Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the
Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. Few performers cross over from one
Speaker 1: artistic medium to another and achieve great success in both.
Speaker 1: My guest Today, Stephen van Zandt, known as Little Stephen
Speaker 1: to some, is one such performer. Singer, songwriter, and producer,
Speaker 1: Van Zant first found fame as a member of the
Speaker 1: Eastreet Band with Bruce Springsteen, but this prolific musician also
Speaker 1: founded New Jersey's own Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes,
Speaker 1: along with his solo project Little Stephen and the Disciples
Speaker 1: of Soul. In a surprising second act, van Zandt starred
Speaker 1: as the inimitable Silvio Dante in The Sopranos for nine
Speaker 1: years with no prior acting experience. It was a role
Speaker 1: that certainly made its mark on me. There was a
Speaker 1: period of my life of four years where I was divorced,
Speaker 1: I had my daughter. I needed stability in my life.
Speaker 1: Sunday night, I watched sixty Minutes nine o'clock, I watched You.
Speaker 1: At ten o'clock, I watched Big Love, and then I
Speaker 1: went to bed. And any show you watch, it gets
Speaker 1: in your skin and my friend and I we would
Speaker 1: say this line all the time.
Speaker 2: You gotta pick your bottles, you want your no show jobs, mitos,
Speaker 2: gotta go. It's the right move tea.
Speaker 1: It's the right move tea. We would walk around for
Speaker 1: five fucking years and we'd be in a restaurant, my
Speaker 1: friends and I go waiter. I'm gonna have the chicken,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to want the onions. I want
Speaker 1: the onions on the side. I understand. I want the
Speaker 1: fingerling potatoes and you can hold the spinach. I don't
Speaker 1: want the cream spinach. I just want the potatoes, onions
Speaker 1: on the side and the chicken. All right, And my
Speaker 1: friend look at me and go, it's the right move tea.
Speaker 1: We said the phrase it's the right move tea a
Speaker 1: thousand fucking times since I first heard you utter that
Speaker 1: on the show. I am your great fan. I am
Speaker 1: your great.
Speaker 2: Fan well, and I have yours well.
Speaker 1: The first thing I thought about when I thought about you,
Speaker 1: when I was reading the stuff the research we did,
Speaker 1: what was that idea? Because I want to cover music
Speaker 1: and acting as well, and that is that for you.
Speaker 1: It's live music. You're in front of an audience and
Speaker 1: you're getting all that feedback from a live audience and you, guys,
Speaker 1: I must say, got a pretty good feedback, got a
Speaker 1: pretty good response. And then you're in a studio recording,
Speaker 1: and then you're filming a television show and you bring
Speaker 1: the language, and you bring the traditions, and you're bringing
Speaker 1: the habits of the musician, the famous musician, and you
Speaker 1: go into the TV show the set. Was that a
Speaker 1: difficult transition for you? Yeah?
Speaker 2: At first, yeah, because you know, acting is a lot
Speaker 2: of trust and I and you know, if the director
Speaker 2: is happy, you got to be happy. And that was
Speaker 2: a new kind of trust for me. We're used to
Speaker 2: kind of directing ourselves in the music world. And I
Speaker 2: said to myself, how does he know if that's as
Speaker 2: good as I can do it? You know, And in
Speaker 2: the music world, you know, you go in the studio,
Speaker 2: you sing a song, and you come in the control
Speaker 2: room and listen to it, and you say, well, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe I could, maybe I could do it better. Let
Speaker 2: me go, Let me go in and try it again. Acting.
Speaker 2: You know, you act, and then you see it, you know,
Speaker 2: eight months later, and it's like, geez, I probably could
Speaker 2: have done that a little bit better if I had known,
Speaker 2: So it just took it took a minute to just
Speaker 2: to trust the process, you know, and trust the new medium,
Speaker 2: and it's a whole different trip.
Speaker 1: You were born in Massachusetts, correct, correct and raised, and
Speaker 1: you moved to Jersey as a kid, yeah, seven years
Speaker 1: and you grew up in New Jersey. And these two
Speaker 1: most notable. I mean, you obviously had other successes as
Speaker 1: a solo artisan with other bands and ensembles and stuff
Speaker 1: for the recording, but you know, you're identified as both
Speaker 1: on television and on vinyl and CD as a son
Speaker 1: of New Jersey when you got hired by Chase to
Speaker 1: do the TV show. Did that have anything to do
Speaker 1: with anything?
Speaker 2: Yes? Actually, first of all, everybody passed on the show
Speaker 2: because he insisted on filming a New Jersey and every
Speaker 2: respectable network said, you know, we don't film in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Good luck.
Speaker 2: Luckily he found this upstart, you know, new guy named
Speaker 2: Hbo who had like a football show and a couple
Speaker 2: of movies on at the time, and they had the
Speaker 2: courage to go for it, and he was looking for
Speaker 2: a Jersey centric kind of cast, you know, So I
Speaker 2: think that was a factor.
Speaker 1: Actually, I always try to impress upon people. It's one
Speaker 1: thing if you have great success in TV. It's another
Speaker 1: thing if you change the fortunes of a network. HBO
Speaker 1: was not HBO then that they were going to. They
Speaker 1: went in one end of that experience, came out the
Speaker 1: other end, and with sex and the city and the sopranos,
Speaker 1: it was completely transformed, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, And I give them full credit for
Speaker 2: having that courage, because as far as I know, that
Speaker 2: was the first time I think that a network gave
Speaker 2: complete freedom to the artist and just said, go do it.
Speaker 2: You know, we trust you, go do it, and no notes.
Speaker 2: You know, my brother's been in the writing for TV
Speaker 2: his whole life and he wrote a book about it,
Speaker 2: and it's all it's like you're getting notes all the time.
Speaker 2: You know, uh yeah, fix this, do that, do this,
Speaker 2: do that. And then you of course you did your
Speaker 2: terrific TV show and probably experienced some of that, but
Speaker 2: this was like, hey, here it is, go do it.
Speaker 2: Here's a blank slate. And David Chase had the vision
Speaker 2: to pull it off, and Jimmy Gandelfini had the incredible
Speaker 2: talent to pull it off. And I credit you know,
Speaker 2: Jeff Buchus and Chris Albrick and then those guys for
Speaker 2: having the courage to do it because it was a
Speaker 2: big expense at the time. I remember, this was a
Speaker 2: huge investment for them. They were not really spending that
Speaker 2: kind of money, you know.
