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Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette presents

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Speaker 1: Till Death Do Us Part. I'll be your host, Emily

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Speaker 1: Simpson with my sidekick Shane Shane, So till Death Do

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Speaker 1: Us Part. The whole concept is basically, when we were

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Speaker 1: talking about cases and going through true crime, it's just

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Speaker 1: a reoccurring theme that we have lots of cases out

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Speaker 1: there of husband's killing wives, wives killing husbands, so we thought,

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Speaker 1: why not separate them out anyway. So this case, we're

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Speaker 1: going to go over the Josh Powell Susan Powell case.

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Speaker 1: And if you haven't heard of it, I think it's

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Speaker 1: one of those cases that stayed with me for years.

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Speaker 1: I find myself thinking about it just randomly.

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Speaker 2: One because it's unsolved.

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Speaker 1: It's unsolved, I mean.

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Speaker 2: And two because we lived in Utah at the time

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Speaker 2: that this took place.

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Speaker 1: We did. So Shane and I were married back in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine and we lived in Utah together,

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Speaker 1: and this case takes place in two thousand and nine

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Speaker 1: in Utah. So when Shane and I were living in

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Speaker 1: Utah together, we were actually following this case in real

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Speaker 1: time on the news every night where Susan Powell she disappeared,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to go through this case because the

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Speaker 1: layers in this case, the players, all the people involved,

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Speaker 1: the tragedy of it just within this family and case

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Speaker 1: is just it's unreal. So anyway, all right, let's go

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Speaker 1: through it. So well, we know he did it, we

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Speaker 1: know he did it, we know he did but it was.

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Speaker 2: Never really well, he was never legally charged or anything.

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Speaker 2: So right, we'll get through it.

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Speaker 1: So Susan Cox Powell was a Utah mother of two,

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Speaker 1: and she disappeared. This is back in December of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine under suspicious circumstances. Shortly after she vanished,

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Speaker 1: her husband, Josh Powell, was named a person of interest,

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Speaker 1: but was never charged in her disappearance, and her body

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Speaker 1: to this day has still never been found. In February

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Speaker 1: of twenty twelve, during a court ordered supervised visit, Josh

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Speaker 1: killed his two young sons before taking his own life

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Speaker 1: and a house explosion. The case later led to a

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Speaker 1: wrongful death lawsuit against Washington's child welfare agency was Susan's parents,

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Speaker 1: arguing that the state failed to protect the children. And

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Speaker 1: we're going to get into that a little bit more as.

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Speaker 2: We go through this now, we're going to order.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but now let's go back and let's just go

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Speaker 1: through this timeline. So in April of two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: Susan and Josh are married. So Susan and Josh were

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Speaker 1: both members of the LDS Church. And I was also thinking,

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Speaker 1: what also seems to be a reoccurring theme is that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people within the Mormon community or the

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Speaker 1: LDS Church keep coming up in our podcast. So we

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Speaker 1: talked about well our last episode just on regular Legally

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Speaker 1: Brunette was Elizabeth Smart, which was an LDS family, and

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Speaker 1: actually Elizabeth Smart's father, Ed became very close with the

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Speaker 1: Powell family, and not the Powell family, the Cox family,

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Speaker 1: not the Powell family, the Cox family.

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Speaker 2: Well, and who are who's the Cox family?

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Speaker 1: That's Susan Cox, Powell's father mother. He became close with

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Speaker 1: them because she had disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Parents of the wife that.

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Speaker 1: Was killed, Yes, well or disappeared.

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Speaker 2: Friendly and friends with the Smart family.

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Speaker 1: Well with the father Ed Smart. So Susan and Josh

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Speaker 1: were both members of the LDS Church. They met at

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Speaker 1: a church function for single adults. They were engaged just

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Speaker 1: a couple months after meeting, and they got married back

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, when Susan was only nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old and Josh was twenty five years old. Okay,

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Speaker 1: first of all, let me say just a word of advice.

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Speaker 1: I remember my grandmother saying this to me when I

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Speaker 1: was younger, that you should date someone in all four

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Speaker 1: seasons before marrying them. She only dated Josh for two months.

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Speaker 1: I don't think two months is enough time to really

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Speaker 1: fully grasp someone's personality.

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Speaker 2: You should. You should date them where you get to

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Speaker 2: see all of their personalities.

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Speaker 1: Right, you should see exactly, That's what I'm saying, at

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Speaker 1: least a year. I felt like that was the advice.

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Speaker 1: It's like all four seasons one year. You should at

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Speaker 1: least that should be the minimum.

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Speaker 2: And did you do that? Well?

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Speaker 1: I knew you.

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Speaker 2: For I only saw a couple of your personalities.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, now you know them all.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot I think, do I?

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know. I turned fifty. Who knows what

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Speaker 1: this year will bring?

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Speaker 2: So our fifty What do you mean you turned?

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Speaker 1: I did? I turned fifty a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: So you're currently fifty in your fifties, so we will

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Speaker 1: see what personality you get infty In my fifties. Yes.

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Speaker 1: For a brief period following their wedding, Josh and Susan

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Speaker 1: lived with Josh's father, Stephen Powell, in South Hill, Washington.

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Speaker 1: Now Stephen Powell is the father and the father in law,

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Speaker 1: the father of Josh Powell and Anne becomes a huge

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Speaker 1: player in this whole case because he's such a creepy,

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Speaker 1: weirdo pedophile. But we will get into that. The pals

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Speaker 1: had two sons together, Charles born on January nineteenth of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five and Bryden born on January second

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Speaker 1: of two thousand and seven, so the marriage starts to decline.

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Speaker 1: By the summer of two thousand and eight, Susan and

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Speaker 1: Josh Pal's marriage had significantly worsened. Josh was described as

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Speaker 1: exerting strong control over Susan and their money, despite Susan

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Speaker 1: being the main supporter of the family. I think, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean I read and researched, and

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Speaker 1: Josh I don't think ever had a career. I know

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Speaker 1: he tried to be a real estate agent.

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Speaker 2: That he he succeeded, and he did well in job interviews. Oh,

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Speaker 2: because he was very charming and you know whatever. So

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Speaker 2: he would do well in interviews, and then when he

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Speaker 2: got on the job site, he sucked. He didn't want

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Speaker 2: to work. He would try to figure out ways to

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Speaker 2: not work. He would try to figure out ways to

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Speaker 2: make more money without working, or get raises or complains.

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Speaker 2: So he so maybe his two months dating was the same.

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Speaker 2: It was a job interview.

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Speaker 1: Oh he did well during those two much and.

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Speaker 2: Then once they got married, didn't she You know, he

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Speaker 2: starts to kind of be more controlling or whatever, less

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Speaker 2: of a you know, prince.

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Speaker 1: I also I also believe he tried to be a

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Speaker 1: real estate agent, and see, in order to be a

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Speaker 1: successful real estate agent, that takes a lot of self motivation.

