Speaker 1: I have had sex with a guy who like he came,
Speaker 1: and I didn't even know he came because he was
Speaker 1: so dead silent, where you silent silent. There's been so
Speaker 1: much happening recently, and I've been consuming so much media
Speaker 1: that I feel like we should slow the brakes today
Speaker 1: a little bit and just talk about what we've been watching, reading,
Speaker 1: listening to, you know, really get into like a little
Speaker 1: a little key um what we're vibing. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, next time we'll we'll do another
Speaker 1: deep dive into a more nostalgic cultural object. But today
Speaker 1: we're you know, talking about what's going on at the moment,
Speaker 1: because this is like a virgin the show where we
Speaker 1: give yesterday's pop culture, and I do mean the pop
Speaker 1: culture from literally yesterday today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you,
Speaker 1: and I'm fran Toronto. How are you doing? Would you
Speaker 1: do this weekend? Um? Well, the weekend was great. I
Speaker 1: just like kind of spent the weekend indoors. I had
Speaker 1: people over for brunch. We watched ever After, I had people, well,
Speaker 1: I watched ever After recently too. Did you have fun?
Speaker 1: It was? It was great? Angelica Huston it's Oh. I
Speaker 1: thought I thought that she was one of those girls
Speaker 1: that like she's like, no, it's huston, okay, thank you?
Speaker 1: Um should we do and have our after episode? I
Speaker 1: don't maybe a Drew, a Drew Barrymore episode. I honestly
Speaker 1: think it's a Drew. It's a Drew episode for sure,
Speaker 1: because ever after it's amazing. But to me, it would
Speaker 1: have to be a larger discussion about like Cinderella adapt
Speaker 1: weights or something. You know what would be good though,
Speaker 1: is a fairy Dale adaptation episode? Yes, because I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot because then we could do like into
Speaker 1: the Woods, we could do like I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think that opens up a lot of things. Actually, even
Speaker 1: just Cinderella adaptations gives us like Brandy gives us the
Speaker 1: Cape Blanchet, Cinderella give Okay, well we're gonna work. Well
Speaker 1: we'll we'll chop it, we'll ChRI it. But anyways, ever
Speaker 1: after it was great. Angelica Houston was I mean, she
Speaker 1: was the whole movie. She I forgot how could anyone
Speaker 1: love a pebble in their shoe? Or when she was like,
Speaker 1: do not contribute to the silence unless you can improve it,
Speaker 1: I was like damn amazing actress. I think I really
Speaker 1: forgot how clever the whole movie is, how good the
Speaker 1: dialogue is. Um, how Drew really wear some ugly, ugly
Speaker 1: dresses in that movie? Also some gorgeous dresses. My favorite
Speaker 1: lasters is My favorite look of hers is when she
Speaker 1: goes to meet him in the abandoned castle and she's
Speaker 1: wearing like a like a red velvet number. I did
Speaker 1: not like all of her dress, says except for the
Speaker 1: last one. We will agree to degree. Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was isolated. People disagreed with me. That people that
Speaker 1: I was viewing with also disagreed with me. But I
Speaker 1: was just so maybe that means you have bad taste.
Speaker 1: You know, I actually have great taste. As I've said
Speaker 1: on the podcast, I've always had a great taste with
Speaker 1: some with some exceptions. But I was going to tell
Speaker 1: you just a few So Rose, what have you been
Speaker 1: like listening to consuming this weekend? Like? Have you just
Speaker 1: were you? I saw you were in Malibu? Question mark? Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: I went to the beach yesterday. We went to zooma
Speaker 1: beach and Malibu. You know, I'm like not really a
Speaker 1: beach girl. I'm a pool girl like you know, being
Speaker 1: from Florida. Um, but it was perfect beach day. We
Speaker 1: drove up there in the morning, We're there for a
Speaker 1: couple of hours and then like left by three pm,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, perfect for me. I cannot I
Speaker 1: cannot go to the beach with people who want to
Speaker 1: be there literally all day. Yeah, I know, but you
Speaker 1: are you are a Caucasian and you do need allies
Speaker 1: in that in that situation. But you know, we had
Speaker 1: we had a an umbrella, so I was able to
Speaker 1: be in the shade um an umbrella ella an umbrella
Speaker 1: la la a a. But I did get some son,
Speaker 1: do you have more freckles? Now? I do have a
Speaker 1: lot more freckles. But I also did use some of
Speaker 1: my weekend to catch up on some you know, cultural things.
Speaker 1: The big thing is f Y Island ended, and the
Speaker 1: twists were twisting. The twists were twisting, so spoilers for
Speaker 1: anyone watching. But f Boy Island ended, and the final
Speaker 1: twist was that Nikki Glazer revealed to the girls that
Speaker 1: instead of just either choosing a nice guy and getting
Speaker 1: to split the money with him, or choosing an f
Speaker 1: boy and the f boy having the ability to either
Speaker 1: split the money or take all of it. There was
Speaker 1: a third option where the women could choose themselves and
Speaker 1: keep all of them money, which I was gagged. I
Speaker 1: was screaming, shooting and hollering at a really good twist.
Speaker 1: I was hoping that they were all going to do it.
Speaker 1: That's the thing that was. Like, I mean, obviously it's
Speaker 1: reality TV that's been produced to the instagrae like This
Speaker 1: Girl is scripted during some parts, But like I I
Speaker 1: just don't understand anybody that would not choose a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, like even after taxes, that so much money, Like,
Speaker 1: come on us, after taxes is considerably less money, and
Speaker 1: zero dollars is no money. There's no money. Um so
Speaker 1: my I've already sent you a voice memo with all
Speaker 1: of my takes. But like, I think it's infuriating that
Speaker 1: Ms Mercedes did not take the hundred thousand dollars in dash.
Speaker 1: That would have been way more satisfying. It would have
Speaker 1: been up to our predictions. He is such a piece
Speaker 1: of ship and they're clearly not even going to last
Speaker 1: very long, so like why even a week? It's a charade,
Speaker 1: like Mercedes is putting on a charade of being a
Speaker 1: nice guy, and I hate him. I feel like he
Speaker 1: realized how bad he looked over over the course of
Speaker 1: the show and wanted to try to rehabilitate his image
Speaker 1: at the end. That's the worst part if you are
Speaker 1: on a reality TV show, Do not do not self analyze,
Speaker 1: do not self perceive, Like it just makes the whole
Speaker 1: thing worse. Like no self awareness, you should be a
Speaker 1: black mirror upon which, um, you know. I wished Louise
Speaker 1: was my favorite character from beginning to end, and I
Speaker 1: was kind of thinking she was going to turn out
Speaker 1: to be the f girl who took the money, but
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, it was Tamaris was the only one who
Speaker 1: picked herself and revealed herself to be an F girl,
Speaker 1: and I honestly, the clues were there all season. Obviously
Speaker 1: kind of showed she had said many times that she
Speaker 1: cheated before, she'd lied, before she was a player, that
Speaker 1: she dumps guys with no emotion like, so I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, good for her, and I kind of I
Speaker 1: loved actually the moment where they showed the guy crying
Speaker 1: and then as soon as he left, she was like,
Speaker 1: can I get makeup in here? That was so fucking
Speaker 1: funny because it was like the immediate switch, um from
Speaker 1: the I mean Tommy Boy, Poor Tommy Boy. Um the
Speaker 1: like FARTI trombone sounds that put underneath him. Tommy Boy
Speaker 1: will be fine. But another another incredible season of reality television. Truly,
Speaker 1: are you a Louise Tamaris or where are we both?
Speaker 1: To Maris's I'm definitely Tamaris. I think you're more of
Speaker 1: a Louise. Am I more of Louise Louise. The thing is,
Speaker 1: I will say at the I I really do cut
Speaker 1: and run like you're an f girl. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: you're not a girl, but you also are legitimately Louise.