Speaker 1: I called Jimmy on the phone. I did street Car
Speaker 1: on Broadway with him in nineteen ninety two. I did
Speaker 1: this very kind of weird, tepid little thriller with dem
Speaker 1: More called The Juror with Jimmy in nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 1: and Jimmy the Show premiered win ninety nine. Okay, so
Speaker 1: the showing, the show goes on and Jimmy becomes certainly
Speaker 1: among the biggest TV stars of his time. And I
Speaker 1: call him up and I go, Jimmy, I can't believe
Speaker 1: what's happening to you. He's got you guys are getting
Speaker 1: nominated and everything's going great. And I go, Jimmy, I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how proud I am of you, how
Speaker 1: envious I am of you. This is amazing. And he
Speaker 1: literally says to me, he's a fucking pain in the ass.
Speaker 1: I gotta get a van. Four o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: I drive out through the Jersey four o'clock in the
Speaker 1: fucking morning. I went through well fucking days of fucking
Speaker 1: pain in my ass. I'm but, Jimmy, you just got nominated. Jimmy,
Speaker 1: you're making a deal. You're making Yeah, yea, you know,
Speaker 1: I understand, But just judges fucking huge pain in my
Speaker 1: fucking ass. And he did a lot of whining.
Speaker 2: I think, oh, forget it. He quit the show every day.
Speaker 1: We're going to get to that for you. For you,
Speaker 1: what was I mean? Music is obviously your first iteration
Speaker 1: in American culture? What was music like for you as
Speaker 1: a kid. Did you go up to a musical household?
Speaker 2: No, not really, It was just the timing happened to
Speaker 2: be that generation that was elevated February ninth, you know,
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four by this crazy variety show on Sunday Nights,
Speaker 2: the guy who owned Sunday Nights before the Sopranos, this
Speaker 2: crazy guy named Ed Sullivan, who you couldn't make him
Speaker 2: up if you tried, something like I don't know what
Speaker 2: he was like Richard the Third on LSD or something,
Speaker 2: and you know, he'd have something for everybody in the
Speaker 2: family to whole would gather around he one TV and
Speaker 2: he'd have opera for the old folks, and he'd have
Speaker 2: puppets for the kids, and he'd have something for the teenagers.
Speaker 2: And February ninth, nineteen sixty four something for the teenagers
Speaker 2: was a group called the Beatles, and that changed my life,
Speaker 2: at least half changed my life. I always have to
Speaker 2: give credit also to the Rolling Stones, because by the
Speaker 2: time we discovered the Beatles, they were halfway through the career.
Speaker 2: You know, they were going since fifty seven, going in
Speaker 2: sixty nine, really, and by sixty four they were extremely sophisticated.
Speaker 2: I mean they were just superb. The harmony was perfect,
Speaker 2: the hair, the clothes, everything was just perfect. So they
Speaker 2: revealed this new world to us. But it didn't exactly
Speaker 2: you know, you didn't exactly look at it and say, geez,
Speaker 2: even though this gives me hope because I'm a freak
Speaker 2: and I don't fit into society anywhere, can I look
Speaker 2: he felt that way. It does give me hope. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you didn't exactly say, geez, I think I can
Speaker 2: do that. Luckily, four months later the Rolling Stones come.
Speaker 2: They don't have any harmony at all, really, they don't,
Speaker 2: you know, the hairs are messed up, except for Brian Jones.
Speaker 2: They are wearing whatever they feel like. They made it
Speaker 2: look like, they made it look easier than it was.
Speaker 2: They were the first punk band, really, And so the
Speaker 2: way I like to put it is, the Beatles revealed
Speaker 2: a new world to us, and the Rolling Stones invited
Speaker 2: us in.
Speaker 1: I love when Jagger does the induction of the Beatles
Speaker 1: into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, when he says,
Speaker 1: he talks about someplace they were performing back in the
Speaker 1: old days, maybe in Liverpool, and he says, and there
Speaker 1: they were in the audience, the foreheaded monster job old
Speaker 1: Georgia Ringo. They never went anywhere without the others. And
Speaker 1: they had these full length leather dusters, these leather coats
Speaker 1: on and he said, and I said to myself, if
Speaker 1: I've got to learn to write songs in order to
Speaker 1: be able to afford I love that line. If I've
Speaker 1: got to learn to write songs in order to be
Speaker 1: able to afford a coat like that, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to learn to write music, I'm well, well, good for you.
Speaker 1: I'm glad the world benefited from that. But but for you,
Speaker 1: the Beatles, and for for all of us, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm a Beatles addict. My wife had the greatest line
Speaker 1: that my wife said was to Paul, you know, you
Speaker 1: guys really are the original boy band. You guys are
Speaker 1: the first boy band when you think about it. And
Speaker 1: McCartney says to my wife, he's so clever, he says,
Speaker 1: to my way, he says, well, really, that's somewhat true.
Speaker 1: But we had to play our instruments while we were
Speaker 1: doing our wiggling, and they only had to sing and wiggle.
Speaker 1: So it was a bit harder for us because we
Speaker 1: had to play the guitar and the drums while we
Speaker 1: were wiggling, and we were howling, laughing, you know. But
Speaker 1: but for you when you when you are playing music
Speaker 1: and you pick up one instrument first guitar, yeah, you're
Speaker 1: how old.
Speaker 2: Well, just before the Beatles came out, my grandfather was
Speaker 2: showing me the Italian a little song from his village
Speaker 2: in Calabria. I don't know if each town had a
Speaker 2: little theme song or what, but he showed me this
Speaker 2: song from his village. So I started to play just
Speaker 2: a couple of months before they came so I got
Speaker 2: a little bit of a head start.
Speaker 1: To play guitar. Yeah, and when and when you're a
Speaker 1: kid and you're playing the guitar. Are you dreaming of
Speaker 1: playing music in a band? Are you dreaming of having
Speaker 1: even an ounce of the Beatles success? Did you want
Speaker 1: to go into music when you were very young?
Speaker 2: No? No, no, it's strictly a Beatle thing. It was
Speaker 2: strictly see keep in mind, and I know people find
Speaker 2: it's hard to believe, but the Beatles introduced the concept
Speaker 2: of bands to us. There were no bands. If you
Speaker 2: went to your high school dance, it was an instrumental group.
Speaker 2: You know, There wasn't There wasn't four or five guys
Speaker 2: singing and playing. You didn't see it. It was soloists.
