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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

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Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

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Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Breaking Points. Crystal, I'm

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Speaker 3: in for Sager, Thanks for.

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Speaker 4: Having me always.

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Speaker 2: Happy New Year, Emily, Happy New Year got off to

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Speaker 2: a terrible bud event ful star to twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: We had two violent incidents that the FBI is investigated.

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Speaker 2: Are actually looking to see if there might be any

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Speaker 2: link between the two. So far indications are no, but

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Speaker 2: will break all of that down for you, both in

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Speaker 2: New Orleans and also in Las Vegas.

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Speaker 4: Trump did in.

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Speaker 2: Publicly on New Year's Eve about the whole elon Musk

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Speaker 2: h one b thing firmly signing with Elon Musk and

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Speaker 2: indicating that actually, we need a lot more immigrants in

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Speaker 2: the country. So a little bit different. Note that he's

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Speaker 2: founding now versus when he was on the campaign trail,

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Speaker 2: and certainly when he was on the trail back in

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen and twenty twenty. We also have some drama

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Speaker 2: in the Republican Caucus. Mike Johnson faces a speaker vote tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: and he can only because the House Republican Caucus has

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Speaker 2: such a narrow majority he can only lose one vote.

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Speaker 4: He's already lost that vote.

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Speaker 2: Thomas Massey said he's not voting for Mike Johnson, so

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Speaker 2: if anyone else defects, he won't be able to get

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Speaker 2: a majority. We'll be in another like negotiation. I'll Kevin McCarthy,

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Speaker 2: mag Gates, etc. So we'll see where all of that goes.

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Speaker 2: They're also facing a hitting the debt ceiling very very shortly.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take a look. Emily's gonna help me

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Speaker 2: understand this. Blake Lively justin Baldoni thing. He's firing back

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Speaker 2: both at Blake Lively and at The New York Times,

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Speaker 2: suing the New York Times claiming that they're reporting was

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Speaker 2: false and that they were cherry picking and actually altering

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Speaker 2: communications that they use for their blockbuster report alleging that

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Speaker 2: he had harassed her and also that he had retaliated

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Speaker 2: against her. So like all of that down for you.

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Speaker 2: The parents of the open AI whistleblower who was found dead.

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Speaker 2: Authorities deem that as suicide. The parents don't buy it.

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Speaker 2: They have hired a private investigator to look into exactly

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Speaker 2: what happened there. So we'll bring you those details. And

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Speaker 2: we also are going to have an American doctor from

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Speaker 2: Texas join us who is just back from his second

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Speaker 2: trip to Gaza. Obviously, we covered earlier this week the

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Speaker 2: horrific latest raid on Kamal Adwan Hospital, the last functioning

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Speaker 2: hospital in northern Gaza, has been destroyed. All the patients

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Speaker 2: and medical staff forced to leave, some of them detained, etc.

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Speaker 2: So he's going to tell us what he saw when

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Speaker 2: he was in the Gaza strip before we jump into

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Speaker 2: the latest that we know out of New Orleans and

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Speaker 2: this horrific terror attack that occurred on New Year's Day.

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Speaker 2: If you guys can help us out, help bring in

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Speaker 2: the new year, help us be able to provide the

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Speaker 2: best coverage we can by becoming premium describers. You can

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. If you can't do that,

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Speaker 2: that's fine. It also helps us out a lot to

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Speaker 2: like and share our videos on YouTube. So with that,

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Speaker 2: let's go ahead and jump into the news.

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Speaker 3: Yes, let's start in New Orleans Crystal, where the death

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Speaker 3: hole has now risen to fifteen people from the horrific

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Speaker 3: New Year's attack on Bourbon Street. Now you've all in

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Speaker 3: the audience likely heard the basics of what happened. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: a car we have some video of this we're going

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Speaker 3: to show in just one moment, rammed into the packed

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Speaker 3: crowd on Bourbon Street in New Orleans around three in

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Speaker 3: the morning on New Year's Eve. But then really New

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Speaker 3: Year's Day, people were still out in full force celebrating

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Speaker 3: New Year's Eve. So it's clear that this attacker wanted

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Speaker 3: to take out as many people as possible. Now, President

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden late yesterday finally addressed the nation in some

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Speaker 3: very crystal I was very strange. I mean, there's nothing

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Speaker 3: strange really about the script, but certainly about the delivery.

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Speaker 3: So let me go ahead right now and roll this

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Speaker 3: video of Joe Biden addressing the nation from Camp David,

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Speaker 3: which is where he was for the holiday. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to get this on full screen so you can actually

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Speaker 3: see his face up close. Here's Joe Biden from Camp

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Speaker 3: David last night.

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Speaker 5: Our hearts were the people of New Orleans after despicable

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Speaker 5: attack that occurred in the early morning hours. To all

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Speaker 5: the families of those who are killed, to all those

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Speaker 5: are injured, to all the people of New Orleans. We're

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Speaker 5: grieving today. I want you to know I a grieve

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Speaker 5: with you. Our nation grieves with you. We're going to

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Speaker 5: stand with you as you mourn and as you heal

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Speaker 5: in the weeks to come. I want to thank our

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Speaker 5: very first responders and law enforcement personnel who stopped the

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Speaker 5: attacker in his tracks before he could kill or injured

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Speaker 5: even more people. And I want to thank you to

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Speaker 5: everyone at the Department of the Homeland Security, the Department

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Speaker 5: of Justice, including the FBI, for working non stop to

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Speaker 5: investigate this heinous act. The FBI is an investigation to

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Speaker 5: determine what happened, why it happened, whether there was any

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Speaker 5: continuing threat to public safety. Here's what we know so far.

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Speaker 5: The FBI is reported to me. The killer was an

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Speaker 5: American citizen born in Texas. He served in the United

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Speaker 5: States Army in active duty for many years. He also

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Speaker 5: served in the Army Reserve until a few years ago.

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Speaker 5: The FBI also reported to me that mere hours before

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Speaker 5: the attack, he posted videos on social media indicating that

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Speaker 5: is inspired by ISIS, especially the desire to kill, the

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Speaker 5: desire to kill. The ISIS flag was found in his vehicle,

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Speaker 5: which he rented to conduct this attack. Possible explosives are

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Speaker 5: found in the vehicle as well, and more explosive were

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Speaker 5: found nearby. The situation is very fluid, and the investigation

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Speaker 5: as a preliminary stage. And the fact is that right

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Speaker 5: right now, excuse me, there you go, the law enforcement

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Speaker 5: intelligence community continue to look for any connections, associations, are

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Speaker 5: co conspirators.

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Speaker 3: Well, Chris, I feel better.

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Speaker 2: I mean like this is the least important part of

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Speaker 2: this at this point, given the loss of life and

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Speaker 2: et cetera. But it's unbelievable. This man is our president

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Speaker 2: and that he thought still believes that he would have

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Speaker 2: been able to be Donald Trump. But you know, clearly

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Speaker 2: this was a horrific, intentional attack.

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Speaker 4: We are learning.

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Speaker 2: More about the suspect who was killed after you know,

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Speaker 2: he fired at law enforcement, and law enforcement fire back

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Speaker 2: and shot and killed him. But you know the ISIS piece,

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Speaker 2: so an ISIS flag was found in his truck, and

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Speaker 2: the president there indicates that, according to law enforcement, he

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Speaker 2: had posted some video sympathizing with ISIS. The more we

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Speaker 2: learn about this dude, the more it looks less like

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Speaker 2: an instance of some sort of like you know, Islamic

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Speaker 2: radicalization and more like some a dude who went through

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Speaker 2: a divorce and lost his mind because apparently he had

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Speaker 2: first threatened his own family and was thinking of killing them,

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Speaker 2: and then decided got this ISIS inspiration idea instead and

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Speaker 2: goes and murders a bunch of you know, innocent partygoers

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Speaker 2: on celebrating the new year. So we can go ahead, Emily,

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Speaker 2: I think you've got the TikTok video of this individual,

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Speaker 2: born and raised in Texas, originally Christian, converted to Islam

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Speaker 2: in the last number of years. According to his relatives

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Speaker 2: and friends, had become sort of like increasingly devout and

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Speaker 2: increasingly withdrawn. He'd gone through two divorces and had a

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Speaker 2: very troubled relationship, in particular with I think the second

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Speaker 2: wife it appears like, but this is a video of him.

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Speaker 2: He was a professionally worked at Deloitte actually, and this

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Speaker 2: is a video of him when he was going through

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Speaker 2: a phase where he was launching trying to launch a

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Speaker 2: real estate business. This in any cases, how he presented

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Speaker 2: himself in the context of that business.

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Speaker 6: So Ding Jabor, property manager with Blue Metal Properties and

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Speaker 6: team lead at the Midas Group at Core Realty, I

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Speaker 6: just want to say hello and let you know a

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Speaker 6: little bit about me. So I'm born and raised in Beaumont,

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Speaker 6: Texas and now live in Houston. And I've been here

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Speaker 6: all my life, with the exception of traveling for the military,

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Speaker 6: where I spent ten years as a human resources specialist

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Speaker 6: and IT specialist, where I learned the meaning of great

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Speaker 6: service and what it means to be responsive and take

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Speaker 6: everything seriously, guiding eyes and crossing t's to make sure

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Speaker 6: that things go off without a hitch. So I've taken

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Speaker 6: those skills and applied them to my career as a

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Speaker 6: real estate agent. Where I feel like it really sets

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Speaker 6: me apart from other agents is my ability to be

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Speaker 6: able to one.

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Speaker 7: Be a negotiator.

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Speaker 6: So not only do I brilliantly market your property to

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Speaker 6: make sure it gets sold as quickly as possible or

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Speaker 6: it gets leased as quickly as possible. But I'm also

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Speaker 6: going to take every ounce of energy and putting it

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Speaker 6: into negotiating for you and for your property to get

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Speaker 6: the best deal.

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Speaker 7: That you can possibly get for it.

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Speaker 6: So once we get to the closing table, all the

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Speaker 6: e's are going to be dotted, all the t's are

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Speaker 6: going to be crossed. Everything's going to go off without

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Speaker 6: a hitch. And that is my word that I'm given

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Speaker 6: to you as your real estate agency.

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Speaker 3: And Chris sol what I'm sharing right here is from

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Speaker 3: the New York Times. They say a man they reported

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Speaker 3: midday yesterday, man who know new shamsu Din Bahar Jabbars,

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Speaker 3: tells us that Jabbar had converted to Islam and then

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Speaker 3: began acting radically in recent months. As according to Mike Baker,

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Speaker 3: the concerning behavior led to him having limited contact with

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Speaker 3: his children. So certainly more reporting to that extent is coming.

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Speaker 3: In no question about it. We're going to learn more.

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Speaker 3: I just have to say. I mean as the lawn

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Speaker 3: enforcement response Crystal transpired yesterday and the public eye started

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Speaker 3: with a news conference in which the FBI said that

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Speaker 3: they were not investigating an act of terrorism. We're going

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Speaker 3: to get into some of this in just one moment.

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Speaker 3: And then obviously they had covered up the ISIS flag,

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Speaker 3: which is going to lead to a lot of questions

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Speaker 3: for years to come, certainly. But then hours later, actually

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Speaker 3: like moments later, pivoted to saying yes, they were investigating

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Speaker 3: this as an act of terrorism, which all seemed to

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Speaker 3: be adding up pretty quickly to the point where they

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Speaker 3: should be able to confirm that. They then held a disastrous,

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Speaker 3: disastrous midday press conference yesterday, and it wasn't just law enforcement,

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Speaker 3: it was also Jeff Landry, the governor of Louisiana, Senator

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Speaker 3: John Kennedy, Republican from Louisiana, involved in this press conference.

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Speaker 2: It was honestly just bizarre. It was like bizarre, hardly combative,

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Speaker 2: and for no reason at all.

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Speaker 4: It was just weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was horrible. I honestly thought it was just

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Speaker 3: a disgraceful display. They were combative with reporters. Kennedy told

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Speaker 3: the boomer joke about like NBC being on the left

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Speaker 3: and the right in the middle of the press conference.

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Speaker 2: Right bodies were still really not the time when fifteen

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Speaker 2: people are dead and many dozens more injured, and you're

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Speaker 2: making like partisan, weird boomer jokes.

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Speaker 7: Right.

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Speaker 3: Bodies were literally still on Bourbon Street at the time,

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Speaker 3: which was another thing that they were confirming in that

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Speaker 3: press conference. Is horrific. They did not want to answer questions.

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Speaker 3: They all seem to be on completely different pages. They

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Speaker 3: tried to end the press conference after delaying it for forever.

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Speaker 3: They tried to end it like quickly into the questions

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Speaker 3: a few questions in because they were threatening reporters, essentially

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Speaker 3: saying like, you're not asking questions that we can answer,

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Speaker 3: so we're just going to end it. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: was outrageous how that happened. So let's take a look

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Speaker 3: at some of the questions they were answering. One of

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Speaker 3: the biggest questions that they've failed going into all of

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Speaker 3: this is how did this happen? Was there not adequate security?

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Speaker 3: New Orleans obviously was hosting the Sugar Bowl. There were

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Speaker 3: tens of thousands of people in town for the Sugar Bowl.

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Speaker 3: Supposed to be yesterday night, on New Year's Eve, they

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Speaker 3: postponed it a day. That was an announcement from the

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Speaker 3: press conference. We were just mentioning, but they're also hosting

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Speaker 3: the Super Bowl and just plainly should be able to

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Speaker 3: keep obviously people safe on Bourbon Street now on a

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Speaker 3: New Year's celebration. Now, this is video, and it has

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Speaker 3: some yellow boxes that you can follow of the car

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Speaker 3: which was rented on the app turo. There's an electric vehicle.

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Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and watch follow those yellow boxes if

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Speaker 3: you're watching this.

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Speaker 4: Terrifying.

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Speaker 3: So what we just saw there was the electric vehicle

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Speaker 3: go around a squad car that we're now learning from

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Speaker 3: authorities was there because they're working to get barricades, basically

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Speaker 3: the types of barricades that you put up when you

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Speaker 3: don't want traffic to come down a street and ram

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Speaker 3: a street full of people. This is what they're saying.

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Speaker 3: As of right now, they were using squad cars instead.

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Speaker 3: But obviously you can drive around a squad car, and

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Speaker 3: if you can get onto the sidewalk, then you haven't

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Speaker 3: fully barricaded the street. Crystal. Their answers to this have

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Speaker 3: been utterly unsatisfying thus far.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and apparently all they had up were just the

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Speaker 2: little like orange gate barricades that you can easily barrel through.

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Speaker 2: To your point, it seems like the most obvious thing

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Speaker 2: in the world that if you're trying to block a

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Speaker 2: street using a vehicle, which is a common practice. I've

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Speaker 2: seen this in New York or I've seen this in

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Speaker 2: DC where they're moving even some of the like you know,

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Speaker 2: sanitation trucks to try to block off different areas, like

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Speaker 2: you have to actually block off that area or else

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Speaker 2: it doesn't serve much of a purpose. Also, the fact

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Speaker 2: that he's able to just skirt right around it and

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Speaker 2: there's not any you know, immediate reaction. Now I have

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Speaker 2: seen video of local law enforcement, you know, immediately running

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Speaker 2: into danger when they realized what was happening, and obviously

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Speaker 2: they were able to neutralize the threat before it would

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Speaker 2: caused even more loss of life. We should also mention

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Speaker 2: in terms of the details here and part of what

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Speaker 2: created this confusion around whether or not he was acting alone,

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Speaker 2: confusion which I don't think has been completely resolved, although

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Speaker 2: at this point it appears that the catch just showed

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Speaker 2: up that he was acting completely alone. But there was

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Speaker 2: uh an ied in addition to the firearms that he

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Speaker 2: had in the truck, and then there was some indication

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Speaker 2: that there might have been some other ied that was

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Speaker 2: found around the city. So you know, there are some

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Speaker 2: questions that still remain, but that you know, that's part

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Speaker 2: of what's been confusing is initially they came out and said, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're investigating these other individuals that we saw planting these

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Speaker 2: devices around the city, and then had to come out

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Speaker 2: and walk that no, no, no, Actually it turns out

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Speaker 2: they weren't involved. So there was a lot of you know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of questions about the law enforcement response here.

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Speaker 2: And we actually have a video of someone who was there,

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Speaker 2: an eyewitness, who said that he was concerned from the

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Speaker 2: jump about the seeming lack of security of this area

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Speaker 2: that is, you know, obviously famous in terms of America.

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Speaker 2: It's this cultural historical destination known for its you know, revelry.

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Speaker 4: Obviously it's going.

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Speaker 2: To be a hot spot on New Year's Eve, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that security was so lax in and of

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Speaker 2: itself raises massive questions.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go ahead and take a look at that

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Speaker 3: video which is queued up right here. This is on CNN.

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Speaker 3: We can go ahead and.

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Speaker 8: The clip last Marti Gras.

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Speaker 9: This happened to an extent, maybe not terrorism, but still

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Speaker 9: people getting hit in mass population with the vehicles those

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Speaker 9: barricades were not on period. They had the flimsy orange

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Speaker 9: ones that you could just push over with your finger.

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Speaker 8: We actually thought it was.

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Speaker 9: Kind of odd because usually when you get to Bourbon

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Speaker 9: Street you can turn your back to Canal and not

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Speaker 9: worry about anything.

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Speaker 8: You can just walk the street, especially.

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Speaker 9: On New Year's and there was still vehicles to come

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Speaker 9: in after eight pm.

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Speaker 8: And then I mean the fact that they never raised them.

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Speaker 9: That's how this guy was able to get down Bourbon

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Speaker 9: Street so quickly and cause so much damage. Because there's

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Speaker 9: other barricades past the Canal and Bourbon intersection. There's more

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Speaker 9: like every two three blocks. So what was ten or

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Speaker 9: fifteen dead and thirty one dude could have only been

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Speaker 9: maybe five and fifteen. I mean, who can say, but

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Speaker 9: it definitely would have been minimalized because this truck cannot

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Speaker 9: go around those barricades. Everything in New Orleans in the

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Speaker 9: French Quarter has about all the balconies have poll several steels,

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Speaker 9: and there's there's.

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Speaker 8: No going around anything. If that barricade's up, that's a wrap.

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Speaker 8: That's your end.

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Speaker 10: So just to be clear, you're saying that they were

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Speaker 10: just flimsy, the flimsy orange barricades that weren't weren't up

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Speaker 10: that they weren't the same barricades there as elsewhere.

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Speaker 8: No, they were. The metal ones were absolutely not engaged.

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Speaker 10: Well, And that struck you at the time, right, because

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Speaker 10: there was that twenty seventeen incident with Marty Bras where

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Speaker 10: a drunk driver or drove through. And so from what

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Speaker 10: my understanding is, they increase security measures in that area

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Speaker 10: because of what happened there. But what you're saying is

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Speaker 10: that you didn't see the security that should have been

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Speaker 10: there to protect the revelers.

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Speaker 9: We were walking right across it, like as you walk

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Speaker 9: down Bourbon, you cross like five of them, and then

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Speaker 9: even when you turn off the side.

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Speaker 8: Streets of Bourbon, there's more.

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Speaker 9: Like there's the precautions are there and everything's implicated.

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Speaker 8: You just have to use it.

