WEBVTT - From the Archives: Steven Van Zandt

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the

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<v Speaker 1>Thing from iHeart Radio. Few performers cross over from one

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<v Speaker 1>artistic medium to another and achieve great success in both.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest Today, Stephen van Zandt, known as Little Stephen

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<v Speaker 1>to some, is one such performer. Singer, songwriter, and producer,

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<v Speaker 1>Van Zant first found fame as a member of the

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<v Speaker 1>Eastreet Band with Bruce Springsteen, but this prolific musician also

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<v Speaker 1>founded New Jersey's own Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes,

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<v Speaker 1>along with his solo project Little Stephen and the Disciples

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<v Speaker 1>of Soul. In a surprising second act, van Zandt starred

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<v Speaker 1>as the inimitable Silvio Dante in The Sopranos for nine

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<v Speaker 1>years with no prior acting experience. It was a role

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<v Speaker 1>that certainly made its mark on me. There was a

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<v Speaker 1>period of my life of four years where I was divorced,

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<v Speaker 1>I had my daughter. I needed stability in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>Sunday night, I watched sixty Minutes nine o'clock, I watched You.

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<v Speaker 1>At ten o'clock, I watched Big Love, and then I

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<v Speaker 1>went to bed. And any show you watch, it gets

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<v Speaker 1>in your skin and my friend and I we would

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<v Speaker 1>say this line all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>You gotta pick your bottles, you want your no show jobs, mitos,

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<v Speaker 2>gotta go. It's the right move tea.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the right move tea. We would walk around for

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<v Speaker 1>five fucking years and we'd be in a restaurant, my

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<v Speaker 1>friends and I go waiter. I'm gonna have the chicken,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't want to want the onions. I want

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<v Speaker 1>the onions on the side. I understand. I want the

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<v Speaker 1>fingerling potatoes and you can hold the spinach. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want the cream spinach. I just want the potatoes, onions

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<v Speaker 1>on the side and the chicken. All right, And my

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<v Speaker 1>friend look at me and go, it's the right move tea.

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<v Speaker 1>We said the phrase it's the right move tea a

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<v Speaker 1>thousand fucking times since I first heard you utter that

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<v Speaker 1>on the show. I am your great fan. I am

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<v Speaker 1>your great.

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<v Speaker 2>Fan well, and I have yours well.

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<v Speaker 1>The first thing I thought about when I thought about you,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was reading the stuff the research we did,

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<v Speaker 1>what was that idea? Because I want to cover music

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<v Speaker 1>and acting as well, and that is that for you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's live music. You're in front of an audience and

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<v Speaker 1>you're getting all that feedback from a live audience and you, guys,

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<v Speaker 1>I must say, got a pretty good feedback, got a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty good response. And then you're in a studio recording,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you're filming a television show and you bring

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<v Speaker 1>the language, and you bring the traditions, and you're bringing

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<v Speaker 1>the habits of the musician, the famous musician, and you

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<v Speaker 1>go into the TV show the set. Was that a

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<v Speaker 1>difficult transition for you? Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>At first, yeah, because you know, acting is a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of trust and I and you know, if the director

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<v Speaker 2>is happy, you got to be happy. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>a new kind of trust for me. We're used to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of directing ourselves in the music world. And I

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<v Speaker 2>said to myself, how does he know if that's as

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<v Speaker 2>good as I can do it? You know, And in

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<v Speaker 2>the music world, you know, you go in the studio,

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<v Speaker 2>you sing a song, and you come in the control

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<v Speaker 2>room and listen to it, and you say, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I could, maybe I could do it better. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me go, Let me go in and try it again. Acting.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you act, and then you see it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>eight months later, and it's like, geez, I probably could

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<v Speaker 2>have done that a little bit better if I had known,

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<v Speaker 2>So it just took it took a minute to just

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<v Speaker 2>to trust the process, you know, and trust the new medium,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a whole different trip.

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<v Speaker 1>You were born in Massachusetts, correct, correct and raised, and

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<v Speaker 1>you moved to Jersey as a kid, yeah, seven years

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<v Speaker 1>and you grew up in New Jersey. And these two

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<v Speaker 1>most notable. I mean, you obviously had other successes as

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<v Speaker 1>a solo artisan with other bands and ensembles and stuff

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<v Speaker 1>for the recording, but you know, you're identified as both

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<v Speaker 1>on television and on vinyl and CD as a son

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<v Speaker 1>of New Jersey when you got hired by Chase to

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<v Speaker 1>do the TV show. Did that have anything to do

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<v Speaker 1>with anything?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes? Actually, first of all, everybody passed on the show

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<v Speaker 2>because he insisted on filming a New Jersey and every

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<v Speaker 2>respectable network said, you know, we don't film in New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 1>Good luck.

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<v Speaker 2>Luckily he found this upstart, you know, new guy named

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<v Speaker 2>Hbo who had like a football show and a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of movies on at the time, and they had the

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<v Speaker 2>courage to go for it, and he was looking for

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<v Speaker 2>a Jersey centric kind of cast, you know, So I

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<v Speaker 2>think that was a factor.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, I always try to impress upon people. It's one

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<v Speaker 1>thing if you have great success in TV. It's another

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<v Speaker 1>thing if you change the fortunes of a network. HBO

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<v Speaker 1>was not HBO then that they were going to. They

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<v Speaker 1>went in one end of that experience, came out the

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<v Speaker 1>other end, and with sex and the city and the sopranos,

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<v Speaker 1>it was completely transformed, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean yeah, And I give them full credit for

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<v Speaker 2>having that courage, because as far as I know, that

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<v Speaker 2>was the first time I think that a network gave

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<v Speaker 2>complete freedom to the artist and just said, go do it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we trust you, go do it, and no notes.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, my brother's been in the writing for TV

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<v Speaker 2>his whole life and he wrote a book about it,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's all it's like you're getting notes all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, uh yeah, fix this, do that, do this,

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<v Speaker 2>do that. And then you of course you did your

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<v Speaker 2>terrific TV show and probably experienced some of that, but

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<v Speaker 2>this was like, hey, here it is, go do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's a blank slate. And David Chase had the vision

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<v Speaker 2>to pull it off, and Jimmy Gandelfini had the incredible

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<v Speaker 2>talent to pull it off. And I credit you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff Buchus and Chris Albrick and then those guys for

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<v Speaker 2>having the courage to do it because it was a

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<v Speaker 2>big expense at the time. I remember, this was a

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<v Speaker 2>huge investment for them. They were not really spending that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of money, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>I called Jimmy on the phone. I did street Car

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<v Speaker 1>on Broadway with him in nineteen ninety two. I did

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<v Speaker 1>this very kind of weird, tepid little thriller with dem

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<v Speaker 1>More called The Juror with Jimmy in nineteen ninety five,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jimmy the Show premiered win ninety nine. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 1>the showing, the show goes on and Jimmy becomes certainly

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<v Speaker 1>among the biggest TV stars of his time. And I

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<v Speaker 1>call him up and I go, Jimmy, I can't believe

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening to you. He's got you guys are getting

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<v Speaker 1>nominated and everything's going great. And I go, Jimmy, I

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<v Speaker 1>can't tell you how proud I am of you, how

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<v Speaker 1>envious I am of you. This is amazing. And he

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<v Speaker 1>literally says to me, he's a fucking pain in the ass.

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta get a van. Four o'clock in the morning.

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<v Speaker 1>I drive out through the Jersey four o'clock in the

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<v Speaker 1>fucking morning. I went through well fucking days of fucking

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<v Speaker 1>pain in my ass. I'm but, Jimmy, you just got nominated. Jimmy,

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<v Speaker 1>you're making a deal. You're making Yeah, yea, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I understand, But just judges fucking huge pain in my

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<v Speaker 1>fucking ass. And he did a lot of whining.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, oh, forget it. He quit the show every day.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to get to that for you. For you,

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<v Speaker 1>what was I mean? Music is obviously your first iteration

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<v Speaker 1>in American culture? What was music like for you as

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<v Speaker 1>a kid. Did you go up to a musical household?

