1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome back to our classic episode. Fellow Ridiculous historians. Ooh, 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: this is a favorite of ours. We finally took that 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: Napoleon guy down a peg man. 4 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 2: This is the classicist of classic Ridiculous History episodes. Napoleon 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: Bonaparte was in fact attacked by Bunni's Need we say more? 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: I think not. 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: We should say that we referenced this episode all the time. 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a minute, but there was a time 9 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: where this was like peak ridiculous History. I don't think 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: we need to set it up too much more. Ben agreed. 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Noel Let's Dive in Ridiculous History is a production of 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio on Shore, Friends and Neighbors, Ridiculous Historians, longtime listeners 13 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: and new listeners alike. Welcome to the show. My name 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: is Ben, my name is Noel oh and and we 15 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: want to, of course give a shout out to our 16 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: super producer, Casey Pegram. 17 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 2: Only today he is but here in spirit. 18 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,199 Speaker 1: That is true, Noel, that is true. Today is our 19 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: first episode while our longtime friend is adventuring abroad. 20 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 2: Didn't feel right. 21 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 1: I think we're in good hands because we're not alone 22 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: in this endeavor. We are joined by one of Casey's 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: longtime friends, our super producer, Paul Decant. 24 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: I like to think, you know, we're all friends here. 25 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: We hang out with Paul. 26 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, Paul is solid gold hit. 27 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed he is. 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: And listeners, you may recogniz him from some other shows 29 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: we have done, including stuff they don't want you to 30 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: know where he earned the Moniker mission control only. 31 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: This is the first time we've personified him with a 32 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: sound effect, so hopefully we can we can bring that back. 33 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully so. And you know, Paul, I'm really glad 34 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: you're here for this one. I think you are going 35 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy this show. Let's let's lay it out very quickly. 36 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: Maybe we go in with a little bit of biography 37 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: because today our episode has a couple of primary characters. 38 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say, the protagonist for today's 39 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: show is Napoleon Bonaparte. 40 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: Do you think so? I guess so. I guess he's 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: the protagonist. Yeah, he's sort of a He's a bit 42 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 2: of an antagonist in the big picture story, sure, but 43 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: in today's story, he is the one what gets a thrashing. 44 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: He's sort of an elmer character in this one. 45 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: To be honest, it really is. He's quite quite cartoonish, indeed, and. 46 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: We are talking of course about that Napoleon. The Napoleon, 47 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: not Dynamite, but Bonaparte, who was born in August of 48 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty nine, the fifteenth and passed away in May 49 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: of eighteen twenty one. 50 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: I did not know this. He was actually born in 51 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 2: Corsica and you know which which was actually suceeded to France. 52 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: But he grew up in more of an Italian culture 53 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: and then moved to mainland France and learned the French 54 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: language and went to military academy, rose quickly in the ranks, 55 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 2: and as we know, spoiler alert became one of the 56 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: greatest conquerors in military history. And also, you know, one 57 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: of the shortest guys in military history. Also always had 58 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: his hand tucked into his hoodie. 59 00:03:56,040 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got a pretty fascinating article from our parent website, 60 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: HowStuffWorks dot Com by Laurie L. Dove, who recognized from 61 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: a couple of other shows. 62 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: We give her a sound effect, like like a cooing 63 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: dove or something. Hmm. 64 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: You know, I'm gonna write to her, Yeah, see what 65 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: what kind of because hopefully she doesn't hate doves? 66 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: That's true. 67 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: We want to see what kind of bird she likes. 68 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough. 69 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: She wrote this article called was Napoleon really short? And 70 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: at the time of his death he measured five feet 71 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: two inches in French units. In modern measurement units, that's 72 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: the equivalent of five feet six and a half inches 73 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: or one hundred and sixty nine centimeters. 74 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's just below average. 75 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: It's not, you know, it's it's roughly average for person 76 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: that time. It's definitely on the shorter end of the spectrum. 