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Speaker 1: Trust me? Do you trust her?

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Speaker 2: Right? Everly?

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Speaker 1: And you was story? Trust This is the truth, the

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Speaker 1: only truth.

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Speaker 3: If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't

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Speaker 3: welcome to trust me. The podcast about cults, extreme belief

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Speaker 3: and manipulation from two top models have actually experienced it.

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Speaker 1: I am Top.

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Speaker 4: Model low La Blanc and I'm Top Model Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 3: And this week, these two top models are joined by

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Speaker 3: Lindsey Burr, longtime reality television producer who worked on of

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Speaker 3: Course America's Next Top Model four years. She's going to

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Speaker 3: join us to talk about her experiences working on the

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Speaker 3: now controversial hit competition show. She'll tell us what the

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Speaker 3: team looked for when casting, some of the more problematic

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Speaker 3: challenges the show used, and the time she lost the

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Speaker 3: models in Thailand.

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Speaker 4: She'll talk about how it was the wild West of

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Speaker 4: reality TV, with every show in the early days trying

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Speaker 4: to outdo each other and often not considering the consop

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Speaker 4: clinces for the people on the show, and Tyra's own arc,

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Speaker 4: and whether she was perpetuating the harmful cycles she'd been

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Speaker 4: trying to stop. Plus why lindsay things Unscripted television has

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Speaker 4: hopefully been getting more ethical.

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Speaker 3: All that and more, right after Megan tells me her

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Speaker 3: cultiest thing.

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Speaker 1: Ha ha.

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Speaker 4: Also, let's just take a moment to say how much

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Speaker 4: we love Lindsay bar because oh I'm obsessed with her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, best human Alida.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So mine kind of ties into reality television. And

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Speaker 4: it came to me like a nightmare last night when

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Speaker 4: I went to go get a midnight snack at the

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Speaker 4: grocery store. Okay, I'm looking in the aisle. Is there

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Speaker 4: more snacks to be had? Should I get a snicker?

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Speaker 4: Should I get whatever?

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Speaker 1: Please? Tell me? Why the hell?

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Speaker 4: On the cover of People magazine, there's another dugger boy.

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Speaker 4: Remember nineteen thousand kids in counting in jail for moless

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Speaker 4: than a kid.

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Speaker 1: And for folks who I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So this, this is now the second member of this

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Speaker 3: family who has I don't know who's been convicted or

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Speaker 3: where the trials are at, but who has been accused

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Speaker 3: slash potentially convicted of child molestation.

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Speaker 4: Correct, and even his wife was briefly put in jell

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Speaker 4: So that's yeah, that's rare. I was flipping through it

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Speaker 4: as fast as I could before they got to me

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Speaker 4: because I'm not going to buy People magazine because.

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Speaker 1: It's too much money. That's why are they forty dollars now?

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Speaker 1: But also I wanted more candy. The internet's free.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I mean, I don't want to make generalizations.

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Speaker 4: And of course maybe something was happening inside of their family.

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Speaker 4: There's a million things that could be the answer. But

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Speaker 4: the truth of the matter is that so often in

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Speaker 4: these cultures of purity and perfect you know, I remember

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Speaker 4: reading with their older son, Josh Duggar, who was in

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Speaker 4: prison for a very long time because the stuff he

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Speaker 4: was doing is horrific, The stuff he was looking at

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Speaker 4: is horrific. And you know, they didn't they like brought

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Speaker 4: him to the police station to kind of cause play

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Speaker 4: him getting in trouble. But the police were their friends,

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Speaker 4: and he was never really going to get in trouble.

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Speaker 4: And you know, there was always this kind of like

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Speaker 4: keep a lid on it. So we're still good examples

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Speaker 4: to the outside world, which I've seen reflected in my

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Speaker 4: own community growing up, of like, you know, it's it's

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Speaker 4: kind of on the victims to keep it quiet, because right, right, right,

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Speaker 4: you don't want to set a bad you don't want

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Speaker 4: to make it look like there's any problems in the Kingdom.

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Speaker 1: Right right, right, right, right right, So I don't love.

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Speaker 4: It makes me sick, makes me sad, and I am

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Speaker 4: so sick and full from all the chocolate I ate.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, totally related thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean the fact that more than

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Speaker 3: one person being a uh being committing those crimes in

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Speaker 3: the same family. Something is going on for sure. But

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Speaker 3: like that's fucking sucks. I mean, nothing else to say

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Speaker 3: about it. It just sucks. That's awful.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it really sucks to put up mildly and

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Speaker 4: I would love to do an episode another episode on

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Speaker 4: the Doggers.

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Speaker 1: Barty done one with Joel Duggar.

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Speaker 4: Please go take a look at it, because she was

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Speaker 4: telling us stuff that I did not know, Like she

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Speaker 4: was coerced into filming her births, she didn't get really

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Speaker 4: a penny of any money from being on the show,

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Speaker 4: and she had a really interesting insight into what she'd

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Speaker 4: been through. So anyway, that's my cultiest thing of the week.

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Speaker 1: What about you? What's yours? Well?

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Speaker 3: So our guest next week, probably I think is is

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Speaker 3: gnomes by line from the trust Me docuseries and Gnomes

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Speaker 3: has this is just a bit of cute, sweet news

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Speaker 3: Nomes has gone public with her new relationship. She is

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Speaker 3: dating a boy who is Warren Jeff's son, who, as

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Speaker 3: soon as he.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't every guy warrened Jeffson at this point, that's true.

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Speaker 3: As soon as he turned eighteen let the family change

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Speaker 3: his name, you know, wanted nothing to do with that lifestyle.

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Speaker 3: And now the two of them have gone public and

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Speaker 3: they're this like post polygamy power couple, which is just

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Speaker 3: so adorable.

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Speaker 4: I never thought I would hear that sentence, and I

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Speaker 4: love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I'm so excited for that episode.

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Speaker 4: If anybody hasn't watched the Trust Me doc with Lola's

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Speaker 4: Mom yet on Netflix, go post haste and watch it

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Speaker 4: now post haste.

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Speaker 1: And only no one says post haste anymore, I know.

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Speaker 4: And our old producer Steve, who we are obsessed with,

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Speaker 4: just said he loved it and he had accidentally only

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Speaker 4: watched the last episode thinking that it was the entire thing,

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Speaker 4: so he thought it was like an hour long docu

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Speaker 4: series and he still loved it. But now he has

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Speaker 4: to go back to the beginning, so don't he did

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Speaker 4: start from He did four episodes and then I I yeah,

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Speaker 4: the conversation.

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Speaker 3: With her is just like transfixing. We'll tell we'll get there,

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Speaker 3: we'll get there, We'll get there next.

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Speaker 1: Week, next week.

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Speaker 3: But in the meantime, we have this week's guests, and

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Speaker 3: she's so funny and she has so much insight into

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Speaker 3: the world of reality TV, and y'all should listen now, right.

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Speaker 4: I think, So let's talk to one of my favorite people,

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Speaker 4: Lindsey Burr.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Lindsay Burr to trust me. Thank you for paying

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Speaker 3: with us.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, Thank you, guys.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited you're here because you were a producer on Famed.

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Speaker 3: Maybe potentially we could say Infamous TV show America's Next

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Speaker 3: Top Model, but you've also had a long career of

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Speaker 3: working in reality TV.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to give us some of your resume? Sure?

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Speaker 1: I love it. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to do film when I came here, and then.

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Speaker 1: It was like the wild West. It was so boring.

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Speaker 5: Features were boring, like they had a million people standing

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Speaker 5: around doing one job and I was like, people do.

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Speaker 1: This, I'm bored.

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Speaker 5: And it was like reality TV was new and no

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Speaker 5: one kind of knew what it was. It was around

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Speaker 5: two thousand and two, two thousand and three, and so yeah,

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Speaker 5: I got My first job was a PA on Top

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Speaker 5: Model and moved all the way up to supervising producer

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Speaker 5: on IT.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's braggable these days are not.

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Speaker 5: How many seasons I did seasons two through ten, and

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Speaker 5: then I went back for season twenty three when Rita

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Speaker 5: Aura was a host, which is a wow, whole nother bag.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot of chips.

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Speaker 3: A lot of seasons and so many things, a lot

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Speaker 3: of things that you know.

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Speaker 1: I'm shocked they didn't make you sign an n DA

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Speaker 1: oh no, I signed an India.

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Speaker 5: So how are you like able to talk about It's

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Speaker 5: like the NDA was really about like the winner? Why

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Speaker 5: because and people get so I love telling this story

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Speaker 5: because I know there's a lot of former contestants out

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Speaker 5: there saying they made us sign a five million dollar NDA. Well,

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Speaker 5: the entire crew signed this because back in the early

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Speaker 5: two thousands there was a lot of illegal gambling around

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Speaker 5: reality show interesting and so it was that in ratings

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Speaker 5: we didn't have you know, there were like what ten channels,

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Speaker 5: you know, right, and so if you knew the winner,

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Speaker 5: people wouldn't want to watch it.

