1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Ay, Katie, did we use up all of our electricity 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: puns in the last episode we did together? 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, you're the one who's in charge. 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm trying to stay neutral on this. 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 2: That's just because you think that puns have such a 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: high potential. 7 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: They do, though, they do. They so much capacity for 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: humor in electricity. 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 2: It's almost like electricity induces its own jokes. 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: Let's see, we can get a few more, and it's 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: really down to the wire. 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: You will find no resistance for me. 13 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor 14 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: at you see Irvine, and I'm endlessly fascinated by electricity 15 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: and its capacity for puns. 16 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: My name is Katie Golden. I host an animal biology 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: podcast called Creature Feature, and I am a particle enthusiast. 18 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: I like particles, uh so I enjoy learning about them. 19 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 2: What's your favorite particle, Daniel. 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: Oh, my favorite particle? Wow? I feel like now they're 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: all listening to me. 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: Wonder just one? 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: I guess I gotta go top quark because I studied 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: it from my phdtiss and it's the most massive of 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: all the particles in that way, kind of the weirdest. 26 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: Oh okay, now, which one of the top particles is 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 2: your favorite? Pick one? 28 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Pick one. Well, that's actually quite hilarious because for my PhD, 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: I studied like six top quarks, like literally or six 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: that we found at the time. But the way particle 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: physics works is that you get more and more collisions 32 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: every year the things ramp up. So folks these days 33 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: doing their PhD have like tens of thousands of top 34 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 1: quarks they get to study. Wow, and I like names 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 1: for mine. I was like, oh, this is top quark 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: number four. Who I call this number two? Who I 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: call Sally. She's a bit weird, but I love her. 38 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: That's it's adorable. It's like the the seven Dwarfs, except 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: it's the six quarks. Yeah, sleepy grumpy. 40 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: I really got to know my top quarks. Well, how 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: about you? You said your pro particle. I'm glad to 42 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: hear that you're not anti particle. 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I mean I like things existing. I'm pro 44 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 2: existence of there being stuff. I like stuff. I like 45 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: the way that stuff works. I like being able to 46 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: It's like rainy today, and I appreciate the physics of 47 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: being able to have some tea and you know that 48 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: it's it's just those are the simple things. 49 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: Right, Like you're really sticking out a controversial position over 50 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: their pro. 51 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: Stuff, prost stuff, pro existence, pro hot tea. 52 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: And Welcome to the podcast Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe, 53 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio in which we are pro stuff, 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: we are pro particles, we are pro the universe, and 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: we are especially pro you understanding the universe because we 56 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: think that not only is the universe incredible and majestic 57 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: and kinda crazy and weird, but that it's also understandable 58 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: that with our tiny little human brains, we can develop 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: mathematical models and intuitive understanding for what's going on out 60 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: there in the rest of the universe, from the tiniest 61 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: little particles to the most massive of super massive black 62 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: holes and everything in between, including me and you and 63 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: Katie's dog. 64 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: Yes, Cookie is a very good physicist because she knows 65 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: that what goes up comes down when it comes to treats. 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: When I talk them, your dog's name is Cookie, not Biscotti. 67 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 2: She yeah, it's funny. We didn't change her name to 68 00:03:58,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: Italian when we moved here. 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: And why is your dog named Cookie? Is it because 70 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: she's so delicious. 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: It's wow. Well, no, I don't want to eat my 72 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: canine made out of dog meat. No, No, it's just 73 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 2: very very cute. When she was a little puppy, she's 74 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 2: very small and cute and kind of cream colored, so 75 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: she looked like a little biscotti, which is funny because 76 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 2: an Italian biscotti is actually just the general term for cookies, 77 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: like we say a biscotti, but that doesn't really make 78 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 2: any sense because it's like biscotti is plural, quick Italian 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: grammar lesson. 80 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: And doesn't piscotti actually mean like cook twice. 81 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I don't know if it just means 82 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: cooked twice. It really is just a general term for cookies, 83 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily the really hard ones that you 84 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: have to dunk to actually get any enjoyment out of. 85 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 2: It's just any cookie is called a biscato, and you know, 86 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: any kind of cookie is you know, like plural biscottis cookies. 87 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: Until somebody invents the next generation of cookies and then 88 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: they can call it like triscotti or something. 89 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: Right right by phosphate scotti. I don't know chemistry stuff, 90 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: but yeah, let's talk more about particles that are not 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 2: so visible as the biscotti particle. 92 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: That's right, because we're not just here to talk about cookies. 93 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: We're here to understand the whole universe down to the 94 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: tiness of the particles it's made out of. And on 95 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,679 Speaker 1: the podcast, we often talk about the mystery of electric charge. 96 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: What is it? Why do some particles have it, why 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: do other particles not have it? How does it all work? 98 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: And we usually think about it in terms of the 99 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: tiniest little individual particles. One is positive, one is negative, 100 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: one is neutral. But today we actually want to zoom 101 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: out and ask a much bigger, grander question about the 102 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 1: nature of electric charge. 103 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I got a fortune cookie message that 104 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: says you will have an electrifying experience. I'm really glad 105 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 2: it meant recording this podcast and not like I was 106 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 2: going to need to be resuscitated with those electric paddles. 107 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: And it might still happen. I mean, this podcast could 108 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: be very shocking. 109 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: Today we'll see, well, yeah, we'll see if my heart 110 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 2: can take it. But yeah, no, I mean it is interesting, 111 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: right because like electricity is, it's in everything. It's like 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: in our bodies, the heart rhythm, the cytostoism of our 113 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: heart is determined by electrical pulses our brain activity, Like 114 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: you are using electricity right now to think for your 115 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: brain to kind of understand this podcast. But then it's 116 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 2: also you know, it is throughout the universe in everything 117 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: in terms of how molecules stick to each other. So 118 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,559 Speaker 2: it's a very interesting force in that, Like I feel 119 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 2: like we kind of only think about it when it's 120 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: really obvious, like lightning or getting shocked by your toaster, 121 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: but it is literally almost everywhere. 122 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: It seems like it is almost everywhere, which makes us 123 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: inspired to think about it. In the grandest sense. We 124 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: can often learn something about the universe by trying to 125 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: zoom out by saying, well, what do all these particles 126 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: make or how do they come together? To determine the 127 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: biggest features of the universe its size, its shape, it's topology, 128 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: all this amazing stuff. So in today on the podcast, 129 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: we want to start from the little particles they're electric charges, 130 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: and zoom out to think about the whole universe. And 131 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: so today in the podcast, we'll be answering the question 132 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: what is the total electric charge of the universe? 