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Speaker 1: You're working for yourself. You're the one you have to

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Speaker 1: be out there and anyway, so that didn't work out, right,

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Speaker 1: So Susan, this is back in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: Susan had a consultation with a divorce lawyer and he

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Speaker 1: recommended that she make a videotape to document herself. The

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Speaker 1: video has since become available to the public. This is

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Speaker 1: the video that she made and then she put into

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Speaker 1: a safe deposit box. So the video begins with Susan saying,

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Speaker 1: this is me it's July twenty ninth, two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: Covering all my bases, making sure that if anything happens

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Speaker 1: to me or my family or all of us, that

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Speaker 1: our assets are documented. This is what she says in

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Speaker 1: the video.

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Speaker 2: Why would you at that point if you have I mean,

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Speaker 2: she documented because she thinks her husband's going to hurt her.

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Speaker 1: Well. Also, in the safe deposit box, not only was

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Speaker 1: there the video, but she also had like a handwritten

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Speaker 1: note and a will and testament talking about how if

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Speaker 1: anything happens to me, it's not an accident.

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Speaker 2: No, it was likely not to me. It's likely to

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Speaker 2: do to my husband. Even if it's an accident, it

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Speaker 2: was probably him.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So she's kind of even clearing, like my break lines

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Speaker 2: aren't working.

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Speaker 1: It's be goud of him, right, And that is what

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Speaker 1: what you just said.

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Speaker 2: And let's just talk about that she and sleep with

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Speaker 2: them and make them dinner.

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Speaker 1: No, that's what I'm saying. When you suspect someone that

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Speaker 1: you're married to could possibly harm you, and to the

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Speaker 1: point where you have a safe deposit box that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't know about and you're putting videos and notes in it,

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Speaker 1: why are you not leaving? I mean I don't want

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Speaker 1: a victim blame at all, because she's clearly the victim

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Speaker 1: in all of this. And I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of conversation around him about domestic

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Speaker 1: abuse and control and things like that, so I don't

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Speaker 1: know psychologically what kind of control he had over her.

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Speaker 1: But if you are legitimately scared in a relationship, why

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Speaker 1: are you not leaving?

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Speaker 2: She has no options, maybe finances.

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Speaker 1: Susan told her friends that she wanted to try to

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Speaker 1: save the marriage before leaving. I do think that she

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Speaker 1: did have a very strong faith in the LDS religion,

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Speaker 1: and I know that family, marriage, children, all those things

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Speaker 1: come first, right you know you're ID.

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Speaker 2: They do and they don't for you.

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Speaker 1: That's true, But I'm talking about the teachings the religion.

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Speaker 1: What is what is what is hammered into her head

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Speaker 1: is maybe she was not even concerned of her own safety.

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Speaker 1: It was more about I made a commitment before God,

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Speaker 1: I married this.

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Speaker 2: Maybe she's hopeful that it can just be improved in

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Speaker 2: instead is splitting up. Maybe she's trying to fix it,

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Speaker 2: but you and I now know it's not fixable with him.

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Speaker 1: No. And also I feel like if you're concerned for

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Speaker 1: your life, that that's irreparable. Maybe so this now we

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Speaker 1: get to December sixth, two thousand and nine. This is

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Speaker 1: the day before Susan goes missing. Susan and Josh have

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Speaker 1: a neighbor over at our Utah home on Sunday afternoon.

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Speaker 1: The neighbor remembers Josh acting out of the ordinary, offering

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Speaker 1: to make them dinner and willingly doing domestic tasks which

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Speaker 1: he always avoided. I remember he made like pancakes or

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Speaker 1: something like the last day. Yes, this is her last

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Speaker 1: meal before she disappears. He made pancakes and he actually

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Speaker 1: like brought them to her, and I guess that was

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Speaker 1: just strange because he doesn't cook, he doesn't do anything domestic,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't wait on her in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: But he's gay to her right, he wants to kill her.

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Speaker 1: Josh made everyone pancakes and eggs for dinner, and Susan

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Speaker 1: reportedly fell ill afterwards and took a nap about five pm.

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Speaker 1: There's also speculation, and this hasn't been proven because her

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Speaker 1: body has never been found, but that maybe possibly he

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Speaker 1: puts some kind of drug into that last meal on

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Speaker 1: the pancakes, into the pancakes or something, so that she

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Speaker 1: was sedated or asleep or something. The neighbor left, as

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Speaker 1: did Josh Powell, who said he was taking his two

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Speaker 1: sons sledding. So now we get to December seventh of

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Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. This is the day of her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: So this is when no one can find her. So

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Speaker 1: twelve thirty am Josh claimed he took their sons on

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Speaker 1: a late night camping trip while Susan stayed at home.

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Speaker 1: First of all, the story is absolutely asinine to me.

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Speaker 1: The children are very young at this time. What are

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Speaker 1: they like two and four or something?

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Speaker 2: Did take them?

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Speaker 1: He did take then we believe he.

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Speaker 2: Did the heck takes such young kids or even adult

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Speaker 2: kids camping midnight? And I remember it was below freezing

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Speaker 2: it was, and it just made And it's a Sunday, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because he talks about it, it's a Sunday. Because

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Speaker 1: he talks about how he gets confused because he didn't

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Speaker 1: go to work the next day.

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Speaker 2: Why did you go to work? I thought it was Saturday, right,

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Speaker 2: and I took my kids camping at midnight?

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Speaker 1: Right, So he said he was confused about what day

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Speaker 1: it was. Although he shows up at her work on

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Speaker 1: that Monday to pick her up from work, even though

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Speaker 1: he knows she's not at work, and he's.

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Speaker 2: An adult and can read a calendar and a clock, so.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, he claims. Josh Powell claims that around midnight he

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Speaker 1: decided to take his two young boys camping into the

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Speaker 1: mountains in Utah. It was snowy, below freezing one, right

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Speaker 1: and below freezing weather with snow, and so that's and

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Speaker 1: he claims that she did not go and that he

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Speaker 1: just has no idea what happened to me.

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Speaker 2: And I know you're going to get into this, but

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Speaker 2: he came back the next morning, right, yes, so it's

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Speaker 2: like he didn't. It's like, kids, wake up, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: go sleep in the snow. Right, we'll be back in

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Speaker 2: the morning, right, Mom's got pancakes, right, So.

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Speaker 1: At nine am. This is on December seventh, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine, the Pals daycare provider becomes alarmed when they

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Speaker 1: fail to drop off their sons on time and she

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Speaker 1: could not reach either parent. She contacts Josh Powell's mother

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Speaker 1: and sister, who call police after they cannot locate the couple.

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Speaker 1: So he's not answering a cell phone so many people

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Speaker 1: are reaching out trying to get hold of him.

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Speaker 2: Thinking he's at work and he probably should answer his phone.

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Speaker 1: Norse right, or thinking where are you with the kids?

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Speaker 2: If it's a normal Monday, he should be answering the

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Speaker 2: phone or reachable.

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Speaker 1: So they ask for a welfare check because no one

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Speaker 1: he's not answering, They can't get a hold of Susan,

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Speaker 1: so no one can get a hold of the whole family.

