Speaker 1: This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the home office in Austin, Texas. Chris Harrison
Speaker 1: my continued conversation with Jason Tartik, who's here in Austin
Speaker 1: with me, Buddy, I really appreciate you being here. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you're still appreciative of being here.
Speaker 2: You know what, this seat is pretty hot, but you
Speaker 2: know what, Chris, it's always good to have you across
Speaker 2: the way. Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1: Before we left, obviously, things had gotten a little emotional.
Speaker 1: We were talking about Caitlin, talking about the breakup and
Speaker 1: everything you guys had gone through. So you know, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna jump right back into it.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. The breakup itself.
Speaker 1: When I heard from you guys, it I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think it didn't. It didn't surprise me only in that
Speaker 1: I kept you know, I think a lot of us
Speaker 1: kept waiting, Okay, when are we going to hear about
Speaker 1: a wedding or wedding so whatever. And I guess personally,
Speaker 1: what I found what struck me is when I talk
Speaker 1: to you guys, I didn't hear a lot of future plans,
Speaker 1: and so I guess the The question inside all of
Speaker 1: that is when you guys broke up, was it a
Speaker 1: surprise to you? Did it catch you off guard?
Speaker 2: Like was the rug.
Speaker 1: Completely swept out from your feet? Or when she broke up,
Speaker 1: did you say, oh okay, Like I get it.
Speaker 2: I saw this coming. Kailan meant so much to me
Speaker 2: and still currently does. And it's it's such a I
Speaker 2: get so worried that, like I want to preface this,
Speaker 2: like so when people are hearing this, if they think
Speaker 2: I'm like skating or surfacing, I just get so worried
Speaker 2: about the repercussions of what I say. Yeah, and I
Speaker 2: care still so much for her, and it's it's it's
Speaker 2: it's really really hard for me to have these conversations.
Speaker 2: I'll do my best. I to answer the question though
Speaker 2: I felt like it was it was on the horizon.
Speaker 3: Mhmm yeah, mhm h ah h, what was it?
Speaker 2: You haven't even asked a good question. It was a
Speaker 2: tough time, so to go back to it, it's tough.
Speaker 2: I'm also bad at that. I've worked on it. I've
Speaker 2: always been some and I hate showing my emotion. I
Speaker 2: hated I hate it. I hate it. I remember at
Speaker 2: the bachelor people would be like I remember someone was like,
Speaker 2: he's trying to force tears. I'm like, no, I'm trying
Speaker 2: to hide every tear and then when the camera's off,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go nuts and cry. I'm trying to get better.
Speaker 2: I felt like that at my wedding.
Speaker 1: I read I read my vowels fifty times thinking I
Speaker 1: won't break down, and of course I did.
Speaker 2: I cried like a baby, But yeah, I am, I am. No.
Speaker 2: It's very sensitive these days, especially this topic.
Speaker 1: But you loved her so much and so clearly the
Speaker 1: emotions still run deep and naturally.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Fuck so yeah, I saw give me a second, we
Speaker 1: need another tequila shot me, I'll.
Speaker 2: Get it together here. I saw, I saw it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was the way I would say is there was
Speaker 2: a lot of deteriorating complacency. Fuck. So that's my answer.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah I did. But no, there
Speaker 2: was definitely no sweeping. Uh, there was no shock. I
Speaker 2: you know, I think in general my stance is, uh,
Speaker 2: all right, it's I just didn't want to believe it, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that I need to That's
Speaker 2: a takeaway for me is that if you if you
Speaker 2: run from problems or hide or burrier, don't address them.
Speaker 2: You know, eventually it's gonna catch up and you can't.
Speaker 2: You got to step into hard times.
Speaker 1: The proverbial kick the can down the road, and you
Speaker 1: either do the work now or you do twice as
Speaker 1: much work later, or I guess feel the repercussions of it.
Speaker 3: God.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm good. Well, bring me back and get
Speaker 2: that out. Name it to drain. It is what I'm told.
Speaker 2: So I'm good now. It was just a hard time.
Speaker 2: So to go back to it's tough.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, you know, I if I go
Speaker 1: back and talk about, you know, my own divorce or
Speaker 1: own whatever, you it's like those post things are still.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's still at the surface. I think I've also
Speaker 2: put so much work in trying to understand emotions because
Speaker 2: for so long I've buried emotions and now they're like
Speaker 2: get it. It's like a floodgate in my life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because for so long I just asked it. Yeah. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's six months. I've cried my entire life. But that's
Speaker 2: with all things. Like I finally I feel good about
Speaker 2: it too, because I could finally name emotions and understand.
Speaker 2: But I'm just I'm still so mad at showcasing. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm so embarrassed right now.
Speaker 1: You know, It's funny, you know when it comes with age.
Speaker 1: Obviously you're still a young man, and I'm not elderly.
Speaker 1: I'm just older. Having my daughter did it for me.
Speaker 1: That's what changed me. When I went through my divorce
Speaker 1: or whatever, I became a hard shell and protected myself
Speaker 1: because it was so public and I was I could
Speaker 1: kind of wrap it around protecting my kids and my family,
Speaker 1: and so I just was like, I won't. I don't
Speaker 1: have time for this. I don't have time to show
Speaker 1: the emotion. To deal with my own emotions. Not a
Speaker 1: healthy thing to do, right again, being a Texas boy,
Speaker 1: you know, what do we do with our feelings?