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Speaker 3: Now, just for a flavor of how the FBI's response

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Speaker 3: changed over the course of the day, the Associated Press

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Speaker 3: confirmed investigators have reviewed video of three men and a

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Speaker 3: woman placing explosives in connection with the deadly car attacked

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Speaker 3: in New Orleans French Quarter. The FBI does not believe

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Speaker 3: the driver acted alone, so now there are three other suspects.

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Speaker 3: This is in the middle of the day yesterday, there

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Speaker 3: are three other suspects that are potentially being investigated as

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Speaker 3: part of a terrorism cell and are loose ostensibly in

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Speaker 3: the country, and the FBI then walks that back later

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Speaker 3: in the day. So let's take a look at this

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Speaker 3: report from CNN.

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Speaker 8: Getting new information.

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Speaker 9: You're getting some clarification from a law enforcement officials.

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Speaker 8: What are you learning.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, Well, for one of the things we have been

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Speaker 11: focused on is the FBI certainly was looking at this

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Speaker 11: surveillance video that at the time at least appeared to

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Speaker 11: show that there were other people who may have been

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Speaker 11: involved in placing devices in the French Quarter. Now we

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Speaker 11: know that law enforcement now has determined that those people

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Speaker 11: had nothing to do with this incident. At this point,

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Speaker 11: it appears that those people seen on surveillance video did

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Speaker 11: not have anything to do with replacing devices in the

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Speaker 11: French Quarter, that this suspect was solely responsible, certainly for

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Speaker 11: the attack, at least as we know it at this point.

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Speaker 11: Now we should make clear that the FBI is still

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Speaker 11: looking at possible associates. They're trying to see whether there's

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Speaker 11: anybody who may have been involved in helping to create

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Speaker 11: the devices, the IDs, whether those people, anybody who might

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Speaker 11: have been involved in helping to plan the attack. But

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Speaker 11: at this point, at least for the on the part

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Speaker 11: of the surveillance video, they now believe that those people

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Speaker 11: had absolutely nothing to do with this. At this actual

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Speaker 11: attack that happened this morning, Well, all right, we're an

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Speaker 11: information indeed.

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Speaker 3: So Christal. It also appeared that reporters like Press actually

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Speaker 3: got to the suspect's house in Houston before the FBI.

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Speaker 3: That's so far we have yeah New York posts saying

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Speaker 3: they were there before the FBI was there, before law

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Speaker 3: enforcement was there. And just to go back briefly to

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Speaker 3: the moment at the disastrous, insane press conference in the

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Speaker 3: middle of the day yesterday when John Kennedy made his

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Speaker 3: weird little joke, what he also did was basically box

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Speaker 3: the FBI director out to get to the podium and

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Speaker 3: make remarks. And the reason I think that's important is

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Speaker 3: I can imagine if you're in Louisiana and your constituents

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Speaker 3: are still lying on the ground on Bourbon, you are

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Speaker 3: probably enormously frustrated with the FBI. It came out right

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Speaker 3: away for some reasons, so that we weren't investigating it

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Speaker 3: as terrorism. Then flipped immediately on it later in the

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Speaker 3: day would do the same thing, like there's a level

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Speaker 3: of incompetence that he may have been reacting there. Now

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Speaker 3: that's we have no idea why he actually like boxed

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Speaker 3: out the FBI director. But it was a horrible day

396
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Speaker 3: for the FBI. Yes, there's absolutely no question about it.

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Speaker 3: These things are incredibly difficult. Obviously, that's true. There's a

398
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Speaker 3: few situation, thousands of people, there's lots of CCTV footage

399
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Speaker 3: because it's Bourbon Street, there's lots of mobile phone video,

400
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Speaker 3: obviously because it was New Year's Eve. That said, how

401
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Speaker 3: you get from alerting the country to three possible terrorists

402
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Speaker 3: being on the loose because you're seeing them plant IEDs

403
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Speaker 3: and CCTV footage that you're confirming that to the press,

404
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 3: and then hours later saying, oh, no, we don't think

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Speaker 3: that they were planning IDs. That was stunning reversal after

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Speaker 3: the other, stunning reversal and the terrorism question.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: And the first thing that you know, even just as

409
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Speaker 2: a you know, an analyst covering these things, is that

410
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Speaker 2: the initial stories often change. Initial perception of what happened

411
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Speaker 2: often changes. You would think the FBI would be the

412
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Speaker 2: ones to you know, be most well aware of that.

413
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Speaker 2: So to be leaking to journalists like, oh, I think

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Speaker 2: it's this larger like isis terror cyle based on you know,

415
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Speaker 2: a video that then they immediately go out and find out, Oh,

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Speaker 2: now they were just you know, partygoers, like doing whatever

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Speaker 2: they were doing.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 4: It's truly it's truly.

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Speaker 2: Outrageous, and as I said before, I think they are.

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Speaker 2: There are still some questions remaining about whether or not

422
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Speaker 2: he acted alone, but at least according to NBC News,

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Speaker 2: they said, the only indication that law enforcement had that

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Speaker 2: he hadn't been the you know, the lone wolf here.

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Speaker 4: Was that video.

426
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Speaker 2: So if there is other evidence, you know, they hadn't

427
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Speaker 2: uncovered it as of yet, that there were other people

428
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Speaker 2: who were involved in this.

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Speaker 7: You know.

430
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Speaker 2: The indications at least at this point are that you know,

431
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Speaker 2: he lost his mind for whatever reason, decided to do

432
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Speaker 2: some let me grab my ICEIS flag and do some

433
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Speaker 2: you know, horrific attack on innocent people, and perpetrated this.

434
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Speaker 2: Came up with this on his own, is what the

435
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: indication is at this point. The other thing and this

436
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Speaker 2: will help us transition into the other violent event. Yesterday

437
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Speaker 2: on New Year's day. So there were a few things

438
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Speaker 2: that surface level seemed to sort of connect.

439
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Speaker 4: This attack with the this Vegas attacks.

440
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Speaker 2: So you have someone who drove up in a cyber

441
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: truck Tesla of course, manufacturer owned by Elon Musk manufacturer,

442
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: the cyber truck outside of the Trump hotel and then

443
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: detonates a bunch of explosives there, killing himself and injuring

444
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: I think something like seven people who were nearby. So

445
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: both vehicles were electric used in both attacks. Both attacks

446
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: used vehicles, both rented from this same It's like a

447
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: peer to peer rental car agency where it's like, you know,

448
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: you can personally say, hey, my car is available for

449
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 2: you to rent. That's what this That's what this app

450
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 2: effectively was. And then the other thing is they both

451
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: are apparently former military. Now it doesn't appear thus far

452
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: that there are actually any lengths these seem to be coincidences,

453
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 2: but in any case, that's being investigated at this point.

454
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: The fact that there were weirdly some surface level similarities

455
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 2: between these two dispert attacks.

456
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was as this was playing out yesterday,

457
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: it was obviously you had the FBI saying there may

458
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 3: have been multiple people involved, and then we start learning

459
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 3: more about the cyber truck explosion outside of Trump Tower

460
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: and Las Vegas, and it starts to look incredibly frightening,

461
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 3: immediately frightening because it seems that there's like a chain

462
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: reaction happening around the country potentially. And to your point, Crystal,

463
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: we're going to learn a lot more about what radicalized

464
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 3: this suspect, and that'll, I mean, that's an interesting and

465
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 3: unanswered question right now is basically what the hell happened.

466
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 3: This is somebody who was in the military, as you

467
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 3: heard President Biden say just a few moments ago when

468
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 3: we played the video from his Camp David press conference,

469
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: somebody who was in the Army reserves until not that

470
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 3: long ago, seemingly normal person who.

471
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 4: Was working Malloy, born here, normal white collar job.

472
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 3: I believe the suspect's parents were also born here. Not

473
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: connected unless there are other suspects that we learn of,

474
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 3: but not connected to any type of immigration. That was

475
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 3: another thing that was playing out yesterday. The car itself

476
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: had gone through Eagle Pass, Texas multiple times, that had

477
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 3: he had rented on Tourow the app To your point,

478
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 3: so there's so much more to the story. That we

479
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: still don't know, but I do know one thing. A

480
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 3: lot of people are not at this moment feeling probably

481
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 3: very confident and what the FBI says as things transpire. Now,

482
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 3: some breaking news. The FBI is set to brief Congress

483
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 3: on Thursday, so there should be Congresses back in town,

484
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 3: the new Congress in session. We're actually going to talk

485
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 3: about how difficult that will be for Republicans in just

486
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 3: a bit, because as they seek to turn the screws

487
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: on the FBI and to get a new FBI director

488
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: confirmed in the Senate, at least over on the House side,

489
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 3: Mike Johnson has one vote margin. So a lot to

490
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: come later this week, and a lot of questions that

491
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 3: remain unanswered.

492
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: All Right, So we've referred now a couple of times

493
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: this other violent incident that occurred yesterday, which thankfully resulted

494
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: in much lower loss of life than that vehicle attack

495
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 2: down in New Orleans. But yesterday cyber truck pulled up

496
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: outside of the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas and then

497
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 2: reportedly after sitting there for fifteen or twenty seconds, explodes.

498
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 2: Now we have some video I can show you, so

499
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: we'll ultimately the driver himself, who perpetrated what is being

500
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: described as an intentional act. He's the only person who

501
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: died in this attack. There were something like seven people

502
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: who were standing nearby who were also injured, but thankfully

503
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: again lower loss of life here. But in any case,

504
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: let's take a look at this stunning video of what

505
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: occurred here copy so you can actually see these like

506
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: fireworks exploding. And sure enough, after the fact, when they

507
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: got a look at the truck itself, you can see

508
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: here them you know, carrying this tarp and revealing the

509
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: contents of this truck. You can see these firework canisters,

510
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: gasoline canisters, camp fuel canisters, and they say large firework

511
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: mortars in the back of this cyber truck that exploded.

512
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: So Elon Musk got involved immediately and helped out law

513
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 2: enforcement trying to you know, first unlock the car which

514
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 2: had automatically locked, and then investigating to see, you know,

515
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 2: was this some weird like Tesla problem where the vehicle

516
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: just exploded out of nowhere and no, he says, we

517
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: have now confirmed that the explosion was caused by very

518
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: large fireworks and or a bomb carried in the bed

519
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: of the rented cyber truck and is unrelated to the

520
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: vehicle itself. All vehicle telemetry was positive at the time

521
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: of the explosion, and as I just mentioned, Emily, you

522
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 2: also had a law enforcement confirming that this was being

523
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: investigated as an intentional act. And you know, obviously you

524
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: could see the symbolism here. You've got the cyber truck,

525
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: which is Elon Musk, who's obviously closely affiliated with the

526
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: Trump administration. You got the Trump hotel, et cetera. So

527
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: let's take a listen to a little bit of the

528
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: reporting here.

529
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 12: Let's talk about Las Vegas, because this has been a

530
00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 12: sort of interesting development.

531
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 7: You know that the images of.

532
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 12: The cyber truck parked outside the Las Vegas Trump property

533
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 12: when viral, you know, sort of I think people thought

534
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 12: it was an accident, and then it was heard and

535
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 12: so there was a sort of bizarre symbolism and that

536
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 12: it was a cyber truck, it was out Trump. As

537
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 12: it's developed, it seems that this is being taken far

538
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 12: more seriously. What do we learned about what authorities know

539
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 12: and how they're investigating this.

540
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 13: Right, Chris, So, according to the reporting of myself, my

541
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 13: colleagues Andrew Blankstein and Kelly O'Donnell, right now, three senior

542
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 13: US law enforcement officials say that this explosion of a

543
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 13: Tesla cybertruck kind of in the portico there where you

544
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 13: saw that smoke rising from in front of Trump's property

545
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 13: in Las Vegas is being investigated in at least initially,

546
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 13: is a potential act of terrorism, and that it was

547
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 13: quote intentional.

548
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: So there you go, another potential act of terrorism appears

549
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: very much to be intentional when you're driving around with

550
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: you know, a bunch of fireworks and yas canisters and

551
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: other explosives would seem very much to indicate that this

552
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: individual intended for this to happen. And I'll just give

553
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: you the last couple pieces that we know here. As

554
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: we mentioned before, you know, there are some surface level

555
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: connections I don't want to say connections, but similarities is

556
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 2: the better word, between this vehicle based attack and the

557
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 2: other vehicle based attack in New Orleans. The most noteworthy

558
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: of this was the fact that they both both vehicles

559
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: were electric and both were rented through the rental car

560
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: app Toro, where people can put up their own vehicles

561
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 2: to rent out to the public. I don't know, perhaps

562
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: that's just like they thought, both thought that this would

563
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: be a way for the vehicles not to be tracked,

564
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: or the easiest way to get the particular type of

565
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 2: vehicle that they were looking to get. I don't know

566
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:47,479
Speaker 2: how easy it is to rent a cyber truck from

567
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: a traditional rental agency. But in addition to them both

568
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 2: using vehicles, both using these this rental car app they

569
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 2: also both were former military. So this is who authority

570
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: he said perpetrated this attack and ended up killing himself

571
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: in this attack. Matthew Livelsberger, thirty seven, identified as the

572
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: drive of the cyber truck that exploded in Vegas, listened

573
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: on LinkedIn as an operations director and intelligence manager who

574
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: apparently is former Green Beret. So at this point, that's

575
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: about all we know about this particular attack in Las Vegas,

576
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 2: which killed the driver and injured a number of passers by.

577
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 3: And both obviously used trucks as well. So those are

578
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 3: I think more I mean, they're superficial to your point, Crystal,

579
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 3: because they're all on the surface level, but they're pretty

580
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 3: I think, interesting parallels. And it took a long time

581
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 3: for people to talk about what was happening in the

582
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: same breath yesterday. We didn't hear it from media and

583
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: law enforcement, but it would seem to have been a

584
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 3: fairly obvious question. Trump obviously was at mar A Lago.

585
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: He was not at Las Vegas, so there's no threat

586
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: to Trump himself. But I mean, just we may learn

587
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: that they have apps nothing to do with each other.

588
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: But the questions I think on the minds of a

589
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: lot of the American people who now see two different

590
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: things happening on two different coasts almost at the same time,

591
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 3: or within hours of each other. I mean the I

592
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 3: shouldn't say almost at the same time, but really within

593
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: the twenty four hour span, really was within I think

594
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 3: a twelve hour span roughly. That raises questions and the

595
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 3: answer so far has been again entirely unsatisfying.

596
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: So apparently law enforcement is investigating to see if there's

597
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: any potential link between these two attacks. So far, they

598
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: have not indicated that there are any other than these,

599
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 2: you know, sort of surface level similarities. But yeah, it's

600
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 2: to your point when we were talking about the New

601
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: Orleans attack, like there was a very scary period of

602
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 2: time yesterday when law enforcement comes out and says, oh, well,

603
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: there were actually this wasn't just this lone wolf and Orleans.

604
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 2: We have video of these other accomplices who were still

605
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 2: at large. And then that's at the same time that

606
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: you're just starting to get these details that oh, the

607
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: cyber truck didn't just randomly blow up, this was another

608
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: intentional act potentially being investigated as terrorism. It certainly raised,

609
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: you know, as there are there going to be a

610
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: series of more attacks in the country. So far, there's,

611
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 2: as I said, there's no indication the two were linked.

612
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 2: It looks like two separate lone wolf psychos who decided,

613
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: for whatever reason or whatever irrational reason their brain's concocted

614
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: to try to hurt and kill innocent people who were

615
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: just going about living their lives. But you know, that's

616
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: still being still being investigated at this point to see

617
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: if there's any potential connection here. But as best we

618
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 2: can tell, you know, I think we have we have

619
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: certainly more details about the attacker in New Orleans, and

620
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 2: you know, looks like someone who was going about his

621
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: life do and okay, and then hit a rough patch.

622
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: She was also under financial distress, had this difficult divorce

623
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: and appears to have just completely lost his mind and

624
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 2: was thinking about killing his own family and then decides

625
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: instead to kill a bunch of innocent, random civilians on

626
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: you know, New Year's Day, early in the early mornings

627
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 2: of New Year's Day. So welcome to twenty twenty five.

628
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 2: Not going so well, so so far?

629
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, on that point, there was it was

630
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 3: insane in like twenty four hours of New Year's where

631
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 3: he had symbolically a little lightning strike hit the capital,

632
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 3: hit the Washington Monument, and all of this happens like

633
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,959
Speaker 3: starts unfolding within like twelve hours of the New year.

634
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 3: Not a great start, Crystal.

635
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 4: But just even omen not yeah.

636
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 3: Seriously, seriously, And just a last point on that former

637
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: military I think is just cannot gloss over how important

638
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: that is. And the time spin is enough that it

639
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: potentially allows for thisman to have been the suspect in

640
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: Las Vegas, to have been animated in some way. You know,

641
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 3: we're likely dealing with somebody who had some level of

642
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 3: mental illness but could have potentially been animated in one

643
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,439
Speaker 3: way or another by what happened in New Orleans. There's

644
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 3: enough time that whatever the motivation was, maybe it's like

645
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: something is a reaction in one way or another to

646
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 3: what had happened in New Orleans. In the Las Vegas

647
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 3: case as well. So a lot more to be, a

648
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 3: lot more questions to be asked, and hopefully we'll get

649
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 3: those answers sooner rather than later.

650
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: So, guys, earlier this week we covered this whole in Bruglio.

651
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 4: Is that how you say that word?

652
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 2: I never know between Elon Musk and Vivek versus Laura

653
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: Lumer and a bunch of other magatypes fundamentally of immigration,

654
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 2: but specifically over H one B visas and quote unquote

655
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: high skilled immigration. So at the time when we spoke

656
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: to you last Trump had given some comments to The

657
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: New York Post that we're I guess still a little

658
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 2: bit cryptic, but he was like, I like H one

659
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: B and in fact, I use many H one B

660
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: visas on my own properties, which I don't even think

661
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: is true. I think he means H two B visas.

662
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: But in any case, seems very much like he was

663
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: siding with Elon. However, I did see some of his

664
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: supporters who are on the more like mega like anti

665
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 2: immigrant right, who were kind of coping over this, saying

666
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 2: until I hear from his mouth, I'm not going to

667
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: believe anything, blah blah blah.

668
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 4: Well he got asked about this.

669
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: Trump did on New Year's Eve at his annual mar

670
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 2: A Lago party and made it pretty clear where he

671
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: stands on issue at this point.

672
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen, change your mind.

673
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 9: Changed.

674
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 5: I've always felt we have the most confident people in

675
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 5: our gunt.

676
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 7: We need cooput in people.

677
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 8: We each smart people coming in drug gun June.

678
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 7: We need a lot of people coming in.

679
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 14: We're gonna have jobs like we've never had before.

680
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: But you choose, we need a lot of people coming

681
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: in Emily. Now, I'm old enough to remember when at

682
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: the r and C the crowd was holding mass deportation

683
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 2: now signs. Jade Vance at the RNC gave a speech

684
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 2: about how no longer would they let foreign workers come

685
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: in and replace American workers. So, since getting Elon Musks

686
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty million dollars into his campaign, his

687
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: tone does seem to have shifted a bit on this issue.

