1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hi, it's Elvis Duran on my new podcast, 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: Thinking out Loud with Elvis Duran. I'll be bringing you 21 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: candid and maybe sometimes a little crazy interviews with people 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: from all walks of life. We'll touch on subjects that 23 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: you just can't talk about on the radio, like life, love, success, failure, 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 1: or whatever else comes to mind. But all jacked up 25 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: because after being in this business for as long as 26 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: I have, I want to get to the bottom of 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 1: what makes people tick. And listen to my new podcast, 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Thinking out Loud on the iHeartRadio, Apple, Apple podcasts or 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. So how does the half American, 30 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: half Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans. There's absolutely no 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: journalism experience, right the biggest story of the eighties, That's 32 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: what journalista is all about. I'm a woman, wife beater 33 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: or T shirt, not wearing a brawl curses like a sailor. 34 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: I got balls bigger than any man. Dan Rathie used 35 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: to call me his secret weapon. Listen to Journalist to 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts or wherever 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. George Wagner the Fourth was trying 38 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: to keep a testimony of family members who have already 39 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: confessed out of his trial. His lawyers argued Tuesday that 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: his brother Jake and his mother Angela should not be 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: allowed to testify against him. Defense lawyer John Parker argued 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: that such an agreement violates due process. In the end 43 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: Circuit Court Judge Randy Deering ruled against the defense motion, 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: meaning that both Jake and Angela can testify and that 45 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: their confessions can be used in court. Welcome to the 46 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: Pike and Massacre, a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio, 47 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:58,959 Speaker 1: Season three, Episode six, Trial and Error. I'm Courtney, I'm Shong, 48 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,399 Speaker 1: a television producer. Are at kat Studios with Stephanie Lydecker 49 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: and Jeff Shane. We're breaking down the court proceedings against 50 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: the Wagners as they currently stand, as well as looking 51 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: into information on the courtroom players. The test is, can 52 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: you get twelve people from Pike County that can be 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: fair and impartial and give that mister Wagner, give the 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: state of Ohio fair trial. On January nineteenth, twenty twenty two, 55 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 1: George Wagner's attorneys filed emotion for a change of venue. 56 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: They basically outline the reasons why they believe a fair 57 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: and impartial jury cannot be seated in Pike County. They 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: say they will be providing the court with evidence of 59 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: this just prejudicial negative pre trial publicity. I mean there 60 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: are people who are scared as Wagners too, So you 61 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: may find people who are like, I am not doing this. 62 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: Death penalty cases are hard, and I think they're meant 63 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: to be hard, to be honest, because there's a lot 64 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: at stake in Ohio. Just knowing about it, or being present, 65 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: or driving the getaway car or being a part of 66 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: this conspiracy in Ohio, you're just as guilty, George. The 67 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: forst case is set to go to trial, and that 68 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: is even if they can find a jury in time, 69 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: because in Ohio, when you're selecting a jury, you have 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: to pick a jury in the venue in which the 71 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: crime happened. As a reminder, at this point, the Wagner family, 72 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: one seemingly tight knit, are fully unraveling. Jake Wagner was 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: the first Domino to fall, pleading guilty to murdering five 74 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: of the a Rodents in exchange for testifying against his 75 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: family matriarch Angelo Wagner folded next, pleading guilty to conspiracy 76 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: to commit aggravated murder and other charges as part of 77 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: her plea deal. Here's reporter Anette Levy. Angelo Wagner pleaded guilty. 78 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: She admitted to her role in the planning of these homicides, 79 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: and she could get out after serving thirty years. That's 80 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: not a given, but she's eligible for release after serving 81 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: thirty years. She admitted to basically helping plan all of 82 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 1: this and carry it out. That she did not go 83 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: to the scenes of the murders that night. That leaves 84 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: two remaining suspects, father Billy Wagner and his thirty year 85 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: old son George Wagner, both have pled not guilty and 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: are awaiting trials. In some of these hearings all of 87 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 1: four defendants. Each defendant was made an offer by the 88 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: state to cooperate, so Jake and Angela took that offer, 89 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: and it appears that George the fourth and Billy did not. 90 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we are right now. Antonette 91 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: theorizes that there's little chance for a plea deal for 92 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: George and his father at this stage, after four years 93 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: of steadfastly denying any involvement in the slayings. I would 94 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: think the only incentive for either one of them to 95 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: plead would be to go to the state and say Okay, 96 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: I'll plead guilty. Just take the death kind of the 97 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: off the table. I don't see why the state would 98 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: offer them any reduced time, especially if you've got two 99 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 1: other family members who are willing to testify against them. 100 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: Jake pleaded guilty and he's going to present for the 101 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: rest of his life. The only way he's leaving there 102 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: is in a box, and he knows that. So there 103 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: would be no reason that the state, in my opinion, 104 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: would make any other offer to Billy or George. The 105 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: State of Ohio was represented by prousecuting Attorney Robert johnk 106 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: also by special prosecuting a Journey to Angela Kaneppa and JIW. 107 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: Kaneppa has been a special prosecutor on this case. From 108 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,679 Speaker 1: the outset. We've heard a lot from a Jaw Kaneppa 109 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: in the courtroom this season, but didn't know much about her. 