77 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: But this played into some propaganda for sure, and people 78 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: would say, you know, that's where the Napoleon complex comes from. 79 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: It's also one of these things where when you think 80 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: of a military tough guy, you know, you kind of 81 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 2: want to think of like a hulking, big burly dude, 82 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: and the notion of him being a little more slight 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: is a little bit counterintuitive, you know, right, and. 84 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: It makes people think perhaps he's a bit bantam or 85 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: you know, cocky for lack of a better phrase. There's 86 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: a funny thing though, because he did not help his 87 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: situation in terms of his perceived height. He surrounded himself 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: with very tall soldiers. He exaggerated the effect because when 89 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,239 Speaker 1: he's around all, like, if you were to hang around 90 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: the Chicago Bulls or something, just hang out during the 91 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: day as you do, you would look short because they're tall. 92 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: They're giants, so it's a compared interest. And he also, 93 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: regardless of his height, he was notorious for having a belligerent, 94 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: mean spirited personality. He was that militaristic person than you 95 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: are describing. Yeah, I mean, basically was a dictator. 96 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 2: He overthrew the French government, which was a revolutionary government 97 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 2: that was installed after the end of the French Revolution. 98 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 2: That his primary concern was just kind of big upping 99 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: revolutionary figures and folks that helped overthrow the Bourbons the monarchy. 100 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 2: But they're not such a great efficient government, a lot 101 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: of corruption, a lot of problems. And Napoleon was already 102 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 2: off winning big military victories during this time and basically 103 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 2: set up a coup and knocked those boys right out 104 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: of the frame. 105 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he had at a time a tenuous scrip 106 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: on power because, as you said, he was pursuing military 107 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: goals in Egypt. I believe in Italy he was already 108 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: traveling abroad. But today we can look back on Napoleon 109 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: through any nonumber of lenses, and we chose to look 110 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: at a story that is I would say, well, first off, 111 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: it's funny. 112 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's ridiculous, apocryphal. Perhaps perhaps it's smacks of legend exaggeration, 113 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 2: at least I think so too, But it's it's a 114 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 2: lot of fun. And it involves Napoleon being swarmed, dare 115 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: we say, overtaken by acute little bunny rabbits. 116 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: A force of rabbits doing what many armies could not. 117 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: And as the Internet memes are so fond of telling us, 118 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: the thing about Napoleon is that he attacked, but he 119 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: also protect. 120 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 2: I don't know this one, Ben. 121 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: You don't know this. No, I'm going to send it 122 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: to you. It's don't worry about it. 123 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: Can we post it on Ridiculous Historians? Yes we can 124 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: our Facebook community. 125 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: Yes. Check out our Facebook community page Ridiculous History, and 126 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: you'll get to meet your fellow listeners. You can even 127 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: see kids pictures of the quistor himself, which was a 128 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: bit of a coup for us. Indeed, so we first 129 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: need to set the scene for this hilarious misadventure. You 130 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: see Napoleon being a brilliant military mind understood the importance 131 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: of not just military conflicts, but of larger diplomatic actions, 132 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: and he was involved in the negotiations of treaties. One 133 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: incredibly important one was the series of agreements to agreements 134 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: known collectively as the Treaties of Tilsit. 135 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, he had wiped the floor with Austria, Russia and Prussia, 136 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 2: and basically the Russian Czar Alexander the First just tapped 137 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: out and said, look, this is embarrassing. You have outnumbered us, 138 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: outgunned us, outmanned us, and outclassed us. Seen in I'm 139 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: not quoting, I'm paraphrasing here. Sure, but he said, let's 140 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: talk Napoleon. And so he, along with the Prussian King 141 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: Frederick William, got Napoleon to agree to parlay. Right, is 142 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: that the right term? 143 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: Parlay? 144 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, they held parley. They they met in the 145 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: town of Tilsit in eighteen oh seven in July after 146 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: his victory at Friedlands. 147 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 2: Yes, and that would have been modern day Sovetsk, Russia. 