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Speaker 1: Look ahead, imagine more. Gain insight for your industry with

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Speaker 1: forward thinking advice from the professionals at Cone Resnick. Is

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Speaker 1: Cone resnick dot com Slash Breakthrough. This is Masters in

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Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ridholds on Bloomberg Radio. I have a

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Speaker 1: really interesting and special guest and unusual guests this week.

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Speaker 1: His name is Lawrence Juber. Uh. You may know him

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Speaker 1: if you are a Beatles fan or a Paul McCartney

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Speaker 1: and Wings fan. He was lead guitarist for Wings in

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Speaker 1: the late seventies and eighties, but he is really a

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Speaker 1: musicologist and and best known amongst a musical audience for

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Speaker 1: the work he's done on guitar. He he is a

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Speaker 1: fingerboard guitarist. Uh really a a master prodigy. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what else you can say about him, A alliant

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Speaker 1: technical player. Lots and lots of other guitarists have a

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Speaker 1: universe of respect for him, and when you hear some

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Speaker 1: of the things he plays, you'll understand why he has

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to say dabbled. He has opened

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Speaker 1: up a new world of alternative tunings and that allows

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Speaker 1: him to do some really fascinating things with the guitar,

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Speaker 1: including uh playing the melody, the lead and the vocals

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Speaker 1: at the same time. And you'll hear him at the

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Speaker 1: end of the show play two or three songs as well.

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Speaker 1: Most of the interview he had the guitar on his

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Speaker 1: lap and he would demonstrate different things as he was speaking.

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Speaker 1: If you are at all interested in classical music, rock

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Speaker 1: and pop, or the Beatles, or if you're interested in

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Speaker 1: the financial aspects of being a musician in the modern era,

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Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find this to be quite a tree.

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Speaker 1: It was really delightful having him. He's a charming, dry

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Speaker 1: witted brit And and that very much comes across. So,

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Speaker 1: without any further ado, my conversation with Lawrence Duber. This

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Speaker 1: is Masters in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna try something a little different today. My special

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Speaker 1: guest is not from the world to finance, but from

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Speaker 1: the world of music. His name is Lawrence Duber, and

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Speaker 1: let me just give you a few moments on who

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Speaker 1: he is. Born and raised in London. He began studying

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Speaker 1: the guitar at age thirteen or earlier, agan earning money

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Speaker 1: playing the guitar at that age. Upon graduation from university,

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Speaker 1: he immediately began work as a session guitarist. His first

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Speaker 1: project was with the producer George Martin. He was tapped

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Speaker 1: to join Paul McCartney and has then been Wings in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight as their lead guitarist for their world tour.

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Speaker 1: He has been a studio musician on thousands of sessions,

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Speaker 1: recorded countless television theme shows, film soundtracks. You may have

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Speaker 1: heard his lead in the James Bond movie theme The

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Speaker 1: Spy Who Loved Me. It's the James Bond theme in

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Speaker 1: the movie The Spy Who Loved Me. Voted Guitarists of

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Speaker 1: the Year by Fingerstar Guitar Magazine. Named one of the

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Speaker 1: top acoustic players of all time by Acoustic Guitar mag

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Speaker 1: He has recorded twenty three solo albums since two with

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Speaker 1: a new album coming out in the not too distant future.

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Speaker 1: Many of those albums were released a critical acclaim and

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Speaker 1: he has won two Grammys. No less than a guitarist

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Speaker 1: than Pete Towns. It has called our guest a master

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Speaker 1: of guitar. Lawrence Juber welcome to Bloomberg. Well, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much. Who is this guy anyway? Who is this guy.

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Speaker 1: So I was describing you to somebody, and the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing is, I said, here's a I who has played

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Speaker 1: pretty much with everybody in the world of rock and roll,

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Speaker 1: and he could walk down the street and nobody's gonna

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Speaker 1: recognize him. He's really incognito. Well, you know musicians, A

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Speaker 1: lot of musicians are Incognitie. Yes, unless you pursue the

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Speaker 1: star track, you inevitably kind of full slightly out of

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Speaker 1: the limelight. And that suits me just fine because my

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Speaker 1: ambition from the time I started playing when I was eleven,

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Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a musical household? No, so

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Speaker 1: you're the first musician. Until recently, I thought I was

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Speaker 1: the only musician in my family, not counting your daughter,

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Speaker 1: who I know. That's that's different. So we will get

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Speaker 1: to that. But I discovered through some family tree research

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Speaker 1: a year or so ago that I actually have a

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Speaker 1: third cousin, once removed, who's a sax player in England.

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Speaker 1: So not exactly um immediate family, you know, but I

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Speaker 1: think that what it is is there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of tailors in my family, and as the generations went on,

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Speaker 1: some of them got into couture. But my dad really

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Speaker 1: was an apprentice tailor. And I think that for me,

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Speaker 1: understanding music and appreciating music and the guitar came out

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Speaker 1: of pattern recognition, the patterns of music, the shapes of

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Speaker 1: musical phrases, the shapes of chords on the fingerboard, and

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Speaker 1: the shape of of all of that. I think was

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Speaker 1: was something that kind of underpinned my my musician ship.

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Speaker 1: So my next question was going to be who you're

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Speaker 1: early musical influences, But you're gonna tell me it was

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Speaker 1: Weavers and Tailors, not what I'm expecting. Now, well, that's

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Speaker 1: a good album. I mean, I'm just talking in terms

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Speaker 1: of the neurological side of it. The the inspiration was,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I got into listening to music

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Speaker 1: probably know slightly preteens and nineteen sixties three in particular

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Speaker 1: in England was this incredible year because there was this

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Speaker 1: kind of swell of Beatlemania that that started at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the year with Please Please Me, and then

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Speaker 1: went through Please Please Me from me to you, she

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Speaker 1: loves you and I Want to hold your hand as

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Speaker 1: the you know, every three months we would have a

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Speaker 1: new Beatles single and it would blow up. By November.