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Speaker 1: So there were high stakes.

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Speaker 5: And keeping it keeping it under wraps and I was

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Speaker 5: so cuckoo about it. I remember my mom would be like,

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Speaker 5: who won, And I was like, Mom, I know you

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Speaker 5: birthed me, but I cannot tell you. So you know,

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Speaker 5: I would never tell my mom.

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Speaker 1: She would go golfing and tell all her friends. So

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Speaker 1: I liked my job.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, so there is an NDA. You know, I

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Speaker 5: think we're at the point where everyone's talking about tom models.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's fine.

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Speaker 3: So you know, if anyone for some reason has not

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Speaker 3: watched the show, can you just remind us the premise

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Speaker 3: how it works.

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Speaker 5: So it was created. This is a little interesting fact.

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Speaker 5: It was created by Kenya Barris actually with Tyra who

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Speaker 5: created I think Blackishka and he is like a silent

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Speaker 5: partner in it. And Tyra thought like, what if I

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Speaker 5: can take Real World, which was really one of like

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Speaker 5: the biggest realities shows of the time, and then make

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Speaker 5: it like a competition show, which which were just getting

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Speaker 5: their legs and TV right. And so she's like, what

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Speaker 5: if I can combine those two formats and make it

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Speaker 5: about modeling.

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Speaker 1: So the girls live in a house.

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Speaker 5: And then there's a weekly elimination and so yeah, so

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Speaker 5: it's aspiring models who want to be America's Next Top

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Speaker 5: Model doing what became crazier and crazier challenges each week

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Speaker 5: to win that title.

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Speaker 1: And yeah it was crazy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like where to even begin. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about the challenges, but I also

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Speaker 3: want to talk about the girls.

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Speaker 4: I mean, and just you know, if you have a

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Speaker 4: bunch of girls and a house where they all want

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Speaker 4: something very deeply to fulfill their needs and their dream

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Speaker 4: it's kind of just like a very culty oh setup,

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Speaker 4: and you have this, you know, while not actually cult

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Speaker 4: and Tira not actually a cult leader, not a literal cult,

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Speaker 4: we do have this figure head at the forefront. So

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Speaker 4: let's jump into the dynamics because yeah, where do where

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Speaker 4: do you.

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Speaker 1: Want to start with that? Megan? Where do you want

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Speaker 1: to say that? I guess okay, talk about the contestants?

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Speaker 3: Were there was there anything that was looked for personality wise,

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Speaker 3: aside from just like the central thing.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's funny when I did it, I was so young.

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Speaker 5: I was the same age as a lot of these

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Speaker 5: you know, young women at the time. We were in

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Speaker 5: our early twenties, and yeah, there there's a lot of

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Speaker 5: we had a psychologist on board, like all shoot, all

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Speaker 5: shows do they you get psych tested to make sure

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Speaker 5: like you can handle it and all of that, but

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Speaker 5: it's also you learn a lot about people in psych testing.

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Speaker 5: But it was like, I think the biggest things we

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Speaker 5: were looking for is, you know, an ensemble, like they

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Speaker 5: were looking for, like who is going to be the

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Speaker 5: foil like foils, like if you're going to have a

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Speaker 5: very gregarious personality, who's going to not get along with that?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 5: And I can think of many examples in the casting

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Speaker 5: of multiple seasons on that. But I think over the

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Speaker 5: overall arching thing was I mean, there were a lot

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Speaker 5: of things where girls who wanted to get out of

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Speaker 5: their circumstances, you know, like I think early reality TV,

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Speaker 5: especially every show is the ultimate test of what won't

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Speaker 5: people do, you know, for their dream And I think

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Speaker 5: a top model was especially a big one, and like,

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Speaker 5: let's take it as far as we can go and

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Speaker 5: look at the repercussions of it now. So yeah, I

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Speaker 5: think it was young women who were impressionable who there

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Speaker 5: were a lot of different types of personalities.

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Speaker 1: We obviously had a lot of women who were strong.

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Speaker 5: Lisa Diamato is always a strong human loud, but then

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Speaker 5: there were the shy, quiet ones, the ones who were

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Speaker 5: told they couldn't do it and then a casting person

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Speaker 5: saw them in the mall and said they could. You know,

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Speaker 5: there were all different personalities, but yeah, there was a

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Speaker 5: testing of it to see and I think that was

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Speaker 5: really mostly for the protection of you know, the show

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Speaker 5: and for the people going on it, because it is

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Speaker 5: such a high stress. I mean, not particularly this show,

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Speaker 5: but I've done other shows where people, you know, like

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Speaker 5: actual suicide is something that is considered like if people

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Speaker 5: lose or they don't get the opportunity. So the responsibility

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Speaker 5: of really making sure we call it duty of care,

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Speaker 5: just making sure people are taken care of. And I

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Speaker 5: don't know how aware we were of it then. I

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Speaker 5: was a kid too, but I know now as a

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Speaker 5: producer in my forties, that's like utmost Yeah, well.

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised there even worse psychologists back then that actually

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Have expected that that would have been the case.

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Speaker 3: Also, just like landscape wise, like now reality show like

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Speaker 3: we have influencers, we have social media. You go on

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Speaker 3: a reality show, you know, you kind of know you're

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Speaker 3: gonna get followers if you go on.

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Speaker 1: But at the time, it was like American Idol.

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Speaker 4: This come out right, This was like how I will

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Speaker 4: get out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my Colt Clarkson became a star, like a bona

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Speaker 3: fide star, and yeah, it was like this is how

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Speaker 3: you will actually achieve your dream, not just like becoming

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Speaker 3: a wellncer.

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Speaker 5: There wasn't the phone, there was a Instagram. It was

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Speaker 5: the original.

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Speaker 1: I say, like, these people on these shows.

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Speaker 5: Paved the way for influencers for and now people have

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Speaker 5: so much more control over their story and their brand.

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Speaker 5: That wasn't an option then, Like it was I got

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Speaker 5: to just trust these people to to.

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Speaker 1: Do me solid.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which wasn't always the case.

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Speaker 4: No, No, I want to I want to tell you

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Speaker 4: guys a little side story about when I was in

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Speaker 4: college and a man approached me and said you should

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Speaker 4: be a model, and I was like, of course I should, Okay,

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Speaker 4: and it should have been my first warning sign.

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Speaker 1: He was like, you know what first caught me was

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Speaker 1: your butt.

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Speaker 4: And that is not one thing that you should write

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Speaker 4: home about about me, Like I've never gotten that compliment before.

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Speaker 1: But I was like, like a strange man just saying

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Speaker 1: y yeah.

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Speaker 4: But I was like okay, and he was like, let's

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Speaker 4: do a photo shoot, and I was like okay, Jaq,

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Speaker 4: And so then he wants to meet at this strange place,

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Speaker 4: still no warning bells for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, let's go. But what saved me.

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Speaker 4: Is I brought all of my friends because I was like,

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Speaker 4: they're super hot too.

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Speaker 1: Also model.

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Speaker 4: He was like what and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 4: we're all Mark, We're all going to be model. So

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Speaker 4: like they're hot too, just like take a picture of

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Speaker 4: us and then like send it. I don't know, just

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Speaker 4: send it. I'll never forget the look on this man's face.

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Speaker 4: It was like obviously going to take this horrible advantage

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Speaker 4: of me, and and the plot foiled. And but you know,

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Speaker 4: but every like family picture we have from this time

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Speaker 4: period because of top model, I'm like, I'm posing, you're smising.

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Speaker 1: I'm sis you're smising. I mean it was influence culture. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was going.

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Speaker 4: To be discovered and I and like I ruined every

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Speaker 4: family picture with this look that I was getting your

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Speaker 4: eyes yeah yeah, yeah, just kind of like slucking in

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Speaker 4: my o or.

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Speaker 3: Did your family ruin it because they weren't also smising?

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Speaker 1: What my family ruined it? I flam your parents.

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Speaker 5: It's so weird though, but top model truly is like

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Speaker 5: a micro. I've never been in the fashion industry, I

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Speaker 5: don't know, but it just like I do think it

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Speaker 5: is a micro.

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Speaker 1: Like look at what that world.

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Speaker 5: Would be like intensified by television producers. But I mean,

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Speaker 5: I imagine the people we were casting would be the

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Speaker 5: same people that went a man approached him in a

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Speaker 5: mall and said, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, well, modeling it is like a very scary industry.

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Speaker 4: I mean, especially then, yeah, talk about a fucking call.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that's yeah, you know, and like a lot of

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Speaker 4: trafficking and a lot of really ugly, ugly things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, fortunately it was always fine, but I cannot

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Speaker 3: tell you how many weird photo shoots I did in

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Speaker 3: random locations with weird men yet one on one, Oh

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Speaker 3: my god, as an eighteen, nineteen twenty year old, so

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Speaker 3: many I would just go on Craigslist and look ford

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Speaker 3: paid model stuff. It'd be like one hundred dollars at

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Speaker 3: this guy's house in Tarzana, and I'd be like.

