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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful boy, age two, vanishes from a family camping trip tonight.

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Speaker 1: Where is door? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Let's the address of your emergency.

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Speaker 4: I'm actually camping and lead work goes outside of lead work.

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Speaker 4: Uh huh my two year old son. We can't find them?

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Speaker 3: How long has he been missing?

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Speaker 4: About for an hour?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Are you by water? Yes?

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Speaker 4: Do you know which campground you're in? It's Stone Reservoir,

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Speaker 4: Timber Creek, Stone Reservoir, Yeah, for Timber Creek.

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Speaker 3: Hold on, we needs such and rescue.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine to one one call from

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Speaker 2: the camping area for a two year old little top boy. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: beautiful baby seemingly vanishes into thin air. Let's listen to

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Speaker 2: more of that nine to one one call.

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Speaker 3: What do we learn, Jessica? Jessica? Yeah, what's your son's name?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 3: What is he wearing?

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Speaker 4: He was wearing cowboy boot a blue like padma pants

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Speaker 4: as a panel jacket, and he's got show you blorn.

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Speaker 3: Here is your husband calling too?

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Speaker 4: Like all down where we were counting at and we

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Speaker 4: can't find her?

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Speaker 3: Mettle Okay, we need you to stay within cell service.

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Speaker 3: We've had people going on on the.

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Speaker 2: Way joining me an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 2: of what we know right now for us straight out

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Speaker 2: to Nate eighton, joining US news director East Idaho News

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Speaker 2: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Nate, listen to this.

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Speaker 5: Vernal Coons and girlfriend Jessica Mitchell lived together in Idaho

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Speaker 5: Falls with their two year old son Dior. On a whim,

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Speaker 5: Konts and Mitchell decide to take door camping outside Leodor.

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Speaker 5: Mitchell invites along her grandfather, Robert Walton, and a friend

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Speaker 5: of Walton's. The group arrives to Timber Creek campground after

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Speaker 5: dark and sleeps in the next morning. Finishing breakfast around

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Speaker 5: eleven am, Coots, Mitchell and Dior go into town for

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Speaker 5: gas and a few groceries, returning to camp about two

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Speaker 5: hours later.

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Speaker 2: And they leave door with grandpa, who's watching the child.

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Speaker 1: Listen to our friends East Idaho News.

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Speaker 6: Grandpa's watching the child, he tells me. He looks away momentarily.

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Speaker 6: When he looks back, he's gone, and he's assumed he's

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Speaker 6: gone over the bank right where Grandpa's sitting. He's within

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Speaker 6: twenty to thirty yards of the only roadway into the campground,

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Speaker 6: and absolutely no one was seen at that lower campground

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Speaker 6: coming or going.

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Speaker 2: When children are kidnapped, nobody ever sees anyone coming or going.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Dior. In addition to.

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Speaker 2: Nate Eon joining us from East Idaho News Dot Coffee

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Speaker 2: shot to fame during the whole Mom Laurie Valley case.

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Speaker 2: In addition to him is a very well known private investigator,

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Speaker 2: David Mashburn, director of investigations at Search for Me Foundation

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Speaker 2: and a former bounty hunter. I can tell you this,

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Speaker 2: he's been around the block once or twice. Nati, straight

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Speaker 2: out to you. Tell me about the terrain. Where do

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Speaker 2: your went missing?

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Speaker 7: Oh, Nancy, this is a very remote area. You have

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Speaker 7: to take a four wheel drive or an ATV to

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Speaker 7: get back there. When we went out there, you know,

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Speaker 7: it would have ruined our car if it was a

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Speaker 7: small car. It's down a very long, dusty road. There's

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Speaker 7: no cell phone service. There is a creek that runs

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Speaker 7: through that campground. There's a big hill near the campground.

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Speaker 7: There's a reservoir on the other side of the hill.

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Speaker 7: It is extremely remote. It would be very hard for

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Speaker 7: a little boy the age of Dior to get anywhere

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Speaker 7: really in cowboy boots that were bigger than his feet.

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Speaker 2: Door just two years old at the time he goes missing.

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Speaker 2: In addition to investigative reporter and news director Nate Eaton,

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Speaker 2: joining us now special guests David Marshburne, former bounty hunter

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Speaker 2: work for the family. He's a private investigator and director

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Speaker 2: at Search for Me Foundation.

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Speaker 1: David, thank you for being with us. Dave got a question.

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Speaker 2: I want to follow up on the terrain that Nate

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Speaker 2: Eaton was just describing, and before we go any further

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Speaker 2: about what Grandpa did or didn't do wrong. I've had

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Speaker 2: a lot of cases where a child is being watched

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Speaker 2: and in the twinkling of an eye, the child is gone.

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Speaker 2: But I want to talk about this terrain because the

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Speaker 2: way they're telling it, David and I believe Grandpa he's

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Speaker 2: watching the child, looks away momentarily, and he turns around.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how long that moment was.

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Speaker 2: It could have been one minute, it could have been

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds, it could have been thirty minutes. He looks

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Speaker 2: back and Doyor is gone. Now right where Grandpa's sitting.

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Speaker 2: And this is according to the share of Lynn Barrlmann.

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Speaker 1: We just heard talking he's just.

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Speaker 2: Twenty to thirty yards from the only roadway into the campground.

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Speaker 1: Is that right, David Marshburn.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, the terrain is very rough and you have a

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Speaker 8: lot of sage brush, and that's what makes it difficult

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Speaker 8: to move around out there, except for certain little areas

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Speaker 8: that are grassy and you know, just dirt, plain dirt.

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Speaker 2: Question, Dave Marshburn, you brought up something really interesting just

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Speaker 2: imagining this little this little taut in that sage brush.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned sagebrush specifically, why would that make it difficult

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Speaker 2: to move around in impede the search?

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Speaker 8: Well, sagebrush is sort of like a briary book bush

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Speaker 8: that has a lot of hard limbs on it. I

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Speaker 8: mean it just slight walking through a compact of bush.

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Speaker 8: It's just it's very difficult to maneuver around because they

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Speaker 8: all intertwine with one another. You can walk between them somewhat.

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Speaker 8: As an adult, you can stand above it and get

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Speaker 8: around it, but as a two and a half year old,

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Speaker 8: it would be hard to maneuver through it.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking through what you're saying, and you would know.

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Speaker 8: As an adult just make sure it like this going

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Speaker 8: through a cornfield. Basically, if you're a two and a

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Speaker 8: half year old going through sagebrush. It's like an adult

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Speaker 8: going through a cornfield.

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Speaker 2: Now, now I can understand what you're saying, David Marshburn.

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Speaker 1: It would be like me going through a corn maze.

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Speaker 2: Got him that he wouldn't be able to see anything.

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Speaker 2: And from where the grandpa was sitting, Dave Marshburn, how

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Speaker 2: far away was the sage brush?

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Speaker 1: Was it right there?

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Speaker 8: It was within fifteen twenty feet of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, listen to this.

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Speaker 9: By that time, it was almost two and he usually

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Speaker 9: takes his nap. We were just yeah, we said we're

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Speaker 9: going to go a little explore and he was going

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Speaker 9: to be good with grandpa.

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Speaker 1: By the campfire.

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Speaker 8: We were at more than probably.

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Speaker 9: Fifty fifty yards away in ten minutes. I've actually seen

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Speaker 9: there were some things down by a little minnos that

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Speaker 9: I thought he would just love. So when I come

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Speaker 9: back up to get him and I yelled over to Grandpa,

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Speaker 9: whereas you know, where's little Dior?

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Speaker 1: He immediately shocked. This is he came up to.

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Speaker 2: You, Dad and girlfriends speaking to East Idaho News.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's analyze that.

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Speaker 2: You know, Nate Eaton sadly Nate joining us from East Ida,

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Speaker 2: who news Sadly, when a child goes missing, you always

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Speaker 2: look at the family, and statistically, very often you're looking

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Speaker 2: in the right direction, but almost.

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Speaker 1: As many times it's not the family.

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Speaker 2: So I'm looking at them talking. I want to analyze

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Speaker 2: what they're saying, and that fits hand in glove with

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Speaker 2: what the grandpa was saying.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of what he said.

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Speaker 7: Well, he is insistent that they went to look at

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Speaker 7: the fish. They went to look at the minnows, and

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Speaker 7: when they got back, they thought that Dior was his grandpa.

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Speaker 7: Grandpa thought that Dior was with his parents, and that

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Speaker 7: when they came back, they said, where's door He's gone. Well,

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Speaker 7: they start to search around the campsite. They can't find him.

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Speaker 7: They search fifteen to twenty minutes. That he gets in

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Speaker 7: his truck. He goes to search further. That's when they

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Speaker 7: went down the way to call nine one one because

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Speaker 7: there was no cell phone reception.

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Speaker 10: Nancy.

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Speaker 7: When they came into talk with me, they brought Dior's

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Speaker 7: one of his little monkey toys. They brought his blanket.

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Speaker 7: They seemed very distraught, they seemed upset. They wanted to

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Speaker 7: know where their son was.

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Speaker 2: So Nate Eaton, you're analyzing, as am I every word

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Speaker 2: because every word counts.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to the County sheer from our friends

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Speaker 1: at East Idaho.

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Speaker 6: They supposedly thought they were turning their child over to

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Speaker 6: their grandfather, the child's great grandfather. They went down to

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Speaker 6: the creek, which is right next to the campground, and

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Speaker 6: within ten to fifteen minutes they go up to find

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Speaker 6: their child to show them some fish in the stream,

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Speaker 6: and he's nowhere to be found. Grandfather assumes he's gone

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Speaker 6: down to them because he was within their line of

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Speaker 6: sight and wasn't too far from the campground. They started

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Speaker 6: their initial search and eventually called nine one one when

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Speaker 6: they realized they couldn't find the child.

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Speaker 2: You know, Dave Marshburne again, you've been working on the case.

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure.

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Speaker 2: That what we're hearing jives with the topography, with the saying,

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Speaker 2: does it make sense what grandpa says, let's start with him.

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Speaker 8: I do not agree with that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what about the topography does not fit.

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Speaker 8: That scenari because it's not an edge you can just

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Speaker 8: fall off of if you walk to the edge of

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Speaker 8: the right. What the decline is to the creek, you

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Speaker 8: would hit something, that something would stop you before you

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Speaker 8: entered the creek.

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Speaker 1: Is there a way, you know?

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Speaker 2: I had a judge who was the oldest judge in

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Speaker 2: the Fulton County Courthouse and the wisest, I might add,

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Speaker 2: And one thing he told every.

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Speaker 1: Jury, and I know it by heart.

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Speaker 2: It is your duty, members of the jury, to make

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Speaker 2: all witnesses speak the truth and impune perjury on no one.

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Speaker 2: In other words, when various witnesses tell their story from

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Speaker 2: different angles and different lighting and different points of view,

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Speaker 2: I don't expect them to fit like a fingerprint. So

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Speaker 2: hearing what the grandpa is saying that he was watching

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Speaker 2: the boy from that location, he turned away, he says,

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Speaker 2: for a moment. It could be ten minutes. He turns back,

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Speaker 2: and the boy was gone. I don't mean he had

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Speaker 2: to go over a ridge and disappear where the grandpa's

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Speaker 2: sitting could do or have run off to play and

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Speaker 2: gotten out of the grandpa's vision.

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Speaker 8: Yes, he could have just disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that much I agree with you, David Marshboro. I

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Speaker 2: also agreed that there's not some kind of a ridge

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Speaker 2: like he falls off the end of the earth, and

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Speaker 2: you can't see him anymore, but I do believe that

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Speaker 2: door could have wandered off and be out of his vision,

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Speaker 2: his line of sight. And it's not the first time

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Speaker 2: it's happened.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 11: Cherla was camping with her family here in Moroe Steve Park.

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Speaker 11: Last evening. She went out on a bike ride. It

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Speaker 11: wasn't dark, it was right around dinner time, and did

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Speaker 11: a couple of loops with close friends she considers her cousins.

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Speaker 11: And then she decided after going around Troop Bay, she

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Speaker 11: said she's wanting to go around one more time by

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Speaker 11: her be that big girl, do it by herself. Literally

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Speaker 11: fifteen minutes later she hadn't come back yet, And that's

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Speaker 11: really when the nightmare begins.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we're talking about little Charlotte Cina. She was

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Speaker 2: with her family in remote camping area of State New

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Speaker 2: York and is riding her bike on a loop directly

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Speaker 2: in front of the parents and their relatives that are

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Speaker 2: all there for a big camp out and cookout, going

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Speaker 2: round and round and round and round.

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Speaker 1: With the other children.

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Speaker 2: And the reason I bring up Charlotte, David Marshburne is

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Speaker 2: because that loop that she was riding her bike right

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Speaker 2: there at the campsite with campers and tents around the

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Speaker 2: little loop.

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Speaker 1: She was riding a bike. If you look down.

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Speaker 2: That hill, there was a road and the kidnapper was

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Speaker 2: on that road. He'd been scoping out Charlotte and as

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Speaker 2: she rode her bike to the furthest edge of that loop,

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Speaker 2: he grabbed her.

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Speaker 1: They found her bike. She was found alive.

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Speaker 2: Several days later under a cupboard in a camper the

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Speaker 2: perp pad behind his mother's house she lived.

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Speaker 1: But it was just like that.

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Speaker 2: They were looking at her, they turned to the grill out,

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Speaker 2: they look back, she's gone.

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Speaker 1: It can happen just like that. Marshburn, I agree.

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Speaker 2: So back to the case in chief, it could have

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Speaker 2: happened that way here as well.

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Speaker 1: Do you agree or disagree, Nate Eaton.

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Speaker 10: I think it could have happened very well. Nancy.

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Speaker 7: This, like I said, it's a remote area. And the

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Speaker 7: one thing that we haven't talked about yet that you

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Speaker 7: might want to is.

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Speaker 10: Wild animals are in the area. There's bears, there's wolf dens.

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Speaker 7: There's also mines that are in the area that if

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Speaker 7: you're that are you know, hundreds of years old that

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Speaker 7: if you're walking around and you misstep you could fall

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Speaker 7: into a mine and never be found. So, yeah, the

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Speaker 7: terrain is not it's not one if you decide to,

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Speaker 7: you know, take a two year old out that they're

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Speaker 7: going to get very far.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Gray.

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Speaker 3: What's the address of your emergency?

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Speaker 4: I'm an every camping in lad Work, those outside of

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Speaker 4: ladwor Uh huh my three year old son. We can't

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Speaker 4: find him.

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Speaker 3: How long has he been missing?

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Speaker 4: About an hour?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Are you by water?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what's campground you're in?

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Speaker 10: Uh?

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Speaker 4: It's Stone Reservoir, Timber Creek, Stone Reservoir, Yeah, or Timber Creek.

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Speaker 4: Hold on.

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Speaker 3: We made search and rescue.

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Speaker 12: Both lem High and Bonneville County Sheriffs, alongside hundreds of

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Speaker 12: volunteers search the Timber Creek campground for days looking for

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Speaker 12: any sign of the yor dive team spend hours come

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Speaker 12: the creek, running along the campsite and Stone reservoir, a

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Speaker 12: shallow body of water feeding the creek foot searchers spread

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Speaker 12: out over a three mile radius. He been checking animal

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Speaker 12: dens for any signs of diorg joining us.

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Speaker 2: Nate Eaton from Eastidaho News dot Com News director Nate

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Speaker 2: tell me about the immediate search. I need to know A.

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Speaker 1: Who was searching? B.

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Speaker 2: How long did it take to get searchers in c

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Speaker 2: Had the family already started searching?

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Speaker 1: And what were their efforts? Can you describe that.

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Speaker 10: The family has started to search Nancy on foot?

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Speaker 7: And also remember that there were only like four of

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Speaker 7: them out there with Dior, so it was the four

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Speaker 7: of them parents were searching, Vernal says. The dad says,

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Speaker 7: he hopped in his truck and started to search.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: hopped in his truck. How can you hop in the

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Speaker 2: truck if you can only get up there in a ATV, Well,

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Speaker 2: you can get up.

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Speaker 7: There in a truck if it's a four wheel drive.

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Speaker 7: So his truck was there on the site, and so

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Speaker 7: he tells us that he immediately did a search around

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Speaker 7: the campsite, then got in this trunck, did a search there,

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Speaker 7: then drove down the path to call nine to one one.

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Speaker 7: It takes some time to get up there, so the

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Speaker 7: sheriff's office responded before a small search and rescue crew responded,

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Speaker 7: and within twenty four to forty eight hours, you had

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Speaker 7: people on horseback, You had people on ATVs. You had

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Speaker 7: drones in the air, some helicopters were brought in from

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Speaker 7: nearby Montana to search the area. And I would say

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Speaker 7: that first week or so they did a search out there,

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Speaker 7: and what they were doing is to mark off areas

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Speaker 7: they had been They were tying pink ribbons around trees

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Speaker 7: to let other searchers know that that specific area had

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Speaker 7: been searched.

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Speaker 10: But this is a vast, remote area, Nancy. I mean

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Speaker 10: it would.

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Speaker 7: Take thousands and thousands of people who knows how long

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Speaker 7: to cover every single square foot of.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, Nate Eton. In my

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Speaker 1: mind your bass ackwards.

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Speaker 2: It may be thousands and thousands of acres.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I can't argue.

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Speaker 2: With the map, but a little two year old boy

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Speaker 2: wearing cowboy boots almost as tall as him, he could

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Speaker 2: not have gotten.

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Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of acres away. I don't need to

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Speaker 1: search thousands and thousands of acres.

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Speaker 2: I need to search that immediate area and then start

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Speaker 2: moving out.

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Speaker 1: David Marshburn, how did they do the search?

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Speaker 8: From what I'm understanding, they focused their area on the

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Speaker 8: creek and they started up where the parents said. They

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Speaker 8: stated they were at to the bottom where you can

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Speaker 8: cross over with a vehicle, and that's what they concentrated

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Speaker 8: mostly on for three to four days.

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Speaker 2: So they started mostly in Wait, just give me the

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Speaker 2: parameters one more time, David.

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Speaker 8: Within one hundred feet from the campsite is how they started.

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Speaker 8: And they started in the creek from the top down

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Speaker 8: to the bottom. I think the farthest they were was

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Speaker 8: around three hundred feet to where the creek crosses, where

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Speaker 8: the road creek crosses over the creek.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question, David or Nate, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to bring in Dr Gorniat, doctor Jeff Kalashewski,

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Speaker 2: and Pendry Trammel in just one moment.

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Speaker 1: But could a two year.

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Speaker 2: Old boy wearing those boots have crossed that creek?

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Speaker 1: What do you think?

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Speaker 8: David Marshburn Absolutely not, There's no way, Okay, I could

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Speaker 8: have got within one hundred feet from that campsite, just

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Speaker 8: on flat ground.

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Speaker 1: And Nate Eaton I agree with Marshburn.

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Speaker 2: If he had made it to the creek, I don't

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Speaker 2: know that he would have gotten in the water and

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Speaker 2: tried to cross it in cowboy boots. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if the creek was so deep that was impossible, and

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Speaker 2: if he had, we would have evidence of him doing that.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree with that, Nate.

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Speaker 10: Eaton, Absolutely, Yeah, I don't think he could have made

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Speaker 10: it to the creek.

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Speaker 7: If had he made it somehow miraculously to the creek,

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Speaker 7: the creek would have stopped him. He could not have

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Speaker 7: crossed it. And then, you know the part of the

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Speaker 7: creek that I've been to, there's a little hill right

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Speaker 7: past the creek. He then have to go uphill. And remember,

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Speaker 7: they weren't just cowboy boots, Nancy. They were cowboy boots

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Speaker 7: that were one or two sizes bigger than his feet.

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Speaker 7: You know how it is to walk in shoes that

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Speaker 7: are bigger than your feet, especially as a kid. You're

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Speaker 7: kind of clumping along. So it's not like they were

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Speaker 7: tight and attached to his feet. But there's been no

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Speaker 7: sign of those boots had he made it to the creek,

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Speaker 7: there's been no signs of his clothing, there's been no

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Speaker 7: signs of him.

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Speaker 2: And if he had made it to the creek and

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Speaker 2: across the creek, we would absolutely have evidence on the

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Speaker 2: other side.

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Speaker 1: Of the creek. Now, this is what I want to know.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned a bridge going over the creek and a

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Speaker 2: roadway could do yor have been seen from the road

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Speaker 2: or the bridge.

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Speaker 1: What about it, Dave Marshburne.

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Speaker 8: Well, what it is. It's a creek that you drive

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Speaker 8: over the creek, into the creek and up on the

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Speaker 8: other side, so it's not like there's a bridge or

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Speaker 8: stepping stones, and the water, the water moving so quickly

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Speaker 8: would sweep the child off his feet. It would almost

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Speaker 8: sweep a grown man off his feet. So it's only

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Speaker 8: like a foot deep, but it's still moving swiftly the

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Speaker 8: whole time during the year, so there's no way the

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Speaker 8: child could have crossed the creek without being swept into

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Speaker 8: the creek. And then you have buffers every twenty thirty

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Speaker 8: feet that where the creek has accumulated sticks and brush

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Speaker 8: and everything, so it would have stopped and someone if

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Speaker 8: he was in the creek, he would have been found

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Speaker 8: the first day.

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Speaker 1: I agree.

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Speaker 2: I agree, and that's why I was asking they eat

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Speaker 2: And how quickly the searchers got there. Would you say

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Speaker 2: they converged in an hour or less than two hours.

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Speaker 7: I would probably say two to three hours to be

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Speaker 7: more accurate. And you know, David's right, they did focus

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Speaker 7: on on that campground at.

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Speaker 10: First for the first several days and the.

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Speaker 7: Creek then they spread out to see it. If maybe

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Speaker 7: you know one of the theories was did a large

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Speaker 7: bird or a mountain lion pick Deure up and take

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Speaker 7: him elsewhere and drop him or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Did you just say a large bird that was.

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Speaker 7: One of the theories of a large eagle or something picking

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Speaker 7: him up, mountain lion there?

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Speaker 2: Guess what, maybe a little green man from mars Cane

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Speaker 2: camping that day and got him. A bird did not

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Speaker 2: get the boy. Okay, a mountain lion did not get

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Speaker 2: the boy. Am I crazy?

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Speaker 1: Or have you?

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Speaker 2: And I been working on the Suzanne Morphew case, right,

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Speaker 2: Suzanne Morphy was not attacked by a mountain lion? Why

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Speaker 2: because we have done studies on it and we know

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Speaker 2: there would be in disha left behind that there had

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Speaker 2: been some type of a tangle with a mountain lion.

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Speaker 2: There would be clothing, there would be blood, there would

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Speaker 2: be struggle, something Nate eat. After all this time, you

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Speaker 2: want to get up here on crime stories and say

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Speaker 2: a bird may have taken to.

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Speaker 7: Your saying I believe that, Nancy, I'm saying that was

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Speaker 7: one of the theories that was looked at that had

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Speaker 7: a bird or a large bird, eagle, something or an

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Speaker 7: animal picked him up then taken him somewhere else, or

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Speaker 7: even a person, if a person had made their way

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Speaker 7: into that campground, as remote as it is, and then

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Speaker 7: discarded him somewhere else. That's why the search then spread

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Speaker 7: out as far as they could go.

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Speaker 2: The search for two year old Yor is on joining

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Speaker 2: me an all star panel. But I want you to hear,

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Speaker 2: just to throw another wrench in the works, what happened.

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Speaker 6: Listen, while we were doing our grid search, someone came

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Speaker 6: in and wanted to deposit cremains of a loved one

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Speaker 6: at that site. And I'm assuming it's a favorite site

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Speaker 6: of their loved one. And without thinking, they deposited these cremaines,

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Speaker 6: not realizing they were in the middle of a crime scene.

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Speaker 2: And what it would do what someone comes onto the

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Speaker 2: search scene to spread ashes?

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Speaker 1: Did this really happen, Nate Eaton, It did happen.

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Speaker 7: It did happen someone unbeknownst that this child was missing.

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Speaker 7: It was a reservoir that their family member loved to

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Speaker 7: go to. They went up dumped the cremaines in the reservoir. That's,

445
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 7: of course, when the dog the dogs picked up a scent.

446
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,920
Speaker 7: There was human cremaines, and so we were up there

447
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 7: when they were searching that reservoir. It's divers for several

448
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 7: days were under the water, and that's when this person

449
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 7: that dumped the cremaines came forward and said, actually, the

450
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 7: dogs might be getting this sort of scent, and unfortunately

451
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 7: they never found do your in that reservoir?

452
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: So do your Based on everything Nate and David are

453
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: telling us, was not in the creek.

454
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: He was not in the reservoir.

455
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,880
Speaker 2: These people came upon a crime scene and throw out

456
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: human remains, cremated remains, which throws the search into chaos

457
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: with the scent dogs, but then another dead end listen.

458
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 13: Two days after Dior's disappearance, Lemi County Sheriffs receive a

459
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 13: tip from amm And, Idaho, some one hundred and twenty

460
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 13: miles away. The collar is a Walmart employee who sold

461
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 13: a man several boxes of diapers. The man was towing

462
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 13: along a blonde, hazel eyed todd boy. Police identify the

463
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 13: man's vehicle from surveillance footage, but when they track him down,

464
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 13: the toddler is not. Dior. Frustrated by the dead end,

465
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 13: Sheriff Lynn Bauerman comments, every two and a half year

466
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 13: old with blonde hair looks just like Dior.

467
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: Straight back to you, Nate, and then I'll bring in

468
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: David Penury, doctor Kilaschewski, and doctor Gorniak. Nate Aton a

469
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: false sighting. Now, I don't blame the people that called

470
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: it in. They're trying to help, but it really skewers

471
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: the timeline here. Resources go to that down and it's

472
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: a dead end. But the real focus should be where

473
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: do your went missing?

474
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 14: Right?

475
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 15: Yeah?

476
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 7: Police rushed to that Walmart. We went down there and

477
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 7: they pulled the surveillance footage. They were able to track

478
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 7: that guy in a nearby town. They went to his house,

479
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 7: cleared him right away. He had nothing to do with

480
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 7: the case. There was another sighting Nancy at a hotel

481
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 7: in California, have a beautiful little boy that looked just

482
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 7: like yours. I guess the good thing is that people

483
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 7: were alert and paying attention to the fact that he

484
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 7: was missing. Turns out that case was not related to

485
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 7: this one. But yeah, I mean, it does divert resources

486
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 7: away from the fact.

487
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 10: That he's still missing.

488
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

489
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 2: It's at this juncture, the search gets turned on its

490
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 2: ear listen.

491
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 13: Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Coons tell investigators just after breakfast

492
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 13: they take Deor with them on a gas run to

493
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 13: fill up Kuhon's diesel truck. The stage shop doesn't sell

494
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 13: diesel and the station two doors down is out of gas.

495
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 13: The family finally finds diesel at Peterson's Welding, then returns

496
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 13: to the stage shop for a few supplies and snacks,

497
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 13: specifically French fries for York. The couple has receipts for

498
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 13: the gas and snacks, but everyone who was at the

499
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 13: stores at the time only remembers a couple coming in.

500
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 13: They did not see a child.

501
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: Back to David Marshburne, the Kon's finally family, private investigator

502
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 2: and director of investigations at Search for Me Foundation, former

503
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: bounty hunter. Jessica Mitchell and Vernald Koon's tail investigators. After breakfast,

504
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 2: they take to Yor with them on a gas run

505
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: to fill up the diesel truck now number one. The

506
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: stage shop doesn't sell diesel and the station two doors

507
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 2: down was out of diesel gas. The family finally finds

508
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: diesel at Peterson's Welding and then returned back to the

509
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 2: stage shop for supplies and snacks, French fies for Dior.

510
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: They've got the receipts for gas and snacks. Nobody at

511
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 2: the store sees a child with them. Now, let me

512
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 2: understand something. This is where the facts seem to diverge

513
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: from me. I thought Dior was back with the grandpa

514
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: and that's where he gets lost. Now I'm hearing that

515
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: he goes to get snacks and gas. Now back to

516
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 2: the truism. It's my dauty to make all witness to

517
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,480
Speaker 2: speak the truth. Did these two things happen at two

518
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 2: different times?

519
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 8: What happened is once they got breakfast everything, the mom

520
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 8: and dad took the child and they went into town

521
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 8: to get diesel fuel. And then when they come back

522
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 8: is when the grandpa watches the child.

523
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad I suss that out with you. So

524
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: that's true. Now these people to Doctor Jeff Kelishevski joining me.

525
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 2: A forensic psychologist, author of Dark Sides. You can find

526
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: him on YouTube. Doctor Jeff Kelishevski, forensic psychologist. Got a

527
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 2: question for you, Doctor Jeff Kelishevsky. Doctor Jeff many people,

528
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: legal eagles and others have attacked those citizens that come

529
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 2: forward with a siding sightings that are dead ends that

530
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: are not door. Also the people at the gas station

531
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: and the stage shop, they have been attacked.

532
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: Claiming they're slowing down the investigation.

533
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: For all I know, these people in the stage shop

534
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: just didn't see deyor there's no indication he was left

535
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 2: out in the truck.

536
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: That didn't happen.

537
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 16: So what's your response, Well, I think what's important is

538
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 16: particularly missing cases situations that law enforcement and anyone involved

539
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 16: gather as much information as they can. As you know,

540
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 16: interviewing witnesses, sometimes you have a witness's perception, sometimes you

541
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 16: have what they're willing to tell you, and you have

542
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 16: to compare that to what's in the environment of the

543
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 16: potential crime scene and look at the logistics how do

544
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 16: people move within that crime scene. So gathering all the information,

545
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 16: looking to see what lines up and what doesn't line up,

546
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 16: and that sort of sets a stage for your next

547
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 16: inquiry or set of questions is important. So the more

548
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 16: information the better. You can always rule out things as

549
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 16: a misperception, as a mistake. But what you need to

550
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 16: do is take all that information find where there's consistencies

551
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 16: where things are plausible and where things are maybe not plausible,

552
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 16: rule those out and that leads to your next inquiry.

553
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 12: Retired US Marshall Frank Hilt volunteers to help the family

554
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 12: find Deorilt puts up personal savings for a reward, and

555
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 12: dedicates all of his time to the case. A month later,

556
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 12: Veilt terminates his working relationship with Vernal Kons and Jessica Mitchell.

557
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 12: Gilt explains his reasoning in a letter to the parents. Quote,

558
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 12: I told both of you that if I felt you

559
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 12: were not telling the truth, stalling me or otherwise misleading me,

560
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 12: that I would withdraw from the investigation. Both of you

561
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 12: lied and misrepresented the true facts that could solve the

562
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 12: mystery of your missing son.

563
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: Joining me.

564
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: David Marshburne, the Kons family private investigator and director of

565
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: Search for Me Foundation. This guy voluntarily joins the search,

566
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: puts some money for a reward, and then drops out

567
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 2: because he believes the father and girlfriend are line.

568
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am, but you have to look at the situation.

569
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 8: Built respectable man, good at what he did. He came

570
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 8: from a US Marshall background which he went after abducted

571
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 8: children by the opposite parent. He seemed to get tunnel

572
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 8: vision about Jessica adopting the child out behind Bernald's back,

573
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 8: and because they refused to take a reward for the child,

574
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 8: he even got even stronger about his belief that they

575
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 8: gave the child up for adoption. Either Jessica did it

576
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 8: without Bernal's acknowledgment, or they both did it. But the

577
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 8: parents were told by the FBI when they sepped in

578
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 8: not to give out any type of reward because it

579
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 8: could lead to a lot more false leads, and they

580
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 8: wanted to spend more of their time at the campsite

581
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 8: in the general area.

582
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 2: Okay, so that could be. That could be murky as

583
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: to why he really left. But then there is another

584
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: PI listen.

585
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 5: After Frank Viilt removes himself from the investigation, the parents

586
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 5: turned to another private investigator, Philip Klein, takes on the

587
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 5: case and is hopeful that he will find little Dior,

588
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 5: But Klein quickly runs into the same issues Viilt did.

589
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 5: Klein says the couple's story frequently changes and their timeline

590
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 5: of events crumbles under scrutiny.

591
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a renowned attorney, Penrie Trammel,

592
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: civil litigator, former prosecutor in Oregon and Idaho. You can

593
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: find her at Smith Malik dot com.

594
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: Pandri, thank you so much for being with us.

595
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: There's a reason polygraphs don't come into court. Many people argue,

596
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: like fingerprints, that was contested once too, but now it

597
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: comes into court. But here we've got five polygraphs where

598
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: Vernald Coots fails. He even fails the control question. Are

599
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: you going to tell us the truth today?

600
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, bad panjury, it is bad.

601
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 14: You know, yes, those polygraphs don't come into court based

602
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 14: on some of the science behind them. But when you're

603
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 14: looking at five failed polygraphs, there is reason for concern there,

604
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 14: especially when you fail that very first question penjury travel.

605
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: I'm sure encountered lie detector tests polygraphs, but again, both

606
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: of these people in tandem are failing multiple polygraphs. It's

607
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: bad enough if one fails, but remember these two were together.

608
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: When di Yor goes missing. This is not a good sign. Pandry.

609
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: Now you've handled a lot of domestic and custody cases

610
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: that go south.

611
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: What's your analysis?

612
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 14: Sure, So when we're looking at these polygraphs that are

613
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 14: getting completely inconsistent, especially with two people that were at

614
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 14: the same crime scene seeing the same things. We're looking at,

615
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 14: where's the consistency, where's the corroboration, you know, where are

616
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 14: those things that are lining up, and where are they

617
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 14: diverging and are those on key factors?

618
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 16: Right?

619
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 14: If we're looking at divergence on key factors or they

620
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 14: can't keep it straight, that's when we start looking at

621
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 14: those key factors and seeing what went left.

622
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 8: Bernald did not take five polygraphs. He took two. He

623
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 8: did inconclusive pass on each one. Jessica Mitchell did two

624
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 8: live detector tests. It come in conclusive pass. And the

625
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 8: reason why it did that in the in the FBI

626
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 8: agent actually told them the reason why it was in

627
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 8: conclusive pass was because of the stress that they were

628
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 8: going through of losing a child.

629
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: Join me right now, a renowned medical examiner, doctor Jen Gorniac,

630
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: who has been waiting patiently, dtr Gorniac, former medical examiner

631
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: in Clark County. That's Vegas Board certified pathologist, doctor Gorniac.

632
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 2: We know that Dior Kuntz went on that trip. We

633
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 2: know it's very heavy terrain. We are convinced he never

634
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: made it into the water, which means either he got lost,

635
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: and that would it expanse or he was kidnapped? Question

636
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: to you, The most obvious answer is he's lost in

637
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: the expanse, either killed or got lost on his own,

638
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: doctor Gorniac. If his remains were found, now, would he

639
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,720
Speaker 2: be identifiable at.

640
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: This point in time?

641
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 10: Baby, do you?

642
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 15: Or would not be identifiable? Unfortunately, I looked up the

643
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 15: weather at that time.

644
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 6: It's in July.

645
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 15: It's in the eighties, and for a little kid, it

646
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 15: will take less than a few hours for them to

647
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 15: start to decompose. So twenty four hours later he would

648
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 15: start to be decomposing. And like one of your other

649
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 15: guests says, there's probably animals out in the in the

650
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 15: in the brush and will probably got to by but

651
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 15: these years later, they're probably he's probably skeletonized, completely skeletonized.

652
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: If he's found.

653
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: Though, even if his remains are simply skeletons, couldn't we

654
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 2: still tell that it was a human child?

655
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 15: Yes, you would then have to employ an anthropologist, a

656
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 15: frontic anthropologist who can look at the bones and take

657
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 15: measurements and determine the sex and the height of the

658
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 15: child depending on teeth. Not sure if he had went

659
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 15: to the dentist, but probably at that time he didn't

660
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 15: have any cavities or fillings in his teeth that would

661
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 15: be able to identify him. But had he had some

662
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 15: X rays of his teeth, of his skull at some point,

663
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 15: then would be able to do it. I'm not sure

664
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440
Speaker 15: there'll be any bone marrow left to do DNA. It'd

665
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 15: be very difficult. In a case like this. It would

666
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 15: probably come down to circumstantial saying that based on the

667
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 15: information and the circumstances, we can't do it scientifically fingerprints, DNA, dentist,

668
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 15: so we would have to say circumstantially this is probably.

669
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: Dear doctor Gorniac.

670
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: I can't think of any way if his remains are

671
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 2: there that he would not be skeletonized.

672
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 15: Correct, you would be skeletonized. But this case, as a

673
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 15: forensic pathologist, I have so many of the questions. So

674
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 15: our job as a friend of pathologist, besides causing man

675
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 15: or death identification of the body is to prove or

676
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 15: disprove the circumstances. I can't imagine any of these scenarios

677
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 15: where you're not going to hear a child scream, cry,

678
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 15: any other noises that the grandfather or the friend of

679
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 15: the grandfather would have heard. So let's just say a

680
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 15: big bird came down, you would have heard something. I'm

681
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 15: not sure that a two year old would just be silent.

682
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: Pendri Trammel with US renowned civil litigator and former criminal

683
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 2: prosecutor at Smith Malik dot com. Pendrey, in a case

684
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 2: like this, if his remains are found, it would be

685
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: very difficult to prove or disprove that he was murdered

686
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 2: unless his remains have been buried or secreted in some way.

687
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 14: Sure, I think that would be again that circumstantial evidence

688
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 14: that doctor Gorniac was talking about.

689
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: You're looking at what's.

690
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 14: Surrounding where you find, unfortunately, the child's remains.

691
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 4: At that point, the other thing you'd.

692
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 14: Be looking at is is there anybody.

693
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: Else that's gone missing in that area?

694
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 14: Are we ruling out other potential children that have gone missing?

695
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 14: You have to look at the entire picture and kind

696
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,959
Speaker 14: of put those circumstantial pieces together too.

697
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: David Marshburn joining us se Kun's Family Private Investigator Directorate

698
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 2: Search for Me Foundation. David, what do you think happened?

699
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 8: I do believe there was foul play involved. I do

700
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 8: not believe the parents were involved in that.

701
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: Where is Dior Coons.

702
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: Do you know how much money, how many thousands, how

703
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: many tens of thousands of dollars many people in this

704
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 2: country would pay to get a little child like deor

705
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: he could be anywhere. If you know or think you

706
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: know anything about the disappearance of this child, please dial

707
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 2: the tip line to zero eight seven five six eight

708
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 2: nine eight zero two zero eight seven five six eight

709
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 2: nine eight zero. We wait for justice to unfold and

710
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 2: the search of Totboy Diyor Coons.

711
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: And now we.

712
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: Stopped to remember an American hero Officer, Brandon Paul Astorf

713
00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 2: of Base Saint Louis Police Department in Mississippi, just twenty three,

714
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 2: shot and killed in the line of duty, Survived by

715
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 2: a grieving mother and father Nan also in law enforcement,

716
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 2: siblings Lily, Sophia, Jordana, Chloe, and Andrew. American hero Officer

717
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: Brandon Paul Estorf. Thank you to all of our guests

718
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 2: for joining us in the search for Door, but especially

719
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: to you for being with us.

720
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, good bye friend.