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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the

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Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. Few performers cross over from one

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Speaker 1: artistic medium to another and achieve great success in both.

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Speaker 1: My guest Today, Stephen van Zandt, known as Little Stephen

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Speaker 1: to some, is one such performer. Singer, songwriter, and producer,

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Speaker 1: Van Zant first found fame as a member of the

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Speaker 1: Eastreet Band with Bruce Springsteen, but this prolific musician also

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Speaker 1: founded New Jersey's own Southside Johnny and the Asbury Jukes,

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Speaker 1: along with his solo project Little Stephen and the Disciples

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Speaker 1: of Soul. In a surprising second act, van Zandt starred

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Speaker 1: as the inimitable Silvio Dante in The Sopranos for nine

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Speaker 1: years with no prior acting experience. It was a role

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Speaker 1: that certainly made its mark on me. There was a

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Speaker 1: period of my life of four years where I was divorced,

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Speaker 1: I had my daughter. I needed stability in my life.

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Speaker 1: Sunday night, I watched sixty Minutes nine o'clock, I watched You.

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Speaker 1: At ten o'clock, I watched Big Love, and then I

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Speaker 1: went to bed. And any show you watch, it gets

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Speaker 1: in your skin and my friend and I we would

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Speaker 1: say this line all the time.

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Speaker 2: You gotta pick your bottles, you want your no show jobs, mitos,

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Speaker 2: gotta go. It's the right move tea.

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Speaker 1: It's the right move tea. We would walk around for

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Speaker 1: five fucking years and we'd be in a restaurant, my

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Speaker 1: friends and I go waiter. I'm gonna have the chicken,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to want the onions. I want

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Speaker 1: the onions on the side. I understand. I want the

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Speaker 1: fingerling potatoes and you can hold the spinach. I don't

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Speaker 1: want the cream spinach. I just want the potatoes, onions

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Speaker 1: on the side and the chicken. All right, And my

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Speaker 1: friend look at me and go, it's the right move tea.

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Speaker 1: We said the phrase it's the right move tea a

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Speaker 1: thousand fucking times since I first heard you utter that

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Speaker 1: on the show. I am your great fan. I am

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Speaker 1: your great.

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Speaker 2: Fan well, and I have yours well.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I thought about when I thought about you,

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Speaker 1: when I was reading the stuff the research we did,

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Speaker 1: what was that idea? Because I want to cover music

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Speaker 1: and acting as well, and that is that for you.

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Speaker 1: It's live music. You're in front of an audience and

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Speaker 1: you're getting all that feedback from a live audience and you, guys,

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Speaker 1: I must say, got a pretty good feedback, got a

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Speaker 1: pretty good response. And then you're in a studio recording,

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Speaker 1: and then you're filming a television show and you bring

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Speaker 1: the language, and you bring the traditions, and you're bringing

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Speaker 1: the habits of the musician, the famous musician, and you

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Speaker 1: go into the TV show the set. Was that a

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Speaker 1: difficult transition for you? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: At first, yeah, because you know, acting is a lot

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Speaker 2: of trust and I and you know, if the director

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Speaker 2: is happy, you got to be happy. And that was

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Speaker 2: a new kind of trust for me. We're used to

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Speaker 2: kind of directing ourselves in the music world. And I

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Speaker 2: said to myself, how does he know if that's as

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Speaker 2: good as I can do it? You know, And in

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Speaker 2: the music world, you know, you go in the studio,

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Speaker 2: you sing a song, and you come in the control

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Speaker 2: room and listen to it, and you say, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe I could, maybe I could do it better. Let

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Speaker 2: me go, Let me go in and try it again. Acting.

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Speaker 2: You know, you act, and then you see it, you know,

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Speaker 2: eight months later, and it's like, geez, I probably could

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Speaker 2: have done that a little bit better if I had known,

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Speaker 2: So it just took it took a minute to just

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Speaker 2: to trust the process, you know, and trust the new medium,

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Speaker 2: and it's a whole different trip.

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Speaker 1: You were born in Massachusetts, correct, correct and raised, and

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Speaker 1: you moved to Jersey as a kid, yeah, seven years

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Speaker 1: and you grew up in New Jersey. And these two

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Speaker 1: most notable. I mean, you obviously had other successes as

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Speaker 1: a solo artisan with other bands and ensembles and stuff

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Speaker 1: for the recording, but you know, you're identified as both

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Speaker 1: on television and on vinyl and CD as a son

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Speaker 1: of New Jersey when you got hired by Chase to

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Speaker 1: do the TV show. Did that have anything to do

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Speaker 1: with anything?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Actually, first of all, everybody passed on the show

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Speaker 2: because he insisted on filming a New Jersey and every

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Speaker 2: respectable network said, you know, we don't film in New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: Good luck.

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Speaker 2: Luckily he found this upstart, you know, new guy named

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Speaker 2: Hbo who had like a football show and a couple

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Speaker 2: of movies on at the time, and they had the

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Speaker 2: courage to go for it, and he was looking for

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Speaker 2: a Jersey centric kind of cast, you know, So I

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Speaker 2: think that was a factor.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I always try to impress upon people. It's one

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Speaker 1: thing if you have great success in TV. It's another

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Speaker 1: thing if you change the fortunes of a network. HBO

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Speaker 1: was not HBO then that they were going to. They

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Speaker 1: went in one end of that experience, came out the

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Speaker 1: other end, and with sex and the city and the sopranos,

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Speaker 1: it was completely transformed, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean yeah, And I give them full credit for

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Speaker 2: having that courage, because as far as I know, that

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Speaker 2: was the first time I think that a network gave

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Speaker 2: complete freedom to the artist and just said, go do it.

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Speaker 2: You know, we trust you, go do it, and no notes.

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Speaker 2: You know, my brother's been in the writing for TV

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Speaker 2: his whole life and he wrote a book about it,

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Speaker 2: and it's all it's like you're getting notes all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, uh yeah, fix this, do that, do this,

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Speaker 2: do that. And then you of course you did your

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Speaker 2: terrific TV show and probably experienced some of that, but

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Speaker 2: this was like, hey, here it is, go do it.

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Speaker 2: Here's a blank slate. And David Chase had the vision

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Speaker 2: to pull it off, and Jimmy Gandelfini had the incredible

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Speaker 2: talent to pull it off. And I credit you know,

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Speaker 2: Jeff Buchus and Chris Albrick and then those guys for

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Speaker 2: having the courage to do it because it was a

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Speaker 2: big expense at the time. I remember, this was a

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Speaker 2: huge investment for them. They were not really spending that

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Speaker 2: kind of money, you know.

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Speaker 1: I called Jimmy on the phone. I did street Car

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Speaker 1: on Broadway with him in nineteen ninety two. I did

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Speaker 1: this very kind of weird, tepid little thriller with dem

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Speaker 1: More called The Juror with Jimmy in nineteen ninety five,

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Speaker 1: and Jimmy the Show premiered win ninety nine. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: the showing, the show goes on and Jimmy becomes certainly

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Speaker 1: among the biggest TV stars of his time. And I

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Speaker 1: call him up and I go, Jimmy, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: what's happening to you. He's got you guys are getting

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Speaker 1: nominated and everything's going great. And I go, Jimmy, I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how proud I am of you, how

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Speaker 1: envious I am of you. This is amazing. And he

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Speaker 1: literally says to me, he's a fucking pain in the ass.

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Speaker 1: I gotta get a van. Four o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 1: I drive out through the Jersey four o'clock in the

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Speaker 1: fucking morning. I went through well fucking days of fucking

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Speaker 1: pain in my ass. I'm but, Jimmy, you just got nominated. Jimmy,

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Speaker 1: you're making a deal. You're making Yeah, yea, you know,

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Speaker 1: I understand, But just judges fucking huge pain in my

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Speaker 1: fucking ass. And he did a lot of whining.

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Speaker 2: I think, oh, forget it. He quit the show every day.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get to that for you. For you,

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Speaker 1: what was I mean? Music is obviously your first iteration

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Speaker 1: in American culture? What was music like for you as

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Speaker 1: a kid. Did you go up to a musical household?

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Speaker 2: No, not really, It was just the timing happened to

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Speaker 2: be that generation that was elevated February ninth, you know,

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four by this crazy variety show on Sunday Nights,

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Speaker 2: the guy who owned Sunday Nights before the Sopranos, this

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Speaker 2: crazy guy named Ed Sullivan, who you couldn't make him

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Speaker 2: up if you tried, something like I don't know what

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Speaker 2: he was like Richard the Third on LSD or something,

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Speaker 2: and you know, he'd have something for everybody in the

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Speaker 2: family to whole would gather around he one TV and

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Speaker 2: he'd have opera for the old folks, and he'd have

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Speaker 2: puppets for the kids, and he'd have something for the teenagers.

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Speaker 2: And February ninth, nineteen sixty four something for the teenagers

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Speaker 2: was a group called the Beatles, and that changed my life,

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Speaker 2: at least half changed my life. I always have to

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Speaker 2: give credit also to the Rolling Stones, because by the

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Speaker 2: time we discovered the Beatles, they were halfway through the career.

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Speaker 2: You know, they were going since fifty seven, going in

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Speaker 2: sixty nine, really, and by sixty four they were extremely sophisticated.

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Speaker 2: I mean they were just superb. The harmony was perfect,

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Speaker 2: the hair, the clothes, everything was just perfect. So they

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Speaker 2: revealed this new world to us. But it didn't exactly

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Speaker 2: you know, you didn't exactly look at it and say, geez,

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Speaker 2: even though this gives me hope because I'm a freak

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Speaker 2: and I don't fit into society anywhere, can I look

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Speaker 2: he felt that way. It does give me hope. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but you didn't exactly say, geez, I think I can

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Speaker 2: do that. Luckily, four months later the Rolling Stones come.

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Speaker 2: They don't have any harmony at all, really, they don't,

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Speaker 2: you know, the hairs are messed up, except for Brian Jones.

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Speaker 2: They are wearing whatever they feel like. They made it

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Speaker 2: look like, they made it look easier than it was.

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Speaker 2: They were the first punk band, really, And so the

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Speaker 2: way I like to put it is, the Beatles revealed

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Speaker 2: a new world to us, and the Rolling Stones invited

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Speaker 2: us in.

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Speaker 1: I love when Jagger does the induction of the Beatles

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Speaker 1: into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, when he says,

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Speaker 1: he talks about someplace they were performing back in the

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Speaker 1: old days, maybe in Liverpool, and he says, and there

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Speaker 1: they were in the audience, the foreheaded monster job old

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Speaker 1: Georgia Ringo. They never went anywhere without the others. And

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Speaker 1: they had these full length leather dusters, these leather coats

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Speaker 1: on and he said, and I said to myself, if

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Speaker 1: I've got to learn to write songs in order to

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Speaker 1: be able to afford I love that line. If I've

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Speaker 1: got to learn to write songs in order to be

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Speaker 1: able to afford a coat like that, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to learn to write music, I'm well, well, good for you.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad the world benefited from that. But but for you,

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Speaker 1: the Beatles, and for for all of us, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm a Beatles addict. My wife had the greatest line

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Speaker 1: that my wife said was to Paul, you know, you

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Speaker 1: guys really are the original boy band. You guys are

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Speaker 1: the first boy band when you think about it. And

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Speaker 1: McCartney says to my wife, he's so clever, he says,

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Speaker 1: to my way, he says, well, really, that's somewhat true.

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Speaker 1: But we had to play our instruments while we were

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Speaker 1: doing our wiggling, and they only had to sing and wiggle.

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Speaker 1: So it was a bit harder for us because we

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Speaker 1: had to play the guitar and the drums while we

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Speaker 1: were wiggling, and we were howling, laughing, you know. But

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Speaker 1: but for you when you when you are playing music

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Speaker 1: and you pick up one instrument first guitar, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: how old.

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Speaker 2: Well, just before the Beatles came out, my grandfather was

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Speaker 2: showing me the Italian a little song from his village

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Speaker 2: in Calabria. I don't know if each town had a

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Speaker 2: little theme song or what, but he showed me this

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Speaker 2: song from his village. So I started to play just

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Speaker 2: a couple of months before they came so I got

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Speaker 2: a little bit of a head start.

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Speaker 1: To play guitar. Yeah, and when and when you're a

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Speaker 1: kid and you're playing the guitar. Are you dreaming of

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Speaker 1: playing music in a band? Are you dreaming of having

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Speaker 1: even an ounce of the Beatles success? Did you want

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Speaker 1: to go into music when you were very young?