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<v Speaker 2>No, not really, It was just the timing happened to

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<v Speaker 2>be that generation that was elevated February ninth, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixty four by this crazy variety show on Sunday Nights,

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<v Speaker 2>the guy who owned Sunday Nights before the Sopranos, this

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<v Speaker 2>crazy guy named Ed Sullivan, who you couldn't make him

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<v Speaker 2>up if you tried, something like I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>he was like Richard the Third on LSD or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, he'd have something for everybody in the

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<v Speaker 2>family to whole would gather around he one TV and

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<v Speaker 2>he'd have opera for the old folks, and he'd have

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<v Speaker 2>puppets for the kids, and he'd have something for the teenagers.

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<v Speaker 2>And February ninth, nineteen sixty four something for the teenagers

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<v Speaker 2>was a group called the Beatles, and that changed my life,

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<v Speaker 2>at least half changed my life. I always have to

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<v Speaker 2>give credit also to the Rolling Stones, because by the

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<v Speaker 2>time we discovered the Beatles, they were halfway through the career.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they were going since fifty seven, going in

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<v Speaker 2>sixty nine, really, and by sixty four they were extremely sophisticated.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean they were just superb. The harmony was perfect,

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<v Speaker 2>the hair, the clothes, everything was just perfect. So they

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<v Speaker 2>revealed this new world to us. But it didn't exactly

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you didn't exactly look at it and say, geez,

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<v Speaker 2>even though this gives me hope because I'm a freak

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't fit into society anywhere, can I look

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<v Speaker 2>he felt that way. It does give me hope. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but you didn't exactly say, geez, I think I can

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<v Speaker 2>do that. Luckily, four months later the Rolling Stones come.

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<v Speaker 2>They don't have any harmony at all, really, they don't,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the hairs are messed up, except for Brian Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>They are wearing whatever they feel like. They made it

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<v Speaker 2>look like, they made it look easier than it was.

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<v Speaker 2>They were the first punk band, really, And so the

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<v Speaker 2>way I like to put it is, the Beatles revealed

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<v Speaker 2>a new world to us, and the Rolling Stones invited

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<v Speaker 2>us in.

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<v Speaker 1>I love when Jagger does the induction of the Beatles

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<v Speaker 1>into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, when he says,

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<v Speaker 1>he talks about someplace they were performing back in the

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<v Speaker 1>old days, maybe in Liverpool, and he says, and there

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<v Speaker 1>they were in the audience, the foreheaded monster job old

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<v Speaker 1>Georgia Ringo. They never went anywhere without the others. And

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<v Speaker 1>they had these full length leather dusters, these leather coats

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<v Speaker 1>on and he said, and I said to myself, if

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<v Speaker 1>I've got to learn to write songs in order to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to afford I love that line. If I've

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<v Speaker 1>got to learn to write songs in order to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to afford a coat like that, and I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to learn to write music, I'm well, well, good for you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad the world benefited from that. But but for you,

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<v Speaker 1>the Beatles, and for for all of us, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a Beatles addict. My wife had the greatest line

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<v Speaker 1>that my wife said was to Paul, you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>guys really are the original boy band. You guys are

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<v Speaker 1>the first boy band when you think about it. And

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<v Speaker 1>McCartney says to my wife, he's so clever, he says,

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<v Speaker 1>to my way, he says, well, really, that's somewhat true.

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<v Speaker 1>But we had to play our instruments while we were

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<v Speaker 1>doing our wiggling, and they only had to sing and wiggle.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was a bit harder for us because we

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<v Speaker 1>had to play the guitar and the drums while we

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<v Speaker 1>were wiggling, and we were howling, laughing, you know. But

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<v Speaker 1>but for you when you when you are playing music

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<v Speaker 1>and you pick up one instrument first guitar, yeah, you're

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<v Speaker 1>how old.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, just before the Beatles came out, my grandfather was

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<v Speaker 2>showing me the Italian a little song from his village

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<v Speaker 2>in Calabria. I don't know if each town had a

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<v Speaker 2>little theme song or what, but he showed me this

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<v Speaker 2>song from his village. So I started to play just

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of months before they came so I got

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit of a head start.

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<v Speaker 1>To play guitar. Yeah, and when and when you're a

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<v Speaker 1>kid and you're playing the guitar. Are you dreaming of

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<v Speaker 1>playing music in a band? Are you dreaming of having

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<v Speaker 1>even an ounce of the Beatles success? Did you want

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<v Speaker 1>to go into music when you were very young?

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<v Speaker 2>No? No, no, it's strictly a Beatle thing. It was

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<v Speaker 2>strictly see keep in mind, and I know people find

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard to believe, but the Beatles introduced the concept

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<v Speaker 2>of bands to us. There were no bands. If you

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<v Speaker 2>went to your high school dance, it was an instrumental group.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, There wasn't There wasn't four or five guys

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<v Speaker 2>singing and playing. You didn't see it. It was soloists.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeahsby Elvis, all the pioneers really, you know, except for

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<v Speaker 2>the Cricket. Other than the crickets, you know, they were

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.120
<v Speaker 2>all solo acts. And by the way, I missed that

0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.080
<v Speaker 2>first decade of rock. I missed the pioneers. I had

0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.960
<v Speaker 2>to go back and discover them. But even if I

0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:17.600
<v Speaker 2>had been there, I wasn't interested in solo artists. They

0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.319
<v Speaker 2>didn't mean anything to me. I didn't want to be

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:21.480
<v Speaker 2>in show business. I didn't like show business at the time.

0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I like it now, but I didn't then, you know,

0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 2>you're building your identity and you are what you like,

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, and the concept of a band is what

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>appealed to me. That made the difference. You know, well

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 2>it's not me, me, me, you know, you're communicating the

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:43.319
<v Speaker 2>friendship and family and the gang, community, the gang, the posse,

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 2>all of that. That's what appealed to me. That lifestyle

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>of doing something in common with your friends. You know,

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.400
<v Speaker 2>there was something that really appealed to me that way.

0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:54.600
<v Speaker 1>And when do you put together a band? The first time?

0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Soon after I joined a band as a singer when

0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm fifteen, and then by the time I'm sixteen, I

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.560
<v Speaker 2>start my own band and I'm playing guitar and singing

0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.320
<v Speaker 2>and leading the band that's performing anywhere. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh.

0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.920
<v Speaker 2>We were just the luckiest generation man. I mean, there

0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 2>were places to play all over the place, all over

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 2>the place.

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:19.760
<v Speaker 1>You get that age, Oh that.

0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 2>Was the best time. This is the best time, man.

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>We are our demographic was the first one to really

0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>be catered to. So we not only had the high

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.319
<v Speaker 2>school dances and the beach clubs right there, we had

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:36.200
<v Speaker 2>teenage nightclubs built for us, which I haven't seen before

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.679
<v Speaker 2>or since. We played all the time. We were working

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 2>all the time.

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:43.079
<v Speaker 1>I see that moment you're on stage and you finish

0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:47.080
<v Speaker 1>some blistering song, you're singing some really really great rock song,

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:48.679
<v Speaker 1>and you guys are done with a set and you

0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 1>come up the stage and the guys like your ginger.

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Also, yeah exactly. But I mean, you know, this is

0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.600
<v Speaker 2>the thing. It was so new that al we would

0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.000
<v Speaker 2>never have that kind of freedom again, you know, because

0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 2>it's it's sort of three stages of the rock and

0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.079
<v Speaker 2>roll lifestyle, right, you know, there's the teenage one, which

0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, then there's the bar band world, and then

0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:16.320
<v Speaker 2>there's the professional stuff. You know you get into the business. Well,

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:21.080
<v Speaker 2>at that age, the teenage world, at that time, there

0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>was no adult that's going to even pretend to tell

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.640
<v Speaker 2>you what to do because they didn't get it at all.