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Speaker 1: It was full scale beatle Mania and my eleventh birthday

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Speaker 1: was in November and the Beatles had been on the

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Speaker 1: Royal Command performance a week before, and my parents realized

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Speaker 1: that I was never going to play saxophone like my

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Speaker 1: dad wanted me to, and it was guitar had kind

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Speaker 1: of become legit at that point because the Beatles were

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Speaker 1: becoming so successful, and once I picked it up, I

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Speaker 1: just never put it down. And when did you realize

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Speaker 1: you can earn a living with the guitar. I was thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Local bandleader started bringing me in and playing weddings and

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Speaker 1: bar mitzvahs and stuff actually paid gigs, and I was

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Speaker 1: making more money than babysitting or working in the supermarket supermarket,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly better work than stocking shelves. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I did you know I watched my next door neighbors

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Speaker 1: car because he had season tickets for Tottenham Hotspur and

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Speaker 1: I was a soccer fan back then. I was going

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Speaker 1: to say for an American audience, please, that was one

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Speaker 1: of the London soccer teams and at that time was

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Speaker 1: the like the best soccer team in England. So the

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Speaker 1: question that I think everybody who listens to you has

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Speaker 1: to at one point or another. Thing is you raised

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Speaker 1: on the Beatles and a lot of classic rock and roll,

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Speaker 1: how do you morph towards fingerboard style and acoustic guitar. Well,

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Speaker 1: I started off on acoustic guitar. And you remember nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty three wasn't just Beatlemania, it was also the folk

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Speaker 1: boom so Bob Dylan, Jim Baya's Judy Collins, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we had our English versions of those two. And

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Speaker 1: I was really intrigued by the solo guitar players because

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Speaker 1: the idea of a single performer standing in front of

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Speaker 1: an audience with just an acoustic guitar and often no

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Speaker 1: p a, you know, but just that self sufficiency really

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Speaker 1: was appealing to me. It was one particular piece of

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Speaker 1: music called Angie that was written by another Stone song No,

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Speaker 1: the different Angie the Paul Simon recorded on one of

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Speaker 1: the early Simon and Garf Uncle records, Oh sure, written

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Speaker 1: by Davey Graham who was a British guitar player, and

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Speaker 1: that involved playing a bassline and also playing the melody

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Speaker 1: at the same time. And because I had kind of

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Speaker 1: dabbled with piano when I was very young, but then

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Speaker 1: the piano went away It was at my grandmother's house

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Speaker 1: and they sold it. For some reason that the the

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Speaker 1: idea of being able to play complete musical statements, meaning

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Speaker 1: the bass and the bass and the melody and the

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Speaker 1: rhythm and everything else led me to really being intrigued

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Speaker 1: by that, and by the acoustic guitar, and and so

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Speaker 1: I got into finger style guitar, blank rag time, and

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Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that just really just really grabbed me.

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Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ridholtz. You're listening to Masters in Business on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today is Lawrence Juber, master

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Speaker 1: of the guitar, probably best known to an American audience

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Speaker 1: for his work as lead guitarist for Paul McCartney and Wings.

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Speaker 1: He has also recorded numerous soundtracks for television and movies,

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Speaker 1: as well as produced twenty three original albums. You know

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Speaker 1: you said you picked up the guitar? Really? The Week

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Speaker 1: I Want to Hold Your Hands was released by the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: How influential were they amongst everyone else? To you as

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Speaker 1: a musician. The big influence was really that they kind

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Speaker 1: of led the charge of this kind of musical youth

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Speaker 1: culture that that overtook England, because you know, the fift

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Speaker 1: is were kind of a gray period in England. You know,

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Speaker 1: the economy really took a hit after the war and

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Speaker 1: it was not that great economically, and then the sixties

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Speaker 1: come along and things really start to kind of pick

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Speaker 1: up and you have this kind of this first wave

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Speaker 1: of the working class baby boomers or you know that

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Speaker 1: picking up instruments. And it wasn't just the Beatles. It

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Speaker 1: was the Stones and the Animals and the Dave Clark five,

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Speaker 1: and you know a little later, the Kinks and so

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Speaker 1: many English bands that it was remarkable to be growing

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Speaker 1: up at that point in time when there was just

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Speaker 1: this incredible explosion of music. And the Beatles obviously were

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Speaker 1: kind of like the top of the heap because they

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Speaker 1: were the most successful, but they really weren't the only ones.

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Speaker 1: So and my my interests went much broader than them

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Speaker 1: very quickly. And it wasn't like I would sit down

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Speaker 1: and meticulously work out George Harrison's guitar solos. My consciousness was, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's cool, what's the concept behind it, and how do

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Speaker 1: I do that for myself. You're really a bit of

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Speaker 1: a musical historian and musicologist. I was gonna say philosopher.

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Speaker 1: Musicologists actually I'm a guitar ologist. Guitar ologist, so let's

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the covers you do. We have,

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of time to talk about other stuff.

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Speaker 1: Here's my beef with covers in general, covers being a

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Speaker 1: copy of a copy of somebody else's songs reinterpret So

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Speaker 1: either what what I primarily hear is either a note

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Speaker 1: for note recreation, which makes me sort of drug and

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Speaker 1: say why bother, or something that's so far afield it's

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Speaker 1: barely recognizable as the original. And what I love about

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Speaker 1: your covers, especially of the Beatles, is that it's immediately

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Speaker 1: recognizable as the song that it is, but it's a

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Speaker 1: very fresh version of it, and you hear nuances and

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Speaker 1: subtleties in the melodies that you might have overlooked in

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Speaker 1: the full four piece or more band version of it. Well,

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Speaker 1: when you strip it down to the musical elements like that,

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Speaker 1: sometimes it exposes really interesting kind of inner workings of it.

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Speaker 1: But but but here's the thing I mean, there are

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Speaker 1: times when my my interpretations are actually pretty much no accurate.

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Speaker 1: But doing it on the guitar, on a solo guitar,

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Speaker 1: and doing it perhaps for example, with you know, in

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Speaker 1: an alter tuning gives it a different texture, not only

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Speaker 1: a different sonic texture, but sometimes a different emotional texture.

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Speaker 1: It has a different resonance to it. And I think

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Speaker 1: what's really important with with especially with Beetle tunes, is

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Speaker 1: because I play it to an audience who know the words,

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Speaker 1: they know the tune, and there's that unsung part of

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Speaker 1: it where the audience is kind of internalizing that their

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Speaker 1: own experience with it. So there's a kind of a

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Speaker 1: depth to it that goes beyond simply the guitaristic or

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Speaker 1: simply the musical. But I try to be true. I

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Speaker 1: try to be true to the melody the spirit of

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Speaker 1: the original to try and encapsulate it, and sometimes it

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Speaker 1: means changing things because I might find that a particular

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Speaker 1: song has a certain angle to it that perhaps wasn't

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Speaker 1: communicated in the way that it was originally recorded. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, not every Beatle recording is perfect. It's their iconic.

