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Speaker 1: A warning. This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations

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Speaker 1: about suicide that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners.

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Speaker 1: If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward

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Speaker 1: to the end of this episode to find out where

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Speaker 1: help is available. Okay, lady gentlemen, I want to go

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Speaker 1: ahead and switch play over to Jeroboarding Lane Jered Barding

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Speaker 1: lanz Z one number five.

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Speaker 2: For how quickte you some week. I'm with Sarah Centricision.

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Speaker 1: So it's been a couple of weeks since our last

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Speaker 1: episode came out. The reason we needed to take a

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Speaker 1: break was so that I could go back to Kansas

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Speaker 1: City to conduct a couple of interviews, including one with

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Speaker 1: the other person at the very center of this story. Okay, so,

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Speaker 1: first question, probably the easiest question of the day. If

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Speaker 1: you can say and spell your name for transcription.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Kelly k E L L Y Moffatt Moffett.

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Speaker 1: What will Kelly reveal in this first of two parts interview?

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Speaker 1: Will it tip the scales in this most tragic of

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Speaker 1: he said, she said, I'm Leah Rothman. This is the

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Speaker 1: real killer. Episode thirteen. My youth is over. After more

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Speaker 1: than a year of emailing and most recently texting with

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Speaker 1: Kelly Moffatt, and after she listened to the previous twelve episodes,

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Speaker 1: which include what her former boyfriend Byron Case has had

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Speaker 1: to say about her, Kelly informs me she's now ready

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Speaker 1: to tell her side. Kelly is a bit late for

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Speaker 1: our pre arranged at noon start time. She jokes she'd

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Speaker 1: be late to her own funeral. When she arrives at

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Speaker 1: my second floor Airbnb, I'm surprised by how tall Kelly is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm short, but she is definitely taller than

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Speaker 1: I imagined. Kelly says she's nervous. Hell, I'm nervous too.

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Speaker 1: We eventually sit down at the dining room table with

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Speaker 1: the Starbucks coffees I got us and begin our conversation.

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Speaker 1: First things first, Kelly, I just want to say thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for agreeing to talk with me today.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. The more I thought about it, I'm

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Speaker 2: just this is about Anastasia. To me, this is about

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Speaker 2: him wasting resources that are desperately needed for people that

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Speaker 2: are actually wrongfully convicted. And I'm just, frankly just I'm

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Speaker 2: just sick of him slandering me and just the way

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Speaker 2: that things are represented.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's been more than a decade since Kelly

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Speaker 1: has spoken publicly. What you're about to hear is a raw, intimate, emotional,

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Speaker 1: and at times meandering discussion that keeps me on the

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Speaker 1: edge of my seat. So you have been listening to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, what are some of the things that stood

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Speaker 1: out to you?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, Byron has not changed whatsoever, like

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Speaker 2: literally at all, with the cadence of his boys, how

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Speaker 2: he delivers things, and it felt like he was like

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Speaker 2: the same teenager or whatever that I knew. And just

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Speaker 2: his coldness about certain things, his coldness about Justin's death,

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Speaker 2: him act this is gonna get me upset. Sorry, him

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Speaker 2: pretending to be upset about it in Aastasia calling her Stasia,

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Speaker 2: which was like reserved for her family and people that

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Speaker 2: loved her and stuff. I just like, he never ceases

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Speaker 2: to amaze me with just like I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, do you sit in your jail set? Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean, of course in prison you have nothing but time,

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Speaker 2: But I'm like, do you really sit in your jail

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Speaker 2: cell and like practice these deliveries and stuff? Because I

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Speaker 2: know he's guilty.

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Speaker 1: Let's start not the beginning beginning. But tell me a

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Speaker 1: little bit about meeting Justin and Anastasia and Byron. Byron

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Speaker 1: tells the story of how you all met at the

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Speaker 1: coffee shop. Just tell me a little bit what you

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Speaker 1: remember from Okay, I met.

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Speaker 2: Justin first, and I don't even remember how we started talking.

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Speaker 2: So he was just kind of he had the type

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Speaker 2: of personality where he would just sit by people and

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Speaker 2: be like, so, what's your story? You know, I remember, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just ran into him over and over again, and

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Speaker 2: at the coffeehouses. Yeah, at well, specifically at Broadway Cafe. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: just got to know him on like a superficial level

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Speaker 2: and then kind of a broader level because he got

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Speaker 2: to where like I would go over to his apartment

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Speaker 2: and stuff. But he wasn't creepy towards me anyway. So

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Speaker 2: that's how I started knowing and hanging out with Justin

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Speaker 2: because he was just like a fixture at the coffee shop.

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Speaker 2: And at that point I was too. I'd go after school.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were so young, I know.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that biz our. I had a friend that was

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Speaker 2: like the youngest of like four or five sisters. I

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Speaker 2: forget now. The older girls all hung out at that

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Speaker 2: coffee shop. So it was more like, Oh, take Kelly

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Speaker 2: and Rachel with you so that you're not bored, YadA YadA.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, now I can't. I'm I think that's

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Speaker 2: completely insane. I knew Justin, and then I remember I

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Speaker 2: started seeing him and Byron hanging out more and more.

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Speaker 2: But Byron was also like very well known down there,

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Speaker 2: just because he's such a I mean, the man can

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Speaker 2: get drunk on the sound of his own voice pretty much.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure you realized that interviewing him.

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Speaker 2: You know, he doesn't go buy cigarettes. He goes to

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Speaker 2: a tobacconist. You know, he hadn't seen a lot of movies.

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Speaker 2: He was a sin thephile, and just that's just how

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Speaker 2: he always was about everything. Well, when I first started

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Speaker 2: seeing him around, I just assumed he was gay, not

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Speaker 2: that there's anything. I'm very liberal politically, that had nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with anything. He just presented himself as very

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Speaker 2: the other way. Then he started hanging out with Justin

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Speaker 2: all the time, and I remember being kind of concerned

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Speaker 2: from that about that, even from the beginning, because Justin

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Speaker 2: was just very, very lost. Justin was like a big

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Speaker 2: kid and couldn't really figure out what he was doing

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Speaker 2: with his life. You know, his parents had means back then.

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Speaker 2: It was weird. It was kind of specifically felt like

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Speaker 2: this back then, especially down in West part and stuff.

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Speaker 2: It was like you couldn't just be a person that

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Speaker 2: hung out at a coffee shop. You needed almost like

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Speaker 2: an origin story and you needed to And byrondeferent Lily

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Speaker 2: was like a character. You know, he had his I

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Speaker 2: don't believe hardly any of it, but he just had

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Speaker 2: his origin story about like you know, his mom was

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Speaker 2: German and his father was gay. Everything with Byron was

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Speaker 2: just like over the top, just either to be shocking,

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Speaker 2: to evoke sympathy, just anything. I think Justin was very

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Speaker 2: confused about who he was. It was just it was

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Speaker 2: a very bad combination because I think Justin just bought

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Speaker 2: into Byron's persona and everything like hook Line and Sinker,

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Speaker 2: and I think he was also immature enough and mentally

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Speaker 2: ill enough to where he just wanted that in his life.

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Speaker 2: He was lonely, he was bored, so not only getting

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Speaker 2: like a best friend, but like getting a best friend

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Speaker 2: that was this whatever who had this reputation and was

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Speaker 2: either gay or bisexual or this or that.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you. So, Byron said, you were fourteen.

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Speaker 1: You were in in the eighth grade when you guys

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Speaker 1: first met, you were fourteen? Were you thirteen or fourteen?

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Speaker 2: Now, don't quote me on this, but I swear because

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Speaker 2: we met her for this summer, but I'm not exactly positive.

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Speaker 2: But how I remember how we met, which I thought

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Speaker 2: it was hysterical that he was like, oh, I had

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Speaker 2: no idea how old she was, and by then I

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Speaker 2: was into deep YadA YadA. No. The way that I

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Speaker 2: met Byron was I was already kind of tipsy and

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Speaker 2: I had gotten we had gotten dropped off down there

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Speaker 2: with some booze with a friend of mine's. A friend

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Speaker 2: of mine's mom had bought us booze and dropped us

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Speaker 2: off down there. There was so much I don't know,

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Speaker 2: Abs and Tee parents still have to do with all

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Speaker 2: this stuff. But and I remember specifically, I would always

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Speaker 2: look over and buy room and be like staring at

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Speaker 2: me when I was talking to Justin or he was

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Speaker 2: just very I could very much tell that he was like,

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Speaker 2: you know, his radar was on me. So I jokingly

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Speaker 2: went up to him and I said, Hey, do you

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Speaker 2: want to get drunk with a bunch of soon to

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Speaker 2: be eighth graders And he kind of laughed and then

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Speaker 2: he's like, well, sure, and so he ended up driving

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Speaker 2: us around that night while we drank. He drank too,

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Speaker 2: and then he and I started talking and he asked

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Speaker 2: for my phone number and stuff like that. So that's

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Speaker 2: how we actually met.

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Speaker 1: So the story that Byron tells, which was that you

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Speaker 1: guys were at the coffeehouse and you came over and

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Speaker 1: said hi to Justin, and then you guys all went

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Speaker 1: over to Justin's later that night to watch a movie

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Speaker 1: and then he drove you home. That's not the first

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Speaker 1: time you ever met.

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Speaker 2: No, I vividly remember gret as me saying, hey, do

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Speaker 2: you want to get drunk with a bunch of soon

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Speaker 2: to be eighth graders?

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Speaker 1: What were some of early memories of meeting Anastasia.

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Speaker 2: I had never heard of Anastasia. Byron's version that he

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Speaker 2: and Anastasia were friends is a bunch of crap. Byron

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Speaker 2: said he introduced Justin and Anastasia. No, he did not.

