WEBVTT - Trump Classified Documents Case Thrown Out 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.000 This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:14.840 The classified documents case against former President Donald Trump came 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:19.239 to us stunning an abrupt conclusion today as Florida Federal 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:24.280 Judge Eileen Cannon dismissed the case outright. The case charging 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:29.479 Trump with illegally hoarding classified documents was widely considered to 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:33.120 be the strongest against him, with the breadth of the evidence, 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:37.280 including surveillance footage from Trump's own security cameras at Mara 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.400 a Lago, the testimony of close aids and former lawyers, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:45.400 and because the conduct occurred after Trump left the White 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.519 House in twenty twenty one and lost the powers of 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:52.479 the presidency. Cannon has faced criticism for her handling of 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.040 Trump's case, from the substance of her rulings to her 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:00.040 decision to indefinitely postpone setting a trial date. But this 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.000 decision came as a surprise even to her critics. My 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.560 guess is former federal Prosecutor Robert Mentz, a partner McCarter 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.280 and English Bob. Even though Judge Canon has issued a 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:17.000 lot of mystifying and unorthodox decisions, this decision dismissing the 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:22.280 entire classified Documents case still caught most legal experts by surprise. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:26.240 This is really a stunning decision by the federal judge 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.720 of Florida just throw out entirely the classified documents case 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.400 against former President Trump. It's something that I would suspect 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.160 that not even the Trump legal team was expecting based 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.080 upon the hearing that they had on this issue before 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.400 the judge. But what the judge did here is basically 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:48.400 find that the appointment of the Special Council Jack Smith 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.280 violated the Constitution. It does not address the merits of 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.800 the case, it doesn't address the evidence, it doesn't address 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.600 a defense that was raised by the Trump legal team. 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:02.400 It's all about the appointment of the Special Council, and 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:05.760 the judge found because that was done improperly, the only 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:07.600 remedy is to dismiss the case. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.400 Why did she say it was done improperly? How did 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:12.200 she find that? 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.760 Well? The judge wrote a ninety three page, very detailed 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:22.160 opinion which focused entirely on the Constitution's Appointments clause and 0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.239 said that what happened here was that the appointment of 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:28.840 the Special Council was done inappropriately because it was a 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.400 violation of that clause. In other words, the judge found 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.880 that the appointment had to be approved by the Senate, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.880 had to be confirmed by the Senate, given the level 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.440 of independence that jack Smith was given by Attorney General 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:46.760 Merrick Garland. The judge also found that the appointment violated 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.800 another clause in the Constitution having to do with the 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.320 expenditure of money that was not ultimately the basis for 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.399 the dismissal of the indictment, but she also found that 0:02:56.560 --> 0:03:00.720 the appropriations clause also was violated here because money was 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.000 being spent improperly, again because it was done without congressional oversight. 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:09.520 Canon wrote that the issue of a special council was 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.480 a novel one, but it's not a novel one. This 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.079 has been decided by other courts before. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.280 No, that's exactly right. This issue of an appointment of 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.119 a special council is something that has been done by 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.000 different administrations over the years, dating back many years. Both 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:31.080 Republicans and Democrats have used the special council as a 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.639 way to investigate politically sensitive cases and it has been 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.280 challenged before and every time in every court. This type 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.520 of appointment has been upheld not only by district courts 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.000 but also by the Court of appeal. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:49.840 Also, she contrasted Smith's appointment with the appointment of David Wise, 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.560 who is the special counsel in the Hunter Biden case. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.560 And she said, because Weiss was already a US attorney 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.840 and Smith was a private citizen when he was appointed. 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:04.480 But the Code of Federal Regulations says that a Special 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:09.240 Council appointee shall be selected from outside the federal government. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.640 So where does she get that from. 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.880 Well, the case of David White was a situation where 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.440 the US Attorney had already been investigating Hunter Biden. Then 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.039 there was a change in administrations, so the US Attorney 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.800 in Delaware was appointed by President Trump when he was 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:31.000 in office, and President Biden decided, along with his Attorney General, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.760 to allow that US Attorney to continue that investigation because 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.560 he was so politically sensitive, So it was essentially carried over. Now, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.719 the US Attorney in Delaware is confirmed by the Senate, 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.880 as all US attorneys are. But the Special Council is 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.240 an entirely different role. It's being done in a situation 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.159 where there's political sensitivity, and the whole idea of the 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.200 Special Council is to give a certain degree of independence, 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:58.560 And that was basically the argument that the Trump team 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:01.560 used in order to gain this victory. They argued that 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.200 