1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: It's it's could happen here? That's the podcast that this is. 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: It's about things crumbling and uh, how to maybe uncrumble 3 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: some of the things that are crumbling. And today when 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: we think about the crumbles, when you start thinking about 5 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: the hell world that that we're all increasingly inhabiting, the 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: scary ship that is getting scarier day by day. Number 7 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: one on a lot of people's list is gonna be 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: the cops. Um real cause of anxiety for a significant 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: chunk of people listening to this podcast right now, including 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: its hosts Um Alexander, you and I have chatted before 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: on the air. Our guest today, Alexander Williams, Um, you 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: were a police officer in the past and you are 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: not currently and you want to chat about Um. The 14 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: topic kind of the way you pitched it to us 15 00:00:56,440 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: is there's a lot of aspects of police training that 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: are very similar to what colts do to indoctrinate people, 17 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: and you kind of wanted to speak on that. Yeah, 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of cross sections. UM. So, yeah, 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I used to be a cop. I was in law 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: enforcement for just shot a fifteen years until I woke 21 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: up and got out luckily, and all the stuff that's 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: been going on over the last couple of years, and 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: the craziness and really ingesting a lot of stuff around, 24 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: you know, cults, And I've started going down that the 25 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: little checklist that you go down of like are you 26 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: in a high control group? And man, they all just 27 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: look just deemed in my head every single time of like, oh, 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: this is exactly what it was like being a cop. Oh, 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: this is exactly what it was like being a cop. 30 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: And I'm curious, kind of before we get more into it, 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: do you want to walk us through a little bit 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: more kind of what was your process of Um. I 33 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: don't de radicalization isn't exactly the right term, but I 34 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: think you know what I'm getting. It's it's in the 35 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: it's in the it's in the neighborhood Shore. Yeah. Mine. 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: So I was raising a cop family. My dad was 37 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: a copy, went the whole nine yards, retirement, the whole thing. 38 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: And when I got into it, just shy of twenty 39 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: two years old, which that's young to be making those 40 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: kinds of choices looking back on it. Um. We had 41 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: talked on the last podcast of your season one, UM 42 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,559 Speaker 1: about when my brother got arrested and got beat by 43 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: my own team. My my own crew, and the jail 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,079 Speaker 1: that I worked with, which is the jails is where 45 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: I primarily spent most of my time. And I think 46 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: that that was ah item number one kind of on 47 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: my shelf, like people call it, that's that's that's a 48 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: big one to right on the shelf. Um. And during 49 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: my training, I've always been an obstinate little bastard and 50 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: I've always had that kind of like authority defiance. And 51 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: in training they say start telling you really early, like hey, 52 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: you know what you know where your family? We understand you, 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna get you. And then like the language even 54 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: then kind of flared red flags wrong for me. And 55 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: whenever a group of people says we're your family, and 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: so right, like that's what you like, we're your family 57 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: and you can talk to us anytime. Fine, where your family? 58 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: And I got your back. Fine, we're your family, and 59 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: that's why you need to do this. Things have gone 60 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: to ride. It's it's it usually is where your family? 61 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: Comma now? Yeah? Yeah, and yes, So that that was 62 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: like literally day one, it was where your family? Now, 63 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: where you're you know, they use all that language. The 64 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: familiar language where your brothers, your sisters. Yeah, And the 65 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: one that kicked for me and my brain was they said, 66 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: within a year, you're not gonna have any friends that 67 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: aren't cops. Like all of your friends are going to 68 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: be gone because they're not going to understand you and 69 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to be around you 70 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: and handle you. So within a year, you know, we're 71 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: going to be everything you've got. And for me, that 72 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: was like that was a line in the sand, and 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: like part of my brain was screaming like, nope, never 74 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: letting that happen. I will not let my uh myself 75 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: not have any non cop friends. Yeah, that's probably good 76 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: because that's I mean, you have like when it it 77 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: gets to it's the same thing that happens to anybody, right, 78 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: like some people got like last year in Portland and 79 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: activist Brain, where there was this all the people were 80 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: spending time with other people were out protesting, and so 81 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: we have this really intense bond and we also are 82 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: kind of separated, increasingly separated from the people around us 83 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: because we just can't communicate with anybody else. And that 84 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: kind of going on for years and years because this 85 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: is your career for twenty something years, and it's like, yeah, 86 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: that would you'd be, you'd be after a couple of 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: years of that you were inhabiting a different planet. They 88 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: really are. And it's the how you said that, like, 89 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: you know, this is usually twenty to thirty years, you know, 90 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: because you want to get that sweet retire a minut 91 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: at the end after you've abused your mind and your 92 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: body for three decades um. It was it keyed off 93 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: something that you and Garrison talked about in a previous 94 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: episode of The Hiring Practices where the Washington Stay guys 95 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: and they were they got busted because the therapist was 96 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: showing tons of bias, and that brought up for me 97 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 1: the hiring process because those psych exams are the only 98 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: time as a cop that you get a psych exam. 99 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: That's the only time you ever talked to a therapist mandatorially. Yeah. Yeah, 100 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,599 Speaker 1: it's a really bad move. And there's a joke in 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: cop culture of like, well, yeah, you gotta pass it 102 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: before you get hired, because after you get hired, you're 103 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: never going to pass that test. M because you know, 104 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: being a cop is is micro dosing PTSD in your 105 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: system the entire time. See I guess one thing I'm 106 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: wondering because you you were in it for fifteen years, 107 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: so that's that's not an insignificant band of time. Has 108 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: it gotten to be more that way? Because I knew 109 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: about fifteen something years ago when I was like eighteen nineteen, 110 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: just like I lived in the shitty little apartment complex, 111 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 1: and like the dude who live below above me, and 112 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: then like the dude who lived two doors down. We're 113 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: both Dallas cops um, and I don't know, like I 114 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: you know, I was not particularly political at that point, 115 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: but I didn't They didn't seem to have trouble relating, 116 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: Like they would hang out and ship after work, like 117 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: just like not like like we would be like barbecuing 118 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: outside and they would drop by and stuff, and it 119 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: was never I never got the sense that they were 120 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: living in a separate planet. But this is like fifteen 121 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: years ago, and I'm wondering, what to what extent do 122 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: you think this is kind of increased in recent memory, 123 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: Like this the kind of you don't really socialize with 124 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: people outside of the family, so to speak. It is 125 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: kind of like that. So, yeah, a lot of the 126 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 1: language you're using is perfect because so what you're describing 127 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: and what I remember from being a kid in the 128 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: eighties and the nineties and stuff was um community policing, 129 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: Like it's it's a literal style of policing, going back 130 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: to more of like the professional police style before it 131 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: went military, and in areas where people actively live in 132 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: their community and engage with their community, there's a striking 133 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: difference in the level of police violence that happens. But nowadays, uh, 134 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: it's not the same thing because a lot of especially 135 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: in bigger metropolitan areas, you're a cop there, you can't 136 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: afford to live there. You're you're definitely not getting paid 137 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: enough to live most of the time in the cities 138 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: that you're supposed to be, you know, a part of. 139 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: And it's gotten to the point where they actually teach 140 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: this like method up methodically in academies. They'll be like, hey, 141 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: if you want to be a cop in a big town, 142 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: you need to start shopping around in the smaller cities 143 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: around it to find a place to live, maybe like 144 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: an hour away. Um. And then they also pitch it 145 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: as a safety thing because it's all about you know, 146 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: the cheology grossman, we're all under attack, So they'll teach 147 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: people you know what, it's it's safest to not live 148 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: in the town where you're a cop now m So 149 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: it's become intentional and it's one of those things where 150 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: because I don't want to breeze past. This is not 151 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: the episode world talk about community policing. There's very good 152 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: criticisms of community policing, and there's a lot of things 153 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: that doesn't solve. But I think it's yeah, yeah, absolutely, 154 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: we're not trying to say, like the solution is just 155 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: to get cops, you know, to be members of their communities. 156 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: But it it is worse when they're driving in from 157 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: an hour out of town and see it as like 158 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: I'm occupying almost this area like it does. Yeah, that 159 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: language fits perfectly, especially with Grossman and all that. Yes, 160 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: and we've got a two partner on David Grossman up 161 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards if you want to check it out. 162 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 1: But he's kind of the one of the big one 163 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: of the big individuals who's who's done the most to 164 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: like really push um. I don't even like it's usually 165 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: framed as militarized thinking, but I don't know a lot 166 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: of soldiers who have been who were trained to think 167 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: that way about ship like most of the people I 168 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: know who were getting shot at every day for years overseas, 169 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: we're not thinking the way Grossman does. No, that's probably 170 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: because he never actually wouldn't did anything. I think maybe 171 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: we should probably Alexander, have you go start going through 172 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: this um this document you put together, kind of walking 173 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: through UM and I wonder if you might start when 174 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: you kind of started thinking about police training in the 175 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: mindset inculcated inside police departments from like a cultic perspective. 