1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,280 Speaker 1: The guys from Paying They've kind of showed me how 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 1: much the equipment matters. 3 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot I 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 2: kind of want. 5 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 3: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 6 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 3: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 7 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: Hey, hey, everybody, welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. 8 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: I'm Shane Bak and joined as always by Marty Jerts 9 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 2: and Marty. Rarely do we have somebody that I think 10 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 2: has a higher IQ than you on the podcast, but 11 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: I believe that's the case today. Frederick Tuxson, the CTO 12 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: and co founder of track Man, is going to join 13 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: us in chat about track Man and the technology that 14 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: has really changed kind of the way we interpret golf. Marty, 15 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 2: I know you've been a track Man guy for a 16 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: long time. 17 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, you know, I do get excited talking to 18 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: tour players, But in my world, Frederick's kind of on 19 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: the in a lot of us here at Ping and 20 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 3: engineers in the golf space, kind of on the Mount 21 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 3: Rushmore of golf technologist and has kind of changed the 22 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 3: arc of golf as we know it today. So Frederick, 23 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 3: we're super excited to have you on. Thanks for taking 24 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: some time to us to spend with us. 25 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: It's an an abenia, so thank you for having me. 26 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 4: So, Frederick, I want to start here. 27 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 2: I mean track man is now kind of in the 28 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: vernacular right in terms of the way people talk about golf. 29 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: Where did the idea of track man originate from? Like, 30 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: how did that conversation come about? 31 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: It actually came around and that mine now co founders. 32 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: They were at the time they were actually owning some 33 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: of the biggest driving ranges in Europe, and they thought about, 34 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, we hitting the ball on the driving range, 35 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: but we're not getting any feedback whether this shot was 36 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: any bit longer or better than the previous one. So 37 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: the idea was that we have this facility, the driving range, 38 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: could we not enhance the value of that by actually 39 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: using technology to find out where the boat actually landed 40 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: on the ground. So at the time, I was head 41 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: of andy for a company making raiders for military applications 42 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: for a lot of the US Army proving grounds and 43 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,919 Speaker 1: the Air Force, Marine Corps, etc. So that was basically 44 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: tracking bullets and missiles. Played a lot of golf in 45 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: my in my youth and so on. So it ended 46 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: up you know, sort of being like a joint venture proposal. 47 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: But you know, long story short, I actually quit my 48 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: safe job and you know, basically insults the technology from scratch. 49 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: But the idea was to determine where does a golf 50 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: ball land on the driving range? So and my solution 51 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: to that was to track it all the way from 52 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,119 Speaker 1: launch to landing. And yeah, when we wanted to then 53 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: we had that and we solved that, and we thought 54 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: sort of more or less came over. But then we thought, oh, 55 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: how good is this actually? And then you know what 56 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: we thought was, why don't we show to this to 57 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: some of the people that really really need this information. 58 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: So that was where we thought about, you know, equip manufacturers, 59 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: club manufacturers like pain those must be in the forefront 60 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: of you know, the technology and so on. So so 61 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: we ended up making a trip where one of the 62 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: stocks on that very first trip was Phoenix, Arizona, where 63 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: I had you know, sold Ryan my in my bag 64 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: and so on, and and a somewhat functioning track man. 65 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: Actually where we came came to to Arizona and Phoenix, 66 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: there was something that happened with the wires in the 67 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: inside there. It was a prototype, so so I actually 68 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: I actually had to use the the sod Ryan. We 69 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: were we were set up for the demo in the 70 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: v I in the v I P Bay with John 71 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: Solheim sitting, you know, in the nice chest of fields 72 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: of waiting for to demonstrate and so on, and I said, sorry, guys, 73 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: there's something wrong here. Can you take a break for 74 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: an hour and then come back and then I'll make 75 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: sure that that this this would work? And they say yeah, sure, 76 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: sure enough. And then one year what one hour later 77 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: they came back and then the worked, and you you 78 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: can say, there we really realized that that this was 79 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: the you know, nobody had ever done this before. I 80 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: mean actually at the time in in Phoenix at the 81 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: Pink's test facility. There you try to at one point 82 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: have microphones buried in the ground and then by measure 83 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: measuring the delay to each of the receivers figure out 84 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: where I landed. But we got all kinds of stories 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: about grits, you know, eating the wires and not very 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: reliable and so on. So yeah, so that was the 87 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: original idea. And actually also how we sort of you know, 88 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: got to going with you guys, I mean you were 89 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: the first one to actually see the product working. 90 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty amazing. Yeah, so Shane that the proving grounds 91 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: are our range still has microphones embedded in the ground, 92 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: and we were trying to triangulate where it carried. And 93 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 3: I just love the story from Frederick that it's kind 94 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 3: of started with that problem statement and then grown into 95 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 3: what it is today. Frederick talked a little bit about 96 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: so you kind of started with, hey, let's track where 97 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 3: the ball goes, Let's do the full entire flight, and 98 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: to how the evolution of track man from tracking all 99 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 3: the ball flight, and then talk a little bit about 100 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 3: how kind of measuring the club came to be, and 101 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 3: it was measuring the club kind of a surprise to you. 102 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 3: Was that part of your grand plan? 103 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: You know? 104 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: And then we'll talk we'll kind of go towards some 105 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 3: of the new stuff you guys are working on. 106 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: Sure sure, As I said, originally the idea was to 107 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: find out where the ball landed on the ground, and 108 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: then we thought that's it, I mean, what golf is about, 109 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, controlling to land the ultimately had the ball 110 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: finish up and at the spot you have picked. So 111 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: in a way where when the first product we showed 112 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: to you guys, it only measured the ball. It only 113 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: measured the ball trajectory. And then then we of course 114 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: and you also talked about can you guys measure spin? No, 115 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: we could not at the time. Why is that important 116 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: because we measure where the ball is landed. Why do 117 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: you need the spin? And then we learned a lot 118 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: from you guys. Okay, spin is important because you know 119 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: if you play on different conditions and da da da da, 120 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: and then you you say, then you also when you 121 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: had this, when you mentioned the ball trajectory, then you 122 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: want to understand what is it that creates this ball trajectory. 