Speaker 1: You are looking for love. Also on a trio Max,
Speaker 1: Harley Quinn came back. You know, friend and I have
Speaker 1: talked before about how Harley Quinn was one of our
Speaker 1: favorite shows of last year. It's back in its third
Speaker 1: season the Pandemic find. Yeah, we have both only watched
Speaker 1: the first episode, I think. Um. We talked about how
Speaker 1: we're both kind of saving it for like a Saturday
Speaker 1: morning cartoon SNAr um, So I just haven't gotten around
Speaker 1: to watching more of it. But in the first episode
Speaker 1: is great. It was Harley and Poison Ivy are together.
Speaker 1: Now they're on like they're going on like an international
Speaker 1: honeymoon funck fest. It's beautiful. It's the show remains so funny.
Speaker 1: I laugh out loud all the time it's starting, and
Speaker 1: it's starting with a kind of more emotional honest, the
Speaker 1: emotionally honest kind of plot points of like what's not
Speaker 1: going right in their relationship, the little clues about where
Speaker 1: their disconnects are, where their miscommunications are, which, like I
Speaker 1: kind of wish it would start with like the fun stuff,
Speaker 1: but like you know, the show is very layered, and
Speaker 1: I really I'm excited to see where it goes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't wait. I have to go in a little
Speaker 1: rant about another HBO show that is not good? Um,
Speaker 1: do you watch Westworld? Have you ever watched Westworld? No?
Speaker 1: I probably you know, as I always say, the next
Speaker 1: time I have the flu, I will definitely watch the
Speaker 1: first season, but just the first season. I would never
Speaker 1: watch more than watch only the first season, because the
Speaker 1: first season of Westworld was great, It was amazing. Even
Speaker 1: the second season of West World was had moments of
Speaker 1: brilliance and was otherwise, like the third season of rest
Speaker 1: World was rotted. Should have never happened. The fourth season,
Speaker 1: which is airing now, lured me back in somehow, making
Speaker 1: me think it would be good again. People were talking
Speaker 1: about it, and just every week has gotten worse and worse,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm losing my mind triasically. It's
Speaker 1: basically just like the Matrix now. And the thing that
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up is like, obviously I don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about like the particulars of the show,
Speaker 1: like it's very it's all very hetty and stupid, and
Speaker 1: like it's it's it's exactly as yes, it is exactly
Speaker 1: as dumb as it thinks it's smart, which is infuriating.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I've noticed is that, especially
Speaker 1: this season, there is so much suicide depicted on the show.
Speaker 1: Like the robots are constantly killing themselves. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: death doesn't death doesn't mean the same thing on the
Speaker 1: show because people are robots that can be brought back,
Speaker 1: but also the human characters are killing themselves, and it's
Speaker 1: at a point where it has become almost like fetishistic,
Speaker 1: the way that people are constantly killing themselves. And it's
Speaker 1: just something about it to me, and I'm not usually
Speaker 1: like the morality Police with with media, Like I'm like,
Speaker 1: go off, I want to see funked up should happen.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's just really weird and it actually
Speaker 1: is making me on comfortable what you yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: just so indulgent, like it doesn't really it's like for
Speaker 1: the sake of it, there's no asition to the violence.
Speaker 1: Yeah there. It really feels like there could have been
Speaker 1: a better storytelling choice to get kind of the same
Speaker 1: point across. That's such a bummer. I mean, I honestly
Speaker 1: getting sucked into a show is the worst. And I
Speaker 1: really appreciate when people are like just watched the first
Speaker 1: season because that's the only thing I would do with
Speaker 1: West World. Honestly, That's what I'm doing with Damages right now,
Speaker 1: which like I can't discuss well like well for another podcast,
Speaker 1: Like it's just the reason you need. The main reason
Speaker 1: I'm still watching West World is like a I do
Speaker 1: still kind of want to know how it how it ends,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it will get canceled after this season.
Speaker 1: There's no way with all the HBO stuff happening, like
Speaker 1: with the business things, that this show, which like literally
Speaker 1: four people are watching, will get renewed. But Also another
Speaker 1: reason why I watch it is because who weekly do
Speaker 1: recaps on their on their weekly Patreon episodes and they're
Speaker 1: really funny, and so I literally watched the episodes just
Speaker 1: so I have the context to listen to that fun
Speaker 1: at least, Yes, but funck Westworld. Um So, I have
Speaker 1: a movie recommendation for you that I really think you
Speaker 1: should watch. Um so we can discuss a little bit
Speaker 1: more at length in the future. There's this new movie
Speaker 1: out called Not Okay. It's on Hulu. It's stars Zoe Deutsch,
Speaker 1: who's like just one of those girlies, one of the girls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, she's I think she's an nepotism baby. And
Speaker 1: it's about this like a loser photo editor who works
Speaker 1: at sort of like a vice magazine analog and she
Speaker 1: really wants to be a writer, and like everyone in
Speaker 1: her office hates her in sort of a way that's
Speaker 1: almost like a caricature, Like they're like, you're a fucking loser,
Speaker 1: even though she's like hot and like is like almost
Speaker 1: like disgustingly on trend, like she has those like streaks
Speaker 1: that every girl had less year, the chunky rings, and
Speaker 1: you know, like so she decides that to seem cool.
Speaker 1: She's going to fake going on a trip to Paris
Speaker 1: to a writer's workshop, and while she's supposed to be
Speaker 1: in Paris, a terrorist attack happens there, so everyone in
Speaker 1: her life thinks that she was part of the attack,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, she starts getting attention for it,
Speaker 1: and she realizes that she can use her victimhood as
Speaker 1: a way to become an influencer, and in doing so,
Speaker 1: she meets this young high school girl who is a
Speaker 1: school shooting survivor and becomes friends with her. And it
Speaker 1: obviously gets very messy and dramatic, but it's really funny.
Speaker 1: It's really smartly written. I think it has some very
Speaker 1: interesting things to say about influence our culture. I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a perfect movie by any means, but what
Speaker 1: I loved is that she, the protagonist, is a horrible person,
Speaker 1: and she is it does the movie does have some
Speaker 1: maybe not sympathy, but empathy for her, and she does not,
Speaker 1: you know, get any sort of like Redemption arc Um.
Speaker 1: But it was a really good movie. Um. I think
Speaker 1: it's a first time filmmaker who wrote and directed it
Speaker 1: very excited to see what she does next. And I
Speaker 1: think you would really enjoy it. I'm honestly surprised that
Speaker 1: that you liked it, because I feel like it's so hard,
Speaker 1: especially for consumers like us, to to make a good
Speaker 1: movie that is also a commentary on social media and
Speaker 1: or influencers. Like that stuff gets really cringe really fast.
Speaker 1: Like I did not really like Ingrid Goes West all
Speaker 1: that much, Like I've never seen it. You you know,
Speaker 1: that has a lot of really redeeming elements to it. Um.
Speaker 1: I think that, like, you know, more often than not,
Speaker 1: the people writing about social media or writing about you know,
Speaker 1: influence or culture whatever that means, are either people that
Speaker 1: are do not participate in it, and so they're creating
Speaker 1: these weird caricatures that are like not funny, or they're
Speaker 1: two inside of it and they think it's way more
Speaker 1: interesting than it actually is. And I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is like best when it's the punchline, right,
Speaker 1: And I think this is a really good segue to Bodies, Bodies, Bodies.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you you watched that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw an early screening of it in June. I
Speaker 1: finally saw it last week, and I felt, what did
Speaker 1: you think? Well, you know, I felt like the commentary
Speaker 1: on just like us as you know, gen Z millennial
Speaker 1: kind of like influencer types were at times the movie's
Speaker 1: strongest points and also some of the biggest joke flops.