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Speaker 1: So you guys have one hundred dollars. I had to

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Speaker 1: pay Jock one hundred dollars. This blows.

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Speaker 3: Let's say I'm a model, I I yeah, Let's say

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Speaker 3: I'm a model.

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Speaker 1: Let's say Megan's a model. You both.

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Speaker 3: Megan shows up, we both show up because Megan brings

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Speaker 3: her friends to day one. Like what what does that

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Speaker 3: trajectory look like? You know, there's challenges. What kinds of

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Speaker 3: challenges were there in the beginning and how do they evolve?

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Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Okay, So I started, I was pa

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Speaker 5: and then I went to talent babysitter.

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Speaker 1: We called it, so I was the girl. I was

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Speaker 1: so young. Who who on set?

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Speaker 5: You know, juggled for the models and kept them fed

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Speaker 5: and busy, and then when they got eliminated, they would

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Speaker 5: live in a hotel.

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Speaker 1: So that way we wouldn't know who got her.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we called it Sequesterville. And I would like take

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Speaker 5: them to Magic Mountain or I got a tattoo with

355
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 5: a bunch of them from season five. But yeah, so

356
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Speaker 5: they would cast, so they'd go through casting, and then

357
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Speaker 5: we started doing the like you you know, twenty four

358
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Speaker 5: to twelve or whatever would find out they made it,

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00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,000
Speaker 5: and then it would be, you know, welcome, whatever big

360
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,520
Speaker 5: thing Tyre would do to welcome them that season, and

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Speaker 5: it just had to get bigger and bigger. That's the

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Speaker 5: way to hold a viewer and to make people not

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Speaker 5: change the channel. It was like, we can't do the

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Speaker 5: same thing every season, so how are we going to

365
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Speaker 5: top ourselves this season? And they just got more ridiculous

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Speaker 5: and ridiculous. I mean, I can't even with the black face. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: so you say a little bit about and I remember,

368
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Speaker 5: but I just I look at it down and it

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Speaker 5: goes like, duh, that's so dumb.

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Speaker 1: But I don't.

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Speaker 5: I wish I can take a time machine back to

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Speaker 5: wherever that photo shoot was because I know I was

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Speaker 5: present for it and be like this just seems really stupid.

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Speaker 1: But you didn't at you were probably just like I.

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Speaker 5: Was like, whatever justification they've made for this, it's totally right.

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Speaker 1: We can't do anything wrong.

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00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, so tell us about this photo shoot, because

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Speaker 4: I was just watching Reality Check, which is this recently

379
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Speaker 4: released documentary on.

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Speaker 1: Top Model So good and so Good, and I.

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Speaker 4: Had forgotten about the changer race photo shoot.

382
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Speaker 1: Twice.

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Speaker 5: They did it twice. Oh no, they went back. This

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00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 5: was after I had left, and they were like we

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Speaker 5: should you know what.

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Speaker 1: We should do it again and.

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Speaker 4: So christ so they were like, every model is going

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Speaker 4: to change race so we could experience what it's like

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Speaker 4: to be each other's Maybe the intent was right, but

390
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Speaker 4: the execution was wrong.

391
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Speaker 1: No executed, It couldn't be.

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Speaker 3: Like was it like, so you can experience the oppression

393
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Speaker 3: that I don't. I guess that wasn't really in the

394
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 3: lexicultural lexicon. It's really it was really bad. There were

395
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Speaker 3: a lot of bad ones. I'm shocked nobody died doing

396
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Speaker 3: this doing Top Model. Yeah, I mean somebody liked that.

397
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 3: Pivot was hard. Well, somebody had hypothermia.

398
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Speaker 1: Oh my god. The challenges just got ridiculous.

399
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Speaker 4: And everybody was like, you know, a little bit hungry,

400
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 4: and then yeah, they got real cuckoo.

401
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Speaker 1: There was one we did. It was back when what

402
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: was that brand?

403
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Speaker 5: There was a brand of clothing that miss sixty American

404
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 5: No American apparel, American apparel. They had their warehouse downtown

405
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Speaker 5: and they had to like do a tightrope walk or

406
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Speaker 5: something or something about heights. Oh my god, and I

407
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 5: every time I drive by where that was, it takes

408
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Speaker 5: me back to being like, I don't I don't know

409
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Speaker 5: why we had height rope walk.

410
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Speaker 1: I don't know why we had to do that.

411
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure why we had to do a

412
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Speaker 4: tight rope lolock, but we did.

413
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 1: Was there a safety net underneath it? Probably?

414
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 4: Okay, I am assumingoo boo, it's not.

415
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,479
Speaker 3: It's not real if there's safety nets. Wait the but

416
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 3: the girl who almost got hypothermia? What was that challenge?

417
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 5: It was a pool, like a water challenge, probably mermaids

418
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 5: or something underwater. I don't remember that one.

419
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 4: It was in the dock where they were taking aly

420
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 4: not there for like go find unhoused people and like

421
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Speaker 4: take pictures with them.

422
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one that was I mean, it got

423
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 1: really bad.

424
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Speaker 5: But I think that this was literally at the time

425
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 5: where reality TV was a joke of itself, like it

426
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 5: was bad. But then I look at like all the

427
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 5: other shows, everything was bad.

428
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: I mean reality shows were all bad. They're really bad

429
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Speaker 1: at the time.

430
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Speaker 3: But that's challenge just it's uniquely horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible.

431
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Speaker 1: They were posing with them like as.

432
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Speaker 4: It's Yeah, I was not there, but like from that

433
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Speaker 4: one it was I see.

434
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: I thought that they just dressed as an unhoused person.

435
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: I know, I know they I think.

436
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 5: They actually went and we were like, hi, oh dear,

437
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 5: do you have a few minutes.

438
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: We gotta we gotta pose.

439
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, and and I mean literally watching this as a

440
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 4: younger person, it just all when they it's straight into

441
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: the non form prefrontal cortex is like cool.

442
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: Totally normal, totally normal.

443
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 5: There's moments you have in like your professional life personal

444
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 5: like you go, man, I really wish I did that differently.

445
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 5: And the one that really hits me it was was

446
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 5: it Kaylen? It was either I think it was Kaylin

447
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 5: And we went to Hollywood Cemetery and she had just

448
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 5: lost like a friend had passed away, and then we

449
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 5: were like, get in the empty grave and take a picture.

450
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 5: And I remember feeling really icky about that, and if

451
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 5: I could go back now and use my voice, I

452
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 5: probably I mean, I have no problem speaking up about

453
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 5: things now, right, But at the time, I was just like, Okay,

454
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 5: this is being a model is going to be really

455
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 5: tough and sometimes you're going to have to do things that.

456
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: Are uncomfortable modelhood. But it was so dumb, oh my stupid.

457
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 5: And I think that's the thing is, I don't want

458
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 5: to say it was group think, but reality TV when

459
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 5: you said what was in the lexicon and what were

460
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 5: we learning? It's it's changed so much in the twenty

461
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,919
Speaker 5: years since that, like that that wouldn't happen. And I

462
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 5: think when I said it was the wild West and

463
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 5: went there went to so many extremes out of the

464
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 5: curiosity of the human spirit, like how far will people

465
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 5: go to do things? And now we've been reeling I

466
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 5: feel like we've reeled that back in.

467
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, but who was coming up with these challenges?

468
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 5: There's producers, so there were the team I mean this

469
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 5: is back also when reality TV had a lot of money. Yeah,

470
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 5: so we had massive teams, right, So we had field

471
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 5: producers and they worked with associate producers and they'd sit

472
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 5: around in spitball and I think Top Model was actually

473
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 5: set up where there were the photo producers, so someone

474
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 5: who's in charge of the weekly photo shoot, and then

475
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 5: the challenge producer. Then there was a whole post team,

476
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 5: which was wild. Yeah, it was big. I mean it

477
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 5: was a huge show. A lot of people who produced

478
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 5: Top Model in the post team.

479
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: They all organized for the strike.

480
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 5: And then back in two thousand and ten or nine

481
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 5: the WGA strike and they lost their jobs and then

482
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 5: they all star to Drag Race.

483
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: To Drag Race, So there's a.

484
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 5: Lot of like Top Model elements and Drag Race interesting

485
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 5: but better and more fun maybe, but yeah, so its massive.

486
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 5: I mean we were a crew and we would travel.

487
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 5: We were a traveling crew of like sixty seventy people only.

488
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: Shit, So you're with the girls like day to the day,

489
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: So like, what would you notice as these seasons would

490
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: go on about, like when they weren't doing so well

491
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 3: with it?

492
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: That's interesting, That's a good question.

