1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate, super genius, legitimate. He says. 6 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 2: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: be different. 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 3: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 3: on him. Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 3: done nothing. 12 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome to Elon Ink, 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, December tenth. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: I'm your host, David Poppadopolis. This past week saw Elon 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: Musk work his relationship with Donald Trumpell at home and abroad. 16 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: He went to Capitol Hill to lobby lawmakers with his 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: partner in Doje Vivek Ramaswami late last week, and then 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: joined the President elect in Paris for the reopening of 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: the Notre Dame Cathedral to break down how he's spending 20 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 2: his political capital. We are joined by BusinessWeek's man in DC, 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: Josh Green. 22 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: Hey there, Josh, good to be with you, and. 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: We have our regulars, Max Chafkin and Dana Hall. Hey Max, 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 2: Hey David, Dana, Hi David. Then we're gonna take another 25 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: look at how the Trump trade continues to send Elon's 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 2: companies to dizzying new heights, and Max at Long Long 27 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: Last thinks he has finally spotted a new feud brewing. 28 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: It's about time, pal, But hold on, hold on, not 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 2: quite yet, Max. You're gonna tell us all about that 30 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: feud later, Josh. So, On Friday, Elon took himself and 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: of course his toddler child X, to Capitol Hill. Do 32 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: we have a sense of how the meetings when, and 33 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: what came out of it all? Yeah. 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 5: I mean, my you know, my impression just from talking 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 5: to people around town is this was really kind of 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 5: introductory stuff, right. They weren't putting on the green ash 37 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 5: shades and sort of breaking down what exactly they want 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 5: to cut in the budget. But Elon I think has 39 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 5: caused more of an uproar in lobbying circles in Washington 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 5: than he has necessarily in government circles. Because anytime a 41 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 5: new administration comes in, you know, businesses get very excited, 42 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 5: some of them get very worried, and the fact that 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 5: we now have this, this kind of doge collaboration is 44 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 5: something new that I think a lot of a lot 45 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 5: of businesses are worried about. And so there's been a 46 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 5: flurry of lobbyists trying to figure out, Okay, any normal administration, 47 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 5: you know, we'd be trying to make relationships with the 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 5: Trump guys, how do we get a line into Elon Musk? 49 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: And how do we essentially lobby Elon Musk himself? 50 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: Do you tag him on X that's how you get 51 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: to him. 52 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: That'll be one hundred thousand dollars. 53 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 5: Gosh, yeah, but just to speak to a lobbyist sardonically, like, 54 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 5: it's not like you can book an appointment with him 55 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 5: right the way you can, like with a congressman or 56 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 5: somebody in the White House. And so some of the 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: thinking has been, well, look, we should start booking our 58 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 5: CEOs on like Joe Rogan's podcast or some other kind 59 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 5: of right leaning podcasts that Elon might listen to or 60 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 5: get excited about. 61 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: Maybe that's a new way to come. 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 4: So, Josh, this is. 63 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: Like when you wanted to speak to Trump and Trump 64 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 2: at one point, oh, you'd have to like go on 65 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: Fox or something like that. Maybe you will again. 66 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 5: Yeah, people would like buy ads just in the Palm 67 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 5: Beach market for Fox News and hopes that Trump would 68 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 5: would see that ad. 69 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 70 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 5: I do think there's a similar dynamic here with Elon. 71 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 5: People don't know what to make of him, but they 72 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 5: know enough businesses do to know that they probably don't 73 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 5: want to wind up in his crosshairs. And so the 74 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 5: thinking among lobbyists is like, what can we do to 75 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 5: ensure that that doesn't happen? 76 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: Now, Max, I know that you have long been unsure 77 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: at just how much the Great Doge Committee managed to 78 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: get done in terms of of redoing government and cutting spending, 79 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: and the question has always been what kind of leverage 80 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: do they actually have? And something that I was in 81 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: reading up in the aftermath of those meetings that I 82 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 2: saw came out was that Monsr's Musk and Ramswami were 83 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: apparently pretty blunt and forthright and saying to lawmakers, Hey, 84 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: if you guys drag your feet on what we're trying 85 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 2: to get done, we're going to publicly shame you. Perhaps 86 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: that is a lever that they can pull and get 87 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 2: something done. 88 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 6: I mean, Joshua says this too, but I mean I 89 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 6: think that is leverage, and of course Elon Musk has 90 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 6: has said himself that there will be not just public shaming, 91 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 6: but perhaps funding of primary challenges and creating actual costs 92 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 6: to lawmakers who oppose, you know, what they see as 93 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 6: Trump's agenda or whatever. On the other hand, like appropriations 94 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 6: are really important in Congress. Anytime you're cutting spending, like 95 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 6: you're potentially creating like a very pod constituency like whoever 96 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 6: is whichever company is in that district or whatever, whoever, 97 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 6: who whoever represents that district. 