0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 2>They had no idea, There was no templates, No, there

0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 2>was no even opinion, you know what I mean. It

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>wasn't like, oh, you got to you guys are going

0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.720
<v Speaker 2>to do this, which is which is what you got.

0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 2>When you got to the bar band stage, you had

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 2>to play the top forty you know, that was a rule.

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.080
<v Speaker 2>We we broke it with the Jukes. We changed new

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Jersey history with Southside Jihn and Hesbury Jukes, by not

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 2>playing the top forty, by by finding a club that

0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 2>was going to close because the roof had caved in

0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:55.880
<v Speaker 2>and h and we said, listen, we're not going to

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>charge you anything. We'll just take the door, you take

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 2>the bar, but we play whatever we want. And because

0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:02.680
<v Speaker 2>they were going to close, they allowed that to happen.

0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, we just got with fifty people,

0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>then one hundred and two hundred, and you know, it

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.600
<v Speaker 2>was the residency every Sunday night, and then they fixed

0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 2>the roof and then they expanded the place and we

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 2>ended up with three nights a week, a thousand people

0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.320
<v Speaker 2>a night. But that was a complete change in the

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.960
<v Speaker 2>New Jersey rules of a bar band. But as teenagers, man,

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>it was just like complete freedom. You did whatever you wanted.

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, what was the place that was collapsing the facility?

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:29.640
<v Speaker 2>What was it called Stone Pony?

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.200
<v Speaker 1>It was Stone Pony Stone, Yeah, it was Stone Pony

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.560
<v Speaker 1>was falling apart, yeap, still there. You guys put the

0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.040
<v Speaker 1>new roof on Stone Pony.

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, And there was you know, it was

0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:43.760
<v Speaker 2>it was a time when when you were making that

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:49.280
<v Speaker 2>transition to trying to be become more professional, but we

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to follow the professional rules, so we wanted

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to make up our own rules.

0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.040
<v Speaker 1>My first introduction to a variety of music when I

0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.280
<v Speaker 1>go to college, which is the real melting pot. You

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 1>really get your cultural chiropractic adjustment when you walk into

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 1>college with a bunch of people from different regions and

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>there's all these guys from South Jersey and Philly and

0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>they were all Asbury Jukes freaks. I'm listening to. I

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 1>didn't know who Boz Skaggs was, and I'm listening to,

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:21.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, bos Skaggs, Silk degrees, all this stuff, Dan Fogelberg.

0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.200
<v Speaker 1>I never had a whiff of all this. But these

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 1>guys were like the Southside Johnny, Asbury dukes freaks. These

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>were all South Jersey guys who just craved that music.

0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:32.880
<v Speaker 1>And you wind up doing that for how long? How

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:34.040
<v Speaker 1>long are you in that band?

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>And the initial run well something like seventy four seventy five,

0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:44.600
<v Speaker 2>probably not the most two years, but I stayed involved

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.520
<v Speaker 2>and produced the first three albums, so I was involved

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.760
<v Speaker 2>right through seventy eight, but by seventy end of seventy five,

0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I think Bruce decided he was hanging out with us

0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 2>because his first two records didn't do anything and he

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:02.440
<v Speaker 2>couldn't work, so he was not with us, and and

0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:04.680
<v Speaker 2>he was about to put out his third album, Born

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to Run, and decided, one last shot, he was going

0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.639
<v Speaker 2>to try fronting the band for a minute, just to

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.240
<v Speaker 2>see if that made any difference, because he just was

0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of, you know, on the edge of you know,

0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 2>big trouble at that point. So he said, come on

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.160
<v Speaker 2>out and play guitar. I'm gonna I'm gonna front the band.

0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>So I got seven gigs booked, so I decided, you know,

0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna do that, and I just wanted to get

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.040
<v Speaker 2>out of town, you know, because I was not only

0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>leading the band, but I was also managing the band,

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.439
<v Speaker 2>the Jukes anyway, So you know, I went out with Bruce,

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 2>and him fronting the band did make a big difference, actually,

0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.960
<v Speaker 2>and we started to break through, and I went for

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.600
<v Speaker 2>seven gigs and stayed seven years. But Jukes, I wasn't

0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.720
<v Speaker 2>actually in the band that long, maybe two years or so.

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.920
<v Speaker 1>But when you say managing the band and producing records,

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:01.320
<v Speaker 1>did you find it managing for you? Did you find

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.719
<v Speaker 1>any kind of managerial road. Was it tough for you? Yeah,

0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 1>I can't do naturally.

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 2>You didn't, well, it did come to me naturally, but

0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.919
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really like it. I don't enjoy business in general.

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't enjoy the whole negotiating process. So I tend

0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.760
<v Speaker 2>to be just up front about Look, this is what's

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.679
<v Speaker 2>needed here. If you don't want to do it, you know,

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.720
<v Speaker 2>I'll go elsewhere. I'm always willing to walk away. I

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 2>don't feel like I need anybody that badly, you know,

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 2>or any deal that badly. So that kind of gives

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.119
<v Speaker 2>you a bit of an edge right away. You know,

0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't need anybody or anything, you know, And I

0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:37.560
<v Speaker 2>communicate that.

0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Or at least you pretend you don't need them very effectively.

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 1>You're good at pretending you don't need it.

0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:44.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's yeah.

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 1>You and I may have that in common. I profess

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't need anyone or anything. You can all go fuck.

0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.200
<v Speaker 1>It's the Irish goodbye. It's the Irish goodbye. Go fuck

0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:55.480
<v Speaker 1>yourself and I'm out of here. We don't even say it,

0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 1>but we leave the party getting an uber It's the

0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:58.719
<v Speaker 1>Irish goodbye.

0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:06.439
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and it's not exactly a completely fraud, because if

0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:11.200
<v Speaker 2>you're a writer, you know, you tend to be pretty independent.

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:14.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, you can be. I mean, nobody's nobody's completely independent.

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Of course, we all.

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Need distribution of our work one way or the other.

0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 2>But you can be quite independent if you're a writer first.

0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm a writer producer first, you know. And

0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:27.960
<v Speaker 2>so when it comes to performing, that's just like a

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.680
<v Speaker 2>vacation for me. You know, whether it's acting or whether

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.439
<v Speaker 2>it's being a rock star and on stage, you know,

0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.359
<v Speaker 2>that stuff is just nothing but fun for me. The

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 2>real work is looking at a blank piece of paper

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:41.919
<v Speaker 2>and creating something from it.

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.200
<v Speaker 1>You know, where's the first time you met Springsteen? Where

0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:47.960
<v Speaker 1>were you in your first laid eyes on him?

0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.760
<v Speaker 2>The day before the Beatles played at Sullivan, there wasn't

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.800
<v Speaker 2>one band in America. The day after, everyone had a

0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.560
<v Speaker 2>band in their garage. I mean literally everyone. It was

0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the most. It was incredible cultural impact, and not just

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.320
<v Speaker 2>for the musicians, by the way. I mean after that,

0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:09.919
<v Speaker 2>when kids were going out at night, you went and

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.639
<v Speaker 2>saw a band. You know, if you didn't go to

0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>drive in, you know, to the movies, you went and

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.240
<v Speaker 2>saw a bawl. I mean that that was it, that

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.080
<v Speaker 2>was what you did with your free time. I mean,

0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.000
<v Speaker 2>so the Beatles created more than just a world, a

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.399
<v Speaker 2>new world for musicians. It was a it was a

0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>new social world for everybody, you know, and new culture.

0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 2>Really it really was. I mean that's no exaggeration. So

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 2>you met him where well, you know, like I said,

0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:37.680
<v Speaker 2>everybody had a band the next day, and mercifully most

0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of them stayed in the garage, but about a dozen

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:43.720
<v Speaker 2>of us got out there into a circuit, and he

0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:44.959
<v Speaker 2>was one of them, and I was one of them.