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Speaker 2: No? No, no, it's strictly a Beatle thing. It was

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Speaker 2: strictly see keep in mind, and I know people find

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Speaker 2: it's hard to believe, but the Beatles introduced the concept

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Speaker 2: of bands to us. There were no bands. If you

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Speaker 2: went to your high school dance, it was an instrumental group.

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Speaker 2: You know, There wasn't There wasn't four or five guys

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Speaker 2: singing and playing. You didn't see it. It was soloists.

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Speaker 2: Yeahsby Elvis, all the pioneers really, you know, except for

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Speaker 2: the Cricket. Other than the crickets, you know, they were

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Speaker 2: all solo acts. And by the way, I missed that

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Speaker 2: first decade of rock. I missed the pioneers. I had

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Speaker 2: to go back and discover them. But even if I

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Speaker 2: had been there, I wasn't interested in solo artists. They

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Speaker 2: didn't mean anything to me. I didn't want to be

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Speaker 2: in show business. I didn't like show business at the time.

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Speaker 2: I like it now, but I didn't then, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're building your identity and you are what you like,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the concept of a band is what

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Speaker 2: appealed to me. That made the difference. You know, well

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Speaker 2: it's not me, me, me, you know, you're communicating the

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Speaker 2: friendship and family and the gang, community, the gang, the posse,

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Speaker 2: all of that. That's what appealed to me. That lifestyle

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Speaker 2: of doing something in common with your friends. You know,

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Speaker 2: there was something that really appealed to me that way.

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Speaker 1: And when do you put together a band? The first time?

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Speaker 2: Soon after I joined a band as a singer when

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Speaker 2: I'm fifteen, and then by the time I'm sixteen, I

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Speaker 2: start my own band and I'm playing guitar and singing

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Speaker 2: and leading the band that's performing anywhere. Yeah, oh yeah. Oh.

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Speaker 2: We were just the luckiest generation man. I mean, there

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Speaker 2: were places to play all over the place, all over

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Speaker 2: the place.

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Speaker 1: You get that age, Oh that.

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Speaker 2: Was the best time. This is the best time, man.

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Speaker 2: We are our demographic was the first one to really

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Speaker 2: be catered to. So we not only had the high

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Speaker 2: school dances and the beach clubs right there, we had

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Speaker 2: teenage nightclubs built for us, which I haven't seen before

255
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Speaker 2: or since. We played all the time. We were working

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Speaker 2: all the time.

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Speaker 1: I see that moment you're on stage and you finish

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Speaker 1: some blistering song, you're singing some really really great rock song,

259
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Speaker 1: and you guys are done with a set and you

260
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Speaker 1: come up the stage and the guys like your ginger.

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Speaker 2: Also, yeah exactly. But I mean, you know, this is

262
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Speaker 2: the thing. It was so new that al we would

263
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Speaker 2: never have that kind of freedom again, you know, because

264
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Speaker 2: it's it's sort of three stages of the rock and

265
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Speaker 2: roll lifestyle, right, you know, there's the teenage one, which

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Speaker 2: you know, then there's the bar band world, and then

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Speaker 2: there's the professional stuff. You know you get into the business. Well,

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Speaker 2: at that age, the teenage world, at that time, there

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Speaker 2: was no adult that's going to even pretend to tell

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Speaker 2: you what to do because they didn't get it at all.

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Speaker 2: They had no idea, There was no templates, No, there

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Speaker 2: was no even opinion, you know what I mean. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't like, oh, you got to you guys are going

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Speaker 2: to do this, which is which is what you got.

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Speaker 2: When you got to the bar band stage, you had

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Speaker 2: to play the top forty you know, that was a rule.

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Speaker 2: We we broke it with the Jukes. We changed new

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Speaker 2: Jersey history with Southside Jihn and Hesbury Jukes, by not

279
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Speaker 2: playing the top forty, by by finding a club that

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Speaker 2: was going to close because the roof had caved in

281
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Speaker 2: and h and we said, listen, we're not going to

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Speaker 2: charge you anything. We'll just take the door, you take

283
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Speaker 2: the bar, but we play whatever we want. And because

284
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Speaker 2: they were going to close, they allowed that to happen.

285
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Speaker 2: And then you know, we just got with fifty people,

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Speaker 2: then one hundred and two hundred, and you know, it

287
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Speaker 2: was the residency every Sunday night, and then they fixed

288
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Speaker 2: the roof and then they expanded the place and we

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Speaker 2: ended up with three nights a week, a thousand people

290
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Speaker 2: a night. But that was a complete change in the

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Speaker 2: New Jersey rules of a bar band. But as teenagers, man,

292
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Speaker 2: it was just like complete freedom. You did whatever you wanted.

293
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Speaker 1: You know, what was the place that was collapsing the facility?

294
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Speaker 2: What was it called Stone Pony?

295
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Speaker 1: It was Stone Pony Stone, Yeah, it was Stone Pony

296
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Speaker 1: was falling apart, yeap, still there. You guys put the

297
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Speaker 1: new roof on Stone Pony.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, And there was you know, it was

299
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Speaker 2: it was a time when when you were making that

300
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Speaker 2: transition to trying to be become more professional, but we

301
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Speaker 2: didn't want to follow the professional rules, so we wanted

302
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Speaker 2: to make up our own rules.

303
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Speaker 1: My first introduction to a variety of music when I

304
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Speaker 1: go to college, which is the real melting pot. You

305
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 1: really get your cultural chiropractic adjustment when you walk into

306
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 1: college with a bunch of people from different regions and

307
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Speaker 1: there's all these guys from South Jersey and Philly and

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Speaker 1: they were all Asbury Jukes freaks. I'm listening to. I

309
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Speaker 1: didn't know who Boz Skaggs was, and I'm listening to,

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Speaker 1: you know, bos Skaggs, Silk degrees, all this stuff, Dan Fogelberg.

311
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Speaker 1: I never had a whiff of all this. But these

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00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,800
Speaker 1: guys were like the Southside Johnny, Asbury dukes freaks. These

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Speaker 1: were all South Jersey guys who just craved that music.

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Speaker 1: And you wind up doing that for how long? How

315
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Speaker 1: long are you in that band?

