1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Front office and filtered a lot to get to. This 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: ends up being a very busy week right before Thanksgiving, 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,079 Speaker 1: deals getting done. Jim Boden joining us right now or 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: resident GM here on foul Territory. What were your thoughts 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: on Marcus Simeon and Brandon Nimmo flipping teams? 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 2: What do you think? 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 3: So? 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 4: I like the trade for the Rangers side of it. 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 4: Let me kind of go through how I view the trade. 10 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 4: So from the Mets perspective, you know, we want to 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 4: improve the defense. Run prevention is what David Stearns continues 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 4: to talk about. Marcus Simeon does that. He's a really 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 4: good defensive second baseman. He's a gold glover. Putting him 14 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 4: with Linder up the middle, that's going to help the 15 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 4: pitching staff. 16 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 3: So I like that aspect of it. 17 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 4: What bothers me, and the other thing I love about him, 18 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 4: of course, is his makeup, his character. He's a team leader, 19 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 4: he's a great teammate, He's got all the intangibles we 20 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 4: look for right and star players. So that's what I 21 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 4: like about him. What concerns me a little bit in 22 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 4: watching him last year is agent the client is getting 23 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 4: to him. In my opinion, from what I've seen, and 24 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,639 Speaker 4: we've seen the home runs from twenty nine to twenty 25 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 4: three to fifteen. We've seen the on base go from 26 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: three forty eight three years ago to three. 27 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 3: Zero five this past year. 28 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 4: His bat speeds in the eighth percentile, his hard hit 29 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 4: rate in the seventeenth percentile. And although he had spurts 30 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 4: where it looked like, oh, Marcus is coming back, here 31 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 4: he comes, he had some stages at the end of 32 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 4: the year that they look like his old self. 33 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 3: That's normally what happens when a player gets older. You 34 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 3: get flashes, but you don't get consistency. 35 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 4: And it reminds me a lot when I was watching 36 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 4: Barry Larkin near the end of his career. I just 37 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 4: feel like three years at seventy two million is not 38 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 4: going to end well, especially from an offensive perspective. On 39 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 4: the other side, for Texas, this made a lot of sense, right, 40 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: they have to reduce payroll, so the non tender a 41 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 4: Doolas Garcia, they non tendered Jonah Hine. They trade Simeon 42 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 4: for Nimmo. Nimmo makes less money per year than Simeon does, 43 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 4: so financially it helps you want to repla Garcia's home runs. 44 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 4: Nimo does that twenty four, twenty three, and twenty five. 45 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 3: The last three years, you put him in. 46 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 4: Left field, you put Langford and right, Carter and center, 47 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 4: and you're you're. 48 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: Outfield is set. 49 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 4: The other thing it does it opens up second base 50 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: for Josh Smith, who deserves the opportunity to be an 51 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 4: everyday guy. And I think when you look at Nimo 52 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 4: the last couple of years, when they moved him down 53 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 4: in the lineup, his on base dropped from the three 54 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 4: fifties to the three twenties. I think Texas will hit 55 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 4: him at the near the top of the order. I 56 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 4: think you'll see the on base come back. And look, 57 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: his hard hit was in the eighty eight percentile. His 58 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 4: bat speed was just a tick above average. So I 59 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: think that Nimo being three years younger, I think that's 60 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 4: the better side of this deal. 61 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 3: At least that's my take. 62 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 5: I'm gonna go to the Simian side of this. If 63 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 5: you're New York, you're you're David Stearns and you picked 64 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 5: him up here, you saw it with Barry Larkin. 65 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: How do you. 66 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 5: Curve that that age decline? How do you make it? 67 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 5: Because he's a guy who absolutely wants to be out 68 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 5: there every single day. Is it playing time? Is it 69 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 5: amount of time that he's that he's out on the 70 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 5: field because he's one hundred and sixty two game guy, 71 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 5: if he is what he considers healthy, or do you say, 72 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 5: you know what, We're running it until it drops and 73 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 5: then we're going back to you know, Luis anghel Acunya, 74 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 5: we're going back to whatever we had before. If you're 75 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 5: the GM making this trade, yeah, I think if you're. 76 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 4: The GM making the trade, you think I'm wrong, and 77 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 4: you think he's not in decline and you think he's 78 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 4: going to be a comeback Player of the Year candidate. 79 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 4: Otherwise you don't make this trade now. To your point, 80 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 4: and I agree with it. You know, you get through 81 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 4: a certain age, back off a little bit instead of 82 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 4: playing one hundred and fifty one hundred and sixty games, 83 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 4: Let's let's dial it back to one hundred and thirty 84 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: five to one hundred and forty. 85 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: Let's try to keep the legs healthy. 86 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: Let's see if we can get a couple more years 87 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 4: out of you by taking care of your legs. 88 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: As you get older. So yeah, I think I think 89 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: there's the way to manage it. 90 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 4: But I think, if you're going to make this trade, 91 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 4: you're banking on the fact that you think he's going 92 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 4: to be fine. You like what you saw at the 93 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 4: end of the year, and you think that's what's gonna 94 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 4: be real rather than what we saw the entire season. 95 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 5: What you say, eighty eight percentile on hard hit average, 96 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 5: are you fearful of when he goes into Globe Life, 97 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 5: which became the least hit or friendly park in baseball 98 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 5: last year? Are you fearful that now, all of a sudden, 99 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 5: you have a guy who's gonna hit warning track home 100 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 5: runs and isn't playing better defense. But hey, you know what, 101 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 5: you save some money. 102 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, look, I don't know about the power 103 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: that's that Globe. 