123 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: So that and that's where the club data come in. 124 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: And it was it was sort of a little bit. 125 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: It was not part of the master plan. Let let 126 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: me absolutely say that. But then it was actually at 127 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: we were showing the product for actually, sorry to say, 128 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: for another equip manufacturer at the point in time, and 129 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: then I was showing our new sales director that was 130 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: only one sales people, so that was easy to get 131 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: that position. But Matt Freelich and and I was showing 132 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: him the road data and said, yeah, here's the ball 133 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: trajectory in the radar data, and here you see the 134 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: club and house approaches the ball and so on, and 135 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: then said that said, hey, hey, listen, do you see 136 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: the club? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see it here, and yeah, 137 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a negative. We didn't call it 138 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: attack angle at the point in time, but you know 139 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: it's on the under down blow and you know it's 140 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: the club is moving out to the right. And then 141 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: you went all like that and say, hey, that's massive 142 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: if we can measure how the club is delivered to 143 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: the ball. And then of course we learned that and 144 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: I went back together with my engineers and then we 145 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: figured out how we could track that reliable. So that's 146 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: what's sort of Originally it was maybe the first adopters 147 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: were equipment manufacturers like yourself for player testing, equipment evaluation 148 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: and so on, but very quickly it went into fitting 149 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: as well. But then when you added the club data, 150 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: which is also important for fitting, but for teaching and instruction, 151 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: it's huge. So that was really what sort of pivoted 152 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: is a little bit away from our original idea about 153 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: driving range. That that was where it all started, and 154 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: then we sort of went this way from to fitting 155 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: and then to instruction, and along the ways we learned 156 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: that that some of the ways that that that the 157 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: so called ball flight laws was taught, how the why 158 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: the ball is starting like it's doing and why it's 159 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: curving like it's doing. Well, that was not what was taught, 160 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: was not what's actually happening in reality. So and we 161 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: had equipment that could prove that. So so that gave us, 162 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: of course a stage to to sort of spread the message. 163 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: And because we had equipment that could prove that that 164 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 1: was not taking place. So in a way, I feel 165 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: we were quite fortunate about having that misunderstanding because we 166 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: sort of had had that opportunity, uh, to to to 167 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: to tell what what's the right golf physics. 168 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, that was interesting time for me, Frederick, because I 169 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 3: was going through the PGA of America education program, and 170 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: sure enough, all of those teachings were still in there, 171 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: the the old ball flight laws understanding, right, And so 172 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 3: here I am, you know, using track Man, going through 173 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: track Man University, uh, kind of learning all those fundamental 174 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 3: physics and kind of struggling struggling with that which which 175 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: exactly you guys were able to kind of level up 176 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 3: the entire industry. Talk a little bit about that, Frederick, 177 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: just I really appreciate what track Man has done just 178 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,199 Speaker 3: the macro level, uh level up of all the understanding 179 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 3: of impact physics and ball flights and things of that nature. 180 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 3: How important was the teaching coaching community kind of early 181 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: on as you were building the brand and getting some 182 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 3: of those concepts out there. 183 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: I mean, the the community was absolutely. I mean, first 184 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: of all, the fact that the that golf is one 185 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: of those sports, but there is a teaching community and 186 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: there is and has been for you know, decades, has 187 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: been this. That's actually one of the reasons why we 188 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: I think we've been successful as a company, because there 189 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: are other sports which we actually are entering these years 190 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: here where there's not the same teaching community and where 191 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: you have to sort of start from scratch educating and 192 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: motivate people. This is actually something that that you know, 193 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: you you need to understand what's going on here and 194 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 1: these things that can be taught and so on. So, 195 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: but it was also so that at the time when 196 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: we came out with this and that there was this 197 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: sort of old ball flight laws guy, and there was 198 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, groups that was maybe not so motivated to 199 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: learn new stuff, and then there were some that actually 200 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: were really motivated to to learn about, you know, everything 201 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: new and and those people were extremely important for us 202 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: and very supportive. Of course we we we helped them 203 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: also a lot by by listening to what is it 204 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: that they need and what can we do in order 205 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: for you to be more successful as coaches and bringing 206 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: you know, your message across to to your to your 207 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: students and so on. So so that shaped also, I 208 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: would say, the whole There was a vocabulary that that 209 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: did not exist at the time. I mean, for example, 210 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: take a thing that we today we just take for granted, 211 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: things like attack angle and a cloud path and so on. 212 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: At the time, what they were talking about when they 213 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: say cloud path or swing path, which were also discussed, 214 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 1: is actually what we today know as swing direction is 215 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: the wall swing, meaning it doesn't matter where sort of 216 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: in the swing arc you make contact with the ball. 217 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: But cloud path and attack angle matters. You know, everything 218 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 1: is where where where you hit it in the arc. 219 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: So there were some definitions that needed to be defined there, 220 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: so having the teachers to develop this language. Uh and 221 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: and because if if not, if you don't have a 222 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: language to communicate this, you can't get these messages across. 223 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: So so that was and I would like to think 224 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: that we sort of took the front lead on on 225 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: on that and and and developed that. But that was 226 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: collaboration and euseonizing that coaching space big time, and again 227 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: the forward thinking of that coaching community. And if you 228 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: look now today, where it's a lot of sort of 229 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: everybody takes this for granted, this is how we you know, 230 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: things related to each other in the golf swing and 231 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: the impacts and so on, that was not the case. 232 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: I can tell you twenty something years ago. 233 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: Frederick I was interested in you know, you have, you know, 234 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 2: the plan of a company, right, the plan of an idea. 235 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 2: I think a lot of the time, the plan of 236 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: something new is to solve X. And then as you 237 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: start to kind of uncover other ideas, you realize there's 238 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 2: other stuff to solve. I mean the idea of like 239 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: where does the ball in on the driving range? At 240 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 2: what point did you realize there was all of this 241 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 2: knowledge that hadn't been uncovered yet in terms of the 242 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 2: way people think about golf. Was this a eureka moment? 