133 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 2: Twenty that's my guess. It just feels it feels right. 134 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 2: It feels like a good number. Twenty charge. 135 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: You know, there is something interesting about the numerology of 136 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: the universe. If you imagine like writing down the final 137 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: equation of the universe or looking at the final numbers 138 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,559 Speaker 1: in the final theory, you got to wonder, like why 139 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: those numbers are not some other numbers. You know, there 140 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: are some numbers that obviously are just human and not 141 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: important because they have units on them, and we make 142 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: up units and so anything with the units on it 143 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: is irrelevant. But you know, it's like the final theory 144 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: of string theory that explains the universe has like a 145 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: three in it or eleven in it. Then you got 146 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: to wonder, like why that number is the universe somehow? 147 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: Eleven ish right? 148 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 2: M Yeah, it does have kind of an eleveny feeling 149 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: to it. I think that makes sense. 150 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: That sounds like a delicious name for a cookie. 151 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 2: Eleveny sounds like eleven to cookie. So I guess, like 152 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: when we're talking about like total electric charge, like I 153 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: don't even know where to start really, because it's like, 154 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it could be positive, it could be negative, 155 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: it could be neutral. I don't know if they're like 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: if this is something that even could have a number, right, Like, 157 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: if it's a positive charge, could it have a positive 158 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: Is twenty even a possible answer? 159 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: Tony actually is a possible answer. But we're gonna see 160 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of sort of assumptions built into 161 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: this discussion about what's natural, what makes sense, what numbers 162 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: we would sort of accept, what numbers need explanation, and 163 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 1: what numbers don't need explanation, and so these kind of 164 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: questions I think are fascinating because they reflect not just 165 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: our understanding of the universe, but our attitudes about it, 166 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: our biases, our presuppositions about what kind of answers make sense. 167 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,839 Speaker 1: So I was wondering, as usual, what people thought about 168 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 1: this question before we dove in. So I went out 169 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: there and I asked our group of volunteers what they 170 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: thought about this question. If you'd like to join this 171 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: not very illustrious, but very enthusiastic group of volunteers, please 172 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: write to me at questions at Danielandhorge dot com. So 173 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: think about it for a moment before you hear these answers. 174 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: What do you think the total electric charge of the 175 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: whole universe could be? Here's what people had to say. 176 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 3: I would say zero, so that all the charges eventually 177 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 3: equal out. That would seem nice and symmetric. But since 178 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: that's almost certainly not the right answer, I'm gonna go 179 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 3: with plus five electron vaults. 180 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 4: Well, I know there's the law of the conservation of energy, 181 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 4: so I guess it probably depends on what the charge 182 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 4: was of all the energy that existed during the Big Bang. 183 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 4: Given that Daniel and Jorge are explainers of the universe, 184 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 4: there are two people, and they're both very positive, I'm 185 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: going to say plus two. 186 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 5: The electromagnetic field, as far as I understand it, can 187 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 5: be thought I was covering the entire universe, and I 188 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 5: don't see why that would have been created with a 189 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 5: non zero value. So I'm going to say the overall 190 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 5: electric charge is zero. 191 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 6: Shouldn't this be zero because all this symmetry of particles 192 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 6: and charges and the words for maximizing entropy is this emulated. 193 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 6: I have my dear, I feel like the net electric 194 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 6: charge in the universe must be zero, but that's probably 195 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 6: not correct. 196 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 7: I want to guess that it's the same as a 197 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 7: single electron, only because if every electron is just an 198 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 7: expression of the excitation of a single field, then that 199 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 7: whole field represents the charge of a single electron. Oh Man, Daniel, 200 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 7: I don't know, sounds good. 201 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 2: I love the answer. That's like, it seems like it 202 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: should be zero, like neutral, but knowing that the universe 203 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: is weird, it's probably like five. 204 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: That was basically your answer, right, I think that makes 205 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: a lot of sense. 206 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: That basically sums up this is typically what I learned 207 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: from these recordings with you, is that it's like, well, 208 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: it seems like it should be something really like neat 209 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: and precise and tidy, and then it's something like five 210 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: point seven units of physics. 211 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: It's true that the universe is chock full of surprises, 212 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: and the way that we think things should work isn't 213 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: always the way things actually work. But I think this 214 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: already raises that really fascinating issue. Like if I told 215 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: you the answer is zero, you'd be like, cool, that 216 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: kind of makes sense, and you might not even need 217 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: any more explanation because zero is just like a natural answer. 218 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: But if I tell you the answer is five, then 219 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: you're like, well, why five? Why not four? Why not seventeen? Right? 220 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: Then it needs an explanation. It tells us something about 221 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: the kind of answers we're willing to accept about these 222 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: deep questions about the universe. 223 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 2: I'm not anti math, but like, I don't think math 224 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 2: is a natural thing for me, and certainly not like 225 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: the kind of math required to sum up all of 226 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 2: the charge of the universe, which sounds very time consuming. 227 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: How would you even go about, like what is the 228 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 2: mathematical process here? We're hopefully not counting the atoms and 229 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: their charges and just summing them up, because that seems 230 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 2: like it would take a whole afternoon. 231 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what we're doing. What when we talk 232 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: about the total electric charge of the universe, we really 233 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: just mean put all the protons on one side and 234 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: all the electrons on the other side and count them 235 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: up and add it all up. 236 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: It sounds like doing taxes. 237 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, we're doing the accounting of the universe. It's 238 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: just one big Excel file. Actually, that's the way the 239 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: universe works. It's it's just a big Excel's bridge. 240 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 2: Oh god, that's the darkest outcome. 241 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: But you know, that's really how we define things. The 242 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: chargement of is the sum of the charges of things. 243 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: It's made out of Like if you have a cloud 244 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: of hydrogen gas. It's made of protons electrons, one proton 245 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: per electron, so the whole cloud is neutral. If you 246 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: added like one proton in there without an electron, then 247 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: the whole cloud would have an overall positive charge. So 248 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: that's really fascinating because the charge of an object really 249 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: is just the sum of the charges. There's nothing else 250 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: going on in there. It's very crisp, very clean to 251 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: calculate the charge of an object. 