316
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Speaker 2: And the initial run well something like seventy four seventy five,

317
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Speaker 2: probably not the most two years, but I stayed involved

318
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Speaker 2: and produced the first three albums, so I was involved

319
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Speaker 2: right through seventy eight, but by seventy end of seventy five,

320
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Speaker 2: I think Bruce decided he was hanging out with us

321
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Speaker 2: because his first two records didn't do anything and he

322
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Speaker 2: couldn't work, so he was not with us, and and

323
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,680
Speaker 2: he was about to put out his third album, Born

324
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Speaker 2: to Run, and decided, one last shot, he was going

325
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Speaker 2: to try fronting the band for a minute, just to

326
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Speaker 2: see if that made any difference, because he just was

327
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Speaker 2: kind of, you know, on the edge of you know,

328
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Speaker 2: big trouble at that point. So he said, come on

329
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Speaker 2: out and play guitar. I'm gonna I'm gonna front the band.

330
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Speaker 2: So I got seven gigs booked, so I decided, you know,

331
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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do that, and I just wanted to get

332
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Speaker 2: out of town, you know, because I was not only

333
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 2: leading the band, but I was also managing the band,

334
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 2: the Jukes anyway, So you know, I went out with Bruce,

335
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Speaker 2: and him fronting the band did make a big difference, actually,

336
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Speaker 2: and we started to break through, and I went for

337
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 2: seven gigs and stayed seven years. But Jukes, I wasn't

338
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Speaker 2: actually in the band that long, maybe two years or so.

339
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Speaker 1: But when you say managing the band and producing records,

340
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Speaker 1: did you find it managing for you? Did you find

341
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,719
Speaker 1: any kind of managerial road. Was it tough for you? Yeah,

342
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:06,720
Speaker 1: I can't do naturally.

343
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 2: You didn't, well, it did come to me naturally, but

344
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 2: I didn't really like it. I don't enjoy business in general.

345
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,280
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy the whole negotiating process. So I tend

346
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,760
Speaker 2: to be just up front about Look, this is what's

347
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,679
Speaker 2: needed here. If you don't want to do it, you know,

348
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 2: I'll go elsewhere. I'm always willing to walk away. I

349
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 2: don't feel like I need anybody that badly, you know,

350
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 2: or any deal that badly. So that kind of gives

351
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 2: you a bit of an edge right away. You know,

352
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: I don't need anybody or anything, you know, And I

353
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 2: communicate that.

354
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 1: Or at least you pretend you don't need them very effectively.

355
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 1: You're good at pretending you don't need it.

356
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's yeah.

357
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Speaker 1: You and I may have that in common. I profess

358
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Speaker 1: I don't need anyone or anything. You can all go fuck.

359
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 1: It's the Irish goodbye. It's the Irish goodbye. Go fuck

360
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,480
Speaker 1: yourself and I'm out of here. We don't even say it,

361
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 1: but we leave the party getting an uber It's the

362
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:58,719
Speaker 1: Irish goodbye.

363
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's not exactly a completely fraud, because if

364
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 2: you're a writer, you know, you tend to be pretty independent.

365
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,520
Speaker 2: You know, you can be. I mean, nobody's nobody's completely independent.

366
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 1: Of course, we all.

367
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 2: Need distribution of our work one way or the other.

368
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 2: But you can be quite independent if you're a writer first.

369
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a writer producer first, you know. And

370
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 2: so when it comes to performing, that's just like a

371
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,680
Speaker 2: vacation for me. You know, whether it's acting or whether

372
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,439
Speaker 2: it's being a rock star and on stage, you know,

373
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 2: that stuff is just nothing but fun for me. The

374
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 2: real work is looking at a blank piece of paper

375
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Speaker 2: and creating something from it.

376
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 1: You know, where's the first time you met Springsteen? Where

377
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 1: were you in your first laid eyes on him?

378
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 2: The day before the Beatles played at Sullivan, there wasn't

379
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: one band in America. The day after, everyone had a

380
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 2: band in their garage. I mean literally everyone. It was

381
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 2: the most. It was incredible cultural impact, and not just

382
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 2: for the musicians, by the way. I mean after that,

383
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 2: when kids were going out at night, you went and

384
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 2: saw a band. You know, if you didn't go to

385
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 2: drive in, you know, to the movies, you went and

386
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,240
Speaker 2: saw a bawl. I mean that that was it, that

387
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: was what you did with your free time. I mean,

388
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 2: so the Beatles created more than just a world, a

389
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 2: new world for musicians. It was a it was a

390
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 2: new social world for everybody, you know, and new culture.

391
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 2: Really it really was. I mean that's no exaggeration. So

392
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 2: you met him where well, you know, like I said,

393
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,680
Speaker 2: everybody had a band the next day, and mercifully most

394
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 2: of them stayed in the garage, but about a dozen

395
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: of us got out there into a circuit, and he

396
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 2: was one of them, and I was one of them.

397
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: I had my band, the Source, and he had his band,

398
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 2: the cast Heels, and we met each other on the circuit,

399
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 2: which was made up of all of those places I

400
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 2: said before, v W VFW halls and all of that,

401
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 2: and we'd have band battles, you know, every month or

402
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,479
Speaker 2: so there'd be a band battle, you know. But I

403
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 2: on the weekends, I started going up to the village,

404
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: going to the Cafe Wah on Saturday afternoons, where there

405
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 2: was bands, one one after the other. And they were

406
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 2: all about a year ahead of us in New Jersey.

407
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 2: Because in those days a lot happened very quickly, you know,

408
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: the time was very different. The whole chronological time was

409
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 2: a completely different animal than now. I mean, five years

410
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 2: goes by now and nothing happens. You know. Back then,

411
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 2: every three, four or five months, something major was happening,

412
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: you know, so you go up and try and you know,

413
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 2: keep up and get ahead of what was happening. And

414
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: so I go up and steal ideas and bring them

415
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,680
Speaker 2: back to my band in New Jersey, you know, which

416
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: is why we were one of the best. And I

417
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: started running into Bruce doing the same thing. You know,

418
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,919
Speaker 2: it was only an hour on the bus, but it

419
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 2: was kind of an adventurous for you know, for sixteen

420
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 2: year old kid to do at the time. So I

421
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: ran into him with the Cafe Wah, which is still

422
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 2: there by the way, and we became closer. And because

423
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 2: of that, and then I started coming up with him.

424
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: I go to his house in Freehold. He played me

425
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 2: some new songs, and I'd play him my favorite new records,

426
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: and then we'd get on the bus and go to

427
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: New York. So we became closer because of that.