because there was this independence, the Special Council was operating 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.040 without real oversight from the Department of Justice, and therefore 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.720 they were what's called a principal officer, something that required 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.680 sended confirmation because of that level of independence. Now, the 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.120 government countered that argument by saying the Attorney General is 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.080 not monitoring the Special Council on a day to day basis, 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.920 but ultimately does have authority over the Special Council and 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.320 does have authority over major investigated decisions. And that's basically 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.400 been the process by which the Special Council has been 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.120 upheld in all of these cases over the years, and 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:41.120 most recently by the appointment of Special Counsel Robert Muller 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.479 and the investigation between the Trump campaign and allegations of 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.240 collusion with the Russian interference with the election. That issue 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.000 was raised in the context of Muller's appointment, and again 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.920 it was approved by two district courts and ultimately by 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:54.680 the Court of Appeal. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.040 It seems like she took a recent concurrence by Justice 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:04.480 Clarence Thomas to heart in the presidential immunity case, Thomas 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.320 raised concerns about the constitutionality of the appointment of the 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.640 special council, which wasn't part of the immunity case, and 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.480 Canon cited that opinion, which no other justice had joined 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.560 in three times in her opinion. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.839 Yeah, that was unusual because he did have a situation 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.640 in connection with the presidential immunities case where Justice Thomas 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.839 made a comment about the appointment of a special council. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.240 It really was outside the scope of the opinions, and 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.520 as you say, none of the other justices commented on it. 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.560 But it does seem to perhaps have affected the judge's 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.920 decision here because if you can look at the body 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.240 language and look at the way she reacted to the 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.039 arguments during the hearing, she seemed to suggest that she 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.200 would go along with the other courts in the way 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.040 that special councils had been appointed over the years, because 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:57.800 there was a long standing president over many years and 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.320 many different administrations to appoint special councils in this way. 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.400 And yet we now have this decision which really has 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:07.080 done the legal community because it has thrown out of 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:09.920 precedent that has been in existence for at least twenty 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.320 or twenty five years. With regard to the appointment a 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:13.080 special council. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.480 What was also unusual about the hearings is that she 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:21.200 allowed outside groups to participate in the oral arguments. Have 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.200 you ever seen a district court judge on a motion 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.600 allow outside groups to argue? 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.960 No, that's something I've never seen before. You see that 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.360 on an appeal situation where you have friend of the 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.320 court briefs that are submitted when there is an issue 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.880 that has a broad legal precedent. But this was a 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.480 hearing before a trial judge and a very specific issue 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.160 where both parties were arguing, and I have never seen 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.640 a circumstance where a judge allows entities outside of the case. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.680 In other words, parties that are not actually parties to 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.480 the case don't really have any particular standing to make 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.520 these arguments to nonetheless come into court and argue for 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:59.360 or against a particular position. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:02.960 We've talked about this before, but just go into a 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:07.880 little bit of an explanation of how Judge Cannon has 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.360 not only slow walked this case, but her decisions and 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.840 the way she's handled it have subjected her to a 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.040 lot of criticism for going, you know, outside the normal procedures. 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.400 Well, people who have been watching this case from the 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.800 beginning have been a little bit mystified by the way 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.960 Judge Cannon has handled this case, in that she has 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.679 given a lot of time and devoted a lot of 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:37.240 energy to arguments that most judges, based upon past president, 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:41.360 would have dismissed summarily. In other words, it's not surprising 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.240 at all for a defense team to make all kinds 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.920 of arguments, including some that are very far effect. That's 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.440 something defense lawyers will try to do because you never 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.360 know what might actually pique a judge's interest. But most 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.360 of the time, judges very quickly dismiss arguments that are 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.040 out of the mainstream to try to keep this case moving, 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.679 to try to keep the case focused. In this case, 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.400 it seemed that Judge Canon was giving an exceeding amount 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.800 of deference to arguments that most judges would have dismissed 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.239 out of hand, and this has slowed down the trial considerably. 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.080 And now we have sort of the culmination of all 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.439 of that. An argument that seemed like a far sexed argument, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.439 an argument that was really kind of a hail mary 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.360 argument in the eyes of most people, given the lengthy 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.960 legal precedent supporting the appointment of the Special Council, and 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.880 yet she has now found out as a basis to 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:34.160 dismiss the case altogether. 