Speaker 1: And obviously Rachel Senate was the moment for that, and
Speaker 1: she she was kind of the movie for me, was
Speaker 1: the movie. I actually don't think the movie would have
Speaker 1: worked without her. I totally agree. I thought every I
Speaker 1: loved everything about the movie. I thought it was actually
Speaker 1: really thrilling. I thought the twist at the end was
Speaker 1: somehow I didn't I didn't even I mean like it
Speaker 1: felt very obvious towards the end, but like at the
Speaker 1: same time, I didn't predict it, did not see it coming,
Speaker 1: did not see it coming, and um, but the I
Speaker 1: think the reason I get to that is like, despite
Speaker 1: the fact that Rachel, I mean, Rachel was the best
Speaker 1: I think, the most fun to watch on screen, but
Speaker 1: all the other performances obviously great, But like Rachel's character
Speaker 1: specifically is like a kind of meta commentary on a
Speaker 1: very specific person you'll meet at a party or at
Speaker 1: a on a group vacation. Like I felt like I
Speaker 1: knew her. I felt like I knew a lot of
Speaker 1: the characters, um, and I felt felt like some of
Speaker 1: the kind of you know jokes that make fun of
Speaker 1: girls like her were very funny, and then some of
Speaker 1: them were two on the nose. I also watched, speaking
Speaker 1: of slashers, I finally watched that They Slash Them movie?
Speaker 1: Have you have you heard it? For the Virgins? If
Speaker 1: you don't know, there's this Peacock original that you know.
Speaker 1: The title is they Them, but it's supposed to be
Speaker 1: pronounced they slash them, or as Thomas Muster said it
Speaker 1: should speaking. I was at the at the screening with
Speaker 1: Thomas Patos and they pronounced it they slash them, and
Speaker 1: which I think is much better. Um. Here's the thing again,
Speaker 1: when movies really want to go in on like making
Speaker 1: commentary about something, sometimes they forget to be a good movie.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, to compare something like Bodies,
Speaker 1: Bodies Bodies, which is extremely queer, to something like They
Speaker 1: Slash Them, which is also extremely queer, but like also
Speaker 1: very very trans like it's a much more trans story. Um,
Speaker 1: I think that you know, they Slash Them suffered under
Speaker 1: the weight of the things that was trying to say
Speaker 1: about gender discrimination justice. Um, but ultimately, you know, had
Speaker 1: some thrills, had some chills, was not really scary unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but um good jokes are really great. Um singing montage
Speaker 1: moment that I won't spoil. Do you think I should
Speaker 1: watch it? Would I like it? I think that if
Speaker 1: it happens to be something that you're watching with people
Speaker 1: or if you have absolutely nothing to do, it is
Speaker 1: something that you would have a lot of thoughts on. Actually,
Speaker 1: and THEO Germaine, the lead, who's a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: is so hot and his THEO is really hot, so hot,
Speaker 1: and his scene partner is Kevin Bacon pretty much the
Speaker 1: whole movie. And I heard that the movie was originally
Speaker 1: supposed to be more specifically about gay conversion therapy, and
Speaker 1: then they were like, no, no, no, two, we got
Speaker 1: to make a trans So is the trans stuff done well?
Speaker 1: Like is it interesting? Does it like add to what
Speaker 1: the movie is trying to say? And like the horror
Speaker 1: of it, it adds and it also detracts. And this
Speaker 1: is I'm really glad you asked that question because it's
Speaker 1: kind of crystallizing everything that we're talking about, Like you
Speaker 1: telling me that that like they made they were decided
Speaker 1: to make it more trans is abundantly obvious to me.
Speaker 1: It is very clearly. I think the trans issues in
Speaker 1: the in the movie are really wedged in, and there
Speaker 1: are moments of discrimination against trans people that are inconsistent.
Speaker 1: So Kevin Bacon is really transphobic to one trans character
Speaker 1: and then not transphobic to this other trans character, and
Speaker 1: the logic of that doesn't really make sense. And then
Speaker 1: also the experiences of gay and lesbian people on the
Speaker 1: at the camp and trans people at the camp are
Speaker 1: kind of conflated, and there's no nuance in discussing how
Speaker 1: those kinds of oppressions are different, and yet it's trying
Speaker 1: to say something about it. So like for me, it's like,
Speaker 1: either you need to clarify what you're trying to say,
Speaker 1: or just like don't even go into it, Like we
Speaker 1: can just figure it out and you don't have to
Speaker 1: really give us this ham fisted like commentary on trans
Speaker 1: identity spoiler alert. At the end, when we find out
Speaker 1: who the murderer is, there's this moment where you're kind
Speaker 1: of like the murderer is kind of like on the
Speaker 1: side of the queer people, and you're like, oh, this
Speaker 1: murderer is dope, and like is like doing great things
Speaker 1: for people, but then the cops come and arrest them,
Speaker 1: and I was like this, how could this be like
Speaker 1: a queer movie? And yet the climax is resolved with cops,
Speaker 1: Like that's I know, that's like how all slashers end.
Speaker 1: But like you couldnot like fabricate any sort of other
Speaker 1: cinematic invention that would give us a resolution that does
Speaker 1: not involve cops, Like, it's just a failure of the
Speaker 1: imagination to me, um for that to be the ending.
Speaker 1: Another movie I kind of frayed into this weekend was
Speaker 1: good luck to you, Leo Grant. Have you have you
Speaker 1: watched this or heard about it at all. I've heard
Speaker 1: the premise of it, which is it's it's about like
Speaker 1: an older woman who's never come and hires a sex worker.
Speaker 1: That's literally the log line. And it's and it's like
Speaker 1: a COVID movie. So it's just like the two of
Speaker 1: them in a hotel room the whole time, exactly, And
Speaker 1: and that is hard. You know, that's a very specific
Speaker 1: movie to watch. It's like one set. It's basically a play.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie and that's fine. Um. Emma Thompson
Speaker 1: does incredible incredible work, like she actually an interview has
Speaker 1: described that, like the nudity scene that she does, and
Speaker 1: it is the hardest thing she's ever had to do
Speaker 1: as an actress, which is saying something because Emma Tompson,
Speaker 1: because let's talk about let's talk about her listening to
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell and love actually, oh my god, the performance
Speaker 1: of a life. Um, But it was really what was
Speaker 1: really fascinating is I've been really excited about this movie.
Speaker 1: I'd heard a lot of things, a lot of really
Speaker 1: good things about it, and the movie did not really
Speaker 1: deliver to me on a lot of what it was
Speaker 1: trying to say about sex workers, because it was really
Speaker 1: really trying to say something about sex workers. And what
Speaker 1: was very interesting to me was that I watched it
Speaker 1: the day after I rewatched Pretty Woman with a bunch
Speaker 1: of my friends, one of my favorite movies, one of
Speaker 1: the greatest movies ever written, and yet one of the
Speaker 1: most offensive depictions of like sex work like we've ever seen,
Speaker 1: but also that it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, and also,
Speaker 1: like you have to think it was the late eighties
Speaker 1: and just the fact that that movie was made where
Speaker 1: the main character was a sex worker and like gets
Speaker 1: a happy ending, and it's just I think it's a
Speaker 1: pretty radical movie for its time, and it is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies. And the first time I ever did,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, quote unquote drag publicly was on Halloween.
Speaker 1: I was Julia robertson Pretty Woman my freshm my freshman
Speaker 1: year of college. You have the wigs, you have that
Speaker 1: bob nasty? Is that nasty bob? They made her wear
Speaker 1: that bob for so long, like way more of the
Speaker 1: movie than she needed to wear that bob, and like
Speaker 1: you forget, like the sex scenes in that movie are
Speaker 1: actually so The scene on the reno, oh my god,
Speaker 1: on the piano is so sexy, so well blocked, so
Speaker 1: well written. Yeah, it's a great movie. Actually, I truly
Speaker 1: think this. We need to do a Julia Roberts episode.