Speaker 2: Yeahsby Elvis, all the pioneers really, you know, except for
Speaker 2: the Cricket. Other than the crickets, you know, they were
Speaker 2: all solo acts. And by the way, I missed that
Speaker 2: first decade of rock. I missed the pioneers. I had
Speaker 2: to go back and discover them. But even if I
Speaker 2: had been there, I wasn't interested in solo artists. They
Speaker 2: didn't mean anything to me. I didn't want to be
Speaker 2: in show business. I didn't like show business at the time.
Speaker 2: I like it now, but I didn't then, you know,
Speaker 2: you're building your identity and you are what you like,
Speaker 2: you know, and the concept of a band is what
Speaker 2: appealed to me. That made the difference. You know, well
Speaker 2: it's not me, me, me, you know, you're communicating the
Speaker 2: friendship and family and the gang, community, the gang, the posse,
Speaker 2: all of that. That's what appealed to me. That lifestyle
Speaker 2: of doing something in common with your friends. You know,
Speaker 2: there was something that really appealed to me that way.
Speaker 1: And when do you put together a band? The first time?
Speaker 2: Soon after I joined a band as a singer when
Speaker 2: I'm fifteen, and then by the time I'm sixteen, I
Speaker 2: start my own band and I'm playing guitar and singing
Speaker 2: and leading the band that's performing anywhere. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh.
Speaker 2: We were just the luckiest generation man. I mean, there
Speaker 2: were places to play all over the place, all over
Speaker 2: the place.
Speaker 1: You get that age, Oh that.
Speaker 2: Was the best time. This is the best time, man.
Speaker 2: We are our demographic was the first one to really
Speaker 2: be catered to. So we not only had the high
Speaker 2: school dances and the beach clubs right there, we had
Speaker 2: teenage nightclubs built for us, which I haven't seen before
Speaker 2: or since. We played all the time. We were working
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 1: I see that moment you're on stage and you finish
Speaker 1: some blistering song, you're singing some really really great rock song,
Speaker 1: and you guys are done with a set and you
Speaker 1: come up the stage and the guys like your ginger.
Speaker 2: Also, yeah exactly. But I mean, you know, this is
Speaker 2: the thing. It was so new that al we would
Speaker 2: never have that kind of freedom again, you know, because
Speaker 2: it's it's sort of three stages of the rock and
Speaker 2: roll lifestyle, right, you know, there's the teenage one, which
Speaker 2: you know, then there's the bar band world, and then
Speaker 2: there's the professional stuff. You know you get into the business. Well,
Speaker 2: at that age, the teenage world, at that time, there
Speaker 2: was no adult that's going to even pretend to tell
Speaker 2: you what to do because they didn't get it at all.
Speaker 2: They had no idea, There was no templates, No, there
Speaker 2: was no even opinion, you know what I mean. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh, you got to you guys are going
Speaker 2: to do this, which is which is what you got.
Speaker 2: When you got to the bar band stage, you had
Speaker 2: to play the top forty you know, that was a rule.
Speaker 2: We we broke it with the Jukes. We changed new
Speaker 2: Jersey history with Southside Jihn and Hesbury Jukes, by not
Speaker 2: playing the top forty, by by finding a club that
Speaker 2: was going to close because the roof had caved in
Speaker 2: and h and we said, listen, we're not going to
Speaker 2: charge you anything. We'll just take the door, you take
Speaker 2: the bar, but we play whatever we want. And because
Speaker 2: they were going to close, they allowed that to happen.
Speaker 2: And then you know, we just got with fifty people,
Speaker 2: then one hundred and two hundred, and you know, it
Speaker 2: was the residency every Sunday night, and then they fixed
Speaker 2: the roof and then they expanded the place and we
Speaker 2: ended up with three nights a week, a thousand people
Speaker 2: a night. But that was a complete change in the
Speaker 2: New Jersey rules of a bar band. But as teenagers, man,
Speaker 2: it was just like complete freedom. You did whatever you wanted.
Speaker 1: You know, what was the place that was collapsing the facility?
Speaker 2: What was it called Stone Pony?
Speaker 1: It was Stone Pony Stone, Yeah, it was Stone Pony
Speaker 1: was falling apart, yeap, still there. You guys put the
Speaker 1: new roof on Stone Pony.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, And there was you know, it was
Speaker 2: it was a time when when you were making that
Speaker 2: transition to trying to be become more professional, but we
Speaker 2: didn't want to follow the professional rules, so we wanted
Speaker 2: to make up our own rules.
Speaker 1: My first introduction to a variety of music when I
Speaker 1: go to college, which is the real melting pot. You
Speaker 1: really get your cultural chiropractic adjustment when you walk into
Speaker 1: college with a bunch of people from different regions and
Speaker 1: there's all these guys from South Jersey and Philly and
Speaker 1: they were all Asbury Jukes freaks. I'm listening to. I
Speaker 1: didn't know who Boz Skaggs was, and I'm listening to,
Speaker 1: you know, bos Skaggs, Silk degrees, all this stuff, Dan Fogelberg.
Speaker 1: I never had a whiff of all this. But these
Speaker 1: guys were like the Southside Johnny, Asbury dukes freaks. These
Speaker 1: were all South Jersey guys who just craved that music.
Speaker 1: And you wind up doing that for how long? How
Speaker 1: long are you in that band?
Speaker 2: And the initial run well something like seventy four seventy five,
Speaker 2: probably not the most two years, but I stayed involved
Speaker 2: and produced the first three albums, so I was involved
Speaker 2: right through seventy eight, but by seventy end of seventy five,
Speaker 2: I think Bruce decided he was hanging out with us
Speaker 2: because his first two records didn't do anything and he
Speaker 2: couldn't work, so he was not with us, and and
Speaker 2: he was about to put out his third album, Born
Speaker 2: to Run, and decided, one last shot, he was going
Speaker 2: to try fronting the band for a minute, just to
Speaker 2: see if that made any difference, because he just was
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, on the edge of you know,
Speaker 2: big trouble at that point. So he said, come on
Speaker 2: out and play guitar. I'm gonna I'm gonna front the band.
Speaker 2: So I got seven gigs booked, so I decided, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do that, and I just wanted to get
Speaker 2: out of town, you know, because I was not only
Speaker 2: leading the band, but I was also managing the band,
Speaker 2: the Jukes anyway, So you know, I went out with Bruce,
Speaker 2: and him fronting the band did make a big difference, actually,
Speaker 2: and we started to break through, and I went for
Speaker 2: seven gigs and stayed seven years. But Jukes, I wasn't
Speaker 2: actually in the band that long, maybe two years or so.