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Speaker 1: So around ten am that day, police break into the

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Speaker 1: Pals home and find no one there. They do notice, however,

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Speaker 1: and this is very interesting, that when they break into

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Speaker 1: the home that there are two large box fans blowing

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Speaker 1: air onto a wet spot on the carpet of the

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Speaker 1: home and to the couch. So the couch is wet,

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Speaker 1: there's a wet spot on the carpet, and there's two

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Speaker 1: box fans pointed at that. They found no visible signs

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Speaker 1: of a struggle in the house by fights.

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Speaker 2: Weird, Well, that's why there's no no signs of anything.

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Speaker 1: There's like some little bit of blood drops that they.

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Speaker 2: Find, oh but not enough to be considered alarming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but all it is is the wet couch and

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Speaker 1: the wet carpet and the box fans and the camping

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Speaker 1: at midnight with the two young kids. So that's where

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Speaker 1: we're at. Around five pm, Josh Powell finally returns home

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Speaker 1: with his sons, but there's no sign of Susan anywhere.

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Speaker 1: Powell is then taken to the West Valley Police station

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Speaker 1: for questioning.

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Speaker 2: Wait, can I ask questions? Did he when he came home?

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Speaker 1: They were there, right, I believe so, yes, And they

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Speaker 1: wanted to be like.

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Speaker 2: Why didn't answer your phone? Right? Said well, I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to use my battery because I didn't have a charger.

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Speaker 2: And then when they looked in his call, he had

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Speaker 2: a charger was plugged in. Right, Yeah, it was like right, guys.

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Speaker 1: He also when he was first, when they were first

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Speaker 1: calling him and trying to contact him. I do believe

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Speaker 1: that a police investigator finally had a conversation with him

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Speaker 1: and said, people are looking for you. You know you're

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Speaker 1: no one can find your wife. Couch is we the

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Speaker 1: couch is wet. We broke into your house and instead

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Speaker 1: of coming home, he drives twenty miles in the opposite direction. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's and.

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Speaker 2: They don't he say he does, he doesn't. He claim

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Speaker 2: he made a wrong turn, probably something matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: and then he kind of made it like, well I

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Speaker 2: was destroyed and what was going on?

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Speaker 1: But during that phone call, he is made aware that

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Speaker 1: his wife is missing because she did not show up

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Speaker 1: to work. That's very clear. So he drives to her work. First,

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Speaker 1: he calls and leaves her a voicemail, Hey honey, you

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Speaker 1: know hi. Then he drew. Then he drives to her

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Speaker 1: work and sits outside.

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Speaker 2: Oh, this is all before he comes home. Yes, when

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Speaker 2: the police are saying, we're at home and your wife's missing.

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Speaker 1: Right, your wife is missing. She did not show up

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Speaker 1: to work. Then he drives to her work, sits outside

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Speaker 1: her work, leaves a voicemail and says, Hey, I'm at

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Speaker 1: your work waiting for you to get off work. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to take you home because they only have one car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's supposed to create alibis prior to yeah, the missing.

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Speaker 1: Right, he's trying to create alibis during the post facto

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Speaker 1: alibis exactly So, around five pm, Josh Powell returns home

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Speaker 1: with his sons, but there's no sign of Susan, and

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Speaker 1: then he is taken into the West Valley Police Station

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Speaker 1: for questioning. I watched I have you ever watched the

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Speaker 1: videos of him in the police station being questioned about

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Speaker 1: I've never hated someone so much. I mean, we do

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Speaker 1: a lot of true crime cases and I hate everyone,

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Speaker 1: but I mean Josh Powell, just the narcissism.

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Speaker 2: But you say that about a lot of people I know,

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Speaker 2: But I'm just about me. Well, sure, I've never hated

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Speaker 2: someone so much, so it doesn't really mean a whole

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Speaker 2: lot in the same category as a killer.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, Anyway, have you watched his interrogation interviews or

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Speaker 1: not even interrogation, because they're not even that hard on him.

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about just trying to ask him basic

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Speaker 1: questions about his wife. He has like a ski cap on,

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Speaker 1: he's sitting in the corner. He's just very narcissistic. He

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Speaker 1: acts like they're bothering him. He doesn't answer questions, he

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to answer. I mean, if your wife is

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Speaker 1: legitimately missing and no one can find her, and your

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Speaker 1: claim is that you had nothing.

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Speaker 2: To do with it, oh instead of like, well she

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Speaker 2: goes here, or there's this, or like trying to give

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Speaker 2: more info and more resources, right, like helping that hear

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Speaker 2: some of her friends. We can call right.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen someone so bothered by having to sit

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Speaker 1: and answer questions about assaulting. He's so offended and like

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Speaker 1: he's so just barely answers, doesn't want to be there.

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Speaker 2: He oh, he's the worst question. Yes, And every time

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Speaker 2: we do these, I kind of wonder this, if if

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Speaker 2: I didn't show up somewhere one day, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if anyone would want to do a welfare check. Okay,

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Speaker 2: if you didn't show up one day, you're supposed to

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Speaker 2: film and you're supposed to be somewhere and you don't

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Speaker 2: show up, Like, who's gonna be really that concern? Like

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Speaker 2: who is it? I don't know. All these people always

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Speaker 2: have like they didn't show up in five minutes late,

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Speaker 2: and so everyone's like running around looking for.

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Speaker 1: What you're talking about. Even when we were talking about

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Speaker 1: the case and Columbus the Tepee case, like when both

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Speaker 1: of them didn't show up to work the case like

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Speaker 1: five minutes la case, people are like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: they didn't show up to work.

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Speaker 2: That's so weird, be like this is out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 2: They'd be like, yeah, well something Look if.

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Speaker 1: I was late to filming and they couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: hold of me. They people would be concerned because in

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Speaker 1: eight years, I have never been late ever, and I've

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Speaker 1: never missed, so that I feel like would set people off.

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Speaker 1: I feel like they would look for me. I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you, though, I don't know if anybody would.

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Speaker 1: People would just think that you were just hiding from me,

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Speaker 1: that you just needed a break.

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Speaker 2: People would ask you. They'd be like, he's been missing

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Speaker 2: for forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: You're like, he has, yes, I did not notice. The

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Speaker 1: day after Susan disappeared, her four year old son, Charlie,

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Speaker 1: told investigators that his mom had gone camping with them,

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Speaker 1: but she did not return with them.

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Speaker 2: He also said that they went camping in an airplane.

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Speaker 1: He did say they went camping in an airplane.

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Speaker 2: And that's why I don't know what under context. I

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Speaker 2: kind of wanted to know that, but I don't think

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Speaker 2: there's video of it. But I wanted to know because

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Speaker 2: what if he was I don't know. I don't know

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Speaker 2: what if his I don't know. I mean, just because

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Speaker 2: he says they went camping an airplane doesn't mean everything

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Speaker 2: else is incorrect. It doesn't invalidate everything it comes out of.

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Speaker 1: His mouth, right, But it's also hard to use that

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Speaker 1: as solid evidence.

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Speaker 2: That you know, I know, Ugh, he's good for the defense.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's a piece, it's a piece of evidence. Roughly

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Speaker 1: ten days after Susan vanished, Josh filed paperwork to withdraw

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Speaker 1: funds from her retirement account. This is also interesting to me.