98 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 4: Like it's going to be. It's not going to be 99 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 4: like they can just do whatever they want. 100 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh, will they will? They react and respond to 101 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 2: that kind of pressure. 102 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 5: I think to a degree, having that kind of spotlight 103 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 5: might be might be uncomfortable for a Republican member of Congress. 104 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 5: But you know, as I've written in BusinessWeek, Elon is 105 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,359 Speaker 5: already enemy number one for Democrats. So the idea, you know, 106 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 5: the thought of Elon criticizing a Democratic congressman is not 107 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 5: something that strikes terror in their hearts. I think the 108 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 5: challenge that the Doge guys are going to have is 109 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 5: sort of twofold number one. They don't have any actual 110 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 5: power other than other than the power to sort of 111 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 5: publicly pressure that Elon was talking about. They need Congress 112 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 5: to act, and we now have Republicans now don't have 113 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 5: the narrowest majority in the House of Representatives that they've 114 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 5: had in my lifetime. So he is literally going to 115 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 5: have to bring along just about every single Republican congressman 116 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 5: on board to get anything done. And as anybody who's 117 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 5: paid any attention to Washington the last decade or so, 118 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 5: that's like hurting cats under good side circumstances without the 119 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 5: kind of Elon chaos element injecting itself into the process. 120 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 5: But I think the other problem, this is something that 121 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,039 Speaker 5: Max alluded to, is I think in the abstract, Republicans 122 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,359 Speaker 5: are all in on the idea to slash government spending 123 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 5: and cut this, and that the problem is going to 124 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 5: be when they start enumerting if those cuts hit in 125 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 5: Republican districts. It's not so much the companies that are 126 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 5: going to get mad, they will, but it's going to 127 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 5: be the elected officials themselves. Right, if you go in 128 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 5: elon Is City wants to cut the Department of Education. 129 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 5: If you go into any rural Republican district, and wipe 130 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 5: out like let's say, two hundred teachers that Republican promistant 131 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 5: probably isn't going to get re elected, and so they're 132 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 5: going to put their foot down there. 133 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 3: I think that Elon has maybe a naive idea of 134 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: what he's actually going to be able to accomplish, even 135 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 3: through public pressure against some of these Republicans who might 136 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 3: dig in their heels once they see their own jobs 137 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 3: and livelihoods threatened. 138 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 6: One thing also, and we learned this, you know, during 139 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 6: the presidential campaign, like Elon Musk's politics, although they are 140 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 6: very trumpy, are not necessarily perfectly aligned with Donald Trump 141 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 6: or with Republicans, and like they're you. 142 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: Know, the CEO of the world's most valuable. 143 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 6: Cutting the Department of Education, that that seems like low 144 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 6: hanging fruit compared to some of the other things that 145 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 6: he has hinted at or suggested at. You know, there 146 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 6: was there, there have been these like weird alliances, you know. 147 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders tweeted, oh yeah, this is going to be great. 148 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 6: We're gonna cut the Defense Department budget. And Elon is 149 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 6: kind of is engaging with Bernie and and it's like, okay, 150 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 6: you know, good luck with that one well. 151 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: Maximum, I mean it's something that's come up in the 152 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: last twenty four hours as a way to get Doge rolling. 153 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: And I got to say, if and one hundred percent 154 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: behind this is permanent daylight savings time. They're on this right, 155 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: you know, Josh, this is going through. This is gonna happen. 156 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 2: No more falling back in you know November and sit sunshine, 157 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: well not quite sunshine, but later sunsets throughout the year. 158 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 2: This is dumb on who you can't be against that. 159 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 4: No, we should get rid of day light saving time. 160 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 6: I feel like we all agree that that's but uh, 161 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 6: but you know, I do think there's something interesting happening, 162 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 6: which is in addition to public shaming, he's kind of 163 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 6: created this space for people to propose stuff that's either 164 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 6: ambitious or just weird and kind of kooky. 165 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 4: I saw another. 166 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 6: I think it was a democratic politician trying to get 167 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 6: dog's attention to get rid of the penny, which like 168 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 6: again or and to replace dollar bills with dollar. 169 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: Way does the penny will disappear at some point? Do 170 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: you own any pennies? 