Speaker 1: But when you say managing the band and producing records,
Speaker 1: did you find it managing for you? Did you find
Speaker 1: any kind of managerial road. Was it tough for you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't do naturally.
Speaker 2: You didn't, well, it did come to me naturally, but
Speaker 2: I didn't really like it. I don't enjoy business in general.
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy the whole negotiating process. So I tend
Speaker 2: to be just up front about Look, this is what's
Speaker 2: needed here. If you don't want to do it, you know,
Speaker 2: I'll go elsewhere. I'm always willing to walk away. I
Speaker 2: don't feel like I need anybody that badly, you know,
Speaker 2: or any deal that badly. So that kind of gives
Speaker 2: you a bit of an edge right away. You know,
Speaker 2: I don't need anybody or anything, you know, And I
Speaker 2: communicate that.
Speaker 1: Or at least you pretend you don't need them very effectively.
Speaker 1: You're good at pretending you don't need it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: You and I may have that in common. I profess
Speaker 1: I don't need anyone or anything. You can all go fuck.
Speaker 1: It's the Irish goodbye. It's the Irish goodbye. Go fuck
Speaker 1: yourself and I'm out of here. We don't even say it,
Speaker 1: but we leave the party getting an uber It's the
Speaker 1: Irish goodbye.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not exactly a completely fraud, because if
Speaker 2: you're a writer, you know, you tend to be pretty independent.
Speaker 2: You know, you can be. I mean, nobody's nobody's completely independent.
Speaker 1: Of course, we all.
Speaker 2: Need distribution of our work one way or the other.
Speaker 2: But you can be quite independent if you're a writer first.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a writer producer first, you know. And
Speaker 2: so when it comes to performing, that's just like a
Speaker 2: vacation for me. You know, whether it's acting or whether
Speaker 2: it's being a rock star and on stage, you know,
Speaker 2: that stuff is just nothing but fun for me. The
Speaker 2: real work is looking at a blank piece of paper
Speaker 2: and creating something from it.
Speaker 1: You know, where's the first time you met Springsteen? Where
Speaker 1: were you in your first laid eyes on him?
Speaker 2: The day before the Beatles played at Sullivan, there wasn't
Speaker 2: one band in America. The day after, everyone had a
Speaker 2: band in their garage. I mean literally everyone. It was
Speaker 2: the most. It was incredible cultural impact, and not just
Speaker 2: for the musicians, by the way. I mean after that,
Speaker 2: when kids were going out at night, you went and
Speaker 2: saw a band. You know, if you didn't go to
Speaker 2: drive in, you know, to the movies, you went and
Speaker 2: saw a bawl. I mean that that was it, that
Speaker 2: was what you did with your free time. I mean,
Speaker 2: so the Beatles created more than just a world, a
Speaker 2: new world for musicians. It was a it was a
Speaker 2: new social world for everybody, you know, and new culture.
Speaker 2: Really it really was. I mean that's no exaggeration. So
Speaker 2: you met him where well, you know, like I said,
Speaker 2: everybody had a band the next day, and mercifully most
Speaker 2: of them stayed in the garage, but about a dozen
Speaker 2: of us got out there into a circuit, and he
Speaker 2: was one of them, and I was one of them.
Speaker 2: I had my band, the Source, and he had his band,
Speaker 2: the cast Heels, and we met each other on the circuit,
Speaker 2: which was made up of all of those places I
Speaker 2: said before, v W VFW halls and all of that,
Speaker 2: and we'd have band battles, you know, every month or
Speaker 2: so there'd be a band battle, you know. But I
Speaker 2: on the weekends, I started going up to the village,
Speaker 2: going to the Cafe Wah on Saturday afternoons, where there
Speaker 2: was bands, one one after the other. And they were
Speaker 2: all about a year ahead of us in New Jersey.
Speaker 2: Because in those days a lot happened very quickly, you know,
Speaker 2: the time was very different. The whole chronological time was
Speaker 2: a completely different animal than now. I mean, five years
Speaker 2: goes by now and nothing happens. You know. Back then,
Speaker 2: every three, four or five months, something major was happening,
Speaker 2: you know, so you go up and try and you know,
Speaker 2: keep up and get ahead of what was happening. And
Speaker 2: so I go up and steal ideas and bring them
Speaker 2: back to my band in New Jersey, you know, which
Speaker 2: is why we were one of the best. And I
Speaker 2: started running into Bruce doing the same thing. You know,
Speaker 2: it was only an hour on the bus, but it
Speaker 2: was kind of an adventurous for you know, for sixteen
Speaker 2: year old kid to do at the time. So I
Speaker 2: ran into him with the Cafe Wah, which is still
Speaker 2: there by the way, and we became closer. And because
Speaker 2: of that, and then I started coming up with him.
Speaker 2: I go to his house in Freehold. He played me
Speaker 2: some new songs, and I'd play him my favorite new records,
Speaker 2: and then we'd get on the bus and go to
Speaker 2: New York. So we became closer because of that.
Speaker 1: And did musical collaboration was inevitable or did you talk
Speaker 1: about it right away? Was it attractive to you or
Speaker 1: did that take some time? You know, do you think
Speaker 1: he fit into your musical plans and vice versa. You
Speaker 1: can meet somebody you love, but to sit there, I
Speaker 1: don't see us working together.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, you know, I regret that we
Speaker 2: didn't back then, But I was reminded of this by
Speaker 2: one of the other members of the group, which we
Speaker 2: tracked down when I was writing the book, and he
Speaker 2: reminded me that I did come to the band and
Speaker 2: want Bruce because Bruce had having a little trouble with
Speaker 2: his band. He wasn't even the lead singer in his band,
Speaker 2: by the way, but he was having a little trouble,
Speaker 2: you know, there was some bad vibes going on. So
Speaker 2: I went to my band and wanted him to join,
Speaker 2: wanted Brews to be in our band. But it was
Speaker 2: pointed out to me that Bruce's mother didn't drive, so
Speaker 2: because the mothers were the ones.
Speaker 1: Taking turns, I swear to his truth, his gold.
Speaker 2: Because the mother took turns driving us to the gigs,
Speaker 2: and because his mother didn't drive, he really couldn't be
Speaker 2: in the band. So so we didn't actually collaborate.
Speaker 1: We didn't.
