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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Back in the spring, I was part of a

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Speaker 1: traveling variety show called No Small Endeavor. It's put on

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Speaker 1: by a friend of mine, a theologian from Nashville named

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Speaker 1: Lee Camp. A bunch of us got in a big

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Speaker 1: tour bus left Nashville for Louisville, then Indianapolis, then Grand Rapids.

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Speaker 1: Lee and I told a story about the famous showdown

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Speaker 1: between the suffragettes and the anti slavery movement in the

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Speaker 1: mid nineteenth century, and then a bunch of musicians played

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Speaker 1: music to help us tell a story. It was one

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Speaker 1: of the most fun things I've ever done in my life. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: when you're traveling on a tour bus, you spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time talking to everyone else on the tour

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Speaker 1: bus and along the way. I got to know the

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Speaker 1: musical headliner on the show, the singer songwriter Drew Holcombe,

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Speaker 1: and I found him so thoughtful and fantastic and full

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Speaker 1: of life that I invited him to come to New

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Speaker 1: York and sit down with me at eight twenty fours

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Speaker 1: in reopened Cherry Lane Theater. And to my delight and

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Speaker 1: I hope your delight as well, he said yes. Drew

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Speaker 1: is in his early forties, Beard lives in Nashville, but

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Speaker 1: he's from Memphis. He's maybe a country artist, although he

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Speaker 1: would dispute that description. His band is called the Neighbors

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Speaker 1: and they've been together forever. And if you've never heard

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Speaker 1: his music, you're going to hear more than a little

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Speaker 1: bit on this episode. Because I gave him only one

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Speaker 1: rule before we had our conversation. You have to bring

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Speaker 1: your guitar and it can never leave your side.

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Speaker 2: Here we go, all right, all right, welcome everybody to

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Speaker 2: the Cherry Lane Theater.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be a great evening.

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Speaker 3: I want you guys to welcome Malcolm Gladwell and Drew Holcomb.

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Speaker 2: Good evening. I'll get it started with a song.

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Speaker 4: All right.

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Speaker 5: I am fairthe well Now, I am strong, I am goodbye,

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Speaker 5: long way from home. I am an orchard at the

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Speaker 5: start of spring. I am a mocking bird. I love

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Speaker 5: to you singing.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 5: I am an old road walking on my feet. I

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Speaker 5: am laughing me weeping willow tree. I'm a dog barkain

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Speaker 5: a honey bee steam. I ain't annoying you, bude. I've

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Speaker 5: got my wings. I'm gonna fly. I'm going to fly.

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Speaker 6: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to fly. I am moving, I.

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Speaker 5: Am flashing bones, I am a gunshot with my microphone.

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Speaker 4: I'm a boy at.

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Speaker 5: The window as the summer sun sets, an old man

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Speaker 5: in winter, nothing more, nothing less, And.

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Speaker 7: I'm gonna fly. I'm gonna fly, I'm gonna fly.

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Speaker 1: Tell me why you chose that to start with?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's my favorite one I've ever written. I just

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Speaker 2: figure when I get nervous, just play something you like.

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Speaker 1: You know, when when did you write that song?

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Speaker 2: I wrote that song probably January of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: I always tend to write a lot of songs right around,

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Speaker 2: mainly after New Year's It's a good time to kind

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Speaker 2: of get in your feelings and introspection about your life,

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Speaker 2: about the world around you, and it tends to be

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Speaker 2: a creative season for me.

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Speaker 1: How do you decide you say that's the favorite your

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Speaker 1: favorite song you've ever written?

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Speaker 2: Probably?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Why what is it about that song? Though? Well?

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Speaker 2: It was it was something about the song kind of

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Speaker 2: came out of this. I just turned forty around that time,

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Speaker 2: and I actually enjoyed all the way things that I

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Speaker 2: felt after turning forty. Everybody told me I should be

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Speaker 2: afraid of them, but I actually really enjoyed them. Also,

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Speaker 2: was kind of born in old soul. My mom said,

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Speaker 2: I was born an old man. I felt comfortable in

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Speaker 2: that transition already, just because of sort of how I am.

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Speaker 2: I started writing a song with the lyric started I'm

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Speaker 2: a boy at the window as the summer sunsets. I

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Speaker 2: have this keen memory for my childhood of being told

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Speaker 2: to go to bed before the sun went down in

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Speaker 2: the summertime, you know, and staring at the window and

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Speaker 2: seeing my neighbor whose parents let him stay up, and

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Speaker 2: being sort of full of jealousy but also sort of

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Speaker 2: full of wonder. And then also, even though I'm not old,

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Speaker 2: I feel certain I feel old in certain ways, and

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Speaker 2: I sort of this song is kind of in the tension,

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Speaker 2: is me just sort of embracing the tension of that,

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Speaker 2: And that tension feels more and more what I see

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Speaker 2: when I look in the mirror. And so when I'll

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Speaker 2: play that song, I feel it's like a blanket for me,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I also finally let myself admit that

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Speaker 2: I like my own music. You're not supposed to do that,

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Speaker 2: But I do like my own music.

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Speaker 1: Why you're not supposed to do that.

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Speaker 2: It's just a you know, cultural thing you shouldn't. You know,

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Speaker 2: if you drive down the street and see an artist

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Speaker 2: listening to their own music, you might think, man, what

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Speaker 2: an arrogant guy. But which that happens to me with

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Speaker 2: my kids sometimes because they want to hear my songs.

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Speaker 2: I just look at people, you know, hey, yep to

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Speaker 2: me listening to my own song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how would you describe the genre that that song

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Speaker 1: belongs to?

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Speaker 2: You know, I growing up, I was the music that

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Speaker 2: I listened to a lot sort of fit in either

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Speaker 2: categories of folk or rock and roll, some country, soul,

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Speaker 2: folk rock was sort of how I framed it before

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Speaker 2: this sort of ubiquitous word of Americana kind of came around,

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Speaker 2: and it felt like they created a sort of a

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Speaker 2: an institutional home for artists like myself who are definitely

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Speaker 2: not country in the sort of commercial sense, and we're

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Speaker 2: not rock in the sort of new radio sense, and

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Speaker 2: we were a bit homeless. There's a lot of us,

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Speaker 2: and so it kind of created this. So that's what

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Speaker 2: I say now is Americana. But one of the great

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Speaker 2: things about being in a you know, quote unquote Americana

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Speaker 2: artist is there's not really a lot of rules about

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Speaker 2: what you make, how you make whether the song has

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Speaker 2: five stanzas and no chorus or you know, horns or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You can kind of do whatever you want. It just

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Speaker 2: has to be sort of made by real people in

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Speaker 2: a you know, in a real sense.

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Speaker 1: You're you're from Tennessee and you live in Nashville, but

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Speaker 1: you you take great pains to distance yourself from country music.

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Speaker 2: Well it all started. I'm from Memphis, which is, you know,

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Speaker 2: two hundred miles west and a bit south of Nashville,

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Speaker 2: and we were raised Memphians are sort of it's it's

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Speaker 2: baked into your childhood and you're up bringing to hate Nashville. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's part of how you're raised. For instance, I

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Speaker 2: my parents, every fall we would drive to Knoxville, where

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Speaker 2: they attended school, and we'd go to a Tennessee football game.

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Speaker 2: And that's a three hundred and eighty seven mile drive.

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Speaker 2: So in eighteen years, let's say we did it. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, maybe sixteen times in my childhood that I

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Speaker 2: that I can recall, and so thirty two times through

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Speaker 2: Nashville we stopped zero times and I forty goes right

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Speaker 2: through the middle of town, and my dad would just say,

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Speaker 2: there's a state capital, keep bomb moving. So we grew

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Speaker 2: up admiring. You know, there was some country that sort

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Speaker 2: of leaked into my childhood. I think there's perceptions of

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Speaker 2: folks outside of the South that like, everybody in the

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Speaker 2: South just listen to country music. We listened to motown

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Speaker 2: and Bob Dylan and Amy Grant, you know, like it

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Speaker 2: was this interesting mix of like gospel music and you know,

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Speaker 2: black soul music and then all the my dad loved

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Speaker 2: all the sort of contemporary seventies songwriter stuff, and so

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Speaker 2: there was not a lot of country music in it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: in my childhood.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit more about Memphis and

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Speaker 1: Nashville in your mind. What is the difference between Memphis

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Speaker 1: and Nashville.

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Speaker 2: Well, practically speaking, I mean, Memphis is a very it's

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Speaker 2: a hometown city, meaning that most of the people that

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Speaker 2: live there grew up there. I had family from there,

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Speaker 2: grew up in the surrounding, you know, one hundred mile radius,

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Speaker 2: whereas Nashville attracts people from all over the country, especially

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Speaker 2: in the last fifteen to twenty years, and so it's

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Speaker 2: a much sort of work. Those two realities create different,

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Speaker 2: very different cultures. In Memphis, everybody knows each other and

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Speaker 2: you know, where'd you go to school and who do

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Speaker 2: you know. It's a bit of that small town, big

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Speaker 2: city experience, whereas in Nashville, so many young people move

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Speaker 2: there because of what the city can offer them, the

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Speaker 2: opportunities that may springboard out of living there. And then

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Speaker 2: it's a center for I mean the big employers in

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Speaker 2: Nashville or the music business and healthcare, which are both

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Speaker 2: sort of booming and transient jobs, Whereas Memphis it's you know,

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Speaker 2: these big blue collar companies like FedEx and AutoZone, and

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Speaker 2: so just creates very different cultures. And then you know, racially,

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Speaker 2: Memphis is majority African American town. Nashal is very lily white,

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Speaker 2: you know, so they're just they're they're very different. My

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Speaker 2: favorite story to tell about about Nashville and I moved there,

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Speaker 2: was Memphis is a great food town, especially cheap food,

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Speaker 2: you know, Tamali's and barbecue and great unique pizza, and

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Speaker 2: it's just a very you know, being a river town,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of transients over decades, so you get

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Speaker 2: a lot of unique food, and Nashville had basically nothing

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Speaker 2: that I that I wanted to eat, and I would

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Speaker 2: just complain to my wife. I was like, that's nice here.

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Speaker 2: I know you're from here and that's why I moved here,

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Speaker 2: but there's nothing to eat here that I want to eat.

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Speaker 2: And then fast forward almost twenty years and it's one

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Speaker 2: of the greatest food towns you know, in the country.

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Speaker 2: Everything's there now, so it's it's changing. It's it's a

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Speaker 2: very sort of get evolving and fluid place.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you can explain my favorite joke. It's my favorite

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Speaker 1: joke because I I feel it has many, many layers,

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Speaker 1: many of which I don't understand. It's a joke from

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Speaker 1: the Civil Rights Movement era. Black man in Detroit wakes

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Speaker 1: up in the middle of the night, it's one of

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Speaker 1: those people who come off from the South, you know,

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Speaker 1: and then turns to his wife and said, I had

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Speaker 1: a terrible dream, and she said, what happened? He said,

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Speaker 1: I dreamt that Jesus came to me and told me

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Speaker 1: to go to Birmingham. And she says, did Jesus say

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Speaker 1: go with you? He says, Jesus said, he go as

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Speaker 1: far as Memphis.

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Speaker 2: That's a great joke, isn't it that?

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Speaker 1: It's my favorite joke of all time. It is, like

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Speaker 1: I said, because it's a joke about Jesus who said

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Speaker 1: he would be with us always, but not in Birmingham,

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Speaker 1: not Burmiam. Yeah, it's a joke about Birmingham.

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Speaker 2: Like, it's definitely a joke at the expression Birmingham, dark,

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Speaker 2: dark joker.

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Speaker 1: But like, why did Jesus stop at Memphis?

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Speaker 2: Well, because, I mean, Jesus would love Memphis. There's there's

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Speaker 2: great food, there's great hospitality, there's great music, Like Jesus

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Speaker 2: would thrive there. Yeah, that was my experience. Jesus thrived

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Speaker 2: in Memphis.

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Speaker 1: You listened, Well, I want to go back to that

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Speaker 1: mixture of things you would listening to as a kid, Motown,

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Speaker 1: Amy Grant, What was the third one?

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Speaker 2: Bob Dylan.

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Speaker 1: That's a fantastic and unusual mix of things to be

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Speaker 1: exposed to. This is is this your father or your

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Speaker 1: mother's doing? Let's put both both.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So my dad grew up in the and you know,

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Speaker 2: my parents met in the third grade, and so they

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Speaker 2: they grew up seven or eight like blocks from each other.

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Speaker 2: So there's this very sort of I one of twenty

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Speaker 2: eight grandkids. It's like a very yeah, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: going on there. That's just on my mom's side. That

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Speaker 2: didn't include my dad's side.

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Speaker 1: So wait, there's twenty eight grand kids on your bomb's.

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Speaker 2: Side, that's right. Yeah, and I remember fourteen or fifteen,

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Speaker 2: I can't remember, but yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 5: Very like.

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Speaker 2: It'd be hard to overstate how sort of like central

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Speaker 2: Christianity and religion was to my upbringing. Part of that

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Speaker 2: was that when I was apparently when I was like

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Speaker 2: I don't even know how old, three, four or five

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Speaker 2: years old, someone from the church came to my parents'

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Speaker 2: house and they were everybody in their church was doing

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Speaker 2: like a record clean out of things in their house

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Speaker 2: that weren't honoring to God, and so they would get

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Speaker 2: rid of all these records that when I heard about

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Speaker 2: this in high school, I wept. I was like, oh, Dad,

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Speaker 2: you had all of these great records and original copies

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Speaker 2: that they managed there out because it was the Devil's

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Speaker 2: music that was really too bad. You know, a lot

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Speaker 2: of led Zeppelin got thrown out and things like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, I mean, come on, yeah, gotta get rid

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Speaker 2: of it, which we could. We'll come back to this.

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Speaker 2: But my first record I ever bought was Pearl Jams ten.

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Speaker 2: I was eleven year I actually got it for Christmas

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Speaker 2: from Santa Claus and my dad broke the record by

244
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Speaker 2: five pm on Christmas Day because we had to go

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Speaker 2: through the liner notes together and there's drug references and

246
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Speaker 2: he's like, you're too young for this and break. So

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Speaker 2: this was you know, an intense, an intense scene. But

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Speaker 2: that some of the things that made it through the

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Speaker 2: gauntlet was Bob Dylan's evangelical records of course, you know,

250
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Speaker 2: slow Train Coming Saved and there's another one. And then

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Speaker 2: because he still made it in there somehow his old

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Speaker 2: records also got a pass. Ye got grandfather in Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he was Jewish, so there's like a thing there too,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're allowed to have records made by Jewish artists.