493
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 5: I think my job was, like and still is in

494
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 5: some ways today, to be a cheerleader. So my take

495
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 5: was always like if you didn't win, or you're here.

496
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 5: You know how many people wanted to be here, and

497
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 5: so just being here is a win. I think I

498
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 5: always was like the look at the glass half full

499
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:09,239
Speaker 5: person and was having those conversations with the girls so

500
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 5: that when they'd leave, they'd leave happy that they had

501
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 5: the experience. I mean I was friends with a lot

502
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 5: of them afterwards. But yeah, and then also our psychologists.

503
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 5: I mean she was my psychologist too. I would talk

504
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 5: to her half the time too and be like, how

505
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 5: do I help you know?

506
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: And it's wearing on me. It was grueling. We had

507
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: a lot of long days.

508
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 5: We weren't fed right when people when the girls are

509
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 5: coming out, the women are coming out and saying they didn't.

510
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: I that's probably true.

511
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 5: I mean, there were just not a lot of guard

512
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 5: rails about things like that then. But it didn't just

513
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 5: apply to them, It applied to all of us. So

514
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 5: like I was starving, the whole crew was starving.

515
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:57,719
Speaker 1: And even modeling. Yeah yeah, so, I mean I remember

516
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: in Bar so Bad.

517
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 5: I remember in Bar Scelona just being like, I haven't

518
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 5: eaten in twenty four hours, and neither have these girls.

519
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 5: And you know, I felt like I always spoke up

520
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 5: in defense of when I like knew it in my core.

521
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: Do I wish I did more of it? Probably? Yeah? Well,

522
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: now we.

523
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 4: All look in looking back, I could have been you know,

524
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 4: how long did it take for somebody to like, okay,

525
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: so you see the girl get cast in the show,

526
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 4: right yay? Like like when in the process would they

527
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: start to kind of become different?

528
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 5: Would you notice what do you mean different? Like they

529
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 5: adapted when they became the model. There were some that

530
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 5: I was just like, excuse me, like the like a

531
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 5: little bit of entitlement. I was like, oh wow, there

532
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 5: were some I got I hate naming names, but season

533
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 5: five's winner, I was like, can you just be a

534
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 5: little nicer?

535
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: Interesting?

536
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 5: But there were also we were all young kids, right,

537
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 5: like I look, there were there was a seat. This

538
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 5: season we were in Thailand. Two of the girls were

539
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: in Sequesterville and they were they weren't supposed to leave

540
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 5: without like me, right, and I mean I love this one.

541
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 5: It was a Thanksgiving day and that's was always that

542
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 5: was like not fun to be away from family on

543
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 5: Thanksgiving Day and we were doing final runway and it

544
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 5: was the biggest final runway. It was like we had

545
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 5: to hire every local camera operator in Thailand to help

546
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 5: us shoot it.

547
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: And I had stayed out till six.

548
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 5: In the morning with our director and just partying because

549
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 5: I was young and there was no such thing as sleep.

550
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: But that day that these two girls.

551
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 5: We used to have everyone who traveled, even if they

552
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 5: were eliminated, they'd walk the final runway, which gave exposure

553
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 5: to them. But they had been like I forget, what

554
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 5: what have they done?

555
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: That was so bad?

556
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 5: I don't remember, But they were not allowed to walk

557
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 5: in the final runway. So they were going to stay

558
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 5: in Sequesterville with the PA that day and I was

559
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 5: wherever this place was, and the PA called me and

560
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 5: was like, lindsay, I went to.

561
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: Their room and they're not there. Oh no, And I went,

562
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: oh my god, you've lost them. I lost the models

563
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: in Bangkok, Like I don't want to such a funny premise,

564
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: So you don't want to lose the models in Bankok

565
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: lost models and Bank loss models in Bangkok.

566
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 5: And so then I have to go tell Ken mock no.

567
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 5: And Ken is like a father figure to me, like

568
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,239
Speaker 5: I could go on and on about like he is

569
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 5: crazy and also I've learned everything in my career because

570
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 5: of the teams he's put together. But he's scary, and

571
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 5: I had to go up to him and be like,

572
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 5: I mean, Ken is the father of reality. I went

573
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 5: up to him and I went, Hi, I house your turkey.

574
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 5: And he's sitting with Tyra and Nigel and like the

575
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 5: Jays and I'm like, I'm just say, you know, they're missing,

576
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 5: and he went, he went, they're missing. He's yelling at

577
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: me in front of everyone, and I go, I can't

578
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 5: be in two places at once, Like what do you

579
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 5: want me to do? And so we had like our

580
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 5: production people looking through a hotel surveillance.

581
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: Tape for them.

582
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 5: My god, it was we found them. They came back,

583
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 5: they went shopping.

584
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 3: Oh but oh, I was hoping that story would.

585
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: Just keep going. I wish.

586
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 5: I mean, it is a great premise for a movie.

587
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

588
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 5: But then I was back in my room that night,

589
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 5: had made it through the day off of an hour

590
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 5: and a half sleep, and they called me and asked

591
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 5: me to take them to ice cream, and I just went, fuck.

592
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 4: You, no, No, I've been friends with you for so

593
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 4: long I was about to say yours not gonna say it. Yeah,

594
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 4: and you like never sleep, So if I were to

595
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 4: ever go out out with you, I knew I would

596
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 4: not be going to the bed ever.

597
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: And we would go on vacations.

598
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 4: Where we wouldn't thank God, but like we would go

599
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: on vacations where we just I was like, oh, we're

600
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 4: not going to sleep three days later.

601
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

602
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 4: So it's a culture where, like I don't know if

603
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 4: that's just who you would have been no matter what

604
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 4: you were working on, but I feel like it is

605
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 4: a culture that you know, promotes people just going going going.

606
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you mean reality or fashion reality both.

607
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 5: I think it's I think it's well, there wasn't there

608
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 5: was a level of proving yourself, like if you could

609
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 5: work the most hours and be there and be you

610
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 5: know everybody that there was that one show about the

611
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 5: Bachelor with the crazy producer who.

612
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: Like it was so her. I was like that, I

613
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: feel you, girl.

614
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I think we've you know, starting from PA

615
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 5: to being you know, an executive producer.

616
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: I thank god.

617
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 5: Things have changed, Like I don't we don't do that anymore,

618
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 5: at least I don't expect that from people. And but yeah,

619
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 5: it was messy, messy, but also kind of fun.

620
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: It was like, yeah, we were just making it up.

621
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 5: We were like, let's try that, and there was no

622
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 5: basis to compare it to.

623
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: Right, we were the blueprint. We were the blueprint.

624
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 5: So it was like throw a dart and whatever and.

625
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, let's hope it works.

626
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: Right.

627
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 4: It's just interesting that the producers and everybody working on

628
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: the show was also like in the kind of cult.

629
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah what reality TV is a cult? Right?

630
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 5: I mean it is expand it is it, I mean

631
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 5: to the point of to make something, to lead, to

632
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 5: be successful, to want people to watch and follow and

633
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 5: believe in it.

634
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 1: I mean, the the infrastructure of a cult is there, right.

635
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 5: I mean I was thinking about this on the way here,

636
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 5: like Bachelor Nation cult. Yeah, I mean, my friend was

637
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 5: the whistleblower at the when the Bachelor and Paradise happened,

638
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 5: and she had people outside of her apartment like with

639
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 5: like signs and wishing death on her because she got

640
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 5: shut down Bachelor.

641
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: In Paradise for for a sexual assault allegation, right.

642
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: For the right reasons.

643
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 5: And so I go, there is like the fan following.

644
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 5: And I think in terms of Top Model, when we

645
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 5: say like every season the challenges got cuckoo or and crazier,

646
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 5: it's when Tyra does when Tyra says, like, but people

647
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 5: watch right like there is it fed off of each other.

648
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: So this no one, No one was the adult in the.

649
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 5: Room saying maybe it's not worth it, maybe this isn't great,

650
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 5: you know. And and I think in that level of

651
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 5: like media and money and companies and advertising, it just

652
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 5: that's capitalism.

653
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, money is the bottom Liney.

654
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 3: People aren't as important as making that pile grow one hundred.

655
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 3: In terms of like being on set, like because that's

656
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,439
Speaker 3: something we've talked about quite a bit, is like you're

657
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 3: in controlled environments. The producers are in charge, or the

658
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 3: toast or whatever. You aren't allowed to like get a

659
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 3: break to think about other things, Like even as the

660
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 3: experience of a priacer, Like, what's culty about reality?

661
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: In that way? It is?

662
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 5: It is, I mean in a way, it's an experiment, right,

663
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: So what happens when you don't have the things.

664
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: Outside of your life to influence you?

