1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four, 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hart Hunger. 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode seventy one. We're talking 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 1: with our guest mel Johnson today about becoming a single 12 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: mother by choice. I know we've have a lot of 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: listeners who've asked us to cover issues related to single parenting, 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: and this is certainly one angle that is one a 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: lot of people have thought about as they build their families. 16 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: So we're very excited to hear from her and all 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: that's going on with that, and her about her life 18 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: with her young daughter, Daisy, who's about the same age 19 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: as Genevieve. Right, yeah, oh, good segue. So by the 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: time this episode airs, Genevieve will be a year old, 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: which is very exciting and yeah, it's it's been quite 22 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: the year. Quite the year. Yeah, and which means that 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: are the pumping should be done right now. Yes, the 24 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 1: pumping will be done by the time this airs, and 25 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: I am super super excited for that moment. I did 26 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: make the goal, my arbitrary goal that I set for myself, 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: to basically make it until she's a year, and I 28 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: feel kind of at peace with the fact that I 29 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: did it. I think I still, you know, made certain 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,639 Speaker 1: things more difficult this year, but it wasn't a terrible 31 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: year despite that, and I would do it again. Well, 32 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,919 Speaker 1: I won't do it again for baby number four happened, 33 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: but I don't forget my decision to do it. I'm 34 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: glad I did it. I mean, we're at that nice 35 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: sweet point where nursing is very easy and very fast, 36 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: and I hope that she kind of continues to do 37 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: some on demand even once the pumping is done, and 38 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: then if not, I'm like at peace with that too. 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: I feel like I got to enjoy it, you know, 40 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: for a nice long period and whatever happens happens, and 41 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: enjoy it, like did you enjoy it? I enjoyed the 42 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: weekend and nighttime, like not overnight to enjoy that way. 43 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: I love the like that superpower of being able to 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: soothe her just through that. It's like amazing to me 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: and just felt special. And yeah, so I guess I 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: would say I did enjoy it. I enjoyed putting her 47 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: for naps and like you know, you go from the 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: squirming kid to like this like peaceful, milk drunk, and 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: it was a lot more fun, I would say, the 50 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: last four or five months of it, when it wasn't 51 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: wasn't her full nutrition anymore, it was very stressful keeping 52 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: up with it when it was really trying to be 53 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: everything and it was and she was fine, but it 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: was it was hard. So we're gonna sugarcoat that. Well, 55 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: we can celebrate that to celebrate a successful year of 56 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: nursing a baby while doing everything else as well. But 57 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: potentially not holiday cards, right, are you skip the rs? Yeah? 58 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: Do you do holiday cards? We do, We just you've 59 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: just gotten them. Well, we just put together our one 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: for this year. We did a photo session in early 61 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: November with just some beautiful leaves. We hit the timing 62 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: perfectly in terms of fall color in our yard, and 63 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: they came out really well with the sort of blazing 64 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: scarlet leaves, which which turns out to be good for 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: holiday colors in terms of perfect. Yeah, you throw some 66 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: green in there in your set. We're sat or set, 67 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: so yeah, put that together. They should show up and 68 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: we'll get those out. And but you don't even have 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: an address really at this point, right, So that's I'm 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: trying to decide. I mean, obviously we have our male 71 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: being forwarded. I just everything's very in flux, and I 72 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: was thinking, oh, maybe I'll just put this off until 73 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: we do have like an official address and then we 74 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: could send like change of address cards. But then again, 75 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: we've done New Year's cards every year for probably the 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: last at least ten years, so I feel like, I 77 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: don't know, I don't necessarily want to break the streak. 78 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: So we'll see. Do you have a good address organization system? 79 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: Mine sucks? I mean it's Excel and I don't print 80 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: labels from it. I mean I just write the addresses myself, 81 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: which we'll see how I feel about it this year, 82 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: because I was going to do a lot more of them. 83 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,559 Speaker 1: I was just going to send a lot of cards 84 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: to people who also got copies of my last book, 85 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, like early copies of the clock because I 86 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: have all those addresses, like those physical mailing addresses, so 87 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: it's just going to send people holiday cards because like 88 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: why not. But it's starting to get enough of them 89 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: that handwriting all the addresses, that's going to be a 90 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: bit of a pain, I think. So I hate doing 91 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: it and I'm not good at like keeping it updated. 92 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: So every year it kills me, like I guess, you know, 93 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: four or five cards back a month later, return to center, 94 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: and it's like, why don't I fix this? But at 95 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: least I have excel this year. I finally did that 96 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: last year. In the past, I'd just sort of been 97 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: like would get to December and be like, oh, yeah, 98 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: who do I need to send this to? And then 99 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: I'd like go try to find everyone's addresses and new 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: which which is just so silly. I mean, it's not 101 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: the kind of thing I would ever, like, you know, 102 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: if I'm telling somebody else a productivity tip, like anything 103 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: you're going to do more than once, which guess what 104 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: it is going to be Christmas again, like get here 105 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: it will be restless again. Like you may want to 106 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: set up a system to make it easier but I 107 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: totally agree. I