WEBVTT - Amy Spitalnick 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.560 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Set's podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.360 My guest today is Amy SPITTALNI, CEO of the Jewish 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:22.040 Council for Public Affairs. Amy, what is the Jewish Council 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:23.080 for Public Affairs? 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.600 Thanks so much for having me, Bob. JCPA. The Jewish 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.280 Council for Public Affairs is a nearly eighty year old 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:35.000 organization that is really rooted in the recognition that Jewish 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:40.000 safety is strongest in communities where we have deep relationships 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.520 with our neighbors, where we have inclusive democracy, and where 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.839 those lines of communication and relationship are open, all in 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.680 service of the sort of inclusive, pluralistic society we know 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.640 Jews have really been safest in throughout history. 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.280 Okay in English? What is the JCPA? 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.360 So, what this means in practice is that we work 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.560 with one hundred and twenty five Jewish Community Relations councils 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.360 around the country, empowering, engaging them, and working with national 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.839 partners as well on building those sorts of cross community 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:21.320 relationships on issues related to democracy and fighting anti Semitism 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.000 and fighting other forms of hate. Recognizing that at this 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.160 moment we are seeing unprecedented threats to our community's safety 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:34.560 unprecedented threats to our democracy, and that to mobilize effectively 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:39.600 against all of them requires building coalitions across communities to 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.200 do that as strongly and effectively as possible. 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:47.280 Okay, how is your job and your efforts changed from 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.520 before October seventh and after October seventh? 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.680 So you know, I started this job full time on 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.200 September fifth, and we knew it was going to be 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.160 a challenging job. Regardless prior work, I had been really 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:08.240 focused on fighting extremism and increasingly normalized anti Semitism, in 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.760 white supremacy and other forms of hate, and certainly going 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.800 into this role, we knew that all of those factors 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.080 were front and center and top of mind for many 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.520 in the Jewish community, and building relationships across communitys were 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:28.440 particularly crucial to taking on this crisis. October seventh, of course, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:32.600 only made that more urgent. It has, in so many 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:37.160 ways put a fine point on just how tenuous this 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:40.640 situation is for the Jewish community in America right now, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:45.519 for so many other communities, and it has really created 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.360 a crisis in which we've seen extremists seek to exploit 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.520 what's happening in Israel and Gaza to further tear communities apart, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.680 make Jews and others feel isolated in this moment, and 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.680 make the sort of cross community relationships that we know 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.120 that are at the core of our work at Chasepa 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:08.560 and core to jew or safety feel less attainable than ever. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.640 And so we have to work infinitely harder to keep 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:18.440 these relationships strong, to keep them frankly open in the 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.920 first place right now, and ensure that we are not 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.000 losing sight of all of the threats that we are 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.320 facing as a community, even as we grapple with the 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.320 immediate crisis post October seventh, which again, in so many 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.280 ways really just exposed and exacerbated so much of what 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:37.640 we already knew to be true. 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:40.160 So why does everybody hate the Jews? 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:44.920 Well, look, it's important to understand anti semitism right. Anti 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:48.000 Semitism is unlike so many other forms of bigotry. It 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:52.080 functions as a form of prejudice or bias in and 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:57.040 of itself, and that alone, of course, leads to attacks 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:01.920 against Jews simply because they're Jews. But unlike other forms 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.920 of religious or racial or ethnic bigotry, anti Semitism also 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.800 operates as an overarching conspiracy theory rooted in lies and 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.920 tropes about Jewish power and influence, and so because it 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:22.000 functions that way, it serves to not just operate as 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:27.240 you know, disdain, but actually allows it to apply to 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.240 virtually any circumstance in which something bad is happening and 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:37.000 someone needs to be blamed, right, whether it is whether 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.760 it is you know, the idea of the changes happening 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:42.760 to our country, the demographic changes that some on the 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.080 far right are seeking to pin on the Jewish community. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:49.359 This idea of Jews will not replace us or the 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.479 American government support for Israel in this moment which many 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.960 want to pin on Jewish power and influence rather than 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:03.800 necessarily American interests the region, there needs to be some 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:12.239 sort of puppet master or h or uh control, someone 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.719 controlling and pulling the strengths. And so the way that 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:21.719 antisemitiism functions in this way, as this conspiracy theory allows 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:25.280 it to take root and manifest in so many different 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:29.880 circumstances that are in some cases tied to specific ideologies 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.120 and in other cases totally removed from the ideological spectrum, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:40.320 and operate simply as as these sorts of conspiracy theories 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.200 targeting Jews. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.919 But you know, if the Jews have all the money. 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:46.560 If that were true, I don't know. I would have 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:47.799 a bigger apartment, I think. 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:49.919 But what do you know? These are tropes that you 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.080 hear in a regular basis. Your job is fighting anti semitism. 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:56.800 So someone says the Jews have all the money. What's 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:57.880 the response to that. 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.200 Well, it gets It's much more complicated than that, right, So, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.040 we have a number of anti Semitic tropes that have, 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.200 according to research from the EDL and others, definitely become 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:15.520 more prevalent in recent years. We've seen these increase from 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.920 a handful small percentage of Americans buying into these anti 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.920 Semitic troops ten years ago to a much more significant 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:29.000 portion buying into five six anti semitic tropes at any 0:06:29.000 --> 0:06:31.520 given time. And so what that tells us is that 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.560 there has been this sort of normalization of anti semitism. 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.160 In some cases, it manifests in the tropes that you 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.600 just talked about. And I will say, it's not even 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.280 necessarily meant maliciously in certain cases, right, some people are 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:48.840 simply saying. Some people sort of see these tropes as compliments, 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:53.000 and how we engage people in understanding that when you 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.799 talk about Jewish money, when you talk about Jewish power 0:06:55.880 --> 0:07:01.719 and control, it can easily be perceived or shape shift 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:07.120 into more explicitly anti Semitic tropes that further these harmful 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.960 narratives and that make Jews unsafe. And so what we 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.600 have seen be most effective in actually addressing some of 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.960 these are actually one on one conversations where we're helping 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:21.720 people understand why something like that furthers the broader conspiracy 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.280 theories and narratives that we know make Jews and frankly 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:26.760 all of us less safe. 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.960 Okay, So let's say we're having a one on one 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:33.960 conversation and I say, but Jews have all the money. 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:35.800 What do you say? 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:42.200 That is rooted in longstanding, age old anti Semitic tropes 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:47.720 related to Jews and power. The Historically, many have tried 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.920 to pin financial control and other forms of power on 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.640 the Jewish community as a means to scapegoat the Jewish 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.080 community for the ills of society. And when we talk 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:01.960 about Jews as having all of this control, having all 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:04.640 of this money, having all of this financial power, it 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.800 only seeks to reinforce these tropes and the broader conspiracy 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:13.720 theories that they fuel making Jews less safe and brought 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.400 more broadly, fueling distrust in our democracy and in our 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.480 society in a way that makes all of us less safe. 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.720 But where does it come from, Why does everybody think 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:25.360 Jews have all this money? 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.200 Well, it comes from these age old anti Semitic tropes 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.559 and narratives that have been around for millennia at this point, 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:39.520 going back to you know, to Shylock, going back to 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.680 the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and everything in between, 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:50.920 in which Jews were really painted as as people who 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:57.880 used the financial system, who used power to effectively control things, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.400 to influence things. 0:08:59.480 --> 0:08:59.880 And so. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:07.640 It is deeply connected to those millennia old manifestations of 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.280 anti Semitism are deeply connected to what we see today. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.600 There's nothing new under the sun when it comes to 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:17.760 anti Semitism, but rather it is just manifesting in new, 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:21.439 specific ways tied to the issues of the moment, whether 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.400 it be those who are talking about Jewish efforts again 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.320 to change the demographics of our country or to support Israel, 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:32.079 or to otherwise connect the dots to what they believe 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:37.800 to be what they believe to be the ills of 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:38.280 the moment. 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.280 Okay, if you go back one hundred years ago, Blacks 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:48.520 and Jews were aligned in America, there's suddenly, well not suddenly, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.480 there was eventually a bifurcation about fifty sixty years ago. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:58.880 What is that tension between black people and Jews about? 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:04.880 I would argue that there isn't actually attention there. There 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.840 are many who want us to feel like that there's 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.560 feel like there's attention there, when in fact, we know 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.640 societies in which black people in which Jewish people are safe, 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.400 are safer societies for everyone, and that the advancement of 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:25.280 civil rights, the fight against extremism, against racism, against anti 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.960 semitism are all inextricably linked. And so that there are 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:35.240 many across the political spectrum who seek to tear communities apart, 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.000 who think that by pitting our communities against each other, 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.920 by painting the safety of one community as zero sum, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.760 and that the rights the advancement of any one community 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.760 comes at the expense of another community, it makes it 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.000 harder for us to actually be in solidarity with one 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.959 another and advance the broader framework that we know necessary 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.840 to all of us being safe. 