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.280 The government is most likely going to appeal this to 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.719 the Eleventh Circuit. At the same time they appeal, could 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.560 they ask for her to be removed from the case. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:47.880 Well, that's the question now as to whether or not 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.320 this is an appropriate time to do that. She already 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.520 does have a bit of a shaky history with the 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:56.920 Eleventh Circuit. If you remember, during the beginning of this case, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.920 when the search warrant was executed, she asked that an 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.760 independent monitor come in to review the documents that were 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:08.040 seized by the government, something that was highly unusual and 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.560 really there was no basis in law to do it. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.480 She more or less found that because the subject of 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.080 the search was a former president, that there was a 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.239 certain level of due process that had to be accorded 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.760 that was different than anybody else. That was immediately overturned 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.240 by the Eleventh Circuit, and she was really rebuked by 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.040 the Court of Appeals for going way outside of the 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.880 mainstream and trying to create a basically two tier system 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.480 where somebody, because they were a former president, got a 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.360 certain level of deference on a certain level of due 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.240 process that every other citizen in this country would not get. 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.960 This is now going back up to that same Eleventh 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.640 Circuit Court of Appeals and will be interesting to see 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:47.920 what they do with this decision and whether or not 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:49.200 they overturn her ruling. 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.959 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Law Show, I'll continue 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.280 this conversation with former federal prosecutor Robert Mentz and we'll 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:59.479 talk about how this decision might affect the Special Council's 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:04.280 prosecuteu of Trump over election interference in DC. I'm June 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.640 Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. Donald Trump has been 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.280 on a legal winning spree. The highlight was this month's 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:17.160 blockbuster Supreme Court decision finding presidents are at least partially 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.240 immune from prosecution for official acts. That has dealt a 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.559 near fatal blow to the efforts of Special Counsel Jack 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.160 Smith to go to trial in the election interference case 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:33.480 before the November election, with the Conservative majority ordering District 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.120 Judge Tanya Chutkin to decide the full extent to which 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:41.800 the allegations are off limits to prosecution. The decision has 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.480 also led to a delay in Trump's sentencing for the 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.280 hush money conviction in New York, and then today federal 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:53.720 Judge Eileen Cannon, a Trump appointee, unexpectedly throughout the case, 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:58.760 accusing Trump of mishandling classified information, finding that the appointment 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:03.440 of Special Council Jim jack Smith was unconstitutional. The classified 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.559 documents case was widely considered to be the strongest case 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.439 against Trump. After all, remember this explanation from Trump. 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.679 If you're the president of the United States, you can 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:17.240 declassify just by saying it's de classifate, even by thinking 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:21.080 about it, because you're sending it tomorrow, lago or to 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.920 wherever you're sending it, and there doesn't have to be 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.800 a process. There can be a process, but there doesn't 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.200 have to be You're the president. You make that decision, 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:36.079 so when you send it, it's the classifate. I declassified everything. 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:40.520 Though the Justice Department will most likely appeal Cannon's decision 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.680 and has a strong case based on precedent, the trial, 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:48.720 which had already seemed unlikely to proceed before the election, 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:53.600 now certainly will not. And if Trump wins the election, 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.800 the cases against him are likely to dissolve one way 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.800 or another. I've been talking to former federal prosecutor Robert Mintz, 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.480 a partner McCarter and English Bob Judge Canon was slow 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.880 walking this case. Now she's completely stopped it. If this 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.640 goes up to the Eleventh Circuit and they have oral 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:17.680 arguments and decision time, I mean, it seems just about 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.040 impossible that the case could be tried before the November election. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.920 Either way, this seems to be a tremendous win for 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.680 the Trump defense team because in the first instance, the 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.280 case has been completely thrown out, and even if the 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.960 Court of Appeals does reverse it, it's going to slow 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.840 the case down to make it nearly impossible to have 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:37.760 this case tried before the election. And this is really 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.000 troubling for the government because let's remember, this was really 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.200 viewed by many people as the strongest case that was 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.160 brought by the Department of Justice and in fact by 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.960 even state prosecutors against former President Trump because it did 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.680 not involve a novel legal theory as some of the 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.880 other cases did, and because it was focused almost exclusively 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.840 on actions after he left office, which removed it from 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.679 some of the immunity issues. That ultimately is going to 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.680 be a problem for Special Counsel Jack Smith and connecting 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.520 with the January sixth case. So, while this case was 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.199 perhaps not the most exciting, it involved improperly removing classified 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.360 documents according to the government, and then the government alleged 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.560 that former President Trump obstructed the government in terms of 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.320 their ability to retrieve those documents. While it's not the 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.360 most exciting case out there, it was really on the 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:31.360 most solid legal footing, and prosecutors, i think, thought that 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.680 this might be the best chance they had out there 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.000 to gain a conviction in one of the federal cases. 