1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Oh no, it's not Santa, it's Nancy Grace. Are you 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: trying to find the perfect gift for a parent or 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: an expecting parent, Please do not give them another onesie. 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Don't do it, and not another plastic toy is going 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: to end up in the trash being or the garage 6 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: or sent to Goodwill this holiday season. Give them something 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: that really matters, and what matters more than protecting their child. 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: I sat down with the smartest people in the world 9 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: that I know when it comes to child safety, finding 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: missing children, and fighting back against predators, and what I 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: learned is so critical and the information so powerful and important. 12 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: I want you to have it. I want them as 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: parents to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child. 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: Because I I've done it myself based on what they 17 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: have told me. Give that as a gift, not another onesie. 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: Please find out how to protect your child out and 19 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: about at the mall, at the store, at the grocery store, 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: in parking lots, in parking decks, at your home, in 21 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: your neighborhood. Find out about protection regarding babysitters nanny's daycare, 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: even protection online. It's the very best gift you can 23 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: give any parent. Go to crimestops here dot com and 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: join the Justice Nation crime stops here dot com Crime 25 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. My daddy is that he guess what, girls, 26 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: Mommy has a baby in her belly. Are you guys excited? Yes, 27 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: guess guess when you want to see what happens. They 28 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: were always hugging or holding hands or kissing me. They 29 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: have they have the perfect thing. Bella celeust you're out there, 30 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: just just come back, like if somebody has her, please 31 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: bring her back. In the last hours, killer Dad Chris 32 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: Watts transferred to a maximum security Wisconsin prison known for 33 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: housing serial killers, and for good reason, Chris Watts, who 34 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: has play guilty in the murder, changed that to Chris Watts, 35 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: suspected in the murders of his wife and two little girls, 36 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. Now has women crawling out of the woodwork. 37 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: When I met him on tender and that when we 38 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: had a relationship, I was shopping for wedding dresses. As 39 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: we learned damning evidence from the autopsy report of his wife, Shenan, 40 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean as he Grace this is crime Stories. Thank 41 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Straight out to Alexis terres Chuck, 42 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: investigative reporter with Radar online dot Com. Alexis terres Chuck, 43 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: what's the latest. So in the dark of Mount Chris 44 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: Wats was moved from his prison in Colorado all the 45 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: way across the country to a prison in Wisconsin. He 46 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: was moved because of safety reasons. He is such a 47 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: threat that they had to move him out of the 48 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: Colorado prison. People know about him and he is such 49 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: a target on his back that they moved him. But 50 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: they have moved him to the Dodge Correctional facility in 51 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: prison that is known for housing the worst furial killers 52 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: in the country. This is where they put the hardened criminals, 53 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: the people who've committed the most heinous crimes in our 54 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: whole country together and that's where christ is now. Well. 55 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joining me, director of the Cold Case Research 56 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: Institute and also crime scene investigator. Cheryl, is there anything 57 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: worse than what we are learning from the twenty five 58 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: pages of autopsy reports that you can read at crime 59 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 1: online dot Com in their entirety, I mean, Cheryl McCollum, 60 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: Shenane Watts was fifteen weeks pregnant at the time she 61 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: was murdered, and her body revealed shocking information to me. Anyway, 62 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: even I who have been present for countless autopsies and 63 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 1: I never even blinked, denied or looked away crime scenes 64 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: that literally stunk the works. But when I read that 65 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: autopsy report, it almost made me six. Cheryl, and you 66 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. Let me be really clear, 67 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: there is nowhere they can move him. He's going to 68 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: be safe. He has a target so clear. They're waiting 69 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: for him in Wisconsin, they would wait on him in 70 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: Idaho or Kansas or Florida. Hold on, just a moment, 71 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard in the studio, please quit cheering silently and 72 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: mouth and yeah, yeah, yeah, you do the Whoop side. 73 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl, I hear you talking. But come on, 74 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: jail house justice. I've only heard of it actually happening 75 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: in three cases. One was Catholic priests where Whoops ran 76 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: into one of his molestation victims that had grown up 77 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: and committed a CRIMEO was in jail, he got killed, 78 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: the priest did. Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. And 79 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: there was just recently one other but if you're counting 80 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: on jailhouse justice, Okay, don't hold your breath, Cheryl, Nancy, 81 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: there's a creed among criminals. And you know this better 82 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: than any I do. Know that you vote women or children, 83 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: they're not going to forgive you ever. And just like 84 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: you just mentioned these people that you mentioned, these three 85 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: hurt innocent people, These weren't people that even on the 86 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: street people felt like, hey there are some street justice. 