665
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 5: And in top model it goes back and forth with

666
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 5: like for me, my focus is always in like storytelling,

667
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 5: and when you can't control it. If you say, like

668
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 5: I just go out and come back whenever and the

669
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 5: house is open, then things happen that like we can't control, right,

670
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 5: Like I can't go to the grocery store with a

671
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 5: camera crew and film you doing that, Like it's not

672
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 5: that simple, and it definitely wasn't. Then with you know,

673
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 5: we were shooting when I started, we were shooting on actual.

674
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: Tapes, right, you know, not digital.

675
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 5: So while the intent isn't to I think be a

676
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 5: master controller, the reasoning is if I don't, then all

677
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 5: of these things that will affect the storytelling of this

678
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 5: will happen and we wouldn't have been able to film it.

679
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 5: And so in all of these shows, you create like

680
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 5: the playground, so you will so if something happens and

681
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 5: the viewers go like, but we didn't get to see it,

682
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 5: like that's the that's the.

683
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: Reasoning behind it, now, is it right?

684
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 5: You know, that doesn't make it necessarily right, right, but

685
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 5: the intent is so that way you're not missing as

686
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 5: a as a story producer, you're not missing the things

687
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 5: that affect the story.

688
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: But I think that was why.

689
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 5: I mean, the house, we definitely had it so you

690
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 5: could have phone calls.

691
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: That's good, unlike that The.

692
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 5: Bachelor, they could do phone calls or was the phone room.

693
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 5: You know, we certainly had nights. They stayed in the houses.

694
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 5: The house by themselves. We had cameras in it, but

695
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 5: it was even before like rigged cameras and all that.

696
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 5: It was just you know, we provided the place for

697
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 5: them to live. And then we also filmed them in

698
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 5: that book, so it wasn't real world. Real world had

699
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 5: the structure where it was. To me, that's like the

700
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 5: ultimate reality show.

701
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: It was perfect.

702
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 5: They shot it over nine months. They really took their

703
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 5: time with it. It was truly intended to be a documentary.

704
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 5: Well people didn't want that. They wanted shorter schedules.

705
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 4: Turn it around when because it's less exactly more money

706
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: and then the real world challenge I'm at it's.

707
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: Still everyone talks about that. Uh, and those people could

708
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: die at any time. They're like those ship they have

709
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: those people.

710
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: Doing and I'm like, play is it like it's like

711
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 3: adventure challenges.

712
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 5: I live in a house and some I mean, it's

713
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 5: still going it's still going wild. It's absolutely batshit and

714
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 5: saying and I can't stop watching it and say that's

715
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 5: the problem.

716
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: That's the problem, and I'm part of it.

717
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 2: You're not.

718
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: It's all that. It's not the problem.

719
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 5: It's the curiosity though, of the human spirit that's And

720
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 5: like to me, people go like why unscripted, And I go,

721
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 5: I love unscripted because in my wildest dreams, no matter

722
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 5: what I could think of, that person just fucking surprises

723
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 5: shit out of me, like humans doing things that you

724
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 5: can't even predict, and then having to like go, oh

725
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 5: my god, that's so good. Now I have to I

726
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 5: have to pivot. I think that's the fun of it all.

727
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: But is it like a giant culture fuck?

728
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah? Probably, Like unscripted is weird.

729
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,400
Speaker 5: It is it's taking real people and asking them to

730
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 5: be real people for real people, and it's Yeah.

731
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: I wonder if now, like doing reality now, does it

732
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: feel quite different? Because I feel like there's so much

733
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 3: more self awareness now around what it means to be

734
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 3: on a reality show.

735
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's hard to find authenticity. Casting is really hard.

736
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 5: Casting has become a lot harder in whatever type of

737
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 5: format you're looking for, dating docuseries, it's just everyone's.

738
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: They're self aware, they're like thinking that through. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

739
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: So you have to find people who don't want to

740
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: be on TV.

741
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 4: And then convince them, and you have to do it. No,

742
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: what's the most surprising thing you saw? My favorite thing?

743
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 5: Okay, we could talk about Tyra, but my favorite thing

744
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 5: is so I came up. I was a babysitter of

745
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 5: the girls and had a lot of fun women and

746
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 5: we had a lot of a lot of stories there.

747
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 5: But then I went to post. I was like, I

748
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 5: want to learn how to edit and post produce. And

749
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 5: I was like, they call them loggers. Now AI does

750
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 5: all this stuff. But you would sit there and you'd

751
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 5: watch all the tape and you'd literally, verbatim say like,

752
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 5: this is what's happening, So then the producers would happen.

753
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 5: I would I would do that and then hang out

754
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 5: with the editors and ask them questions.

755
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 1: But one day I think it's season nine, Tyra asked.

756
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: To be cut out of judging because she didn't like

757
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 5: how her eyelashes looked, and as.

758
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: You said her name, I just knew something.

759
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 5: She literally went she saw an edit and she went, yeah,

760
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 5: we're going to.

761
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: Have to cut me out completely, like.

762
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 5: The host of the show of two acts of a

763
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 5: show who stands there and goes, I have two And

764
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 5: I remember being like, I know, I'm really new to

765
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 5: the post thing, but this just doesn't seem possible and yeah,

766
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 5: and being super confused that no one was telling her.

767
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: It was impossible, and so editorial time and people's like

768
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: skill set was spent cutting her out of judging completely

769
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: so she could see it.

770
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 5: And then she saw it and she was like, yeah,

771
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 5: it totally works. It is hilarious. But you're like, it's

772
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 5: like the voice of God is handing out the photos

773
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 5: to her.

774
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: Voice in it, but no Tyra.

775
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 5: And when he too reshoots because they've all gone home,

776
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 5: it's all different. You don't reshoot an elimination hilarious. And

777
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 5: so it went up to less Moonvez like this is

778
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 5: the leg I think. I mean, I'm still like young,

779
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 5: but the legend is less Moonvez had to tell her

780
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 5: oh no, you have to be in the judging.

781
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: I had to see this scene because I have to

782
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: see what those eyelashes look like.

783
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 5: So we added and this is where I go, This

784
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 5: is there's always a solution. This is you know, there's

785
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 5: never a problem that can't be solved. It is my

786
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 5: take on things, but like, solving it sooner than later

787
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 5: will save a lot of money.

788
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: And the solution was at an ad R line.

789
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 5: Saying I just came from a photo shoot and that's

790
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 5: why my eyelashes.

791
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: Look like this genius.

792
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 5: But it took like a month of people spinning their wheels,

793
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 5: and to this day I think about it. I was like,

794
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 5: that's literally the actual craziest thing. And there's lots of

795
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 5: crazies I've done. I did dating naked. I mean I've

796
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 5: seen it. I've seen it, accidental girls in Yet the

797
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 5: Blur did not Blur.

798
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,839
Speaker 4: The not Blur did not know about that, and and

799
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 4: she soon sued, yeah, I.

800
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 5: Probably why we didn't get another season.

801
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: My god, to the to the eyelash of thing.

802
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: Listen, I've looked at a video of myself and been like, we.

803
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: Gotta fix that. We gotta yeah, we gotta cut that.

804
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 3: Moment I can't hate, but it's it's crazy and it's

805
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 3: very extreme, and I just was like, did you not

806
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: look in the mirror before you?

807
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 5: All right, I won't say specifically what episode, but super

808
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 5: fans will know, like you'll dig it's season nine or ten.

809
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: Quite an ordeal though to try to it was so good.

810
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: She's so she's so interesting. Let's talk about Tyra.

811
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 5: She is the most like person who can just turn

812
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,920
Speaker 5: on I've ever met in my entire life.

813
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 1: Like, I wouldn't say she's not friendly.

814
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 5: She's just like very internal and doesn't like socialize very much.

815
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: But then she like stands in front of the lights

816
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 1: and it's like it turns on.

817
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 5: It's like her Barbie Doll character with that Lindsay Lohan

818
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 5: movie and totally and it like never not impressed me.

819
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 5: For for I was like, I don't that's weird. Yeah,

820
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 5: always like that's weird, but it's also fascinating.

821
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 1: I just remember being like and like.

822
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 5: Doesn't need really cue cards or anything, just like comes

823
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 5: to life and then like I cant almost hear the

824
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 5: sound effect that.

825
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: Goes with powering on, yeah, and then power off. That's

826
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: a skill.

827
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: But being able to turn it on like that is exhausting.

828
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: I feel like you really got to turn it off.

829
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: She and she would turn it off, you would.

830
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,280
Speaker 3: I turned it off the second I leave this podcast

831
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 3: off off.

832
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: Okay, so I'm watching the show last night that was

833
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 4: kind of explaining how she became a model and she

834
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 4: was rejected fifty thousand million times and by that I

835
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 4: mean five and she you know, she had she had

836
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 4: a rough time because number one, they all they wanted

837
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 4: was white models back in the day, skinny, skinny, white models.

838
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 4: So like she had an incredible arc and she had

839
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 4: a huge part in history and.

840
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: Did amazing things.

841
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 4: But yeah, I think she was probably treated so cruelly

842
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 4: that some of these actions that she was taking against

843
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 4: girls she didn't even realize were.

