WEBVTT - Talkin’ Politics: Mission not accomplished 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:04.520 Welcome to Talking Politics. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.960 I'm your host Sessi Cupp, and we have a stellar 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.799 guest for you today. That's a hint. Really excited to 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:13.320 have them on. We're old friends. That's all you get 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.440 to know for now. But before that, well, let's talk 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:22.040 about what happened Wednesday night of this week. Two historic 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:29.240 things happened almost simultaneously. First, four courageous astronauts successfully lifted 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:32.960 off from Launch Complex thirty nine B at Kennedy Space 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:37.120 Center aboard Artemis two, which will attempt the first lunar 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:38.440 fly by in more than. 0:00:38.320 --> 0:00:40.639 Fifty years now. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.919 I'm a space nerd, as many of you know, watching 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.320 launches like this is something I always look forward to, 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:50.279 and I've really been looking forward to this launch, which 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:52.760 has been years in the making. In fact, I'm in 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.440 my Artemis sweatshirt my NASA hat. These were sent to 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.800 me years ago as this program was being built. So 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:05.200 I've been waiting for this for a while now. And 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.200 the launch was was a stunning site. When that turned out, 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.959 more than three million people just to watch the official 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:18.440 NASA launch broadcast alone, Okay, and for me and I'm 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.440 sure a lot of Americans, it recalled up a nostalgia 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.440 for the days of Apollo, which you know, excited and 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:30.560 inspired so many Americans, and for just a moment it 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.039 stirred up, you know, a kind of patriotism and hope 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:40.640 that has felt hard to come by in recent months. Now, 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.640 in a parallel universe or on a different timeline, this 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.680 would have been the perfect moment for the President of 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.920 the United States, whose space program is responsible for this 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:57.040 incredible feed of innovation, to address the nation with a 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.960 soaring speech marking the moment right, we could have seen 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:03.760 the kind of speech that John F. Kennedy gave in 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.639 nineteen sixty two, inspiring an anxious nation to believe in 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.840 possibility and progress amidst a backdrop of Cold War fears. 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:16.840 But that is not I don't have to tell you 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:21.000 the universe or timeline we're living in. America is at war, 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:26.600 and we don't really know why. President Donald Trump finally 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.040 delivered his first national address more than a month into 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:38.040 this self proclaimed and unauthorized excursion into Iran, an incursion 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.400 in fact that's resulted in numerous US casualties. It strangled 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.040 the free flow of oil and goods. It's created turmoil 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:49.440 in the markets and world economies, and it's created a 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:52.600 fear among those of us in the US and among 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.840 our allies that our actions are going to have dangerous 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.680 ripple effects in the region and here at home for 0:02:59.720 --> 0:03:05.480 months and possibly even years. But a speech that was meant, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.639 I think to satisfy the concerns of a skeptical public, 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.600 you know, two thirds of which disapproves of Trump's war 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.200 and doesn't believe he has a clear plan. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:17.840 I think it did the opposite. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:23.200 In fact, I think it exposed just how poorly Trump 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:24.000 has thought this out. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:24.960 Take a listen. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.800 As we speak this evening, it's been just one month 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:35.840 since the United States military began Operation Epic Fury, targeting 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:40.920 the world's number one state sponsor of Terra Iran. In 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.280 these past four weeks, our armed forces have delivered swift, decisive, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.160 overwhelming victories on the battlefield, victories like few people have 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:56.920 ever seen before. Tonight, Iran's navy is gone, their air 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:04.160 forces in ruins, Their leaders, most of them terrorist regime 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:09.280 they led, are now dead, their command and control of 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:15.120 the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps being decimated as we speak. 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:20.400 Their ability to launch missiles and drones is dramatically curtailed, 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.720 and their weapons, factories and rocket launchers are being blown 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.920 to pieces, very few of them left. Never in the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.520 history of warfare has an enemy suffered such clear and devastating, 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:37.160 large scale losses in a matter of weeks. Our enemies 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:41.360 are losing in America, as it has been for five 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:45.200 years under my presidency, is winning, and now winning bigger 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:46.720 than ever before. 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:48.200 Well. 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.800 That certainly makes it sound like mission accomplished. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:53.880 Right, we won, doesn't it? 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:00.640 But despite as raw raw declarations of victory and decimation, 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:04.559 no one with even a cursory knowledge of Iran's history 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:09.560 and capabilities could believe that this reckless, aimless war of 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:15.760 attrition is anywhere close to being over. Offering no real 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.000 plans to recover the roughly one thousand pounds of highly 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:24.080 enriched uranium buried in the rubble at Natansen Ifshan, Offering 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.880 no real plans to liberate the people of Iran from 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:31.360 a regime that's thus far no different from the last one, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.160 Offering no real plans to reopen the Strait of Hormuz 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:35.359 and the world's free flow. 