87 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: This person killed your brothers, so you can kill them. 88 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: This isn't the case. He killed three children. Well, I 89 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: hate to point out to you that a large percentage 90 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,840 Speaker 1: of people behind bars, Cheryl McCollum. I know you're the 91 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Research Institute and all that, 92 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: and I'm very impressed, but let me just point out 93 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: to just enjoy reigning on your parade for a moment, 94 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: that about half the people men behind bars are there 95 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: for hurting women or children. Oh did that just mess 96 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: up your whole your whole argument? Not at all, Not 97 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: at all, because I'm talking about you just cannot admit defeat, 98 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: go ahead hard to criminals that creed for real criminals. Now, 99 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: I'm talking about like mafia gang members. They leave women 100 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 1: and children out of it. I'm not talking about the 101 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: punks that are gonna, you know, hurt the poor child. 102 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about priest because that priest is not 103 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: a hardened criminals like street level. I'm gonna get retribution 104 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: for these children that you heard. I'm talking about real criminals, 105 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: I mean, certified right on in your face. I'm a 106 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: criminals being a criminal. I'm talking about that guy he's 107 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: waiting on Chris Watts. I promise, Cheryl, what did you 108 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: find to be the most disturbing aspect of the autopsy 109 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: reports on Shenan Watts? Nancy? Every single line told his 110 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: story of what he did to her in such great 111 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: details that I believe he's gonna make the right choice 112 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: when he does admits to everything and doesn't go to 113 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: TA Okay, you know what I had to do when 114 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: I first started trying cases. I'm gonna say this to you. 115 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, Atlanta judge lawyer. You can find her at 116 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott dot com and child Crime Watched on Facebook. Ashley, 117 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: I learned at my first trial, and then I learned 118 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: it over and over again before it was finally ingrained 119 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: in me. No matter how off putting the evidence is. 120 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: You cannot turn away from the evidence. You have to 121 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 1: look at the jury in the eye, show no sign 122 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: of revulsion, nothing, and you have to tell them the facts. 123 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: And in this case, the autopsy report reveals that Shenan 124 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: Watts baby boy, Nico, she delivered him. The baby was 125 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: in her underwear. Nico was born because of a prolapsed 126 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: uterus that happened when Chris Watts was beating her and 127 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: murdering her. They found the unborn child in her underwear, 128 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: according to the autopsy report. And I had to still 129 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: practice doing that, so I practiced on Jackie here in 130 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: this study. I want to said it because that is 131 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: the fact. That's the reality, and we cannot turn away 132 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: from it, no matter how off putting and personally revolts 133 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: of it is, because that is the truth. And I 134 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: will have to say this case, the truth hurts. And 135 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: that's why I believe in our justice system. As a judge, Nancy, 136 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: you have to put the evidence before the jury. The 137 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: jury is going to be revolted, but the truth is 138 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: the truth. That's exactly what happened to that mother, and 139 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: the autopsy reports are equally as horrific. In my mind 140 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: as to what happened to those children defensive wounds on 141 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: one of these small children. The juries cannot make a 142 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,679 Speaker 1: decision without having every shred of evidence in front of them, 143 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: no matter how hard it is for a court or 144 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: a prosecutor to present it to the jury. That's their job. 145 00:09:55,400 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: They have to hear those horrible facts because it's what happened. Well, 146 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: we keep hearing from Cheryl McCullum that there's gonna be 147 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: jailhouse justice when Chris Wattson gets settled into his new 148 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: digs at the max security Wisconsin prison. But here's one 149 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: lady that had a perfect reason for a retribution. She'd 150 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: listen to. One lady Chris watts was dating, and I'm 151 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: putting that euphemistically dating off tender. After they exchanged a 152 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: few flirty text messages, Amanda agreed to meet Chris Wattson 153 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: person for the first time here in this shopping center. 154 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: They parked somewhere over here, and then Chris bought Amanda 155 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 1: a coffee from this Starbucks before they decided to head 156 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: to her place to watch a movie. That movie was 157 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: the psychological thriller Shutter Island. Leonardo Dicabrio plays a husband 158 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: who murders his wife because she killed their children. Where 159 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: the kids did the movie inspire Watts to falsely claim 160 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: that he killed his wife, Shenan in a rage because 161 00:10:53,840 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: she strangled the little girls. Kind of eerie, Yeah, almost 162 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: like a premonition. Right at this point, we have been 163 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: able to recover of a body that we're quite certain 164 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: is Chanan Watts body. We have a strong reason to 165 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: believe that we know where the bodies of the children. 