1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: Well, Jlon Muski is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,319 Speaker 1: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 3: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: it will be different. 8 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 4: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 3: on him. Alon Musk is a scam artist and he's 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 3: done nothing. 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 5: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome to the elan Ink, 13 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 5: Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's July second. I'm 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 5: your host, David Papadopolis. Today is a big day for Tesla. 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 5: The company reported its quarterly sales numbers. Than they are 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 5: not too bad. We'll dig into Tesla's potentially changing fortunes 17 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 5: after a terrible start of the year. First, though, we'll 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 5: do a lightning round of odds and ends, starting with 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 5: some low Earth orbit news, where SpaceX has scored a 20 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 5: NASA contract to blast a space station into the ocean, 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 5: just as the company's valuation soared above two hundred billion dollars. 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 5: And in Washington, the Supreme court rendered some opinions that 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 5: could have an impact on X in a very consequential 24 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 5: election year. And to wrap up, we'll examine somewhat seriously 25 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 5: Elon's bid to turn X into Pinterest. So for our roundup, 26 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 5: we have Ace Elon Musk, reporter Dana Hull, Allow Dana Hey, 27 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 5: and Max Chapkin, BusinessWeek senior writer in Max. Good Day, David, Max, Now, 28 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 5: I noticed that last week while you're on there were 29 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 5: an awful lot of F bombs. I want you to 30 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:06,559 Speaker 5: keep it clean. This week I got some listener mail. 31 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 3: Did you really No? 32 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 5: Okay, So Dan, we're going to start with you in 33 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 5: our news roundup. SpaceX gets to create something called the 34 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 5: Space Station deorbit Vehicle. What the heck is that? 35 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, So the International Space Station, which has been like 36 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 4: this home away from home for astronauts, is going to 37 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 4: be retired. It is expected to be retired in twenty 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 4: thirty and NASA needs help getting this station like out 39 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 4: of space. And so SpaceX won this contract, which is 40 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 4: worth up to eight hundred and forty three million dollars 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 4: to sort of deorbit the space station. 42 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 3: And so my. 43 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 4: Understanding is that SpaceX is going to create some kind 44 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 4: of vehicle that's going to help guide the space station 45 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 4: back through the Earth's atmosphere, at which point it will 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 4: blow up and then like fall into the ocean. 47 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 5: So Max, how cool is this? Not only do you 48 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 5: get to blow this thing up, you get had to blow. 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: Up objectively probably the coolest government contract you could possibly win. 50 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 3: But I will say this is like a weird It's 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: kind of weird. 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: Like SpaceX's whole deal is like they are a commercial provider. 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: They just sell these launches, and this is obviously a 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,920 Speaker 2: custom project. You know, this is kind of like an 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: old school What it feels like is like an old 56 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: school defense contract, the kind of thing that SpaceX would 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: have criticized maybe in the past. On the other hand, 58 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: objectively cool contract, I don't see how you turn it 59 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 2: down create stuff. 60 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 5: I mean, then press release from NASA. I got a 61 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 5: kick out of NASAU selects International Space Station US de 62 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 5: orbit vehicle. Now here's the thing, though, Dan, about this 63 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 5: deorbit vehicle. My sense is that SpaceX Elon and the 64 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 5: crew they get to create it, and they have a 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 5: large budget now to do so, but they do they 66 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 5: actually get to do the blowing up themselves, So they 67 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 5: have to turn this baby over to the end up 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 5: NASAU crew to handle that part of it. 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 4: I understanding is that SpaceX develops the de orbit spacecraft 70 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 4: and then turns. 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 3: That over to NASA. 72 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 5: That's kind of a down and. 73 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 4: SpaceX are like long term partners. I mean, NASA was 74 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 4: key to like SpaceX even becoming company. And so I mean, 75 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 4: I don't know the contract could be modified going forward. 76 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:25,239 Speaker 1: Maybe it will how much in the it's a robot. 77 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 5: I just say, I'm just saying this. You know, one 78 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 5: of the in addition, in addition to being a great industrialist, 79 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 5: Elon apparently is quite the gamer. You could see him 80 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 5: just like gaming out on this thing, controlling it as 81 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 5: it's gonna blow this thing up. 82 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 2: I mean reading stories about this, you know they're going 83 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 2: to drop it in some part, some part of the 84 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: ocean that's like Asteros, not a lot of I guess 85 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: marine life or whatever, but this is like the area 86 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 2: of the ocean where they. 87 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: Dump old spaceships. 