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Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I heard radio it's the big take.

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Speaker 1: I'm West Kosova today. Why are the US and its

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Speaker 1: western allies seizing the super yachts of Russian billionaires? Tonight?

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Speaker 1: The UK seizing a nearly fifty million dollars super yacht

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Speaker 1: owned by a Russian businessman tied to Putin. Authorities in

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Speaker 1: Fiji seized a three hundred million dollar yacht owned by

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Speaker 1: Russian oligarch Suliman Caramel. Italian authorities seized five hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy eight million dollar mega yacht. It's the size of

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Speaker 1: two football fields and the word's largest super yot has

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Speaker 1: been stopped from sailing after Germany officially confiscated the asset

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Speaker 1: of Russian oligarch Alassmanov. The super yot was seized as

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Speaker 1: part of the trenches off sanctions against Russia by the West.

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Speaker 1: The one along has an estimated value of nearly six

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Speaker 1: hundred million US dollars. Since Russia invaded Ukraine in February,

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Speaker 1: the US and dozens of other Western governments have imposed

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Speaker 1: sanctions on Russians who they accused of supporting Russian President

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin or benefiting from ties to the Kremlin. They've

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Speaker 1: frozen their bank accounts, they have gone after their homes

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Speaker 1: and private jets, and most dramatically, they've seized the opulent

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Speaker 1: prize supriots of these billionaires. We have held the ship,

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Speaker 1: which we now know belongs to Russian oligogue because we're

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Speaker 1: very clear we cannot have any benefits of these oligogus

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Speaker 1: with close connections to put In whilst that terrible war

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Speaker 1: is going on in Ukraine and so many people will suffering.

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Speaker 1: More than fifteen Russian linked yachts have been impounded because

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Speaker 1: of sanctions, and most remain in legal purgatory. But now

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Speaker 1: comes to the question what do you do with a

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Speaker 1: confiscated yacht that's the size of a small cruise ship.

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Speaker 1: To answer that question, Stephanie Baker joins me from London.

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Speaker 1: She's a senior investigative reporter for Bloomberg. Stephanie, let me

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Speaker 1: start by asking you the US and other Western governments

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Speaker 1: are seizing these huge yachts that are allegedly owned by

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Speaker 1: Russian oligarchs who are under economic sanctions. So can you

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Speaker 1: tell us what exactly is a Russian oligarch and why

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Speaker 1: are they being sanctioned? Okay, well, the term Russian oligarch

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Speaker 1: originated actually in the nineteen nineties during the era of

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Speaker 1: President Boris Yeltsen, when a group of Russian tycoons backed

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Speaker 1: his bid for re election, financing his campaign. Now they

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Speaker 1: got stakes and state owned companies in exchange for loans

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Speaker 1: to the government which were never repaid, and they became

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Speaker 1: some of the richest men in Russia. And the term

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Speaker 1: grew from that that they had this undue influence over

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Speaker 1: the government as a result of this political backing of

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Speaker 1: the president. Now that is of course changed over the years.

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Speaker 1: When President Vladimir Putin came into power, he told the

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Speaker 1: oligarchs politics is over. I won't go after your businesses

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Speaker 1: if you stay out of politics. So the term is

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Speaker 1: somewhat troubled. I try to avoid it because it really,

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Speaker 1: you know, implies that these individuals have sway over the

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Speaker 1: Russian government. And now there are some that certainly do

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Speaker 1: um because they run state owned enterprises. There are other

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Speaker 1: very wealthy Russian businessmen who have been sanctioned who don't

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Speaker 1: have that kind of relationship with the government and don't

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Speaker 1: really have that kind of sway over Putin. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's arguable if any of these individuals have any sway

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Speaker 1: over Putin, then why are they being sanctioned in exactly

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Speaker 1: what is a sanction? When the U S sanctions a

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Speaker 1: Russian businessmen, we hear about this all the time these days.

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Speaker 1: What exactly is that, Well, when they're sanctioned, it usually

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Speaker 1: involves asset freezes, travel bands and barring them and their

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Speaker 1: companies from doing business in Western markets, so essentially makes

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Speaker 1: them financial pariots. Exactly. Now, the reason behind sanctioning them,

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Speaker 1: you know, President Biden said, we're going for your ill

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Speaker 1: gotten gains, and the moves by Western governments are designed

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Speaker 1: a as a signaling tool, a form of punishment in

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Speaker 1: response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But in many of

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Speaker 1: the designations by Western governments, they have pointed to the

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Speaker 1: fact that many of these individuals have benefited from their

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Speaker 1: relationship with the Russian state and that can take many forms.

