1 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on serious exim triumph. When 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: we go celebrate, we take the twins to waffle house. 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: It's a big deal. Waffles, cheese, eggs, grits, the works, 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: We play the jukebox. Everybody has a great time. Not 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: so this day in Tennessee when bullets rang out and now, 6 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: believe it or not, a stunning development and the waffle 7 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: house shooting case. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Remember this. A gunman 9 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: who we fully believe to be Travis Ryan King, arrived 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: in the waffle house parking lot in the pickup truck 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: at three nine TM. He sat in that truck for 12 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: three and a half to four minutes. When you got 13 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: out of the vehicle at about three three am, he 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: immediately used an assault type rifle to shoot two individuals 15 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: who were outside of the restaurant. They were fatally wounded. 16 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: He then went inside the restaurant continued firing. One other 17 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: person inside the restaurant was fatally wounded. Then an individual 18 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: who was in the waffle house of patron when he 19 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 1: heard the gunshots, actually ran back to the restroom area. 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: He watched the gunman. He reported that he saw the 21 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: gunman looking at his rifle. At that point, the shots 22 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: had stopped, so he decided to rush. The gunman actually 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: wrestled that assault rifle away tossed it over the counter 24 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: at that point. The gunman then fled. As he was 25 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: in the waffle house, he was wearing only a green jacket, 26 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: no pants, no shirt, just a green jacket. As he 27 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: reached the corner of the street now to the waffle house, 28 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: he shed the jacket. That's Nashville Police spokesperson Don Aaron 29 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: speaking about a double murder at the local waffle houses. 30 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: Everybody's settling in for waffles and grits and eggs and coffee, 31 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: and now, in a stunning turn of events, the shooter 32 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: now claiming he's unfit to stand trial. He had the 33 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: sense to stalk the waffle house to wait till it 34 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: was at its peak with customers, when everyone wasn't paying attention, 35 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: sitting outside waiting for just the right number of people 36 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: to be in there with his automatic weapon, goes in, 37 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: guns down people and leaves joining me right now. Troy Slayton, 38 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: fame defense attorney out of l A. Dr. Bethany Marshall, 39 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: l A psycho analyst Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, and joining 40 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,919 Speaker 1: me on the scene there in Tennessee. Pamela for Crime 41 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter Pam What does he mean 42 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: he's unfit to stand trial. Well, that's what the medical 43 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: experts from the state mental facility told prosecutors that his 44 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: condition is such that he can't stand trial, and they 45 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: believe he needs immediate judicial hospitalization. Uh. They don't believe 46 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: that he can contribute information enough to his attorneys. He 47 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: even said in an interview with a local TV station 48 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: here he actually called a reporter ranking did and said 49 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: he hates his attorneys. He doesn't want to even have representation. 50 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: He wants to represent himself. And so the doctors and 51 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: the medical experts from that state facility here in Nashville 52 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: say he cannot stand trial. He is not confident enough, 53 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: you know. To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, I don't believe it. 54 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of number he's pulling on 55 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: the doctors, but I can tell you this, Wendy, I 56 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: was called by the elected district attorney out of court 57 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: to go to a crime scene. The crime scene was 58 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: a beautiful young mother of one who had committed suicide 59 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: buck naked in her bed by shooting herself in the head. Wendy, 60 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: when we pull picked up her pillow that she was lying. 61 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: Her head was lying on the pillow when she shot herself. 62 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: And guess what was under the pillow, Wendy, blood spatter. Now, 63 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: how can that be when you shoot yourself in the 64 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: head with your head lying on the pillow, that the 65 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 1: spatter from the gunshot wound goes under your pillow with 66 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: your head on it. Long story short, her husband did it. 67 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: And guess what he said? He was insane, He was 68 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: unfit to stand trial, he was incompetent. I went out 69 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: and ambushed all of his friends. I found out he 70 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: had been writing from the mental health facility saying things 71 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: like stay cool and don't shoot you? Why love Dave? 72 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: How he said he planned to make scene end sculptures 73 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: and and and bead necklaces until they believed he was 74 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: crazy to get out of go into jail. Well, let 75 