88 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: So it'll it's the whole thing is fascinating, and you know, 89 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 2: hopefully by the time they do this, we'll have you know, 90 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: a station on the Moon or something. 91 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 5: One would hope. Okay, Max, in other SpaceX news its 92 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 5: valuation is up, up and up. 93 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 94 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: So SpaceX, as we've said on this podcast many times, 95 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,239 Speaker 2: is a privately held company. It's a little bit unusual 96 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: because it's been around for a long time, and you 97 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: have employees and investors who've been who've held stock in 98 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: the company for many years, if not more than a decade, 99 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: and private companies essentially like this will make tender offers. Well, 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: they'll essentially offer to buy shares of longtime shareholders using 101 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: external capital. The reporting suggests that the valuation is two 102 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 2: hundred and ten billion dollars, substantially up from before. I 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: will just say, you know, these tender offers, these valuations 104 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: are not public markets valuations. Anytime we're talking about private 105 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: market valuations. It's not like the definitive value of this thing. 106 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: It's just sort of like what the company is telling 107 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 2: investors that it thinks it is worth. 108 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 5: Well. But if it is the latest transaction that's happening, 109 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 5: so at sub level, that does set a price. I mean, 110 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 5: I guess the fact that SpaceX is willing to pay 111 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 5: that price for the shares indicates that it thinks it's 112 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 5: worth that much. I mean, but yeah, as you were 113 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 5: saying it's climbed quite a bit. I think towards the 114 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 5: end of last year was at one hundred and eighty billion, 115 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 5: and then two hundred billion, and now two hundred and ten. 116 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 5: It is a very very, very very large private company. Remember, 117 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 5: the vast bulk of Elon's companies are privately held companies, ie, 118 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 5: not companies that trade in public stock markets, Tesla being 119 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 5: the loan exception. But it is SpaceX that is by 120 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 5: far the most valuable, and at this point I would 121 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 5: say on the cuspmax of being the most valuable private 122 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 5: company in the world right now, the only larger one 123 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 5: is Byte after bite after Byte Dance, right, owner of TikTok. 124 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 5: But if SpaceX's valuations up up and up, Byte Dances 125 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 5: valuation is going in the exact opposite direction, right But Dan, 126 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 5: I got to say on that does SpaceX and Star 127 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 5: do they stay private or go public? Given how worked 128 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 5: up Elon is getting about the Delaware court as it 129 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 5: relates to Tesla and all the hassles of having to 130 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 5: be a publicly traded company, man, I got to think 131 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 5: that these companies stay private. 132 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think Elon likes being a public company. 133 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 4: CEO I mean it opens you up to just far 134 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: more scrutiny. You've got to deal with earnings every quarter. 135 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: I mean I think he you know, he tried to 136 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 4: take Tesla private back in twenty eighteen and then had 137 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 4: to back out of that when when it was clear 138 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: that that was going to be way harder to do. 139 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: That he realized. 140 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 4: And the whole thing with the funding secured at four 141 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 4: twenty and the saudis so. But yeah, I mean, why 142 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 4: go The only the reason to go public, it's it's 143 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 4: really a fundraising event. Like you go public because you 144 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 4: need to raise money. If SpaceX can continue to raise 145 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 4: money from private investors and venture capitalists and private equity 146 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 4: and get these lucrative government contracts, like, I don't think 147 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 4: he would want to go. But yeah, I mean Gwen 148 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 4: shotwell All, the president of SpaceX, you know, at an 149 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: investor conference a couple of years ago, said that she 150 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 4: could see spinning Starlink out at some point when Starlink 151 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 4: had positive revenue. I don't think they're there yet. But 152 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 4: if you're elon, like, what upside is there to going public? 153 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: There's a serial case for going public is that you know, 154 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 2: his his like ability to raise capital from the public 155 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: markets is much greater. 156 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 5: Because you get to tap into all that. 157 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: I mean, we just saw like the retail investors of 158 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: Tesla gave him just just you know, wrote him a 159 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: fifty billion dollar check after declining. Like you know, you 160 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: can like Elon Musk as as persuasive as he is 161 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: with you know, major private. 162 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 5: Market investor retail crowd. 