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Speaker 1: That can be the way they made their money in

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Speaker 1: the early days to continuing relationships now. And the fact

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Speaker 1: of the ma matter is, if you're a Russian businessman today,

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Speaker 1: you are operating at the behest of Vladimir Putin. He

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Speaker 1: can take away your business. You have to stay on

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Speaker 1: the right side of the government or else, and that

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Speaker 1: is taken as an implicit form of support from the government.

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Speaker 1: So even if these executives don't have sway over Putin,

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Speaker 1: they certainly have to be in line with Putin, and

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Speaker 1: he has sway over them. The only way you can

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Speaker 1: rise to those heights is if you don't run a

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Speaker 1: file of Vladimir Putin and his plans exactly. And that's

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Speaker 1: why you've seen many of these Russian billionaires who I

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Speaker 1: think almost all of them are against the war, but

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Speaker 1: have not come out and said specifically that they are

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Speaker 1: critical of Putin's decision to invade because they know that

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Speaker 1: that could threaten their empires. Does many of express criticism

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Speaker 1: of the war, calling for peace and very general terms,

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Speaker 1: but if stopped short of directly criticizing Putin. Now you

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Speaker 1: mentioned these alleged ill gotten gains that the US and

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Speaker 1: other Western countries have gone after with sanctions, and among

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Speaker 1: them are these enormous yachts that many of these Russian

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Speaker 1: executives own. What is it about buying giant boats that

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Speaker 1: appeals to them. It's a really great question. I mean,

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Speaker 1: many people ask, why do you need a super yacht?

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Speaker 1: No one needs a super yacht, you might need a house,

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Speaker 1: and you could have a grand house. But I think

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Speaker 1: it became a status symbol, and it became another venue

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Speaker 1: for wealthy Russians to park their wealth in a zone

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Speaker 1: that is outside the reach of Putin, who was viewed

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Speaker 1: as potentially a threat to their assets if they fell

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Speaker 1: follow of the government, so they could go after their accounts.

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Speaker 1: About a physical thing like a yacht, it could be,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the ends of the earth and harder

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Speaker 1: to track down and take away exactly. And it's the

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Speaker 1: ultimate mobile asset, right And we've seen that since the

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Speaker 1: war started. Right after the invasion began, many Russian owned

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Speaker 1: super yachts began racing across the ocean in search of

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Speaker 1: safe waters in jurisdictions that were not enforcing sanctions. And

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Speaker 1: many of them got away, but some of them did not,

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Speaker 1: and some of them were seized. As long as we're

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Speaker 1: defining our terms here, what exactly is a super yacht?

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Speaker 1: How is it different from a yacht or a really

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Speaker 1: really big yacht? Right, So this is a really interesting

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Speaker 1: conversation I had with many in the industry. Some people

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Speaker 1: define a super yacht as above forty meters. Others say

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Speaker 1: it's above eighty meters, that's a sort of mega yacht

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Speaker 1: or a giga yacht. A giga yacht, is that an

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Speaker 1: actual term. It's a term, and I asked a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, and most people said, there's no precise definition

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Speaker 1: for that, but I think many in the industry view

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Speaker 1: anything over eighty ms as well of another class. So

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Speaker 1: eighty ms, by the way, for those of us in

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Speaker 1: the US, that's two hundred sixty two feet, so we're

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Speaker 1: talking just absolutely enormous, enormous, enormous, And in that category

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Speaker 1: eighty and above. Russians are the biggest single owners. They

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Speaker 1: own about There are about a hundred and fifty three

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Speaker 1: super yachts in existence over eighty ms, and Russians own

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Speaker 1: approximately thirty of them, according to the super Yacht Times. Stephanie,

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Speaker 1: if you could stay with me for just a little bit,

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Speaker 1: we will continue our conversation after the break. When Russia

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Speaker 1: in data Ukraine in February, there were quite a few

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Speaker 1: of these Russian executives, these billionaires who owned these yachts,

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Speaker 1: they were under sanctions, and those boats took to the

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Speaker 1: water and started going all over the place to avoid

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Speaker 1: being seized. Some of them did some of them, and

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Speaker 1: many of them ended up, for instance, off the coast

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Speaker 1: of Turkey, which has not enforced sanctions, so that you