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Speaker 2: I remember there was one night when we were going

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Speaker 2: over to Justin's house and Byron saw a framed picture

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Speaker 2: of Anastasia in Justin's apartment and it was like her

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Speaker 2: senior picture. Byron was like why, he was like, I

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Speaker 2: know her. He goes, why do you have a picture

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Speaker 2: of her in your apartment? He's like, I went to

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Speaker 2: Lincoln Preparatory with her. And Justin was like, oh, well

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Speaker 2: we've been dating blah blah blah, and it was, uh, Byron,

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Speaker 2: let Justin know that he was not very impressed with

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Speaker 2: her and whatever, and he's like, really, I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: surprised by that, blah blah blah. But that's that's about

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Speaker 2: as for as far as that conversation went. But like

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Speaker 2: I said, Byron had such influence over Justin that I

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Speaker 2: remember being like, oh great, And then later on one

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Speaker 2: on one Byron would just tell me stuff about how,

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Speaker 2: you know, he thought Anastasia was lame. He said that,

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Speaker 2: you know, they never really got along in school.

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Speaker 1: We described Anastasia back then.

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Speaker 2: Gosh, I don't know, I was trying to think of this.

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Speaker 2: I knew her fairly well, but I knew her from

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Speaker 2: being from double dates and stuff like that, and so

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Speaker 2: you don't really get to know somebody, you know what

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Speaker 2: I mean. I know she was very she was all

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Speaker 2: about Justin. I know, she was definitely trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out who she was. She was also, I mean, she

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Speaker 2: was very intelligent. She was a beautiful girl, you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean she had her ups and downs. She I

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Speaker 2: did the same thing, some kind of silly poetry I

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Speaker 2: did too. I don't know, especially you know in the

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Speaker 2: nineties with like Nirvana and all that stuff being popular,

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Speaker 2: like you were the struggling artist for a minute, even

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Speaker 2: if you weren't at all. I don't know. She couldn't

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Speaker 2: stand Byron just from going to school with him and

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Speaker 2: all of this, and also Byron would kind of be

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Speaker 2: little her in front of her new boyfriend that she

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Speaker 2: was trying to impress. That was like a big point.

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Speaker 2: Byron just had no respect for her and like let

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Speaker 2: it be known. And I think that that put her

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Speaker 2: in a really bad position. Like I said, Justin was

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Speaker 2: trying to impress Byron, and Anastasia was trying to impress Justin.

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Speaker 2: She was very sweet, but she also she did have

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Speaker 2: something to her where like she would like take no shit,

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Speaker 2: but she also was very much I know, bught up

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Speaker 2: with Justin and the whole first love.

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Speaker 1: First Kelly says, Anastasia was quite vocal about how sick

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Speaker 1: she was getting a Byron. She would complain to Justin

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Speaker 1: that he would spend more time on the phone with

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Speaker 1: Byron than her, and that Justin wouldn't defend her when

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Speaker 1: Byron was disrespectful to her. Do you think there was

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Speaker 1: anything going on between Justin and Byron?

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Speaker 2: I have always thought that Byron was He always joked

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Speaker 2: about being by because he joked that his name was

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Speaker 2: like I'm by Run type thing. There's a definite possibility

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Speaker 2: because there towards the end, Justin was getting more and

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Speaker 2: more mentally unstable. He was showing signs of you know,

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Speaker 2: early signs of maybe schizophrenia or also they would hole

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Speaker 2: up with each other and just do like mescaline and

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Speaker 2: stuff like for days on it. And I know Justin

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Speaker 2: was like kind of slowly losing his mind and Byron

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Speaker 2: there was there for every minute of it. When they

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Speaker 2: were together. You know, Byron lived for with him, rent free.

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Speaker 2: When they went out together. Byron never paid for a

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Speaker 2: damn thing. You know. He was very opportunistic and he.

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Speaker 1: Was briefly described like how Anastasia and Justin's relationship changed.

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Speaker 2: I mean it for from they went from being really

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Speaker 2: close to where Justin would also he would pick spending

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Speaker 2: time with Anastasia over spending time with Byron and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Byron did not like that whatsoever. So I don't know

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Speaker 2: when exactly like the shift shift happened. Definitely part of

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Speaker 2: it was when Anastasia got the job down on the Plaza.

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Speaker 2: She was gone a lot, and then I think that

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Speaker 2: that was when Byron kind of weaseled his way back

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Speaker 2: into like we'll hang out while she's at work. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure she was like working full time. And then

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Speaker 2: it just seemed like, like I said, like, uh, Justin

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Speaker 2: got so much worse. Byron was all about it.

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Speaker 1: Describe your relationship with Byron, the good times.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, if they're even were any.

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Speaker 1: I mean you were Were you in love with him?

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Speaker 2: Looking back as an adult at the time, I mean

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Speaker 2: I probably thought I was, But I also in that

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Speaker 2: point in my life I had been severely molested when

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Speaker 2: I was younger, and so I had just a lot

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Speaker 2: of sexual trauma in like sixth and seventh grade and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: You know, he was probably he was, first of all,

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Speaker 2: he was older. He was one of the first people

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Speaker 2: that had really like expressed an interested in me, like

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Speaker 2: I love you. I love you who you are, blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah, And that was very intoxicating. I went from

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Speaker 2: being flattered by him to like love slash hating him

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Speaker 2: very very quickly, just because of who he was. But

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Speaker 2: then I was also afraid to let go of him, because,

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Speaker 2: like I said, he was one of the first people

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Speaker 2: that had expressed interest in me in that way.

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Speaker 1: What did you think, I'm just curious. What did you

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Speaker 1: think about Byron's goth ways? Was that cool? Was it

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Speaker 1: subversive and interesting?

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Speaker 2: At first? It was okay because I don't know, he

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Speaker 2: just I liked a lot of the same music that

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Speaker 2: went along with stuff like that, you know, like Susie

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Speaker 2: and the Banshees and Ministry and all that. It was okay,

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Speaker 2: I mean. And also with his coloring and everything, like

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Speaker 2: he looked decent suited him, Like you know, there's some

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Speaker 2: people that dress up goth and it just doesn't work whatsoever.

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Speaker 2: But I remember getting being very annoyed by it. He

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Speaker 2: took longer to get ready than me. He also like, uh,

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Speaker 2: he told me at one point, because you know, when

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Speaker 2: I ran away with him that first time, he cut

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Speaker 2: my hair and died at black and blah blah blah.

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Speaker 2: And there was a few times where he slipped up

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Speaker 2: and told me that I was his project, project project. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like since I was younger than him

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Speaker 2: and had had, you know, this traumatic stuff upen or whatever,

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Speaker 2: like he was gonna like mold me into like what

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Speaker 2: he wanted and stuff. I went from being not goth

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Speaker 2: at all to then that's how I dressed and uh,

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Speaker 2: that had that that was ninety nine point nine percent him.

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Speaker 2: I mean that was just he would he basically kind

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Speaker 2: of dressed me and stuff. It was weird. It was

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Speaker 2: like I was his little like goth Barbie Doll or something.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you, because you brought up the time

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Speaker 1: when you ran away, you know that. He says that

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Speaker 1: you had told him that your dad was an abusive alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: He says that he felt like he was getting you

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Speaker 1: out of a bad situation and then he later learned

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Speaker 1: that that was not the truth. Tell me what you

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Speaker 1: can't about that.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, definitely, my dad was an alcoholic, But my

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Speaker 2: dad was more of a withdrawn alcoholic, just kind of

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Speaker 2: like an absentee dad. My dad had his own problems.

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Speaker 2: He was a bipolar and just had his own problems

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Speaker 2: with like horrible depression, my dad grew up in a

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Speaker 2: really dysfunctional, scary, alcoholic home and stuff. Yeah, I definitely

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Speaker 2: exaggerated that my dad had. I got into a fight

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Speaker 2: with him coming back from some concert or something he'd

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Speaker 2: taken me to and we got into a fight about

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Speaker 2: stuff and he had kind of like shoved me or

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Speaker 2: something like that. And then so I really just lied

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Speaker 2: about it to Byron, just like blew it up out

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Speaker 2: of proportion. And I don't even know why, really, you know,

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Speaker 2: my dad passed away and then now that is like

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Speaker 2: one of like it's such a huge regret for me

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Speaker 2: because he wasn't like that at all. I was just

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Speaker 2: I was really angry, like I said, with like the

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Speaker 2: sexual trauma and stuff. I was just angry. I was

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Speaker 2: scared of men. I was just whatever. And I just

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Speaker 2: wanted kind of I wanted a reason to feel how

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Speaker 2: bad I felt. Of course, I all so, you know,

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Speaker 2: being that young and immature, you know, I wanted sympathy

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Speaker 2: from my older boyfriend. I wanted to And it was

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Speaker 2: also the same thing, like I said, people a lot

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Speaker 2: of people done at those coffee shops had an origin

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Speaker 2: story or like lore or whatever, and I just I

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Speaker 2: was just a depressed girl from Johnson County.

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Speaker 1: They hired a PI right, and they found you at

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Speaker 1: Justin's and you came back home. Byron tells the story

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Speaker 1: that after some time your parents relented and allowed you

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Speaker 1: to keep seeing him. I mean, he tells the story,

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Speaker 1: you know in episode six about how your mom would

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Speaker 1: like let him take your little sister to the mall.