252 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,079 Speaker 2: So I noticed in a lot of the answers, which 253 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: I also kind of understand and agree with, that there 254 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 2: is this and what you said earlier, which is there's 255 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: this comfort with the idea of it being zero because 256 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 2: that seems balanced, right, Like this intuitive feeling that there 257 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 2: should be for every positively charged particle there should be 258 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 2: a negatively charged particle that they're for every proton there 259 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: should be an electron. Essentially, Why do you think there 260 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 2: is this assumption which I'm not necess really disagree with. 261 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 2: I just think that's interesting that that is a comfortable 262 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 2: stance for people to take, Like, what is it about 263 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: that neutrality that we like so much? 264 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great question and a deep one. 265 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: I think it just reflects our biases. You know, I 266 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: think we like to imagine that the universe makes sense, 267 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: that it runs on laws, and those laws are reasonable 268 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: and they make sense, and that they're not arbitrary, and 269 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: having the overall universe have it's sort of just an 270 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: arbitrary number for its charge. It needs an explanation, you know, 271 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: why eighteen? Why sixteen? And it takes a sort of 272 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: different philosophical approach to ask, like, well, doesn't zero also 273 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: need an explanation, Like if you have exactly the same 274 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: number of protons and electrons in the universe, doesn't that 275 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: also need some explanation. It's sort of an amazing coincidence. 276 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: Anytime you see a coincidence in nature, you wonder like, hmmm, 277 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: is there a reason for that? Is there some underlying 278 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: process we're not aware of that's making that happen, And 279 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: sometimes it does and sometimes it's not. You know, there's 280 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: a huge coincidence in our sky. The sun and the 281 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: moon are almost exactly the same size in our sky, 282 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: which makes for very dramatic eclipses. Is that a coincidence? Yeah? Absolutely, 283 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: There's no reason why the sun and the moon should 284 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: be the same size at all, Like they're very differently 285 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: sized objects, very different distances away from the Earth. It's 286 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: just a literally cosmic coincidence that they balance each other 287 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: in the sky and appeared to be the same size 288 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: other times. We think that there might really be an 289 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: underlying reason why the universe would have some cosmic coincidence. 290 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: So in the case of its total charge, we're just 291 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: adding up the protons and the electrons and counting them. 292 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: And I just want to go back to this for 293 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: one minute, because I think it's kind of amazing that 294 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: you can calculate the whole charge of the universe just 295 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: by adding up its bits, because you know that's not 296 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: true for other stuff, like for mass, right, you can't 297 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: just say, well, what's the mass of the universe. I'm 298 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: going to add up the mass of all the quarks 299 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: and the electrons. Because we've talked about lots of times 300 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 1: on the podcast, like the mass of the proton is 301 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: not just the mass of the things that's made out 302 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: of there's also energy in its bonds which contributes to 303 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: its mass. So mass is much more slippery of a 304 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: concept than electric charge. Electric charge is incredibly crisp and clean, 305 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: and so you actually can measure the electric charge of 306 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: the universe on an Excel spreadsheet is really just very 307 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: simple map, but the numbers are staggering, Like how many 308 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: protons are there in the universe is something like ten 309 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: to the eighty protons in the universe. And that's, of 310 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: course just the observable universe, just the part that we 311 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: can see and interact with, and that life has had 312 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: enough time to travel to us since the origin of 313 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: the universe. We think they're like ten with eighty zeros 314 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: after it, protons in that chunk of the universe. What 315 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: lies beyond, of course, we can't know. 316 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, this seems like the trickiest part, right is obviously 317 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: we cannot have a bean counter go throughout the whole 318 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 2: universe counting every single electron and proton, but we would 319 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: need to sort of, you know, almost like average out 320 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: like what our expectations are, Like take a slice of 321 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 2: the universe, figure out like if it's a representative sample 322 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: of the universe, and then scale that up or something. 323 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 2: I don't even know. Look, I'm thinking in terms of 324 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: sort of like biology studies and statistics and stuff, but 325 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: I don't even know if those kinds of things work 326 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 2: for the universe, right, because you could have. You could 327 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: take a reasonably large slice of the universe and try 328 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: to assume it's a representative sample of the whole universe. 329 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: But you know, then you could have an entire, massively 330 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 2: large area of the universe where you know the density 331 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 2: of stuff, or there's a presence of a black hole, 332 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 2: and things are completely different. 333 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: Now, this is a really good point, and I think 334 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: that fundamentally we need to talk about the universe as 335 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: a whole, even beyond what we can see. Because imagine 336 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: the universe is infinite, right, It's still possible that it 337 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: has an equal number of electrons and protons, that the 338 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: total universe charge is neutral. But then you know where 339 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: any individual particle is going to be is going to 340 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,719 Speaker 1: be a little bit random. So if you take an 341 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: observable universe sized scoop of that infinite universe, you could 342 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: take lots of different scoops one here, when they're one 343 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: exactly where we are, you might get exactly the same 344 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: number of electrons and protons, but that's actually quite unlikely. 345 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: You're very likely to get a slight difference in the 346 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: protons and electrons for any random scoop. Overall, they would 347 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: average out, but any observable universe scoop would probably have 348 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: a very small difference. And that's not something we can 349 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: practically measure, because, as you say, you have to go 350 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: touch every proton and every electron. But we can think 351 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: about the overall universe, and we can extrapolate from what 352 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: we've learned about the laws of physics and what we've 353 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: observed about the behavior of charges in our scoop to 354 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: think about what the overall charge of the universe is. 355 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 2: Okay, So it's all about sort of trying to figure 356 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,479 Speaker 2: out some underlying rule that we might be able to 357 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: safely assume applies to the rest of the universe, rather 358 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 2: than trying to get sort of a representative sample, like 359 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: we are looking for something that seems like a consistent 360 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,360 Speaker 2: rule that should apply and scale up. 361 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we can actually do both. We can 362 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: think about what would make sense, what the rules of 363 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: electricity and magnetism are, and whether we think the universe 364 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: should be neutral, and then we can do our best 365 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: to go out there and look to see if that 366 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,239 Speaker 1: actually works, look for any evidence of deviation from that, 367 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: see if we can find hints that we could be 368 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: wrong about the nature of the universe. 