0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.120
<v Speaker 2>I had my band, the Source, and he had his band,

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.879
<v Speaker 2>the cast Heels, and we met each other on the circuit,

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 2>which was made up of all of those places I

0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.840
<v Speaker 2>said before, v W VFW halls and all of that,

0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and we'd have band battles, you know, every month or

0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.479
<v Speaker 2>so there'd be a band battle, you know. But I

0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:05.480
<v Speaker 2>on the weekends, I started going up to the village,

0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.639
<v Speaker 2>going to the Cafe Wah on Saturday afternoons, where there

0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.040
<v Speaker 2>was bands, one one after the other. And they were

0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 2>all about a year ahead of us in New Jersey.

0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.919
<v Speaker 2>Because in those days a lot happened very quickly, you know,

0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 2>the time was very different. The whole chronological time was

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.160
<v Speaker 2>a completely different animal than now. I mean, five years

0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.600
<v Speaker 2>goes by now and nothing happens. You know. Back then,

0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.880
<v Speaker 2>every three, four or five months, something major was happening,

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, so you go up and try and you know,

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.679
<v Speaker 2>keep up and get ahead of what was happening. And

0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 2>so I go up and steal ideas and bring them

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>back to my band in New Jersey, you know, which

0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:44.840
<v Speaker 2>is why we were one of the best. And I

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 2>started running into Bruce doing the same thing. You know,

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.919
<v Speaker 2>it was only an hour on the bus, but it

0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:54.639
<v Speaker 2>was kind of an adventurous for you know, for sixteen

0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 2>year old kid to do at the time. So I

0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>ran into him with the Cafe Wah, which is still

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:03.359
<v Speaker 2>there by the way, and we became closer. And because

0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.320
<v Speaker 2>of that, and then I started coming up with him.

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.399
<v Speaker 2>I go to his house in Freehold. He played me

0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.679
<v Speaker 2>some new songs, and I'd play him my favorite new records,

0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.879
<v Speaker 2>and then we'd get on the bus and go to

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 2>New York. So we became closer because of that.

0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:23.080
<v Speaker 1>And did musical collaboration was inevitable or did you talk

0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.399
<v Speaker 1>about it right away? Was it attractive to you or

0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 1>did that take some time? You know, do you think

0:22:28.400 --> 0:22:31.000
<v Speaker 1>he fit into your musical plans and vice versa. You

0:22:31.040 --> 0:22:33.040
<v Speaker 1>can meet somebody you love, but to sit there, I

0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:34.280
<v Speaker 1>don't see us working together.

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, you know, I regret that we

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.280
<v Speaker 2>didn't back then, But I was reminded of this by

0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>one of the other members of the group, which we

0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.679
<v Speaker 2>tracked down when I was writing the book, and he

0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.199
<v Speaker 2>reminded me that I did come to the band and

0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.199
<v Speaker 2>want Bruce because Bruce had having a little trouble with

0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.600
<v Speaker 2>his band. He wasn't even the lead singer in his band,

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 2>by the way, but he was having a little trouble,

0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:58.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, there was some bad vibes going on. So

0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:01.160
<v Speaker 2>I went to my band and wanted him to join,

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 2>wanted Brews to be in our band. But it was

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.240
<v Speaker 2>pointed out to me that Bruce's mother didn't drive, so

0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>because the mothers were the ones.

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Taking turns, I swear to his truth, his gold.

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:18.719
<v Speaker 2>Because the mother took turns driving us to the gigs,

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>and because his mother didn't drive, he really couldn't be

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:27.679
<v Speaker 2>in the band. So so we didn't actually collaborate.

0:23:33.480 --> 0:23:33.920
<v Speaker 1>We didn't.

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.480
<v Speaker 2>We wouldn't collaborate till a few years later. You know,

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:39.920
<v Speaker 2>when we started having a different group every three, four

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:43.679
<v Speaker 2>or five months. You know, we just started experimenting. Like

0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I said, we were learning our identities. And you'd go

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.040
<v Speaker 2>from one trend to the next. Every year there was

0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:53.240
<v Speaker 2>a different trend, you know, a bridge invasion to folk rock,

0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 2>to psychedelic rock, to country rock, the blues rock, you know,

0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.800
<v Speaker 2>to southern rock. You know, there was one one trend

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:01.760
<v Speaker 2>to the other, and you tend to go from one

0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 2>trend to the next as a as a learning like

0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.320
<v Speaker 2>you were going to school, you know, and you pick

0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:08.320
<v Speaker 2>up a little bit from this, a little bit from that,

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and you know, put it into your own identity as

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.600
<v Speaker 2>you built who you were going to be. And and

0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 2>then finally we we ended up, you know, he ended

0:24:19.880 --> 0:24:23.880
<v Speaker 2>up getting he got signed, and then I would join

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.280
<v Speaker 2>him on the third album for the tour.

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:29.159
<v Speaker 1>So you didn't record the album, you just joyed the album. No.

0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:31.480
<v Speaker 2>I visited those sessions just as a friend, you know,

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:38.680
<v Speaker 2>but then officially would join at that point. Yeah.

0:24:39.359 --> 0:24:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Actor and musician Stephen van zandt If you love in

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 1>depth discussions about iconic TV shows, listen to my conversation

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:51.840
<v Speaker 1>with the creator of The Wire, David Simon, A.

0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 3>Lot of people think The Wire came in the wake

0:24:53.640 --> 0:24:56.880
<v Speaker 3>of the Sopranos, but when we wrote the Wire scripts

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 3>for the first season, we hadn't seen the Sopranos. We

0:24:59.880 --> 0:25:01.679
<v Speaker 3>were writing in the absence of the Sprans. We were

0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 3>writing in the shadow of Oz. Oz was the first

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:06.840
<v Speaker 3>time that HBO had ventured into this. Hey, we'll put

0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:08.320
<v Speaker 3>it on TV, and you've never seen it before on

0:25:08.359 --> 0:25:11.679
<v Speaker 3>TV territory. So that was when I saw the pilot

0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:14.359
<v Speaker 3>of Oz. I went to Tom and said, you know,

0:25:14.400 --> 0:25:15.919
<v Speaker 3>you could do a show about a drug corner.

0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Here the rest of my conversation with David Simon at

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Stephen van

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Zandt tells us about the moment he walked away from

0:25:26.680 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 1>the music business. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:44.640
<v Speaker 1>to Here's the Thing. Stephen van Zant's path from musician

0:25:44.720 --> 0:25:48.560
<v Speaker 1>to actor was anything but straightforward. It began when he

0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 1>left the East Street Band after seven years.

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:58.040
<v Speaker 2>I actually left eighty two. I produced most of Born

0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:04.160
<v Speaker 2>in the USA. I then left recorded two solo albums,

0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:08.679
<v Speaker 2>and then they added three more songs to what I

0:26:08.720 --> 0:26:12.119
<v Speaker 2>had done and put out Born in the USA. The

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:15.520
<v Speaker 2>same year as my second album, Voice of America, So

0:26:16.160 --> 0:26:22.800
<v Speaker 2>technically eighty two. Nobody noticed until eighty four, and then

0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I was took a little eighteen year hiatus. Yeah. Well,

0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:30.240
<v Speaker 2>I did five solo albums in the eighties, all very political,

0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>and I decided that would be my identity because in

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:36.439
<v Speaker 2>the Renaissance period that I grew up in, everybody had

0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:39.160
<v Speaker 2>a very, very very specific identity.

0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:44.919
<v Speaker 1>Eighteen years. Are you in a band and performing solo

0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 1>acts for the entire eighteen years and then you go

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:48.520
<v Speaker 1>back to.