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Speaker 1: I hate to use that word because it's become so overused,

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Speaker 1: but it's appropriate their iconic, but not necessarily entirely perfect

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Speaker 1: for the fabric of the song. You take something like

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Speaker 1: in My Life, you know, and the Beatles great song

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Speaker 1: and that their version of it on Rubber's Soul is

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Speaker 1: very consistent with the style of the album. But that's

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Speaker 1: a song that could be taken so many different ways

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Speaker 1: and has an example. Of course, I'm in the wrong

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Speaker 1: tuning for that, I'm actually in I'm in dad gad

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Speaker 1: tuning d A d g A d um takes something

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Speaker 1: like thing for example. Now, Frank Sinatra covered that tune

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Speaker 1: and I was just kind of tossing that out there.

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Speaker 1: But if I'm going to do an arrangement of it,

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Speaker 1: I'm probably as well as referencing George Harrison's The Beatles version,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to reference Sinatra's version, for example, because that

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Speaker 1: gives me a different place to be. Here's another example, Blackbird,

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Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite. Now, the thing about

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Speaker 1: Blackbird is that, you know, all the guitar players learned that,

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Speaker 1: but that's the accompaniment you can't get the melody in.

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Speaker 1: So I had to reconceive it, you know, just doing

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Speaker 1: it differently. Now I see what you mean by vertical

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Speaker 1: as opposed to. One of my references for that is

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Speaker 1: Kenny Rankin, because I used to do gigs with Kenny

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Speaker 1: and that was one of the tunes that we would

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Speaker 1: play together. And so I'm not just thinking about Paul

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Speaker 1: McCartney singing the song, you know, and Kenny Rankin had

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Speaker 1: this incredible you know, it sounded like I had a

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Speaker 1: French horn in his throat this incredible tone. So you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for a way to articulate the melody that

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Speaker 1: has perhaps a little more horn like quality to it

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Speaker 1: rather than the kind of the liver pudlion tinged McCartney is.

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Speaker 1: M when you've released your first Beatles album, LJ meets

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Speaker 1: the Beatles, and I want to say plays the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: I was in two thousands. What was the response to that?

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Speaker 1: Very good? I mean I got lots of great reviews,

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Speaker 1: who got voted to one of the top ten all

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Speaker 1: time Acoustic Guitar records in Acoustic Guitar magazine, and sold

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Speaker 1: quite well. I mean, for you know, the the acoustic

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Speaker 1: guitar market is not like a huge market. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's comparable with the classical market. You know, typically, like

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Speaker 1: a hit classical music album may sell ten thousand copies,

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Speaker 1: but just says a little crossover to part music. It

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Speaker 1: has crossover and and it it, you know, and it

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Speaker 1: still sells. I mean, I personally recommended it to countless

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Speaker 1: people who are Beatles fan and they all come back

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Speaker 1: and and I get repeat business on that because people

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Speaker 1: wear out the CD. I'm Barry Ridults. You're listening to

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Speaker 1: Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My special guest today

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Speaker 1: is Lawrence Juber. He is a guitarist extraordinaire. Toured the

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Speaker 1: world with Paul McCartney and Wings, has recorded numerous tell

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Speaker 1: vision and movie soundtracks, including the James Bond theme for

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Speaker 1: The Spy Who Loved Me and lots and countless other

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Speaker 1: studio work. Two time Grammy winner. Let's jump into some

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Speaker 1: of the more arcane, technical and altered tunings that you

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Speaker 1: seem to like. Tell us about Dad God Dad God

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Speaker 1: D A D G A D was supposedly developed by

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Speaker 1: Davey Graham, a British guitar player sixties fifty and the

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Speaker 1: Yeah in the late fifties early sixties. It really has

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Speaker 1: a drone tuning for him to jam with Moroccan musicians

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Speaker 1: that got picked up by Jimmy Page, you know, for

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Speaker 1: example cash. You know, it's it lends itself to that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. But what I discovered when I started

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Speaker 1: fooling around with it was that it also has great

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Speaker 1: possibilities in terms of arranging pop music, and not just

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Speaker 1: current pop music, you know, like rock music, but kind

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Speaker 1: of the Great Anglo American songbook in general. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it works. It just works great for all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you can do Cole Porter, Jerome down the whole list. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Gershwin Um and I did an album of Um Harold

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Speaker 1: aland tunes for example, I've got the World on six

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Speaker 1: strings and a number of those students I did in

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Speaker 1: in that tuning because it just kind of lends itself

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Speaker 1: to some really interesting concepts. I mean, you take something

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Speaker 1: like Crimeer River and how the tone and the texture

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Speaker 1: scenarity of it, and it gets these voicings that are

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Speaker 1: very almost pianistic in the way that the notes spread together.

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Speaker 1: Because you have two adjacent scale tones, you have a

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Speaker 1: G N N A, which means that you can get

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Speaker 1: these kind of these kind of pianistic kind of sonarities

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Speaker 1: or or moral orchestral It's it's a way of all

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Speaker 1: orchestrating on the guitar. And then there's also three D

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Speaker 1: strings and two A strings, so octaves again kind of

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Speaker 1: a pianistic kind of approach. Um, and then it lets

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Speaker 1: me do you know where I can use both hands

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Speaker 1: on the fingerboard and get these kind of rhythmic effects.

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Speaker 1: I should be running film in here. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. Oh, you know, there plenty of stuff on YouTube,

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Speaker 1: so you don't bother trying to take that stuff down.

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Speaker 1: The copyright issue isn't in it? Or is it just promoting? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's um some of the interestingly enough, I

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Speaker 1: can't if if it's a cover tune and somebody posts

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Speaker 1: it on YouTube, which they do, you don't have I

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Speaker 1: don't have the right to take it down. The copyright

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Speaker 1: owner of the tune has to take it down. You

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Speaker 1: don't have rights in the performance, no, not, not like

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Speaker 1: you do in the in the copyright. Fascinating. I know,

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Speaker 1: if you can monetize the performance, and how do you

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Speaker 1: because you go out and play it again? Well, or

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Speaker 1: because they you know, if if there's advertising attached to it,

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Speaker 1: then there's some monetization involved. But you know, the fact

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Speaker 1: is that YouTube is gargantuan as it is, and as

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Speaker 1: useful as it is as a promotion is really is

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Speaker 1: a kind of a a nasty beast on the back

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Speaker 1: of intellectual property rights that there have been all sorts

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Speaker 1: of articles recently about people who who have released songs

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Speaker 1: they've gotten two hundred million plays and they get a

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Speaker 1: check for eighty seven dollars. Well, yeah, but it gets

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Speaker 1: a little twisted because the structure now, and we're kind

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Speaker 1: of drifting away from guitar tuns. But the structure of

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Speaker 1: of royalty payments is that you have the mechanical and

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Speaker 1: the synchronization rights which belong to the writers and the publishers.