163 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 3: It's the retail crowd that really, you know, will will 164 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 3: go for this. 165 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 5: That's fair. Here's my prediction. He neither IPO's SpaceX or starlink, 166 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 5: but does an IPO spin off of his de orbit 167 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 5: vehicle unit. Okay, well, we'll see how this first one does, 168 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 5: uh in a few years when they try to blow 169 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 5: this thing up up. Okay. In other news, down in Washington, Max, 170 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 5: the Supreme Court had a couple of big rulings on 171 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 5: social media that could affect Elon Musk's X. Tell us 172 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 5: all about. 173 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: Them, all right, So the top line here is that 174 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: the status quo for social media stays the same. But 175 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: just going a little bit deeper on that, you had 176 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: a case about a week ago where a couple of 177 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 2: states had sued the Biden administration over essentially accusations that 178 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: came up during the Twitter Files. This was the idea 179 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: that the government was, you know, improperly influencing social media companies. 180 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: Supreme Court said, now, this is a bit of a 181 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: rebuke to the for people who really thought the Twitter 182 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 2: files were a big game changer. Essentially said that there 183 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: was no reason to think that this had actually happened 184 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 2: in any kind of sustained way. There was a second 185 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 2: sort of set two cases that the Supreme Court kicked 186 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: back to lower courts earlier this week, and these were 187 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: over laws in Texas and Florida that we would essentially 188 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: prevent social media companies from doing the kind of moderation 189 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: that they do previous that they do currently. So it 190 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: was saying, like, you know, you're not allowed to like 191 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: throw somebody off a platform. You have to give people 192 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: like an absolute right to free speech on social media. 193 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: That's kind of Elon Musk's position. 194 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: The Court effectively is saying that for now, social media 195 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: companies have free speech rights as well, which means that 196 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: they can sort of do whatever they want with their platforms. 197 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: So that's the stat This is a status quo stays 198 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: the same. Now, does this affect Elon Muskin anyway? 199 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: Probably not. I mean, like. 200 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 2: His his sort of maximalist view of the First Amendment 201 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 2: could be seen as being rebuffed. But for now, you know, 202 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 2: X will just continue operating as as it's operated. 203 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 5: Actually, And as a result, the effect on the twenty 204 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 5: twenty four campaign and use of social media in the 205 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 5: twenty twenty four campaign and disinformation campaigns, any impact there? 206 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: No? Well, like I said, status Quo is going to 207 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: say the same. 208 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that there are that probably like 209 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 2: public pressure on social media companies matters, because these companies 210 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: have constituencies that include like investors and users and so on, 211 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: and if and if a social media in the same 212 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: way that you can kind of like work the refs 213 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: like in a game and sort of push them towards 214 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: making decisions that are close to. 215 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 5: What you like. I gotcha. So we are now joined 216 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 5: by Bloomberg's Global autos Are Craig Trudel to talk about 217 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 5: tesla second quarter sales. Craig, welcome, Thanks for having me. Okay, so, Dana, 218 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 5: we will start with you though here tell us what 219 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 5: exactly were the numbers and how should we interpret them? 220 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, so, Tesla delivered four hundred and forty three thousand 221 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 4: nine hundred and fifty six vehicles in the second quarter. 222 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 4: Those are global figures. It was still a five percent 223 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 4: year of year decline, but the numbers that were released 224 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 4: this morning were better than what analysts were expecting, and 225 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 4: you're seeing the shares move higher as a result. 226 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 6: This is a matter of a few thousand vehicles more 227 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 6: than analysts we're expecting. I think, you know, the consensus 228 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 6: that we had was about a five point eight percent decline, 229 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 6: So all of one percentage point has meant you know, 230 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 6: a roughly ten percent move just this morning, which is 231 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 6: really remarkable but also kind of par for the course 232 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 6: with this this stock. You guys have had Esha Day 233 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 6: on here before to kind of talk about Tesla as 234 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 6: a stock and how much that's a big aspect of 235 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 6: the story for this company. When this name gets momentum, 236 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 6: it really moves in dramatic ways, and we've seen that, 237 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 6: you know, just in the last few weeks. You know, 238 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,959 Speaker 6: even as everybody was anticipating these numbers weren't going to 239 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 6: be that great, there's been so much emphasis and focus 240 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 6: on the future, in no small part thanks to Elon 241 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 6: and his comments at the annual meeting recently. 