171 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: They're like in my like sock drawers, the taking a jar. 172 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: I feel like that the Dose's biggest impact right now 173 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: has just been striking fear into the heart of federal workers, 174 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: right I mean, in their Wall Street Journal up ed 175 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: Elon and Vivek kind of laid out this whole idea 176 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: that like everyone should be back in the office five 177 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: days a week. And Elon has been hammering over and 178 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: over again about how, you know, why are federal workers 179 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: still working from home? And why are all these federal 180 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: offices empty? And if people don't want to come back 181 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: to the office, then they can just quit and put 182 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: in for early retirement. And I think that the rto 183 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: aspect of this is something that they could really pressure 184 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: agencies to do, or that with Congress's help, they could 185 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: pressure agencies to do. And that is something that you 186 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: know that that could have a real that could have 187 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: a real impact. And then you have to imagine that 188 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: all of the political appointees are you know, either resigning 189 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: or they're they're about to resign. But then the civil staff, 190 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's like if you've been at the EPA 191 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: for thirty years, like what do you do now? Do 192 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: you like stay there and stay quiet and try to 193 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: like gum up the works and like protect what you 194 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: can or do you run for the exits. I mean, 195 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna see like real wholesale shifts and a lot 196 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: of these agencies. 197 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,839 Speaker 2: Now, Josh on the remote work thing, because in general, 198 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 2: I would say from what I've been able to gather, 199 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: there weren't a whole lot of nitty gritty specifics in 200 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: these In the meeting on Friday, it was sort of 201 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 2: more broad brush kind of conceptual stuff. But that was 202 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 2: something that indeed came up, was this idea that you 203 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: will do an end. You'll bring an end to remote work, 204 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 2: allowing federal employees to work remotely, indeed inducing some to quit. 205 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 2: And then as this theory goes, or as this scambit 206 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 2: would go, you then consolidate real estate and sell off 207 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: vacant buildings. Yeah. 208 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 5: Look, I mean there's some good sense to sort of 209 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 5: what Elon is proposing there, and I actually think that 210 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 5: he would have a number of Democratic allies in Washington 211 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 5: on the idea of ending right to work. I work 212 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 5: in Bloomberg and downtown DC, and it has been like 213 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 5: a ghost town since COVID. You know, businesses have shuttered, 214 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 5: restaurants have shuttered. You see about half the people around here. 215 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 5: The city's budget, it is, you know, in misery because 216 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 5: they don't have the kind of traffic down here that 217 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 5: they once did. There's a lot of resentment among people 218 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 5: that work in the private sector here who can't just 219 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 5: do work from home all the time. So you know, 220 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 5: look there's some adjustments. I guess we can throw daylight 221 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 5: savings time in the hopper. It might make a lot 222 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 5: of that might make a. 223 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: Lot of sense. 224 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I wouldn't write it off entirely, but yeah, Look, 225 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 5: if Elon and Vevey can sort of settle on things 226 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 5: where there's a clear constituency where they can build a 227 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 5: political coalition, maybe even in the case of this defense 228 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 5: spending one that includes a Democrat like Bernie Sanders, although 229 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 5: I'm skeptical that that's going to get over the finish line. 230 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: That's really the trick to the way these commissions work. 231 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: There's a long history of what's happening with DOJE, where 232 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 3: an administration will bring in businessmen to sit down and 233 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: apply their expertise to the federal budget. I did some 234 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 3: research and it goes all the way back to Theodore 235 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: Roosevelt in nineteen oh five. They've had people kind of 236 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 3: come in try and get the books the accounts in order, 237 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 3: you know, and more often than not, those projects fail 238 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 3: or they mostly fail. And so that's kind of what 239 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 3: I'm expecting to happen here with DOGE, but with Republicans 240 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 3: in complete control of Congress, with Elon having the megaphone, 241 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: with President elect Trump presumably on board, I do expect 242 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 3: that they'll get at least some token victories, whether that's 243 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 3: you know, wiping out a part of the federal workforce, 244 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: bringing everybody back to work, you know, maybe consolidating a 245 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: couple sub subagencies into one and saving some money. 246 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: Two trillion in savings a year, which is what they're 247 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: talking about. That that ain't happening. 248 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that's that's it's not gonna happen. I 249 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 3: actually geeked out on this a little bit. 250 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 5: The two most recent example is and Ronald Reagan in 251 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,239 Speaker 5: nineteen eighty two put together this thing called a Grace Commission. 