176 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: When did that really start to come together for you? Uh? 177 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: It probably really started to come together. Um uh when 178 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: actually when I got involved, I used to be an instructor, 179 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: when I got you know, behind that part of the curtain, 180 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: and I got involved in those things. UM and I 181 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: started going to teaching, and I started teaching other departments 182 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: that would come to us, and it was it was 183 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: a joke in my head at first, was like, oh, 184 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: we all speak the same language. And then that got 185 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: my brain rolling on linguistics and how linguistics work and 186 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: how that you know, the words we use change how 187 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: we perceive reality. And then I clicked and I was like, oh, 188 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: we're like a we're a subculture. We're we're like, no 189 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: matter where you go in the country, we are a 190 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: little subculture. We are a little group. And uh, that's 191 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: what started to kind of push me towards like it's 192 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: like being in a cult, because you know, you grow 193 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: up around Central California and there's a lot of really 194 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: religious people and you start seeing the intersectionality of it 195 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: really fast. Yeah, and that's interesting because we've talked a 196 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: few times on various shows I've done about how any 197 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: good subculture, any really good party, has elements of like 198 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: a cult. Right, There's there's little bits of that. There's 199 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: bits of that in friendship and Whatnotah. Yeah, Yeah, it's 200 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: just a thing like cults are taking advance nage, like 201 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: pulling a bunch of things that people do together in 202 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: order to manipulate human beings. Um, I'm wondering kind of 203 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: where where you think where are some of the areas 204 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: you think it kind of crosses the line with police 205 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: from like this is you know a degree of like 206 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure firefighters have a degree with this, you know. Um, 207 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,439 Speaker 1: these are people that like I hang around with all 208 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: the time and we wipe up in some intense situations 209 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: together that causes there are culti aspects. That's always going 210 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: to cause Um, I'm wondering, kind of where where are 211 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: the first areas you started to realize this, this is 212 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: crossing that line of Probably the first area is in 213 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: how much the department like and this was universal and 214 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: lots of departments that I had contact with, is how 215 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: much the department owns you? And I mean like they 216 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: use that language. They they'll tell you like, we own you. 217 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: Like anything you do in your personal life, your first 218 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: thought needs to be how does this affect my department 219 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: and my my sheriff, my chief, my whatever. Like every 220 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: single thing you do is supposed to be potentially pr 221 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: for the department. So they tell you flat out in 222 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: the forefront of your mind every waking moment you're on duty, 223 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: you're you're you're here, we own you. Um. And that 224 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: that was the first one that was just like, oh, man, 225 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: like no, I punch out at the end of my 226 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: shift and I go home. This isn't like, this isn't 227 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: this is a job. It's not supposed to be a life, 228 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: it's it's And that that was the first one that 229 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: started going it. Um. Probably the second one that I 230 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 1: really noticed was that you can tell anyone's a cop, 231 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: because they'll tell you within about five seconds of meeting them, 232 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: but their cop. If you're at a bar, you're at 233 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,640 Speaker 1: a party or at whatever, they'll be like, Hi, my name, 234 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: my MI name's Alexander. I work for the christ part 235 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: Like it's it's gonna come out of their mouth in 236 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: two seconds, because it is. It's their identity, it's their 237 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: entire sense of self. Yeah, I wonder because one of 238 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: the things we've seen in the last couple of years 239 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: in particular, is aspects of that bleed out, like the 240 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: thin blue lion flags and stuff. And some of that's 241 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: some of that's just you know, signpost. Some of that's 242 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: just I know people who were in uh certain jobs 243 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: where they transported things that were sketchy and had those flags. 244 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 1: Is like, well, maybe the cop won't search marr, you know, 245 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: but like there and there's elements that they're just you know, 246 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: I don't want the cops to stop me from you know, 247 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: fucking with these people or whatever. But I I think 248 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: there's also elements of that um and I think probably 249 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: television is to blame for aspects of this, but of 250 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: kind of that sheep dog culture as as a as 251 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: Grossman calls that are starting to bleed over into chunks 252 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: of the civilian world. Um, And I guess I'm wondering 253 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, what that looks like as a 254 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: as someone on like the the deep inside of that 255 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: as a police officer, Like what is it? I'm wondering, 256 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: like to what extent where you kind of conscious of 257 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: that aspect of society like filling out around you, like 258 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: some of these like the cult of the of the 259 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: heroic police officer kind of spreading to be um something new, 260 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: which which it really started doing from like two thousand 261 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: and eighteen up to the present moment is when a 262 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: lot of that shift seems to have happened based on 263 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: kind of what I've saw. No, that timeline fits perfectly 264 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: because I remember when I first got hired, the thin 265 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: blue line. It existed. It was a thing, but it 266 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: was just it was just a matte black with a 267 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: blue line and that was it. Uh. And I you 268 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: didn't really even in cop culture, like I didn't grow 269 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: up seeing that thing in the eighties and the nineties 270 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: met much, not at all. And then when I was 271 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: in the department in the in the in the two thousand's, 272 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: you kind of saw it. Every now and again, someone 273 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: might have a pelpin like in the department, but out 274 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: in public, nobody had that stuff. No nobody, nobody had 275 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: any of that rocking stuff. And it didn't It never 276 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: really bothered me until it showed up on an American 277 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: flag and then that was that was a big red 278 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: flag of like, oh this this is bad. I was like, 279 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: this is this is nationalism, guys, this isn't good. And 280 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: like my whole crew looks me and go what's nationalism? 