243 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 2: Was this as you guys started to kind of chat 244 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: with people in the golf world about what maybe didn't 245 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 2: exist because it feels like as you guys started to 246 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: kind of encounter OEMs and people in the golf space, 247 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: you started to feel that there was a lot of 248 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: understanding that maybe they didn't even quite know. 249 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, I mean, I would say one of 250 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: the things that we very very quickly actually, and thanks 251 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: to you guys and some of the other equip manufacturers, 252 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,959 Speaker 1: we were very very quickly sort of out on tour 253 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: and on the driving range and you know, basically measuring 254 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: on the best players in the world. And one of 255 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: the things that stood out for me and was that 256 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: there was and this is one of your friends in 257 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: the industry, I won't name drop them, and further onanth 258 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: of the bus, but they were saying a driver needed 259 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: to be launched a twelve degree launch angle and had 260 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: to have twenty seven hundred rpm. That's a good driver show. 261 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: And then we measured all the players sort of on 262 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: the there and they were all over the place, and 263 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: there was some launching it at six degrees, some at fifteen, 264 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: some had the eighteen hundred RPMs, some had your thirty 265 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 1: three thirty four hundred rpm. So how come that these players, 266 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,439 Speaker 1: the best players in the world, that have all the 267 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: equipment available at their disposal, and they're doing this for 268 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: a living, and of course they have figured out to 269 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: be what works for them and to be optimized. So 270 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: how come they are so you know, widely spread. And 271 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 1: that was sort of for me sort of there's something 272 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: missing here, there's something we don't understand here. And by 273 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: analyzing a lot of dates, I figured out the holy 274 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: grail to this is a tack angle, because if the 275 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: more you hit up on your ball, the more positive 276 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: your attack angle is, the easier it is to get 277 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: a high launch angle with a lower off the club. 278 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: The lower off the club will give you lower speed 279 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: spin rate and also higher ball speed, so that that's 280 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: where you get that high launch low spin. And if 281 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: you hit down on the ball, well you need to 282 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: have the ball up in the air, so you need 283 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: to increase the loft of your club then, but that 284 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: comes with a penalty of more spin weight and you 285 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: actually drop in ball speed also. So that was sort 286 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: of what fit all this together, and that was something 287 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: that was not understood and I had sort of had 288 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: had to Yeah, I say, develop this scratch, which was 289 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: super fun by the way, but but that was one 290 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: of the things where I could really see there's really 291 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: something missing here. And then when you add the next 292 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: layer was this, as I said, understanding, you know, why 293 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: does a ball start to the right. Is that because 294 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: your path is going out to the right. No, it's 295 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, dominantly, because your face angle is pointing to 296 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: the right. So understanding that, and what does that mean 297 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: in terms of the correction you need to do in 298 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: order to hit your decided shot shape and so on. 299 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean that was another one of those hey we 300 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: have we are lacking some information here. 301 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, Frederick, Shane's a good example. He hits generally your 302 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 3: standards shot shape. For Shane hits down on it negative 303 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 3: angle of attack what three four degrees? Usually Shane launches 304 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 3: a little bit lower, with a little bit more spin, 305 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 3: but he is he is optimized for his delivery because 306 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: Shane's Shane's Kike kind of one of your modern day 307 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 3: tour players that brings a lot of speed uh to 308 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: the table. 309 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 4: Frederick. 310 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 3: So yeah, just talk a little bit more about that 311 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 3: driver angle of attack. When that when you kind of 312 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 3: brought that those findings right to the the tour, you 313 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 3: saw a lot of players trying to work on hitting 314 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: more up and certainly the shorter, slower clubhead speed players 315 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: that kind of need to But nowadays you're seeing some 316 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 3: of the faster players still play golf hitting hitting down 317 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: on the driver. Why do you think that is? And 318 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: maybe talk a little bit about some of the stuff 319 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: you're working on you you can feel free to transition 320 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: this in to some of your some of the things 321 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: you're working on with the with the body movement tracking. 322 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is actually this was hitting down or up 323 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: on the ball. It's actually something that had changed over 324 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: the years. So in generally speaking, the the if you 325 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: look at the PGA Tour, they are generally ball up 326 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: on the ball then they used to be. So there's 327 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: definitely dinner shift. It is true that if you have 328 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: a lot of club speed, then you can say in 329 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: some ways you have the distance given to you, so 330 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: you're you're not looking for that extra yard or ten 331 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: or twenty yards and so on. Having said that, you 332 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: look at the tour today, I mean all that the 333 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: whether it's Roy mclarroy or the you know just had 334 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: here in Nikolai Hig you know driving it was at 335 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: three hundred and ninety yah, yeah, yesterday, it's they're they're 336 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: hitting up on the ball, but they're combining a high 337 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: speed with the mechanics to actually hit up on the 338 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: op the ball as well. So I I it's it's 339 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: not just because you have the speed that you you 340 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: you will still gain on hitting up on the ball. 341 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: So and and and that of course, so it is 342 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: advantageous for everyone playing this game if they want to 343 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 1: hit it further hitting up on the ball and get 344 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: fitted to a driver with the approper got loved. And 345 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: you need for every one degree, roughly speaking, you hit 346 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: up on the ball more, you need have a degree 347 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: less a lot of driver. That's sort of a general 348 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: rule of thumb. But of course it becomes interesting then 349 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: how do you I mean, ultimately, uh, you know you 350 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: have to change how you're swinging the club in order 351 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: to hit it more up on the ball. Yes, you 352 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: can move the ball more forward in your stands and 353 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: you can keep that swing, but that will come with Yeah, 354 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: you're probably the club will go both more left then. So, 355 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: but understanding how you are both generating the power and 356 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: then hitting off the ball, indicate with your driver on 357 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: the irons you do want to hit downloaded. That of 358 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: course means that we have to you know started the 359 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: body also, and I would say the evolution of how 360 