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Speaker 1: But since the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, you also have

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Speaker 1: a performance royalty. Now, for example, a songwriter may have

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Speaker 1: something played on Spotify or Pandora, which will generate a

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Speaker 1: minute royalty for the writing side, but the royalty for

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Speaker 1: the performer, which doesn't exist in terrestrial radio, but in

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Speaker 1: the digital medium, the royalty for the performer is substantially higher.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very happy when March rolls around and I

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Speaker 1: see my royalty statements from Sound Exchange for airplay that

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Speaker 1: I get on my Christmas music on Pandora, for example.

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Speaker 1: I'm very ridults you're listening to Masters in Business on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My special guests at is Lawrence Duber. He

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Speaker 1: is the two time Grammy Award winning guitarists who toured

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Speaker 1: with Paul McCartney and Wins. He's released twenty three albums,

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Speaker 1: many of which were too critical acclaim. Let's talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about the future of music. Recording isn't the

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Speaker 1: money maker it used to be, So how do musicians

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Speaker 1: make a living today? It's funny being on a Masters

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Speaker 1: of Business show because I was never a Master of Business.

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Speaker 1: I just knew I play guitar and I can get

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Speaker 1: paid this much for this gig. So I never really

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Speaker 1: learned until I worked with McCartney. I never really learned

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Speaker 1: about the music publishing side of things and how the

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Speaker 1: revenue really comes in, not so much from the artists side,

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Speaker 1: but from the writer publisher side, because that's always been

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Speaker 1: governed by statutory royalty rates. So it's not like somebody,

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Speaker 1: well they do. Record companies will still, you know, try

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Speaker 1: and cut you down on the statutory right. But at

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Speaker 1: least you know that there's a copyright try funeral that

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Speaker 1: says there's nine point one since coming to you for

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Speaker 1: every copy of this particular composition that you write and publish.

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Speaker 1: So I learned a lot from working with Paul because

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Speaker 1: he had become even by the late seventies, had really

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Speaker 1: become the largest independent music publisher in the world. You

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Speaker 1: describe yourself as having a masters in music at McCartney Universe.

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Speaker 1: So what did he teach you about about that business side?

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Speaker 1: And it's really in terms of making how you can

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Speaker 1: make money on that side of things too, own your own,

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Speaker 1: your own soul and your own your your material. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I never consider myself to be a composer

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Speaker 1: until that point where it was like, oh, you mean

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Speaker 1: you don't have to just sit there and wait for

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Speaker 1: a bolt of lightning to come from the heavens that

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Speaker 1: you you know, it's it's a job. It's Paul's very

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Speaker 1: has this great work ethic as far as he still

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Speaker 1: a studio, well not just the touring, but I'm going

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Speaker 1: to write I'm going to write a tune today, or

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Speaker 1: I'm going to write a tune this morning and another

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Speaker 1: one this afternoon. I mean, it's you know, it's like

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Speaker 1: what John and Paul did when they sat down and

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Speaker 1: they said, well, once they started making money, it's like,

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Speaker 1: what what should we write today? Well, let's let's write

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Speaker 1: a swimming pool. I had a new roof I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know you because if you have a hit song,

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Speaker 1: I mean that there is you know, that side of

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Speaker 1: the equation is a valuable one. More recently, the performance

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Speaker 1: riot royalties have have kicked in for for players, for

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Speaker 1: performers in a way that never existed in the past,

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Speaker 1: because you as a studio musician, for example, you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: get any kind of back end on radio airplay. But

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Speaker 1: even the artists never got any radio airplay. So as

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Speaker 1: a studio musician you get paid hourly and then you're out. Well,

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Speaker 1: but then there's a musicians union, you know, I'm I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've been in you know, the English Musicians Union. I've

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Speaker 1: been a member of the air for them since the

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Speaker 1: mid seventies. I have a pension coming from, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the work, especially in the TV and movie end

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Speaker 1: of things, that seems to be better structured and more

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Speaker 1: lawyered up to a large extent. Yes, but but it's

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Speaker 1: also it's a evolved now. I mean, there's there are

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Speaker 1: different funds. There's a secondary payments fund where if you

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Speaker 1: play on a movie score, for example, some tiny portion

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Speaker 1: of the of the growth the distributors growth of secondary markets,

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Speaker 1: like if it goes to DVD or you know, that

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Speaker 1: generates payments to musicians, and that's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: that in the dry Spells, that's one of the things

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Speaker 1: that musicians can survive on in l A. It's a

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Speaker 1: really odd situation because you go and work for a

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Speaker 1: studio as a as a musician and play on a

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Speaker 1: movie score. You're an employee, but you're walking in there

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Speaker 1: with perhaps with a two hundred thousand dollar violin. You know,

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Speaker 1: your you have your you bring your own equipment to

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Speaker 1: the table. You you kind of are defined really as

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Speaker 1: an independent contractor by anything except the fact that the

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Speaker 1: studio says, no, you're an employee because you're doing this

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Speaker 1: work for higher and you know, a lot of us,

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Speaker 1: a lot of us end up with you know, with

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Speaker 1: corporations so that you can work that better. What's happened

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Speaker 1: is as as the revenue from records else has dropped off,

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Speaker 1: what has kicked in as well as the digital royalty

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Speaker 1: streams for performers is also all the licensing stuff. So

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Speaker 1: that my daughter Elsie is a songwriter and she co

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Speaker 1: wrote a song called Fireball for Pitball, which was a

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Speaker 1: hit a couple of years ago, and that got licensed

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Speaker 1: by a Spanish telecom company for a for a commercial

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Speaker 1: for example, and so everybody that participated that, the writers

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Speaker 1: and the publishers, all get you some piece of it.

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Speaker 1: Plus the performance. The TV performances generate performance royalties on

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Speaker 1: the writer side, so that gets processed through B M

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Speaker 1: I R s CAP or whatever their their membership is.

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Speaker 1: So you have to kind of learn how to be

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Speaker 1: cognizant of the revenue streams and then which used to

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Speaker 1: be CD sales and now it sounds it's like composition

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Speaker 1: and performance, except that, you know, if you were an

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00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: artist and not the writer, your record royalties were never

429
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: really that great because record companies would always find ways

430
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: to cross collateralize or to to you know, to take

431
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: promotional budgets out of your royalty stream or use controlled

432
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: composition claus as where yeah, there may be fourteen tracks

433
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: on your album, but we're only going to pay you

434
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: for ten kinds of things. You know, where that there

435
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: are you know, there's always the lawyer loyally side of that.

436
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: Not a very nice business, was it never was a

437
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 1: nice business. The opportunities are there, and there are some

438
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: people that have been making actually decent money from YouTube videos.

439
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: For example, if you if you understand how to monetize

440
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: that stuff. So the the opportunities are there, But the

441
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 1: problem is that you go study music in a conservatory

442
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: that will teach you about how to make a living

443
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: doing it. You know, one of my pet peeves is

444
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: that you go study classical guitar. You can come out

445
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: after three or four years of conservatory and not know

446
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 1: how to string a chord sequence together or know how

447
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: to put repertoire together to play at a wedding, for example,

448
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: which may be outside of teaching. The only real avenue

449
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: for for making a living is doing those kind of

450
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: live performances. Because if you're a classical guitar player, there

451
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: are maybe fifteen classical guitar players in the world who

452
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: can make living as concert performance. So, you know, teaching

453
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: and and playing local gigs becomes a viable way of

454
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: making a living. That's really, really quite interesting. So we've

455
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: heard over the years horrible stories about problems with managers

456
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: stealing from their clients. Why is it that it always

457
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: seems that big names to people like Billy Joel and

458
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: I think Sting had an issue and it's a whole

459
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: one of Philly Joel in particular, because I mean his

460
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: manager AARTI RiPP had the perfect name. You know, that

461
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: should have been a warning early on, don't have a

462
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: business nap manager names Rip. So so why is this

463
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: always seem to be millions of dollars? Later we discover

464
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: our our artists not watching their dollars that closely, that

465
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: millions could go out the door before anyone notices that.

466
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: How how can you if you're also full time writing, recording, touring,

467
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: doing all of the stuff that goes along with it, interviews, um,

468
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: photo sessions, everything that. You know what Joni Mitchell described

469
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: as the the star making machinery behind the popular song

470
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: It's a full time job. It was remarkable in Wings

471
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: that Linda McCartney could be a full time band member

472
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: and a mother of four kids. You know, it was

473
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: it was hard for her and that was really the

474
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: the final demise of the band was that it just

475
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: became too much and the band was always Paul and

476
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: Linda's band. So it's just it's difficult to take care

477
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: of the creative business and take care of the business business.

478
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: I've managed to be able to kind of balance the two,

479
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: you know, the right brain and the left brain side

480
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: of things. But It took me a long time to

481
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: understand how to do it, and I'm still not that

482
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: good at it, but I'm getting better now. I've just

483
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: started my own record label, which means for my next release,

484
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: which is a Christmas album, I had to license a

485
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: certain number of tunes. So I got to Harry Fox's

486
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: website and I buy licenses. And then I discovered that

487
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: sleigh Ride, written by le Roy Anderson, isn't handled by

488
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: the Harry Fox agencies, so I had to then contact

489
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: his family, who then put me in touch with BMG

490
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: and I got mechanical license there, and just those kinds

491
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: of things that you know somebody in an office has

492
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: to do well, I just know. But but the technology

493
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: now has allowed me to be able to stand and

494
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: I have a standing desk. I don't sit in my

495
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 1: studio when I'm playing guitar UM. I can sit there,

496
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: stand there, and I can you know, in one screen,

497
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 1: I can be taking care of that business. On another screen,

498
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: I can be doing a guitar arrangement or writing UM

499
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: an article for a guitar magazine or something like that.

500
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: That the ability to multitask, I think has made it

501
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: a lot easier. But when it comes to the kind

502
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: of the higher level of things in terms of dealing

503
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: with finances and the fact that wealth can come very

504
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: quickly and having good wealth management is not anything that

505
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: a music student is necessarily taught how to do, or

506
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: in a spiring pop star, especially the younger pop stars.

507
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,479
Speaker 1: I mean that you know they're lucky when they've got

508
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: a parent that's kind of keeping oversight. So for people

509
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: who want to find more of your writings and music,

510
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: I usually send people to Lawrence Jubber dot com, l

511
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: AU any other place or any other things that they

512
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: would want to look for or at. Well, that's a

513
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: good place to start. And you can always just do

514
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: a search on YouTube and find all kinds of stuff.

515
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm constantly finding stuff on youtual. I found

516
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,479
Speaker 1: I found on my Wikipedia page. I discovered the Charles

517
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: as Nevore album that I played on in Paris in

518
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven was number one in France for almost

519
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: an entire year, and I had no idea I actually

520
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: read that I found it on my Wikipedia page because

521
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: I don't, you know, I never put that up. Somebody

522
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: put it up. I mean, I've I've gone in there

523
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: and I've kind of tweaked a few things. And that's

524
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: the problem is not only now do you have to

525
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: deal with the creative side, you also have to deal

526
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: with the social network side and the web, the eber

527
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: presence aspect of things too. And I've always pretty much

528
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: tried to manage myself with all of this because I

529
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: had a business manager in England and it, you know,

530
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: it did not end well. And it's like, Okay, I'm

531
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: not going down that route again. And I like being

532
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: hands on and that's something I learned. Another thing I

533
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: learned from Paul is how much he really kind of

534
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: his hands on with what he does. We've been speaking

535
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: with Lawrence Duber, guitarist for Paul McCartney. Thank you, l

536
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: J for being so generous with your time. If you

537
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: enjoyed this conversation, be sure and check out our podcast Actors,

538
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: where we keep the digital tape rolling and continue chatting

539
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: about all things financial and music. Be sure and check

540
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: out my daily column on Bloomberg dot com or follow

541
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Riolts. I'm Barry Ridholts. You've been

542
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. Are you

543
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: looking to take your business to the next level. The accounting, tax,

544
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: and advisory professionals from cone Resnick can guide you. Cone

545
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: Resnick delivers industry expertise and forward thinking perspective that can

546
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 1: help turn business possibilities into business opportunities. Look ahead, gain insight,

547
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: imagine more. Is your business ready to break through? Learn

548
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: more at cone Resnick dot com slash Breakthrough, cone Resnick Accounting, Tax,

549
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: Advisory Lawrence. Thank you so much for doing this. This

550
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 1: has really been an absolute pleasure, and there's so much

551
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: stuff to go over. Um, let's jump right into the

552
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: crazy copyright stuff that's going on. So last year we

553
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: had or two years ago, we had the Marvin Gay

554
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: bloodlines issue. Uh, not too long ago, there was a

555
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: huge Bloomberg story about the Stairway to Heaven copyright issue.