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Speaker 1: know there are on last account, maybe at least you

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Speaker 1: know half a dozen if not more, sanctioned Russian super

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Speaker 1: yachts in Turkey that are hold up. They're safe, not

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Speaker 1: frozen by Western governments. Others attempted to leave ports in

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Speaker 1: Europe and were stopped because Western governments believed they were

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Speaker 1: owned by sanctioned Russians. Some wan. You have this very

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Speaker 1: dramatic moment in your story which shows the lengths to

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Speaker 1: which the US is going to try to track down

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Speaker 1: these ships and determine who owns them. That's right. In

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Speaker 1: the case of this one super yacht, Medeia, the US

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Speaker 1: stopped several crew members flying through l A airport, grilled

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Speaker 1: them for several hours, revoked their visa, cloned their cell

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Speaker 1: phone data for evidence, and sent them packing. And what

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Speaker 1: were they asking them? What did they want to know

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Speaker 1: from these pilots. They were asking them about who was

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Speaker 1: using the super yacht, about Suleiman Karimov, the man they

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Speaker 1: believe is the real owner of Medea. They were asking

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Speaker 1: them why they were using code names for passengers on

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Speaker 1: the super yacht. The code names were G one, G two,

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Speaker 1: G three for different passengers. According to my reporting, the

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Speaker 1: crew members responded that was fairly standard procedure on these

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Speaker 1: super yachts, that you wouldn't identify them by name. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess the standard procedure for super yochts. But you know,

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Speaker 1: for those of us who live in the super yacht world,

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Speaker 1: sounds kind of like you're trying and hide the identities

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Speaker 1: of people being on your boat. Absolutely, but it reflects

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Speaker 1: what a different world the super yacht industry is, and

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Speaker 1: you know how they operate. So the FBI went to

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Speaker 1: great lengths to try to track down evidence proving their

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Speaker 1: case that this was indeed owned by a sanction Russian

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Speaker 1: super yacht. So in your story you write that Western governments,

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Speaker 1: including the US, started going after these yachts to seize

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Speaker 1: them and take them away from these Russian billionaires. That's right.

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Speaker 1: So the US has been very aggressive. They have sent

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Speaker 1: FBI agents all around the world chasing down super yachts

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Speaker 1: they believed to be owned by sanctioned Russians. And the

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Speaker 1: most notable case is the super yacht called Amadeia, which

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Speaker 1: was frozen in Fiji when it landed there in April,

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Speaker 1: and the US sought to seize it and engaged in

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Speaker 1: a several weeks of legal wrangling in courts in Fiji

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Speaker 1: in order to get permission to actually seize it and

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Speaker 1: sail it to US waters. A Russian owned super yacht

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Speaker 1: has set sail from Fiji. Its departure from the country

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Speaker 1: marks the end of weeks of ongoing U s efforts

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Speaker 1: to seize the three hundred million dollar vessel. Fiji Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court cleared the US to take the Amadia, a nearly

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Speaker 1: three hundred fifty foot luxury ship, earlier today tell us

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Speaker 1: the story of this yacht. Who owns it well? The

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Speaker 1: US believes that the real owner is a sanctioned Russian

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Speaker 1: oligarch named Suleiman Karimov, who was actually sanctioned in eighteen

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Speaker 1: under the Trump administration when he sanctioned half a dozen

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Speaker 1: Russian billionaires for being behind Russia's malign influence operations in

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Speaker 1: the aftermath of Russia's meddling in the election, and they

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Speaker 1: pointed to evidence that he had installed a new spa bed,

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Speaker 1: a pizza oven, super fast jet skis that he had bought.

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Speaker 1: Now the owner has come forth as a very little

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Speaker 1: known oligarch named Edwardov, who on paper at least is

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Speaker 1: the beneficial owner of a nest of shell companies that

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Speaker 1: technically owns the super yacht. So this takes us back

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Speaker 1: to a really important thing in your story, which is

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Speaker 1: it's really really difficult to figure out who owns these things, um,

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Speaker 1: because I guess you just don't go to the super

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Speaker 1: yacht lot and pick out one and take it home.