242 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, so on the stock. We spent a fair amount 243 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 5: of time in the first half of the year talking 244 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 5: about its cratering it had at its nadir back in April, 245 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 5: it was down almost fifty percent. It was quite the plunge. 246 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 5: It has roared back since, as you guys are alluding to, 247 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 5: It's gained more than fifty percent since then, and really 248 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 5: isn't down much year to date at all. Now, So, Craig, 249 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 5: how do I square that rebound with these sales numbers 250 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 5: that just came out again? I get that the sales 251 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 5: numbers weren't quite as bad as expected, but they were 252 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 5: still down. 253 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 6: I suppose. I mean, I guess this has always been, 254 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 6: you know, a story stocked to some degree, right, I mean, 255 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,560 Speaker 6: it's always been the case that, you know, if you 256 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 6: talk with a sort of more traditional automotive analyst, that 257 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 6: they've generally, you know, and very consistently said that this valuation, 258 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 6: you know, doesn't make a sense in their universe. But 259 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 6: as long as you're looking at this as a tech 260 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 6: company and putting that serious amounts of value on businesses 261 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 6: that don't exist in in the case of robotaxis or 262 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 6: optimist robots, you can sort of put whatever number you 263 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 6: like on this and Elon you may call you something 264 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 6: other than boneheaded. 265 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 4: The other thing I was just going to point out 266 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 4: about the release today is that they flagged their energy 267 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 4: storage numbers. You know, so Tesla has two divisions, automotive 268 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 4: and energy storage. Energy storage is when they sell these 269 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 4: big batteries known as megapas to utilities like pgene and 270 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 4: the power wall to consumers, and like, the energy division 271 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 4: has always played this big back seat to automotive in 272 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 4: terms of revenue, but now with the automotive sales obviously 273 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 4: no longer showing robust growth, they're like really flagging energy 274 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 4: is like this big growth thing. So it was just 275 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 4: funny to see in a quarterly release that's all about 276 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 4: vehicle deliveries that they flag how awesome the energy sales 277 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 4: are going. And I think you're going to see Elon 278 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: talk a lot more about energy on the earnings call 279 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 4: later this month. 280 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a little bit of the active diversion and confuscation. 281 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 5: That is the second time recent week, Stana, that you 282 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 5: brought interview storage up. I feel an entire segment or 283 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 5: episode coming up on that topic soon. Max, though, how 284 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 5: did you take the number? 285 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: I just like Craig is saying, We've been talking for 286 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: months about what I think, in retrospect was a really 287 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: kind of audacious move by Elon Musk. We have a 288 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: car company that is priced like a growth stock that 289 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 2: has stopped growing, and we've been talking for a long 290 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: time about how that's a pretty big problem. 291 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 3: We're a growth stock and you're not growing. That's problem. 292 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: And what we've seen is Elon Musk, over the course 293 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: of several months, essentially reframe the story. And now it's 294 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: been reframed. It's no longer a car company. He's said 295 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: that a million times, despite the fact that as we 296 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: see from these delivery numbers, they sure saw a lot 297 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 2: of cars, seems to be the bulk of their revenue. 298 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: But nonetheless, you know, what the investors are clearly focused on, 299 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: and we've seen this now in the stock reaction today, 300 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: in the payvote, you know, over the last several months, 301 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: is is this autonomy story. And what's interesting here is 302 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 2: getting lost. So they sold almost all of these sales 303 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: are Model three, Model Y that's the kind of lower 304 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 2: end car. Tesla also sells, of course models Model X 305 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: and a Sign. 306 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 5: They basically sell almost none. 307 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: Of those and remember we talked about at this at 308 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: the end of last year, like wow, you know the 309 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 2: cyber truck, this, this could really, you know, change the 310 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 2: game for Tesla. You know, pickup trucks are are the 311 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: best selling category. 312 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 4: You don't even break it out separately, it's under it. 313 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 2: It looks like a very very small number twenty thousand 314 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: total other models. So I mean you're talking about, you know, 315 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: number of cyber trucks that you know, would be insignificant 316 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: to like a Toyota, Ford or whatever. So it's just 317 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: pretty staggering first of all that that the company has 318 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: gone in this direction, and then also that investors are 319 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: are up for it, they like it. 320 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, so, Craig, I actually I've been thinking about this 321 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 5: for a while now. At this point on the model 322 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 5: S IS and X IS, and you know, these are 323 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,120 Speaker 5: older models that are selling at this point negligible amounts. 