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: we we've really been working sort of backwards where we 361 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: we ultimately we started measuring where the ball landed. Our 362 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: solution to that was measuring the full trajectory. Now that's 363 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: a result of how you deliver the club to the ball, 364 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: impact location, et cetera, et cetera. But that is a 365 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: consequence of how you're swinging the golf flop. Of course 366 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: there is equipment, uh, specifications and properties also involved here, 367 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: so it's it's actually sort of a completely natural step 368 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 1: that we now attractman start looking at the body. So 369 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: so we we are we are launching now marcles camera 370 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: tracking where we are using two cameras down the line 371 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: and a face on triangulate the trianguli those and then 372 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: we're giving the body motion. And what's unique about that 373 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: is this is the first time where there is body measurements, 374 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: as I say, in the same coordinate system as you 375 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: have the club delivery and the ball data. Before that, 376 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: all motion capture systems have sort of been in their 377 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: living on their own island. But of course it matters, 378 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: and just think of simple things like set up. Well, 379 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: it depends where should that ball be depends on where 380 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: your target is, So you need to know where your 381 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: target line is. So that's one of the things that 382 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: I'm really really excited about bringing out here in twenty 383 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: twenty six is to have this motion analysis to the 384 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: emotion analysis and also bridging it with the club delivery, 385 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: which ultimately is what we want to affect is the 386 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: ball trajectory where the ball is ending up, but it 387 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: all comes from the player movement and then there's some 388 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: equipment in between. 389 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 2: No, So, Marty, Marty, I wanted to ask you just 390 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 2: in terms of track Man, what is track Man done 391 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: done to your side of the business over the last 392 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: couple of decades in terms of R and D and 393 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 2: working on new clubs and new drivers, Like how much 394 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 2: easier has it made your job? Is there times where 395 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: there's so much information that it's almost made it more 396 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: complicated at times? Like how has that evolution been in 397 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,439 Speaker 2: terms of that partnership. 398 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 3: I think Frederick mentioned it, But there's a lot of 399 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 3: things now in twenty twenty six that we look back 400 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 3: and we kind of just take for granted. You know, TrackMan, 401 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 3: the way track Man works is Frederick give you a 402 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 3: lot of credit for this, it's just magic. You know, 403 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 3: you have this orange box and all these magical things happen, 404 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 3: which there's just so much really good fundamental physics and 405 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 3: calculations and algorithms. Everything that Frederick and his team have 406 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: built in there have been pretty magical. Ping has invested 407 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 3: very heavily in track Man. I think we have a 408 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 3: two hundred and fifty six track Man, but got to 409 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 3: be up there. Frederick, if not the lead in terms 410 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 3: of your customer base, and we even Shane to that point. 411 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 3: Train All of our field reps, our sales reps have 412 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 3: gone through track Man University. This is like getting your 413 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 3: bachelor's and how to use TrackMan, understand all the pretty 414 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: pretty technical kind of definitions and things of that nature 415 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 3: so that we can get the most out of it. 416 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: We've actually, we have absolutely loved having this technology not 417 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 3: only at our rain chain that we use at the 418 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 3: proving grounds for R and D testing side, club fitting side, 419 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 3: but also all the data we get from all of 420 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 3: our fittings we do globally worldwide gold mine of data 421 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 3: data mining, certainly for the club fitting standpoint, to develop 422 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 3: all of our club fitting algorithms and to have the 423 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: data feed coming in not only from ballflight, also from 424 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 3: the club. Like Frederick talked about being able to fit 425 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 3: the perfect launch conditions of a driver to the individual player, 426 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 3: you can look at the three dimensional delivery of the club, 427 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 3: which is super duper important. Then you'll open the door 428 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 3: to things beyond the driver, which is the you're gapping analysis, 429 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 3: optimizing your fairy Wood trajectory, things of that nature. You're 430 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: gapping analysis. Now we're moving into more leveraging track man 431 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: even well, Frederick, I love to talk to you a 432 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 3: little bit about this for short game and putting more, 433 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 3: and that's kind of the latest kind of deep dive 434 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 3: that we're going down at paying Frederick. I know, you 435 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 3: know we've talked about this in the last couple of years, 436 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 3: some fun research we've done on the short game side 437 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 3: and the putting side. So I would love Frederick to 438 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 3: get your two cents on. Let's say you're you're in 439 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,199 Speaker 3: indoor club fitter and you're fitting maybe wedges, you know, 440 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 3: maybe for grinds, spin generation, things of that nature. What 441 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 3: are some tips and tricks there, whether somebody using the 442 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: TM four or the IO for wedge fitting specifically indoors 443 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 3: where you kind of don't have that sound in that 444 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 3: turf interaction. What are some of the data tiles in 445 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 3: the metrics that could be important in that scenario. 446 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean for wet fitting, it's absolutely to be able 447 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: to sort of control the launch angle is a key thing, 448 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: and also getting the proper spin on the ball those 449 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: I mean, of course speed it depends on. That's how 450 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: you control the distance. But getting that sort of launching 451 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: in the right window and getting the proper spin rate. Now, 452 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: in order to do that you have to make you've said, 453 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: a proper contact to the ball, So impact location is 454 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: of course a key thing here. Also attack angle or 455 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: if you prefer to look at it as a low point, 456 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 1: is also a super important parameter in order to But 457 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: ultimately it's about how do you control your launch angle 458 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: and your spin rate? Those are the things, and it 459 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: can be one of the things that can be a 460 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: little when you go to we all we talked about 461 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: the driver and twenty seven hundred up ym the sort 462 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: of maybe was a good spin rate. Now we all 463 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: have our individual optimized spin rates, but they're sort of 464 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: in that two thousand range typically for most players when 465 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: you do short game it's in general spin rate will 466 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: be proposal to the club speed you are generating. And 467 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: that means that it can maybe be difficult to say, 468 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: on a thirty yard pitch shot, well what spin rate 469 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: should I get because you don't have anything to benchmarkt against. 470 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: So in fact, for that purpose, we created actually a 471 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: new metric which we call spin index. So basically this 472 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,719 Speaker 1: tells you relative to the actual spin rate you are 473 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: getting compared to what is the spin rate you would 474 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: have got had you got sort of a good, nice 475 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: contact with good friction between the club and the ball. 476 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: And that's index needs to sort of be ideally close 477 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: to one hundred percent. But if it's anyway sort of 478 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: above ninety, you are you are you're you're in good shape. 