0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no No for the first seven years. I started

0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the Disciples of Soul, and I do my five solo

0:26:55.560 --> 0:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>albums in the eighties and eighty nine, I walk away

0:26:58.640 --> 0:27:04.080
<v Speaker 2>from music business completely and I basically go out into

0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the wilderness for seven years. I don't want to be

0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:10.119
<v Speaker 2>over dramatic about it, but I was. You know, nobody

0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted to sign me after Sun City success. It was

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 2>a little bit too successful, and people started getting nervous

0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:21.960
<v Speaker 2>about me. Uh Troublemaker, yeah, and a successful one you know,

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:25.879
<v Speaker 2>which was the worst punctive, yeah, effective one, which you know,

0:27:26.040 --> 0:27:30.360
<v Speaker 2>nobody thought that coming, including me. But so I kind

0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:33.320
<v Speaker 2>of just drifted for seven years until the David Chase

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:35.199
<v Speaker 2>called and said, do you want to be in my

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 2>new TV show?

0:27:36.640 --> 0:27:38.359
<v Speaker 1>When he contacted you to be in the show, you

0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:39.520
<v Speaker 1>weren't back with Bruce yet.

0:27:40.480 --> 0:27:44.960
<v Speaker 2>No you will, No, No, I'm looking for it, and

0:27:45.000 --> 0:27:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it's interesting.

0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:47.720
<v Speaker 1>And I don't say this. We were all kind of

0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:49.960
<v Speaker 1>some of my producers kind of I'm not going to

0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:52.840
<v Speaker 1>say they gasped, but their eyes widened when I said,

0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 1>isn't it interesting that you work with Springsteen, who I

0:27:55.960 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 1>have boundless admiration for. I mean, I certainly love his music.

0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:02.959
<v Speaker 1>But I said, isn't it interesting that you go on

0:28:03.000 --> 0:28:05.160
<v Speaker 1>your own and you went up on a TV show

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:07.720
<v Speaker 1>where on any given Sunday you have a bigger audience

0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.679
<v Speaker 1>in one night and he has the entire run of

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.520
<v Speaker 1>his Broadway show times ten. You go on to become

0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:18.240
<v Speaker 1>one of the stars of the most successful television shows

0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.200
<v Speaker 1>in history, and that's kind of it's kind of weird.

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:23.199
<v Speaker 1>Did you see that coming at all? Did you have

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 1>any idea that acting was because because you say, you

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:28.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of go off into the wilderness, you're on this hiatus,

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.199
<v Speaker 1>you're on this vision quest, and then you wind up

0:28:31.520 --> 0:28:34.440
<v Speaker 1>Chase calls you. Were you ready for that call? Were

0:28:34.480 --> 0:28:35.919
<v Speaker 1>you thinking I'll try that.

0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 2>No, I had no idea, no, and I and I

0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:44.600
<v Speaker 2>had no interest in being an actor ever. I liked obviously,

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 2>I liked the art form, and I saw myself maybe

0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>writing someday and maybe even directing or producing. But I never,

0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:56.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, never sort of fantasized about being an actor.

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 2>So it was it was a challenge, you know, when

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 2>he called, and it just so happened. This particular genre,

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, this particular mill you was something that was

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>an interest of mine, you know what I mean. It

0:29:10.320 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 2>was just one of I don't know what if they

0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.480
<v Speaker 2>call it a hobby or an interest. But I had

0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:16.959
<v Speaker 2>just read every Mob book, you know, and I had

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 2>seen every Mob movie, and uh. And I grew up

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:24.480
<v Speaker 2>around the guys or maybe wannabes, which is what's the difference.

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:27.800
<v Speaker 2>They're equally scary, you know. So I kind of just

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 2>I just kind of felt I could do this, you know,

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I kind of knew this kind of guy, and uh,

0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 2>and if I could, if I could create him from

0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:41.120
<v Speaker 2>the outside in, which is what I did. And I

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.280
<v Speaker 2>wrote a biograph I want to talk about that, yeah,

0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:45.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, but so, you know, I just I just

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:48.000
<v Speaker 2>it's just something I just felt I could do.

0:29:49.040 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 1>So you're famous for you wear a Bendanta, you have

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:58.280
<v Speaker 1>a bendada. You are a legendary bandana aficionado. Your startorial

0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:03.080
<v Speaker 1>legacy is highlight by Ben Dana wearing for many decades.

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>And yet you turn up on a TV show where

0:30:05.520 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>you have one of the richest heads of hair in

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:11.520
<v Speaker 1>human history. This character has a little hair like the

0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:13.480
<v Speaker 1>hood of a car, like the hood of a buick.

0:30:14.160 --> 0:30:16.200
<v Speaker 1>That's your hair or do they put a piece on you?

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, the wonderful thing that turns out of wearing the bandana,

0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:27.480
<v Speaker 2>you know as often as I did. When you do

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.360
<v Speaker 2>have hair, you know, you really look quite different. And

0:30:30.520 --> 0:30:34.320
<v Speaker 2>let me tell you something. That particular hairstyle I got

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 2>partially from you. One of your early movies you had

0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:43.600
<v Speaker 2>very close to that hairstyle, and I thought, I thought,

0:30:43.680 --> 0:30:46.600
<v Speaker 2>that's that's exactly what he should look like. So you

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:51.320
<v Speaker 2>probably I'm not. I'm not, I'm not. I forget which movie,

0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:53.600
<v Speaker 2>but you know what I mean. You remember your hair

0:30:53.680 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 2>was very similar to Silvio's at one point. I mean,

0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 2>it may have just been one movie I did.

0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:01.160
<v Speaker 1>I did. I had a famous hairdresser who is who

0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 1>I think he retired from the business. Name was Lewis Lacari.

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:07.080
<v Speaker 1>Lewis Lacari was a legend in New York and he

0:31:07.120 --> 0:31:09.240
<v Speaker 1>had a very unique voice. And I'm sure he won't

0:31:09.520 --> 0:31:11.720
<v Speaker 1>mind me making fun of him. And and I said

0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:13.520
<v Speaker 1>to him, I said, I want it, black man, I said,

0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:15.640
<v Speaker 1>dye my hair. I wanted to be so fucking black.

0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to be like the fucking Ink. And finally,

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Etercity one day he died in my hair. And he says, now, Alec,

0:31:22.320 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 1>He says, if I dye your hair any darker, it's

0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:27.720
<v Speaker 1>gonna be purple on camera. It's going to look like

0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 1>an egg plant. I said, I don't fucking care. I'm

0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:32.720
<v Speaker 1>going to make it look like an egg plant. And

0:31:32.760 --> 0:31:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I would put so much shit in my hair to

0:31:34.960 --> 0:31:37.520
<v Speaker 1>have that black, black Elvis hair, you know what I mean.

0:31:37.920 --> 0:31:40.160
<v Speaker 1>But so, is it your hair or they put a

0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:40.959
<v Speaker 1>hair piece on you? No?

0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:41.960
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, it's a piece.

0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>It's a piece in a piece that hair. Oh my god, unbelievable.

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so so, my my I wrote a biography and

0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 2>a guy and uh and he was, you know, well,

0:31:52.560 --> 0:31:55.080
<v Speaker 2>it came from a treatment that I had written about

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:57.960
<v Speaker 2>a guy who opened a Copla gobanda type of club,

0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:02.240
<v Speaker 2>but in present day, and you know, the five families

0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:04.840
<v Speaker 2>all had their tables, and the commissioner and you know,

0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:07.239
<v Speaker 2>the police and the mayor. It was kind of a

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:13.640
<v Speaker 2>gumba casa blanca kind of a you know, basically exactly,

0:32:13.680 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 2>and it was Silvio and that's where the character came from.