Speaker 2: We swallow on their town inside.
Speaker 1: But he was once I had my daughter, you know,
Speaker 1: and Tay was born, and like I became a it's
Speaker 1: just an emotional ball back. Yeah, if she sings or
Speaker 1: if what you know, if she's like you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm like that with my son now too. You just
Speaker 1: opened up this whole can of emotions. And it's good.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a good thing.
Speaker 2: It is a good thing because you gotta, I mean,
Speaker 2: to grieve it and to understand it. You got to
Speaker 2: feel it. You got to be community to be able
Speaker 2: to communicate it. And for so long, like two years ago,
Speaker 2: I couldn't even name what an emotion was. I go
Speaker 2: to therapy now every like three weeks, Thank God for
Speaker 2: my therapist. And the way you grieve is understanding it,
Speaker 2: is feeling it is demonstrating it. We've all been there.
Speaker 2: It's just I my whole life. The way I've protect
Speaker 2: and secured myself is to not show it. So it's
Speaker 2: tough to show it. But I'm working on it and
Speaker 2: we're getting there. It's a Buffalo guy, It's a Buffalo.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like just like Texas. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: we swallow it. You know. Buffalo is the same way.
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of guys in Buffalo.
Speaker 2: Grind out, you know, just make it work. It's all good.
Speaker 2: But that's no way to live. And when you understand
Speaker 2: your emotions, I've learned it gives you the ability to grow.
Speaker 2: It's just that I probably don't step into conversations about
Speaker 2: that time often maybe it's even too soon to do it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it was. It was just a really really
Speaker 2: tough time.
Speaker 1: It is important that the takeaway from this too, and
Speaker 1: Laura and I have talked about this. It's you don't
Speaker 1: want to be little somebody who's lost a significant other,
Speaker 1: and you.
Speaker 2: Don't want to compare.
Speaker 1: But a big breakup, a divorce, it's a loss. You
Speaker 1: are mourning the loss of something, and it's it's different
Speaker 1: than losing a significant other. It's it's different than Lauren
Speaker 1: losing her dad. But at the same time, you are
Speaker 1: still losing something and you're losing someone. And what's also
Speaker 1: difficult about that is that someone still exists. They didn't
Speaker 1: go away, they did not die. You're going to see
Speaker 1: them at Chris and Lauren's wedding. You're gonna have to
Speaker 1: see them on social media. It's like, you know, a
Speaker 1: lot of these breakups, there's not a clean breakup anymore,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a sign of our times that
Speaker 1: we live in. But that makes it, you know, doubly
Speaker 1: difficult for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well, I think the thing is is that
Speaker 2: no in breakups, no one, especially this one, no one wins.
Speaker 2: This isn't about for me at least, there's like there's
Speaker 2: only two people lost here and lost in a hard way.
Speaker 2: Four and a half years is a long time in
Speaker 2: really important years of our lives. And so there's no
Speaker 2: no one's winning. You're both losing and growing, and so
Speaker 2: that's that's what's tough. But it's the reality of the situation. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like you know, there's there's a lot of time
Speaker 2: and energy and pain for both of it, both both
Speaker 2: of us. Right, I can't say I can only speak
Speaker 2: from my experience, but what I've observed. And so it's
Speaker 2: just four and a half years of you know, it's
Speaker 2: family at that point, Yeah, their family becomes your family
Speaker 2: and vice versa. And so it's so easy from the
Speaker 2: outside to critique or pick teams or anything like that.
Speaker 2: And I think at the end of the day, for
Speaker 2: anyone that's gone through a breakup, and I'm assuming most
Speaker 2: people listening to this have based on the severity of it,
Speaker 2: no one loses. It's just how how can you learn
Speaker 2: from it and how can you grow? And how can
Speaker 2: you do more thumb pointing as opposed to finger pointing,
Speaker 2: because it's so easy. The easiest thing you can do
Speaker 2: is start finger pointing, the easiest thing, and at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, if you continue to fingerpoint. The
Speaker 2: only thing that's going to happen is history is going
Speaker 2: to continue to repeat itself. So through the time, I'm
Speaker 2: trying my best to just look in the mirror and
Speaker 2: see what I could have done by And I think
Speaker 2: some of the things I already alluded to with the
Speaker 2: kicking the can and yeah, maybe not addressing some things
Speaker 2: towards step. You know, the idea of like, okay, that
Speaker 2: the pain of stepping into something, it would be easier
Speaker 2: to just assume that time will heal. And I'm talking
Speaker 2: What I'm talking about too, is immaterial things, right, I'm
Speaker 2: talking about everybody who can relate to like little bumps
Speaker 2: or discussions or disagreements. I'm not talking about anything material.
Speaker 2: But when you let when like little baby paper cuts
Speaker 2: don't go treated, they become infections. And if the infections
Speaker 2: don't get treated, you know, the end is inevitable.
Speaker 1: I feel like so, as you said, I never really
Speaker 1: asked you the hard question, and all this has come out,
Speaker 1: So now I'm going to ask you the hard question.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, I have a breathe in for a second.
Speaker 2: All right, fire away, buddy, Glad, my podcast is Max.
Speaker 2: I'm coming for you.
Speaker 1: Zip aal beer. All right, do you still love Caitlin?