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Here's former prosecutor Anne Flanagan, followed by Stephanie and Jeff 111 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: well If. She seems very calm, and it's a nerve 112 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: racking experience because there's so much you have to stay 113 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: on top of, and it seems like they're depending on 114 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: her quite a bit. But she doesn't seem rattled by it. 115 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: She seems very self possessed and focused. And I think 116 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: in my mind when I've handled cases and I often 117 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: had children as victims or others, I know that I 118 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: am working fighting for that victim and for that family, 119 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: and that helps me put it aside any of my 120 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: own nervousness or edginess. Not that it won't be there, 121 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: but it helps me put it in the right place. 122 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: So here's what we know about Angie Kaneppa. She's the 123 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: special prosecutor. We know that she studied undergrad at Bowling 124 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: Green State University. She also went to law school at 125 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: Ohio State. Started practicing law in nineteen ninety, and she 126 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: worked for the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office in Columbus for 127 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: over twenty years before going to the Ohio Attorney General's 128 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: Office in twenty thirteen. In May of twenty twenty, she 129 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,559 Speaker 1: raised eyebrows when she resigned from the Attorney General's office 130 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: with a one sentence letter that read, effective June twentieth, 131 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, I hereby resign my position as Section Chiefs 132 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: within the Special Prosecution Section of the Ohio Attorney General's Office. 133 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: Now when asked for a comment about the sudden and 134 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: sort of kurt departure, a spokesperson for the office referred 135 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: the press back to Kneppa. That would, just to me 136 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: imply that they didn't want to deal with it, and 137 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: they were washing their hands clean of her and her 138 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: relationship with the office. That's interesting that she resigned mid trial. 139 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: You know, they were in the thick of it in 140 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: June of twenty twenty, and these trials were ongoing and 141 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: just really about to heat up. So for her to 142 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: to be heart and then come back as a special 143 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: prosecutor is interesting. I mean when it happened, people and 144 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: pikedon were like, are the trials falling apart? Is everything folding? 145 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: Is this going away? It brought a lot of uncertainty 146 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: to the case, at least for the public. However, it 147 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: couldn't have been all bad blood because just a few 148 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: weeks after this resignation, Kneppa was brought back on the 149 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: case as a special prosecutor at the rate of sixty 150 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: five dollars an hour. That's actually around double the average 151 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: of a prosecutors salary in Ohio, who usually make around 152 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: thirty three dollars an hour, and to sort of add 153 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: perspective to that. You know, defense attorneys can make six 154 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: hundred dollars an hour, if not more sometimes so to 155 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: work for the state as an attorney, you're definitely not 156 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: in it for the money. Each Wagner trial was expected 157 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: to cost a million dollars for the state. That's actually 158 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 1: a bit lower than the national average, which is about 159 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: one point three million per case. In talking to a 160 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: lot of Piked and locals, people in Pike County particularly 161 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: are kind of frustrated and fed up with how long 162 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: these cases are taking because they feel that it's taxpayer 163 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 1: dollars that are being spent. You've got to keep in mind, though, 164 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: this is for capital murder trials. At one point, those 165 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: do take time. The wheels of justice sometimes can move slowly, 166 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: and perhaps for good reason. Rob Junk is an important 167 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: figure in Pike County and plays a very large role 168 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: in the prosecution of the four Wagners. At age fifty five, 169 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: Rob Junk has been practicing law since nineteen ninety one, 170 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: after completing his undergrad at Case Western Reserve University. He 171 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: also went to law school at Cincinnati College of Law. 172 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: He's been prosecuting attorney in Pike County since being elected 173 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six, and most recently, he actually ran 174 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: to become the Pike County Commons Plea judge, an election 175 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: that he won, and he's due to actually take office 176 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three at some point. It's pretty unclear 177 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,719 Speaker 1: at the moment how this shift in his position will 178 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: affect the Wagner cases, but as part of his campaign 179 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: he vowed to fairly and impartially enforce and apply the law. 180 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,599 Speaker 1: So Aside from working the routing cases and winning elections, 181 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: Junk is also involved in a pretty public feud with 182 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: former Pike County Ship of Charles Reader, who we all 183 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: know has come under some scrutiny for illegal activities that 184 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: he's partaken in. It all started in November twenty eighteen, 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: when there was an anonymous complaint filed against Reader, just 186 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: days before the Wagoners were arrested. The complaint read Reader 187 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: just does whatever he wants and no one ever calls 188 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: him on it. We are scared to death of him. 189 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: He is unstable and threatens people. In May of twenty nineteen, 190 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: Junk asked Reader to step down from any criminal investigations. 