148 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 2: And what happened was, in order to meet on sort 149 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 2: of relatively neutral territory, Napoleon and his crew built a 150 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 2: crudely fashioned rafts that they floated up on the banks 151 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: of the River Niemen, where they met the Prussian and 152 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: Russian envoys. Well, it was actually you know, the king 153 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: and the sar along with their what do you call 154 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 2: it a kacher? Yeah, sure, and they decided to negotiate peace. 155 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: Alexander the First said that this piece would be just 156 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: good for the world. It's just what everyone wants, it's 157 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 2: what everyone needs. Although it seemed pretty self serving. 158 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: Right, and there were winners and losers in these negotiations. 159 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: And saw Alexander the First was quoted in saying that 160 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: this piece would quote ensure the happiness and tranquility of 161 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 2: the world. It's a bold way of looking at it, 162 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: although it seemed a little more self serving since they 163 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: more or less had no choice because Napoleon had taken 164 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: them to the mattresses. 165 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: Right he, Alexander at least needed a way to spin 166 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: it as a win for his government and his people. 167 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: That happens today with treaties in every situation. Additionally, Napoleon 168 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: was on the cusp of establishing hegemony to absolute control 169 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: of a. 170 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 2: Region, total dominance, and that was his primary concern, was 171 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: spreading French control across the world. 172 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: And you know, eventually. I mean he would say French, 173 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: but he was really thinking Napoleonic control exactly. He was 174 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: a dictator, right. So here's what happened in the treaty. 175 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: Alexander one accepted the reduction of Prussia from eighty nine 176 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: one twenty square miles to forty six thousand and thirty 177 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,079 Speaker 1: two square miles or one hundred nineteen two hundred and 178 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: twenty three square kilometers for everybody outside of Namibia the 179 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: United States. 180 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 2: M mem Mark, Well, what did King Frederick William have 181 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: to say about this? And everything I've read? He sure 182 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: seems like he was second banana to Alexander the first. 183 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: Was he even there? I think he was there, He 184 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: was just in the room. Yeah. 185 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: Here's the thing too, that that barge or raft that 186 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: we mentioned that the Napoleon and his crew floated up 187 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 2: to the banks with had these giant white tents built 188 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 2: on top of them where he could kind of have 189 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: his camp. I guess that was sort of a mobile 190 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: fl voting camp. And on each side of the tent 191 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 2: were an initial. On one side was n for Napoleon, 192 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 2: on the other side was a for Alexander. But the 193 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: Prussians were a little bit salty about the fact that 194 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 2: their king didn't get an initial and sort of set 195 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 2: the tone, didn't they. 196 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, but Alexander one was I think the operative force 197 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: on the other side of the negotiations, so I named 198 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: the reduction of Prussian Lands. But that wasn't all. They 199 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: also had to create a duchy of Warsaw for Napoleon's ally, 200 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: the King of Saxony, past the Duchy past the duchy right, 201 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: and the establishment of the Kingdom of Westphalia in northern Germany. 202 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: This solidified his hegemony because Westphalia was also harshly composed 203 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: of former Prussian lands, and Prussia itself was going to 204 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: be occupied by French troops until the French government had 205 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: received one hundred and twenty million francs. 206 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: Oh and speaking of keeping it in the family or 207 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: making it all about Napoleon rather than France, Westphalia was 208 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 2: established largely to give his brother Jerome something to rule over. 209 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: Jerome was the Jerome, the first of Westphalia, so. 210 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: You might not hear as much about as you would Napole. 211 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: Jerome Old Jerome also in the story. In addition to 212 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: these publicly acknowledged aspects of the treaties, there were secret provisions. 213 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: Oh I don't know about this, many Yeah, yeah, yeah, there. 214 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: Were secret provisions. Napoleon agreed to help Russia liberate eastern Turkey. 215 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah. 216 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 1: If Turkey rejected French mediation in its conflict with Russia, 217 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: then secretly the two powers agreed that France would say, Okay, 218 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: you don't want me to make peace with you, guys, 219 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to help Russia eat you with eastern half. 220 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: That sounds intense. 221 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: And then Alexander in return promised to join the Continental 222 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: system against British trade if Britain rejected Russian mediation in 223 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: its conflict with France. 