feel like I'm not myself in this 108 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: particular task. But maybe you know, I put it all 109 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: in one place and keep it updated. Yeah, well, maybe 110 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: i'll update it better this year. But I've still never 111 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: entirely figured out the whole mail merge and like printing 112 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: onto labels, and it's just not unless until I, like 113 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: hire an assistant, it's not going to happen. So no, 114 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: it's a lot easier. Now it's a lot easier. You 115 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: can like upload an Excel file to one of the 116 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,119 Speaker 1: major card companies and we'll that's dress them for you, 117 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: so they can even have them stamp it. But it's 118 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: a matter of having the correct input to do it. Yeah, 119 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean I think that would be my problem too, 120 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: is I like I wouldn't do or you know, there's 121 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of places in Massachusetts right where it's started 122 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: in New Jersey where they start with zero. The zip 123 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: code starts with zero, so you have to do something 124 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: different and Excel because it doesn't like leading zeros, and 125 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: so then it always gets screwed up. And I know 126 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: there's a simple solution for it, but I don't know 127 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: what it is like, So people who do a lot 128 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: of data entry obviously would know exactly what you have 129 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: to do to get the leading zero and excel, but 130 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: it's still just like everything you could google that I 131 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: could google that. Okay, yes, someone's going to listen to 132 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: this and give us the answer. That's the other that's 133 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: the slow method, just for somebody. So wait for somebody 134 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: to or just volunteer to be my virtual assistant, which 135 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: is something I need to do. Eventually I'm hiring. But 136 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: well maybe that's a goal for twenty nineteen. But yeah, no, 137 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: so the holidays, we'll do it. And we're excited to 138 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: talk with our guests, who is doing a great many 139 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: things in her life, exciting on her own. So let's 140 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: transition to Mel. Well, we're very excited to welcome Mel 141 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: Johnson to the podcast. Mel is the owner of the 142 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: Stork and I, which she'll tell about that business a minute, 143 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: and she is also the mother of a young daughter. 144 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: So Mel, why don't you introduce yourself to our listeners. Hi, 145 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me so, as you said, 146 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: my name is Mel. I have just turned forty, I 147 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: live in the UK and I am a solo mum 148 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: to my daughter Daisy, who's just herned nine months, and 149 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: I think solo mum, single mum by choice. There seems 150 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: to be some sort of different terminologies, but basically I 151 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: had her on my own using a sperm donor, which 152 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: is something we have not talked about on this podcast before. 153 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: So we were really excited that Mel was willing to 154 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 1: come on and share the story of becoming a parent 155 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: and what led to that. So why don't you set 156 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: the scene for us what you would described to us 157 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: as you're approaching forty thinking about motherhood, Like what was 158 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: going through your mind? Yeah, so basically around so, I 159 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: split up from a long term partner when I was 160 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: twenty nine. We've been dating for seven years and we 161 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: split up, and I thought, you know, I'm twenty nine, 162 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: I've got loads of time still to meet somebody, get married, 163 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: have children, it's no problem. But for one reason another 164 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: that just didn't happen. So I went on plenty of 165 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: dates but just couldn't find the right partner to settle 166 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: down with. As I was approaching thirty five, I think 167 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: thirty five is the number in your mind where you 168 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: think your fertility starts to, you know, to decline. And 169 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: I started to become quite anxious as I was approaching 170 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: thirty five to think, gosh, is this not going to 171 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: happen for me? So yeah, that's when I started looking 172 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: into a backup plan if you like, are there going 173 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: to be any other options if I don't meet the 174 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: right person. And so this idea of becoming a single 175 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: man by choice and actually having the child yourself, as 176 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: opposed to adopting or something like that. Why did you 177 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: finally decide on that? So I really wanted to experience 178 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: pregnancy and that whole thing, and I looked into it. 179 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: It took me so long to decide. It was something 180 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: over a number of years because it was such a 181 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: big decision for a number of different reasons, and to 182 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: be very honest, and this is what lots of other 183 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: women are struggling with because I worried what other people 184 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: would think of me. I worried about was it fair 185 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: to the baby, lots of different things. But after giving 186 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: it some considerable thought and having great support, particularly from 187 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: my mum, I decided I'm going to give this a 188 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: try and if it works, fantastic. If it doesn't work, 189 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: then this wasn't meant to be my route and I 190 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: would do something different. Yeah, and so can you talk 191 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: about the process itself? Imane, was it stressful going through that? 192 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: Because I suppose, I mean, you're trying to conceive a 193 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: child and you don't know if you're going to be 194 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: in to so the same things many couples go through 195 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: experiencing potential, and something I talk about quite a lot 196 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: to the other women I speak to is something I 197 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: call unknown fertility And for me, that was really stressful. 