255
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Speaker 2: So and then Motown was like it was all you

256
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Speaker 2: could listen to Motown except for like, what's the you know,

257
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Speaker 2: the great the market record just blinking off side of

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Speaker 2: Sexual Healing of course, well yeah, yeah, but the name

259
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Speaker 2: of the record, what's going on?

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Speaker 1: Oh, what's going on? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Oh, sexual Healing would have been was on that record,

262
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Speaker 2: wasn't it.

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Speaker 1: No, what's going on is earlier sex. I was saying,

264
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Speaker 1: sexual really is so far beyond.

265
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, you can only hear that the only

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Speaker 2: the only way you could hear that in my childhood

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Speaker 2: was at a wedding by the by the cover band

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Speaker 2: you know, and and so, and it still felt awkward

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Speaker 2: for everybody. But uh so, yeah there was so then

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Speaker 2: any Christian music was okay. Bob Dylan was okay, and

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Speaker 2: motown was okay because it was just a bunch of

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Speaker 2: love songs and clean oldies stuff, you know, before the

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Speaker 2: music business cut. You know, Amy messed up.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain to a heathen New York City audience

275
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Speaker 1: who Ammy Grant is and why she's important? Yeah?

276
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Speaker 2: Ammy Grant was sort of I mean, the whole genre

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Speaker 2: of contemporary Christian music was there was Southern gospel, which

278
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Speaker 2: is a whole different thing. So it's basically take the

279
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Speaker 2: songwriter model and people started applying it to their faith stories,

280
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Speaker 2: which this all predates the whole Now, the big thing

281
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Speaker 2: is all this big ensemble worship stuff, which was basically

282
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Speaker 2: like every all these church bands trying to sound like

283
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Speaker 2: coldplaying you two. So Amy Grant was like this young

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Speaker 2: songwriter and she was. They created old radio sort of

285
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Speaker 2: format around artists like her, and she became the most

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Speaker 2: most famous and successful. And then she had a crossover

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Speaker 2: pop hit called baby Baby that sort of sent her

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Speaker 2: into regular superstardom. And yeah, she was just a very

289
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Speaker 2: beloved woman and she's she's also as a human, she's like,

290
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Speaker 2: she's honestly one of the greatest ones I've ever met. Yeah,

291
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Speaker 2: I know her because my wife knew her. But I've

292
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Speaker 2: moved to Nashville again sort of like country and Christian music.

293
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Speaker 2: This town sucks, you know, And then I got to

294
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Speaker 2: know these people. I was like, Wow, these people are

295
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Speaker 2: all really great. This is tough.

296
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Speaker 1: Wait what so wait what what denomination were your parents?

297
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Speaker 2: Yeah? They they were They went like an independent Bible church.

298
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

299
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was non denominational. It's very they're very

300
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Speaker 2: proud of that.

301
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I was asking you about other music that that

302
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Speaker 1: made it in Yeah.

303
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Speaker 2: I think basically my parents were pretty okay with all

304
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Speaker 2: the classics. So we would go see you know, you

305
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Speaker 2: could go see Paul Simon. They built the Pyramid in

306
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Speaker 2: Memphis when I was a kid, which was a new

307
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Speaker 2: arena where the Memphis Tigers played, and so I got

308
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Speaker 2: a job there in high school as a part of

309
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Speaker 2: the event staff, and so I got to see all

310
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Speaker 2: these concerts for free by telling people to stop smoking,

311
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Speaker 2: you know, and had my little yellow shirt on, and

312
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Speaker 2: you know, anything from boys to men as easy top

313
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Speaker 2: to whatever could sell fifteen thousand tickets. I was, you know,

314
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Speaker 2: exposed to at a certain point that sort of the

315
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Speaker 2: rules weren't really that well enforced. It was a sort

316
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Speaker 2: of a young when we were young, was very much

317
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Speaker 2: that way. But our alarm clock every day growing up

318
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Speaker 2: was my mom played piano and she would play hymns

319
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Speaker 2: like that was get up and go to school. It

320
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Speaker 2: was like up from the gravey your roles, you know.

321
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Speaker 2: She was like a whole her like whole play on

322
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Speaker 2: get up and go to school. You know.

323
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Speaker 1: But that's fantastic.

324
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, daily it's got a great sense

325
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Speaker 2: of humor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I have a theory which I very grandiosely call

327
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Speaker 1: Gladwell's theory of asymmetrical parenting, which is that at any

328
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Speaker 1: given moment, when we account for our parental influence on

329
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Speaker 1: our lives, we only talk about one parent. It can

330
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Speaker 1: change over time, but you try to sound on somebody

331
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Speaker 1: you ask somebody, Yeah, so what are your parents? People

332
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Speaker 1: will never talk about their parents. They will the minute

333
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Speaker 1: you dig into it. They only talk about one for

334
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Speaker 1: a while. So I would like you to give me

335
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Speaker 1: an asymmetrical parental theory of the jew Holcomb childhood.

336
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Speaker 2: I completely disagree with that theory.

337
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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that you only get only one mattered.

338
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Speaker 1: I'm saying that at any given moment, only one matters.

339
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Speaker 2: Yeah, in a particular story.

340
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Speaker 1: Right, So it may be from you know, in high

341
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Speaker 1: school it's only your mom, and then in college it's

342
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Speaker 1: only you.

343
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my parents are going to listen to this probably.

344
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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, that's the whole point.

345
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

346
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

347
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Speaker 2: I think we were actually talking earlier back backstage about

348
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Speaker 2: how as as dads, you sometimes get this free pass

349
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Speaker 2: that it's almost like, and I've seen this, I have

350
00:20:58,916 --> 00:21:01,996
Speaker 2: three children that, especially with my daughter, she sort of

351
00:21:01,996 --> 00:21:06,276
Speaker 2: defaults to dad, you're doing great, You're awesome, even if

352
00:21:06,676 --> 00:21:08,476
Speaker 2: my wife, Ellie has done all of the hard work

353
00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:11,596
Speaker 2: that day the parenting space. So with that said, I

354
00:21:11,596 --> 00:21:13,636
Speaker 2: think that that's probably true in a lot of ways

355
00:21:13,636 --> 00:21:15,436
Speaker 2: that my dad had sort of an outside influence.

356
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Speaker 1: What did your dad do well?

357
00:21:17,236 --> 00:21:21,516
Speaker 2: He was a dentist and then he hated it, so

358
00:21:21,556 --> 00:21:27,756
Speaker 2: he quit and became a financial advisor. Seriously true story.

359
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Speaker 1: This reminds me of one of my favorite stories about

360
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Speaker 1: a friend of mine whose dad was an investment banker,

361
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Speaker 1: and he once had a long heart to heart with

362
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Speaker 1: his daughter and my friend about how he felt his

363
00:21:44,316 --> 00:21:46,876
Speaker 1: career had been misspent and he made a series of

364
00:21:46,956 --> 00:21:48,996
Speaker 1: terrible choices and he had squattered his life in a

365
00:21:48,996 --> 00:21:51,636
Speaker 1: profession with no meaning. And she was very moved by

366
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Speaker 1: this because she didn't realize her father had this other side.

367
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Speaker 1: And she said, Dad, so what do you think you

368
00:21:55,916 --> 00:21:58,916
Speaker 1: should have been? And he says, I think I should

369
00:21:58,916 --> 00:22:06,516
Speaker 1: have been a tax attorney. That's kind of like what

370
00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:08,556
Speaker 1: you're hearing here is kind of like, but your dad did.

371
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Speaker 8: Yeah, well, he he said that he was just very

372
00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:18,076
Speaker 8: he was very sort of bored by the monotony of

373
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Speaker 8: dentistry and how he's he's he's very extrovert, and he

374
00:22:22,076 --> 00:22:24,436
Speaker 8: was trying to have conversations with people and they couldn't

375
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Speaker 8: because you know.

376
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Speaker 1: Oh, he was one of those annoying dentists who's like

377
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Speaker 1: asking you questions and you're six seventeen.

378
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Speaker 2: Well, and I think Honestly, I think it was a

379
00:22:33,876 --> 00:22:36,116
Speaker 2: It was a serious crossroads for him because he'd spent

380
00:22:36,156 --> 00:22:39,596
Speaker 2: he put himself through dental school selling jewelry out of

381
00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:42,916
Speaker 2: a tackle box. This is like he he worked his

382
00:22:43,116 --> 00:22:46,676
Speaker 2: way really hard to get himself this you know job,

383
00:22:46,876 --> 00:22:50,316
Speaker 2: and and this career. But then a decade in he

384
00:22:50,396 --> 00:22:54,356
Speaker 2: realized how much he really did not enjoy it and

385
00:22:54,996 --> 00:22:56,356
Speaker 2: found a way out of it. Took him. It was

386
00:22:56,516 --> 00:22:58,596
Speaker 2: it wasn't like an immediate transition. He went to one

387
00:22:58,636 --> 00:23:00,596
Speaker 2: day a week to doing the other thing, to two

388
00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:02,156
Speaker 2: days a week doing the other thing, to half and half,

389
00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:05,116
Speaker 2: and then eventually, when I was in high school, sold

390
00:23:05,116 --> 00:23:08,396
Speaker 2: this practice and went the full time the other direction.

391
00:23:08,876 --> 00:23:11,716
Speaker 2: He loved music and he had wanted to pursue music

392
00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:13,036
Speaker 2: in high school. He wanted to be in a like

393
00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:15,596
Speaker 2: a in a garage band. And his dad, who was

394
00:23:15,636 --> 00:23:19,596
Speaker 2: even more strict, you know than my parents' generation, basically

395
00:23:19,796 --> 00:23:21,956
Speaker 2: was the cutcher here. And don't you you know he

396
00:23:21,996 --> 00:23:24,396
Speaker 2: has a story, he says, he tells the story about

397
00:23:24,476 --> 00:23:26,956
Speaker 2: my grandfather. They're driving in the car and my grandfather

398
00:23:27,076 --> 00:23:31,716
Speaker 2: smoked cigarettes and non stop and Bill Withers lean on

399
00:23:31,756 --> 00:23:33,636
Speaker 2: me was on the radio and Dad was like fourteen

400
00:23:33,716 --> 00:23:36,236
Speaker 2: years old in the passenger seat, and it's that part

401
00:23:36,276 --> 00:23:39,236
Speaker 2: of the song where if you need a friend, call me,

402
00:23:40,476 --> 00:23:44,716
Speaker 2: you just call me. And my grandfather was a jazz guy.

403
00:23:44,756 --> 00:23:47,596
Speaker 2: He hated popular music. He said, finally takes a dragon

404
00:23:47,676 --> 00:23:49,716
Speaker 2: cigarette after about this, the seventh or eighth that called me,

405
00:23:49,716 --> 00:23:55,276
Speaker 2: and he goes, well, just call him, damn it. So

406
00:23:55,556 --> 00:23:58,836
Speaker 2: he had this like weird relationship where his father squashed

407
00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:04,996
Speaker 2: his creative dreams. And so I think when I sort

408
00:24:04,996 --> 00:24:10,596
Speaker 2: of showed interest in this, he he just launched fully

409
00:24:10,596 --> 00:24:13,196
Speaker 2: in with me. Oh really, yeah, you know the first

410
00:24:13,196 --> 00:24:16,836
Speaker 2: thing I told him I wanted to pursue music. I

411
00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:18,796
Speaker 2: had like an okay guitar and he's like, well, let's

412
00:24:18,836 --> 00:24:21,036
Speaker 2: go to the guitar shop. Let's get you. Let's get

413
00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:23,356
Speaker 2: you something nice. You know, if you're if you're really

414
00:24:23,396 --> 00:24:25,276
Speaker 2: gonna work hard at it, I'm in your corner.

415
00:24:25,436 --> 00:24:25,636
Speaker 1: Yeah.

416
00:24:25,636 --> 00:24:27,156
Speaker 2: That was his two rules, where if you're gonna work

417
00:24:27,196 --> 00:24:29,556
Speaker 2: hard at it, And then he said, and promise me

418
00:24:29,556 --> 00:24:31,556
Speaker 2: that if it's not working, you'll know when to walk

419
00:24:31,596 --> 00:24:33,036
Speaker 2: away and move on with your life. And he could

420
00:24:33,076 --> 00:24:35,956
Speaker 2: say that from experience because he walked away from something.

421
00:24:36,276 --> 00:24:38,316
Speaker 2: You know, he didn't just stick with the career that

422
00:24:38,356 --> 00:24:40,876
Speaker 2: he chose as a nineteen year old, really because he

423
00:24:40,876 --> 00:24:44,076
Speaker 2: started dental school. Back then, you didn't have to get

424
00:24:44,116 --> 00:24:45,476
Speaker 2: a college degree to go to dental school. You just

425
00:24:45,476 --> 00:24:47,396
Speaker 2: had to get the preres, which he did in three

426
00:24:47,396 --> 00:24:49,516
Speaker 2: semesters and then started dental school as a nineteen year old.

427
00:24:50,076 --> 00:24:52,116
Speaker 1: So did you play another song?

428
00:24:52,236 --> 00:25:00,556
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, all right, I'll uh since this is sort

429
00:25:00,556 --> 00:25:04,156
Speaker 2: of symmetrical. Asymmetrical, I'm gonna go down the street to

430
00:25:04,196 --> 00:25:09,796
Speaker 2: my grandparents' house. I grew up five doors down the

431
00:25:09,796 --> 00:25:13,476
Speaker 2: street from my grandfather, who was this sort of lion

432
00:25:14,076 --> 00:25:15,396
Speaker 2: of a man. He was a bit of a big

433
00:25:15,436 --> 00:25:19,756
Speaker 2: fish personality. He would tell these stories. He didn't know

434
00:25:19,796 --> 00:25:21,236
Speaker 2: how much of it was true and how much of

435
00:25:21,276 --> 00:25:26,756
Speaker 2: it was fiction. Lived a very interesting life. Was a surgeon,

436
00:25:27,876 --> 00:25:32,516
Speaker 2: was the chief of surgery in Tokyo immediately following World

437
00:25:32,516 --> 00:25:37,276
Speaker 2: War II. Operated on Admiral Dagano two weeks before he

438
00:25:37,356 --> 00:25:41,476
Speaker 2: was executed. Like, he just has these like wild stories

439
00:25:41,516 --> 00:25:43,996
Speaker 2: in his life, and one of them was that he

440
00:25:44,196 --> 00:25:46,036
Speaker 2: told the story about how he went to England with

441
00:25:46,116 --> 00:25:51,036
Speaker 2: his friend who raised Labrador retrievers, who got invited to

442
00:25:51,036 --> 00:25:54,836
Speaker 2: this dog trial at the Queens of State and so

443
00:25:54,876 --> 00:25:56,556
Speaker 2: he went, and he was very old and couldn't walk

444
00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:58,676
Speaker 2: around very well, and he came back with this wild

445
00:25:58,676 --> 00:26:01,676
Speaker 2: story about how he got to ride around the Queens

446
00:26:01,716 --> 00:26:04,436
Speaker 2: of State in the Queen's Land River with her driving it,

447
00:26:06,636 --> 00:26:08,636
Speaker 2: and we were all like, sure you know, sure you did.