224 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 2: This is all just so sexy, Ben. 225 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm glad. I'm glad you mentioned that because they because 226 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: these two guys got along famously, and you and I 227 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: found a strange turn that their relationship took because you see, 228 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: the public was aware of these negotiations between Alexander the 229 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: First and Napoleon. Oh yeah, and the public really took 230 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: this and ran with it. 231 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: They shipped them. Do you guys know about shipping? It's 232 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: like a fanfic. 233 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: Right where somewhere a fan or a community of fans 234 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: wants to characters to be involved in a specific type 235 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: of relationship. 236 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, specifically a bit of a steamy relationship. And here's 237 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: what we do know about the relationship between Alexander and Napoleon. 238 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: Like you said, Ben, they got along famously. Apparently they 239 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: spent a lot of time together dining during these negotiations 240 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: that lasted for several days, they would be hanging out 241 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: alone together, laid into the evening. They were seen hugging 242 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 2: each other and holding hands. They exchanged handkerchiefs and even 243 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: a cravats. What is that like a like a little tie. 244 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like a kind of decorative neck, like 245 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: an ascot. Yes, similar the thing that Freddie would wear 246 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: and Scooby Doo. Yes similar. Okay, similar. It goes around 247 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: your deck. 248 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: So here's the thing. Alexander and Napoleon really dug each other. 249 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 2: In fact, there's a quote from Napoleon from a letter 250 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: that he wrote home to his wife Josephine, where he said, 251 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 2: if Alexander had been a woman, I would have made 252 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: him my mistress. So this fanfic thing really started to 253 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 2: take off, where you've got all these images of these 254 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: two dudes embracing each other. There's even a few of 255 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: them kissing, and it really took the public's imagination by storm. 256 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: Right, it did, and this was the letter was written 257 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: in eighteen oh seven, same year of the negotiations, and 258 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: as far as we can tell, the letter seems sincere. Additionally, 259 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: Napoleon described Alexander in a quote as especially handsome, like 260 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: a hero with all the graces of an amiable Parisian. 261 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 2: This is awesome, it. 262 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: Seems, it seems awesome. And one thing we do know 263 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: is that Napoleon, at least in this will they won't 264 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: they relationship, Napoleon was in it to win it. He 265 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: genuinely believed this, but other experts and historians think that 266 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: perhaps this was a misstep on his part. In a 267 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: PBS examination of this, historian's note that this was quote 268 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: Napoleon's biggest missa. He thought he actually did charm Alexander. 269 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: What Napoleon didn't understand was that Alexander would never stick 270 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: to their agreement. But for Napoleon, the tilted peace seemed 271 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: to be his finest moment for him and his empire. 272 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: He came back to Paris in eighteen oh seven to 273 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: a huge celebration, and as you mentioned earlier, nol some 274 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 1: very strange and specific art in a way. This thread, 275 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: or this thought about Napoleon's relationship to Alexander continues in 276 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: the modern day, with some historians, such as Frank M. 277 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: Richardson even speculating that he was what we would consider bisexual. 278 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:44,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. 279 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 2: I think that's kind of not given a whole lot 280 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: of sand by the Napoleon historian community at large. But 281 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 2: there is a book written by that gentleman called Napoleon 282 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:54,640 Speaker 2: the Bisexual Emperor. 283 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. And we say this because we love this idea 284 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: of these great state powers becoming buddy buddy, and you know, 285 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: I hope they at least got along. Even though it 286 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: sounds like many historians think Alexander the First was playing Napoleon, 287 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: I hope there was a spark that, oh my god, 288 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: I'm shipping them right. 289 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing it. I want some actual Napoleon Alexander 290 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 2: fanfic to surface. We need to look into that and 291 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 2: see if any of that exists. But here's the thing. 