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: me tell you something. I blew every one of those 76 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: letters up at Kinko's, which is what we had to 77 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: do back then on my own time, to show him 78 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: to the jury. I just don't understand, Wendy Patrick, how 79 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: you can plan and execute an attack like this, killing 80 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 1: four people, and then claim you can't assist your lawyers. Yeah, 81 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: it's so frustrating, Nancy. And you know you and I 82 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: have both attacked these findings. And the prosecutor doesn't have 83 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: to accept this finding. They can actually have a trial 84 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: on the finding as to whether or not he's incompetent 85 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: to stand trial. Because it's true that people come up 86 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,359 Speaker 1: with these defenses, and you hope that doctors are savvy 87 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: and experienced enough to be able to see through some 88 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: of the antics, but we all know that they may 89 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: be human, and there may be you may actually need 90 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: a judge to hear the testimony of the doctors that 91 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: agree he's incompetent and reverse that finding in order to 92 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: have the man stand in this case and be held accountable, 93 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: hopefully to the victims and their families well as a 94 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: matter of fact. Okay, Troye Lton, l a defense attorney, 95 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 1: and Dr Bethany Marshall are chopping at the bit to 96 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: get in, but I want you guys to hear it 97 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: from the horses mouth. Here is the shooter ranking who 98 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: deigned to give a jail house interview. Yeah, he's crazy. 99 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 1: Listen to that interview Pamela Firm was talking about. But 100 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking stuff like that. Since Ranking's arrest, many 101 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: have wondered if he'll try using the insanity defense. I 102 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: asked him about his mental fitness, perfectly healthy. As for 103 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: the shooting at the waffle house, he wasn't ready to 104 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: talk about that just right now. But Ranking did talk 105 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: about his pending criminal case. He currently has two appointed lawyers, 106 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: but he says he plans to handle his own legal defense. Uh, 107 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: you know how that works? Journey Wow. Uh, that is 108 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: Ranking the cheeter speaking to our friends at Channel five 109 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: in Nashville and Nick Bars in particular, giving a jail 110 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: house interview to Dr Bethany Marshall. Wow, he says, I'm 111 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: perfectly healthy, and then he goes, yeah, I'm not comfortable. 112 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: I'm not comfy with talking about the facts on the record. 113 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: He knows his right to remain silent. He's not speaking 114 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: about the facts because he doesn't yet know what his 115 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: defense will be at trial, doesn't want to lock himself 116 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: into anything, and then goes on to trash his lawyers 117 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: and say how awful they are. Man. He Uh, he's 118 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: crazy like a fox. Dr Bethany, Well, he sounds very articulate, 119 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: very oriented towards reality. You know, even though he did 120 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: some very crazy things that suggested that he might be psychotic. 121 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: For instance, he went to the White House, he demanded 122 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: to inspect the lawn. He complained that Taylor Swift was 123 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: talking him. So obviously he's gone in and out of psychosis. 124 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean he's psychotic now. And he's been incarcerated 125 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: long enough for them to stabilize him on medication. I 126 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: understand this evaluation has gone on for some months. I 127 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: don't know why it can't take one day. But obviously 128 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: they've stabilized him and he's just fine. You know, you 129 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: can be psychotic and very clever and intentional about planning 130 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: a crime. Remember Andrea Yates who drowned her children. Okay, 131 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: so she said that she needed that that God told 132 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,479 Speaker 1: her to drown them otherwise Satan would take them to hell. However, 133 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: she waited until Rusty left for work to drown them. 134 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: So there was a mixture of delusion and intentionality and 135 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: being very homicidal. So being being psychotic or crazy does 136 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: not mean you can't aid in your own defense. You 137 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: can't think clearly or build a narrative about what happened. Right, 138 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: She waited for the husband to leave for work, locked 139 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: the door so she wouldn't be disturbed. Took the oldest 140 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: child first to kill him, so as uh the others 141 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't be he wouldn't be alerted as she killed the 142 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: others and they screamed and tried to run. Yes, she 143 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: knew exactly what she was doing, so Troy Slayton renowned 144 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: l a defense attorney and a competency trial. It's a 145 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,439 Speaker 1: bifurcated trial. First, you can strike a jury or just 146 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: have a beense trial friend of the judge, And the 147 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: only issue is is the defendant at the time of 148 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: trial able to assist his or her lawyers. That's the 149 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: only issue, and I would advise a competency trial. Troy Slayton, 150 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: there's that pesky thing called the United States Constitution, Nancy. 