Speaker 2: We wouldn't collaborate till a few years later. You know,
Speaker 2: when we started having a different group every three, four
Speaker 2: or five months. You know, we just started experimenting. Like
Speaker 2: I said, we were learning our identities. And you'd go
Speaker 2: from one trend to the next. Every year there was
Speaker 2: a different trend, you know, a bridge invasion to folk rock,
Speaker 2: to psychedelic rock, to country rock, the blues rock, you know,
Speaker 2: to southern rock. You know, there was one one trend
Speaker 2: to the other, and you tend to go from one
Speaker 2: trend to the next as a as a learning like
Speaker 2: you were going to school, you know, and you pick
Speaker 2: up a little bit from this, a little bit from that,
Speaker 2: and you know, put it into your own identity as
Speaker 2: you built who you were going to be. And and
Speaker 2: then finally we we ended up, you know, he ended
Speaker 2: up getting he got signed, and then I would join
Speaker 2: him on the third album for the tour.
Speaker 1: So you didn't record the album, you just joyed the album. No.
Speaker 2: I visited those sessions just as a friend, you know,
Speaker 2: but then officially would join at that point. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actor and musician Stephen van zandt If you love in
Speaker 1: depth discussions about iconic TV shows, listen to my conversation
Speaker 1: with the creator of The Wire, David Simon, A.
Speaker 3: Lot of people think The Wire came in the wake
Speaker 3: of the Sopranos, but when we wrote the Wire scripts
Speaker 3: for the first season, we hadn't seen the Sopranos. We
Speaker 3: were writing in the absence of the Sprans. We were
Speaker 3: writing in the shadow of Oz. Oz was the first
Speaker 3: time that HBO had ventured into this. Hey, we'll put
Speaker 3: it on TV, and you've never seen it before on
Speaker 3: TV territory. So that was when I saw the pilot
Speaker 3: of Oz. I went to Tom and said, you know,
Speaker 3: you could do a show about a drug corner.
Speaker 1: Here the rest of my conversation with David Simon at
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Stephen van
Speaker 1: Zandt tells us about the moment he walked away from
Speaker 1: the music business. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. Stephen van Zant's path from musician
Speaker 1: to actor was anything but straightforward. It began when he
Speaker 1: left the East Street Band after seven years.
Speaker 2: I actually left eighty two. I produced most of Born
Speaker 2: in the USA. I then left recorded two solo albums,
Speaker 2: and then they added three more songs to what I
Speaker 2: had done and put out Born in the USA. The
Speaker 2: same year as my second album, Voice of America, So
Speaker 2: technically eighty two. Nobody noticed until eighty four, and then
Speaker 2: I was took a little eighteen year hiatus. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 2: I did five solo albums in the eighties, all very political,
Speaker 2: and I decided that would be my identity because in
Speaker 2: the Renaissance period that I grew up in, everybody had
Speaker 2: a very, very very specific identity.
Speaker 1: Eighteen years. Are you in a band and performing solo
Speaker 1: acts for the entire eighteen years and then you go
Speaker 1: back to.
Speaker 2: No, no, no No for the first seven years. I started
Speaker 2: the Disciples of Soul, and I do my five solo
Speaker 2: albums in the eighties and eighty nine, I walk away
Speaker 2: from music business completely and I basically go out into
Speaker 2: the wilderness for seven years. I don't want to be
Speaker 2: over dramatic about it, but I was. You know, nobody
Speaker 2: wanted to sign me after Sun City success. It was
Speaker 2: a little bit too successful, and people started getting nervous
Speaker 2: about me. Uh Troublemaker, yeah, and a successful one you know,
Speaker 2: which was the worst punctive, yeah, effective one, which you know,
Speaker 2: nobody thought that coming, including me. But so I kind
Speaker 2: of just drifted for seven years until the David Chase
Speaker 2: called and said, do you want to be in my
Speaker 2: new TV show?
Speaker 1: When he contacted you to be in the show, you
Speaker 1: weren't back with Bruce yet.
Speaker 2: No you will, No, No, I'm looking for it, and
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting.
Speaker 1: And I don't say this. We were all kind of
Speaker 1: some of my producers kind of I'm not going to
Speaker 1: say they gasped, but their eyes widened when I said,
Speaker 1: isn't it interesting that you work with Springsteen, who I
Speaker 1: have boundless admiration for. I mean, I certainly love his music.
Speaker 1: But I said, isn't it interesting that you go on
Speaker 1: your own and you went up on a TV show
Speaker 1: where on any given Sunday you have a bigger audience
Speaker 1: in one night and he has the entire run of
Speaker 1: his Broadway show times ten. You go on to become
Speaker 1: one of the stars of the most successful television shows
Speaker 1: in history, and that's kind of it's kind of weird.
Speaker 1: Did you see that coming at all? Did you have
Speaker 1: any idea that acting was because because you say, you
Speaker 1: kind of go off into the wilderness, you're on this hiatus,
Speaker 1: you're on this vision quest, and then you wind up
Speaker 1: Chase calls you. Were you ready for that call? Were
Speaker 1: you thinking I'll try that.
Speaker 2: No, I had no idea, no, and I and I
Speaker 2: had no interest in being an actor ever. I liked obviously,
Speaker 2: I liked the art form, and I saw myself maybe
Speaker 2: writing someday and maybe even directing or producing. But I never,
Speaker 2: you know, never sort of fantasized about being an actor.
Speaker 2: So it was it was a challenge, you know, when
Speaker 2: he called, and it just so happened. This particular genre,
Speaker 2: you know, this particular mill you was something that was
Speaker 2: an interest of mine, you know what I mean. It
Speaker 2: was just one of I don't know what if they
Speaker 2: call it a hobby or an interest. But I had
Speaker 2: just read every Mob book, you know, and I had
Speaker 2: seen every Mob movie, and uh. And I grew up
Speaker 2: around the guys or maybe wannabes, which is what's the difference.
Speaker 2: They're equally scary, you know. So I kind of just
Speaker 2: I just kind of felt I could do this, you know,
Speaker 2: I kind of knew this kind of guy, and uh,
Speaker 2: and if I could, if I could create him from
Speaker 2: the outside in, which is what I did. And I
Speaker 2: wrote a biograph I want to talk about that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, but so, you know, I just I just
Speaker 2: it's just something I just felt I could do.
Speaker 1: So you're famous for you wear a Bendanta, you have
Speaker 1: a bendada. You are a legendary bandana aficionado. Your startorial
Speaker 1: legacy is highlight by Ben Dana wearing for many decades.