Speaker 1: We absolutely do. We'll bring Caleb here and specifically Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts rom com Queen Earra like nodding Hill. I've never
Speaker 1: seen Pretty Woman, my best friend's wedding runaway Bride. I've
Speaker 1: never seen Mr Pizza. I've never seen Mr Pizza either, So, Virgins,
Speaker 1: if you would like a Julia Roberts episode, let us
Speaker 1: know um in the comments. Yeah, and to put a
Speaker 1: pin on like kind of this the pretty woman of
Speaker 1: it all. It's like, it's so funny, it's an amazing movie,
Speaker 1: and yet like the conceit of the movie is like
Speaker 1: a billionaire treats a woman basically like a like a
Speaker 1: into puppy kind of like you know, weekend toy thing
Speaker 1: a week a week only three grant for a week
Speaker 1: air all the money and even with inflation, it still
Speaker 1: makes no sense, like financial, it makes no financial And
Speaker 1: you know the movie was originally called three thousand. That's
Speaker 1: so fucking stupid. I hate that. Um. Anyways, Richard Gere,
Speaker 1: who is so sexy and it's the only movie where
Speaker 1: he's sexy, he you know, treats her like says really
Speaker 1: offensive things to her face frequently, like is honestly a
Speaker 1: scum of a human being, and like also has like
Speaker 1: an entire body of work and life that is like
Speaker 1: gouging people and like like tricking people, which like you know,
Speaker 1: he gets his little redemption arc at the end, but
Speaker 1: he becomes class conscious, right, he becomes class conscious whatever.
Speaker 1: But I just thought it was so funny that we
Speaker 1: can have this really kind of like this depiction of
Speaker 1: a sex worker where the sex worker kind of has
Speaker 1: a superhuman ability to deal with their clients bullshit because
Speaker 1: they're just grateful, and that that was unfortunately replicated in
Speaker 1: this Emma Thompson movie Um. Emma Thompson plays a really erratic,
Speaker 1: uh dysfunctional woman who is so she is really really
Speaker 1: bad at boundaries with the with um Darryl McCormick. So
Speaker 1: I gotta give it out to Darryl McCormick, who was
Speaker 1: so amazing this movie. They both were so good. But
Speaker 1: like Emma Thompson plays, plays this woman who just repeatedly
Speaker 1: treats him like an object and treats him like ship
Speaker 1: and asks him really offensive questions and says really insulting
Speaker 1: things to his face and he has to just kind
Speaker 1: of deal with it through the whole movie like he does.
Speaker 1: But does the like does the lens of the film
Speaker 1: show that that stuff is bad? Yes, And that's kind
Speaker 1: of the difference. Well, to some extent, the difference is that,
Speaker 1: like and Pretty Woman, they never tell you why any
Speaker 1: of this is like not how to treat a sex worker.
Speaker 1: Right in Um Good Luck to You, Leo Grand the
Speaker 1: movie is trying to demonstrate what to not do with
Speaker 1: sex workers, and also um just has there's a very
Speaker 1: long p s A in the middle about um just
Speaker 1: like why sex worker is ballad and should be like
Speaker 1: a public service and all this different stuff, Like it
Speaker 1: has a lot to say about the validity of sex work,
Speaker 1: which is like, fine, if that's what you're trying to
Speaker 1: do with the movie. I don't really enjoy like pedantic
Speaker 1: moments like that. I think it creates limitations around what
Speaker 1: can be a really good story. But it's still had.
Speaker 1: I think it checked all the right boxes of what
Speaker 1: it was trying to say. It's just the um I
Speaker 1: want a story about sex work where we don't have
Speaker 1: this transformative like look at this upstanding hooker and how
Speaker 1: like you know, well behaved they are now, and how
Speaker 1: like nice and saint like they are. It's like, actually,
Speaker 1: like sex workers don't have to be saints, and they
Speaker 1: don't have to be these like like healing like fixers
Speaker 1: that come in and like make you better and they
Speaker 1: have like nothing better to do with their lives. Like
Speaker 1: I felt with both movies they were very disinterested in
Speaker 1: like the inner life of the sex worker, though it's
Speaker 1: much more explored in the Emma Thompson movie because the
Speaker 1: acting is so good, but it's just like, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: like sex workers have to do tons of emotional labor.
Speaker 1: A lot of sex workers have to be therapists for
Speaker 1: their clients sometimes, but just like I want their life too,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I do think that we have almost
Speaker 1: never had a truly good depiction of sex work in
Speaker 1: a piece of mainstream media. And they're both The thing is,
Speaker 1: they're both great movies. Like, Okay, here's the thing. Pretty
Speaker 1: Woman at the end of the day is a male
Speaker 1: fantasy marketed to women, right, Like it is a I
Speaker 1: get to rent a woman for because I'm a billionaire,
Speaker 1: and I take our around on my day. It's in
Speaker 1: my nice car, and she's so obsessed with me, and
Speaker 1: I get to buy all these nice clothes and like
Speaker 1: whatever and like but at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: like she chooses me and because like you know, because
Speaker 1: I fixed her, like she it's a it's a Cinderella story.
Speaker 1: Like it's not it's a rare rom com where I
Speaker 1: don't think it's like it's not kind of aspirational in
Speaker 1: a way because I think the women who it's being
Speaker 1: marketed to at the time or not being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to grow up and be a prostitute, and
Speaker 1: like how this happened to me, which is like pumped
Speaker 1: up because like you know, like being sex work is
Speaker 1: not something that you know, should have stigma around it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to watch that movie. Yeah yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think I don't think you would like it. Um.
Speaker 1: It's really slow and it's very just like dialogue the
Speaker 1: whole time. That's it. Speaking of movies, I don't think
Speaker 1: you would like I finally watched the Netflix Persuasion adaptation. Oh,
Speaker 1: which girls are mad about this. The girls are really
Speaker 1: mad about it. I honestly, I don't think it's okay.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing it maybe if I had finished the book,
Speaker 1: I would feel differently. I started the book um when
Speaker 1: we were when we were on vacation, I was um
Speaker 1: and just kind of dropped it. I got a little bored.
Speaker 1: And maybe if I had read the book and like
Speaker 1: the story was important to me, Um, I would have
Speaker 1: hated it because even just from what I read, it's
Speaker 1: very different. Um. But I you know, like I enjoyed myself.
Speaker 1: I I had it on while I was taking a bath,
Speaker 1: and it was like very It's like you know, it's
Speaker 1: like a cozy, romantic period piece and like, yes, it's
Speaker 1: it's trying to be fleabag so hard and it's literally
Speaker 1: like have you ever bought anything from from Reformation or
Speaker 1: like gotten their emails their emails that you know their
Speaker 1: emails are like your ex boyfriend called or like, um,
Speaker 1: I've seen enough. I've seen enough Hunter Harris tweets to
Speaker 1: know that I cannot let myself be ensnared by a refreation.
Speaker 1: Like it's like if the person who wrote the copy
Speaker 1: for those Reformation emails wrote an adaptation of Treason, that's
Speaker 1: that's this one. Um. So it's it's stupid and bad,
Speaker 1: and I still enjoyed myself and Dakota Johnson. Dakota Johnson
Speaker 1: like shouldn't have been in it, but like was great
Speaker 1: because she's Dacote Johnson. She has zero chemistry with the
Speaker 1: with the lead, even though he's super sexy. Um, there's
Speaker 1: no kind of like outstanding side characters, which is what
Speaker 1: you want in a Jane Austin adaptation. And it's it's
Speaker 1: not good, but I don't think it's quite as evil
Speaker 1: and like you know, like bad for the culture as
Speaker 1: everyone is making it out to be. I've heard that
Speaker 1: the fandom is very pissed about this adaptation. Why why
Speaker 1: are why are Jane Austen stands mad because of the
Speaker 1: sort of like flea bagification of Persuasion, Like it has
Speaker 1: contemporary dialogue, right, it has, it has contemporary dialogue and sensibility.