151 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: He is entitled under the fifth and sixth Amendment to 152 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: do process and the experts not him. But it's the 153 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: experts who evaluate him who that's their job in life 154 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: to look at people and determine their competency to make 155 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: a recommendation to the court. About not whether or not 156 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: he's insane as a defense to the crime, but whether 157 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: or not he can even stand trial. This isn't an 158 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: insanity defense. This is about whether or not he's even 159 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: competent to have a trial. And even if he's found incompetent, 160 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that he can't be restored to competency 161 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: by having treatment and then at some later time, maybe 162 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: thirty days, maybe even thirty days he's already been behind 163 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: bars for months on medication to get him competent, they 164 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: just stand trial. To you, and ranking window treatments is 165 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: one of those terms for something necessary but boring. You're blinds. 166 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: You don't even think about them unless you move or 167 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: they break. Well. 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Rules and restrictions do apply. 193 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: Just consider myself. I was, like I said in that cage, 194 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: and I had the opportunity to either act or act 195 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,440 Speaker 1: or not act, and uh, I chose to act because 196 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: either way, in my mind, I saw, if I don't 197 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: act is death. If I do act, I have a 198 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: stronger possibility of living than just letting him come to 199 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: the door. So, uh, I just see myself like as 200 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: a regular guy. I didn't mean to do this to 201 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: be the hero by any means. It was just kind 202 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: of like survival of the fittest type thing. Um, I'm sorry. 203 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't get to the guy any faster, or we 204 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: could have got him out in the parking lot or 205 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: something like that. But you know, I didn't know he 206 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: was going to come in their arm to the teeth 207 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: like that. There was no way for me to know 208 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: that he was going to do that. I'm sorry for 209 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: your family, Um, your loved ones. I'm kind of speechless. 210 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: I really don't. All I can say is words, but 211 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: it's it's it's gonna hurt now. The man that comes 212 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: into a local waffle house at the peak of business 213 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: and unloads a hell of bullets, killing four people says 214 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 1: he is unfit to stand trial. Let's go back in 215 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: time and listen to what a witness says. It was 216 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: just like bow bow, bow bow. It was like somebody 217 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: was just going to town on a bass room and 218 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: it was it wasn't the us the easiest thing. I 219 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: just told people jump in the bathrooms as quick as 220 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: you can. And so we pushed a couple of girls 221 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 1: into the back bathroom and then me, a guy and 222 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: another lady we went into my bathroom and locked it. Um, 223 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: and the shots just got louder. It's totally scared to 224 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: open the door. So we waited the ten seconds we 225 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: heard no gunshots, and then you opened the door and 226 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: you cautiously peek out. We saw the magazine on the floor. Um, 227 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: there was a lady face down, she was gone. There 228 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: was another lady with her head kind of tilted back 229 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: on the bottom of the actual booth um. She was bleeding. 230 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: Her leg was like completely ripped up, two shreds. Um. 231 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: And then we walked out the door and then literally 232 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: there was a man right there just head gone. Um, 233 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: look up to Syde walked as another one gone. Seeing 234 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: that type of yeah, I'll never leave those Yeah, no, no, 235 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: you are hearing Brennan McMurray, who was there at the 236 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: waffle house. Um when the shooting broke out. Before that, 237 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: you heard from the hero James Shaw Jr. Who describes 238 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: himself as a regular guy who managed to save untold 239 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: lives that day. And now the defendant claiming he is 240 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: incompetent to stand trial. So Pamela for, how is it 241 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: that he can give jail house interviews, declare himself, I'm 242 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: perfectly healthy, uh, and then has the savvy not to 243 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: talk about the facts of his case. Good question, and 244 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: it should be noted he's the one that actually called 245 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: news Channel five and the reporter Nick Barrett. Okay, whit 246 00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: white white white, stop stop right there, Pamela for, I 