198 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: So I can see some of my friends around me 199 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: a struggling to conceive with their partner having to go 200 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: through IVF, and I wasn't even at the stage to 201 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: know if I would struggle because I didn't have a 202 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: partner to try with. And the anxiety that that causes, 203 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: not being even able to get to the stage of trying, 204 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,439 Speaker 1: that's what caused me real anxiety. I'm a control freaker, 205 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: I know lots of people are, and I felt so 206 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: out of control on this not knowing. So yeah, so 207 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: I made the decision to try IVF. I went to 208 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: a fertility clinic in Manchester in the UK. They treat 209 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: lots of women on their own, so they're really you know, 210 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: they know what they're doing in terms of chatting to 211 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: women in my situation. They made me feel really welcomed 212 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,599 Speaker 1: and supported. And to cut a long story short, I 213 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: had IVF with a donor sperm, which produced three embryos, 214 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: and on the second embryo transfer, my daughter Daisy, was 215 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: a positive pregnancy test that came up. That's wonderful, I 216 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: have a quick, sort of slightly medical question. Yeah, sure, 217 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: And it was the reason to choose IVF versus just 218 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: doing IUIS with a donor so that you could get 219 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: more than one embryo to kind of open up possibility 220 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: to the future. There was a number of reasons. So 221 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: personally for me, I felt like IUI has a much 222 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: lower percentage likelihood of working, and I felt like that 223 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: might cause me more emotional turmoil. So the likelihood, just 224 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: talking in percentage statistics, is that there might be a 225 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: lot more times where I wasn't successful, whereas IVF has 226 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: a as a higher percentage, And that was the main reason. 227 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: With the added benefit that I now have also got 228 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: one more embryo left, which is a potential sibling in 229 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: the future if I decide to That totally makes sense, 230 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: especially you know, it would be different depending if you 231 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: were twenty seven years old and deciding to do it 232 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: versus a little bit older. So I think exactly when 233 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: I did it, I was thirty seven, and so the 234 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: percentage like hed of IUI working is even lower. Now. 235 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: I've spoken to girls where IUI has worked first time, 236 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: And this is another thing that people battle to make 237 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: the decision on because there's obviously a massive price differential 238 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: if you're paying for your own treatment, and so it's 239 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: a really difficult decision to make because it is purely 240 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: a gamble. IUI can work first time, but statistically, percentage wise, 241 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: IVF has a much higher chance of working. And in 242 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: terms of the donner sperm, I'm curious what process that 243 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: was in terms of, you know, choosing that strikes me 244 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: as a sort of frat choice and it's of what 245 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: you're going for there, So talk about that some. Yeah, 246 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: So there's loads of different ways to do it. It 247 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: depends on which country you're using and which clinic you're using. 248 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: But in my case, the clinic I used has its 249 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: own sperm bank, which does make life easier. And what 250 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: you do is you complete a questionnaire where you choose 251 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: physical characteristics, and that's just personal choice. Whether you choose 252 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: something that's similar to you, or whether you choose something 253 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: that's maybe similar to a potential to a partner you've 254 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: had in the past. So you can choose hair color, 255 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 1: eye color, height, build, etc. You can also choose things 256 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: like education, religion, but for me that's more nurture. But 257 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: that's just a personal belief, so I was less worried 258 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: about that. And then when you choose them, the clinic 259 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: then sends you two profiles that match the choices of 260 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: the questionnaire, and on the profiles they've written two letters. 261 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: They've written a letter to you and then they've written 262 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: a letter to your unborn child, just in slightly different ways, 263 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: explaining why they've decided to donate. And at first I thought, too, 264 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 1: that's just like such a small choice, But actually both 265 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: of the letters were beautiful, Both of the reasons that 266 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: they'd given were lovely, and it was actually difficult to 267 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: decide between those two. Now I know other women who've 268 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: used a different spem bank. They have almost like a 269 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: catalog and they're choosing between fifty and they're doing spreadsheets 270 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: and so there's lots of different ways. But for me, 271 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: the way that it worked was easier because some of 272 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: the anxiety was taken out and yeah, and that's how 273 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: I made my choice. And is it completely blind that 274 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: like these men will never like if your daughter asks 275 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: about it in the future, is there a way to 276 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: track it or is it completely private? In the KAY 277 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: it's a really interesting situation we're in at the moment. 278 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: So in the UK the law has just changed and 279 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: it has to not be anonymous. So any one who 280 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: donate sperm is very well aware and they have to 281 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: go for counseling mandatory that when the child is eighteen 282 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: they will receive your contact details and if they want to, 283 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: they can contact you. So in the UK they believed 284 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: that this was massively in the welfare of the child, 285 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: and I've spoken to some DONA conceived children who've agreed. 