104 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 4: I feel has been different over the last several years, 105 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 4: so it's hard to calculate the ballpark factor with him. 106 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 3: But I think the thing I. 107 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 4: Like about Nimo is and I know the last couple 108 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: of years he hasn't been there. You know, he can 109 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 4: get on base. He's been a thirty five, thirty six 110 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 4: percent on base guy. I think he needs to get 111 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 4: back to drawing walks getting on base, going back to 112 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 4: the approach he had two or three years ago. 113 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: And then whether the power is the twenty four. 114 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 4: To twenty three twenty five we saw, or if it 115 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 4: goes down to eighteen to twenty two because of the ballpark, 116 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 4: that's still gonna be enough. 117 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: I think playing left field for them. 118 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 4: So again, you have to understand or at least a 119 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 4: big part of this to me is you got out 120 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 4: of seventy two million dollars that you were gonna have 121 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 4: to pay market simeon And if they view sibbyan like 122 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: I do, that's a that's a huge plus being able 123 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 4: to get out of that money right now. 124 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 1: Hey, for all the parents out there with teens, it's 125 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: more hectic now than ever. 126 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 5: Cash App's gonna help, not hurt. 127 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 1: With the cash App Card available to teens thirteen to 128 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: seventeen with sponsorship by an eligible parent or guardian, every 129 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: transaction triggers a real time notification for you to see, 130 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: empowering your team to practice independence while giving you peace 131 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: of mind by keeping track of their spending. 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Terms apply. 142 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: Cash app is a financial services platform, not a bank. 143 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: Banking services provided by cash apps bank partner, prepaid debit 144 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: cards issued by Sutton Bank member FDIC, direct deposit and 145 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: promotions provided by cash App, a block ink brand. Visit 146 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: cash Dot App Slash Legal Slash podcast. 147 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: For full disclosures. 148 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: JB last layer here, what do you think is next 149 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: for both sides? Where should the Mets be focusing and 150 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: where should the Rangers be focusing? I think we can 151 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: start with the Mets just because Krats and me agree 152 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: here that this team just really needs to have a 153 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: different strategy on pitching and not playing in the kiddie 154 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: pool as AJ calls it, like, is the solution here 155 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: to show up the defense? Certainly it helps, but that's 156 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,679 Speaker 1: not going to improve them doing these lottery ticket starter 157 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: signings every year. 158 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're not going to win with this rotation. You're 159 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 4: not going to make the playoffs with this rotation. So 160 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 4: that's where you got to focus. You got to get started, 161 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 4: and you got to get guys who can count on. 162 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 4: You know, you can't count on four and five inning starters, right. 163 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 4: You need some guys that can pitch deep. So you 164 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: should be playing on Framble Baal Days. You should be 165 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 4: playing on Dylan c. You should be playing on Michael King. 166 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 4: You should be trying to trade for Freddie Peralta. You 167 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 4: should try to see if you can match up with 168 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 4: Terrik Skuble. Yeah, you need to go big here, and 169 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: I don't think one starter does it. I think you 170 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 4: need to go get too and if you get two 171 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 4: with the young pitchers that are coming, that'll put you 172 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 4: in a much better position. The other thing is you 173 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 4: need more power if you're not going to bring Pete 174 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 4: Alonzo back. You know, if you want run prevention, go 175 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 4: get Michael Tucker or Kyle Tucker, or go get Cody Bellinger. 176 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: But I don't think you could let Alonzo go and 177 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 4: not replace the power because I think they would miss 178 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 4: that home run power that he provided. 179 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: Last year. 180 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 6: You brought up Freddie Peralta, a guy that everybody has 181 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 6: a target for. Where do you see this guy landing. 182 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 6: Is there a spot in mind you have right now 183 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 6: or it could be a crapshoot. 184 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 4: To be honest, Yeah, I got the spot in mind 185 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 4: for Paralta, and that's no. And let me kind of 186 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: go through the reasoning on why I think he stays 187 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 4: number one. They won more games in the regular season 188 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 4: than any team in baseball last year, including the world 189 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 4: champion Dodgers and the American League champion Blue Jays. They 190 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 4: got a chance to run back the exact same team 191 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 4: that did that. Why wouldn't you give your team one 192 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: more shot? Brandon Woodruff opted in on a qualifying offer. 193 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 4: You had Parolta, Jacob Mazarowski, Chad Patrick, I mean, Quinn Priester. 194 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 4: You got solid rotation there. If you trade Parolta, you're 195 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 4: not going to be as good a major league team. 196 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 4: The other thing that plays into it is he only 197 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 4: makes eight million dollars. 198 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: Wow. 199 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 4: I mean that's a bar that's a quarter of his 200 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 4: real value on the open market. 201 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 3: So I think you keep them. 202 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 4: I do, And I think you know the other thing 203 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 4: about Freddy Peralta is another guy big in the clubhouse, 204 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 4: can pitch in big games, And I think you also 205 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 4: look back at when's the last time that Arnold lose 206 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 4: one executive the year of the last two years. When 207 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 4: did he trade a pitcher that was going to be 208 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 4: a free agent? Well, that was Corbyn Burns he traded 209 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 4: at Baltimore. What was the return in that trade? Shortstop 210 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 4: Joey Ortiz left the end of pitcher dl Hall and. 211 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 3: A draft pick. 212 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,319 Speaker 4: Was that enough for one year of Burns? I mean, 213 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,719 Speaker 4: you say fifteen millions, that made sense. Ortiz has been 214 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 4: good defensively at short he hasn't hit enough. Paul has 215 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 4: been inconsistent and hurt the last two years. But you 216 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 4: can't look at that trade and say, yeah, I probably 217 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 4: would have rather had one year of Burns because that's 218 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 4: what I would rather have had back then. And so 219 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 4: I think I kind of look at Parolta going you 220 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 4: better win the trade, You better get pieces that can 221 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 4: really help you win. If not hold on to him 222 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 4: for eight million dollars, and if you lose him for 223 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 4: a pick, it's okay. You did it with a Damis, 224 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 4: It's okay. It's not the end of the world. But 225 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 4: after the season you had last year, let's not disappoint 226 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 4: the fans or the clubhouse. 