844
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 5: That's so on the nose that she was perpetuating the

845
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 5: cycle that she was trying to stop her she was,

846
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 5: and I know there was a lot of finger pointing,

847
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 5: like she would get frustrated at Janice and be like,

848
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 5: this isn't what we're.

849
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: Doing, but she kept Janis on the show. But and

850
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: also you were doing it too.

851
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 2: You know.

852
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 5: It's like I I seriously think she didn't see it.

853
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 5: Then I hope there's some aware it is now. I

854
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 5: don't know the doc doc leaves you asking questions, but

855
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:12,839
Speaker 5: but yeah, I think she is a product of the

856
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 5: world that she came up in, and and there's a

857
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 5: bit of like, well, I had to do it, and

858
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 5: if you really wanted this bad, you know, this is

859
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 5: what it is, you have to do it too, and

860
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 5: not to say it's right, but I can't say. There's

861
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 5: moments where I go, as a producer, this is you know,

862
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 5: not tip for tap, but I go like, man, I

863
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 5: worked long hours, I clean, I did all the jobs, right,

864
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 5: I like, really wanted it really bad.

865
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,919
Speaker 1: And then I meet a lot of young people who

866
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: are like, I did a job.

867
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 5: I'm ready to be the executive producer. Now I'm like,

868
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 5: go clean the rain gutter.

869
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you stay up for one week

870
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 4: straight exactly.

871
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it's the same, but there.

872
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 5: I do think there's an element of, you know, whether

873
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 5: she was aware of it or not, the hardships she

874
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 5: found herself in to now be in a place where

875
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 5: she is the executive producer of the show she created

876
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 5: and all of that, and it's like, well, ladies, if

877
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 5: you want it.

878
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: You're going to want it. Just as bad as I did.

879
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 5: And it doesn't make it right, but I think that

880
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 5: it explains some of the behavior that makes sense.

881
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, And.

882
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 5: It's like but then when we stop right like be

883
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 5: better then right?

884
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, are we breaking the cycle or are we

885
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: not like be better than Yeah? Yeah, And I think

886
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:34,440
Speaker 1: it's important to know.

887
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 4: This all kind of came to a head when people

888
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 4: started rewatching it during the pandemic, which is wild wild,

889
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 4: So during the pandemic, everybody was like, I'm bored. I'm

890
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 4: going to start watching a show I've never seen before,

891
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 4: which is America's next hop model. So this is like

892
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:50,919
Speaker 4: the next generation of people that.

893
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: Were like what the hell?

894
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: And in the lens of today exactly, we're just like

895
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 5: this would not yes go well today.

896
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: Yes.

897
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 3: So I didn't finish the docuseries, but obviously I know

898
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 3: there were a lot of racial microaggressions. There was a

899
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 3: lot of commenting on people's waights. Wait, what else was

900
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: going on?

901
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 5: I think there was like a lack of awareness about

902
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 5: mental health.

903
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: It just was a lack of empathy. Yeah.

904
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 5: I think even though it felt like it should be

905
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 5: empowering women, I don't think it was right. And then

906
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 5: like there's been talk about would it come back, would

907
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 5: they do Top Model again? And I go, I don't like,

908
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 5: what does that look like though, because you can't you

909
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 5: can't do that version of it. Yea, they're a body

910
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 5: positive how do we And even though Top Moddle tried

911
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 5: to do body positivity like they had plus sized models,

912
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 5: they they tried to highlight differences, but I don't think

913
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 5: they did it in a way looking back at it,

914
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 5: it felt very like cliche like token like.

915
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah instead of just I don't know.

916
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 5: But here's an example, like I I work on QUEERREI right,

917
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,319
Speaker 5: if you look at the original QUEERII for the Straight Guy,

918
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 5: same company created both, that didn't age well either, Like

919
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 5: you couldn't make that again. There's like really aggressive jokes

920
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 5: in it and it's it kind of like yikes. But

921
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,480
Speaker 5: the reboot of it today was like, Okay, what does

922
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 5: culture need now? What are we asking for? We're asking

923
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 5: for a little bit more depth and kindness, kindness, And

924
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 5: then I go, if we look at this reboot ten

925
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,239
Speaker 5: years from now, will it be outdated as well?

926
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think that it's an interesting question.

927
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 5: I always love to be like there's always a solution

928
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 5: to things like what would it be?

929
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: But I don't know.

930
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: I know modeling is tough because not just inherently, well

931
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 3: you guys, I was modeling.

932
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 4: When I was modeling, you know, I faced a lot

933
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 4: of as.

934
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 5: You had to bring your But here's something. I clearly

935
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 5: don't speak fashion. I wear a black shirt and jeans

936
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 5: every day. I've never I never got it. I like

937
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 5: I was not going there to be the fashionista or

938
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,560
Speaker 5: knew the designers or.

939
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: Any of that.

940
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 5: I I will say the Runway episode or when we

941
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 5: went to South Africa and that runway watching it, I

942
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 5: had never been to a fashion show.

943
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. I was like, what who cares

944
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 1: about this?

945
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 5: And I watched that fashion show it was with Nima

946
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 5: and Kaylin and I stood there and I went, oh,

947
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 5: I understand it now. So maybe that's like the tapping

948
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 5: into it, like there's Doublewaar's produm a man it was.

949
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: It was on and I went, oh, I get it.

950
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: The drama, the joy like the well, it's a peak experience. Yeah,

951
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: that's a peak experience.

952
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 5: I sat there and I went, oh, okay, now this

953
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 5: makes sense to me, And how do you capture that

954
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:03,319
Speaker 5: but yeah, I agree with you, Like, how do you

955
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 5: so it's not really about modeling, It's about a dream

956
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 5: about being being seen, feeling wanted, I guess you know, feeling.

957
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's hard.

958
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: I mean I love What's the Fashion one, the project

959
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 3: Obsessed wonderful way, but like that is about people's work

960
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 3: and what they're creating and their creativity and their ideas,

961
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 3: not their faces and body.

962
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 1: And then judging on a face and the physical.

963
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean one of the interesting things about

964
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 4: what Tyro was creating was she was like, and she

965
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 4: says this in the and the show, why.

966
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: The fuck can't I remember the name of it? What

967
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: is her? Reality reality Check? I think it's nobody.

968
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 4: Can remember that it is reality Check? Okay, she says

969
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 4: that in Reality Check she was like, if this show

970
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,399
Speaker 4: doesn't sell, what will become of me? Because what does

971
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 4: become of a model after their expirations? And it's like, correct,

972
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 4: you needed to make the show or you're a little

973
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 4: about fucked, but now you're like passing the curse on.

974
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah it follows, Yeah, yeah it is.

975
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 5: And I think that was her thing is always like

976
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 5: trying to make modeling more than just being your face. Like,

977
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 5: what's your business? And that's look at social media. It's

978
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 5: like it's all, what is your brand?

979
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: Right?

980
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,919
Speaker 5: And I she started she started talking about branding though

981
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 5: before we see it in here, and I mean I

982
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 5: hate it too.

983
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: I'm look at me. I mean, she's a dummy.

984
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: She's not dumb, but it's yes, makes sense from a

985
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: business perspective.

986
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just makes it.

987
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 5: And then you go to it and then you go

988
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 5: open an ice cream shop in Australia.

989
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:53,040
Speaker 4: Okay, so she just opened an ice cream shop in Australia.

990
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: You're just pulling a random thing out. That's how you know,

991
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: that's the blueprint.

992
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 4: And like, I just kept sending videos about those for

993
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,359
Speaker 4: the past year. Every time I'd see and I'd send

994
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: it to you because it's like hot ice cream.

995
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 5: I didn't know what ice cream could be hot. Well,

996
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 5: she was going to do you guys, did you know

997
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 5: this one? And it fell through.

998
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: She was going to do.

999
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 5: Model Land, Model Land, Model Land in Santa Monica. I

1000
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 5: think covid is why it went away, and it's probably

1001
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 5: a good thing.

1002
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: But you could go.

1003
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,359
Speaker 5: You go with your friends and it was like curted

1004
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 5: rooms where you took photos and left with pretty photos

1005
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 5: of yourself model land.

1006
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 3: Oh okay, like camera shots for grown up but like

1007
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 3: but like but a theme park, but a theme park?

1008
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 5: And I wrote, I wrote ken, and I was like,

1009
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 5: if this is happening, we're getting a bus and everybody

1010
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 5: who's ever worked on Top Model is going.

1011
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, going to be like a runway everything.

1012
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 3: I mean, that's just an influencer installation, but like on

1013
00:53:58,120 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 3: a lap scale.

1014
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 1: I need model that happened, that feels like it all happen. Loa, Okay, wait,

1015
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: let me think about it. No I can't at all

1016
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 1: wait the pressure Okay, wait, no I can't.