166 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: Aren't being the loving Chris that he normally was. He 167 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: wasn't touching or hugging or doing stuff like that, and 168 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: he wasn't being as attentive to the girls as he 169 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: normally is. We're not promised tomorrow, do you know? We're 170 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: not promised anything but to be able to enjoy our 171 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: children and m every crazy moment. It can be super crazy. 172 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. My kids are are crazy, but 173 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: I love them and I love the fact that I 174 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: can be there for them. I need to see everybody again. 175 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: This house is not complete without anybody. Here's black. You 176 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: are hearing a montage bringing us up to date in 177 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: the latest and Chris Watts the killer Dad. It was 178 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: just been moved to a maximum security facility in Wisconsin. 179 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: Back to Cheryl McCollum, director of the cole Case Research Institute. 180 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's very rare for a prison prisoner convicted 181 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: on a state offense to be moved out of state. 182 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: It is the jailhouse term is called a bus rise. 183 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: So they do it in the dark night, They do 184 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: it very quickly. They don't do a lot of talking 185 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: about it beforehand, so they try to get him moved 186 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: before any incident happened. This tells me that they knew 187 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: good and well that he was in danger, extreme danger. 188 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friend 189 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: an Insight edition that you just heard Stephen Faban and 190 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: he's talking with Chris Watch's one Time Tender Date. Now, 191 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: this is all happening during the marriage and also while 192 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: he was dating Nick let me just say dating Nicole 193 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: Castinger Nicole Kestinger as well. These are two of the 194 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 1: women that we know of he was sleeping with while 195 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: he was married to Shenan. This is while she was 196 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: ushing around trying to buy self help books to put 197 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: their marriage back together. I'll come back to you on 198 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: that with me. Doctor Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, host of 199 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: investigation discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows. Self help books didn't 200 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: help this case because all along Chris Watts had murderous intentions. 201 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: I mean, take a listen to the Tender Lover and 202 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: Inside edition Stephen Fabian. That night, Amanda says they had 203 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: their first sexual encounter. He was very rough. I would 204 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: say very rough. And you know, the best way I 205 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: can grab it is as he's almost zoned out into 206 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: a different person. Did he ever choke you or ask 207 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: to choke you? That? He did place his hand around 208 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: my neck and I am quickly kind of it freaked 209 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: me out soundly. He was very forceful, verseful. Is that 210 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: terrifying to you now, knowing that that's how he admitted 211 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: to killing his wife choking her. He had his hands 212 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: on your neck? Yeah, okay too, Alexa's trestchoke writer online 213 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: dot Com. That was his tender Let me just say 214 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: date with air quotes. WHOA. They had one cup of 215 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: coffee at a Chick fil at That's all it took, 216 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: and then they're having sex and he put his hands 217 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: on her neck. I'm telling you this is my one 218 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: of my mini mottos. You put out a hand you'll 219 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: pull back a nub okay. So obviously she did not 220 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: have the same credo. What was that one cup of 221 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: coffee from Chick fil A? And they're in the sack? 222 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: What was a cup of coffee cost at Chick fil a? Anyway? 223 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: Dollar They met on Tinder, which is a dating app, 224 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: which is totally per sex. That's exactly what the app is. 225 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: So I'm surprised he even bought a cup of coffee 226 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: in Chick fil at because it's really just about hooking up. 227 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: So they go back to her place. She said that 228 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: they acted out a rape of fantasy. So this guy 229 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: was getting really violent in the months leading up to 230 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: his arrest for murdering his children and his wife. And 231 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: the thing is about his wife. When they found her, 232 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: she was only in a T shirt, abra and her underwear, 233 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: and she had given birth to this baby in a 234 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: dirt grave. He had no regard for her life or 235 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: the life of that more baby that he so desperately wanted. 236 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: He had told her he wanted a third child. She 237 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: had a lot of health problems. She struggled with health 238 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: problems for years. So having these children was a miracle, 239 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: an absolute miracle. That's what her family said, and she 240 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: didn't one more kid. She had two perfectly healthy, beautiful children. 