324 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 5: As Max is saying, it's all about the why, It's 325 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 5: all about the three. The cyber truck is just ramping up. 326 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 5: If it even goes anywhere, why not put a bullet 327 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 5: in the s in the ax. Aren't they just a distraction? No? 328 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 6: I think they do still sell for for fairly significant 329 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 6: amounts of money, and so perhaps you can kind of 330 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 6: make the argument that you know, continuing to amortize, you know, 331 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 6: the investment in those vehicles makes some sense. But as 332 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 6: as we do look ahead to you know, where this 333 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,200 Speaker 6: company is going, and you know, sort of pay close 334 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 6: attention to the fact that you know, Musk is very 335 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 6: much you know, focused on autonomy and on robotaxis to 336 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 6: the extent that he is able to actually stand up 337 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 6: that business and does want to sort of, you know, 338 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 6: put more emphasis on that going forward. Would it make 339 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 6: sense to potentially, you know, switch up the existing factory 340 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 6: capacity that you have to make those vehicles over you know, 341 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 6: ones that now are quite long in the tooth that 342 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 6: Musk has said, we probably shouldn't keep making them anymore 343 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 6: and are really just sort of doing so for posterity reasons. 344 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 5: On the fleet point in general, and this has come 345 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,719 Speaker 5: up a fair amount in the past, but I suppose 346 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 5: it's going to keep coming up, not just the S 347 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 5: and the X, but the totality of the fleet, with 348 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 5: the exception of the cyber truck, Dana. As I drive 349 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 5: around the streets of the Tri State area, Man, these 350 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 5: teslas they do it? Should they just look old and tired. 351 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 5: I mean you drive around, you bump into you know, 352 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 5: you see Rivians in the wild and some of the 353 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 5: new Fords, and the key is in the VW's It 354 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 5: just seems like these are just yesterday's cars. 355 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 4: I think the calculation that Elon Musk made is that 356 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 4: look like they were the first company to really bring 357 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 4: electric cars into the mainstream full stop. But now electric 358 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 4: cars are quite common and here in California, same thing. 359 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 4: I mean, I see Rivians, I see a lot of Hyundaies, 360 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 4: and like being an electric car maker is no longer 361 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 4: enough to set you apart from the pack. What sets 362 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 4: you apart from the pack is that you are electric 363 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 4: and fully autonomous, and that is what Elon is going for. 364 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 4: And Craig and I have had long debates back and 365 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 4: forth about whether this is like real or vaporware, and like, 366 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 4: at what point does Tesla actually get you know, level 367 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 4: five regulatory approval. I mean, that's all very still very 368 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 4: high in the sky. But Musk believes in his heart 369 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 4: that they are on the cusp of full autonomy and 370 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 4: he just wants to be like he wants to be 371 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 4: valued as a tech company. He sees Nvidia and all 372 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 4: these other players getting these crazy valuations, and he wants 373 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 4: Tesla to be thought of in that vein, and so 374 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 4: he is all about like Tesla doesn't really just make cars, 375 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 4: they are making autonomous. 376 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 5: So then your point is he's not up for playing 377 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 5: this game that the traditional car makers play, which is, hey, 378 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 5: we're going to refresh our fleet every shing. 379 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 4: I think that Elon is just bored of making cars. 380 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,240 Speaker 4: It's like very capital intensive and like he's always been about. 381 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 5: And he's board making cars, but he wants them to 382 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 5: pay him some odd billion dollars when car making is 383 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 5: your main job. 384 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 4: Right, But he's been at this for a very long time. 385 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 4: It is capital intensive, it is grueling, you're fighting for 386 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 4: market share. He's got byd coming out like after him, 387 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 4: Like he's just like he like just constantly refreshing models 388 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 4: and constantly coming out with new models is just it's 389 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 4: boring for him. 390 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 5: I mean you could see it Nickel Dimes stuff. 