281 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: And I'm just like, fuck, is there this like sense 282 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: that people are totying or is it this sense that 283 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: like this is kind of the silent majority that backs 284 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: us in doing whatever hard work we need to do. 285 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: I think it's started out as tody, it really did, 286 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: and it's but it's now shifted into um this whole like, 287 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, you get those guys that are like, oh, 288 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 1: if I see a cop getting in a fight, I'm 289 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: gonna get out of my car and I'm gonna jump 290 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: in there and I'm gonna back them up because they're 291 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 1: like they're playing top They really want that authority or 292 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: that whatever, but for whatever reason they don't go do it. Um. Yeah, 293 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: but this has been a way of like kind of 294 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: they get to see themselves as being like a posse 295 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: kind of a thing, like I'm in the I'm in 296 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: the club. I'm not in the club, but like they're 297 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: my buddies and is there. I don't know, does that 298 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: make being in the club cooler? The fact that there's 299 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: these kind of posses forming around it, the people kind 300 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: of work worshiping, the culture associated with it. Mean, there 301 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: probably is now, but honestly, when I was in there 302 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: freaked me the hell out. It really really creeped me out. 303 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: I didn't like it at all. Yeah, I mean, you 304 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: have to think about, if you're if you're a reasonable person, 305 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,280 Speaker 1: how weird it would be to see your job turned 306 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: into a cult like Garrison. You know that feeling um 307 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: or you're you're going to learn when we when we 308 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: make the coult. Yeah, okay, so I wanted to. I 309 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: guess let's let's let's get back to this kind of 310 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: list you put together, because you were sort of going 311 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: through different hallmarks of what makes something a cult. One 312 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: of them is the group displays and excessively zealous and 313 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: unquestioning commitment to its leader and whether he is alive 314 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: or dead, regards his belief system, ideology in practices as 315 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: the truth as law. Um, and I'll remind you we 316 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: were not talking about my podcast. We're talking about cults here. 317 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 1: Uh that's right. Um, yes, stay quiet, garrisons. They're just smiling, 318 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: silently staring at us through zoom. I see you, okay, 319 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: And you've written under this the law is the higher power. 320 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: They grant control of their actions. Blind faith in the 321 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: system frees them from having to consider their role in 322 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: the system. It's my job to arrest in charge high 323 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: let the court figure out the rest. It sounds a 324 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: lot like kill them all, let and let God sort 325 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: of out. In this case, the criminal justice system is 326 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: a direct replacement for God. I think, I think this 327 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: is this is a really good point. This is even 328 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: This is the thing even when I was like a 329 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: dumb kid and thought cops were fine, This was the 330 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: one thing that even like just even still freaked me 331 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: out about cops because every once in a while you 332 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: would see a video of like the cot was randomly 333 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: like assaulting somebody, and then other cops nearby just mindlessly 334 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: join in, and I'm like, whoa, that's so such a 335 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: weird kind of group dynamic of they see someone doing 336 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: something and they just don't question it at all and 337 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: immediately back it up, no matter what actually was happening, 338 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: because like I always tried to think things through more 339 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,479 Speaker 1: like logically, and that type of like mindlessness really freaked 340 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: me out. And I think was maybe one of the 341 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: first things that was like huh, maybe it was. It 342 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: was one of the first cracks and like maybe cops 343 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: actually aren't good. Um, I think, yeah, I think this 344 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: is a really great point in terms of how this 345 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: ties into like, yeah, it's my job to it's my 346 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: job to arrest and charge. I don't sort out what 347 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: happens afterwards, so it doesn't actually matter. Like it's like 348 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not actually hurting these people because if 349 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: if they did something wrong, it's going to get figured 350 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: out in the court system. I'm just doing this like 351 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,679 Speaker 1: preliminary task. It's it plays into a whole bunch of 352 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: like weird psychological things that make you feel better about 353 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: horrible actions you're doing because you have so much backing 354 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: that's going to make sure what you do actually isn't bad. Yeah, 355 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: this is like this, you know, this arrest, which may 356 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: be physical and ugly even if they're innocent later. It's 357 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: just part of what you have to do to get 358 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: to the point where you determine whether or not they're innocence. 359 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: So I'm not doing anything bad. Yeah. Yeah, And actually, Garrison, 360 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: I it's it's what you said. It's perfect because in 361 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: the bottom of the thing where I was just spewing 362 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: notes to myself, I literally put down here it's not 363 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: a job to them. It's a central component of their 364 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: sense of self. This is why they will do terrible 365 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: things to validate their perceived reality and how they things. Yeah, 366 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: they it's you might say, like, imagine how like think 367 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: about how hard it is to get people to admit 368 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: they're wrong about a political belief on Twitter, especially when 369 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: their name is attached to their account. Now imagine you 370 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: have like imagine that's the thing being argued, is like 371 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: the central thing around which you organize your life. And 372 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: also you get to shoot people who make you angry. 