241 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: He convinced her he wanted more kids because it would 242 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: make their marriage even happier and more complete. She loved that. 243 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: She loved the idea of more baby. She has them, 244 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: and then he murders her while she's pregnant, dumps her 245 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: body in this dirt grave. It only took him twenty 246 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: minutes to dig a two foot grave for a woman 247 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: who was over five feet tall. Two twenty minutes. That's it. 248 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: I want to follow up on something you just said 249 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: about her overcoming all of her health problems because he 250 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: wanted baby number three. Listen to Chananne Wats his parents 251 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: speaking out on twenty twenty. Her dream was to help 252 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: her into her family. How do you describe your daughter 253 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: the guys we're here from the boat today. Oh, he's 254 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: out there trying to help people. She was fun, full 255 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: of life. She did so many things. She had her 256 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: hand and everything. She was amazing. Love you guys, have 257 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: a great day. She never gave up. She had a 258 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: vision board. What was on that vision board to make 259 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: sure her Charon had everything they are needed. She was 260 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: a good soul She was very open on Facebook. I 261 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: saw a lot of her life, hers life. I am 262 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: so excited. I'm thriving with you. I am confident, I 263 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: am torment, and I'm successful. She seemed to have the 264 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: perfect life she did. Did you believe that she was happy? Absolutely? Absolutely, 265 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: she was extremely happy. You were hearing NaN's parents speaking out, 266 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: and they were also touching on all the risks of 267 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: pregnancy when you have serious lupus, which she did. The 268 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: children just miracles. And during all of this, Watts is 269 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 1: sneaking around with his tender date. Listen. The relationship lasted 270 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: several weeks until Watts began seeing another woman, co worker, 271 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: Nicole Cassinger. The next time Amanda saw Watts, he was 272 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 1: in the headlines for killing his wife and kids. She 273 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: still can't believe she dated him. It made me feel betrayed. 274 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: It made me feel nasty, It made me feel dirty. 275 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: He had a wife at home, pregnant, two daughters at home. 276 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: I know how that hurts. I wouldn't do that. Wow. Okay, 277 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: so we know that the tender date was happening. We 278 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: know that she was pregnant after battling lupus, still battling 279 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: loop to doctor Brian Russell, psychologist, lawyer, post of IDs 280 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: hit series Fatal Vows Doctor Bryant, I mean, I don't 281 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: get it. You jump in the sack with somebody after 282 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee at Chick fil A and the 283 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,679 Speaker 1: guy acts out a rape fantasy, and I assume she 284 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: knew he was married, but it was then him dating 285 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: another woman two timing or not once but twice with 286 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: his wife and a co worker. That's what broke it off. 287 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: A cup of coffee would have done it for me. Well, yeah, 288 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: I mean, I think when you combine what you see 289 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: happening here with this tender date with what obviously happened 290 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: in his marriage, there's an incredibly important lesson for people 291 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: here because you look and see how quickly this tender 292 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: date jumped into bed with him. And here you have 293 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: this his wife, by all accounts, wonderful woman, wonderful mother, 294 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: who clearly didn't know or didn't see the signs that 295 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: were there because he was always this He didn't just 296 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: become this way. He was this way for a long time. 297 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: And she's marrying him and having these kids with them 298 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: and everything and doesn't realize how much danger they're all in, 299 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: and so you know. The lesson is if if you 300 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: can be married to somebody and not realize how much 301 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: danger you're in, then you know you're you're putting yourself 302 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: in a very risky situation in many ways when you 303 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: just hop right in so quickly like that. I mean, Russell. 304 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: Please do not get me wrong. I'm not judging. I 305 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: don't care cats and dogs sleeping together. I could not 306 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: care less who is sleeping with who. I don't care 307 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: what sex you are, I don't care. It's as all 308 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,239 Speaker 1: your business. If you're cheating on your wife, that's on 309 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: you and whoever you're cheating with, or vice versa. But 310 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: what I am saying is is this isn't about just 311 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: cheating or tender or how quickly you sleep with somebody. 312 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about murder. I'm talking about Shenan Watts buried 313 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: in a shallow grave in her t shirt and underwear 314 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: and giving birth to her baby because her husband has 315 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: beaten her and murdered her. That's what I'm talking about. Hi, 316 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here, have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, 317 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: somebody at work a crush? Fifty seven percent of Americans 318 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: admitt keeping an eye on their own online reputation. Forty 319 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: six admit to using the Internet to look up somebody 320 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: from their past. But Google and Facebook the tip of 321 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: the iceberg when it comes to finding personal information. There's 322 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: an innovative new website called truth Finder. It's now revealing 323 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: the full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search 324 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: through hundreds of millions of public records in a matter 325 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: of minutes. Members can literally begin searching in seconds for 326 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: sensitive data like criminal traffic arrest records. Before you bring 327 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: someone new into your life and around the people you 328 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: care for your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you find 329 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: may astound you. Go to truthfinder dot com forward slash 330 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: Nancy right away to start searching truthfinder dot com forward 331 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: slash Nancy truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Find the 332 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: truth Clime stories