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Speaker 2: And you know, oh yeah, I know that was true

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Speaker 2: because Byron, for all his lies and his lore and

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Speaker 2: all his stuff that whatever, we just kind and me too,

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Speaker 2: I just kind of saw him as this like blah

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Speaker 2: blah blah, kind of like Pip Squeak that like wouldn't

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Speaker 2: come out of the closet. I hate to say that,

333
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Speaker 2: but I got, like I said, like I got to where,

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Speaker 2: you know, I was pretty perceptive and intuitive despite being

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Speaker 2: so much younger than him, and I just kind of,

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Speaker 2: like I said, I had a very love hate relationship

337
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Speaker 2: with him, and so I just kind of saw him

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Speaker 2: for I'd figured out that half the stories that he

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Speaker 2: told about himself and his life were fake. You know,

340
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Speaker 2: he was trying to come off as scary, and I

341
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Speaker 2: just thought he was I don't know, nothing to write

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Speaker 2: home about, really, and uh yeah, so that just wasn't

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Speaker 2: even my mom. And now I'm not quite so sure

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Speaker 2: about my dad, but I know my mom and I

345
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Speaker 2: had conversations about him just being like some you know, harmless, confused,

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Speaker 2: kind of coffee shop door, you know, because he told

347
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Speaker 2: so many stories of all this different stuff, and then

348
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 2: it was like never and then I'd have conversations with

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Speaker 2: his mom that would prove that it was false and

350
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Speaker 2: just all kinds of so much stuff about him was

351
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Speaker 2: just a bunch of crap. So he wasn't he wasn't

352
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Speaker 2: scary at all, Like he was trying to be scary.

353
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Speaker 2: He was trying to be all these things. But it

354
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Speaker 2: was like the more and more I found out, I

355
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Speaker 2: was just like, yeah, whatever. But then, of course, much

356
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Speaker 2: later than after the murderers, then I realized, oh my god,

357
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Speaker 2: this guy will do absolutely anything to you know, prove

358
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Speaker 2: his origin story and prove that he's this disturbed blah

359
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: blah blah. I don't that was just such a weird time,

360
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Speaker 2: Like with Marilyn Manson and all that different stuff. It

361
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: was like, you were it was cool to be like

362
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Speaker 2: the sickest person in the room and he was all

363
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: about that.

364
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Speaker 1: Kelly just said murders plural. More about this in a bit.

365
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: The conversation then shifts to after Anastasia's murder, but before

366
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: Kelly had kind forward, when you and Byron first go

367
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Speaker 1: to speak with kil Gore on the twenty fourth.

368
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Speaker 2: And then murder was on the twenty second, right, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The night of the twenty second. She was found the

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Speaker 1: morning of the twenty third, and then I think you

371
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Speaker 1: guys went to go speak with Kilgore and Kellogg that

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Speaker 1: first time on the twenty fourth as a freshly fifteen,

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Speaker 1: like you had just turned fifteen, right, as a fifteen

374
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Speaker 1: year old girl, What are you thinking and feeling as

375
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Speaker 1: you're like sitting at the Jackson County Sheriff's Department being

376
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Speaker 1: interviewed for.

377
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Speaker 2: I was completely bewildered by well, of course obviously that

378
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Speaker 2: it had actually happened, and I can get into all

379
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: that later, like what happened like the night that everything

380
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 2: took place. But I was like what, Because you know,

381
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Speaker 2: I'd seen like NYPD Blue and different shows like that.

382
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 2: I thought what happened was they grabbed the last people

383
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,479
Speaker 2: that had you know, seen the person alive. They grabbed you.

384
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Speaker 2: They separated you and they interrogated the crap out of you.

385
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: I was hoping, Oh my god. For years, I was like,

386
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Speaker 2: why did that not happen? Because I would have if

387
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: I had been separated from Byron and had like you know,

388
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Speaker 2: had like a seasoned detective like in my face saying

389
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: I don't believe you. There's you know way more than

390
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: you're telling us, and you're not leaving here until you

391
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 2: tell us. There's no doubt in my mind that I

392
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 2: would have immediately broken down and told them absolutely everything

393
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: you were.

394
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Speaker 1: I mean, you weren't in the same room with Byron.

395
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: I think you went first and then Byron. But what

396
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: you're saying is like if kil Gore had actually like

397
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: put this screws tears.

398
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 2: To you then, and that wasn't like how it was

399
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: handled like he didn't even It's not like he called

400
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 2: us and was like, Kelly, I don't care where you

401
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 2: have planned for today, You're coming down here and I'm

402
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 2: interviewing you. It wasn't even light that it was literally like, well, hi, sweetie, Wendy,

403
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 2: you think you can come down and talk to us, Okay,

404
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: Well whatever's most convenient for you. Like what it was.

405
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: So weird when you heard yourself in episode one, and

406
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: maybe you'd already heard your interview with Kellogg and Kilgore before,

407
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: but when you heard that first interview, what did you

408
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: think I was.

409
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 2: I was really surprised at how calm I sounded, but

410
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: I think I had had some chemical help with that.

411
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 2: I remember either getting some xanax or Byron getting some

412
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: for me or something because he knew that I had

413
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 2: just really bad anxiety. He never challenged me on stuff.

414
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 2: He just was like, okay, so she got out of

415
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: the car and blah blah blah. Like it just didn't

416
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: it didn't feel like a real police interview, that's for

417
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 2: damn sure. The part that did shock me and scared

418
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 2: the shit out of me was when I heard Byron

419
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 2: talking about, well, I don't know, there definitely could have

420
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 2: been a suicide packed between Kelly and Justin in Stasia

421
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,239
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, And immediately I was like, there's no

422
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: other reason for him to say that unless he was

423
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: going to kill me if he thought I was getting

424
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 2: too nervous and I wasn't sticking to the.

425
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: Plan, And that I think was in a later interview.

426
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: But you mean, like as time went on the fact

427
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: that he said that made you think that he was

428
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: maybe going to you just said.

429
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: It if I became too much of a problem. He

430
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: obviously had no problem disposing of people or this. Also,

431
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 2: I found out much later too that he had told

432
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: a bunch of people that he had killed her. I

433
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: found out much later too that he had told a

434
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: bunch of people that he had killed her. And he

435
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 2: very much made me think that I was the only

436
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: one alive that knew that he had done anything, and

437
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 2: that was just a bunch of crap.

438
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: You said, Byron told other people that he had killed Anastasia.

439
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Who else did he tell?

440
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: Tara McDowell, who conveniently is dead. Let's see, I.

441
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Think she died of cancer by the way, Yes.

442
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: She did, he told Brahm. He told at that time.

443
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: That was right after from and Tara had broken up.

444
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 2: Tara was living with and messing around with this just

445
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: this creepy guy that I think his real name was

446
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: like Robert or Bob or something, but he went by

447
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: a raven, she told him. And then Tara was quite

448
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: the drinker and drug user. So who knows how many

449
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: people at bars or whatever had found out there is

450
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: a particular person who I will not name because they

451
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: don't want to be involved in anything. Tarah drunkenly told

452
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: her and then the next morning realized what she had

453
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: done and then just threatened the crap out of this girl.

454
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: Kelly just dropped a bombshell that Byron allegedly told other

455
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: people like Abraham and Tara that he killed Anastasia. Unfortunately,

456
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: I can't ask Tara if this it's true.

457
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 2: I will need to ask Abraham Row like it was

458
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: him proclaiming. All this innocence and stuff. Has always floored

459
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: me because in Westport it's always been like, oh, yeah,

460
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 2: like that's totally what happened. And people think that he

461
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: probably also killed Justin too. They think that Justin probably,

462
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: you know, because Justin was saying no, no, don't do

463
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: it when the actual murder happened. I think Justin probably

464
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: told no. I don't have any proof of this or anything.

465
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: I can definitely see Justin being like, I can't live

466
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: after this happened, so I'm going to go to the

467
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: police and tell them everything unless you kill me. WHOA Yeah,

468
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not positive of that. That's just I

469
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: can absolutely see that happening and there's other people thinking

470
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: that because that night, okay, and this just shows how

471
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: just iced cold and how Byron completely does not understand

472
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: the human experience. You know, we all go home to

473
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: our prospective homes after this stuff all happens. Back then,

474
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: with landlines, like you could make a three way call

475
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 2: if you did something a certain way, and we made

476
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: a three way call. It was me and Justin and Byron.

477
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: I remember Justin was just like almost like Cata tonic,

478
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: and he was like not good, not good. Can't sleep,

479
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: can't sleep. He just kept saying weird stuff over and

480
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: over again.

481
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: The night of the murder. Yes, but wait a minute,

482
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: because you said that you only called Byron that night

483
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: when you first talked to Kilgore. You said you called

484
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: Byron that night and that you couldn't you hadn't spoken

485
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: with Justin. But now you're saying that there was a

486
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: three way call between.

487
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, that was all part of the story,

488
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 2: was that I just talked you know what I mean,

489
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: That was all part of the story that was like

490
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: drilled into me that you know, no, we didn't of course,

491
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: we didn't talk to Justin. We don't know. We just

492
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: suddenly you heard that he was dead, so he must

493
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: have had more to do with it than we thought

494
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 2: he did. Blah blah blah.

495
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: No, but did you tell that when you came forward

496
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: that you I don't remember seeing that when you came

497
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 1: forward that you. Did you tell anybody that you had

498
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: spoken to justin that night?

499
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: I don't remember? And that was all such a whirlwin.

500
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: And when I came forward, I was also detoxing off

501
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: of some pretty hardcore drugs and stuff. I just wanted

502
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: to stick with the things that I knew for sure,

503
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.

504
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: And I'm going to ask you about that stuff in

505
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: a second. Let me ask you this, after you and

506
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: Byron in nineteen ninety seven, after you guys speak with

507
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: Kellogg and Kilgore that first time, what kinds of conversations

508
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: do you and Byron have after and do you talk

509
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: about what happened to Anastasia often? Or is it something

510
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: like you don't like it's just mom's the word. We're

511
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 1: not even gonna bring it up. What does life like

512
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: life look like for you and Byron after.

513
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: That when we stayed together a little bit?

514
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: But I mean, especially in terms of talking, especially in

515
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: terms of talking about Anastasia.

516
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: Oh, he wouldn't do it.

517
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: He wouldn't talk about it.

518
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 2: He wouldn't talk about it. And if he did, he

519
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: was very cold, and he was very He was like Kelly,

520
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: she would have committed suicide anyway, because she was very

521
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: you know, if you read her poets gray, and a

522
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: lot of her stuff was very morose anyway. And I

523
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: remember one particular time I was trying to get away

524
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 2: from him so bad. I remember I cheated on him

525
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 2: several times just to drive him away, and he wouldn't

526
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: go away.