247 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: did you hear that, Wendy Patrick. Wendy Patrick a veteran 248 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: California prosecutor. He called Channel five and arranged his jail 249 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: house interview. I might add indirect violation of a judicial 250 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: gag order where he's not supposed to talk about his case. 251 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 1: What he calls he has a wherewithal to go to 252 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: the jailhouse pay phone. You gotta call collect, call them collect, 253 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: make a collect pay pay call, get their number, get 254 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: the right reporter, arrange a time, and Wendy, this guy 255 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: is not a competent and this is gonna be great 256 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: evidence in front of the court. Nancy when the prosecutors 257 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: attack and dispute the competency findings, or I should say 258 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: the incompetency findings, because absolutely the sophistication, the savviness, and 259 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: I understand the argument that well, he's now been stabilized, 260 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: but this then great, then he's stable he and go 261 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: forward through trial. If he's going to claim insanity, as 262 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: Troy was pointing out, that's entirely different. By the way, 263 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: that's also going to be difficult to prove given the 264 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: strategy that went into planning this crime. But absolutely everything 265 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: you just mentioned, Nancy finding the phone, knowing the number, 266 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: his voice on the phone, his demeanor, all of that 267 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: belies the finding of incompetency, and a judge may reverse 268 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: it and on that trial goes in front of a 269 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: jury on the merits where it belongs. Now, TROYE lytton 270 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: high profile l A defense attorney, I know you want 271 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: to duke it out with Wendy and myself, but hold on, 272 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: let's hear it from a professional, a mental healthcare professional, 273 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany Marshall with us L A psycho analyst. Okay, Bethany, 274 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: I did not know that little tidbit that Pamela for 275 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: joining us live right now in the Nashville, Tennessee. Just 276 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 1: told me she managed to dig that up for us. 277 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: He goes to the pay phone. He knows to go 278 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: to the pay phone. He knows how to place a 279 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: collect call to a particular number that he had to find, 280 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: to a particular reporter that he had to find, and 281 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: set up a jail house interview, and conduct the jail 282 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: house interview where he says I'm perfectly healthy and refuses 283 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: to talk about the facts of the case. Hello. This 284 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 1: reminds me of a patient online whose paranoid, schizophrenic, floridly psychotic, 285 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: has delusions, cannot go into a restaurant without thinking that 286 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 1: people can read her thoughts. But she has a lot 287 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: of money, she's a trust fund baby, She's married to 288 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: somebody who's a very compassionate caregiver. So she'll go off 289 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: her medications when she wants to get a lot of 290 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: attention or behave in bad engage in bad behavior. But 291 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: when she gets in a fight with her husband, she 292 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: will up her medications, come into session and tell a 293 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: very articulate story about everything he's done to irritate her. Okay, 294 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: The point being that even if this purpose was floridly 295 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: psychotic at the time of these homicides, which I do 296 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: not believe he was. It is possible for him to 297 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: get on a little etpc dose of M A psychotic 298 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: raises awareness called reporters. We the narrative about what happened. 299 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: He can certainly stand trial, Nancy. You know, case and 300 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: point to me was that his guns were confiscated at 301 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: some point right the guns were given to his father. 302 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: He convinced his father to give the guns back. In 303 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: that case, he defended his need to have a gun, 304 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: and his dad handed the guns over. If he can 305 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: do that with his own father, he can do it 306 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: in a court of lots. This mental evaluation has been 307 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: underway for months after the shooting occurred late April. Now 308 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: what does it mean. This means that the families of 309 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: four dead victims and all the people. Can you imagine 310 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: having John David and Lucy my ten year roles in 311 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: the waffle house when a mass shooting breaks out, um 312 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: that that they have to John Davis still runs and 313 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: hides behind the chair. When the flying monkeys come on 314 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: the screen on the Wizard of Oz. What if they 315 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: saw this? Now I want you to judge for yourself. 316 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: This guy research as a reporter, gets the phone number. 