1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 2: De Van of Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie missing day twenty five, 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: with FBI finally involved late to the party because of 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 2: a late invitation. I might add sheriff's boots on the ground, 5 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: the latest in technology. 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 3: How is this happening? 7 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: Could the porch guy out smart a host of law enforcement? 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 4: This? 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 2: As we learn searches extending with volunteers who. 10 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 3: Refused to give up. 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: We are also learning that contrary to speculation that Nancy 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: Guthrie answered the door and allowed the perp in, she 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: was actually physically removed forcibly removed from her own bed, 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: A little old lady dragged out of her own bed. 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: We're learning that, as we also understand, Savannah Guthrie wanted 16 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,199 Speaker 2: to offer the one million dollar reward on day one, 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: but apparently Nanos said no, I'm Nancy Grace, this is 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: Crime Stories. 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 3: I want to thank you for being with us. 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 5: Our mom was taken in the dark of night from 21 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 5: her bed, and every long night has been agony since then. 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: Whoever knows about Nancy Guthrie's whereabout that sees that and 23 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: does not act, must have a heart of stone. 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 5: Please be the light in the dark. 25 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: There has been a lot of speculation that it is 26 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: actually victim blaming, that Nancy Guthrie went to the front 27 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: door and allowed her kidnapper to come in. 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: Nothing could be further from the truth. 29 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: Straight out to Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, 30 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: we now know that in those critical forty one minutes 31 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: forty one minutes, at least one PERP was in Nancy 32 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: Guthrie's home. And this is an important fact and it 33 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 2: can prove something. It's probative. We now know that Nancy 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 2: Guthrie was forced out of her own bed, lying there 35 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: asleep around two o'clock in the morning, an. 36 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 3: Eighty four year old woman. 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: What do we know? 38 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 6: We know that when Savannah Guthrie posted the video the 39 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 6: other day, it was so shocking Delta Fill missed what 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 6: she said. 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 7: She said that. 42 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 6: Her mother was taken from her bed in the middle 43 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 6: of the night. That tells us everything that we originally 44 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 6: thought that the intruder or intruders came into the home, 45 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 6: snuck into her room, awakened her out of a dead sleep, 46 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 6: and took this eighty four year old grandmother out of 47 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 6: her own bed. What it does also tell us Nancy 48 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 6: is that we might have forensic evidence left behind on 49 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 6: the bed, in the bedroom, on the floor, on the nightstand. 50 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 6: There's no any wonder of places where our kidnapper or 51 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 6: kidnappers could have touched, dropped, felt, anything, but again taken 52 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 6: out of her bedroom. Think about that for a minute. 53 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 6: Eighty four years old and you're pulled out of bed. 54 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 6: It's not an easy trip. 55 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: Joining us. 56 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: Misty gillis DNA expert investigative genetic genealogist at Purrabon Nano Labs. 57 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: This is one of their specialties at Pirabon. 58 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: They focus on very. 59 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: Difficult cases like a minuscule amount of DNA, degraded DNA, 60 00:03:58,360 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: a mixture of DNA. 61 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: When you are, Missy, thank you for being with us. 62 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: When you hear the latest that Nancy was taken out 63 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: off her bed forcibly taken. What DNA possibilities does that 64 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: open up in your mind? 65 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 8: What opens up the possibility of there being traced amounts 66 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,239 Speaker 8: of DNA found in that bedroom area like it was said, 67 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 8: Possibly it was a nightstand that was touched. Possibly the 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 8: forcible removal of Nancy had left priest DNA in that 69 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 8: bedroom area. There must be a reason investigators are exactly 70 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 8: saying that it was the bedroom she was taken from, 71 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 8: versus answering her door. 72 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 3: You know, I'm thinking through what we know now. 73 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: What did the perp do in those critical forty one minutes. 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: First of all, we know he got in. We see 75 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: him coming in the front door. We know that when 76 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: he left the door remained unlocked. We don't know if 77 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: it was locked when he entered. But to Mike Gould 78 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: joining us for now, I saw a county lieutenant. Founding 79 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: member of the New York Police Department K nine unit 80 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:10,119 Speaker 2: has led multiple multiple investigations into missing people and even 81 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 2: serial killers, including gilgo Beach, former National Guard, and worked 82 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: with the Secret Service with two presidents. Mike Gould, thank 83 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: you for being with us. Let's just try to walk through. 84 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: Now. 85 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: What I would always do on a crime scene is first, 86 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 2: take off my shoes, put on booties if we had them, 87 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: and walk in very slowly. Why slowly, because I wanted 88 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: to look around. If I had the route the perp 89 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: took step by step. With each step or two, I 90 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: would stop and look around because there might be a 91 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 2: light switch, there might be a surface that could be touched, 92 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 2: all sorts of possibilities open up if you look and 93 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: take your time. So we know he comes in through 94 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: We think through that door. At least one purp comes 95 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: in through the front door. What would you do with 96 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: the knowledge that the first thing the perp does is 97 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: go to Nancy Guthrie's room and forcibly removes her from 98 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: her bed. We think that's the first thing he did. 99 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: Maybe he checked to see if the nanny cams were 100 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: working inside the home. We know there were nannycams. So 101 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: help us retrace what the purp did in those crucial 102 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: forty one minutes and what evidence we can get from that, 103 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: such as touch DNA. 104 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 9: Prime scene investigation is both an art and a science, 105 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 9: and as you quite correctly said, Nancy, Nancy, it has 106 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 9: to be methodically done and evidence has to be preserved. 107 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 9: I have been critical of the sheriff in this case 108 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 9: from day one, and I got criticism from my fellow 109 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,359 Speaker 9: colleagues and law enforcement for doing that. It is not 110 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 9: a criticism of the investigators, it's not a criticism of 111 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 9: the FBI. 112 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 4: It's the criticism not personal. This sheriff is not a 113 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 4: trained public information officer. He's not familiar with media relations 114 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 4: and he just shouldn't be spouting out and blaming the 115 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 4: media for overreacting and so forth. So my criticism hasn't changed. 116 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 4: I don't the analysis has not changed at all if 117 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 4: you think about what has changed in the last almost 118 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 4: month now as far as evidence is concerned. 119 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: When you think and try to retrace what the perp 120 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: did upon entering Nancy Guthrie's home, that's what I want 121 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: to focus on. I want to focus on getting evidence. 122 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 2: For instance, mister gillis back to you DNA expert eight 123 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: years with over forty positive lads generated in cold and 124 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: act of cases. That is a lot that's cracking a 125 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: case about once a week. 126 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 3: That's pretty impressive in your line of work. 127 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: What difference would it make, for instance, if Nancy Guthrie 128 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 2: had hardwood or carpet, tablecloths or no tablecloths, choch keys 129 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: sitting around, little items and figurines or none, a dog, 130 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: a cat or no dog or cat. All of these 131 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: things equal evidence. 132 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 8: Explain, Misty, You're gonna want to look at those most 133 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 8: more porous samples. There's a device called an mback that's 134 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 8: essentially a wet vacuum that will pull DNA and forensic 135 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 8: evidence from those porous surfaces. 136 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 4: So if there was something like. 137 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 8: Carpeted flooring and he wasn't wearing booties, he say had 138 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 8: touched the carpet, touched the bedding, touched to the pillow, 139 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 8: that MBACT could pull that DNA evidence from that porous surface. 140 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 8: When it gets to more non poor surfaces like hardwood 141 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 8: and things like that, this. 142 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: Can still be Okay, So down just a second, Misty, 143 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: if you don't mind, I want to make sure I 144 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: understand everything that you just said. And that was a 145 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: lot you were talking about the bedding. Okay, Now, now 146 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 2: you've gotten past the door. If her door was closed, 147 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: then he touched the doorknob. He very likely turned on 148 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: the light switch. He may have touched the bed frame 149 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 2: itself or her bedside table. He may have touched her 150 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: cell phone, which we understand was near her bedside that 151 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 2: was left behind. Okay, so we've gotten past that, and 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: I'll circle back to carpet, hardwood, pet, no pet, chotsky, 153 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: figurine sitting. 154 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: Around or none. I want to circle back to that. 155 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 3: You've taken me to straight to the bedroom. So we have. 156 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 2: Gone from the front door. Suddenly we're in the bedroom. 157 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 8: Okay, what so walking in the door, there could be 158 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 8: carpet on the ground. 159 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: There could be hardwood flooring. 160 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 8: If there's carpet to poorus sample, that could an ENDBAC 161 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 8: could be used on to collect DNA from. There could 162 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 8: be a touch on a light switch. There could be 163 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 8: a touch on a table. There could be objects that 164 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 8: are touched that could be swabbed for that trace DNA. 165 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 8: Now as he makes his way throughout the house, there 166 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 8: could be multiple touch points. There could be a railing 167 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 8: on the stairs, There could be a wall that could 168 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 8: be touched. Those are surfaces that could be swabbed for 169 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 8: that trace DNA as well. And then once he enters 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 8: the bedroom, again we have things like light switches, we 171 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 8: have a nightstand, we have the possible headboard. 172 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 4: If he did physically remove her. 173 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 8: From the bed, there could be DNA that's left on 174 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 8: that bedding, on those pillowcases, on her cellphone that perhaps 175 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 8: was on. 176 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 4: The night stand. 177 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 8: These are all areas that need to be looked. 178 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 4: Back for that. 179 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,439 Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace. 180 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: We're talking about in the banning, they cover the sheets, 181 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: the pillow case. How do you get DNA off of 182 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: that as opposed to a hard surface. 183 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 8: What we would typically use is a device called an MBAC. 184 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 8: It's a wet vacuum that is used to essentially go 185 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 8: over the surface. Think of you a carpet cleaner, but 186 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 8: it's specifically made with a filter that collects DNA and 187 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 8: that filter can be swabbed and a profile can be 188 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 8: developed from what was collected from that bedding. 189 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 4: For example. 190 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: Now let me understand that MBAT would be used on 191 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: a poorous surface such as the betting. Is that what 192 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: you're saying, yes, as opposed to what would you use 193 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 2: on a hard surface such as her night table. 194 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 8: Traditional collection on most surfaces would be swabbing of the 195 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 8: surface to collect DNA to generate a profile. 196 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: Forty one minutes in the home. 197 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 2: Joining us in addition to Dave mac Mike Gould, and 198 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: Misty Gillis is Scott Aiker, former FBI cast member, former 199 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: homicide with Norfolk, Virginia Police Department, now at Precision Cellular 200 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 2: Analysis PCA experts dot Com. 201 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 3: Skye thank you for being with us. 202 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 2: It's very wrenching to think Nancy Guthrie sound asleep getting yanked. 203 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 3: Out of her bed at two o'clock in the morning. 204 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 2: That gives me a lot of ideas about the profile 205 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 2: of the defendant. 206 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 7: I agree. When Savannah said yesterday that her mother was 207 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 7: taken from the bed, that really just kind of lit 208 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 7: up in my head. Is that, Wow, she didn't answer 209 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 7: the door. That was a targeted situation where they actually 210 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 7: went to her room. Probably had to get her dressed 211 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 7: if they were going to take her out. She's probably 212 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 7: in a nightgown. So what are they doing there for 213 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 7: that forty one minutes? That's a lot of time. I mean, 214 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 7: you're dealing with an elderly lady. Obviously, they're obviously leaving 215 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 7: more DNA in there the law longer they're staying in 216 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 7: the house. But from my aspect, forty one minutes in 217 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 7: that area, that helps me narrow down the amount of 218 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 7: phones that are being used by the cell phone towers 219 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 7: in the area. Now I'm not just looking for it 220 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 7: maybe a car that drove through in five minutes. I'm 221 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 7: looking for at bone that was there for thirty forty 222 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 7: minutes an hour. If they were there ahead of time, 223 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 7: that helps me narrow down the phones that I'm going 224 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 7: to concentrate on and try to identify. 225 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: Okay, let me see Scott Ker Scott. 226 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,719 Speaker 2: Not everyone is familiar with the cellular it nowly it's 227 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 2: a survey team. 228 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: I'd heard of it, but I first. 229 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: Learned a lot about it during the Alex Murdock double 230 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: murder trial. Remember when the Secret Service guy had to 231 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: come down about craiking open one of the cell phones 232 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 2: that said CASS has been responsible for getting obtaining a 233 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 2: lot of information. In this case you were talking about, 234 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: You're not looking for a phone that was just circling 235 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: the area, maybe making a delivery or driving home late 236 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: at night. You're looking for a phone that was in 237 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: the area for those forty one minutes. 238 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 3: What exactly would you be looking for. 239 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 7: Well, we know all the phones, if the personal phones 240 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 7: and phones in cars, they could touch the network constantly, 241 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 7: either through data sessions or phone calls or text messages. 242 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 7: So we can look at this tower dump. That's basically 243 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 7: asking the phone companies, all three of the major ones, 244 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 7: to give us all the phones that use the towers 245 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 7: that surround Nancy Guthrie's residence for a certain amount of 246 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 7: time frame and then what they might say two hours 247 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 7: before and after the crime. Now we've got thousands of 248 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 7: phones that were in that tower dump, and we have 249 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 7: to figure out how to narrow them down. That might 250 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 7: be the residents that live there. That makes sense, they 251 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 7: were there all night. The ones that came in quickly 252 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 7: and left might have been a delivery man. 253 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 4: The ones. 254 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 7: Now we can narrow it down a little bit further 255 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 7: because we're thinking that the suspects were there for at 256 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 7: least forty forty five minutes, maybe even longer based on them, 257 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 7: you know, parking and coming up to the house. So 258 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 7: that helps us narrow down the phones and vehicles and 259 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 7: other devices, so we can hopefully identify a suspect. 260 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 5: Hi there, coming on to say, it is day twenty 261 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 5: four since our mom was taken in the dark of 262 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 5: night from her bed, and every hour and minute and 263 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 5: second and every long night has been agony since then, 264 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 5: of worrying about her, and fearing for her, and aching 265 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 5: for her, and most of all just missing her. 266 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 3: Is missing her. 267 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 5: We know that millions of you have been praying. So 268 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 5: many people have been praying of every faith and no 269 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 5: faith at all, praying for her return, and we feel 270 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 5: those prayers. Please keep praying without ceasing. We still believe, 271 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 5: we still believe in a miracle, We still believe that 272 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 5: she can come home. Hope against hope. As my sister says, 273 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 5: we are blowing on the embers of hope. 274 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 3: We also know that. 275 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 5: She may be lost, She may already be gone. She 276 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 5: may have already gone home to the Lord that she 277 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 5: loves and is dancing in heaven with her mom and 278 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 5: her dad and with her beloved brother Peers, and with 279 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 5: our daddy. And if this is what is to be, 280 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 5: then we will accept it. But we need to know 281 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 5: where she is. We need her to come home. For 282 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 5: that reason, we are offering a family reward of up 283 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 5: to one million dollars for any information that leads us 284 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 5: to her recovery. All of the information about this reward 285 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 5: and the details is in the cash below. You can 286 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 5: call the one eight hundred tip line. You can be 287 00:17:52,960 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 5: anonymous if you want. Someone out there knows something that 288 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: can bring her home. Somebody knows. We are begging you 289 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 5: to please come forward. Now. We also know that we 290 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,360 Speaker 5: are not alone in our loss. We know there are 291 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 5: millions of families that have suffered with this kind of uncertainty, 292 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 5: and for that reason, today we also are donating five 293 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars to the National Center for Missing and 294 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 5: Exploited Children for their work and helping families who are 295 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 5: coping with loss and actively looking for those who are lost. 296 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 5: We are hoping that the attention that has been given 297 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 5: to our mom and our family will extend to all 298 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 5: the families like ours who are in need and need 299 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 5: prayers and need support. So please, if you hear this message, 300 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 5: if you've been waiting and you haven't been sure, let 301 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 5: this be your sign to please come forward, tell what 302 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 5: you know, and help us bring our beloved mom home 303 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 5: so that we can either celebrate a glorious, miraculous homecoming 304 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:27,679 Speaker 5: or celebrate the beautiful, brave, and courageous and noble life 305 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 5: that she has lived. 306 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 3: Please be the. 307 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 5: Light in the dark. 308 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 3: Thank you. 309 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 2: Savanna Guthrie's mother, Nancy Guthrie, missing. 310 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 5: Fearing for her, baking for her, and most of all, 311 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 5: just missing her. 312 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: Missing her. 313 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 2: That's almost all we have is the video of the 314 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 2: porch guy. But I guarantee you it's not all there is. 315 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 3: Is there more video? 316 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 2: Is it being scratched right now? We believe it is 317 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: straight back out to Scott, like her joining us from 318 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: Precision Cellular Analysis. 319 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 3: Scott, you were talking about not. 320 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: Just snagging cell phones in the area, but now you're 321 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 2: looking for a cell phone that was in her residence 322 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: for forty one minutes, unlike a smart watch. And we've 323 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: saw evidence of this in the Barry Morphew trial. His 324 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 2: wife Susanne Morphew was murdered and her bone, her remains 325 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: thrown in a so called burial ground boneyard in a 326 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: remote area. But according to the prosecution in that case 327 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 2: is yet to be proven. He's innocent ntil proven guilty. 328 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 2: They could track and I've seen other cases like this. 329 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: They could track movements of victim or defendant by their 330 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: smart watch and according to the prosecution in that case, 331 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 2: could see a chase ensuing in the home. 332 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: Before Susanne Morphew was killed. 333 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 2: Another case like that was Richard Debate, and he insisted 334 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: to police that armed intruders entered his home, tied him up, 335 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: murdered his wife, and he miraculously survived. There was no theft, 336 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: there was no rape. But when police tested the evidence 337 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 2: scientifically the smart watch, it showed his wife up walking 338 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: around the house long after he told police she had 339 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: been shot dead long after and there have been many 340 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: other cases. 341 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: Has just two examples. 342 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: That you can find evidence of to prove what happened 343 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 2: with Nancy Guthrie what I'm talking about. We don't know 344 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: if she had on a smart watch, And we don't 345 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 2: know if the purp had on a smart watch, one 346 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 2: of the purps. Because I'm convinced there's an accomplice. I 347 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 2: also am convinced that the purps were wearing watches. We 348 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: know they had walkie talkies because there's one jutting out 349 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 2: of the porch guy's pocket there. 350 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: You go, Thank you that right, yes, thank you. When 351 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 3: we blow that up, it's a walkie talkie. 352 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,479 Speaker 2: But don't you know if they outfitted themselves in this manner, 353 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,439 Speaker 2: look at that. Yes, if they outfitted themselves in this manner, 354 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 2: and they had the walkie talkies, and they came with 355 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 2: the bite light, and they came with the backpack stuffed 356 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: to the gills, they were probably keeping the. 357 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,439 Speaker 3: Time right now. 358 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 2: I guarantee you they ain't using a TIMEX. So if 359 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 2: they had a smart watch, help me out icher. 360 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 3: Throw me a bone here? What can I do with 361 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 3: a smart watch? 362 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 7: We've seen that in numerous cases smart watches fitbits. Any 363 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 7: of those devices can help investigators narrow down times, all 364 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,239 Speaker 7: of locational information. If it has a cellular connection. Like 365 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 7: my watch is a smart watch, an Apple Watch, it 366 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 7: also has its own cellular connections. So that's a whole 367 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 7: other device that the investigators from CASTS can track via 368 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 7: the tower dumps. Now there are devices that just have 369 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 7: Wi Fi and my watch didn't have cellular. Google can 370 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 7: track that based on Wi Fi connections in the area. 371 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 7: So there's a lot of different ways for us to 372 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 7: get additional data. But it's a vast amount of stuff 373 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 7: to deal with, so it has to be narrowed down 374 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 7: and that takes time. 375 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: Okay. 376 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 2: See when you just throw at a bomb like that, 377 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: you think I'm not going to follow up on that. 378 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: That's why we have something called re cross examination. Okay, Scott. 379 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 2: Remember we're mere mortals. We don't work at precisions cellular analysis. 380 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 2: We weren't on CAST, we didn't found the Cellular Analysis 381 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 2: Survey team like you did. So you got to slow 382 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 2: it down. Slow down, Nelly, I need to hear everything 383 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 2: you just said. Just be glad you're not a medical examiner. 384 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 2: In one of my cases, they would hide under their 385 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 2: desk when they saw my beat up Honda pulling up. 386 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 2: I need to understand what you just said. Now, First 387 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: of all. Can a smart watch be tracked as easily 388 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 2: as a cell phone or is it a whole different animal. 389 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 7: If it has cellular connection like my watch does, it 390 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 7: has its own cell phone in it, it can be 391 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 7: tracked just like a cell phone. 392 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: Well, are there smart watches that don't have cell connections? 393 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 7: Yes, there's a lot of them that just have a 394 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 7: Bluetooth connection to your phone. 395 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 2: Well, if they just to have a Bluetooth connection to 396 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 2: your phone, can that be tracked? 397 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 7: It's tougher. If it's part of the phone and connection 398 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 7: to the phone via Bluetooth, and it's logged into your 399 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 7: account like a Google account as a device, then Google can, 400 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 7: if you give Google permission, provide locational information on that device. 401 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, I'm trying to make sense 402 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 2: of what you're saying. You know, I can get a 403 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: ton of evidence, but it's got to be marshaled. It 404 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: has to make sense before you can use it. It's 405 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 2: like you dump a big bag of clay that's nothing 406 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 2: until I molded and work with it and understand what 407 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: the evidence is so I can use it to prove something. 408 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 2: So you're telling me if you've got a smart watch 409 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 2: that is cellular you know, like people can send messages 410 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 2: and so forth from their self from their. 411 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 3: Watch that can be tracked like a cell phone. Is 412 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 3: that correct? 413 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,479 Speaker 7: That is correct, just like a cell phone, Just like 414 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 7: a cell phone. 415 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 2: When cast is looking and trying to get the data 416 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 2: dump of all the cell phones in the area, how 417 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 2: does that show up as opposed to a cell phone. 418 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 7: Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference in the data 419 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 7: that we get from the phone company. There are some 420 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 7: codes in the records from the phone company that kind 421 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 7: of help us figure out if this phone number or 422 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 7: this device ID is a phone, or a watch or 423 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 7: a car. Because you remember, we're dealing with cars that 424 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 7: have cell phones in them too, embedded into the body 425 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 7: of the vehicle. So we have to kind of fold 426 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 7: that data into and sort it based on different ideas 427 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 7: of all right, this is a vehicle, this is a car, 428 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 7: this is a phone, this is an iPad, And then 429 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 7: we kind of try to narrow it down basis on 430 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 7: time frames like we were talking about. 431 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 2: Okay, so, but the reality is, Scott Ker, your set 432 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 2: telling me is very hard when they're going through the 433 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: data dump to tell if it's a cell phone, a 434 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: Wi Fi car, like you connect, which comes in a 435 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 2: lot of cars like my beat up Chryslo meniavan hasn't. 436 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 3: Cell phone car smart watch. 437 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 2: But the reality is is it doesn't matter which one 438 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 2: it is. If it's there at the time she's kidnapped, 439 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: for those critical forty one minutes they're on it, then 440 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 2: they can sort out what it is. Okay, got it, 441 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 2: So it can be tracked if it's connected to sell 442 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 2: or it can be tracked if it's Bluetooth connection to 443 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 2: a phone logged into an account okay. 444 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 7: And Wi Fi and Wi Fi. 445 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 2: Earlier, Scott I asked you if bluetooth use such as 446 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 2: her pacemaker, could be picked up historically. 447 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 3: In other words, does it have to be in the area. 448 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: At that moment when the blue fly signal sniffer flies through, 449 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 2: or can you retrace the bluetooth activity like we do 450 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: a cell phone. 451 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: Like I know, this is getting very. 452 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: Technical and my wording is from is vernacular from a layperson, 453 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 2: But what I'm trying to say is if the smart 454 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: watch the perp was wearing was connected to Bluetooth at 455 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 2: the time of the kidnapping, can you go back and 456 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 2: see that or can you only identify Bluetooth activity if 457 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 2: it's happening at the time you're searching. 458 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 7: All right, You've got several different questions there, so let 459 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 7: me try to cut that down a little bit. Bluetooth 460 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 7: is a connection between two devices, right, and there are 461 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 7: Bluetooth receivers in places like airports, subways, stuff like that, 462 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 7: and some of that can be captured historically if it's locked. 463 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 7: But that's not going to be the situation here. When 464 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 7: we're dealing with trying to find Nancy Guthrie's pacemaker. We 465 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 7: can't see anything historical. We're just out there searching with 466 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 7: our Bluetooth sniffer scanner trying to see if we can 467 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 7: pick up the you know, the remissions from that pacemaker 468 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 7: every couple of seconds that it does. 469 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 5: That. 470 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 2: By the way, guys, that video we were just showing 471 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: you with a signal sniffer, which is really high tech 472 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 2: bluefly technology is from our friends. 473 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: At Fox News. 474 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: This is important and I want to say it correctly, Scott, 475 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 2: so I'll have to have you repeat it correctly for me. 476 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: If the was wearing a smart watch I watched it 477 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 2: wasn't sell but was Bluetooth can cast FBI go back 478 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: and identify it if it happened at the time of 479 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 2: the kidnap. 480 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 7: That is a possibility. And let me explain why Google 481 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 7: tracks devices related to your account, either via Wi Fi, cellular, Bluetooth, 482 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 7: or GPS. So if it's connected to his service, and 483 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 7: you know, in this case, cast would go to Google 484 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 7: and say, give us all devices in and around Nancy 485 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 7: Guthrie's residence during this timeframe, and that's all devices, and 486 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,239 Speaker 7: that they Some of those devices could be phones, some 487 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 7: of those could be watches, some of those could be 488 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 7: you know, iPads with Wi Fi stuff like that. So 489 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 7: there's a possibility, but there's a lot of limitations to it. 490 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: Is that a yes or a no? 491 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 4: That's a maybe? 492 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 2: Okay, I was gonna give you that alternative, but I 493 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: didn't want that alternative. I wanted to yes, but I 494 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 2: didn't get it. So I'm gonna work with what I've got. 495 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: Can I Can I remind you of something, Scott Iiker, 496 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: Do you know the name Lacan Riley, the nursing student 497 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: that went jogging at University of Georgia campus. 498 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 3: And she was attacked and assaulted and murdered. 499 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was wondering if you remember that she had 500 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 2: a garment garman smart watch on and that smart watch 501 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 2: revealed her struggle to live, and it even showed when 502 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: Lacan's heart stopped beating. 503 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 3: So I remember or is it sel? 504 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 7: It can be either. 505 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 4: Oh no, that was. 506 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: You're not helping me at all, iekr Uh. 507 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 7: It could be seular or Bluetooth and Wi Fi. But 508 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 7: that you know that that garment information was very important 509 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 7: in that case because it showed her walking, gave her 510 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 7: a location, gave her heartbeat. Even when the paramedics came 511 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 7: by later and tried to revive her, they got they 512 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 7: could reflect the garment reflected them doing CPR on her. 513 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 7: Very important information for sir. 514 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: And you've got a good memory iker, you know you 515 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 2: ought to be with the FBI. 516 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: Man. 517 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 2: My point is, guys, this is how you prepare for 518 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: a trial, or at least how I prepared for a trial. 519 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: This is what you do before you put the witness 520 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: on the stand. You hash out whatever probit of information 521 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: they have. And what I've gotten from is that if 522 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 2: the purpse and I guarantee you, they were synchronizing guarantee 523 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: you with their walkie talkies and their ski masks and 524 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 2: their devices that they brought with them, crammed into their backpack. 525 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 2: They were all ready right, I guarantee you they were synchronizing. 526 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 2: If they were, and I have reason to believe they were, 527 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 2: they were wearing smart watches. And now Icher, who trust 528 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 2: me knows what he's talking about, is telling me that 529 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 2: those smart watches can be tracked just like sell phones, 530 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 2: provided they have cellular and even if they're only Bluetooth, 531 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 2: there's a chance. 532 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 3: At that as well. What happened in that critical forty 533 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 3: one minutes. 534 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,080 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 535 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 5: Coming on to say, it is day twenty four since 536 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 5: our mom was taken in the dark of night from 537 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:14,280 Speaker 5: her bed. 538 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: We are learning a lot tonight about the search for 539 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie. We are learning that volunteer searches are going 540 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 2: further toward Mexico. Also straight out to Dave Matt, Crime 541 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 2: Story's investigative reporter, we know that the backpack that was 542 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 2: found by a couple has been ruled out. 543 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 6: Why it didn't fit any of the descriptions that were 544 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 6: seen on the video on the porch, and they were 545 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 6: able to investigators were able to rule it out very quickly. 546 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 6: It was not even the right brand, not the right color. 547 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,360 Speaker 6: Nothing matched up with what they were actually looking for. 548 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 2: Dave mac What I understand is after reviewing the bag 549 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: and what was inside the bag, it was determined not 550 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 2: to be a viable lead. We find out the bag 551 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:10,359 Speaker 2: had been outside in the elements for much longer than 552 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 2: three weeks. It also contained identification of a minor inside. 553 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 3: I don't know, hello, kitty stuff. I don't know what 554 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:22,479 Speaker 3: it could have been in. 555 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 2: There, but you see the backpack that the front porch 556 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:35,240 Speaker 2: guy is wearing is seemingly new, and what they found 557 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 2: had been out in the elements for quite some time. 558 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 2: To Mike Gould joining US, former Nasau County lieutenant, founding 559 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: member of the New York Police Department K nine unit 560 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: who has led multiple homicide investigations. Again, Mike, thank you 561 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: for being with us tonight. How do you look at 562 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 2: a backpack and determined it's been out there longer than 563 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 2: three weeks? 564 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,359 Speaker 4: Right, So, environment conditions will predict what a piece of 565 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 4: clothing or an article of evidence should look like three 566 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 4: weeks after. So if it looks like it's pristine, we 567 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 4: can kind of guess, Right, if you see a piece 568 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 4: of clothing or backpack that's been sitting around for a 569 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 4: year or two, it's going to be different than one 570 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,959 Speaker 4: that has been out there for two or three weeks. 571 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 4: Two or three weeks, it should be in pretty good condition. 572 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 4: You know, again, all of what we're talking about is 573 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 4: based on environmental conditions, heat rain. All of these things 574 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 4: affect the durability of evidence. 575 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: You have trained and led K nine units. You founded 576 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 2: the NYPD K nine unit. 577 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:39,919 Speaker 3: For Pete's sake. 578 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 2: I recall in the Lacy Peterson case, Mike, that one 579 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 2: dog tracked Lacey sent from Modesto to the San Francisco 580 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 2: Bay Marina. Tell me how the canines should have been 581 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: used in Nancy Guthrie's case. 582 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. So what we don't realize is properly trained, 583 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 4: properly calibrated dogs. Police dogs are scientific instruments admissible in court. 584 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 4: Polyographs are not. But dogs are admissible as scientific instruments 585 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 4: if they are, as I said, properly calibrated and trained. 586 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 9: Unfortunately, US humans don't understand how a dog can detect 587 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 9: your remote control hidden under the couch pillows. 588 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 4: We don't understand it because we use our eyes and ears. 589 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 4: So if we have amplified sound, we know what amplified 590 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 4: sounds like. We know if we look in a telescope, 591 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 4: we can see stars that are undetectable by our normal vision. 592 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 4: But there is not one There is not one scientific 593 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 4: instrument available today, and I've been saying this for forty years, Nancy, 594 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 4: that can duplicate the abilities, the older detection abilities of 595 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 4: a properly trained dog. And that's of course. Finding evidence 596 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 4: is what dogs do. Finding human remains is what cadaver 597 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 4: dogs and human remain detection dogs, that's what they do. 598 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 4: DNA experts identify, dogs find DNA experts identify. 599 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 3: So what should they have done when they got to 600 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 3: the Nancy Guthrie. 601 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 4: Saying, and any investigation I've been involved with, dogs are 602 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 4: the primary evidence recovery tool. Even as you see now 603 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,720 Speaker 4: people are walking through volunteers or looking with their eyes. 604 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 4: You can't detect invisible things that are invisible. So dogs, obviously, 605 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 4: my biased opinion, should have been all over the perimeter. 606 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 4: Maybe not so much inside the house unless they were 607 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 4: looking specifically for human remains that may have been hidden there. 608 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,279 Speaker 9: But they should be all around the perimeter to this day, 609 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 9: and as the dust settles in this case, it's going 610 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 9: to be my prediction that dogs are going to contribute 611 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 9: to finding further evidence as time goes by, because that is, 612 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 9: as I said, their specialty in odors. 613 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 4: So to answer your question, dogs should be all over that. 614 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 4: All dogs are specialists in detecting odorless substances, nar cottage dogs, 615 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 4: explosive dogs, cadavi dogs. It never ends. We can detect 616 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 4: cancer and human bodies. We can detect insects in your house, 617 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 4: so it never ends. This question is what dog? What instrument? 618 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 4: As I say, scientific instrument, that's to me what a 619 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 4: dog is? Which scientific instrument are you deploying? So initially, 620 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,320 Speaker 4: as I said, dogs should be searching for hot evidence. 621 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 9: It's not Nancy Guthrie's odor they're trailing in this case, 622 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 9: it's just any hot evidence. Even now, dogs in the 623 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,360 Speaker 9: desert will detect anomalies in the desert that then require 624 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 9: corroboration from law enforcement. I've worked nobody homicide cases, so 625 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 9: you can't make the presumption that a dead body was 626 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 9: in Nancy Grace's trunk without some type of corroborating evidence 627 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 9: i e. 628 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 4: DNA, hair tissue, some something else. So dogs, again, they're 629 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 4: incredible scientific tools, but they have to be utilized and 630 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 4: deployed properly and law enforcement has to understand it. Very frankly, 631 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 4: law enforcement doesn't clearly understand the value of dogs just 632 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 4: because it's like a magician doing a trick. 633 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 9: So we can't fathom how could a dog smell a 634 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 9: pot of soup cooking in your kitchen and detect the ingredients, 635 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 9: break down. 636 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 4: Each individual ingredients, carrots, onions. We can't fathom that. So 637 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 4: therefore we don't understand the capabilities of dogs. And this 638 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,320 Speaker 4: has been my frustration for as I said, forty years 639 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 4: I used to train dogs to find remote control or 640 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 4: portable phones for a retailer here in New York that 641 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,800 Speaker 4: was getting ripped off by employees stealing phones portable phones. 642 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,839 Speaker 4: Once I trained the dog to find lithium batteries, then 643 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 4: the dog once they isolate the odor, once science isolates 644 00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,919 Speaker 4: the odor, which they do incredibly now more than ever, 645 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 4: these odors, you train the dog to find this isolated odor, well, 646 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 4: volatile organic compounds. Each everything has a signature, every odor, 647 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 4: every pen in your possession, your microphone, you're clothing, everybody 648 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 4: has a scent signature. And once a dog that is isolated, 649 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 4: they can't be beat. So again, yeah, this is my thing, 650 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,439 Speaker 4: but again it's frustrating when I see twenty people law 651 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 4: enforcement and volunteers trampling through a crime scene. They can't 652 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 4: detect anything. You could be stepping on valuable evidence, a 653 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 4: cigarette butt, almost anything can be valuable when it's corroborated. 654 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 2: So, Mike, are you telling me that you don't get 655 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,280 Speaker 2: the dog out of the vehicle and give him For instance, 656 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's shirt that she was wearing the night before 657 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,320 Speaker 2: and they smell it and they take off running. 658 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 3: That's not real. 659 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 4: No, it is absolutely real, And that's called a trailing dog. 660 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 4: As going back to my point, they're specialists so trailing dogs, 661 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 4: and they're hard to train. They're not even available that much. 662 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 4: It's a very specific thing. 663 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 10: But in the there's been evidence of dogs trailing odor 664 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 10: skin cells, microscopic skill skin cells, vapor cells, so they can. 665 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,360 Speaker 10: But it's probably not likely that in this case a 666 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 10: trailing dog would be effective in my estimation, why, I'm 667 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 10: not sure we're making an assumption that she was taken 668 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 10: in a car number one, they would have been valuable 669 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 10: tracking outside almost immediately because very frankly, when burglars or criminals, 670 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 10: they don't go far. 671 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,200 Speaker 4: They usually circle around. They're in the backyard. 672 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 10: I've stepped on burglars in the middle of the night, 673 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 10: literally stepped on them because it's in the dark with 674 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:51,560 Speaker 10: a flashlight. 675 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:52,879 Speaker 4: They're in the dark, they. 676 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 10: Have dark clothing on, and my dog thought it biting 677 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,359 Speaker 10: at my shoes and I got pissed off at them 678 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,320 Speaker 10: and wanted to correct them. Guess what I was standing 679 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 10: on the bad guy within one hundred yards of the 680 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 10: crime scene. 681 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 2: Well, we know Nancy Guthrie was not left at the 682 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 2: crime scene. We know she's nowhere around the home, so 683 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 2: she had to be transported away. Can dogs follow her 684 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 2: scent even if she's in a vehicle providing law enforcement? 685 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,320 Speaker 3: Has it contaminated the scene so badly? 686 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 4: Again, I don't want it's possible. 687 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 9: But the more you get to these kind of renten 688 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 9: ten scenarios, lastly finding Timmy in the well, the less 689 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 9: reliable this evidence is. 690 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 4: So I completely agree with you that she's not there. 691 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 4: But if law enforcement, which they should be doing a 692 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,640 Speaker 4: concentric circle starting from the blood droplets on the porch, 693 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 4: which I'm sure they did, but they should be circling outward, outward, outward, outward, outward, 694 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 4: till the point that that whole area was inspected, in 695 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 4: my opinion, with a dog. Because humans, it's invaluable they're 696 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 4: doing the right thing. They're walking around looking what are 697 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 4: they looking for. They're not looking for evidence because they 698 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,680 Speaker 4: don't know what evidence will look like. That's what happened 699 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 4: with the glove, you know, the glove that we spent 700 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 4: a few days speculating that it looked like the glove 701 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 4: on the video. It was found two miles away. I 702 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 4: never gave any credence to the fact that that was 703 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,880 Speaker 4: going to be. Of course, all of these things have 704 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 4: to be pursued, Every lead has to be pursued without 705 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 4: a doubt. But some are more credible than others, and that, frankly, 706 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,080 Speaker 4: to me, was never a credible piece of evidence, just 707 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 4: based on it looked like a glove. If you go 708 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 4: around my two miles from where I'm sitting right now, 709 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,480 Speaker 4: or two miles where you're sitting right now, you will 710 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,080 Speaker 4: find all. You go to a homeless encampment, you're going 711 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 4: to find gloves, backpack, shoes, clothing. So again I need 712 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 4: to stick with facts and not get drawn into rabbit hole. 713 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 2: Since Savannah Guthrie's latest play for information regarding her mother 714 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 2: was issued and her family, upping the reward, which is 715 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:07,280 Speaker 2: now at one million, two hundred and two thousand dollars. 716 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,840 Speaker 2: Tips are pouring in. If you know or think you 717 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,320 Speaker 2: know anything, you don't need a million dollars fine, plenty 718 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,879 Speaker 2: of people do. Please dial toll free eight hundred two 719 00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 2: two five five three two four repeat one eight hundred 720 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 2: two two five five three two four, Or if you 721 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 2: wish to remain anonymous, dial five to zero eight eight 722 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,319 Speaker 2: two seven four sixty three repeat five two zero eight 723 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 2: eight two seven four sixty three. Even if you remain anonymous, 724 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,880 Speaker 2: you will be able to get the million dollar reward. 725 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend