Speaker 1: We all learned a new Lavian word. It's blouch. If
Speaker 1: the lavine is telling the hunting story and they get
Speaker 1: to the part where you'd go like, let's say I'm
Speaker 1: telling the hunt the story, I'm like and he ran
Speaker 1: out across the field, and now I was going blam
Speaker 1: blam bam. Lavia would say, I went blouch blouch blouch. Right, honey,
Speaker 1: with a little bit of k in there. Yanni Van's
Speaker 1: Walls brother Martin who tell us, is with us, another
Speaker 1: Lavian speaker, joined by Doug Dern. We'll be Doug. We're
Speaker 1: in Doug's Hall of trophies right now. Doug, will I
Speaker 1: go around the room and introducing everybody else. Can you
Speaker 1: count how many deer are in here? Uh? Brittany Brothers
Speaker 1: just got her third, second and third White Tales of
Speaker 1: the season, Helen Chow first white tailed buck ever for her.
Speaker 1: And then there's a couple of people are just sitting here,
Speaker 1: Kevin Biermeyer and Jared faint Um. Back to Blouch, say,
Speaker 1: I met Janice and Martin's father over a year ago,
Speaker 1: but I visited with him yesterday and he shared a
Speaker 1: story with me where he was talking about why deer
Speaker 1: camp is important, and he said that it was helpful,
Speaker 1: uh to show it was a health of way to
Speaker 1: to um demonstrate different kind of social relationships and and
Speaker 1: social interactions to your son, like you bring your son
Speaker 1: to deer camp and he see e's how people relate
Speaker 1: and how people have traditions. And as you tell me
Speaker 1: the story is talking about bringing uh young Yanni to
Speaker 1: a deer camp where someone had a lot of girly
Speaker 1: magazines stapled up on the walls alight eight or nine.
Speaker 1: He said, well, I think he was just trying to
Speaker 1: clean the story up. So his dad, so you were,
Speaker 1: you were you can hunt it twelve years at fourteen,
Speaker 1: So that was my first year with a rifle. And
Speaker 1: I definitely came a few years prior to you that.
Speaker 1: So so you were twelve No, I'm saying, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. He was between nine and twelve. And
Speaker 1: his father's telling me this story and he says, of
Speaker 1: of young Yanni walking into this room. He says, yeah,
Speaker 1: and let me I think it was a it was
Speaker 1: a trailer at that time, because it wasn't at the
Speaker 1: camp that we stay at. We would go and visit
Speaker 1: the neighbors, you know, see whatever it was up to
Speaker 1: and the guy but he had a he had a
Speaker 1: lab in American. What do you call it helen? When
Speaker 1: it's half Korean half English, can you speak oh conglish.
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of like languish language taught going on.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so this guy had this nickname like they
Speaker 1: speaking a half lav and half English. Yeah, it's probably
Speaker 1: more like a were doing that earlier today. It was
Speaker 1: he yesterday, Harry. Anyways, his nickname was two meals, two meals.
Speaker 1: Well that's what it was spawned from because he was
Speaker 1: a big guy and he always eight two meals, and
Speaker 1: so that was combined and his nickname was two meals.
Speaker 1: For the longest time, I just thought it was that
Speaker 1: was his last name. I thought his name was Yannest
Speaker 1: two meals. I thought that was his last name too, right,
Speaker 1: But actually no, his last name. That is just a
Speaker 1: nickname because the dude always eight two meals. Because two
Speaker 1: meals is a very Latvian sounding name, right, But yeah,
Speaker 1: what's his last name? Put like the flare on it
Speaker 1: um in base that want to get back? Sorry, no,
Speaker 1: go ahead, okay, so nickname, No, it is a cool nickname.
Speaker 1: But now you guys are arguing over what his real
Speaker 1: name was. No, I was just just telling me anyway.
Speaker 1: So Yanni's dad's nostalgic, and he says, it's talking about
Speaker 1: Yanni deer Camp and he's explaining Yanni walking into this
Speaker 1: house with all the girly magazines on the wall, and
Speaker 1: he goes, I can't remember exactly. He says, uh, this
Speaker 1: was the first time in Yanni's life when he had
Speaker 1: so much pussy laid out before him, and there's a
Speaker 1: picture of him right over his head. I love your dad,
Speaker 1: and your dad's great. I was just slightly disappointed he
Speaker 1: didn't have an accent, but that's my only I didn't
Speaker 1: think he had an accent. I thought he would have
Speaker 1: an accent, an accent. He doesn't have an accent, but
Speaker 1: he loves to do Like at Yanni's wedding, he comes
Speaker 1: out and gives his speech as if he's shows up,
Speaker 1: and he goes, I can't really do it real well,
Speaker 1: but he's like, hello, how everybody doing tonight? My English
Speaker 1: not very good. He had a bunch of southerns going
Speaker 1: because they really thought he maybe didn't he was just
Speaker 1: off the boat. YEA, yeah, Well, I think we talked
Speaker 1: about the last time, last time, do you count off
Speaker 1: the buck racks in here? Uh, he's too busy taking
Speaker 1: his selfies over there. Good many Helen, can you count
Speaker 1: the buck racks? So last time we were in, last
Speaker 1: time we recorded and here we were talking about the
Speaker 1: buck racks in here. Um, last time we here, we're
Speaker 1: talking about the proximity the Lavian area, the Lavian hunting
Speaker 1: camp area, two dugs place, and we're just here for
Speaker 1: to to participate in and and and celebrate the opening
Speaker 1: day of Wisconsin's Firearm to Your season. And Yanni's dad
Speaker 1: was at with some Latvians eating Lavian rye bread with
Speaker 1: liver worst on it and eating um pet dogs pete
Speaker 1: doggins say that ducks ducks And uh, he dropped by
Speaker 1: to see us. But we did three days of full
Speaker 1: balls with scanny white tail hunting opening day. You guys
Speaker 1: had Helen in Britain. You had never participated in this
Speaker 1: sort of thing. The two when people when it comes
Speaker 1: to the opening day traditions, people bring up people say
Speaker 1: two things. They say that it feels like Christmas and
Speaker 1: it feels like a war zone. Yes, it feels like Christmas.
Speaker 1: Sounds like a war zone. What was your guys, like,
Speaker 1: what was your impression? I mean, can you gotta get
Speaker 1: like what the whole opening day deals about? Oh, without
Speaker 1: a doubt. I mean there was a big hullabaloo about
Speaker 1: it the night before. You know, everybody comes into deer camp,
Speaker 1: everyone's got their bots and then yeah, I mean we
Speaker 1: got there and even before shooting light we heard doesn't
Speaker 1: stop him, right. Some of them they anticipation. There's some
Speaker 1: you know, the Christmas analogy. There's some guys that always peak,
Speaker 1: always like to get on the middle of night and peak.
Speaker 1: There was a guy. There was a guy, well one
Speaker 1: he was What was unique about the guy that shot
Speaker 1: very early? He was a one shot guy. Most Wisconsin
Speaker 1: nights like to clear their magazine before they register about
Speaker 1: whether any of the hits might have hit, because there's
Speaker 1: no way that you could be shooting in red and
Speaker 1: mentally registering the results of the shot as fast as
Speaker 1: what you hear some shooting around here. I wish you
Speaker 1: could see I think it would you possibly know if
Speaker 1: any of those shots. I think what you're failing to
Speaker 1: recognize is it's possibly two or three guys standing together
Speaker 1: that could be I had yeah, because I had a
Speaker 1: conversation with a with a I'm not gonna name his name, um,
Speaker 1: but a man I've come to love over the years
Speaker 1: who just stopped by because people stopped by a lot
Speaker 1: during the opening days of deer season. He stopped by,
Speaker 1: and he was saying that the one good, uh, the
Speaker 1: one nice buck they saw it wasn't big enough to
Speaker 1: quote get us out of the truck, which would imply
Speaker 1: if they jumped out, there could have been some bou
Speaker 1: without anyone register what was going on. I'm joking, of course,
Speaker 1: but it's a it's an enormous amount of shooting. I
Speaker 1: think Dirk and did. Didn't Dirkin once calculate or he
Speaker 1: at least publish this it on open day? Right? A
Speaker 1: deer second deer second Wisconsin? That article, Yeah, a second
Speaker 1: deer per second in Wisconsin is the title of that article.
Speaker 1: There's hundreds of thousands of deer. How many seconds are in?
Speaker 1: How many seconds are in a day? Because you always
Speaker 1: on your your eyes doing a little chores on your phone.
Speaker 1: I guess somebody doing that for me over here? Now? No,
Speaker 1: and didn't who was it you that brought it up?
Speaker 1: That's the third standing army that is such a bullshit.
Speaker 1: It's been going on every year. This is the third
Speaker 1: large largest army in the world. A lot of Wisconsin.
Speaker 1: There's a deer second. Yeah, no, I'm no, because here's
Speaker 1: the thing, the whole thing like that Wisconsin has the
Speaker 1: largest standing it's like, define a standing army. This is
Speaker 1: not a standing army. It's the third largest. That particularly
Speaker 1: on that particular day's third largest army of people seated
Speaker 1: on buckets and I could possibly rise up in arms
Speaker 1: and then it's always and nobody got hurt. Well, somebody
Speaker 1: always gets hurt. I'm guessing that guy that early shot.
Speaker 1: I always wonder how does that happen. It's got to
Speaker 1: be somebody loading a rifle. That's well, that's what we
Speaker 1: thought to accident discharge in the morning. You thought it
Speaker 1: was accidental discharge. Yeah, because it was dark. It was
Speaker 1: twenty minutes before shooting light. I mean, but I think
Speaker 1: the statute, I hope the Statute of Limitations is a
Speaker 1: run out on this because I'm gonna tell, like in
Speaker 1: like in Michigan opening Day. So you guys, Wisconsin does
Speaker 1: a wacky words. You know, you can't tell what it's
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Third Saturday, in November. Yeah, they confuse it.
Speaker 1: In Michigan. It's just like the same date every year,
Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. Third Saturday means third Saturday, which is
Speaker 1: always the Saturday before Thanksgiving. You always know when dear
Speaker 1: season is, I mean the real dear season. I mean
Speaker 1: that bow hunting thing. Yeah, so in Michigan it's not
Speaker 1: like that. So so out of every seven opening days,
Speaker 1: five of them requires you to get out of something.
Speaker 1: You know. And when I was in college, I went
Speaker 1: briefly to Lake Speare State and in university and this
Speaker 1: guy had Did I ever tell the story? I think
Speaker 1: I was talking about this this guy, this professor had
Speaker 1: this thing you can if you miss certain number of days,
Speaker 1: you could never get higher than that. Did I tell
Speaker 1: you this story? I've pretty much heard all your stories,
Speaker 1: I think, But tell it anyway. It's just killing me
Speaker 1: that I can't think if I told us or not.
Speaker 1: Does this ring a bell? The class I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: you haven't told it on the podcast. I've heard it
Speaker 1: before in the thousand times in a blind but not. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I'll tell So it's a great story. This guy,
Speaker 1: this professor had this rule that once you miss a
Speaker 1: certain number classes. You couldn't get anything better than to see,
Speaker 1: no matter how good you did. And it was a
Speaker 1: speak it was a class. It was like a speaking class.
Speaker 1: And um, and I missed all my days and then
Speaker 1: opening day comes up, and like if I go deer
Speaker 1: hunting an opening day, I can't get any better to see.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm not gonna let this man
Speaker 1: steal this from me, this opening day situation. So we
Speaker 1: drove I it was a morning classes at eight am.