252 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 3: They brought in Peter Grace, with the CEO of WR. 253 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 3: Grace and Company, big chemical company, had his his sort 254 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 3: of Doge of the eighties, and they came up in 255 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: twenty five hundred proposals for cutting the federal government. They 256 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: were trying to cut about five hundred billion dollars over 257 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 3: three years, a lot of money for back then, and 258 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: they cut, they wound up, they won. 259 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 5: The CBO audited this after the fact. They wound up 260 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 5: cutting less than seventy billion dollars over five years, which 261 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,560 Speaker 5: is one point four percent of the federal budget. So 262 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 5: that gives you an idea of what a kind of 263 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 5: sober republican business leader in the nineteen eighties could accomplish. 264 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 4: Part of the. 265 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 6: Challenge here is it's not clear what DOGE is trying 266 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 6: to do. We've heard different goals articulate at a different times. 267 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 6: So so you brought up one David, which is to 268 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 6: cut two trillion dollars or some huge number from the 269 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 6: federal budget. Another is just to make government more efficient 270 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 6: and in the sense of not necessarily immediately cutting you know, 271 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 6: huge cost but like setting it up for success, because 272 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 6: like and I think the work from home thing would 273 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 6: would probably fit more easily into that bracket rather than 274 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 6: like instant cost savings. It's not going to be there's 275 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 6: not going to be a huge and met mediate cost 276 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 6: savings of laying a bunch of people off. 277 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 3: I don't think. 278 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 6: And and so or you know, not not on the 279 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 6: two trillion dollars scale anyway. And then there's this third 280 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 6: idea which Howard Lutnik has brought up at various times. 281 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 6: And Elon Musk lutt the Commerce the Commerce Secretary designee, 282 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 6: the person Trump has has said is going to run 283 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 6: the Commerce Department and who was a co chair of 284 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 6: Trump's transition. But anyway, this is third idea, which is 285 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 6: that Elon Musk is just going to create better software 286 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 6: for the federal government, sort of like let's just like 287 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 6: bring in some smart software engineers and like they're gonna 288 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 6: like that. 289 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: Seeing the other day about how crappy government computer he. 290 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 4: Was sort of saying he's going to be the head 291 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 4: of Ice. 292 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: Probably it must be Witch shows he right. 293 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: By the way, he's not wrong about any of this. 294 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 5: I mean, it is it is a like there's there's 295 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 5: government software that was like programmed in the eighties that 296 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 5: doesn't even exist anymore, but there's sort of like a 297 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 5: few loan engineers on hand to like fix it. 298 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's appalling. 299 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 5: If he could actually a accomplish something on that front, 300 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 5: he would be doing a great public service. But again, 301 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 5: raising my hand, here a big skeptic that that that's 302 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 5: going to wind up being the effect of this. 303 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: The other thing I want to I want to caution 304 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: about is that you're going to likely see bloat in 305 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: certain agencies. Like so Trump campaigned on immigration and securing 306 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: the border and deporting you know, fifteen million undocumented workers. 307 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: So how does that program, if it comes to pass, 308 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: actually get elected. You're going to need to have You're 309 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: going to potentially need to hire more border patrol agents 310 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: and more you know, people with ICE and DHS and 311 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: so I just imagine that certain departments are gonna are 312 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: going to grow under Trump. 313 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 2: To show and for sure there will definitely be some 314 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: There will definitely be some contradictions there in that sense, 315 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 2: there's no doubt there are going to be some agencies 316 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: Dana that that. 317 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 3: I actually disagree with that. Can I tell you guys 318 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: that sure? 319 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 2: Please do Yeah. 320 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 5: I mean, going back to Reagan in the eighties, there's 321 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 5: been this pressure among politicians of both parties to shrink government. 322 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 5: And the way that politicians and both parties get around 323 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 5: this is by outsourcing things to the private sector. So 324 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 5: I've been doing a little bit of reporting on how 325 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 5: this Grand Deportation Plan would would would work. Stephen Miller, 326 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 5: one of the presidents are incoming president's top assistant, who's 327 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 5: who's really kind of driving this deportation idea, has talked about, 328 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 5: you know, building camps to house all these people in 329 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 5: and in speaking the Republicans, they're not they're not planning 330 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 5: on having government workers build these camps. 331 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: It's going to be like Halliburton or something like that. 332 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 5: So the budgets for these departments will certainly expand, to 333 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 5: Danna's point, but I think actually what they're going to 334 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 5: do is hire a lot of people in the private sector. 