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Speaker 1: This isn't two thousand and seven, So in two thousand

377
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,919
Speaker 1: and nine when she disappeared, but in two thousand and seven,

378
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,919
Speaker 1: they both took out million dollar life insurance policies with

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Speaker 1: each other as beneficiary. First of all, I feel like

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Speaker 1: a million is a lot of money for someone that

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Speaker 1: kind of lived very simple lives, like he doesn't really

382
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Speaker 1: even have a job, and she's kind of the breadwinner

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Speaker 1: and they I don't know, it just seems like a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. They were living with her with his

385
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Speaker 1: dad when they were first married, and they lived in

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Speaker 1: the dining room and had partitions hanging up, and I

387
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Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems like a large amount of

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Speaker 1: money for.

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Speaker 2: It seems like a lot of incentive, a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of incentives. Right. Police also found a hand written

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Speaker 1: will in Susan's safe deposit box, which we talked about

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Speaker 1: in the note, she described serious marital problems. She references

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Speaker 1: the million dollar life insurance policy that Josh had taken

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Speaker 1: out on her and suggested that if she died, it

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Speaker 1: might not be accidental. I would say that in two

396
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Speaker 1: thousand and seven, when they took out the million dollar

397
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 1: life insurance policies on each other, that that was that

398
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Speaker 1: Josh's and it was his idea. I don't think in

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Speaker 1: any way, shape or form, that was something that she

400
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 1: came up with.

401
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was taken out on him too, him too,

402
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: but he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's safe as a kitten, right, He's.

404
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 2: Like no, I no, But I wonder why he took

405
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Speaker 2: it out of himself. But it could have been cover

406
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: up or could have been a package deal or whatever.

407
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Speaker 1: Well, it could have been a way to convince her

408
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Speaker 1: that that's what they needed. I mean, how suspicious is

409
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Speaker 1: that if he goes here and he's like, look, we're

410
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Speaker 1: going to take out a million dollar life insurance policy

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Speaker 1: on you plan on going camping, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be the beneficiary. But don't worry about me. You don't.

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Speaker 1: Nothing's gonna happen to me. Yeah, although I do have

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Speaker 1: a life insurance policy on you, and you don't have

415
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Speaker 1: one on me, right, So there's that. So then in

416
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Speaker 1: January twenty ten, Josh picks up and moves to Washington

417
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Speaker 1: to live with his father. So less than a month

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Speaker 1: after Susan's disappearance, Josh moved away with his two sons

419
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Speaker 1: to his father, Stephen Powell's home in Washington. He stated

420
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Speaker 1: he wanted to escape the media tension. You know, there's

421
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Speaker 1: another interview I saw of him where this investigative reporter

422
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 1: that was following the case figures out like where one

423
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 1: of Josh's sisters lives, and then he drives there. He's

424
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: hoping Josh is there, and he actually runs into Josh

425
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Speaker 1: as he's parking and getting out of his car. Have

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Speaker 1: you seen that interview?

427
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,439
Speaker 2: Maybe a long time ago, but I think his sister

428
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 2: was opposed to him, right, and she was really calling

429
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 2: him out on well that behavior.

430
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So he has one sister named Jennifer Graves, who

431
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: believed all along that he was involved, that he had

432
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Speaker 1: something to do with it, and she's estranged from the

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00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 1: family he had. But he also had two other brothers

434
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Speaker 1: and another sister. So I believe he was visiting some

435
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: siblings home or something, and this investigative reporter happens to

436
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: come up upon him right when he's getting out of

437
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 1: his car, and he like interviews him in the middle

438
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: of the street, and he's like, where's your wife? Do

439
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 1: you know what happened to her? Why would she run off?

440
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 1: And it's so awkward because he can't answer the questions.

441
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: He looks around, he can't. It's it's like the most

442
00:20:58,920 --> 00:20:59,880
Speaker 1: bizarre interview.

443
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,360
Speaker 2: He was really bad at any of his alibi, any planning.

444
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 2: He just killed her, and then after that he had

445
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 2: no plans right, any no idea what to say or

446
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 2: how to act, how to cover up.

447
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: No, and he didn't participate in any of the searches.

448
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: I feel like that's like a number one rule too.

449
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,199
Speaker 1: If you're going to commit a crime where you have

450
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: a body that disappears and then people are going to

451
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 1: search for the body that if you want to cover

452
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: up your crime, you should involve yourself in the actual search.

453
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: When you're saying you had.

454
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: Nothing to do, you should act sad and you should

455
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: cry yes and not pull out a bunch of money.

456
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: And you should answer questions when you don't want to

457
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: answer questions and you don't want to give any information

458
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: and you don't want to comply with the police file

459
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,840
Speaker 1: for divorce. So then in twenty ten, about a year

460
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: after the first interview, detectives try and question Charlie again.

461
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 1: Now he's five years old. He was much more reluctant

462
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: to answer questions this time around, saying he couldn't talk

463
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: about Susan or camping because he's keeping secrets. So now

464
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 1: we know at this point that there's been conversations in

465
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 1: front of him. He's probably been coached in some way.

466
00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 2: I think, if I can go back, I think he

467
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 2: said when he said mom came with us camping.

468
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: Huh.

469
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 2: He said she was in the back in the trunk,

470
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: although I don't there's no trunk in a minivan. But

471
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 2: I don't remember if he said back or you know,

472
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 2: in the like he referenced to her not being in

473
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 2: the seats right, and then he said they went on

474
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,960
Speaker 2: an airplane.

475
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: Right. On July fourteenth, the twenty eleven, Steven Powell, so

476
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: this is the father of Josh Powell, gave an interview

477
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: on The Today Show making sexual allegations about Susan. See

478
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 1: this is where this family comes up with this idea.

479
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: I believe I feel like there was a lot of

480
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 1: conversation about how let's change the narrative and let's start

481
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,959
Speaker 1: doing interviews and talking about Susan being like sexually promiscuous.

482
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,400
Speaker 2: She had or a second life, right, Like, you.

483
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: Guys don't know what she's really like because they're getting

484
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 1: all this media scrutiny.

485
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 2: She ran off in some reals, but you know what,

486
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 2: you overlook some things to mention. So her cell phone

487
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: had the sim card taken out, right, So that's suspicious

488
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: because he's it's not traceable, right, And then he U

489
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,480
Speaker 2: there was that, and there was there was a couple

490
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 2: other things. Oh, her purse, everything is like left behind, right,

491
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: It's like another she just woke up and walked out

492
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 2: the door and left her kids and left everything the

493
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: freezing cold, and she likes to sleep with men. I

494
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 2: don't know where she is, right, It's like seriously, right,

495
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 2: who else did Peterson was the same way? Right? It

496
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: was like Scott Peterson, Right, it was like she just vanished,

497
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: although he claimed she was adjuctive, So I guess that

498
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: would explain a little bit more why her purse and

499
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: everything's left behind. And then you have the Watts family,

500
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 2: which we didn't go over yet. But it's the same thing.

501
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: The wife is missing and everything is left in the

502
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: house as is, and she just leaves her kids.

503
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: Right, there's appears, right.

504
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen men more likely?

505
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's true. No, it is true.

506
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: I actually a man would even take his wallet, like

507
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: he would still take his wallet in his phone.