292 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: Alexander did give Napoleon something pretty sweet. Aside from you know, 293 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: giving up a whole crap ton of his land, he 294 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: had the church, the Russian Orthodox Church, withdraw this notion 295 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 2: of Napoleon as being the Antichrist. In eighteen oh six 296 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: there had been a public proclamation an anathemization of Napoleon 297 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 2: as being the Antichrist, and that largely had to do 298 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: with I didn't know this ben Napoleon in his earlier years, 299 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: those battles we were talking about in Egypt and Italy, 300 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 2: he saw the plight of the Jewish people and was 301 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 2: quite a friend to them, and it took a lot 302 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: of steps to essentially free them from some of the 303 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 2: restrictions placed on them in that society. And that did 304 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 2: not go over well in certain parts of Europe, because 305 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 2: there was a lot of anti Semitism. 306 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, widespread discrimination, active pogroms in the ghettos the area. 307 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, discrimination terms of housing, which jobs you 308 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: could have, where you could live. And so he got 309 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: this ranking or he got this probrium heaped on him 310 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: because he was doing a decent thing, right, which. 311 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 2: Again I think of him as being kind of this 312 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 2: megalomaniacal dictator dude. And you know, it turns out he 313 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 2: did do some pretty forward thinking stuff. 314 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And he wasn't all doom and gloom and blood 315 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: and treasure. He liked to celebrate. He liked to unwind. 316 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: He liked to have a good time, especially after he 317 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: felt he had earned some time off. He's a work hard, 318 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: play hard type of due. 319 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 2: Have we finally made it to the subject of today's episode. 320 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: We have finally made it to the summer of eighteen 321 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: o seven. After signing the Treaties of Tilsit and perhaps 322 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: having some more than friendly feelings toward his buddy Alexander 323 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: this r he decided to celebrate the signing by going 324 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: off and having some rabbit hunting. He said, that's what 325 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: I want to do. I want to relax. I want 326 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: to shoot some rabbits, and he pointed at his chief 327 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: of staff. I'm speculating a little bit here, but I 328 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: like to imagine him pointing to his chief of staff. Oh, 329 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: you know what, let's have a Casey on the case here, Hey, Casey, 330 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: how do you pronounce alexand Berthier? 331 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 4: Oh wow, hey guys, I don't know how you found me. 332 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 4: I've got like a different SIM card, phone number and 333 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 4: stuff over here, not exactly looking to be contacted. But anyway, 334 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 4: since you did manage to get a hold of me, 335 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 4: you pronounced it as such. Alexand Deltier. Now, if you 336 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 4: excuse me, I'm I'm writing the metro right now. I'm 337 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 4: going to miss my stop. So do we favor and 338 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 4: lose this number? 339 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 2: All right? 340 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: Thought? 341 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 4: Do you want to get back? 342 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 2: Ah? Man, I'm sorry, we should have just let you chill. 343 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: Sorry, dude, that's been Casey on the case. Oh, we're 344 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: gonna be in the doghouse for that one. 345 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 2: We should probably let him do his thing. Yeah, but 346 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: hopefully he'll still send us one of those sweet audio 347 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 2: postcards we keep teasing. 348 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: So as we're speculating her, as as I'm dat dreaming 349 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: this moment, he points at Alexander Bertier and says, rabbits, 350 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: get it done. I'm hunting them. 351 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, be very very quiet. 352 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, there we go, kind of going back to 353 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: Elmer Fudd idea. And also for people who want to 354 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: grasp of Napoleon's personality at this moment, think about those 355 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 1: interviews you've read about the way Prince the Musician would 356 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: interact with people. 357 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: Yes, it's like get me three girafts in a mountain 358 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: lion stat. 359 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not malevol and it's just I asked 360 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: for it because it therefore it will happen. 361 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 2: Have you seen have you seen that bit in the 362 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: new John Mulaney stand up where he's talking about Mick 363 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 2: Jagger and he's like, no, yeah, give me a coke, 364 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 2: and then the coke just appears in his hand like 365 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 2: that funny not funny, No, that's that. Yeah, that's probably 366 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 2: how Napoleon talked. He also said, yeah, he's also worth pointing, vigorous, 367 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: vehemently pointed. So, yeah, he gets this guy, his chief 368 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: of staff, his major domo is number one dude, to 369 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,359 Speaker 2: fetch him some rabbits and not being one to half 370 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: ass anything. I guess this guy reportedly got quite a 371 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 2: lot of these little creatures, did me, Ben. 372 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: Yes, Louis Alexandra at bit yate guts not like a 373 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: dozen rabbits, but somewhere between hundreds and more than a thousand. 