448
00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:14,476
Speaker 2: And he passed away about six years later, and we

449
00:26:14,516 --> 00:26:19,276
Speaker 2: got a letter from the Queen Secretary sending her regrets

450
00:26:19,756 --> 00:26:22,276
Speaker 2: of his passing and sharing how much the Queen enjoyed

451
00:26:22,276 --> 00:26:27,916
Speaker 2: the day she spent with him driving around her estate

452
00:26:28,476 --> 00:26:29,236
Speaker 2: in her land Rover.

453
00:26:29,556 --> 00:26:32,356
Speaker 1: So there you go.

454
00:26:32,556 --> 00:26:34,916
Speaker 2: I wrote this song about him many years after he died.

455
00:26:36,156 --> 00:26:39,836
Speaker 2: He just had a huge influence on me, and songs

456
00:26:39,876 --> 00:26:40,596
Speaker 2: called dragons.

457
00:26:46,516 --> 00:26:47,796
Speaker 4: I was climbing a mountain.

458
00:26:49,876 --> 00:26:55,156
Speaker 5: A sleep in the moonlight goes to my Grandpaul came

459
00:26:55,236 --> 00:26:58,356
Speaker 5: to me in a dream, as.

460
00:26:58,236 --> 00:26:59,916
Speaker 2: A star was hung above us.

461
00:27:00,476 --> 00:27:02,916
Speaker 4: He started singing this chorus.

462
00:27:03,836 --> 00:27:07,836
Speaker 5: He laughed loud as head and said this to me,

463
00:27:09,756 --> 00:27:15,796
Speaker 5: take a few chances, a few early romances. Go swimming

464
00:27:15,916 --> 00:27:22,076
Speaker 5: in the ocean all New Year's Day. Don't listen to

465
00:27:22,356 --> 00:27:29,996
Speaker 5: the critics, Stand up bed witness, go slay all the dragons.

466
00:27:29,156 --> 00:27:31,116
Speaker 4: That stand in your wing.

467
00:27:36,476 --> 00:27:37,956
Speaker 2: He stayed up and talked until.

468
00:27:37,756 --> 00:27:41,156
Speaker 4: The sunrise of war and love and sorrow.

469
00:27:42,116 --> 00:27:47,116
Speaker 5: He said, stop spending all your money on forgiveness of sins.

470
00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:54,036
Speaker 5: Today's all you promised. Don't trouble with tomorrow. He faded

471
00:27:54,076 --> 00:27:58,356
Speaker 5: into the forest, proudly singing this hymn.

472
00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:02,156
Speaker 3: Take a few chances.

473
00:28:01,756 --> 00:28:07,956
Speaker 5: A few early rommances. Go swimming in the ocean all

474
00:28:08,156 --> 00:28:14,116
Speaker 5: New is Day. Don't listen to the critics, Stand up

475
00:28:14,556 --> 00:28:19,996
Speaker 5: bell Winness, Go slay off the dragons.

476
00:28:19,036 --> 00:28:21,196
Speaker 4: That standing r Roy.

477
00:28:47,356 --> 00:28:52,956
Speaker 5: Woke up with a fever, surrounded by lightning. All my

478
00:28:53,076 --> 00:28:58,676
Speaker 5: windows were open. I let the rain flooding. The past

479
00:28:58,796 --> 00:29:04,476
Speaker 5: felt like the present, with the future uncertain. A sing

480
00:29:04,876 --> 00:29:07,796
Speaker 5: like a spiral lost.

481
00:29:07,516 --> 00:29:11,276
Speaker 2: In the wind.

482
00:29:11,316 --> 00:29:16,156
Speaker 5: Take a few chances, do earthy romances.

483
00:29:16,556 --> 00:29:18,196
Speaker 3: Go swimming in the.

484
00:29:18,316 --> 00:29:21,956
Speaker 5: Ocean all New Year's Day.

485
00:29:22,316 --> 00:29:24,716
Speaker 3: Don't listen to the critics.

486
00:29:25,076 --> 00:29:29,596
Speaker 5: Stand up in bed Winness, Go slay all the.

487
00:29:29,636 --> 00:29:32,876
Speaker 9: Dragons that stand in your way.

488
00:29:33,716 --> 00:30:05,716
Speaker 10: Go slay the dragons that stand in your wamm.

489
00:29:53,716 --> 00:30:00,516
Speaker 1: Hmm, thank you, incredibly beautiful tribute.

490
00:30:00,796 --> 00:30:03,156
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, it's a beautiful man.

491
00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:13,556
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, and we're back. Let's talk a

492
00:30:13,596 --> 00:30:19,236
Speaker 1: little bit about the role of faith in your life

493
00:30:19,236 --> 00:30:22,836
Speaker 1: and work. Okay, yeah, So you grew up in a

494
00:30:22,876 --> 00:30:28,076
Speaker 1: very religious family. You went to seminary in Scotland. Tell

495
00:30:28,116 --> 00:30:30,276
Speaker 1: me about Yeah, I.

496
00:30:33,716 --> 00:30:36,916
Speaker 2: Think I've always sort of grown up. I think a

497
00:30:36,916 --> 00:30:38,196
Speaker 2: lot of people that grew up in a world that

498
00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:41,356
Speaker 2: I grew up in sort of either chose to just

499
00:30:41,756 --> 00:30:45,476
Speaker 2: join into that space as adults, or they sort of

500
00:30:45,636 --> 00:30:48,636
Speaker 2: run the other direction and go through a deconstruction phase

501
00:30:48,636 --> 00:30:52,516
Speaker 2: where they, you know, on a spectrum of sort of

502
00:30:52,716 --> 00:30:58,156
Speaker 2: kindness to full vitriol, they depart from that space. And

503
00:30:58,996 --> 00:31:01,516
Speaker 2: instead I tried to navigate sort of a third way,

504
00:31:01,556 --> 00:31:05,356
Speaker 2: which is I didn't have a personal experience with faith

505
00:31:05,476 --> 00:31:07,796
Speaker 2: that sort of mirrored what I was told it was

506
00:31:07,836 --> 00:31:10,676
Speaker 2: going to be like that it would bring all this

507
00:31:10,756 --> 00:31:13,836
Speaker 2: meaning and stuff to my life. And when I was seventeen,

508
00:31:13,876 --> 00:31:16,316
Speaker 2: my brother passed away. He was born a spine of

509
00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:19,276
Speaker 2: and had all sorts of health issues, but still suddenly

510
00:31:19,316 --> 00:31:20,716
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. I was out of the country when

511
00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:24,156
Speaker 2: it happened, on doing like a summer of Spanish immersion

512
00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:27,996
Speaker 2: in Themican Republic, and it passed away and got home.

513
00:31:28,396 --> 00:31:31,236
Speaker 2: All the sacraments and words and instruments and communities of

514
00:31:31,276 --> 00:31:36,676
Speaker 2: faith were sort of bubbled up in me, and it

515
00:31:36,716 --> 00:31:38,476
Speaker 2: wasn't making sense for me. So I had sort of

516
00:31:38,516 --> 00:31:42,676
Speaker 2: a crisis of faith, and instead of turning away from it,

517
00:31:43,236 --> 00:31:44,836
Speaker 2: I was still sort of trying to figure it out.

518
00:31:45,316 --> 00:31:47,236
Speaker 2: But music was really the thing that kind of helped

519
00:31:47,276 --> 00:31:49,476
Speaker 2: me make sense of my life. I'll never forget. There

520
00:31:49,476 --> 00:31:53,116
Speaker 2: were two records in particular in that era. One was

521
00:31:53,316 --> 00:31:56,396
Speaker 2: Van Morrison's Moondance. The other one was David Gray's White

522
00:31:56,476 --> 00:32:00,676
Speaker 2: Ladder that I would just drive in my car and

523
00:32:00,716 --> 00:32:04,196
Speaker 2: just listening to records and sob and those records weren't

524
00:32:04,196 --> 00:32:06,916
Speaker 2: even necessarily about grief, but they were grief records for me.

525
00:32:09,276 --> 00:32:12,836
Speaker 2: But I also didn't My experience with faith and the

526
00:32:12,836 --> 00:32:16,076
Speaker 2: faith community was that while I was struggling to believe

527
00:32:16,116 --> 00:32:17,996
Speaker 2: what they told me was the right thing to believe,

528
00:32:18,076 --> 00:32:20,236
Speaker 2: I also was experiencing a lot of love and affection

529
00:32:20,316 --> 00:32:22,716
Speaker 2: from them and had from a young age. And so

530
00:32:23,196 --> 00:32:25,916
Speaker 2: a lot of people's hurt and deconstruction is fed off

531
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:30,436
Speaker 2: of abuse or mistreatment or you know, And that was

532
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:32,516
Speaker 2: not my experience, and so I couldn't have that same

533
00:32:32,556 --> 00:32:36,636
Speaker 2: sort of departure because I was loved well. And so

534
00:32:36,676 --> 00:32:38,676
Speaker 2: it's created this really interesting tension in me because I

535
00:32:38,716 --> 00:32:41,996
Speaker 2: was also expanding the way my worldview is expanding in

536
00:32:42,076 --> 00:32:44,876
Speaker 2: ways that didn't line up with a lot of what

537
00:32:44,916 --> 00:32:48,916
Speaker 2: I grew up around. But also we're talking about it.

538
00:32:48,916 --> 00:32:50,836
Speaker 2: You know, it's easy to lump people into these categories,

539
00:32:50,876 --> 00:32:53,196
Speaker 2: and really the spectrum of people who helped raise me,

540
00:32:53,676 --> 00:32:56,116
Speaker 2: they all have different different sort of spectrum of beliefs

541
00:32:56,116 --> 00:33:01,556
Speaker 2: about different things, whether cultural, cosmic, theological, cultural, political, et cetera.

542
00:33:01,676 --> 00:33:04,956
Speaker 2: So I don't want to sort of speak about that

543
00:33:05,036 --> 00:33:11,116
Speaker 2: community as one monolith. But but at the same time,

544
00:33:12,396 --> 00:33:14,756
Speaker 2: what I was finding and who I was becoming was

545
00:33:14,796 --> 00:33:17,876
Speaker 2: getting farther from that. And part of the way I

546
00:33:18,156 --> 00:33:20,196
Speaker 2: part of that was going to seminary. I went to Scotland.

547
00:33:21,756 --> 00:33:23,796
Speaker 2: They had a program at St. Andrews University. I could

548
00:33:23,796 --> 00:33:26,716
Speaker 2: go for two weeks a semester twice a year and

549
00:33:26,756 --> 00:33:29,916
Speaker 2: then write my papers. And so, you know, I was

550
00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:32,716
Speaker 2: just I was searching, but I was enjoying the search.

551
00:33:32,756 --> 00:33:34,036
Speaker 2: You know. It was like it was less of a

552
00:33:34,156 --> 00:33:37,556
Speaker 2: like frantic looking for the lost keys when you're trying

553
00:33:37,556 --> 00:33:38,556
Speaker 2: to get out of the house, and more of a

554
00:33:38,676 --> 00:33:41,276
Speaker 2: like I just want to keep looking at them, finding

555
00:33:41,316 --> 00:33:43,156
Speaker 2: a lot of interesting things. I'm reading a lot of

556
00:33:43,156 --> 00:33:48,796
Speaker 2: interesting people just allowed myself to engage in reading and

557
00:33:48,796 --> 00:33:52,356
Speaker 2: in music and in ways that was sort of open

558
00:33:52,396 --> 00:33:54,356
Speaker 2: to it instead of looking for a fight. And that's

559
00:33:54,356 --> 00:33:55,956
Speaker 2: sort of the way I would say that I was

560
00:33:56,036 --> 00:33:59,996
Speaker 2: raised is that the church in that era, the school

561
00:34:00,076 --> 00:34:02,996
Speaker 2: that I went to, was a wall, and it was

562
00:34:02,996 --> 00:34:04,636
Speaker 2: more of a wall and less of a bridge. It's

563
00:34:04,636 --> 00:34:08,396
Speaker 2: more about protecting the flock instead of building a bridge

564
00:34:08,476 --> 00:34:10,836
Speaker 2: to the world. And I would say my faith now

565
00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:12,836
Speaker 2: is much more of like, I just want to be

566
00:34:12,836 --> 00:34:16,916
Speaker 2: a bridge builder. But I haven't necessarily, I haven't rejected

567
00:34:16,916 --> 00:34:19,636
Speaker 2: some of the sort of central teachings of Christian Orthodoxy,

568
00:34:19,796 --> 00:34:24,156
Speaker 2: but I have certainly rejected sort of American evangelical culture

569
00:34:25,596 --> 00:34:28,916
Speaker 2: and has cost me a lot of fans. But that's okay.

570
00:34:29,316 --> 00:34:31,556
Speaker 1: Memphis to Scotland is a long way.

571
00:34:31,756 --> 00:34:35,196
Speaker 2: Yeah. My senior high school English teacher took a trip

572
00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:37,876
Speaker 2: every year to the UK. In the first place we

573
00:34:37,916 --> 00:34:41,916
Speaker 2: went with Scotland, and that immediately within three days on

574
00:34:41,956 --> 00:34:43,236
Speaker 2: that trip, I sai, I'm going to study abroad.

575
00:34:43,276 --> 00:34:43,516
Speaker 1: Here.

576
00:34:43,716 --> 00:34:49,756
Speaker 2: This place is Edinburgh's just this wonderland. And you know,

577
00:34:49,756 --> 00:34:54,956
Speaker 2: I loved English literature, I loved English history, you know,

578
00:34:54,956 --> 00:34:57,836
Speaker 2: and honestly, like the South was settled by Scots, so

579
00:34:58,436 --> 00:34:59,956
Speaker 2: a lot of it, you know. So there was like

580
00:35:01,556 --> 00:35:05,036
Speaker 2: when Braveheart came out, every Southerner in the world was like, yeah.

581
00:35:04,636 --> 00:35:10,116
Speaker 1: You know, was there anything about the of Scotland that

582
00:35:10,156 --> 00:35:10,596
Speaker 1: appealed to.

583
00:35:11,156 --> 00:35:12,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a There was a There was a

584
00:35:12,916 --> 00:35:17,996
Speaker 2: pub down the street from my flat, Sandy Bell was

585
00:35:18,036 --> 00:35:20,836
Speaker 2: the name of it. And every night they had traditional

586
00:35:21,476 --> 00:35:25,756
Speaker 2: Scottish music, you know, people playing instruments that I didn't

587
00:35:25,756 --> 00:35:27,476
Speaker 2: even know what they were, but they put these traditional

588
00:35:27,556 --> 00:35:30,636
Speaker 2: Scottish folk songs and they're always in with Loch Loman.