391 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 4: It wants to be, you know, he wants to be 392 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 4: like cutting edge, mister future, and that's. 393 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 5: Our time as you as you've often said, I do think, 394 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:37,880 Speaker 5: you know. 395 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 2: For Elon Musk and for the people who sort of 396 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 2: buy this it's the the comparison is a tech company, 397 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: not not a car company, you know. And I think 398 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: all along the reason they are not refreshing the Model 399 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 2: three or whatever, and the reason this is happening is 400 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 2: because Musk has long seen like the model as Apple, Right, 401 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 2: the iPhone form factor is has been essentially unchanged for 402 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 2: almost the entire time that the iPhone has you know, existed. 403 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 2: Every other company's you know, iPhone like device looks exactly 404 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 2: like it. 405 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 5: Right. 406 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: The differentiator is the software and that's what Musk sees. 407 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 5: Right, and those he would argue, those are where the 408 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 5: refreshes come. 409 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I. 410 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 2: Think there are real questions about whether that is how 411 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 2: consumers feel. And even when we're talking about atimomy, Dana 412 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 2: is saying, like, you know, talking about oh, well, you know, 413 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: maybe they'll get the level five approval or whatever. I 414 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 2: you know, obviously, like, there are so many questions there, 415 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 2: and I think it's going to take way longer. 416 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: Than Elon Musk assumes. 417 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 2: But then the on the other side, there's a question 418 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,919 Speaker 2: of do consumers care like is like it is the 419 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 2: assumption that this is a game changer going to be 420 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: true for a regular person who drives a regular car. 421 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 2: And we don't know answer that question yet, but we 422 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: have seen some signs and like one of which is 423 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like there have been that successful in 424 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: selling full self driving or whatever you want to call it, 425 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 2: this aid ass system to customers. Customers, they've drive the 426 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: price like, it doesn't look like how much does it cost? 427 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 3: Well, it was what two. 428 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 2: Hundred dollars a month. Now they're down to one hundred 429 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: dollars a month. They're sort of getting it away. 430 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 4: It is not thought to be very high. 431 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: Right, And I think that and when you talk to 432 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: like normal people, you know, and every time I'm sure 433 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 2: Dan and Craig do this as well, but like you know, 434 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 2: you're in an uber you ask them about full self driving, 435 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty rare. When I ask the question 436 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: that someone is like, yeah, it's the best. Most people 437 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 2: are like I don't use it, or yeah it's okay. 438 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 2: And I just don't think they've managed to convince regular 439 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 2: normal drivers that this thing is worth paying for yet. 440 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 5: Craig on the Robotaxi, you guys have referred to it. 441 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 5: It's coming soon, right, the big reveal. They're gonna they're 442 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 5: gonna put bring it out on stage. They're gonna bring 443 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 5: something out on stage, you know, covered in a blanket 444 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 5: or you know, and then they're gonna Elon's gonna, you know, 445 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 5: with great pomp and circumstance, you know, pull the blanket away. 446 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 5: We're gonna see something when it exactly is that coming? 447 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd like a BINGO card for that event. You know, 448 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 6: is he wearing the Texas hat. 449 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: Working on the beginning? 450 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 3: Oh, Craig, we are doing it. 451 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 5: Yeah. 452 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,479 Speaker 6: So that's August eighth. And to Max's point, I do 453 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 6: think the fact that this company has been taking people's 454 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 6: money for years now and deferring revenue that it that 455 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,360 Speaker 6: it collects related to full self driving. And actually, when 456 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 6: you when you sort of look closely at their quarterly 457 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 6: filings and compare the deferred revenue that they're actually recognizing 458 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 6: versus what they thought they would recognize, you know, the 459 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 6: prior year, those numbers have have never matched up. They've 460 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 6: always overestimated how much revenue they're going to generate from 461 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 6: or or recognize from that sort of you know, piggybank 462 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 6: that they've you know, kind of set aside in acknowledgment 463 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 6: of the fact that Full self driving is not actually 464 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,719 Speaker 6: self driving. So you know, this is a company that, 465 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 6: for years, if you're sort of a close partser of 466 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 6: regulatory filings, has acknowledged the fact that they've over sold 467 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 6: this stuff. And not only do we not know to 468 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 6: what extent consumers are ready to take this on, I 469 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 6: think we have some real questions about just how ready 470 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 6: regulators are because if you look at what the National 471 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 6: Highway Traffic Safety Administration has to say about Tesla's lower 472 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 6: level systems autopilot I'm referring to here, they have real 473 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 6: concerns about the safety gap between you know, how the 474 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 