374 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: It's tough to find a specific number. Yeah, but we 375 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: do know the ballpark, and the ballpark is at least 376 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: several hundreds of rabbits. And the reason he did this, this, 377 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: this is my thinking. Tell me what you think about this. 378 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: The reason he did this is because he was, as 379 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: you said, real, go get her. He's chief of staff. 380 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 1: The worst thing that could happen is for him to 381 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: get you know, a dozen rabbits and for Napoleon not 382 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: to be able to find any, because they're just gonna 383 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: let them loose in the woods. 384 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 2: Oh totally. 385 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: They're not gonna hold them by the neck and have Napoleon, 386 00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 1: you know, bop them on the head. 387 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: There's a pretty fantastic account of what happened next from 388 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: the Liverpool Herald from April sixth of nineteen oh one, 389 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: and it references one of Napoleon's generals, t Bau. Yeah, yeah, 390 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: I'm liking that. Yeah, and he did not apparently think 391 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 2: too highly of Berthier. He harbored a quote hearty contempt 392 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 2: for Berthier, who he regarded as a toady. I love toady, 393 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: sort of a kiss ass. Yeah, a kiss ass and 394 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: a carpet knight. I don't know that one, but I 395 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 2: can picture it. 396 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: I wonder if it's like paper tiger maybe, or maybe 397 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 1: it means someone who is a knight in title but 398 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: has very little knowledge of actual fighting. 399 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: I'm liking that one. 400 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: Bag. 401 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 2: So the marshall I'm going to quote from this article. 402 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 2: The Marshal, in the early days of the Empire invited 403 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 2: his master to a rabbit shoot on his estate, and 404 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 2: bought a thousand of these animals to furnish sport. But 405 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: how can I tell it or be believed? Says Baron 406 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 2: Thibau in his memoir which have just been published. All 407 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,160 Speaker 2: those rabbits, which should have tried in vain, even by 408 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: scattering themselves to escape the shop which the August hand 409 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: destined for them, suddenly collected first in knots, then in 410 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 2: a body. Instead of having recourse to a useless fight, 411 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 2: they all faced about, and in an instant the whole 412 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: phalanx flung itself upon Napoleon. Can you translate that nineteen 413 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 2: hundred Z newspaper speak, ben sure? 414 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: The idea was that the rabbits would scatter from a 415 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: threat in all directions, that's what they were expecting, and 416 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: that they would be pursued by Napoleon and company and 417 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: then ultimately either eradicate all the rabbits were enough to 418 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: satiate Napoleon's recreational bloodlust. However, what happened instead was that 419 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: the rabbits, being tame and farm raised, did not associate 420 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 1: humans with predation. They associated humans with food. So how 421 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: was the fatal flaw so there's a huge mass of 422 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: rabbits and they are in a new environment. They see 423 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: a human being, they assume that human being can only 424 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: be there to feed them. And I found a really 425 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 1: interesting look at rabbit aggression. What makes for an aggressive rabbit? 426 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: And there are two tick marks that speak to this situation. 427 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: One is that a change in a rabbit's environment or 428 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: routine can cause them to display aggression, and they're very 429 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: routine oriented. The second is, of course, if they're hungry, 430 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 1: or if they are unaltered, meaning not spade or neutered. 431 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: And of course at this time these were unaltered rabbits. 432 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: Unaltered rabbits unaltered that is the uh, that is the 433 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: polite term. 434 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 2: Here's how, you know, how I picture this whole thing 435 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 2: going down there like this amazing clip from Monty Python 436 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: in the Holy Grail Bill. 437 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,119 Speaker 3: That rabbit's got a fish a street a mile wide. 438 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 3: He'll do you a cheat, mate, monkey Scott's I'm warning you. 439 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 2: What's he doing? Nibble a bum, he's got sheet. 