589
00:35:31,116 --> 00:35:34,076
Speaker 5: You take the high Rule and I'll take the little Rule,

590
00:35:34,156 --> 00:35:37,716
Speaker 5: and I'll be in Scottland before Aria for me and

591
00:35:37,756 --> 00:35:40,636
Speaker 5: my true lover, and they're to meet again on the

592
00:35:40,676 --> 00:35:43,476
Speaker 5: Bonnie Bonnie banks of Lochlomond.

593
00:35:44,956 --> 00:35:46,916
Speaker 2: I was like, that's in the corner, crying about me

594
00:35:46,996 --> 00:35:49,316
Speaker 2: and this mythical woman I'm gonna meet at the Bonnie

595
00:35:49,316 --> 00:35:50,196
Speaker 2: Banks of Loch Loman.

596
00:35:52,236 --> 00:35:53,596
Speaker 1: Scottish accent's pretty good.

597
00:35:54,556 --> 00:35:56,556
Speaker 2: They got a lot of practice my kids. My kids

598
00:35:56,556 --> 00:35:58,956
Speaker 2: are always asking for it. But there's something about the

599
00:35:58,956 --> 00:36:03,756
Speaker 2: Scottish weather in the story that sort of that's where

600
00:36:03,756 --> 00:36:08,396
Speaker 2: I started writing songs. I was still sort of in

601
00:36:08,436 --> 00:36:14,076
Speaker 2: the throes of my grief, and I was trying to

602
00:36:14,116 --> 00:36:19,236
Speaker 2: process that grief. And so as a student, I decided

603
00:36:19,316 --> 00:36:22,836
Speaker 2: my senior thesis at in my program was going to

604
00:36:22,876 --> 00:36:27,356
Speaker 2: be an oral history about my brother's life and death

605
00:36:28,756 --> 00:36:31,436
Speaker 2: from everybody that knew him, and sort of the question was,

606
00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:38,476
Speaker 2: why does a severely handicapped child have such like so,

607
00:36:38,516 --> 00:36:40,156
Speaker 2: because when he passed away, there were like two thousand

608
00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:42,836
Speaker 2: people at the funeral. Two Yeah, there were like one

609
00:36:42,876 --> 00:36:44,876
Speaker 2: hundred nurses from the hospital that had met him over

610
00:36:44,876 --> 00:36:48,596
Speaker 2: the last fifteen years came and the entire elementary school

611
00:36:48,596 --> 00:36:50,276
Speaker 2: he went to had a day out of school and

612
00:36:50,276 --> 00:36:50,836
Speaker 2: they all came.

613
00:36:52,676 --> 00:36:52,836
Speaker 1: Yeah.

614
00:36:52,836 --> 00:36:56,316
Speaker 2: It was this incredible celebration of a very short but

615
00:36:56,436 --> 00:37:01,836
Speaker 2: very sort of thorough life. And so my sort of

616
00:37:01,836 --> 00:37:04,476
Speaker 2: analytical side of my brain with the creative side of

617
00:37:04,476 --> 00:37:05,916
Speaker 2: my brain was like, what if I just wrote an

618
00:37:05,996 --> 00:37:09,076
Speaker 2: oral history of his life and interviewed this doctors, teacher,

619
00:37:09,276 --> 00:37:11,996
Speaker 2: his neighbors, his cousins, and why did Jay matter so

620
00:37:12,076 --> 00:37:14,196
Speaker 2: much to you? So I was working on that in

621
00:37:14,196 --> 00:37:17,636
Speaker 2: Scotland and that's when I started writing songs because I

622
00:37:17,676 --> 00:37:19,836
Speaker 2: didn't really know anybody. I always say that at that

623
00:37:19,876 --> 00:37:22,676
Speaker 2: time I was alone. I wasn't necessarily lonely, but I

624
00:37:22,756 --> 00:37:26,436
Speaker 2: was alone, and I had taken my guitar and I

625
00:37:26,476 --> 00:37:29,156
Speaker 2: just started writing. And when I got back home from

626
00:37:29,236 --> 00:37:32,676
Speaker 2: that semester, started playing these songs for some friends, and

627
00:37:33,036 --> 00:37:37,196
Speaker 2: I think they were all expecting something completely different from

628
00:37:37,196 --> 00:37:40,316
Speaker 2: my life. I got laughed out a couple times before

629
00:37:40,316 --> 00:37:42,676
Speaker 2: the song's like, wait, you wrote songs. I know you

630
00:37:42,676 --> 00:37:45,196
Speaker 2: play music, but like, aren't you going to be like

631
00:37:45,396 --> 00:37:49,756
Speaker 2: history lawyer guy or something? And I'm playing these songs,

632
00:37:49,796 --> 00:37:50,156
Speaker 2: They're like.

633
00:37:50,076 --> 00:37:52,476
Speaker 1: Oh, these are What's the first song you wrote that

634
00:37:52,556 --> 00:37:53,956
Speaker 1: you were proud of?

635
00:37:54,396 --> 00:37:57,716
Speaker 2: A song called Nightingale that I don't remember, but I

636
00:37:57,756 --> 00:38:04,876
Speaker 2: do remember it being about my then friend and much

637
00:38:04,956 --> 00:38:07,676
Speaker 2: later became my wife, Ellie. But it was a it

638
00:38:07,716 --> 00:38:10,116
Speaker 2: was a heartbreak song because she she had sort of

639
00:38:11,916 --> 00:38:13,796
Speaker 2: ripped the heart from my chest in that era of

640
00:38:13,836 --> 00:38:14,276
Speaker 2: my life.

641
00:38:14,436 --> 00:38:17,756
Speaker 1: So is that why you don't remember it?

642
00:38:17,836 --> 00:38:20,636
Speaker 2: It's just a yeah, I got to move on from

643
00:38:20,636 --> 00:38:21,076
Speaker 2: that song.

644
00:38:21,556 --> 00:38:24,036
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't have forgotten all of it.

645
00:38:24,396 --> 00:38:32,236
Speaker 2: No, I mean that was something like, well, okay, this

646
00:38:32,356 --> 00:38:41,956
Speaker 2: is embarrassing. I do remember the first line, Cinderella was

647
00:38:41,996 --> 00:38:43,316
Speaker 2: a fairy tale.

648
00:38:45,676 --> 00:38:47,156
Speaker 3: One, that's true.

649
00:38:49,916 --> 00:38:51,436
Speaker 2: I don't remember where it went after that. But there

650
00:38:51,476 --> 00:38:58,076
Speaker 2: was something about she sang like a nightingale something, something

651
00:38:58,156 --> 00:38:59,236
Speaker 2: that rhymes with true.

652
00:39:01,836 --> 00:39:04,836
Speaker 1: Wait, did you play this for her after she broke

653
00:39:04,916 --> 00:39:05,236
Speaker 1: up with you?

654
00:39:05,596 --> 00:39:08,516
Speaker 2: Well, you made an assumption there that we dated in

655
00:39:08,516 --> 00:39:09,036
Speaker 2: the first place.

656
00:39:09,396 --> 00:39:14,396
Speaker 1: Oh, at what point in the trajectory of you and

657
00:39:14,396 --> 00:39:15,676
Speaker 1: Ellie did she hear that song?

658
00:39:16,356 --> 00:39:17,996
Speaker 2: I mean pretty soon after I wrote it, But I

659
00:39:17,996 --> 00:39:19,636
Speaker 2: didn't tell her it was about her, you know.

660
00:39:20,676 --> 00:39:21,596
Speaker 1: She didn't figure it out.

661
00:39:21,756 --> 00:39:24,676
Speaker 2: No, she did not. Oh, come on, well that's according

662
00:39:24,676 --> 00:39:27,956
Speaker 2: to her. That's you've talked to her about that. But yeah,

663
00:39:27,996 --> 00:39:30,356
Speaker 2: so that I mean, that was That was the first

664
00:39:30,356 --> 00:39:32,876
Speaker 2: song I sang. And I was playing it like for

665
00:39:32,956 --> 00:39:35,276
Speaker 2: my buddies in college in college, and they're like, that's

666
00:39:35,276 --> 00:39:38,556
Speaker 2: pretty good, you know. But that that was before Scotland.

667
00:39:38,596 --> 00:39:40,676
Speaker 2: That was the first song I wrote, and Scotland's we

668
00:39:40,716 --> 00:39:43,836
Speaker 2: started writing songs that I I don't know, just something

669
00:39:43,876 --> 00:39:45,916
Speaker 2: started to click, but really I didn't. It took me.

670
00:39:47,156 --> 00:39:50,556
Speaker 2: I moved quickly into sort of what I would call

671
00:39:50,596 --> 00:39:55,676
Speaker 2: my twenty to twenty three year old Steve Earld Bruce Springsteen,

672
00:39:55,756 --> 00:39:59,916
Speaker 2: Ryan Adams imitation phase, where I was really trying to

673
00:40:00,076 --> 00:40:06,796
Speaker 2: write the rugged third person minor chord songs and it

674
00:40:06,836 --> 00:40:08,916
Speaker 2: wasn't me, but I needed to do that to find

675
00:40:09,596 --> 00:40:12,876
Speaker 2: to find my path. But none of those songs are

676
00:40:12,956 --> 00:40:13,996
Speaker 2: available on the internet.

677
00:40:14,076 --> 00:40:18,116
Speaker 1: Which Spruce, Which Spruce Springsteen? There are many Bruce Springsteen's.

678
00:40:18,116 --> 00:40:19,716
Speaker 1: Which is your favorite Bruce Springsteen?

679
00:40:20,356 --> 00:40:23,116
Speaker 2: Well, my favorite Bruce Springsteen is Greetings from Raspberry Park

680
00:40:23,876 --> 00:40:26,396
Speaker 2: Bruce Springsteen. But I like them all. But the one

681
00:40:26,436 --> 00:40:28,796
Speaker 2: I was imitating was like the Nebraska Tom.

682
00:40:28,956 --> 00:40:31,636
Speaker 1: Say, Nebraska. Yeah, I want to talk about Nebraska for

683
00:40:31,676 --> 00:40:35,476
Speaker 1: a moment. I because I was obsessed with that record.

684
00:40:35,756 --> 00:40:36,356
Speaker 2: Yeah.

685
00:40:36,396 --> 00:40:39,356
Speaker 1: And you know it's funny because music like that doesn't

686
00:40:39,396 --> 00:40:44,196
Speaker 1: just influence musicians, it influences writers.

687
00:40:44,596 --> 00:40:44,876
Speaker 2: Yeah.

688
00:40:44,916 --> 00:40:47,836
Speaker 1: And the song that I always came back to was

689
00:40:49,996 --> 00:40:51,956
Speaker 1: I know it's called but it's the one about the

690
00:40:51,956 --> 00:40:53,476
Speaker 1: guy who's a police officer.

691
00:40:53,556 --> 00:40:54,276
Speaker 2: How a patrolman?

692
00:40:54,436 --> 00:40:55,196
Speaker 1: Hwre you patrolman?

693
00:40:55,356 --> 00:40:56,876
Speaker 2: I played that song one hundred times.

694
00:40:57,036 --> 00:40:59,116
Speaker 1: Man turns this back on his family. He just ain't

695
00:40:59,156 --> 00:41:01,796
Speaker 1: no good, he just ain't no good. That was like

696
00:41:03,916 --> 00:41:08,476
Speaker 1: as a kind of template for writing an emotionally powerful story.

697
00:41:09,476 --> 00:41:11,556
Speaker 1: It's just stuck in my head, it was. It's so

698
00:41:12,076 --> 00:41:15,196
Speaker 1: that song is so beautifully constructed. Well, can you do

699
00:41:15,236 --> 00:41:17,236
Speaker 1: you can you can you remember any of it? I

700
00:41:17,236 --> 00:41:17,556
Speaker 1: can play.

701
00:41:17,636 --> 00:41:19,756
Speaker 2: I can play the chorus probably, yeah, pay the chorus.

702
00:41:21,076 --> 00:41:23,036
Speaker 1: For those who don't know the song, this is it's

703
00:41:23,196 --> 00:41:25,956
Speaker 1: I think it's one of his finest songs.

704
00:41:28,036 --> 00:41:28,756
Speaker 2: I can do a part of it.

705
00:41:29,316 --> 00:41:31,156
Speaker 4: My name is Joe Roberts.

706
00:41:33,356 --> 00:41:34,676
Speaker 2: I work for the State.

707
00:41:36,076 --> 00:41:40,796
Speaker 5: Sergeant out of Burdenville, Bear Snumber.

708
00:41:46,316 --> 00:41:47,676
Speaker 1: I've always been an honest man.

709
00:41:47,636 --> 00:41:49,796
Speaker 2: An honest man, honest as that.

710
00:41:52,876 --> 00:41:56,156
Speaker 5: My brother named Frankie, and Frankie ain't no good?

711
00:41:56,916 --> 00:41:58,156
Speaker 1: Is it bad that I sing along.

712
00:42:00,196 --> 00:42:03,476
Speaker 2: As the audience I don't know, but then you know

713
00:42:03,556 --> 00:42:03,996
Speaker 2: goes on.

714
00:42:05,116 --> 00:42:06,796
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're laughing, drinking.

715
00:42:07,836 --> 00:42:13,116
Speaker 5: Nothing feels better than blood on, blood, taking turns, dancing

716
00:42:13,196 --> 00:42:14,076
Speaker 5: with Maria.

717
00:42:15,196 --> 00:42:18,476
Speaker 4: The band plays now that you Flood.

718
00:42:20,276 --> 00:42:21,956
Speaker 1: Catch him w straight again?

719
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:26,436
Speaker 3: Yep, any brother would do teach you how to walk

720
00:42:26,436 --> 00:42:26,756
Speaker 3: that line.

721
00:42:26,796 --> 00:42:27,836
Speaker 2: It's two different courses.

722
00:42:27,956 --> 00:42:30,116
Speaker 1: Oh right, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

723
00:42:31,116 --> 00:42:33,756
Speaker 5: Because because my favorite is uh like any like any

724
00:42:33,796 --> 00:42:34,796
Speaker 5: brother would.

725
00:42:36,516 --> 00:42:39,956
Speaker 2: Uh man turns his back on his family. Well, he

726
00:42:40,196 --> 00:42:41,436
Speaker 2: just ain't no good.

727
00:42:42,476 --> 00:42:42,596
Speaker 5: Uh.