0:32:17.280 --> 0:32:19.880
<v Speaker 2>So you know, I had, I had a bit of

0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:23.280
<v Speaker 2>a backstory prepared because you know, I had, you know,

0:32:23.320 --> 0:32:25.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd watched my wife do it. You know, my wife's

0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:27.080
<v Speaker 2>a real actor. I mean she she's been going to

0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:30.240
<v Speaker 2>classes for years and had a theater company, and she

0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>would go to class and tell me about the classes,

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>and you know, some of the stuff I agreed with

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>some of the theory, some of some I didn't necessarily,

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 2>But in the end, I just had to come up

0:32:40.040 --> 0:32:43.120
<v Speaker 2>with my own acting theory, which I felt, you know,

0:32:43.320 --> 0:32:48.800
<v Speaker 2>every human characteristic exists in all of us, and the job,

0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>the craft is finding the appropriate characteristics for that particular

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:56.000
<v Speaker 2>character in that particular moment. And that's how I looked

0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 2>at it. And I felt if I could look at

0:32:57.320 --> 0:32:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the mirror and see the guy, then I could be

0:32:59.360 --> 0:33:03.480
<v Speaker 2>that guy. And today's day, I have nothing but respect

0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:07.320
<v Speaker 2>for actors such as yourself, who can act looking like themselves.

0:33:07.720 --> 0:33:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I just find that incredible, you know.

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:13.880
<v Speaker 1>And I'm always trying to access pieces where I can

0:33:13.920 --> 0:33:16.520
<v Speaker 1>put you know, as what you know. Olivier called it

0:33:16.560 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 1>the putty on the nose acting, you know. I mean,

0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:21.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm always trying to find roles I can play where

0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I can get as far away from myself as I can.

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:26.440
<v Speaker 1>But what's interesting is that in acting, when you have

0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the chance, there's acting that's very muted and you want

0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>to keep it as close to yourself as you can

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.600
<v Speaker 1>and do as little as possible, and you're probably going

0:33:34.640 --> 0:33:36.480
<v Speaker 1>to make an ass of yourself if you don't. And

0:33:36.520 --> 0:33:39.920
<v Speaker 1>then there's acting where it's tight. It's three four moves

0:33:39.920 --> 0:33:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and maybe two or three beats where you're at that

0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 1>character for you, the hair, the scowl, there's three or

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.080
<v Speaker 1>four things that you pick up on that become the

0:33:49.160 --> 0:33:51.959
<v Speaker 1>character in terms of his cut. Because all acting, to

0:33:52.000 --> 0:33:54.960
<v Speaker 1>me and old television and film projects are like music.

0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:57.800
<v Speaker 1>It's like classical music. You have your part to play.

0:33:58.000 --> 0:34:00.720
<v Speaker 1>You've got to fit in to this thing. Director the

0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:03.280
<v Speaker 1>writer has a vision for something he wants to do,

0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 1>and the worst thing you can do is step outside

0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 1>of what you're supposed to do. Like you're looking at

0:34:07.960 --> 0:34:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the director, this is my thing, and I'm going, what

0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:11.920
<v Speaker 1>do you want me to do? Am I here to

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:14.680
<v Speaker 1>play the triangle? Am I playing the tuba? What am

0:34:14.680 --> 0:34:17.160
<v Speaker 1>I playing? Am I the violin? Soloist? Or the piano?

0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And with you, you take these three four beats you

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.160
<v Speaker 1>put together and you're like fucking Edward g. Robinson. You

0:34:24.200 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 1>know, I mean, you're in that territory of a guy who's

0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:31.440
<v Speaker 1>created a character. And it's like that line, it's right, Moufti,

0:34:31.880 --> 0:34:35.120
<v Speaker 1>It's right, mouft You know, just expect. But he's a

0:34:35.160 --> 0:34:38.800
<v Speaker 1>wise You crafted the guy that was the wise mobster.

0:34:39.239 --> 0:34:42.640
<v Speaker 1>The other guys are emotional, tough, loud, crazy, and you're

0:34:42.680 --> 0:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>the one who he needs you. When you watch the Sopranos,

0:34:46.520 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 1>what you realize is of all those men, you're the

0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:51.520
<v Speaker 1>one he needed most. That's my opinion.

0:34:52.200 --> 0:34:55.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's it was a fascinating thing to analyze because

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, when you're doing these things, you're not necessarily

0:34:58.400 --> 0:35:00.799
<v Speaker 2>analyzing it. But when I when I go back to

0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:02.759
<v Speaker 2>write a book, you know, you really got to analyze it.

0:35:02.840 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>And first of all, all the things you just said

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 2>are true. And I had one additional challenge which I

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:13.520
<v Speaker 2>needed to in my mind. Since I was never going

0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:16.000
<v Speaker 2>to play music again, you know, I was done with that,

0:35:16.440 --> 0:35:18.719
<v Speaker 2>you know. So now i'mbarking on a brand new career,

0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:20.320
<v Speaker 2>which I thought would be the rest of my life.

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to make sure that I did everything a

0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.520
<v Speaker 2>little bit different. You know. I didn't want anybody saying,

0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.480
<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, I just saw him play in Cleveland

0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:35.480
<v Speaker 2>last week, you know. So in addition to all of

0:35:35.520 --> 0:35:37.520
<v Speaker 2>those other little things, you know, the hair and the

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.239
<v Speaker 2>scowl and the walk, I mean, I practiced laughing, I

0:35:41.360 --> 0:35:45.160
<v Speaker 2>practice smiling practice, you know, every single thing I could

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:48.319
<v Speaker 2>think of, I wanted to do different than I usually do.

0:35:48.600 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 2>So there was that, And what was I think most

0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:55.000
<v Speaker 2>interesting about the whole experience was well, first of all,

0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 2>David Chase hired me to be Tony. Okay, I don't

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 2>know if you know that. Yes, all right, So so

0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:03.439
<v Speaker 2>so HBO said, are you out of your fucking mind? Okay,

0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:05.399
<v Speaker 2>we're about to invest all this money. The guy never

0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 2>acted before, and he said, so, he says, well, so

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:12.760
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to do? I said, I said, well, David,

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 2>now that I think about it, because it's all been

0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:17.799
<v Speaker 2>such a spontaneous sort of rush. I said, I'm starting

0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:20.080
<v Speaker 2>to feel guilty about taking an actor's job here. I mean,

0:36:20.120 --> 0:36:21.879
<v Speaker 2>you know, these guys work their whole lives. I watched

0:36:21.880 --> 0:36:24.640
<v Speaker 2>my wife go through it, you know. And I said,

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:26.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, so I'm just going to go back to

0:36:26.760 --> 0:36:30.400
<v Speaker 2>where I belong, you know, which is unemployed. And he

0:36:30.440 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 2>said no, I'll tell you what. Then I'll write you

0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:35.279
<v Speaker 2>in a part that doesn't exist. You know. I want you.

0:36:35.400 --> 0:36:37.399
<v Speaker 2>I want you in this And that's when he said,

0:36:37.400 --> 0:36:38.440
<v Speaker 2>what do you want to do? I said, well, I

0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:40.440
<v Speaker 2>have this treatment, you know, I have this treatment of

0:36:40.440 --> 0:36:43.120
<v Speaker 2>the Silvio Dante guy who was an independent hitman, and

0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:47.000
<v Speaker 2>he has this club and you know. And David went away, Okay,

0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:48.520
<v Speaker 2>let me, let me run it by HBO. He says

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it's a good idea. Comes back says, now, I can't

0:36:51.640 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 2>afford it, so we're going to make it a strip

0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:57.080
<v Speaker 2>club and you know, and you'll run it for the family.