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, Chris Harrison, I have a ton of love
Speaker 2: for Kaitlin.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a ton of love for Caitlin. When
Speaker 2: I think what's so hard is when we broke up,
Speaker 2: I was still so in love with her. Oh God,
Speaker 2: but I have an a love for her. She's such
Speaker 2: as she's very special, unique as everyone knows person, and
Speaker 2: so yeah I have I have a ton of love
Speaker 2: for Caitlin.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So clearly you're still dealing with a lot of emotions.
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of grieving, right, It's. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What I've noticed is that I bounced through. If people
Speaker 2: you know, at any capacity you grieve, I've bounced well,
Speaker 2: I've gone through the grieving thinking at times I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: I have acceptance, can fully move on. But then you
Speaker 2: bounce back. I think that's I think that's often the
Speaker 2: case for a lot of people. I think it's hard
Speaker 2: to admit when you're bouncing back between clearing and everything,
Speaker 2: all the different stages. So it is that ever flowing river, right,
Speaker 2: It's it ever flowing river.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you're cruising, Sometimes it's there's the rapids, and sometimes
Speaker 1: you're falling over a waterfall and it's crazy and out
Speaker 1: of control, and then sometimes you feel great and it's
Speaker 1: just one little thing. And I've learned so much more
Speaker 1: about grieving because of Lauren and talking to her about
Speaker 1: her dad and yeah, and her dealing with that, and
Speaker 1: in her working at the experience camps with so many
Speaker 1: kids who have lost somebody.
Speaker 2: And again it's like you.
Speaker 1: Don't want to equate one or the other. I'm not comparing,
Speaker 1: but it is an emotional loss and you are grieving
Speaker 1: something and you're still going through it, and it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: tomorrow I won't see you and we'll have fun and
Speaker 1: play golf or whatever, but it's still gonna there's sometimes
Speaker 1: it's going to, you know, kick you in the gut totally,
Speaker 1: and that's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think for like for a low, like
Speaker 2: even I don't know, you're right exactly, And it's I
Speaker 2: think when you care and you love for someone and
Speaker 2: then it doesn't work out and you still have you know,
Speaker 2: you still care. So I mean that was I remembered
Speaker 2: my therapist. There was like month three or four, I
Speaker 2: was like, when the hell am I going to walk
Speaker 2: into this off and We're not going to talk about
Speaker 2: my grieving journey, Like how is this? Like are we
Speaker 2: done with this? Like can we move on to the
Speaker 2: next topic? Like I don't know my childhood or something?
Speaker 1: What are we going to talk about the bills never
Speaker 1: winning a Super Bowl? Like when can we talk about
Speaker 1: the important?
Speaker 2: Shit? Gives me something? And I think she's just said
Speaker 2: such a good point. She's like, listen, it was fine.
Speaker 2: It was from twenty nine to thirty four, and this
Speaker 2: was a lifetime commitment that didn't you know, of course,
Speaker 2: obviously engagements out of marriage, but you know, you have
Speaker 2: an expectation of what your future will be and that
Speaker 2: takes a huge detour and reset and stepping into this
Speaker 2: and really understanding it and feeling the emotion of it.
Speaker 2: It's it's beautiful, and it's what's going to get you
Speaker 2: to what you do need. It's going to get you
Speaker 2: to the partner that will make you the best version
Speaker 2: of yourself. And so well, even now, I'm just like,
Speaker 2: I feel so embarrassed that I like I felt that
Speaker 2: way of emotions. It is it's real, I feel it.
Speaker 2: But you're right, like tomorrow, like we'll go have a
Speaker 2: drink after this and we'll be good. But sometimes when
Speaker 2: I step into it, my brain just go like the
Speaker 2: photographic part goes back to some of those dark times.
Speaker 2: And it's sad because it's the feeling like I just
Speaker 2: I get this like wave of it's I think what
Speaker 2: people are like, well, what's creating the emotion or why
Speaker 2: is he feeling that way? It's just it's a wave
Speaker 2: of just like sadness for her and me and us,
Speaker 2: Like there's a bit of loneliness. You're just like shit,
Speaker 2: and so it brings you back to that and so yeah,
Speaker 2: that's me talking through my feelings. Chris. It's a uh,
Speaker 2: I don't know what I just said.
Speaker 1: Well, no, it's a there's there's moments of what could
Speaker 1: have been, and often, if you're being honest though, what
Speaker 1: could have been moments aren't real. Like you're you're manifesting
Speaker 1: things now of how great it was and how great
Speaker 1: it would be, and that world honestly probably never existed.
Speaker 1: You know, you start overlooking a lot of the big
Speaker 1: hurdles and a lot of the big issues and things
Speaker 1: things start to like you remember good things. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: what often makes us get back together with a with
Speaker 1: an X. Yeah, and you you remember the good things
Speaker 1: and you get back in You get back in bed,
Speaker 1: the proverbial bed, and you're like, oh crap, now I
Speaker 1: remember why we broke up in the first well.
Speaker 2: For sure, which is what I personally, I think, especially
Speaker 2: like going through therapy and working through this, like the
Speaker 2: idea of jumping back into a relationship in general is
Speaker 2: I think extremely unhealthy because there's a reason as to
Speaker 2: why you broke up, right, So exploring that within yourself
Speaker 2: and growing from that takes material time for you would
Speaker 2: even wander those thoughts if you're doing it in a
Speaker 2: healthy way. Right, Yeah, that's not the band aid you
Speaker 2: want to put on the wound. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: you got to fix the band name. You got to
Speaker 2: stitch that up right, everything I didn't do before. So
Speaker 2: are you are you dating? Have you gone on a date?