335 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 5: And I think that sort of goes to Elon's idea 336 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 5: that you know, government bureaucrats or dummies who can't accomplish anything, 337 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 5: but you know, the the creative destruction and energy of 338 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 5: the private sector can help to achieve goals. 339 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 2: And you've definitely seen that, by the way, because part 340 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: of the Trump trade has been a surge in the 341 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: share prices, the stock prices some of these private prisons. Okay, 342 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 2: but we need to go abroad for a second. You know, 343 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: Musk accompanying Trump to Paris for the reopening of Notre Dame, 344 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 2: and then you know recently at mar A Lago. Musk 345 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: was there with Trump when when he hosted the leader 346 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: of Hungary, Victor Orbent. You know, Max, we've talked about 347 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 2: geopolitical Musk before, but man, I know Marco Rubio is 348 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: going to by name, be the next Secretary of State. 349 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 4: But Cheeze we've talked on this podcast. 350 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 6: Elon Musk, you know, has relationships with a lot of 351 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 6: the Dan is always pointing this out, but you know 352 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 6: has relationships with a lot of these people. He and 353 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 6: Georgia Maloney, you know, the leader of Italy, have a 354 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 6: have a friendship that that appears to be, you know, 355 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 6: really solid. He's you know, he's talked to McCrone. You know, 356 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 6: he's somebody who likes this. And I also like he's Hey, 357 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 6: he's the first buddy, I guess. The My takeaway from 358 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 6: this this little trip is that that status which we've 359 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 6: been on the lookout, like we've been on I have 360 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 6: been on feud watch from November fifth to see any 361 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 6: signs of any kind of fracturing. And and look, it's 362 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 6: that relationship. The relationship between Elon Musk and Trump is 363 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 6: still solid. That's that's my takeaway from this trip. 364 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I sort of think we talked about geopolitical Elon. 365 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: I think of Elon as like a trans state actor, right, 366 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: Like he has relationships that transcend the United States government. 367 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: He knows you know, Bolsonaro and Malay and Orbon and 368 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: Maloney and Macron on his own because he's talked to 369 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: them about everything from population control and birth declining birth 370 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: rates to like space and you know, space programs and so. 371 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: But for him to be at Notre Dame, you know, 372 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: and he was like posting photographs of the you know, 373 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: video of the cathedral on his ex account, it was 374 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,640 Speaker 1: almost like he you know, he was there with other 375 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: heads of state, and it remind it was just sort 376 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: of you know, you see this this sort of cathedral 377 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: full of government officials from all around the world, and 378 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: then there is Elon and no JD. 379 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 3: Vance. 380 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: It was just very striking. It's like his his role 381 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 1: and the Trump administration is really being cemented at these 382 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: you know, key kind of photo op moments. 383 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 6: This is why you put two hundred and fifty million 384 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 6: dollars into a presidential campaign, because you get to go 385 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 6: to the cool. 386 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 4: Reopening of notice how much money did JD. 387 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 2: Van's putting in? 388 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 6: And also like he is like, this is something that 389 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 6: he stands to gain from this, whatever happens with Trump 390 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 6: right like this, this is like an opportunity to sell himself, 391 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 6: to sell starlink to you know, sell whatever other tunnels 392 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 6: to heads of state, to continue to protect and project 393 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,120 Speaker 6: his you know, business influence. 394 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: Josh, what's your read though about just how strong and 395 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,719 Speaker 2: solid that relationship is between Musk and Trump. 396 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 3: You know, I've been surprised. 397 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: I was very much expecting the feud too, just based 398 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 5: on Trump's history with people who try and elbow their 399 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 5: way into the spotlight. But one one factor, I think 400 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 5: because I was talking to somebody really close to Trump 401 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 5: down in mar A Lago who said, you know, Trump 402 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 5: has really been checked out of this whole process, Like 403 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 5: he doesn't really want to go to Washington. 404 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 3: He likes spinning mar A Lago. 405 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 5: He's going to spend summers in his club in Bedminster, 406 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 5: and everything that you see kind of happening. He's just 407 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 5: sort of, you know, letting the mice run around loose. 408 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 5: And Elon, I think is one of those people. I 409 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 5: think that Trump also loves the fact that he's surrounded 410 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 5: by rich people and that Elon is the richest person, 411 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,959 Speaker 5: Like I had not appreciated the degree to which that 412 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 5: matters to Trump's psyche. And somebody published the other day 413 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 5: like a list of like a bunch of his cabinet 414 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 5: appointees and what they're like, twenty billionaires, forty billionaires something 415 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 5: like that. 416 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's shocking the amount of wealth is there. 