191 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: Reader fired back in a public and sunse deleted Facebook 192 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: post that read put your seatbelt on, buddy. No one 193 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: else may stand up to you and your crooked as connections, 194 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: but I will so help me God. At one point, 195 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: reader wrote another post saying it's past time to clean 196 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 1: the junk out of Pike County. Rob Junk responded also 197 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: on Facebook, surmising that the request to recuse himself from 198 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: investigations caused the outburst. He wrote again on Facebook, apparently 199 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: makes me a serpent hiding in the shadows because I 200 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: and my office are following the law. So these are 201 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: two publicly elected officials fighting on Facebook. It's a pretty 202 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: big deal to have a very public dispute like this 203 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: between the prosecutor and also the sheriff, who was in 204 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: office when these murders happened and is currently doing time 205 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: for allegedly taking bribes. It could be seen as a 206 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: very messy feud being played out publicly. While George Wagner's 207 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: defense team staunchly defends his innocence, the prosecution's theory is 208 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: that George had his hand in the murders as much 209 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: as anyone else. Veteran Ohio prosecutor and Flanagan elaborates on this. 210 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: When you hear these people bolstering each other and actually 211 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: sharing ideas and dynamics. They're just as much a part 212 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: of all that ended up happening as the person who 213 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: actually pulled the trigger. And I know that, and I 214 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,680 Speaker 1: think jurors know that, and people know that, But will 215 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: they really hold them accountable. We know that people in 216 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: a mob act differently than people individually. If people in 217 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: that mob step back and don't participate and step away 218 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: from it, it may not happen. And what a difference 219 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: that would have made in the lives of the Rodents. 220 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: Jake and his testimony said his brother was at the 221 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: crime scene but didn't shoot anyone. Here's pretty, Sir, Chris Graves. 222 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: The information she's referencing is taken directly from Motion eighty. 223 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: Jake's own conduct and the murders has been corroborated by 224 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: his disclosure murder weapons. It is also true that the 225 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: truck allegedly used by Jake and Billy in the murders 226 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: has been recovered as a result of his proffer, but 227 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 1: Jake has stated clearly that George did not shoot new 228 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: One did not fire a shot was not supposed to 229 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: go with Jake and Billy on the murder spree and 230 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: only went as a last second to protect Jake from Billy, 231 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: who was thought he might kill Jake at the end 232 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: of the series of accredated murders, presumably to get rid 233 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: of a witness. In the state of Ohio, planning and 234 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: executing a murder is still murder even if you don't 235 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: pull the trigger. There's also evidence that George bought the 236 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: truck used the night of the murder. George Wagner's child 237 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: has said for August twenty ninth his father, Billy Wagner's 238 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: child will be later this year, and as often happens 239 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: in murder trials, George's defense team has followed the flurry 240 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: of motions to suppress evidence and expert testimony to stymy 241 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: the prosecution's case. Defendish Motion sixty five, which is entitled 242 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: motion to compel production of other acts evidence pursuant to 243 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: Evidence Rule four or four B, and then Defendish Numbers 244 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: seventy seven. Pre trial motions on both sides, especially in 245 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: a murder case, are routine. The presiding judge holds initial 246 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: hearings to see whether certain evidence should be allowed in 247 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: front of a jury, and in this case, where the 248 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: trial should even happen today my second twenty twenty two, 249 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: and this is like hearing. We'd have a hearing schedule 250 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: on motions today. The defendant was present in court because 251 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: those attorneys John Patrick Parker and Richard M. Nash. Here again, 252 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: Stephanie and Jeff on what we know about George Wagner 253 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: the fourth defense team. According to our research, it's actually 254 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: not that common to have more than one criminal defense lawyer. However, 255 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: when you're being charged with a crime as severe as George's, 256 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: having more than one lawyer actually might be pretty helpful 257 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: in the sense that they have different areas of focus, 258 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: or that they're able to work different hours and thus 259 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: get more work done. George Wagner's defense attorney is John 260 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: Patrick Parker. He's been practicing criminal defense in Ohio for 261 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: thirty three years and is based out of Cleveland. He 262 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: also attended Case Western Reserve Law School. The second attorney 263 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: for George Wagner is Richard Nash, and Richard is a 264 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: local lawyer based out of Portsmith. His areas of focus 265 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: are criminal traffic offenses as well as post conviction dealings. 266 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: At forty six years old, he was born in Oklahoma City, 267 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: and attended Cleveland State University for law school and has 268 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: been practicing law since two thousand and four. In our 269 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: research of Richard Nash, we actually found out that a 270 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,479 Speaker 1: previous client is also involved in this story. He represented 271 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: none other than Michael Moran when he was facing sex 272 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: trafficking charges back in twenty twenty. And remember Michael Moran 273 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: represented George's grandfather and Angela's father, petty criminal Pug Carter 274 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: years ago. This means that the lawyer who is currently 275 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: defending George used to defend the lawyer who defended Angela's dad. 276 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: It's a little complicated, but it speaks to how this 277 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: community is very much tied together. It's super interesting, by 278 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: the way, even just seeing all of the players come 279 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: together because they're steeped in history. We're going to take 280 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: a break, will be back in a moment. Oh, I'm 281 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 1: Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. 282 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 283 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 284 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 285 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he 286 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: wasn't He really wasn't, he shouted into the point she 287 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: went unconscious. 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Who were just trying to get bought. 