Speaker 1: Class drove down to hunt and we're hunting on a guy,
Speaker 1: UM name Herb Scales place and he'd gotten in some
Speaker 1: trouble with some messing up of wetlands at the time,
Speaker 1: so we called him her Beside Scales. But he we
Speaker 1: went up to hunt his place and it was kind
Speaker 1: of getting light out, not really by the time. I
Speaker 1: didn't really know about really the what time. I just
Speaker 1: knew this opening day and you didn't. You're not looking
Speaker 1: at your watch, you're looking at that whether you can
Speaker 1: see that. A deer runs out in front of me
Speaker 1: and stops like aware of me in the darkness, and
Speaker 1: it was so dark. I remember that I got down
Speaker 1: with my cheeks like the ground in order to skylight
Speaker 1: the deer's head, and I could skylight the deer and
Speaker 1: see that it was that it had antlers. Then I
Speaker 1: found its white throat patch and my scope, but it
Speaker 1: was so dark I couldn't see the crosshairs, and I
Speaker 1: just imagined centering the throat patch in the center of
Speaker 1: my scope and blouch. Yeah. I was early for class
Speaker 1: that day. Huh. I didn't even gut it. I drug
Speaker 1: it out of the trail where I knew my brother
Speaker 1: would hit it on his way out of his blind
Speaker 1: and boogie it off and made it the class into
Speaker 1: date that class. I'll say this, this will date me
Speaker 1: and date the class. We we had to do. One
Speaker 1: of our speeches we had to give to the class was,
Speaker 1: uh speech we try to convince someone of something, And
Speaker 1: there was a dude doing a thing. He was arguing
Speaker 1: that you should not be buying tapes anymore. You should
Speaker 1: start buying c D s. Yeah, he was like, man,
Speaker 1: tapes are done, dude. C D S is where it's at.
Speaker 1: The lasts longer, bouch. So opening day, you get up
Speaker 1: and it's gonna be the day if you like, If
Speaker 1: you don't get a deer on every day your chances
Speaker 1: of getting a deer go down. I remember in mission
Speaker 1: needs to say if he didn't kill deer an open day,
Speaker 1: your odds of getting a deer that deer season were
Speaker 1: reduced by we saw an open day three deer. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That was sitting. Dawn told us,
Speaker 1: so you're sitting in the woods from legal hour, but
Speaker 1: we were there our four legal shooting light. Right, So
Speaker 1: we're there at five thirty UM and we sat till
Speaker 1: legal last legal shooting light ended it like five oh four. Yep,
Speaker 1: we're there all day, did all day the next day,
Speaker 1: did the whole thing all over again. So twelve hours
Speaker 1: in the blind, not quite eleven hours, eleven and a
Speaker 1: half hours in the blind, back again, eleven and a
Speaker 1: half hours in the blind. The second day of the season,
Speaker 1: we saw two. We're hunting a spot called First Ravine.
Speaker 1: I thought of a great book would be from twenty
Speaker 1: two to two, the untold story of First Ravine. And
Speaker 1: then the third day I think we didn't see shit.
Speaker 1: Oh we saw that button buck that four key ran
Speaker 1: through work, he ran through and came over to me,
Speaker 1: then through and then day I saw you push those
Speaker 1: two but that was doing it that was doing a drive,
Speaker 1: doing a mooch drive. So open day really like it,
Speaker 1: just if you haven't ever experienced anything like And just
Speaker 1: imagine that the woods is quiet sixty essentially three sixty
Speaker 1: four days out of the ear. And then there's this
Speaker 1: day when all of a sudden, you got what's half
Speaker 1: a million people in this stay have a hunting license.
Speaker 1: Over half a million people in this stay have a
Speaker 1: hunting license. And then on that opening day around the
Speaker 1: stay over like a deer second get shot. It has
Speaker 1: a profound impact on dear behavior. They just run. Every
Speaker 1: dug's over here, looked like he's in pain hearing that.
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Speaker 1: your house up so you know what's up, all right? So, Doug,
Speaker 1: when I when I was like, like, I feel that
Speaker 1: I I feel dog that you that that you don't
Speaker 1: like how um explaining open day, and but but I
Speaker 1: love opening Day. I grew up doing Opening Day. I've
Speaker 1: come to you twice to participate in your opening Day.
Speaker 1: Yet what I'm saying somehow seems to contradict some of
Speaker 1: your impressions. Well, he talked about well, obviously I can't
Speaker 1: disagree with a deer a second. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: your comments about um ther their dear behavior changes and
Speaker 1: all that, and the shooting begins, So you go from
Speaker 1: this calmness to the shooting. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: shooting around here for two weeks before opening day. I
Speaker 1: mean every weekend you hear people, Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: bouch bouch. You know, it's not going on out there.
Speaker 1: And uh so it's probably the combination of people in
Speaker 1: the woods, the shooting and then the gut piles that
Speaker 1: freaks the deer out, which is kind of what you
Speaker 1: were getting at. Everything changed. It's it's so dramatic how
Speaker 1: it changes from opening day. The deer activity or the
Speaker 1: deer sightings changed from opening day to the second day.
Speaker 1: And m there have been plenty of times where I
Speaker 1: saw as many many deer on the second day as
Speaker 1: I did on the first day. But those are doing
Speaker 1: their dear thing on this farm. Yeah, like out feeding
Speaker 1: in the morning. You're in don't feed nine ten the well,
Speaker 1: talking in the woods, they don't. Oh well, okay, I'm sorry. Monday, Well,
Speaker 1: it wasn't nine ten in the morning, it was eight
Speaker 1: nine in the morning. Those deer were feeding through everything
Speaker 1: that rich pounder and I saw up there on the
Speaker 1: pale stand was just going through doing its dear thing.
Speaker 1: And that was Monday. So are you you feel that
Speaker 1: it doesn't the open day does not have a profound
Speaker 1: impact on the way the dear act. No, I was
Speaker 1: just challenged about apparently having a look on my face
Speaker 1: that was um painful, though clearly it does. Clearly it does.
Speaker 1: I guess what I was going to say was it
Speaker 1: made it? You know, feels like Christmas sounds like a
Speaker 1: war zone, and it's just doesn't. It's not as war zone,
Speaker 1: you know. It's it's there isn't as much shooting as
Speaker 1: there used to be. There's not as much of that.
Speaker 1: Do your activity, you know, deer running in as there
Speaker 1: used to be. Um, the hunting pressure isn't the same, feel,
Speaker 1: it's less hunting pressure these parts. Yeah, I really do.
Speaker 1: What do you attribute that too? I think that uh
Speaker 1: uh gun hunting used to be a lot more moving
Speaker 1: deer pretty much right away. Now it's very much a
Speaker 1: challenge of sitting. Uh. People are afraid to push dear
Speaker 1: off their property, and I'm guilty of it too, you know,
Speaker 1: fraids the wrong word, but are reluctant to get up
Speaker 1: and move around and push dear off their property. Um,
Speaker 1: because the neighbor is gonna shoot it. And you know
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Yeah, I want to let me
Speaker 1: just interject on that thought from it. In this area,
Speaker 1: it's all hunnible ground. I mean, it's just like this
Speaker 1: is like dear country. Yeah, houses are very scattered apart.
Speaker 1: The ones that are there are the houses. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a small community near here, but the houses are
Speaker 1: very scattered apart. The ones that are are not like
Speaker 1: those overly manicured places people kind of have. It's like
Speaker 1: a country setting. Agricultural wood lots butt up against everything.
Speaker 1: All the houses around here. You could pretty much have
Speaker 1: probably a great hunt by just opening the window and
Speaker 1: looking out your window. I mean, it's like deer country, right.
Speaker 1: And the plate the plots are people probably own anywhere
Speaker 1: from forty acres two acres. There are people more than that,
Speaker 1: and most of the ground is probably in some way
Speaker 1: or another getting hunted. I don't know about that. I
Speaker 1: guess that's a part of what I'm saying. And I
Speaker 1: don't we're talking about earlier. You and I were talking
Speaker 1: about trying to speak to the neighbors and get a
Speaker 1: group together, and and um and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I really should take. I have a map of the
Speaker 1: township and every forty or every eighty or every you know,
Speaker 1: ownership is on that and just start really looking, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: who's hunting there? Is there someone hunting there? Um? Is
Speaker 1: there not something to they allow hunting there because they're
Speaker 1: one of the complaints you hear often about um private
Speaker 1: land and things like managed forest law and the other
Speaker 1: programs as well. People don't the public isn't allowed access
Speaker 1: to that land, and so nobody's in there moving the deer.
Speaker 1: And I think that's probably true because deer aren't going
Speaker 1: to come out of a place. They may go into
Speaker 1: a place where they're not bothered, and they're not gonna
Speaker 1: come out of there if they're not bothered for a
Speaker 1: day or two, and then there behavior has changed. And
Speaker 1: back when I was a kid um and started hunting,
Speaker 1: as we talked about over forty years ago, Um, we
Speaker 1: hunted kind of wherever we wanted to, and I mean
Speaker 1: with no thought to who owned what. Yeah, I remember
Speaker 1: seeing the first no trespassing signs in the response was
Speaker 1: a sign that said, if you're land is posted, stay
Speaker 1: the hell off of mine. Yeah, when I was a
Speaker 1: kid in my day, he's just going tear no trespassing
Speaker 1: signs now. He learned it from a guy named Eugene Grotors. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you thought it was ugly someone who put one
Speaker 1: up and they just go and take them all down.
Speaker 1: I thought it was just like it spoiled everything to
Speaker 1: see all those signs everywhere. That's what they thought, well,
Speaker 1: and I don't disagree with that, but visually they didn't
Speaker 1: like it. I thought it was tacky. Right. Laws and
Speaker 1: Wisconsin are now that if you don't have permission, you're trespassing.
Speaker 1: It used to be if it's not posted, you can
Speaker 1: go on it. So a lot of Western states you
Speaker 1: still like that landor's obligation to post his land, which
Speaker 1: I think is uh. I think that the way the
Speaker 1: law is now, at least in Wisconsin, is the correct
Speaker 1: way to do it. If you don't have permission beyond or,
Speaker 1: you're trespassing. So what was the point of that um
Speaker 1: In there's places you think the deer get piled up
Speaker 1: on where they're not getting bumped off, and people are
Speaker 1: reluctant to push deer around because they think you're going
Speaker 1: to go onto their property and they don't want to
Speaker 1: push them out. Yeah, so someone else shooting at them
Speaker 1: and the idea of the mooch is a little has
Speaker 1: a little bit of that in it, that we're not
Speaker 1: trying to run deer out, we're just trying to bump them.
Speaker 1: Or you're as a still hunter as the moocher. You're, um, hopefully,
Speaker 1: if you're good at it, you're as apt to be
Speaker 1: able to get a shot at a deer as someone
Speaker 1: who's sitting in one of the places that were you
Speaker 1: know where we're trying to ambush the deer, but we're
Speaker 1: really not trying to just run them out, you know,
Speaker 1: like surrounding forty and run them all out of there. Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: what ducks tap about? When you go to hunt deer
Speaker 1: in the Midwest, you it typically happens two ways. You
Speaker 1: ambush them, so you sit somewhere away for the year
Speaker 1: to come to you, or you drive them. And the
Speaker 1: way you do drives generally is get a handful of
Speaker 1: dudes that go to a spot where the most likely
Speaker 1: route of travel to be taken by a fleeing deer.
Speaker 1: Then you get a handful of other dudes to go
Speaker 1: in there and line up and push them out. So
Speaker 1: it's like when you imagine the Revolutionary War, like everybody
Speaker 1: lined up, you know, like the red coats are coming
Speaker 1: all lined up. You line up like that and march
Speaker 1: into a chunk of deer cover and bust them out.
Speaker 1: And they go heading out that way, and the interceptors
Speaker 1: try to get him. So you got pushers and standards,
Speaker 1: dog and his crew out here. They have a thing
Speaker 1: called which they have come to call mooching. What mooching
Speaker 1: means if both sportsmen, if you ask them what the
Speaker 1: mooch was. It's a way to catch salmon where you
Speaker 1: run your mainline down to a bananimate then off that bannily. Wait,
Speaker 1: you got a leader in a couple of octopus hooks
Speaker 1: and you cut a harring's head off in such a
Speaker 1: way that you can put it on there in a
Speaker 1: herring spins and your mooch and salmon. But explain what
Speaker 1: you guys say a mooches. Well, so everybody goes out
Speaker 1: in the morning to their pre chosen or pre exciting stands.