6: company is marketing this and how they're deploying it versus 475 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 6: what it's actually capable of. 476 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 5: Robotaxi. Of course, the level of angst among regulators and 477 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 5: scrutiny's going to be that much greater. I will just say, though, Max, 478 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 5: that between you got to say here that between robotaxi 479 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,439 Speaker 5: talk and all by doing whatever he was that he 480 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 5: had to do, stabilizing sales to some extent, slashing payrolls 481 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 5: by the way, during in recent months he's cut payrolls 482 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 5: almost twenty percent. Okay, you take all those things together, 483 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 5: and he's done it again. He has turned the tied 484 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 5: on a stock that seemed to be in free fall. 485 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree. 486 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: Listen, there there are some real questions about whether this 487 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 2: strategy is real. And I mean you're talking about like 488 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 2: our robotos tax is going to happen. I think some 489 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 2: elon probably thinks that's a problem for the Trump administration 490 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: to solve. I think it's going to be a problem 491 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: for like the Eric Trump administration or the Donald Junior 492 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: Trump ad like this is a this is a decades 493 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: long regulation problem, not not something that's going. 494 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,719 Speaker 3: To happen soon, but and and so. 495 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 5: But in the near term. 496 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's done it. He really has. 497 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: I mean, he he completely managed to change the narrative 498 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 2: to turn what should be a real problem for a 499 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 2: company that makes cars, which is that it's not selling 500 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 2: them as much as it wants to, into like almost 501 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 2: an asset. 502 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 3: It's you know, sorry, we're not a car company anymore. 503 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:47,919 Speaker 3: We're software. 504 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 5: Don't worry about that. But he has Craig push sales 505 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 5: volume at any price, cutting prices repeatedly that presumably has 506 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 5: come and will continue to calm at the cost of margin. 507 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 5: I mean, is that is that something that's we're going 508 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 5: to see playing out in coming quarters. 509 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, Dana mentioned the energy storage deployments, and it is 510 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 6: a very dramatic increase, but I think we've also watched 511 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 6: very closely how that has actually translated in terms of revenue, 512 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 6: and we've not really seen evidence that that is really 513 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 6: moving the needle. I think the fundamentals of this company's 514 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: business are sort of continuing to deteriorate and sort of 515 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 6: you know, matching, you know, maybe what the stock was 516 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 6: doing months ago. And it's been fascinating to see the 517 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 6: shares you know, really sort of come roaring back just 518 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 6: these last few weeks. 519 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 4: I just looked at the Bloomberg terminal and shares are 520 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 4: only down like seven point six percent for the year now. 521 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 4: I mean, that is a big difference from where we. 522 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 5: Were basically flat. I mean, it's true, Dana that the 523 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 5: market overall is up like fifteen percent or so, So 524 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,959 Speaker 5: seven percent down is still seven percent down at a 525 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 5: time when everything else is up. But you're absolutely right. 526 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 5: I mean, to have gone from almost fifty percent down 527 00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 5: to down just seven percent year to date is quite 528 00:26:59,160 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 5: a thing. 529 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 4: I just want to make one more point, which we've 530 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 4: pounded on quite a bit on this show and elsewhere, 531 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 4: which is that, like you know, Elon is fundamentally just 532 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 4: this like master Marketer, master of the narrative. It's like 533 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 4: the Man behind the Curtain, Wizard of Oz kind of 534 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 4: stuff where he really does like drop these clues. It's 535 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 4: almost like a QAnon drop and the fans go bananas. 536 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 4: So the other thing that happened this week was he 537 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 4: started following Travis Kalanik, which everyone saw as this clue 538 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 4: that like the Robotaxi is gonna partner with Uber or 539 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 4: like that, you know, and he's called it the cyber Cab. 540 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 4: And so like just when he does stuff like that, 541 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 4: like the fans go go ballistic and they are all 542 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 4: in on like this future vision. And it is like 543 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,159 Speaker 4: a cult in a lot of ways in terms of 544 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 4: the way that the stock moves and the way that 545 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 4: you know, everyone rallies around the leader. And there have 546 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 4: been these real pivot points where you're like, oh my god, 547 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 4: is he going to be able to pull this out? 548 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 4: Is he going to be able to pull the rabbit 549 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 4: out of the hat, And like he does it over 550 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,159 Speaker 4: and over again to the point where like we're all 551 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 4: very cynical about it, but obviously investors are not. And 552 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 4: that's like, that's the disconnect that I think some of 553 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 4: us feel. It's like, Wow, they're really going for this 554 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: yet again. But we've seen this play over and over again. 