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.920 This decision has nothing to do with the DC case. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:45.080 But Trump's attorneys hadn't challenged Smith's appointment in the DC case, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:48.440 they might now challenge his appointment in the DC case 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.840 as well. Where do you think that would end up? 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.960 Well, you're absolutely right. They have not made the argument 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.440 in the DC case, which is somewhat interesting considering the 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.200 facts are entirely the same. It has nothing to do 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.040 with the merits of the case. That has nothing to 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.800 do with the charges. Again, this simply has to do 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.200 with the appointment of the special Council, which would be 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.240 the same in the DC case as it would in 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:12.800 the Florida case. So it's interesting that they made the 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.440 argument in Florida, perhaps in front of the judge that 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.240 they thought was going to be more sympathetic as opposed 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.440 to the judge and the District of Columbia who they 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.400 thought would be less receptive to that argument. But now 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:25.680 that they have this win in Florida, I think we 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.360 can expect them to rely upon that and make the 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.920 same argument to the Court of the District of Columbia. 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.880 Although let's remember that the District Court decision of Florida 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.840 is not finding legal precedent in any way for the 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:39.720 judge and the District of Columbia, But nonetheless they can 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.880 cite that length of the opinion, try to make the 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.720 same arguments before Judge Chuckin in the District of Columbia, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.480 and if she rules against them, there's another opportunity to 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.120 perhaps appeal that decision and further delay that case. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.680 Also, as you mentioned before, there's precedent in DC for 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.440 the appointment of a special council in the Muler case. 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.000 Absolutely, yes, that's exactly right. So the chances of success 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.040 of the District of Columbia on this argument seemed to 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.800 be extremely low, but that may not stop them from 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.800 making the argument anyway. Citing the reasoning from Judge Cannon 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.880 in Florida and at the very least perhaps delaying that 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.440 case even further. So. 0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:22.640 Trump has been on a winning spree with these criminal cases. 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.560 You have the classified documents case dismissed at this point, 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.120 the DC election interference case on hole because of that 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:35.600 controversial Supreme Court decision giving him immunity for certain official acts. 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.280 The sentencing in the New York hush money case also 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.760 on hold because of that Supreme Court decision. And in 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:45.600 the Georgia case, Trump is seeking to appeal the ruling 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.280 that allowed the district attorney to stay on the case. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.680 What does this say about the legal system? People looking 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.680 at this must say four cases for criminal cases against 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.720 Donald Trump, only one went to trial and the rest 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.480 have been put on hold for one reason or another. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.960 Well, I think people who have been watching these cases closely, 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.880 if they're not lawyers, are probably scratching their heads at 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.479 the legal system. They're seeing a system that seems to 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.000 be falling down of its own weight in the sense 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:19.159 that the arguments are delaying the case over and over again. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.320 And even lawyers who've been watching this case, I think, 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:25.480 for the most part, are somewhat surprised at what has 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.880 happened in many of these cases. Lots of these arguments 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.439 that were made were real long shot arguments. Even the 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.920 presidential immunity argument. I think most expected that the Supreme 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.160 Court might not take that case, or if they did, 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:42.200 they certainly would not carve out the type of presidential 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.639 immunity that they did. So I think it's a case 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.240 that has really shocked the public, and it's shocked the 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.400 legal community. It's not gone the way that one would 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.439 have expected, and it certainly is a huge win for 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.240 the Trump defense team because if the ultimate goal was 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.680 to delay these cases, they have certainly succeeded in doing that. 