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.079 Okay, well, well, let's cut through the BS so subsequent 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.080 to the war, there are a number of organizations of 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:14.120 Black Life Matters that didn't necessarily represent every Black person 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.880 in America or even everybody in that organization who literally 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.080 came out in favor of the Palestinians and against the Jews. 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.000 It's hard to believe that the African Americans and the 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.640 Jews are aligned under those circumstances. 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.280 Again, I think that there are extremest voices in specific communities, 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.400 including some of those statements that you're referencing, that are 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:41.679 not reflective of the entire community that went to extreme positions, 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.320 positions that I find abhorrent in terms of labeling hamas 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.679 as active terror as active resistance, but again, are not 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.960 representative where the vast majority of the community actually is. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.640 Okay, so let's switch. So we had these Black Lives 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:03.000 Matters protests across a maria across the world in the 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.480 wake of what happened in Minnesota. But other than in 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.960 France the other day, where one hundred thousand people came 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.440 to march, we don't see an equivalent march for Jews 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.080 against anti Semitism. Why not. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:23.600 I'm headed to DC tomorrow for a massive march against 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:28.920 anti Semitism and support of Israel, and so I expect 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.920 there will be tens of thousands of people there with me, 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:36.920 and that they'll come from a variety of different communities. 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:42.839 It's there are a lot of people who have shown 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.679 up in very different ways over the last five weeks. 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.200 It's very easy to feel like we are isolated and 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.320 alone right now, and there are very good reasons too. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.840 There are many who are trying to make the Jewish 0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.800 community feel as if there is no one standing with us, 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.400 and the loudest voices who are spreading that sort of bikertry, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.000 including some of the statements that you reference, are getting 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:07.679 outsized attention. But if you actually look at who's showing up, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.319 from government officials, elected officials from the federal, state and 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.560 local levels, to community partners, there are many people who 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.160 have actually come and stood with the Jewish community, who 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.160 has spoken out against Tamas's terror attack, who've demanded the 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.200 release of the hostages, who have specifically called out rising 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:30.080 anti semitism and hate in this moment. And so what 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.560 we need to be doing is continuing to empower and 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.880 amplify those voices that are speaking out for us, that 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.360 are showing up in allyship in whatever form that takes, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.559 in the form of statements, in the forms of showing 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:50.000 up at marches and pro Israel and protests against anti Semitism, 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.640 in the form of building relationships across communities, recognizing that 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:56.880 even in this moment, we are not going to necessarily 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.640 agree with all of our neighbors about the policy solutions 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.720 to these early Palestinian conflict, but that we can agree 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.679 that the rising anti Semitism we're seeing the ripple effects 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.480 of this conflict from anti Semitism to that the Islamophobian, 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.120 anti Arab hate targeting those communities is a crisis for 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.520 all of us, and we need to be working together 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.360 to mitigate it. And so there are people who are 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.920 absolutely showing up, not nearly as many as some of 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.800 us would have hoped, but it's important not to lose 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.280 sight of that because it's precisely what extremists want is 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.960 to make Jews feel isolated and alone. In this moment. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:35.360 What is BBS. 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:41.280 BDS is boycott's divestments and sanctions of Israel. 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:45.760 And who is behind BDS just the kids on campus, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.920 other people in America. What is delivering its. 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:54.360 Strength BDS is more of a movement, so it's hard 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:59.080 to say that any one individual or group is behind it. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:03.960 It there are a number of organizations, students, others who 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.760 support the BDS movement. As you can imagine, I oppose 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:14.560 the BDS movement. It's a tool that some are using 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.840 to try to effectively put pressure on Israel when Israel 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:27.680 is directly isolated and treated uniquely, treated differently than any 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:33.040 other country. It of course raises specific issues and concerns, 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:38.040 and so there are many who, of course oppose the 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:39.600 BDS movement for that reason. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.160 Is or is not the BDS movement supported by the 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.720 Palestinians in ways that are not obvious, both financially in 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:48.560 terms of direction. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:52.120 I'm not sure I understand the question. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:57.200 Well, Noah Tishby basically says another commentator in this sphere 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.400 that BDS is not as benign as it looks on 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.440 the surface, that it's an active organization funded and directed 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.840 by Palestinians in the Middle East. Is that something you 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:10.440 agree with? 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.040 I do not know who's funding the BBS movement. This 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:18.440 is not my area of expertiation. 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:23.040 Okay, okay, then let's move on from that. So why 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:29.280 all of this Jew hate an anti Israel sentiment on 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.280 college campuses at this time. 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:37.480 Well, you know I was. I was a student leader 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:40.600 when I was in college over fifteen years ago. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.520 At this well, well, well, slow down, said on where'd 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.960 you go to college? And what exactly did being a 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.080 student leader mean? 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:52.560 So I went to Tufts University in Boston, and I 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.960 was the president of Hillel on campus, the Jewish student organism. 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.160 Well, let's go back before that. So where did you 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.200 grow up? Up? 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:00.680 In New York? 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.160 But New York, New York City, the suburbs. 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.520 I grew up on Long Island. Although I try to 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.440 mask my accent, you. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.399 Do a good job of that. Did you grow up 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.200 in one of the so called five towns? 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.360 Not far from there, but not in one of them? 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.520 Okay? But the reason I bring that up is you 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:24.320 grew up in an environment where there was a strong 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:25.440 Jewish presence. 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:30.280 Absolutely. Look, I grew up in a heavily Jewish area. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.879 I was the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, very Jewishly connected, 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.880 going to synagogue every Saturday, going to Hebrew School. Even 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:41.960 after my butmtz By going to what was called Hebrew 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:45.920 High School for continuing education. And so even though I 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.240 went to public school, Jewish education, Jewish engagement was front 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:56.240 and center in my life, and so it very much 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:02.000 I think shaped everything I did, even if I resisted 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:07.320 it at times. And clearly now I'm running a Jewish organization. 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.800 And perhaps if you had told me decades ago that 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.720 this is what I would be doing, I might not 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.240 have believed you. But the ways in which that Jewish 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:20.760 upbringing has shaped my path has become pretty clear in 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:21.399 recent years. 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:22.760 How many kids in the family. 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:29.960 I was one of two and the older. I'm the 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:37.000 older sibling and went to school at Toughts. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.359 Well, okay, let me, what does your sibling do? 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.439 She works in marketing, so. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.480 She has nothing professionally, She's not in this sphere. 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:51.120 Correct. She is, of course jewishly engaged in her own way. 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.240 But I am the maybe call it a massachist, the 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.840 person who decided to become a professional Jew in my day. Jab. 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.000 Okay, your parents? What did your parents do for work? 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.640 Both my parents were New York City public school teachers, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:09.720 and I think in many ways that really shaped my 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.399 outlook on the world as well. I remember them coming 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.199 home frustrated with the state of the city. They were 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:24.080 in New York City Public schools and queens, and you know, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.919 frustrated with funding, frustrated with their contract disagreements that they 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.760 were having from the city, And it really, in so 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:34.560 many ways put me on a path in terms of 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:44.239 public service and government. And so seeing that firsthand, it 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.399 really I think influenced my outlook on the world, the 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:51.200 ways in which government could be a tool for good 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.679 or for bad, and the impact that, in particular, local 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.480 government could have in a sort of an outsized way 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.120 on people's lives. And I spent a good portion ended 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.440 up spending a good portion of my career in state 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:08.480 and local government, partially because of the impact I saw 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.080 it have on the day to day of my own parents' 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:17.360 lives teaching for decades in the New York City public schools. 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.520 Okay, you're obviously very dedicated to the cause. Are you 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:28.480 an outlier or you following in the jet stream of 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.119 your parents? Were they as active and involved going to 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.600 synagogue Jewish causes as you are? 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.439 My mom, perhaps more so than my dad. You know, 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:42.119 my mom's parents are Holocaust survivors, and when they came 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.800 to the United States and had my mom, I think 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.200 it was important for them to be Jewishly connected because 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:53.800 they were persecuted, they watched their entire families be killed 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:56.440 simply because they were Jewish, and so to come here 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.160 to a place where they could practice that religion freely 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:05.520 and openly in whatever form that took felt important, and 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:10.960 so that Jewish connection ran I think throughout that side 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:16.840 of my family and directly in many ways, sort of 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:21.760 shaped how I grew up. And the fact that synagogue, 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.800 that Jewish engagement, that the sort of social action side 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.360 of Judaism was such a big piece of the puzzle. 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.280 I think, you know, again, it manifested in different ways 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.679 for different members of my family, but I think at 0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:40.560 the end of the day, so much of it feels 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:43.399 rooted in our own family history and the need and 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:46.679 the desire to feel like we are creating and living 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.800 a better life here than what my grandparents escaped from 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:52.119 not that long ago. 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.919 I see a stroller in the background, will tend to 0:21:55.960 --> 0:22:00.320 indicate you have a baby. This is audio only your 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.200 significant other. Are they Jewish? 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:09.320 They're not, But we are raising our child Jewish, and 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.520 I think is very you know, our family has very much, 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:20.600 I think been rooted in so many of the values 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:28.480 of Judaism in shaping how we live our lives, our 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.560 responsibility to make things better, to leave the world a 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:38.639 little better for the next generation, to know everything from 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:43.040 the Jewish traditions that are a day to day part 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.719 of our lives to I think those overarching values, and 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:49.199 it has been really meaningful to sort of see that 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:54.679 all come together, having our first child and passing that 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:59.200 on and experiencing that with them in new ways. 0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:03.920 Who performed the wedding ceremony. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.959 A dear friend of mine from college who's a rabbi. 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:12.080 We were on the Hillel student board together. She married 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:18.720 us and it was incredibly meaningful. It is particularly fun 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.439 to see your friends become rabbis because it didnotes some 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:28.800 sort of level of wisdom and expertise, which they absolutely have. 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.440 But when you knew them when they were nineteen, it's 0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:35.359 funny to juxtapose those two things. 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:38.720 Okay, I certainly heard from a young age that I 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:41.119 should marry a Jewish person. I've been married once the 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.760 person converted to their own volition. How did you feel 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:49.000 when you fell in love with somebody who wasn't Jewish. 0:23:49.080 --> 0:23:51.879 I did not expect to be talking about this. For me, 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:57.080 it's always about how you live your life. And I 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.879 don't think that anyone could necessarily argue that I'm not 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.879 living a Jewish life, given what I've done professionally and 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:06.840 given what I'm doing personally. And so for me, it 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:11.800 was really about, you know, there was no question there 0:24:12.000 --> 0:24:14.000 if this was the person I'm supposed to be with, 0:24:14.119 --> 0:24:19.000 if they were open to raising my child, our child Jewish, 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:24.000 if they were open to the Jewish values and practices 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.359 that were important to me, That's all that mattered. And 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.119 my partner is very much so open to that, engaged 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:33.960 in that. You know, we go to tat Shabat and 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:37.159 all of the fun things that come with being the 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:40.160 parent of a young, young Jewish child in New York 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:45.920 and and that has been incredibly meaningful to see. 0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:48.480 And what does your significant other do for a living? 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:54.320 He worked, He's a longtime journalist who has now moved 0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:58.520 into sort of the tech and anti disinformation space. 0:24:59.240 --> 0:25:01.639 Okay, the reason to bring all this up is many 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:06.159 people believe that it will cease being Judaism on the 0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:09.800 planet as a result of intermarriage. I even see this 0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:14.040 in the next generation of my sister's kids. Do you 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:15.000 have a take on that? 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:18.879 Well, I think we need to be in. You know, 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:21.920 we're not going to change the fact that Jews are intermarrying. 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:26.879 That is a very real part of the reality of 0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:30.199 American Jews in particular. The question is how are we 0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.479 engaging those people and those couples and families so that 0:25:33.520 --> 0:25:37.000 they stay Jewishly connected, And that could take a variety 0:25:37.040 --> 0:25:40.520 of arms. It could take the form of religious tradition 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:44.680 and practice the holidays, engaging them through synagogue. It can 0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:48.800 be engaging through Jewish values on social action and advocacy. 0:25:50.040 --> 0:25:51.960 It could be making sure that we are just simply 0:25:52.000 --> 0:25:57.200 creating spaces for intermarried couples, inter faith couples to grapple 0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:00.159 with the very real questions and challenges that so can 0:26:00.240 --> 0:26:04.119 come up in those relationships. And so we're never going 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:08.560 to stop the fact that We're never going to stop 0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:11.919 the fact of intermarriage, particularly here in America. But what 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:13.760 we can do is make sure that we are not 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:17.760 losing people from being engaged Jewishly because we've made them 0:26:17.760 --> 0:26:21.800 feel unwelcome in the community simply because they are intermarried. 0:26:23.200 --> 0:26:25.480 On the other end of the spectrum, there are very 0:26:25.640 --> 0:26:29.520