479 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: If it starts, you know, dropping bit below like seventy, 480 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: maybe even down to sixty, you have you have an 481 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: impact problem here. Or it could also be that your 482 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: wages the grooves on your wedges are worn out. Maybe 483 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: if if that doesn't happen in indoor settings, but if 484 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: you if you're playing you know, on real grass, if 485 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: you're getting grass or moisture between the club and the ball, 486 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: that will reduced that friction and you will immediately see 487 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: them in the spin index. So so so those those are, 488 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: you know, some of the things I would keep an 489 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: eye on. And if you're looking then to finding out 490 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: what is the best grind I get on my wedges 491 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: in order to give me make get the most consistent 492 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: launch on. Maybe it's not the one you get the 493 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,439 Speaker 1: high spin rate with, but if you're consistent and you 494 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: can count on it, that's really what what I think 495 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: is the most attractive thing. So there was about putt. 496 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: I'm just gonna ask what about putting? I mean, how 497 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: are you guys kind of implementing your technology. I mean, 498 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 2: obviously the full swing stuff was was the initial idea, 499 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: but how about putting and kind of what you can 500 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: kind of look at in that world. 501 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: I would say, first of all, we think partting is 502 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: a completely underserved area with regards to to technology and 503 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: that it goes also for for and to some extent 504 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: also understanding what's what's happening because partting is where where 505 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: I mean launch for when you when you make a 506 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: putt is sort of a wedge between a club head 507 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: and the ground, so that the actually turf condition matters 508 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: and what partting stroke to use on what turf and 509 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's it's not only the stint. There 510 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: might also be other factors that are in here. So 511 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: I would say we we are on the track man. 512 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: All we have what's called performance partting. We are again 513 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: we are tracking sort of the full trajectory of the ball, 514 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: so we are measuring the actual break and if it 515 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: hits a stone on the way, if which shouldn't be there. 516 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: But let's say we will measure that that it actually 517 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, bounces to the side. So again that's because 518 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 1: ultimately that what is what it's about is controlling where 519 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: the ball is going and how how far it's going. 520 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: But then we are measuring all kinds of things like 521 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: it's it's you know, the first phase of our part 522 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: is is actually skidding means it's actually doing micro bounces 523 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: and for every bounce there is friction between the club 524 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: and the ball, and that means that there will be 525 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: you know, jumped down in speed. You'll you will lose 526 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,719 Speaker 1: speed sort of in a in a step, but then 527 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: you will pick up some spin rate as as a 528 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: consequence of that, and that will continue to happen until 529 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: the spin rate sort of matches the the speed of 530 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: the ball at that point the ball is actually rolling, 531 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: so you have that sort of the first typically it's 532 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: it's a couple you know, it could be two feet 533 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: on on a ten ten feet part or something like that, 534 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: where the ball is actually skidding and then it starts 535 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: to roll. But that is influenced on how you you are. 536 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: What's the launch condition actually of the ball when you 537 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: when you're you are launching it typically a little bit, 538 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: you know, with a positive attack, a positive launch angle 539 00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: about two degrees and so on. So it's it's and 540 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: we're measuring all these things here, including impact, location and 541 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: so on. Uh, And I would say we are still learning. 542 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: How do we then translate this? And I know you 543 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: guys also learning is in terms of okay, what does 544 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: that mean in terms of both partting technique, and what 545 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: does it mean in terms of of you know, fitting 546 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: the potter and so on. How how do we put 547 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: these things together? But ultimately it's all about controlling where 548 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: the ball is going. And that's why we think it's 549 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: so important that everything we are doing here when we 550 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: are sort of whether we are called research or what 551 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: we do, is that we're measuring what actually happens, What 552 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: does the result of what we are doing here, so I. 553 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 4: Can, Frederick, I'm a little nervous. 554 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: Now Marty's going to have like four different strokes for 555 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 2: the different grass type. And listen, if there's anybody that's 556 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 2: going to implement that in tournament golf, it'll be Marty Jertsen. 557 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: So now you're adding like the bags. 558 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 4: When you travel. 559 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 3: Now, oh yeah, I got to measure the we'll be 560 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 3: able to pull a few metrics out of performance putting. Frederick, 561 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 3: right before the tournament round, maybe changed my stroke a 562 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: little bit. Frederick, what is the kind of quote unquote 563 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 3: ball fly laws of a putt for folks listening out there, 564 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 3: like what percentage of the start line is controlled by 565 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 3: the face to the path and what you've been seeing 566 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 3: so far for a putt specifically. 567 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for putt, I would say the starting 568 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: the action meaning what we call the launch direction is 569 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: it's almost one hundred percent the face angle of of 570 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: the of the potter. We are in something that is 571 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: ninety or more than ninety percent that is controlled by 572 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: the actual phase angle of the potter. And then the 573 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: remaining part is only the path, meaning that you to 574 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: to a high degree, you can say that the path 575 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: as such does not matter as much for for for Potter, 576 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: I do think that the path could matters for controlling 577 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: your face angle, so and and and there comes some 578 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: closure thing in as well there. But but really the 579 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: the and also control controlling the impact location, which is 580 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: is really important as well because get the consistent I 581 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: mean bold speed, which is is utually important for for 582 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: your business control. And so so it's about ninety percent 583 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: that is face angle or slightly more than that. And 584 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: that's if we look at the full game then on 585 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: on you know, like a driver, we're talking about something 586 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: like eighty five percent for iron shots to get down 587 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: to the seventies. So so yeah, that's that's what we 588 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: have seen so far. 589 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, Shane, that's all I always think back to like 590 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 3: Billy Mayfair's putting stroke, right, he had the big loop 591 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 3: and his stroke and oh you know he can't control 592 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,959 Speaker 3: the path. It's all about the start line. And Frederick 593 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 3: brought up a very nuanced point there that you see 594 