286 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: They said, just knowing you can contact them if you 287 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: want to is everything you want. Maybe you'll decide not to, 288 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: but having the choice is what's required. But I know 289 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: every country is different. The thing to bear in mind 290 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: is that with advances in DNA testing, it's actually becoming 291 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: very difficult to keep it confidential anyway. So I don't 292 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: know if you've heard of the site. I think it's 293 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: called twenty three and me it's like the ancestry site. 294 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: If you send off your saliva in a sample, it 295 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: matches you with people who will be your family members, 296 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: and it's causing all sorts of interesting things to come 297 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: up where people didn't realize that they were only conceived, 298 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: but they were, and they're finding out this way. So 299 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: much better, to be honest, it would be very difficult 300 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: not to be going down the line. Yeah, so you 301 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: you wind out, you know, you find out you're pregnant, 302 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, get the positive pregnancy test. Very exciting. What 303 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: was it like going through pregnancy solo? And I'm curious 304 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: what you told people when they asked, because people ask 305 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: pregnant women all sorts of rude questions anyway, so proud Pabo, 306 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: you got even more rude questions. How So I just 307 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: came up with a sort of like a one liner 308 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: where I could very confidently just enter into a conversation 309 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: telling people straight away. So because some people were like, 310 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: but you're single, and they almost couldn't hide their their surprise. 311 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: So I said, yeah, you know, I'm pregnant. I'm doing 312 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: it on my own because I thought if I didn't 313 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: take this action, then I might miss out on being 314 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: a mum altogether, which is something I just didn't want 315 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: to consider, and overwhelmingly there is has just been so supportive. Yeah, 316 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: so I was very open with people with work, colleagues, 317 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: my boss, anybody I met really and have just had 318 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: a really positive reaction from it. And then how about 319 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: birth itself? Did you have you know, support from your 320 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: mom or friends going through that. Yeah, so my mum 321 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: was my birth partner. She was really supportive, and I 322 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: think that I didn't find pregnancy all the birth more difficult, 323 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: I think than any other person being on my own, 324 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: because I knew what I was going into. I think 325 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: it would be very difficult if you were going into 326 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: it as a two and then something happened and you 327 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: ended up on your own, because that's not what you've 328 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: signed up for. But going into it on your own, 329 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: you know that you're doing it on your own. And 330 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 1: then I had my mum alongside me. She came to 331 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: all my auntie natal classes, she she was there at 332 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,199 Speaker 1: the birth, she's and she's been with me, you know, 333 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: for the last nine months, supporting me as and when 334 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: I needed it. Really so feel really supported, and I 335 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: think friends have also really stepped up more so than 336 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: they would have had I had a partner. I think 337 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 1: they've really tried to make sure they're helping that little 338 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: bit extra that I needed. Well, that's probably a big 339 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: thing for people who are entering single parenthood by choice 340 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: to sort of set up to sort of look at 341 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: the strength of their social network and what they can 342 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: do to even strengthen it further. I mean is that 343 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: some of the advice you give people. Support network is 344 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: the number one thing that I talked to all of 345 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: my clients about and all the people who chat to me. 346 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,959 Speaker 1: So it's so important to have your support network in place. 347 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: And I think often if you're in this situation, a 348 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: lot of the girls that I speak to, they're quite 349 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: independent women who are used to doing things on their own. 350 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: I know that that's me, you know, quite strong willed 351 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: and want to do everything myself. And this is one 352 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: scenario where it's really for me, it's been best to 353 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: accept that I actually need other people to support me. 354 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: So I think I had to be really clear to 355 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: people what support I needed. I needed to understand that myself. 356 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: So I'm helping people to understand what are all the 357 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: areas you might possibly need support in, and who have 358 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 1: you got in your network, and if you haven't, how 359 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: do you meet people who can help you? And there's 360 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: so many different ways, and I think with technology as 361 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: it is now, there's I've been using quite a few 362 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: different apps to meet other mum friends. There's an app 363 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: that's just coming out Furlough that is specifically for single parents, 364 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: and that's going to be fantastic because you can just 365 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: meet other people in your local area who are in 366 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: the same situation and then you can all help each 367 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: other out and all support each other. So definitely support 368 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: network is key, and being really quite bold about what 369 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: support you need and not being scared to ask for help, 370 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: which I know for a lot of women and for 371 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: myself definitely is is a bit of a hurdle to 372 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: get over. So that's great that there's a logistical supports 373 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: that are coming in. You said, you know the practical 374 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: parts you need in your network. What does that mean, 375 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: like somebody who could take the kid on short notice, 376 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,719 Speaker 1: for instance, if you're sick, Like I mean, what are 377 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: we talking, Yes, perfectly need So I have got that 378 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: exact example today. So my daughter's in nursery and yesterday 379 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: she got a temperature a nursery call to say she's 380 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: got a temperature. So this morning I was thinking, what 381 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 1: am I going to do? Am I going to Is 382 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: she going to be at home? So I called my 383 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: dad and said, you know, Dad, can you come around 384 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:41,880 Speaker 1: just in case Daisy needs to come home from nursery 385 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: because I need a backup plan and he's got her now. 386 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: So it's having people when everything goes to plan, everything's fine, 387 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: but nothing usually goes to plan. When you're talking about 388 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: nine month old there's always sickness or something that comes 389 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: out of the blue, or something that you need to 390 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: do different. So it's having those people who you can 391 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: call on short notice. But also for me, it's you know, 392 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm still a person as well as a mum. I 393 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: need some time to myself. So who can, you know, 394 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: let me just have a little bit of time, whether 395 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 1: that's to just rest and have a lion, or whether 396 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: whether it's to go out. Maybe I want to go 397 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: on a date, go out with friends, whatever it might 398 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: be to do. So it's just having those people around 399 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: who can allow you that. So let's talk about a 400 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: day in the life of mel right now. What is it? 401 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: You know, our listeners always love hearing about what people's 402 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: days look like. Yeah, so I am just transitioning back 403 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: into working. I'm going to go back four days a 404 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 1: week rather than five, So I get up at six. 405 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: Daisy also gets up at six. She's an early riser 406 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: like me, So we have some quality time together in 407 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: the morning where we just spend some time and play 408 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: and then I've got my routine together where I can 409 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: get ready, where so she comes into the bathroom with 410 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: me whilst I'm getting ready. And that's been something that 411 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: I've needed to figure out because a lot of my 412 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: mum friends figure out with their partner how both of 413 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: them can get ready in the morning in time to 414 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: leave the house, whereas I've had to find out how 415 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: I can get ready with Daisy. So I've got different 416 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: things in place where there's certain toys that she can 417 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: play with or things that she can do whilst I'm 418 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: getting ready. She loves to sit and watch me dry 419 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: my hair, just simple things like that. But getting my 420 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: little techniques in place to get us both ready. Then 421 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: we have to leave the house at half past seven. 422 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: I take her to nursery. It's just around the corner, 423 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: so I can what I quite often do is put 424 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: my gym stuff on, walk to the nursery with her, 425 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: and then go for a run on the way back 426 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: from nursery so I can fit on some exercise. And 427 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: this is what I've found, just all these little sort 428 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: of tips and tricks on how to try and fit 429 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: everything in in the precious time that I've got. I 430 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: then come home if I'm working, spend the day at work. 431 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: I get her from nursery at about five o'clock and 432 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: then we just have a little evening routine where we 433 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: do some more playing, give us some food, and then 434 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: she goes to bed about seven o'clock. And then quite 435 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: often I'm in the evening then doing some coaching calls 436 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: for the stalk and I so a pretty full on day. 437 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 1: And then my mom stays over with me one nice week, 438 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: which is great, so I try to use that night 439 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: for socializing and going out and you know, doing my 440 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: own thing. And my mum. This is a recommendation for 441 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: anybody who can get their mums to do this, or 442 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: somebody to do it. She gives me a lie in 443 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: from six to eight one day a week, so she 444 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: takes my daughter at six am and I just have 445 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,479 Speaker 1: these precious two hours of enjoying a lie in. And 446 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: that is the biggest gift my mum can ever give 447 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: me a gift anyone can give a mind fantasizing about 448 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: that luck right now, my three year old was up 449 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: at five fifteen this. Oh no, hopefully your your daughter 450 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: will not do that to you. So tell us about 451 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: the Stark and I, because you know you went through 452 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: this journey and then you wanted to help other women 453 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: who are contemplating it. So what is the business and 454 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: what do you talk to your clients about? So basically, 455 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: when I was going through this, I felt really alone. 456 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: I felt like I was the only person in the 457 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: world who was going through this situation. It felt like 458 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: all my friends around me were meeting their partners and 459 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 1: starting if they wanted to to try for a family, 460 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: and I just didn't know anybody else in my situation 461 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: and it made me feel honestly, it made me feel 462 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 1: a bit of a failure in that sense of finding 463 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: a partner, although I felt very successful in every other 464 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 1: area of my life. And so after I had Daisy, 465 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: I thought, I want to set up a community so 466 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: that other women know that there are other people out 467 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: there who are in the same situation, and I want 468 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: to be able to support them going through that journey. 469 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: So anyway, I am a life coach, and so the 470 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: Stalk and I has just focused that in on coaching 471 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: single women in their thirties and forties, usually who want 472 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: to have a family, but I haven't got a partner 473 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,639 Speaker 1: to just look at what their options are. So it 474 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: might not be that they want to do the same 475 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: thing I've done, but it's helping them unpack what are 476 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: their options and what do they want to do, and 477 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: just making them feel part of a community and helping 478 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: them understand that they're not on their own. And I 479 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: have been overwhelmed by the number of women who've contacted 480 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: me since here in my story saying, oh, I'm so 481 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: relieved that you've shared your story because I'm in exactly 482 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: the same position. And it's just people love having a 483 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: community that really understand what they're going through. And that's 484 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: what the Stork canize about. What are the most common 485 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: questions people ask you? So the there's two big things. 486 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: The first big thing is making the decision, So it's 487 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: how do I know whether I should go ahead and 488 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: do this if being a solo mum is or a 489 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: single mum by choice is what they're thinking about. It's 490 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: letting go of thinking that I need to do this 491 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: with a partner. It's really difficult because you know, when 492 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: you're a little girl, you're not dreaming of, you know, 493 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: doing this on your own. You're thinking you're going to 494 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: do it with someone else. And so it's working through 495 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: helping people on at what time do I decide to 496 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: do this on my own rather than with a partner? 497 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: And what I help them work through is it's not 498 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: giving up on that dream, it's just doing it in 499 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,919 Speaker 1: a different order. So you know, I'm absolutely still planning 500 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: to meet a partner, just that my fertility wouldn't wait 501 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: for me to do that because I was taking a 502 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: bit too long. So so that's the first thing helping 503 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: them make the final decision. The second thing that most 504 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: people ask me is how do I choose a FERM donu? 505 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: So you know, where do I go? What are the options? 506 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: It's a minefield. There's so many different options and ways 507 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: of doing it, and you know, anonymous not anonymous, a 508 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: known donor, an unknown donor from what country? There's so 509 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 1: many different choices. So helping them work through that and 510 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: then I think support network helping people understand who they're 511 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: going to need to help them make this as easy 512 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: as they can be. And let's talk a little bit 513 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: about the dating, because you said, you know, you think 514 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: a partner might be in your future. It's just the 515 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: order of things as different. I mean, are you dating 516 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: now or looking to or planning to in the future. 517 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,479 Speaker 1: I mean, I was so exhausted with a nine month 518 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: old that I'm not sure. But you know, maybe you 519 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: have more energy than I do. Well, I don't know 520 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: about that, buy I have been dating. So I find 521 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: dating now so much easier than I was doing before 522 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: because all that pressure has been taken off me. Now 523 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: I'm dating just to hope that I meet a lovely 524 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: partner that I connect with. And you know, let's see 525 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: what happened before. It was almost like the panic and 526 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: this loud ticking of my biological clock and you know, 527 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: losing sight on was I looking for a partner or 528 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: actually was I looking for a sperm downer? You know 529 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 1: that the father of a child as opposed to a partner. 530 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,880 Speaker 1: So now my time is a lot more precious because 531 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: obviously I've got a lot more things going on. I'm 532 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: a lot more, you know, specific that I will only 533 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: go out with somebody if I really think that it's 534 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, that it's a good use of my time. 535 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: And I've had some really I've had some really nice dates. 536 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: I haven't met anybody that you know, where it's I 537 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: think there's a future in this. But I definitely have 538 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: found dating easier, and I'm really optimistic that I will 539 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: meet somebody. I just need to keep looking. And what 540 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: are you going to tell your your daughter as she 541 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: grows up? But I mean, I guess, particularly in the 542 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: light of of let's say, you know, by the time 543 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: she starts thinking about this, like you're partnered with somebody 544 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: who is then her dad. You know, I'm curious how 545 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: you're going to you're going to approach this whole story 546 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: with her. Yeah, So I've had quite a lot of 547 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: advice on this for people who are further down the line, 548 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: who you know, who've got older children. And I'm going 549 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: to be completely honest. I've purchased a book that somebody's 550 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: written that helps people in my situation explain, like dona 551 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: conceive children in a way that children can understand. So 552 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to be completely honest about it. And as 553 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: she grows, I'll just change the explanation to match her 554 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: age of what she can understand. And it's completely based 555 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: on what other people have done, on what's worked well, 556 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: and the advice that I've got. So at the moment, 557 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: it's very much just abound who's our family, so explaining 558 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: it's me and Granny Bev, and Granddad Tom and Uncle 559 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: Dan and some of my friends who I also call 560 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: my family, and just show knowing her who our family is. 561 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 1: And then and I've done that through like a lovely 562 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: soft picture book that I've made with all the pictures in, 563 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 1: and then as she gets a little bit older, it 564 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: will be going into a little bit more detail to 565 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: say families are made up from all different scenarios. You 566 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: can have two moms, two dads, a mom and dad, 567 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: just like you can have every different scenario, and this 568 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: is our scenario. And then as she gets even older, 569 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: you can explain, you know, to you know, how a 570 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: baby is made and when it's only a woman on 571 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: her own that you need to have, you need to 572 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 1: have sperm basically from a man to make that. And 573 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: I'll just sort of change the story to add in 574 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: more facts that she can understand that are age appropriate, 575 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: but be completely honest. And then if there's a guy 576 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: in my life, you know, just explain where he fits 577 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: into it all. And yeah, but honestly, I think having 578 00:30:55,280 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: spoken to donor conceive children, they all really emphasize this, 579 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,239 Speaker 1: just be honest. We don't want any surprises. We can 580 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: handle any scenario, but don't let it be a surprise. 581 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: So that's definitely the advice I'm going to take. Well, 582 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: I think that's good, good advice for life in general. Sarah, 583 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: do you have any more questions? No, and I apologize 584 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: because I have no voice, so I didn't contribute much 585 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: to no one. I would have to listen to this 586 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: horrible sound. But Mel, that was a fascinating discussion. I 587 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: think I wish we'd had you on sooner because I 588 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: think that we want to make sure we include all 589 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: types of families. And you know, this is just incredibly 590 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: valuable for many of our listeners, whether they're in your 591 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: shoes or they have a friend who is because many 592 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: of us do. Yeah, exactly, And I think if anyone 593 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: does know anybody who is in this position who's thinking 594 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: about it. I actually hold webinars for completely free webinars 595 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: for women who are thinking about it, just to take 596 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: them through some of the basics. So that will definitely 597 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: be a starting point for people who are in the 598 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: situation of thinking about it to just understand some of 599 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: the basics and where they should start. So please go 600 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: check out Mel Johnson's The Stork and I and we'll 601 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: put links to that in the blog post. Well, Mel, 602 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being our guest. We really 603 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: appreciate it. No worries. Oh wait, does Mel have a 604 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: love of the week? Real quick? Okay, I just thought 605 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: of that. Something that I'm loving this week. Let me see. 606 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to say this new app follow being able 607 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,239 Speaker 1: to meet other single parents. I am so I know 608 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm a bit geeky on apps, but I'm so excited 609 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: to be able to sort of swipe write on them 610 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,600 Speaker 1: on other single parents that'll connect me. That's probably my 611 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: love of this week. Awesome, Sarah, how about you? I 612 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: guess I'll do an app too. So I think I 613 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: had mentioned that I took Instagram off my phone and 614 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: I did get the Flume flu me E app to work. 615 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: I got the professional so it was ten dollars. But 616 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: now I can comment on Instagram posts on all of 617 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: my accoun through my computer. So that's pretty cool. Yeah, no, 618 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: that is pretty cool. I think I've said it before, 619 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: but I'm going to say it again. The Uber app 620 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: is like rocking my world right now. Yesterday I was 621 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: trying to get from a very complicated transportation situation from 622 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle of New Jersey back to the 623 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: Philadelphia train station, and I could do it. It was, 624 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, not a big deal at all, whereas in 625 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: the past it completely would have been a very expensive 626 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: car services. So it was greatyway, thank you, Melvi. I 627 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 1: really appreciate it, No worry, thank you. Well, that was 628 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: a fun interview. I love having guests with lovely accents 629 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: like that. I have a question that I picked out 630 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: of our survey, which, by the way, I'm going to 631 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: leave it open for the next month or two just 632 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: in case anyone still feels like they like to chip in. 633 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: We got a huge number of wonderful ideas and feedback 634 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: and questions from that, and you can still find the 635 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: handle to it on the link to it on my 636 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Instagram the Best of Both Worlds podcast Instagram. So this 637 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: is a question that came from that, as you'll hear 638 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: also in the next few episodes. Here we go as 639 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: a fellow upholder, introvert and definitely more of a task 640 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: oriented over people oriented person. I like to know what 641 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: family activities are so I can mentally prepare and be 642 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: fully engaged during the time. The challenge is my family 643 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,120 Speaker 1: is extroverted, spontaneous, and most importantly, they feel like if 644 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: it's on their calendar it's a task item and they 645 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 1: feel hurt by that. I've tried to explain that making 646 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,839 Speaker 1: it too my calendar means it's a priority and something 647 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: I value. My question is any advice being mentally and 648 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: emotionally present when you weren't planning on that people time, Laura, 649 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts? Well, I totally get this, 650 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that somebody who's more extroverted would 651 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: would get this at all, Like that you have to 652 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: mentally prepare even for people that you love. So it's 653 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: not that you don't love them, right, It's just that 654 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: there's a certain energy that you put into people and 655 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: then certain things that you do to like be your 656 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: introverted self too, and so you're trying to kind of 657 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: balance the two of these, and you can put in 658 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: a lot of people time, but you kind of want 659 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: to know, right, and you want to know what you're 660 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: getting into so you can sort of manage your energy 661 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: for say, you know, three hours of ice skating with 662 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: the family, Like that's a certain amount of energy you're 663 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: planning for that. Or if it's like, you know, two 664 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: hours going on a walk somewhere, you want to know that. 665 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: Or if it's like three hours that you're all just 666 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: hanging out at home watching a movie, that's a different 667 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: sort of energy. But you just want to sort of 668 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: prepare yourself for these things. And so I totally understand, 669 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: and I can also understand how other people viewing that 670 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: would be, like, what do you mean you need to 671 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: prepare your energy to see me? It's like, way, I 672 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: thought you loved me. Why are you even saying this? 673 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: But I think that. So I'm trying to, you know, 674 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: figure out what would be a good way for her 675 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: to convey this without her, because it's also that they 676 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: like to switch plans too, Like they don't feel that 677 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: switching plans is a big deal where she does, right, 678 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean, so maybe you're splitting the difference because you're 679 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: a very extroverted person. But you like, it's an extroverted person. 