527
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: Why do you think you wouldn't go away?

528
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 2: First of all, I think he was obsessed with me,

529
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: and it was also his thing, like I was his project,

530
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: like he's not done with me until he says he

531
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: is type thing. And then I also think that he

532
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 2: thought that if he lost much control over me, that

533
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 2: I would come forward. But I remember specifically one night

534
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 2: being like, you're a murderer. How do you even feel

535
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: about like I was like I didn't stop it, So

536
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 2: I consider myself a murderer and I can't sleep. I

537
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 2: can hardly even think about this stuff. I don't care

538
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 2: because I just went to I didn't care about what

539
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 2: I looked like anymore. I didn't care about I didn't

540
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: want to get out of bed. I was just whatever.

541
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 2: And I was like, and you seem perfectly fine. You're

542
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: a fucking murderer. And he grabbed me by my throat

543
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: and slammed me up against the wall. And he was like,

544
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 2: I don't want to hear another word about this. He goes,

545
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: a murderer is somebody who doesn't feel bad about their actions,

546
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 2: and of course I feel bad. Wow, But he mainly

547
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: he didn't give a shit about Anastasia, but he mainly

548
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: felt bad about He was like, I thought Justin could

549
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: handle this, and obviously he couldn't, and blah blah blah.

550
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: It was just.

551
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: Kelly had told Sargant Kilgore about this exchange. But this

552
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: is the first time we're hearing that Byron allegedly grabbed

553
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: Kelly by the throat and slammed her against the wall.

554
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: I will have to ask Byron about this. How did

555
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: Byron handle Justin's death?

556
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: Oh? Oh good, we can blame it on the dead guy.

557
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting, Byron never did really. I mean,

558
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: even when he so I'm jumping, but even when he

559
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: got like partial immunity or limited immunity. He could have

560
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: said that, Justin didn't, and he never said that. Why

561
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: do you think he didn't formally blame it on Justin.

562
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe out of respect for him, but

563
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: I can't really see that because he wasn't. He was

564
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 2: when his body was found and they said it was suicide,

565
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: like he was very relieved by that and almost excited

566
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: by that, like oh okay, this just everything's falling into place.

567
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 2: Now they're just going to think that he did it.

568
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: Did you go to Anastasia's funeral? Yes, you went to

569
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: both funerals, Justin's and Anastasia's. What was Anastaesia's?

570
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 2: Like, I don't feel like that's my place to say,

571
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 2: because I didn't know her family, I didn't know her

572
00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 2: very well. It was awful. I didn't want to go,

573
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 2: and Byron kept telling me that, uh, it would look

574
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 2: weird if we didn't go. It just felt disgusting to

575
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: be there. And I remember one of Banastasia's best friend,

576
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 2: you know, because she had such bad wounds on her

577
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: face and stuff that they had like recreated like her

578
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: head basically with morticians putty. Byron just went up and

579
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 2: looked at that with no problem. I couldn't even look.

580
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: I remember her friend Danny ran off sobbing and vomited,

581
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,840
Speaker 2: and then I remember like Tara and Raven were there

582
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 2: like it was some spectacle. It was like the ultimate,

583
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: like goth spectacle they got to be at and I

584
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: remember being like, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

585
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: And then I later found out how awful Byron was

586
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 2: being towards in a stage's family about stuff he was

587
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: sending Bob with bos Fugan, just horrible emails about how

588
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: he didn't know his own daughter and all this stuff.

589
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 2: And that's when I really I just more and more

590
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 2: was revealed where I was like, you're an evil piece

591
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: of shit, like you have no care for And then

592
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: that weird stuff that mister White, those letters and stuff

593
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 2: that he wrote. I had no idea about any of

594
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 2: that stuff until much later. To me, that was something

595
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: like a serial killer, like reliving the crime or something

596
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: that wasn't That didn't seem like something an innocent person

597
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 2: would do to me at all, And it also scared

598
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 2: me because once again it was just like like, Wow,

599
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 2: this guy is sick.

600
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: And when you heard the rumors of what people were

601
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: thinking happened to Anastasia. When you hear people speculating like

602
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: this could have happened, you know, maybe and it was

603
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: a death pact, or maybe there was that one rumor

604
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: that Bob Whitmulsfugen said he heard, which was that there

605
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: was a gun that Byron had loaded.

606
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: And just did a bizarre Yeah, I'm sorry, I.

607
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: Don't what did you think of that?

608
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 2: I remember not really thinking much about that stuff because

609
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 2: I was just I just wanted it all to just

610
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 2: go away so badly. I either wanted to come forward

611
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: or I wanted it to completely go away.

612
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: Going back to the emails that Byron and Bob and

613
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: Pat Rock Patrick Rock were all exchanging with each other,

614
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: did Byron tell you that he was emailing with them

615
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: or did he tell you anything about that?

616
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 2: He told me that he was emailing with them. I

617
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: had no idea how cruel he was being, how weird

618
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: it was, how he was basically, I mean, he was

619
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 2: basically you know, they were inconveniencing him because they were

620
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what happened to her, and fuck

621
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: you guys, And I had no idea that he was

622
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: being that hostile to them, And.

623
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: I mean, why do you think Bob suspected Byron.

624
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: Because he's just such a jerk, and Byron was, like

625
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: I said, from whatever, Byron kept trying to present like

626
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: him and Anastasia were good old buddies that went to

627
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: school together, and they weren't. She did not like him

628
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 2: at all, and he was really rude to her, and

629
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 2: you know, let it be known that he had no

630
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 2: respect for her, and then later on, let it be

631
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 2: known that, you know, she wasn't good enough for his friend,

632
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. And I'm so I'm sure they

633
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 2: were like what you know, with him, all of a sudden,

634
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, there were school chumps when you know,

635
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: he knew the exact opposite about him. I'm sure that's why.

636
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: How did Byron handle his father's death.

637
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: He was excited about the ten grand he got. He

638
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: got ten grand, and I think he also got his

639
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: dad's house. That was some weirdness. I also didn't understand.

640
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember I saw him maybe like shut

641
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 2: a tear or two, but he was also well I

642
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: don't know how much you know about that stuff, but

643
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: Byron had at one point told me that he was

644
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 2: going to kill his father because he always wondered what

645
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: it was like to kill somebody, and his dad had AIDS,

646
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: and he knew that his dad's long term partner who

647
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: passed away from complications from AIDS. I believed I of

648
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: like pneumonia or something like that. And he said he

649
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 2: just knew that his dad just wouldn't want to languish

650
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: like that and wouldn't whatever. He basically thought he was

651
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: doing his dad of favor by His plan was he

652
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 2: was going to tell his dad that he was having

653
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 2: car trouble, like out in some cornfield in the middle

654
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: of nowhere, and then when his dad, like you know,

655
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: was like looking under the trunk and wasn't looking at him,

656
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 2: he was going to shoot him.

657
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: When he tells you this, are you like what the fuck?

658
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: I mean? Yeah? Well, like I said, it was there

659
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: was so much lore that he said about himself that

660
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: wasn't true, that wasn't even whatever that I was just like,

661
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: uh huh, yeah, sure, it was talk. It was talk

662
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: he wanted to seem. I think he also thought it

663
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 2: made him seem more manly to be like spooky and

664
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: violent and stuff, and so I was just like, yeah, whatever, And.

665
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: Did he say that stuff after Anastasia's murder or was

666
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: this before?

667
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: This was before they had all kinds of plans. They

668
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: Anastasia and Justin were going to go Rob Justin's parents

669
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: supposedly had the whole thing planned out. They drove not

670
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 2: very far and they ended up going to Dunkin Donuts

671
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: and coming back home. So that's how ludicrous the stuff seemed.

672
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 2: They had actually and I had gone with them. There

673
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 2: is an independence like some one of the main like

674
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: Mormon churches and Aspire the Spiral and stuff like that.

675
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 2: So they had this big idea that they were going

676
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: to like invade that church. This was justin environ, and

677
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: I think Anastasia was supposed to be involved a little bit.

678
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: They were going to kidnap like the main I don't

679
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 2: know what they are on Mormonism, preacher, minister or whatever.

680
00:43:59,160 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: Bishop.

681
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were going to kidnap him and hold him

682
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: in the basement and say that they wanted X amount

683
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 2: of ransom, or they were going to blow up the

684
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: entire church with him in it. And they had gone

685
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: so far with that to where me, Anastasia, Justin, and

686
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 2: Byron had all gone. They'll give you tours of that

687
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: place if you ask and Byron went in full like

688
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: priests get up blah blah blah, and said that you know,

689
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 2: he was a priest that just counseled people with their

690
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: problems and he'd always been interested in Mormonism and blah

691
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 2: blah blah. So we spent like half the day on

692
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: Saturday going on this tour of this place so that

693
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 2: they could be they thought they were in some movie.

694
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: It always thought like they thought they were in some

695
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 2: guy Ritchie movie. And it just never ever came to

696
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 2: fruition ever.

697
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: You know, So as the investigation, it's all obviously before

698
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 1: coming forward as the investigations going on. You I mean,

699
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: you speak with kill Gore a few times over the

700
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: course of like a couple of years. Each time you're

701
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: speaking with kill Gore. What's going through you?

702
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 2: Do you guys still really believe this? Basically that I

703
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 2: was like, well, my god, how many I don't know

704
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 2: I had. And also I'm like, I had no idea

705
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 2: it was like this easy, like to get away with

706
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: killing someone. That was just like I was also like, okay,

707
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 2: when's the actual questioning going to start? When's the actual

708
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 2: I was just very confused.

709
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: And I think it was your second interview, You said

710
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 1: that you saw Anna Stagia with a wallet that night.

711
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 1: Do you remember anything about that?