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 3: all the tour players doing block practice and they're they're 595 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 3: refining their path. Well, it's probably just influencing the hey 596 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 3: their path, their mechanics are informing the consistency of face 597 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 3: face delivery and impact location. But I think Frederick, I'm 598 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 3: with you, it's a very exciting time for short game 599 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,479 Speaker 3: and putting because I feel like we'll be sitting here 600 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: in you know, two three four years looking back and 601 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 3: you we're kind of on the steep part of the 602 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: learning curve of really understanding, understanding what's going on and 603 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 3: then informing in our world, helping improve our fitting recommendations 604 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 3: and making it even more individualized, just like we've done 605 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,479 Speaker 3: with the driver launch conditions. They used to be generic, 606 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 3: now they're specific. I think that is the trajectory that 607 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 3: we're going on thanks to your guys technology on the 608 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 3: on the putting side, So I. 609 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: Totally agree with you with you and that it is 610 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: exciting times for both. I would say a short game 611 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: and for partting it's it's it's it is areas where 612 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: we maybe don't have the complete picture yet. 613 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, hopefully hopefully get that that'll help us out. Frederick. 614 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: Something I've always been interested in in terms of the 615 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 2: business of track Man is like, like who's buying them? 616 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 4: How are you guys? 617 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: Kind of where are you guys going in terms of sales, 618 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 2: like where does your but where's your focus? In terms 619 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 2: of the business of track man kind of lie is 620 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 2: in you know, tournament golf, simulator golf, you know ranges, 621 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: I mean players, Like, where's the focus for you guys? 622 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 2: As you guys continue to kind of expand and look 623 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 2: at maybe new markets or new technologies. 624 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 1: Our focus is is golf. That's That's the short answer, 625 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: because there is. And so it's one of the ways 626 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: we are now starting sort of to measure us our 627 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: success is that we estimate that that yearly there's about 628 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: two to three hundred billion golf shots hit a year. 629 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: And I know that's a estimate, but we sort of 630 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: we don't think it's far far off. Last year we 631 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,400 Speaker 1: recorded four billion golf shots. That means that there was 632 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: somebody who turned on an app, whether it was on 633 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: our range or was it in assimilator, or was it 634 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: on a drive range where it's pre installed and so on. 635 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: That happened for four billion shots last year. So we 636 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: we are we are maybe one and a half percent 637 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: penetration yet. Uh, And so I think you understand with 638 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: that ambition that there's a lot more we want to do, 639 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: but we also want to make the value of those shots. 640 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: We are recording a much more yeah, valuable to the user. 641 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: I mean, we have a huge focus on the actual golfer. 642 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,319 Speaker 1: We have a belief that we can make golfers better 643 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: and enjoy golf and more by using our technology. And 644 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: that means that giving insights in your own game, but 645 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: also make it more fun to play golf. So that's it. 646 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: It's and we don't all we're not built the same way. 647 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: Some of us range kings and like to write out there. 648 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: Some of us like to just have you know, fun 649 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: and play golf courses in as simulator and have a 650 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,840 Speaker 1: you know, a beer or drink while we are doing that. 651 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: And someplace likes to play on real golf courses and 652 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: you know it shoots scores below power and you know, 653 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: just aiming for being the best golfers in the world. 654 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: And we basically want to serve all those needs. So 655 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: it's it's ambitious. 656 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, well, I mean it's you know, for me personally, 657 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 2: like my personal relationship with track Man is you know, 658 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 2: I don't personally own a track Man, but I've hit 659 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,799 Speaker 2: a ton of golf balls with track Man in the past. 660 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 2: I had an instructor out in Arizona that would use 661 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 2: track Man specifically I think I was the first time 662 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: I really encountered it a while back, and I got 663 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 2: to the point with my instructor, Frederick, where I'd go 664 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: hit balls on the track man and I could just 665 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 2: look at the numbers. 666 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 4: And see what I was doing quote unquote wrong with 667 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 4: my golf swing. 668 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 2: And I always found that so enlightening because sure, I 669 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 2: had an instructor there that in terms of his eyeballs 670 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 2: and understanding my golf swing, he could help me. But 671 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 2: there was times where I just simply looked at the screen, 672 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 2: go look at my path, spin, attacking, all things like that, 673 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 2: and I simply knew what I was doing wrong with 674 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 2: my golf swing. That's the reason I was there. And 675 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 2: so for me, I mean, just my relationship with the 676 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,800 Speaker 2: technology made me better when I went out there and 677 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: encountered No. 678 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you can say, and there's been some voices, 679 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: as you know, are tracking making coaches sort of obsolete 680 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: and so on, But no, we're not. We're just you know, 681 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: increasing the level of the games. Of course, the coaches 682 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: need to you know, step on that train, and they 683 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: are doing that. But that's also why we have this 684 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: sort of TrackMan university and basically we're just giving them 685 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 1: better tools. But it's true that you could say you 686 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,479 Speaker 1: can help yourself more than you could in the past, 687 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 1: and it's actually fun to do that. When you first 688 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 1: when you understand, oh, I need to look at my 689 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: path that needs to be here and here, you probably 690 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: at some point need a coach to tell you, Okay, 691 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: how do I then do that? And how do I 692 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: do it in the best possible way without screwing up 693 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: other things? Right? 694 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 3: So, yeah, Frederick, one of the you know, things I 695 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 3: think track Man and Ping kind of have in common 696 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 3: is just our our focus on the engineering first and 697 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 3: being pretty rigorous to you know, we've delayed products at 698 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 3: Ping when we didn't have the performance right exactly where 699 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 3: it was. There's been a lot of times over the 700 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,040 Speaker 3: over the years we've worked with you and track Man 701 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 3: where we would, uh, we we want a new data 702 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 3: tile to come out and you're just not quite there 703 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,080 Speaker 3: on refining it yet and holding a very high standard 704 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 3: uh before you release maybe maybe a new metric and 705 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 3: new data tile and some maybe the average listener out 706 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 3: there doesn't know is that we are always getting pushed 707 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 3: software and firmware updates that get more out of your 708 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 3: guys hardware technology, which is which is very fun. I 709 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,959 Speaker 3: absolutely love products like that. Talk a little bit about 710 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 3: that internal process, uh and just that standard that that 711 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,839 Speaker 3: you hold yourself to before kind of releasing a new 712 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 3: data tile, a new metric, No. 713 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: I mean what you're actually touching upon. And I can 714 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,720 Speaker 1: say I mean that's also why we are huge respect 715 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: for for Ping and how you go around with your product. 