317 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: Obviously they have um internet behind bars, goes to the 318 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: pay phone places a collect phone call, gets in touch 319 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: with Channel five. They're in Nashville. Nick Barris gets him 320 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: to the jail house for this interview. Listen to what 321 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: he says. Do you think he's crazy? Stuff like that? 322 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: Since Rankings arrest, many have wondered if you'll try using 323 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: the insanity defense. I asked him about his mental fitness, 324 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: perfectly healthy. As for the shooting at the waffle house, 325 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: he wasn't ready to talk about that, and not just 326 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: in the sting of that right now. But Ranking did 327 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: talk about his pending criminal case. He currently has two 328 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: appointed lawyers, but he says he plans to handle his 329 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: own legal defense myself. Uh, you know how that worked 330 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: in a journey. It's it's just horrible. I mean, you 331 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: see people laying on the ground, you know what just happened, 332 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: And you're right, you see it happen all the time, 333 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: but when it happens right in front of you, it's 334 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: kind of hard to forget it. It's kind of hard 335 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: to put it aside. It's it's it's sad, it's tragic. 336 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: It's and your buddy, t He was a cook here 337 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: at waffle house, right, Yeah, he was a cook. He 338 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: was outside on his cigarette break. He actually waved at me, 339 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: which is why I got out of my car to 340 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: go talk to him while I waited for the crowd 341 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: to chill out inside, and just didn't happen that way. 342 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: You're hearing a witness, same Chuck, who drove up to 343 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: the waffle house at the same time as a suspect. 344 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: And I just learned something new to Troy Slayton, veteran 345 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: l a defense attorney. He stopped to reload and brought 346 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 1: along extra ammunition. I haven't gotten your response, Troy. He 347 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: managed to somehow google local Channel five and find the 348 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: reporter and set up his own, his very own private 349 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: jewel house interview where he says I'm perfectly healthy and 350 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: refuses to talk about the facts of the case. He 351 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: says he's not comfy discussing the facts of the case. 352 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: He's going to save that for trial, and then goes 353 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: on to disas lawyers. So you're telling me this guy's incompetent, Troy. 354 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: You're still sticking to that We don't let patients make 355 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: their own diagnosis, and thank goodness. I mean, heck, I've 356 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: googled myself many times and determine and we let lawyers, 357 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: we let lawyers like you on the other side of 358 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: the country. Myself and determined that I had cancer multiple 359 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: times by looking up stuff on web md. It's a 360 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: good thing that I don't diagnose myself, because luckily I 361 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: don't have cancer. But Nancy, what I'm saying is that 362 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: the issue isn't whether he was competent at the time 363 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: of the shooting. It doesn't matter whether he was competent 364 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: when he was making that jailhouse interview with the local station. 365 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: What matters is is he able to rationally discussed the 366 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: case with his attorneys and is he does he have 367 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: a rational and factual understanding of what's going on around him. 368 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: And luckily, we're going to leave that up to the 369 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: mental health professionals in the state of Tennessee. Let's go 370 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: to amulal health professional and analyze something different. Dr Bethany Marshall, 371 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm quoting from reportedly from Sean del Bess Brooks, and uh. 372 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 1: She says, today the American justice systems stroked and increased 373 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: my pain by informing my family, the monster that killed 374 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: my son at the waffle house. My son, Aquila da Silva, 375 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: was found incompetent to stand trial. She says, this monster 376 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: knew what he was doing when he took four lives, 377 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: but now he doesn't understand. I'm sick to my stomach. 378 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: This increased my pain one hundred million times, one hundred 379 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: million times, she says, can you even imagine? I mean, 380 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: Dr Bethany, I've told you this story before when we 381 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: were alone. I believe I was out in the l 382 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: a uh c n N Bureau Bethany, when my fiancee's 383 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: murderer was tried. I can hardly remember a thing. It 384 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 1: was such a blur. I was in so much pain, 385 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: it was like a haze. I I don't don't even remember. 386 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: My dad, who never missed work, would take off every 387 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: day from the railroad and drive me the two hours 388 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: to the trial. I don't remember. I can remember walking in, 389 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: going up to the witness stand, testifying, looking at the jury, 390 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: coming back down off the witness stand. I remember seeing 391 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: for the first time Keiths bloody denim shirt sitting out 392 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: on council table, and I walked past that and I 393 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: got to the defense table, and I looked at the 394 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: defendant and he looked at me, looked straight down in 395 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: his lap. And then I looked at his lawyers and 396 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: they looked at me. Then they looked straight down in 397 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: their laps. Then I turned around and I kept walking, 398 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: and I remember the sound of my boots on the floor. 