688
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, the mass deportations can theoretically exist alongside

689
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: H one B visus, Like there's an ideological way that

690
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: you can say we're deporting illegal immigrants and then we're

691
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 3: going to bring in the best and the brightest. But

692
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: that's not the position that Donald Trump has taken in

693
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 3: the past, and it's not the position of people like

694
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 3: Stephen Miller and people who are so hawkish on immigration

695
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 3: that they believe in this is typically for cultural reasons

696
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 3: and alongside labor reasons that they believe basically the country

697
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 3: is full, is the way that they'll say it. We

698
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 3: have to integrate people who are already here culturally and

699
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 3: assimilar people who are already here culturally, and we cannot continue

700
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 3: to import workers that are undermining American workers. So no immigration,

701
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: full moratorium. Legal immigration has to be reduced dramatically, if

702
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 3: not entirely curbed. You have to get rid of all

703
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: of these visa programs. That is not something that can

704
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:26,120
Speaker 3: exist alongside H one B visa is without significant reform.

705
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: Elon Musk you've probably seen this. Crystal has come out

706
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 3: and said you, basically, we all believe that there should

707
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 3: be reforms to H one BES, which is I think

708
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 3: an easy thing to say. It's another question of what

709
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 3: happens when people actually try to make those reforms and

710
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: what they end up looking like, and who weighs in

711
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 3: to potentially stop them if they are a threat to

712
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 3: the way Silicon Valley does business, which this is important

713
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 3: to their bottom line because they you can see just

714
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 3: the reaction from people over the last both weeks how

715
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 3: important it is to their bottom line.

716
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:05,799
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a major issue for Silicon Valley. And

717
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: you knew this back when Trump went on the All

718
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: In podcast. And this is one of the things that

719
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: he promised the tech bro crew, including you know, David

720
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: Saxson and the rest of the gang there. This is

721
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: like one of the things that he talked about and

722
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: he promised, So for those of us who've been listening carefully,

723
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 2: it wasn't a surprise that he had made this dramatic

724
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: pivot from the way he had positioned himself back in

725
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty and twenty sixteen. You know, just to clarify

726
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 2: again my position, I support more legal immigration, more pathways

727
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: to citizenship high skilled and low skilled. But the problem

728
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: with this program, and effectively with all guessworker programs, is

729
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: it does create it that create this indentured servant class

730
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 2: that is completely beholden to, you know, whatever, whether their

731
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 2: corporate boss once in there, their immigration status depends on

732
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 2: pleasing their corporate boss. They frequently are under paid. You know,

733
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: they're also used as a tool to like, you know,

734
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: bust unions, because if you've got this workforce there that is,

735
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: you know, can only stay in the country so long

736
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: as they keep the boss pleased, then they may not

737
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 2: want to do something as adversarial as start a union,

738
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 2: et cetera, join a union, et cetera. And so, you know,

739
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: those programs are fundamentally exploited. It both for the workers

740
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: themselves and also have a deliterious effect on the existing workforce.

741
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: It's also worth really noting something that people been you know,

742
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 2: pulling up and noting on Twitter. Tesla among other tech

743
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 2: companies laid off thousands of American workers at the same

744
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: time that they're claiming because you have to in order

745
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 2: to you know, get one of these H one B

746
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 2: visas that you can use for your company, you have

747
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 2: to claim there's no American worker who can fill this role.

748
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: And so at the same time they're claiming, oh, we

749
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: can't get anyone to fill these positions, you're laying off

750
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: thousands of American workers. So for Elon Musk, it's very

751
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 2: clear what's going on here, you know, And for the

752
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: rest of the tech oligarchs, it's very clear what's going on.

753
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: They like having an exploitable, easily manipulated, lower paid workforce,

754
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,359
Speaker 2: and they consider that to be really important to them,

755
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 2: and they're you know, capitalist bottom line. Just to show you,

756
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 2: so to give you a little visual representation of Elon's influence,

757
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 2: here can see him here, you know, vibing with little

758
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: X on his shoulders, who is absolutely adorable. Starting with

759
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: Trump at mar a Lago. There's a New York Times

760
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 2: report that he just he's just staying at the cottage

761
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: at mar Alago. I saw someone on Twitter. It was like,

762
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: you know, he's smart enough to realize Trump is very

763
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 2: influenced by the last person he talked to, So he's

764
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 2: just kind of post up and mar Alago and always

765
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: be the last person who talks to Donald Trump. But

766
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: even beyond that, I think this deal was already made

767
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: back when Elon basically like rescued his campaign. And who

768
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 2: knows if he would have want or not if Elon

769
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: wasn't involved in his money, et cetera, et cetera. But

770
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: certainly possible that that quarter of a billion dollars plus

771
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 2: organizing efforts on the ground was determinative given how close

772
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: a margin the race ends up ultimately being.

773
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and that means there's a sort of debt

774
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 3: of gratitude so to speak that you would imagine Donald Trump,

775
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 3: oh was Elon Musk and in this case Crystal. There

776
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 3: was some reporting several years ago it was a big

777
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 3: controversy at the time that Disney had laid off American

778
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 3: workers and actually had them training their replacements. Again, it

779
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 3: was splashy at the time, but sort of faded from

780
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 3: the headlines, as you can imagine. But what's important about that,

781
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 3: in combination with something you just said, is that you

782
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 3: have to say you can't hire Americans xy, like this

783
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 3: is the most qualified person blah blah to get your

784
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 3: h one B. That's already a protective measure intended to

785
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 3: be in the law, and so when you come in

786
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 3: and say I'm making reforms, this is going to be

787
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 3: even more stringent. Value. If they stop protesting usually means

788
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: they found a way around whatever the reform is. Usually

789
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 3: means they feel comfortable that they can still continue to

790
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: hire people with these ways that are like beneficial to

791
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: their bottom lines and undercutting American workers. Because if you

792
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: look at what happened with Disney, for example, it just

793
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: raises this obvious point, which is if they can do it,

794
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 3: why wouldn't they If they are about maximizing shareholder value,

795
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: why would they not do that If they can do it,

796
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 3: if they can get away with it. Obviously they don't

797
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 3: want the negative media attention that was fairly disastrous for Disney,

798
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 3: but now nobody even knows it really happened. So if

799
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 3: they can do it, why wouldn't they, And that means

800
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 3: they're always.

801
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 2: As Trump's rationale too. I mean, he apparently has maybe

802
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 2: a few, has applied for a few H one B visas,

803
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: which are like the you know, knowledge workers. H two

804
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 2: B is applies to hospitality and other seasonal work. So

805
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: like hospitality, agriculture and things like that, he is long

806
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 2: used at his properties many h to be visas. And

807
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: so it's important for people to remember, in spite of

808
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: the way Trump has brandoned himself, he ultimately you know,

809
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: his class interest and ideological positioning are very much aligned

810
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: with Elon Musk. So you know, for him to come

811
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 2: out totally change his position and don't let him fool

812
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: you like this is a change in position, no one

813
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: should be surprised because he avails himself and benefits from

814
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:33,439
Speaker 2: this very same very exploitative system of visas which are

815
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 2: tied to your employment, so if you piss off your employer,

816
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: you get deported.

817
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 4: That is a.

818
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 2: Fundamentally exploitative relationship that you know, even lefties like me

819
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 2: who think that immigrants are good for the country and

820
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: want more pathways as citizenship, et cetera, like, this is

821
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 2: a bad way to do immigration because it's bad for

822
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 2: the person coming in and it's bad for the workers

823
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: that you are undercutting with these lower wages and more

824
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,080
Speaker 2: exploitative labor practices.

825
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not as though there's no way to bring

826
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 3: in the best talent in the world. I think that's

827
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,839
Speaker 3: entirely possible. But the way these laws are written, like

828
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 3: you can pokem full of holes like Swiss cheese. If

829
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 3: you have you know the resources, and you're a massive firm,

830
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 3: multi billion dollar company or anything like that, you can

831
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 3: you can find a way around all of these different

832
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 3: things that might hurt mid size or smaller businesses who

833
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 3: are trying to use the same practices. And that's why

834
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 3: there's no like, yes, h one bv's is if you

835
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 3: put Steven Miller in charge of them, that's a threat

836
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 3: to Silicon Valley. But there's always a confidence in the

837
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: industry that they're able to write these laws in a

838
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: way that's still worse for them, even if there are

839
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 3: restrictions or reforms or whatever. So that's why, you know,

840
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 3: I take seriously the idea that the program should be

841
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 3: reformed if it's espoused by or endorsed by people like

842
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 3: Elon Musk. I think that's great, but incredibly incredibly suspicious

843
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 3: that it would really happen in a way, a meaningful way.

844
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: Let's take a look, just for the record, at a

845
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 2: compilation of how Trump talked about this issue in twenty sixteen,

846
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: how we talked about it in twenty twenty, and then

847
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,240
Speaker 2: we've already played for you what he just said, indicating quote,

848
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: we need a lot of people coming in. Let's take

849
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 2: a listen to this.

850
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 13: Nobody knows the system better than me.

851
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 8: I know the H one B, I know the H

852
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 8: two B. Nobody knows it better than me.

853
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 12: I know the H one B very well, and it's

854
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 12: something that I frankly use and I shouldn't.

855
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 7: Be allowed to use.

856
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 8: We shouldn't have it very very bad for workers.

857
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 15: As we speak, we're finalizing H one B regulation so

858
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 15: that no American workers replaced.

859
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 8: Ever, again, H one B should be used.

860
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 13: For top highly paid talent.

861
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 16: To create American jobs, not as an expensive labor program

862
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 16: to destroy American jobs.

863
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 2: So there you go, and then they just play the

864
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and he's not the only one. Emily,

865
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: this is kind of funny. Who has really changed his

866
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 2: tune with regards to this very specific topic. So Vivek Ramaswami,

867
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 2: who on Monday, you probably recall, we covered he put

868
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: out that tweet like attacking American culture as being mediocre

869
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 2: and pushing great mediocrity because of our sitcoms that we

870
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 2: watched in the nineties and hanging out at them all

871
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 2: or whatever, all in order to back up Elon's position

872
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 2: and now Trump's position on H one B visas back

873
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: in October, not like years ago. I'm talking about literally

874
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 2: this October twenty twenty four, he sounded.

875
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 4: Very different on the topic. Let's take a listen.

876
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 15: A lot of the people who have come here through

877
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 15: the H one B system would tell you, as I would,

878
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 15: that it is just a broken system.

879
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 7: No matter who you're seeking to serve.

880
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 15: For example, you want to talk about special interests in lobbying,

881
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 15: this is direct Silicon Valley lobbying that said that if

882
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 15: you get your H one bbs and you're hired by

883
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 15: one company, you're effectively like a slave. You can't switch

884
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 15: to a different company. That's not a free labor market.

885
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 15: So there's so much that's broken and bureaucratized. Here's the

886
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 15: next question about one visa system is why the heck

887
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 15: do we do it on the basis of a lottery

888
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 15: when you could actually just select the very best people.

889
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 15: So there's a lot that's broken about the administrative state,

890
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 15: the bureaucracy.

891
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 8: My general approach is when something's.

892
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 15: Broken in government, you can't really fix it when it's

893
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 15: lasted that long. You need to shut it down, start

894
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 15: with the blank slate, and rebuild from scratch. And that's

895
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 15: just a stylistic point that I've applied to this issue

896
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:22,759
Speaker 15: as to any other.

897
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: So that particular, that last part where it is like

898
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: there's no reform, you just got to get rid of it,

899
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 2: is particularly important because people had surfaced some of his

900
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: comments before that were critical of H one B's and

901
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: he's like, I didn't change my position. I've always been

902
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: for reform. I'm still for reform. But this makes it

903
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 2: pretty clear, like, no, you weren't just talking about reform,

904
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: you were saying a broken system. You really can't fix it.

905
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 2: You just got to you just got to get rid

906
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,400
Speaker 2: of it all together. And so you know, he really

907
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 2: is kind of caught here also, I guess, deciding to

908
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 2: kowtow to his fellow billionaire. He is also a billionaire,

909
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,280
Speaker 2: although I guess a lesser billionaire than Elon musk Ski's

910
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 2: mill near single or double billionaire as opposed to whatever

911
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 2: Elon musk has, but you know, ultimately allowing aligning here

912
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: with his own class interests.

913
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 3: Yes, that was a fairly detailed and substantive, well thought

914
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: out argument against Ahwan BB's there's no way around it.

915
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: And what sucks for the American worker is it also

916
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 3: used to be something that a lot of people, even

917
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 3: like higher profile people Bernie Sanders on the left, used

918
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 3: to make a substantive and serious argument against as well.

919
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 3: And it just it's so to your point about Silicon Valley,

920
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 3: it's so valuable to them that we've seen those arguments

921
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 3: just sort of melt away, and this idea that it

922
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 3: could be reformed without as vivaid I actually basically agreed

923
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: with what he said in the conversation that we just played,

924
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: because when you start quote unquote reforming things, you end

925
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 3: up with those holes like Swiss cheese being poked in

926
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 3: by lobbyists and industry, which is a system that we

927
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 3: have now, it's a system likely we would have under

928
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 3: a seriously reformed version of H one B visus. So

929
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 3: to see the change in rhetoric is just a it's

930
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,399
Speaker 3: a small sample of what America workers have been dealing

931
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 3: with for decades from the political class.

932
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is quite remarkable. I mean, you know,

933
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 2: I think I think when we talk to Row, I

934
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: think he's got some good ideas, working bipartisan in a

935
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 2: way to reform the program. But as long as immigration

936
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: status is tied to job status, that's going to end

937
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 2: up in you know, that's going to end up in exploitation.

938
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 2: So if you're someone who wants to have more immigration,

939
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 2: whether it's high skilled, low skilled, whatever, I really don't

940
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: think doing it through these guest worker programs, which is

941
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 2: something that you know, the left has long critiqued the

942
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: guessworker approach to immigration because of these labor dynamics that

943
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 2: it ultimately sets up. So, you know, the the last

944
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: thing that I'll say here is even though Trump has

945
00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 2: weighed in question, is not necessarily completely closed. Steve Bannon

946
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 2: has been very much on the warpath, specifically against Elon.

947
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing is like Laura Lumer all

948
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: these people like they never really go directly at Trump.

949
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: It's always like whatever proxy on the issue, and Trump's

950
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: just being misled. And of course we love Trump and

951
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 2: he would never do anything wrong, but like let me

952
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 2: sort of like do a round about critique of him.

953
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 2: But in anyway, in any case, Steve Bannon going very

954
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 2: aggressively still on this issue, really declaring war on it.

955
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and listen to some of his latest

956
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 2: comments here.

957
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,240
Speaker 16: I've said many times that Elon came, and Elon's money helped.

958
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 7: Organize the grassroots of it.

959
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 16: In his engineering mind, he saw what the problem was

960
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:46,000
Speaker 16: as we saw it, and he supported it, and for

961
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 16: that he gets a place at the table.

962
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 7: There's no doubt you should.

963
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 16: It's a quarter of a billion dollars in June, not

964
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 16: an entire cycle in five months. But that dinner with

965
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 16: sex and that check from Elon came at Biden's you know,

966
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 16: when Biden, you know, in the debate or right before

967
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 16: the debate and Biden, you know, they kind of saw

968
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 16: the numbers where this thing was heading. They're recent converts,

969
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 16: and we love converts. Hell, I'm gonna I'm a Catholic.

970
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 16: We used to be in the convert business. Not so

971
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 16: much anymore. We can't keep what we got. But in

972
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 16: the old days, you know, half the Saints are missionaries.

973
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 16: We loving converts. But the converts sit in the back

974
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 16: and study for years and years and years and make

975
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 16: sure you understand the faith, and you understand the nuances

976
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 16: of the faith, and understand how you can internalize the faith.

977
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 16: Don't come up and go to the pulpit in your

978
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 16: first week here and start lecturing people about the way

979
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:42,840
Speaker 16: things are going to be.

980
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:43,680
Speaker 7: If you're going to do.

981
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 16: That, we're gonna get and we're gonna rip your face

982
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 16: off because you can't beat us.

983
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 7: We're not beatable.

984
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 16: This army of the awakens not beatable because we're relentless

985
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 16: and we will never surrender and we will never slow down.

986
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 4: So there there you go.

987
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 2: We'll ripe your face off. We're not beatable, never surrender,

988
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: never viv back down. I don't know what do you

989
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 2: think is going to happen with this because I sort

990
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 2: of feel like, now that Trump has ad his piece,

991
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 2: they are going to just like get in line. And

992
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 2: I also find it creepy to compare the support for

993
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 2: a politician or political movement to like, you know, religion,

994
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 2: being a convert to your religion. I find that a

995
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: little disquieting myself. But anyway, go ahead.

996
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:30,439
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's interesting that it gets to this question,

997
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: how sincere their conversion to continue that to the Church

998
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 3: of MAGA actually was you know Bannon there. Bannon is

999
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 3: not gullible, He's not you know, sort of a silly

1000
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 3: person like he obviously understands that their conversion, the sincerity

1001
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 3: of their conversion is very much in question. What part

1002
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 3: of MAGA do they actually agree with? And they agree

1003
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: with kind of the doge part of MAGA, but the

1004
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: doge part of MAGA, and that don't touch in title.

1005
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 3: That's part of MAGA. That everyone will have healthcare part

1006
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 3: of MAGA, which means different things obviously depending on where

1007
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: you catch Trump and the Republican Party in any given day.

1008
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: Donald Trump tried to come to the table with Nancy

1009
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 3: Pelosi on DACA in his first term, which is easily

1010
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,760
Speaker 3: forgotten what MAGA means to Donald Trump and what MAGA

1011
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: means to Steve Bannon and Steve Bannon's many many followers

1012
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,360
Speaker 3: and listeners and the grass roots of the Republican Party

1013
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 3: tea Party activists who have been around the county Republican

1014
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 3: Party headquarters across the country for years. It means something

1015
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 3: very different to Elon Musk and to Steve Bannon and

1016
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,839
Speaker 3: to Donald Trump than it does to those people. Steve

1017
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 3: Bannon is more sort of has his finger more firmly

1018
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: on the pulse of what that looks like to the

1019
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 3: actual party faithful and grassroots. So the question, I think

1020
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 3: crystal is where the stacks on priorities. So if Donald

1021
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 3: Trump and Elon Musk continue to say we're plowing ahead

1022
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 3: with H one b's, maybe they do lift the cap.

1023
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 3: Which is what this all off was the AI Appointment

1024
00:55:02,719 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 3: putting out a tweet that said we should lift the cap,

1025
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 3: we should have unlimited. Basically, if they did something like that,

1026
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 3: It's one thing to just go along with the existing system.

1027
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 3: It's another thing entirely to say we're blowing up the system.

1028
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 3: There's no caps anymore. We're bringing over all of these

1029
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 3: people to compete with the American workforce. If they did that,

1030
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 3: Bannon's going to continue to absolutely raise Hell, and Bannon's

1031
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 3: followers will continue to absolutely raise Hell. And I don't

1032
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 3: think it goes away if they just sort of keep

1033
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 3: the system as it is. I mean, then I think

1034
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 3: everyone just kind of goes along for the ride. But

1035
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,000
Speaker 3: the question is what level of priority it stacks up

1036
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 3: as and that'll depend on I think what we see

1037
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:40,880
Speaker 3: right away.

1038
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: Well, because they are going to do some day one

1039
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 2: executive orders in the direction of quote unquote mass deportation,

1040
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: you know, how aggressively they move in that direction or

1041
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 2: not is a you know, still open question. But yeah,

1042
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:56,479
Speaker 2: you've still got Steven Miller in there effectively, and what's

1043
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 2: his face, Tom Holman, who's really, you know, very aggressively

1044
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 2: immigration hawkish restrictionists, who is the immigration czar. So you

1045
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:07,600
Speaker 2: still have some very hardline people who are going to

1046
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 2: put together a series of very hardline policies with regard

1047
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 2: to deportations. So yeah, I think that'll you know, satisfy

1048
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: the Steve Bannons of the world. And frankly, I think

1049
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: most Trump supporters have proven themselves to not be particularly ideological.