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Speaker 1: Today is a really complicated thing to get your hands

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Speaker 1: on one of these things. Can you just talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about, like how do you go get a

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Speaker 1: super yacht? Well, generally speak king these yachts tend to

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Speaker 1: be owned by companies rather than individuals as a way

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Speaker 1: of limiting liability in the case of accidents. And that's

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Speaker 1: the case with not just Russians, but many other nationalities

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Speaker 1: who own these super yachts. But in the case of Russians,

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Speaker 1: they are owned by layers of shell companies that it's

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Speaker 1: often difficult to determine who the beneficial owner is. And

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Speaker 1: that's by design, by design, but you know, there is

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Speaker 1: a tendency, and I'm speaking generally here of Russians to

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Speaker 1: have unofficial agreements about holding assets for others. Now it

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Speaker 1: would appear that after Mr Karimov was sanctioned in ten

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Speaker 1: it would be very difficult for him to buy and

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Speaker 1: operate and maintain a super yacht. Now, the US maintains

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Speaker 1: that the beneficial owner on paper of Ahmadea is this

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Speaker 1: man Edward who Donatov, who at the time was not

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Speaker 1: sanctioned and therefore was a safer straw owner of that vessel,

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Speaker 1: holding it on behalf of Mr Karimov. And what does

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Speaker 1: Mr Karimov say about this? Mr Karimov does not respond

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Speaker 1: So he hasn't disputed probably that he owns or doesn't

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Speaker 1: own this yet he has not disputed the management company

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Speaker 1: that had managed it disputes that he owned it and

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Speaker 1: says actually the real owner is Mr Kutuonatov. And just

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Speaker 1: because Mr Karimov used the yacht is should not be

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Speaker 1: used as evidence that he actually owns it. Now, I

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Speaker 1: spoke to some forfeiture experts who you know compared the

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Speaker 1: process of establishing ownership of sanctioned Russian assets to that

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Speaker 1: of assets of drug lords that you know, jugglers don't

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Speaker 1: always hold assets in their name. They often hold their

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Speaker 1: house and their girlfriend's name, and that it's a similar

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Speaker 1: situation here that often assets are held in the names

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Speaker 1: of other individuals in order to protect a sanctioned individual from,

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Speaker 1: you know, having his assets freezed. So when the US

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Speaker 1: is going after these super yachts like this one, which

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Speaker 1: they found all the way in Fiji, do they have

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Speaker 1: a really difficult time figuring out who owns them in

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Speaker 1: each case? Well, they have done an exhaustive investigation and

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Speaker 1: they are still investigating to be able to prove to

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Speaker 1: a court that indeed the owner is sule Man Karimov,

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Speaker 1: a sanctioned Russian oligarch, and not this other individual, Edward

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Speaker 1: Kuda Natov, who is not sanctioned by the US. They

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Speaker 1: need to be able to prove that in a court

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Speaker 1: of law, and they need to be able to produce

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Speaker 1: sufficient evidence to convince a judge that their case is sound.

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Speaker 1: Now they haven't proceeded yet with civil forfeiture complaint, so

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Speaker 1: this process is likely to take years to litigate because

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Speaker 1: the amount of evidence they need to compile and the

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Speaker 1: process of forfeiture can take so many years. And how

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Speaker 1: many other yachts has the US gone after they have

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Speaker 1: issued a seizure warrant for another super yacht in Spain

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Speaker 1: called Tango, owned by a Russian billionaire named Victor of Exelberg,

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Speaker 1: who was also sanctioned in and they have boarded but

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Speaker 1: not issued to seizure. Weren't yet another vessel in Antigua

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Speaker 1: owned Bias sanctioned we believe Russian. Now the issue here

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Speaker 1: is that they do need to be able to prove

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Speaker 1: who the actual beneficial owner is and that means they're

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Speaker 1: going to be interviewing and they have interviewed crew members,

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Speaker 1: the captains aboard these vessels to determine who is actually

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Speaker 1: using the asset, and they've already sent out subpoenas to

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Speaker 1: several crew members. And what are the countries are going

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Speaker 1: after these yachts? Europe has many of these super yachts,

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Speaker 1: and Italy has frozen for mega yachts, probably more than

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Speaker 1: any other European country, including one super yacht that has

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Speaker 1: been linked to Vladimir Putin, jailed. Russian opposition leader Alexei

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Speaker 1: Navalny's Anti corruption foundation has published a video. Now, according

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Speaker 1: to the video, Vladimir Putting owns one of the world's

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Speaker 1: largest yachts. Now this, yeah, because it comes up in

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Speaker 1: stories quite a bit saying it's Putin's yacht. He disputes it.