1017
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 5: I won't even try because I know what my favorite

1018
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:16,160
Speaker 5: I don't want to.

1019
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 4: Steal you guys and like blow our minds.

1020
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. It's the movement of the eyes.

1021
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: Actually all smiles at each other. I look like I'm angry.

1022
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah you are. That's the point.

1023
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: So how how do you find things have gotten more

1024
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 3: responsible and and careful about the well being of the

1025
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 3: contestants and the modern era we or at least on

1026
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 3: shows you work on.

1027
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah I do, I do think, so, I really do.

1028
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 5: I think there is just like I was saying earlier,

1029
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 5: this duty of care like we at least I can't

1030
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,120
Speaker 5: speak on I don't do every reality show, but on

1031
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 5: the shows I've worked on, it's really important for me

1032
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 5: as a producer too, and I think all of these

1033
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,840
Speaker 5: experiences have led me to be that type of producer.

1034
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 5: And the companies I work with, we have a responsibility

1035
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 5: to the people who sign up to share their stories,

1036
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 5: and there's always aftercare, there's site care, there's we always

1037
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 5: offer that. I mean, every person I ever cast has

1038
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 5: my actual personal number, so I'm putting my name and

1039
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 5: my reputation on the line with them.

1040
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: They can find me easily.

1041
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: You know.

1042
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,720
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think there's also a responsibility of thinking

1043
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 5: like will this age well, you know.

1044
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: And poking holes.

1045
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 5: I always like to say, like, let's poke holes in

1046
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 5: the ship, like what are we not seeing. I also

1047
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 5: think there's just learned experience from the past. We have

1048
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 5: now a bucket of things. All of us that come

1049
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 5: to the table as producers and TV we have experience

1050
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 5: and we go, well, no, we we shouldn't do that

1051
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 5: because I worked on the Batchel and that happened, or

1052
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 5: I did this, and so there's just a lot more

1053
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,799
Speaker 5: experience in the production of reality TV now than there

1054
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 5: was in the early two thousands.

1055
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: That's what I see. I'd like to think I'm better,

1056
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: but I think you are.

1057
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 4: And I think it's great that things have gotten better

1058
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 4: because it was wild West.

1059
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: And I'm sure, yes it was.

1060
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 3: I'm sure there are some shows today we're going to

1061
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 3: find out the conditions were still extremely and whatever.

1062
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 5: But and there's budgets, and I think people feel the

1063
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 5: constraints of budgets, but they want big things. So yeah,

1064
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 5: I know there's I won't name the shows. I haven't

1065
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 5: worked on them, but I know shows out there and

1066
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 5: they're in the press. You can read you know, read

1067
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 5: any reddit. They'll be like they didn't feed us and

1068
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 5: blah blah blah. And and that's awesome that people are

1069
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 5: speaking up. I think that's a big thing, is too.

1070
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 5: You can't learn from it unless you speak up. So

1071
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 5: I'm a big proponent of that. I just always want

1072
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 5: to be on the end of like I'm so glad

1073
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 5: I did that show.

1074
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, that's my my.

1075
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 5: Goal as a producer is I want everyone to leave

1076
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 5: and be like yay, not ooops.

1077
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

1078
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 3: So there was a moment in my life when I

1079
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 3: was like, should I go on the Bachelor, and I

1080
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 3: told was telling like an earlier it's mainly because I

1081
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 3: want to hang out in a house with a bunch

1082
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 3: of girls in like cool places. But also I would

1083
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 3: never be into any of the bachelors that have ever existed.

1084
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 3: But the reason that I like was like, I am

1085
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 3: definitely not applying for that was because the contract everything

1086
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 3: it said about how it could make me say things

1087
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 3: I had never said. Oh, that's a great question I

1088
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 3: would Yeah, did you witness much of that? So and

1089
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 3: I get to answer this question all the time because

1090
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 3: it is a pretty general thing in all contracts, because

1091
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 3: I mean, lawyers are always protecting their people, right.

1092
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: I say.

1093
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 5: This producer I worked with on Top Model, Anthony, He's

1094
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 5: the one who taught me this, I will never make

1095
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 5: you who you aren't like because and especially in this

1096
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 5: day and age, you can't do that, like people have

1097
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 5: social media, Like, I can never make you who you aren't,

1098
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 5: but I can turn the volume up on who you are.

1099
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 5: So when they put that in there, it's because we'll

1100
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 5: film with you know, an episode will be shot over

1101
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 5: five or six days. Well it's got to be cut

1102
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 5: down to forty two minutes. So maybe it's not. I

1103
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 5: will never make people say I hate Megan when they

1104
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 5: said I like Megan, right, but but I would you know,

1105
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 5: if it was like I like Megan blah blah blah

1106
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 5: blah blah, I condense it to cut for time. So

1107
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 5: that's to simplify things or whatever. So the spirit to me,

1108
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 5: the way I interpret that, and I always tell people,

1109
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 5: is like, the spirit of that is we have to edit.

1110
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,280
Speaker 1: We have to edit a show.

1111
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 5: So on my honor, I always say, and like, I'm

1112
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 5: not going to work for the show that takes people

1113
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 5: and makes them who they.

1114
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: Are, and I have not experienced that.

1115
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 5: I truly believe every show I've done has been truly

1116
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 5: representative of the people who have been on that show.

1117
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: Even Top Model. I really don't.

1118
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 5: It's been a billion years, and maybe some of the

1119
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 5: girls will listen and be like, that's not true. I

1120
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 5: think the Post team was really reputable and they really

1121
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 5: wanted to cultivate the real stories of people and whether

1122
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 5: our challenges were crappy and all of that. I do

1123
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 5: think the storytelling of the women on that show was accurate.

1124
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: That's good at least.

1125
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think that just is unethical to me,

1126
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 5: So no, it is, and it's on that thing, and

1127
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 5: I could see why that's frightening. It's super frightening language

1128
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 5: in a contract I wouldn't sign for well.

1129
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 3: And there are people from certain franchises who have come

1130
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 3: out and been like, that's literally not what happened, and

1131
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 3: that's not what my intent was with saying that, and

1132
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 3: that's not who I am, and they me look like

1133
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 3: the villain because there so often has to be a villain.

1134
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 5: That is my favorite question to be asked is like archetypes,

1135
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 5: who's the villain?

1136
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: Who's that?

1137
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,200
Speaker 5: And what I love about TV now is like that

1138
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 5: doesn't work anymore, Like I truly don't think just flat

1139
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 5: or at least in my opinion, it doesn't mean shows

1140
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 5: aren't being made like that. But whenever I interview for jobs,

1141
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 5: especially women and telling stories about women, I just think

1142
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 5: there's such a responsibility where women are not just people

1143
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 5: who throw drinks at each other and make noise. We

1144
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 5: are We could have conflicts and we can fight, but

1145
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,919
Speaker 5: what is the why behind it? Always asking why and

1146
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 5: making sure the storytelling is asking that of the people

1147
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,960
Speaker 5: who signed up to be a part of a series.

1148
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 5: It's really important to me. So yes, I know there

1149
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,000
Speaker 5: are productions that do that. I would like to say

1150
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 5: I don't work on them, and I think it's really important,

1151
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 5: and that is the evolution of TV now. I just

1152
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 5: I don't think that that TV truly sells anymore, sells

1153
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 5: tickets like you can. I know, Mormon Wives is really

1154
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 5: like a loud cuckoo show. I don't love it, but

1155
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 5: I love I love knowing the relationships between the women.

1156
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 5: I do think they did an interesting job of asking why.

1157
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 5: I think they could have gotten harder on the paint

1158
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 5: in that and making people not flat characters. That's the

1159
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 5: big thing is no one's the villain. We're all the

1160
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,000
Speaker 5: good guy and we're all the villain. Everyone is both, right,

1161
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 5: we all have moments where we're both, and I think

1162
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 5: those are the most compelling stories if you can really

1163
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 5: like crack that in your characters.

1164
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: I mean, so that's the goal.

1165
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:57,240
Speaker 5: I don't know, But I also would be super cool

1166
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 5: going to be a professor at a college and saying

1167
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:00,439
Speaker 5: bye to TV.

1168
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: You could, you could, but it is fun.

1169
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 5: I mean, it's you get a project that's fun and

1170
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 5: then yeah, I don't know.

1171
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm rambling now.

1172
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 4: But are we missing any of the culte or any

1173
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 4: CULTI stories about America's Next Top Model.

1174
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 5: I mean it was like now I'm even thinking about

1175
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 5: like crew life was like we were we were a cult.

1176
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: We eaten, breathed and slip slept it.

1177
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 5: But I don't know specifically did you start to like,

1178
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:32,480
Speaker 5: did you start to.

1179
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 4: Feel like America's Next Top Model is like the most important?

1180
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: Oh?