with Nancy Grace. Can you seem like 333 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: the genuine guy? You know? I mean he was funny 334 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: and he was charming. Things were not how I would 335 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: things that they were supposed to be. I guess the 336 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: front door was locked differently than it normally was. I 337 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: had my son to look in the garage to see 338 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: if her was there, and it was there, which was 339 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: really peculiar because Shanan doesn't go places without her car. 340 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: I came home and it was like I walked into 341 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: a ghost town. Like everything. She wasn't here, kids weren't here. 342 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: It was like it was just they were here and 343 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: then they were gone. Oh he's out there trying to 344 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: help people. She was fun, full of life. She did 345 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: so many things, shut her in and everything. She was amazing. 346 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: Love you guys, have a great day. Shann Watts murdered 347 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: by her husband, Chris Watts, as well as their two 348 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: little baby girls, Bella and Celeste, and baby Nico. Nico 349 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: was born spontaneously as Chris Watts had beat and murdered 350 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: his wife Shanan in the last hours. He has been 351 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: secretly moved to a maximum security facility in Wisconsin across 352 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: state borders, which is highly highly unusual. Joining me, Alexis 353 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: to Rezchuk, investigator, journalists with Radar Online dot Com. Joe 354 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,680 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, author of a brand new book, 355 00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: The Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Professor Expel State University. 356 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: Just got welcome, Ellen Colorin Joining me right now, journalists 357 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: with Crime online dot Com. Ellen, what can you tell 358 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: me about what's pretending to call local hospitals looking for Chanan? Oh? 359 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: Does it ever end with this guy? That's right, Nancy. 360 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: On the day that Shannon and her girls were first 361 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: reported missing, the police came to the home, called by 362 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: a friend, not Chris, and said, yes, guys, if you 363 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: want to start calling hospitals all we're doing other investigative work, 364 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: why don't you do that. The call logs show that 365 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: Chris made four calls to Vocal hospitals, but the officer 366 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: who was investigating and saw the length of those calls 367 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: thought they seemed suspicious. He was only on the each 368 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: call for sixty seconds or less, so the officer called us. 369 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:50,199 Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait. I'm so happy. 370 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: If you can be happy at a moment like this, 371 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: you know what. I just love it, asked Wilcott. When 372 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: a criminal outsmarts himself, okay, when the dog catches, actually 373 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: catches to steal, then what do you do? Okay? So 374 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: he trying to cover up the murders, the three murders 375 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: I consider to be four, including baby Nico who was 376 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: found in NaN's underwear. At the time her body was 377 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: recovered Ashley, he called the hospitals to act like he 378 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: was checking around, but he was only on sixty seconds. 379 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: You know, you always get put on hold at a 380 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: hospital while they're searching to try to find the person 381 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: you deal with, like three or four minutes to muse 382 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: that before you find out anything. Listen, here's what's good 383 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: news in our criminal justice system. News at Criminals are 384 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: not always smart, or in the alternative, they think they're 385 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: super smart and they're gonna outsmart, but that's how cases 386 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: are solved. And thank god he made that stupid, stupid 387 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: decision to say sixty seconds and I checked check for 388 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: my family, Ellen Killaura and with me at crime online 389 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: dot com where you can read the full twenty five 390 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 1: pages of autopsy report. We managed to get our mits 391 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: on Eka, I interrupted you just to pontificate a moment 392 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: about this idiot. I'm gonna have to go to a 393 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: shrink on this on aka doctor Brian Russell. Oh what 394 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive, 395 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 1: you know, growing up and making you never actually finished 396 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: the sentence. You just say the first half and everybody goes, yeah, 397 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 1: whatever the old saying may be. But this guy just 398 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 1: made it worse. And all of his attempts to cover 399 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: it up just made it worse and worse and worse. Yeah. Absolutely, 400 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 1: and I think that it absolutely is the case that 401 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: these people like this guy tend to overestimate how clever 402 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: and intelligent they are and how able they're going to 403 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: be to fool everybody. And I totally agree, Thank god 404 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: that's the case, because a lot of cases would be 405 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: unsolved today if these people were really as smart as 406 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: they think they are. Back to you, aka, you were 407 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: telling me about how they tried they found out he 408 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: had tricked himself by covering his tracks in this case. Yeah, 409 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: the police officer took call the hospital himself to see 410 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: how long it would take to find out information about 411 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: a patient, and it took much much longer than the 412 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: calls that Chris Watch supportedly needs. The police officer called 413 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: it a trail of concocted deceit. But there was one 414 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: way that Chris Watts wasn't able to cover his trail, 415 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: and that's because Shannon's best friend Nicole Do immediately that 416 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: something had to have been wrong, and she called police 417 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 1: that morning when Sannan missed a doctor's appointment. Because she 418 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: called police, that's how they were able to get to 419 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: the home and know that Sannon had left very important 420 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: personal belongings behind, personal belongings. But I suspect Chris Wats 421 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: probably would have tried to get rid of the first 422 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: chance he got, but he didn't get that chance. You know, 423 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: the tracks he left behind are incredible, Ellen, colorin joining 424 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: us from Crime online dot Com and the revelation he 425 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: called several hospitals to pretend he was checking up on 426 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: Shenani Sy she was in one of the hospitals. It 427 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: reminds me so much as Scott Peterson and his fake 428 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: please to bring Lacy home. You know, there's an entry 429 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: also in the discovery documents, Ellen, that Stacey Nicole Kessinger 430 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: did an online sir for Shenan Watts September one, twenty seventeen. 431 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: Isn't that before she got involved with Chris Watts secure 432 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: her dad. That's right, Nancy, that's several months before she 433 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: would have been aware of Chris Watts or Shannon Watch, 434 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: several months before the affair started. So, as you can understand, 435 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: when we saw that entry in the discovery document, we 436 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: thought that was very, very significant. And after days, weeks 437 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: even of calls to try and clarify what that is 438 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: all about. Why is Nicole Castinger searching for Shannon Watts 439 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: almost a year before the affair it starts. They've told 440 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: us that that was an error, and that's a pretty 441 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: big error. I think that's a huge error. And then 442 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: after that search, before she got involved in i A 443 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: sleeping with Chris Watts, she looked at both Shanan Watts 444 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: and Chris Watts and this is a co marker, right, 445 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: That's right, that's Nicole Castinger. Now, now that we know 446 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: that there was a major, significant error in that report, 447 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: we are still waiting on confirmation for world conscient County 448 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: District Attorney's office, she confirm other entries in the report 449 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: that suggests Nicole Cassenger was aware of Chris Watson shan 450 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: On Watts before she said she was. We need confirmations. 451 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Alexis arrestwriter online dot com. 452 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: Isn't it true that what nerve Chris Watts actually takes 453 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: the girlfriend, the mistress, Nicole Cassenger to their home and 454 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: Nan Watts had the home plastered with photos of her 455 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: and him and one he's kissing her pregnant tummy. That photo, 456 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: I mean you couldn't go in there without knowing he 457 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: was married with children. No, and the house hasn't everything 458 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: in touch that you could imagine. It has all of 459 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: her personal belongings that all the children thinks. This is 460 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: not a home that is one of them has moved out, 461 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: or that the marriage is over. This is a home 462 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: with an intact, a happy family. And yes, she was there, 463 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: and she even rode in the car the Alexis. But 464 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,239 Speaker 1: Sanan worked so hard for she was so successful at 465 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: her job that she had an eight hundred dollars a 466 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: month car allowance. And that's why she was able to 467 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: drive this luxury vehicle. Because she was such a hard 468 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: worker and she was so successful. This is what she 469 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: was given. And Chris didn't even care about that. He 470 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: drove that car on his gates with this mistress, the 471 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,080 Speaker 1: mistress that he was out with the night before he 472 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: killed his wife and daughters. They went out to a dinner. 473 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: He spent sixty two dollars, and she had said he 474 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: never paid with anything other than gift cards. They always 475 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: had a bunch of gift cards at work, and so 476 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: he always used those. But this time he used his 477 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: credit card, and the credit card charge popped up immediately. 478 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: His wife, who again was asked him working working so 479 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: hard to provide for his family gainst the alert and says, 480 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: oh my god, sixty two dollars, that is not an 481 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: amount of money a that we can afford her be 482 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: that one person should have for dinner. So she asked 483 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: him about it, and he lied, and he said, oh, 484 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: I had salmon and beer. She was so suspicious of 485 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: her husband. She and her friends they looked up the 486 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: restaurant menu online. A salmon and a beer was not 487 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: sixty two dollars. She knew in her heart that he 488 00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: was cheating on her. I don't know if she knew 489 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: that woman had been in her home, the home that 490 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: she spent years decorating and making a home for their girls, 491 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: and if someone had been in the car, the car 492 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: that she was out of town working to make money for. 493 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: And this is what he did. He threw it in 494 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: her face. And this is what twenty four hours before 495 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: he ended up murdering her in her own home, the 496 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: home or the