369 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm gonna go get my big old chalkboard 370 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: on wheels do some goodwill hunting style, like suddenly I'm 371 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 2: good at math inexplicably, and then maybe I'll come up 372 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: with the number. But we'll take a quick break and 373 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 2: we'll see what Daniel thinks of that number I come 374 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 2: up with. So, Daniel, I did some I just wrote 375 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: some random fractions, but I'm not really getting anywhere. I 376 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: think that I need more stuff to work with here 377 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 2: in my math exploration, because this is a thing, like 378 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 2: with theoretical math and theoretical physics, I have such a 379 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: hard time understanding where one even begins to try to understand, 380 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 2: like I would assume perhaps for this like there would 381 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: be some you would start with some experiments to see 382 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 2: if there is some kind of rule that it's consistent 383 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: in terms of the average charge of a system. 384 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: And so we can start theoretically and think about like 385 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: how electromagnetism works. And as you say, thinking about the 386 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: rules is really important because it helps us understand, like, also, 387 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: can the electric charge of the universe change? Is it 388 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: possible for it to go up and down? Because if 389 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: it is, then it's very difficult to imagine the electric 390 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: charge of the universe is zero, or even to know 391 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: what the number is. But something that's super fascinating and 392 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: super important about electric charge really that it's deeply fundamental 393 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: to the nature of the universe and matter itself, is 394 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: that electric charge is conserved. That means that the total 395 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: electric charge we think can never change. Whatever that number is. 396 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: Add up all the pluses and all the minuses, and 397 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: you get some number zero or seven or whatever that 398 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: cannot change. Is no physical process in the universe that 399 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: can change that number. There's a wrinkle there. It doesn't 400 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: mean you can't create and destroy charged particles, right Like, 401 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: you can have a photon which has no charge, and 402 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: it can turn into an electron and its antiparticle the positron, 403 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: so that you have created new charged particles, but you 404 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: created a plus one and a minus one, so the 405 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: total charge hasn't changed. Photon with zero the positron and 406 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: electron pair total charge is still zero. So that kind 407 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: of stuff can happen. You can create and destroy charge particles, 408 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: but for some reason, the universe doesn't let you just 409 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 1: make an electron or just make a positron. You have 410 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: to keep those charges balanced. 411 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 2: Interesting so when I rub my feet real fast against 412 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: the carpet, I'm wearing socks, and I have changed my 413 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 2: charge slightly, And so I assume though then I have 414 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: potentially also changed the charge of the carpet or something. 415 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 2: Right like, It's not like I don't just produce a 416 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: positive Well, actually, I guess I don't know what my 417 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 2: charges once I rubbed my socks real fast against the carpet. 418 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 2: All I know is that I have changed my state 419 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 2: somewhat so that when I touch a doorknob, I get 420 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: a little zap. But my assumption is that this is 421 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: not coming out of nowhere. There's some exchange happening exactly. 422 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 1: That's a really deep insight right there. That if something 423 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: is conserved, then there has to be a current of it. 424 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: Then in order for you to get some of it, 425 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: it has to come from somewhere. It has to flow. 426 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: So if you're going to get a bunch of electrons, 427 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: you can't just create them from nothing. They have to 428 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: come from somewhere. Somewhere else has to lose electrons. If 429 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: you're going to gain electrons, or more specifically, if you're 430 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: going to gain negative charges, something else has to gain 431 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,919 Speaker 1: positive charges either by losing a life netrons or creating 432 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: positrons or something. So this is like a conserved current 433 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: in the universe. You cannot just create charge out of nothing. 434 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: If you're getting it, it comes from somewhere, and that 435 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: tells you that it's like deeply ingrained in the nature 436 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: of reality itself. And there's lots of things in the 437 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 1: universe we see are almost conserved, like energy is mostly conserved. 438 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,439 Speaker 1: And this is hard for people to grasp because they 439 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: think of that way of energy, that energy has to 440 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: come from somewhere and go to somewhere. But actually we 441 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: know that energy increases in the universe as it expands. 442 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: So energy is mostly conserved, but not Actually it's not 443 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: an exact symmetry or conservation of the universe. Same with 444 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: lots of other things we talk about, like lefton number 445 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: or other symmetries we have in particle physics. But this 446 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: one is exact. This one in the universe will never 447 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: ever let you violate. It's like down to the wire. 448 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: It will not give an inch on charge conservation. 449 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: I don't want to go on a tangent, but you 450 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 2: said that the energy increases as the universe expands. 451 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, energy is only conserved if space is constant. But 452 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: if space is expanding, then is creating more space, and 453 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: that new space always comes with energy built in. It's 454 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: like the dark energy of the universe, So the total 455 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: energy of the universe is actually increasing if space is expanding. 456 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: We have a whole podcast about that. 457 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: It's really fun, that's really cool. Yeah, I'm gonna listen 458 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 2: to it. 459 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: But that's not true for electric charge. And I want 460 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: to disentangle two concepts here. We're talking a lot about 461 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: particles and antiparticles, and it's true that if you make 462 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: an electron, you also have to make its antiparticle. But 463 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: charge conservation is not the same thing as like matter 464 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: conservation or antimatter conservation. Matter particles can be positive or 465 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: they can also be negative. Antimatter particles can be positive 466 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: and they can be negative. So for example, electron we 467 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: call matter and it's negative. Proton we call matter and 468 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: it's positive. Antiproton would be negative, anti electron, the positron 469 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: would be positive. And it's a whole other question about 470 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: like matter antimatter symmetry in the universe. Like we think 471 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: that the treats matter and antimatter almost exactly the same 472 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 1: way but not quite right. But charge conservation is a 473 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: different thing than matter antimatter. Conservation matter anti matter is 474 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: another example of one where the universe is almost conserved, 475 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: almost symmetric, but not exactly. But charge conservation the universe 476 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: respects exactly. 477 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 2: That's so interesting. It's like it makes it feel like 478 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: like electricity in charge is like much more. I mean, 479 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 2: I guess everything is fundamental, but it's like that this 480 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,719 Speaker 2: is like the sort of one of the you know, 481 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: most fundamental aspects or causal aspects of the function of 482 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 2: the universe. 483 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like a deep clue about the nature 484 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: of reality itself. And you might ask, like, well, where 485 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: does it come from? Right? Why is it this way? 486 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: What does it tell us about the nature of reality? 487 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: And about one hundred years ago a mathematician Emmy Nuther 488 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: told us that everything that's conserved in the universe, anytime 489 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: there's a quantity that doesn't change, like momentum, is conserved 490 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: in a similar way. It tells you about some symmetry 491 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: in the universe that every conservation law, like conservation of 492 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: electric charge or conservation of momentum comes from some symmetry. 