1050
00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 2: It is more of a cult of personality than it

1051
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: is a consistent ideological movement, because if it wasn't, like,

1052
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,920
Speaker 2: he's already betrayed the supposed tenants of trump Ism many times,

1053
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 2: like you said, trying to make a deal with Nancy

1054
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 2: Pelosi on Dhaka in the first administration, making his primary

1055
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: achievement in the first administration a giant Paul Ryan tax

1056
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: cut for the rich. And there was never any revolt

1057
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,920
Speaker 2: among the magabase over any of these things outside of

1058
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 2: like some minor complaints, minor bickering, And I don't see

1059
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: that as being any different this time around. The last thing,

1060
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: and I'll say on this with regard to the billionaires,

1061
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 2: is there's the reason why these billionaires flit back and

1062
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: forth between the parties. It's not because they're having some

1063
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,720
Speaker 2: like based awakening. It's because they're going wherever they think

1064
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 2: they can get the best deal for themselves, Where they

1065
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 2: think that they're very consistent ideology of like enriching themselves

1066
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 2: and being able to, you know, have the type of captive,

1067
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 2: exploitable workforce that they want to have. They're going to

1068
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 2: go to whichever party they think is most primed to

1069
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: deliver those results for them. Or wherever they think is

1070
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: most likely to win, whoever they think they can have

1071
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: the most influence with, etc. And so you know, that's

1072
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: that's what's going on here with Elon and David Zax

1073
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: and all these people who have you know, made some

1074
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 2: sort of a lot of the tech right that used

1075
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 2: to be in the Democratic Party, Mark Andresen being another

1076
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: example of that. It's not that they've had some sort

1077
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: of you know, ideological conversion, although they may talk about

1078
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: being anti woke or whatever, but mostly they just use

1079
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: that as a cloak, like Mark Andresen does for pushing

1080
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 2: through whatever their sort of bottom line capital interests are.

1081
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: And I'm referring specifically to you know, when he goes

1082
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 2: on with Joe Rogan attacks the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau,

1083
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: which has been decidedly a positive thing for American consumers

1084
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 2: and has delivered money back to them when they've been

1085
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 2: defrauded by companies. And he's had some portfolio companies that

1086
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 2: have come into their crosshairs before having scammy practices. He

1087
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 2: doesn't like the CFPB, but rather than directly talking about

1088
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 2: what it is he doesn't like about it, which is

1089
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: that it, you know, this regulatory body was negative for

1090
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,360
Speaker 2: him and his portfolio companies and his self interests, and

1091
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: steady cloaks it in this like, oh it's it's woke,

1092
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 2: and they're canceling conservatives and their debanking conservatives, which is

1093
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: total and complete nonsense. So you know, these guys are

1094
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: wolves in sheep's clothing. They don't align with by and large.

1095
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 2: There may be some areas where they have overlap with

1096
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 2: your interests, but they're looking out for themselves, whether they're

1097
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: glomming onto the Democratic Party or the glombing onto the

1098
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: Republican Party. The bottom line for them will always be

1099
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 2: the bottom line.

1100
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 3: And Bannon for a while said this is one maybe

1101
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: a crass way of putting it, but basically would look

1102
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,240
Speaker 3: at all of these tech guys who were coming into

1103
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 3: the MAGA movement and said, you're our useful idiots, right,

1104
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 3: We're using your money to undermine your interests. Because Bannon

1105
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 3: is a populist on the cultural and economic level, he's

1106
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 3: not just anti woke, he's like genuinely anti late stage

1107
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:33,160
Speaker 3: Western capitalism, and he would look at them that way.

1108
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: What he sees happening, I think accurately, is that MAGA

1109
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 3: is becoming the useful idiot of the money class. And

1110
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 3: that's that is a serious threat to Trump's second term.

1111
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 3: If you're a Steep Bannon type of populist, or if

1112
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 3: you're just an average American who saw in Donald Trump's

1113
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 3: somebody that would be extend to helping hand to you know,

1114
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 3: your interests. So yeah, if you're bringing these people into

1115
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 3: your movement and you think they're your useful idiots, you

1116
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,280
Speaker 3: can very easily become their useful idiots. Oh yeah at

1117
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 3: a moment on a whim. Yeah, yeah.

1118
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: Elon did not give a quarter of a billion dollars

1119
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,000
Speaker 2: to get nothing out of this deal. He is the

1120
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,920
Speaker 2: wealthiest man on the planet. He is extremely powerful, like

1121
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 2: he maybe he rivals Donald Trump in terms of his

1122
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 2: level of power. And I think to not see that

1123
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 2: from the jump is and was foolish, which is why

1124
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,240
Speaker 2: when Elon was and Vivigue, we're given their like doage

1125
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 2: Commissioner and was like, oh, they just gave them this

1126
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 2: make work project and it's like pathetic and good job

1127
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 2: for just kind of like pushing them to the side.

1128
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: I was always very skeptical of that because no, you

1129
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: are giving them this whole government mandate. The Trump administration

1130
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 2: has thought through specific legal mechanisms that they can use

1131
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 2: to try to effectuate some of the desires of Elon Musk.

1132
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 2: This person has the ear of the President and is

1133
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 2: in a very powerful position.

1134
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 3: And doesn't have to give up any of his business

1135
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 3: is in order to have advisory capacity.

1136
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: Exactly right, Whereas if he was directly in government, he

1137
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: would have to abide by these specific conflict of interest

1138
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: rules that any federal government appointee or employee has to

1139
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: deal with. So since he stays on the outside, he

1140
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 2: gets to keep all this stuff, but that does not

1141
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: mean that his power is ultimately diminished. And that's what

1142
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 2: really like outside the specific of H one bs and

1143
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 2: H two b's and all of the like, you know,

1144
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: the policy wonkery here, that's the meat of why this

1145
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:35,080
Speaker 2: story is so important is because you have your first

1146
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 2: very clear ideological difference between the Steve Bann and Stephen Miller,

1147
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 2: you know, Laura Lumer and culture that wing of the

1148
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 2: party and the Elon Musk billionaire capitalist wing in the party.

1149
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 2: And Elon won and it wasn't close. Trump sided with

1150
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 2: him unequivocally. So if there was any question about how

1151
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 2: this was going to go, I think we got a

1152
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:02,600
Speaker 2: pretty clear answer this time around, and there's no sign

1153
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: of you know, they're all this like, oh, maybe Elon's

1154
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 2: gonna overstep and Trump's not gonna like it, and blah

1155
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 2: blah blah. There's no sign of that. They seem to

1156
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 2: be getting along famously, fabulously. I'm not sure Trump really

1157
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,320
Speaker 2: cares that much about what happens in this administration. He's

1158
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,520
Speaker 2: staying out of jail. He doesn't have to run for

1159
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: reelection again. He can do what he wants to do.

1160
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,560
Speaker 2: He doesn't have to care what Maga thinks of him

1161
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 2: or Steve Bannon thinks of him, ultimately, because he doesn't

1162
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:27,360
Speaker 2: have to get re elected, and he rightly calculates that

1163
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, they're all just gonna

1164
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 2: probably go along with what he does anyway. So I

1165
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 2: think that's, you know, it's a preview very much of

1166
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 2: things to come.

1167
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1168
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it would have been interesting actually to see if

1169
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 3: Donald Trump had disagreed with Musk on H one b's

1170
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 3: how Musk would have reacted to that. So, yeah, it

1171
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 3: is a lot on your line.

1172
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and move on to this

1173
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: other Republican intra party fight.

1174
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 3: Congress is returning to Washington, DC with an incredibly razor

1175
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,560
Speaker 3: then margin for Republicans as they enter. I'll go ahead

1176
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 3: and share this first element. This is a story from

1177
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 3: Axios about basically what Mike Johnson has as he returns,

1178
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 3: which is a one vote margin. So just a little

1179
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 3: bit of context here, Axios writes House GOP hardliners continued

1180
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 3: hesitance to coalesce around Johnson suggests that President Like Trump's

1181
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 3: endorsement of the incumbent speaker has had little effect so far.

1182
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 3: Now this is a quote from Ralph Norman to Axios.

1183
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 3: He says, a quote growing number of members want at

1184
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 3: minimum assurances from Johnson on meaningful cuts to spending before

1185
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 3: they vote to re elect him. Now I'm going to

1186
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 3: share a second story. This is Donald Trump backing Mike

1187
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 3: Johnson for House Speaker endorsement. As speaker. He said that

1188
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: on Monday on Truth socially referred to Mike Johnson enthusiastically

1189
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:58,720
Speaker 3: actually as a quote good hard working religious man. He

1190
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 3: will do the right thing and we will continue to win,

1191
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 3: so said Donald Trump. Now this is interesting because there is,

1192
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 3: as Access reported, a movement among Freedom Caucus types or

1193
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 3: Freedom Caucus adjacent people like Thomas Massey also Chip Roy

1194
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 3: to block Mike Johnson from becoming speaker again. They're absolutely

1195
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 3: infuriated by how the omnibus negotiations transpired in late December,

1196
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 3: disgusted by it, said, we actually have the House of Representatives.

1197
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 3: You are the speaker. You are a Republican. Donald Trump

1198
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 3: just won what they believe was a mandate, and you

1199
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 3: are still governing like the political class has like you,

1200
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:40,960
Speaker 3: Mike Johnson stood up against before you were speaker, and

1201
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 3: we're basically heading into crystal. What I think is another

1202
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy's cycle here, where Mike Johnson is basically the

1203
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 3: only option that they have, so they're pushing right now.

1204
01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 3: They were sort of testing the waters that looked like,

1205
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 3: for example, chip Roy was testing the water to see

1206
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 3: if Jim Jordan was a plausible candidate that they could

1207
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 3: quickly see if Jim Jordan had enough momentum to just

1208
01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 3: be voted as speaker. But what I think we're heading

1209
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 3: towards more likely is another series of concessions from Mike

1210
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 3: Johnson to people like Chip Roy. They got some significant concessions,

1211
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 3: significant enough that McCarthy was ousted last time around by

1212
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 3: his own concessions to Matt Gates. One of the things

1213
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: was something called the very art like parliamentary arcane thing

1214
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,240
Speaker 3: called the motion to vacate, which was always around until

1215
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 3: Nancy Pelosi hilariously got rid of this, or she added

1216
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 3: a threshold and they got rid of that, which is

1217
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 3: how Matt Gates ultimately was able to oust Kevin McCarthy

1218
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 3: by bringing a vote on the speaker to the floor. So,

1219
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 3: you know, Mike Johnson might be in a position where

1220
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 3: he has to make some concessions that could ultimately be

1221
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 3: his undoing. But Republicans right now know in their conference

1222
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 3: that they don't really have anyone to rally around. That

1223
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 3: is a consensus point between the Centrists and the Freedom

1224
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 3: Caucus people when you have such a thin, thin, razor

1225
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 3: thin majority. As they head back to Washington, DC, so

1226
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 3: Mike Johnson has already technically lost the votes. Thomas Massey says, no,

1227
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 3: that's all he can afford to lose. It looks like

1228
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 3: Chip Roy is a no as of right now, but

1229
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 3: we'll see what happens. There's a lot going on behind

1230
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 3: the scenes with this.

1231
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got to get to eighteen unless people vote president.

1232
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,920
Speaker 2: The math is a little bit confusing, for this, but

1233
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 2: it's not enough to get a plurality. You have to

1234
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: get a majority of the members of Congress in the House,

1235
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,959
Speaker 2: which is why he can only afford to lose one.

1236
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 2: So Thomas Massey is a definite no. If you're saying

1237
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: Chip Roy is also likely to know, then that's it.

1238
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 2: He doesn't have the votes. Now does that mean that

1239
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson is not going to be the speaker? No,

1240
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson is ultimately, unless something crazy happens, which you

1241
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 2: never know, Mike Johnson is ultimately going to be the

1242
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 2: Speaker of the House, but not before going through what

1243
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm sure will be a very painful and public exercise

1244
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 2: of like you know, having to go back and forth

1245
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 2: and figure out what sort of concessions he's willing to

1246
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 2: give and what Thomas Massey at EL are willing to accept.

1247
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 2: And they have some bargaining chips to work with here. So,

1248
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 2: first of all, Trump has to be certified as president.

1249
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,120
Speaker 2: We all became intimately familiar with this electoral certification process

1250
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 2: January sixth, four years ago, and so it's got to

1251
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 2: be proved by the House. And if you don't have

1252
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 2: a speaker, you can't do anything. So they need to

1253
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 2: get a speaker in place in order to certify the

1254
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 2: election results and make Donald Trump President of the United States,

1255
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 2: which I'm sure as part of what motivated Trump to

1256
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: weigh in on this fight and to try to close

1257
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: the door to any potential challengers, et cetera, et cetera.

1258
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:49,080
Speaker 2: So there's that. The other thing is, you do have

1259
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 2: a debt ceiling constraint here. You're about to reach here

1260
01:07:55,680 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 2: in early January. So Janet Yellen came out and Emily's

1261
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 2: got this up on the screen here. As soon as

1262
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:06,800
Speaker 2: January fourteenth, the country could hit the debt ceiling limit.

1263
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: So in a previous deal, the debt ceiling had just

1264
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 2: been like suspended. By the way, debt ceiling is a

1265
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 2: stupid archaic thing. No other country has it, but we

1266
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: have it. It's like ridiculous. But anyway, so like Donald Trump, Crystal,

1267
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 2: it's true. I agree with Donald Trump when he says

1268
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 2: things like that. Anyway, it was extend, it was suspended.

1269
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: So they just like got rid of it temporarily until

1270
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:34,040
Speaker 2: January first, because they're getting some refunds back and whatever.

1271
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 2: They're going to have enough money to not hit the

1272
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 2: debt ceiling until roughly January fourteenth. Even that is not

1273
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 2: a hard limit, because then they can do what's called

1274
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:47,280
Speaker 2: extraordinary measures, which means they move around the order of

1275
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 2: the payments, et cetera, et cetera, to extend what period

1276
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 2: of time they have. However, it's kind of like once

1277
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 2: you hit January fourteenth through the twenty third, somewhere in

1278
01:08:56,200 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 2: that range, then the top clock is really ticking and

1279
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:02,680
Speaker 2: you really actually have to deal with this. People like

1280
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 2: Thomas Massey, they'll go out and chip Roy they'll say,

1281
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: like oftentimes they're just like, I'm not voting for a

1282
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:10,920
Speaker 2: debt ceiling increased period, end of story. We need to

1283
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 2: cut spending. That's their ideology, that's what they believe. They're

1284
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 2: pretty consistent about it. So that's part of why they

1285
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 2: were so upset about the omnibus. Trump was upset about

1286
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 2: the omnibus because it didn't extend the debt ceiling, which

1287
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: creates immediate problems for him as his administration is coming

1288
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 2: in that he has to deal with. But in any case,

1289
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 2: that's one of the sort of like chips that they

1290
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: can play in terms of trying to extract whatever concessions

1291
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 2: they want ultimately out of Mike Johnson. Then you have

1292
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 2: to remember, like it's not just the House that we're

1293
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 2: talking about here.

1294
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 4: Any sort of you know, spending cuts, etc.

1295
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,000
Speaker 2: Like that also has to go through the Senate, where

1296
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:48,840
Speaker 2: as of right now, you also have to get a filibuster,

1297
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 2: you know, proof sixty votes, which requires a collaboration of Democrats.

1298
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 2: So again, Mike Johnson's going to be speaker. But it's

1299
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:58,800
Speaker 2: just illustrates there's a lot of tricky issues that Republicans

1300
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 2: are going to have to be dealing with. Ye're in

1301
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,639
Speaker 2: the coming days. This first speaker vote happens literally tomorrow,

1302
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,599
Speaker 2: in the coming days and weeks as Trump takes office.

1303
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and to your point, Krystal, this is all everything

1304
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 3: you just outlined. That's leverage. That was leverage that they

1305
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 3: understood they had with Kevin McCarthy, and it's a leverage

1306
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,880
Speaker 3: that they know for sure they have now. So some

1307
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 3: of this is them saying, I actually can't take a

1308
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 3: vote for you, Like my constituents do not want me

1309
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,760
Speaker 3: to vote for you. They don't want me to vote

1310
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 3: for the debt ceiling, Like I can't do it. So

1311
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 3: you need to give me something so that I can

1312
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 3: tell them. You need to give me reason to make

1313
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 3: this okay. And so that's the leverage they have behind

1314
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 3: closed doors, and actually, you know, out in the open

1315
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 3: right now, you're seeing some of this this happen. What

1316
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 3: they can get from it is going to be fascinating

1317
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:50,919
Speaker 3: because Mike Johnson is almost the only option. But you know, obviously,

1318
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 3: if you're you're shopping around Jim Jordan, you can say

1319
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:55,600
Speaker 3: I'm voting for Jim Jordan. There's nothing you can do

1320
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:59,559
Speaker 3: about it. Democrats are definitely not going to help Mike

1321
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 3: Johnson this summer. I THINKI Kim Jeffries has already said

1322
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 3: something to that extent, So good luck, Mike. I'm probably

1323
01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:07,120
Speaker 3: gonna have to give up a whole lot.

1324
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,120
Speaker 2: I have to say, as you know, as a lefty

1325
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:12,640
Speaker 2: like I'm jealous of the way that you know, the

1326
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus and the way Thomas Massey and others recognize

1327
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 2: these this leverage that they have and recognize how to

1328
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: use it for their own ideological ends, even though those

1329
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,879
Speaker 2: ideological ends are not my own. I respect the tactics,

1330
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:32,560
Speaker 2: and I'm jealous that there isn't anyone on the Democratic

1331
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:37,599
Speaker 2: side willing to employ those tactics either. And I think

1332
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 2: that you know, the like it's become very clear that

1333
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 2: the tactical posture of the squad and a Bernie to

1334
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 2: let me, you know, play nice with the Democrats and

1335
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 2: let me see if that's the way that I can

1336
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,240
Speaker 2: effectuate the most political change like that really defanged them

1337
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 2: and made them just another sort of rank and file

1338
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 2: Democratic estyle member. I'm still glad that they're there versus

1339
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 2: you know, another more corporate Democrat. You know, they're more

1340
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,799
Speaker 2: likely to vote well on the issues that I care about,

1341
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 2: but it has completely defaning them and completely undermined there

1342
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 2: the places where they could have wielded power, and there

1343
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 2: are a lot of places, because you know in the Senate,

1344
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 2: but in particular in the House, when the Democrats have

1345
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 2: the majority is also a very slim majority, and so

1346
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 2: they could have employed some of these tactics to further

1347
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 2: left populist ideological interest and every opportunity effectively. I don't

1348
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 2: want to say it every that they never used any

1349
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 2: leverage whatsoever.

1350
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 4: That would be you know, a misstatement.

1351
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 2: But you know, they never were willing to go to

1352
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 2: the mat the way that the Freedom caucuses. They never

1353
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 2: were willing to really just aggressively be adversarial towards leadership

1354
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 2: the way that the Freedom Caucuses. And you know, the

1355
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 2: most important case in point of this is AOC. She

1356
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:56,799
Speaker 2: wanted to be ranking Member on Oversight.