307 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: I think I was just freaking out because I'm scared 308 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: by connecting with each other. I'm going to be a father. 309 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: Ye are you feeling? This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love. 310 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or 311 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcast. She's a Hollywood Western. She's 312 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: Jack Harrowac but in a nap dress with braids. She 313 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: is one of the most important American children's authors of 314 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: the twentieth century. She's the basis for as television show 315 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: still watched around the world. 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Well, then you've never heard 335 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: us talk. Each week, Raven and Miranda and celebrity guests 336 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: like Demi Levado, Kiki Palmer, and Megan Trainer will spend 337 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: the fateful wheel and then the conversation will begin. Also, 338 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a ton of amazing guests because you 339 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: don't want to just hear us too all the time. 340 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: Do Yes, you do? And somehow We're going to start 341 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: with something like spider and end with well, when was 342 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: your last nervous breakdown? Listen to the Best Podcast Ever 343 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: with Raven and Miranda on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 344 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Under federal rules, the 345 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: presiding Judge is termed quote the gatekeeper of what evidence 346 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: will be allowed. Here's thirty year Hamilton County, Ohio Judge 347 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: Patrick tinkle Locker on the functions motion surf. You're cleaning 348 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: the slate so you can have a nice clean trial 349 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: when you're getting rid of all those things that Wait 350 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: a minute, I don't like the color of the curtains 351 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: in this room. You file motion. You don't want to 352 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: bring that motion in the middle of the trial, because 353 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: it's like you waited halfway through the trial, and there's 354 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: no sense. In enough and in simplest forms, these are 355 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: things that need to be taken care of so that 356 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: you can have a fair, clean trial. In a drug 357 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: possession case, for example, the defense might ask the judge 358 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: to exclude drug paraphernalia that the defense argues was attained 359 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: through the legal search of the defendant's house. In a 360 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: murder child such as this, emotion may seek to suppress 361 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: key witnessed testimony or ballistics findings. Often motions highlight issues 362 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: with the case that become the basis for an appeal 363 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: down the line. One woman concerned for the defense was 364 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: the issue of venue. George. The four child was originally 365 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: slated from March twentieth, twenty twenty, but in January his 366 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: attorney issued emotion to change the trial venue to a 367 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: different jurisdiction. Judges is obviously one of the highest profile 368 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: cases in the history of this community. There were news 369 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 1: conferences held by the Attorney General, by the local sheriff, 370 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: by different members of law enforcement updating the community on 371 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: the status of the investigation. Went on for two and 372 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: a half years, and this is subdue to great social 373 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: media discussion in the community. And it's our point of 374 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: view that a jury will not be able to be 375 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: selected here. That's fair to our client, given all of 376 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: this publicity, given all the notoriety of this case, we're 377 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: asking the court to change venue. In essence, the defense 378 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: argued that the murders were so widely followed locally that 379 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: Boidier the process of finding impartial jurors was impossible in 380 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: Pike County. We don't think the court can get a 381 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: fair jury, even though there are many people that probably 382 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: would give it their best effort. But we don't think 383 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: if people were being really honest with themselves and with 384 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 1: the court, that they're going to be able to say 385 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: that they would be able to put aside everything they 386 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: know about the case, whether it's true or not true, 387 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: and give George a fair trial. Mike Allen is a 388 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney in Cincinnati an illegal analyst for Fox 389 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: nineteen and Cincinnati. He makes a crucial point about the 390 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: essential fairness of most jurors. It's a motion for change 391 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: of venue. Those motions are frequently filed in high profile cases. 392 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 1: They're frequently filed, but it's seldom granted. However, in this case, though, 393 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: because Pike County is such a small county and I 394 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: don't know how many registered voters they have, they might 395 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: have a problem seating a jury. But here's the thing, 396 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 1: and this is probably the most important part of this, 397 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: and I don't think a lot of people realize it. 398 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: If a potential juror who is under oath answers a 399 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 1: judge's question, can you divorce yourselves and block out of 400 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: your mind any pre trial publicity that you have heard 401 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: and render a verdict based upon the evidence and the law. 402 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: If that juror says, yes, your honor, then that's a 403 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 1: good juror. I mean, just because someone has seen or 404 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: heard or read a newspaper article about it, that does 405 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: not disqualify them, because if it did, probably nine of 406 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: the people in Pike County would have seen or heard 407 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: something about it. Retire Judge Sylvia Hendon, who's been thirty 408 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: three years in the Benjam Hamilton County, two hundred miles 409 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: from Piketon, has a different view of things. I think 410 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: the change of venue in this case is probably going 411 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: to be the most hotly debated, both before and after 412 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: the trial. Again, Pike County is a county of somewhere 413 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: between twenty five and thirty thousand people. It is going 414 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 1: to be extremely difficult, in my opinion, to find people 415 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: in that county who don't know somebody involved in the 416 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 1: case and don't have an opinion on what happened here. Again, 417 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: my alan, if it were not a small county, I 418 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: think it would be a no brainer that the venue 419 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: would not change. But because it is such a small 420 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: county with a small number of registered voters, they might 421 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: blow through all of them. But there used to be 422 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: a law, and I think it's still there that if 423 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: you run out of registered voters, a judge can basically 424 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: send it Baillip or the cops, or you know, anybody 425 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: at his discretion to just literally pull him off the street. 426 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: The other thing you have to think about, and I 427 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: thought about while reading this thing with respect to a 428 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 1: change of venue. Okay, he grants a change of venue, 429 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: but to where? I mean where in the state of Ohio, 430 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: in the Midwest, where could a judge send it to 431 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: where there was not all this pre trial publicity. I mean, 432 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 1: as you well know that this is a case of 433 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: immense public curiosity and people are going to read about 434 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: it and watch things on TV and read the newspaper. 435 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: It's just like, okay, we'll change the venue, but where 436 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: and to what end. In addition to the venue challenge, 437 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: An Flanagan says, a lot of potential tourists will simply 438 00:26:52,280 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: not want to serve on this controversial trial. We see 439 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: jors that don't want to be there. They're just uncomfortable, 440 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: And so what happens Sometimes you'll see one juror say 441 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: I can't be fair, and you try to question why 442 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: they keep you fair, and they really don't have any reason. 443 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: They're just saying they can't be fair, right just or that. Well, 444 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: then two tours down the road will come up with 445 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: the same thing. They learn how to get off of 446 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 1: a journey Judge Patrick Dinklocker, famous for trying the first 447 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 1: woman in Hamilton County for the death penalty, lays out 448 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 1: another potential scenario of jury contamination. Okay, you said you 449 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: saw the newspaper, what did you actually read? Did you 450 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 1: see it on social media? Did you talk to your 451 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: friends about it? Did you text anybody about it? I 452 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: think those are all relevant questions and questions that the 453 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: attorneys will ask regarding, you know, whether or not they're 454 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: going to be fair and impartial, because they can obviously 455 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: say young fair and impartial. But if the lead up 456 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: to that is they wrote on Facebook saying, Wow, this 457 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: guy's guilty as can be, you know, and they Mittamy, well, 458 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: then the judge is in a different situation. They've got 459 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: this guy, Hume. If you can't get twelve people that 460 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: can put upside all the social media all or whatever 461 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: the publicity they've seen and whatever, and you're right, then 462 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: you change the venue. And that's something that both sides 463 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: will probably bring up. On May second, twenty twenty two, 464 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: Judge Randy during Torpedo the defense's motion for a new venue, 465 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: ruling that George the fourth trial would remain in Pike County. 466 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: The ruling cleared a path for the trial that reporter 467 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: Angeanette Leavey says will be a heated one. This is 468 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: a really old courthouse. I think it's from the Civil 469 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: War era. So the air conditioning is not great. So 470 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: jury selection starting on July fifth? Could you get any hotter? 471 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: I mean, could you kick any more uncomfortable time of 472 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: the year in Ohio where it gets so muggy and 473 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: gross and humid because of being in the Ohio River Valley? 474 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Could you pick up worse time to do this? No 475 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: matter the weather, It's on Judge Randy Deering to oversee 476 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: this trial. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. Here's what we know 477 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: about Judge Randy Deering. He went to undergrad and law 478 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: school at Ohio State and started practicing law back in 479 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four. Judge Deering took office in two thousand 480 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: and five and was reelected in twenty ten and most 481 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: recently in twenty sixteen. Interestingly enough, in May of twenty fifteen, 482 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: Judge Deering swore in Charles Reader as the forty first 483 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: Pike County Sheriff. And Charles Reader is obviously very involved 484 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: in this story. We called the county Clerk's office, who 485 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: informed us that at seventy years old, Judge Deering is 486 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: now too old to officially serve as a judge, meaning 487 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: that he can't run again. His time as judge will 488 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: end in January or February of twenty twenty three. That 489 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: being said, because the Wagner cases will likely be ongoing 490 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: at that time, the Supreme Court could appoint him a 491 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: retired judge over the case or cases so that he 492 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: could finish them out. The trial promises to be a 493 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: long one. There are some three hundred and fifty witnesses. 494 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: Imagine the problem that many witnesses would have created if 495 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: the venue were forced to move. George, the Fourth Attorney, 496 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: has press Judge during to release and seal a pre 497 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: trial copy of transcripts of all witnesses who testified before 498 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: the grand jury in twenty eighteen. The prosecution of counter 499 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: that the Ohio State Supreme Court already ruled the defense 500 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: is not entitled to that information. The list of witnesses 501 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: is extensive, but Ann Flanagan points out that there are 502 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: four suspects and eight victims. In a tangled case like this, 503 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: with so many suspects witnesses at um, you have eight 504 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: individuals chilled, and I don't know how many corners participated 505 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: in the autopsies. I don't know if it was all one, 506 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: if it was a number, but just right there, than 507 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 1: you have a multiplied factor because all of those homicides 508 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: are part of each one of these defendants cases. And 509 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: then you have all of the analysts. You have a 510 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: blood witnesses, you get the shoe print witnesses, you have custodians. 511 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: Who's the custodian of the Walmart shoe department, I mean? 512 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: And the receipt how did they get the bookkeeping records 513 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: of the receipt and the video authentication from Walmart? So 514 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: theoretically you could have three witnesses from Walmart just to say, yes, 515 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: this is the receipt, we keep it in the ordinary 516 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: course of business, and somebody who does the same thing 517 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: for video, and somebody that handles the shoe department and 518 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: can say, yes, we keep athletic work shoes or whatever. 519 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: And a may hearing. As George the fourth defense team 520 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: continued to hurl motions at the bench. George Wagner bearded 521 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: and Balding began to look defeated. It's worth noting that 522 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: the defendants do not appear in court and shackles. This 523 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: is done so they can avoid the appearance of guilt. 524 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: Billy and George, you know, all of them. Actually, anytime 525 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: they've appeared in court, Pike County bought a stun best. 526 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: It's like this thing that they wear under their clothes 527 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: so that if they get out a line or try 528 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: to escape, or they grab a pen and try to 529 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: stab somebody or whatever. Literally, the deputies can push a 530 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: button and it sends I think eighty thousand volts into 531 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: their bodies. We have to remember that all this legal 532 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: wrangling is particularly intense because George Wagner is facing the 533 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: death penalty. As a reminder, Jake Wagner's pleadale takes the 534 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: death sentence off the table for him and his family members, 535 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: but only if he testifies to the satisfaction of the prosecution. 536 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: The jury must carefully consider the possibility that just because 537 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: George is Jake's brother and Angela and Billy's son, it 538 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: does not necessarily mean he pulled the trigger that night 539 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: in April twenty sixteen, and if he didn't actually shoot anyone, 540 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 1: should he faith lethal injection. Here's George Wagner's defense team. 541 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: What is really important here is that the court talks 542 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: about a basic premise of our criminal justice system is 543 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: as follows, Our law punishes people for what they do 544 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: and not who they are. And why is it important 545 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: in this case? The reason it's important in this case 546 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: is that the court is aware the state is arguing 547 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: that George is part of a conspiracy and a criminal 548 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: enterprise and participate in the aggravated murders and the other 549 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,640 Speaker 1: twenty two counts. And a large part of the state's argument, 550 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: we anticipate, is he's a Wagner and this is how 551 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: the Wagners operate there. Now, there certainly is a conspiracy charge, 552 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 1: we understand that, and there's specific law with respect to conspiracy, 553 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily apply to everything. So we think 554 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: it's important that the court keep this basic premise of 555 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: our justice system in mind and at the appropriate time 556 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 1: and struck the jury concerning that. And the event of 557 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 1: a guilty verdict for George Wagner, there's the possibility that 558 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: the death penalty will still be on the table. Here's 559 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 1: Ann Flanagan and Judge Dinker Locker to break down what 560 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: happens next. And I gotta be careful with what I say, 561 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: because you're supposed to treat the guy who breaks a 562 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: window and goes into drug store the same as you 563 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 1: do a death penalty person. But the practicality of it 564 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: is that you know you're dealing with the most serious 565 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: of cases. You know you have to do everything you 566 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: can to try to get it right because there's a 567 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: life on the line, and at least for some of us, 568 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: life is very very very very important. At this point, 569 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: we would say there would be two phases, and so 570 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,800 Speaker 1: the first phase is the liability or trying to determine 571 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: did the state in fact prove that he was a 572 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: complete sitter in these homicides as to George the fourth 573 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: And then the second phase would be a weighing process 574 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: for the jury. It's called a mitigation hearing. It is 575 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,879 Speaker 1: unique and that this is the one time where you 576 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: have jurors essentially participate in the sentencing decisions. Typically, for 577 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: all other crimes, the judge will make the decision on 578 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: sentencing within the guidelines of our legislature. However, in the 579 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: capital case, the jury will be part of a weighing process. 580 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: They are still not sentencing, but they are going to 581 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: give a recommendation to the judge. Should he have an 582 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: opportunity at parole, should he have the highest number of 583 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,839 Speaker 1: years before that opportunity at parole comes up. Should he 584 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: have no chance at parole just a life sentence, or 585 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: should be in fact be exposed to execution that definitely. Ultimately, 586 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: the jury can be swapped for a three judge panel 587 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: the defending can they have a three judge panel. Then 588 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: the three judge panel tries the case. Okay, they render 589 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: a verdict this whether or not the person is guilty 590 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: or not, and then they sentence okay, which you know, 591 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: can be the death penalty, can be life without parole, 592 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 1: life after twenty or thirty or whatever. The judges can 593 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: do that, but most times it's a jury trial, so 594 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: the trial is conducted in front of the jury because 595 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: obviously you don't get to the death penalty phase until 596 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: you make a determination. If the guy's guilty of what 597 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: he's charged with, and for example, I mean he's charged 598 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: with aggravated murder with what they call death specs, there 599 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: are further hearings to be had before the defendant's fade 600 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: is sealed. Eventually, the case may head to the highest 601 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: court in the State of Ohio. But if the jury 602 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: does go ahead and signs off and makes a recommendation 603 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: that they believe the death penalty is appropriate, then it 604 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: goes to the judge to make a decision. The judge 605 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 1: has another hearing with the defendant participating, counsel participating. You know, 606 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: a lot of different things go into it. Then the 607 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,919 Speaker 1: judge makes a decision. If the judge says the death 608 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: penalty is warranted in the case, then the judge signs 609 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: off on that. The next step then is to go 610 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: to the Ohio Supreme Court, and then the Ohio Supreme 611 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: Court reviews the whole record, reviews everything they can review 612 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: about the case. Whatever defense counsel brings up, it's something 613 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: that they believe should be a reason to throw out 614 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: the death penalty, or throughout the conviction, or throughout the 615 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: whole case. At every phase, the onus is always on 616 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: the honorable person on the bench to rule as fairly 617 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: as possible. I think you truly, truly, truly have to 618 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: want to be fair and treat everybody fairly. You truly 619 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: have to seek justice. Everybody's got a different definition of justice. 620 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: I understand that, But for me, you want to be 621 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,320 Speaker 1: able to walk off that bench and say to yourself, 622 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,040 Speaker 1: I did the best I could. I try to be 623 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: fair to everybody. When I think about a really good judge, 624 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: I think about somebody who is willing to put in 625 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 1: the time to read everything there is to read, maybe 626 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: most importantly, to listen to everything that's being presented. And 627 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 1: I think probably paramount is to keep an open mind 628 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: until the end of the case. Now that's a hard 629 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: thing to do because everybody brings to the bench their 630 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: own personal experiences. But it is just critically important that 631 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: you don't come in there with your mind made up. 632 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 1: You do a disservice to your oath if you do that. 633 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 1: But an excellent judge needs a jury capable of looking 634 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: at the case squarely. I think it's real important. And 635 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: I've told over the years a number of attorneys that 636 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: we're not here trying to get twelve people that are 637 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: going to go for you, and we're not here for 638 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: the other side getting twelve people. You guys are supposed 639 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: to be working to get a fair and impartial jury. 640 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: That's your job. Now that's easy for me to say. 641 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: For the prosecution, for example, all it takes is one 642 00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: person is they've got one person that you know, isn't know. 643 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: I really don't like the death penalty. I don't think 644 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: it's a good thing. I really don't want to do it. 645 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 1: I mean that sounds like kind of a weak juror 646 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: for the prosecution. I think you'd agree. Okay, so they 647 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: maybe have to use a peremptory to get rid of 648 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: that person. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. I'm 649 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. 650 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 651 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 652 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 653 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 654 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He choked and to the point she 655 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 656 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 657 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 658 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: to hey for his crime. He needed to be put 659 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 660 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: him right now, i'd spit on him. I would call 661 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister, 662 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 663 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, 664 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Best Podcast 665 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:26,240 Speaker 1: Ever with Raven and Miranda, you'll hear well the Best 666 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: podcast Ever. Join Raven Simone and her partner Miranda may 667 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: Day as they let the Wheel of Words determine the 668 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,080 Speaker 1: topic of that week's show. Every episode will spin a 669 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: wheel of random words from things like animosity to something 670 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: like zodiac and whatever it lands on, that's what we're 671 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: going to talk about for around an hour. Think we 672 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: can't do it, well, then you've never heard us talk. 673 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: Each week, Raven and Miranda and celebrity guests like Demi Levado, 674 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: Kiki Palmer, and Megan Trainer will spin the fateful wheel 675 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 1: and then the conversation will begin. Also, we're gonna have 676 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 1: a ton of amazing guests because you don't want to 677 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: just hear us too all the time. Do yes, you do? 678 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: And somehow We're going to start with something like spider 679 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: and end with well, when was your last nervous breakdown? 