493 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: And that's a nuclear's theorem that every symmetry leads to 494 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 1: a conservation law. If there's a symmetry, it means some 495 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: quantity is conserved. And the case of momentum, the reason 496 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: momentum is conserved in the universe is because there's no 497 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: absolute location in space. Every place in the universe has 498 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: the same laws of physics. We think, it doesn't matter 499 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: if you do your experiment here or somewhere else, or 500 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: an alpha centauri, like, the fundamental laws of the universe 501 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: are the same. It's called translation invariance, and you do 502 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of math, and out of translation in 503 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: variance comes conservation of momentum. So then you might ask, well, 504 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: what symmetry is it that creates conservation of electric charge? 505 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: Why do we have that? What does it tell us 506 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 1: about the universe? It's a little bit mathematical. It tells 507 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: us something about the phase of the electromagnetic field. The 508 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: electromagnetic field of these numbers that feel all of space 509 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: right and like, do you have an electric field here? 510 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: Do you have a magnetic field here? But those numbers 511 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: also have directions, like everywhere in space. The electromagnetic field 512 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: isn't just a number, it's an arrow. It points in 513 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,159 Speaker 1: a certain direction, and the phase of that arrow, like 514 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,879 Speaker 1: which direction it's actually pointing in, turns out to not 515 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: really matter. You can change that without changing the dynamics 516 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: of electromagnetism, and so it's a little bit mathematical and abstract, 517 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: but this is the quantity whose symmetry leads to conservation 518 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: of electric charge. And actually there's a whole set of 519 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: these symmetries, of these fundamental fields of the universe that 520 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: lead to conservation laws. We have an episode about these 521 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: gauge symmetries and how they lead to conservations and how 522 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,719 Speaker 1: they're really deeply fundamental to the way the universe works. 523 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: So it's a little bit abstract, but conservation of electric 524 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: charge is telling us something about the nature of the 525 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: electromagnetic field and the symmetries of that field. 526 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 2: If you changed the direction of an electromagnetic field, would 527 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: that have an impact on the direction of other electromagnetic 528 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 2: fields or what is just simply change direction and have 529 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: no impact on anything else. 530 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: It absolutely would have an impact if you didn't have photons. 531 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: So photons are the things that actually preserve this symmetry. 532 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: Without photons, you can't have this symmetry in the universe. 533 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: Photons like zip around transmitting this information about the direction 534 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: of electric field changing from here to there. You can 535 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: actually deduce the existence of photons just by saying I 536 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,719 Speaker 1: want an electromagnetic field and I wanted to have this 537 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: weird particular symmetry. For that to happen, you have to 538 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: have photons. And so that sort of like explains why 539 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: we have photons, why we have forces. In general, all 540 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: of the forces are actually there to preserve these symmetries. 541 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: So it's a really fascinating and deep new way to 542 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: think about the nature of forces. Encourage everybody interested in 543 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: this stuff to check out our episode about gauge symmetry. 544 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: But this tells us something about the nature of electric charge, 545 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: but it's still not something we really understand. Like we 546 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: kick the can down the road a little bit. We say, okay, 547 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: so just conserving the universe, Why well because of this 548 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: other weird symmetry in the universe. Why does it have 549 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: that other weird symmetry. We don't know. That's just like 550 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: something we observe, and this is the process of science, right, 551 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: We're like, why is this oh because of that? 552 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 7: Well? 553 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: Why that? Oh because of this other thing? Well why 554 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: that other thing, right, and so we're sort of at 555 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: that stage and we're like, we don't know what that 556 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: really means, but we do think the universe preserves it. 557 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's interesting. I think it's also interesting 558 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: this sort of way you phrased it, which is that 559 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: like photons are here in order to maintain this neutrality 560 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 2: or this conservation. And look, I'm totally here for the ride, 561 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 2: so I believe you. But I also think it's interesting that, like, uh, 562 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 2: I think that sometimes like we have as humans, we 563 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: are extremely causal, right, Like we love a thing that 564 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 2: like had like this causes this, right X causes why 565 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: I push a ball? That's what causes the ball to 566 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 2: roll down the hill. I wonder like if you know 567 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: there's something I mean it it certainly seems like everything 568 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: is interlocking in this extremely precise way, but it's like, well, 569 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 2: could one option be like everything sort of happened all 570 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 2: at once, right, like in terms of like everything maybe interlocking, 571 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 2: but one thing doesn't necessarily cause another thing, or could 572 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: it be like that you have this fundamental rule about 573 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 2: charge being conserved, and then somehow like photons became this, 574 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 2: Like I mean, in biology, it's like called the spandrel, 575 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 2: where it's like this thing that doesn't at least initially 576 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 2: have any purpose, but it is just because of the 577 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: structure of the organism. This structure has to exist. Like 578 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: an architecture, you'll have a spandrel being like a section 579 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: of the wall when you have an archway like that 580 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 2: is sort of between the rectangle of the opening and 581 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 2: then the arch. There's like those little kind of like 582 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 2: curvy pizza slices which are the spandrels, and they don't 583 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 2: actually serve any structural purpose, but they just have to 584 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 2: exist because the arch is there. And so like I 585 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: find that kind of interesting of like how do we like, 586 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: what are some of the ways that we think about 587 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: these Like could photons just obviously we have use for 588 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: photons now and they fit in with everything in all 589 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: the other particles in the universe, But just like, are 590 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: these things just happening because of some fundamental rule basically 591 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: forced everything else into place? Or did everything just kind 592 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: of pop into place all at once? And now my 593 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 2: brain hurts, Yeah, we don't know. 594 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: The answer to that question. We're struggling to figure it out. 595 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: We think that maybe understanding the nature of reality at 596 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: a deeper level, you know, quantum gravity. That might explain 597 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: where all these fields come from and why we have 598 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: them and why they have These symmetries could help us 599 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: understand why this exists in our universe. And there's some 600 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: people exploring theories that suggest that maybe charge is in conserved, 601 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: like maybe it's almost conserved, ben we've never seen it 602 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 1: be broken, but at some very tiny level, like very 603 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: very rarely can be broken. And most of these theories 604 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: suggest that our universe exists in higher dimensions, that like 605 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: it's more than just the three dimensions of space plus 606 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: one dimension of time that we're used to, but that 607 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: it's like five dimensional or six dimensional or ten dimensional 608 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: or whatever, and that maybe it's neutral in that ten 609 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: dimensional space, but in our like four dimensional subspace, maybe 610 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: it's not. You know, if you imagine the whole universe 611 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: is neutral, but you have like a random slice of it, 612 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: then particles can move in and out of that slice, 613 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: and that would look to you like charge is not conserved. 