417 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,040 Speaker 5: But Trump is taken now to bragging about this in 418 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 5: private meetings, saying, you know, he had Larry Ellison down 419 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 5: there for a meeting. He said, Yah, I got the 420 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 5: two richest guys in the world right here and there 421 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 5: for Trump. And so as long as Elon's presence strokes 422 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 5: Trump's ego, I think he's got, you know, a place 423 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 5: in the inner circle. 424 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 3: There's a lot run Yeah, but Trump is Trump. Eventually 425 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: he seems to break with everybody around him. 426 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 6: It's also clear that like there are people in Trump's 427 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 6: inner c goal who do not appreciate having the competition, 428 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 6: and like that's a potential that's a potential vector for conflict. Also, 429 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 6: just like Elon and vivike Ramaswami, I mentioned those three goals, 430 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 6: there's also like a fourth goal, which is like vivike 431 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 6: Ramaswami I think has has political ambitions and you know, 432 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 6: maybe it maybe it means running for governor of Ohio 433 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 6: or something like that. So which, by the way, Doge 434 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 6: conveniently ends like just in time for that. 435 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,719 Speaker 2: Josh, we appreciate you joining us and we will have 436 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 2: you back on again soon. 437 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 5: Oh it was a pleasure, thanks guys. 438 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: So Max, Dana, we also need to talk about how 439 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 2: the Trump trade continues to go swimmingly well for all 440 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: things Elon Musk. The Tesla stock Dana is now up 441 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 2: give or take fifty some odd percent since the election, 442 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 2: and earlier this morning was within a whisker of a 443 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: record high. SpaceX is soaring, Max. I believe there is 444 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: a offer a sale coming up soon that's going to 445 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 2: put a new valuation on it. 446 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 4: Correct. 447 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 6: Yeah, we've reported that they're talking about a three hundred 448 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 6: and fifty billion dollars valuation on a tender offer that 449 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 6: is an offer to buy existing shareholders out. I'm thinking 450 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 6: probably a lot of early employees or early investors. Now, 451 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 6: remember SpaceX is a privately held company, although it's a 452 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 6: privately held company that has been privately held for a 453 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 6: very long time and raised venture capital funding. So you 454 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 6: have you have people, you have early investors who periodically 455 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 6: want to be able to sell stock the way they 456 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 6: would if we're a public company, and so you have 457 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 6: these periodic tender offers. And three hundred and fifty billion 458 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 6: is a lot bigger than the last offer. I think 459 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 6: the last one, which was just not even a year ago, 460 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 6: was two hundred and ten billion. 461 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 4: So you're seeing a huge markup is sixty percent, you know, honestly. 462 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 6: Roughly in line with the price increase that we've seen 463 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 6: at Tesla Motors, and I think the case here as 464 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 6: one hundred percent. 465 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: It's way clear, like you totally, so walk us through. 466 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 2: What is the why am I paying suddenly this huge 467 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: premium for SpaceX. 468 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,479 Speaker 6: You're paying the huge premium because SpaceX management and Elon 469 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 6: Musk and probably a lot of investors feel like their 470 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 6: prospects are better under president like Trump. SpaceX, as we've 471 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 6: talked about many times, is a it's a rock company. 472 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 6: It operates this internet business, but what it really is 473 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 6: is a large defense contractor. So it's its biggest customer 474 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 6: is the US government. There are lots of ways that 475 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 6: already the US government buys a ton from from SpaceX, 476 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 6: but there are ways that the Trump administration has sort 477 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 6: of already proposed to give SpaceX even more money, and 478 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 6: not only so you could talk about starlink. There are 479 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 6: these potential subsidies. Trump has already picked or designated chair 480 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 6: of the FCC who's very pro Elon Musk and who seems, 481 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 6: you know, poised to funnel some of that money for 482 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 6: rural broadband his way. 483 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 4: There's the possibility of a MARS program. 484 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 6: And then there's just the general sense that if Elon 485 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 6: Musk is going up against Boeing or Lockheed, he's going 486 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 6: to have a better argument today than he did just 487 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 6: a couple of yeks. 488 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: And I believe max that SpaceX is now the most 489 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 2: valuable private company or the most valuable startup in the world, 490 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 2: something that I think the. 491 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 4: Most valuable privately held company in the world. 492 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 6: Although again, like these distinctions are not as like meaningful 493 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 6: as you might think, because SpaceX has kind of operated 494 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 6: as a pseudo public right it's been for a long time. 495 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 6: It's very different from from like what we normally think 496 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 6: of as like startup, startup. 