716 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: I think actually it comes back to being you know, 717 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: even though that my co founders and I went on 718 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: in family, we we actually you know, think of it 719 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: as a family business like Ping is. And I think 720 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: when you are a family business, you're we're always playing 721 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: the long game. We have we have no benefit of 722 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,239 Speaker 1: any short games. Uh. And and if we come out 723 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,439 Speaker 1: with with you know, it has taken us many, many 724 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: years to give build up our reputation and that when 725 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: you get something from track Man, you can trust it, 726 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 1: and when you get numbers from track Man you can 727 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: trust them and so on. So and that can be 728 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: ruined in a split second if we just push out 729 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: too too much without having done rigorous testing. So I 730 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,840 Speaker 1: mean maybe I will answer your question in in in 731 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 1: in a in a little bit engineering way. But but 732 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: they're there for every parameter that we introduced me we 733 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: we could owe night toppled the number of parameters that 734 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: we output, but with I mean, we could tell you 735 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: what the speed is at apex and whatever I mean. 736 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: And yes, that is measurements. But is that something that 737 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: is useful for you or are we just giving you 738 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: one more number to relate to that doesn't give you 739 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: added value? And if it doesn't give any value, will 740 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: we not output it because then it's regundant and we 741 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: are not doing you a favor. On the contrary, another 742 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: thing is what every parameter needs to be actionable, meaning 743 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: that you it needs to have an accuracy so you 744 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,719 Speaker 1: can make an foamed decision just based on one single shot. 745 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,959 Speaker 1: Because when you're working on your golf wing, you're trying things, 746 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 1: I want to improve my cloud path or what it is, 747 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: and then you try, what if I do this, oh 748 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 1: that way, that didn't go in the right direction, or 749 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: it screwed up something else and so on. You need 750 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: to have that feedback when you're sort of exploring what 751 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,799 Speaker 1: is it, what's the right solution for me to fix 752 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: my club path? And that means that you were requiring 753 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: high accuracy of course. But then the other thing is 754 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: that if sometimes and it hurts my heart every time 755 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: I see it, there will be a data now, but 756 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 1: that is not cracked within the tolerances that we would 757 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,240 Speaker 1: like it to be. That's what we call an outlier, 758 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: and we are doing everything we can to avoid those. 759 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: If you were to guarantee it never happened, we will 760 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 1: never output in data. I mean it is uh, you know, 761 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,479 Speaker 1: sensor data. And there always are reasons for why things 762 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: can be you know, in in weird circumstances, can can 763 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: be a little bit you know of of and so 764 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,960 Speaker 1: we're doing a lot of cross checks, and we're doing 765 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: things feeling, you know, not absolutely sure that this will 766 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: be within the tolerance. We much rather have an empty 767 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: tile then running the risk of showing a wrong data parameter. 768 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: So this is what we call the outlier percentage. So 769 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 1: this is something that that you know, I asked my engineers, Okay, 770 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: how many times if you see one measurement that you 771 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: can will your I say this was not correct? I 772 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: mean if we said the ball landed, you know, five 773 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,800 Speaker 1: yards left, and you could your iic, no, it was 774 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: straight at the target. So you lose conference right there 775 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: in the in the track Man. How many good measurements 776 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: does it take to you forget and regain your trust 777 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: in track Man and the numbers we are spitting out. 778 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,720 Speaker 1: And my answer to that is it's about two hundred. 779 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,120 Speaker 1: So that means our outlier percentage has to be below 780 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: point five percent. For some measurements, there's a much lower 781 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: tresshold than there, But that means that that making sure 782 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: that we have an accuracy where it actually makes the 783 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,320 Speaker 1: parameter useful and we are not running the risk of 784 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,479 Speaker 1: outputting a bad number and at the same time having 785 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,320 Speaker 1: a pickup rate where you don't you know, it's not 786 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: like only every second shot, but you can actually count 787 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: on getting it and then once in a while you 788 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: might see an empty tile. That's really what I think. 789 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: What we have made very different from every other technology, 790 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: measurement technology you see out there, and we have benefited 791 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: a lot from doing that. Even though it is frustrating 792 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: to see empty tiles, but it's much better than seeing 793 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:35,720 Speaker 1: a wrong number. 794 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 2: Frederick, before we let you go, what about track Man's 795 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 2: venture into other sports? Obviously you know this conversation typically 796 00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 2: is focused in and around golf, but I mean always 797 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 2: the interest I think is to venture into you know, 798 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 2: maybe another sport it's similar to golf, something like a 799 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,839 Speaker 2: baseball or a hockey or a tennis. How's that world 800 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:55,399 Speaker 2: for you guys. 801 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,640 Speaker 1: Well, actually we have been active in baseball. We started 802 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: in baseball in two thousand eight because we brought this out, 803 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: you know, to especially to the US in the golf 804 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: and they immediately told you, guys need to go to baseball. 805 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,360 Speaker 1: They're crazy about data. The only thing they have is 806 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: a speed gun. You need to take this to baseball. 807 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,359 Speaker 1: So we started on that in two thousand and eight. 808 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,439 Speaker 1: But you know, we're based out of Denmark. We don't 809 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 1: play baseball here. We have sero knowledge about that. So 810 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: we had to learn and a long story short is 811 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 1: that we had to go directly into the MLB stadiums 812 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,200 Speaker 1: because they didn't know what good data looked like. What 813 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: is twenty two hundred our pm and a fastball good? 814 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: They didn't know, so we had to figure it out. 815 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: So we had to measure the best guys and making 816 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 1: a stadium system that can do this. But actually today 817 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: this is actually a significant part of trackment business. It's 818 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 1: about eighteen percent of our total turnover is baseball. And 819 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,400 Speaker 1: now we're also in softball, diamond sports as we call it. 820 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 1: We had the last few years we have entered also 821 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,520 Speaker 1: American football, so we started started with the kicking, but 822 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,279 Speaker 1: we're just released also some quarterback applications and then what 823 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: I call real football, sorry, but soccer. We also have 824 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 1: an application for that. And but both for I would 825 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 1: say for for kicking in American football, the the quarterback 826 00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:34,239 Speaker 1: and especially soccer. There's not this same teaching humunity, so 827 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: knowing you know what's good and so on. We have 828 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: to learn that from the bottom. So it's taken a 829 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: little bit slow, I would say, to penetrate. It would 830 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: be fantastic market, I'm sure in a few years, but 831 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: at least we have started on that. And then maybe 832 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm breaking a small secret here but saying but we 833 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,800 Speaker 1: will also will be launching this year a quick product. 