227 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: Let's get to Ryan Helsley and how we could have 228 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: interest in him as a starting pitcher on the free 229 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: agent market. 230 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 2: What did you think of that story? 231 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: And do you think that he can convert to that 232 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: role like many others have done successfully over the last 233 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: few years. 234 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, no chance, Scott, not in the case of Ryan Helsley. 235 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 4: And look, it does work, right, a lot of times 236 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 4: you can take Michael King and put him in a 237 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 4: rotation and get success. Then a lot of times, like 238 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 4: the Giants, they tried to take Jordan Hicks was a 239 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 4: solid reliever make him a starter. 240 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 3: That didn't work. 241 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 4: The Mets took Clay Holmes they as a reliever and 242 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: tried to make him a starter. You know, it really 243 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 4: depends on what is your repertoire, what's your command and control? 244 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 4: How is your stamina? How long can you stay in? 245 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 4: You know, with Clay Holmes, it made sense right, he 246 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 4: had that change up. You know, he's got the sinker, 247 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 4: the sweeper, the change up, the slider, the cutter, the 248 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 4: four seamer. He's got enough pitches. He's big, he's strong, 249 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 4: he can have stamina. So when Carlos Bandoza saw him 250 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 4: with the Yankees, he understood and had the vision of yeah, 251 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: he could become. 252 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 3: A starter, although it takes a while before you build 253 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: up the innings. It takes a few years. But certainly 254 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: if that made a lot of sense. 255 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 4: In the case of Ryan Helsley, the reason why I 256 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 4: think this is going to be more like Jordan Hicks 257 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 4: or Norm Charlton and not working is ninety two percent 258 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 4: of his pitches last year were fastball. 259 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 3: Slider. That's it. Slider was his best pitch. 260 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 4: In fact, posing battles went fifteen fo one hundred and 261 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 4: seven against it, which equates to batting one forty. The 262 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 4: slider's nasty. They also hit four to twenty two against 263 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 4: his fastball. It got hit really hard. The velocity is 264 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 4: still there, but he didn't have the movement and didn't 265 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 4: have the placement needed to be successful. 266 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: So how's he going to. 267 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 4: Go around the lineup two or three times with a 268 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 4: slider like it? It just doesn't add up or make sense. 269 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 4: And I think you know, in history, Scott, we've seen 270 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 4: starters like Brad Keller go to the bullpen huge success. 271 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: Has now found a new niche for his career going forward. 272 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 4: But you really have to look at the full package 273 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 4: and say, where's the vision of this working? And when 274 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 4: I look at Ryan Helsley nine on two pitches and 275 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 4: only one of them effective, I don't know how that's 276 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 4: going to play out. 277 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: What do you think is the science to this for 278 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: a team like Detroit or others? When you're explaining how 279 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense from a repertoire perspective, do you 280 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: think they're like, Hey, we think that we're going to 281 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: be able to activate some other pitches that you either 282 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: don't have yet or that you don't use very frequently. 283 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: And they are pointing back to recent success stories like 284 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: play Homes and Rinaldo Lopez. 285 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to have a plan, right. If they're 286 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 4: looking at Hellsley and they're saying, hey, we think we 287 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 4: can develop. 288 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,599 Speaker 3: A split finger with him. We think we can change. 289 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 4: Is our mangle, get it down a little bit lower 290 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 4: to get the fastball to more effective. We can teach 291 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 4: him a circle change. We've seen it in the bullpen, 292 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 4: and we think if we add these it can work. 293 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 3: So sure. 294 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: I mean, I think one of the things that front 295 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 4: offices always does is you look at a player and say, 296 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: how can I make him better? How can I maximize 297 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 4: the talent he has. Is there a pathway where I 298 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 4: could take Ryan Helsley and make him into a starter effectively, 299 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,240 Speaker 4: which would be an inexpensive option to have success. And 300 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 4: so yeah, if you have plan, go make it work. 301 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 4: In Helsley's case in particular, I don't see that pathway. 302 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 4: In Holmes, I did because Carlos Mendoza was pretty clear 303 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 4: on some of the pitches he saw him throwing the 304 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 4: bullpen that he didn't throwing games that he felt would 305 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 4: be effective and he would turn into a good starter. 306 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 4: So again, it depends on the pitcher. But to your point, yeah, 307 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 4: obviously a team like Detroit must see something that they 308 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 4: feel with adjustments that he could do it. 309 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: If you are still carrying a clunky, leather brick that 310 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: can be mistaken for an old school wallet, may I 311 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: introduce you to what Eric Kratz is getting himself for 312 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: the holidays. 313 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 5: I mean, this is the greatest wallet that I've ever 314 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 5: seen in my life. Your credit card's fitting here, It's adjustable, 315 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 5: lifetime guaranteed, like what like? 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That's Ridge 326 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: dot Com slash foul for up to forty seven percent 327 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: off your order during their biggest sale of the year. 328 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: After your purchase, I'll ask you where you heard about Ridge. 