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Speaker 1: There have been all kinds of investigations trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out does he own it or not? When you say

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Speaker 1: it's linked to Vladimir Putin, what does that actually need? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think in a lot of these cases there is

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Speaker 1: evidence that he used it. So the Russian opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Alexey Navalny his team did an investigation which found evidence

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Speaker 1: that many of the crew members of the super yacht

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Speaker 1: called Scheherazade actually worked for the same agency that is

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Speaker 1: responsible for Putin's personal security, and Navalny, of course was

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Speaker 1: the leader who was poisoned and then imprisoned. That's right,

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Speaker 1: But according to US affidavits, the us IS also believes

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Speaker 1: that those yachts are linked to Putin, and I think

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Speaker 1: it raises the broader issue of you have super yachts

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Speaker 1: and their ownership structures, which is owned by offshore companies

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Speaker 1: with which in turn have their beneficial owners, but then

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Speaker 1: there's who actually uses them. So I think in many cases,

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Speaker 1: establishing ownership is really all about figuring out, well, there

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Speaker 1: may be an owner on paper, but who is really

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Speaker 1: actually using it and controlling it and making decisions about

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Speaker 1: the vessel and its maintenance, and you know it's redesigned.

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Speaker 1: Seventy of these super yachts aren't just big, they're unbelievably expensive.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I mean many are incredibly expensive. There is

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Speaker 1: one super yacht called Crescent, which is estimated to be

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Speaker 1: worth million. There's another culture Harrizade, the one that is

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Speaker 1: linked to Putent, that is worth at least six d

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Speaker 1: and fifty million, if not more. These things are incredibly

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Speaker 1: expensive to build. It takes at minimum four years before

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Speaker 1: you put in a design plan, you hire an architect.

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Speaker 1: They are unbelievably expensive to build and maintain, and just

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Speaker 1: give an idea. You mentioned this one yacht came in

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Speaker 1: at six hundred million dollars, just to give you a

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Speaker 1: little basis of comparison for any of our listeners who

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Speaker 1: are thinking about maybe buying a super yet the medium

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Speaker 1: us in come right now. It's about dollars, which means

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Speaker 1: that if you're making that much money a year, and

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Speaker 1: you you know, maybe bring your lunch to work instead

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Speaker 1: of going out and don't stop by the cafe, would

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Speaker 1: bring coffee from home, and you save your pennies. It

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Speaker 1: would take about thirteen thousand, six hundred thirty six years

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Speaker 1: to earn enough to buy a super yacht worth six

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Speaker 1: million dollars. It's just an incredible amount of money. And

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Speaker 1: they kept getting bigger and bigger and more expensive as

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Speaker 1: the years went on, particularly during the tens. When we

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Speaker 1: come back from the break, continue my conversation with Stephanie Baker,

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Speaker 1: and Stephanie, I'm gonna ask you where are all these

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Speaker 1: confiscated yachts and who is paying to keep them afloat?

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Speaker 1: You had written that it takes an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: just to keep these things running every year, right under

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Speaker 1: normal conditions, The industry shorthand is that it will cost

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Speaker 1: between ten and of a yacht's value to maintain it

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Speaker 1: every year. Now, some people think that's an exaggeration. You know,

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Speaker 1: certainly when they're in stuck in a port like they

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Speaker 1: are when they're frozen, it's going to cost less. So

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Speaker 1: I did quite a bit of reporting to talk to

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Speaker 1: people in a position to know about how much it

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Speaker 1: really costs to keep these things in port, frozen and

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Speaker 1: immobilized imports. I calculated on an uber conservative estimate of

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Speaker 1: three of the yachts value. That includes you know, a

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Speaker 1: skeletal crew to maintain it, management companies to oversee the

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Speaker 1: running of it, and then you know, as time goes on,

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Speaker 1: there's going to be bigger expenses that come up. So

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Speaker 1: we're talking about millions of dollars a year to maintain

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Speaker 1: these ships while they're just sitting in port under you

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Speaker 1: know exactly, And who actually is footing in the bill

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Speaker 1: for that. Well, in the case of the US and Italy,

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Speaker 1: it is the taxpayer. So do you have an estimate

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Speaker 1: of how much you say, US taxpayers are on the

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Speaker 1: hook for maintaining that's while they're sitting in port. Well,

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Speaker 1: according to my reporting, Amadeia costs about ten million a

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Speaker 1: year to maintain. And that's just one ten million dollars

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Speaker 1: to sit in port. Yeah, that does not include any

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Speaker 1: sort of unusual expenses that might crop up. So we're

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Speaker 1: you know, we're talking unless this gets resolved fairly quickly,

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Speaker 1: you know, tens of millions of dollars every year. So

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Speaker 1: the question, I guess, is is it worth it? Um?