728
00:42:42,636 --> 00:42:46,596
Speaker 2: And then there's this, uh that line to me that

729
00:42:46,596 --> 00:42:48,156
Speaker 2: that song. I love it song for a lot of

730
00:42:48,196 --> 00:42:50,516
Speaker 2: different reasons. If you know, I'll just the song has

731
00:42:50,516 --> 00:42:54,156
Speaker 2: been out for forty years, so I spoiler alert basically,

732
00:42:55,076 --> 00:42:59,476
Speaker 2: you know this this the narrator is a state trooper

733
00:42:59,596 --> 00:43:03,396
Speaker 2: higher patrolman, and his brother's a mess and he ends

734
00:43:03,476 --> 00:43:07,596
Speaker 2: up injuring possibly killing somebody in a bar fight, and

735
00:43:07,636 --> 00:43:10,116
Speaker 2: he gets called into the scene. I was his own brother,

736
00:43:10,436 --> 00:43:12,796
Speaker 2: and his brother he's chasing him out of the state

737
00:43:12,916 --> 00:43:17,676
Speaker 2: in Michigan, and and he lets him go into Canada,

738
00:43:18,316 --> 00:43:21,236
Speaker 2: you know, and lets him escape, and then he ends

739
00:43:21,236 --> 00:43:24,196
Speaker 2: with that course and turns it back on his family.

740
00:43:24,276 --> 00:43:27,596
Speaker 2: He just say no good and uh, my brother, who's

741
00:43:27,596 --> 00:43:30,676
Speaker 2: now been eight years sober. There was a lot of

742
00:43:30,716 --> 00:43:33,076
Speaker 2: years where that was like that was our dynamic.

743
00:43:33,556 --> 00:43:33,716
Speaker 5: You know.

744
00:43:33,916 --> 00:43:38,636
Speaker 2: I was the good rule following successful big brother and

745
00:43:38,676 --> 00:43:42,676
Speaker 2: he was the you know, he didn't mind me saying that.

746
00:43:42,756 --> 00:43:45,276
Speaker 2: We were very close, but he turned his life around.

747
00:43:45,276 --> 00:43:47,036
Speaker 2: But I thought that was gonna be my life. Was like,

748
00:43:47,236 --> 00:43:50,436
Speaker 2: I'm gonna lose him to his vice. And so I

749
00:43:50,556 --> 00:43:52,916
Speaker 2: play that song on nights when I hadn't heard from him,

750
00:43:52,996 --> 00:43:55,036
Speaker 2: and I love that song.

751
00:43:55,396 --> 00:43:57,716
Speaker 1: There's a lot of emotion in here.

752
00:43:57,236 --> 00:43:59,876
Speaker 2: A lot of emotion in here in no in you.

753
00:44:00,116 --> 00:44:06,236
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think that is a compliment.

754
00:44:07,436 --> 00:44:10,116
Speaker 1: I did not just folks made I know this, but

755
00:44:10,196 --> 00:44:13,236
Speaker 1: we June I met a couple of months back then.

756
00:44:13,276 --> 00:44:16,116
Speaker 1: They're doing this thing which can't be described.

757
00:44:17,556 --> 00:44:19,516
Speaker 2: And it's a form of a variety show.

758
00:44:19,556 --> 00:44:21,236
Speaker 1: A variety show. We hung out together. It was on

759
00:44:21,276 --> 00:44:24,116
Speaker 1: the bus with Drew, among other things, and you said something.

760
00:44:24,116 --> 00:44:26,756
Speaker 1: There are a series of things. I didn't know anything

761
00:44:26,756 --> 00:44:32,036
Speaker 1: about you, and you said something to me that just

762
00:44:33,276 --> 00:44:37,956
Speaker 1: so surprised me, and I would you said that. You

763
00:44:38,076 --> 00:44:43,836
Speaker 1: just talked about how you have it. You have you

764
00:44:43,916 --> 00:44:50,676
Speaker 1: get angry. Yeah, And I didn't see that. I didn't

765
00:44:50,676 --> 00:44:53,516
Speaker 1: see that in you, And I was so surprised to

766
00:44:53,556 --> 00:44:53,876
Speaker 1: hear that.

767
00:44:55,956 --> 00:44:57,796
Speaker 2: I was sort of talk growing up that anger is bad,

768
00:44:58,396 --> 00:45:01,356
Speaker 2: you know that. What I've since learned is that anger

769
00:45:01,396 --> 00:45:03,156
Speaker 2: is not bad. It's rage that's bad, which just like

770
00:45:03,196 --> 00:45:04,916
Speaker 2: sort of the that's not going to get all counselate

771
00:45:04,996 --> 00:45:06,796
Speaker 2: on you guys, But that's been a big part of

772
00:45:06,836 --> 00:45:09,036
Speaker 2: my journey as a as a person and as a music.

773
00:45:10,676 --> 00:45:12,716
Speaker 2: It's not the anger that's bad. Angers like the red light,

774
00:45:12,956 --> 00:45:14,836
Speaker 2: you know, it's what you do with it. And so

775
00:45:14,876 --> 00:45:18,516
Speaker 2: I've learned, instead of getting sort of physically upset, is

776
00:45:18,516 --> 00:45:20,596
Speaker 2: to go, I'm so angry, what is it. It's usually

777
00:45:20,636 --> 00:45:24,036
Speaker 2: some sort of injustice. Either it's me or the world,

778
00:45:24,076 --> 00:45:28,196
Speaker 2: or my neighbor or my family, or is it's it's

779
00:45:28,236 --> 00:45:31,396
Speaker 2: your yellow light that's flashing that you're lonely or sad

780
00:45:31,556 --> 00:45:36,396
Speaker 2: or hurt. And so I've learned that it's like my superpower.

781
00:45:36,756 --> 00:45:38,396
Speaker 2: Like when I'm angry, I know that I know that

782
00:45:38,396 --> 00:45:40,996
Speaker 2: I've got to figure out what's going on instead of

783
00:45:41,036 --> 00:45:43,236
Speaker 2: trying to tamp it down.

784
00:45:43,836 --> 00:45:46,916
Speaker 1: You know, have you ever written what is your what

785
00:45:46,996 --> 00:45:49,596
Speaker 1: is the angriest song? I have an idea that you've

786
00:45:49,596 --> 00:45:50,116
Speaker 1: ever written.

787
00:45:50,596 --> 00:45:54,756
Speaker 2: Oh, that's great. It's a song called Ring the Bells. Yes, okay,

788
00:45:54,796 --> 00:45:55,316
Speaker 2: you want to hear it?

789
00:45:55,516 --> 00:45:58,316
Speaker 1: Yeah? Wait, you got to give the context. Yeah.

790
00:45:58,316 --> 00:46:04,996
Speaker 2: I wrote this song with my I wrote this song

791
00:46:05,156 --> 00:46:08,756
Speaker 2: with my friends Avener and Amanda Ramirez. Avener as a

792
00:46:08,756 --> 00:46:12,996
Speaker 2: Cuban American, Aman is an African American. We wrote the

793
00:46:13,036 --> 00:46:22,436
Speaker 2: song together, I think three days after Charlottesville White Supremacy Rally,

794
00:46:23,716 --> 00:46:27,316
Speaker 2: when some very famous sort of American Christians were both

795
00:46:27,356 --> 00:46:30,876
Speaker 2: sides in the situation, and we got real pisted and

796
00:46:30,916 --> 00:46:31,836
Speaker 2: wrote this song together.

797
00:46:41,636 --> 00:46:44,396
Speaker 5: Ring the Bells this time, I mean it did the

798
00:46:44,436 --> 00:46:48,676
Speaker 5: hatred very well. Give back the pieces of my Jesus

799
00:46:48,676 --> 00:46:50,596
Speaker 5: to take your counterfeit to hell.

800
00:46:51,196 --> 00:46:52,356
Speaker 3: Thank the drums.

801
00:46:52,476 --> 00:46:56,196
Speaker 5: This means war, not the kind you waiting for. We

802
00:46:56,316 --> 00:47:00,196
Speaker 5: say mercy won't be rationed here. It's what we're fighting for.

803
00:47:01,196 --> 00:47:04,196
Speaker 3: Their fall is fair in love and war. Then what

804
00:47:04,316 --> 00:47:04,956
Speaker 3: the hell is.

805
00:47:05,116 --> 00:47:05,996
Speaker 1: Love even for?

806
00:47:10,916 --> 00:47:13,956
Speaker 5: If we can't sing it loud enough, we'll keep on

807
00:47:14,196 --> 00:47:14,796
Speaker 5: at anymore?

808
00:47:17,876 --> 00:47:23,396
Speaker 4: Ring ring, ring.

809
00:47:25,196 --> 00:47:31,156
Speaker 2: Ring, Just a little bit of it.

810
00:47:34,476 --> 00:47:39,236
Speaker 1: That's that's what I That's the one I had in mind.

811
00:47:40,036 --> 00:47:42,156
Speaker 2: I was, we were I was very angry when I

812
00:47:42,156 --> 00:47:43,756
Speaker 2: wrote that song. Felt good.

813
00:47:44,516 --> 00:47:50,316
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, it's it's you're you. You play it

814
00:47:50,356 --> 00:47:51,276
Speaker 1: like a man possessed.

815
00:47:54,036 --> 00:47:56,236
Speaker 2: Well, I was watching Daniel Tiger one time with my daughter,

816
00:47:56,836 --> 00:47:58,116
Speaker 2: and there was.

817
00:47:58,276 --> 00:48:01,476
Speaker 1: I just loved to segue from yea possessed to someone

818
00:48:01,476 --> 00:48:02,116
Speaker 1: who there's a lot of.

819
00:48:03,436 --> 00:48:06,636
Speaker 2: Well, it's very it's very related to what we're talking about.

820
00:48:07,156 --> 00:48:10,756
Speaker 2: So there's the scene where Dane gets up and the

821
00:48:10,796 --> 00:48:12,956
Speaker 2: mom says, okay, Dan, we'na learn a song if you

822
00:48:12,996 --> 00:48:15,756
Speaker 2: feel so mad that you want to roar, take a

823
00:48:15,796 --> 00:48:19,676
Speaker 2: deep breath, then count to four. And I was like,

824
00:48:19,996 --> 00:48:23,396
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Emmy Lou, she's four years old. I'm like,

825
00:48:23,436 --> 00:48:27,956
Speaker 2: that's not always true. Sometimes what you need to.

826
00:48:27,916 --> 00:48:30,636
Speaker 11: Do when you feel so mad that you want to roar,

827
00:48:30,836 --> 00:48:38,716
Speaker 11: take a deep breath, Yes, get it out, don't stuff

828
00:48:38,716 --> 00:48:39,636
Speaker 11: that stuff inside of you.

829
00:48:40,436 --> 00:48:43,036
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with drews answers to the homework

830
00:48:43,036 --> 00:48:45,316
Speaker 1: assignment I gave him. I asked him to come up

831
00:48:45,356 --> 00:48:48,756
Speaker 1: with his five favorite country songs of all time so

832
00:48:48,796 --> 00:48:56,876
Speaker 1: he could compare his list to mine. And we're back.

833
00:48:57,556 --> 00:48:59,956
Speaker 1: Can we talk. Let's talk about musical influences for a moment.

834
00:49:00,036 --> 00:49:02,116
Speaker 1: Let's start with Amy Lou Harris. I would love to

835
00:49:02,436 --> 00:49:06,956
Speaker 1: when we were thinking about this evening about our list

836
00:49:06,956 --> 00:49:12,076
Speaker 1: of iconic country songs, and one of my one of

837
00:49:12,156 --> 00:49:17,076
Speaker 1: on my list is Boulder of Birmingham. Do you know that? No,

838
00:49:17,716 --> 00:49:22,756
Speaker 1: that's the that is uh. It is the one of

839
00:49:22,796 --> 00:49:27,556
Speaker 1: the few songwriting credits she has on her first I

840
00:49:27,556 --> 00:49:29,836
Speaker 1: think she only has one songwriting credit on her first

841
00:49:29,876 --> 00:49:33,476
Speaker 1: nine albums, and that's Bouldered Birmingham, which she writes about

842
00:49:33,476 --> 00:49:37,076
Speaker 1: Graham Parsons. Oh yeah, and it is. Actually we're going

843
00:49:37,156 --> 00:49:39,956
Speaker 1: to play a little bit of it. It is the

844
00:49:39,996 --> 00:49:46,796
Speaker 1: most just play the first little like it's so heart

845
00:49:46,836 --> 00:49:52,916
Speaker 1: wrenchingly beautiful. And the I mentioned only because we were

846
00:49:52,916 --> 00:49:55,956
Speaker 1: talking about grief and about emotion. It is a song.

847
00:49:55,996 --> 00:49:59,956
Speaker 1: It's a song about grief, and it's the articulation of

848
00:49:59,996 --> 00:50:07,716
Speaker 1: her sense of loss and longing. Is just perfect. Anyway

849
00:50:07,916 --> 00:50:10,636
Speaker 1: here it is. I think I will run.

850
00:50:13,516 --> 00:50:14,236
Speaker 3: In the close.

851
00:50:17,276 --> 00:50:18,276
Speaker 4: I would hold my.

852
00:50:20,996 --> 00:50:22,956
Speaker 10: Any say, race.

853
00:50:26,796 --> 00:50:34,316
Speaker 3: Away from bolted be give about actcy.

854
00:50:35,956 --> 00:50:39,276
Speaker 2: Act see.

855
00:50:40,716 --> 00:50:43,596
Speaker 1: I would walk all the way from Boulder to Birmingham

856
00:50:44,116 --> 00:50:46,876
Speaker 1: if I thought I could see, I could see your face.

857
00:50:47,636 --> 00:50:53,156
Speaker 1: That's her, the way she articulates her sense of loss.

858
00:50:53,836 --> 00:50:55,436
Speaker 2: She sings with so much ache too.

859
00:50:55,876 --> 00:50:58,916
Speaker 1: Yeah did you do your homework?

860
00:50:58,996 --> 00:51:01,956
Speaker 2: I did my homework. Yeah, you're one assignment. I respect.

861
00:51:02,796 --> 00:51:05,916
Speaker 2: I Yeah. I had some arguments with my wife when

862
00:51:05,956 --> 00:51:07,636
Speaker 2: I picked this first one, because she's like, I don't

863
00:51:07,636 --> 00:51:09,516
Speaker 2: think of that as a country song, and I was like, well,

864
00:51:09,876 --> 00:51:12,596
Speaker 2: it was like a number three on the country charts.

865
00:51:14,876 --> 00:51:17,436
Speaker 2: But I think my favorite country song, or what I

866
00:51:17,476 --> 00:51:19,436
Speaker 2: think is the best country song is which tall Lineman

867
00:51:19,556 --> 00:51:23,316
Speaker 2: by Glenn Campbell. I need you more than want you

868
00:51:23,756 --> 00:51:26,676
Speaker 2: and I want you for all time. There's a song

869
00:51:26,716 --> 00:51:30,396
Speaker 2: about a Jimmy Web wrote the song and he talks

870
00:51:30,396 --> 00:51:33,196
Speaker 2: about how I think it was his uncle was a lineman.