1357
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 4: It would have been a good.

1358
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 2: Position for her because it requires someone who could you know,

1359
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 2: communicate and be like mombastic whatever like. She would do

1360
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,679
Speaker 2: well in that role. And Nancy Pelosi actively even after

1361
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 2: AOC did so much for the party and was a good,

1362
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 2: good girl and fell in line and did all the

1363
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 2: things they wanted her to do and advocated for Kamalin

1364
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 2: and back By and all that stuff. Even after all

1365
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:19,919
Speaker 2: of that, and she reportedly promised I won't even primary

1366
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 2: I want even back primary challengers to incumb in Democrats.

1367
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,840
Speaker 2: They still behind the scenes, Nancy Pelosi pushes for her

1368
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 2: chosen candidate, Jerry Connelly, and blocks AOC from that position.

1369
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:35,200
Speaker 2: So it was a failed tactical decision. And I am

1370
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:40,800
Speaker 2: envious of the Republicans' willingness to play hardball in these negotiations.

1371
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Ryan and I pushed Greg Kassar, the

1372
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 3: incoming chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, on exactly this.

1373
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 3: So if people want to see that sort of back

1374
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 3: and forth. Go check out Conference Friday from about a

1375
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 3: month ago, because I've always had the exact same question,

1376
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,200
Speaker 3: and this gets to what I think might happen over

1377
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:58,600
Speaker 3: of course, in the next couple of weeks with the

1378
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 3: Republican Conference, because fundamentally the post Tea Party is very

1379
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,599
Speaker 3: much came out of the Tea Party. The post Tea

1380
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 3: Party attitude of people like chip Roy was bolstered by

1381
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,200
Speaker 3: certain populist Republicans who came from the Tea Party wave

1382
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 3: themselves saying, oh, I know my constituents are behind me.

1383
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 3: And not only are they behind me, they don't want

1384
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 3: me to go in here and make bad deals with you.

1385
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,799
Speaker 3: They want me to make either no deals or good deals.

1386
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,040
Speaker 3: And that's why we may see people like chip Roy

1387
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 3: like it's actually possible that they don't go along to

1388
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 3: get along with Donald Trump. We saw Donald Trump actually

1389
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 3: attacking chip Roy a couple of weeks ago when the

1390
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 3: Omnibus was on the table and chip Row was threatening

1391
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 3: that they know fundamentally that their constituents are behind them

1392
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:47,280
Speaker 3: when they block deals with the political establishment, so it

1393
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 3: gives them confidence and the squad should operate like that

1394
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:54,400
Speaker 3: as well as sort of the post populist iteration of

1395
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,880
Speaker 3: left populism in Congress. I shouldn't say post populist, but

1396
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 3: the populist wave iteration. And they should know that that's

1397
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 3: where their constituents are too. And just finally, that means

1398
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 3: that you know, if your constituents are fully behind Donald Trump,

1399
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 3: they're going to want to see you go along with Trump.

1400
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 3: And that's the question that the Chipwroys of the world

1401
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 3: have to ask themselves in the next couple of weeks.

1402
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 4: Yep, it'll be interesting.

1403
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:21,879
Speaker 3: Well, Crystal, the saga of It Ends with Us starring

1404
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,400
Speaker 3: Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, has officially crossed the threshold

1405
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 3: from a story of celebrity intrigue to one of greater

1406
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 3: import I think it's really becoming a story about the media.

1407
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 3: And to be fair, we always could see a little

1408
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 3: bit of the internal Hollywood pr machinations creeping into public view.

1409
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 3: So of the course of the last several months since

1410
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 3: the movie came out, and they famously did not promote

1411
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,240
Speaker 3: the movie together, but it has since just in the

1412
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 3: last even forty eight hours, become a sposed me to

1413
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 3: story about how the media is handling allegations of sexual misconduct. Essentially,

1414
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 3: it's becoming a fascinating story. But I think a really

1415
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:01,799
Speaker 3: important one. One of the reasons that I love following

1416
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,760
Speaker 3: celebrity gossips so closely, Crystal, is because it's a low

1417
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 3: stakes public relations game. And you see how journalists, and

1418
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 3: in this case, we were talking about the New York Times,

1419
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,679
Speaker 3: We're not talking about TMZ, We're not talking about Pop

1420
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 3: Sugar or whatever else. We're talking about the New York Times,

1421
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,720
Speaker 3: how easily they can be manipulated by powerful people in

1422
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 3: the public relations game. So right now, it's sort of

1423
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 3: a question of who's a jerk, Justin Baldoni or Blake Lively,

1424
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 3: And maybe the answer to that question is both of them.

1425
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 3: But just yesterday, Variety published a story that I'm going

1426
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 3: to share on the screen right now because this is

1427
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 3: a hugely significant story in that it is a quite

1428
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:45,799
Speaker 3: a rebuttal to a New York Times story that really

1429
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:48,679
Speaker 3: really took Blake Lively's side. So this is the headline

1430
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 3: for a Variety. Justin Baldoni files two hundred and fifty

1431
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 3: million dollar lawsuit against New York Times over break Blake

1432
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:58,280
Speaker 3: Lively story, saying it relied on her quote self serving narrative.

1433
01:16:58,360 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 3: Now again, Crystal, I don't think we needed Justin Baldoni

1434
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 3: to file this suit to realize that it was relying

1435
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 3: on Blake Lively's narrative. Let me share the New York

1436
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 3: Times story right now. You can see we can bury

1437
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 3: Anyone inside a Hollywood smear machine that had the byline.

1438
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,719
Speaker 3: You may recognize that byline. Viewers, listeners may recognize this byline.

1439
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 3: Megan Touhi, who was one of the famous New York

1440
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:30,560
Speaker 3: Times Me Too reporters, very celebrated for me too reporting

1441
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,960
Speaker 3: in the initial wave of the me too movement. And

1442
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 3: I don't know about you, Crystal, but as I was

1443
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:40,919
Speaker 3: reading through the original New York Times story, it seemed

1444
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:44,200
Speaker 3: to me, just as a casual reader who hadn't looked

1445
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 3: at any of these documents, that there was a huge

1446
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:53,160
Speaker 3: context gap that a lot of the producer's texts that

1447
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 3: were being published. So the one that's in the headline

1448
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 3: it says, quote we can bury anyone, we were missing

1449
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 3: a lot of other parts of those conversations. So the

1450
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,800
Speaker 3: New York Times is making it look as though Justin

1451
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:11,920
Speaker 3: Baldoni had realized that Blake Lively was not happy with

1452
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,640
Speaker 3: him and was going to run her own kind of

1453
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:18,000
Speaker 3: campaign against him. Obviously, Millions and millions of dollars are

1454
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,920
Speaker 3: on the line anytime you're promoting this. It's like a

1455
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 3: big product essentially, and so it means a lot to

1456
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 3: bottom lines for these big companies, and they treated really seriously.

1457
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 3: And that's where celebrity gossip becomes a product in and

1458
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:35,320
Speaker 3: of itself as well. So yeah, and you know, these

1459
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:38,719
Speaker 3: allegations are that Baldoni was walking in on Blake Lively

1460
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:43,880
Speaker 3: while she was breastfeeding, allegations that he bit her lip

1461
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:48,880
Speaker 3: during a kissing scene, basically that he acted like a jerk.

1462
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 3: Nothing here I think constitutes like assault obviously, But he

1463
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 3: was also sort of walking around clothing himself as in

1464
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 3: the sort of like moral garb of male feminism. So

1465
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 3: then it's like he seems to be orchestrating or his

1466
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 3: people seem to be orchestrating a social media campaign to

1467
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 3: take clips of Blake Lively and disseminate them and make

1468
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 3: it look like an organic uprising of people realizing that

1469
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 3: Blake Lively has always been sort of a jerk. And

1470
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 3: then he comes in with this lawsuit against the New

1471
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:22,559
Speaker 3: York Times and gives evidence to variety suggesting the New

1472
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:26,759
Speaker 3: York Times, believe it or not, Crystal was overly gullible,

1473
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:29,040
Speaker 3: And a lot of people will look at that more

1474
01:19:29,040 --> 01:19:31,760
Speaker 3: cynically and say, was you know, taking is like some

1475
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,360
Speaker 3: type of orders from Blake Lively or something in return?

1476
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 3: But I think what it looks like is they got

1477
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,599
Speaker 3: drip drip drip bits from Blake Lively's team and did

1478
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 3: not confirm the context or were ideologically sort of wedded

1479
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 3: to the Lively narrative and to her side of the

1480
01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 3: story that they weren't interested in the other context. Because

1481
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 3: what Baldoni is doing, I don't think he may get

1482
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:57,400
Speaker 3: a settlement. You're not gonna win. I think the suit

1483
01:19:57,520 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 3: against the New York Times, And as a journalist, you know,

1484
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,639
Speaker 3: I don't think he should win the suit against the

1485
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 3: New York Times, because they're free to publish whatever nonsense

1486
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 3: they want to, and we're free to say that it's nonsense.

1487
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 3: But it looks like some of these things, at least

1488
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 3: from a journalistic standpoint, were would have been served by context,

1489
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,559
Speaker 3: better context. And so the question now becomes whin the

1490
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,559
Speaker 3: New York Times had that context? So Crystal, what do

1491
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 3: you make of what we learned yesterday.

1492
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So just to back up for people who are

1493
01:20:31,120 --> 01:20:33,879
Speaker 2: like me and we're not really following the story outside

1494
01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:36,759
Speaker 2: of my sixteen year old being like, oh my god, mom,

1495
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 2: what do you think about this?

1496
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:39,680
Speaker 4: Like what do I think about it? I don't even

1497
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 4: know about it. Who's Blake?

1498
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 2: That's where I had to start with, is like who

1499
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:46,320
Speaker 2: is Blake Lively? And who is Justin Beldoni? That was

1500
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 2: where I had to start with all of this. But

1501
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:52,800
Speaker 2: effectively there are co stars on this show movie it

1502
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 2: ends with us. Yeah, okay movie, and the movie one

1503
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:59,400
Speaker 2: of the central themes also is around domestic violence. So

1504
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:03,720
Speaker 2: that's how Justin Baldoni comes to like cloak himself in

1505
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 2: this like I'm an ally and I'm against toxic masculinity.

1506
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 2: And he's doing a podcast with Liz Plank, who's noted feminists,

1507
01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 2: et cetera. So he adopts this whole mantle, and during

1508
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:19,040
Speaker 2: the promotion for this film, neither one of them. They

1509
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 2: won't appear together. And also the entertainment media picks up

1510
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,600
Speaker 2: on the fact that a bunch of cast members have

1511
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 2: unfollowed him, so there seems to be some rift between

1512
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 2: him and everyone else. So then according to you know,

1513
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 2: some of the texts that have been released. He starts

1514
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:40,600
Speaker 2: to panic of like, obviously she's not happy, they're not

1515
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,839
Speaker 2: happy with us, Like they could really smears in the press.

1516
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 2: What can we do to get ahead of that? And

1517
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 2: I think even without you know, some of the ways

1518
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 2: that the Times characterized it, obviously like they screwed up right,

1519
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:55,200
Speaker 2: Like for example, that quote you know about we could

1520
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 2: bury anyone, et cetera, et cetera, left out the emoji

1521
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 2: that would have indicated to readers that they were being sarcastic.

1522
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,839
Speaker 2: And they also left out a text that indicated directly

1523
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,240
Speaker 2: that this PR team was actually not responsible for this

1524
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:15,760
Speaker 2: specific article that appeared. But nevertheless, even put in that aside,

1525
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,160
Speaker 2: he enlisted PR professionals to basically try to get out

1526
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 2: of the story and flip the narrative. So at some

1527
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 2: point there seems to be this online organic like we

1528
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 2: don't like Blake Lively and she's kind of a bitch

1529
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 2: and she was a bit in this interview, and why

1530
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 2: she's just out there promoting her like alcohol company when

1531
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 2: you know alcohol can be linked in domestic violence and

1532
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: she doesn't talk about domestic violence at all. There seemed

1533
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 2: to be this organic anti Blake Lively narrative that took

1534
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:49,280
Speaker 2: hold in the public. And so when she gets her

1535
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 2: side of the story out in this New York Times piece,

1536
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 2: she alleges, with the aid of New York Times that effectively,

1537
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,439
Speaker 2: like number one, you were inappropriate on this side in

1538
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:02,599
Speaker 2: any number of ways. You mentioned a few of them

1539
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 2: coming into my trailer when you know, at different times

1540
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 2: when I was naked, there were some allegations of like

1541
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 2: body shaming, she just had a baby, there were allegations

1542
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 2: that there were different boundary violations, and they both they

1543
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,080
Speaker 2: had sex scenes in this movie. So you know, it's

1544
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 2: very fraught, and she's married and her husband apparently berated

1545
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 2: Baldoni at one point. So any in case she llegis

1546
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,559
Speaker 2: that that happened, then that there's this orchestrated campaign of

1547
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 2: retaliation against her.

1548
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:32,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so now I'm just put up on the screen here.

1549
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 3: You can see from Variety as an example, one of

1550
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,640
Speaker 3: the juiciest tidbits from the New York Times story was

1551
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 3: this allegation that Baldoni had basically stormed in on Blake

1552
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 3: Lively while she was breastfeeding on the side of the

1553
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 3: movie and versus the Variety story that I know you

1554
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 3: were just about to get to, which says, well, the

1555
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,840
Speaker 3: context there they have text messages of Blake Lively saying

1556
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 3: I'm just pumping in my trailer if you want to

1557
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:55,880
Speaker 3: work out our lines, and Baldoni saying copy eating with

1558
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 3: crew and we'll have that way.

1559
01:23:57,040 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 2: So effectively, from these texts, it's like, oh, she was like,

1560
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,719
Speaker 2: come on over, I'm just here like pumping, meaning breast

1561
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 2: milk in my trailer if you want to work out

1562
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:07,240
Speaker 2: on lines, like, come on over.

1563
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 3: And at the very least that context was it should

1564
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:13,280
Speaker 3: have been been in the New York Time story, right,

1565
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:15,559
Speaker 3: So maybe he's still barged in or whatever, and maybe

1566
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 3: there are more text messages saying not before you come

1567
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 3: in or whatever, there's a whatever. Yeah, it sounds like

1568
01:24:21,240 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 3: that should have been in the New York Times story, right.

1569
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:29,680
Speaker 2: And then another instance where there was missing context was

1570
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 2: they say in the New York Times story that she

1571
01:24:32,280 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 2: alleges he.

1572
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,560
Speaker 4: Showed her naked a naked video.

1573
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 2: Of his wife, which like, that's like, what are you

1574
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 2: doing there? And it turns out not that I still

1575
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 2: still wouldn't be really cool with this, but it turns

1576
01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 2: out the naked video was of her during a home birth,

1577
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:58,360
Speaker 2: so like the least sexual you know, like connotation or

1578
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 2: context for a nude vie that you could possibly get.

1579
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 2: That also left out of the New York Times piece.

1580
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 2: So you know, he had his little PR campaign which

1581
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,920
Speaker 2: was successful in start of turning the public against her.

1582
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:15,400
Speaker 2: Then she fires back with this New York Times story

1583
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 2: that The New York Times was far too credulous about

1584
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,439
Speaker 2: at best, at worst, like actively hid and manipulated some

1585
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,559
Speaker 2: of the things that would be more favorable towards him.

1586
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 2: And now he's firing back with this lawsuit, which also

1587
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:32,160
Speaker 2: you have to assume, right it's his lawsuit. This article

1588
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 2: is based on his side of the story. Is also

1589
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,080
Speaker 2: likely cherry picking and leaving out some of the less

1590
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: flattering details for him as well. So some of the

1591
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 2: core themes here are number one, like, you know, he

1592
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 2: went out and draped himself in very intentionally, Like that

1593
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 2: was part of the PR campaign. Drapes himself very intentionally

1594
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 2: in this. I'm an ally of women. I'm like, you know,

1595
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm against toxic masculinity. I'm going to speak out against it.

1596
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 2: You should never harm women. Blah blah blah. He's doing

1597
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 2: this as part of a PR campaign to undermine this

1598
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:07,719
Speaker 2: very specific woman.

1599
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 4: So you've got that aspect.

1600
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 2: Then you have her basically engaging in some of the

1601
01:26:12,120 --> 01:26:14,760
Speaker 2: same behavior in the media credulously picking it up, so

1602
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 2: you have that aspect, and then of course you just

1603
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,559
Speaker 2: have you know, the whole specter of the way these

1604
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:25,080
Speaker 2: two individuals who are human beings, yes, but also brands

1605
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:29,840
Speaker 2: with a whole circle of people invested in their brands,

1606
01:26:30,360 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 2: who are waging like PR wars against each other. And

1607
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 2: you know, the public is being manipulated in any number

1608
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 2: of ways, and I think that part is very real.

1609
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 2: And also like you know, to go and even layer deeper,

1610
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 2: and we're about to talk about OpenAI and some of

1611
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 2: these AI stuff, Like one of the possibilities here is

1612
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 2: even that chatbots were potentially wielded in this war between

1613
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,519
Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively, and it it does just

1614
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,720
Speaker 2: make you like, this is kind of you know, it's

1615
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:05,360
Speaker 2: not that consequential of a story ultimately what happened on

1616
01:27:05,400 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 2: the set between these two individuals, but it does also

1617
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 2: make you question, like how much of what we're being

1618
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,439
Speaker 2: fed by the media, fed on social media like these

1619
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 2: you know, interactions that appear to be real and a

1620
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,599
Speaker 2: peer to be organic. How much of this is already

1621
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:27,040
Speaker 2: just fake, already just you know, astroturfed, already just completely

1622
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 2: concocted by somebody for some reason to manipulate you and

1623
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 2: your perception of reality. And to me, that's like the

1624
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,880
Speaker 2: most kind of like dystopian angle of this, is that

1625
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,879
Speaker 2: we really don't know how much of what we're already

1626
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,639
Speaker 2: consuming on the web in media is real and how

1627
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:51,320
Speaker 2: much is just literally generated, like falsely out of whole cloth.

1628
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 3: That's why this is damning for the New York Times,

1629
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:58,480
Speaker 3: because if there's something that should stand between smear campaigns,

1630
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:02,280
Speaker 3: information operations and the public, it's the free press. And

1631
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 3: for the New York Times, they're defending it and saying,

1632
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,479
Speaker 3: you know, they didn't defend any specifics, to be clear,

1633
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:09,759
Speaker 3: but they said, you know, we stand by our reporting.

1634
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 3: But this is a celebrated me two reporter of the

1635
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:14,800
Speaker 3: New York Times who seems to have been at the

1636
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 3: very least taken for a ride by the extremely powerful

1637
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 3: public relations team of Blake Lively that I guarantee you

1638
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:28,400
Speaker 3: weaponized the reporters me too connections and feminist bona fides

1639
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:32,639
Speaker 3: against them and for the benefit of the Blake Lively

1640
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,200
Speaker 3: smear campaign. And we started this just by talking about

1641
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 3: how entertainment media is often just like a lower stakes

1642
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 3: example of what happens in political media. So if you imagine,

1643
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 3: remember a lot of people probably do like you were

1644
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 3: talking about your daughter. These clips of Blake Lively going

1645
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:52,720
Speaker 3: viral around the premiere of It ends with us. Their

1646
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 3: allegation is that Baldoni sort of his team Whether or

1647
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 3: not he knew about it is a different question, but

1648
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:03,839
Speaker 3: his team astro turfed this viral momentum against Blake Lively

1649
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:08,400
Speaker 3: by sort of creating accounts or feeding accounts these old videos.