329 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: Tell them Foul Territory sent you what. 330 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 5: The Rockies bringing back their manager. The Rocky's doing all 331 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 5: this and then all of a sudden, they're like, Okay, 332 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 5: we're just gonna stick with what we had since it 333 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 5: worked so well. 334 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. 335 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 4: So I mean, look, I think Paul de Potesta is 336 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 4: trying to get his feet wet. He's been out of 337 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 4: major league baseball for a decade working in the NFL, 338 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: and now he's coming over here. He doesn't know the 339 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 4: major league team, he doesn't know the farm system. The 340 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 4: former GM is not employed anymore, and so I think 341 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 4: he felt like, at least Warren Schaeffer knows the players 342 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 4: he's managed in the last four months of the season. 343 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 4: This will give me an opportunity to utilize his brain 344 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 4: and experience with the group that we have as he 345 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 4: tries to work to improve the team he has. And then, look, 346 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 4: this isn't a team that's going to contend in twenty 347 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 4: twenty six. He knows they're going to finish and last 348 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 4: they've already clinched that. So congrats to them. And so 349 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 4: that gives him a chance to evaluate Warren Schaeffer next 350 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 4: year to see if he's a long term answer, or 351 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 4: it gives him time to put his own person in. 352 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 4: But in the meantime, you got to have someone in 353 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 4: that organization familiar with what you have, and certainly Warren 354 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 4: has that. 355 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 5: Does this signify the fact that they that when he 356 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 5: has now taken over, he's looked under the hood that 357 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 5: there's a lot to do, that he's already underwater, and 358 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 5: he's like, I don't want to add something else where. 359 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 5: I'm trying to keep something or get somebody up to speed, 360 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 5: a new manager up to speed on something that I 361 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 5: can't even be up to speed on. 362 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and it's hard. 363 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 4: It's hard to It would be really hard to do that, 364 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 4: and especially in the case of Paul Devotes. 365 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: As I said, just because he's been. 366 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: Out of the game so long, he's not up to 367 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: date on the technology, the analytic advancements. He doesn't know 368 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 4: the players, he doesn't know the coaching staff. You know, 369 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 4: he's not familiar with any of them, and so it 370 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 4: would be really hard if he just walked in and 371 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 4: just cleaned everything out and tried to start fresh. 372 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 3: So I think this makes. 373 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 6: Sense talking about another ballplayer at Dolly Scarcia. Man, he struggled, 374 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 6: as we've seen, like nobody else, came off a nice 375 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 6: campaign with the World Series, and then all of a 376 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 6: sudden things kind of went south. Where do you see 377 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 6: him landing, if anywhere, as we're moving forward. 378 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, okay, the one thing he can still 379 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: do is an occasional homer right nineteen homers seventy five, 380 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 4: RBI seventeen steels last year, but is on Basemis two 381 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: seventy one. Not good last two years. He looks like, 382 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 4: you know, he's declining. We'll see if he can have 383 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 4: a bounce back year. There's not gonna be a lot 384 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 4: of interest in him. I remember, I mean, this is 385 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 4: a guy that made nine million last year, was expected 386 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 4: to make twelve million, and they see too much money 387 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: for the industry. Texas tried to trade him before they 388 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 4: non tendered him. There was zero interest. So you know, 389 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 4: I think he's gonna have to take a five million 390 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 4: dollar probably base salary with incentives, and I think he's 391 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,920 Speaker 4: gonna have to look for a team like the Pittsburgh Pirates, 392 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 4: who need to add offense. The Pirates have the starting pitching, 393 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 4: they've they've got a decent bullpen, they don't have enough offense. 394 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 3: They've got to add offense. 395 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 4: And so maybe Garcia goes to Pittsburgh and can you know, 396 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 4: prove to them that he's not done and try to 397 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 4: do some damage. There's not going to be a lot 398 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 4: of teams that have a starting spot for him, but 399 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 4: Pittsburgh might be one that can find an opening either 400 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 4: at DH or in the corner outfield. 401 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,639 Speaker 5: You said the words starting Grayson Rodriguez trade. It almost 402 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 5: looked like the Orioles gave up on this. What are 403 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 5: your not not just views of it, but how it 404 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 5: was handled by both sides? 405 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: Wow? 406 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 4: Okay, Eric, So first of all, my take is great 407 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 4: trade for the Angels. I want to be on that 408 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 4: side of things. 409 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 3: Now. 410 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 4: I haven't seen the medicals. I haven't seen the MRI. 411 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 4: I don't know what all the medical issues are with Grayson. 412 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: I do know one thing, before his injuries, he was 413 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 4: one of the best pitching prospects in baseball, with number one, 414 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 4: top of the rotation type stuff when he was healthy. 415 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 4: I also know you control him for four more years. 416 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: So let's just say, worst case scenario, the medicals say 417 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 4: that he's got a bone in the ligament of the 418 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 4: elbow and he might need Tommy John. 419 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 3: Okay, let's do Tommy John. 420 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 4: Let him sit out sixteen months and I'll bring him 421 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: back and still have two and a half to three 422 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 4: years of control of Grayson Rodriguez. Like, I don't understand 423 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 4: why you would trade Grayson Rodriguez as bad as you 424 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 4: need starting pitching, unless you've come to the conclusion because 425 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 4: of health you don't think you'll ever amount anything, which 426 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 4: I think is really premature with some of that age 427 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 4: with today's medical field. Now on the other side, with Ward, 428 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 4: you get word for one year, he's got great power. 429 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 4: I get it, driven one hundred and ten runs, I 430 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 4: get it and also hit two twenty. And you begin 431 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: to wonder, now when you look at all the Orioles 432 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 4: draft picks, and you look at all of the Orioles 433 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 4: trades at the big league level, it seems they're obsessed 434 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 4: with power over hitting. You know, whether you look at 435 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 4: Tyler O'Neil, or whether you look at Ward, or whether 436 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 4: you look at Kurstad or whether you look at Mountcastle, 437 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 4: there seems to be a theme vance Honeycutt the prospect. 