428
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: And did musical collaboration was inevitable or did you talk

429
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: about it right away? Was it attractive to you or

430
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 1: did that take some time? You know, do you think

431
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: he fit into your musical plans and vice versa. You

432
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: can meet somebody you love, but to sit there, I

433
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 1: don't see us working together.

434
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 2: I don't know why, you know, I regret that we

435
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: didn't back then, But I was reminded of this by

436
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: one of the other members of the group, which we

437
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 2: tracked down when I was writing the book, and he

438
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: reminded me that I did come to the band and

439
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: want Bruce because Bruce had having a little trouble with

440
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: his band. He wasn't even the lead singer in his band,

441
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: by the way, but he was having a little trouble,

442
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 2: you know, there was some bad vibes going on. So

443
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 2: I went to my band and wanted him to join,

444
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 2: wanted Brews to be in our band. But it was

445
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: pointed out to me that Bruce's mother didn't drive, so

446
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: because the mothers were the ones.

447
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 1: Taking turns, I swear to his truth, his gold.

448
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 2: Because the mother took turns driving us to the gigs,

449
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: and because his mother didn't drive, he really couldn't be

450
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 2: in the band. So so we didn't actually collaborate.

451
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: We didn't.

452
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 2: We wouldn't collaborate till a few years later. You know,

453
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 2: when we started having a different group every three, four

454
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 2: or five months. You know, we just started experimenting. Like

455
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 2: I said, we were learning our identities. And you'd go

456
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: from one trend to the next. Every year there was

457
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: a different trend, you know, a bridge invasion to folk rock,

458
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 2: to psychedelic rock, to country rock, the blues rock, you know,

459
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: to southern rock. You know, there was one one trend

460
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 2: to the other, and you tend to go from one

461
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: trend to the next as a as a learning like

462
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: you were going to school, you know, and you pick

463
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: up a little bit from this, a little bit from that,

464
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 2: and you know, put it into your own identity as

465
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: you built who you were going to be. And and

466
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 2: then finally we we ended up, you know, he ended

467
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 2: up getting he got signed, and then I would join

468
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: him on the third album for the tour.

469
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: So you didn't record the album, you just joyed the album. No.

470
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: I visited those sessions just as a friend, you know,

471
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: but then officially would join at that point. Yeah.

472
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: Actor and musician Stephen van zandt If you love in

473
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: depth discussions about iconic TV shows, listen to my conversation

474
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: with the creator of The Wire, David Simon, A.

475
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 3: Lot of people think The Wire came in the wake

476
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 3: of the Sopranos, but when we wrote the Wire scripts

477
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: for the first season, we hadn't seen the Sopranos. We

478
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 3: were writing in the absence of the Sprans. We were

479
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 3: writing in the shadow of Oz. Oz was the first

480
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 3: time that HBO had ventured into this. Hey, we'll put

481
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: it on TV, and you've never seen it before on

482
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 3: TV territory. So that was when I saw the pilot

483
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 3: of Oz. I went to Tom and said, you know,

484
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 3: you could do a show about a drug corner.

485
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: Here the rest of my conversation with David Simon at

486
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, Stephen van

487
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: Zandt tells us about the moment he walked away from

488
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: the music business. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening

489
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. Stephen van Zant's path from musician

490
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: to actor was anything but straightforward. It began when he

491
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: left the East Street Band after seven years.

492
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: I actually left eighty two. I produced most of Born

493
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 2: in the USA. I then left recorded two solo albums,

494
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: and then they added three more songs to what I

495
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: had done and put out Born in the USA. The

496
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: same year as my second album, Voice of America, So

497
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 2: technically eighty two. Nobody noticed until eighty four, and then

498
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: I was took a little eighteen year hiatus. Yeah. Well,

499
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: I did five solo albums in the eighties, all very political,

500
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: and I decided that would be my identity because in

501
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 2: the Renaissance period that I grew up in, everybody had

502
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: a very, very very specific identity.

503
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: Eighteen years. Are you in a band and performing solo

504
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: acts for the entire eighteen years and then you go

505
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: back to.

506
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: No, no, no No for the first seven years. I started

507
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 2: the Disciples of Soul, and I do my five solo

508
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 2: albums in the eighties and eighty nine, I walk away

509
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: from music business completely and I basically go out into

510
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: the wilderness for seven years. I don't want to be

511
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: over dramatic about it, but I was. You know, nobody

512
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: wanted to sign me after Sun City success. It was

513
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: a little bit too successful, and people started getting nervous

514
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: about me. Uh Troublemaker, yeah, and a successful one you know,

515
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: which was the worst punctive, yeah, effective one, which you know,

516
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 2: nobody thought that coming, including me. But so I kind

517
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: of just drifted for seven years until the David Chase

518
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: called and said, do you want to be in my

519
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: new TV show?

520
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: When he contacted you to be in the show, you

521
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: weren't back with Bruce yet.

522
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: No you will, No, No, I'm looking for it, and

523
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting.

524
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: And I don't say this. We were all kind of

525
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: some of my producers kind of I'm not going to

526
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: say they gasped, but their eyes widened when I said,

527
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: isn't it interesting that you work with Springsteen, who I

528
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: have boundless admiration for. I mean, I certainly love his music.

529
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 1: But I said, isn't it interesting that you go on

530
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: your own and you went up on a TV show

531
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: where on any given Sunday you have a bigger audience

532
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: in one night and he has the entire run of

533
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: his Broadway show times ten. You go on to become

534
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: one of the stars of the most successful television shows

535
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: in history, and that's kind of it's kind of weird.

536
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 1: Did you see that coming at all? Did you have

537
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: any idea that acting was because because you say, you

538
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: kind of go off into the wilderness, you're on this hiatus,

539
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: you're on this vision quest, and then you wind up

540
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 1: Chase calls you. Were you ready for that call? Were

541
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: you thinking I'll try that.

542
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: No, I had no idea, no, and I and I

543
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: had no interest in being an actor ever. I liked obviously,

544
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 2: I liked the art form, and I saw myself maybe

545
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: writing someday and maybe even directing or producing. But I never,

546
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: you know, never sort of fantasized about being an actor.