871
00:51:33,556 --> 00:51:35,396
Speaker 2: He always remembered seeing him up on the polls, working

872
00:51:35,396 --> 00:51:39,476
Speaker 2: on electrical lines, and so the song came easy to

873
00:51:39,556 --> 00:51:42,876
Speaker 2: him because he can imagine him, you know, being away

874
00:51:42,876 --> 00:51:45,956
Speaker 2: from home for a long time, wishing for to be

875
00:51:45,996 --> 00:51:48,396
Speaker 2: home with the one he loves. And its stood the

876
00:51:48,436 --> 00:51:50,476
Speaker 2: test of time too. It's a very simple song about

877
00:51:50,476 --> 00:51:56,316
Speaker 2: a workingman missing his love. But that's my number one.

878
00:51:57,956 --> 00:51:59,716
Speaker 1: Your wife said that was not a country song.

879
00:51:59,756 --> 00:52:01,676
Speaker 2: She said she doesn't think of it as a country song.

880
00:52:03,876 --> 00:52:06,676
Speaker 1: What does she think of it? As?

881
00:52:06,476 --> 00:52:12,236
Speaker 2: That was not clear to me. We agreed on my

882
00:52:12,236 --> 00:52:14,436
Speaker 2: my second one, though, which is which is Crazy by

883
00:52:14,476 --> 00:52:15,076
Speaker 2: Patsy Klein.

884
00:52:15,516 --> 00:52:16,636
Speaker 1: Oh yes, okay.

885
00:52:16,916 --> 00:52:18,876
Speaker 2: I mean it's such a standard, but it is so

886
00:52:18,956 --> 00:52:20,836
Speaker 2: good and I love that Willie Nelson wrote it, and

887
00:52:20,876 --> 00:52:23,276
Speaker 2: then a couple of years later he kind of quit

888
00:52:23,356 --> 00:52:29,956
Speaker 2: the industry, moves to Austin, Texas, and writes the most

889
00:52:29,996 --> 00:52:35,396
Speaker 2: non commercial country record ever, that's You Redheaded Stranger, as

890
00:52:35,396 --> 00:52:37,876
Speaker 2: a forty three year old, his career blows up. I

891
00:52:37,956 --> 00:52:39,756
Speaker 2: just love the story, and we've played a lot. We've

892
00:52:39,796 --> 00:52:41,196
Speaker 2: gotten to play a lot of shows with Willie over

893
00:52:41,196 --> 00:52:43,156
Speaker 2: the years. I've sang with him a dozen times.

894
00:52:44,076 --> 00:52:45,436
Speaker 1: You know, Willie Nelson, I didn't know.

895
00:52:45,516 --> 00:52:46,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're not We don't like to call

896
00:52:46,956 --> 00:52:49,876
Speaker 2: each other because he's you know, he's he's an older guy,

897
00:52:49,916 --> 00:52:53,916
Speaker 2: and but I have. Yeah, we've shared the stage and sung.

898
00:52:54,156 --> 00:52:55,916
Speaker 2: He does this really neat thing every night where he

899
00:52:55,916 --> 00:52:58,476
Speaker 2: does at Medley of I Saw the Light will the

900
00:52:58,476 --> 00:53:05,036
Speaker 2: Circle being broken, and one other blanket on and he

901
00:53:05,116 --> 00:53:07,956
Speaker 2: invites you know, the opener to come out and sing

902
00:53:07,956 --> 00:53:09,956
Speaker 2: it with him. So I've got to do that twelve

903
00:53:10,036 --> 00:53:14,716
Speaker 2: or fifteen times. So he and Dolly tim are the

904
00:53:14,716 --> 00:53:19,276
Speaker 2: two living legends left, you know, in that space. And

905
00:53:19,316 --> 00:53:22,916
Speaker 2: then my third one would be Joelene as a Tennessee.

906
00:53:22,956 --> 00:53:25,516
Speaker 2: And if I didn't mention a Dolly Parton song, I

907
00:53:25,596 --> 00:53:28,436
Speaker 2: couldn't go home. What's your other one or two?

908
00:53:28,916 --> 00:53:32,996
Speaker 1: Uh? George Jones The Grand Tour, that's a sad song.

909
00:53:34,236 --> 00:53:38,276
Speaker 1: It's you know I have. I might be more attracted

910
00:53:38,316 --> 00:53:42,516
Speaker 1: to you, like are attracted to pure emotion, it seems like,

911
00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:46,556
Speaker 1: and I'm attracted in country music too over the top

912
00:53:46,676 --> 00:53:54,996
Speaker 1: grandiosity and the Grand Tour. George Jones is like, he's

913
00:53:55,076 --> 00:53:58,156
Speaker 1: like the he's in the best possible sense of the word,

914
00:53:58,156 --> 00:54:01,836
Speaker 1: a caricature of a country singer. Yes, voice, We're going

915
00:54:01,876 --> 00:54:06,836
Speaker 1: to make the play just the beginning of a play.

916
00:54:07,396 --> 00:54:11,116
Speaker 1: Play the Grand Tour until the line chills me to

917
00:54:11,156 --> 00:54:17,756
Speaker 1: the bone, step Ride, Come only.

918
00:54:19,236 --> 00:54:23,476
Speaker 3: Elf, you'd live to tell the Grand.

919
00:54:23,316 --> 00:54:31,476
Speaker 1: To pr along list so fantastic walks was Home, Sweet Home.

920
00:54:35,516 --> 00:54:41,036
Speaker 1: I have nothing here to sell you to.

921
00:54:41,076 --> 00:54:45,676
Speaker 4: Come saying that I will tell you.

922
00:54:46,516 --> 00:54:52,836
Speaker 5: Something things I know will chill you to the ball.

923
00:54:55,436 --> 00:54:58,596
Speaker 1: I mean the notion that you would write a song that,

924
00:54:59,116 --> 00:55:02,596
Speaker 1: with a straight face, has the phrase chill you to

925
00:55:02,676 --> 00:55:06,356
Speaker 1: the bone. And you know he's got nothing, he doesn't

926
00:55:06,356 --> 00:55:08,516
Speaker 1: have anything. The chill get to the bone. Some woman

927
00:55:08,596 --> 00:55:09,116
Speaker 1: dumped him.

928
00:55:09,196 --> 00:55:10,076
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it.

929
00:55:10,436 --> 00:55:12,956
Speaker 2: An empty house that this will chill you to the bone.

930
00:55:13,396 --> 00:55:15,076
Speaker 2: My empty house, my empty ass.

931
00:55:15,476 --> 00:55:18,716
Speaker 1: He's so I just can't get over the bath. He's

932
00:55:18,716 --> 00:55:19,396
Speaker 1: so genius.

933
00:55:19,476 --> 00:55:20,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, you love the melodrama.

934
00:55:21,156 --> 00:55:21,796
Speaker 1: I loved the melo.

935
00:55:21,916 --> 00:55:22,716
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

936
00:55:22,756 --> 00:55:25,476
Speaker 1: I once back in the day of mixtapes, I used

937
00:55:25,476 --> 00:55:28,356
Speaker 1: to make these mixtapes constantly, and they were always named

938
00:55:28,356 --> 00:55:32,756
Speaker 1: after for reasons I forget now, they were always named

939
00:55:32,796 --> 00:55:37,116
Speaker 1: after popes. So on the front of the CD case,

940
00:55:37,236 --> 00:55:39,396
Speaker 1: i'd have an image of one of the popes, like

941
00:55:39,436 --> 00:55:42,996
Speaker 1: you know, Pope Pious the twelfth or Emmanuel the sixteenth,

942
00:55:43,356 --> 00:55:47,236
Speaker 1: and then the Soul Also, I made like ten of

943
00:55:47,276 --> 00:55:50,476
Speaker 1: them because there were a lot of popes. And I

944
00:55:50,596 --> 00:55:53,396
Speaker 1: was once driving with some person who didn't know me

945
00:55:53,476 --> 00:55:56,036
Speaker 1: very well, and I was playing one of these mixtapes,

946
00:55:56,076 --> 00:55:58,716
Speaker 1: the Long Drive. One of these mixtapes after another, and

947
00:55:58,756 --> 00:56:01,356
Speaker 1: after like the third one, this guy Mike turned to

948
00:56:01,396 --> 00:56:06,316
Speaker 1: me and said, what is the matter with you? Every

949
00:56:06,396 --> 00:56:09,596
Speaker 1: single song was some kind of melancholy, over the top weeper.

950
00:56:10,396 --> 00:56:13,556
Speaker 1: I'm happy if the tempo is never picked up.

951
00:56:13,756 --> 00:56:20,316
Speaker 2: Yeah, songwriting, you're always pulling from your library, you know,

952
00:56:20,396 --> 00:56:22,956
Speaker 2: and you hopefully your library just keeps growing and growing.

953
00:56:23,276 --> 00:56:24,956
Speaker 2: And the trick is when I when I was young,

954
00:56:25,116 --> 00:56:28,996
Speaker 2: you're imitating and then you get better at finding you

955
00:56:28,996 --> 00:56:30,556
Speaker 2: when you find your own voice, and then you're just

956
00:56:31,196 --> 00:56:34,796
Speaker 2: sort of taking cues from your library or not copying anybody,

957
00:56:34,916 --> 00:56:37,876
Speaker 2: but you're you're going, oh, that's interesting. That's kind of

958
00:56:37,876 --> 00:56:39,876
Speaker 2: reminds me of this. Let's you know, make it our own.

959
00:56:39,916 --> 00:56:44,476
Speaker 1: And the people that you've mentioned who are important influences

960
00:56:44,476 --> 00:56:48,836
Speaker 1: for you, we just mentioned we talked before about oh

961
00:56:49,356 --> 00:56:53,636
Speaker 1: about Paul Simon. I'm curious what's the thread that links

962
00:56:53,676 --> 00:56:55,716
Speaker 1: and also Tom. I know that Tom Petty is someone

963
00:56:56,596 --> 00:56:58,716
Speaker 1: that has had an influencer. What what's the thread that

964
00:56:58,836 --> 00:57:00,796
Speaker 1: links these influences.

965
00:57:01,196 --> 00:57:04,476
Speaker 2: I think all those songwriters, I don't know if there's

966
00:57:04,556 --> 00:57:08,196
Speaker 2: if there's actually a perfect common thread between them, but

967
00:57:08,316 --> 00:57:12,876
Speaker 2: something about all those songs or all those artists, they

968
00:57:12,916 --> 00:57:16,396
Speaker 2: made records that really connected with me and helped me

969
00:57:16,516 --> 00:57:20,156
Speaker 2: sort of see the world, if you will, and help

970
00:57:20,236 --> 00:57:23,436
Speaker 2: me feel the world. And that's the beauty of music

971
00:57:23,516 --> 00:57:25,276
Speaker 2: is there's a bit of magic to it, and I'm

972
00:57:25,316 --> 00:57:31,236
Speaker 2: sure there's scientific and sociological ways to explain them. I'm

973
00:57:31,276 --> 00:57:33,436
Speaker 2: not really interested necessarily in hearing them because I like

974
00:57:33,516 --> 00:57:36,556
Speaker 2: the magic of it. I like the myth that I

975
00:57:36,596 --> 00:57:38,956
Speaker 2: don't know why this record speaks to me so much.

976
00:57:38,996 --> 00:57:44,316
Speaker 2: But when I hear you know, Tom Petty's Wildflowers, and

977
00:57:45,076 --> 00:57:47,676
Speaker 2: I hear all I have to hear is you belong

978
00:57:47,876 --> 00:57:51,156
Speaker 2: among the wildflywers, you belong in a boat out at

979
00:57:51,196 --> 00:57:53,956
Speaker 2: sea at that in and of itself is just a

980
00:57:53,996 --> 00:58:00,876
Speaker 2: beautiful sentiment, you know, executed with this, you know, the arrangement,

981
00:58:00,916 --> 00:58:03,836
Speaker 2: the sonic sort of landscape of it. None of the

982
00:58:03,916 --> 00:58:05,316
Speaker 2: artists that I love seemed to sort of play by

983
00:58:05,356 --> 00:58:08,236
Speaker 2: a certain formula. Maybe they do sometimes on certain songs,

984
00:58:08,316 --> 00:58:10,316
Speaker 2: or certain records. But Tom Petty's a great example. If

985
00:58:10,316 --> 00:58:12,236
Speaker 2: you look at his sort of the arc of his

986
00:58:12,476 --> 00:58:14,596
Speaker 2: career and listen to the records, they don't all sound

987
00:58:14,596 --> 00:58:17,876
Speaker 2: the same. There's you know, the different producers have sort

988
00:58:17,876 --> 00:58:20,316
Speaker 2: of different eras and fingerprints on his on his work

989
00:58:21,436 --> 00:58:24,036
Speaker 2: Jeff Lynn stuff is different than the Jimmy Ovine stuff.

990
00:58:24,076 --> 00:58:28,796
Speaker 2: And and I like that that they're always looking for

991
00:58:29,316 --> 00:58:32,156
Speaker 2: something else to say, something else to sing, some new

992
00:58:32,156 --> 00:58:37,156
Speaker 2: way to express human experience via music and instruments and

993
00:58:37,196 --> 00:58:41,596
Speaker 2: electricity and all this stuff that makes this makes it work.

994
00:58:43,476 --> 00:58:47,316
Speaker 1: I asked you to sing one cover. Yeah, tell me

995
00:58:47,356 --> 00:58:49,156
Speaker 1: what you chose and why.

996
00:58:48,956 --> 00:58:51,636
Speaker 2: I Well, I did. I chose this song because you

997
00:58:51,996 --> 00:58:55,756
Speaker 2: and I connected over the song back when we met

998
00:58:55,756 --> 00:58:58,996
Speaker 2: in April. And I just saw this artist play at

999
00:58:59,036 --> 00:59:03,436
Speaker 2: the Rhymann, which is a my favorite venue in the

1000
00:59:03,436 --> 00:59:07,276
Speaker 2: world and a serious underplay for him. The last time

1001
00:59:07,276 --> 00:59:09,716
Speaker 2: I saw him in Nashville was the Bridgetone Arena. He

1002
00:59:09,756 --> 00:59:12,756
Speaker 2: then he retired, and now he's come out of retirement

1003
00:59:12,796 --> 00:59:14,716
Speaker 2: to do these intimate acoustic shows. I know that you

1004
00:59:15,396 --> 00:59:17,676
Speaker 2: have interacted with him a ton, and I've heard nothing

1005
00:59:17,716 --> 00:59:20,636
Speaker 2: but great things about him personally, and I think this

1006
00:59:20,676 --> 00:59:23,316
Speaker 2: is one of the great songs. I also think it

1007
00:59:23,716 --> 00:59:26,876
Speaker 2: has what I consider the best first line of a

1008
00:59:26,916 --> 00:59:29,716
Speaker 2: song that I can that I've ever heard. So this

1009
00:59:29,876 --> 00:59:32,996
Speaker 2: is this is Paul Simon's America.