399 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: There was a marble floor, and everything was totally quiet. 400 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: He could earn a pin drop when I walked out, 401 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: and somebody opened the big double doors and I walked out. 402 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: That's pretty much what I remember. I also remember that 403 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: the day asked me that I want to seek the 404 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: death penalty, and then, in my youth and innocence, I said, no, um, 405 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: I don't think you took that much into account, but 406 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: I remember it. That's all I can remember. Dr Bethany 407 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: and these victims of the waffle house shooting. This is 408 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:32,200 Speaker 1: a mother talking about her son getting gunned down at 409 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: a waffle house. So financy you and now this. You're 410 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: right when you say now this, you would think, because 411 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: you've been through this, that even if the world lets 412 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: you down and you lose a loved one, that the 413 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: criminal justice system should uphold your rights right that you 414 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,239 Speaker 1: won't be victimized a second time. But I feel like 415 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: this mother, with this exquisite and inordinate pain that you 416 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: can relate to, has now been let down a second time. 417 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: And the reason I believe this is that it is 418 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: impossible to malinger or fake mental illness. It just is. 419 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: When I have patients come into my office who claimed 420 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: to have this disorder or another, I can tell in 421 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: ten minutes if they really do have that disorder. It 422 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: is not rocket science. There are not a thousand different 423 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: psychiatric illnesses. There are a few. So I believe that 424 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: whoever was examining this waffle house murder is is compromising 425 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: their license in order to uphold their profession. In some 426 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: strange way. They have a license to practice, and yet 427 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: this is a misdiagnosis, and it mystifies me, and I 428 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: think that in this case, the criminal justice system has 429 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: led this mother down. Ranking was charged with the murders 430 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 1: of four people at an Antioch, Tennessee waffle house. Then 431 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: he arranges an exclusive phone interview with The Knees Channel five, 432 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: and he was asked about his own mental health and 433 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: he says, quote, yeah, now, I'm perfectly healthy. He says 434 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: he planned plans to act as his own lawyer and quote, 435 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: that's the thing I'm choosing to represent myself. I don't 436 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: know how that works, but I didn't like those attorneys. 437 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: How can he fix his mouth if he's incompetent to 438 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: say I didn't like that my lawyers, my first settle lawyers. 439 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I pay for those lawyers. By the way, 440 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: the taxpayers are back to Crime online dot Com investigative 441 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: reporter Pamela for joining us in Tennessee. Pamela, you have 442 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: a very close connection to one of the victims in 443 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: this case. Tell me about that and how they are 444 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: responding to this latest development. Yes, um, her name is 445 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: Sharia Henderson, and she's one of the victims. Yes, there 446 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: are four people that died. That you have four other 447 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: people who were shot and survived, and all of them 448 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: are appalled at the idea that he may not even 449 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: stand trial because he's claiming mental incompetency. Sharina Henderson I 450 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: worked with in the same building in the organization that 451 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: I worked for, the media organization. She is a wonderful, 452 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 1: delightful person. She has not been able to return to 453 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: work because she's still recovering from three gunshot wounds that 454 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: she sustained on that April day and again her parents, 455 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: her family, her friends like me and others, quite frankly, 456 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: are appalled that this could possibly happen. So, yeah, there 457 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 1: is a close personal connection to this particular case for me, 458 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: and it's just it's hard to report, quite frankly, these 459 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: kinds of facts when I know there's a human being 460 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: who may not get just to serve because this guy 461 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: is trying to manipulate the system and not have to 462 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: stand trial. You are listening to crime stories with Nancy Grace. 