547
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 2: So it was it was a challenge, you know, when

548
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 2: he called, and it just so happened. This particular genre,

549
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: you know, this particular mill you was something that was

550
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: an interest of mine, you know what I mean. It

551
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: was just one of I don't know what if they

552
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 2: call it a hobby or an interest. But I had

553
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 2: just read every Mob book, you know, and I had

554
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: seen every Mob movie, and uh. And I grew up

555
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: around the guys or maybe wannabes, which is what's the difference.

556
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: They're equally scary, you know. So I kind of just

557
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: I just kind of felt I could do this, you know,

558
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: I kind of knew this kind of guy, and uh,

559
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 2: and if I could, if I could create him from

560
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: the outside in, which is what I did. And I

561
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: wrote a biograph I want to talk about that, yeah,

562
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: you know, but so, you know, I just I just

563
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: it's just something I just felt I could do.

564
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: So you're famous for you wear a Bendanta, you have

565
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: a bendada. You are a legendary bandana aficionado. Your startorial

566
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: legacy is highlight by Ben Dana wearing for many decades.

567
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: And yet you turn up on a TV show where

568
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: you have one of the richest heads of hair in

569
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: human history. This character has a little hair like the

570
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: hood of a car, like the hood of a buick.

571
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: That's your hair or do they put a piece on you?

572
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: Well, the wonderful thing that turns out of wearing the bandana,

573
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 2: you know as often as I did. When you do

574
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: have hair, you know, you really look quite different. And

575
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 2: let me tell you something. That particular hairstyle I got

576
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: partially from you. One of your early movies you had

577
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: very close to that hairstyle, and I thought, I thought,

578
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: that's that's exactly what he should look like. So you

579
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: probably I'm not. I'm not, I'm not. I forget which movie,

580
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: but you know what I mean. You remember your hair

581
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: was very similar to Silvio's at one point. I mean,

582
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: it may have just been one movie I did.

583
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 1: I did. I had a famous hairdresser who is who

584
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: I think he retired from the business. Name was Lewis Lacari.

585
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 1: Lewis Lacari was a legend in New York and he

586
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: had a very unique voice. And I'm sure he won't

587
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 1: mind me making fun of him. And and I said

588
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: to him, I said, I want it, black man, I said,

589
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: dye my hair. I wanted to be so fucking black.

590
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like the fucking Ink. And finally,

591
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: Etercity one day he died in my hair. And he says, now, Alec,

592
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: He says, if I dye your hair any darker, it's

593
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: gonna be purple on camera. It's going to look like

594
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: an egg plant. I said, I don't fucking care. I'm

595
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: going to make it look like an egg plant. And

596
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: I would put so much shit in my hair to

597
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: have that black, black Elvis hair, you know what I mean.

598
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: But so, is it your hair or they put a

599
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 1: hair piece on you? No?

600
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's a piece.

601
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: It's a piece in a piece that hair. Oh my god, unbelievable.

602
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so, my my I wrote a biography and

603
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: a guy and uh and he was, you know, well,

604
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 2: it came from a treatment that I had written about

605
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: a guy who opened a Copla gobanda type of club,

606
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: but in present day, and you know, the five families

607
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: all had their tables, and the commissioner and you know,

608
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 2: the police and the mayor. It was kind of a

609
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: gumba casa blanca kind of a you know, basically exactly,

610
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: and it was Silvio and that's where the character came from.

611
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: So you know, I had, I had a bit of

612
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 2: a backstory prepared because you know, I had, you know,

613
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: I'd watched my wife do it. You know, my wife's

614
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: a real actor. I mean she she's been going to

615
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: classes for years and had a theater company, and she

616
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: would go to class and tell me about the classes,

617
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: and you know, some of the stuff I agreed with

618
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: some of the theory, some of some I didn't necessarily,

619
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: But in the end, I just had to come up

620
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: with my own acting theory, which I felt, you know,

621
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: every human characteristic exists in all of us, and the job,

622
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: the craft is finding the appropriate characteristics for that particular

623
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: character in that particular moment. And that's how I looked

624
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: at it. And I felt if I could look at

625
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 2: the mirror and see the guy, then I could be

626
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: that guy. And today's day, I have nothing but respect

627
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 2: for actors such as yourself, who can act looking like themselves.

628
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: I mean, I just find that incredible, you know.

629
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: And I'm always trying to access pieces where I can

630
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: put you know, as what you know. Olivier called it

631
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: the putty on the nose acting, you know. I mean,

632
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm always trying to find roles I can play where

633
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: I can get as far away from myself as I can.

634
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: But what's interesting is that in acting, when you have

635
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: the chance, there's acting that's very muted and you want

636
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: to keep it as close to yourself as you can

637
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: and do as little as possible, and you're probably going

638
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: to make an ass of yourself if you don't. And

639
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 1: then there's acting where it's tight. It's three four moves

640
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: and maybe two or three beats where you're at that

641
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: character for you, the hair, the scowl, there's three or

642
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: four things that you pick up on that become the

643
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,959
Speaker 1: character in terms of his cut. Because all acting, to

644
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: me and old television and film projects are like music.

645
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: It's like classical music. You have your part to play.

646
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: You've got to fit in to this thing. Director the

647
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: writer has a vision for something he wants to do,

648
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: and the worst thing you can do is step outside

649
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: of what you're supposed to do. Like you're looking at

650
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: the director, this is my thing, and I'm going, what

651
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: do you want me to do? Am I here to

652
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: play the triangle? Am I playing the tuba? What am

653
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: I playing? Am I the violin? Soloist? Or the piano?

654
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: And with you, you take these three four beats you

655
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: put together and you're like fucking Edward g. Robinson. You

656
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: know, I mean, you're in that territory of a guy who's

657
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: created a character. And it's like that line, it's right, Moufti,

658
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: It's right, mouft You know, just expect. But he's a

659
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: wise You crafted the guy that was the wise mobster.

660
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: The other guys are emotional, tough, loud, crazy, and you're

661
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 1: the one who he needs you. When you watch the Sopranos,

662
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: what you realize is of all those men, you're the

663
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: one he needed most. That's my opinion.

664
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 2: Well, it's it was a fascinating thing to analyze because

665
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: you know, when you're doing these things, you're not necessarily

666
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 2: analyzing it. But when I when I go back to

667
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: write a book, you know, you really got to analyze it.

668
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: And first of all, all the things you just said

669
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: are true. And I had one additional challenge which I

670
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 2: needed to in my mind. Since I was never going

671
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: to play music again, you know, I was done with that,

672
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 2: you know. So now i'mbarking on a brand new career,

673
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: which I thought would be the rest of my life.