373 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's it's a rough situation to be in. 374 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: It is, it is. It's crazy. And the part that 375 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: I wrote of it's my job to arrest and charge 376 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: high I think that's that's a part of the mentality 377 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: of it is like, yeah, I don't want to say 378 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: it's like a game, but it almost is like a game. 379 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: It's almost like they're trying to get points, like score 380 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: high and talk to me about talk to me a 381 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: little when you say a rest and charge high kind 382 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: of what is that? What does that sort of look 383 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: like on the ground before we get into kind of 384 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: why people do that. So when when you're using your 385 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: your powers of arrest, you're you're you're supposed to adhere 386 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: to a penal code, but there is code and I'm 387 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: always speaking to California because that's where I got my trainer. Um. 388 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: They don't expect cops to remember every single element of 389 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: every single PC code because that's ridiculous. No one's going 390 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. Um. So there's there's 391 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: wigow room, there's play where I know you did this 392 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: thing and I know it's what they call a wobbler, 393 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: Like I can go felony and go misdemeanor. They'll teach 394 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: you in the academy. They're like, if it's a wabbler, 395 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: you always charge felony every single time, even if you 396 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna work, charge it felony, kick it 397 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: to the d A and let the d A c 398 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: if they can make it stick. And if they don't, whatever, 399 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: who cares. That's not part of our job anymore. Wow. 400 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: And yeah, And that's one of those things where a 401 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: lot of people I've had friends who got charged with 402 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: felonies that got dropped, but like, you're still living under 403 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: your You essentially have to live as like the diet 404 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: version of a felon while that's hanging over your head um, 405 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: which is not fun. No, And it's a big part 406 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: of the whole criminal justice. I'm sure you guys are 407 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: aware that d a's love to crack deals. They love 408 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: to make their big make little backroom deals. And facilitating 409 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: that is cops charging high. You're you're in the room, 410 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: you're facing felony charges and the d A is gonna 411 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: be like, oh man, I can knock that down to 412 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: him is demeanor. But that's because he knows he doesn't 413 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: have a case. But he didn't get that opportunity without 414 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: a cop charging the higher charge. Now you know who 415 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: isn't going to charge high because their prices are incredibly low, 416 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: very reasonable, very fair. The products and services that support 417 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: our podcast. Uh, we're back. So the next thing you've 418 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: got on here is kind of talking about cult carrot juristics. 419 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: Questioning doubt and dissent are discouraged or even punished. And 420 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: you've written academies are commonly paramilitary. They're working to break 421 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: down and build up cadets. As discussed last season on 422 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: my show, the FDO program is where fresh cadets meet 423 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: salty veterans in the cycle of abuse starts. The paramilitary 424 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: environment is usually casual and unnoticeable until somebody questions orders 425 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: or tradition. Questioning order gets the that's an order threat, 426 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 1: while questioning tradition and suggesting improvements gets that's how it's 427 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: always been done. There is no forum for change or progress. 428 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: Some places have these forums, but they're just for public relations. 429 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: And this is the thing that I think people who 430 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: are trying to engage with from a perspective of like 431 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: reform or whatever, trying to change law enforcement, as a 432 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: lot of people were last year, where things get jammed 433 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: up a lot is the there's this attitude among civilians, 434 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: so to speak, among most of us that like, well, 435 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: anything the government does should be subject to like what 436 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: we should watch out, We should look at it, we 437 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: should see if it works. If it doesn't work, we 438 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: should change it to it could work better. And that's 439 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: how kind of everything should work. And that's what you're 440 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: getting it here. Is interesting because it's the reticence to 441 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: actual change among police as legendary. But I don't think 442 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: there's a lot of discussion of the psychology behind it. Yeah, 443 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: I mean it's that it goes back to that whole 444 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: will do anything to reinforce our perception of reality thing. Um, 445 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: Like I said earlier, grew up in a cop family, 446 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: and it's specifically in the department that I worked at, 447 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: so you know, we were called like blue bloods or 448 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: legacy kids, and no matter what was going on, like 449 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: anything that you questioned, it was always so, well, that's 450 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: always it's that's the way it's always been done. That's 451 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: the way it's always been done. And I grew to 452 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: hate that answer, like with a passion in my personal 453 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: life everywhere. I refused to give that as an answer 454 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: when I became a sergeant. Eventually, Um, and yeah, they'll 455 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: do anything. I mean they will, they will bend laws, 456 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: they'll break laws because was going to charge them. M Yeah, 457 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: because it's what they've always done. Always. My department famously 458 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 1: had um our union got all of our union news 459 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: embezzled by people in our brass, and they got caught 460 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: dead to rights. But that case never went anywhere. Nobody 461 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: would touch it with a ten foot poll. Uh. And 462 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: even if you go and google it and you try 463 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: to look at archives from the local newspaper, it's gone. 464 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: It never happened. And Yeah, that's interesting to me because 465 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: that's like cops getting screwed over by cops. Why how 466 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: is that? How is that? How is it? Like? What? What? 467 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: What is the impulse to defend the hat Well, because 468 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: so there's a division in in cop culture of like 469 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,199 Speaker 1: like ranks and a cult. Once you get to what 470 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: they call brass, your your lieutenant, captain or higher, they 471 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: don't look at us the same way they don't look 472 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: at the grunts, the line workers, the guys doing the 473 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: twelve hour shifts were all that family talk goes out 474 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: the window and it's like, well we're and dad now, 475 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: and they change their role in that world, and again 476 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: to maintain that power and authority, they'll do whatever they 477 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: have to do. Yeah, that's um. I mean it also 478 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: kind of feeds into this this idea that like there 479 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: used to be less restrictions. There used to be like 480 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 1: we used to really be able to like do this 481 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: and do that, Like we like a lot of violence 482 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: get justified that way. But it also it provides an 483 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: opportunity I think for like police who are trying to 484 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: engage with reformers to do some sneaky ship because often 485 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: this like community policing, is referred to like, yeah, we 486 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: need to go back to the old methods of policing. 487 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: It's like, well, but there were problem Do you remember 488 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: the fire houses being used to black people during the 489 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: Civil rights movement? Like there were issues back before we 490 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: got militarized. It's it's yeah, and I mean, and that 491 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: was the stuff they were doing outside. Um, the jail 492 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: I worked in, because you bring up fire hoses, this 493 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: is where I'm going. Um, they we had big cotton 494 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:03,879 Speaker 1: fire hoses up on the floors in this jail and 495 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: it was actually built out of old parts of the 496 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: Texas prison. And you know, everyone talks about the good 497 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: old days when we could really do stuff, And the 498 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: story that always went around was that when the inmates 499 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: were getting rowdy, they would just walk down the tier 500 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 1: with the hose and just nail them, and then Jesus 501 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: Christ put it back because again, who who's gonna who's 502 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: gonna tell on me? Who's gonna believe these guys? Yeah, 503 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: and that was back in like seventies era, you know, 504 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: it's the that's the big fish story that guys used 505 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: to always tell. But I'm like, I have no reason 506 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: to not believe that story. It sounds yeah, very I mean, 507 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: worre stuff happens in prisons today. Yeah, I'm not surprised. 508 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: All right, Moving on down your list. This one's really 509 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: interesting to me, and I'm curious from some detail on this, 510 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: because this is not something I ever really thought about. Um. 511 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: Mind altering practices such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, 512 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: denunciation sessions, or debilitating work routines are used in excess 513 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: and served to suppress outs about the group and its leaders. 514 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: And you've written cop talk briefings, evails are always negative, 515 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: and the work routine is abusive, it is paired with 516 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: hyper vigilance. Um, I'm I'm extremely interested in that and 517 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: kind of like how it how it sounds like the 518 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: kind of language that you're talking about people using among 519 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: each other when they're doing this. So I you know almost. 520 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: I mean I'm not even almost in kind of a 521 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,880 Speaker 1: PTSD response, I've blocked out like a lot of my 522 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: memories from those years, Like I'll talk to that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 523 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: I'll talk to X cops and they're like, hey, remember 524 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I'm like no, Um, So cop 525 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: talk is mostly slang. It's like it's the ten code stuff. Um. 526 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: But it gets stuck in your head and you start 527 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: and it's it's one of those things where they talk 528 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: about how you're not gonna have friends outside of work 529 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: because you're gonna start talking in this language. You will say, 530 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, what's your twenty you know on code for 531 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: if you see someone who's acting a certain way, like 532 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: out of the ordinary, maybe a mentally ill person, you'll 533 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: say like, oh, that's a jay cat. Like you'll use 534 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: this jailhouse slang and it just it permeates your brain 535 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: and like we said before, your words manipulate how you 536 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: perceive reality and you just start seeing everything that way. Um. 537 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: The big one is the hyper vigilance cycle is the 538 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: is the abusive part. That's that's the part that really 539 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: got me thinking of cults of how though you know, 540 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: deny you food, sleep, make you work crazy hours and 541 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 1: do all these things. Um. And that's that's that's the 542 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: one that really keep the whole called aspect for me 543 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: was the hyper vigilant cycle. The studies that have gone 544 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: into it. Um. I learned about it from a book 545 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 1: this little guy right here. It's called Emotional Survival for 546 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: Law Enforcement. It's by Kevin M. Gil Martin, PhD. He's 547 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 1: an X cop who kind of PhD in neuroscience and 548 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: studies studied cops brains and got to see how they function. 549 00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: And he's the one that kind of coined this whole 550 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: hyper vigilant cycle of you're always edging at this parasympathetic 551 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: fight flight or freeze response time when you're on duty. Yeah, 552 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: it just stays up there the entire time. I'm sure 553 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: soldiers about the same thing, funk. I'm sure you had 554 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: the same thing, Robert when you were doing your war 555 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: journalism stuff man, or fuck just being in Portland last year. Yeah. Yeah, 556 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: it keeps you at that edge, that cresting peak, and 557 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: then you crash and you get back up and boom, 558 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: you peek up again and then you crash and it's 559 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: almost like a drug your brain becomes addicted to that 560 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: peeked out feeling that you get from the hyper vigilance 561 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: because you do here a little better, you see a 562 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: little burn better, your brains moving a little faster because 563 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: there's that heightened amount of adrenaline just constantly dripping into 564 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,200 Speaker 1: your system. And then you crash. And when you crash 565 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: is when you're not at work. So you start associating 566 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 1: not being at work with feeling bad and being at 567 00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: work feels good. Yeah, I mean the same thing happened. 568 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure Garrison. It happened like during the riots, where 569 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: you would feel shitty when you weren't out there. Um, yes, 570 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: some days I would go out, not even to just 571 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: to cover it, just to kind of just stand there 572 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: like a block away because there was nothing else to do. 573 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: Like it was, there's like I could sit at home 574 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: and rest, but I'll just be watching whatever is happening, 575 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: not doing anything else. You just it. It feels it 576 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: would feel more relaxing just to stand on a street 577 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: corner and watch people throws stuff over events, because that 578 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: that that's just that's more relaxing than laying down. It 579 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: was like, it's that a very a very weird disassociate 580 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,239 Speaker 1: of like feeling that. Yeah, Like my my brain is 581 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: it's accustomed to this environment. Now, so this is the 582 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: environment I'm gonna be in. And look how fast your 583 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: brain got into that groove now, you know, imagine doing 584 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: it for thirty years, yeah, instead of like six months 585 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: or even though it's it's it's started only after like 586 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: two months or right, and or even even in some 587 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: cases like a month. Yeah, it sets in fast. Yeah. Um, 588 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: all right, so I wanted to get into the kind 589 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: of the next thing here. Um. The leadership dictates, sometimes 590 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: in great detail, how members should think, act and feel. 591 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: E g. Members must get permission to date, change jobs, 592 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: are married or leaders prescribe what to wear, where to live, 593 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: whether to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth. Um. 594 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: Very classic cult ship, right, like the nut really of 595 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: what it had. We had all all that stuff when 596 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: I was a kid. Yeah, I would guess that, like 597 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: the time, if you ask someone for a quick definition 598 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: of a cult, this is what they're gonna say something 599 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: or there. This this is the kind of ship they're 600 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: going to highlight. Um, and I'm interested in Yeah, just 601 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: talk because you already chatted a bit about about this. 602 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: Just the fact that, like the way in which police 603 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: policy works kind of restructures how you function off duty, 604 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: which I think is something that people everyone understands elements 605 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: of it, right Like if you're a fucking dishwasher for 606 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: a living, you will wash dishes differently forever, right Like 607 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: if you if you bag your like bagshit at a 608 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: grocery store, Like that's something that you'll always kind of 609 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: know how to do. Like these bits and pieces of this, 610 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: but it's not quite the same as what you're talking about, 611 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: and I want to get kind of into why. Yeah, 612 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like when you're when you're as an adult, 613 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: you do something that you're like, oh, I used to 614 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: do that at my first job and I was like fifteen. 615 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, it does stick with the muscle. The muscle 616 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: memory sticks in those narrow pathways that your brain gets 617 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: carved unless you get the right kinds of mushrooms to 618 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: fix that. So and then you just throw ship in 619 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: the bad it smooth out those curves. Um. But yeah, 620 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,320 Speaker 1: the leadership really does dictate. I mean some of them 621 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: are some of them you can foy and some of 622 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: the republic you can you can pull up policies and procedures, 623 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: standard operating procedures, and you can look at like there's 624 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: a ton of policies that literally dictate what you are 625 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: and are not allowed to do in your personal life. 626 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: Things you're allowed to post on social media places, you're 627 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: allowed to go in uniform, and it all just starts 628 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: like tinking away at your armor. That that sense of identity, 629 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: that sense of self, and that's how the job becomes 630 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: your identity. Again, it permeates every corner of your life 631 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: if you let it. Um, if you don't have like 632 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: the I don't know the mental strength to kind of 633 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: resist that, it washes over your real fast. Because while 634 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: that's all going on, especially as a young cop, you 635 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 1: feel great, You're you're special. Now, you're you're in this, 636 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: you're in the magic club. You you have the the 637 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: symbol on your chest and the gun on your hip, 638 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 1: and it's really easy to let that slip and just 639 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: become everything about you. Um. Yeah, remember permissions like so 640 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: permission to date and things like that might sound a 641 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: little weird, but there are times where like my wife 642 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: and don't dress like the typical conservative Central Valley person, uh, 643 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: and at out of work functions, I would get I 644 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: would get comments from people being like hey, maybe, yeah, 645 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: your your wife has a lot of really colorful hair, 646 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: like maybe she should tone that down Jesus for again. 