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:36.080 Of oil and goods. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.240 Trump blustered and boasted and bulked, all while wagging an 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.720 indignant finger at our allies for not jumping into this 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.920 ill advised quagmire with us. Yeah, how dare they? How 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:53.480 dare they not endeavor down this folly of a road. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.640 And here's what he told our allies to do. Speaking 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.760 of about the oil and the goods that they can't 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.880 access due to Iran's closure of the Strait of Hormuz, 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:06.720 to listen. 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:10.839 The countries of the world that do receive oil through 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.240 the Hormone Strait must take care of that passage. They 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.800 must cherish it. They must grab it and cherish it. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.599 They can do it easily. We will be helpful, but 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:24.280 they should take the lead in protecting the oil that 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:28.120 they so desperately depend on. So to those countries that 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.880 can't get fuel, many of which refuse to get involved 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.280 in the decapitation of Iran, we had to do it ourselves. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:38.800 I have a suggestion. Number one, buy oil from the 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.039 United States of America. We have plenty, we have so much. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.839 And number two, build up some delayed courage. Should have 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:47.880 done it before, should have done it with us, as 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.600 we asked. Go to the strait and just take it, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:57.560 protect it, use it for yourselves. Iran has been essentially decimated. 0:06:58.279 --> 0:06:59.520 The hard part is done. 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.080 Be easy, Yeah, to go go in, take it. Get 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.279 also get into a war. That is not how any 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:09.800 of this works. Of course, the hard part is not done. 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.600 Iran can keep the straight closed as long as it wants. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:22.520 Their military is not completely decimated, and closing the Strait 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.000 of Hermos impacts the price of oil. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.320 For everyone, including us. 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.920 It doesn't matter if we're getting our oil from Venezuela 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:30.680 or Alaska. 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.120 The prices are set globally, so. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.280 If the rest of the world can't get oil through 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.480 the Strait of Horror moves, everyone's oil prices go up. 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.720 Trump doesn't either get that or care. I don't know 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:48.160 which one, but those are facts. He just wants to 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.440 will it into existence that he's won this war. 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:55.080 He's not. He's not even close. I don't take any 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.040 pride in saying that. But I've covered war for a 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.640 really long time, and I've talked to people. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:03.200 Who are war analysts and who drew up the war 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.200 plans for a war with Iran. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.320 I'm listening to them. I wish he would, but I 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.000 am listening to them, and. 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.200 They are saying, we're nowhere near being done with this 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.440 because we don't just get to snap our fingers and 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:22.680 open the straight We don't get to snap our fingers and. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:23.480 Pull out of this war. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.680 There's another actor on the other side, and Iran has 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.120 has been preparing for this. Iran is ready for this. 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:37.200 Let me, in fact, tell you a little story about Iran. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.240 Back in nineteen eighty there was a war between Iran 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:46.240 and Iraq, the Iran Iraq War, and eight days in 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:52.119 Iraq offered to Iran a ceasefire. Iran rejected that ceasefire. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:09:00.760 Iraq would offer six more ceasefires. They were all rejected. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:10.400 That war lasted eight years. It took eight years to 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:16.640 decimate Iran's economy and military, to degrade their economy and 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:21.920 military to the point where it was ready to surrender. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.240 And only then because Iraq was threatening to do chemical 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:33.000 weapons attacks. Eight years it prolonged a war that Iraq 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.679 offered to stop after eight days. Let that be a 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:42.720 warning to Trump in the United States. You don't just 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:47.560 get to tell Iran we're done here. But in his 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.920 attempt to brag about how short this war has lasted, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:55.800 again it's not over. He compared it to other lengthy conflicts. 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.320 In this speech, he compared it to Vietnam. He compared 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.160 it to the Iraq War. Well, I got to be honest, 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:05.720 that only reminded Americans how costly and consuming this one 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:07.120 is likely to be. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:07.800 Take a listen. 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.280 It's very important that we keep this conflict in perspective. 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:19.320 American involvement in World War One lasted one year, seven 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.160 months and five days. World War two lasted for three years, 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:27.840 eight months and twenty five days. The Korean War lasted 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.120 for three years, one month and two days. The Vietnam 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.800 War lasted for nineteen years, five months and twenty nine days. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.280 Iraq went on for eight years, eight months and twenty 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:46.119 eight days. We are in this military operation, so powerful, 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.280 so brilliant, against one of the most powerful countries, for 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:51.760 thirty two days. 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:54.880 I don't think that had the effect he wanted that 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:59.000 to have with his dramatic thirty two day drop. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:00.120 Ye. 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:03.160 I don't think that did what he thought that was doing. 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.520 All that did was remind us there has not been 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:10.400 a war that's been short. There certainly hasn't been a 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.040 war with Iran that's been short. We don't tend to 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.400 do short wars for whatever reason. And war is really messy, 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.080 and the idea that this guy, that Donald Trump, who 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.160 knows nothing about war, this guy is going to be 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:27.600 the one to get us in and out real quick, 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:31.720 in and out, little excursion. Come on, no one believes 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:37.520 that it's important to note. I think that this speech 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:40.160 is also coming against the backdrop of Trump's threats to 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:44.000 withdraw from NATO. NATO is the post World War two 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.880 treaty that's kept Soviet and other tyrant states from attacking 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.800 the Western Alliance for more than seventy years now. Trump 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.920 might not understand its importance, but the world does, and 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.240 it's collectively rebuking his reckless efforts to weaken the body 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.320 that is crucial for in shuring our own national security 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:06.679 and stability and that of Europe. And it's so important 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:11.520 that even Mitch McConnell came out this week to sign 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:16.360 a letter with Democrats telling everyone how important it is 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.600 that America remain in NATO. And look, the good news 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.320 is Trump doesn't get to unilaterally decide to pull out 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:29.200 of NATO. Fun fact, that's because Marco Rubio, current Secretary 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.760 of State, co sponsored to bill in twenty twenty three 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.000 that made it illegal for a president a commander in 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.920 chief to pull out of NATO without congressional support. So 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.600 Trump can thank his own secretary of State for making 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.600 what he wants to do impossible. But that said, Trump 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:47.840 can still inflict a lot of pain, a lot of 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:52.319 pain on NATO, and make Vladimir Putin's life a lot 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:57.640 easier in the process. Listen, times feel fraud. There's no 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:02.400 question about it. We've got a correct to ignorant, self motivated, 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.760 wanna be dictator prosecuting an ill advised war, using American 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.240 blood and treasure to do it, all while threatening to 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:17.360 isolate our nation and endanger others even further. He's wreaking 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.719 economic havoc at home and across the globe, and it 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:25.360 feels like without any care or consideration. And like I said, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:30.360 he's just giving Russia everything it's been asking for. And 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.079 here's the thing I want I want to tell you, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.720 if we look at this mess the Trump's created, this 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.800 economic mess, this military mess, this mess on the global stage, 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.240 if we look at this mess that he's created too 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:52.640 closely or for too long, it feels impossible to have 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.600 hope for a better tomorrow. And that's why I think 0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.560 it's so important now more than ever, to look up 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:07.400 to look up towards the stars, where actual heroes are 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.280 leading the way. Right now as we speak, we are 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.800 all cheering you on Artemis too. Okay, don't go anywhere 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.200 more on all of this with a great guest when 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:33.520 we return. Welcome back to talking politics. I want to 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:35.000 get to our fantastic guest. 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:35.960 I told him. 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.360 Yesterday when I was booking him that he was the 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.840 perfect guest for this conversation, and I feel so lucky 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.920 and I'm proud of my booking skills that we got 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.480 him today. Douglas Brinkley is an historian and an author. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:53.120 He's a history professor at Rice University. Contributor to Vanity Fair. 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:57.720 He's written so many books about presidents and historical figures 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.160 and writers, the Nixon Tapes to the Reagan Diaries. But 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:06.920 most importantly for us today, he wrote American Moonshot JFK 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:08.720 and The Great Space Race. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.280 Welcome, Doug Brinkley, Thank. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.920 You so much for having me. I know we both 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.280 shared a deep admiration for NASA in the nineteen sixties 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.640 and seventies and carries over to Artemis today. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.840 We are both space nerds, and I think I've told 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.000 you this, Doug, but I don't know. Back in twenty nineteen, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.080 I was asked to moderate a panel of women's space 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.520 scientists at the JFK Library for the fiftieth anniversary of 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:33.320 the Moon landing. 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:36.000 What an incredible thrill? 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.920 I mean, well, no question for you. What an incredible 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.200 though must have blown your mind? 