556
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: And then just recently there was another big copyright Yeah,

557
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: the at and photograph one. It's the same lawyer that

558
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: did the blurredlines. Not to be confused with the Tom

559
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: Petty um issue. Well, yeah, that was I won't back

560
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: down the Sam Smith one, which which was clearly and

561
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Tom Petty agreed, or rather Sam Smith agreed that there would.

562
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: But see the thing about it is that there are

563
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 1: there are there's musical substance. That is, it works in

564
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: such a way that sometimes you can accomplish you can

565
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: get to the same place from completely different roots. UM.

566
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: And you see that UM for example, I mean with

567
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: the Stairway to Heaven case that is going to Trial,

568
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: which seemed to be based on very similar classical exactly

569
00:34:50,360 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: the um the Spirit song Tourists, which uses this UM,

570
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: uses this kind of figuration which actually, if you if

571
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 1: you break it down musically, actually is the same as um. UM.

572
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: While my guitar gently weeps, oh really, but it doesn't

573
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: have the melod doesn't have the same melody. Car but

574
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: but neither of them came first. I mean you can

575
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: go back. But but Stairway to Heaven see Stairway to

576
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: Heaven goes down chromatically. You can do the same thing

577
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: with my funny out Valentine. You know you can do

578
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: that same thing. Um. You can do that kind of progression.

579
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: And when you do a progression like that here you

580
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: have an A with an octave A above it, you

581
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: go down to the G sharp the harmony note is

582
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: that now now you're going to find that in a

583
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,879
Speaker 1: music textbook. You know, that's part of the substance that's

584
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: the public domain aspect of music. You could there's a

585
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: there's a composition, you can find it on YouTube. There's

586
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: a sonata for guitar and violin from six nine by

587
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: an Italian composer named Grenada, which has that phrase shows

588
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: up thirty seconds into it. You know, it's it's not

589
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: a unique phrase by any means. And it's not the

590
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: same phrase in the in the Spirit song because it's

591
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: using the same kind of a pegiation. But that's a

592
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 1: guitaristic thing. So you're a little skeptical on well, I'm

593
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: skeptical on I'm skeptical on it because, Okay, so there's

594
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: a there's a finger picture acoustic guitar, and there are

595
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: recorders on the on the Spirit tune, and there's recorders

596
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: on the stairway to have it, and there's a moment

597
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: where they there's a very similar sonority. Yeah, there's an overlap,

598
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: and Jimmy Page had access because Zeppelin open for Spirit

599
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 1: while they were performing that song. But it doesn't write

600
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: to me. It it doesn't right to the level of

601
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: copyright infringement when it comes to the actual composition. Could

602
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: it come to that level in regards to the the

603
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: feel the sound and feel of the recording, perhaps, but

604
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: does does that really apply? But a musicologist could draw

605
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 1: the conclusion and swear a jury, And the reality is

606
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: that a jury of one's peers in this particular instance

607
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: should really be all rock and roll famous in order

608
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: to be able to to have a true, a true

609
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: evaluation of it. It just goes to the fact that

610
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: intellectual property is probably best not tried in front of

611
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 1: a jury like that, because the nuances of it are

612
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: beyond easy explanation. I was a little perplexed. Look, I'm

613
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: a Marvin Gay fan, but I also who didn't love

614
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: the line song that was everywhere? But I didn't really

615
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: see that, not really, let's let's not even let's not

616
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 1: even hedge it. I did not see one as having

617
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: ripped off the other. There's a flavor, Yeah, there's a groove.

618
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: There's a groove flavor to it. But putting a cow

619
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: bell on a track does not does not represent a

620
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 1: breach of copyright. And I read the musicologist report. You know,

621
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 1: I studied musicology. I read the musicologist report. You could

622
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: take Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star and show how there's an

623
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: alignment of notes that corresponds in such a way that

624
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: you could perhaps persuade an audience that song A was

625
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: derived from that, you know, but it was the cow

626
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: bell that gave it that field, But that cow bell.

627
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: But but the judge wouldn't let the jury listen to

628
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: the record. The judgment was not on the basis of

629
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: the record. The judgment was on the basis of the composition,

630
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 1: which was not the same thing. So I I personally

631
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: thought that that was that opened a can of worms,

632
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: as I haven't yet looked into the edge shereh and

633
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 1: one that that just came up on my radar earlier

634
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: this morning. And I'm, you know, just busy running around,

635
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: but I want to look into that because I have

636
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: a suspicion that what's happening is that there's this movement

637
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 1: to try and open up that area. But you know,

638
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: for example, you take you take the Bau Diddley, You feel, well,

639
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: how many records, how many songs have used like that?

640
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: What are you going with that? You're going to give

641
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: Bo Diddley royalties because they took the groove, you know,

642
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: but all music is based on what has come before,

643
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: So then you could look at you know, Ernest Confeld,

644
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: the great film composer. You listen to some of his

645
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: music and you put that next to John Williams Star Wars,

646
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 1: and you can hear where John Williams got it from.

647
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 1: Is it Is it an actual breach of copy? Right? Well,

648
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: if you're an aggressive lawyer with a with an aggressive musicologist,

649
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: you could possibly make that case. But there has to

650
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: be a recognition somewhere that there's a line that there

651
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 1: are only a certain number of notes, there are only

652
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: a certain number of grooves, and there's only a certain

653
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: kind of sonarity. Does the sonority of a fingerpick guitar

654
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: and a recorder really right to the level of a

655
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: copyright infringement? You could say there's a blurred line, but

656
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: I won't go yeah, that's a terrible pot so um, well,

657
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: but be in blurredlines case, of course, they opened the

658
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: writers opened the can of worms by um by preemptively

659
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 1: seeking relief against being sued because they knew that they would.

660
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: They anticipated that that was gonna I think that and

661
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: again not to go on Marvin Gaye, but they did

662
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: hear through the grapevine that lawsuit was a lawsuit was coming.

663
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: I mean, that was really supposed to be out there,

664
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: so once once we're I think the family reached out

665
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: to them and that's why they that's why they did

666
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: a preemptent um. The writer hit get a writ is

667
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: the among songwriters because it happens so often now. But

668
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: but a lot of these lawsuits, I just I think

669
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: they I don't know whether they rise to the level

670
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: of abusive process. But you know, when it's somebody should

671
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: come close, Yeah, when it's somebody's like you know, said, well,

672
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: you know this this little riff clearly was taken from

673
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 1: my my song. You know, there was the one with

674
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: Madonna Madonna record where the judge said, you know this

675
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: horn stab was so diminimous that they're not going to

676
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 1: that doesn't constitute something that needed to be licensed, is

677
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: to the even the the original recording copyright owners didn't

678
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: notice for twenty years, you know that. George Harrison, my

679
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: my sweet lord. You know this is a little bit there.