Speaker 2: I mean, nothing serious enough to talk about on the podcast? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I know you're not seeing I know you're
Speaker 2: not seeing anyople in there.
Speaker 1: I knew you're not seeing anybody.
Speaker 2: I would know about that. You know, you'll get the
Speaker 2: first in trouble the next the next episode, I do.
Speaker 1: We'll be I said, we'll do it right here, Chris,
Speaker 1: I knew you weren't seeing about significant I know you
Speaker 1: don't have a girlfriend by any means, which, by the way, good,
Speaker 1: you're not ready for that. But I just didn't know, like,
Speaker 1: have you gone on any dates and even ventured into
Speaker 1: that territory.
Speaker 2: I'm open to I'm open to going on dates. I'm
Speaker 2: open to going on a date. I also know I
Speaker 2: have I'm like, you know, I gotta I'm just like,
Speaker 2: there's a lot going on in between the ears right now,
Speaker 2: right of course, and if I went on a date
Speaker 2: or had that conversation, I would be very open with that.
Speaker 1: But I just, by the way, healthy and good to
Speaker 1: warn the warning back at you.
Speaker 2: Just working through it all. So yeah, I'm open to.
Speaker 1: Going I had those conversations when I when I when
Speaker 1: you set me up with Chris. I know, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's hey, there's you know, there was somehow else moms
Speaker 1: we saw, you know here in the neighborhood at lunch today.
Speaker 1: They would be more than happy to give a Tarctic
Speaker 1: a run.
Speaker 2: Anyone you got anybody that can hand out tissues over
Speaker 2: I do think I'll say this too, Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I think part of the reason I'm emotional, right now.
Speaker 2: Is also because I have a state of comfort with you, right,
Speaker 2: Like I think ninety nine percent of podcasts i'd go on,
Speaker 2: i'd have my walle up. But I do think it's
Speaker 2: again a testament to our friendship that I do feel
Speaker 2: like I'm in a space where my guard is let
Speaker 2: down to be like that. So, yeah, I gave you
Speaker 2: a warning. It's the beginning of this.
Speaker 1: You've never sat in the chair across me before. I'm
Speaker 1: not a big fan of this, the hot seat. Who
Speaker 1: do you think invented the hot seats?
Speaker 2: You are the hot set?
Speaker 1: No, it was I remember vividly when I when I
Speaker 1: first got divorced, I'd been married, what seventeen years or something,
Speaker 1: eighteen years, And so yeah, you don't just come out
Speaker 1: of that two kids, divorced and all that after eighteen
Speaker 1: years and just jump back into it and be normal.
Speaker 1: I was not hell at all. And so I would,
Speaker 1: you know, literally tell people I would go on, you know,
Speaker 1: because the weird part is, you know you're not ready
Speaker 1: to settle down, you know you're not ready to be
Speaker 1: serious with anybody, but at the same time you kind
Speaker 1: of need to start dating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's and especially for a one out of life,
Speaker 2: Like what's weird?
Speaker 1: Is it's not fair?
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, I'm going to go out a date
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: I am not prepared to.
Speaker 1: Be anything serious because I'm a mess, and it's like,
Speaker 1: so what what am I doing to this person? So
Speaker 1: I felt a little bit guilty in that I'm kind
Speaker 1: of going through the paces because I needed it. So
Speaker 1: I felt like, how do I use that guilt? I
Speaker 1: tried to be honest of like, hey, I'm a wreck
Speaker 1: right now, like my life is a tornado. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to figure out how to make sure my kids are
Speaker 1: okay and get back to school and you know all
Speaker 1: these things I said, you know, I don't have the
Speaker 1: bandwidth to do this.
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, I get that that I think connects to
Speaker 2: a lot of my life right now. Again, going back
Speaker 2: to my therapist, she's a beauty. I'd tell her something
Speaker 2: and she said something that resonated with me and will
Speaker 2: forever resonate with me, and maybe it resonates to anybody
Speaker 2: listening to this is I find She's like, Jason, you're
Speaker 2: doing a lot of bobbing and weaving right now, Like
Speaker 2: you're a boxer. You're bobbing and weaving life and you're
Speaker 2: overthinking in this you're not in the ring anymore. Oh wow, right,
Speaker 2: like you're you're not in the ring anymore. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: there was a decision made and then you had to
Speaker 2: leave the ring. And because of that, you gotta stop
Speaker 2: bobbing and weaving. You're like the spectator that's been acting
Speaker 2: like they're in there and they're not fights over man. Yeah,
Speaker 2: like wow. And the idea is like like live, like
Speaker 2: stop overthinking and walking in actually just go live, Like
Speaker 2: it's time for you to left the gloves. Put it down,
Speaker 2: like put the weight down, put it all down.
Speaker 1: And that's phenomenal advice I had, very I love the
Speaker 1: way the analogy of that is perfect.
Speaker 2: Exactly like an example, I'll give you a perfect example, Bobby,
Speaker 2: and even bobbing and weaving would say, know to coming
Speaker 2: to talk to you when I'm in Austin, that's bobbing
Speaker 2: and weaving. But if like for me, it's like no,
Speaker 2: I'll talk to Chris. I want to talk to Chris. Sure,
Speaker 2: I have to like follow what my gut and heart's saying.