674
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure that I did everything a

675
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: little bit different. You know. I didn't want anybody saying,

676
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 2: wait a minute, I just saw him play in Cleveland

677
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 2: last week, you know. So in addition to all of

678
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: those other little things, you know, the hair and the

679
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 2: scowl and the walk, I mean, I practiced laughing, I

680
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: practice smiling practice, you know, every single thing I could

681
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 2: think of, I wanted to do different than I usually do.

682
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: So there was that, And what was I think most

683
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: interesting about the whole experience was well, first of all,

684
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 2: David Chase hired me to be Tony. Okay, I don't

685
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: know if you know that. Yes, all right, So so

686
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,439
Speaker 2: so HBO said, are you out of your fucking mind? Okay,

687
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 2: we're about to invest all this money. The guy never

688
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: acted before, and he said, so, he says, well, so

689
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: what do you want to do? I said, I said, well, David,

690
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 2: now that I think about it, because it's all been

691
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 2: such a spontaneous sort of rush. I said, I'm starting

692
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: to feel guilty about taking an actor's job here. I mean,

693
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 2: you know, these guys work their whole lives. I watched

694
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 2: my wife go through it, you know. And I said,

695
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: you know, so I'm just going to go back to

696
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 2: where I belong, you know, which is unemployed. And he

697
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 2: said no, I'll tell you what. Then I'll write you

698
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 2: in a part that doesn't exist. You know. I want you.

699
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: I want you in this And that's when he said,

700
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: what do you want to do? I said, well, I

701
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: have this treatment, you know, I have this treatment of

702
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: the Silvio Dante guy who was an independent hitman, and

703
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: he has this club and you know. And David went away, Okay,

704
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: let me, let me run it by HBO. He says

705
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: it's a good idea. Comes back says, now, I can't

706
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: afford it, so we're going to make it a strip

707
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 2: club and you know, and you'll run it for the family.

708
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: So what happens, I think is I don't know if

709
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: it's liminal or what, but I think that's why a

710
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 2: lot of second seasons are always better than the first season,

711
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: because the writers start to they start to incorporate the

712
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 2: characteristics of the actors into the parts, right, you know

713
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: what I mean. And now, in this case, the most

714
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 2: to me, the most interesting thing is I'm the only

715
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: guy that's not in the pilot, I mean originally, so

716
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 2: now he puts me into the pilot and puts me

717
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: into the into the show as a kind of unclear

718
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 2: you know, Okay, you're going to run the strip club

719
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: for the family, and we're gonna have the meetings in

720
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: the back room. You know, that's gonna be the clubhouse

721
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: whatever you call it, the office. But that was it though,

722
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. There wasn't any kind of

723
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: really clear definition yet. Okay, Now here's what's interesting to me.

724
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: Here's mister David Chase, the most detailed oriented guy on Earth. Okay,

725
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 2: and he writes what twelve fifteen fascinating characters, terrific characters.

726
00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 2: He doesn't write in the Undivorced. He doesn't write in

727
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: the Consolieri, which is sometimes two different people. Okay, sometimes

728
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: it's the same guy, sometimes it's two different people. He

729
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: doesn't write into the script either one. Now, this is

730
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: an extremely important part of any mob family, you know,

731
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 2: on the Boss, you have a CONCLIERTI that's just you know,

732
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 2: there's no exception to that rule. He doesn't write them in. Okay,

733
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 2: So by the end of the first season, you know,

734
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 2: he did a second season. You know, my character gravitates

735
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: into that role is about which was very similar to

736
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: the role I was playing with Bruce Springsteen in real life.

737
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: You know. Interesting, It was fascinating to me. When you

738
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: really look back and analyze it, I'm like, Wow, how

739
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: could he not have written in and I'm the Boss?

740
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: You know all those shows. I did a couple of

741
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: arcs on Will and Grace, and I was madly in

742
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: love with Megan Malalley. I just worshiped Megan. She's so talented,

743
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: and they bring me on to play this kooky character

744
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: that's in love with Megan. And I went back and

745
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: watched online early episodes of the show, and you can see,

746
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: like a lot of shows and ones that become very

747
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: popular and very successful, they're all groping towards the character

748
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: in season one. Right by season two, season three, they're

749
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: doing characters which are unrecognizable from the first four or

750
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: five episode. They've migrated so far. So you go back

751
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 1: to Bruce you go back into the band. Correct.

752
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a tough decision because I just started,

753
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 2: you know, after eighteen years of unemployment. Basically, I finally

754
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: found a new job, which I was hoping to be,

755
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 2: you know, my first steady job of my life. That's

756
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 2: what unfortunately, I'm still looking for. So he decides to

757
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 2: put the band back together right after the first season's

758
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: filmed and just as it's being broadcast. So I said,

759
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 2: you know, I just felt I needed some closure. There's

760
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: I'll always wonder about this move, but I said, you know,

761
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,439
Speaker 2: I left under some bizarre circumstances explained in the book,

762
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: but I really needed to have some closure there. And

763
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: so David Chase, being the amazing guy, he has scheduled

764
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 2: my scenes for days off of the tour, and believe

765
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 2: it or not, and.

766
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: He went back.

767
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 2: I went back and did seven seasons in ten years

768
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: of Sopranos, and another three seasons and four years of

769
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 2: Lillly Hammer Lily Hammer, fourteen years of steady acting and

770
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: touring simultaneously. And I missed one month of one tour

771
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: and one month of another tour. That's it.

772
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: Stephen van zandt subscribe to Here's the Thing on the

773
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

774
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: While you're there, leave us a review. When we come back.

775
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: Stephen van Zandt tells us how we ended up playing

776
00:40:55,960 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: the role of another gangster on the mean streets of Norway.

777
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing.

778
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: Stephen van Zandt parlayed his incredible success on The Sopranos

779
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: into another show with a familiar concept but an unfamiliar setting.

780
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: I was producing a record for my record label in Norway.

781
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 2: I signed a bunch of Norwegian bands and there's a

782
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 2: couple in the lobby to see you go down and

783
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 2: say hello, hello, you know Is and br Instead and

784
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: I left Scottvin and they were writers in Norway and Oslo,

785
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 2: and they said, well, we wrote a TV show for you.