1010
00:59:34,396 --> 00:59:48,316
Speaker 5: Mm hmmm, let us be loves, will marry our fortunes together.

1011
00:59:52,636 --> 01:00:00,156
Speaker 5: I've got some real estate here in my back. So

1012
01:00:00,276 --> 01:00:08,316
Speaker 5: I bought a pack of cigarettes missus Wagners pies, and

1013
01:00:08,516 --> 01:00:11,316
Speaker 5: wall walked off to look for.

1014
01:00:13,476 --> 01:00:18,916
Speaker 3: Erica.

1015
01:00:20,996 --> 01:00:30,436
Speaker 5: Kathy, I said, as we boarded a grayhound in Pittsburgh, Michigan.

1016
01:00:30,916 --> 01:00:32,796
Speaker 4: Seems like a dream to me.

1017
01:00:32,916 --> 01:00:39,716
Speaker 5: Now. It took me four days to hitch ick from

1018
01:00:39,876 --> 01:00:46,436
Speaker 5: sagging off. I've gone to look for Armerica.

1019
01:00:54,076 --> 01:00:57,836
Speaker 3: Laughing on of us playing games.

1020
01:00:57,396 --> 01:01:05,636
Speaker 5: With their faces, she says, the man in the gabardine

1021
01:01:05,796 --> 01:01:14,356
Speaker 5: suit is a spine, I said, be careful his bow tie.

1022
01:01:14,636 --> 01:01:27,436
Speaker 5: It's really a camera. Well, toss me a saga. I've

1023
01:01:27,476 --> 01:01:34,596
Speaker 5: got one here in my raincoat. No, we smoked the

1024
01:01:34,716 --> 01:01:42,276
Speaker 5: last one, and how we'll ago Well, I looked at

1025
01:01:42,276 --> 01:01:50,996
Speaker 5: the scenery she read her magazine as the moon rolls

1026
01:01:51,636 --> 01:01:53,036
Speaker 5: over and over.

1027
01:01:54,076 --> 01:02:05,236
Speaker 4: Open. Feel o, Kathy, I'm lost, I said, though.

1028
01:02:05,076 --> 01:02:06,956
Speaker 5: I knew she was sleeping.

1029
01:02:10,836 --> 01:02:14,596
Speaker 4: I'm empty and a king, and I don't know why,

1030
01:02:15,716 --> 01:02:16,076
Speaker 4: m hmm.

1031
01:02:17,996 --> 01:02:23,636
Speaker 5: Counting the cars on the New Jersey Turnpike. They've all

1032
01:02:23,676 --> 01:02:36,196
Speaker 5: gone to look Formerica, all gone to look form Maerica.

1033
01:02:38,116 --> 01:02:44,556
Speaker 5: We've all gone to look for America.

1034
01:02:51,276 --> 01:02:53,156
Speaker 1: Let us be loves.

1035
01:02:53,196 --> 01:02:56,716
Speaker 4: We'll marry our fortunes together.

1036
01:03:00,876 --> 01:03:10,556
Speaker 1: He ups with thank you, said his concert at the

1037
01:03:10,596 --> 01:03:13,036
Speaker 1: Ryman that you saw earlier this.

1038
01:03:13,036 --> 01:03:20,276
Speaker 2: Year, and it was actually, this was really sweet for

1039
01:03:20,356 --> 01:03:23,356
Speaker 2: me personally. But we played two nights at the Rymond

1040
01:03:23,436 --> 01:03:26,396
Speaker 2: on May second and third, and then he played three

1041
01:03:26,516 --> 01:03:30,116
Speaker 2: nights at the Rymond May like twelve, thirteenth, and fourteenth,

1042
01:03:30,436 --> 01:03:34,436
Speaker 2: and I got to sit and watch a show right

1043
01:03:34,476 --> 01:03:36,476
Speaker 2: after I had played there and to see one of

1044
01:03:36,476 --> 01:03:39,316
Speaker 2: my heroes in the same spot that I was in

1045
01:03:39,396 --> 01:03:42,756
Speaker 2: eight days earlier, and he had the same reverence for

1046
01:03:42,796 --> 01:03:46,436
Speaker 2: the room that I always have, and it was it

1047
01:03:46,476 --> 01:03:50,836
Speaker 2: was a bit of an emotional and joyous and overwhelming experience.

1048
01:03:51,036 --> 01:03:54,036
Speaker 2: And he did two sets. He did the seven Hymns

1049
01:03:54,116 --> 01:03:56,476
Speaker 2: record from front to back, and then he came out

1050
01:03:56,476 --> 01:03:58,076
Speaker 2: and did sort of all the songs that you would

1051
01:03:58,076 --> 01:04:00,236
Speaker 2: want expect to hear in the second set, and it

1052
01:04:00,276 --> 01:04:02,636
Speaker 2: was just a yeah, it was wonderful.

1053
01:04:03,236 --> 01:04:05,636
Speaker 1: So you were in the middle. You you you were

1054
01:04:05,676 --> 01:04:08,476
Speaker 1: in the middle of writing a song about Cormack MacArthur.

1055
01:04:08,676 --> 01:04:09,596
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was.

1056
01:04:11,316 --> 01:04:13,716
Speaker 1: Tell me how that came about. Yeah, you are so.

1057
01:04:14,116 --> 01:04:16,916
Speaker 2: Cormick McCarthy is one of my favorite authors. You know,

1058
01:04:17,116 --> 01:04:22,836
Speaker 2: Southern Gothic, dark, violent, into the world, apocalypse, human sort

1059
01:04:22,876 --> 01:04:27,716
Speaker 2: of morality play author right, very sparse and no country

1060
01:04:27,756 --> 01:04:31,516
Speaker 2: for old men, all the pretty horses, the road, so

1061
01:04:31,596 --> 01:04:34,836
Speaker 2: many great books that turn into great films, et cetera.

1062
01:04:34,996 --> 01:04:38,596
Speaker 2: So he actually grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, which is

1063
01:04:38,596 --> 01:04:41,196
Speaker 2: where I went to school, but he had he left

1064
01:04:41,236 --> 01:04:43,796
Speaker 2: there and lived all over but it sort of landed

1065
01:04:43,836 --> 01:04:47,076
Speaker 2: in the desert and Santa fel Passo somewhere in there.

1066
01:04:49,796 --> 01:04:55,676
Speaker 2: Unrelated to that, seemingly was. I love old cars, and

1067
01:04:55,676 --> 01:04:58,316
Speaker 2: so I get this email from a company that auctions

1068
01:04:58,316 --> 01:05:00,436
Speaker 2: old cars just because I love just to look at them.

1069
01:05:00,876 --> 01:05:03,676
Speaker 2: And I get this email in April, early April. It

1070
01:05:03,716 --> 01:05:08,716
Speaker 2: says Cormick McCarthy's Ferrari it's being auctioned off, and so

1071
01:05:09,196 --> 01:05:11,716
Speaker 2: kind of like blue affuse in me because I'm like,

1072
01:05:11,796 --> 01:05:15,796
Speaker 2: Cormie McCarthy didn't drive. It's like it's like, sure he

1073
01:05:16,196 --> 01:05:20,356
Speaker 2: actually did. He drove this black Ferrari in the last

1074
01:05:20,476 --> 01:05:24,996
Speaker 2: years of his life, and so I had this idea

1075
01:05:25,036 --> 01:05:28,996
Speaker 2: of like writing a song Cormie McCarthy's Black Ferrari, but

1076
01:05:29,036 --> 01:05:32,236
Speaker 2: I couldn't quite find my the end, you know, I

1077
01:05:32,276 --> 01:05:35,676
Speaker 2: didn't find the end, but I thought, no, I want to.

1078
01:05:35,836 --> 01:05:39,156
Speaker 2: I want to drive Cormie McCarthy's Black Ferrari through the

1079
01:05:39,196 --> 01:05:43,876
Speaker 2: desert and like and have a complete existential crisis as

1080
01:05:44,156 --> 01:05:46,156
Speaker 2: and I feel like everybody right now is sort of

1081
01:05:46,316 --> 01:05:50,636
Speaker 2: we sort of live inside of existential crisis. That's that's

1082
01:05:50,676 --> 01:05:53,396
Speaker 2: like going to be the era that we live in.

1083
01:05:53,476 --> 01:05:54,996
Speaker 2: We look back on it, we're like, that's the that's

1084
01:05:55,036 --> 01:05:58,356
Speaker 2: the air of the existential crisis. There's just so much

1085
01:05:58,396 --> 01:06:02,516
Speaker 2: happening at such a speed that it's hard to keep up,

1086
01:06:02,516 --> 01:06:04,196
Speaker 2: and it's hard to know how to where to put

1087
01:06:04,196 --> 01:06:07,996
Speaker 2: your anger and where to put your your joy and

1088
01:06:08,316 --> 01:06:10,916
Speaker 2: how to how to live. And I thought one of

1089
01:06:10,916 --> 01:06:12,156
Speaker 2: the ways it would help me is if I had

1090
01:06:12,236 --> 01:06:15,556
Speaker 2: Corey McCarthy's Black Ferrari for a day. So I wrote

1091
01:06:15,556 --> 01:06:19,476
Speaker 2: this song, and first person I sent it to was

1092
01:06:19,516 --> 01:06:20,996
Speaker 2: you because we had talked about that.

1093
01:06:20,956 --> 01:06:24,076
Speaker 1: Interview and I love old cars too.

1094
01:06:24,196 --> 01:06:26,156
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we also we could. Yeah, we connected our

1095
01:06:26,156 --> 01:06:30,956
Speaker 2: old cars and I was like, I yeah. So I've

1096
01:06:30,996 --> 01:06:35,516
Speaker 2: never played this song before except for during soundcheck, So

1097
01:06:35,556 --> 01:06:39,916
Speaker 2: this is this is a debut and I really liked

1098
01:06:39,916 --> 01:06:41,956
Speaker 2: this song. And if you don't like it, I don't

1099
01:06:41,996 --> 01:06:43,476
Speaker 2: really care that much because I like it a lot.

1100
01:06:43,556 --> 01:06:47,076
Speaker 2: So let's see. I remember how to.

1101
01:06:59,156 --> 01:07:03,036
Speaker 5: Walking on the sidewalk through my neighborhood. My neighbor's black

1102
01:07:03,156 --> 01:07:06,356
Speaker 5: cat is up to no good. There's something in the air,

1103
01:07:06,756 --> 01:07:09,996
Speaker 5: something in the streets, like a red tail wading up

1104
01:07:10,036 --> 01:07:13,396
Speaker 5: in the trees. There's levees and tolls and roadblocks and

1105
01:07:13,476 --> 01:07:16,236
Speaker 5: speed bumps. Has it been a day, a week, or

1106
01:07:16,436 --> 01:07:19,956
Speaker 5: just a month? Unwanted packages by the front door screen

1107
01:07:20,076 --> 01:07:27,156
Speaker 5: and EMPTYEP pages in my diary. Cormac McCarthy's got a

1108
01:07:27,196 --> 01:07:32,156
Speaker 5: black Ferrari that he drives across the desert on a

1109
01:07:33,196 --> 01:07:38,356
Speaker 5: Sunday morning, and I'm dreaming about the wind in my face,

1110
01:07:38,516 --> 01:07:43,876
Speaker 5: nothing but my worn out suitcase driving that Ferrari, like

1111
01:07:44,476 --> 01:07:59,676
Speaker 5: Cormac McCarthy in my mind. In my mind, UF fiasco

1112
01:07:59,876 --> 01:08:03,516
Speaker 5: falls like rain on our faces, a Mickey Mantle rookie

1113
01:08:03,516 --> 01:08:06,476
Speaker 5: card ruined in the basement, and nothing turns out.

1114
01:08:06,476 --> 01:08:08,956
Speaker 4: Like you thought it would. It's a little more bare

1115
01:08:09,156 --> 01:08:10,316
Speaker 4: food than Hollywood.

1116
01:08:10,836 --> 01:08:14,796
Speaker 5: It's confusing the losing the booze and excusing the stage

1117
01:08:14,876 --> 01:08:16,916
Speaker 5: fright and all the troubles shooting.

1118
01:08:17,236 --> 01:08:18,196
Speaker 3: Where do I.

1119
01:08:18,156 --> 01:08:20,716
Speaker 5: Fit in amongst all the matter in this party?

1120
01:08:20,756 --> 01:08:23,196
Speaker 4: He always feels like a lost soul's gathering.

1121
01:08:26,516 --> 01:08:33,676
Speaker 5: Cormac McCarthy's got a black Ferrari that he drives across

1122
01:08:33,716 --> 01:08:39,716
Speaker 5: the desert on a Sunday morning, And I'm dreaming about

1123
01:08:39,756 --> 01:08:43,876
Speaker 5: the wind and my face, nothing but my worn out

1124
01:08:43,876 --> 01:08:50,956
Speaker 5: suitcase driving that Ferrari, like Cormac McCarthy in my mind,

1125
01:08:55,996 --> 01:09:05,636
Speaker 5: In my mind, engine and fuel and pain and chrome,

1126
01:09:08,276 --> 01:09:14,916
Speaker 5: muscle and bl blood and skinning bone. Engine and fuel

1127
01:09:15,076 --> 01:09:22,036
Speaker 5: and pain and chrome, muscle and blood and skinning bones.

1128
01:09:27,636 --> 01:09:34,996
Speaker 5: Cormac McCarthy's gotten black Ferrari that he drives across the

1129
01:09:35,196 --> 01:09:41,076
Speaker 5: desert an him Sunday morning, and I'm dreaming about the

1130
01:09:41,116 --> 01:09:45,716
Speaker 5: wind in my face, nothing but warm out suitcase of

1131
01:09:45,876 --> 01:09:51,716
Speaker 5: driving that Ferrari, like Cormac McCarthy.

1132
01:09:51,076 --> 01:09:59,996
Speaker 12: In my mind, in my mind, in my mind, I'm

1133
01:10:00,116 --> 01:10:05,316
Speaker 12: driving Cornmac McCarthy's black Ferra.

1134
01:10:06,196 --> 01:10:12,916
Speaker 1: In my mind, I love that.

1135
01:10:14,876 --> 01:10:15,516
Speaker 2: I hope you.

1136
01:10:17,636 --> 01:10:21,836
Speaker 1: Why you said you couldn't figure out how to couldn't

1137
01:10:21,876 --> 01:10:24,276
Speaker 1: figure out your way in? What did you mean by that?