508
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: When he leaves. Yeah, yeah, no, I yeah, you're right,

509
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 1: so Susan. So in this case, Susan Powell's purse and

510
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 1: phone cell phone was found.

511
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: Were left behind. She's a history of like drugs or

512
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 2: something which might cause someone to make.

513
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: Your infidelity because they ask because they asked Josh in

514
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: an interview. I believe maybe it was that reporter I

515
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: was talking about said has there been a history? Because

516
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: they He's just like, I don't know. You know, she's

517
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: a very sexual person. She just ran off with some

518
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: other guy, right, She just walks out the front door,

519
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: doesn't take any clothes with her, doesn't need a purse

520
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 1: or a cell phone, right, never wants to see her

521
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: kids again.

522
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: But she was disciplined enough to dry the couch. Yes, Well,

523
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: you know, before you leave, you got to make sure

524
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 2: it's cleaned up.

525
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: Right, So then when Susan. So then when Stephen Powell

526
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: does this interview this is in twenty eleven with the

527
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: Today Show, he starts making these sexual allegations about Susan

528
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: to switch the narrative, right, he's trying to make it

529
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: into like she's some sexual.

530
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: Devian after she's dead. Now you're just going to taint.

531
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: Her, right. He announced that he had an intention to

532
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: publish Susan's teenage diary, which he says will show that

533
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: she was sexually open. He claims that he and his

534
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: daughter in law both acted sexually towards one another. Shortly afterward,

535
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: police searched his home this is in Washington, and investigators

536
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: found hidden recordings that he'd made of Susan, the in law,

537
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: the father in law. So this is when, So when

538
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: Susan and Josh were first married, you know they're young.

539
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: They lived with his father and they lived in the

540
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 1: dining room. It looks like a very small house. There

541
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 1: shift a makeshift room in the dining room area with

542
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 1: like some curtains and some partitions put up. Have you

543
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: seen the videos that he made.

544
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: They showed a lot, you know, he followed her around

545
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: and stuff, right, yeah, I.

546
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 1: Mean like stalking yeah, and he was. He he would

547
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: take videos of her with her knowledge, where he made

548
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: sexual innuendos and videotaped her legs and her legs crossed

549
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: and her walking away. But he also had a lot

550
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: of videos that she was unaware of where he was

551
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: following her. And he's talking while he's making all these

552
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: videos of her, and he's talking about how he's in

553
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: love with her and she's the most beautiful woman he's

554
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: ever seen in the world. Oh and if she reached

555
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: down or bent over, he's like, Oh, she's doing that

556
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: for me. She knows that, I'm I mean, it was

557
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 1: just it's sick. He also would take her underwear and

558
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: smell them and make videos of it, and he would

559
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: lay her clothes out. But here's the thing. Obviously, Josh

560
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: is close to his dad because they live with his dad,

561
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: and then when Susan goes missing, he only stays in

562
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: that house two months and then he moves to Washington

563
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: and lives with his dad. He has to know that

564
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: his dad has an obsession with his wife, but he

565
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to have a problem with that. This is

566
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: where this whole Powell family is just I don't even creepy,

567
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: all of them, all of them creepy, creepy family with

568
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: the dad as the patriarch of creepiness, and then all

569
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: the kids being products of him.

570
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: Well I think it's yeah, well he Josh is a

571
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 2: product of his father. I don't know if the sisters

572
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 2: did anything.

573
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: No, well, I think the sister, well, the one sister,

574
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: Jennifer Graves, is like separated from the family. But there's

575
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: another sister named Elena, and everyone believes that she knows

576
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: more than she's willing to say, and she's a big

577
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: she constantly would defend her dad. So and then there's

578
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: the other brother that committed suicide, and I mean, we will,

579
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: all right. So he claims that his daughter in law

580
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: acted sexually towards him, or they're towards each other, like

581
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: it was mutual, like they had this mutual sexual attraction.

582
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: So police search his home in Washington. They find the

583
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: hidden recordings that he'd taken of Susan.

584
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: I think like four thousand images and recordings.

585
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't understand how this guy had a job

586
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: and like was able to.

587
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 2: He spends all his time, probably on disability or something

588
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: something where he doesn't work, and he just is a creep.

589
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: He would lay out her clothes and sniff her underwear.

590
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: He collected her trash from the bathroom, like cotton swabs

591
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: and tampons. Did you see that? Like he would literally collect.

592
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: I avoid the trash can.

593
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I would think, yeah, And he would put

594
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: them in ziploc bags and keep them. He also recorded

595
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: a conversation he had He would just lay it, like

596
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: lay them out. Yeah. He had videos of like all

597
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: this stuff laid out with like her underwear and her

598
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: clothes and photos of her and cotton swabs and underwear

599
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: and brawls, and I mean he was just a sick Oh.

600
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: He also recorded a conversation he had with Susan in private,

601
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: where he admitted to getting aroused by her and assumed

602
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: that she felt the same way. She voiced to how

603
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: uncomfortable she was by him. Stephen also possessed inappropriate materials

604
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 1: involving miners, some of whom were neighborhood children, that he

605
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: would film through windows secretly. So that's I don't remember

606
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: the age of minors. But that's why he gets arrested.

607
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so if I remember correctly, Kriktman wrong. But

608
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: he gets arrested and now they can use that to

609
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: take the kids from Josh Powell, right, saying this is

610
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: not a safe environment that they're in, we have to

611
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: do our investigation. And then I think they put expectations

612
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: on him that he needs to correct in order to

613
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: get his kids back, right, to create a certain environment.

614
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 2: So now the kids are under the state's control.

615
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: Right. So in November of twenty eleven, Stephen Powell, this

616
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: is the father in law, was arrested in charged with

617
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: voyeurism and possession of child pornography. Josh Powell was named

618
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: as a subject in that investigation, and following Steven's arrests,

619
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: Josh lost custody of his sons. And you're right, it

620
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: was because of an unfit environment. And what are these

621
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: kids being subjected to, Chuck and Judy.

622
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: Cox so that their father's a murderer.

623
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: Right, man? That Chuck and Judy Cox, these are Susan's

624
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: parents were granted temporary custody while the state maintained official custody.

625
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: Josh was a lit out weekly supervise visits.

626
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 2: I remember every what seemed like every few months, they'd

627
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: have a lead of some sort for the location of

628
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: the body. Because Josh had said to a co worker

629
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: that you could hide a body in a mine out. Yeah,

630
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: So they kept looking in the mind and then he

631
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: said he went camping at the I think it was

632
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: like the Simpsons Park or something.

633
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: It was, it's called Simpson something, And.

634
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 2: So they went there immediately after, thinking well, maybe there's

635
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 2: a body there, and they said there was no signs

636
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: of anyone camping. It was all like snow and there

637
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: was untouched. So he never went there. So every few

638
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: what seemed like every few months, it would surface in

639
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: the news that they had a lead and they were searching.

640
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: And then I remember Susan's parents, namely as her father

641
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 2: would like fly out and be there and he was

642
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: first hand, like on top of it. But ye, she

643
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: was never found.