Speaker 3: Just do it.
Speaker 2: Stop trying to please everybody and everything. Do what you
Speaker 2: need to do. Do your thing.
Speaker 1: Well, you bring up a good point, and your therapist
Speaker 1: is wise. I like her, might have to have her
Speaker 1: on the show. She's a beauty, not to talk about you,
Speaker 1: but to talk about just in general. I love people
Speaker 1: like that in this world that we talk relationships with.
Speaker 1: But the added amplification of you know, Jason Smith is
Speaker 1: getting broken up with or divorce or whatever. Then there's
Speaker 1: Jason Tartik and Caitlin Bristow from the batch. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's on steroids and you feel like everybody's watching,
Speaker 1: everybody's talking, and that is what also will exacerbate the
Speaker 1: bobbing and weaving, because you feel like you got to
Speaker 1: keep all the balls in the air, right. I felt
Speaker 1: this before when I was going through my divorce. I
Speaker 1: felt like I got to keep this going because everybody.
Speaker 2: Was talking about it.
Speaker 1: You know, the late night shows were making jokes at
Speaker 1: my expense. I understood it. It was funny, but it's stung.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was still, like you said, another paper cut. So
Speaker 1: that is something else that will keep you. And I'm
Speaker 1: guessing it's something that even your therapist won't quite understand
Speaker 1: because she's never been in that ring that you're in.
Speaker 1: It's a big ring and it's loud and it's noisy,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot, as you said, read it in
Speaker 1: the Bachelor world, and everyone's got podcasts, everyone's talking about it,
Speaker 1: and so it feels huge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm such a like my whole life, I've
Speaker 2: always been a path of least resistant guy. I've always
Speaker 2: been to like make people happy and check the box.
Speaker 2: And so I always get so worried that the pursuit
Speaker 2: of not self sacrificing and just doing what you need
Speaker 2: to do is going to make people unhappy or create
Speaker 2: issues or controversy or things like that, and that's just
Speaker 2: no way to live. Like you have to listen to yourself.
Speaker 2: And that's a lot of the stuff I'm doing is
Speaker 2: like kind of like I've talked about this a little bit,
Speaker 2: but like you think about your bread and your water
Speaker 2: at dinner and your appetizer and your main plate, like
Speaker 2: just taking that main plate and like wiping it clean
Speaker 2: and like just making it me like what do I need?
Speaker 2: How do I need to pursue? What do I need
Speaker 2: to learn about myself? And so easier said than done
Speaker 2: based on personality type and stages you're at. But that's
Speaker 2: that's kind of my journey. Right now. I see you.
Speaker 1: Doing some also some things I did. You're keeping yourself
Speaker 1: way too busy. Yeah, that's called avoidance, called numbing.
Speaker 2: It's called numbing. I know it.
Speaker 1: Hey, man, I've been in you You're like, I'm busy.
Speaker 1: I've been in five cities in four days. I'm like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: you and be you're avoiding, you're avoiding being whole man.
Speaker 2: But that's fine for now. It's fine, you know, but just.
Speaker 1: When you know, you know, I think just recognizing it, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know when you go home, it's still there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's still self aware to say, hey, you know
Speaker 2: this right now is a form of numbing, and you're
Speaker 2: going here and saying yes to that event or going
Speaker 2: to this work trip because you're doing that, and inevitably
Speaker 2: that cures nothing. As long as I think you're self
Speaker 2: aware to step into the stuff, you gotta step into.
Speaker 1: My advice to you, Yeah, that's my advice to everybody
Speaker 1: going through a breakup. And again, it's only because I
Speaker 1: tripped over these hurdles. I filled my time in my
Speaker 1: life with very meaningless things. I was going to parties
Speaker 1: and going to events, I was invited to someone, Yeah, we'll.
Speaker 2: Fly you to Vegas.
Speaker 1: We'll fly you here.
Speaker 2: Sure, And I don't think I ever felt lonelier. Then.
Speaker 1: I'm at these events with people I don't care about,
Speaker 1: with people I don't really know. It's not that they're
Speaker 1: bad people. I just didn't know them, And it was
Speaker 1: I had fifty superficial conversations that night.
Speaker 2: There's no depth.
Speaker 1: I didn't dive into anybody. I would go to bed
Speaker 1: and go. I couldn't remember one person from tonight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I didn't make one connection. And so
Speaker 1: one thing I got off that marrygo round and started
Speaker 1: doing things that I really wanted to do, which going
Speaker 1: golfing with my friends. You know, buddy, you know, one
Speaker 1: of my agents called and said, Hey, we're gonna go
Speaker 1: fishing up in Oregon. Just a couple of guys, some whiskey,
Speaker 1: some cigars.
Speaker 2: I'm like, Yeah, that's what I need.
Speaker 1: So it's not that you can't keep yourself busy. Just
Speaker 1: be careful once you break up, how you're keeping yourself busy.
Speaker 1: Is there any nourishment for your soul?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I think it's I think it's such a
Speaker 2: good point. I went on this journey that was like
Speaker 2: you know, July and August just like literally sit in tears.