438 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 4: There seems to be a theme that their obsession is 439 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 4: with power rather than hitters. 440 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 3: And you would think if. 441 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 4: You're in the American League East and you watch the 442 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 4: Blue Jays win ninety four games, you probably realize the 443 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 4: value of contact teams that can hit and play defense 444 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 4: and what that results is. So to me, it was 445 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 4: a perplexing deal. The trade Rodriguez for one year of 446 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 4: Taylor Ward just didn't make sense to me on the 447 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 4: Baltimore side. But for the Angels to take a chance 448 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 4: on Grayson Rodriguez, I loved it. 449 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 5: Do you have a chance, as Jim, to actually give 450 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 5: Grayson a physical by your doctors, by your team trainers, 451 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 5: And because I know during the trade deadline. During the 452 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 5: season you say, okay, I just got to read what 453 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 5: you have written. A trainer told me it's only you know, 454 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 5: we're just combing through things. But in the offseason, couldn't 455 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 5: they have given that. Couldn't they have said, hey, we 456 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 5: would love this, but we want to see if we 457 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 5: want to actually put him through a physical first. 458 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 4: Oh, eric on and he nailed it. I can't believe 459 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 4: that Paranassian didn't do it. I actually don't understand why 460 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 4: you wouldn't. You can make any deal that you make 461 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: contingent on a physical or you know, it's up to you. 462 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 4: It's up to the aseny club, the club receiving the player, 463 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 4: It's up to them to get as much medical information 464 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 4: as they want. Now, you're all going to get the 465 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 4: computer print out of all the medical reports, all the MRIs, 466 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 4: all the X rays, all the daily training reports. You're 467 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 4: going to have your orthopedic doctor talk to their orthopedic doctor. 468 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 4: They're all going to converge. But then you always have 469 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 4: the option and I did it quite a bit when 470 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 4: I was GM about the Reds and Nationals. You have 471 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 4: the ability to say, look, I'm going to do the 472 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 4: deal contingent on a physical, and then the player would 473 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 4: in for a physical and then you'd make a determination 474 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 4: after that. When you have the history that Grayson Rodriguez ads, 475 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 4: I cannot believe the Angels didn't insist doctor Neil Ella 476 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 4: Trash putting his hands on the pitcher before making the trade. 477 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 3: It just didn't make any sense to me. 478 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this part was important, and I like 479 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: that Eric asked the question, JB. I mention it because 480 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 1: there are a ton of people online who think that 481 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: they were former gms and they're like, that's not a thing. 482 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: You can't do that. You just get the records and 483 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: then you just have to make your decision. So I 484 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: just wanted to make sure, Yeah, let's double down again. 485 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: Can you ask for a physical? 486 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: Actually, the one other follow up I do have on this, 487 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: is there an opportunity for the player to say no? 488 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 2: Or does the player basically have to do it? 489 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: If you get a call and you say, hey, Grayce 490 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: and you're traded, it's contingent on a physical. 491 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,199 Speaker 2: I need you to do that. Can he say no? 492 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: Or because you know he's under control, he has to 493 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: do Okay, Yeah. 494 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: It's in the contracts. If the team asked them to 495 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 3: do a physical. He has to do the physical. So yeah, 496 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 3: it was surprising, you know, It's just it's something. 497 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: And by the way, a lot of times it's not 498 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 4: done at the trade deadline because a lot of times 499 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 4: the trades are made last minute, it's not time to 500 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 4: do it. But if you notice, there'll be a lot 501 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 4: of trades made ten days before the trade deadline with 502 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 4: some injured players where they do do the physicals prior 503 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 4: to announcing it. So you absolutely can make you make 504 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 4: contingent on signing the player to an extension if you 505 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 4: wanted to. 506 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 3: But it happens quite a bit. 507 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 4: It's not something teams like to make public, but it 508 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 4: definitely happens. 509 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 2: JB. 510 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: Last one for you, and it kind of brings this 511 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: fun segment full circle. 512 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: We did see two very. 513 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: Notable names in Major League baseball just get moved. I 514 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: love a good baseball player trade major league for major leagueer, 515 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: one for one kind of situation. Do you think that 516 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: any other big names like that could be moved on 517 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: the position player side that we're not thinking about. One 518 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: that I think we are thinking about a little bit 519 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: is ktel Marte. To get your thoughts, but maybe you 520 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: know Corey Seegers was floated in kind of like it 521 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: almost seemed like fake aggregating with Evan Grant's report. But 522 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: is there a chance that he could actually be moved 523 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: and the Rangers are looking to move and shake because 524 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: I looked up looks like he has a limited no 525 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: trade clause, not a full and that would activate at 526 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: some point I think this year with ten five rights. 527 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: So I think sometimes people don't consider that part of it. 528 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, And look, he can be traded to the Yankees 529 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 4: or Red Sox by the way, they're not on the 530 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 4: no trade clause. 531 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 3: And yeah, I definitely think so. 532 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 4: I think ti Oscar nandez In La could get traded 533 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 4: if they were able to sign say Kyle Tucker and 534 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 4: decided to move on from too So yeah, I think big, 535 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 4: big names will get moved. There's a lot of very 536 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 4: creative GM's out there right now, Scotty, So I think 537 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 4: it can happen. In terms of Seager. Yeah, they're going 538 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 4: to deny that, you know, they'll talk to him, but 539 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 4: they'll move the contract if they can. It's a huge contract. 