712
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: I probably did if I said it, I don't know.

713
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,839
Speaker 1: I mean, she had three dollars and sixty five cents

714
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: in her pants pocket when she was found, and there

715
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: was no wallet or purse. Okay, but oh this brings

716
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: up a good question. Did you see on Instagram the

717
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: picture of the purse that Bob sent Kilgore wondering if

718
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: it was the one that had been seen out with

719
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 1: her that night? Because Don Wright said that she came

720
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,879
Speaker 1: in with a purse. Right, I don't know this don

721
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: Right person. I have no idea. Did you see that?

722
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: Can I show it to you?

723
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: Just?

724
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: I mean, you know because kil Gore once he got

725
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: this photo from Bob, never took it to anyone, like,

726
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: never took it to Don Right, I never took anything.

727
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: Never had you look at it?

728
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 3: Well?

729
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: And why didn't they check? Because I know for a

730
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: fact that I I made a phone call from a

731
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 2: gas station to Anastasia's house that night, and I didn't

732
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,720
Speaker 2: I thought that they would check some type of phone

733
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: call coming from there or something.

734
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 1: Well, I definitely want to ask you about that. I

735
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: mean Kilgourd didn't get any phone records, any phone records,

736
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: anyw beper records, nothing. I finally find the photo of

737
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: Anastasia's purse and show it to Kelly. Does that at

738
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: all look familiar to a little bit?

739
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 2: But like my memory is so bad that I wouldn't

740
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 2: run it, you know what I mean? Just like for

741
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,440
Speaker 2: the details, I mean, obviously for the big stuff, I

742
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 2: don't know that does look like that would go with like,

743
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 2: you know, Stagia's like personality and how she dressed.

744
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: But I don't know, Okay, I was just curious. Okay.

745
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: So at one point I think it was in August

746
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 1: of ninety eight, you speak with Kilgore, I think your

747
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: parents might be there for that interview, And you say,

748
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: I think Byron knows more. You say, I don't think

749
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,919
Speaker 1: it's a murder type of thing, but I think he's

750
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: been acting very strangely, and I think he knows more

751
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,439
Speaker 1: than he's saying. Tell me what you remember about?

752
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. That was definitely me being like, come on, guys,

753
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 2: Like I said, for years, I was begging for someone

754
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: to confront me and scare me and get me to

755
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: tell the truth because I was so frozen with fear.

756
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: You know. Obviously by that point I had realized that

757
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: Byron was much more dangerous than I had ever thought.

758
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: And also just I was just I was begging for

759
00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: someone to come at me, say something, ask some bigger questions,

760
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: do something.

761
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: I mean, how did you not tell your mom or

762
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: your dad.

763
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 2: At that point in time? Well? I did. I did

764
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: tell my dad eventually, but I was so involved in

765
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: hard drugs and didn't live at my parents' house a

766
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 2: large portion of the time and stuff. Plus I know

767
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 2: my parents are the type of people that they weren't

768
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 2: just gonna I mean, they were going to go to

769
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 2: the authorities or they were gonna whatever. I did eventually

770
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 2: tell my dad. It took a while for my parents

771
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 2: to really be like, Okay, you know more about this

772
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,879
Speaker 2: than you're even saying.

773
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: And we are going to talk much more about this later. You,

774
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: if I understand correctly, you broke up with Byron like

775
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: December of ninety eight or January of ninety nine, somewhere

776
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: in there. Why do you finally break up with him?

777
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: I hated him, I was scared of him. I didn't

778
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 2: want anything to do with that type of person. And

779
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 2: then especially when I had found out how cruel he

780
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,920
Speaker 2: was being to Anniest. He was like taunting Anastasia's family

781
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: and stuff. I just thought he was disgusting and I

782
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,839
Speaker 2: couldn't get away from him fast enough. I actually broke up.

783
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 2: We were supposed to be going over to a high

784
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: school friends of mine's house, and so when he pulled up,

785
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 2: I knew that I had high school friends that were

786
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: like outside hacky sacking and stuff, and I was like,

787
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 2: I don't want anything to do with you. We are

788
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: breaking up. I am getting out of the car. You

789
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 2: are not joining me, blah blah blah, and he went nuts.

790
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: He started slamming his own head on his staring wheel

791
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I knew, you know, and then my

792
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 2: friends are looking over, are you okay? I knew I

793
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 2: had to do it in like a public kind of

794
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 2: a setting.

795
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 1: How did you feel after you broke up with him?

796
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 2: It was murders relief. It was more than just relief.

797
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: And I also was just like, okay, well, now, like

798
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 2: I said, I've been toying with the fact of coming

799
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 2: forward for a long time, and I was just like, okay,

800
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: well now I can I can actually do.

801
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: It, you know, And so and I don't want to

802
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: say anything that could potentially trigger just a couple of

803
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: questions about your addiction. And but please tell me if

804
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm crossing a line or anything.

805
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 2: You're fine.

806
00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 1: You had used before the murder. How do things change

807
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: after the murder?

808
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, the night of the murder, like I said,

809
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 2: when I was like probably twelve thirteen, I started feeling

810
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 2: really different. That was also when a lot of the

811
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 2: like sexual trauma and stuff had happened. Middle illness just

812
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: runs rampant in my family, and I started feeling were

813
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: really really just different. And so yeah, I had like

814
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 2: drank and done other things to try to make myself

815
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: feel better. I hated pot. Pot just made me feel

816
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: like I was on asset or something. But definitely alcohol

817
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:24,240
Speaker 2: helped and stuff. And then I remember after being dropped

818
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 2: off after the murder, I just laid on my bed

819
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: forever and I just stared at the ceiling, and you know,

820
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 2: I just remember thinking, like you know, when you're a kid,

821
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,439
Speaker 2: especially like when you're a teenage girl, like you think

822
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: you have all these problems, you think you have, you know,

823
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: everything is the end of the world. And I remember

824
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: sitting there and just being like like I had no

825
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 2: I like, every it's over, Like just everything's over, you know,

826
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: like my youth is over. Like I knew I was

827
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 2: never going to be the same person, and I was

828
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 2: like a person is actually dead, like somebody's not going

829
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: to wake up tomorrow, like because of partially my actions

830
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I just remember thinking that I was

831
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 2: just just evil. I remember like why didn't they kill

832
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: me too? Just a huge sense that life was I

833
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: knew it was over and that I just was never

834
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I just felt sick. Anything that I thought

835
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 2: was a problem before it's just now just seems ridiculous.

836
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: And I know that's exactly how Justin felt too, because

837
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, he couldn't sleep all that night.

838
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: And then this is another thing that was so disturbing.

839
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 2: You know, we did that way call and Justin was

840
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 2: talking about how he couldn't sleep and how he felt sick.

841
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 2: And Justin's like, I don't think I'll ever be able

842
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:12,919
Speaker 2: to sleep again, and I said me neither. Byron went

843
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: right to sleep. Byron wouldn't even supposedly his best friend

844
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 2: who he cared about so much, wouldn't even get out

845
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: of bed to have breakfast with him. It was like

846
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 2: Justin and I were like, what the fuck? I mean, like,

847
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 2: can you imagine?

848
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 1: That's one of my questions because and we're going to

849
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: get to you coming forward and everything, but one of

850
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: my questions is like, knowing that the three of you

851
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 1: just were there participated in this murder. When Justin calls

852
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: Byron the next morning, why and if Byron thinks he

853
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: might lose it or he might go tell someone, why

854
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 1: do you think Byron just says, I'll talk to you later.

855
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: Why not say to Justin, hang on, calm down, you know,

856
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: let's go meet.

857
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure Justin expressed to him that he was

858
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: suicidal and that fixed fixed problems for Byron. They'll just

859
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: think he did it. But I when I heard that

860
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 2: later on, you know, because I was not on that

861
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: phone call, I was not privy to that. I was like,

862
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: you know, next morning, yeah, I wasn't, uh, because that

863
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 2: was them, you know, talking and stuff. I was like,

864
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 2: not only did you go to sleep like a baby,

865
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: but you couldn't be bothered to go meet your suicidal friend?

866
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: Like are you kidding me?

867
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 1: Or what did Byron tell you about that call that

868
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: he had with Justin?

869
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 2: He just said that Justin was like freaking out and

870
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 2: was still saying which I had already heard, that he

871
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: never thought he was going to sleep again and stuff.

872
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 2: He didn't go into any detail. I guarantee you that

873
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 2: Justin said goodbye. I'm just I cannot believe we did this,

874
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, I'm sure he told them of

875
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 2: his intentions, you know, and I didn't want to get

876
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: some more sleep, damn it. I mean, he was just

877
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 2: like a That was one thing that Justin I he

878
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,839
Speaker 2: was just a robot, you know. Like I said. At

879
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 2: one point, Justin was so upset and shaking so much

880
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 2: that he couldn't even drive, and Byron was getting irritated

881
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: and mad at him. He was like, pull it together,

882
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: do you fine? Fucking pull overall drive? He was just

883
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: he was annoyed with us for being upset.

884
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: Kelly is referring to Justin, who she said was unable

885
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 1: to drive after Anastasia was murdered. How did you pull

886
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: that off when you got home? How did you not

887
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: look upset or how did your mom not tune into anything?

888
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: Like?

889
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: How were you able to just put a mask on?

890
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't think I did a good job. My

891
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 2: mom and I weren't close at that point in time,

892
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: and she really wasn't. She didn't know me very well

893
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: back then, even because we had like kind of such

894
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:40,240
Speaker 2: a contentious relationship and stuff. I just and I don't

895
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 2: remember pulling anything off. I just remember being in set

896
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 2: shop that I just said as little as possible and

897
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 2: went upstairs. My mom also that at that point in time,

898
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 2: you know, being married to an alcoholic. I know that

899
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 2: I smelled like alcohol when I came in the house,

900
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 2: but my mom was just so sick of you know,

901
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 2: because at that point in time, my dad had, you know,

902
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 2: was an alcohol like my brother had substance abuse problems,

903
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 2: and she was just kind of like la la la,

904
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: you know, she just didn't even want to do Yeah,

905
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: she just didn't want to deal with that. She didn't

906
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: I don't think she knew what to do. So I

907
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 2: don't think I did some great acting job. I just

908
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 2: said hi, Mom, good night.