Speaker 2: I was. I didn't drink it all, just tried to
Speaker 2: like really be there of therapy weekly at this point,
Speaker 2: feel it, feel it. And then I went to like
Speaker 2: the September October route, which was like just friends and
Speaker 2: nose really just like friends and family, friends and family,
Speaker 2: friends and family, gonna go see it. And now I'm
Speaker 2: in this, like let's just find out, you know, let's
Speaker 2: just go here and I'll go to this, Let's go
Speaker 2: golf with Sergio and do this and all this, and
Speaker 2: now I'm going to hit the I'm like at the point,
Speaker 2: now all right, let's peel it back. Let's get back
Speaker 2: to kind of that like second stage, the friends the
Speaker 2: family saying no to some stuff because I'm thirty five
Speaker 2: and I hate to there should be no correlation to
Speaker 2: age and what your next chapter is. But the reality
Speaker 2: is we only have so many years on this earth,
Speaker 2: and I want a family. I want to get married,
Speaker 2: I want to have kids, I want all that. And
Speaker 2: so the more you numb, the more time ticks, and
Speaker 2: the less progress you make towards like the things that
Speaker 2: truly matter in life right like the end of the day.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're the host of the Batcher and I'm
Speaker 2: sure the conversations and people you've got to meet over
Speaker 2: the last twenty years are unbelievable. What the hell does
Speaker 2: that mean? Like in the blink of an eye, it's
Speaker 2: gone on death, right, you know what it's there? Yeah? Right,
Speaker 2: your two beautiful kids in LZ and your family, that's everything.
Speaker 1: If you if it makes you feel any better, it
Speaker 1: should give you some inspiration about time. I found the
Speaker 1: love of my life when I was forty seven.
Speaker 2: Fuck, it's amazing, you know.
Speaker 1: And as you know, I got married a month ago
Speaker 1: to the love of my life, and my life couldn't
Speaker 1: be better, couldn't have more meaning, couldn't be happier, work, everything.
Speaker 1: And I went through those times of even me and
Speaker 1: I was you know, obviously had a little bit of money,
Speaker 1: a little bit of fame, and life was good, and
Speaker 1: I was dating and I had no trouble meeting people,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't meeting the one, and I thought, yeah, hey,
Speaker 1: not everybody has it all right, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna maybe I don't get that. And but the patience
Speaker 1: of waiting for that person, and then when LZ stepped
Speaker 1: into my life, I'm like, oh crap, that's what it
Speaker 1: looks like. Yeah, and you know talk about the light
Speaker 1: bulb going off. So you're good, you got time.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this some point. I'm taking the
Speaker 2: host rule for one question. Yeah, what advice then, would
Speaker 2: you have for me or for anyone else that's out
Speaker 2: there that feels like they might need to rush into
Speaker 2: that because of their age? Like, how do you what
Speaker 2: do you do to avoid complacency and always pursue like
Speaker 2: the like dream relationship you imagine that you had got
Speaker 2: at forty seven.
Speaker 1: I literally just had this conversation with a guy, yes,
Speaker 1: the other day, when he was kind of in this
Speaker 1: similar thing where it's just like frustrated, Right, you get
Speaker 1: frustrated because, like you said, you know, you were together
Speaker 1: with Caitlin for five years from thirty to thirty five.
Speaker 2: Those are big years. No they're not. They're not. They're
Speaker 2: not big years. What's wrong with thirty five to forty?
Speaker 2: What's wrong with forty? Trust me?
Speaker 1: Your forties is where your life starts. Yeah, that's when
Speaker 1: it really gets good. That's the best decade. You haven't
Speaker 1: even gotten there. You're still an appetizer. But and that's
Speaker 1: not to diminish or demean but it's just what I
Speaker 1: told this person and what I would tell anybody if
Speaker 1: you're thirty five, forty five, sixty five, seventy five, is
Speaker 1: be diligent, but be patient. Yeah, don't you know. I
Speaker 1: found myself, even in this role, as well versed as
Speaker 1: I was in the world of love and dating, I
Speaker 1: kept trying to shove a square peg in a round
Speaker 1: hole of like I'm gonna make this person fit. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna make this person fit. I mean, let's be honest,
Speaker 1: and I'm intimate enough with your relationship with Caitlin. Y'all
Speaker 1: weren't perfect. You weren't right for each other. There's a
Speaker 1: reason you broke up. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you don't love her, and she probably still
Speaker 1: loves you to a certain degree.
Speaker 2: But that wasn't right.
Speaker 1: She's not the one, and the sooner you realize that,
Speaker 1: and you will, then you're gonna go back and you'll
Speaker 1: start looking for someone who is. And when when you
Speaker 1: find that, if you're patient and it's not, I don't
Speaker 1: mean sit on your ass, don't work at it because
Speaker 1: it's almost like a job, like you need to go
Speaker 1: put yourself in situations where you're gonna meet people, whether
Speaker 1: it's apps, whether it's going to events, going to church,
Speaker 1: going to your synagogue, going to your book club, going
Speaker 1: to you know, you don't have to just go to bars.
Speaker 1: That's not what it's about. Go to wherever where you're
Speaker 1: putting yourself in situations where you're gonna meet like minded
Speaker 1: people that you might be attracted to. And then it's
Speaker 1: having the balls to go up and say Hi, have
Speaker 1: the guts to go up and break the ice. I
Speaker 1: mean the good news with you, you're the ice breaking, right,
Speaker 1: you are immediately disarming, you have something to talk about
Speaker 1: Bachelor World.
Speaker 2: That helps.