Speaker 1: And yet you turn up on a TV show where
Speaker 1: you have one of the richest heads of hair in
Speaker 1: human history. This character has a little hair like the
Speaker 1: hood of a car, like the hood of a buick.
Speaker 1: That's your hair or do they put a piece on you?
Speaker 2: Well, the wonderful thing that turns out of wearing the bandana,
Speaker 2: you know as often as I did. When you do
Speaker 2: have hair, you know, you really look quite different. And
Speaker 2: let me tell you something. That particular hairstyle I got
Speaker 2: partially from you. One of your early movies you had
Speaker 2: very close to that hairstyle, and I thought, I thought,
Speaker 2: that's that's exactly what he should look like. So you
Speaker 2: probably I'm not. I'm not, I'm not. I forget which movie,
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. You remember your hair
Speaker 2: was very similar to Silvio's at one point. I mean,
Speaker 2: it may have just been one movie I did.
Speaker 1: I did. I had a famous hairdresser who is who
Speaker 1: I think he retired from the business. Name was Lewis Lacari.
Speaker 1: Lewis Lacari was a legend in New York and he
Speaker 1: had a very unique voice. And I'm sure he won't
Speaker 1: mind me making fun of him. And and I said
Speaker 1: to him, I said, I want it, black man, I said,
Speaker 1: dye my hair. I wanted to be so fucking black.
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like the fucking Ink. And finally,
Speaker 1: Etercity one day he died in my hair. And he says, now, Alec,
Speaker 1: He says, if I dye your hair any darker, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be purple on camera. It's going to look like
Speaker 1: an egg plant. I said, I don't fucking care. I'm
Speaker 1: going to make it look like an egg plant. And
Speaker 1: I would put so much shit in my hair to
Speaker 1: have that black, black Elvis hair, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But so, is it your hair or they put a
Speaker 1: hair piece on you? No?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's a piece.
Speaker 1: It's a piece in a piece that hair. Oh my god, unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so, my my I wrote a biography and
Speaker 2: a guy and uh and he was, you know, well,
Speaker 2: it came from a treatment that I had written about
Speaker 2: a guy who opened a Copla gobanda type of club,
Speaker 2: but in present day, and you know, the five families
Speaker 2: all had their tables, and the commissioner and you know,
Speaker 2: the police and the mayor. It was kind of a
Speaker 2: gumba casa blanca kind of a you know, basically exactly,
Speaker 2: and it was Silvio and that's where the character came from.
Speaker 2: So you know, I had, I had a bit of
Speaker 2: a backstory prepared because you know, I had, you know,
Speaker 2: I'd watched my wife do it. You know, my wife's
Speaker 2: a real actor. I mean she she's been going to
Speaker 2: classes for years and had a theater company, and she
Speaker 2: would go to class and tell me about the classes,
Speaker 2: and you know, some of the stuff I agreed with
Speaker 2: some of the theory, some of some I didn't necessarily,
Speaker 2: But in the end, I just had to come up
Speaker 2: with my own acting theory, which I felt, you know,
Speaker 2: every human characteristic exists in all of us, and the job,
Speaker 2: the craft is finding the appropriate characteristics for that particular
Speaker 2: character in that particular moment. And that's how I looked
Speaker 2: at it. And I felt if I could look at
Speaker 2: the mirror and see the guy, then I could be
Speaker 2: that guy. And today's day, I have nothing but respect
Speaker 2: for actors such as yourself, who can act looking like themselves.
Speaker 2: I mean, I just find that incredible, you know.
Speaker 1: And I'm always trying to access pieces where I can
Speaker 1: put you know, as what you know. Olivier called it
Speaker 1: the putty on the nose acting, you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm always trying to find roles I can play where
Speaker 1: I can get as far away from myself as I can.
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that in acting, when you have
Speaker 1: the chance, there's acting that's very muted and you want
Speaker 1: to keep it as close to yourself as you can
Speaker 1: and do as little as possible, and you're probably going
Speaker 1: to make an ass of yourself if you don't. And
Speaker 1: then there's acting where it's tight. It's three four moves
Speaker 1: and maybe two or three beats where you're at that
Speaker 1: character for you, the hair, the scowl, there's three or
Speaker 1: four things that you pick up on that become the
Speaker 1: character in terms of his cut. Because all acting, to
Speaker 1: me and old television and film projects are like music.
Speaker 1: It's like classical music. You have your part to play.
Speaker 1: You've got to fit in to this thing. Director the
Speaker 1: writer has a vision for something he wants to do,
Speaker 1: and the worst thing you can do is step outside
Speaker 1: of what you're supposed to do. Like you're looking at
Speaker 1: the director, this is my thing, and I'm going, what
Speaker 1: do you want me to do? Am I here to
Speaker 1: play the triangle? Am I playing the tuba? What am
Speaker 1: I playing? Am I the violin? Soloist? Or the piano?
Speaker 1: And with you, you take these three four beats you
Speaker 1: put together and you're like fucking Edward g. Robinson. You
Speaker 1: know, I mean, you're in that territory of a guy who's
Speaker 1: created a character. And it's like that line, it's right, Moufti,
Speaker 1: It's right, mouft You know, just expect. But he's a
Speaker 1: wise You crafted the guy that was the wise mobster.
Speaker 1: The other guys are emotional, tough, loud, crazy, and you're
Speaker 1: the one who he needs you. When you watch the Sopranos,
Speaker 1: what you realize is of all those men, you're the
Speaker 1: one he needed most. That's my opinion.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it was a fascinating thing to analyze because
Speaker 2: you know, when you're doing these things, you're not necessarily
Speaker 2: analyzing it. But when I when I go back to
Speaker 2: write a book, you know, you really got to analyze it.
Speaker 2: And first of all, all the things you just said
Speaker 2: are true. And I had one additional challenge which I
Speaker 2: needed to in my mind. Since I was never going
Speaker 2: to play music again, you know, I was done with that,
Speaker 2: you know. So now i'mbarking on a brand new career,
Speaker 2: which I thought would be the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure that I did everything a
Speaker 2: little bit different. You know. I didn't want anybody saying,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I just saw him play in Cleveland
Speaker 2: last week, you know. So in addition to all of
Speaker 2: those other little things, you know, the hair and the
Speaker 2: scowl and the walk, I mean, I practiced laughing, I
Speaker 2: practice smiling practice, you know, every single thing I could
Speaker 2: think of, I wanted to do different than I usually do.