909
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: And just a quick reminder Byron says they weren't drinking

910
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: that night, all right. Going back to that first interview,

911
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: what does your mom say to you when she's like,

912
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: I'm driving you to the police station. I mean the

913
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: fact that Anastasia had been murdered. She doesn't know anything yet,

914
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: you haven't told her anything. What is what is your

915
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: mom saying to you? Is she like did she does

916
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 1: she ask you or press you like do you know more? Kelly?

917
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 2: Or what is your mom? Initially? No, Initially she seemed to,

918
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: you know, believe the cover story that Byron had like

919
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 2: drilled into me. But the more that my life and

920
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 2: who I was just took a complete like one eighty,

921
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 2: that's when she was like, we know that you know

922
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 2: more and stuff, and that's you know, that's how her

923
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 2: and my drug counsel, that was how I eventually ended

924
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: up coming forward. I had toyed with coming forward like

925
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 2: four years, but that eventually was like her and my

926
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,080
Speaker 2: dad were like, you went from being like a straight

927
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: a student, like with goals and this and that, and

928
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:45,960
Speaker 2: then now you're you know, like living in a crackhouse

929
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: on like a suicide admission, Like there's there's no way

930
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: this is a coincidence type thing.

931
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So almost three years go by, and what was

932
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: the impetus, like what made you finally come forward?

933
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 2: Well? I ended up I ended up going to treatment.

934
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,440
Speaker 2: It was right before my parents dropped me off at

935
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 2: treatment that I had told my dad what had actually

936
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: happened and stuff. But you know, of course I was

937
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 2: like solving and begging him not to say anything. I was,

938
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 2: you know, I was like, if I come forward, it

939
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 2: has to be on like my own terms, YadA YadA.

940
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 2: And so I went to treatment and I was just weird.

941
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: I was just I think I was just kind of

942
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: like the only like emotions back then that I could

943
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 2: express were really just like despair and panic, you know.

944
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 2: And I think and definitely my drug counselor, uh picked

945
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: up on that. And I think my mom when she

946
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 2: had called and set up like my intake because I

947
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,160
Speaker 2: was a minor at the time, had said, you know,

948
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 2: told her like there was just wonder that happened, and

949
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,680
Speaker 2: I guarantee that she knows more about it, YadA YadA.

950
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: And Maggie, that was the lady that was my drug

951
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,760
Speaker 2: and alcohol counselor, she just flat out said, and if

952
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: you're ever going to get clean, you know, she goes,

953
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,200
Speaker 2: you have to, she goes. Everybody knows, you know, way

954
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 2: more about this murder than you're letting on. And then

955
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: I was just like, and you know she could tell that.

956
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: That freaked me out. And so I don't even think

957
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,000
Speaker 2: she told me. I think behind my back. She called

958
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 2: my mom to come out there, and finally it was

959
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,360
Speaker 2: what I had been wanting Kilgore and all those people

960
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 2: to do for years. They called me up into the

961
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 2: office and asked me what happened. And that's when I

962
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: was like, oh, oh, well, Justin did it blah blah blah.

963
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: And then my mom said, Kelly, that's bullshit. You told

964
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: your dad just a few nights ago that it was Byron.

965
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 2: And my counselor was like, so, is that really what happened?

966
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: And at that point I just couldn't lie anymore and

967
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,600
Speaker 2: I just completely broke down and I said yeah, and

968
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: I told him everything that happened. But this is another

969
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 2: reason why I think it's absolutely absurd that Byron and

970
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 2: his people think that I did this to mess with him.

971
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: I mean, my god, when I told them that this

972
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: was not my parents aren't rich. This was not a

973
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 2: situation where it was like, oh, honey, baby, sweetie, tell

974
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 2: us what happened. We'll make sure nothing ever happens to you. No.

975
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 2: This was literally like them going, okay, well we're gonna

976
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 2: have to you go downstairs. We have phone calls to make,

977
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 2: and I was like, what are you gonna call? And

978
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 2: my drug counselor at the time was like, well, first,

979
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 2: I'm calling the Jackson County prosecutor because this is bullshit.

980
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 2: And I remember her saying like, Kelly, anything is better

981
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 2: than you are now, because I was just like, I

982
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 2: was just on a suicide admission and I hated myself

983
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: and I just didn't even I basically had like no

984
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:34,000
Speaker 2: quality of life, and they knew that. And she was

985
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 2: like no, She's like, we're telling whoever needs to know

986
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 2: this what is going on. So I wasn't. It wasn't

987
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 2: like it wasn't at all like sweetie, we got you

988
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 2: immunity and blah blah blah. I mean, I went downstairs

989
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 2: completely freaking out, and there was also older adult women

990
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: in this treatment center, and I remember talking to the

991
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 2: ones that had been in prison and stuff, and I

992
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 2: remember actually being relieved, like if I went to prison,

993
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 2: you know, because I was thinking like, Okay, well then

994
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 2: maybe maybe I'll be around people who have been through

995
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 2: kind of the same thing I have and I won't

996
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: have access to direct you know, at that point, I

997
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 2: know anything about prison, you know, I won't have access

998
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 2: to drugs and then maybe I can finally, I don't know,

999
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 2: maybe if I'm in a controlled environment, it'll be so

1000
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: much better. And anything I wasn't. This wasn't like if

1001
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,120
Speaker 2: you tell us what happened, we're going to make sure

1002
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: nothing happens to you. In fact, it was quite the opposite.

1003
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 2: So why I would I don't know. That angle is

1004
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 2: just the most stupid thing I've ever heard to me.

1005
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: And did you, through those three years of not coming forward,

1006
01:04:53,880 --> 01:05:01,000
Speaker 1: believe that you were as culpable as Byron Justin that night?

1007
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, if not more so, because I felt like

1008
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 2: Byron is like a sick fuck I. You know, by

1009
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 2: then I had figured out he was so much sicker

1010
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 2: than I even thought. I'm like, great, he's a damn

1011
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 2: sociopath or psychopath or whatever. Justin was completely out of

1012
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 2: his mind. I don't know if this was schizophrenia and

1013
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 2: depression or schizophrenia. And they were doing a lot of

1014
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 2: like mescaline and acid and stuff together, and I was like,

1015
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 2: oh yeah, I was just like and I just sat there.

1016
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 2: I just sat there and let somebody just just let

1017
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 2: somebody be killed. And that was I didn't even feel

1018
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 2: human hardly anymore. And also now having I have a

1019
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 2: daughter who's twenty one. You know, she just thought her

1020
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 2: friends were her up. She was depressed, and she wanted

1021
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 2: to see her boyfriend and she that was all she wanted.

1022
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 2: It was just I mean, for no reason. I mean,

1023
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 2: she was just having like normal young relationship problems. If

1024
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 2: she just got slaughtered, and it even was sadder when

1025
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:31,440
Speaker 2: I found out about I don't know, because I couldn't

1026
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:32,360
Speaker 2: decide which.

1027
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 3: Was better, like with the contact wound or whatever happen.

1028
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 3: That's why she had no defensive wounds, was because she

1029
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 3: thought she could trust us. I mean I think about

1030
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 3: that all the time. I mean, my god, that would

1031
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 3: have been like if I I don't know.

1032
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 2: That would have been like if Angie came and picked

1033
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 2: me up and said, well, we're gonna go get ice

1034
01:06:55,000 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 2: cream and then she killed me. And I don't know

1035
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: if there's like solace in the fact that it happened

1036
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 2: so fast that maybe at least she wasn't scared. But

1037
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 2: I mean, god, if I would have said anything, if

1038
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 2: I would have done anything, it probably wouldn't have happened.

1039
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1040
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 2: And just what kind of person lest that happen when

1041
01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 2: then I considered suicide for a very long time after that,

1042
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 2: you know, well, I mean like before I came forward,

1043
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 2: but then I was scared because I was just like,

1044
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,160
Speaker 2: this is like what if I just go to hell

1045
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: and then I have to relive this over and over

1046
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: and over again.

1047
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: And the reason you didn't say anything was because.

1048
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 2: I know I didn't think that they would go through

1049
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 2: with it. I didn't. I have no idea. I've asked

1050
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,640
Speaker 2: myself that so many times. I mean, I think I

1051
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 2: was also just in over my head hanging out with

1052
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,000
Speaker 2: people that were so much older than me. I also,

1053
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 2: I don't know. And then I'm also like, did I

1054
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 2: want to be accepted that bad that I would have

1055
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,440
Speaker 2: just said yes to whatever?

1056
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:22,680
Speaker 1: Justin was described as apathetic. Wanting to kill Anastasia as

1057
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: a way to get her out of his life seems

1058
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: like an extreme measure, an extreme act. Was that surprising

1059
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:35,479
Speaker 1: to you that he would want to suggest or take

1060
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 1: that kind of measure instead of just breaking up with

1061
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,160
Speaker 1: her and never talking to her again.

1062
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 2: I've thought about that a lot. I don't know if

1063
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 2: it was he was already that out of touch with reality, because,

1064
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 2: like I said, right before, that they had been doing

1065
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:53,479
Speaker 2: a lot of psychedelics, and Justin thought that there were

1066
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 2: people living under his floorboards that were talking to him

1067
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,599
Speaker 2: and telling him what to do and stuff. But then

1068
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 2: I always so think like Byron and Justin had such

1069
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:09,559
Speaker 2: a weird, like a meshed relationship. I think that part

1070
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 2: of it. I think because like I said, Justin was

1071
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 2: more gullible than I was, and I think he believed

1072
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 2: a lot of Byron's stupid lore in his stories and

1073
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So I think he was trying to

1074
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 2: show off for his friend, prove to his friend that

1075
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 2: he was as sick as he was. I don't know,

1076
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: but I know Justin would have never they had been

1077
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,480
Speaker 2: just hold up in the house for several days by themselves.