Speaker 1: But for those that don't have that immediate icebreaker, be
Speaker 1: the one to go say hello, Like if you've made
Speaker 1: eye contact and she didn't throw up, or if you've
Speaker 1: made eye contact and he didn't run for the door,
Speaker 1: that's the doors open. Yeah, Like too many people go
Speaker 1: home thinking what if, Oh I should.
Speaker 2: Have talked to that girl. Yeah, I should have got
Speaker 2: up to that guy. Do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, break the ice, go have that conversation. What's
Speaker 1: the worst thing that's going to happen. Swallow your pride.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good point. I think that's a really good point.
Speaker 2: And I think the one you said about like in
Speaker 2: I think in society in general, we hold these bullshit standards.
Speaker 2: I mean it's literally probably the mission of majority of
Speaker 2: what I talk about is like breaking the blueprint of
Speaker 2: the way that we're taught to think. And here I
Speaker 2: am saying such critical years, which to me it feels like,
Speaker 2: but you're right thirty to thirty five and hopefully we have,
Speaker 2: you know, fifty sixty plus. More So, who's defining what
Speaker 2: this gap is and the importance of it? Those are
Speaker 2: made up beliefs that I've put into my head, and
Speaker 2: so I get that.
Speaker 1: It's a you know, I always say the elevators really
Speaker 1: meet when a guy turns forty. That's when you know
Speaker 1: you're still at your healthiest physical peak. You know, you're
Speaker 1: a handsome dude. It's like, you know, at forty, guys
Speaker 1: kind of always ask themselves this. You just take stock, right,
Speaker 1: you take stock if you're like, Okay, this is my life,
Speaker 1: this is where I'm at, you know, career wise, usually
Speaker 1: by forty you kind of got it figured out. And
Speaker 1: so we we guys kind of have this come to
Speaker 1: Jesus moment around then You're not even close. All right,
Speaker 1: there we go up boards and out, Hey, you're on
Speaker 1: the second hole and you spray to one out of bounds.
Speaker 1: You're still going to go play the next sixteen.
Speaker 2: Right to sixteen more holes. Go, let's swing away.
Speaker 1: You're not on the first team anymore. Yeah, but I'm
Speaker 1: off that box, but you're.
Speaker 2: Definitely we're on the second home.
Speaker 1: Man, I'm on the lf on the back nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My thing too. I just keep telling myself, I'm
Speaker 2: a big relationship guy. I just am like g at history.
Speaker 2: I have like three people I was in very long
Speaker 2: relationships with for like four to five years each of them,
Speaker 2: And so I keep telling myself, like, I know that
Speaker 2: when I do commit, it's very likely going to be
Speaker 2: a for a significant period of time. So like put
Speaker 2: in the work for a myself, and then also put
Speaker 2: in the work to make sure whoever, like the next
Speaker 2: person is the right person.
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm not saying you did this
Speaker 1: with Caitlin, but for everybody listening, don't be so because
Speaker 1: people like you and I'm kind of like this too,
Speaker 1: where you're so eager to have a relationship, and you're
Speaker 1: so you're so devout, you're so convinced that you're gonna
Speaker 1: make this work, that you're so headstrong that you're making
Speaker 1: it work for quote unquote the right reasons that it's
Speaker 1: actually working. Right, You're not trying to make it work
Speaker 1: because you want to be in a relationship, and by
Speaker 1: g I'm going to make this relationship work because that's
Speaker 1: who I am and that's what I stand for.
Speaker 2: But is it working? Is it right?
Speaker 1: Make sure it's right before you're making sure it's working,
Speaker 1: if that makes sense?
Speaker 2: And like, did you.
Speaker 1: Want Caitlyn to work out so bad because of Caitlin
Speaker 1: because you really loved her and that love was so great?
Speaker 1: Or did you really just want that relationship to work?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I don't know the answer and don't need it,
Speaker 1: but I'm just it is something to Definitely, I think
Speaker 1: we all at said times we're again forcing that square
Speaker 1: peg in.
Speaker 2: A round hole and you're like, what am I doing? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think one of the I like, if I'm looking
Speaker 2: within Caitlin at her to me, Caitlin at her best
Speaker 2: is such a specially unique individual person that no one
Speaker 2: will replicate and and and the love I have for
Speaker 2: for that person is so significant knowing that it's irreplaceable.
Speaker 2: And then I think the reality is just because you
Speaker 2: know that's the person that you are so in love with,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that's the best person for you, right
Speaker 2: and as a unit. Right. So I think that's a
Speaker 2: big one too to think through.
Speaker 1: And people come into your life for reasons and for seasons. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And when you lose somebody, whether it's to death or
Speaker 1: to a breakup, and they go their separate ways, or
Speaker 1: your friend right moves to the other side of the world,
Speaker 1: you just don't see them again and they kind of
Speaker 1: fall out of your life. It doesn't mean that relationship
Speaker 1: wasn't meaningful and impactful to your life. You will take
Speaker 1: things from this that will take you the rest of
Speaker 1: your days. And so, look, she came into your life
Speaker 1: for a reason and a season, and you move on,
Speaker 1: and it's not like it doesn't hurt, and it hurts
Speaker 1: your pride a little bit and it sucks, but this
Speaker 1: too shall pass. But you're still going to take things
Speaker 1: from that. You'll share a lot of lessons from that
Speaker 1: about what you're looking for in the next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good and bad. Right. It takes so much good
Speaker 2: and so much the life learn from. I agree with that.