Speaker 1: Ambush spots, ambush spots. Can you name a bunch of
Speaker 1: ambush spots? Uh? Sure, New Power? Uh? Uh? Two man
Speaker 1: stand that's there's a boring one. Dad's woods. Uh. We
Speaker 1: were we were on Brittany and I were at uh
Speaker 1: matt stand. Um, there's the Ranella ravine shot on a stick,
Speaker 1: ship on a stick. Did you hear that Ranella ravine
Speaker 1: he got renee aimed on the podcast? It's the first
Speaker 1: Well the dump uh fool on the hill. Isn't there
Speaker 1: a standard? New standard standard? New standard? That the thing
Speaker 1: is is that the standard stand. It wasn't really a stand.
Speaker 1: It was just something that I put up in a
Speaker 1: elm tree near a betting area where I had seen
Speaker 1: this deer and uh, I just strapped a ladder to it,
Speaker 1: or I'm sorry, it's the ladder stick to that elm
Speaker 1: tree and then kind of got a hangar stuck up
Speaker 1: in there. And it was about I don't know, fourteen
Speaker 1: inch diameter elm tree that two hundred seventy pound dude
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have been crawling up into, but I was
Speaker 1: gonna kill that deer, and uh, I crawled up in
Speaker 1: there and I sat it in the stand long enough
Speaker 1: to kill that deer and never used it again. So
Speaker 1: new standards just a better place to sit that spot. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and a better stand, you know on the tree that
Speaker 1: I uh shot hit that deer out of. Uh. It
Speaker 1: was an elm, a white elm tree that has since
Speaker 1: died and actually found real mushroom sounder a couple of
Speaker 1: for a couple of years in a row. Congratulations. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it's you know, it's a tree that keeps on giving.
Speaker 1: And uh so yeah, standard news Standard the rock, the rock,
Speaker 1: and that one's name because there's a big rock there.
Speaker 1: I just know you wouldn't get that connection otherwise, so
Speaker 1: all right, so yeah, that's what it's a jump in there.
Speaker 1: So the mooch. Everybody goes out to their stand. So picture,
Speaker 1: we're on a We're on a chunk of ground, a
Speaker 1: sizeable chunk of ground. Hunters acre is a ground mixed
Speaker 1: woodland farmland. These stands are all over the place, covering
Speaker 1: areas and it depends on how many people you have UM.
Speaker 1: But the idea is that one person is designated to
Speaker 1: start the mooch at the assigned time in the morning,
Speaker 1: and especially with the people who hunted here before, and
Speaker 1: you know, our our core group, there's you know, four
Speaker 1: or five of us that I know it really well
Speaker 1: and they so the moocher starts moving, still hunting very
Speaker 1: slowly through UM gets to a designated spot. Another stand
Speaker 1: gets in that stand and the next guy starts to move.
Speaker 1: If it nothing's happened. But the idea is that you'll
Speaker 1: bump a deer and it may go past everybody else
Speaker 1: or or someone else, and if it doesn't, it may
Speaker 1: do something as simple as turn around and go back
Speaker 1: and lie down. Um. My, my brother's here, Uh was
Speaker 1: in uh the bent oak stand one time, and I
Speaker 1: went mooching up near him near the ravine and and
Speaker 1: he watched, Dear, I didn't see a little forky buck
Speaker 1: get up, move away from me, turn around like a rabbit,
Speaker 1: swing all the way back around me. I was going
Speaker 1: slow enough that it wasn't excited. Its circled back around
Speaker 1: and laid back down pretty much in the same spot
Speaker 1: after I had passed. So that idea that you know,
Speaker 1: you're not getting the deer all excited, and it's more
Speaker 1: or less natural movement. Um. And we really like that
Speaker 1: part of it. And then there is the element you're
Speaker 1: not running it out, you know, somewhere else, and when
Speaker 1: you're trying to do some buck management, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe some folks around you aren't. Uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like that's a way of keeping deer on your place. Um.
Speaker 1: But it's also way of moving them and kind of
Speaker 1: seeing what you you have and getting some good hunting opportunities,
Speaker 1: because you know, I'm not a big fan of shooting
Speaker 1: at a running deer, a walking deer, or you know,
Speaker 1: quickly moving deer, but you know, where's a deer drive.
Speaker 1: When you push them out, they come up carrying the
Speaker 1: mail we like to call it. Yeah, on a mooch,
Speaker 1: you do get a chance like the bump deer off
Speaker 1: and when you're in the standing spot, the bump deer.
Speaker 1: By the time they get to you are pretty chilled out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're kind of like watching their back trail a little bit,
Speaker 1: but they're down to a normal that's exactly right, normal
Speaker 1: plug yep, you know, as opposed to a drive where
Speaker 1: there haul and asked to the next big patch of
Speaker 1: woods or or you know, they'll blow across the field
Speaker 1: and keep right on going. Although today, um, I went
Speaker 1: out to try to move a few deer for folks,
Speaker 1: and uh, Helen and John were in a blind and
Speaker 1: I knew they were deer around there to chow and
Speaker 1: and uh and Cho's boyfriend John's here. Yeah, and uh,
Speaker 1: they needed another deer because they didn't have enough to Butcher.
Speaker 1: Apparently they thought they had a lot of time on
Speaker 1: their hands. It's something for butcher. And uh so I
Speaker 1: went out and took a walk, and uh I moved
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and the deer moved really quickly. When they
Speaker 1: came out, I mean they stopped. They were standing in
Speaker 1: the woods looking at me, and then I moved to
Speaker 1: try to get them to go past Helen and they
Speaker 1: carried the mail across that field. There was no stop
Speaker 1: in them. You never you couldn't get a crack out
Speaker 1: of him. They were running like hell, just like what
Speaker 1: happened up there? You try to stop. Yeah, we're like,
Speaker 1: oh you're classic y not having it? What's your like?
Speaker 1: Getting hell? And give me your just give me your whole.
Speaker 1: Like let's say you went home and do you have
Speaker 1: a grandma. Let's see your grandma said, what were you
Speaker 1: doing in Wisconsin? What's up with that? What would you say? Like,
Speaker 1: how would you explain? Like what are your impressions about
Speaker 1: opening day? Deer hunting and all that? Like everything you've
Speaker 1: seen here, seen and done here Christmas or war? The
Speaker 1: morning sounds like a war zone, I mean just NonStop
Speaker 1: gun shots. Then the second day was just completely quiet.
Speaker 1: You know, many gun shots I heard this morning from
Speaker 1: I heard one prior to eight am. Then I heard
Speaker 1: some cracking because my thing was cracking away twice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think by eight am I heard a shot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but there was the guy I thought you shot, because
Speaker 1: there was the guys that shot by you. That was
Speaker 1: the dude that was sitting by me on the other
Speaker 1: side of the fence. Well, the first day I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this is intense or everywhere, and then the second day
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is what deer hunting was. Actually,
Speaker 1: like the cold you found did did plenty of opportunities
Speaker 1: in an opening day. I just couldn't pull together but
Speaker 1: not but but not relaxed deer. The Bucky got was
Speaker 1: feeding the Bucky got was not like he was feeding deer. No,
Speaker 1: he had no idea. But we had dear five the
Speaker 1: through and you're trying to just talk about that, like
Speaker 1: what the challenges I don't know. It was just there's
Speaker 1: so many deer. But it was frustrating because you couldn't
Speaker 1: get you couldn't get set up quick enough, or at
Speaker 1: least I couldn't get set up quick enough to find
Speaker 1: a window. I mean, it was Trino that it was
Speaker 1: pretty thick with brush and so you'd have to you know,
Speaker 1: literally be moving in your blind um and then you know,
Speaker 1: quickly finding your scope the one window between trees that
Speaker 1: you might be able to get a shot, and then
Speaker 1: by that point they're already moving. So it was just frustrating. Yeah,
Speaker 1: exciting because you're constantly seeing deer so even though you're cold,
Speaker 1: you know, but it was, yeah, very frustrating. Is this
Speaker 1: something you'd go do more of? Yeah, for sure, because
Speaker 1: you guys experienced, I mean your experience is from big
Speaker 1: game hunting. You went on elk hunt like full balls,
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was just they're both challenging in very
Speaker 1: different ways. Like el elk hunting is very challenging, but
Speaker 1: I mean in the way that it's very physically demanding
Speaker 1: and you're constantly searching and walking and I mean there's
Speaker 1: some sitting too, but I feel like there's a lot
Speaker 1: more moving, whereas this kind of hunting you're sitting in
Speaker 1: a blind for ten eleven hours, being cold as hell,
Speaker 1: and then you know having quickly holdings together. So I
Speaker 1: don't know, there are parts of like after having got
Speaker 1: on the elk hunt, parts of this where you would
Speaker 1: see deer runoff out of your shooting range and the
Speaker 1: like you just wanted to go after them, Yeah, thinking
Speaker 1: that you could. Yeah. Yeah, Like well as soon as
Speaker 1: we left are blind deer came out everywhere, and that
Speaker 1: felt like a little bit like the elk hunt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Helen like talk about get talking about getting your like,
Speaker 1: tell what happened there? I don't know, I blocked out.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding. I'm like actually really like grateful that we
Speaker 1: have this on camera because sometimes I'm like, what happened
Speaker 1: that day? It all blends together. Um. I was sitting
Speaker 1: on the right side, you were sitting on the left side,
Speaker 1: and your stump, and we kept seeing deer on the
Speaker 1: left side. Right. So every time you see a deer
Speaker 1: and be like, okay, quickly switch spaces with me. And
Speaker 1: the concept of having to move quickly but having to
Speaker 1: do it slowly so the deer can see you, it
Speaker 1: was like very frustrating. Yeah, it's a certain kind of quicktion. Um,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just I don't know that. Well, there
Speaker 1: are two other was there two doughs behind it and
Speaker 1: the dougs oak trees killing killing dogs, red oaks? No,
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was like the perfect shot,
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to take a shot that wasn't
Speaker 1: for me as someone who doesn't have much experience hunting.
Speaker 1: I felt like I needed a shot that was broadside. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to point out that need you guys gave
Speaker 1: a ship if you got a buck or dough hell
Speaker 1: have been trying like hell to shoot the does that
Speaker 1: were rolling through, but they were all kind of in
Speaker 1: a hurry and just had you gotta buck just because
Speaker 1: that had to be the first. Yeah. I mean that
Speaker 1: thing was nice shot, just feet and chilled out. It
Speaker 1: was perfect. So there were two bucks. This is the
Speaker 1: first time I've heard this part of the Yeah, what
Speaker 1: was the other buck? Like the same looked just like
Speaker 1: his buddy. The other bucket I had in the camera lens.
Speaker 1: And when Joe shoots hurt buck, the other one goes
Speaker 1: huh and then it keeps right on eating, right, he
Speaker 1: goes right on eating those He kind of hopped a
Speaker 1: little bit, said they just apparely. He lifted his head
Speaker 1: and was like h And I was like, yeah, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm good. They had it was a button. It was
Speaker 1: three bucks. It was in two bucks that were twins. No,
Speaker 1: not twins just so I don't want to get out
Speaker 1: of the blind right away. No, I was like, he's
Speaker 1: not going anywhere. Um, he just ran aways and got
Speaker 1: woozy and tipped over in a ve thought I missed him. Remember,
Speaker 1: I looked over, like did I miss I was? She said?
Speaker 1: I think I missed him. I was like, if you
Speaker 1: missed him, he's gonna have to visit a cardio because
Speaker 1: there's blood streaming out of him. Um, he um piled up.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to go down the right wicks.
Speaker 1: I wanted it because there's so much happening that's just
Speaker 1: like just dear every which way, and I don't want
Speaker 1: to go down there and blow it. So we sat
Speaker 1: a long while and eventually, I mean's just like it
Speaker 1: was just horribly cold and finally got calm, and we
Speaker 1: start picking our way down to that damn deer and
Speaker 1: just freaking deer everywhere. We shouldn't left the blind man.
Speaker 1: We shouldn't left the blund You WoT this deer like
Speaker 1: across the field, biggest buck I saw, the old trip
Speaker 1: comes down across the thing. I don't want dog to
Speaker 1: get mad at me, So I mean, I could have
Speaker 1: taken a hail Mary out of that best. But we
Speaker 1: saw five deer when we moved. But wait, you said
Speaker 1: to me that you just passed on a passed the
Speaker 1: shooting opportunity on the top roebuck. No, I said, an
Speaker 1: almost top rollbuck, almost top roebuck. I'll pull down, Okay,
Speaker 1: I had passed made song like, hey there he was,
Speaker 1: Well he's not quite he was there. The deer was
Speaker 1: probably about a hundred and seventy yards away. I had arrest.
Speaker 1: He was in my crosshairs. He was between two trees
Speaker 1: with a big gap exposing his rib cage, his head
Speaker 1: sticking out the other side of the tree. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna tell you that. Like absolutely he was standing there
Speaker 1: for an hour feeding twenty yards away on public land.
Speaker 1: I would have touched off a shot at that bar. Uh. Well,
Speaker 1: and you had a better shot. We saw that same deer.
Speaker 1: That's that was an accurate And well, how can you
Speaker 1: not say anything? What do this? What do you what
Speaker 1: do you want me to say about it? That's what happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he was there not I mean, just like the whole
Speaker 1: general subject. But you give me an the impression that
Speaker 1: it was really fast, Like so now I get I
Speaker 1: get it now, I get it now. Okay, you had
Speaker 1: a better shot at that deer than I did. I
Speaker 1: saw him. I had a legitimate shot at the day,
Speaker 1: and I asked you. I asked you afterwards. I was like,
Speaker 1: did you have a shot? Did you have a shot?
Speaker 1: And you said yeah, But you thought Doug would be
Speaker 1: mad at you, so you didn't take it. You didn't
Speaker 1: think it was quite really tired of him playing that
Speaker 1: car that Doug will be mad at the first time
Speaker 1: I ever came to this farm. No, I've been in
Speaker 1: this farm seventies. Good. Okay, I've been in this farm
Speaker 1: seven times. Yeah, it's good. He didn't take that shot
Speaker 1: the first time farm. Okay. In this room where the
Speaker 1: buck racks are hanging, these bucks are all off this property,
Speaker 1: is that right? Yeah? Okay, these bucks are off anymore
Speaker 1: during the same time period. But yeah, and it's some
Speaker 1: guys buddies will come and shoot a buck, but then
Speaker 1: they want to take the thing home with him. So
Speaker 1: then dog just has a put a little photograph on
Speaker 1: the wall. Which, really, if I kill a buck here,
Speaker 1: m worthy of the room. It's gonna live in the room.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna take it home with me. But some
Speaker 1: guys will take it home and then you're here. Now
Speaker 1: you've got some pictures of bucks that aren't they belong here,
Speaker 1: that aren't even in here. Those two nailed to that
Speaker 1: tree there. I gather they're from here. They took him
Speaker 1: home with him. Yeah, so, yeah, I came here. I
Speaker 1: couldn't blame him for that. No, no no, I'm not blaming hi.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying the one of the one of the
Speaker 1: walls here has uh like thirteen buck racks on it,
Speaker 1: and there's what's called top rollbucks. So the not the
Speaker 1: bigger bucks are along the top row and he's got
Speaker 1: them all done. Were you in the old way? We
Speaker 1: used to cut a board a plaque out kind of
Speaker 1: half acidly shaped like an Indian arrowhead. Maybe is that
Speaker 1: was supposed to resemble. I just think those are different shapes.
Speaker 1: They're all the different, but they're kind of supposed to
Speaker 1: resemble an Indian narrowhead. Like the old way. You think
Speaker 1: it's a shield whatever the hell plaque, but but it's
Speaker 1: not a random shape. The amount of plaques and you
Speaker 1: do velvet or a skull cap. And I came here
Speaker 1: many many years ago, and Doug said, if you shoot
Speaker 1: a buck here, it should knock one of the bucks
Speaker 1: on the top row out, up shelf baby, top shelf buck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it just seems like the well, I don't want
Speaker 1: to get into my disappointment the last time that's happened
Speaker 1: that somebody's knocked one off the top last year. Last
Speaker 1: year I shot that, dear. So it's just it's just
Speaker 1: a way where um, it's a way to encourage it's
Speaker 1: it's a friendly way to encourage people to harvest dose
Speaker 1: and to encourage people to allow younger bucks to ask
Speaker 1: and let him grow bigger, having some kind of guideline.
Speaker 1: And because you're responding to the way you used to
Speaker 1: be in the old days right right that you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as I was telling Helen and Brittany, I couldn't have
Speaker 1: been prouder in the first buck that I shot, and
Speaker 1: it had one horn or one antler, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: we had one of our guys this weekend shooting with
Speaker 1: one antler. I'm not going to say his name. We
Speaker 1: found a dead one with one an We found a
Speaker 1: dead one with one antler up in the up in
Speaker 1: the up in the big woods by one of the stands.
Speaker 1: It's called the wet spot, and if Steve ever opens
Speaker 1: a bar, that's what I'm gonna name it. But that's
Speaker 1: a whole interesting story about the dead deer. But go
Speaker 1: on with what you're gonna say, uh and uh. What
Speaker 1: What this requ wres is to take enough time to
Speaker 1: look at a buck and these and say yeah, or
Speaker 1: that it was a good hunt or you know whatever.
Speaker 1: But you need to take that time and be willing
Speaker 1: that I didn't. I didn't have enough time, so he
Speaker 1: got a pass opening day. I didn't. We saw that
Speaker 1: same buck, and I didn't get a real good look
Speaker 1: at him. I think it was the same buck by
Speaker 1: the way we described him, the one that you saw.
Speaker 1: And I didn't get a real good look at him.
Speaker 1: But I could have thrown a shot at him. I
Speaker 1: mean I had a shot at him. I didn't have
Speaker 1: as good a shot as it sounds like that you did. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think I've said before that I'm never not
Speaker 1: taking a shot that I regretted. If I you know
Speaker 1: that sounds well, I've taken shots that I've regretted but
Speaker 1: I wish I wouldn't have taken. But I've never said no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take that shot. And then regretted
Speaker 1: it later. Really, yeah, I have that problem. Why didn't
Speaker 1: I take that shot? You never looked bad and go
Speaker 1: I should just taking the damn shot. No, I should
Speaker 1: have maybe taken a better shot. But speak to the
Speaker 1: to just try to quickly speak to what you're saying
Speaker 1: about the management, because because because you were saying a
Speaker 1: minute ago that that I keep saying that I didn't
Speaker 1: do X, Y or Z, because I've been trying to
Speaker 1: do some of the some of that. I've been trying
Speaker 1: to play along with some of the guidelines that you
Speaker 1: have on your property to try to encourage you. And
Speaker 1: I've been just really uh impressed this too strong word,
Speaker 1: but really happy with the fact that you have done that.
Speaker 1: Like not shooting the button bucks, Well, that's even even
Speaker 1: more impressive. I mean that is impressive. That's and the
Speaker 1: time to be able to look at him and go, okay,
Speaker 1: I mean you see a small deer you're looking at uh,
Speaker 1: you know, a small deer. A small buck looks different.
Speaker 1: Another button buck looks different than a doe fawn. Um
Speaker 1: Martin did the same thing today. He said, can I
Speaker 1: you know, should I shoot a fawn? And I said,
Speaker 1: is it a doll? And he goes yes, I said, yes,
Speaker 1: I should have said both of them and we would have.
Speaker 1: We still hurt. But the first of all, just as
Speaker 1: it was just a miss. But uh to take that
Speaker 1: time and go, okay, that's a small deer. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: make sure it's not a button buck um and I'm
Speaker 1: not convinced that. Uh well, anyway, I'm impressed by that,
Speaker 1: and the fact that, uh, you know, you you have
Speaker 1: the patients, you're you're taking the time, and you have
Speaker 1: the patients to do that. It probably helps to be hunt,
Speaker 1: you know, getting the opportunity to um hunting as many
Speaker 1: places that you do. Uh. So sometimes I try to
Speaker 1: cut some of my guys a little slack when I
Speaker 1: think about this is this is their hunt, this is it,
Speaker 1: you know. But now the other day I was commenting,
Speaker 1: we're kind of laughing about Dougs, the way that Doug
Speaker 1: wants to manage deer on his place and the things
Speaker 1: that prevent him from carrying that out and all the
Speaker 1: ways he'd like to. And I was saying, how some
Speaker 1: people have you know that like cartoon image of a
Speaker 1: person with a devil and an angel on their shoulders
Speaker 1: and like in their whispering these contradictory things and now
Speaker 1: saying that dog like essentially has two angels on his
Speaker 1: shoulders because one of the angels wants him to manage
Speaker 1: deer for like a good buck, to do ratio and
Speaker 1: allowing some bucks to get to you know, maturity and
Speaker 1: to grow big, healthy deer, and the other angels saying
Speaker 1: you should just let your friends have a good time. Man,
Speaker 1: just let him get it here. Yeah, and Doug granted
Speaker 1: that two. I've taken four friends here um for hunts,
Speaker 1: and each one of them they were all beginning beginner hunters,
Speaker 1: and each one of them got like any deer you
Speaker 1: are happy with, go ahead. And and they're not the
Speaker 1: only ones who have been other you know, first time hunters.
Speaker 1: Uh my nephew Jack here, you know, first time hunter
Speaker 1: happened to kill a very nice uh buck with it
Speaker 1: for his first year, My nephew, uh Sam, his first
Speaker 1: year here was a little spike. His second year was
Speaker 1: that big old hog in the corner over there. But
Speaker 1: I mean, so it's pretty big jump up. But uh so, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's not I shouldn't make it just about
Speaker 1: the horns. And I've had some discussions really recently with
Speaker 1: my neighbor. I don't think you make it just about
Speaker 1: the horns well, because like I think, the longer you're here,
Speaker 1: the longer I know you, or the longer you're involved
Speaker 1: with the program, the more it becomes about it and
Speaker 1: and and maybe it should or that I think that
Speaker 1: you ought to have a little more discretion the longer
Speaker 1: that you you know that you longer you've been here.
Speaker 1: But you know, everybody makes a mistake, but you know
Speaker 1: you kind of go, really, you made that mistake. Um,
Speaker 1: you know there was a mistake made on Saturday that
Speaker 1: I'm still not buying, you know. So he knows who
Speaker 1: he is. Um, uh no, he's not here, but he'll
Speaker 1: be listening to this. He sent me a picture of
Speaker 1: himself with the sombrero. Today we're in the sombrero because
Speaker 1: nobody put it on him and made him take pictures.
Speaker 1: So you think he was, you know, wanting to So
Speaker 1: you know, I did wear the sombrero and here's the picture.
Speaker 1: And my response to him in the text message was
Speaker 1: that should be your screen saver for the next year.
Speaker 1: Do you think about all this? I don't understand. How
Speaker 1: could you be like all the sun struck dumb. I'm
Speaker 1: not at all. There's just a lot of people here talking,
Speaker 1: and you know, I like to let everybody else get
Speaker 1: there words out. What's your thought on all? That's all.
Speaker 1: I'm a part of it, the Big Buck management. I
Speaker 1: wish more people did more of it. I tell you
Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is my dad and I were
Speaker 1: sitting around, well, first he came up and met the gals,
Speaker 1: and we were skinning in their box and we're looking
Speaker 1: at the antlers and he's like, oh, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like you know nice basketbacks, you know, two and a
Speaker 1: half year olds. I'm like, no, those bucks here are
Speaker 1: one and a half year olds, and they're probably one
Speaker 1: and a half year olds everywhere, but everybody thinks that
Speaker 1: they're two and a half year old. And I just
Speaker 1: think that, like across the board, everybody is shooting the
Speaker 1: here they think. I guess what I've learned is that
Speaker 1: bucks just don't even get a chance to make it
Speaker 1: to be two and a half. They just don't can
Speaker 1: just pass on like one year all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: You're just gonna see, like, so Steve had an interesting
Speaker 1: thought about that new management plans. I'm gonna copyright d Well,
Speaker 1: the way I understand it is you get everybody together,
Speaker 1: all the neighbors and everybody in the in the region
Speaker 1: that that you know you can reach out to and
Speaker 1: get to agree with, you know, some kind of management
Speaker 1: and have how many meetings. Well you go, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: invite them all to a luncheon. First, um luncheon. Luncheon,
Speaker 1: he said to not you know, for drinks or anything.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have a luncheon. And I just so anyway,
Speaker 1: and and you get everyone to agree that all we're
Speaker 1: shooting our nubs and year and a half holds. Yeah,
Speaker 1: any but any any any buck that has made it
Speaker 1: to two and a half years of age gets a pass. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know what you're doing. You're making a plan
Speaker 1: to have a great two thousand eighteen. Right. You're saying,
Speaker 1: any buck that is two and a half year old buck,
Speaker 1: we're gonna just have a moratorium killing those bucks, and
Speaker 1: in three years we're gonna have a bunch of five
Speaker 1: year old bucks running round. But instead people think that
Speaker 1: a management plan is to cease killing year and a
Speaker 1: half old bucks. And the problem with that plan. And
Speaker 1: I wonder if if you guys from Elroy, would agree
Speaker 1: with this that the problem with that plan is a
Speaker 1: year and a half old buck is gonna stay on
Speaker 1: your farm. He's gonna get moved out. He's gonna be
Speaker 1: then you're gonna get someone else's because where they're all going,
Speaker 1: it's not like an there's not like a new land
Speaker 1: being created. Well but yeah, yeah, but um that they're
Speaker 1: the ones that get. If you've got it, If you've
Speaker 1: got a two and a half year old buck, he's
Speaker 1: you know, you could get him to stay. Uh that
Speaker 1: buck over there that I shot last year, two and
Speaker 1: a half year old buck, d of you know, a
Speaker 1: hundred nine pointer big deer, two and a half year
Speaker 1: old buck. I shot him because he had a lake
Speaker 1: shot off. Well, i'd probably shot that deer anyway. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna say, well, I just shot him. That's you know,
Speaker 1: that's um. But we hunted him all day. He got
Speaker 1: was wounded, and we hunted him all day and then
Speaker 1: and I finally killed him and we took him down
Speaker 1: to him tested for c w D and the guy
Speaker 1: did the aging and he said, two and a half
Speaker 1: year old, I can't believe it. He couldn't. The guy
Speaker 1: who was doing the aging couldn't believe it. He sawt
Speaker 1: three and a half year old, and we had so
Speaker 1: when I started looking at even some of those top
Speaker 1: row bucks over there, well all those bottom row bucks
Speaker 1: are probably two and a half year olds. Um, but
Speaker 1: that group of four over there, those were were there
Speaker 1: was three year old, dear, I don't know. So the
Speaker 1: standard was aged at four and that was a hundred
Speaker 1: nine two inches a horn, you know, um and it
Speaker 1: was a huge deer. I mean, you look at that
Speaker 1: picture and how you know how big that deer is?
Speaker 1: You know, it sounds ridiculous on our podcast, but we
Speaker 1: talked about the standard before, so um so the whole
Speaker 1: aging of things and so then what about the rack
Speaker 1: and you know and what all that and you get
Speaker 1: all kind of tied up and all that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that idea that well, let's shoot the smaller ones. A
Speaker 1: guy um our our friend who was here to ony
Speaker 1: pal skill his cousin who I've had the occasion to
Speaker 1: meet and hang out with a little bit uh down
Speaker 1: by the Mineral Point area where they have some really
Speaker 1: big bucks down there. He said, I'd rather have a
Speaker 1: guy in our area shoot a year and a half
Speaker 1: old than a two and a half or three and
Speaker 1: a half year old, because us you're getting that you're
Speaker 1: gonna have that bigger buck. And they're all about big
Speaker 1: buck management, whereas I think you all have learned that
Speaker 1: what my management is about is trying to have a
Speaker 1: balance out there of what's the best thing for the
Speaker 1: for the ecosystem and the habitat for everything, and my
Speaker 1: oak trees, you know, and growing the oak trees, trying
Speaker 1: to regenerate those oak trees. So uh, buck management isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily in some areas, isn't about deer numbers. And what
Speaker 1: I could think our management is more more about deer numbers,
Speaker 1: and that's something we we took a big step forward
Speaker 1: in the last couple of days with a number of
Speaker 1: of dozes. But you made an interesting point. We were
Speaker 1: talking their day. We're kind of talk with this whole
Speaker 1: thing like me, you know, hunting for me, hunting for antlers,
Speaker 1: and how this all fits in and what it all
Speaker 1: means for everybody. And we're talking about a body of
Speaker 1: mine who came out a couple of years ago, and
Speaker 1: why don't shoot a buck? And shot a buck, shotty
Speaker 1: young buck, and then we uh roasted the buck's head
Speaker 1: antlers and everything just to get the head meat off
Speaker 1: it and then putting in the oven, ruin the antlers.
Speaker 1: Dug and I had I never thought about it, but
Speaker 1: Doug had a great point was if you can put
Speaker 1: the head in the oven, put a damn does head
Speaker 1: in the oven. But there's a thing about that, people
Speaker 1: want to shoot bucks. I think that it's two things.
Speaker 1: People want to shoot Bucks because culturally we're still responding
Speaker 1: to whim. We didn't have that many deer. It's been
Speaker 1: I don't know. We've had good numbers of deer, increasing
Speaker 1: numbers a deer for over fifty years now, Like I'm
Speaker 1: just talking in a national sense, a lot of deer um.
Speaker 1: I guess you know. The deer years were in the
Speaker 1: nineties and that was too many. Dear from from the
Speaker 1: way from many definitions. Definition not if all you want
Speaker 1: is dear, no, but forth from the looking at it
Speaker 1: from a perspective of highway safety, UM, agriculture, landscaping, forest regeneration,
Speaker 1: disease transmission. There's a lot of damn deer in the nineties.
Speaker 1: But people I still like, you don't shoot, And I've
Speaker 1: been trying to incourage you say something, But I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to fish the point. Trying to fish my point.
Speaker 1: People are still in this mindset that you don't shoot
Speaker 1: those because those make dear. You know a friend of
Speaker 1: mine Alaska, old guy, he feels like if you shoot
Speaker 1: a door, you should have your fingernails pulled out or worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there's that, And there's also the thing that like
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's it's manly to kill a buck, right,
Speaker 1: you just want to see, like whose dick is bigger. Basically, well,
Speaker 1: so that's what I want to know about because we've
Speaker 1: had talks about antlers with you two before. You know,
Speaker 1: I talked about it in my garage while you're following
Speaker 1: some mule the antlers off my wall there. So you guys,
Speaker 1: like what your thoughts on antlers are, and then like,
Speaker 1: do you guys feel any of that this weekend? Like
Speaker 1: you at all? Where you like, I kind of want
Speaker 1: to shoot a buck. My opinion was like I want
Speaker 1: to shoot the first thing that I see that I
Speaker 1: can get a good shot on, and then I want
Speaker 1: to shoot the next thing that I can that's whatever
Speaker 1: is the opposite of what I shot already. Because both
Speaker 1: not just out of like appreciation for opposites. Oh no,
Speaker 1: I mean I I guess I'm still you know, a
Speaker 1: new hunter. So I'm in the in the place where
Speaker 1: like I'll take whatever I can get, and to me
Speaker 1: like that buck is gonna taste much better than like
Speaker 1: a bagel, you know, older. But one thing about but here,
Speaker 1: I got a question. But there's nothing to keep in
Speaker 1: mind when you shoot a year and a half old buck.
Speaker 1: You can look at a buck hand like you see
Speaker 1: a buck run by. He's a spike, he's a forky
Speaker 1: like you just know he's a year and a half old.
Speaker 1: Let's he's got some kind of problem or broke his
Speaker 1: antlers off or something. But typically it's a safe assumption
Speaker 1: that that's what you're looking at. That's gonna be a
Speaker 1: great eating deer. To say that, like a dough is
Speaker 1: better eating you don't know, you might be shooting some
Speaker 1: eight year old dough. That's very true. But with a
Speaker 1: year and a half old buck, it's like you see
Speaker 1: that little spike rack coming through you like that's gonna
Speaker 1: be you know, it's a safe assumption that's a young deer.
Speaker 1: Those you don't know, right, But my point was, like
Speaker 1: I'm going to shoot it the first thing, the first
Speaker 1: opportunity that I get, and it's for in it that
Speaker 1: I got that smaller buck for me, because I think
Speaker 1: the meat is going to taste better. So how did
Speaker 1: it play out? Because you got two deer in one day? Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I don't know. So we saw a fair amount I
Speaker 1: mean fairly sporadically coming through. You couldn't have asked the
Speaker 1: deer to be spread out any better. We only saw
Speaker 1: sixteen or eighteen deer over the course of opening day.
Speaker 1: And I say only because in the Wisconsin guys, you
Speaker 1: see sixteen or eighteen deer, especially like in the early
Speaker 1: two thousand's, you'd see them in fifteen minutes, but in
Speaker 1: like bigger groups and people got used to that and
Speaker 1: so that was part of the problem. But anyway, but
Speaker 1: so the deer were kind of spaced out. I can't
Speaker 1: even replay it in my head. It would be interesting
Speaker 1: to see, but they were like one or two and
Speaker 1: we're like okay, you know, I'm like okay, Well, then
Speaker 1: what happened was we saw them go into this betting
Speaker 1: area and then all of us were staring in this
Speaker 1: one spot and then for whatever reason, out of the
Speaker 1: corner of my eye. I spotted something to my right
Speaker 1: and I look over and there's a buck that's like
Speaker 1: thirty yards away from us, just walking right in us.
Speaker 1: If like, you know, we weren't even there, and it
Speaker 1: was just it was like too much. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I like, I wasn't Yeah, you were not going to
Speaker 1: be able to pick up the tripod move it over,
Speaker 1: and that was not going to shoot it off hand,
Speaker 1: because it's just not there yet. You could at that distance,
Speaker 1: you probably could have John wayned it, but I don't
Speaker 1: think that would be very good. But no, but then
Speaker 1: he took off and then but yeah, that's how we
Speaker 1: sat there for a little while. And then, uh, I'll
Speaker 1: give Adam the credit for spotting the dope behind us
Speaker 1: that you know, we weren't really looking behind us. Every
Speaker 1: once in a while I look back there, but um,
Speaker 1: he spotted it and set up, and I remember like,
Speaker 1: you're like, come here, can here take the shot. I
Speaker 1: was like, I want to wait for it to like
Speaker 1: walk into my window. I'm going, oh my god, Okay,
Speaker 1: And then I look and I look at the deer
Speaker 1: in the binoculars and well, well it is just feed
Speaker 1: along in there. It was us yeah, And I would
Speaker 1: say about the guys who are with us, the camera operators,
Speaker 1: it's weird for someone who doesn't do it all the
Speaker 1: time to have people like that with you, and you
Speaker 1: get used to it pretty quick. I mean, we build
Speaker 1: a big ground blind so all four of us could
Speaker 1: be in there, and you think, God, I want to
Speaker 1: be sitting out here in the woods of four people
Speaker 1: for people, you know, twitching and making and are we
Speaker 1: gonna see anything? And first of all, those guys are
Speaker 1: really good at sitting still, and and Brittany was super
Speaker 1: good at sitting still. That was probably the twitchiest one
Speaker 1: in the blind. And so for there is that downside
Speaker 1: of having those people in there, but the upside of
Speaker 1: it is you do have more than just your eyes.
Speaker 1: And my eyes are getting worse all the time, so
Speaker 1: it is really nice to have the extra sets of eyes.