834 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so it's it's actually the second biggest sport 835 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: in the world, and you know, we can leverage a 836 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: lot of what we have developed for for baseball, so 837 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: we'll we'll do cricket and have gained a lot of 838 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: interest from the beta testing we've been doing so that 839 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: that's quite exciting but very cool. No matter what we 840 00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,239 Speaker 1: do if for the foreseeable future, I can only see 841 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: golf maintaining it's sort of eighty percent of our revenue 842 00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,480 Speaker 1: and focus and all that. There are so many opportunities 843 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:34,360 Speaker 1: still within that. 844 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 4: Frederick. 845 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 2: What's it like for you guys when you go to 846 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 2: a major championship and you're down on the range on 847 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 2: a Tuesday or Wednesday and you see, you know, a track. 848 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,439 Speaker 4: Man after TrackMan after TrackMan on the range. 849 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 2: I mean, is it still a pinch me moment for 850 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 2: you guys when you see the best in the world 851 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 2: using your product, relying on your product. 852 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 1: It's it's it. I mean it sounds maybe a little bit, yeah, 853 00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: spoiled whatever, but but I've gotten used to it. But 854 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: then once once in a while, once in a while, 855 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: then when I take a break and you know, take it, 856 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, standing in the shade and I'm looking out there, 857 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: and then I'm seeing all these orange boxes that you know, 858 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,399 Speaker 1: you have all the best players in the world. They say, huh, 859 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: really changed something here, But but you know, it's and 860 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: and you know, I talked to all the the the 861 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: players and and how they're using out to God, It's 862 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: it's fascinating and it's truly is rewarding. And of course, 863 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,080 Speaker 1: you know, being there with the best players in the 864 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,040 Speaker 1: game is very, very rewarding. 865 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, but I'm sure it's similar to Marty. 866 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,960 Speaker 2: You know, like Marty using a driver he developed, and 867 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 2: all of a sudden you see somebody using it to 868 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,680 Speaker 2: win a big golf tournament and you're you kind of 869 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:50,800 Speaker 2: go wow that. I remember the early days of R 870 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 2: and D when we were you know, we were drawing 871 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,520 Speaker 2: stuff on a computer and then all of a sudden 872 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 2: you got love Watson using the driver to hit at 873 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,239 Speaker 2: three thirty on the middle of a fair way. 874 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: You know that there are those moments there and and yeah, yeah, 875 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: it's it's I never got bone of it, I would say, 876 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: But yeah. 877 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,359 Speaker 3: Frederick, I know you're you're a key, You're you're a keen, 878 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,560 Speaker 3: passionate golfer yourself. Yeah, what is a if you have one, 879 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 3: what is a data tile or metric or maybe it's 880 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 3: a plus minus number in track man that that you 881 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,600 Speaker 3: work on in your own game that maybe, uh is 882 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,239 Speaker 3: less common by other players or teachers. Is there any 883 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,080 Speaker 3: is there any little secrets in there that you you 884 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,680 Speaker 3: you found that having having built the technology that you 885 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,320 Speaker 3: think is important that you work on that. 886 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: Maybe others don't, No, actually not, I'm I'm looking at 887 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: the same thing as a Scottish chafferin Roy Mceroy and 888 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: those guys. I when I practice, of course I look 889 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,759 Speaker 1: on my carry. I mean, understanding how far I hit 890 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: the ball is absolutely crucial depending on on what I'm 891 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,320 Speaker 1: working on. I think maybe the biggest thing for me, 892 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,480 Speaker 1: what I always have off on the screen because I 893 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: struggled maybe a little bit with me with it is 894 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: consistency of impact location. That is that is key for me. 895 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: Even even though that you know I've trained, especially on drivers, 896 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 1: I can feel where I impacted now. I can you know, 897 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:23,440 Speaker 1: tell whether it's you know, heal high, low, tow center 898 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: and so I can feel those things now, but it's 899 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,960 Speaker 1: still getting get quantified. That that that that that's a 900 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,920 Speaker 1: key thing to to look at, and especially with irons. 901 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 1: And you talked about the short game before. Unfortunately, I 902 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 1: have a tendency to hit it on the toe on 903 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: my short game and sometimes you know that that it 904 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:42,839 Speaker 1: comes up short. 905 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 4: That's the reason, Marty, do you have a talent you 906 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 4: focus on? 907 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: Uh? 908 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 3: I mean it depends on which it depends on kind 909 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 3: of what I'm working on my mechanics, I mean, my 910 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 3: my coach, my teacher, Andy Patnaw track man user. Locally 911 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,200 Speaker 3: we work on Yeah, vertical swing plane a lot, swing direction, 912 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 3: vertical swing plane driver. I'm always looking at angle of 913 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 3: attack impact. Yeah yeah, angle attacks a big one for me. 914 00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:14,759 Speaker 3: So those are kind of the core ones. Certainly short 915 00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 3: game stuff we're having a lot of fun playing around with. 916 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 3: I think, just always making sure ball speed, launch spin 917 00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 3: is good. I'm a big believer. I you know, We've 918 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 3: done a lot of stuff out there. There's a lot 919 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 3: of different thoughts on shaping the driver, having some spin axis, 920 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,920 Speaker 3: tilt or not. I like the beauty call me a 921 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 3: theorist here, but of the dead straight shot for maximum distance. 922 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 3: So I'm always trying to reduce my spin axis for 923 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 3: me personally, I know different players have different thoughts and 924 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 3: strategies around that one. 925 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 4: No deviation with the driver. 926 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 2: Well, Frederick, we could go on with you, probably for 927 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 2: hours on end, but we don't want to take up 928 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,960 Speaker 2: your entire day. As I said off the top, it's 929 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 2: crazy that the word track band has become what it 930 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,280 Speaker 2: is in golf. 931 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 4: I mean it's because you know, you think about Kleenex. 932 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,000 Speaker 2: You know, it's basically the the term we use when 933 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 2: we talk about tissue paper, right, I mean, track man 934 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,880 Speaker 2: is basically the way we think about data when it 935 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,240 Speaker 2: comes to golf balls and swing plane and golf clubs 936 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 2: and all that. 937 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 4: And so congrats to you guys. It's been awesome to 938 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 4: chat with you and we'll have to do it again soon. 939 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having me here. It's been 940 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,400 Speaker 1: super fun talk to you, Shane and always find to 941 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: talk with you, Mady. 942 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 3: Dido, Frederick, thanks for coming on. 943 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,320 Speaker 4: This is the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast