WEBVTT - Interview With Laurence Juber: Masters in Business (Audio) 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.440 Look ahead, imagine more. Gain insight for your industry with 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:08.480 forward thinking advice from the professionals at Cone Resnick. Is 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.559 your business ready to break through? Find out more at 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:19.279 Cone resnick dot com Slash Breakthrough. This is Masters in 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.560 Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. I have a 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.200 really interesting and special guest and unusual guests this week. 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:32.080 His name is Lawrence Juber. Uh. You may know him 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.720 if you are a Beatles fan or a Paul McCartney 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.159 and Wings fan. He was lead guitarist for Wings in 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:42.400 the late seventies and eighties, but he is really a 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:48.000 musicologist and and best known amongst a musical audience for 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.320 the work he's done on guitar. He he is a 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:57.080 fingerboard guitarist. Uh really a a master prodigy. I don't 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.360 know what else you can say about him, A alliant 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:05.000 technical player. Lots and lots of other guitarists have a 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.360 universe of respect for him, and when you hear some 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:12.480 of the things he plays, you'll understand why he has 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:15.279 I don't even want to say dabbled. He has opened 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:21.080 up a new world of alternative tunings and that allows 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.120 him to do some really fascinating things with the guitar, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:32.199 including uh playing the melody, the lead and the vocals 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.040 at the same time. And you'll hear him at the 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:37.840 end of the show play two or three songs as well. 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:39.680 Most of the interview he had the guitar on his 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.200 lap and he would demonstrate different things as he was speaking. 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:49.000 If you are at all interested in classical music, rock 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.840 and pop, or the Beatles, or if you're interested in 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:56.760 the financial aspects of being a musician in the modern era, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.880 I think you're gonna find this to be quite a tree. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.440 It was really delightful having him. He's a charming, dry 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.880 witted brit And and that very much comes across. So, 0:02:07.960 --> 0:02:15.880 without any further ado, my conversation with Lawrence Duber. This 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:20.000 is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio. 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.720 We're gonna try something a little different today. My special 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.400 guest is not from the world to finance, but from 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:29.520 the world of music. His name is Lawrence Duber, and 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.320 let me just give you a few moments on who 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:36.280 he is. Born and raised in London. He began studying 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.720 the guitar at age thirteen or earlier, agan earning money 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:44.239 playing the guitar at that age. Upon graduation from university, 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.320 he immediately began work as a session guitarist. His first 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:52.440 project was with the producer George Martin. He was tapped 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.920 to join Paul McCartney and has then been Wings in 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.200 nineteen seventy eight as their lead guitarist for their world tour. 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.720 He has been a studio musician on thousands of sessions, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:10.360 recorded countless television theme shows, film soundtracks. You may have 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.000 heard his lead in the James Bond movie theme The 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.520 Spy Who Loved Me. It's the James Bond theme in 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.880 the movie The Spy Who Loved Me. Voted Guitarists of 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.320 the Year by Fingerstar Guitar Magazine. Named one of the 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.600 top acoustic players of all time by Acoustic Guitar mag 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.000 He has recorded twenty three solo albums since two with 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.560 a new album coming out in the not too distant future. 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.800 Many of those albums were released a critical acclaim and 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.760 he has won two Grammys. No less than a guitarist 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.760 than Pete Towns. It has called our guest a master 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:50.680 of guitar. Lawrence Juber welcome to Bloomberg. Well, thank you 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.680 very much. Who is this guy anyway? Who is this guy. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:58.280 So I was describing you to somebody, and the interesting 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.880 thing is, I said, here's a I who has played 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.800 pretty much with everybody in the world of rock and roll, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.120 and he could walk down the street and nobody's gonna 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:12.000 recognize him. He's really incognito. Well, you know musicians, A 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:16.360 lot of musicians are Incognitie. Yes, unless you pursue the 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:22.719 star track, you inevitably kind of full slightly out of 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.880 the limelight. And that suits me just fine because my 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.200 ambition from the time I started playing when I was eleven, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.600 Did you grow up in a musical household? No, so 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:35.320 you're the first musician. Until recently, I thought I was 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.360 the only musician in my family, not counting your daughter, 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:41.599 who I know. That's that's different. So we will get 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.120 to that. But I discovered through some family tree research 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.000 a year or so ago that I actually have a 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.479 third cousin, once removed, who's a sax player in England. 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:54.480 So not exactly um immediate family, you know, but I 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.240 think that what it is is there were a lot 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:01.120 of tailors in my family, and as the generations went on, 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:04.559 some of them got into couture. But my dad really 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.320 was an apprentice tailor. And I think that for me, 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.200 understanding music and appreciating music and the guitar came out 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.320 of pattern recognition, the patterns of music, the shapes of 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.960 musical phrases, the shapes of chords on the fingerboard, and 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.720 the shape of of all of that. I think was 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.320 was something that kind of underpinned my my musician ship. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.360 So my next question was going to be who you're 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.440 early musical influences, But you're gonna tell me it was 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.200 Weavers and Tailors, not what I'm expecting. Now, well, that's 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:41.520 a good album. I mean, I'm just talking in terms 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.800 of the neurological side of it. The the inspiration was, 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.800 I mean, you know, I got into listening to music 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:54.240 probably know slightly preteens and nineteen sixties three in particular 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.680 in England was this incredible year because there was this 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.720 kind of swell of Beatlemania that that started at the 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.240 beginning of the year with Please Please Me, and then 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.080 went through Please Please Me from me to you, she 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.640 loves you and I Want to hold your hand as 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.520 the you know, every three months we would have a 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.680 new Beatles single and it would blow up. By November. 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.640 It was full scale beatle Mania and my eleventh birthday 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.320 was in November and the Beatles had been on the 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:28.240 Royal Command performance a week before, and my parents realized 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:30.919 that I was never going to play saxophone like my 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.960 dad wanted me to, and it was guitar had kind 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.960 of become legit at that point because the Beatles were 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:40.560 becoming so successful, and once I picked it up, I 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.159 just never put it down. And when did you realize 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:45.839 you can earn a living with the guitar. I was thirteen. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:49.520 Local bandleader started bringing me in and playing weddings and 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:54.359 bar mitzvahs and stuff actually paid gigs, and I was 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.440 making more money than babysitting or working in the supermarket supermarket, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.840 and it's certainly better work than stocking shelves. Yeah, I mean, 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.679 I did you know I watched my next door neighbors 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.920 car because he had season tickets for Tottenham Hotspur and 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:10.920 I was a soccer fan back then. I was going 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.400 to say for an American audience, please, that was one 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.600 of the London soccer teams and at that time was 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:19.760 the like the best soccer team in England. So the 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:22.840 question that I think everybody who listens to you has 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.040 to at one point or another. Thing is you raised 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.800 on the Beatles and a lot of classic rock and roll, 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:34.320 how do you morph towards fingerboard style and acoustic guitar. Well, 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.880 I started off on acoustic guitar. And you remember nineteen 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.600 sixty three wasn't just Beatlemania, it was also the folk 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:46.840 boom so Bob Dylan, Jim Baya's Judy Collins, you know, 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.840 and we had our English versions of those two. And 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:56.239 I was really intrigued by the solo guitar players because 0:07:56.240 --> 0:08:00.040 the idea of a single performer standing in front of 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.160 an audience with just an acoustic guitar and often no 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.480 p a, you know, but just that self sufficiency really 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.120 was appealing to me. It was one particular piece of 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.920 music called Angie that was written by another Stone song No, 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.720 the different Angie the Paul Simon recorded on one of 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:23.200 the early Simon and Garf Uncle records, Oh sure, written 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.840 by Davey Graham who was a British guitar player, and 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:31.200 that involved playing a bassline and also playing the melody 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:34.040 at the same time. And because I had kind of 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.520 dabbled with piano when I was very young, but then 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.920 the piano went away It was at my grandmother's house 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.760 and they sold it. For some reason that the the 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.800 idea of being able to play complete musical statements, meaning 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:47.880 the bass and the bass and the melody and the 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.080 rhythm and everything else led me to really being intrigued 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.480 by that, and by the acoustic guitar, and and so 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:58.160 I got into finger style guitar, blank rag time, and 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:06.440 you know, stuff like that just really just really grabbed me. 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.880 I'm Barry Ridholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.360 Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Lawrence Juber, master 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.960 of the guitar, probably best known to an American audience 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.800 for his work as lead guitarist for Paul McCartney and Wings. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:27.240 He has also recorded numerous soundtracks for television and movies, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.679 as well as produced twenty three original albums. You know 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.240 you said you picked up the guitar? Really? The Week 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.520 I Want to Hold Your Hands was released by the Beatles. 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:43.040 How influential were they amongst everyone else? To you as 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:46.680 a musician. The big influence was really that they kind 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.840 of led the charge of this kind of musical youth 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:54.439 culture that that overtook England, because you know, the fift 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.280 is were kind of a gray period in England. You know, 0:09:57.320 --> 0:10:00.400 the economy really took a hit after the war and 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.600 it was not that great economically, and then the sixties 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:06.880 come along and things really start to kind of pick 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:10.480 up and you have this kind of this first wave 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.920 of the working class baby boomers or you know that 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.800 picking up instruments. And it wasn't just the Beatles. It 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.400 was the Stones and the Animals and the Dave Clark five, 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.600 and you know a little later, the Kinks and so 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.800 many English bands that it was remarkable to be growing 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.880 up at that point in time when there was just 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.319 this incredible explosion of music. And the Beatles obviously were 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:37.360 kind of like the top of the heap because they 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.719 were the most successful, but they really weren't the only ones. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.360 So and my my interests went much broader than them 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.520 very quickly. And it wasn't like I would sit down 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:50.960 and meticulously work out George Harrison's guitar solos. My consciousness was, oh, 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.520 that's cool, what's the concept behind it, and how do 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.120 I do that for myself. You're really a bit of 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.280 a musical historian and musicologist. I was gonna say philosopher. 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:05.840 Musicologists actually I'm a guitar ologist. Guitar ologist, so let's 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.200 talk a little bit about the covers you do. We have, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:10.080 We have a lot of time to talk about other stuff. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:15.600 Here's my beef with covers in general, covers being a 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.480 copy of a copy of somebody else's songs reinterpret So 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:23.640 either what what I primarily hear is either a note 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.680 for note recreation, which makes me sort of drug and 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.280 say why bother, or something that's so far afield it's 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:35.520 barely recognizable as the original. And what I love about 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:40.920 your covers, especially of the Beatles, is that it's immediately 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:45.280 recognizable as the song that it is, but it's a 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.560 very fresh version of it, and you hear nuances and 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.680 subtleties in the melodies that you might have overlooked in 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:57.760 the full four piece or more band version of it. Well, 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.480 when you strip it down to the musical elements like that, 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:05.600 sometimes it exposes really interesting kind of inner workings of it. 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:08.360 But but but here's the thing I mean, there are 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:14.000 times when my my interpretations are actually pretty much no accurate. 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.680 But doing it on the guitar, on a solo guitar, 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.400 and doing it perhaps for example, with you know, in 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:26.040 an alter tuning gives it a different texture, not only 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:32.199 a different sonic texture, but sometimes a different emotional texture. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.880 It has a different resonance to it. And I think 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.760 what's really important with with especially with Beetle tunes, is 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.199 because I play it to an audience who know the words, 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:45.000 they know the tune, and there's that unsung part of 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.560 it where the audience is kind of internalizing that their 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.800 own experience with it. So there's a kind of a 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.160 depth to it that goes beyond simply the guitaristic or 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.080 simply the musical. But I try to be true. I 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.440 try to be true to the melody the spirit of 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.200 the original to try and encapsulate it, and sometimes it 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.760 means changing things because I might find that a particular 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.600 song has a certain angle to it that perhaps wasn't 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.679 communicated in the way that it was originally recorded. I mean, 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:24.400 you know, not every Beatle recording is perfect. It's their iconic. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.840 I hate to use that word because it's become so overused, 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:32.240 but it's appropriate their iconic, but not necessarily entirely perfect 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.320 for the fabric of the song. You take something like 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.760 in My Life, you know, and the Beatles great song 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.280 and that their version of it on Rubber's Soul is 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.440 very consistent with the style of the album. But that's 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.960 a song that could be taken so many different ways 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.960 and has an example. Of course, I'm in the wrong 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.400 tuning for that, I'm actually in I'm in dad gad 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.720 tuning d A d g A d um takes something 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:31.160 like thing for example. Now, Frank Sinatra covered that tune 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.200 and I was just kind of tossing that out there. 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.160 But if I'm going to do an arrangement of it, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.560 I'm probably as well as referencing George Harrison's The Beatles version, 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:45.720 I'm going to reference Sinatra's version, for example, because that 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:50.200 gives me a different place to be. Here's another example, Blackbird, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.080 one of my all time favorite. Now, the thing about 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.320 Blackbird is that, you know, all the guitar players learned that, 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.720 but that's the accompaniment you can't get the melody in. 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:22.480 So I had to reconceive it, you know, just doing 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:24.720 it differently. Now I see what you mean by vertical 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.120 as opposed to. One of my references for that is 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.800 Kenny Rankin, because I used to do gigs with Kenny 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.440 and that was one of the tunes that we would 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.800 play together. And so I'm not just thinking about Paul 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:38.320 McCartney singing the song, you know, and Kenny Rankin had 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:39.840 this incredible you know, it sounded like I had a 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:45.240 French horn in his throat this incredible tone. So you know, 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.920 I'm looking for a way to articulate the melody that 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:51.320 has perhaps a little more horn like quality to it 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:56.880 rather than the kind of the liver pudlion tinged McCartney is. 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:01.880 M when you've released your first Beatles album, LJ meets 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.760 the Beatles, and I want to say plays the Beatles. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.320 I was in two thousands. What was the response to that? 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.000 Very good? I mean I got lots of great reviews, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.520 who got voted to one of the top ten all 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.600 time Acoustic Guitar records in Acoustic Guitar magazine, and sold 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.080 quite well. I mean, for you know, the the acoustic 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.760 guitar market is not like a huge market. I mean, 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.160 it's comparable with the classical market. You know, typically, like 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.520 a hit classical music album may sell ten thousand copies, 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:31.560 but just says a little crossover to part music. It 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.760 has crossover and and it it, you know, and it 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.680 still sells. I mean, I personally recommended it to countless 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.480 people who are Beatles fan and they all come back 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.480 and and I get repeat business on that because people 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:46.480 wear out the CD. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.240 Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:55.120 is Lawrence Juber. He is a guitarist extraordinaire. Toured the 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:59.920 world with Paul McCartney and Wings, has recorded numerous tell 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:04.800 vision and movie soundtracks, including the James Bond theme for 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.320 The Spy Who Loved Me and lots and countless other 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:13.679 studio work. Two time Grammy winner. Let's jump into some 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:18.280 of the more arcane, technical and altered tunings that you 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.480 seem to like. Tell us about Dad God Dad God 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.480 D A D G A D was supposedly developed by 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:32.119 Davey Graham, a British guitar player sixties fifty and the 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.879 Yeah in the late fifties early sixties. It really has 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:42.200 a drone tuning for him to jam with Moroccan musicians 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.399 that got picked up by Jimmy Page, you know, for 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:55.480 example cash. You know, it's it lends itself to that 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.560 kind of thing. But what I discovered when I started 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:02.800 fooling around with it was that it also has great 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:06.760 possibilities in terms of arranging pop music, and not just 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:10.560 current pop music, you know, like rock music, but kind 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.760 of the Great Anglo American songbook in general. So you know, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:26.679 it works. It just works great for all kinds of stuff. 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.640 So you can do Cole Porter, Jerome down the whole list. Yeah, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:37.399 Gershwin Um and I did an album of Um Harold 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.840 aland tunes for example, I've got the World on six 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.040 strings and a number of those students I did in 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.040 in that tuning because it just kind of lends itself 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.480 to some really interesting concepts. I mean, you take something 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:54.040 like Crimeer River and how the tone and the texture 0:18:54.119 --> 0:19:15.120 scenarity of it, and it gets these voicings that are 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.760 very almost pianistic in the way that the notes spread together. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.359 Because you have two adjacent scale tones, you have a 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.560 G N N A, which means that you can get 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.959 these kind of these kind of pianistic kind of sonarities 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.840 or or moral orchestral It's it's a way of all 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.960 orchestrating on the guitar. And then there's also three D 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:45.040 strings and two A strings, so octaves again kind of 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.160 a pianistic kind of approach. Um, and then it lets 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:52.359 me do you know where I can use both hands 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.199 on the fingerboard and get these kind of rhythmic effects. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.440 I should be running film in here. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.280 I'm not. Oh, you know, there plenty of stuff on YouTube, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:04.440 so you don't bother trying to take that stuff down. 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:07.240 The copyright issue isn't in it? Or is it just promoting? Well, 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:11.440 I mean there's um some of the interestingly enough, I 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:15.119 can't if if it's a cover tune and somebody posts 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.440 it on YouTube, which they do, you don't have I 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:19.520 don't have the right to take it down. The copyright 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:21.679 owner of the tune has to take it down. You 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.679 don't have rights in the performance, no, not, not like 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.080 you do in the in the copyright. Fascinating. I know, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.280 if you can monetize the performance, and how do you 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.240 because you go out and play it again? Well, or 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.359 because they you know, if if there's advertising attached to it, 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.400 then there's some monetization involved. But you know, the fact 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.880 is that YouTube is gargantuan as it is, and as 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:46.679 useful as it is as a promotion is really is 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.880 a kind of a a nasty beast on the back 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:53.760 of intellectual property rights that there have been all sorts 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.720 of articles recently about people who who have released songs 0:20:57.800 --> 0:21:00.520 they've gotten two hundred million plays and they get a 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:03.119 check for eighty seven dollars. Well, yeah, but it gets 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.200 a little twisted because the structure now, and we're kind 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.920 of drifting away from guitar tuns. But the structure of 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.959 of royalty payments is that you have the mechanical and 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.439 the synchronization rights which belong to the writers and the publishers. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.600 But since the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, you also have 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:26.960 a performance royalty. Now, for example, a songwriter may have 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.760 something played on Spotify or Pandora, which will generate a 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:36.399 minute royalty for the writing side, but the royalty for 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.399 the performer, which doesn't exist in terrestrial radio, but in 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.760 the digital medium, the royalty for the performer is substantially higher. 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.520 So I'm very happy when March rolls around and I 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:51.280 see my royalty statements from Sound Exchange for airplay that 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.640 I get on my Christmas music on Pandora, for example. 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.800 I'm very ridults you're listening to Masters in Business on 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:01.359 Bloomberg Radio. My special guests at is Lawrence Duber. He 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:05.200 is the two time Grammy Award winning guitarists who toured 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:09.520 with Paul McCartney and Wins. He's released twenty three albums, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.639 many of which were too critical acclaim. Let's talk a 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:17.760 little bit about the future of music. Recording isn't the 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.160 money maker it used to be, So how do musicians 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.800 make a living today? It's funny being on a Masters 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.199 of Business show because I was never a Master of Business. 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.800 I just knew I play guitar and I can get 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.359 paid this much for this gig. So I never really 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.480 learned until I worked with McCartney. I never really learned 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.960 about the music publishing side of things and how the 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:44.479 revenue really comes in, not so much from the artists side, 0:22:44.800 --> 0:22:48.120 but from the writer publisher side, because that's always been 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.000 governed by statutory royalty rates. So it's not like somebody, 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:54.840 well they do. Record companies will still, you know, try 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:57.719 and cut you down on the statutory right. But at 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:00.480 least you know that there's a copyright try funeral that 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.280 says there's nine point one since coming to you for 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:08.399 every copy of this particular composition that you write and publish. 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:11.560 So I learned a lot from working with Paul because 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:14.520 he had become even by the late seventies, had really 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.920 become the largest independent music publisher in the world. You 0:23:18.240 --> 0:23:22.320 describe yourself as having a masters in music at McCartney Universe. 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.600 So what did he teach you about about that business side? 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.680 And it's really in terms of making how you can 0:23:28.720 --> 0:23:31.320 make money on that side of things too, own your own, 0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.760 your own soul and your own your your material. And 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:36.960 you know, I never consider myself to be a composer 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.199 until that point where it was like, oh, you mean 0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:40.639 you don't have to just sit there and wait for 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:42.560 a bolt of lightning to come from the heavens that 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.560 you you know, it's it's a job. It's Paul's very 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.359 has this great work ethic as far as he still 0:23:48.720 --> 0:23:51.320 a studio, well not just the touring, but I'm going 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:53.359 to write I'm going to write a tune today, or 0:23:53.359 --> 0:23:55.000 I'm going to write a tune this morning and another 0:23:55.000 --> 0:23:57.040 one this afternoon. I mean, it's you know, it's like 0:23:57.119 --> 0:23:59.439 what John and Paul did when they sat down and 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.480 they said, well, once they started making money, it's like, 0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:03.680 what what should we write today? Well, let's let's write 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.480 a swimming pool. I had a new roof I mean, 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.520 you know you because if you have a hit song, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:12.719 I mean that there is you know, that side of 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:17.959 the equation is a valuable one. More recently, the performance 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:21.800 riot royalties have have kicked in for for players, for 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:24.479 performers in a way that never existed in the past, 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.040 because you as a studio musician, for example, you wouldn't 0:24:28.040 --> 0:24:30.959 get any kind of back end on radio airplay. But 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:35.040 even the artists never got any radio airplay. So as 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:38.040 a studio musician you get paid hourly and then you're out. Well, 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:40.960 but then there's a musicians union, you know, I'm I mean, 0:24:41.000 --> 0:24:43.520 I've been in you know, the English Musicians Union. I've 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:45.359 been a member of the air for them since the 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:49.199 mid seventies. I have a pension coming from, you know, 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:51.719 all the work, especially in the TV and movie end 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:54.880 of things, that seems to be better structured and more 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.840 lawyered up to a large extent. Yes, but but it's 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:01.680 also it's a evolved now. I mean, there's there are 0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:04.399 different funds. There's a secondary payments fund where if you 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:07.879 play on a movie score, for example, some tiny portion 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:12.280 of the of the growth the distributors growth of secondary markets, 0:25:12.320 --> 0:25:15.000 like if it goes to DVD or you know, that 0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:18.160 generates payments to musicians, and that's the kind of thing 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:20.520 that in the dry Spells, that's one of the things 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.439 that musicians can survive on in l A. It's a 0:25:24.440 --> 0:25:26.879