Speaker 1: Um and Adam saw it anyway. Yeah, so no, I
Speaker 1: was able to you know, wait, like get set up
Speaker 1: really well and wait for her to walk into my
Speaker 1: perfect window I had and then shot, and I mean
Speaker 1: she pretty much just just piled right up. So you
Speaker 1: got the dope before the buck. I knew that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the buck is the buck that ran that buck
Speaker 1: that just looked up and said, I'm gonna go back
Speaker 1: to browsing. That's the same Yeah, that's the same buck
Speaker 1: that ran away from us and ran over to you guys.
Speaker 1: Different buck, different buck. This buck came in from the north.
Speaker 1: Didn't come from you guys from the south. He looked
Speaker 1: very different. Oh we didn't. So yeah, buck comes in.
Speaker 1: Well that was so that was Sam drove him to us.
Speaker 1: That was a little bit. That was actually the only
Speaker 1: two hours. Yeah, so Sam Sam mooched moved him to
Speaker 1: us because he had already killed a buck. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: so we what we were, you know, I guess the
Speaker 1: way it went down was we knew that there were
Speaker 1: two bucks up there and maybe that dough and her
Speaker 1: fon potentially, and uh Sam said he was going to
Speaker 1: come and and mooch them to us, and kind of
Speaker 1: like you know, took a while, and so we were
Speaker 1: kind of like comming in home and we were all
Speaker 1: hungry and that maybe we'll go my dough and uh
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, maybe you went to the bathroom or
Speaker 1: like then go to the bathroom. I went over up
Speaker 1: next to a tree, so um, but yeah, I got
Speaker 1: up so right, No, that was Sam had uh been
Speaker 1: in contact with me, and he goes, well, I'll mooch
Speaker 1: that side hill and I said, well, you know, take
Speaker 1: your take your time. And I've lectured him so many
Speaker 1: times about doing it. And you say too fast, that
Speaker 1: you moved too fast. Well, we're waiting for quite a while,
Speaker 1: and then finally I know that he's he's through. He
Speaker 1: lets me know that he's through doing what he's doing,
Speaker 1: and at least I understood that to be the case.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, well another ten minutes. You know,
Speaker 1: we can have we're going to take care of the dough,
Speaker 1: or we'll have a sandwich and then we'll go and
Speaker 1: take care of the dough. And uh ten minutes goes by,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I'm gonna go peek. So I
Speaker 1: get up and walk down over the over to the
Speaker 1: designated pe area by our stand. How far were you guys?
Speaker 1: You're going pretty far away to pete. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a mixed blind. So I wanted to,
Speaker 1: you know, if we were here, because I was peeking
Speaker 1: pretty much out the back door. Where were you going?
Speaker 1: I didn't want to get overrun by deer, so you know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to pee for like how many yards were going? Well,
Speaker 1: she was going behind because I was in the tree
Speaker 1: stand behind guys all you guys were right down. She
Speaker 1: was the only you were going out. Even more, Martin
Speaker 1: couldn't see it from his little perch up there at
Speaker 1: the Yeah, shee deer back there. We did well, we
Speaker 1: and we had those doughs that ran through that valley.
Speaker 1: The first batch of dolls came up there that you
Speaker 1: couldn't You didn't see them. They were right on the
Speaker 1: trail behind this. So that's where you're pem back there.
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Brittany's, you know, because
Speaker 1: I was there and I could relive it now. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: So I don't know. It was like sort of a
Speaker 1: commotion because we saw it. Ridiculous. Yeah, ran out of
Speaker 1: the woods and that was like, I mean, they were gone.
Speaker 1: And then he ran out ran down into that little
Speaker 1: I guess ravine if there's a little ravine, and uh,
Speaker 1: Sam had come around the side hill and they've just
Speaker 1: been sunning themselves in that betting area on the other side.
Speaker 1: You guys may have you can see that betting, or
Speaker 1: he wouldn't. They'll see the deer and they came over,
Speaker 1: came down in the ravine and there because of where
Speaker 1: we set up the ground blind to have a better
Speaker 1: vantage point three sixty degrees, and we couldn't see that
Speaker 1: good over that side hill. And I'm done my business
Speaker 1: over there, and I turned around and came back, and
Speaker 1: I'm they're all going like this, and so I get
Speaker 1: over and what's going on. There's a buck in a
Speaker 1: dough and they're down on the hill over here. So well, okay,
Speaker 1: gets set up and you know she's and she had
Speaker 1: done most of that by the time I got there,
Speaker 1: but and boom, this deer just watched No no, no,
Speaker 1: but not about yet, but surprised. Here's this buck right
Speaker 1: in front of us. I mean he was really close
Speaker 1: to thirty or forty yards a little bit. No, not
Speaker 1: when you shot, not when you shot, but when he
Speaker 1: when he came up, and it's like, holy moly, he's
Speaker 1: just right there. And you know, she's taking her time
Speaker 1: getting set and that's kind of hard to do when
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, they just up. So
Speaker 1: she's trying to get set and he drots away. So
Speaker 1: I had my brother, my brother's old uh grunt, calling
Speaker 1: it bart and and he stops and turns around and
Speaker 1: see I'm doing the call there and he's coming back.
Speaker 1: I was really proud of that. And she's getting set
Speaker 1: again and taking a little time. Come on, the little
Speaker 1: the one angel on my shoulder was getting horns and
Speaker 1: the trigger and doesn't and then he starts trotting away again,
Speaker 1: and he turns around and looks, boy, am I good
Speaker 1: at I am so good at this? And he turns around.
Speaker 1: He's between these two trees, and she pulls the trigger
Speaker 1: and down he goes, and then the dough comes up.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, you know, he didn't want to leave
Speaker 1: the dough. I had nothing to do with my little calls.
Speaker 1: I suppose he thought maybe it was another buck coming
Speaker 1: for that though, but he wasn't going to go very
Speaker 1: far because she was still standing down just over the
Speaker 1: edge of the hill. So it kind of deflated my
Speaker 1: call her ego. Um, but we did have a little
Speaker 1: bit of a different experience with that deer than the first.
Speaker 1: And the first one just buckled up and I was dead.
Speaker 1: That one hit in the spine. So what did it do?
Speaker 1: I didn't die right away, um, but he, I guess
Speaker 1: kind of crawled and we went after him to go
Speaker 1: put him down again, and I was going to shoot it.
Speaker 1: I went over to you know, because it was one
Speaker 1: of those things, and she goes stuck, duck stop, I
Speaker 1: want to finish it. And so because I kind of
Speaker 1: just you know, my reaction was to run over to
Speaker 1: the deer and kill it. And so I stopped, and
Speaker 1: so she came over and was kind of getting real
Speaker 1: set to do it. The dear expired. I mean it
Speaker 1: was and it wasn't a minute. It was a few
Speaker 1: seconds really. That all happened very quickly. Yeah, but you
Speaker 1: felt terrible about it though, you know that you didn't
Speaker 1: make the perfect shot. When you guys get when you
Speaker 1: got your when you get your dear, do you feel
Speaker 1: like jumping up and down, hooting and hollering or do
Speaker 1: you like it? How like we're generally look kind of
Speaker 1: not a lot a whole lot of jumping around. It's
Speaker 1: still like a I don't know, for me, it's still
Speaker 1: like a feeling of like this like weird physical reaction
Speaker 1: that's not like wanting to jump up and down. But
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, it's like this weird like rib
Speaker 1: it regret. No, it's not like an emotional reaction. It's
Speaker 1: like a physical reaction. It's just like, h like just
Speaker 1: like this wave of energy that I like, I can't
Speaker 1: describe and I don't know how to like put into words,
Speaker 1: and I don't like definitely emotional in in a sense,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. It's still I'm still not able
Speaker 1: to It's I don't know, what would you say. When
Speaker 1: I walked up to that book, I think I still
Speaker 1: had a similar feeling of when I killed that elk.
Speaker 1: Was just kind of a loss for words. But it
Speaker 1: was weird this time because back to the Antwin thing,
Speaker 1: I think I looked at and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: those are really cool, you know. Um, but yeah, there,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a sense of loss. So you're it's
Speaker 1: not you feel bad because you know that you know
Speaker 1: that you're you're going to do this animal right, and
Speaker 1: you know, but you know, you just took this animal's
Speaker 1: life that you just saw walking these like beautiful creatures
Speaker 1: you just saw, you know, through your scope very close up,
Speaker 1: and then you see it dead on the ground, so
Speaker 1: it's very you know, and then after that you're like
Speaker 1: pulling its guts out, so it's just very It's it's
Speaker 1: hard to explain experience coming out to me like honestly,
Speaker 1: maybe more shocked because like I think I was telling
Speaker 1: you honest the next day, like I it wasn't until
Speaker 1: I was like in bed along with my own thoughts
Speaker 1: that I really kind of processed like how kind of
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, sad that I felt for the deer
Speaker 1: and and like and I was just even taking too
Speaker 1: deer in one day. There was like part of me
Speaker 1: that was like, man, like was that gratuitous to take
Speaker 1: to kill two animals in one day? Like you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. It was just like it's still sort
Speaker 1: of new where I'm still sort of trying to define,
Speaker 1: like you know what my hunting experience is going to be,
Speaker 1: Like you know, yeah, I feel that that kind of
Speaker 1: regret for something, but I have a hard time of
Speaker 1: feeling it for deer because I feel that dear. I
Speaker 1: think of deer almost more in the in the vegetable world.
Speaker 1: I think of there they're there's they're not that old.
Speaker 1: Um in large measure, they are they they live as
Speaker 1: a result of people. Um it's our habits are practices
Speaker 1: of clearing the land, industrial agriculture. Um it allows some
Speaker 1: many deer to exist. You know, we have far more
Speaker 1: deer now than than during Columbus's time. So when you
Speaker 1: when you when you take it dear his life, I
Speaker 1: feel like it's some way like it's not take You're
Speaker 1: not like takeing on this like you gave it to
Speaker 1: him anyways, do you know what I mean? Some of
Speaker 1: like like from a people's perspective, a truly wild thing
Speaker 1: that gets old, like when like when you kill a doll,
Speaker 1: like a doll ram, a doll sheep ram. He's probably
Speaker 1: a minimum of eight. He's not gonna be in the
Speaker 1: older than twelve, but he's going to be at least eight.
Speaker 1: And he's never seen a person before, you know, So
Speaker 1: that feels different to me. That feels like you've stepped
Speaker 1: in and undone something. You know. But then and then
Speaker 1: and the other side of it is that you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: these do you have seen people? So then you almost
Speaker 1: start thinking like, oh, did this this year knew I
Speaker 1: was gonna kill? You know, like it felt that pressure.
Speaker 1: I mean the buck that I shot in particular, I
Speaker 1: don't think did, but no, that's what I like, That
Speaker 1: buck had no idea. I wait that like that's the
Speaker 1: thing that's the whole other thing you can do. Like
Speaker 1: people go like if you just categorize just antlers, antlers
Speaker 1: is all that matters. Big buck equals good, no matter
Speaker 1: how you got it. You know, I don't know many
Speaker 1: people that actually subscribe to that, but there's plenty to do,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. But to me, I think you be. I
Speaker 1: think you should add in some other factors. The deer
Speaker 1: had no idea, completely unaware of your presence feeding away.
Speaker 1: That's worth something. You know, if it's a giant buck
Speaker 1: staring at you as you get out of your truck
Speaker 1: and and roll down the window so you can rest
Speaker 1: your rifle over the edge of the window frame, is
Speaker 1: that more valuable because it's a bigger buck. No way.