614 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: There's no data to support these ideas, but it's the 615 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: kind of things people are thinking about. You could create 616 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: charge non conservation in our universe by sort of expanding 617 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: the concept of the universe to something with more dimensions 618 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: in it. But if the universe does respect charge conservation, 619 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: that means that the total charge of the universe now 620 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: is the same as it was a minute ago, is 621 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: the same as it was in hours ago, is the 622 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: same as it was a billion years ago, Which means 623 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: that to figure out what the charge of the universe 624 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: is today, we only need to think about what the 625 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: charge of the universe was at the Big Bang or 626 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: when it began, right, and that will tell us what 627 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: the charge of the universe is still today. And that 628 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: relies really crucially on the charge never changing. So that's 629 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: why that's such an important part of this argument. 630 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,479 Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to see a video of the Big Bang, 631 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 2: which Daniel clearly has, but let's take a little bit 632 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: of a break so I can hydrate before my mind 633 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 2: is blown. And then when we get back, Daniel's going 634 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: to explain exactly what happened during the Big Bang, leave 635 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:55,880 Speaker 2: no detail undescribed. All right, Daniel, you promised, you promised 636 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: this big Bang? What happened there? What was up with that? 637 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: Think you may have oversold this maybe a little bit. 638 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: You're right that the argument is if we know the 639 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: charge of the universe when it began. Then we know 640 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: the charge of the universe now because it hasn't changed. 641 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,399 Speaker 1: So do we know the charge of the universe when 642 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: it began? Well, do we know how the universe began? 643 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: Unfortunately we don't, right, and people think about the Big Bang, 644 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: is this moment fourteen billion years ago when the universe began? 645 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: But really things are much fuzzier than that. What we 646 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,880 Speaker 1: do know is fourteen billion years ago the universe was 647 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: in some very hot and dense state. We know that 648 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: because we see how the universe is progressing over time. 649 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: The further back we are looking in time, so we 650 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: can see the history of the universe. It's literally written 651 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: in the night sky. 652 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 2: This is because light takes time to reach us, and 653 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 2: so we know based on the distance that it was, Like, 654 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 2: if stuff is closer, it's coming to us more recently 655 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 2: in time, and if stuff is further away, it's coming 656 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 2: to us further back in time. 657 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: Right, like from that direction is arriving now that left 658 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: a long long time ago. So the images we are 659 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: seeing when we look really really far away are in 660 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: the deep, deep past, and what they tell us is 661 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 1: that the universe is getting colder. As it gets older, 662 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: it gets more spread out, more dilute, it gets chiller. 663 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: And if you run that clock backwards in time, then 664 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: the universe is getting hotter as you get backwards, and 665 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: more dense. So the universe started in some very hot 666 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: dense state and then spread out over time. And people 667 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: often think of the Big Bang as some dot of 668 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,720 Speaker 1: matter spreading out into empty space. But the more accurate 669 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,440 Speaker 1: picture is that the universe was already infinite, already filled 670 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: with an infinite amount of hot, dense stuff everywhere, and 671 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: the Big Bang is the expansion of that space, space 672 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: being created between those particles spreading out to make those 673 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: things colder and more dilute. That's our picture of the 674 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: Big Bang. And that's as far back as we can go. 675 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: Our theories of physics work really, really well back to 676 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: that hot dense state. Understanding how it is banded and 677 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: cooled and formed stuff. Kittens and ice cream and lava 678 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: and hamsters and all that good stuff before that, we 679 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: just really don't know. 680 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: They don't mix particularly well those things anyway. 681 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: Kitten ice cream, oh my gosh, really. 682 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 2: And hamsters, they don't. They don't love lava. 683 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: You could put a nice piscatti run on top of 684 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: that scoop of kitten ice cream. Perfectly you should name 685 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: your kitten cookie instead of your dog. But the pla 686 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: is that we don't know where that came from, right, 687 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: And so there's ideas, you know, it could be that 688 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 1: it decayed from some other unknown field like the Inflanton field, 689 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: or it could be as a bubble of exotic stuff 690 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: which turned into our universe. We don't really know. And 691 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: here's where we get sort of like philosophical, and we say, well, 692 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: probably it was born and neutral, because what else makes sense? 693 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 2: Well, so if it's if we know it was super 694 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 2: hot and dense, is there something about heat and density 695 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 2: that could like tell us about the charge? Right, Like 696 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 2: do we know like if when we have really hot 697 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: dnse stuff, do we know the charge of those things? 698 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 2: And like could we somehow extrapolate like what is the 699 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: likely charge of like the it's like super super soup 700 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 2: of the initial universe. 701 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's where we get into the evidence. The 702 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,960 Speaker 1: only theoretical argument we have is the universe should be 703 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: neutral because it only makes sense for it to be 704 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: born neutral. And we're pretty sure that if it was 705 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: born neutral, it's still neutral, Well, do we have any 706 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 1: evidence to back that up. We can't actually look at 707 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 1: pictures from the very very early universe and look for 708 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: hints to see if there was any overall positive or 709 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: negative charge, because that really does affect how things oscillate. 710 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: So the oldest images that we have, the earliest measurements 711 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: we can make of the early universe, are from about 712 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: three hundred and eighty thousand years after that very very hot, 713 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: dense state. That's when things cool down enough that like 714 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: protons and electrons start to hang out to get into 715 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: neutral atoms, and then the universe became transparent. Before that, 716 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: it was hot and dense and opaque like the center 717 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: of the sun. After that moment became more transparent like 718 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,760 Speaker 1: the air which let's light through. So we can still 719 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: see life from that last moment of opacity still shining 720 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: around the universe. That's the cosmic microwave background radiation we 721 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,840 Speaker 1: talked about a lot on the podcast, and by looking 722 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: at patterns in that light, we can tell how that 723 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: gas or how that last moment of plasma was oscillating, 724 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: was sloshing around. We see all sorts of cool patterns 725 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 1: in that plasma that tell us like how much dark 726 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: matter there was in the universe, how much normal matter, 727 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 1: how many photons? The imprint of the ripples and the 728 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: cosmic microwave background radiation are an extraordinarily precise way to 729 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 1: understand the dynamics of that early plasma, and we can 730 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: actually use that to answer the question of whether there 731 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: was any overall charge very very far back in their 732 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: early universe. 