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:42.160 It blew my mind. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.640 And did you get to get to know them personally 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:46.120 any and. 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.200 Have any idea we became I became friendly with several 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:53.280 of these incredible women, all of whom have asteroids named 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.480 after them, which is great fun, and I subsequently had 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.600 them on some of my CNN shows. But I've been 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.960 excited for Artemis two for years. I'm wearing my Artemis 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:09.280 sweatshirt that they sent me several years ago. Set the 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.160 stage for how important this moment is in space exploration. 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.520 Oh, it's a gigantic moment. First of all, the fact 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.840 that you were dealing with the issue of women in space. 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.880 We're having our first woman astronaut. That was a big deal. 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.080 In the early nineteen sixties, we had a Mercury thirteen project, 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.360 thirteen women that were trained in New Mexico by a 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.240 doctor Lovelace, and they did all the tests that you 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.160 might see in the movie or The Right Stuff or 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.280 the book The Right Stuff by Tom Wolfe. I mean 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:49.200 all this arduous physical challenges, examinations, efforts to be a 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:54.480 female astronaut, and all of them got past and yet 0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:00.000 in fact most did better than the Mercury Gemini astronaut 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:03.680 that we chose. But alas it was decided there would 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:08.719 be no woman allowed. So unfortunately Russia beat us in 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:12.840 that regard having the first woman astronaut in space. So 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.720 I've been particularly glad in the twenty first century to 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:22.600 see space and exploration being wide open to women, and 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.000 women going into space engineering, and women that are from 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.640 a young age decided I could do it. I want 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.800 to be an astronaut, and lo and behold with Artemis, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.960 we're getting a chance to see that, and hopefully by 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.639 twenty twenty eight we will be able to put our 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.280 first woman astronaut on the Moon, which will be just 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.760 another milestone achievement in US space exploration in the twentieth 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:49.920 and twenty first centuries. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:51.879 It will be an incredible moment. 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.439 Do you think that this will have the impact on 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.200 future generations the way that Apollo Apollo did? 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.360 That is the key question. I was thinking of that 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:07.320 myself last evening, probably not in some regards. When we 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.600 only had three TV channels in the CBS, NBC, ABC, 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:17.560 this was mandatory watching. And people like broadcaster Walter Cronkite, 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.000 who had had during World War Two was the dean 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:25.600 of Army aviation and bombing, you know, so he got 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.120 to know all these flight bombers and then he went 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.359 His hometown was Houston, and he had developed his love 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.879 of space, so he was a maestro of turning the 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:41.280 space missions into television drama. But we saw the precipitous 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:47.040 drop after Apollo eleven, after Neil Armstrong and Buzz Alderman 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.360 walked on the Moon and the whole world was watching. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.879 After Paul eleven, all the other Apollo started getting less 0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.720 and less, you know, ratings to the point where you 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.600 know that we were trying to do things and asked 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.840 a grab attention, like let's golf on the moon and 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:07.879 people watch that. You know, But it's been a while 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:11.520 since our last astronaut's been on the moon, and Artemis 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.240 is doing things that paula program couldn't dream of with 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:21.080 its flight course right now in preparation for twenty twenty eight. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.880 So I'm hoping a crescendo will build and this could 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.720 become something that pulls our country together, like a NASA 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.040 in the Moonshot. But the singer Bob Dylan has a 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.719 line in one of his songs called you can always 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.800 go back, but you can't go back all the way, 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.960 and I interfer that always to mean something like this 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.840 was a high water mark, the Moonshot, going to the 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:49.239 Moon of achievement. I don't know of going back to 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.840 the Moon and any different guys will still carry quite 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.320 the same drama. But it will for me certainly, and 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.159 I hope it does for a whole new generation because 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.199 the young people in college love space. It's there. I 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.600 teach a class on the you know, nineteen sixties and seventies, 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.520 and nobody wants to hear about Woodstock or the Summer 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:10.800 of Love. They want to hear about you know, John 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.880 Glenn or Alan Shepard or Pace Race Yeah, Gus Greg, 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:15.320 Greg Grissom and the Space Race. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:16.280 Yeah. 