Speaker 1: But the size also, I think has something to do
Speaker 1: with it, because we want squirrel hunting. A couple of
Speaker 1: days ago, and I did definitely didn't have I mean
Speaker 1: I definitely felt a little bad and kind of again
Speaker 1: the sense of loss of it. You know, I just
Speaker 1: took this animal's life. But I did not have the
Speaker 1: same feeling as when I came up to the deer
Speaker 1: or came up to the elk, which is weird because
Speaker 1: it shouldn't, you know, you're still taking animal's life. But
Speaker 1: for some reason, the size, I mean a size size
Speaker 1: plays I agree, size plays into it. The all thing
Speaker 1: is the thing I think when I hunt squirrels is
Speaker 1: they're so fecund. A female, like a mature female man,
Speaker 1: you can put off I don't know, sixteen of them
Speaker 1: in the year, a two year old squirrels ancient? Yeah,
Speaker 1: can I ask you a question on this subject, just
Speaker 1: like in hunting for how many years now? Do you
Speaker 1: have a ritual of when you take in dear's life?
Speaker 1: Of what you do in the next five minutes, ten minutes? Oh,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear that answer. But prior to that,
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Speaker 1: Meat Now, Doug, your ritual do you have one? Don't
Speaker 1: bullshit us. I used to more than I do now. Uh.
Speaker 1: The feeling that Helen and Brittany were both describing is
Speaker 1: probably more. Uh, I probably feel it more now than
Speaker 1: I used to, where I kind of, I don't want
Speaker 1: to say, forced myself, but felt like I should have
Speaker 1: a ritual. UM. So now when I shoot an animal, UM,
Speaker 1: it tends to be you know, I'm usually alone, so
Speaker 1: it just tends to be uh, more of a longer,
Speaker 1: quiet moment of like feeling at all. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: if that's the ritual, that's the ritual. I mean I
Speaker 1: used to. I mean I just sit there and look
Speaker 1: at the animal. I pad it. I you know that,
Speaker 1: but there's nothing you know specific. It's more of a
Speaker 1: UM the feeling that I have that um, it's hard
Speaker 1: to describe. I think a lot of it. You have
Speaker 1: to UM, if there is a ritual or or a
Speaker 1: set of things you go through, I think you have
Speaker 1: steps you need to take that remind you to do it.
Speaker 1: Like the same way as if someone you've never met
Speaker 1: walks into the door, you might in the back of
Speaker 1: your head it might be like, oh man, I better
Speaker 1: stand up and shake the guy's hand. You know, you
Speaker 1: become you remind yourself of your obligation. It might not
Speaker 1: always happen. Actually, like you sometimes are being like, oh,
Speaker 1: I better do X right right. You see someone drop
Speaker 1: their driver's license in the airport, you know he'd be like,
Speaker 1: I better picked that up and go run into the person.
Speaker 1: Not that you just instinctively automatically do everything you're supposed
Speaker 1: to do. I find myself now and then saying, you
Speaker 1: know what, you better just take a minute to recognize
Speaker 1: what's going on. You know it does. It doesn't always
Speaker 1: happen without me going like, you know what, like the
Speaker 1: moment deserves some the moment deserves acknowledgement. Do you find
Speaker 1: that it happens with certain animals and not others? Bears?
Speaker 1: It's real hard for me with bears, dear, like whitetail dear. Um.
Speaker 1: I have to remind myself, did you did you ever
Speaker 1: cry taking a life? No? Never, I've seen it happen
Speaker 1: so many times. Never. But I started hunting I was
Speaker 1: so young. It's like I I missed all these you know,
Speaker 1: I missed all these things. I think so oftentimes when
Speaker 1: I've taken people out and have them get their first
Speaker 1: animal and they have their you know that they're overwhelmed
Speaker 1: with some motion. I just see that's something that I
Speaker 1: probably would have been the same way. But I just
Speaker 1: I was young, you know, and it was an accomplishment.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I remember about shooting my first dear.
Speaker 1: I was fourteen, and I accomplished. I did that, and
Speaker 1: I was really proud of it and excited and all
Speaker 1: of that. But this is maybe a weird comparison. But
Speaker 1: I still the cow on Monday, and I felt bad
Speaker 1: putting her on the trailer. I mean, you know, I
Speaker 1: speak about acknowledging it. I mean I talked to her
Speaker 1: the whole time as we were putting her on, and
Speaker 1: you know, I knew where she's gonna, know where she's going,
Speaker 1: and you know, through no fault of her own, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, she had a medical problem that wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: get fixed, and so this is what happens. Um. So
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just getting a little more reflective in my
Speaker 1: old age or something, but um, I used to be, Uh.
Speaker 1: I used to have a real ritual where i'd actually,
Speaker 1: you know, talked to the animal and all that, and
Speaker 1: I don't, Uh, there's a lot of things that go
Speaker 1: through my head even while this hall went on, uh
Speaker 1: with Brittany. Uh, I'm thinking to myself, Okay, well I'm
Speaker 1: excited for um, I'm thinking about my management program. And
Speaker 1: she took a you know, the dough first and and
Speaker 1: that's helping that and this place produced that, and you know,
Speaker 1: here's another person who's doing this now and all that's
Speaker 1: going on at the same time. And um. Then when
Speaker 1: we got over there, I just kind of stood back
Speaker 1: and you know, sort of watched or let her have
Speaker 1: her time with the with the whole thing. And UM,
Speaker 1: I thought about that too, you know, like, okay, well
Speaker 1: you know what, as you said, you think about it,
Speaker 1: what did I you know, what do I do when
Speaker 1: when I do this? Um? When you asked me that question,
Speaker 1: I looked up at that deer and that was just
Speaker 1: a whole Uh. When I killed that deer last year,
Speaker 1: that deer had to be killed. I mean that was
Speaker 1: that was sort of the thing. So I was finishing
Speaker 1: a job, you know, and that was so that was
Speaker 1: a whole different you know, emotion and and there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of other people around, because a bunch of other
Speaker 1: people there are three other people around, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about it, but I mean it wasn't like
Speaker 1: give it. It's a little moment or something. But anyway, yeah,
Speaker 1: well I had the same experience today where with those doughs, right,
Speaker 1: because I looked back and I saw those doughs and
Speaker 1: they were little, and they're how old was the dough?
Speaker 1: What do you think? Like six months? Yeah? It was little.
Speaker 1: And I looked at it and I looked, there's two
Speaker 1: of them, and I saw him and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's a small animal. Compared to the elk I shot,
Speaker 1: you know about ago. It was tiny. And my first
Speaker 1: reaction was those things are gonna go. I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: him walk. And then I texted you and I said
Speaker 1: should I shoot these little doughs? Should shoot a fun
Speaker 1: And I do? And I said yeah because I had
Speaker 1: already looked because I was I was really focused on,
Speaker 1: you know, having my binoculars, making sure that they didn't
Speaker 1: have little buttons on them. And you said yeah. I
Speaker 1: didn't say yeah, I didn't. Yes, I said kill it.
Speaker 1: You said kill it. That was your response. And from
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, well, I had this reaction
Speaker 1: to this little dough, but I'm part of this management
Speaker 1: plan for Doug's farm, and at that point I was
Speaker 1: like all right, I'm gonna take that thing, and so
Speaker 1: I shot it. But then when I got there, then
Speaker 1: it turned back to not Dougs management plan, and my
Speaker 1: own experience was taking that life and it became an
Speaker 1: entirely different thing again. So it's a very interesting like
Speaker 1: back and forth of no, I'm gonna let it walk,
Speaker 1: No I'm gonna kill it. I'm having this experience with it,
Speaker 1: you know, and all that. What is it that makes
Speaker 1: people want to let that makes people want to let
Speaker 1: a fawn walk? Other than that you don't want to that,
Speaker 1: you want to get the maximum yield of meat off
Speaker 1: your tag? Is it like preserving innocence somehow? Like the
Speaker 1: older dear guilty of something? And yeah, that's a really
Speaker 1: interesting question. Yeah, there was something like that today. Was
Speaker 1: like I looked at those things, was like that is
Speaker 1: so small, Like it seems like they were so close
Speaker 1: at the first shot that I had at him was
Speaker 1: like forty ft because they crept up behind the deer
Speaker 1: behind the stand, and it was like wow, I like
Speaker 1: that's like too easy. I was like, what is mom
Speaker 1: gonna walk around the corner? Like I should take a
Speaker 1: bigger dough, you know, have more meat. Yeah, that I
Speaker 1: can understand. The first elk I killed the boat. I
Speaker 1: killed a calf with my boat, and the whole time
Speaker 1: out elk countin for took a few years before I
Speaker 1: got one, and I finally get one, and I thought, like,
Speaker 1: when you get to elk, you're eating big. Oh year,
Speaker 1: it's like here's this thing, you know, you know? Get Yeah,
Speaker 1: you almost two pounds, and I will say once Doug
Speaker 1: was like kill it. My next thought was when we
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot during elk camp, right, is
Speaker 1: when you see that animal on day one and you
Speaker 1: ask yourself the question of do I want meat in
Speaker 1: the freezer at the end of this hunt? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: if the question if the answer is yes, then you
Speaker 1: shoot that animal on day one and your hunt is done. Right,
Speaker 1: and don't pass up. How's it going? Yeah, No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Was it your thing or not your thing? Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not my original thing. Don't pass up on the first day.
Speaker 1: What you'd be happy to have on the whatever? Ten
Speaker 1: So and I thought to myself, I'd love to have that.
Speaker 1: I'd love to have that meet in the freezer. I
Speaker 1: wasking about it completely from the standpoint, well not completely,
Speaker 1: but much from the standpoint of if you kill a
Speaker 1: dope font you just took a huge step in the
Speaker 1: management of you know, reducing the herd right here. Oh absolutely,
Speaker 1: and that's why that's why I said kill it, and
Speaker 1: had you said kill it. And by the way, I
Speaker 1: need one too, and we can party hunt kill the
Speaker 1: other one that was with it. And as soon as
Speaker 1: I saw you and you were like, yeah, the mom
Speaker 1: probably got hild there was two fonds left. You were
Speaker 1: doing that animal of favor because like they may not
Speaker 1: have made the winner. You know, who knows there are
Speaker 1: two little fonds is like we could have just taken both.
Speaker 1: And that went out there all by itself. Yeah, lonely,
Speaker 1: I know, right, a little lonesome animal. Anyway, it was
Speaker 1: an interesting back and forth, you know that whole thing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and and so I mean you all did, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, did good work in the management plan. I
Speaker 1: need to well, Helen, just not me like it just
Speaker 1: fine work in the management plan. Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: we took a number of what did we take We
Speaker 1: took twelve deer eight does uh? And uh that's a
Speaker 1: big deal. But that doesn't diminish you know, the life
Speaker 1: of the animal or anything like that. But there's a
Speaker 1: certain matter of factness about it that you have to
Speaker 1: have or you're not gonna You're not gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're sitting there getting all emotional about it.
Speaker 1: So it reminds me of the thing that you said
Speaker 1: to Uh, that Steve said to the to the vegan
Speaker 1: when you had the Uh confronted, but when you had
Speaker 1: that discussion with him, that that book signing that's on
Speaker 1: on YouTube and stuff, you said, Um, I know more
Speaker 1: about dear or I care more about dear than you
Speaker 1: ever will. And it may not have to do I
Speaker 1: may not care as much about an individual dear but
Speaker 1: about deer in general. And I'm totally hacking it up.
Speaker 1: But the idea of dearness, yeah, there are and there's
Speaker 1: lots of them, and so, uh, I don't know that
Speaker 1: I could go out and kill a doll sheep. I
Speaker 1: couldn't go cut a redwood tree. And I know guys,
Speaker 1: you know, I know other guys who do it every day.
Speaker 1: I can go and kind a hundred fifty year old
Speaker 1: oak tree because it's time for it to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to saw a redwood. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know, so it says that, but if I lived
Speaker 1: around him and knew about him, I might and that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I feel like an interloper. So all of that
Speaker 1: is a part of the thought process, that and the
Speaker 1: emotions and everything that go with it. For me, that
Speaker 1: was another big thing today. The best past couple of
Speaker 1: days was more than anything, I felt like I learned
Speaker 1: a lot about deer, you know, just watching them and
Speaker 1: seeing how they behave, the stop and go miss of them,
Speaker 1: how they interest, they can run silently, they can through
Speaker 1: the woods and you don't hear. Yeah. I thought about
Speaker 1: that quote to actually when I was sitting they're just
Speaker 1: learning more about deer. I was like, Okay, if you
Speaker 1: want to hunt them, you have to know how they move,
Speaker 1: how they you know, how they behave with you know.
