lot

1643
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:33,879
Speaker 2: of halloweeny choices.

1644
01:32:34,360 --> 01:32:38,360
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Jjposway.

1645
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:40,479
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1646
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

1647
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:45,080
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello,

1648
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,160
Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at Stuff to Blow

1649
01:32:48,200 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 3: Your Mind, dot.

1650
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:58,520
Speaker 1: Com Stuff to blow your mind is production of iHeartRadio.

1651
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1652
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,679
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.