0:36:57.560 --> 0:36:59.680
<v Speaker 2>So what happens, I think is I don't know if

0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:02.680
<v Speaker 2>it's liminal or what, but I think that's why a

0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:06.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of second seasons are always better than the first season,

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:09.000
<v Speaker 2>because the writers start to they start to incorporate the

0:37:09.080 --> 0:37:12.680
<v Speaker 2>characteristics of the actors into the parts, right, you know

0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:14.600
<v Speaker 2>what I mean. And now, in this case, the most

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.359
<v Speaker 2>to me, the most interesting thing is I'm the only

0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 2>guy that's not in the pilot, I mean originally, so

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:22.759
<v Speaker 2>now he puts me into the pilot and puts me

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 2>into the into the show as a kind of unclear

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:29.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, Okay, you're going to run the strip club

0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:31.719
<v Speaker 2>for the family, and we're gonna have the meetings in

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the back room. You know, that's gonna be the clubhouse

0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 2>whatever you call it, the office. But that was it though,

0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:39.000
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean. There wasn't any kind of

0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:43.600
<v Speaker 2>really clear definition yet. Okay, Now here's what's interesting to me.

0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Here's mister David Chase, the most detailed oriented guy on Earth. Okay,

0:37:49.280 --> 0:37:54.720
<v Speaker 2>and he writes what twelve fifteen fascinating characters, terrific characters.

0:37:55.719 --> 0:38:00.920
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't write in the Undivorced. He doesn't write in

0:38:01.000 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 2>the Consolieri, which is sometimes two different people. Okay, sometimes

0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:06.480
<v Speaker 2>it's the same guy, sometimes it's two different people. He

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:10.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't write into the script either one. Now, this is

0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:14.120
<v Speaker 2>an extremely important part of any mob family, you know,

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.560
<v Speaker 2>on the Boss, you have a CONCLIERTI that's just you know,

0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:22.600
<v Speaker 2>there's no exception to that rule. He doesn't write them in. Okay,

0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:25.080
<v Speaker 2>So by the end of the first season, you know,

0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:29.439
<v Speaker 2>he did a second season. You know, my character gravitates

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:34.640
<v Speaker 2>into that role is about which was very similar to

0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:37.880
<v Speaker 2>the role I was playing with Bruce Springsteen in real life.

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:40.840
<v Speaker 2>You know. Interesting, It was fascinating to me. When you

0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:44.160
<v Speaker 2>really look back and analyze it, I'm like, Wow, how

0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.640
<v Speaker 2>could he not have written in and I'm the Boss?

0:38:46.680 --> 0:38:49.759
<v Speaker 1>You know all those shows. I did a couple of

0:38:49.920 --> 0:38:52.840
<v Speaker 1>arcs on Will and Grace, and I was madly in

0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:56.160
<v Speaker 1>love with Megan Malalley. I just worshiped Megan. She's so talented,

0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 1>and they bring me on to play this kooky character

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:00.719
<v Speaker 1>that's in love with Megan. And I went back and

0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:04.160
<v Speaker 1>watched online early episodes of the show, and you can see,

0:39:04.160 --> 0:39:07.399
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of shows and ones that become very

0:39:07.440 --> 0:39:10.400
<v Speaker 1>popular and very successful, they're all groping towards the character

0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:14.279
<v Speaker 1>in season one. Right by season two, season three, they're

0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.239
<v Speaker 1>doing characters which are unrecognizable from the first four or

0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:20.080
<v Speaker 1>five episode. They've migrated so far. So you go back

0:39:20.120 --> 0:39:22.880
<v Speaker 1>to Bruce you go back into the band. Correct.

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a tough decision because I just started,

0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:34.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, after eighteen years of unemployment. Basically, I finally

0:39:34.680 --> 0:39:37.680
<v Speaker 2>found a new job, which I was hoping to be,

0:39:38.280 --> 0:39:41.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, my first steady job of my life. That's

0:39:41.080 --> 0:39:44.080
<v Speaker 2>what unfortunately, I'm still looking for. So he decides to

0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.840
<v Speaker 2>put the band back together right after the first season's

0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:52.560
<v Speaker 2>filmed and just as it's being broadcast. So I said,

0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:55.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, I just felt I needed some closure. There's

0:39:55.760 --> 0:40:00.600
<v Speaker 2>I'll always wonder about this move, but I said, you know,

0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:04.439
<v Speaker 2>I left under some bizarre circumstances explained in the book,

0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:09.279
<v Speaker 2>but I really needed to have some closure there. And

0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:14.239
<v Speaker 2>so David Chase, being the amazing guy, he has scheduled

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:18.440
<v Speaker 2>my scenes for days off of the tour, and believe

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:19.080
<v Speaker 2>it or not, and.

0:40:19.160 --> 0:40:19.719
<v Speaker 1>He went back.

0:40:20.360 --> 0:40:23.800
<v Speaker 2>I went back and did seven seasons in ten years

0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.920
<v Speaker 2>of Sopranos, and another three seasons and four years of

0:40:26.960 --> 0:40:31.879
<v Speaker 2>Lillly Hammer Lily Hammer, fourteen years of steady acting and

0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:36.200
<v Speaker 2>touring simultaneously. And I missed one month of one tour

0:40:36.280 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 2>and one month of another tour. That's it.

0:40:40.800 --> 0:40:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Stephen van zandt subscribe to Here's the Thing on the

0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:49.759
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

0:40:50.080 --> 0:40:53.399
<v Speaker 1>While you're there, leave us a review. When we come back.

0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Stephen van Zandt tells us how we ended up playing

0:40:55.960 --> 0:41:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the role of another gangster on the mean streets of Norway.

0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:15.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.

0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Stephen van Zandt parlayed his incredible success on The Sopranos

0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:24.880
<v Speaker 1>into another show with a familiar concept but an unfamiliar setting.

0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:29.920
<v Speaker 2>I was producing a record for my record label in Norway.

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:33.239
<v Speaker 2>I signed a bunch of Norwegian bands and there's a

0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 2>couple in the lobby to see you go down and

0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 2>say hello, hello, you know Is and br Instead and

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:45.120
<v Speaker 2>I left Scottvin and they were writers in Norway and Oslo,

0:41:45.200 --> 0:41:48.319
<v Speaker 2>and they said, well, we wrote a TV show for you.

0:41:48.320 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 2>You know, now, as you know, this is not something

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>you hear every day. You know, you might hear it

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:55.160
<v Speaker 2>every day. I don't hear it every day, you know,

0:41:55.960 --> 0:41:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that's all you know. Your ego says, oh, hello, what

0:41:59.200 --> 0:42:01.719
<v Speaker 2>would that be? And of course the pitch was, you know,

0:42:02.280 --> 0:42:05.680
<v Speaker 2>a guy goes into his protection program and chooses Norway.

0:42:06.200 --> 0:42:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Sammy the Bull goes to Oslo.

0:42:08.160 --> 0:42:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I was like, oh man, I just played

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.359
<v Speaker 2>a gangster for ten years. I can't do that. You know.

0:42:13.960 --> 0:42:15.840
<v Speaker 2>I love the show. By the way, I just started,

0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I thank you in the end. I couldn't resist. I

0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:22.280
<v Speaker 2>was like, whoever heard of going to a foreign country

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.680
<v Speaker 2>and starring in a local show. I'd never heard of

0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:27.480
<v Speaker 2>that before, you know. So we took a year to

0:42:27.480 --> 0:42:30.120
<v Speaker 2>write it, which was very complicated. I didn't want it

0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:31.800
<v Speaker 2>to be a straight ahead comedy. I wanted to be

0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.959
<v Speaker 2>a drama edy. And I said to them, I said, listen,

0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 2>if I'm making my living playing a gangster, I can't

0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:39.000
<v Speaker 2>make fun of these guys. You understand. I canna live

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:42.440
<v Speaker 2>in New York, you know. So any humor has to

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:45.279
<v Speaker 2>come from circumstance. It has to come from character, you know.

0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:46.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't wan anybody trying to be funny, you know.