1078
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 2: I seriously doubt Justin would have ever come up with

1079
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 2: that by himself, because Justin was more like self loathing

1080
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,160
Speaker 2: and depressed. I think he probably would have just slept

1081
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 2: or done you know other things that depressed people do.

1082
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 2: That always boggled my mind. I just I don't think

1083
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:09,880
Speaker 2: he would have ever come up with that on his own.

1084
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:16,240
Speaker 1: And again I apologize for jumping around when you when

1085
01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: you when you go with Angie to the park, and

1086
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: you share this with her, confess this to her. First

1087
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 1: of all, what did you think when you heard Angie

1088
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 1: describe that and how it's affected her?

1089
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 2: That also just really showed me how out of trust

1090
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 2: with reality I was, because she was, you know, she

1091
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 2: said over and over again, like and how could you

1092
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 2: take me to the house of somebody who had did

1093
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 2: something like that? Like that didn't even occur to me, Like,

1094
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 2: if anything, I felt like with him, like I was

1095
01:10:55,880 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 2: the one in danger, not her, and I that I,

1096
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 2: you know, knew Byron well enough to know that it

1097
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:10,240
Speaker 2: wasn't you know, what's he going to do? Do some

1098
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:15,879
Speaker 2: massacre where he has to you know, kill me, kill

1099
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 2: Angie kill I don't know. I don't even really remember

1100
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 2: going over his house. I have a very very vague memory.

1101
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,759
Speaker 2: I wondered for a while if that it actually happened,

1102
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 2: or if that was a dream or something. But yeah,

1103
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,479
Speaker 2: after that, I just felt so bad because I was like, well, yeah,

1104
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:36,720
Speaker 2: of course.

1105
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: You had also told your boyfriend Jim right before you

1106
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,639
Speaker 1: told Angie. Had you told anyone else?

1107
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 2: No, not that I believe.

1108
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,919
Speaker 1: When you come forward, you come forward. I think September

1109
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: nineteenth of two thousand, I think you speak with Kilgore

1110
01:11:54,479 --> 01:12:00,240
Speaker 1: for the first time September twenty first, two thousand. How

1111
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,240
Speaker 1: was kill Gore during that? I mean, you guys had

1112
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:08,559
Speaker 1: had like multiple, you know, meetings interviews before then, and

1113
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 1: now you're coming forward forward. How was kill Gore with you?

1114
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: And how did you feel with him?

1115
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:20,040
Speaker 2: Irritated? No, I mean he was irritated with me, and

1116
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 2: I was just like whatever with him. I was mad

1117
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 2: at him for I mean honestly, I was like, if

1118
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 2: you would it done your fucking job like years ago,

1119
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:38,560
Speaker 2: why become a cop if you're just going to be

1120
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 2: like as lazy about it as possible. I don't know.

1121
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:48,839
Speaker 1: Why do you think he didn't follow up on leads

1122
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:53,679
Speaker 1: or do, with all due respect, some basic police work

1123
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 1: like getting basic phone records and stuff like that. I mean,

1124
01:12:58,120 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm asking you to like speculate or I.

1125
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 2: Think he's just lazy, and I think that, you know,

1126
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 2: in situations like that, I forget what the statistic is,

1127
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 2: but you know, like nine times out of ten it

1128
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,840
Speaker 2: ends up being the boyfriend. I have no idea. Was

1129
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,560
Speaker 2: he like caneering retirement or something.

1130
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 1: Or I don't think so. Back then.

1131
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he just didn't want to mess with it.

1132
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 2: I think he was just like, oh, case closed.

1133
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I think Bob was like a big thorn

1134
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: in his side.

1135
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:34,840
Speaker 2: Well, God, I just like and Bob is not stable obviously.

1136
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 2: I don't really want to talk about all that other

1137
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,800
Speaker 2: stuff with him because I don't know the situations or

1138
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 2: anything like that. But God, poor Bob. Could got Bob.

1139
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:56,719
Speaker 2: Could Bob had made himself look any worse? Could Bob

1140
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 2: had made himself look any worse? I mean the saying

1141
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 2: that he heard the shot. No, I don't know. I

1142
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:05,400
Speaker 2: think Bob was just.

1143
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: Unwell in the caravan of cars and I don't know.

1144
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:15,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know if you had heard it before,

1145
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:21,160
Speaker 1: But when you heard your interview in two thousand with Kilgore,

1146
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:24,960
Speaker 1: there was also sort of the same level of not

1147
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 1: a ton of emotion when you came forward. What do

1148
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: you attribute my voice? One would imagine that when you

1149
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 1: finally come forward, you would be like distraught or everybody's different.

1150
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 1: So there's no judgment. I'm just curious what you heard

1151
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: and what you thought of how you sounded during that interview.

1152
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely thought, Yeah, I definitely thought I sounded

1153
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: pretty flat as well. I think I had just been

1154
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,959
Speaker 2: on autopilot for so long. I'd been telling that stupid

1155
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 2: story that Byron had me rehearse like for years and

1156
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 2: years for so long. That and that was another thing

1157
01:15:10,160 --> 01:15:12,720
Speaker 2: I thought was weird too, Like they were acting like

1158
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:17,799
Speaker 2: if I really was like this, like in the trial

1159
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 2: they called me like this devil woman. Yeah, I'm a

1160
01:15:22,120 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 2: fucking fifteen year old devil woman. Okay, I didn't if

1161
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 2: you notice it, when I came in, I wasn't like

1162
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 2: had Byron's this evil piece. I didn't emphasize him being

1163
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:39,800
Speaker 2: evil and stuff at all because I felt I think

1164
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 2: I felt just as guilty as he was, because I

1165
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:49,679
Speaker 2: just had been just beating myself up for years over

1166
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,519
Speaker 2: not warning her, over not not doing anything over and

1167
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 2: I would constantly, like I said, I'd be like, what

1168
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:01,439
Speaker 2: kind of person lets this happen? I'd also talked about

1169
01:16:01,439 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 2: it so much, you know, and therapy and in treatment

1170
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 2: and stuff. I just don't I compart well. And with

1171
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 2: stuff like that, you have to compart and mentalize it

1172
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 2: just to get through the day, you know. So I

1173
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 2: think I had just had really bad weird coping mechanisms

1174
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:27,040
Speaker 2: and didn't And then, like I said, I was also

1175
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 2: I was coming off hard drugs and alcohol and stuff.

1176
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: When I finally did talk to Kilgore, I just remember

1177
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 2: wanting it to get over with. I just wish I

1178
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 2: was just like, oh God, please just just believe me

1179
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 2: this time and go pick up Byron.

1180
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, so they you do

1181
01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: come forward and then they don't arrest him. What did

1182
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 1: you think about that? I mean, weren't you expecting them

1183
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 1: arrest him like immediately?

1184
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, because I felt just as responsible as

1185
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: he was. I also knew I wasn't incredible since I'd

1186
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,120
Speaker 2: lied about it so much, and I was just I

1187
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 2: don't know, I was such a mess, like with drugs

1188
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,400
Speaker 2: and alcohol. I also knew, like, yeah, who's gonna believe

1189
01:17:27,520 --> 01:17:32,200
Speaker 2: like this homeless drug addict and all this stuff. And

1190
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 2: I find it hilarious that they think that I was

1191
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 2: involved in some kind of like Kingpin thing, and I

1192
01:17:39,439 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 2: came forward to get out of that. You know, I

1193
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 2: wasn't freaking what's that guy's name? I don't even know

1194
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 2: Pablo Esque. I wasn't hanging out with Pablo Escobar. I

1195
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 2: had a very pathetic, sad drug addict life where it

1196
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 2: was not even having money, need to eat most days,

1197
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:08,840
Speaker 2: hanging out with scary older men because they would, you know,

1198
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 2: keep me high, and I kept myself in just absolutely

1199
01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 2: horrific situations. And now from being older and stuff, I

1200
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 2: can see that that was definitely, with all my guilt

1201
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 2: and stuff, that was my way of putting myself into hell.

1202
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: On earth, you know, like some sort of payment or

1203
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:35,360
Speaker 1: repayment for.

1204
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:38,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, if I didn't deserve to be alive, and

1205
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 2: if I was gonna be alive, I just deserved to

1206
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 2: just be tortured for what I let happen.

1207
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: Kelly just mentioned the alleged implication that she was caught

1208
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: up in some bigger drug situation and to get out

1209
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 1: of it, she flipped on Byron a reminder, this is

1210
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,720
Speaker 1: all surround the time she and her friend Antie Giannino

1211
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: were pulled over in Booneville, Missouri. Kelly threw a bottle

1212
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 1: of alcohol out the car window and she was charged

1213
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:15,040
Speaker 1: with littering or you brought up the Kingpin allegations. So

1214
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:19,920
Speaker 1: first of all, what led to you because there was

1215
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:21,800
Speaker 1: a warrant because you didn't show up I think for

1216
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,719
Speaker 1: an arraignment, right, So what led to you being picked

1217
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: up and then eventually getting the two years probation and

1218
01:19:29,960 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: the forty eight hours of shock jail time.

1219
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 2: Okay, I am so confused by that. Well, now you know,

1220
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 2: I was with Angie when it must have happened. I

1221
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 2: thought she got Okay, what happened was I guess? Yeah,

1222
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:48,720
Speaker 2: I did get charged with throwing the bottle out of

1223
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:55,080
Speaker 2: the car, but she was also they were trying to

1224
01:19:55,120 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 2: pull her over for speeding, and we had music blaring

1225
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,960
Speaker 2: and stuff, and so she didn't really see the cop

1226
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:07,160
Speaker 2: behind her. And then also she also wanted to give

1227
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 2: me time to get the alcohol bottles out of the thing.