733 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 2: Okn, So how do we look at the charge of 734 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 2: this background radiation that we can actually observe on Earth. 735 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,280 Speaker 1: Well, the lucky thing is electromagnetism is super duper powerful, 736 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: Like it's so much more powerful than gravity that if 737 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: there was any positive charge or any negative overall charge 738 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: in those clouds of gas, we would see it because 739 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: it would overwhelm gravity. Mostly. When we look at the 740 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: cosmic backroway background radiation and use it to think about 741 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 1: like the sloshing and the oscillation of that gas in 742 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 1: the early universe, we see gravitational effects. We see dark 743 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: matter pulling it in, we see particles passing through each other. 744 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: We can think about the acoustic waves of pressure in 745 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: that gas, so we can see the gravitational effects if 746 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: there was any charge left over, any positive or negative 747 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: we would see a really strong effect because it would 748 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: overwhelm all that gravity. And yet when we look at 749 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: the data, we only see gravity effects. We see no 750 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: indication there that there's any positive or any negative charge 751 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: in the early universe clouds. 752 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 2: Of gas that would indicate that maybe it is zero, right, 753 00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: that it's neutral. 754 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,720 Speaker 1: You can't actually pinning down all the way to zero. 755 00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,959 Speaker 1: You can do a set a limit and say, look, 756 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: if there is an excess of protons or electrons, it's 757 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: got to be a tiny fraction, because if it was 758 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: any bigger, we would have seen it. And numerically what 759 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: that means is that, like, if there's an overall positive 760 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: or negative charge, it has to be less than one 761 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: part in ten to the twenty nine, which means like 762 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,399 Speaker 1: for every ten of the twenty nine protons, there's ten 763 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: to the twenty nine electrons plus one. 764 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 2: I may not know math, but I know that's that's tiny. 765 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:31,920 Speaker 2: That's very small. 766 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 1: It's very small. 767 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 2: If you put that in as like a thing, I 768 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 2: couldn't see that thing. 769 00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: That's true. It is very very small. It's not exactly zero, 770 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: and ten to the twenty nine is a big number, 771 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,799 Speaker 1: but it's actually small compared to the total number of 772 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 1: electrons and protons, which remember is like ten to the eighty, 773 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,839 Speaker 1: So it's possible that the universe has a slightly positive or. 774 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 2: Negative actually be infuriating. That would be so aggravating, And it. 775 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: Could actually be that they're like ten to the fifty 776 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: more protons than electrons in the universe, which would still 777 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: be a tiny fraction of the ten to the eighty 778 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: protons and electrons in the universe. So that's what we 779 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: can learn from the cosmic microwave background radiation. But we 780 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: can keep fast forwarding in time for the universe and 781 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: look for effects in other dynamics, other structure that was 782 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: formed in the universe. That's actually a little bit more precise. 783 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 2: Okay, I like this because I hate the idea that 784 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 2: we would just leave it at like it could be 785 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,000 Speaker 2: zero or maybe, you know, tend to the twenty ninth ish, 786 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 2: We don't know. 787 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: If you want definitive answers, cosmology is the wrong place 788 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: to look. So what happens next in the universe. The 789 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: protons and electrons have formed together to make hydrogen, then 790 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: that hydrogen fuses together very briefly like we're used to 791 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: thinking about fusion happening at the hearts of stars, which 792 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: formed hundreds of millions of years later. But for a 793 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: couple of minutes in the very early universe, things were 794 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: hot and dense enough that hydrogen could fuse together to 795 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: make heavier elements. It's like, briefly, the whole universe was 796 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: like the heart of a star, so that hydrogen made 797 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: some helium and very trace amounts of lithium. It didn't 798 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,000 Speaker 1: last long enough to make anything heavier than that, and 799 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 1: the rate at which that happens tells us a huge 800 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: amount about the nature of reality at that moment, Like 801 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,799 Speaker 1: we can measure the density of the protons at that 802 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: moment by the ratios of like how much helium was 803 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,439 Speaker 1: made and how much lithium was made, because fusing two 804 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: protons together is really hard. You got to really push 805 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: them together with a lot of force. But you need 806 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: a huge amount of density in high temperature because protons 807 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: don't like to get together. They're both positively charged, they 808 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: repel each other. So you can learn a lot about 809 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: the density. And this is really precise science called Big 810 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: Bang nucleosynthesis that tells us a lot about the nature 811 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: of the universe back then, just by measuring these ratios, 812 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,400 Speaker 1: the helium to hydrogen to lithium ratios, and it also 813 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: tells us about the positive and negative charges, because if 814 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: there was a bunch of extra protons flying around, that 815 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 1: would really change the rate of fusion, or if there 816 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: was a bunch of extra electrons flying around, because again 817 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: the electric force is really powerful and it would disrupt 818 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: or enhance the rate of the production of these heavier 819 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: elements in that moment. So by measuring these ratios, we 820 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,920 Speaker 1: can get a limit on the total electric charge of 821 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: the universe now to one part in ten to the 822 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: thirty two, So it's like a thousand times more powerful 823 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: than the limit we get from the Cossack microwave background radiation. 824 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 2: Okay, so intellectually I understand this is amazing and that 825 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 2: the science behind this is I mean, it's incredible right 826 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 2: to be able to do this kind of like deduction 827 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 2: and to do this calculation to this level of precision, 828 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 2: and that tend to the thirty two is a lot 829 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 2: more than tend to the twenty ninth because that is 830 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 2: the nature of exponential growth. And yet to my little 831 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,760 Speaker 2: monkey brain, I'm like, these numbers are essentially the same, 832 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 2: and I like it's just real small, but the uncertainty 833 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 2: is still there. It's just real small. 834 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: No, that's fair. I mean, on one hand, these are 835 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,719 Speaker 1: very very precise studies, really incredible. We can learn this 836 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,400 Speaker 1: much about the early universe from this trace information. And 837 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's nowhere near getting us close 838 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: to zero to understanding whether the universe is actually overall neutral. 