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Speaker 1: What is the benefit other than taking punitive measures against

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Speaker 1: people who the US believes active illegally or as you

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Speaker 1: put it, you know their their their wealth is from

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Speaker 1: ill gotten gains. What is the benefit of seizing beyond

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Speaker 1: that kind of satisfaction taking a big boat away from

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Speaker 1: a rich gap. Well. I spoke to a former Biden

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Speaker 1: official who was running a big part of the U

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Speaker 1: S sanctions campaign, and he said it was really about

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Speaker 1: showing to the Russian people that they have been ripped

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Speaker 1: off for years and disrupting the Russian elite. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that taking away these super

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Speaker 1: yachts that they have spent so much money and so

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Speaker 1: much time designing and building does hit a sore spot

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Speaker 1: with many of these billionaires. So it's sending a message

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Speaker 1: and a signaling mechanism that there will be consequences for

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Speaker 1: Russia's war in Ukraine. Uh, Stephen, you even talked about

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Speaker 1: how these governments have either detained or seized these big yachts,

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Speaker 1: and you said that the US's intention is to sell

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Speaker 1: them eventually to recoup all of these costs, once they're

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Speaker 1: able to prove the actual ownership of these vessels. But

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Speaker 1: were they going to sell them to? Who would buy

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Speaker 1: Russian oligarchs yet? Is there a market for that? It's

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Speaker 1: a really good question. I asked a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that who said, well, I certainly wouldn't want to buy

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Speaker 1: uh sanctioned Russian super yacht. Um, you know what would

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Speaker 1: happen if I happened to sail into Asian waters and

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Speaker 1: the Russian billionaire came up saying he wanted his yacht back.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to sleep. Now, having said that,

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Speaker 1: there is precedent for this. It's not like a super

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Speaker 1: yacht has never been seized or stolen before. If you

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Speaker 1: remember a few years ago, there was a super yacht

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Speaker 1: allegedly bought with stolen money from Malaysia's state Investment fund

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Speaker 1: one m dB that was seized on the orders of

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Speaker 1: the U S which was conducting an investigation, and it

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Speaker 1: was sold several months later as the proceeds of crime. Now,

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Speaker 1: in that case, it's sold for about half of what

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Speaker 1: it was thought to be worth. So that gives you

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Speaker 1: some indication of perhaps a discount that might be in

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Speaker 1: play if any of these seized Russian super yachts do

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Speaker 1: come up for sale. What do you think the future

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Speaker 1: of all this is? Where is this heading? When it

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Speaker 1: comes to these SATs that have been sees do you

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Speaker 1: think that they will identify the owners that they will

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Speaker 1: auction them off or is there some other end to

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Speaker 1: this story. I think in the case of the US,

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Speaker 1: they will probably be able to establish ownership and proceed

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Speaker 1: through forfeiture, but it could take years to complete. I

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Speaker 1: think in the case of the European countries that have

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Speaker 1: frozen these yachts, I don't think they have the legal

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Speaker 1: basis to go ahead with actually seizing and selling them.

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Speaker 1: So I think they're going to be kept in these ports,

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Speaker 1: and in some cases, like in Italy, taxpayers will be

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Speaker 1: on the hook for paying for the maintenance, and other

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Speaker 1: countries like Europe and France, port officials say the owners

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Speaker 1: are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep, but it's all

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Speaker 1: pretty murky ast who exactly is paying. I think it

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Speaker 1: will be very difficult in legal cases to prove that

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Speaker 1: they are owned by sanctioned Russian olive arcs. Stephanie Baker,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming on the show. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me. You can find Stephanie's story on Russian super

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Speaker 1: yots at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening to us

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Speaker 1: here at the Big Take, the Daily podcast from Bloomberg

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00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,439
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Speaker 1: newsletter at Bloomberg dot com. Slash Big Take, and we'd

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Speaker 1: comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising

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00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: producer of The Big Take is Vicky Burgalina. Our senior

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00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: producer is Katherine Fink. Our producers are Moe Barrow and

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Speaker 1: with another Big Take