Speaker 1: There's but I think that's honestly the the part that
Speaker 1: everyone's getting caught up on and is not the real problem. Like, so,
Speaker 1: Persuasion is the story of a woman who was supposed
Speaker 1: to marry a m a naval officer when she was young,
Speaker 1: but her family persuaded her not to because he had
Speaker 1: no money, and so she has regretted it ever since.
Speaker 1: And eight years later he comes back into her life
Speaker 1: and he has like risen in the ranks and has money.
Speaker 1: Now she's still a spinster. And it's the last book
Speaker 1: Jane Austin completed before her death, and it's very sort
Speaker 1: of like melancholic, and it's about a much different kind
Speaker 1: of love than you see in her earlier works. It's
Speaker 1: about a mature love. It's like a bit sadder and
Speaker 1: and Elliott, in what I read of the book is
Speaker 1: like a very you know, like introspective character. She's very quiet,
Speaker 1: and Dakota Johnson in the movie is like it is
Speaker 1: like speaks directly to the camera and says things like
Speaker 1: we were worse than friends were x is, and like
Speaker 1: there's little jokes like she she's like opening a box
Speaker 1: of letters from Wentworth and she's like he made me
Speaker 1: a playlist and it's like literally like a bunch of
Speaker 1: sheet music tied together. So it's stuff like that that
Speaker 1: people are like making a big deal out of when
Speaker 1: actually the real problem is that the an Elliott of
Speaker 1: the film is just not the same character as in
Speaker 1: the book and like does a lot of things that
Speaker 1: the an Elliott in the book would never do. The
Speaker 1: reason that they're brought together back in the book is
Speaker 1: like the the like mishaps and like conventions of the
Speaker 1: genre that put them back together that Jane Austen was
Speaker 1: so good at and not that like you know, and
Speaker 1: Ellie it was this like manic pixie dream girl, um,
Speaker 1: you know. And also it's like the movie is not pretty.
Speaker 1: The costumes are not lush. It's not that it's giving budget,
Speaker 1: it's giving like they try to make it look contemporary,
Speaker 1: Like it wears a lot of like button down shirts
Speaker 1: over a long dress and it's like, no, give me
Speaker 1: sense and sensibility like glamour. That's their family. Their family
Speaker 1: has to move from the country to Bath because they're poor.
Speaker 1: And someone says, like I've heard that if you're a
Speaker 1: ten in London, you're a five in Bath and like
Speaker 1: things like that are like stupid, but they're just they're
Speaker 1: distracting from the problem with it, which is that I
Speaker 1: think this movie just fundamentally doesn't understand what is beloved
Speaker 1: about its source material and like the kind of love
Speaker 1: it's trying to portray. But that being said, I I
Speaker 1: am always looking for that sort of printing period peace
Speaker 1: like cozy Day movie. And it still is that despite
Speaker 1: not being perfect, So you know, watch it for yourself,
Speaker 1: like make up your own mind. It's not the evil,
Speaker 1: evil thing that people are making it out to be. Okay, great,
Speaker 1: even though you didn't finish Persuasion, whether any other goodness.
Speaker 1: He's got into this weekend. Yeah, I'm reading two books
Speaker 1: right now. Um. One I started earlier in the summer
Speaker 1: and just got back into yesterday when I was at
Speaker 1: the beach. It's called book Lovers by Emily Henry, who's
Speaker 1: like a huge romance author. Um it's her latest book.
Speaker 1: It's a It's a book about a literary agent and
Speaker 1: a literary editor who find themselves in the same small
Speaker 1: town and I suppose are going to have a romance.
Speaker 1: And it's really good. Um so far. It just it
Speaker 1: just took me a while to get into it because
Speaker 1: I wasn't really that interested. But the other book that
Speaker 1: I'm reading that I'm very excited about and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to pace myself on because I don't want to get
Speaker 1: through too quickly is Husband's Material by Alexis Hall, who
Speaker 1: is like kind of one of my instant by authors.
Speaker 1: Like anything. They I've talked about a couple of their
Speaker 1: books this year already. Um. They this is a sequel
Speaker 1: to their book Boyfriend Material, which is Boyfriend Material was
Speaker 1: very much like a gay send up of like Bridget
Speaker 1: Jones Diary. Okay, I'm googling right now. Oh, you absolutely
Speaker 1: need to read it. It's super funny. Um. I also
Speaker 1: I listened to the audiobook of it the second time.
Speaker 1: The cover is in mely promising. Yeah, when you see
Speaker 1: a cover like this, it's it's a by hunt, It's
Speaker 1: it's about it's about this guy who's like sort of like, um,
Speaker 1: he's a he's the child of some celebrities, and like
Speaker 1: it's kind of always winding up in the tabloids and
Speaker 1: he has to have a fake boyfriend to like rehabilitate
Speaker 1: his image. But obviously him and the and the boyfriend
Speaker 1: like actually fall in love and wind up together. And
Speaker 1: so in the sequel, everyone around them is getting married,
Speaker 1: and so I think they might get I would assume that,
Speaker 1: since it's called husband material, they get married. It looks
Speaker 1: it looks very British. It is very British, and like
Speaker 1: the British isms are a big part of the humor
Speaker 1: and what I like about it, And yeah, it's really
Speaker 1: good in Alexis Hall. The books of theirs that I've
Speaker 1: talked about this year were, Um, A Lady for a Duke, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which was which is a historical romance with a trans lead,
Speaker 1: and you like them. I did really like it. I
Speaker 1: didn't think it was perfect, um, but I liked it.
Speaker 1: And it kind of goes back to what we were
Speaker 1: talking about with them with they slash them, which is
Speaker 1: that even though Alexis Hall has said that they wanted
Speaker 1: to write a book about a trans character, where like
Speaker 1: their Transnis was not the main thing with the plot.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's true of the work that they
Speaker 1: actually wrote, and but but to its like, I mean
Speaker 1: that in a positive way, because I want to see
Speaker 1: more stories where people's queerness and like more specifically, their
Speaker 1: trans nous are the plot couldn't happen without them, because
Speaker 1: those are the interesting stories that we haven't seen yet,
Speaker 1: the new stories that we should be telling. I think
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. Yeah, I agree, I mean that's the
Speaker 1: thing is like this this tension between like do I
Speaker 1: tell people how I really feel about a certain issue
Speaker 1: or do I just tell a good story? Or like
Speaker 1: do I have to pick? And like when do I?
Speaker 1: How do? How do I do both? It's like it's
Speaker 1: about the issue I think, like I think identity, and
Speaker 1: and like there's so much inherent in transness that can
Speaker 1: create a really interesting narrative. Like in In a Lady
Speaker 1: for a Duke, the whole plot of the story is
Speaker 1: that this trans woman has this best friend. They went
Speaker 1: to war together, she was injured in action and presumed dead,
Speaker 1: and she used that as as her chance to transition
Speaker 1: and like go away for a couple of years. I
Speaker 1: remember this very Alexis Mead allah ugly and come back
Speaker 1: as a woman, and like, that's what I mean when
Speaker 1: I say it's a plot point that could not happen
Speaker 1: without transness, and it's what creates the whole narrative. And
Speaker 1: that is really interesting that that story wouldn't exist if
Speaker 1: it wasn't for her identity, and so that is I'm
Speaker 1: interested in seeing more queer stories like that and in
Speaker 1: creating um but you know more, Stay tuned. But a
Speaker 1: boy from Material definitely recommend Book Lovers is good. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure like everyone's reading it, because like everyone reads
Speaker 1: Emily Henry's books anyway, So I'm not telling anyone anything
Speaker 1: they don't know. And I do now that I've watched
Speaker 1: the movie, I do want to finish Persuasion. I'll get
Speaker 1: around to it eventually. Honestly. Something that's kind of giving
Speaker 1: a little like kind of persuasion made well um Girl
Speaker 1: aesthetic is the new Maggie Rogers album, which for some
Speaker 1: reason drop the same day as Beyonce's I don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: here's the thing I know that they have as a
Speaker 1: music artists. They have nothing to do with each other.