463 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: Now we had to Denver. A seven year old boy 464 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: goes missing and then his body has just been discovered 465 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: quote intentionally concealed. Listen to his mother. Jordan's smile brought 466 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: me joy. All I say thank you to each and 467 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: everyone if I wish you knew him personally. He was 468 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: such a happy and great kid. Our family has been 469 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: so devastated upon the broadcast there. All we asked is 470 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: that you'd be respectful as everything else unraffles the desperate 471 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: search for seven year old Jordan Vong. We now discover 472 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: that a sixteen year old girl has been to hanged 473 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: in connection with his disappearance and death. Uh it's overwhelming 474 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: to me. A sixteen year old girl taken into custody 475 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: by dinner for police in connection with the death of 476 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: a seven year old little boy, and you hear the 477 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: mother at this visual begging for the little boys return. 478 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: Joining me is Alan Duke reporting on the case. Alan, 479 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: what do we know? Well, we know that Jordan Vong 480 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: likes to play video games and wanted his sixteen year 481 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: old aunt to play with him, uh one afternoon, so 482 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: he went into her bedroom. But it was a bad time. 483 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: It was a time where this girl was upset. She 484 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: just had an argument with her girlfriend, and she didn't 485 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: want to be bothered by the seven year old nephew. 486 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: That I can understand. The nephew wasn't giving up though. 487 00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: He jumped Jordan's jumped onto the bed of this aunt 488 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: and refused to leave the sixteen year old girl. I 489 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: I remember to doctor Judith Joseph, New York psychiatrist, joining us. 490 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,920 Speaker 1: I remember my my sister's about four years older than me. 491 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: I would go to the door. She'd be in her room, 492 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: sitting on her bed. It looked like she was reading 493 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: a book very often with the jard peanut butter. She's 494 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: the one who got all the looks in the brains, 495 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: by the way, So I go to the door and 496 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: I'd open it and say, can you play. She wouldn't 497 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: even say anything. She just looked at me, all right, 498 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: and then I would get the message somehow it'll leave. She, 499 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: by the way, is the sweetest and most loving person 500 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: I know, just f y I but at that age, 501 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: nobody wants to be bothered with a sibling. However, she 502 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: didn't kill me and hide my body. Doctor Judith Joseph, Yeah, yeah, 503 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: I mean have younger siblings or younger children with older 504 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: children and homes all of the time. And you know 505 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: typical bullying is is can be playful. Sometimes it would 506 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: be really mean. However, this seems very extreme, and children 507 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: who commit murder tend to have other psychological issues or 508 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: psychiatric issues. Uh. They tend to be people who are 509 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: just irritable, depressed, or there could be something even more serious, 510 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: something like the psychotic brave happening. And we don't know 511 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: the details of this fight that she had. However, at 512 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: that age, at that age group UH teams are known 513 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: to be impulsive. The first thing that comes to mind 514 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: is the first thing that they do, and how they react. 515 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: And additionally, we don't know what the fight was about, 516 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: and we don't know how intense it was. And children 517 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: who come from violent homes or see if you tend 518 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: to be the one who perpetrate and who re enact 519 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: the violence. So I think we need to know more 520 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: about this case. It's unfortunate that a child was harmed. Well, 521 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: I know this, Doctor Judith Joseph, I I don't know 522 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: what more I need to know. You're saying we need 523 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 1: to know more about the case. I know the little 524 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: boy goes to the bedroom of the sixteen year old 525 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 1: and wants to play. When she says no, he goes 526 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: and starts jumping on the bed and then suddenly he disappears. 527 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,720 Speaker 1: Now I know that he was killed and his body 528 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: was hidden. As everyone is out searching nine one one 529 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: UH distraught, the dispatchers, helicopters, search parties, all sorts of 530 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: open spaces, densely wooded areas. Everybody's searching for this boy. 531 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 1: The whole time. The sixteen year old girl knows where 532 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: the body is. Take a listen to Denver Police Division 533 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: Chief Joe Montoya. Throughout the course of the investigation that 534 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,759 Speaker 1: was intermin was determined that a more thorough search of 535 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: the residence was necessary and therefore we attained a search 536 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: warrant to re enter the home, and approximately am Tuesday night, 537 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: officers of Denver Police Department went in and searched the home. 538 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: Approximately thirty minutes into the search, sadly, we found Jordans deceased. 