1650
01:29:08,439 --> 01:29:10,840
Speaker 3: And we actually have one right here that will go

1651
01:29:10,880 --> 01:29:12,840
Speaker 3: ahead and roll for everyone just for a taste, because

1652
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:14,680
Speaker 3: you probably a lot of people probably remember seeing this

1653
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:17,040
Speaker 3: stuff go viral at the time. But here we go.

1654
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:21,280
Speaker 3: This is an interaction that Blake Lively had.

1655
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:22,360
Speaker 6: Your little bump.

1656
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,640
Speaker 3: Okay, So that was just like a short clip, but

1657
01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:29,680
Speaker 3: it was being used to say like, oh, look at

1658
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:33,200
Speaker 3: Blake Lively gets congratulated by a reporter on her baby

1659
01:29:33,200 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 3: bump and then turns it back around on the reporter

1660
01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:36,439
Speaker 3: like that.

1661
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:42,160
Speaker 2: It is basically like you're fat yeah, it seems crystal

1662
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:47,000
Speaker 2: like a not a very kind thing to do. And yeah,

1663
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:49,679
Speaker 2: well and but then here's where things get even more

1664
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 2: again complicated. That particular you know, I guess she's like

1665
01:29:55,320 --> 01:29:58,840
Speaker 2: an entertainment reporter, YouTuber whatever her last name.

1666
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 4: I think she's nor regional last it was like flaw.

1667
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:05,280
Speaker 2: There's also a question about what her incentives were in

1668
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 2: resurfacing this interview, because she resurfaced this and did this

1669
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,240
Speaker 2: whole like the interview that made me want to quit

1670
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:17,000
Speaker 2: my job blah blah blah. And she also so she

1671
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 2: also had been very much pro Johnny Depp in the

1672
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 2: Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial and that whole drama and

1673
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:30,280
Speaker 2: lo and behold, Baldoni and Depp repped by the same

1674
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 2: PR agents. So now she denies that she says she

1675
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:37,760
Speaker 2: did this organically blah blah blah. But you know, there's

1676
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 2: a question there too of whether or not she had

1677
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:45,120
Speaker 2: some incentives. And maybe those incentives were just like, oh,

1678
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 2: I've built this particular audience, and here's a way that

1679
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 2: I can you know, like get in on a similar

1680
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,720
Speaker 2: storyline that may have a similar hook, etc. But this

1681
01:30:54,880 --> 01:31:00,200
Speaker 2: is also a potentially motivated actor in this whole thing

1682
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 2: as well. So, yeah, these things that can seem like

1683
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:05,960
Speaker 2: they just sort of like organically popped out of the

1684
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 2: ether and there's some public reaction against it. It's like, well,

1685
01:31:09,439 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 2: did that really happen or did you really have like

1686
01:31:12,600 --> 01:31:17,720
Speaker 2: an army of boths and some highly motivated influencers and

1687
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 2: Credul's journalists to push a particular view of the world

1688
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,400
Speaker 2: that may or may not be accurate.

1689
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:30,439
Speaker 3: So on that point, on that exact point, this is

1690
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:33,439
Speaker 3: we were going to talk about this story before the

1691
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 3: Variety exclusive on Baldoni's lawsuit dropped. Because the New York

1692
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:45,680
Speaker 3: Times piece was so conspicuously fed by Lively's team. And

1693
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that Lively is wrong and that Justin

1694
01:31:48,439 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 3: Baldoni is a jerk or a saint. It doesn't mean

1695
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:55,599
Speaker 3: any of that. What it means is that you could

1696
01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 3: see in the sort of anatomy of the New York

1697
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 3: Times piece that it was coordinated by a public relations

1698
01:32:04,200 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 3: team on behalf of Blake Lively because it was so

1699
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:12,160
Speaker 3: conspicuously missing context. And again, that's fine if you are

1700
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:15,839
Speaker 3: a feminist metio reporter who wants to stand with Blake Lively,

1701
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 3: and that's just your opinion, You've reviewed the text messages

1702
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,840
Speaker 3: the team sent, you've asked the questions you feel irrelevant. Whatever, Fine,

1703
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:25,600
Speaker 3: go ahead and do it, but don't do it and

1704
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:29,080
Speaker 3: act like this is the objective or the most neutral

1705
01:32:29,200 --> 01:32:32,120
Speaker 3: version of the story. If you're leaving out context or

1706
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:36,240
Speaker 3: not asking questions that would help you ascertain that context,

1707
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 3: that is being conspicuously hidden from you by Lively's team.

1708
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:43,679
Speaker 3: And again, yeah, to Crystal's point, these are multi billion

1709
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 3: dollar businesses. These are important, like the celebrity stuff. It's

1710
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,120
Speaker 3: lower stakes obviously than politics, but it's important to their

1711
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:53,520
Speaker 3: bottom lines, the health of their companies, to their shareholders,

1712
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:56,240
Speaker 3: and so they treat this stuff like it's widgets. They

1713
01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 3: treat these human interactions like these like their widgets. And

1714
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 3: the actors all know that the actors are investors. They're

1715
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:05,960
Speaker 3: part of that producers, executive producers. So they play the game.

1716
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:08,720
Speaker 3: They understand what they are in all of this. They're

1717
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 3: making a lot of money off of it. But now

1718
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:14,920
Speaker 3: put this to politics, and it's maddening to watch to

1719
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 3: see stories like this about any given topic. A Crystal

1720
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:21,679
Speaker 3: from your perspective the New York Times coverage of Gaza,

1721
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 3: or from my perspective New York Times coverage of any

1722
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:29,559
Speaker 3: immigration story or you know something dumb that Trump said,

1723
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,720
Speaker 3: Like you can just see you can see the fingerprints.

1724
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:36,360
Speaker 3: The cheap fake stories were a great example ahead of

1725
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 3: the debate about how the Republican Party was circulating these

1726
01:33:39,960 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 3: cheap fake videos. You could see in the New York

1727
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 3: Times coverage at the time the fingerprints of the Biden

1728
01:33:46,520 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 3: White House and the DNC on those stories. And you

1729
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 3: have that perspective when your media and you do this

1730
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:55,240
Speaker 3: for your job. But this is the best example if

1731
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:58,160
Speaker 3: you're a member of the public and you want to

1732
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,759
Speaker 3: like see how the media came into feel like truth

1733
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 3: and information, read both of these stories and it'll be

1734
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 3: really eye opening. Yeah.

1735
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 2: And the thing is, like, okay, so even if you

1736
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 2: took out or even if you included the context that

1737
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:15,200
Speaker 2: the Baldoni people say was missing of like, well, she

1738
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:17,880
Speaker 2: was being sarcastic here, and they actually said one text

1739
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:20,880
Speaker 2: earlier that like they weren't responsible for this story, but

1740
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:23,519
Speaker 2: they kind of wish they were. You know, like, even

1741
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 2: if you added all that context, it still doesn't look

1742
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 2: good for him. It's still a story. Yeah, he still

1743
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 2: very much paints a picture of he was worried that

1744
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,280
Speaker 2: she was going to say some bad things about him,

1745
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,759
Speaker 2: So he cloaks himself in this hole. I'm the women's

1746
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 2: ally and I'm against toxic. He cloaks himself in all

1747
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 2: of this, runs around talking about, you know, pretending like

1748
01:34:44,840 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 2: he really cares about domestic violence, and meanwhile, I was

1749
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 2: launching this pr campaign of retaliation against her. Like even

1750
01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 2: if you add the context, that is all very clear.

1751
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:58,280
Speaker 2: It's just they wanted it to be a less nuanced

1752
01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 2: and more clear cut in of him. They wanted the

1753
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 2: quote about we can bury anyone to stand on its

1754
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:09,719
Speaker 2: own without having the you know, the supporting context, et cetera,

1755
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:13,599
Speaker 2: et cetera. And by doing that, by reaching further than

1756
01:35:13,640 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 2: what was you know, organically, they're and honest, as best

1757
01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 2: we can tell at this point in this story, they

1758
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:24,080
Speaker 2: really you know, they really end up undercutting her because

1759
01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 2: now people just say, well, look, you did include that,

1760
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,880
Speaker 2: so obviously this is just a hatchet job, like it's

1761
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:31,799
Speaker 2: just bullshit, where I don't think it is all just bullshit,

1762
01:35:31,800 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 2: Like I think the general the basic contours of she

1763
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 2: was unhappy with him. He wanted to get ahead of it.

1764
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:40,720
Speaker 2: He launched this pr campaign of retaliation to get Like,

1765
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:42,200
Speaker 2: I think that is all true.

1766
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 4: I don't.

1767
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 2: I don't think that's really deniable at this point. But

1768
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 2: because they wanted to go that extra mile and really

1769
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:52,719
Speaker 2: paint him in this sort of like one dimensional villainous way,

1770
01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:57,640
Speaker 2: they end up overreaching and undercutting their entire story. So

1771
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,600
Speaker 2: but not that I think they'll learn any lessons from this.

1772
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:04,160
Speaker 3: They won't, but anyway, No, but big question could come

1773
01:36:04,280 --> 01:36:06,840
Speaker 3: is what the New York Time saw and if this

1774
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:09,439
Speaker 3: suit proceeds, we will learn a lot more.

1775
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:14,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and the discovery process could be interesting, yes.

1776
01:36:14,080 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 3: And sadly the winner from all this might be Harvey Weinstein,

1777
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:21,480
Speaker 3: who is able to then say, you know, as egregious

1778
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:24,680
Speaker 3: as what he clearly did was that, you know, this

1779
01:36:24,800 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 3: is the same thing to your point, Crystal, like, some

1780
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 3: of these stories can be real and newsy, and then

1781
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,360
Speaker 3: because the media does such a bad job with them,

1782
01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:35,760
Speaker 3: they end up uttercutting actual victims and true. Yeah, so

1783
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 3: that there's much more to come from this, to be sure,

1784
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 3: and it's more than celebrity gossip at this point.

1785
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:43,360
Speaker 2: So Saga and I brought you recently the news that

1786
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 2: and a whistle blower who had previously worked at open

1787
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:51,800
Speaker 2: AI who had raised concerns about the way that they

1788
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:57,240
Speaker 2: may be potentially violating patent and trademark agreements. That that

1789
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 2: whistleblower had been found. Now authorities deemed it a suicide.

1790
01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 2: But now we have the parents of that whistleblower, whose

1791
01:37:09,320 --> 01:37:12,960
Speaker 2: name is Sucier Bology, raising questions and saying that they

1792
01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:16,640
Speaker 2: are going to hire a private investigator in order to

1793
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 2: try to get to the bottom of what really happened here.

1794
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: Let's take a listen to a part of their press conference.

1795
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 3: Last person to talk to him, he was happy, more

1796
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 3: is not a depress or anything, and it was his

1797
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:31,160
Speaker 3: birthday week.

1798
01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,719
Speaker 17: He made plans of going to see us in January.

1799
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:36,880
Speaker 17: That was the last home conversation he had with him.

1800
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,920
Speaker 17: Even he went into his apartment, never came out. There

1801
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 17: was no suicide notes left, and there's nobody else in

1802
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:47,440
Speaker 17: the scene. That doesn't mean they can just come to conclusion.

1803
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:52,120
Speaker 17: And we have seen the bloodshots in the bathroom, signs

1804
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:53,880
Speaker 17: of fight in the bathroom.

1805
01:37:54,360 --> 01:37:59,120
Speaker 12: Vigil organizers say they're honoring Bilagi's bravery and raising awareness to.

1806
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:02,280
Speaker 7: Corporate account in artificial intelligence.

1807
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 4: So there you go.

1808
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 2: Obviously, I mean AI is the highest sticks game that

1809
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:10,400
Speaker 2: exists in the world right now. The amount of resources,

1810
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:15,280
Speaker 2: government and corporate resources that are being poured into AI

1811
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:19,920
Speaker 2: development is we genuinely don't even know how much money

1812
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:22,599
Speaker 2: is going into this. There is an arms race going

1813
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:26,479
Speaker 2: on right now to develop AI. Some of this is public,

1814
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,519
Speaker 2: like the war between Sam Altman and Elon Musk. Some

1815
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:31,840
Speaker 2: of it is not public. Peter Teel has funded a

1816
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:35,280
Speaker 2: number of stealth companies. You've got DARPA, which is a

1817
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 2: secretive agency within the US government that is funding research

1818
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 2: and development Israel, China, like, the list goes on of

1819
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:46,400
Speaker 2: actors and interested participants here. So the amount of money

1820
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 2: at stake here is truly truly mind blowing. I mean

1821
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 2: probably somes that we've never seen in history. Is not

1822
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:56,280
Speaker 2: an eager exaggeration. Just to give you a sense of

1823
01:38:56,320 --> 01:38:59,160
Speaker 2: some of what he was sounding the alarm over, and

1824
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:02,200
Speaker 2: in particular we were talking about The New York Times.

1825
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:05,599
Speaker 2: In particular, was featured in a New York Times story

1826
01:39:06,160 --> 01:39:09,080
Speaker 2: raising concerns about what he had seen when he was

1827
01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 2: at OpenAI. He elaborated on that interview in this post.

1828
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 2: He said, I recently participated in New York Times story

1829
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:20,440
Speaker 2: about fair use and generative AI and why I'm skeptical

1830
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,360
Speaker 2: that fair use would be a plausible defense for a

1831
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:25,920
Speaker 2: lot of generative AI products. I also wrote a blog

1832
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 2: post about the nitty gritty details of fair use and

1833
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,640
Speaker 2: why I believe this. To give some context, I was

1834
01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:33,400
Speaker 2: at open Ai for nearly four years, worked on chat

1835
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 2: GPT for the last one and a half of them.

1836
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 2: I initially didn't know much about copyright, fair use, etc.

1837
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:41,439
Speaker 2: But became curious after seeing all the lawsuits filed against

1838
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:45,040
Speaker 2: gen ai companies. When I tried to understand the issue better,

1839
01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 2: I eventually came to the conclusion that fair use seems

1840
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:51,280
Speaker 2: like a pretty implausible defense of a lot of generative

1841
01:39:51,280 --> 01:39:53,559
Speaker 2: AI products for the basic reason that they can create

1842
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:56,920
Speaker 2: substitutes that compete with the data they're trained on. I've

1843
01:39:56,920 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 2: written up the more detailed reasons for why I believe

1844
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:00,719
Speaker 2: this in my post. Obvious say, I'm not a lawyer,

1845
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 2: but I still feel like it's important for even non

1846
01:40:02,840 --> 01:40:05,200
Speaker 2: lawyers to understand the law, both the letter of it

1847
01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 2: and also why it's actually there in the first place.

1848
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:08,559
Speaker 2: That being said, I don't want this to read as

1849
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 2: a critique of chat, GPT or open ai per se,

1850
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:14,120
Speaker 2: because fair use and generative AI is a much broader

1851
01:40:14,160 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 2: issue than anyone product or company. I highly encourage mL

1852
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:20,559
Speaker 2: researchers to learn more about copyright. It is a really

1853
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 2: important topic and precedent that's off it cited like Google

1854
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:25,880
Speaker 2: Books isn't actually as supportive as it might seem.

1855
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 4: Feel free to.

1856
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 2: Get in touch about this if you'd like to chat

1857
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 2: about fair use mL or copyright. And this is a

1858
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:36,920
Speaker 2: central issue he's touching on here, Emily, because all of

1859
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:41,760
Speaker 2: these large, large language learning models, all of them are

1860
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:47,600
Speaker 2: trained on whatever data they can gobble up, and this

1861
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:51,439
Speaker 2: is one of the critical components in how they learn

1862
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 2: and are able to produce the products like chatchept and

1863
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 2: other products that we're all now able to use. And

1864
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:02,280
Speaker 2: so we're talking books, we're talking transcripts of YouTube videos,

1865
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:05,320
Speaker 2: we're talking literally anything they can get their hands on.

1866
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 2: And without that data, they're unable to train these lms

1867
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,600
Speaker 2: and push them out into the world. So this is

1868
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:16,640
Speaker 2: not a side issue. This is, you know, alongside like

1869
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:22,920
Speaker 2: having sufficient you know, electricity and having the computational power.

1870
01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 2: These are the key ingredients for the development of AI.

1871
01:41:27,880 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 2: And you know, he was outspoken on it. And now

1872
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:34,679
Speaker 2: his parents who listen. You know, these are grieving parents

1873
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:37,920
Speaker 2: who I'm sure nobody wants to think that their son

1874
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:42,400
Speaker 2: or daughter was so unhappy as to commit suicide and

1875
01:41:42,439 --> 01:41:45,360
Speaker 2: to end their own life. So you know, we always

1876
01:41:45,360 --> 01:41:48,040
Speaker 2: always have to keep that in mind. But it's worth

1877
01:41:48,080 --> 01:41:52,400
Speaker 2: taking seriously this investigation simply because this is one of

1878
01:41:52,520 --> 01:41:55,320
Speaker 2: a you know, relatively small number of whistleblowers who we've

1879
01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:57,479
Speaker 2: seen said, you know what, what is being done here

1880
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:00,559
Speaker 2: is wrong and I'm not going to be associated with it.

1881
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:05,360
Speaker 3: Determines whether AI is built on a house of sand

1882
01:42:06,040 --> 01:42:10,360
Speaker 3: or like a really well built foundation. AI can be

1883
01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:15,679
Speaker 3: a house of cards if their fair use argument is erupted,

1884
01:42:16,040 --> 01:42:18,919
Speaker 3: and whether that's legally or in the court of public opinion.

1885
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:23,280
Speaker 3: AI generative ailms will be a house of sand if

1886
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:28,120
Speaker 3: they can't defend their fair use practices. So obviously what

1887
01:42:28,200 --> 01:42:31,320
Speaker 3: he was doing was very high stakes and a notable

1888
01:42:31,360 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 3: point from his parents there. They say there was no

1889
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,880
Speaker 3: note and also they believe what they saw was a

1890
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:42,559
Speaker 3: sign of struggle. So the police obviously ruled this, as

1891
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,280
Speaker 3: you mentioned, crystal suicide. But if the parents are saying

1892
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:50,479
Speaker 3: the police ruled it a suicide despite there being signs

1893
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 3: of struggle, that's I think something just in the investigation

1894
01:42:56,280 --> 01:42:58,880
Speaker 3: stage people will be looking at very closely, and we

1895
01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:01,240
Speaker 3: will be looking at very close if there are serious

1896
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 3: signs of struggle that still resulted in the investigation being

1897
01:43:05,360 --> 01:43:10,479
Speaker 3: concluded as a suicide. That's a hugely significant piece of

1898
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:11,559
Speaker 3: information from the parents.

1899
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:13,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'd be remiss if I didn't note that

1900
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:19,120
Speaker 2: there were two Boeing whistleblowers who were found dead and

1901
01:43:19,760 --> 01:43:24,440
Speaker 2: was also deemed suicide. And in one of those instances

1902
01:43:24,439 --> 01:43:27,679
Speaker 2: in particular, and you know, same thing, friends and family said,

1903
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:31,960
Speaker 2: he seemed vine no indication of depression, no indication of

1904
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:36,080
Speaker 2: you know, anything that would lead directly to him taking

1905
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:39,880
Speaker 2: his own life. Authorities deemed it a suicide. That's where

1906
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:42,800
Speaker 2: things stand as of now. But this is one we'll

1907
01:43:42,880 --> 01:43:44,000
Speaker 2: we'll definitely keep our eyes on.