0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:49.440
<v Speaker 2>And we decided how much English to use because it

0:42:49.480 --> 0:42:51.880
<v Speaker 2>had to work for the Norwegian audience and the American audience,

0:42:51.960 --> 0:42:55.160
<v Speaker 2>you know. Very complicated and anyway, so we're six weeks

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:59.800
<v Speaker 2>into filming and I realized somebody, you know, the production people,

0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:05.080
<v Speaker 2>not the writers, but the production heads kind of fraudulent

0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.799
<v Speaker 2>about the budget because I, you know, all of a sudden,

0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:10.640
<v Speaker 2>I see my my makeup guy carrying a camera, and

0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:15.399
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm like, what, you know, what's going on here?

0:43:16.239 --> 0:43:20.879
<v Speaker 2>And it turns out I'm telling you it's like that.

0:43:20.880 --> 0:43:23.839
<v Speaker 2>They're very you know, do it yourself over there. And

0:43:23.920 --> 0:43:26.680
<v Speaker 2>I realized, oh my god, we can't afford to shoot

0:43:26.719 --> 0:43:28.600
<v Speaker 2>the show that we wrote, and I mean we spent

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a year writing it. So I told my agent. I said,

0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the one guy I know, Chris Albrick. But we just

0:43:34.080 --> 0:43:38.319
<v Speaker 2>left HBO to go to Stars. I said, book. I said,

0:43:38.360 --> 0:43:39.560
<v Speaker 2>I gotta make a deal. I got to make an

0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:41.560
<v Speaker 2>American deal. Here. We can't afford to shoot the show.

0:43:42.520 --> 0:43:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I go to Chris. I had the guys create a trailer,

0:43:45.960 --> 0:43:48.400
<v Speaker 2>which wasn't easy. We'd only been filming six weeks. So

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:50.840
<v Speaker 2>we put together a trailer miraculously, and I showed it

0:43:50.840 --> 0:43:53.120
<v Speaker 2>to Chris Aubrick that he loved it. He says, I

0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:56.600
<v Speaker 2>want it. It's great, I said. He said, what do

0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:58.759
<v Speaker 2>you need? I said, well, you know, the budget's over there.

0:43:58.800 --> 0:44:01.759
<v Speaker 2>I said, the mere reality show budget. It's like eight

0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:04.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred and fifty thousand dollars. When I'm competing with you know,

0:44:04.600 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 2>four million dollars.

0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you know that. I was on the Sopranos, right.

0:44:07.680 --> 0:44:09.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and I said, I said, I need at

0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:12.399
<v Speaker 2>least a million dollars a show. You know. He says,

0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:14.399
<v Speaker 2>I don't have it in a budget this year. I said.

0:44:14.400 --> 0:44:16.400
<v Speaker 2>He said, I'll give you two million next year. You know.

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.479
<v Speaker 2>I said, this is going to be great, I said, Chris,

0:44:19.520 --> 0:44:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't wait. I started filming. The thing is, you know,

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:23.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the middle of filming this fucking thing.

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 1>It's weird.

0:44:24.840 --> 0:44:28.040
<v Speaker 2>So I said, okay, well, well, I said, let me

0:44:28.040 --> 0:44:29.840
<v Speaker 2>see what I can do. And I leave there and

0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:33.600
<v Speaker 2>I said to my agent, what's that across the street?

0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:38.400
<v Speaker 2>This new thing called Netflix? All right? I look it

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:43.160
<v Speaker 2>up and I see, uh Ted Sorrando's name, and I call,

0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, I said, I can I talk to Ted

0:44:47.200 --> 0:44:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Torrandos please. He gets right on the phone. I said, Ted,

0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Stevie van Zane, hear you're looking for content? Is this true?

0:44:55.200 --> 0:44:58.319
<v Speaker 2>He says, yeah, we're just starting. You got something? I said, yeah,

0:44:58.320 --> 0:45:00.880
<v Speaker 2>I got something. He says, come on in. There's two

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:06.680
<v Speaker 2>people at Netflix at that time too, so materials. He

0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:10.280
<v Speaker 2>loves it and the greatest business deal of my life.

0:45:10.800 --> 0:45:13.839
<v Speaker 2>In one hour, I walked away with a two year deal,

0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:16.600
<v Speaker 2>which I'd never heard of, and I think it is

0:45:16.640 --> 0:45:18.640
<v Speaker 2>to this day. It may be the only two year deal.

0:45:19.480 --> 0:45:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Almost impossible.

0:45:20.320 --> 0:45:23.080
<v Speaker 2>Now, Yeah, even successful shows, right, they only go one year,

0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, because you know, God forbid, they take a chance. Well,

0:45:26.640 --> 0:45:29.520
<v Speaker 2>this guy had balls, man, and I will respect this

0:45:29.600 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 2>guy forever. I'm so glad the success he's had. But

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:36.040
<v Speaker 2>we turned out to read the first show on Netflix fantastic.

0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:39.239
<v Speaker 2>So I watched History Happen twice. You know, HBO with

0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 2>their extraordinary creativity becoming the go to a place for

0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:50.200
<v Speaker 2>adult content and then Netflix turning it into an international concept.

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:52.279
<v Speaker 1>You're developing any other TV now or no?

0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:55.920
<v Speaker 2>I got five scripts? Yeah, I'm looking at and I

0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:59.120
<v Speaker 2>want to I want to do something because you know,

0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:01.200
<v Speaker 2>we had another tour. We were going to tour us

0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:04.439
<v Speaker 2>here and then once again we're not. So I've got

0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:05.920
<v Speaker 2>to go. I want to get back on TV. I

0:46:05.960 --> 0:46:06.279
<v Speaker 2>really do.

0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for taking the time. And I

0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:13.080
<v Speaker 1>want to say, you know, you tell your story and

0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:16.520
<v Speaker 1>you talk about your nature that you doubt things, your purity,

0:46:16.760 --> 0:46:20.400
<v Speaker 1>your honesty, your integrity, whatever, But all these things that

0:46:20.440 --> 0:46:24.040
<v Speaker 1>guided you through your music career and then on into

0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 1>your acting career. They were responsible for your success, you know,

0:46:28.239 --> 0:46:31.319
<v Speaker 1>to Thine own self be true, you clinging to your

0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.279
<v Speaker 1>beliefs made you who you are. When I think about

0:46:34.320 --> 0:46:36.560
<v Speaker 1>your career, made you who you are as a musician

0:46:37.440 --> 0:46:39.200
<v Speaker 1>and led to the amount of success you had as

0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:41.759
<v Speaker 1>a musician and as an actor. You know, you said

0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.239
<v Speaker 1>you were like, I'm going to play this part the

0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:46.959
<v Speaker 1>only way that I feel comfortable with and the rest

0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:49.719
<v Speaker 1>is history. So you in the to Thine own self

0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:53.479
<v Speaker 1>Be True department, It's really paid off for you, big time,

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:54.359
<v Speaker 1>big time.

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:56.399
<v Speaker 2>So thank you. I don't know if you have any

0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:58.520
<v Speaker 2>choice in these matters to tell your truth. You know,

0:46:58.880 --> 0:47:01.200
<v Speaker 2>we all like to pretend in charge, you know, and

0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:05.240
<v Speaker 2>making all of these decisions. But I sometimes wonder about

0:47:05.280 --> 0:47:05.759
<v Speaker 2>that it was.

0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:07.680
<v Speaker 1>The right move. T. I get to say that to

0:47:07.719 --> 0:47:10.280
<v Speaker 1>you now. It was the right move to your career choices,

0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>It was the right move. T.

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:14.759
<v Speaker 2>Thanks man. Good talking to you, my.

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<v Speaker 1>Friend Stephen van ZANDT. This is I Don't Want to

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<v Speaker 1>Go Home. From the album Soul Fire Live by Little

0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:29.399
<v Speaker 1>Stephen and the Disciples of Soul by Malec Baldwin. Here's

0:47:29.440 --> 0:48:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the thing that's brought to you by iHeart Radios.

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<v Speaker 3>For you.

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<v Speaker 1>Not long, because I've only had tried.

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<v Speaker 2>To recoping tousing star

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<v Speaker 1>Whatever