680
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: But the songs are so different. But Alan sobias. But

681
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: Alan Klein was on both sides of the laws suit.

682
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: How is that the publishing on he's so fine, the Chiffons,

683
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: he's so fine. And he was also managing, So who

684
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: brought who brought that suit. I think he did. I

685
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: don't remember the exact dat. He was on both side

686
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: of it. All right, So I only have you for

687
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: a limited amount of time, and I have lots of questions,

688
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: all right, but I have to I have to play

689
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: a little bit of Let you play a little music,

690
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: and this time I'm actually gonna remember to record it.

691
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 1: I'm retuning. So which way are you going? I'm going

692
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: back to dad Gad. I wasn't standard tuning. Just how

693
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: often are you in standard tuning half the time? Oh? Really? Yeah,

694
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: I'd still live there, right, It's just that, um My

695
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: my second home is dad Gad. I thought that was

696
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,479
Speaker 1: in California. By the way, how do you like being

697
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: in to paraphrase the sting song, how do you like

698
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 1: being an Englishman in California? Oh? I love being in California,

699
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: whether the geography, everything about it. It's just I mean,

700
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: my roots have become so entrenched there. I mean, you know,

701
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: I've got two daughters and two grandchildren. It's like I

702
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine going back to England, not just in terms

703
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 1: of the weather, but also just being in America always

704
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: seems like you can get more things done. There's always

705
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: there's always a certain inertia in English, although there's a

706
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: difference between I was gonna say, is that true in

707
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: Europe in general? To some extent? I was just in

708
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: Italy and I was shocked to find that half of

709
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 1: Italy does the siesta like Spain does that. That was

710
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: always a alright, so I'm going to record this man

711
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: that I put her on video instead of a photo. Okay,

712
00:43:50,320 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: I saw her standing there. I have to put this

713
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: down to applaud fantastic. So that was great. So now,

714
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: but here's an example that baseline Paul got it from

715
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: a Chuck Berry record. Okay, no copyright on a baseline

716
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: like that. So how long does it take for you

717
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: to take that original song and then rearrange it in

718
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 1: a to this guitar, this tuning. It could be it

719
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 1: could be ten minutes, It could be three months. It

720
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: just depends on Yeah, so I know again, another really

721
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: surprising song is I Am the Walrisk. Yeah, that took

722
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: a while. I was gonna say, you could hear. You

723
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,799
Speaker 1: could hear a lot of of of effort and love

724
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: went into putting that together. Again, it starts with the orchestration,

725
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: not what you expect to hear, let's let's get a

726
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: little bit of that before we try a few originals.

727
00:48:03,120 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: Wol fantastic. What are they going to start making a

728
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: Martin acoustic with a wammy bar? Because I get that.

729
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: So you're you're just doing it that way without the

730
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: actual parts. It's called I call it the virtual wammy

731
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: it is a virtual So so let's talk about some

732
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: of the other stuff that you've recorded, and again I

733
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 1: know I have we have to, So I mentioned I

734
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: want to talk about some of the originals, but I

735
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: would be remiss if I didn't talk a little bit

736
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 1: about the Wings album. You did, you said? Paul actually

737
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: had suggested this. Well, gave him LJ plays the Beatles,

738
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: and he said, well what about Wings? You know, because

739
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: it's a publisher. He kind of like, you cant help

740
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 1: like people who recording. So I was a huge Beatles

741
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: fan growing up, heartbroken ten when the Beatles break up,

742
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: but harder nine years, all but heartbroken. And then when

743
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: some of the Beatles songs, some of the Wings songs

744
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 1: came out, and you know, everybody loves Admiral Halsey, Uncle

745
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 1: Hal and there's a handful of songs from the from

746
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: Jet and Live and Let Die, And there's whole bunch

747
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: of stuff that's great, But there was some early songs

748
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: of his that when we first heard them, it's like,

749
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: you know, it really needs the acid wash of John

750
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: two offsets Paul's sweetness. But your covers completely changed my

751
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: perspective on it. So silly love songs, maybe I'm malaised

752
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: my love. Listen to what the man said. I always

753
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 1: thought of these as very light pop confesstion, not serious music.

754
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 1: Your covers of those reveal we talked earlier about, you

755
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: referenced revealing certain emotional resonances and nuances that may have

756
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: gotten lost in in the orchestration. And you've made me

757
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: relook these songs that I kinda that's fluff, because they're

758
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 1: really not. They're beautiful melodies. You know, you look at

759
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: any of the Great American Songbook songs, you know, just

760
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: putting aside the Anglo American aspects of it. You look

761
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: at Gershwin or Jerome Kern or Harold Allen. None of

762
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: these writers were singers. You know, there were a few,

763
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: I mean, um uh you you know, um Jogi Carmichael,

764
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: for example, but but typically you know, they wrote songs

765
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: for other people to sing. The idea of the songwriter

766
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: as the artist making the records was was really a

767
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 1: sixties phenomenon. I mean, the Beatles were really the first,

768
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: one of the first bands, certainly the first band to

769
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: achieve that level of success. Um who wrote their own material.

770
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: And and that was a battle they had to fight

771
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: at the beginning with George Martin, because you know, they said,

772
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: George Martin said, here's the song you're going to record,

773
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: and they said no, and they did it begrudgingly, and

774
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: they ended up, you know, how do you do it?

775
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: Jerry and the Pacemakers had a big hit with the

776
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: Mickey Most song. They said, we want to do our

777
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,839
Speaker 1: own songs, and we're writing songs that are good enough

778
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,320
Speaker 1: to do, you know, and you when you go back

779
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 1: in history and you realize that, you know, these composers

780
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: were writing for other people. We've become so um enamored

781
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: of the Beatles versions of the songs that to be

782
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,400
Speaker 1: able to take them and and strip it down to

783
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: the same kind of musical fabric as you would get

784
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 1: with a Gershwin song, or or an Island song or

785
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: at your own current song, um then becomes an illuminating

786
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: experience because the nature of the music of it, which

787
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: is which is lovely. Yeah, it's lovely, and it's you

788
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: know the what it's it's and it's it's so it's

789
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: so nuanced, and it's so musically clever without being obviously clever.