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:03.440 And it's now likely that the only case that we'll 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.600 have gone to trial before the election is the case 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.280 brought by the Manhattan DA, And now even that case, 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.600 as you mentioned, is being held up presenting purposes because 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.880 of the presidential immunity decisions. I don't think it's likely 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.480 that the judge in that case will throw that case 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.560 out or that he'll decide that the presidential immunity decision 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.439 has any real bearing on that case. I think that 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.760 are going to point to certain testimony in that case 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:29.040 the defense will and argue that the presidential immunity case 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.480 requires that case to be overturned. But I think ultimately 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.240 the trialgy judge there will call that cumulative evidence or 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.320 harmless error, and that that case will stand. But in 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:40.720 terms of all these federal cases, they are very much 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.400 up in the air now, both legally and in terms 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:44.879 of whether or not any of them will ever be 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:49.080 tried before the election, or will ever be tried at all. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:53.080 Trump had two co defendants in the classified document's case. 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.760 What happens to the cases against them. 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:57.920 Well, the case is dismissed as to them as well, 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.439 because remember, this argument was not something that was unique 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.399 to former President Trump. It's not about immunity or something 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.760 that applies only to a president or to a former president. 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.840 This goes to the question of whether or not the 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:16.280 special counsel who brought the case was properly appointed. So 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.520 it essentially requires the entire case to be dismissed, not 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.439 only against former President Trump, but against all of the 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.280 defendants in the case. So you have to look at 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.320 this decision as an incredibly bold and sweeping decision from 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:34.080 the standpoint that it has thrown out the entire case 0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:38.240 not only against former President Trump, but against all defendants. Generally, 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.639 judges will be reluctant to make those types of decisions, 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.159 and generally judges will be reluctant to make decisions that 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:49.720 are based on purely procedural grounds. When the case that 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.520 involves a criminal prosecution, what judges always have to do 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.960 is to weigh the rights of criminal defendants against the 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:02.040 public's rights to have prosecutors prosecute cases for the safety 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.560 of the public. And usually what we'll find is judges 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.440 trying to find some type of middle ground. They want 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.439 to make sure they're protecting the rights of defendant. But 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.919 it is unusual to throw a case out entirely. It 0:20:15.000 --> 0:20:18.000 does happen if a search warrant, for example, is done 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:20.840 improperly and the evidence is suppressed. Sometimes that will result 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.960 in the entire criminal case being thrown out. But this 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.760 falls into that category of the rare case where a 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:32.000 judge finds a procedural violation by the government and throws 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:36.040 out the entire case. So it's really unusual in that respect. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.600 Because the case against former President Trump, the case against 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:43.520 his other co defendants is now over unless it's overturned 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:44.359 by the Court of appeal. 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:46.760 From a legal point of view, it will be interesting 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.000 to see what the Eleventh Circuit, which is a conservative court, 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.560 does here and whether Jack Smith asks to have Canon 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.119 remove from the case. Thanks so much, Bob. That's former 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:02.520 federal prosecutor Robert mintz Im maccarter and English. Trump posted 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:06.000 on his Truth social platform that the dismissal of the 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.720 Florida case should be just the first step, calling for 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:12.600 an end to criminal and civil cases against him in 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.639 other courts. He repeated his claims that all of the 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:19.480 legal action he's faced after leaving the White House represented 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.800 political attacks aimed at stopping him from retaking the presidency. 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:28.240 Coming up next on the Bloomberg Lawn Show, we'll take 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.960 a look at the judge's decision to throw out the 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.800 criminal case against Alec Baldwin with prejudice, meaning that the 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:39.359 actor cannot be retried. I'm June Grosso. When you're listening 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:40.040 to Bloomberg. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.679 The court concludes that this conduct is highly prejudicial to 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:47.639 the defendant. The jury has been sworn, jeopardy has attached, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.560 and this disclosure during the course of trial is sole 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:54.040 late that it undermines the defendants preparation for trial. 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:58.440 And with that New Mexico Judge Mary Marlowe summers throughout 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:02.800 the involuntary manslaughter case against Alec Baldwin in the middle 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:05.919 of his trial and rule he can't be tried again. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.240 Upon hearing her decision, Baldwyn cried and embraced his attorneys. 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:14.760 The judge said state prosecutors showed signs of scorching prejudice 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:18.960 by withholding evidence related to bullets from the defense in 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.919 a case over the fatal shooting of the cinematographer on 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.120 the set of Baldwin's film Rust in twenty twenty one. 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:29.760 Joining me is former prosecutor Joshua Castenberg, a professor at 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.800 the University of New Mexico Law School. Josh explain what 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:37.480 the judge found the prosecution withheld from the defense. 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:45.000 Here, so the prosecutor knew apparently that there were rounds 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:49.280 that were obtained by the special investigator that were not 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:54.160 handed over to the defense, and those rounds came from 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:58.240 a friend er and the associate of Hanna goudierrasreed the armorer. 0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:02.200 The rounds were never tested by you know, the Sheriff's 0:23:02.200 --> 0:23:05.720 office or by the investigating arm They were visually looked at, 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:08.840