497 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, fine, fair. Having said that, if there were ever 498 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 2: a time to actually take this company public, my god, 499 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: I would think it's right now, right, Like. 500 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: I totally disagree. Why okay, sorry, Elon Musk does not 501 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: really like being this a public company CEO. Remember in 502 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen he tried to take Tesla private. That failed, 503 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: But there is far more regulatory oversight when you are 504 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: a public company. You go public when you need to 505 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: raise money from the capital markets. Elon doesn't really need 506 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: to raise money right now. He's got plenty of private 507 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: investors willing to sync in. I mean, they've talked about 508 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: potentially spinning Starlink off and having an IPO for Starlink, 509 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: but SpaceX itself, I would not be surprised if Elon 510 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: keeps that private. He likes to run private companies. 511 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 2: I would just say this, if there's ever a time 512 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 2: to sell it, it's now. I e. 513 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 3: You may be right. 514 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 2: Maybe Elon being Elon, he says, I don't ever want 515 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 2: to sell it. But for the love of God, I mean, 516 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 2: right now, there is a frenzy around all of his 517 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 2: companies that you know, you know, Max, you sell high, 518 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 2: are not selling high right now? 519 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 6: Now. I think what Dan is saying though, is that 520 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 6: like Elon has a special has special relationship with SpaceX, 521 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 6: and this is a company. As much as we've talked 522 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 6: about this ongoing pay dispute, which is partly a dispute 523 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 6: over equity and how much control Elon has over Tesla, 524 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 6: he wants to run as his as the as the CEO, 525 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 6: as the only decider, and you know that changes if 526 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 6: you're public. 527 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 4: I do think. 528 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 2: Starling, as he's seeing again and again with Keesla and 529 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 2: the lawsuit in Delaware and all. 530 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 6: That we should keep an eye on Starlink because he 531 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 6: has as Dani is suggesting, like he's floated that as 532 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 6: a possibility. It's I don't think it's clear that Starlink's 533 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,239 Speaker 6: financials look that great yet, and that might be one 534 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 6: reason why we haven't seen an IPO yet. I think 535 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 6: it's also worth keeping an eye on some of these 536 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 6: other companies, right, you know, The Boring Company is another 537 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 6: one that I would be. 538 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: We haven't talked about the Boring Company in months. 539 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 6: I would be shocked if there aren't people who are 540 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 6: in that company or work there who are not talking 541 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 6: about increasing the evaluation there because because clearly that is 542 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 6: another company that could benefit from Trump. And actually Musk 543 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 6: suggested on Twitter very recently, maybe it was overnight that 544 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 6: that maybe the boring company would build a tunnel from 545 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 6: New York to London. Now my tunnel match. He was 546 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 6: gonna do it for one thousand x cheaper than the competition. 547 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 6: But even so, that would be a pretty big contract. 548 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: So far, haven't they only done less? 549 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 4: It's like a mile or two in Las Vegas, so 550 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 4: definitely a long. 551 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: Way to go. I guess you got the proof of concept. 552 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 6: I should say, to be fair, maybe maybe's like several 553 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 6: miles in Las Vegas. There they are expanding, but it's 554 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 6: pretty small compared to New. 555 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 3: York to London. 556 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 6: But I really think the one we should be looking 557 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 6: at most seriously is Twitter X because that has outside 558 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 6: investors it. You know, there are these other companies that 559 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 6: it could combine with. Like I think there are definitely 560 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 6: bankers out there who are thinking about that as a 561 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 6: possible you know, take public via some sort of transaction, 562 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 6: whether it's an IPO or some sort of you know, 563 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 6: dare I say a merger with truth. 564 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 2: Social That's not happening. You have to stop pushing that idea. 565 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: I mean again, I think that Musk is very frustrated 566 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: by being a public CEO. And I guess in the 567 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: case of X or Twitter, like he wouldn't be the CEO, 568 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: it would be Linda, right. 569 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: But he has run he is. 570 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: He's running a public company, he's running private companies. He's 571 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: got six companies, five of them are private. I think 572 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: that if he ever took anything public, he would weigh 573 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: it very carefully about what's the upside And the main 574 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: reason why you go public is to raise money from 575 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: the capital markets. I think that Elon is kind of 576 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: a unicorn and that he doesn't really need to go 577 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: public at this juncture, at this phase in his career 578 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: to raise money. He's got scores of longtime friends and 579 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: vcs and banks and foreign funds and like sovereign wealth 580 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: funds all clamoring to get into his businesses. And so 581 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: unless there's like a real financial need, like Okay, we 582 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,199 Speaker 1: need to raise five billion dollars to go to Mars, Like, 583 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: I just don't see the impetus for why what the 584 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: upside would be for him going public. 