647 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: That was another one where I'm like, what, No, that's 648 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 1: my wife. She can do whatever she damn well wants. Yeah, 649 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's the kind of talking that 650 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: should get somebody slapped upside the head. Yeah. Um the uh. 651 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: The next thing you have here is the group is 652 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,959 Speaker 1: elitist claiming a special exalted status for itself, it's leader 653 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: and it's members. The leader is and I'm interested in 654 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: kind of because you you have you have elements of 655 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: this right um with it, like the sheep dog thing. 656 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: We're kind of like the cop is the center of 657 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: the cult for people who are not cop colts. I 658 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: don't know, like does this exist, Like I don't see 659 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: like cult a cult leader sort of within this this thing. 660 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: I think it's it's almost more nebulous than that, where 661 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: this idea of the agent of the law is kind 662 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: of the center of the cult that the people who 663 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: are agents of the law buy into as well as 664 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: folks outside of it. You know, I don't know, this 665 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: is probably deserve any I mean I'm interested in your 666 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: thoughts on this. This probably deserves significantly more analysis then 667 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,399 Speaker 1: we're going to give it today. But I think it's 668 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: a fascinating thing to think about. Right. It's kind of 669 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: like how I where I put earlier that the criminal 670 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: justice system is the direct substitute for God. It is God, 671 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: the law is God. I mean, how many times have 672 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: you gotten into a debate with someone where they'll be like, well, 673 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: it's ethically fine because it's legal, and you're like, well, no, 674 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: legality does not equal you know, ethical or moral and there. 675 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: But there's these people in America who are just like, no, 676 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: if it's legal, it's legal, that means it's okay. Yeah. 677 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: And the elitism, yeah, it's obvious. I mean, if you've 678 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 1: met it is kind of a religious belief though that like, yeah, 679 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 1: it's illegal, so it's bad. She there were a criminal, 680 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: so they deserved at sea making making a homebrewed cleric 681 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: that believed in the law for D and D was 682 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: pretty easy, uh, to be like, yeah, this is a church, 683 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: this is a religion. Um, yeah it is. It is 684 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: the sheep dog hum on im on sheep and the 685 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's us against the wolves and blah blah blah. 686 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 1: And then we have a guy's name in here that 687 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: I won't say for anonymity. But we had we had 688 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 1: a braska, a lieutenant that would give us these prepared 689 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: speeches whenever he thought someone's morale was getting low, uh, 690 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,520 Speaker 1: where he would talk about how and he was wrong 691 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: that the word sheriff comes from um like Sanskrit or 692 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: Arabic sharif, which is not true. It comes from shire reef. 693 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: It's old English, just squished because English is a hideous language. Um. 694 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: But he had to. I mean, I can't count how 695 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: many times he told me that exact same speech to 696 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: my face, over and over again, as if it was 697 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,279 Speaker 1: the first time I was hearing the story. And it's 698 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: to me, that was another thing that clicked. I'm like, God, 699 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: it's like talking. It's like a call in response when 700 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: you're in church sometimes. Yeah, anytime you confront a religious person, 701 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: they just have that that that that dogmatic skeew that 702 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: regurgitates and just like, well, here's my opinion that I 703 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: was told by someone who told me. Okay, so Alexander, Um, 704 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: we've got more to say. You've got a lot more 705 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: that you've written here. Um, we're gonna We've gone kind 706 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 1: of a little over the time we had here, so 707 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: I want to have you back on tomorrow for part 708 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: two of this before we roll out, Do you have 709 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: anything you'd like to plug? Maybe the Washington State Patrol? No, um, no, 710 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: I don't really have anything to plug. I'm I'm never 711 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: say die where all the easier threes because I'm that 712 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: elder nerd from the nineties. Yeah, and uh saw hackers 713 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: in the theater. I it's claimed to fame, So yeah 714 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter if you want to come see me. How 715 00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: are your hips doing about that? It's okay, Garrison's never 716 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: seen Wayne's World. Oh I know that's true. That's true, 717 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: too young. I tried to show Wayne's World to my brother, 718 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: who's still like five years older than Garrison, and did 719 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: not take. Didn't take. It's it's a it's a time thing. 720 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 1: My oldest is about four years younger than Garrison, and 721 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: they've seen Wayne's World. I'm just saying, wow, okay, Uh, 722 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: it could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 723 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 724 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 725 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: the I Heart radio app. Apple podcasts, or wherever you 726 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts, you can find sources for It could 727 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: happen here, Updated monthly at cool Zone Media dot com 728 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: slash sources. Thanks for listening.