Speaker 1: Their music has no overlap. I get it. I just
Speaker 1: like that can't be like, why would you? I would
Speaker 1: never in a million years drop something that weekend, especially
Speaker 1: if one of your songs is called honey. Oh well,
Speaker 1: what did you did you listen to thee? Yeah? Can
Speaker 1: I admit something to you. I don't love it. I'm
Speaker 1: kind of having I'm kind of having a hard time
Speaker 1: with it. And at first I thought it was just
Speaker 1: that every time I put it on, I found myself
Speaker 1: thinking I could just be listening to Beyonce right now,
Speaker 1: and that was the initial problem with it. And the
Speaker 1: few times that I did listen to it, it was
Speaker 1: always background music while I was writing, or background music
Speaker 1: while I was reading or whatever. And then I said, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I need to sit down and actually listen to it
Speaker 1: with headphones on and really give this album it's chance.
Speaker 1: And it made me realize that I wasn't reaching for
Speaker 1: it because I don't love it. I don't. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to you know, I think with a sophomore album
Speaker 1: when your first album was received, um, you know so
Speaker 1: like so Universe, the Universe slee Positive, Um, that's really
Speaker 1: hard to follow up. I just, um, I don't I
Speaker 1: like some of it. I like a lot of the
Speaker 1: singles that she released I think are good, but it's
Speaker 1: just like not a lot of the songs are really
Speaker 1: kind of grading, and I know that that's a big
Speaker 1: part of what she does. I was I was listening
Speaker 1: to something, oh and a recent episode of Lost Cultures
Speaker 1: does they were talking about her and how you know,
Speaker 1: she originally started off as a folk artist and then
Speaker 1: like once she moved to New York for school, like
Speaker 1: that's when she started like hearing a lot of club
Speaker 1: music and like got really into production and that's why
Speaker 1: her music kind of is the way that it is now.
Speaker 1: And I liked a lot of what she did with
Speaker 1: that on her last album, But on this album, I
Speaker 1: think it's just too it's overproduced and it's really I
Speaker 1: never would have thought about that. Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 1: of like pots and pants happening, and it's just, um,
Speaker 1: it's challenging to listen to, but not in a way
Speaker 1: that makes me want to kind of rise to the occasion.
Speaker 1: It's challenging to listen to in a way where I
Speaker 1: find myself just like I can only make it through
Speaker 1: like half a song and then I skipped to the
Speaker 1: next one. I just don't really I'm not enjoying it,
Speaker 1: and that's sad because I love her and her last
Speaker 1: album I was obsessed with and still am. I listened
Speaker 1: to it all the time. I have a slightly different
Speaker 1: relationship to Maggie Rogers, but a lot of similar experiences
Speaker 1: of this new album because I so I did not,
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I love Maggie, I love her art.
Speaker 1: I'm not like a Maggie stand per se. I did
Speaker 1: not listen to her first album over and over again
Speaker 1: the way I know a lot of Maggie Rogers heads do,
Speaker 1: Like you know, Joel Can Boosters listening right now, like
Speaker 1: screaming at us being so mad that we're um, you know,
Speaker 1: making critique of his queen. But like, but like she,
Speaker 1: I I think that thing about you know, heard it
Speaker 1: in a past life her last album is that it
Speaker 1: did have a lot more pop orientation, and these songs
Speaker 1: have really amazing hooks, and because Surrender doesn't have, it's
Speaker 1: much more introspective and much more thoughtful. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: the hooks that her last album had, and therefore for
Speaker 1: me was background music. And I think really great background music,
Speaker 1: like music still has that function and like that sounds
Speaker 1: like an insult, but like, I think it's really gorgeous,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't even work from it doesn't even work
Speaker 1: for me is background music because it becomes distracting and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to skip. Well, listen to
Speaker 1: the song. For me, the song that goes hardest. Shatter
Speaker 1: is the best song. I love Shatter. I love how
Speaker 1: Maggie screams on it. I think it's so cathartic and
Speaker 1: beautiful and one of my favorite songs she's ever written
Speaker 1: or done. Um, But I just like I thought it
Speaker 1: was you know, I've consumed the kind of the media, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, stuff around her enrollment in the Harvard Divinity
Speaker 1: School and how her Coachella performance was a project for
Speaker 1: her Harvard Divinity School, her Harvard Divinity School, like thesis
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I was like, like she says in
Speaker 1: this interview that Coachella, like her Coacheller performance fulfilled a
Speaker 1: requirement on public presonation. She literally filed this performance as
Speaker 1: a part of her the completion of her school. That's
Speaker 1: really that's really cool that I don't see. I mean, okay, cool, yes,
Speaker 1: But also just like I just feel like school is
Speaker 1: like for you, Like it's for your education, not for
Speaker 1: like entertainment value, like when I'm in school, I'm actually
Speaker 1: maybe I'm being a little too hard on her. I
Speaker 1: just feel like I to be that experimental and to
Speaker 1: be so I don't know, I just like don't want
Speaker 1: I just don't want to read your thesis. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm being like kind of an asshole about it,
Speaker 1: because like I at the end of the day don't
Speaker 1: want to read all everything behind it. I just want
Speaker 1: to know if it's a good album or not, and
Speaker 1: if every and honestly, maybe I'm projecting because this is
Speaker 1: something I'm extremely guilty of. I will do tons of research,
Speaker 1: tons of background work, have huge like stories and rationale
Speaker 1: behind projects that I put out or things that I do,
Speaker 1: and like all of that is worth nothing at the
Speaker 1: end of the day if people don't get it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, And it doesn't matter how many
Speaker 1: degrees you have or how much um intellect or pedagogy
Speaker 1: you've put into the thing, if it's at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, not something that's good for consumption, even
Speaker 1: something that's experimental and fun to consume. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's then to me just a project and surrender feels
Speaker 1: like a project, not an album, and I'm okay with that,
Speaker 1: Like I want to see Maggie explore, and so I'm
Speaker 1: excited to see what else she does. And she does
Speaker 1: not need to be the artist she was on Harden
Speaker 1: Past Life Forever, but that is the art that I
Speaker 1: would like from her, and I hope maybe with her
Speaker 1: next project she finds her way a little, a little
Speaker 1: further back, not territory, because for the moment, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm still only listening for Nissance Rose. Other things that
Speaker 1: we listened to this weekend the Queen's remix of Break
Speaker 1: My Soul Girl. I was gagged when when I was
Speaker 1: sent that link before, like before it came out on
Speaker 1: Spotify and then sent it to you, I was like,
Speaker 1: is this a Joe? It felt not real. And then
Speaker 1: I listened to it. I think it's so good. I
Speaker 1: think it's great. I think it's so good. I like
Speaker 1: that it's you know, the cultural context of Madonna's Vogue
Speaker 1: is that, like, as much as we love it and
Speaker 1: as much as it you know, brought vogue to the
Speaker 1: forefront of mainstream culture, it is also extremely appropriative. As
Speaker 1: you know, Madonna has been throughout her career, and I
Speaker 1: do like that in reworking and sampling the song, and
Speaker 1: you know, on a project where she's doing so much
Speaker 1: sampling and you know, reinterpretating of Vogue and House. I
Speaker 1: like that Beyonce places ballroom culture back in its original
Speaker 1: context while using the very thing that was I don't
Speaker 1: want to say weaponized against it, but like the very
Speaker 1: thing that kind of helped break it from that in
Speaker 1: the first place. Um And the way she does that
Speaker 1: is through like I think most specifically at the end,
Speaker 1: when she's doing what Madonna did the original song and
Speaker 1: like naming all these legends, like and when Madonna did it,
Speaker 1: she was like naming all these white women who were
Speaker 1: on the cover of Vogue. When Beyonce does it, she's
Speaker 1: naming all these black female artists and literal Vogue houses
Speaker 1: like and some of them were deep cuts to Like
Speaker 1: when she mentioned House of Ladosia, I was gaming. I
Speaker 1: was gagged. I was gagged for people that don't know
Speaker 1: House of Ladosia is. And they're like an iconic underground
Speaker 1: New York house, very much a part of the Westgate
Speaker 1: scene the early years of bush Wig. It's Julianna Hustable,
Speaker 1: it's Joanna Huxtable collective predominantly, So it's like very it's
Speaker 1: just different. It's so it's such Julianna Hugstable, Michael Magnan,
Speaker 1: Dosha Bailey styles, Neon Christina like true underground New York legends,
Speaker 1: very much involved in like Spectrum used to throw a
Speaker 1: lot of really cool parties and so to hear them
Speaker 1: placed in that context with other legendary houses like House
Speaker 1: of Extravaganza, House of Aubiance. Also my like my girl
Speaker 1: Nita Auvance, who's one half of the Carrie Nation, did
Speaker 1: one of the break My Soul remixes that Beyonce put out.