Speaker 2: So there was that, And what was I think most
Speaker 2: interesting about the whole experience was well, first of all,
Speaker 2: David Chase hired me to be Tony. Okay, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you know that. Yes, all right, So so
Speaker 2: so HBO said, are you out of your fucking mind? Okay,
Speaker 2: we're about to invest all this money. The guy never
Speaker 2: acted before, and he said, so, he says, well, so
Speaker 2: what do you want to do? I said, I said, well, David,
Speaker 2: now that I think about it, because it's all been
Speaker 2: such a spontaneous sort of rush. I said, I'm starting
Speaker 2: to feel guilty about taking an actor's job here. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, these guys work their whole lives. I watched
Speaker 2: my wife go through it, you know. And I said,
Speaker 2: you know, so I'm just going to go back to
Speaker 2: where I belong, you know, which is unemployed. And he
Speaker 2: said no, I'll tell you what. Then I'll write you
Speaker 2: in a part that doesn't exist. You know. I want you.
Speaker 2: I want you in this And that's when he said,
Speaker 2: what do you want to do? I said, well, I
Speaker 2: have this treatment, you know, I have this treatment of
Speaker 2: the Silvio Dante guy who was an independent hitman, and
Speaker 2: he has this club and you know. And David went away, Okay,
Speaker 2: let me, let me run it by HBO. He says
Speaker 2: it's a good idea. Comes back says, now, I can't
Speaker 2: afford it, so we're going to make it a strip
Speaker 2: club and you know, and you'll run it for the family.
Speaker 2: So what happens, I think is I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's liminal or what, but I think that's why a
Speaker 2: lot of second seasons are always better than the first season,
Speaker 2: because the writers start to they start to incorporate the
Speaker 2: characteristics of the actors into the parts, right, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And now, in this case, the most
Speaker 2: to me, the most interesting thing is I'm the only
Speaker 2: guy that's not in the pilot, I mean originally, so
Speaker 2: now he puts me into the pilot and puts me
Speaker 2: into the into the show as a kind of unclear
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, you're going to run the strip club
Speaker 2: for the family, and we're gonna have the meetings in
Speaker 2: the back room. You know, that's gonna be the clubhouse
Speaker 2: whatever you call it, the office. But that was it though,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. There wasn't any kind of
Speaker 2: really clear definition yet. Okay, Now here's what's interesting to me.
Speaker 2: Here's mister David Chase, the most detailed oriented guy on Earth. Okay,
Speaker 2: and he writes what twelve fifteen fascinating characters, terrific characters.
Speaker 2: He doesn't write in the Undivorced. He doesn't write in
Speaker 2: the Consolieri, which is sometimes two different people. Okay, sometimes
Speaker 2: it's the same guy, sometimes it's two different people. He
Speaker 2: doesn't write into the script either one. Now, this is
Speaker 2: an extremely important part of any mob family, you know,
Speaker 2: on the Boss, you have a CONCLIERTI that's just you know,
Speaker 2: there's no exception to that rule. He doesn't write them in. Okay,
Speaker 2: So by the end of the first season, you know,
Speaker 2: he did a second season. You know, my character gravitates
Speaker 2: into that role is about which was very similar to
Speaker 2: the role I was playing with Bruce Springsteen in real life.
Speaker 2: You know. Interesting, It was fascinating to me. When you
Speaker 2: really look back and analyze it, I'm like, Wow, how
Speaker 2: could he not have written in and I'm the Boss?
Speaker 1: You know all those shows. I did a couple of
Speaker 1: arcs on Will and Grace, and I was madly in
Speaker 1: love with Megan Malalley. I just worshiped Megan. She's so talented,
Speaker 1: and they bring me on to play this kooky character
Speaker 1: that's in love with Megan. And I went back and
Speaker 1: watched online early episodes of the show, and you can see,
Speaker 1: like a lot of shows and ones that become very
Speaker 1: popular and very successful, they're all groping towards the character
Speaker 1: in season one. Right by season two, season three, they're
Speaker 1: doing characters which are unrecognizable from the first four or
Speaker 1: five episode. They've migrated so far. So you go back
Speaker 1: to Bruce you go back into the band. Correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a tough decision because I just started,
Speaker 2: you know, after eighteen years of unemployment. Basically, I finally
Speaker 2: found a new job, which I was hoping to be,
Speaker 2: you know, my first steady job of my life. That's
Speaker 2: what unfortunately, I'm still looking for. So he decides to
Speaker 2: put the band back together right after the first season's
Speaker 2: filmed and just as it's being broadcast. So I said,
Speaker 2: you know, I just felt I needed some closure. There's
Speaker 2: I'll always wonder about this move, but I said, you know,
Speaker 2: I left under some bizarre circumstances explained in the book,
Speaker 2: but I really needed to have some closure there. And
Speaker 2: so David Chase, being the amazing guy, he has scheduled
Speaker 2: my scenes for days off of the tour, and believe
Speaker 2: it or not, and.
Speaker 1: He went back.
Speaker 2: I went back and did seven seasons in ten years
Speaker 2: of Sopranos, and another three seasons and four years of
Speaker 2: Lillly Hammer Lily Hammer, fourteen years of steady acting and
Speaker 2: touring simultaneously. And I missed one month of one tour
Speaker 2: and one month of another tour. That's it.
Speaker 1: Stephen van zandt subscribe to Here's the Thing on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: While you're there, leave us a review. When we come back.
Speaker 1: Stephen van Zandt tells us how we ended up playing
Speaker 1: the role of another gangster on the mean streets of Norway.
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.
Speaker 1: Stephen van Zandt parlayed his incredible success on The Sopranos
Speaker 1: into another show with a familiar concept but an unfamiliar setting.
Speaker 2: I was producing a record for my record label in Norway.
Speaker 2: I signed a bunch of Norwegian bands and there's a
Speaker 2: couple in the lobby to see you go down and
Speaker 2: say hello, hello, you know Is and br Instead and
Speaker 2: I left Scottvin and they were writers in Norway and Oslo,
Speaker 2: and they said, well, we wrote a TV show for you.
Speaker 2: You know, now, as you know, this is not something
Speaker 2: you hear every day. You know, you might hear it
Speaker 2: every day. I don't hear it every day, you know,
Speaker 2: that's all you know. Your ego says, oh, hello, what
Speaker 2: would that be? And of course the pitch was, you know,
Speaker 2: a guy goes into his protection program and chooses Norway.