mistress had been. Alexis Ruschek, I think 497 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: they should have tried this guy and put you on 498 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: the stand to summarize like that, because you put a, 499 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: I would be calling women in the box in the 500 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: jury box, and they here he's usually her Alexis and 501 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: bringing his mistress to their home and having sex with 502 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: her right there in front of the family photos. He 503 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: would totally get the death penalty. She's a wonderful person, 504 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: and she knew I was married. Yes, and that's where 505 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: we're going through dishes. Yes, since and that's what to that. 506 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,239 Speaker 1: You know we're going to get us. You know at 507 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: the end that you're going to get separated. Like once 508 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: I figured out what that was, I didn't know what 509 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: that was going to be, id no idea. I was like, 510 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, I saw her, took my breath away, and 511 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 1: I never thought any one of years that could happen. 512 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: How do you think I'm a figure? But it was anyboy, 513 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: anybody him all that time. Christmas on your fault. No, No, 514 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm I know you want to take care 515 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: of her, because it's because you're typing takes care of women. 516 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: You are hearing killer Dad Chris Watts admitting his affair 517 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: with Nicole Kessenger, his coworker. She is not a suspect. 518 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: She is not a person of interest at all in 519 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: his case, although I'm sure police looked long and hard 520 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: at her as being part of it, but she was 521 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: not part of this case. Joining me right now. Professor 522 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: forresis Jackson State University and author of Blood Beneath My 523 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: Feet Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, you've read the twenty 524 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: five pages of autopsy. I want to hear your impressions, 525 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: because people see things differently. But what did it mean 526 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: to you that she was wearing just her underwear, her bra, 527 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: her short sleeved shirt when she was dumb in that 528 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: shallow grave on What it means to me, Nancy, is 529 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: the fact that you know he had you know, early 530 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,239 Speaker 1: on he had talked about how there was some kind 531 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: of marital dispute and this sort of thing. Upon her 532 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: rival back home. In my opinion, based upon the way 533 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: she was dressed, she nan was taken unaware. It's my 534 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: opinion that she was reposed in bed, sleeping, completely relaxed. 535 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: She's probably laying on her side. Let's keep in mind 536 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: she's pregnant and that's why. And my thought is she's 537 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: probably laying on her left side. I think that he 538 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: may have approached her from her right rear, She's got 539 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: a focal area of hemorrhage, a large focal area of 540 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: hemorrhage on the right aspect of her neck. I think 541 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: he slowly wrapped his hands around her neck and he 542 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: choked her out right there. She's very tired, Nancy. She's 543 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: been traveling, she's pregnant. I know all of the women 544 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: in the audience that have been pregnant. You know about exhaustion, 545 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: and she's been beat to death emotionally, you know, over 546 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 1: this thing. Completely asleep and he didn't even have to 547 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: apply in the pressure to create PATIKII. There was no 548 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: evidence of that. The only trauma that she had was 549 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: actually to her neck in that particular area. But he 550 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: used the amount of pressure to take her life while 551 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: she was sleeping. It just hurts me so much to 552 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: hear this, and to hear about her actually spontaneously vaginally 553 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: delivering the baby in the midst of all this. She 554 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: had a prolapsed uterus, it revealed in the autopsy report. 555 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: Did you see that, Jo Scott Morgan? Yeah? I did. 556 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: And I think that maybe a lot of people at 557 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: home don't understand this. And I'll try to keep it 558 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: just I'll try to keep it within good measure. Just 559 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: understand that when our bodies, and all of our bodies do, 560 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: when we begin to decompose, the muscle tension in our 561 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: body is not the way it once was. And the 562 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: reason her uterus prolapsed, essentially kind of turned inside out, 563 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: is that as a result of the decomposition, the muscle 564 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: tension released and Nico, this little baby, was spontaneously delivered, 565 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: of course deceased. This is commonly referred to as coffin birth. 566 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 1: I think that this was experienced or we you know, 567 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: you reflected on Scott Peterson a little while ago, and 568 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: the same thing, if I remember correctly, had happened relative 569 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: to Lacy. And this is not something that is uncommon. 