540 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 4: He's thirty two years old. Texas has some financial issues 541 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: right now. I doubt he gets moved but look, the 542 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 4: Yankees have touch base with kateel Marte in Arizona and 543 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 4: Corey Seger in Texas, just like they are with Kyle 544 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 4: Tucker and Cody Bellinger. 545 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: I mean, the owner of House Steinberger came up instead. 546 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 3: It would be nice to say. 547 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 4: That our payroll's going down this year, but of course 548 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 4: it's not because we're gonna go and try to win 549 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 4: the championship. 550 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 3: So the Yankees are gonna spend money. 551 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 4: And so you know Brian Cashman, he checks on everybody 552 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 4: all the time. That doesn't mean anything's gonna happen, but 553 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 4: he makes sure that he does his homework before making 554 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 4: the final decision. So do I think there'll be some 555 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 4: other big names traded this offseason that we're not thinking about? 556 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely? 557 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 6: I do. 558 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: We hit this with Jim Bowden, but I want to 559 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: do this for a few minutes with our guys. Ryan 560 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: Helsley is a free agent. Is he a free agent 561 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: reliever or a free agent starting pitcher? According to the 562 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: Athletic Ken was in on this article, I believe in 563 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: and Cody staven Hagen among others. Here the Tigers are 564 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: among teams looking at him as a starting pitcher. This 565 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: is something that's now popped up for several years in 566 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: a row, guys, and we've seen success stories. I mean, 567 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: if you go a little further back, Seth Lugo's a 568 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: big success. Michael King More recently, Clay Holmes was good 569 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: for a while for the Mets last year. Wouldn't call 570 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: him part of the problems for the rotation. He definitely 571 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: faded down the stretch, But I think you have to 572 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: expect that when you're bringing a guy over who hasn't 573 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: put the innings together. Rinaldo Lopez was brilliant a couple 574 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: of years ago and then got hurt, so he missed 575 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: I think all of this past season with Atlanta. First, 576 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: let's talk Arsenal and then we can talk about the 577 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: building up component. Do you think Ryan Helsley Todd Father 578 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: can make this move. Jim Boden really was against it 579 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: in terms of this particular pitching profile because he's got 580 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 1: fastball slider. The other two pitches really haven't been developed yet. 581 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he throws hard, and he throws really hard, 582 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 6: and that's the factor as as a starter. Now, you 583 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 6: can't just go up there humping as hard as you want. 584 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 6: I mean, some guys can don't get me wrong, but 585 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 6: they've been doing it for a while. They've they've worked 586 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 6: their arms and bodies in those situations. For him, I 587 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 6: think it's gonna be hard just because of the two 588 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 6: pitches that he has. I mean, can can you rely 589 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 6: on those two pitches throughout a whole year every five days? 590 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 2: Or you know? 591 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 6: Do you he need an arsenal? Nowadays it's gonna tell 592 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: you need four to five pitches. At least some guys 593 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 6: have six to eight pitches. 594 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 595 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 6: I have to tend to go with Jim there and 596 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 6: say it's gonna be very hard. I don't think it's 597 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 6: the right decision, just on the sole fact how hard 598 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 6: he throws and how much effort he gives every time 599 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 6: he goes out there, it's gonna it might take a 600 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 6: toll on him. 601 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: Do you remember when they wanted Jeff Hoffman some of 602 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,719 Speaker 1: the teams last year in free agency to consider that, 603 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: And I don't remember was it him that said no? 604 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 5: No? 605 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 2: I think it was the teams that the teams didn't 606 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: want it. 607 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 5: So I thought the Braves, yeah, kind of failed him, 608 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 5: not the same way that the Orioles failed him. I 609 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 5: think the Braves were interested in that. But then when 610 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 5: he went to Toronto that I don't know if I 611 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 5: don't know if the Blue Jays cut that off or 612 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 5: if he was like all right, like well, we're just 613 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 5: gonna go closer. I mean, the difference is he has 614 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 5: four pitches now. Ultimately, Todd, you know, most big league pitchers, 615 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 5: you gotta look for two pitches. The issue is when 616 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 5: that third and fourth pitch comes in. Now you're like, well, 617 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 5: I'm just. 618 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: Gonna take that. 619 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 5: He you know, he throws a curveball whatever thirty seven 620 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 5: times a season in five hundred pitches, So you're like, okay, whatever. 621 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 5: If you see that as a starter, you have to 622 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 5: mix that up just because one, it allows you to 623 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 5: steal strikes. Two it gives them a different speed. And 624 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 5: I don't know that Hellsley has it. I tried to 625 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 5: look back at his minor league stats. He didn't that either. 626 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 5: Like it. It feels like a It feels like I 627 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 5: don't know, A you hogwashed twice feels like hogwash unless 628 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 5: there is something that we don't know. Oh, Like, I 629 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 5: don't know if teams can look at the guy and 630 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 5: be like, hey, because you're a we have so much 631 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 5: biomechanical information. Now because you're a pronator, because you're a supernator, 632 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 5: all that stuff. Hey, you know what, we can easily 633 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 5: teach you the kick change because a guy who throws 634 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 5: a fastball that cuts his hand can't really get around it. Hey, 635 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 5: you know what, We're just gonna put the ball in 636 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 5: your hand. Like, if you become a starter, there's always 637 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 5: more value. I was the one that in Mason Miller's 638 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 5: corner saying, go be a starter at the padres. That's 639 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 5: a huge value. Yes, try him out. What's the worst 640 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 5: that can happen? Go back to the bullpen? And I 641 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 5: I don't see it with Hellsley. But maybe it's something 642 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 5: from his camp because him going to a larger market 643 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 5: where the money's always going to be. When he got 644 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 5: traded to New York and it didn't go well, teams 645 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 5: are gonna be like was there something to that? What happened? 