Speaker 1: It's just like the best remix. It's so it's so
Speaker 1: incredible to see Babarin culture at large be celebrated in
Speaker 1: this way by the biggest artists in the world, in
Speaker 1: a way that is actually like honoring the reality of
Speaker 1: what it is rather than you know, like appropriating it's
Speaker 1: it's style or sound um and doing something entirely different
Speaker 1: with it. It's it's as we said in our our
Speaker 1: Beyonce episode last week, like she's citing her sources and
Speaker 1: and even more than that, she is like she's trying
Speaker 1: as in any way she can to give the girls
Speaker 1: their flowers. You said it all like I I, and
Speaker 1: I honestly didn't even think about it in that way,
Speaker 1: and then thinking about it as a full circle moment
Speaker 1: to kind of rectify the ways that Madonna's Vogue was
Speaker 1: extremely exploitative. Right, Like Madonna did a lot for a
Speaker 1: ballroom culture. Um our friend of the pod, like mikel
Speaker 1: Street has like a lot of work and reporting on
Speaker 1: this if you ever want to check out his stuff,
Speaker 1: But like he um, there's nuance in all of it, right,
Speaker 1: Like Madonna was appropriative and exploitative and like stole culture
Speaker 1: from the most marginalized in the New York scene. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, she brought the House of Ninja
Speaker 1: and other dancers with her on tour. Right she put
Speaker 1: them in the music video. Right, she got an entire
Speaker 1: you know, group of people listening to Vogue to say,
Speaker 1: what's Vogue, what's vogueing, what's ballroom? And that is you
Speaker 1: know big, that's huge, right, Um for Beyonce to put
Speaker 1: it explicitly in context, I think you said it perfectly,
Speaker 1: Like that's so amazing. And also in addition to ladosha
Speaker 1: um a kiki house like House of tell Far a
Speaker 1: very new house, a house that's like fresh on the scene,
Speaker 1: like again another really deep cut. And the list of
Speaker 1: names where it's just like a list of powerful black women.
Speaker 1: And she says Grace Jones twice, like Grace, Grace Jones,
Speaker 1: Grace Jones. Um, she should have said. I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: this is like totally totally fan service, wishful thinking, but
Speaker 1: like I feel like Calice should have been in the
Speaker 1: list of names. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen,
Speaker 1: but if she removed, I mean, it's just me being
Speaker 1: a fan fan, but like, come on, that would have
Speaker 1: been so iconic because Calice is in that list, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? She is she is, you know,
Speaker 1: she's I've been listening to so much Calie, to this
Speaker 1: Beyonce stuff is happening. All just made me Acapella is
Speaker 1: it's all of the millennium, um, and that's one good
Speaker 1: thing to come of all this is thought. It reminded
Speaker 1: me how much I love Chalice and I hope that
Speaker 1: my streams are making her money. Similarly, I've been revisiting Chalice,
Speaker 1: but I also have been revisiting Donna Summers Bad Girls,
Speaker 1: which I don't think I've given a through listened through
Speaker 1: since like college, and like the transitions I mean Beyonce,
Speaker 1: I think that's like one of the strongest influences for renaissances,
Speaker 1: Like the transitions on Bad Girls are sublime, like they
Speaker 1: are so next level, and um I I honestly it
Speaker 1: gave me a whole new appreciation for the album as
Speaker 1: a whole, as one of the greatest dance albums to
Speaker 1: have ever been released, and I um I honestly, it
Speaker 1: just made me crave like real disco music right like
Speaker 1: you know in You and I saw tons of like
Speaker 1: disco inspired music, right do I release the album Chromatica
Speaker 1: was supposed to be disco influenced. I thought it was
Speaker 1: just a kylie um see where, which is like an
Speaker 1: amazing album, But like Honey Again, it's more than disco yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's for me. It's like, no, I
Speaker 1: want like if you're going to do a disco album,
Speaker 1: And this is part of why I love A lot
Speaker 1: of the songs are renaissance, Like if you're gonna do
Speaker 1: a disco album, I want a farty ass base, I
Speaker 1: want a gospel choir, I want some clapping sounds like
Speaker 1: I want like the things that make disco disco, Like
Speaker 1: I want full wind and trumpet ensemble, right, okay, Like
Speaker 1: and I feel like, you know, when we get I
Speaker 1: want native new Yorker, yes, native New Yorker, and when
Speaker 1: I get reformed Williams, and like when I get the
Speaker 1: dual leap of stuff, which is like fine, it's just
Speaker 1: like that, it's not disco. It's not disco. It's not
Speaker 1: even really house. I think if anyone like Kylie is
Speaker 1: maybe the girl who really was giving up has always
Speaker 1: given us true disco but like the disco inspired ship.
Speaker 1: It's like I think Renaissance is what I was waiting for,
Speaker 1: you know, and the diet. I don't think Renaissance is
Speaker 1: even disco, Like ren Renaissance is house. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that there are three songs that are pretty pretty like
Speaker 1: pretty disco funk disco. Um, but I agree, it's like
Speaker 1: I wanted the full fantasy, the bad girl's fantasy. So
Speaker 1: um wait. So we got a d m at like
Speaker 1: a virgine and that said one of our theories from
Speaker 1: last week, and this person does not want us to
Speaker 1: blow out their spots, so we will keep them anonymous.
Speaker 1: But they said that one of our theories is true
Speaker 1: and that the next two projects are a country album
Speaker 1: and an R and B album. So crowded for that
Speaker 1: country album and do you think they're gonna do you
Speaker 1: think she's going to tap the Chicks again? But the
Speaker 1: other rumors that it's going to be maybe don R
Speaker 1: and B album, but a rock album, and that the
Speaker 1: whole thread of these three albums is that Beyonce is
Speaker 1: taking back music that was traditionally kind of stolen from
Speaker 1: from Black Bowl. So she did it with house, Um,
Speaker 1: she'll do with country and then with rock and roll,
Speaker 1: and like a Beyonce rock album would be major, like
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking like rock, like you know, give me
Speaker 1: like a little Richard sample Tina Turner. It's all about
Speaker 1: Tina Like, um, I mean like like I'm talking, we're
Speaker 1: talking like classic rock and blues, like you know, the
Speaker 1: kind of rock that Elvis appropriated. Yeah eggs, oh gag.