1228
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 2: So when we got pulled over, she was the one

1229
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:17,080
Speaker 2: that was in trouble. They wrote me a citation or something,

1230
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 2: but she was the one in trouble for like if

1231
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,599
Speaker 2: they said she was trying to evade the police or whatever.

1232
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 2: So what they did was they took her to jail

1233
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:33,960
Speaker 2: and gave me her keys. I believe they gave me

1234
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 2: a breath liiser or something, gave me her keys to

1235
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 2: drive back to Kansas City instead of impounding her car.

1236
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 2: But she was the one that was taken to jail,

1237
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 2: and she called her aunt and uncle and they came

1238
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,599
Speaker 2: and builed her out and everything. But I remember that

1239
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 2: specifically because I remember that even being like a point

1240
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 2: of contention between her and I was because you know,

1241
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 2: I had her car for a couple of days, and

1242
01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 2: I'm a drug addict, and so I'm just you know,

1243
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 2: I'm using the shit out of her car until she

1244
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:21,360
Speaker 2: gets out, you know, so that I can go get

1245
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 2: what I need and blah blah blah. I never heard

1246
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:31,839
Speaker 2: anything about that until I was in Least Summit, Missouri.

1247
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 2: Had a guy over there that I was dating, and

1248
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:42,160
Speaker 2: he was also a drug addict. I remember being messed

1249
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 2: up and getting gas late at night, and I was

1250
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:47,760
Speaker 2: out of it, and so I forgot to turn my

1251
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 2: headlights back on. So that's what I got pulled over for.

1252
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 2: Usually I was never in Missouri. I just had no

1253
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,640
Speaker 2: reason to be. I usually got all my drugs like

1254
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 2: an ur Argentina or Casey K and stuff. Plus I

1255
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:07,280
Speaker 2: also was pretty sure that that I had forgotten about it.

1256
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 2: But you know, I knew it wasn't good that I

1257
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:13,200
Speaker 2: had never taken care of that ticket in Booneville. So

1258
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,200
Speaker 2: when I got pulled over that night for not having

1259
01:22:16,240 --> 01:22:22,920
Speaker 2: any headlights on, that's when they ran my name, and

1260
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:27,040
Speaker 2: they found out that I had an outstanding warrant in Booneville.

1261
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:31,320
Speaker 2: And I remember even being like Booneville. What would I

1262
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:34,800
Speaker 2: even have been doing in Booneville? And then when they

1263
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:37,519
Speaker 2: told me like, well you lettered on the highway and

1264
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:41,240
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, I was like, oh shit, because I mean,

1265
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 2: it had been a long time since that. So they

1266
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 2: did they extra guided me out to Booneville. But then

1267
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,719
Speaker 2: I remember getting a hold of Angie and her mom

1268
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 2: because at that point I was on such bad terms

1269
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:00,680
Speaker 2: with my parents that there was no way that they

1270
01:23:00,680 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 2: were going to bail me out or even take my

1271
01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:10,160
Speaker 2: phone calls or whatever. Well, they came and bailed me out,

1272
01:23:10,760 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 2: but there wasn't any shot time. There wasn't. Maybe they

1273
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 2: told me they were going to put me on probation

1274
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:22,160
Speaker 2: or something, but I didn't follow through. I just got

1275
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 2: the hell out of Dodge and just never went back

1276
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 2: to Missouri again for years and years. And then I

1277
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 2: remember later on when I got sober, sober for quite

1278
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 2: some time. This was so much later, it was twenty ten.

1279
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 2: I looked it up, and I guess some of that

1280
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 2: stuff can fall off for your record after a while,

1281
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 2: or they just don't because I remember Angie and her

1282
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:52,680
Speaker 2: mom had to pay a fine for they had to

1283
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 2: pay my bond and they had to pay a fine

1284
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:59,360
Speaker 2: for that old literating ticket. But then I never heard

1285
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:01,639
Speaker 2: anything about it again, and it just went away.

1286
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 1: The court, the docket has it says that you pled

1287
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: guilty and that you got forty eight hours of shock,

1288
01:24:10,360 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 1: jail time, and two years of probation. But and so,

1289
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 1: but Byron's legal team, as you heard in the podcast,

1290
01:24:18,040 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 1: wondered if there was some big thing that you had

1291
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 1: gotten in trouble for. Then then came forward and all

1292
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 1: of this with like recording the June fifth call and

1293
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 1: the guilty plea for the littering charge, that all of

1294
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 1: that stuff was connected, and that because you got into

1295
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:41,719
Speaker 1: some big trouble for something, you basically flipped on Byron

1296
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 1: to get out of something bigger.

1297
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 2: No, like I said, I didn't have access to any

1298
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 2: big people. I didn't have any That's just ridiculous. I

1299
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:58,240
Speaker 2: was like barely, I barely had enough drugs to get

1300
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 2: me through the day. I didn't know anybody that the

1301
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:07,680
Speaker 2: bigger deal people in the drug world are not going

1302
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 2: to trust a white girl from Johnson County with any

1303
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 2: I mean, you know what I mean, I wasn't even

1304
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 2: usually the person that made like the purchase for stuff.

1305
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 2: That whole thing just had me cracking up because I

1306
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:26,160
Speaker 2: was like, guy, I wish maybe something, but I hadn't.

1307
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 2: And that's why I said at trial that, you know, no,

1308
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:35,400
Speaker 2: I've never even been in trouble with the police, because

1309
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,519
Speaker 2: all I had known and I didn't consider that trouble

1310
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:42,840
Speaker 2: with the police. Trouble with the police would be, like

1311
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:48,120
Speaker 2: I thought, something bigger, your friend getting pulled over and

1312
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 2: taken to jail and then they give you her keys

1313
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:55,160
Speaker 2: to drive away, you know, and then getting picked up

1314
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: on a warrant and then never hearing anything about it. Again,

1315
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 2: didn't that that wasn't what I, you know, thought getting

1316
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 2: in trouble was.

1317
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: And I think according to Byron's legal team, it was

1318
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:12,479
Speaker 1: that right. You didn't You said in your deposition that

1319
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:14,559
Speaker 1: you hadn't been in trouble with the police. And then

1320
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:18,760
Speaker 1: I think their bigger issue is the fact that prosecutors

1321
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:24,080
Speaker 1: didn't disclose that. To Byron's defense attorney, that's a brady

1322
01:26:24,120 --> 01:26:25,040
Speaker 1: violation because it.

1323
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:28,280
Speaker 2: Wasn't turn over anything. They possibly can't. But I love

1324
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:33,879
Speaker 2: how that makes me some evil, lying bitch that uh

1325
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, wanted to destroy his life. Well, it just

1326
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 2: doesn't make any sense. They're just looking for anything. Yeah. Now,

1327
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:46,879
Speaker 2: since then, I have gotten in trouble with the police.

1328
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 2: When I was twenty one, I got a DUI and

1329
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:55,879
Speaker 2: then I got another DUI in twenty fifteen.

1330
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 1: So as we sit here today, are you you sober?

1331
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been sober for about five and a half months.

1332
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 2: That's a yeah.

1333
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:10,599
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie.

1334
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:16,720
Speaker 2: It's a daily thing, and you know, it takes a

1335
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,680
Speaker 2: lot of therapy. Like I went through this uh TMS program.

1336
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:24,360
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know what that is. It's

1337
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:31,520
Speaker 2: like transcranial stimulation something. It's supposed to help with PTSD.

1338
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 2: But yeah, I know, I mean, I'm it's.

1339
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:36,280
Speaker 1: A daily struggle.

1340
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 2: It's a daily struggle, definitely. And it's also just not

1341
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 2: just because of that stuff that happens in mental illness

1342
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 2: and substance abuse just runs rampant through my family. So

1343
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 2: I just and ever since all that stuff happened, like

1344
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 2: I really struggle to care about myself and care about

1345
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:01,799
Speaker 2: what happens to me and just feel you know, worthy

1346
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,679
Speaker 2: of anything, and just I mean I have days where

1347
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,920
Speaker 2: I just I don't I don't think it's ever going

1348
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:12,360
Speaker 2: to be fixed. I have days right, just don't care,

1349
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,400
Speaker 2: you know, if I wake up again or if I anything,

1350
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 2: It's just I don't know.

1351
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm okay, it's not but I am sorry.

1352
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1353
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:34,160
Speaker 1: We are going to end this episode here. What comes

1354
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: next is Kelly's graphic eyewitness account of what she says

1355
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 1: she saw the night Anastasia was murdered, details about the

1356
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:46,679
Speaker 1: June fifth recorded phone call, and how she feels about

1357
01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: Byron getting a chance to prove his innocence. And so

1358
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 1: your reaction to the possibility of a new trial is

1359
01:28:55,720 --> 01:29:07,600
Speaker 1: bring it. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast

1360
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 1: are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.

1361
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,879
Speaker 1: If you, or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts

1362
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:21,600
Speaker 1: or a crisis, please no help is available. Call or

1363
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: text nine to eight eight, or chat online at the

1364
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: Suicide and Crisis Lifelines website at nine eight eight lifeline

1365
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:33,760
Speaker 1: dot org. To see photos, maps and documents related to

1366
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 1: this season's story, follow The Real Killer podcast on Instagram

1367
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:45,559
Speaker 1: and at TRK podcast on TikTok. The Real Killer is

1368
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me

1369
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:55,200
Speaker 1: Leah Rothman. Executive producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for

1370
01:29:55,280 --> 01:30:00,679
Speaker 1: AYR Media. Written by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design

1371
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:06,280
Speaker 1: by Cameron Taggy, Mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi Audio

1372
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:12,920
Speaker 1: engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson. Legal counsel for

1373
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 1: a y R Media, Gianni Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia,

1374
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:19,280
Speaker 1: Maya Howard