646 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 5: And maybe his camp's like, hey, he can start. But 647 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 5: I don't see it. I agree with Jim. 648 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 6: I think it's a respect factor though too that it 649 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 6: teem's like, you know what, I want to see this 650 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 6: guy as a starter, So if I'm him, I'm taking 651 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 6: that as an honor and like, hey, listen, okay, that's nice. 652 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 6: Maybe I'll take a second look at this team, whether 653 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 6: one mass start or not. 654 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: It's a crowded reliever market this year too, which is great. 655 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: It's fun for us to cover, but there's a lot 656 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: more competition than usual, and Hellsley really fell off with 657 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:25,479 Speaker 1: the Mets. 658 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 2: There was a lot of pitch. 659 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: Tipping whispering going on, but we don't know if that 660 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: ended up actually being the case. The Cardinals picked Selsey 661 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: as a starter at of school he went to was 662 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: at Northeastern State in Oklahoma. He was a fifth round pick, 663 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: but in the minor leagues all but eighteen of his 664 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: eighty seven appearances where as a starting pitcher, and then 665 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: the Cardinals bring them up, they make. 666 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 2: Them a reliever. 667 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: The rest is history. So it's not like he's never 668 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,239 Speaker 1: done it before at the pro level. And there are 669 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: others like that too. I mean, Jeff Hoffman actually was 670 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: a starter in the big leagues, right, Clay Holmes, I 671 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: think would did he start in the big leagues or 672 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: was it justice? He was a big league starter then 673 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: relief then back. Yeah, So for Hellsley, we haven't seen 674 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: the starting side of things. But it's not like it's 675 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: completely foreign for him. And that's usually the case, right, 676 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: They're like there's some track record of starting in the past, 677 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: whether it's in the pros or early on in his 678 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: major league career, and then he was just moved quickly 679 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: to being a reliever. 680 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's like there's decision. I mean, who creates 681 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 5: pictures really well in the minor leagues. It's for a while, 682 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 5: it's been to Cardinals, it was the Braves are the 683 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 5: best forever. I just feel like there's I mean, you 684 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 5: can say that about almost anybody. Hoffman started it. He 685 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 5: was a failed starter. A lot of relievers are failed starters. 686 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 5: Like if we're if we're going to do this, let's 687 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 5: go back everywhere, tod where did you play? Where did 688 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 5: you play when you were Little league? What position? 689 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: Wow? 690 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 5: Like you everybody was everybody was something to get to 691 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 5: where they were, Like everybody the Latinos are like boppy 692 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 5: everybody from the Dominican a short stop. Yeah, like yeah, 693 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 5: you were all shorts off because you're the best players. 694 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 5: It's the guys that make the transitions. And you have 695 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 5: to look at the profile, you have to look at 696 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 5: what he used and I was looking trying to look 697 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 5: at his eighteen minor league starts, and I couldn't see 698 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 5: any other pitches besides the slider. In the fastball, Yes, 699 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 5: it was a different shape. He has more horizontal, more 700 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 5: like a sweeper. Now, so maybe he said, oh, I 701 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 5: had a curveball and I had a slider. But there's prerequisites. 702 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 5: Clay Holmes was a failed starter with the Pirates. 703 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 2: Shocker, but. 704 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 5: So you're looking at those, you're looking at that. Ronaldo 705 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 5: Lopez was a big time starting pitching prospect. He came 706 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 5: up to the White Sox. They didn't need him, and 707 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 5: so it was more like, how do we have this 708 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 5: guy in the minor leagues who was dominating the minor leagues. 709 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 5: We're gonna put him in a bullpen. And the first 710 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 5: week he was ninety nine to one hundred, and he 711 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 5: kept all three of his pitches with he had a 712 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 5: bugs money change up. I faced him in Triple A, 713 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 5: I'm like, WHOA, this dude's legit. So there's so many 714 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 5: stories of that, but there has to be like a 715 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 5: few things that like, oh, this lines up, this lines up, 716 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 5: and I don't see that lining up with Helsley. 717 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: Well with Lopez too, I mean he was a starter 718 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: first in the big leagues with the White Sox, right right, 719 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: and then they moved him over like you made thirty 720 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: two starts in twenty eighteen, thirty three starts in twenty nineteen, 721 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: like he had full workload starting pitching life, then reliever, then. 722 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 5: Back and then what and what happened? What happened in 723 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 5: eighteen nineteen for the White Sox they were contending, right, 724 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 5: they couldn't use them, they could not. He was not 725 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 5: part of how he fit into their team as a starter. 726 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 5: And then you know, because they're like, hey, we could, 727 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 5: we can't. We can't let you continue to learn as 728 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 5: a starter in the big leagues. So there you go. 729 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 5: He had the he had the ability to start, he 730 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 5: had to learn it, and so they shifted him to 731 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 5: the bullpen. I don't see that with Helsley. 732 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: Do you think that this being a more new experiment 733 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: for teams could lead to more injuries for these guys. 734 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: Like this type of model. 735 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: If you're like, hey, you've been a reliever for a while, 736 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: now we're gonna build you back up as a starter. 737 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: There aren't a ton of great examples yet. Maybe I'm 738 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 1: reaching here, but Rinaldo Lopez obviously went through it. I mean, 739 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: he was brilliant and then he wasn't right. 