Speaker 1: Sammy the Bull goes to Oslo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, oh man, I just played
Speaker 2: a gangster for ten years. I can't do that. You know.
Speaker 2: I love the show. By the way, I just started,
Speaker 2: I thank you in the end. I couldn't resist. I
Speaker 2: was like, whoever heard of going to a foreign country
Speaker 2: and starring in a local show. I'd never heard of
Speaker 2: that before, you know. So we took a year to
Speaker 2: write it, which was very complicated. I didn't want it
Speaker 2: to be a straight ahead comedy. I wanted to be
Speaker 2: a drama edy. And I said to them, I said, listen,
Speaker 2: if I'm making my living playing a gangster, I can't
Speaker 2: make fun of these guys. You understand. I canna live
Speaker 2: in New York, you know. So any humor has to
Speaker 2: come from circumstance. It has to come from character, you know.
Speaker 2: I don't wan anybody trying to be funny, you know.
Speaker 2: And we decided how much English to use because it
Speaker 2: had to work for the Norwegian audience and the American audience,
Speaker 2: you know. Very complicated and anyway, so we're six weeks
Speaker 2: into filming and I realized somebody, you know, the production people,
Speaker 2: not the writers, but the production heads kind of fraudulent
Speaker 2: about the budget because I, you know, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: I see my my makeup guy carrying a camera, and
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like, what, you know, what's going on here?
Speaker 2: And it turns out I'm telling you it's like that.
Speaker 2: They're very you know, do it yourself over there. And
Speaker 2: I realized, oh my god, we can't afford to shoot
Speaker 2: the show that we wrote, and I mean we spent
Speaker 2: a year writing it. So I told my agent. I said,
Speaker 2: the one guy I know, Chris Albrick. But we just
Speaker 2: left HBO to go to Stars. I said, book. I said,
Speaker 2: I gotta make a deal. I got to make an
Speaker 2: American deal. Here. We can't afford to shoot the show.
Speaker 2: I go to Chris. I had the guys create a trailer,
Speaker 2: which wasn't easy. We'd only been filming six weeks. So
Speaker 2: we put together a trailer miraculously, and I showed it
Speaker 2: to Chris Aubrick that he loved it. He says, I
Speaker 2: want it. It's great, I said. He said, what do
Speaker 2: you need? I said, well, you know, the budget's over there.
Speaker 2: I said, the mere reality show budget. It's like eight
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. When I'm competing with you know,
Speaker 2: four million dollars.
Speaker 1: Do you know that. I was on the Sopranos, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I said, I said, I need at
Speaker 2: least a million dollars a show. You know. He says,
Speaker 2: I don't have it in a budget this year. I said.
Speaker 2: He said, I'll give you two million next year. You know.
Speaker 2: I said, this is going to be great, I said, Chris,
Speaker 2: I can't wait. I started filming. The thing is, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm in the middle of filming this fucking thing.
Speaker 1: It's weird.
Speaker 2: So I said, okay, well, well, I said, let me
Speaker 2: see what I can do. And I leave there and
Speaker 2: I said to my agent, what's that across the street?
Speaker 2: This new thing called Netflix? All right? I look it
Speaker 2: up and I see, uh Ted Sorrando's name, and I call,
Speaker 2: you know, I said, I can I talk to Ted
Speaker 2: Torrandos please. He gets right on the phone. I said, Ted,
Speaker 2: Stevie van Zane, hear you're looking for content? Is this true?
Speaker 2: He says, yeah, we're just starting. You got something? I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I got something. He says, come on in. There's two
Speaker 2: people at Netflix at that time too, so materials. He
Speaker 2: loves it and the greatest business deal of my life.
Speaker 2: In one hour, I walked away with a two year deal,
Speaker 2: which I'd never heard of, and I think it is
Speaker 2: to this day. It may be the only two year deal.
Speaker 1: Almost impossible.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, even successful shows, right, they only go one year,
Speaker 2: you know, because you know, God forbid, they take a chance. Well,
Speaker 2: this guy had balls, man, and I will respect this
Speaker 2: guy forever. I'm so glad the success he's had. But
Speaker 2: we turned out to read the first show on Netflix fantastic.
Speaker 2: So I watched History Happen twice. You know, HBO with
Speaker 2: their extraordinary creativity becoming the go to a place for
Speaker 2: adult content and then Netflix turning it into an international concept.
Speaker 1: You're developing any other TV now or no?
Speaker 2: I got five scripts? Yeah, I'm looking at and I
Speaker 2: want to I want to do something because you know,
Speaker 2: we had another tour. We were going to tour us
Speaker 2: here and then once again we're not. So I've got
Speaker 2: to go. I want to get back on TV. I
Speaker 2: really do.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. And I
Speaker 1: want to say, you know, you tell your story and
Speaker 1: you talk about your nature that you doubt things, your purity,
Speaker 1: your honesty, your integrity, whatever, But all these things that
Speaker 1: guided you through your music career and then on into
Speaker 1: your acting career. They were responsible for your success, you know,
Speaker 1: to Thine own self be true, you clinging to your
Speaker 1: beliefs made you who you are. When I think about
Speaker 1: your career, made you who you are as a musician
Speaker 1: and led to the amount of success you had as
Speaker 1: a musician and as an actor. You know, you said
Speaker 1: you were like, I'm going to play this part the
Speaker 1: only way that I feel comfortable with and the rest
Speaker 1: is history. So you in the to Thine own self
Speaker 1: Be True department, It's really paid off for you, big time,
Speaker 1: big time.
Speaker 2: So thank you. I don't know if you have any
Speaker 2: choice in these matters to tell your truth. You know,
Speaker 2: we all like to pretend in charge, you know, and
Speaker 2: making all of these decisions. But I sometimes wonder about
Speaker 2: that it was.
Speaker 1: The right move. T. I get to say that to
Speaker 1: you now. It was the right move to your career choices,
Speaker 1: It was the right move. T.
Speaker 2: Thanks man. Good talking to you, my.
Speaker 1: Friend Stephen van ZANDT. This is I Don't Want to
Speaker 1: Go Home. From the album Soul Fire Live by Little
Speaker 1: Stephen and the Disciples of Soul by Malec Baldwin. Here's
Speaker 1: the thing that's brought to you by iHeart Radios.
Speaker 3: For you.
Speaker 1: Not long, because I've only had tried.
Speaker 2: To recoping tousing star
Speaker 1: Whatever