790
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: But you have to kind of strip away the familiar

791
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: and paulse voice is so familiar, and you've heard it

792
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: so many times it's easy to lose track of what

793
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: what the underneath of that is that the only comparison

794
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: I could think of. I was a huge Pretender's fan.

795
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: I love the band, Love Chrissie Hines and they She

796
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: ultimately released an album I think was called Isle of

797
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 1: You that's horror and a string quartet in front of

798
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: an audience, a string quartet, And similarly, you discover, wow,

799
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: these aren't just you know, headbanging rock and roll. So

800
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 1: they're a beautiful right and and in in a number

801
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: of ways, you've forced me to relook at a number

802
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,799
Speaker 1: of songs that I always kind of, you know, shrugged off,

803
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: especially the wing songs. That little that little stands you

804
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 1: just played. That's a lovely little melody, and it's too

805
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: easy to dismiss it as that's just a pop song

806
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: until you hear it in that context. But you know, um,

807
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,279
Speaker 1: I Got Rhythm is just a pop song until you

808
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 1: hear it sung by you know, Tony Bennett or somebody.

809
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 1: I mean, it's these are vehicles for interpretation and that,

810
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: you know. And it's not like there aren't a million

811
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: cover songs of Beatles records. You know, a lot of

812
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 1: them have just kind of got lost over the years.

813
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, you have to rediscover it's not just um,

814
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,320
Speaker 1: Joe Cocker doing with a little help from my friends,

815
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,839
Speaker 1: for example, which is you know, one of those iconom

816
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of them, you know, you know,

817
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: but it runs into that problem if it's too exacting,

818
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: why bother? And if it's so far afield. I mean,

819
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: Joe Cocker made that his own, but there are so

820
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: many covers you here, and it's like, well, you know

821
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: that it's a business. I mean, the fact is that

822
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: you have an artist, you have a record company, you

823
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,799
Speaker 1: have an artist in repertoire, and our person who says, okay,

824
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: we have to put together a repertoire for this album,

825
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 1: and and it's just how do you bring something fresh

826
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: to it? Um? And it depends on the artist. It

827
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: depends on the artist tree involved. So speaking of artistry,

828
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: let's talk about some of your original songs. And in

829
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: the last five or ten minutes we have I just

830
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: have five, and then I would there's a number of

831
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: questions I haven't even remotely gotten to. So let me

832
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 1: ask you two quick questions before we get to your

833
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 1: uh some some of my favorite stuff of yours. So

834
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: you're in the business of being a professional musician. What

835
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: do you do when a recent college grad comes to

836
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,560
Speaker 1: you and says, I'm thinking of a career in music.

837
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: What what sort of advice would you give to that person?

838
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: I would say, don't think about it, do it really

839
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: despite all the changes and the challenges, and just be

840
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: be educated, be aware of where the revenue streams are,

841
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: be aware of how difficult it is to make a

842
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 1: living as a musician, and be properly prepared for it. See,

843
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: I think that what happens is you get a lot

844
00:57:56,360 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 1: of people who base their musical education on emulate ing

845
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: somebody else without having the foundation two to build a

846
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 1: career on. You know, there was a time when you could,

847
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: perhaps you know, back in the sixties or the fifties,

848
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: you could hear somebody and say, oh, I can do that,

849
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: and you know, be do your own version of Johnny

850
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 1: Cash or Elvis or whatever. But now you know the

851
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: music businesses so that the real kind of money end

852
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: of the business is so focused on a certain segment

853
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: of audience in terms of you know, basically kind of

854
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: preteens and teens. And you know, if you're a female

855
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: artist and you're over the age of twenty, then your

856
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: your chances of getting signed to a record deal diminish

857
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: quite rapidly. Um. One of the reasons my daughter Elsie

858
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,959
Speaker 1: really focused on the songwriting side of it, because it's

859
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: if you make inroads as a songwriter, then you have

860
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: more freedom as an artist. You know, it depends whether

861
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 1: you want to be a pop star when you whether

862
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: you want to be an artist. And I think the

863
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 1: advice I would give is what are your goals? Do

864
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: you simply want to be up on stage with lights

865
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 1: and and um and group is and you know, is

866
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: it just the glamor of it that that attracts you

867
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: or is it a serious desire to make music and

868
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: to make that your focus and and you know, so

869
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: I think it's important to set realistic goals. Um, and

870
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: it is possible to make money as a musician, but

871
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, if you join a band and you go

872
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: out on the road, don't expect to at least not

873
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 1: straight away. So that leads me to a question I

874
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: asked all my guests, which which is simply, what do

875
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: you know today that you wish you knew when you

876
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: started let's pull it years ago? I think I wish

877
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 1: that I had been better informed about the writing and

878
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 1: the publishing side of it so that I could have

879
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: started that earlier. But I did it when I did it,

880
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: and that's that's fine. So speaking of which, let's let's

881
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: get one more tune from you before you have to

882
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: go out, which is what what is your favorite original?

883
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 1: In terms of that's like asking which one is my

884
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: favorite kids? Okay, I won't ask you that, but I

885
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: will say what's your favorite not your favorite song? What's

886
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: your favorite original song? To play? What do you have

887
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: the most fun playing? Which is a different question. It

888
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: is a different question. And um, and I do notice

889
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: when I when I saw you at the Cunning Room,

890
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: you look like you're having a ball playing. Oh yeah,

891
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: let me let me do this one because it's a

892
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: It's a tune called catch and it's just it's I

893
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,240
Speaker 1: usually open the show with it because it just kicks

894
01:00:45,280 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: everything into games. M kokoo fantastic. I have the greatest

895
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: job in finance, Larry, Thank you so much for being Larry.

896
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: Where did that come from? LJ? Thank you so much

897
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,439
Speaker 1: for being so generous with your time. Um, if you've

898
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 1: enjoyed terrific. If you've enjoyed this conversation, be sure and

899
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 1: look up an inch or down an inch for any

900
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,880
Speaker 1: of the other nineties seven or so conversations we've had.

901
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: Be sure and check out all of l j's music

902
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: and books and everything else at Lawrence Juber dot com.

903
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: You've been listening to Masters and Guitar on Bloomberg Radio.

904
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: Look Ahead Imagine more. Gain insight for your industry with

905
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 1: forward thinking advice from the professionals at Cone Resnick. Is

906
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: your business ready to break through? Find out more at

907
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: Cone Resnick dot com Slash Breakthrough