740 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 5: It's all what side of the argument, Todd Well, while 741 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 5: I look something up, what side of the argument are 742 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 5: you on? Guys throw too much and that's why they 743 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 5: get hurt, or they throw too little and that's why 744 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 5: they get hurt, or they throw too hard. I guess 745 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 5: there's three sides, but to me, it's anyway, go ahead. 746 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: I think they need to throw more. That would be 747 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: my argument. 748 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, but is it difficult for these guys to 749 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: suddenly go from what they're doing to starting and then 750 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean Clay Holmes had a really nice beginning of 751 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: the season last year the Mets, and then he eventually. 752 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 6: Faded as well. You got to revamp your whole off season. 753 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 6: You gotta revamp how you throw, how you work out. 754 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 6: I'm not saying they can't do it. They're all professionals, 755 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 6: but you're putting your body in different scenarios, in different 756 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 6: situations where it's like, oh, okay, I haven't been there before. 757 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 6: I'm getting older too as well, so the body might 758 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 6: not keep up as much. So yeah, I think they 759 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 6: could do it for sure, but you know how many 760 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 6: guys have done that and been very successful. 761 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. 762 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 5: No, I was just gonna say, because it's new, teams 763 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 5: are like, what's the track record? 764 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 2: What does it say? 765 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 5: You know, because they're there, great. 766 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: If there's no track record on these things. 767 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239 Speaker 5: Right, well, but they also don't know how to how 768 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 5: to handle it. So Renaldo Lopez went from I mean 769 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 5: he went to a world tour in twenty three he threw. 770 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 5: He threw sixty six innings as a reliever in sixty 771 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,439 Speaker 5: eight appearances. Okay, so one inning of time he made 772 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 5: twenty six twenty five starts, one hundred and thirty five innings. 773 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 5: Are team's going to say, well, it's because he pitched 774 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 5: too much, that's why he faded at the end. He's 775 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 5: still at a one ninety nine era. Everybody will tell 776 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 5: you that when you make it to the big leagues 777 00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 5: position players or or pitchers, you have a larger workload. 778 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 5: Even if you're in the minor leagues forever, your workload 779 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 5: is so much different. It used to be one hundred 780 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 5: and forty four games in the minor leagues. You play 781 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 5: one hundred and sixty two. You play a whole nother month. 782 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 5: How do you train for that? To me, it's not 783 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 5: just a willy nilly, Hey we're signing this free agent. 784 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 5: Oh it's November. Hey, go ahead and ramp it up. 785 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 5: We're gonna make you a starter. Especially if you say, 786 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 5: wait a minute, you used to throw ninety nine miles 787 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 5: an hour. Why are you throwing ninety six? Like That's 788 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 5: where I think pitchers teams have to line up and say, 789 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 5: you know what, I have to be able to not 790 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 5: throw as hard as I possibly can. For Renaldo Lopez 791 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 5: twenty six starts, but that was a successful campaign. I'm 792 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 5: not saying it wasn't except at what cost? Because you 793 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 5: go down to twenty twenty five and he had one start. 794 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 5: That's not successful. To get twenty six starts in two 795 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 5: seasons from a guy, that's not a successful transition, even 796 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 5: though he was an All star, even though he was 797 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 5: number eleven in the cy Young Award voting. 798 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 2: Well, that's the question. 799 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 1: Do you look at the two years of body of 800 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: work and say, hey, he was worth that because in 801 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: year one of the deal, I mean he's making what twelve, teneen, ten, whatever? 802 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah for a starter like that, I mean he pitched 803 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: like a one for a good chunk of the season. 804 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: So some team like, okay, it was worth the sacrifice there, 805 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: and we didn't know when to kind of start to 806 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: ease back because he had done significant innings in the past, 807 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 1: just not recently. 808 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 2: I don't know. 809 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: I just it's an interesting science experiment for teams. If 810 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: you're going to lay that plan out, how do you 811 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,399 Speaker 1: keep the pitcher healthy and how do you keep them 812 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: effective down the stretch. That's the other important part, right 813 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,479 Speaker 1: if you're a playoff team, It's great that this guy's 814 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 1: suddenly starting, but is he going to be good in August, September, 815 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: October or is he going to fade? 816 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 5: And are you that good that you're like, we're banking 817 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 5: on him fading. So we're going to what put him 818 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,920 Speaker 5: on the phanom I l No chance you're putting an 819 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 5: all star starter on the phanomi l Oh, Well. 820 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 2: You could back to the bullpen, back. 821 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 5: To the bullpen, and then he's not but he's still throwing. 822 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 5: Now he's got to come out and throw, you know, 823 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 5: one inning sprints. It's it's a hard thing to put 824 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 5: into your season if you're a contending team. This is 825 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,399 Speaker 5: more to me, it's more of an experiment that non 826 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 5: contending teams can do, and players can just revamp their 827 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 5: whole their whole stick and get tons of value for 828 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 5: the next year. It's just so hard to navigate unless 829 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 5: you build your roster in rotation like the Dodgers did, 830 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 5: where you're like, we're expecting twenty to twenty five starts 831 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 5: out of all of our guys. Somehow you got to 832 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 5: find one hundred and sixty starts. You're gonna have your 833 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 5: two openers and one hundred and sixty starts? Is that 834 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 5: from seven guys? Is that from five guys? Five guys 835 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 5: gonna be tough? For five guys and a thirty two starts? 836 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 5: It never happens, And not when you're going after these guys. 837 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 2: Yep, Okay, good stuff, good good topic. 838 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: And we'll see if there are more teams than emerge 839 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: like Detroit that are interested like that. Detroit's obviously got 840 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 1: these big boys, including Krek's Google at the top of 841 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: the rotation. 842 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 2: But we'll see, you'll see what happens.