440 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 3: Shot, he can leap about, look at a bone. 441 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 2: Oh man. So I really like to picture, uh, this 442 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: being at least somewhere in the vein of how things 443 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: went down, because these rabbits were just swarming Napoleon and 444 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: his men. They were climbing up Napoleon's legs on his coat, 445 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 2: and he had groups of men who were called beaters, 446 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 2: and they were hitting a the rabbits with like writing 447 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 2: crops right. 448 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, as you said, Noel, The rabbits were all 449 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: over them, expecting their daily cabbage, which they had not 450 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: received at the time, and they followed Napoleon and co. 451 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: And eventually Napoleon ran away to his carriage. 452 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 2: Just like in Runaway than the python clips. It's exactly 453 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: like that, because you know, they thought they would be 454 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 2: safe in the carriage, right, it's got doors, But no, 455 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: apparently the rabbits were just like coming at them trying 456 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 2: to like get into the carriage, come hell or high water. 457 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: They were leaping, flinging themselves into the carriage. So they 458 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 2: literally had to drive away escape this torrent of bunnies. 459 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 4: Right. 460 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: The bullwhips that were cracking didn't stop the rabbits getting 461 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: hit with a crop, a riding crop didn't stop them 462 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: or sticks from these beaters, And according to historian David Chandler, 463 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: with a finer understanding of Napoleonic strategy, the most of 464 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: his generals. The rabbit hord divided into two wings and 465 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: poured around the flanks of the party heading for the 466 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: imperial coach. Then some of the reportedly leapt into the carriage, 467 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: and the attack only stopped as the coach was rolling away. 468 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: Can you imagine what it was like to be Berthier 469 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: at this moment. 470 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 2: I bet he was feeling pretty silly. 471 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: The luncheon was ruined, that's. 472 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 2: For sure, I know, because you know the fatal flaw 473 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 2: he talked about. He should have gotten wild rabbits. They 474 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 2: would have given chase properly. They would have made for 475 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: a delightful, if bloodthirsty afternoon of you know, organized violence. 476 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 2: But instead it was an absolute ship show. 477 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah it was. He had, as reports at the time 478 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: we're describing it, he had purchased rabbits from the hutch 479 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: rather than the warren, so from a farm rather than 480 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: from the wild. And for all his military acumen, for 481 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: all his international reputation, to these rabbits, Napoleon was little 482 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: more than a reticent purveyor of lettuce. We just wasn't 483 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: giving up the goods. 484 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, long, because he had none to give up. They 485 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: weren't there to feed the bunnies. It wasn't a petting zoo. 486 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,719 Speaker 2: This was, you know, a murder party. 487 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: I should correct the slaying there that I fell into. 488 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: It was actually cabbage that they probably thought he was purveying. 489 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess that was the food of choice 490 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 2: for domesticated bunnies. 491 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: For the discerning rabbit. 492 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 2: Indeed, Oh man, you could be a cabbage spokesperson. 493 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: It's the gray poupon of It's the equivalent of gray 494 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: pupon for rabbits. 495 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: Cabbage gets no love, you know why, right? 496 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: No, because when you cook it, some people just hate 497 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: the smell. But the secret is caraway seeds. Is that right? Yeah? 498 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: To give that a shot. 499 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with Napoleon. 500 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 2: I think it's fine. 501 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,479 Speaker 1: But this is so fast seating to us because you know, 502 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: the image that we have of Napoleon is not that 503 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: of someone who would turn tail and run. But maybe 504 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: maybe it's just so surprising and so unexpected. And there's 505 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: again so many rabbits that he ran because of the 506 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: surrealism of it, you know, rather than fearing for his life. 507 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: Surely he didn't fear for his life. It's just really 508 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: unusual and freakish, and. 509 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: This is pretty cool. The whole Treatise of Tilsit thing 510 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 2: allied France with Russia. But like you mentioned earlier, it 511 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 2: was kind of considered to be a bit of a 512 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: blunder on Napoleon's part because it was not particularly likely 513 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 2: that Czar Nicholas the First was going to maintain that 514 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 2: peace accord. And as we know, everything kind of fell apart, 515 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: and then Napoleon had to try to take back Russia 516 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: in eighteen twelve in a calamitous invasion where he got 517 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 2: his backside handed to him, and writer Nicholas Caramuzine wrote 518 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: of Napoleon that he arrived like a tiger, but bolted 519 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: like a rabbit. 