839 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: But we can do even better. We can look in 840 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: the modern day universe to see if there are currents 841 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: flowing in the whole universe, like if the universe had 842 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: a bunch of positive charge here or a bunch of 843 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: negative charge there, if there was an imbalance in the 844 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,760 Speaker 1: protons and electrons, that would create huge electric fields throughout 845 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,400 Speaker 1: the whole universe, just the way like electrons and protons 846 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: can create electric fields in the atom or in materials 847 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: or between like your sock and the floor. If you 848 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: have an overall excess of electrons or protons somewhere, which 849 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: you'd have to have if there was an imbalance, then 850 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: you'd have electric fields. And we think we could see 851 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: that because those electric fields would steer cosmic rays. Cosmic 852 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 1: rays are just charged particles that hit the Earth like 853 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,879 Speaker 1: tiny little asteroids like protons or sometimes heavier elements hit 854 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: the Earth, and we can measure them in our atmosphere 855 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,319 Speaker 1: and using all sorts of cool time technology, and by 856 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: studying the patterns of those cosmic rays, we can use 857 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,919 Speaker 1: them as probes of these cosmic electric fields and try 858 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: to figure out whether there is an overall positive or 859 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,280 Speaker 1: negative charge to the universe. 860 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,319 Speaker 2: Okay, I mean that makes sense, right. You've got if 861 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 2: you have an imbalance that would cause this sort of 862 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,799 Speaker 2: like sloshing of fields, and then we would see that 863 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 2: from here in cosmic rays that we receive. 864 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've studied these cosmic rays. They're super interesting 865 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 1: for lots of other reasons, like what's even making them? 866 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: How do they get such high energy? The patterns of 867 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,840 Speaker 1: them in the sky are very strange. We've analyzed them carefully, 868 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,720 Speaker 1: and there's no evidence for an overall positive or negative 869 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: charge of the universe from cosmic rays. And we can 870 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 1: set a limit of one part in ten to the 871 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,359 Speaker 1: thirty nine. So this is jumping up like seven more 872 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,240 Speaker 1: orders of magnitude, improving this result by factor of ten million. 873 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: I hope that impresses you, Katie. 874 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 2: Look again, intellectually, this is incredible, nothing but respect for 875 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 2: these scientists, And I understand that it is significant that 876 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 2: we keep increasing the precision of this estimation, meaning that 877 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 2: it looks more and more like it could probably be 878 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 2: zero or neutral. And yet you know, again there's a 879 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 2: little uncertainty, and the part of my brain that is 880 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,799 Speaker 2: still a monkey does not like it. 881 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:26,760 Speaker 1: Well, you're right, we still don't actually know the answer, 882 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,919 Speaker 1: and that's about as good as we can do so far. 883 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,319 Speaker 1: We have other ways to look for electric fields, like 884 00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: to look at the gravitational structure of the universe. You know, 885 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: if galaxies were overall positive or overall negative, it would 886 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,359 Speaker 1: change the way they pull and tug on each other, 887 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,000 Speaker 1: the way they move in galaxy clusters. And that's a 888 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,239 Speaker 1: powerful way to look for excess charges, but it's not 889 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,359 Speaker 1: as powerful as the cosmic ray limits. So those are 890 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,840 Speaker 1: our best measurements so far about the overall neutrality of 891 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: the universe, about one part in ten to the thirty nine, 892 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: which is only like, you know, forty orders of magnitude 893 00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,880 Speaker 1: away from having a definitive answer to this question. 894 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 2: I feel like at a certain point it's going to 895 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 2: be less of a math problem and more of a 896 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 2: problem to solve in therapy or I learned just to 897 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 2: accept uncertainty. 898 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: Well, I think this is a really fascinating question because 899 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,720 Speaker 1: we have a very strong answer from the theoretical side. 900 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: There's a very strong bias that says the universe should 901 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,919 Speaker 1: be neutral when it was created, because again, no other 902 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: answer makes sense, and that's really just very philosophical. There's 903 00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,279 Speaker 1: no very strong theoretical argument there other than just like 904 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: a preference for zero is the most natural answer if 905 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: you have to pick one. But then the theory tells 906 00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 1: us that once you picked one for the early universe, 907 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: once you create a universe, its charge is fixed. That 908 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 1: will just never change. And that's really cool experimentally because 909 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,160 Speaker 1: it means we can measure the charge of the universe anytime. 910 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,400 Speaker 1: We can measure it today. We can look for evidence 911 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,240 Speaker 1: in the early universe, we can look for a thousand 912 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: years after the universe which created. We have lots and 913 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,919 Speaker 1: lots of opportunities to make these measurements. So far, these 914 00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,319 Speaker 1: measurements tell us that the universe is mostly neutral, down 915 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: to about one part heart intended the thirty nine, which 916 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: I think is pretty good. But Katie's unimpressed. Maybe one 917 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: day we'll come up with another technique that lets us 918 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,600 Speaker 1: push these measurements even further so we can get a 919 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,000 Speaker 1: deeper answer to this question. 920 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, And it's also a good lesson, like, 921 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,479 Speaker 2: think real hard before you create your own universe, because 922 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,839 Speaker 2: once you pick that charge, you can't change it later. 923 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,720 Speaker 1: That's you are literally stuck with it. There's no changing 924 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,520 Speaker 1: the electric charge of the universe. But that's also not 925 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,520 Speaker 1: something we understand. Right, we don't understand how the universe 926 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: was made or what its charge was in the beginning. 927 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,160 Speaker 1: We also still don't really understand why charge is conserved. 928 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,000 Speaker 1: This again, is just something we've observed. We've done a 929 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: zillion particle physics experiments looking for violation as rule and 930 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,879 Speaker 1: never seen one. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen occasionally, right, 931 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,080 Speaker 1: We have these theoretical reasons that suggest that photons exist 932 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: to preserve electric charge, but again we don't really understand 933 00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,400 Speaker 1: why that is, and so it's possible that sneakily the 934 00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,440 Speaker 1: universe is changing its little bits of charge here and 935 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: there very occasionally under our newses. 936 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 2: My therapist is going to be so confused when I 937 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,719 Speaker 2: talk to her about like and then Daniel said that 938 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 2: we can't know if the charge doesn't change. I don't 939 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 2: know what to believe anymore. Who do I trust? 940 00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: I think you should just sit with your dog cookie 941 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,840 Speaker 1: and have a nice cookie, and you have the therapy 942 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:17,319 Speaker 1: right there. 943 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 2: That is the best therapy, the buye cookie therapy. 944 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 1: All right, Well, thanks everyone for joining us on this 945 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: exploration of the nature of the universe, not just its size, 946 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: not just its structure, but it's overall charged and what 947 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 1: that tells us about the nature of reality and what's 948 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,800 Speaker 1: important to the universe For reasons we still don't understand. 949 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 1: The charge seems to be a fundamentally conserved quantity in 950 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,880 Speaker 1: the universe, but we still don't actually know what the 951 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,840 Speaker 1: total charge of the universe is. Thanks very much Kennie 952 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 1: for joining us today, and thanks everybody for listening. 953 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. 954 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: Tune in next time for more science and curiosity. Come 955 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: find us on social media where we answer questions and 956 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,800 Speaker 1: post videos. We're on Twitter, Discorg, Insta, and now TikTok. 957 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain 958 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,319 Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts 959 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:16,040 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 960 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.