1181
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Are you kidding me? And then I got to

1182
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 5: be on it and work on it. I was in

1183
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 5: the room when Tyra yelled, Yeah, I was there. I

1184
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 5: was sitting next to the camera operators, like, what the

1185
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 5: hell's happening? Is that supposed to happen? Yeah, but yeah,

1186
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 5: it was important. It's like a huge show. So we've

1187
01:02:56,160 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 5: thought we were the ship and you are and you were.

1188
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 5: Now I look back, I go, wow, But it's so

1189
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 5: so wild because everybody who worked on that show are

1190
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 5: all like really successful producers. They went off. We could

1191
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 5: say all the things about it. I will say, Ken

1192
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,280
Speaker 5: knew how to build a team of people. And we

1193
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 5: still text each other and maybe we are still in occult.

1194
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, my god.

1195
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I love Maybe not a popular opinion, but he

1196
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 4: seems like he cares.

1197
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: He definitely cares.

1198
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, Wendseay, you are one of the most interesting

1199
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: voices and reality TV production we.

1200
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: Could ever ask to join us.

1201
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you and you've done it and we are so

1202
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 4: grateful that you came on today.

1203
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 1: I want to know where they can find you.

1204
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 4: I also want you to give a little pitch for

1205
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 4: your project with their husband right now.

1206
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, I have a Instagram, but it's private, so no

1207
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 5: one has divined me on it. But I am doing

1208
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 5: a podcast. I'm taking my husband who's also a TV producer.

1209
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 5: We are entering the podcast space.

1210
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: Yes you are. When he.

1211
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 5: Was in his twenties working on The Apprentice and the whole,

1212
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 5: another whole, another cult we could talk about.

1213
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: He was also a sperm donor.

1214
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 5: And it's funny when we first started dating, we were

1215
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 5: friends and I said I don't want kids, like before

1216
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 5: we ruin our friendship. I just have to tell you, I,

1217
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 5: like truly know in my heart I don't want kids.

1218
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 5: And he's like me too. Asterisk I was a sperm

1219
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 5: donor and I went, wait, when you are in college

1220
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 5: and he's like no. When I was working on the

1221
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 5: Apprentice and you check the box like eighteen, come find me,

1222
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 5: and that is is like now, so we are now

1223
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 5: part of a Facebook group of parents of his. We're

1224
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 5: estimating like twenty seven children. WHOA and they're all friends

1225
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 5: and they like go on vacation together.

1226
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: O my god.

1227
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 5: And it's been a very wild journey so on Queer

1228
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 5: Eye this last season, I was telling Caromo about it

1229
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,040
Speaker 5: during one of our interviews and he's like, let's do

1230
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 5: a podcast. So that podcast is out and it's called

1231
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 5: Donor Dad. And it's been a very interesting wild ride.

1232
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 5: And we will not be a cult.

1233
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: I promise you won't be. You won't be.

1234
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 5: But yeah, it's been fun. It's been an interesting journey.

1235
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 5: So yeah, Donored awesome. Wherever you get your podcasts, go

1236
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 5: listen to it.

1237
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 4: Leave up five stars and Lindsey, thank you so much

1238
01:05:53,600 --> 01:05:54,400
Speaker 4: for joining us.

1239
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: Thank you both. This has been really fun. Yeah. I

1240
01:05:57,400 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: love it.

1241
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 3: And that's all we have with Lindsay. I am so

1242
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,560
Speaker 3: glad she joined us. I know she's such a delight.

1243
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: Megan.

1244
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 3: This of course begs the question which I feel like

1245
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,919
Speaker 3: you've probably answered in the interview, but would you go

1246
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 3: on America's Next Top Model?

1247
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 4: I would do anything to go on America's Next Top

1248
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:23,760
Speaker 4: Model early two Thousand's any challenge they threw my way,

1249
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 4: I would be right there, throwing my heart into it.

1250
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 4: Janna Stickinson would insult me, I would want her approval,

1251
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 4: and I would fall in love with Niles.

1252
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 3: Yeah that sounds right. All that sounds correct to me.

1253
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 3: I really wanted to go on, but I you know,

1254
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 3: I feel like in that era you had to be tall.

1255
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 3: Like I don't think the tall thing is a thing

1256
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 3: as much anymore. I mean maybe for runway models. But

1257
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 3: you know, we were talking about this earlier. Kate Moss

1258
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 3: is I think five to seven, and she was like,

1259
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 3: considered like so short.

1260
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like, we have a tiny, tiny person

1261
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 4: and she's just like a normal tall, like medium.

1262
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 3: She is tall, it's just not like crazy tall. But

1263
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:06,560
Speaker 3: I'm five three and a half. And I was like,

1264
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 3: well I could never but never. To be fair, you

1265
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 3: are a model, Well, I have modeled, but I'm what

1266
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,440
Speaker 3: they call an alt or. I was what they call

1267
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 3: an alternative model, which is like, you've aged out of

1268
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:20,560
Speaker 3: alternative modeling.

1269
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: That sounds impossible.

1270
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 3: No one has booked me on a modeling gig in

1271
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 3: a second, one second, will give it too.

1272
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: I was an alt model. Guys, that's so cheesy.

1273
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 3: But yes, I could do print, I could do like

1274
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:37,800
Speaker 3: a makeup company or whatever.

1275
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 4: Were you under the like influence of I need to

1276
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 4: get a ton of tattoos?

1277
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,120
Speaker 1: No, never, never.

1278
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 3: I was just like I knew because you know, I

1279
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 3: got the black hair, and I was like, if I

1280
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 3: get tattoos, it's going to be too much.

1281
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:53,120
Speaker 1: It's a hat on a hat exactly.

1282
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,840
Speaker 3: I don't need to do all that, right, but you know,

1283
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 3: just enough, just enough, little short black hair edge?

1284
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, cool? Wow, like Karen and Georgia. Everyone to be all.

1285
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 4: Everyone says you look like a mixture between the two,

1286
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 4: and you doo.

1287
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: I know. I don't know how this happened. You have

1288
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: to tie your hair black so you can match all

1289
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: of us? No, because I have to be the blonde one. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1290
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 3: You see what I'm saying. I see what you're saying. Yeah,

1291
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,799
Speaker 3: you could go red. That would also work. That's cruel, Lola.

1292
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 3: Can you imagine me with red hair? I have a

1293
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:35,240
Speaker 3: red undertone. Oh what Lola's doing right now is called sabotage. Okay, guys, listen,

1294
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:36,760
Speaker 3: I was red for a while. Didn't look great on

1295
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 3: me either. Let's be honest. You look good at anything.

1296
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 3: But I don't think the red was your best. It

1297
01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 3: wasn't my best. It depended on the tone anyway. We're

1298
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 3: going on the too long but I but it does

1299
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 3: include like modeling in hair, you know.

1300
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 4: And I do recall being with you once with the

1301
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 4: red ands and this person was like, I love the

1302
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 4: red hair, Never change it.

1303
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,719
Speaker 1: Do you remember this to me? Yeah?

1304
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 4: No, And I was like, oh gosh, I hope she

1305
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,200
Speaker 4: doesn't like, never change it.

1306
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 1: Okay.

1307
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 3: In fairness, I have seen some pictures of the like cooler,

1308
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,719
Speaker 3: darker versions of the red, and I'm like, that's so cute.

1309
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:22,320
Speaker 4: Listen, it looked good. I'm not saying it wasn't. It's

1310
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:25,680
Speaker 4: just the black is so iconic. Okay, you know what

1311
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:28,240
Speaker 4: I mean. You know that, like the red, it was

1312
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 4: a top modeling experiment where it's like, yeah, I was it, Yeah,

1313
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:35,759
Speaker 4: I was a new era. Yeah yeah it needed to happen.

1314
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 4: But in my heart, this is your hair color.

1315
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm getting tired of it, but we'll keep it for

1316
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 1: a while. Okay. Thank you.

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01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 4: As always, go rate us five stars. If you enjoyed

1318
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 4: our conversation, go please listen to Lindsay and Adams podcast.

1319
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 4: It's so funny. I need to join like a threat,

1320
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,040
Speaker 4: ble with them and help them raise their thousands of

1321
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 4: children or whatever.

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01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,719
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but I'm just gonna

1323
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 1: let it go.

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01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,880
Speaker 4: As always, remember to follow your guts, watch out for

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01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 4: red flags.

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01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:15,360
Speaker 3: And never ever trust me. Bye by. This has been

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Speaker 3: an exactly right production hosted by me Lola.

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01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 4: Blanc and Me Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is g.

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01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:23,919
Speaker 1: Holly. This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

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01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 4: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker

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01:10:27,479 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 4: is Patrick Kottner.

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01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

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01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,520
Speaker 4: Trust Me as executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hartstark

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01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 4: and Danielle Kramer.

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01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 3: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me podcast

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01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 3: or on TikTok at trust Me coult podcast.

1337
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 4: Got your own story about cults, extreme belief, our manipulation,

1338
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 4: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 3: Listen to trust Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.