644
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: No, And they also searched Josh's computer and they found

645
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: lots of search on his computer for remote areas, so

646
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: he was looking for remote areas and I'm sure that

647
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: was his search for where to duck the body.

648
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: Also, I think they found another body while they were

649
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: looking for her, because I remember when they found a

650
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: body or maybe it was her first, and then it

651
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: wasn't soon after her disappearance, he rents a car and

652
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: puts eight hundred miles on it. So if you draw

653
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: a circle of four hundred mile you know radius or whatever,

654
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: that's a huge area to search, right. And it's weird

655
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: that he rented a car, right and then returned.

656
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: It and went eight hundred miles miles. Right. We also

657
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: how does the brother Michael's car come into.

658
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: Play, because they then they he Michael's car. The brother's

659
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: car was a four tourist and they got rid of that.

660
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: He took it to a salvage yard and sold it

661
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 2: for like one hundred.

662
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: Bucks, right, just to get rid of it, right, because

663
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: he wanted it destroyed.

664
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 2: He wanted it destroyed. It was in working order. They

665
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: then they found that, they find that out, so they

666
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: take cadaver dogs to Now this car, it's not in

667
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: his care, so they can search it and they have

668
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: kidaverdogs and cad averdogs find two spots where there was

669
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: signs of a corpse.

670
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 1: A corpse a dead body human.

671
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: And they thought that I remember, they thought they had

672
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 2: real big leads now like we're going to get this

673
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 2: and led nowhere. Yeah, you know, DNA know nothing.

674
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: And also I believe they knew what salvage yard because

675
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: his brother Michael had reached out by email and wanted aeriel.

676
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: He asked, he like it.

677
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: Went far away, He like supposedly passed like three or

678
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: four places that he could have dumped it off at

679
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 2: and went to a much much further location and got

680
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 2: rid of the car. And is there a reason? I

681
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: thought it was his distance, but you're gonna say it's

682
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: something else.

683
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: Well, he then he reached out and wanted like aerial photographs.

684
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: He reached out to like a company, a drone company

685
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: maybe or so, I don't know exactly, but wanted aerial

686
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,479
Speaker 1: shots of that salvage yard. And I they believe it's

687
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: because he wanted to make sure that that car was

688
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: destroyed or was following up to make sure the car

689
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: was destroyed.

690
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: I don't know, but okay, I.

691
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: Don't know, but that so it's his. So the brother

692
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: Michael has always been under suspicion that he was possibly

693
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 1: and he's very close with Josh. Josh and Michael were

694
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: very close, So he was always under suspicion that maybe

695
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: he wasn't involved in the planning or maybe the actual

696
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: murder slash disappearance, but that Josh had possibly moved the

697
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: body and that his brother was involved, and that because

698
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: there's the eight hundred miles put on a rental car

699
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: days after she's disappeared and police are searching for her.

700
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: And then there's also they I you know, I don't

701
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: know what they did with the rental car other than

702
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: they knew it had eight hundred miles put on it,

703
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: but they weren't sure, like.

704
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: What, you know, they didn't have it or anything.

705
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: I don't think so at that time. Now we're too.

706
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: February of twenty twelve, evidence surface from a laptop from

707
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: Josh's Utah home that contain cartoon pornography from various Nickelodeon

708
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: shows that was incestuous. A judge ordered Josh to undergo

709
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: a psycho sexual evaluation and take a polygraph test, which

710
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: he avoided doing throughout Susan's disappearance. Well, of course, you know,

711
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: he wouldn't even answer questions. He's not going to take

712
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: a polygraph. Then, on February fifth of twenty twelve, just

713
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: days after this new court order, a state caseworker, Okay,

714
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to get into. This part

715
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: is so tragic to me.

716
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: So the boys are now let's recap. So now I

717
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 2: think he's in his own house. Yeah, he went house

718
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: to conditions, right, but I mean it's he's not with

719
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: his father or anything, and his father's in jail and

720
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: custody over correctly, and so he's now trying to meet

721
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: the conditions to get his children back. And he's currently

722
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 2: under supervised visits weekly or bi weekly, who knows. But nonetheless,

723
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 2: they come over to the house with a social worker

724
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 2: and the kids run up to the door and he

725
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: welcomes him in and then the social worker follows.

726
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 1: Right. So this is February fifth of twenty twelve, just

727
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: days after this new court order, a state case worker

728
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: brought the boys to Josh's home for a supervised visit.

729
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: And just like you were saying, he does. He opens

730
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: the door, the boys run up. He had this planned, right,

731
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: he knew they were going to run up. Probably they

732
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: run into the house. He shuts the door, He locks

733
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: the social worker out. She cannot get into the house

734
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 1: and she's pounding on the door and he will not

735
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: let her in. She calls nine to one one and

736
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: she says, you know, I'm here for a supervised visit.

737
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: The boys ran into the house and the father has

738
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: locked me out. He won't let me in. He attacks

739
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: the children with an axe. I don't understand this part, Like,

740
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: how do you do something like that? He spread gasoline

741
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: onto the children and throughout the house. Then he lit

742
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: a match which caused the house to explode, and Josh

743
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: and both of the boys were killed within the house. Right,

744
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: so we have a murder suicide.

745
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 2: So now we have the mother who's missing, but we know,

746
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: we know she's dead, right, And then you have he

747
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: killed himself.

748
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: He kills himself, their two children, kills the two boys.

749
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: So then Stephen Powell is convicted. In June of twenty twelve,

750
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 1: this is the dad's the dad of Josh. Stephen Powell

751
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: was convicted of voyeurism and sentenced to two and a

752
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,760
Speaker 1: half years in prison. The child pornography charge was initially

753
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: dismissed in twenty twelve. In twenty fourteen, the state appeals

754
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 1: the court and reinstates that charge. Then in twenty fifteen,

755
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: Stephen Powell was convicted of possession of child porn and

756
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: sentenced to an additional five years in prison. He was

757
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: released from prison in July of twenty seventeen after serving

758
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: just seven years total, but he died of heart problems

759
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: about a year later, and I did read because I

760
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 1: read about his death when he was taken to the

761
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: hospital because he was having a heart attack. Investigators went

762
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: to the hospital because they were hoping to get some

763
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of deathbed confession.

764
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: Drove around a bunch of circles before this guy was

765
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: this guy?

766
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: No, but they were hoping that they could get some

767
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: kind of last night confession like where's the body? How

768
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: was you know? Something? But he died of a heart

769
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: attack and they got no further information.

770
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: And then got an opportunity to try that.

771
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: I don't believe, so I know. I just know that

772
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: they got no information from him and now he's dead.

773
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: So you know, everyone, a lot of people, I mean,

774
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: anyone reasonable would think that the dad knows way more.

775
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean, even if he wasn't a part

776
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: of it. After the fact, I'm sure Josh told him everything, right,

777
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: and I'm sure he was helping them like do this,

778
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 2: do that, don't talk to them right.

779
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: Right, And a lot of people believe the brother Michael,

780
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: because he was close with Josh, helped after the fact too,

781
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: even though and we even talked about Michael's car. Oh yeah,

782
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: that was Michael's car that had They had the cadaver

783
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 1: dogs that had a hit in the trunk on it

784
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: the trunk. So the brother Michael Powell, who was close

785
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: with Josh, ends up committing to suicide a year later

786
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: after Josh committed suicide, and he actually jumps off of

787
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: a building. I think he's in graduate school at the time.

788
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: He jumps from a parking garage in Minneapolis. He was

789
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: thirty years old, and he died approximately one year after

790
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: his brother Josh committed suicide. The speculation is, did he

791
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 1: feel guilty, was he involved in some way? Did he

792
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: help move the body? Was he grieving from Josh dying

793
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: and his two nephews dying? You know, so so many secrets.

794
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: This is why Susan Powell's body has never been found

795
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: because anyone connected that does anything is dead. No, the

796
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: father in law is dead, Josh is dead, the children

797
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: are dead. And now the brother Michael that he was

798
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: close to, commits suicide.

799
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: And there's minds everywhere. I mean, I know, you know,

800
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,479
Speaker 2: or four hundred mile radius. I mean, that's insane, right.

801
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: So, after the twenty twelve explosion that killed the two boys,

802
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: the Cox family filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Washington's

803
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: Department of Social and Health Services. This is a negligence suit, right,

804
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: That's what I would assume that they.

805
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,240
Speaker 2: Weren't negligence house so because like I mean, well.

806
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: I mean just probably like a lack of duty of

807
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: care like somehow like all.

808
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 2: Letting the kids run in the house, like lack of supervision.

809
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: Or even the fact that they let him have supervised

810
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: visits and when he was you know, a person of

811
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: interests and the death of their mother and all these things.

812
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: And maybe the supervisors should have been at a remote

813
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: location where they have control instead of the house. I

814
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 2: don't know, right.

815
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, the lawsuit was dismissed. However, in twenty nineteen,

816
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: the ninth US Circuit Court of Appeals revived the case.

817
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 1: The wrongful death civil trial began in February of twenty twenty.

818
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: We can't believe this case. It starts in two that

819
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: she disappears in two thousand and nine. Here we are

820
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. This has just been an ongoing saga,

821
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: and we followed it. We lived in Utah starting in

822
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine all the way up to when

823
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: did we move back here twenty thirteen, so we were

824
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: literally living in Utah and the Susan Powell case was huge.

825
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: This is why I wanted to talk about it because

826
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: I felt like it was like every night when we

827
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: would go to.

828
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: Bed, it felt like the Scott Peterson case. When we

829
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 2: were living in Utah. Yeah it was well we were, yeah,

830
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 2: but we were in California at that time. But it

831
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: was like in real time, everyone's following it. Everyone's following

832
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: it and the developments and this guy that creeped walking

833
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 2: around and everyone knows he killed the wife, you know, right,

834
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 2: but you're waiting for the evidence, right.

835
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: So the wrongful death civil trial began in February of

836
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and Tacoma, Washington. In March. The trial was

837
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: paused due to COVID nineteen, but they reconvened at the

838
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: end of July and August of twenty twenty, a jury

839
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: awarded the Cox family. This is insane. This is talk

840
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: about a jury award. The jury awarded the Cox family

841
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: ninety eight point five million against the state agency. A

842
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: judge later reduced the award to thirty two million, which

843
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: basically came down to sixteen million per child, and then

844
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: the Cox family announced plans to appear the reduction, and

845
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: I do believe that it's been do you know where

846
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: it's at now? I do believe the ninety eight I

847
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: do believe the ninety eight point five has been reinstated. Now.

848
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how feasible it is for the Cox

849
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: family to collect ninety eight point five, but that is

850
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: the final Yeah, that's the judgment judgment. Just recently, Susan

851
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 1: Palell's mother, Judy Cox, passed away. This is according to

852
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: her daughter Denise, and she said that she can't wait

853
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 1: to see Susan and the boys. She couldn't wait to

854
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,280
Speaker 1: see them again. That was the last thing that she said.

855
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: And this is it's crazy. She just passed away without

856
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: knowing where her daughter is, without any answers, nobody found,

857
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: not knowing what happened to her daughter. A Judy Cox

858
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: remained publicly hopeful that her daughter's remains would someday be recovered,

859
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: keeping her portion of the insurance proceeds and trust in

860
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: case Susan were found alive. That's another lawsuit. So there

861
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: was the wrongful death lawsuit that had to do with

862
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: the Cox family suing CPS right based upon the child.

863
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: The children you know, dying a wrongful death suit. There's

864
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: also a lawsuit that had to do with insurance proceeds

865
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: because remember they took out those million dollar insurance policies.

866
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: Josh Powell changed the beneficiary to his brother Michael, and

867
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: so there was there was a lawsuit over who should

868
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 1: get those proceeds because we've talked about this before.

869
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: Should you know, should able to collect right.

870
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 1: Should his family be able to benefit from him killing

871
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: himself and his children? And because there were because that

872
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: insurance policy also had writers on the children, two hundred

873
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand each on the children. So then it

874
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: went in New York Life I think was the insurance

875
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: company was like, this is messy, Like we don't know

876
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: what to do with these insurance proceeds. So let's just

877
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: like kick it to a court and you figure all

878
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 1: this out, because this is messy. You have a woman

879
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: who disappeared, he's person of interest, he kills himself and

880
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: kills the children, you know who the brother is a beneficiary,

881
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: and then he kills himself. So New York Life Insurance

882
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: Company questioned the validity of Josh's changes after the murder

883
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: suicide given Washington's community property laws and Josh's status as

884
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: a slayer. We've talked about that before slayer statutes. Susan's parents,

885
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: the cox has fought for the funds for the boys,

886
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: arguing Josh couldn't benefit his family from the children's policies.

887
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: So the final outcome this took place in twenty fourteen

888
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: to twenty fifteen. A federal judge ordered the proceeds for

889
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: the Sun's policies about two hundred and sixty four thousand

890
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: each split fifty to fifty between Chuck Cox that's Susan's dad,

891
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: for Susan's estate and trust, and then the other for

892
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: Michael Powell's estate that's Josh's brother. For Josh's policy, which

893
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: was over a million, a judge ordered a split about

894
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: half to Chuck Cox that's Susan's dad, and half to

895
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 1: Josh's family family, which would go to Michael's estate Alena

896
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 1: that's a sister, and John another brother. In twenty fifteen,

897
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: a settlement finalized the distribution, with funds going to the

898
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: Coxes as conservators of Susan's estate and also to Josh's

899
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 1: family through Michael's estate. So anyway, it was very complicated.

900
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: So all right, Anyway, do you have any final thoughts

901
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: on Josh Powell and Susan Powell? And I wonder if

902
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: they're still currently looking for her body, like, I mean,

903
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: I know how expensive that is. I guess they're not

904
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: unless there's some solid lead.

905
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 2: Like actively, but it's probably not necessarily cold either or closed.

906
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: You know.

907
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 2: I saw some some guy that did a little investigation

908
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: on her and trying to figure out what the weapon

909
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 2: was that was used to kill her, and he theorized

910
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 2: that it was a power drill. What because or at

911
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: least it was used as part of it, like blunt

912
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: force trauma.

913
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: Are you saying in the house?