1908
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 3: And just one more point about Bellagi's last post. He

1909
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:51,600
Speaker 3: was actively soliciting information, So that's that's just something to

1910
01:43:51,640 --> 01:43:53,320
Speaker 3: keep in mind. That last poster he's saying, get in

1911
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:56,200
Speaker 3: touch with me. I want to hear your thoughts. That's

1912
01:43:56,240 --> 01:44:01,519
Speaker 3: a sort of active process of learning more coming to

1913
01:44:01,560 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 3: different conclusions to undermine the sort of fundamental the foundation

1914
01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 3: really of LM so you can see where that would

1915
01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:11,840
Speaker 3: be of interest to people who have a lot of

1916
01:44:11,840 --> 01:44:13,360
Speaker 3: interest in those llms.

1917
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just to tie this whole conversation, you're zooming

1918
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:19,760
Speaker 2: out from this whistleblower back to what we were talking

1919
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 2: about with Elon and Trump and David Sachs and all

1920
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 2: these people. Like the H one B fight is a

1921
01:44:25,120 --> 01:44:28,639
Speaker 2: side shoe to the main event, which is AI development.

1922
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:35,840
Speaker 2: The resources that are being thrown into this truly arms race,

1923
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:40,800
Speaker 2: both between nation states and between corporations to be you know,

1924
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:43,599
Speaker 2: the furthest to head an AI to achieve was called

1925
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:47,360
Speaker 2: a GI artificial general intelligence, to be the first to

1926
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,160
Speaker 2: develop that. This is all going on. Some of it is,

1927
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:53,799
Speaker 2: you know, you can you can read about in the press,

1928
01:44:54,040 --> 01:44:59,080
Speaker 2: but there is not nearly enough media coverage, democratic debate

1929
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:03,680
Speaker 2: transparent about what the plans are for this technology, how

1930
01:45:03,720 --> 01:45:06,120
Speaker 2: it will be deployed in our lives, what that will

1931
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 2: look like, how will upend the labor force We're talking about,

1932
01:45:11,320 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 2: you know, potentially greater than Industrial revolution level change over

1933
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 2: a much shorter period of time. That's the real like

1934
01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 2: undercurrent of the political games that are being played right

1935
01:45:28,160 --> 01:45:30,960
Speaker 2: now and the political moves that are being made obviously

1936
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:33,880
Speaker 2: Elon Musk is a big player in that. Sam Altman

1937
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:37,479
Speaker 2: of Open AI a big player in that. Noteworthy to

1938
01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:41,160
Speaker 2: me that after Trump wins, Sam comes in, It's like,

1939
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:42,120
Speaker 2: let me give a.

1940
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 4: Million dollars to your inauguration, right. They have so much

1941
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:47,719
Speaker 4: at stake.

1942
01:45:47,520 --> 01:45:52,599
Speaker 2: Here, Zuckerberg as well, Zuckerberg absolutely Zuckerberg as well, all

1943
01:45:52,680 --> 01:45:57,440
Speaker 2: of the big tech players massively invested and betting.

1944
01:45:57,200 --> 01:46:01,880
Speaker 4: On this AI future. And partly because.

1945
01:46:01,680 --> 01:46:04,200
Speaker 2: I mean the you know chat GPT like it's fun

1946
01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:06,559
Speaker 2: and seems harmless and I use it and whatever, Like

1947
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 2: it's hard to wrap your head around the scale of potential,

1948
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:19,000
Speaker 2: just like incredible disruption that we could be facing, and

1949
01:46:19,360 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 2: even darker scenarios that you know are truly dystopian that

1950
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:25,639
Speaker 2: if I you know, lay them out right now, you're

1951
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:27,320
Speaker 2: going to think I sound like a crazy person. But

1952
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:31,880
Speaker 2: that AI researchers take very seriously as a possibility. This

1953
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:35,559
Speaker 2: is all happening effectively behind closed doors, with a few

1954
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:40,200
Speaker 2: comparatively small number of scientists and technologists who are making

1955
01:46:40,240 --> 01:46:43,879
Speaker 2: these decisions that could completely upend all of our lives.

1956
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:47,920
Speaker 2: And so you know, this incident with this whistleblower is

1957
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:51,880
Speaker 2: just a tiny window in to the stakes of this

1958
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 2: game and how much is happening and how consequential.

1959
01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:59,440
Speaker 4: It could be. It truly is like the biggest.

1960
01:46:59,080 --> 01:47:02,680
Speaker 2: And most existential political question of our time, and it's

1961
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:06,120
Speaker 2: not being treated or debated that way. So I mentioned before,

1962
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:08,479
Speaker 2: like I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can,

1963
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:12,200
Speaker 2: because I do think that the stakes are potentially that

1964
01:47:12,360 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 2: high and that's significant. Like I said, this is just

1965
01:47:14,840 --> 01:47:18,479
Speaker 2: like one little, one little window into some of the

1966
01:47:18,520 --> 01:47:21,240
Speaker 2: concerns about AI and the way that it could transform

1967
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 2: our entire economy.

1968
01:47:23,160 --> 01:47:27,960
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, the story, even just the fate of

1969
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:32,000
Speaker 3: Bolagi himself. There's a lot more, a lot more to

1970
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 3: be learned about that, given the the what we just

1971
01:47:37,080 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 3: sawt from the parents, basically the commitment and the commitments,

1972
01:47:42,400 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 3: the idea that this is not what he would have done.

1973
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:47,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, much more to come. Absolutely.

1974
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:50,360
Speaker 2: All right, Let's go ahead and transition to American doctors

1975
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:54,160
Speaker 2: just back from Gaza, who has a message to share

1976
01:47:54,280 --> 01:47:54,760
Speaker 2: with the world.

1977
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:55,400
Speaker 4: Let's get to that.

1978
01:47:58,240 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 2: We are very grateful and fortunate to be joined this

1979
01:48:00,520 --> 01:48:03,519
Speaker 2: morning pie at doctor Muhammad Khalil. He is American doctor

1980
01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:07,080
Speaker 2: based in Texas, a surgeon actually, who has just returned

1981
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 2: from his second trip to Gaza and wanted to share

1982
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,760
Speaker 2: with us and our audience what he experienced there and

1983
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:17,240
Speaker 2: his concerns based on what his colleagues are continuing to

1984
01:48:17,280 --> 01:48:19,719
Speaker 2: tell him are happening there on the ground.

1985
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:20,280
Speaker 4: Doctor.

1986
01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:21,840
Speaker 2: Great to great to see you, Great to meet you,

1987
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:23,320
Speaker 2: and thank you for joining us this morning.

1988
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:24,720
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me.

1989
01:48:24,920 --> 01:48:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, so just tell us a little bit

1990
01:48:26,760 --> 01:48:29,519
Speaker 2: of about the context of your visit and some of

1991
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:31,840
Speaker 2: the things that you saw there operating on the ground.

1992
01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:32,639
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1993
01:48:32,720 --> 01:48:38,519
Speaker 14: So I went with a humanitarian group into Gaza. I

1994
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:41,320
Speaker 14: had actually been there the first time in April at

1995
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:45,920
Speaker 14: European General Hospital and saw, you know, a lot of

1996
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:49,960
Speaker 14: lower extremity injuries, a lot of I think we signed

1997
01:48:49,960 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 14: this letter to the New York Times about all the

1998
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:55,320
Speaker 14: sniper shots that were that we saw in children, a

1999
01:48:55,360 --> 01:48:59,679
Speaker 14: lot of you know, U targeted to Taxis in discriminate bonding.

2000
01:49:00,320 --> 01:49:04,200
Speaker 14: This time, I went up north in November to the

2001
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:06,879
Speaker 14: Ali Hospital, which, if you remember, was the first hospital

2002
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:09,360
Speaker 14: that was attacked, and there was a lot of questions

2003
01:49:09,360 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 14: as to whether a hospital would be attacked by the

2004
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:16,519
Speaker 14: Israeli military and uh, this this experience was completely different,

2005
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:21,800
Speaker 14: just a lot of death and destruction. We did, you know,

2006
01:49:21,880 --> 01:49:25,680
Speaker 14: quite a bit of operating ortheedic surgery, surgery just you know,

2007
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:30,080
Speaker 14: there's a lot of uh stabilizing fractures and unfortunately, you know,

2008
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:33,040
Speaker 14: in this setting, there were a lot of amputations, just

2009
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:34,639
Speaker 14: a ton of blast injuries.

2010
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:35,679
Speaker 7: Up North.

2011
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 14: Though it's a very different type of warfare, you can't

2012
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:42,080
Speaker 14: it's shake the feeling that the North is almost a

2013
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:46,160
Speaker 14: testing ground for technological warfare. We saw a number of

2014
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:49,960
Speaker 14: drones that were dropping bombs, and then off the back

2015
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:52,320
Speaker 14: of those drones they've got quad copters that come down

2016
01:49:52,400 --> 01:49:54,400
Speaker 14: and shoot anything that's left moving. We had a number

2017
01:49:54,400 --> 01:49:57,240
Speaker 14: of children telling us that they would just have to

2018
01:49:57,320 --> 01:50:01,840
Speaker 14: lay there after an explosion so that they wouldn't move

2019
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:03,680
Speaker 14: and get shot. I think there's a lot of a

2020
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:08,200
Speaker 14: sense that this is, you know, very much kind of

2021
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:12,840
Speaker 14: utter destruction. What I would say is in April we

2022
01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,240
Speaker 14: saw a genocide. In November it just seemed like a

2023
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:19,839
Speaker 14: full on holocaust. Everything is destroyed up North. There's really

2024
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:23,559
Speaker 14: barely any buildings left that are standing, and the ones

2025
01:50:23,560 --> 01:50:25,880
Speaker 14: that are are partially destroyed, and people are trying to

2026
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:29,400
Speaker 14: live in those in a makeshift environment.

2027
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:31,960
Speaker 3: What can you tell us about how you saw the

2028
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:36,400
Speaker 3: ratio of civilians. Obviously, this is very hard civilians to combatants.

2029
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:39,120
Speaker 3: You know, you're not interrogating people when you're treating them.

2030
01:50:39,200 --> 01:50:42,599
Speaker 3: But in terms of like women and children that you saw,

2031
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:49,080
Speaker 3: what do you make of the Israeli line that they are.

2032
01:50:49,320 --> 01:50:53,480
Speaker 3: You know, this is a defensible ratio of civilians to combatants.

2033
01:50:53,720 --> 01:50:56,840
Speaker 14: We did not see anyone that you could clearly identify

2034
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:01,880
Speaker 14: was a combatant. I assume that you know, they're they're

2035
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:06,120
Speaker 14: probably seeking help in other environments. Uh, because pretty much

2036
01:51:06,200 --> 01:51:11,360
Speaker 14: everyone that we treated was a non combatant. A number

2037
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:14,160
Speaker 14: of them were actually family members of the medical providers

2038
01:51:14,200 --> 01:51:14,960
Speaker 14: in the hospital.

2039
01:51:15,360 --> 01:51:17,920
Speaker 7: I know one of one of the nurses that was

2040
01:51:17,960 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 7: working with us in the o R, his brother, his

2041
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 7: entire family. Uh.

2042
01:51:23,720 --> 01:51:26,719
Speaker 14: Most of them were dead, but a few people survived

2043
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:28,920
Speaker 14: and we saw them in the er and you know,

2044
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:31,519
Speaker 14: this was in the middle of the night, and then

2045
01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:33,640
Speaker 14: the next morning that nurse was back in the r

2046
01:51:33,720 --> 01:51:35,880
Speaker 14: with us, you know, just getting back to work.

2047
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:37,720
Speaker 7: And it's it really is.

2048
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:44,680
Speaker 14: If somebody was a combatant, they would I assume they

2049
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:47,200
Speaker 14: were seeking help in other locations. Because pretty much the

2050
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:50,799
Speaker 14: majority of people that we treated were children. Uh women

2051
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:53,400
Speaker 14: or known family members of people that we.

2052
01:51:53,280 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 7: Were working with.

2053
01:51:54,600 --> 01:51:54,880
Speaker 4: Doctor.

2054
01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:57,679
Speaker 2: We covered earlier in the week the raid and destruction

2055
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:01,439
Speaker 2: of Kamal odd One Hospital, which was in the north.

2056
01:52:01,520 --> 01:52:06,320
Speaker 2: My understanding was it was really the last functioning significant

2057
01:52:06,320 --> 01:52:09,479
Speaker 2: hospital in northern Gaza. You know, what can you tell

2058
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:12,639
Speaker 2: us about the state of the healthcare system in northern

2059
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:16,200
Speaker 2: Gaza when you were there, both in terms of facilities,

2060
01:52:16,240 --> 01:52:17,840
Speaker 2: personnel and also supplies.

2061
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:23,920
Speaker 14: The We were actually north of the Netzeram corridor, so

2062
01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:29,240
Speaker 14: we were in what was considered northern Gaza above the

2063
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:33,800
Speaker 14: Netzerm border, so that's in Gaza City. Kamala Dwan was

2064
01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:38,360
Speaker 14: about another ten minutes north of us, and Kamala Dwan

2065
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,960
Speaker 14: and Indonesian are the only two hospitals up there, and

2066
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:44,360
Speaker 14: they're completely non functional. Now, there was a discussion of

2067
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:46,840
Speaker 14: having our group go up to Kamaladwan because one of

2068
01:52:46,840 --> 01:52:50,799
Speaker 14: the purposes that we serve as European and American teams

2069
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:53,800
Speaker 14: is sometimes we can be protective for the people that

2070
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:56,280
Speaker 14: are at the hospital. I think there's the you know,

2071
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:59,880
Speaker 14: when we left European Hospital and in Gaza in April,

2072
01:53:00,040 --> 01:53:01,360
Speaker 14: I was one of the part of the discussion is

2073
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:03,960
Speaker 14: once the team stopped showing up. Then we know we're

2074
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:07,240
Speaker 14: about to be attacked, and so going up to kamadwe

2075
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:10,360
Speaker 14: was not not an option. And we knew that hospital

2076
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:13,000
Speaker 14: was under sage the whole time we were there. And

2077
01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:15,800
Speaker 14: there were a bunch of messages because everyone knows doctor

2078
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:20,200
Speaker 14: Hasama Viasafia up in the in the area, and you know,

2079
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 14: we're what's that messaging him and stuff and kind of

2080
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:27,160
Speaker 14: getting an update. But it was it was not very

2081
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:31,160
Speaker 14: functional even back in November. Now it's completely non functional

2082
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:33,919
Speaker 14: after having been invaded and destroyed.

2083
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:37,400
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, and let me ask about another line of argumentation.

2084
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:39,720
Speaker 3: You hear a lot from Israel and extra from the

2085
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:43,160
Speaker 3: United States as well about hospitals in particular being used

2086
01:53:43,360 --> 01:53:49,439
Speaker 3: as hamas strongholds or places of strategy organization for hamas

2087
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:52,080
Speaker 3: sort of using hospital patients as human shields. What did

2088
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:54,200
Speaker 3: you see to that extent, if anything, and what do

2089
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:56,160
Speaker 3: you make of that line? Doctor?

2090
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:00,800
Speaker 14: I think at this stage that is a hard thing

2091
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:03,160
Speaker 14: to continue to uh.

2092
01:54:03,439 --> 01:54:04,439
Speaker 7: To push that narrative.

2093
01:54:04,439 --> 01:54:07,080
Speaker 14: I mean, so many hospitals have been destroyed and nothing

2094
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 14: has been found or at least, you know, shown to

2095
01:54:12,080 --> 01:54:18,480
Speaker 14: have have have actually been uncovered. The actual hospital functions

2096
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:22,280
Speaker 14: are what are getting limited. I think the death count,

2097
01:54:22,439 --> 01:54:24,720
Speaker 14: the death tolls and the counts that we're hearing are

2098
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:29,960
Speaker 14: horribly underwhelming. You know, every night that you're at the hospital,

2099
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:34,680
Speaker 14: you see them bring the dead bodies to the area

2100
01:54:34,720 --> 01:54:36,680
Speaker 14: where they will wash them and then bury them, and

2101
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:39,360
Speaker 14: it's it's I mean, on average you're probably seeing twenty

2102
01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:41,880
Speaker 14: to thirty at night, and the death toll has kind

2103
01:54:41,880 --> 01:54:46,160
Speaker 14: of been stalled for for many months now. The use

2104
01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:48,640
Speaker 14: of human shields, I think is a is a very

2105
01:54:49,240 --> 01:54:52,960
Speaker 14: tenuous argument. A number of the nurses and doctors that

2106
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:56,560
Speaker 14: we talked to were there actually at the Ul Shifa

2107
01:54:56,920 --> 01:55:01,200
Speaker 14: invasion and during that siege they were actually drinking ringers,

2108
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:05,600
Speaker 14: lactate and normal sailing to you know, get hydration. And

2109
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:09,000
Speaker 14: there were a number of the providers that they recounted

2110
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:12,200
Speaker 14: stories of being being told to undress and then they

2111
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:16,840
Speaker 14: would have to go room to room and basically search

2112
01:55:16,920 --> 01:55:20,520
Speaker 14: the hospital for the Israeli military with a drone and

2113
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:22,000
Speaker 14: a dog following them.

2114
01:55:22,480 --> 01:55:25,600
Speaker 2: So they were effectively being used as human shields by

2115
01:55:25,600 --> 01:55:26,680
Speaker 2: the IDF.

2116
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:31,960
Speaker 14: Exactly exactly, and as far as the the hamas using

2117
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:35,320
Speaker 14: human shields there, if you taught the challenges is that

2118
01:55:36,120 --> 01:55:39,840
Speaker 14: right now? I think there is no real evidence that

2119
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:44,000
Speaker 14: that is being done because at least in the hospital setting,

2120
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:49,120
Speaker 14: because for pretty much, you know, since a month or

2121
01:55:49,160 --> 01:55:52,520
Speaker 14: two into this war, there have been medical teams in

2122
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 14: a number of these hospitals, and I don't think there's

2123
01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:59,440
Speaker 14: been one story from any of the American, European or

2124
01:55:59,440 --> 01:56:05,240
Speaker 14: foreign medical providers of the Hamas coming in and using

2125
01:56:05,320 --> 01:56:06,520
Speaker 14: human shields in the hospital.

2126
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:10,280
Speaker 2: Doctor, what can you tell us about, you know, the

2127
01:56:10,320 --> 01:56:16,400
Speaker 2: availability of food, of clean water, of basic sanitation at

2128
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:18,360
Speaker 2: this point in northern Gaza.

2129
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 7: It's incredibly limited.

2130
01:56:20,440 --> 01:56:23,400
Speaker 14: I mean, I think you know, from our standpoint, you know,

2131
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 14: we go in to try to help and provide medical relief,

2132
01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:31,080
Speaker 14: but we really learn so much from the medical providers

2133
01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:32,640
Speaker 14: that are there already in Gaza.

2134
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:33,400
Speaker 7: I mean, it is.

2135
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:37,640
Speaker 14: A masterclass and taking care of people with very limited resources.