786
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: You know, now, as you know, this is not something

787
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: you hear every day. You know, you might hear it

788
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: every day. I don't hear it every day, you know,

789
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 2: that's all you know. Your ego says, oh, hello, what

790
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: would that be? And of course the pitch was, you know,

791
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 2: a guy goes into his protection program and chooses Norway.

792
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: Sammy the Bull goes to Oslo.

793
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was like, oh man, I just played

794
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 2: a gangster for ten years. I can't do that. You know.

795
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 2: I love the show. By the way, I just started,

796
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: I thank you in the end. I couldn't resist. I

797
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 2: was like, whoever heard of going to a foreign country

798
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: and starring in a local show. I'd never heard of

799
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: that before, you know. So we took a year to

800
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: write it, which was very complicated. I didn't want it

801
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 2: to be a straight ahead comedy. I wanted to be

802
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,959
Speaker 2: a drama edy. And I said to them, I said, listen,

803
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 2: if I'm making my living playing a gangster, I can't

804
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 2: make fun of these guys. You understand. I canna live

805
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: in New York, you know. So any humor has to

806
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 2: come from circumstance. It has to come from character, you know.

807
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: I don't wan anybody trying to be funny, you know.

808
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: And we decided how much English to use because it

809
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: had to work for the Norwegian audience and the American audience,

810
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: you know. Very complicated and anyway, so we're six weeks

811
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: into filming and I realized somebody, you know, the production people,

812
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: not the writers, but the production heads kind of fraudulent

813
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: about the budget because I, you know, all of a sudden,

814
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: I see my my makeup guy carrying a camera, and

815
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like, what, you know, what's going on here?

816
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 2: And it turns out I'm telling you it's like that.

817
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: They're very you know, do it yourself over there. And

818
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: I realized, oh my god, we can't afford to shoot

819
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: the show that we wrote, and I mean we spent

820
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 2: a year writing it. So I told my agent. I said,

821
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 2: the one guy I know, Chris Albrick. But we just

822
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: left HBO to go to Stars. I said, book. I said,

823
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 2: I gotta make a deal. I got to make an

824
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: American deal. Here. We can't afford to shoot the show.

825
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 2: I go to Chris. I had the guys create a trailer,

826
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 2: which wasn't easy. We'd only been filming six weeks. So

827
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 2: we put together a trailer miraculously, and I showed it

828
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: to Chris Aubrick that he loved it. He says, I

829
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: want it. It's great, I said. He said, what do

830
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: you need? I said, well, you know, the budget's over there.

831
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 2: I said, the mere reality show budget. It's like eight

832
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars. When I'm competing with you know,

833
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 2: four million dollars.

834
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: Do you know that. I was on the Sopranos, right.

835
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 2: I mean, and I said, I said, I need at

836
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: least a million dollars a show. You know. He says,

837
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 2: I don't have it in a budget this year. I said.

838
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: He said, I'll give you two million next year. You know.

839
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,479
Speaker 2: I said, this is going to be great, I said, Chris,

840
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 2: I can't wait. I started filming. The thing is, you know,

841
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: I'm in the middle of filming this fucking thing.

842
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: It's weird.

843
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: So I said, okay, well, well, I said, let me

844
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 2: see what I can do. And I leave there and

845
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: I said to my agent, what's that across the street?

846
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 2: This new thing called Netflix? All right? I look it

847
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: up and I see, uh Ted Sorrando's name, and I call,

848
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: you know, I said, I can I talk to Ted

849
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: Torrandos please. He gets right on the phone. I said, Ted,

850
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 2: Stevie van Zane, hear you're looking for content? Is this true?

851
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: He says, yeah, we're just starting. You got something? I said, yeah,

852
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: I got something. He says, come on in. There's two

853
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 2: people at Netflix at that time too, so materials. He

854
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 2: loves it and the greatest business deal of my life.

855
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,839
Speaker 2: In one hour, I walked away with a two year deal,

856
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 2: which I'd never heard of, and I think it is

857
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: to this day. It may be the only two year deal.

858
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 1: Almost impossible.

859
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, even successful shows, right, they only go one year,

860
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: you know, because you know, God forbid, they take a chance. Well,

861
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: this guy had balls, man, and I will respect this

862
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 2: guy forever. I'm so glad the success he's had. But

863
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: we turned out to read the first show on Netflix fantastic.

864
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: So I watched History Happen twice. You know, HBO with

865
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: their extraordinary creativity becoming the go to a place for

866
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: adult content and then Netflix turning it into an international concept.

867
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: You're developing any other TV now or no?

868
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 2: I got five scripts? Yeah, I'm looking at and I

869
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: want to I want to do something because you know,

870
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: we had another tour. We were going to tour us

871
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 2: here and then once again we're not. So I've got

872
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: to go. I want to get back on TV. I

873
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 2: really do.

874
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time. And I

875
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: want to say, you know, you tell your story and

876
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: you talk about your nature that you doubt things, your purity,

877
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: your honesty, your integrity, whatever, But all these things that

878
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: guided you through your music career and then on into

879
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: your acting career. They were responsible for your success, you know,

880
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: to Thine own self be true, you clinging to your

881
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: beliefs made you who you are. When I think about

882
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: your career, made you who you are as a musician

883
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: and led to the amount of success you had as

884
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: a musician and as an actor. You know, you said

885
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: you were like, I'm going to play this part the

886
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,959
Speaker 1: only way that I feel comfortable with and the rest

887
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: is history. So you in the to Thine own self

888
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:53,479
Speaker 1: Be True department, It's really paid off for you, big time,

889
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:54,359
Speaker 1: big time.

890
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,399
Speaker 2: So thank you. I don't know if you have any

891
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: choice in these matters to tell your truth. You know,

892
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: we all like to pretend in charge, you know, and

893
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: making all of these decisions. But I sometimes wonder about

894
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: that it was.

895
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: The right move. T. I get to say that to

896
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 1: you now. It was the right move to your career choices,

897
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: It was the right move. T.

898
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 2: Thanks man. Good talking to you, my.

899
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: Friend Stephen van ZANDT. This is I Don't Want to

900
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: Go Home. From the album Soul Fire Live by Little

901
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 1: Stephen and the Disciples of Soul by Malec Baldwin. Here's

902
00:47:29,440 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: the thing that's brought to you by iHeart Radios.

903
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 3: For you.

904
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: Not long, because I've only had tried.

905
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: To recoping tousing star

906
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: Whatever