570 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: It is something that we see with women that are 571 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 1: pregnant at the time of their death, after they've been 572 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: down for a period of time. But it really drives 573 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: it really drives home the point here, you know, to 574 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: doctor Brian Russell, psychologist and a lawyer, a host of 575 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: id's fatal vows, I've got to ask you. I've been 576 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,720 Speaker 1: watching over and over at video of the Monster Family 577 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: killer Chris Watts. It's of him after he gets rid 578 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: of the bodies he drives up to a convenience store 579 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: and kind of flirty with a blinde cashier and orders 580 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: a breakfast burrito, walks out just you know, no big deal. 581 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,799 Speaker 1: He buried his wife and child stuff as children down 582 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,000 Speaker 1: those oil canisters whose openings were about eight inches wide. 583 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: We've been told dingoes and enjoys the breakfast burrito. Well, 584 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: I think that the comparison that Joe Scott made and 585 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: I know you made this earlier as well, to the 586 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: lazy Peter Scott Peterson and Lazy Peterson case is a 587 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: good one for three important reasons. One is, both cases 588 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: illustrate the incredible entitlement that is at the core of 589 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: the personality of the sociopath. I should be able to 590 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: have whatever I want, no matter who I have to 591 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: hurt to get it. Secondly, it appalls me and I 592 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: think maybe you as well, that the babies in these 593 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: cases are not considered murder victims. And the third thing is, 594 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: you know, the lesson in this for anybody who is 595 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: out there meeting people on an Internet app or site 596 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 1: and immediately going to bed with those people, the danger 597 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: that you could be putting yourself in you can't underestimate 598 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: because it could be somebody who is capable of doing 599 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,959 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff, and if their wives, who lived 600 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: under the same roofs with them, didn't see it. You're 601 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: crazy to think that you're going to see the danger 602 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: in one cup of coffee with the person too. Ash 603 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: Wilcott even I'll judge lawyer. You can find her at 604 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott dot com. Wait in, Ashley, Listen, here's my 605 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: issue with Tinder in any of these apps. You're crazy 606 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: to think. I completely agree with the respect of doctor. 607 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: You're crazy to think you're gonna know after one cup 608 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: of coffee. But listen, it's not worth the risk if 609 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: you're out there on something like Tinder. No judging. I 610 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: don't care what you do, who you do it with, 611 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,240 Speaker 1: what your choices are. You've just got to be smart 612 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: about it. And the second she heard he had kids, 613 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: she said something to the effect of, oh, I thought 614 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: it was cute. Cute. It's a whole other host of 615 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: things that you need to think about in protecting yourself 616 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: emotionally and physically and being smart about whatever decisions you 617 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,439 Speaker 1: choose to make too. Alan Khalaurain Crime online dot Com 618 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,200 Speaker 1: investigative reporter, What can you tell me about reports that 619 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: very disturbing photo shows stained clothing Shanne Watts was wearing 620 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: and she was murdered and buried in the shallow grave 621 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: by her husband. It did not match what she was wearing. 622 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: And the final picture of her alive, and that photo 623 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: was taken when she was boarding a flight home to Colorado. 624 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: This is her going home, having just bought all these 625 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: self help books to try and repair their marriage. What 626 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: are you telling about the clothing issue, Ellen, Oh, that's right, Nancy. 627 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: She was about wearing the same clothing that she was 628 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: wearing at her last photograph, which is not long before 629 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: her murder. I would have to agree with Joseph Scott 630 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: Morgan that she had gotten ready for bet she was there. 631 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: These were probably her pagamas she was prently. I think 632 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: you're right. I think you're both right, Ellen, alexis urete shut. 633 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: It just breaks my heart thinking of her out buying 634 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: those self help books while he's cooking up with women 635 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: on tender and playing out rape fantasies and juggling a 636 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: mistress at work, and the Lord only knows what else, 637 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: and she's out trying to book a cheap sexy getaway 638 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: for the weekend to repair their marriage and buying self 639 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: help books. Alexis and you know its the weekend away. 640 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 1: She got a babysitter for the weekend away so that 641 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: they could have a romantic getaway. That babysitter is the 642 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: same babysitter that he on Saturday night, he told that 643 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: babysitter they're family friends, a babysitter and babysitter's dad. He said, 644 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: I want a raffle at work. I want some free 645 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: Rockies ticket to go to the baseball game, and I'm 646 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: gonna go with my coworkers. So if your daughter could babysit, 647 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: that would be great. So she comes that she babysits. 648 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: He did not go anywhere near that Rockies game. He 649 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: went out with his mistress. He went to dinner and 650 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: went hubsex with her. And then the next day he 651 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: goes to the babysitter's house because it's her. There's a 652 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: little birthday party for the girls, and he's still lying 653 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: about everything he did. But this guy lied to everybody 654 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,640 Speaker 1: around him. And that was on Sunday. So the night 655 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,799 Speaker 1: before he's been at out with the mistress, his wife 656 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: has out of town working. The next day he starts planning. 657 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: He starts telling people cover for the murders. We wait 658 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: as justice unfolds for killer Dad Chris Watson, that Wisconsin facility, 659 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace crime story, signing off goodbye you