2136
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:42,360
Speaker 14: So you know, right now, just equipment wise there when

2137
01:56:42,360 --> 01:56:46,800
Speaker 14: we were up north, there's basically no external fixators like

2138
01:56:46,920 --> 01:56:50,520
Speaker 14: we were using in the South. They're reusing external fixator

2139
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:54,040
Speaker 14: equipment that's taken off of other patients when they get

2140
01:56:54,080 --> 01:56:58,200
Speaker 14: fixed or when they pass away. There's no intermedullary nails

2141
01:56:58,240 --> 01:56:59,640
Speaker 14: like the nails that we put down the shaft of

2142
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:03,680
Speaker 14: a bone to stabilize it. No pedical screws. I mean,

2143
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,840
Speaker 14: it's just very limited from a medical supply standpoint. Food

2144
01:57:07,040 --> 01:57:11,800
Speaker 14: is also incredibly limited. Like I actually turned I had

2145
01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:14,720
Speaker 14: my birthday there when I when I was there in November,

2146
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:18,160
Speaker 14: and they they they kind of made the joke that, uh,

2147
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:20,000
Speaker 14: you know, we would get you a cake, but there's

2148
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:23,600
Speaker 14: no there's no sugar and no eggs in Gaza every

2149
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 14: every and there.

2150
01:57:24,680 --> 01:57:27,000
Speaker 7: It's incredible how much, how what.

2151
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:29,080
Speaker 14: Great lengths they go to to try to provide you

2152
01:57:29,160 --> 01:57:31,960
Speaker 14: food when they have so little. So we would we

2153
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:35,120
Speaker 14: would have pew bread and and one of the other

2154
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:38,080
Speaker 14: visiting teams brought olive oil. Uh, and so we would

2155
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:40,760
Speaker 14: have Peter bread and olive oil in the mornings with

2156
01:57:40,840 --> 01:57:41,520
Speaker 14: the with the team.

2157
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:42,200
Speaker 7: Uh.

2158
01:57:42,360 --> 01:57:45,320
Speaker 14: So many of the people have lost an incredible amount

2159
01:57:45,360 --> 01:57:48,920
Speaker 14: of weight. I actually, you know, before I turned forty,

2160
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:50,760
Speaker 14: I tried to I got on a healthcake and lost

2161
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:53,200
Speaker 14: a bunch of weight, and so I was I just

2162
01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:56,560
Speaker 14: shared my overweight photos from the past just to kind of,

2163
01:57:56,680 --> 01:57:59,960
Speaker 14: you know, uh, show them where I was.

2164
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:01,560
Speaker 7: But every single person.

2165
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:03,920
Speaker 14: We had like a kind of a humorous moment, like

2166
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:06,320
Speaker 14: in between cases where everybody was showing me their pictures

2167
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:09,400
Speaker 14: when they were big and how how skinny they are now,

2168
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:12,480
Speaker 14: and it's just like it was kind of an interesting

2169
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:14,320
Speaker 14: way to kind of relate to the people there. But

2170
01:58:14,960 --> 01:58:17,760
Speaker 14: obviously my weight loss was intentional and for a lot

2171
01:58:17,800 --> 01:58:19,240
Speaker 14: of these guys it isn't.

2172
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:24,080
Speaker 3: And what was your experience with like creator seeing what

2173
01:58:24,120 --> 01:58:26,440
Speaker 3: aid's able to get through, what medical assistant's able to

2174
01:58:26,440 --> 01:58:28,520
Speaker 3: get through. Obviously you're based in Texas and you were

2175
01:58:28,520 --> 01:58:31,040
Speaker 3: able to get over there, but I imagine they're very

2176
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:34,840
Speaker 3: short staffed when it comes to hospital positions, doctors, medical care.

2177
01:58:35,280 --> 01:58:37,320
Speaker 3: In addition to them, you know, you probably saw a

2178
01:58:37,360 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 3: lot of malnourishment and food shortages. So what was what

2179
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:43,800
Speaker 3: was it like sort of watching people try to get

2180
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:47,800
Speaker 3: medical aid, even just yourself and food into gaza.

2181
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:51,000
Speaker 14: Yeah, so the first time we went in April, it

2182
01:58:51,080 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 14: was actually we went through the Rougha border and we

2183
01:58:54,040 --> 01:58:56,240
Speaker 14: were able to bring in you know, I think we

2184
01:58:56,280 --> 01:58:59,440
Speaker 14: had like ninety suit cases full of not just equipment,

2185
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:05,080
Speaker 14: but also so emergency food packs. Uh, you know, baby formula,

2186
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:08,840
Speaker 14: feminine supplies. All those things were able to get in

2187
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:11,000
Speaker 14: because when you go through the rougher border, there was

2188
01:59:11,040 --> 01:59:13,680
Speaker 14: a year there was an Egyptian entry in an Israeli entry,

2189
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:15,960
Speaker 14: and the doctor the medical teams could go through the

2190
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 14: Egyptian entry, so we were able to bring in a

2191
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:22,160
Speaker 14: bunch of stuff. This time you're going through Crem Shalom

2192
01:59:22,240 --> 01:59:24,960
Speaker 14: and you're not really able to bring in anything other

2193
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:26,120
Speaker 14: than personal.

2194
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:29,920
Speaker 7: Supplies, so to one suitcase.

2195
01:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,600
Speaker 14: And one carry on, and so we really weren't able

2196
01:59:31,640 --> 01:59:35,320
Speaker 14: to bring as much. You're just kind of bringing in

2197
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:38,480
Speaker 14: your own your own stuff there. You know, we did

2198
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:41,320
Speaker 14: bring a lot of One of the suitcases is full

2199
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:44,160
Speaker 14: of you know, emergency food supplies and like protein bars

2200
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:46,680
Speaker 14: and stuff like that. So brought in a surplus so

2201
01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:50,040
Speaker 14: that we could hand some of that out. But there

2202
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:54,160
Speaker 14: is an incredible limitation and resources. I think the other

2203
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:56,440
Speaker 14: thing is the limitation and money being brought in.

2204
01:59:56,880 --> 01:59:57,920
Speaker 7: It's I mean, we.

2205
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:02,040
Speaker 14: Talk about inflation at a an astronomical level, like I mean,

2206
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:04,600
Speaker 14: you know, a gallon of gas is about eighty dollars

2207
02:00:04,680 --> 02:00:09,480
Speaker 14: or you know, a gallon of diesel, and it's it's

2208
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:14,160
Speaker 14: it's remarkable how everything is in shekels or US dollars.

2209
02:00:14,200 --> 02:00:16,360
Speaker 7: There's no profession of any other form of currency. The

2210
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:16,960
Speaker 7: first time I went.

2211
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:19,400
Speaker 14: I brought some Egyptian currency and they were like, yeah,

2212
02:00:19,400 --> 02:00:23,600
Speaker 14: we can't, we can't use that here. It's just everything

2213
02:00:23,680 --> 02:00:27,120
Speaker 14: is incredibly inflated, and it's interesting when you go north.

2214
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:30,240
Speaker 14: I think it's a sad marker of how much the

2215
02:00:30,280 --> 02:00:34,480
Speaker 14: population has thinned. The aid that does get in. There's

2216
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:36,320
Speaker 14: you know, if you talk to the people on the ground,

2217
02:00:36,360 --> 02:00:38,600
Speaker 14: there's this suspicion that the aid is that is being

2218
02:00:38,600 --> 02:00:43,520
Speaker 14: brought in is being given to businessmen and not necessarily

2219
02:00:43,560 --> 02:00:45,200
Speaker 14: people on the up and up, so that they can

2220
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:47,520
Speaker 14: take the aid, mark it up and try to sell

2221
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:51,400
Speaker 14: it to people. And they feel that that's being conducted

2222
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:54,000
Speaker 14: through contacts in the Israeli military. If you ask the

2223
02:00:54,240 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 14: individual people on the ground, the supply is act better

2224
02:01:00,520 --> 02:01:03,080
Speaker 14: in the north because the demand has gone down and

2225
02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:07,440
Speaker 14: south prices have skyrocketed. So it was a very interesting

2226
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:09,400
Speaker 14: thing when we went into the south. You know, we

2227
02:01:09,520 --> 02:01:12,240
Speaker 14: prayed behind one of the guys that runs the morgue

2228
02:01:12,280 --> 02:01:15,040
Speaker 14: was leading prayer, and so after his prayer, like he

2229
02:01:15,240 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 14: put up his hands and specifically made a prayer for

2230
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:20,720
Speaker 14: the people in the north because there's there's you know,

2231
02:01:21,320 --> 02:01:23,840
Speaker 14: it's known that there's so much death and destruction there.

2232
02:01:24,120 --> 02:01:26,080
Speaker 14: But then when we went north and then we're coming

2233
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:29,400
Speaker 14: back down south, they actually a lot of people in

2234
02:01:29,400 --> 02:01:31,640
Speaker 14: the North wanted to give things to us to take

2235
02:01:31,680 --> 02:01:34,160
Speaker 14: to their family in the South because they're going to

2236
02:01:34,240 --> 02:01:36,640
Speaker 14: die here and this this stuff needs to get to

2237
02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:39,600
Speaker 14: our family, and things are so expensive down south that

2238
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:43,920
Speaker 14: they can't they can't get anything. So the supply is

2239
02:01:44,040 --> 02:01:46,320
Speaker 14: actually lower in the South and demand is higher, so

2240
02:01:46,360 --> 02:01:47,840
Speaker 14: the prices are just skyrocketed.

2241
02:01:48,880 --> 02:01:52,960
Speaker 2: Doctor, What are people what hope are they holding on too?

2242
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:58,080
Speaker 2: Because you know, at this point, like just for me personally,

2243
02:01:58,320 --> 02:02:01,720
Speaker 2: I feel like there was a huge college protest movement

2244
02:02:01,720 --> 02:02:04,720
Speaker 2: in terms of the US contexts like that didn't move

2245
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:08,400
Speaker 2: the needle. You know, there was some hope that perhaps

2246
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 2: Spiden and Harris could be pressured in some way that

2247
02:02:10,600 --> 02:02:13,360
Speaker 2: obviously didn't move the needle. Now you have an incoming

2248
02:02:13,360 --> 02:02:17,440
Speaker 2: administration that you know, is has long been very hostile

2249
02:02:17,480 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 2: basically long done what you know, the Israelis have wanted

2250
02:02:20,680 --> 02:02:23,680
Speaker 2: them to do. So what if people want us to

2251
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:27,160
Speaker 2: know and what hope are they hanging on to at

2252
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:27,560
Speaker 2: this point?

2253
02:02:28,480 --> 02:02:29,640
Speaker 7: It depends on who you ask.

2254
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:33,280
Speaker 14: So, you know, when we were meeting with one of

2255
02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:35,960
Speaker 14: the guys that does run the morgue and he gets

2256
02:02:36,040 --> 02:02:40,920
Speaker 14: a lot of the you know, the the bodies to prepare.

2257
02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:44,080
Speaker 14: And then Barry, he's a very upbeat guy and was

2258
02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:47,160
Speaker 14: joking around and you know, very social and one of

2259
02:02:47,200 --> 02:02:50,240
Speaker 14: our teammates asked him give us a message of hope

2260
02:02:50,280 --> 02:02:52,960
Speaker 14: for the people out out in the world, and he's like,

2261
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:53,400
Speaker 14: what hope.

2262
02:02:53,480 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 7: There is no hope. We're all going to die.

2263
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:57,280
Speaker 14: We just have to do our best while we're while

2264
02:02:57,280 --> 02:02:59,840
Speaker 14: we're here, and you know, it's it's very humbling to

2265
02:03:00,080 --> 02:03:02,760
Speaker 14: year someone as upbeat as that saying something like that.

2266
02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:04,400
Speaker 7: But then, you know, on the flip.

2267
02:03:04,120 --> 02:03:09,440
Speaker 14: Side, whenever the election results got announced, everyone's kind of

2268
02:03:09,520 --> 02:03:11,480
Speaker 14: joking in the O R and in the UH. In

2269
02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:14,760
Speaker 14: the courtyard of the hospital, you know, one of the

2270
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:18,640
Speaker 14: nurses daughters was killed, and so his other daughter and

2271
02:03:19,200 --> 02:03:22,360
Speaker 14: sons were playing by the you know, because they bury

2272
02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:24,760
Speaker 14: everybody in the courtyard or right outside the hospital. It's

2273
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 14: just graves as far as you can as you can see.

2274
02:03:27,280 --> 02:03:29,520
Speaker 14: And this, you know, one of the nurse's sons is

2275
02:03:29,560 --> 02:03:31,280
Speaker 14: a teenager and he was just like, he's like, you're

2276
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:32,720
Speaker 14: going to beat Trump. He's like, if you tell, if

2277
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:35,040
Speaker 14: you see Trump tell him, guys, is not just gonna

2278
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:37,480
Speaker 14: free Palistine, It's going to free the whole world. I

2279
02:03:37,520 --> 02:03:40,680
Speaker 14: think there's this sense that even though Trump, you know,

2280
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:42,720
Speaker 14: one of the doctors is like Trump has a son

2281
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:44,560
Speaker 14: in law that's Lebanese, maybe he's going to be a

2282
02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:48,920
Speaker 14: little more more uh favorable. I think that the general

2283
02:03:49,040 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 14: sense is that even though you know, Trump has been

2284
02:03:53,560 --> 02:03:57,120
Speaker 14: pretty derogatory in the way that he's talked about Palestinians,

2285
02:03:57,680 --> 02:04:01,280
Speaker 14: I think the thought is that you can't really appeal

2286
02:04:01,320 --> 02:04:04,320
Speaker 14: to his humanitarian side, but you might be at least

2287
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:08,200
Speaker 14: appealed to his ego to not look subservient to nen

2288
02:04:08,280 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 14: Yahoo and Israeli leadership in perpetuity. I mean, I think

2289
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:16,640
Speaker 14: on the Kama Harris and Biden's side, there just seemed

2290
02:04:16,640 --> 02:04:18,200
Speaker 14: to be no light at the end of the tunnel

2291
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:20,760
Speaker 14: in terms of them ever standing up to know what

2292
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:22,640
Speaker 14: was being done in Israel, even if it violates our

2293
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:23,200
Speaker 14: own laws.

2294
02:04:24,040 --> 02:04:26,400
Speaker 7: But with Trump, perhaps you can count on his ego

2295
02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:27,360
Speaker 7: eventually taking over.

2296
02:04:28,160 --> 02:04:31,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Khalil, thank you so much for spending some time

2297
02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:33,520
Speaker 2: with us, and thank you so much again for the

2298
02:04:33,520 --> 02:04:36,000
Speaker 2: work that you do, which to me is unimaginable. Your

2299
02:04:36,080 --> 02:04:40,720
Speaker 2: level of personal courage and ethics and morality to go

2300
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:43,320
Speaker 2: and put yourself in such a difficult and dangerous situation.

2301
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:46,120
Speaker 4: So we're really grateful. Is there anything.

2302
02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:49,080
Speaker 2: Anything else you want to share or anywhere you want

2303
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:51,240
Speaker 2: people to go to follow what's happening on the ground.

2304
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:55,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, No, I think I appreciate you saying that.

2305
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:59,160
Speaker 14: I mean, when we're there's I've never felt the feeling

2306
02:04:59,240 --> 02:05:01,560
Speaker 14: of survivor's guilt before, but this is something that that

2307
02:05:01,600 --> 02:05:04,280
Speaker 14: you get. You really hits home when you're when you're

2308
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:08,240
Speaker 14: leaving Gaza, and as much as we you know, uh,

2309
02:05:09,040 --> 02:05:11,520
Speaker 14: as much as it may take, you know, kind of

2310
02:05:11,520 --> 02:05:13,400
Speaker 14: putting your your fears to the side to go there,

2311
02:05:13,920 --> 02:05:16,720
Speaker 14: you're just humbled by how brave the people that are

2312
02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:20,680
Speaker 14: there actually are. Like I mean, it's they literally tell

2313
02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 14: you they won't even tell you the number of family

2314
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:25,680
Speaker 14: members that they've lost unless you ask them, and then

2315
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:28,320
Speaker 14: they just they they take it so well and then

2316
02:05:28,320 --> 02:05:30,960
Speaker 14: continue to work to help people even without pay, like

2317
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:31,560
Speaker 14: in the hospital.

2318
02:05:31,680 --> 02:05:34,000
Speaker 7: It's truly unimaginable.

2319
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:36,520
Speaker 14: And I think, like you know, anything that all I

2320
02:05:36,520 --> 02:05:39,440
Speaker 14: can tell people is, you know, if the money and donations,

2321
02:05:39,920 --> 02:05:42,720
Speaker 14: if you can find organizations like you know, World Central

2322
02:05:42,760 --> 02:05:44,360
Speaker 14: Kitchen Rama.

2323
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:46,800
Speaker 7: Keep donating. But the biggest thing is I think.

2324
02:05:46,680 --> 02:05:49,120
Speaker 14: Speaking up, like I don't know how long this can

2325
02:05:49,160 --> 02:05:52,680
Speaker 14: continue to happen, but at some point it's got to stop.

2326
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:54,280
Speaker 14: And I think, like you know, a lot of the

2327
02:05:54,320 --> 02:05:56,840
Speaker 14: attention on this has been diverted. Now after a year

2328
02:05:56,880 --> 02:05:58,680
Speaker 14: of this going on, it's kind of hard to keep

2329
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:01,680
Speaker 14: focused on it. But just you know, anyone who's got

2330
02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:03,480
Speaker 14: an interest, please just keep educating people.

2331
02:06:03,680 --> 02:06:06,160
Speaker 4: Doctor, thank you so much, and happy New Year to

2332
02:06:06,200 --> 02:06:06,680
Speaker 4: you as well.

2333
02:06:07,480 --> 02:06:08,120
Speaker 7: Thank you guys.

2334
02:06:08,240 --> 02:06:10,600
Speaker 2: All right, everyone once again, Happy new year to you.

2335
02:06:10,720 --> 02:06:14,280
Speaker 2: Here we go twenty twenty five, ready or not. And Emily,

2336
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:17,760
Speaker 2: thank you so much for hosting with me today. Monday,

2337
02:06:17,760 --> 02:06:19,920
Speaker 2: Soccer will not be back, but Emily's a little busy

2338
02:06:19,960 --> 02:06:21,880
Speaker 2: that day, so I'm going to book a bunch of

2339
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:25,000
Speaker 2: really interesting guests. We're going to do a show. I'll

2340
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:27,960
Speaker 2: be back in the studio for that and Ben Soccer

2341
02:06:28,000 --> 02:06:31,640
Speaker 2: will return. We'll get back to the regular scheduled programming.

2342
02:06:31,680 --> 02:06:33,880
Speaker 2: But always a pleasure, Emily. We always talk too much,

2343
02:06:33,920 --> 02:06:34,600
Speaker 2: though I.

2344
02:06:34,560 --> 02:06:38,280
Speaker 3: Know we always do it. You can always it's so stereotypical.

2345
02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:41,520
Speaker 3: Although sometimes the bro shows go along. That's true, not

2346
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:42,280
Speaker 3: quite this long.

2347
02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:44,000
Speaker 4: That is true. That is true.

2348
02:06:44,040 --> 02:06:46,240
Speaker 2: All right, guys, thank you so much for watching, and

2349
02:06:46,280 --> 02:06:48,120
Speaker 2: enjoy your weekend. I'll see you back here next week.