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.359 Well, you know, I asked one of these NASA women, 0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.040 doctor Maria Zuber, at the time, like why go back 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.760 to the Moon, And she said, well, imagine someone coming 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:33.359 to America for the first time and deciding from whatever 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:37.359 spot they landed on, they knew everything about America, and 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.560 how crazy that would be because we know how diverse 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:40.480 in different America is. 0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:42.720 She said, the moon is the same, it looks all 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:43.879 the same to us. It is not. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.719 And one, you know, plane is different from one crater 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:51.920 from one other lunar field. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:54.000 And so she's putting it in that context. 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.560 It makes it almost insane that we haven't been back 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.880 much more often than we did in those years following 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:01.719 Apollo eleven. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.359 Well, I agree with that. I think some of this 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:09.480 the you know, the Challenger disaster. You know, the people 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.600 will come beyond cutting budgets. You know, NASA in the 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.879 nineteen sixties it was about four point four percent of 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.920 the annual budget went to NASA for the Moonshot pop 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.360 Project Apollo. Today you get about a third of one 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.480 percent of federal government, you know, of our money for 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.120 these kind of artemis programs because the private sector, as 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.240 you know, has come in in such a big time 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.560 way with you know, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.119 others in that space. But this is showing you NASA 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.240 is still still standing tall, the flags still flying. I mean, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.480 this is the the the work of a collaboration out 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.399 of the Space Coast UH and working in tandem with 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:56.160 Rice University or MI T Jeffer Polson. 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:57.439 Labatory, Yeah, JPL Y. 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.880 Blue Origin and you know, and other private entities. So 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.240 it's a collaborative effort here in a very real way. 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.359 And the fact that we not only have a woman astronaut, 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.560 but our first black American, you know, first person of color, 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.080 that's remarkable. Back in the nineteen sixties, the former CBS 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:24.280 guru Edward R. Murrow wrote very extensively trying to convince 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:27.280 John F. Kennedy, for the civil rights sake of it, 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:31.920 to have one of the astronauts be African American. And 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.359 of course that never materialized. So that's another And we 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.439 are a country that likes first and anything. You're going 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.600 to be hearing a lot in coming years about this 0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.080 is the first time this happened. This is the first 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:49.199 And I did once speak to President Trump after his 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.679 first term about speak going about space, and he loves it. 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:57.679 You know, he created Space Force, our lagos on that 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.760 on Florida coast, and if you're down there, people like 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.120 to watch, you know, lifts and you know, it's part 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.760 of the culture of Florida. The more he said to 0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.880 me about John F. Kennedy that the moonshot was important 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:15.760 because it was good for the morale of the American people. Sure, 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:18.679 you know that would and and you know, I feel 0:23:18.680 --> 0:23:21.719 like if this possibly can pull our country together and 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.600 say we we you know, we still got it. It's 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:29.159 not as overt as us first Soviet Union, who's first 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.000 to the moon in the nineteen sixties, but in a 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.119 in a lesser way, a more covert way. We know 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:38.959 we're trying to out beat China, you know, to the 0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:45.480 moon and show our predominance in space and particularly anything 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:50.560 related to the Moon as a possible colony or you know, 0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:54.720 military base or just a place that we conduct scientific research. 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.400 But we want to see an American flag on the Moon, 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:58.480 not a Chinese flag. 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:02.399 Well, I invited you on not only because of your 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:05.960 space enthusiasm, right, but because you are an historian and 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:11.280 a presidential historian. And last night's launch happened to get 0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:14.840 the backdrop of what feels, I think like to many 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:20.200 Americans like the polar opposite. No pun intended, this amazing 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:24.119 feat of innovation and patriotism and excitement and hope and 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:28.159 possibility against this ominous political moment that we're in with 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.800 a president who addressed a very anxious nation last night, 0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:37.440 I find it to be an incredible juxtaposition. And coming 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:41.159 from where you are both as a presidential historian and 0:24:41.359 --> 0:24:45.760 space enthusiast, I'm wondering if you could contextualize the artemist 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:48.760 to launch in the context of what is happening right 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.560 now politically and why maybe we need it so much. 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.600 Well, the artemis to launch should be what everybody's talking about. 0:24:55.760 --> 0:25:00.520 It should be the water cooler, a dialogue of a America. 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:05.040 But alas it's a very crammed and busy schedule. It's 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:08.520 the same time you had President Trump talking about the 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:12.119 war in Iran, which is very unpopular, sixty percent of 0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.240 the American public opposed. And there's not a lot of 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:17.240 clarity of what we're doing at this point. There are 0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:20.440 we sending in troops, are we just doing more more 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:23.800