914
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 2: This is like because just prior to I don't remember

915
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 2: the timeframe, but not long like months prior to, he

916
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: bought a kit like a power tool kit, had like

917
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: five power tools in it, and it's documented, like you know,

918
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: they showed the purchase price. You know, I think there's

919
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: a transaction of him buying it. There's actually home videos

920
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: of him using it and teaching his kids like home repair.

921
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,880
Speaker 2: And then there's when the cops are sweeping the home

922
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 2: or initially it's there, right and it's at a place,

923
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: and then and then when they did the search of

924
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 2: the home or the car, excuse me, the minivan. When

925
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 2: they took the minivan to search it, there was two

926
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 2: sheet rocks. I think there were sheet rocks. If not,

927
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 2: there were like MDF woods that were in the back

928
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: of the car and they were burnt. And I saw

929
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: photos of this. So they pulled out these you know,

930
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 2: it's equivalent of plywood, right, they pull it out and

931
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 2: it's burnt, and it's all this like melted plastic and

932
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: metal on there, and and it's a power it's the

933
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 2: power drill. And so it was that little bonfire, that

934
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: little mess was not there when they initially came to

935
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 2: look for her, and then when they came the next

936
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 2: day to search the home and the car they found

937
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: all that. So in between the time when his wife's missing,

938
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 2: he takes a blowtorch because he had one, and melts

939
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: this tool and then puts it in the back of

940
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: his car.

941
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: Oh he melted the tool.

942
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was destroying the evidence.

943
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: Oh, so they did not do they did not take

944
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: it initially. Well, when they came back from the search,

945
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: he had already melted it. So you're saying it was

946
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: shown it was in the house initially and there's photos

947
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: of it in the house.

948
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's all the power tools and then later

949
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: the ones missing and they took They did take the

950
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: power tools as inventory and stuff. But then he said

951
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: there was no DNA testing done around it or anything

952
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 2: because they had no reason to think so this did

953
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 2: inventory anyway. So there's just a lot of mystery around this.

954
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: How he killed her. I thought maybe possibly he strangled her.

955
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: I thought maybe he put something in the eggs of

956
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: the pancakes that made her drowsy or sleepy so that

957
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: she couldn't fight back. And then she you know, she

958
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: said she didn't feel well and she needed to take

959
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: a nap. And then I thought maybe he strangled her.

960
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: But but then that wouldn't It could have been both,

961
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: But then that wouldn't count for why he would have

962
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: to clean up the floor, because if he strangled her,

963
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be blood, right unless I.

964
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 2: Oh, you mean the white couch.

965
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: So the couch was clean because he had to clean

966
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: the couch and he had to clean the carpet. So

967
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: there had to have been some type of.

968
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: Something or something. What did he have to clean? Why

969
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 2: was it wet? I don't know, right, good.

970
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: Question, but you know, even when you clean up blood,

971
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't go away. They always I watch forensic files,

972
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: they take them at all. But then they did so

973
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: there was no blood because they had to.

974
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,839
Speaker 2: If there was blood're right, he wouldn't have been able

975
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: to clean it right so much that they couldn't find Tracy.

976
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 1: Right. That's why I always thought maybe he's maybe he

977
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: strangled her, because then there wouldn't have been blood evidence

978
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: left behind. Because I'm telling you, because if there was

979
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: any type of fight or something where there was blood,

980
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: they would have sprayed lubin all and it would have

981
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: lit up it and that would have been enough to

982
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 1: arrest him. I don't know, but they never could arrest him.

983
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: So I think.

984
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: It sounds dumb, but something is not obvious and odd,

985
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 2: like maybe you know, in a struggle, food flew everywhere

986
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: and spilt, and he thought, this looks like a struggle.

987
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: I need to clean it up. So we're looking for

988
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: something more juicy, right, like blood or weapons. It's just

989
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: like he was just trying to tidy up so it

990
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 2: didn't look like a skull a struggle, and so it's

991
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 2: not anything more than.

992
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: That, right, And now it's just a wet couch, it's

993
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: actually Tan what oh I thought you said White.

994
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,960
Speaker 2: I don't care what killer it is, you know.

995
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 1: I think the most frustrating thing with this entire case

996
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: is those children obviously could have been saved if they

997
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: could have made an arrest of Josh Powell. And when

998
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,400
Speaker 1: they interview investigators and detectives and everyone that was involved

999
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: in the case, they were so concerned about making an

1000
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 1: arrest where a good defense attorney could have gotten him

1001
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: off because there was no smoking gun like we were

1002
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: talking about. They didn't know exactly what the weapon was,

1003
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: they don't know have a body, they don't know where

1004
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: the body is, they don't know what happened that night.

1005
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: He doesn't answer questions. They so they felt as if

1006
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,240
Speaker 1: they didn't have enough to arrest him and be able

1007
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: to charge him and keep him, and they thought that

1008
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: that would bungle their, you know, their investigations, so they

1009
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 1: just kept holding off, waiting for more.

1010
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 2: I mean, had they known what the outcome would have been,

1011
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 2: of course they would have done differently, but they probably

1012
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 2: thought time was on their side, something will surface, and

1013
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: then nothing did.

1014
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to be not only are you

1015
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 1: one sick individual, because obviously this specific podcast and that

1016
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,359
Speaker 1: we're doing has to do with husband's murdering wives or

1017
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 1: wives murdering husbands. But it is just next level to

1018
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: be able to kill your young children. I mean, you

1019
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: have to be.

1020
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 2: Well tune in next week, I'm sure we'll find someone.

1021
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: You have to be just completely psychotic. And the way

1022
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,439
Speaker 1: he did it, exactly the way he did it, yeah,

1023
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: with a hatchet. I mean because we did we because

1024
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: there was the whole you know, Annabel and I were

1025
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: at that cheerleading competition last weekend. We were we were

1026
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: in Vegas and there if you've looked at the news,

1027
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: you know my news sources Instagram, but if you've paid

1028
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: any attention to the news, there was the murder suicide

1029
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: that happened in Vegas, and that is a mother that

1030
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: killed her daughter in a Vegas hotel room, which I

1031
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: cannot even fathom. And so you know, this case, talking

1032
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,439
Speaker 1: about two young little boys running into a house being

1033
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 1: excited to see their dad and then him doing what

1034
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: he did is just it's incomprehensible to me that someone

1035
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: could do that. But we're not talking about regular people.

1036
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: We're talking about psychopaths. So there you go. We hope

1037
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode of the Susan Powell case. There's

1038
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: a lot of different documentaries out there that you can

1039
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: find if you want to take a deeper dive and

1040
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: watch it. It's really an interesting case, and I do

1041
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 1: hope that someday the family has closure and that they

1042
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: do find Susan's remains at some point. Anyway, thank you

1043
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,479
Speaker 1: so much for listening to Till death do Us Part.

1044
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: We will have weekly episodes on Husbands and Wives Again.

1045
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: Our PSA to our listeners is divorce is always the

1046
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: best option. Thank you for listening. You can follow legally

1047
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: Brunette wherever you listen to podcasts, and be sure to

1048
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: tell your friends and family. Thank you, thank you.