1138
01:10:24,916 --> 01:10:29,676
Speaker 2: Well, I had this this like obviously the phrase in

1139
01:10:29,716 --> 01:10:34,996
Speaker 2: the rhyme Corey McCarthy's Black Ferrari. It was like, this

1140
01:10:35,076 --> 01:10:38,156
Speaker 2: song gonna be like a funny song about how could

1141
01:10:38,156 --> 01:10:46,556
Speaker 2: this Maudelin writer have such a you know, cultural toy

1142
01:10:46,796 --> 01:10:48,956
Speaker 2: like this. This doesn't make sense to me.

1143
01:10:49,236 --> 01:10:51,996
Speaker 1: It should be a old Chevy pick up.

1144
01:10:52,076 --> 01:10:54,716
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's like that's the imagination, right, It's not

1145
01:10:55,156 --> 01:10:58,036
Speaker 2: that he had this car, so it's like a magnum

1146
01:10:58,076 --> 01:11:01,956
Speaker 2: p I car, you know. And so then I was like, no,

1147
01:11:01,996 --> 01:11:04,276
Speaker 2: that's not the right frame because what I felt when

1148
01:11:04,316 --> 01:11:07,396
Speaker 2: I saw that that existed as a fan of his work,

1149
01:11:07,516 --> 01:11:09,996
Speaker 2: and it's also someone who would like to have a

1150
01:11:10,076 --> 01:11:15,156
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty nine Testerosa just for a day. Even was

1151
01:11:15,196 --> 01:11:21,876
Speaker 2: that No, even the saddest, most sort of gothic, you know,

1152
01:11:22,236 --> 01:11:29,076
Speaker 2: the chronicler of American violence needed an escape, and so

1153
01:11:29,156 --> 01:11:30,876
Speaker 2: he had this Black Ferrari and he would just go.

1154
01:11:31,276 --> 01:11:34,276
Speaker 2: I'd imagine him smiling, driving one hundred and twenty miles

1155
01:11:34,276 --> 01:11:36,356
Speaker 2: an hour across the desert in Santa Fe. And there's

1156
01:11:36,356 --> 01:11:37,956
Speaker 2: not a picture in the world that exists of Corn

1157
01:11:38,036 --> 01:11:43,916
Speaker 2: McCarthy's smiling no, and so I relate to that. I

1158
01:11:44,476 --> 01:11:51,436
Speaker 2: relate to feeling the weight of of you know, life

1159
01:11:51,476 --> 01:11:54,916
Speaker 2: and all of its like joys and tragedies, and that

1160
01:11:55,276 --> 01:12:01,316
Speaker 2: sometimes the simple pleasure might make it go away for

1161
01:12:01,356 --> 01:12:01,836
Speaker 2: a minute.

1162
01:12:02,036 --> 01:12:05,716
Speaker 1: Has that song as it stands? Now? Have you worked

1163
01:12:05,756 --> 01:12:07,156
Speaker 1: on that with the band? Or is at all you

1164
01:12:07,276 --> 01:12:07,716
Speaker 1: at this point?

1165
01:12:07,756 --> 01:12:09,516
Speaker 2: Well, they've heard it, but we haven't know. We wait

1166
01:12:09,596 --> 01:12:11,236
Speaker 2: till we all get in the room together before we

1167
01:12:11,436 --> 01:12:12,796
Speaker 2: sort of dive into it.

1168
01:12:12,956 --> 01:12:16,516
Speaker 1: But yeah, what will happen to it when when you

1169
01:12:16,556 --> 01:12:17,156
Speaker 1: all dive in?

1170
01:12:17,556 --> 01:12:20,756
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, we'll we'll go through several iterations.

1171
01:12:20,756 --> 01:12:22,276
Speaker 2: First thing we'll do is we'll make sure we're in

1172
01:12:22,276 --> 01:12:24,076
Speaker 2: the right key. We'll do some practical things, make sure

1173
01:12:24,076 --> 01:12:27,516
Speaker 2: we're the right key, figure out the tempo, and then

1174
01:12:27,556 --> 01:12:29,956
Speaker 2: we'll sort of jump into the approach, you know, like

1175
01:12:30,276 --> 01:12:31,996
Speaker 2: what are the drums gonna be doing? Are we are we?

1176
01:12:32,196 --> 01:12:35,876
Speaker 2: Is this acoustic sort of is that the main engine

1177
01:12:35,916 --> 01:12:37,716
Speaker 2: driver of the song? Or are we gonna do like

1178
01:12:37,756 --> 01:12:41,596
Speaker 2: a piano bass drums thing? And then you know, just

1179
01:12:41,676 --> 01:12:43,676
Speaker 2: kind of like try a bunch of different things and

1180
01:12:43,716 --> 01:12:46,916
Speaker 2: then inevitably one of them, all five of us will

1181
01:12:46,916 --> 01:12:48,676
Speaker 2: go that's it. That's the that's the approach.

1182
01:12:49,676 --> 01:12:53,156
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really beautiful song. Thank you, Thank you do.

1183
01:12:53,276 --> 01:12:56,996
Speaker 1: I think we're I think our time is.

1184
01:12:58,516 --> 01:13:00,116
Speaker 2: I have no idea ho much time we've been up

1185
01:13:00,116 --> 01:13:00,716
Speaker 2: for a while.

1186
01:13:00,556 --> 01:13:02,556
Speaker 1: Though we've been up here a while. Yeah, I feel

1187
01:13:02,796 --> 01:13:06,716
Speaker 1: are people lurking? How should we end this?

1188
01:13:07,516 --> 01:13:07,916
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1189
01:13:09,996 --> 01:13:12,276
Speaker 1: I'm being sumptuous. So if I ask you to play

1190
01:13:12,276 --> 01:13:12,916
Speaker 1: one more song.

1191
01:13:12,756 --> 01:13:20,196
Speaker 2: Sure, Sure, I'll play a song I wrote. There's a

1192
01:13:20,436 --> 01:13:24,036
Speaker 2: wonderful band in Nashville that has toured for many years

1193
01:13:24,076 --> 01:13:27,036
Speaker 2: called Old Crow Medicine Show Good. My kids go to

1194
01:13:27,076 --> 01:13:29,916
Speaker 2: school with some of Ketsch's kids, who's the lead singer

1195
01:13:29,916 --> 01:13:32,476
Speaker 2: and writer. And this is a great Nashville story. We're

1196
01:13:32,556 --> 01:13:34,716
Speaker 2: dropping our kids off at school and he's like, what

1197
01:13:34,716 --> 01:13:36,756
Speaker 2: are you up to this week? And I said, I'm

1198
01:13:36,756 --> 01:13:38,516
Speaker 2: just gonna be in my office doing some writing and

1199
01:13:39,396 --> 01:13:42,196
Speaker 2: you know, working, And he said we should write a

1200
01:13:42,236 --> 01:13:44,396
Speaker 2: song this week. We'd never written a song together before,

1201
01:13:45,196 --> 01:13:46,876
Speaker 2: and so I said, well how about tomorrow morning. So

1202
01:13:47,036 --> 01:13:48,916
Speaker 2: the next morning, we drop our kids off, we get coffee.

1203
01:13:48,916 --> 01:13:51,876
Speaker 2: About eight thirty, we're writing songs, and we wrote this

1204
01:13:51,956 --> 01:13:54,276
Speaker 2: song about ten thirty that morning. We both had just

1205
01:13:54,316 --> 01:13:57,316
Speaker 2: gotten back into doing normal shows again with a real

1206
01:13:57,476 --> 01:13:59,636
Speaker 2: with live audiences, and we had really missed that.

1207
01:13:59,876 --> 01:14:02,836
Speaker 1: So this is such a fantastic only in Nashville story.

1208
01:14:02,916 --> 01:14:05,436
Speaker 2: Yeah it is. And then it was a great It

1209
01:14:05,476 --> 01:14:06,876
Speaker 2: was a great song for me. It ended up being

1210
01:14:06,956 --> 01:14:09,516
Speaker 2: It's the song is called Dance with Everybody, ended up

1211
01:14:09,516 --> 01:14:12,636
Speaker 2: getting picked up by the NCAA for two years straight

1212
01:14:12,676 --> 01:14:16,636
Speaker 2: as the theme song for March Madness, which a song

1213
01:14:16,716 --> 01:14:22,356
Speaker 2: is not about basketball, and b I am like one

1214
01:14:22,356 --> 01:14:26,636
Speaker 2: of the world's worst basketball players in a big family

1215
01:14:26,636 --> 01:14:27,956
Speaker 2: of athletes, and so it brought me a lot of

1216
01:14:27,956 --> 01:14:32,716
Speaker 2: satisfaction that my song I was in. I got to

1217
01:14:32,716 --> 01:14:36,396
Speaker 2: participate in March Madness. None of my none of my athletics,

1218
01:14:36,396 --> 01:14:37,636
Speaker 2: six three cousins did.

1219
01:14:37,756 --> 01:14:49,876
Speaker 5: So you walked into this room, you hardly knew anyone.

1220
01:14:50,956 --> 01:14:54,716
Speaker 5: See full of strange, just crashing all the rooms with

1221
01:14:54,876 --> 01:14:57,476
Speaker 5: the band strikes. By the end of the night's strange

1222
01:14:57,476 --> 01:15:01,876
Speaker 5: as normal. I want to dance with everybody.

1223
01:15:01,116 --> 01:15:04,036
Speaker 9: Who came through that dog, whether you came here to

1224
01:15:04,196 --> 01:15:08,316
Speaker 9: party or you came here to cry, whether that'll meet somebody,

1225
01:15:08,516 --> 01:15:10,956
Speaker 9: cheat somebody to get little get high.

1226
01:15:11,236 --> 01:15:12,956
Speaker 4: So come on, all you people.

1227
01:15:13,116 --> 01:15:14,636
Speaker 3: Hit two feet on your floor.

1228
01:15:14,916 --> 01:15:18,676
Speaker 9: I want to dance with everybody and came through that door.

1229
01:15:19,716 --> 01:15:22,676
Speaker 3: WHOA, let it all go?

1230
01:15:23,876 --> 01:15:29,036
Speaker 5: WHOA, Shake up your soul, throw your hands in the air,

1231
01:15:29,476 --> 01:15:32,556
Speaker 5: throw your hat in the ring, grow your hips in

1232
01:15:32,676 --> 01:15:36,676
Speaker 5: your heart into everything, Get lost.

1233
01:15:36,436 --> 01:15:39,836
Speaker 9: In the crowd, Get down on the floor. I wanna

1234
01:15:39,916 --> 01:15:48,356
Speaker 9: dance with everybody came in that door. Well, come, all.

1235
01:15:48,236 --> 01:15:50,156
Speaker 2: Your saints and sinners.

1236
01:15:49,796 --> 01:15:51,596
Speaker 3: Poets, profits and fools.

1237
01:15:51,796 --> 01:15:54,716
Speaker 5: Are you cowboys, tricks and zipss trying so hard to

1238
01:15:54,756 --> 01:15:59,436
Speaker 5: be cool? All you dreamers and schemers thirsty for more?

1239
01:15:59,636 --> 01:16:02,916
Speaker 3: I wanna dance with everybody.

1240
01:16:02,356 --> 01:16:03,356
Speaker 2: Came through that door.

1241
01:16:04,396 --> 01:16:08,796
Speaker 4: WHOA, let it all go? Whoa.

1242
01:16:09,156 --> 01:16:13,476
Speaker 5: Oh, shake up your soul. Royal hands in the air,

1243
01:16:13,996 --> 01:16:17,716
Speaker 5: royal hat in the ring, royal hips in your heart

1244
01:16:17,836 --> 01:16:22,996
Speaker 5: into everything, Get lost in the crowd, Get down on

1245
01:16:23,036 --> 01:16:23,556
Speaker 5: the floor.

1246
01:16:23,756 --> 01:16:24,916
Speaker 3: I want to dance with.

1247
01:16:25,076 --> 01:16:27,476
Speaker 5: Everybody came through that door.

1248
01:16:29,916 --> 01:16:42,036
Speaker 13: Oh where, ohhey, ohhay.

1249
01:16:43,956 --> 01:16:46,996
Speaker 3: Well, let's put us oude our differences. We'll lace up

1250
01:16:47,036 --> 01:16:51,156
Speaker 3: our shoes. Let's narrow the distance between.

1251
01:16:50,836 --> 01:16:53,516
Speaker 4: Me and meet me in the middle.

1252
01:16:54,116 --> 01:16:55,476
Speaker 3: Let's quit keeping score.

1253
01:16:55,636 --> 01:16:59,316
Speaker 9: I want to dance with everybody came through that door.

1254
01:17:00,356 --> 01:17:03,196
Speaker 3: WHOA, let it all go.

1255
01:17:04,396 --> 01:17:10,076
Speaker 14: WHOA shake up your soul, Throw hands in the royal

1256
01:17:10,276 --> 01:17:15,076
Speaker 14: had read royal hips in your heart into everything.

1257
01:17:15,676 --> 01:17:18,556
Speaker 5: Turn the world on a stream, Turn the winds on

1258
01:17:18,676 --> 01:17:21,796
Speaker 5: a dive, Turn the wheel to the west, and the

1259
01:17:21,916 --> 01:17:23,156
Speaker 5: water the wine.

1260
01:17:23,676 --> 01:17:27,076
Speaker 3: Get lost in the crowd, get down on the swoon.

1261
01:17:27,276 --> 01:17:31,316
Speaker 9: I want to dance with everybody came through that I

1262
01:17:31,476 --> 01:17:35,316
Speaker 9: want to dance with everybody who came through that door.

1263
01:17:37,276 --> 01:17:51,596
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much, Drew, Thank you all. This

1264
01:17:51,676 --> 01:17:54,236
Speaker 1: episode of Broken Record is produced by Lea Rose and

1265
01:17:54,356 --> 01:17:57,156
Speaker 1: Nina Bird Lawrence, with bend A, da f Haffrey and

1266
01:17:57,276 --> 01:18:01,276
Speaker 1: Lucy Sullivan. Our engineers are Nina Bird Lawrence, Sarah Buguerer,

1267
01:18:01,556 --> 01:18:05,516
Speaker 1: and Ben Holliday. Marketing by Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan.

1268
01:18:06,036 --> 01:18:10,396
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Jacob Smith and Justin Richmond. Special

1269
01:18:10,436 --> 01:18:13,516
Speaker 1: thanks to Wage twenty four, to Wallowise Linton, and to

1270
01:18:13,596 --> 01:18:16,596
Speaker 1: the whole crew over at the Cherry Lane Theater. My

1271
01:18:16,756 --> 01:18:18,396
Speaker 1: name is Malcolm Gabo.