Speaker 1: Well we'll get into that maybe in our VAS episode.
Speaker 1: But like I girl, I really like I saw I
Speaker 1: think I saw that theory on Twitter and I had
Speaker 1: goose bumps, like the idea of giving it back to
Speaker 1: like what like you know, something that was stolen like,
Speaker 1: but I totally agree. I'm much more compelled by Beyonce
Speaker 1: rock album than another R and B album, which would
Speaker 1: also be amazing obviously because it's Beyonce, but like damn,
Speaker 1: the Tina Turner samples would be off the chain. And
Speaker 1: when we think about, you know, Beyonce is a frequent
Speaker 1: collaborator with like Jack White, with like kind of cold
Speaker 1: Play ed Sheer in like pop rock types that she
Speaker 1: takes a lot of influence from, Like I mean, I
Speaker 1: think Beyonce once said that cold Play is like her
Speaker 1: favorite band or something like that, Like I mean, I
Speaker 1: you know, But again, it kind of flexes onto the
Speaker 1: quote unquote basicness of Beyonce that I alluded to last week,
Speaker 1: which is not an insult, it's it's just makes her
Speaker 1: really clean canvas um. But I I feel like just
Speaker 1: looping back to the Madonna of it all, appropriation at large,
Speaker 1: like cultural exploitation at large, is like a massive sin
Speaker 1: of this country that, like to this day is still
Speaker 1: something that we just never reckoned with, Like we are
Speaker 1: constantly stealing from black and brown culture without even realizing it.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't even have to say that. It's
Speaker 1: like so you know, rudimentary and obvious to say, but like,
Speaker 1: I'm just so grateful for what Renaissance is and whatever
Speaker 1: she does next, because you know, last week when we
Speaker 1: were saying, like Beyonce watched Post and then made this album,
Speaker 1: like you know, we were joking, but like, but Beyonce
Speaker 1: literally does love Post. Like she's on the record saying
Speaker 1: that she loves that show, and um for me when
Speaker 1: we're sorting out because the you know, since in the
Speaker 1: week that this album has released, there have been a
Speaker 1: lot of conversations around Renaissance talking about like what is
Speaker 1: the role of appropriation? Is Beyonce appropriating quote unquote queer culture,
Speaker 1: trans culture ballroom? You know, like is this her her
Speaker 1: um territory to trod on? And for me and this
Speaker 1: is just my personal belief. So if people don't believe,
Speaker 1: but people disagree with me, that's totally cute. But like,
Speaker 1: when it comes down to the question of telling a
Speaker 1: story that isn't yours, is the basic way of putting it.
Speaker 1: If you're going to tell a story that isn't yours,
Speaker 1: for me, it's about one clocking the hours on the
Speaker 1: story you want to tell, Right, what are the research
Speaker 1: is what's the research you've done? Who are the sources
Speaker 1: you're citing? And, as we've already laid out in our
Speaker 1: album review, like Beyonce has done all of that. The
Speaker 1: second question is like reckoning with your conviction, Right? Do
Speaker 1: you want to make this because you care about this
Speaker 1: community and you have an investment in it? Or do
Speaker 1: you want to make this because you want to collect
Speaker 1: the cloud of highlighting a marginalized community? Right? And I
Speaker 1: think that Beyonce was very smart to release all this
Speaker 1: Uncle Johnny stuff to show that she has a personal
Speaker 1: stake in this, that this is her life, that you know,
Speaker 1: she grew up with house music and with queer culture
Speaker 1: by way of her uncle. Right. And then the last
Speaker 1: thing is do you stick the landing? Like? Is it
Speaker 1: just good? Is it good art? And it's good art,
Speaker 1: It's good fucking art. And like for me, it's like
Speaker 1: that tree out of Things is like a really great
Speaker 1: rubric for to figure out whether or not your art
Speaker 1: is you know, gonna exploit some people. And I think
Speaker 1: that for her to say all these iconic houses, all
Speaker 1: these iconic women's names, to give credit where credit is due,
Speaker 1: it's just like exactly how you do it? Know what
Speaker 1: I mean, UM, and I'm so grateful for that. Wow,
Speaker 1: we really have UM consumed a lot. That was a
Speaker 1: lot over the past week. Is there anything Is there
Speaker 1: anything that you're really looking forward to that's coming out
Speaker 1: or happening in the next couple of weeks that, like
Speaker 1: the listeners, the Virgins can um consume as well so
Speaker 1: that they are on the same track as us. There
Speaker 1: literally is something that I can't think of what it
Speaker 1: is right now. Do you have an answer to that question? Um? Okay,
Speaker 1: A couple of things that I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 1: named the books that I'm reading at the moment. I
Speaker 1: still think I want to figure out this book club scenar.
Speaker 1: Like all of our d M s are about people
Speaker 1: saying they want to do the book club. We've had
Speaker 1: like multiple people say they want to be our intern.
Speaker 1: So we will be making it happen. Oh, The Sandman,
Speaker 1: that's what we want to talk about. Okay, okay, so
Speaker 1: will I watch it? I'll watch it. I started watching
Speaker 1: the new Netflix series The Sandman, which is an adaptation
Speaker 1: of Neil Gaiman's comic book series, which was turned into
Speaker 1: a series of graphic novels. Um, I'm really trying to
Speaker 1: take my time on it because I don't want to
Speaker 1: go through it too quickly. Um, Fran, if you watch it,
Speaker 1: if you'll watch it, like, I'll save my thoughts about it.
Speaker 1: And I actually think Fran and I did talk about this,
Speaker 1: but maybe we should do a Neil Gaiman episode because
Speaker 1: Neil Gaiman is really important to me. I've like read
Speaker 1: everything he's ever written, and Fran is like a true virgin,
Speaker 1: and so I think it would be fun to have
Speaker 1: them like try out a couple of things and have
Speaker 1: a conversation about it. Um. But yeah, we can definitely
Speaker 1: do maybe for our next new segment. Um, once Fran
Speaker 1: has watched a little bit of The Sandman and I've
Speaker 1: watched a little bit more, we can talk about it.
Speaker 1: But it's really good. Um, if anyone out there wants
Speaker 1: to start watching it, definitely do that. I'm gonna see
Speaker 1: bullet Train. That's so excited. I'm gonna see bullet Train.
Speaker 1: Actually might maybe see it later today or like, maybe
Speaker 1: it's gonna be really hot in Nelly this week, so
Speaker 1: maybe one day when it's really hot, I'll go to
Speaker 1: the movies maybe. Um, So we'll probably talk about that
Speaker 1: next week. I'm definitely excited for Bad Bunny in Bullet Train,
Speaker 1: Like I'm going to be like wet and that like
Speaker 1: sucking the r C. It's gonna be gross. Uh yeah.
Speaker 1: We'll be back next week, um and back to our
Speaker 1: usual format with a discussion on all things Basilerman, but
Speaker 1: for real this time, because I know we said that
Speaker 1: last week. It's just you know, sometimes take a little turn.
Speaker 1: So now you have an extra week to catch up on,
Speaker 1: you know, Basilerman's. You can leave us a review on
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It actually helps us a lot.
Speaker 1: It cannot be overstated that if you leave us a review,
Speaker 1: it is the number one thing or maybe the number
Speaker 1: two things, aside from sharing with your friends, um, to
Speaker 1: help our podcasts become so famous. You can find me
Speaker 1: on social media at friends, squish co anywhere you want,
Speaker 1: and you can find me at Rose Damn You. You
Speaker 1: can subscribe to Like a Vision anywhere you listen. This
Speaker 1: is an I Heart production. Our producer is the Phoebe Unter,
Speaker 1: with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Chess Crane Chitch
Speaker 1: and Nicky Etour. Until next week, See you later, Virgins