Speaker 1: Business wise, are you're good? I know you're crushing it on.
Speaker 1: You have Trading Secrets podcasts. We have the new book
Speaker 1: Talk Money to Me. Pre sales now go go on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Then the book will drop soon. You can look at
Speaker 1: my instuck aus. I'll be having it on as soon
Speaker 1: as it drops. You know, I'll be naked in the
Speaker 1: bubble bath reading his book.
Speaker 2: But what else do you have? What else is in
Speaker 2: the hopper? Yeah? So, so we have the podcast Trading Secrets,
Speaker 2: which is every day. It's growing at a significant rate.
Speaker 2: We have the book that you talked about, and then
Speaker 2: had the first book that came out. I do some
Speaker 2: consulting for small businesses, so that's been growing at a
Speaker 2: fast rate. I also have an agency, it's called Rewired
Speaker 2: Talent Management. And so what I learned at a quick
Speaker 2: rate is I was able to monetize my social media
Speaker 2: pretty fast late right after the show. But I learned
Speaker 2: the nuances of all the forms of marketing to it,
Speaker 2: and I would talk openly about it. And that's when
Speaker 2: I started this group called Restart Consulting and So as
Speaker 2: a result of that, a lot of people off The
Speaker 2: Bachelor and other reality shows would come to me and say, Hi,
Speaker 2: how are you doing this? And I would consult with
Speaker 2: them and how I was doing it, and then started
Speaker 2: a talent management company. So we now have well over
Speaker 2: two hundred people in all different categories that we're doing
Speaker 2: deals with our pipeline of deals, and it's all things
Speaker 2: everything from TV appearances to social media collaborations to almost
Speaker 2: all forms of marketing in which age andcs and brands
Speaker 2: are paying talent for some type of execution. It's well
Speaker 2: over five million dollars now just in the pipeline and
Speaker 2: the business is growing at a rapid a rapid pace,
Speaker 2: So that's a big one. And then just like random
Speaker 2: stuff there was there's I don't know, there's there's a
Speaker 2: couple like random TV media entertainment things that get talked
Speaker 2: about thrown around, or that I have filmed and might
Speaker 2: come out we don't know, and stuff like that, So
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's it's a crazy but it's all
Speaker 2: centered around all this this whole world that that we
Speaker 2: currently live in, which is kind of crazy. But the
Speaker 2: agency is the one I get the most excited about
Speaker 2: it because.
Speaker 1: I know there's a I know a million people that
Speaker 1: you work with because you know a lot of mutual
Speaker 1: friends and stuff, and.
Speaker 2: You guys kill it for him. Yeah, crush it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's been that's been a really it's been exciting. It's
Speaker 2: been great. And it's more of like the long term place.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then you know small investments, invest into
Speaker 2: different real estate projects, CpG companies, stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, those are the mailbox money, the mailbox money
Speaker 1: that's a try, and the passive income. I'll let you
Speaker 1: off the hot seat, the seats hot I'll let you go.
Speaker 2: Give me a breather.
Speaker 1: I'll give you a breather. I am going to reciprocate.
Speaker 1: I'll be on Trading Secrets, so go check out Jay's
Speaker 1: podcast Trading Secrets.
Speaker 2: So where we're gonna.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about a lot of stuff, more business stuff
Speaker 1: and all that, so we will get out of the
Speaker 1: relationship space and give him a break.
Speaker 2: Oh, Chris, you are going right in the hots.
Speaker 1: I'll see you know, I'd love to see your skills,
Speaker 1: see see what you've learned.
Speaker 2: Over the years. Oh yeah, we'll be going. I've taken
Speaker 2: a couple of notes out of your book.
Speaker 1: Appreciate your friendship. Yeah, you have always been a huge
Speaker 1: supporter and always been in my corner. I truly, truly
Speaker 1: am grateful for that, and I'm grateful you sat down
Speaker 1: and had this talk. It was you know you you
Speaker 1: mentioned your kind of disclaimer, and I will give you mine.
Speaker 1: I said from the beginning, Caitlin's a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: and I had trepidation about doing this too, because I
Speaker 1: don't want to be seen as taking aside, bagging on
Speaker 1: her his his you know, he said, she said. I
Speaker 1: didn't want any of that crap. I just wanted the
Speaker 1: honesty and the emotion, which I got, which I'm appreciative of.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get in the weeds and the
Speaker 1: dirt and all the you know the stuff. I'll leave
Speaker 1: that to Reddit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I appreciate you doing. None of
Speaker 2: that crap matters anyway, None of it matters, and that's
Speaker 2: why I appreciate this conversation. I hope that's you know,
Speaker 2: that's how it the discussion. You know, obviously, when you're
Speaker 2: sitting in here, I'm sitting in a puddle over here.
Speaker 2: I'm not really sure how it all came together, but
Speaker 2: I want. It felt like nothing but love and respect.
Speaker 2: Well that's the I think the intention behind every question
Speaker 2: you asked and everything I asked was pure and to
Speaker 2: create no disrespect for anyone. That's the goal. That's what
Speaker 2: I wanted to come on and do, and I hope
Speaker 2: we did it. We did it.
Speaker 1: Cheers, come on, got one issues, one last sip before
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for being for having me. This
Speaker 2: really is the most dramatic podcast ever.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most
Speaker 1: Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time.