539 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: His body was intentionally concealed. Last night we announced that 540 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: the child's case had become a death investigation, and after 541 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: further investigation throughout the night, evidence was discovered, and this 542 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,800 Speaker 1: morning detectives took a sixteen year old female into custody 543 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: for investigation, at first to be a murder. Since the 544 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: child is a juvenile, law forbids me from discussing anymore 545 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: about her, her relationship to Jordan's, or their specifics about 546 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: the case. The coroner's office will determine the cause of 547 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: death and the Districtorney's office will make the final termination 548 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: on charge. You're hearing law enforcement speaking to Joseph Scott Morgan, 549 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: the forensics expert. The body of the little seven year 550 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 1: old boy was in the home the whole time while 551 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: search crews and dogs and helicopters were all out searching 552 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 1: for him. He was right there in the home the 553 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: whole time. How did that happen? Yeah, I'm curious as 554 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: to why the home wasn't thoroughly searched, uh to begin with. 555 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: I think that, uh, there was something that pointed them back, 556 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,959 Speaker 1: uh to to go into the home. As you noticed 557 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: the police officer made mention of that. Uh. This is 558 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: a horrible case. It's in my opinion, it's a reactionary 559 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: event where this uh, this person was out of control 560 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: at the moment, and they didn't have the ability to 561 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: kind of squelch this anger that came up, and then 562 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 1: they hannicked and and hid this child's body in a closet, 563 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: just absolutely beyond the pale. Nancy, you think, I care, 564 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: I don't know want what you're even saying a reactionary event. 565 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: That sounds like putting perfume on the pig. Morgan, You 566 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: kill a seven year old little boy, what said on him? 567 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: And kill him and that's a reactionary event. Well, I'm 568 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: gonna have a reactionary event, Joe Scott. I wanted this 569 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: girl behind bars for life. The U. S. Supreme Court 570 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: recently has ruled than anyone under eighteen cannot face the 571 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: death penalty. But for my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, 572 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: Alan do She sat on him and held his nose 573 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: and mouth till he died and quit struggling. Am I right? Yes? 574 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: And she pushed him off the bed. He hit his 575 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,760 Speaker 1: face on the floor, so he started crying natural reaction. 576 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,760 Speaker 1: But then she was so upset by that she placed 577 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: her hand over his mouth and plugged his nose as 578 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: he was struggling for several minutes, this is according to 579 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: the police affidavit, and that's when he died. She put 580 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: his body under her bed. Then eventually she wrapped him 581 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: in a comforter or put him in a portable closet. 582 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: To Dr Michelle Dupree, pathologist and medical examiner joining us 583 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 1: Dodger dupre how long does it take to suffocate someone? Well, Nancy, 584 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: that's that's a good question. It's really not that long. 585 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. When a person is being suffocated, they're 586 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,959 Speaker 1: not able to breathe, they're not getting oxygen to their lungs. 587 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: They will pass out. If that pressure or that covering 588 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: is released, they will wake up. But if that pressure continues, 589 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: then that person will die. And it can be a 590 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: matter of seconds or minutes. Okay, ken, you do you 591 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 1: suffocate in three seconds? No, you would, you would probably 592 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: pass out in a few more. Okay, five seconds, five seconds? 593 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: Do suffcate in five seconds? No, it's probably more like 594 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 1: a minute or so. Okay, okay, all right, a minute. 595 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: Let me just remind everybody that under the law and 596 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: the time it takes you to pull a trigger, that 597 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: is enough time to form premeditation under the law, that 598 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: is murder. One sitting on this seven year old little 599 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: boy who wanted to grow up to be a cowboy 600 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:27,239 Speaker 1: and depriving him of oxygen, suffocating him dead, that is 601 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: premeditated murder. And I don't know what Joe's got. Morgan 602 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: is saying about a reactionary event, my rear end of 603 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: reactionary event. She's sixteen. She's gonna escape the death penalty, 604 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 1: that's true. But life behind bars plus consecutive time for 605 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: tampering with the body is the best justice we're gonna get. 606 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: You're listening to crime stories with Nancy Grace. All we 607 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: can do now is pray for this little boy and 608 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: his mother. Little boy Jordan long h