520 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 4: Ah. 521 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: So now now we can connect the dots right, ridiculous historians, 522 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: we can see what they were alluding to. The Napoleonic 523 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: Empire pretty shortly after that collapsed. In time swam from 524 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: eighteen fourteen to eighteen fifteen, we saw the empire fall 525 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: and saw Alexander acquired most of the duchy that we mentioned, 526 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: and it went on to survive for years and years 527 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: and years under Russian rule. As to the so called 528 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: Congress Kingdom of Poland. 529 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 2: That's the nature of the duchy Man pass it and 530 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: then you got to get it passed back eventually. But yeah, 531 00:32:55,040 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 2: for all of Napoleon's conquests and military stratage, jeez, he 532 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: kind of ended up right back where he started in 533 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: terms of dominion, right. And then he actually was ultimately 534 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: exiled to the island of Elba. And then if he 535 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 2: came back briefly and ruled for like this thing called 536 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 2: one hundred Days Campaign and then got kicked out again, 537 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: or he died in exile on another island and at 538 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: the age of Ian I think fifty one. Yeah, not 539 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: that old, not that old the guy. 540 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: The United Kingdom kept him on the island of Saint Helena, 541 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: that's the one which was a little less than two 542 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: thousand kilometers from the west coast of Africa. And while 543 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: he was in exile, he wrote a book about one 544 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: of his biggest heroes, Julius Caesar. And then he eventually 545 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: passed away, but he did reconcile with the Catholic Church. Today, 546 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: people still debate what the cause of his death was. 547 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people think it would have been stomach 548 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: cancer because his father had passed away from the same ailment. 549 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: That's ending it on a little bit of a downer note. 550 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: But I like to think on the positive side that 551 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,240 Speaker 1: a lot of those buddies got away and maybe lived happy, 552 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 1: in full lives. 553 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but wouldn't they be like an invasive species. Wouldn't 554 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 2: they have just totally jacked up the ecosystem. 555 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: Well, rabbits are naturally occurring part of that ecosystem, but 556 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: you're right in that massive number, with the way their 557 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: reproduction works, if they were not hunted, they would eventually 558 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: cause population collapse by the sheer amount of food they consume. 559 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, because like three thousand rabbits, okay, let's be conservative, 560 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 2: let's call it one thousand rabbits multiplying, you know, like rabbits, huh, 561 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 2: could pretty quickly overtake the scene, right, And you know, 562 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 2: it didn't sound to me like they had much time 563 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 2: to get any shots off at these little guys before 564 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: they you know, turntail and ducked into their carriage. Yeah. 565 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:54,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, But to paraphrase the old saying, every rabbit has 566 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: their day, and that afternoon, maybe as many as three 567 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: thousand rabbits had their day in the sun in a 568 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: very strange way. Perhaps they were speaking truth to power. 569 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: Probably not, but you know, it's nice to think about 570 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: if we write it as a screenplay, Clearly we're gonna 571 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: go a little watershipped down and the rabbits can talk. 572 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well we better get right to work on that, ben, 573 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: So we will leave you their ridiculous historians. Thank you 574 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: so much for joining us for today's episode. We would 575 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 2: like to thank guest superproducer Paul Mission Control Decands. 576 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: We'd also like to think, of course, Casey Pegram and 577 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: Alexander Williams, who can post our track. We would like 578 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: to think our researcher Christopher Hasiotis as well as Lori L. 579 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: Dove for busting the myth about Napoleon's heights. But most importantly, 580 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: we would like to thank you for tuning in and 581 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: stay tuned for next time because we've got something cool 582 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: coming up. 583 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: Sure do what they call a tent pole episode. 584 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: So that's all for today, folks, bonjours, au revoir, boncois, whatever. 585 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 2: You got taking ease today. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 586 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 587 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.