680 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: Listen to the Best Podcast Ever with Raven and Miranda 681 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app apples, podcasts or wherever you get 682 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Everybody, we know there are a ton of 683 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: podcasts out there. Well, we have one we would love 684 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: for you to check out. It is called The pen 685 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scoville. We 686 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, but 687 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: now most of all, we are your pen pals. Every 688 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: single episode we get two letters that we read from 689 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:41,360 Speaker 1: our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be about 690 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're also 691 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring you 692 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch you 693 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose Burn, Well, 694 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: this is West Hollywood. We keep it clean. Jodpat is 695 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: that considered? Brian, I'm just showing you that my mind 696 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: is quick, if not that funny. And Mandy Moore. We're 697 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 1: all crossing the line together. Listen to The pen Pals 698 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: Podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the 699 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,800 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, 700 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: and sirely your new pen pals. Daniel Van Kirk and 701 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:22,719 Speaker 1: Rory Scoboy. How Rude Tanta Rito's is the Full House 702 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,000 Speaker 1: rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week, get together 703 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 1: with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, also known 704 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as they team 705 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: up to relive every episode of your favorite Friday night 706 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on a little 707 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,359 Speaker 1: show called Full House, playing frenemies but becoming besties whenever 708 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 1: the cameras weren't rolling, and now thirty five years later, 709 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: it's our biggest adventure yet. Get ready for Jody and 710 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 1: Andrea to tell all as they take an in depth 711 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: book back at life in and around the Tanner Home 712 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 1: from the very very beginning. So if you think you 713 00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 1: know everything there is to know about Full House, how Rude, 714 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 1: We'll be reliving every moment with you, and we'll be 715 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: joined by our Full House family, including all your favorites 716 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: from one hundred and ninety two episodes. We'll reveal the 717 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,799 Speaker 1: hidden treasures you may have missed within the show, and 718 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: we'll take a trip down memory lane together. Listen to 719 00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: How Rude Tantartos on the iHeartRadio Appicable podcasts or wherever 720 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. As Judge Hendon points out, the 721 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: whole legal procedure, while carefully architected to bring justice and 722 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: closure to families, can do nothing to restore what's been lost. 723 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: If there is a tragedy greater than the tragedy that 724 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,560 Speaker 1: unfolded in this case, it has to be the fact 725 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 1: that this child is now without a mother and a 726 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: father in a set of circumstances that some day shall 727 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:59,760 Speaker 1: be old enough to understand. It's tragic beyond description. Reflecting 728 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: on her time as prosecutor, and Flannagan comments on the 729 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: distinct feeling of loss in the courtroom. That's one of 730 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: the things I don't miss, And I didn't know how 731 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: much I didn't miss until I started reviewing all of this, 732 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,960 Speaker 1: and I thought, oh my gosh, it just springs back 733 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,720 Speaker 1: so much and how hard the attorneys for both sides 734 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 1: are hooking to bring fair justice to their sides, but 735 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,399 Speaker 1: because they're good advocates and they do care. I think 736 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,919 Speaker 1: it's just a tremendously intense experience, and one can only 737 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: imagine how it comes across to the families who are 738 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: sitting there on the personal side of appearing about the 739 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: loss of someone and not really interested in the technology 740 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: behind shoeprints. Who are blood spatter or this or that. 741 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: They just start feeling that someone they loved just gone. 742 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 1: More on that next time. If you're enjoying The Pikes 743 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,479 Speaker 1: and Massacre, listen to our other hit series Crazy and Love. 744 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: New episodes there every Tuesday wherever you get at your podcasts. 745 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: For more information and case photos, follow us on Instagram 746 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikes and Massacre is produced 747 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,279 Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Alan Wider and 748 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,560 Speaker 1: me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis, 749 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: Music by Jared Aston. The Pikes and Massacre is a 750 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 751 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 752 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:39,240 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting 753 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,080 Speaker 1: a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's 754 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. 755 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,719 Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be 756 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: eligible bachelors. One of them one of the spot there 757 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: in bout on paper he was perfect, but in reality, 758 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,680 Speaker 1: this guy a workout. He shouted to the point she 759 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,959 Speaker 1: went unconscious. I would call him and I would say, 760 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. You can listen to 761 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcast or 762 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Elvis Duran on 763 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: my new podcast, Thinking out Loud. With Elvis Duran, I'll 764 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: be bringing you candid and maybe sometimes a little crazy 765 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 1: interviews with people from all walks of life. We'll touch 766 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: on subjects that you just can't talk about on the radio, 767 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,959 Speaker 1: like life, love, success, failure, or whatever else comes to mind, 768 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: but all jacked up because after being in this business 769 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 1: for as long as I have, I want to get 770 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 1: to the bottom of what makes people tick. And listen 771 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: to my new podcast, Thinking out Loud on the iHeartRadio, Apple, 772 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, how 773 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,799 Speaker 1: does the half American, half Nicaraguan party girl from New 774 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,919 Speaker 1: Orleans with absolutely no journalism experience right the biggest story 775 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: of the eighties. That's what journalist is all about. I'm 776 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:02,719 Speaker 1: a woman, life beat tis not wearing a brawl, curses 777 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,439 Speaker 1: like a sailor. I got balls, bigger than any man. 778 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: Dan Rather used to call me his secret weapon. Listen 779 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 1: to Journalist to every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 780 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone said I'd have 781 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,280 Speaker 1: to leave my job to earn a marketing degree. Everyone 782 00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: except WGU. Their competency based online model let me complete 783 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 1: assignments and take tests at my pace with no set 784 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,560 Speaker 1: logging times. Apply free at WGU dot edu