680 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: I like the structure. So my way of thinking was 681 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: more like, Okay, I'm just going to have to decide 682 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: that like that, you know, whatever full day. You know, 683 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: at least they could probably commit to, like a full day, 684 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: like we're going to spend Friday together, even if they 685 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: don't have an agenda. If they can't commit to that, 686 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: then I mean, I don't know, at some point both 687 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: sides probably have to compromise. And I think that's a 688 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 1: reasonable compromise, Like it's Friday going to be a family day. Okay, 689 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: Well if that's the case, then like I can just 690 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: kind of succumb to that and think, if I, you know, 691 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: I could visualize my planner, it would just be like 692 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: it would say unstructured family time. And I know that's 693 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: so silly, but you know, by having it sort of 694 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: intentionally dedicated for me, that's enough of a structure even 695 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: in my mind to kind of just make peace with it. 696 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: And I don't think that's necessarily going to work for everyone. 697 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: And I see what you're saying about the mental energy 698 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: of extraversion, which is not as much of an issue 699 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: for me, But I wonder if that person, the person 700 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,320 Speaker 1: who wrote in, could sort of give them her agenda, 701 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: like I was. I was suggesting that perhaps she could 702 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 1: tell them what is not family time, like when she 703 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: won't be available, like well, we can do whatever you 704 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: guys want together on Friday, just so you know, I'm 705 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:10,760 Speaker 1: not going to be there on Saturday because I have plants, 706 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: you know. And then she can kind of craft her 707 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: own mixed agenda and they can either go with it 708 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 1: or not. And this this goes a little bit too. 709 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: You know those tendencies that that Gretchen Rubin likes to 710 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 1: talk about, where you know, if they're rebels, they're not 711 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: going to want to be planned for, Like they're not 712 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 1: going to want you to say, well we're going to 713 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: do this, like they're gonna they're going to bristle at that. 714 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: But you can say I'm going to do this and 715 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,399 Speaker 1: you could come if you feel like it, and then 716 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: that may appeal to them. And you can kind of 717 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 1: have your cake and eat it too by having the 718 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: agenda that you want and having it either be family 719 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: or time or not, but leaving that choice to them. 720 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: I mean, this this does sound though, like it's a challenge. 721 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 1: So I would also say that you know, sort of 722 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: vague plans that can be done whenever are the sorts 723 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 1: of things that the spontaneous sorts like to move around 724 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: for reasons that are known only to them. I mean, 725 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 1: I'm a planner, so I I don't you know, I 726 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: don't get it, but but they do, you know, like, oh, 727 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: but maybe in the mood moment, we'll feel like doing 728 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: something different or whatever. But one thing you could do, though, 729 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: is if you have like tickets to something. Even people 730 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,239 Speaker 1: are more spontaneous are less likely to kind of want 731 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: to move that around, Like if there's already been some 732 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: level of commitment like oh, you know, I got us 733 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: tickets for X, And that can be a way of 734 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,879 Speaker 1: sort of planning at least one event that you know 735 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: that that's what you're thinking of. You plan your energy 736 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: for that family event and then maybe the rest of 737 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,439 Speaker 1: the day goes as it good. Or you can even 738 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,399 Speaker 1: just buy your own ticket and be like I'm going 739 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: to that, and you can if you'd like, Because I 740 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: also just feel like, I think this person needs to 741 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: not impose there. They have to be very careful enough 742 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: to impose their preferences of planning. No, that's true on 743 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: the other it would be like, oh, this sounded like 744 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: something really fun for all of us, and there's still 745 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: more tickets available. I'm going available. Yeah, it's I mean, 746 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: this is just the reality. And we're coming into the 747 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: holidays here, like planning for extended families and trying to 748 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: get everyone together to do something, and the reality is 749 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,759 Speaker 1: you can't ever please everyone, and there's always gonna be 750 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: like someone who doesn't go to something because they don't 751 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: like to do it, or they aren't feeling good, or 752 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: it just you know, wasn't gonna work out for that. 753 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: You can't. I think everyone on all sides has to 754 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: just sort of be a little bit less sensitive to 755 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: all of this. Just realize, you know, as long as 756 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,359 Speaker 1: we're to gather and having some fun time, you know, 757 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: we don't need to have every day of an extended 758 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,439 Speaker 1: family get together be everyone doing everything together. And you're 759 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 1: allowed to have your own stuff that you're happy with 760 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: if you need a little bit of time away, you know, 761 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: especially if this is like in laws, you can let 762 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: your you know, spouse deal with it for a while 763 00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: while you go do something else. You know, just think 764 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: about what you really would like for you to do 765 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: over the time as long as it's not the whole day, 766 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 1: maybe it's an hour or two of your stuff during 767 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: the day, you'll probably be fine. And as long as 768 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 1: you know you're getting to do your stuff that can 769 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: often go along. Yes, extended family get togethers feel much better, 770 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: I agree. Yeah, well great, Well this has been Best 771 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,600 Speaker 1: of Both Worlds. An episode where we've been talking with 772 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: mel Johnson about being a single mom by choice and 773 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: the logistics of becoming one and how she's dealing with that. 774 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,919 Speaker 1: So tune in next week for more on making work 775 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:22,879 Speaker 1: and life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find 776 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the 777 00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura 778 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the Best 779 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for 780 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: more on making work and life work together.