585 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: Dana, you need to leave us, so jump and we'll 586 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 2: see us soon. See you next week, Okay, Max, So 587 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: you finally, dude, you got a feud or you think. 588 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 6: You got a feed you watch it's not a feud 589 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 6: warning or evacuation order. 590 00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 4: It's it's just a watch. 591 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 6: I meant earlier, the you know, ongoing feud watch that 592 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 6: is Elon Musk and Donald Trump. I want to bring 593 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 6: up a second one, which is Elon Musk and Ron DeSantis, 594 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 6: the governor of Florida and potential rival to Trump. 595 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 4: Well, so Elon. 596 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 6: Musk's America Pack, the Political Action Committee that we've talked about, 597 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 6: actually employed a bunch of people from Ron DeSantis's orbit. Now, 598 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 6: at the same time, you've had this question that's like 599 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 6: sort of hangover Republican politics, over who is going to 600 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 6: be the centertor who's going to replace Marco Rubio if 601 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 6: he's indeed confirmed Secretary of State. There have been names 602 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 6: floated that are sort of DeSantis allies. And then there 603 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 6: is Laura Trump, who just stepped down from the RNC 604 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 6: and who Elon Musk has endorsed. So again it feels 605 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 6: like maybe Trump and DeSantis, assuming they're able to work 606 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 6: this out, this feud will just peter out the like 607 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 6: a sort of limp tropical storm somewhere in the in 608 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 6: the Atlantic Ocean. But it does feel like Elon and DeSantis, 609 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 6: and really Elon and these other potential Trump fig Trump 610 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 6: rivals are worth paying attention to. 611 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 4: So that's one that I'm watching, all right. 612 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 2: I just got to say that, having waited weeks, maybe 613 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: months for a feud, I don't know, I'm not I'm 614 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 2: slightly underwhelmed. 615 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 4: I'm sorry. 616 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 2: I just thought, I dude, like, after months, I just 617 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 2: I just assumed you were going to be come with 618 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 2: something bigg or bolder than like maybe possibly one in 619 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 2: ten shot. Okay, we move on. We go to the mailbag. 620 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 2: The mailbag is going to be great. So we've gotten 621 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: some mail sent into our email address Elon Inc. 622 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 6: At Bloomberg dot net. Please keep sending in questions suggestions. 623 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 6: We're really enjoying getting them. Even the hostile there are 624 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 6: joyful to read. 625 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: There have been plenty of hostile ones. 626 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 4: And we got some great suggestions for bumper stickers. 627 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: In my opinion, those that have come in specifically on Elon. 628 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: The winner so far comes in from a gentleman by 629 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 2: the name of Matt oh And it was I bought 630 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: this tesla before Elon bought Trump, which is pretty clever. 631 00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's definitely clever. 632 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 6: Or I feel like journalistically, you know, we would add 633 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 6: if Bloomberg would not put that on the headline of 634 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 6: a story. But as a as a as a quip, 635 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 6: I think it's you know, it's got something. I think 636 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 6: it's worth working with. I'm still open to other bumpers. 637 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 2: Whether there was a runner up, and I will that 638 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: I will name now, but absolutely positively keep keep the 639 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: bumper sticker ideas coming in, whether they be for the 640 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 2: show or they for whether they be for Elon himself. Okay, 641 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 2: so the runner up comes in from Brad and it 642 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 2: starts off with something that's you know, sort of unspeakable. 643 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 2: The FCC wouldn't wouldn't allow us to air it, but 644 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 2: it ends up with a simple but effective get over it. 645 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 4: I like that. Yeah, very that's a strong pro Elon message. 646 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: Pro Elon message. That's good. Like if you strip out 647 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 2: the front half, which we have to strip out again 648 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: here just because we can't we can't. 649 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 4: Speak like you put that on the back of your 650 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 4: cyber truck. 651 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: That's good. Max, As always, thanks for joining. 652 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. 653 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Anna Masa Rakas 654 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: is our editor and Rayhan Harmanci is our senior editor. 655 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 2: The idea for this very show also came from Rayhan Blake, 656 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 2: Maple's Handles Engineering and Ema Sanchez fact checks. Our supervising 657 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: producer is Magnus Hendrickson. The Elon Inc. Theme is written 658 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Subiira. Brendan Francis 659 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 2: Neinham is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman is the 660 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks as always to 661 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 2: our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm David Papadoppolis. 662 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 663 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 2: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.