555 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 5: Craig, great to have you on. Don't be a stranger. 556 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 5: Come back soon. 557 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 6: Thanks for having me. 558 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 5: Okay, to wrap this up. Now, we're gonna do a 559 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 5: segment that I'm gonna be honest, I know absolutely nothing 560 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 5: about Max. Tell us all about it. Something about Elon 561 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 5: trying to make X a kinder, gentler place. 562 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've talked about this in past episodes. Elon. You 563 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,880 Speaker 3: may think of him as a trolling, you know. 564 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: Poster who loves to just stir the pot, but he 565 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: has a softer side, and that softer side wants to 566 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: see content that isn't divisive, that doesn't you know, rile 567 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: people up. 568 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: That's just beautiful. 569 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: Such a and and so yesterday there this is i'd 570 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: say one of my favorite all time Elon Musks posts. 571 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 2: He he posted a tweet by an account called l Lookbook. 572 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 2: It's basically like a a bunch of pictures essentially beautiful interiors, 573 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: and it looks like something out of Brides magazine it's 574 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: like an all white interior with a bed kind of 575 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 2: in the in the background, and an arch and some plants. 576 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: It's just a gorgeous It looks like your ideal Airbnb 577 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: in Newport or something. And Elon wrote, would be lovely 578 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: to see more accounts on x simply posting beautiful content. Okay, 579 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 2: and I say, Elon here here, let's all come back. 580 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 5: But I'm seeing he wants. 581 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 4: To become Pinterest or something. 582 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 5: Well, I feel like I'm seeing a direction of travel 583 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 5: because just the previous week, right he said, when I 584 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 5: told everyone to go all the you know, advertisers to 585 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 5: go f themselves, I didn't mean go f yourself. And 586 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 5: now like again he's just right just continuing on that line, 587 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 5: and man, can we just post beautiful. 588 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 7: And a dyne non You know, it's weird because like 589 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 7: the jk Rowling one was sort of felt like a 590 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 7: specific comment about jk Rowling where he was saying, hey, 591 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 7: what was that? 592 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 5: Remind me? 593 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, he had he. 594 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 2: Had suggested that, you know, essentially I'm paraphrasing, probably badly, 595 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: but essentially that she had been posting all this controversial stuff. 596 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 2: Wouldn't it better if she was just posting stuff about 597 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: wizards or Harry Potter or something here. 598 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, like Danna says. 599 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: It's like, well, it wouldn't it be great if we 600 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: just had some nice interiors on this on this site 601 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 2: instead of all this divisive content. And I thought, Okay, maybe, 602 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 2: you know, maybe this maybe is turning overleaf. But you 603 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 2: really don't have to go too too far before he's 604 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 2: you know, down in the timeline, before he's back in 605 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: the mix politically, So just. 606 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 5: Back in the in the in the in the scrum 607 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 5: and just and just fighting and scrap it. So, Dana, though, 608 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 5: you see that post and it says, pinteresting, Well. 609 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 4: It's a summer bedroom. I mean I see flowers, I 610 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 4: see white sheets, white walls. The person who posted is 611 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 4: Eva loves Design and yeah, look it's like a Pinterest 612 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 4: board like my favorite interior for my summer cottage or 613 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 4: something like that. 614 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 5: So now, Max, is that the totality though? The kinder 615 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 5: gentler X from elanor were there other things that put 616 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 5: you in that direction? That was it? 617 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 3: That's the totality. 618 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 5: That's the totality, Max, Dana, thanks for joining. 619 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 3: Always a pleasure, great to be here. 620 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Stacy Woan Naomi Shaven and 621 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 5: Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. The idea for this 622 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 5: very show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, 623 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 5: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott, Antonia 624 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 5: Muffarech and Arafat Jalasho Perry. Our supervising producer is Magnus Hendrickson. 625 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 5: The elin ing theme is written and performed by Taka 626 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 5: Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Era. Brendan Francis Newnham is our 627 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 5: executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 628 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 5: A big thanks as always to our supporter Joel Weber. 629 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 5: I'm Dave bit Papadopolis. If you have a minute, rate 630 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 5: and review our show, it'll help other listeners find us. 631 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 5: See you next week.