Speaker 1: That's got it. That's the that That's a thing that
Speaker 1: baffles me about people who um are perplexed by hunting
Speaker 1: is that they think that you have animal that they
Speaker 1: think hunters have animosity towards animals. People who have animosity
Speaker 1: towards animals are horrible hunters you never will get you
Speaker 1: never get good at it, or are serial killers. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like the asp that oh you like to hunt
Speaker 1: and kill animals because you somehow like violence on animals.
Speaker 1: But be like the people I know who are really
Speaker 1: good at hunting really become students of animals. They love
Speaker 1: to be around them. That's such a weird statement to me. Well,
Speaker 1: it's sucking it's out there, um, but here, let's do this.
Speaker 1: Helm was your concluding thoughts. No, you know what, Let's
Speaker 1: go clockwise like we're dealing poker, like we're dealing ker Johnny,
Speaker 1: Can I ask the question for my clinica? Yeah? Man,
Speaker 1: you want to want Helen to uh span on the
Speaker 1: hurt the antlers or just the answer whether or not
Speaker 1: you're thinking about it at all. Were you right there
Speaker 1: with Brittany just just thinking I just need to kill
Speaker 1: the first animal I get a shot at, you asked?
Speaker 1: Steve asked that question earlier, and instinctively I said, yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. But I think once we started looking
Speaker 1: at them, I was like, I think it'd be cool
Speaker 1: to have because I already, you know, I had shot
Speaker 1: a cow elk before, and I was like, I think
Speaker 1: it would be cool to to maybe shoot a book
Speaker 1: or just seeing them more. I think the first time
Speaker 1: I kind of looked at the scope, and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it. Was when we were glassing for elk
Speaker 1: in Montana and we were spotting mule deer and you'd
Speaker 1: be like, oh, wow, that's a huge mule deer and
Speaker 1: I didn't really it just didn't click for me. There
Speaker 1: was nothing about it that was that was that made
Speaker 1: me want to shoot that animal more than another animal,
Speaker 1: or maybe you want to have that animal, you know,
Speaker 1: on my wall or anything like that. And then Jane
Speaker 1: when we're at Janes's house butchering the elk, and he
Speaker 1: was showing me, you know, some of his animers that
Speaker 1: he had in his garage, you know, and I think
Speaker 1: once you hold them in your hand, you're just kind
Speaker 1: of there's something about them that that are definitely magical.
Speaker 1: And you know, even sitting in this room, you're like,
Speaker 1: it makes you want to one day, you know, to
Speaker 1: bug that could potentially be on the top shelf. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I really didn't get it before. It was
Speaker 1: not something that was interesting to me because it was
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, in Yi's garage and then you had
Speaker 1: affirmation here in Wisconsin. Yeah, because the way we got
Speaker 1: into hunting was because you know, through the meat aspect,
Speaker 1: through the eating aspect of it. You know. That's why
Speaker 1: for me, broadside, it is the only shot I'm comfortable
Speaker 1: with right now because I know that if I shoot
Speaker 1: it through the lungs or shoot it through the heart
Speaker 1: or something like that, then it's you know, the least
Speaker 1: amount of waste meat wise, like I'd rather not if
Speaker 1: the animals facing me and there's potential that it it
Speaker 1: could you know, the whole damn thing to go off
Speaker 1: the back ham. Yeah, and like that's what's the point,
Speaker 1: you know, And you did land just the perfect heart shot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was very happy about that. But excellent, Mark Smith,
Speaker 1: until I clean missed the Yeah, and you could have
Speaker 1: another if you don't want to have your complute question.
Speaker 1: I was very interested. You're some far atnight? Hell was
Speaker 1: your concluding thought? Blocks? Blocks, He's looking really tired. Nothing.
Speaker 1: I just, um, I'm excited to finally be here. It
Speaker 1: feels kind of surreal being here after working on the
Speaker 1: show for a while, and you know, seeing the famed
Speaker 1: doctor where it's famed. But yeah, I guess on the
Speaker 1: show and now huh oh, I thought she said shamed,
Speaker 1: thank you for having us on, you know, on your farm,
Speaker 1: And it was a really cool experience to get a
Speaker 1: different kind of hunting. Um, you know, is there. I
Speaker 1: feel like it's so different from the first hunt that
Speaker 1: we've done, and um, equally as fun and equally as challenging,
Speaker 1: you know, in a different way. So Brittany, yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I mean I was again like echoing when Helen just said,
Speaker 1: stoked to finally meet Doug durn and was the first time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: go hunting together. Um, but I was also excited to
Speaker 1: even though we really didn't see a damn thing. I
Speaker 1: was super excited to hunt with Helen for the first time.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about that because we don't talk about
Speaker 1: squirrels either. Man, girls were so much fun. Actually that
Speaker 1: skinning squirrels is the worst part. But no, I was
Speaker 1: excited to hunt with Helen. We although we we had
Speaker 1: a very um an unsuccessful rabbit hunt in Montana where
Speaker 1: he basically threw rocks at trees and kicked up bushes
Speaker 1: and stuff. But that but this is our first time
Speaker 1: and we like didn't kill each other. Just sitting in
Speaker 1: the blind all day and not not seeing anything. We
Speaker 1: had a great time. It was a lot of fun
Speaker 1: because you guys logged the whole day just together, yeah,
Speaker 1: and didn't see anything till the last minute, and we
Speaker 1: were like, we're a pretty good team for like beginners,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, I mean a little slow on
Speaker 1: like trying to figure out if it was a buck
Speaker 1: or dough. And in the end she didn't take the
Speaker 1: shot because we were in a hundred percent sure and
Speaker 1: we were losing light and you thought it had spots.
Speaker 1: It was sparker then then the ones that we had
Speaker 1: seen the day before. Probably I had hoped that, Hm,
Speaker 1: you know, I've done this before with you guys, not
Speaker 1: with you two, but uh, you know, so this is
Speaker 1: my third time hosting or whatever it is, said hey
Speaker 1: do here, and uh, you know, I've always tried to
Speaker 1: have the atitude of we're just gonna do what we do.
Speaker 1: And uh, I guess now I understand it's kind of
Speaker 1: how it's done. And I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: you guys get what it is that you want. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that I was reminded of during
Speaker 1: this the last few days was what we want is
Speaker 1: to come and experience what it is that you guys
Speaker 1: do here and um and you know, and let that
Speaker 1: story tell itself. And the other part was taking uh,
Speaker 1: Brittany and to a lesser degree, Helen hunting. Um, not
Speaker 1: knowing Brittany other than some email exchanges and stuff that
Speaker 1: we worked on and you know together and you know,
Speaker 1: contact through the other shows and whatnot. But okay, So
Speaker 1: Eleanor's my daughter has gone hunting with me a couple
Speaker 1: of times, but she's not shot. She just you know,
Speaker 1: goes along and and creeps through the woods with me
Speaker 1: and stuff. And so I wondered how I was gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, handle I wonder what was gonna be like
Speaker 1: with you know, having a woman in the in the
Speaker 1: blind and and guy, she's gonna get all emotional if
Speaker 1: she shoots something and that. Um. And so it was
Speaker 1: a really interesting experience for me too. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: on the front end, you wonder about, well, what are
Speaker 1: you hoping to get out of this and what are
Speaker 1: you or what's this gonna be like for you? And UM.
Speaker 1: Once again, it's just a great experience to have you
Speaker 1: all here. Those of you have been here before, and
Speaker 1: really wonderful to have those of you who are here
Speaker 1: for the first time. And I just feel really lucky
Speaker 1: that uh one that um, for whatever reason, we've all
Speaker 1: got to meet and do this together, and that I
Speaker 1: feel really uh, it's been really wonderful to be able
Speaker 1: to share this piece of property and everything that goes
Speaker 1: with it with you all too. So that's my concluding thought.
Speaker 1: It's a good one. Thank you, Mating. I'm gonna teach
Speaker 1: I'm not teaching our Latvian trick because we learned blouch.
Speaker 1: If I'm talking to mating, I say mating. If I'm
Speaker 1: talking about matting, I say, my teach seven different conjugations
Speaker 1: of the really, so I put in use right now,
Speaker 1: I'll say, Mating, would you like to do your concluding thoughts?
Speaker 1: Then that turned slightly to Doug, and I say, Doug,
Speaker 1: my teach, it's gonna do his concluding thoughts indeed. And
Speaker 1: I turned a Dug and say, Doug, thank you for
Speaker 1: having us and allowing me to shoot my first supply tail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll be part of part of that. So I appreciate
Speaker 1: that that was cool too. To be able to take
Speaker 1: out Chris, um, it was with me all, you know,
Speaker 1: the whole time. And the ridge pounder pounder, ridge pound
Speaker 1: a k A ridge pounder a K A cameraman for me, yeah, um.
Speaker 1: And and to be able to go in hunt also,
Speaker 1: and I just you know, it just sort of expanded
Speaker 1: the experience sort of in a way that, um, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can do that too, can't we. These guys are
Speaker 1: like down there and getting a license yesterday when I
Speaker 1: said something about yeah and off they went, So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was cool. Is that your entire concluding thought? That
Speaker 1: wasn't no, I was gonna say that, Um, I'm still
Speaker 1: only six. I didn't start hunting as young as my
Speaker 1: brother did, and so I'm only six kills in to
Speaker 1: my hunting career and I still cried be elk five
Speaker 1: of them being yeah, two cows, three bulls, and now
Speaker 1: one little dough in Wisconsin, and I still cry every time.
Speaker 1: And it's like it is such a experience of being
Speaker 1: close to God for me that it's really really powerful,
Speaker 1: and so I'm thankful that I got to do it here.
Speaker 1: Um it's cool to do coming out here is nice
Speaker 1: to I wander around a lot and go to a
Speaker 1: lot of places, but it's nice to have like a
Speaker 1: spot like this where you kind of come in and
Speaker 1: and uh gain sort of like a more intimate familiarity
Speaker 1: with something. And I've been here a bunch now, Um
Speaker 1: in somebody that reminds me a lot of growing up.
Speaker 1: I grew up where we hunted a couple of farms
Speaker 1: about the size of this farm. Um, and did all
Speaker 1: of our squirrel hunting there, did all our deer hunting there,
Speaker 1: not all, but a ton of it on these two places.
Speaker 1: And in those places kind of dissolved away. Um, the
Speaker 1: patriarchs that you know there was in that area, like
Speaker 1: the the just the generational change, like you have these
Speaker 1: farmers and then they raised their families there, but then
Speaker 1: they're dead. There wasn't enough farming to support all the
Speaker 1: kids farming, and so the kids went on to do
Speaker 1: other things, you know, and then when the dad died,
Speaker 1: the farms has changed. It became like more like recreational
Speaker 1: areas and not working farms, and uh, that kind of
Speaker 1: went away, you know, Like you're on one hand, the
Speaker 1: old man farmer guy, I didn't really care. You're more
Speaker 1: than welcome to come out front of the family, and
Speaker 1: other people got where why would I have you out here?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm always joking with you by he shouldn't
Speaker 1: let anybody else hunt. You're not joking. So um, it
Speaker 1: is nice to have like a farm to come to
Speaker 1: and and and see that you know that chunk of
Speaker 1: ground evolve over time. Yeah, I completely understand that. And
Speaker 1: the idea that you get that, Yeah, that you've been
Speaker 1: here enough now that when I say something about an
Speaker 1: area or we're talking, you know, you're wherever you are
Speaker 1: and I'm here or somewhere else, and we can talk
Speaker 1: about the farm and I can say, well, you know
Speaker 1: that spot by the or you'll say you know that
Speaker 1: spot by the And that's pretty cool, all right, Thanks Tuna, dude,