Speaker 1: Episode four forty nine, How Women Can Negotiate Better with
Speaker 1: Catherine Valentine.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
Speaker 2: save money, embrace simplicity, and liver your life. Here your
Speaker 2: hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen,
Speaker 1: my name is Jill, and today we are talking about negotiation,
Speaker 1: and we do a negotiation negotiation that's a hard word
Speaker 1: to say, episode every year, whether it's on your salary
Speaker 1: or negotiating money off because it is the biggest it's
Speaker 1: one of the biggest impacts you can have with your
Speaker 1: finances is having the skill of negotiation. But there is
Speaker 1: a stigma around women negotiating the workplace. Talking with Catherine
Speaker 1: about is that a myth? Is it fact? How can
Speaker 1: we work around it? What are best practices? All that stuff.
Speaker 1: This is such a good episode.
Speaker 3: I find this topic to be so fascinating and it's
Speaker 3: another one of those ones where I like to have
Speaker 3: the reminders of how can we do this, how can
Speaker 3: we hone the skill, how can we do it better?
Speaker 3: And Catherine brings some really fantastic research and statistics and
Speaker 3: findings that really help to give us the knowledge that
Speaker 3: we need so that we can hone the skill set
Speaker 3: that we need to keep doing this and reminding ourselves
Speaker 3: that we can do this and it can go successfully.
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Speaker 1: Yes, So let's get into this interview with Catherine. She's
Speaker 1: the CEO of Worth More Strategies, and she helps organizations
Speaker 1: advance female talent, and she helps women negotiate for more
Speaker 1: and she is such a who. Love talking to her
Speaker 1: so much valuable information, hoping and.
Speaker 4: Enjoy Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Catherine, Welcome to Frugal Friends. We are super excited for
Speaker 1: this conversation about negotiation.
Speaker 5: I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 3: This one's so necessary. We've had a couple of conversations
Speaker 3: about negotiation in the past, but I don't think it
Speaker 3: can be overstated, especially the unique perspective you're bringing today.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to this. So to kick us off, Catherine,
Speaker 3: can you tell us specifically related to women in negotiation,
Speaker 3: what are some of the beliefs that you see we
Speaker 3: have about this topic that might be outdated or just
Speaker 3: flat out untrue.
Speaker 5: Oh I love this one.
Speaker 4: Well, so let's see.
Speaker 5: At this point in time, I've reviewed about thirteen thousand
Speaker 5: pages of like very dense academic research on this, and
Speaker 5: so my goal here is to be able to make
Speaker 5: that so concise that you don't have to go read
Speaker 5: the thirteen thousand pages of academic research on this, Thank
Speaker 5: you so much. The one that stands out, i'd say
Speaker 5: there's two. One is this belief that as women were
Speaker 5: not good negotiators is false. That is false, and that
Speaker 5: is withheld in the data time after time after time.
Speaker 5: That that is false. We are better negotiators than men when
Speaker 5: negotiating on behalf of others, So on behalf of a team,
Speaker 5: or children, or elderly parents or anyone else, we consistently
Speaker 5: get better negotiate outcomes than men. We aren't as successful
Speaker 5: when negotiating on behalf of ourselves, and that is mostly
Speaker 5: not because of talent, but because of information. It's because
Speaker 5: the information that you can get when you google how
Speaker 5: do I negotiate is largely written for a male audience.
Speaker 5: It just doesn't come with that cabyet. So that's what
Speaker 5: we're going to try and unravel a little bit today,
Speaker 5: because women should be able to have negotiate outcomes that
Speaker 5: are just as good, if not better than men, with
Speaker 5: the right information. The other thing that is kind of
Speaker 5: I would say like holds women back from negotiating is
Speaker 5: this fear of backlash, and a lot of times people say, like, oh,
Speaker 5: that's just in your head. Research would support that that
Speaker 5: is not just in your head. Like, that's a real fear,
Speaker 5: and we can talk about it a little bit if
Speaker 5: you want to, and where it comes from. But if
Speaker 5: you feel that, it's because your spidey sense is very
Speaker 5: well in tuned and it's trying to protect you. And again,
Speaker 5: like we have solutions to that. But don't let somebody
Speaker 5: tell you it's just in your head, because chances are
Speaker 5: it's probably not.
Speaker 1: That's sopful good to hear, yeah, because there is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the backlash thing. I've heard a lot and a lot
Speaker 1: more people are being open about how, hey, I tried
Speaker 1: to negotiate I you know, read the articles. I tried
Speaker 1: the things, and it didn't work for me, and it actually,
Speaker 1: maybe sometimes even like put me worse off. So that's
Speaker 1: really good to hear.
Speaker 5: Like, oh, I've lost over this, Like I lost a
Speaker 5: job doing this wrong, which is why I why I
Speaker 5: do this now. But like it's very real. And I
Speaker 5: worked with somebody recently who she negotiated in a way
Speaker 5: that we wouldn't recommend, and as a result of that,
Speaker 5: a lot of the backlash we see now is it's
Speaker 5: not it's very nebulous, right, it's a little harder to
Speaker 5: put your fingers on. And so in her case, what
Speaker 5: happened is instead of she used to do an analysis
Speaker 5: and present to the executive board, and then after the negotiation,
Speaker 5: her boss came by and was like, don't worry, I'll
Speaker 5: present for you now. And so she continues to do
Speaker 5: the work, but he now stands in front of the
Speaker 5: executive board. She's not allowed in the room anymore. And
Speaker 5: again like, it wasn't an explicit conversation, it's just these
Speaker 5: small things that happen that can you sidetrack you a
Speaker 5: little bit?
Speaker 3: Does the research suggest that there is greater risk for
Speaker 3: backlash for females with negotiation than there is with males?
Speaker 5: Oh, this one, I love this question. So the research
Speaker 5: on this one I find particularly fascinating. The research suggests
Speaker 5: that you're at a higher risk of backlash when you're
Speaker 5: negotiating non gender conforming things. So what that means is
Speaker 5: that when we see this, men are at a higher
Speaker 5: risk of backlash when they're negotiating like flexibility, and women
Speaker 5: are at a higher risk of backlash when they're negotiating
Speaker 5: more traditional career things like pay or resources. Now, that's
Speaker 5: without intervention. Like what we're going to talk about now
Speaker 5: is their solutions to this. This does not have to.
Speaker 4: Be this way.
Speaker 5: But if all we had to go off on was
Speaker 5: what you googled, then that's kind of the situation we
Speaker 5: find ourselves in.
Speaker 3: I think it's helpful to know the launching point, though,
Speaker 3: and to help normalize maybe some of it, as you said,
Speaker 3: Spidey senses that we might be feeling, to know there
Speaker 3: is research to suggest that what you're feeling could be
Speaker 3: based in some degree of accuracy. That doesn't mean you
Speaker 3: have to live there, but knowing where we're coming from,
Speaker 3: what we're at greatest risk for, can be really helpful,
Speaker 3: and knowing how do we respond.
Speaker 5: Then yes, if you need someone who's read thirteen thousand
Speaker 5: pages of research to tell you you're not crazy, I'm
Speaker 5: telling you you're not crazy.
Speaker 4: That's what it'll take for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, book, yes, books, Okay. So I want to know
Speaker 1: what are some of these wrong ways to do it
Speaker 1: that receive backlash or like how did you lose your
Speaker 1: job negotiating? Like what are these things that we need
Speaker 1: to be aware of so that we don't experience this?
Speaker 1: What are the wrong ways?
Speaker 5: So the wrong way would be to follow the advice
Speaker 5: in the Wall Street Journal last year that said just
Speaker 5: go in and say I deserve to be paid more.
Speaker 5: It's not a particularly compelling argument, but also that's a
Speaker 5: really good way to tick someone off, especially if you
Speaker 5: identify as a woman. What I did in my particular
Speaker 5: case was I realized on Friday that I had an
Speaker 5: opportunity to negotiate. I spent the whole weekend, like you know,
Speaker 5: buying the books, underlining them whatever. I wrote a script
Speaker 5: that I have never been accused of underpreparing for something,
Speaker 5: and I went in on Monday at ten am and
Speaker 5: tried to negotiate. And I didn't realize it, but I
Speaker 5: was using an advice that had been perfected by and
Speaker 5: written for men. Right it's men saying well, this worked
Speaker 5: for me, it should work for you, like it will
Speaker 5: work for you. But one thing that we didn't factor in,
Speaker 5: especially not ten years ago, is like I don't look
Speaker 5: like you, and so it's not gonna work that way
Speaker 5: for me. And what ended up happening was I ended
Speaker 5: up offending the person that I was negotiating with completely
Speaker 5: and completely unintentionally, and then being told that I was
Speaker 5: no longer a culture fit, which, as we know, doesn't
Speaker 5: go particularly well when you're I was an intern trying
Speaker 5: to get a job, and so as a result of that,
Speaker 5: the internship no longer made sense. And as a result
Speaker 5: of that, per company protocol, I was escorted out by security,
Speaker 5: because if anyone you know, chooses to leave or is
Speaker 5: told to leave the role, they are escorted out by
Speaker 5: security then deposited onto the sidewalk. Oh, Jen's face is
Speaker 5: just like.
Speaker 4: It's okay.
Speaker 1: I survived, yeah and thrived. So so what are the
Speaker 1: so in twenty twenty four when we're recording this, like,
Speaker 1: what are these things that are still being told to
Speaker 1: people to do that are not working?
Speaker 5: Yeah, to go in and say I deserve to be
Speaker 5: paid more like not working it's not effective strategy for anyone.
Speaker 5: It's particularly not an effective strategy for marginalized groups. If
Speaker 5: you were to and this is the part that honestly
Speaker 5: really gets me, like, this is what keeps me up
Speaker 5: at night. If you were to be a well intentioned
Speaker 5: and you know, my researchers and women, so let's talk
Speaker 5: about that. But a well intentioned woman who wanted to negotiate,
Speaker 5: and you were to google how do I negotiate the
Speaker 5: vast majority of the resources that you see are not
Speaker 5: for you, but they don't come with that caveat right.
Speaker 5: So it's a little bit like me, I live down
Speaker 5: the road from Augusta. It's a little bit like going
Speaker 5: to the Masters and giving all these men golf clubs
Speaker 5: made for a five foot foot four women and saying
Speaker 5: good luck, have a great time. Like that's what we're
Speaker 5: doing to women in a lot of business areas, but
Speaker 5: particularly negotiation.
Speaker 3: Are you finding then that the tips given to women
Speaker 3: should be different than the tips given to men, Like
Speaker 3: one pair of clubs will work for one person, they
Speaker 3: won't work for another. Like do we kind of have
Speaker 3: to be aware of our age, our gender? Like what
Speaker 3: are the factors that you think might play into this?
Speaker 5: So the one that I study is gender, And what
Speaker 5: we've found there is there's sort of three research based
Speaker 5: solutions that we would suggest. Of the three, all of
Speaker 5: them are best practice negotiations. It's just that if men
Speaker 5: do them, they may have slightly higher, slightly better outcomes.
Speaker 5: If women do them, we get slightly better outcomes and
Speaker 5: virtually eliminate the risk of backlash because men don't carry
Speaker 5: that same risk, you know, the benefit to them is
Speaker 5: not as large.
Speaker 1: And is this whether you're negotiating with a male or
Speaker 1: female supervisor? Is there a difference?
Speaker 5: Okay, so, Jen, this is the most popular question I
Speaker 5: get asked. And I love this because when I started
Speaker 5: to study it, I expected to have to write two
Speaker 5: different sort of manuals. If you will, like, this is
Speaker 5: what you do if you're negotiating with a woman, this
Speaker 5: is what you do if you negotiate with a man.
Speaker 5: What the research shows is that the risk, like what happens,
Speaker 5: is actually based on how the world perceives us women
Speaker 5: have biases too, right, and so this is perpetuated by
Speaker 5: women just as it is perpetuated by men, which means
Speaker 5: that there's one sort of advice on how you should
Speaker 5: negotiate based on how you present yourself to the world,
Speaker 5: regardless of whether you're negotiating with all genders. Frankly, okay,
Speaker 5: I want to know now, I'm dying to get into it.
Speaker 5: What are these strategies then? So for us women we
Speaker 5: are predominantly female listenership, what are the strategies that would
Speaker 5: increase our chances of success? If we've talked about the
Speaker 5: ways that it does doesn't work, what are the ways
Speaker 5: where it can work for us? So three strategies, And
Speaker 5: I would say you said your listenership, listenership is predominantly female.
Speaker 5: If there are anyone of other genders listening, I would
Speaker 5: keep listening because chances are you're going to negotiate with
Speaker 5: a woman at some point in time, and so it's
Speaker 5: helpful to understand these dynamics. The three things are number one,
Speaker 5: think holistically, Number two ask relationally, and number three discuss collaboratively.
Speaker 5: Would it be helpful if I kind of like stepped
Speaker 5: into each of those, yeah? Please. So the first one,
Speaker 5: think holistically is when you're thinking about what to negotiate,
Speaker 5: I would ask yourself, you know, what would increase my impact,
Speaker 5: what would reduce my stress, what would bring me joy?
Speaker 5: It doesn't just have to be one thing. In fact,
Speaker 5: actually we have a list now of seventy six things
Speaker 5: that we've seen women successfully negotiate, So there's a very
Speaker 5: broad spectrum of what you can go after.
Speaker 1: Think broadly.
Speaker 5: So in many cases, sure you'll want to negotiate for
Speaker 5: probably some compensation thing, But what else can you ask
Speaker 5: for that would make a meaningful difference to you? That's
Speaker 5: the first one. The second one is to ask relationally.
Speaker 5: So this is based on research out of Harvard showing
Speaker 5: that if your ask is both legitimate and beneficial, then
Speaker 5: you can virtually eliminate that risk of backlash. We were
Speaker 5: talking about what I found, and I don't do coaching anymore,
Speaker 5: but what I found when I did coaching is that
Speaker 5: that's really hard for working people. If we're just so
Speaker 5: busy thinking about how to do that is like mind boggling,
Speaker 5: and no one has time for it. So we actually
Speaker 5: created a formula which is past performance plus future vision
Speaker 5: plus to ask and then stop talking. So Jiller, Jen,
Speaker 5: what's something that you want to pretend like we're negotiating.
Speaker 4: Oh, I got one.
Speaker 3: My mom's trying to get a job in the medical field.
Speaker 5: Great, I love this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they want to pay her a very specific amount
Speaker 3: because that's what they do. This is pay scale, And
Speaker 3: I'm like, you need to negotiate this.
Speaker 5: By the way, I agree, when someone gives you a
Speaker 5: job offer, they expect you to negotiate most of the time.
Speaker 5: So what I would say in this case is, there
Speaker 5: are reasons why they gave your mom that job offer, right,
Speaker 5: so past performance for her would be just emphasizing those reasons.
Speaker 5: So as you know, I have experience in X. I
Speaker 5: don't know much about this world, but I experienced an
Speaker 5: X and I believe that I can use that to
Speaker 5: help us reach our quarterly targets or annual targets or
Speaker 5: whatever it is that you know is the reason why
Speaker 5: they're hiring her in order to achieve that. I wanted
Speaker 5: to talk to you about being paid at the top
Speaker 5: end of the band because I have never been an
Speaker 5: average performer. I wanted to talk to you about being
Speaker 5: able to attend this training. And I wanted to talk
Speaker 5: to you about and now I'm just making things up, Jill.
Speaker 5: But oh and I wanted to talk to you about
Speaker 5: getting an hour a week with X person for the
Speaker 5: first few months so that I can get up and running. Right,
Speaker 5: these are things that compensation is one of them, but
Speaker 5: other things that will help her be more impactful in
Speaker 5: the role. And then the next part of the formula
Speaker 5: would be to ask what do you think and then
Speaker 5: we can start to have a conversation. Right, maybe they say, hey,
Speaker 5: budgets are locked through the end of the year, so
Speaker 5: we can't do this, but we can do this so
Speaker 5: that gives your mom then a chance to step in
Speaker 5: and say, Okay, I understand that you can't quite meet
Speaker 5: where I would like to be on you know, base salary.
Speaker 5: Can we make it up with a signing bonus so
Speaker 5: that I can come start working for you? Okay, Well,
Speaker 5: now we're having a conversation about other places we could go, right.
Speaker 5: Does that make sense? Does that formula make sense?
Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Kind of what to come to the table with this
Speaker 3: kind of blueprint? And I think it says I'm coming
Speaker 3: with ideas not just to I deserve so give me,
Speaker 3: but reasons kind of these receipts for why this will
Speaker 3: be advantageous to all of us. I love that collaborative
Speaker 3: word that you've described, that this isn't just for me,
Speaker 3: This isn't just me trying to grab and take, which
Speaker 3: never feels good for anybody, even business owners. But to
Speaker 3: come at it from this perspective, although you haven't gotten
Speaker 3: to the relational point, but I am kind of like
Speaker 3: seeing how it's massaging that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have one more question about this point. We
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one, we had an interview with Rich
Speaker 1: Jones and he talked about this concept of bring your receipts,
Speaker 1: so keeping track of things that you've done for your companies,
Speaker 1: which is hard for women to just like keep track
Speaker 1: of our accomplishments in general. So like that's a foundational piece.
Speaker 1: But I think what's hard for me to sometimes understand
Speaker 1: is how my quote unquote receipts are benefiting these parts
Speaker 1: of the company that I don't fully understand, like your
Speaker 1: Q one goals, or how do I relate it back
Speaker 1: to something that's going to peak management's interests, like something
Speaker 1: that's going to feel like you know, it's a mutual
Speaker 1: beneficial experience if I don't fully know, especially going into
Speaker 1: a new job, but I don't fully know what that
Speaker 1: other side really wants.
Speaker 5: What it's a fascinating question. I would say there's two things. One,
Speaker 5: the job description is a great place to go look
Speaker 5: and remind yourself of why the company hired you, because
Speaker 5: why they hired you is typically what that future vision
Speaker 5: part is. It's because we need to onboard onboard three
Speaker 5: times as many people as we used to. It's because
Speaker 5: we need to reduce inventory, it's because we need to
Speaker 5: increase sales. Is kind of an easy one, but it's
Speaker 5: the people that sit in places that aren't necessarily tied
Speaker 5: directly to revenue, where that job description can be extra helpful,
Speaker 5: like these are the operational goals that I'm delivering on
Speaker 5: that help this company run. The second thing I would
Speaker 5: say is, particularly in the job interview process, it's really
Speaker 5: helpful to ask that question, Jen, It's important to me
Speaker 5: that I'm delivering an impact in the way that matters
Speaker 5: to the company. Can you help me understand how this
Speaker 5: ties to larger goals? And the great part about asking
Speaker 5: that question is one it illustrates to them that you care,
Speaker 5: but two, it gives you the words that you need
Speaker 5: when you're negotiating later on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, double duty.
Speaker 1: Also, I would think in that vein action based promises
Speaker 1: speak louder than like a percentage or an arbitrary goal
Speaker 1: number like promise would like I have shown that I
Speaker 1: can make like x sales calls per hour and YadA
Speaker 1: YadA like performance and action based would speak louder maybe right.
Speaker 5: And to your point, I think what would be even
Speaker 5: more interesting is I've shown that I can bring in
Speaker 5: why deals, right, because the number of calls you make
Speaker 5: is input, not output. Yeah, what is the to your point,
Speaker 5: quantitative output? If you can quantify it, then we know
Speaker 5: you're ahead.
Speaker 4: Of the game.
Speaker 5: And in some roles it's going to be an estimate,
Speaker 5: and that's okay. Don't let the fact that it's not
Speaker 5: exactly perfect stop you from saying about ninety percent. Okay,
Speaker 5: that's fine if that's as much as we can get
Speaker 5: with the data that we have.
Speaker 4: Nice.
Speaker 3: What did you want to say about the relational piece,
Speaker 3: Catherine when it comes to negotiating, because this is something
Speaker 3: that you know. As I hear you all talking, even
Speaker 3: what Jen's bringing up, part of me goes to, okay,
Speaker 3: but if we come with too much data, is that
Speaker 3: going to feel too aggressive to on the offense and
Speaker 3: potentially disrupt relationship As much as I hate to say that,
Speaker 3: because you know, people just want women smiling, and I
Speaker 3: think that that's worth pushing back against. But also no, yeah,
Speaker 3: we could inspire backlash. So how do we bring in
Speaker 3: the relational piece to tether it?
Speaker 5: So the relational piece is just if you that formula,
Speaker 5: it's there. The kind of underlying current is letting people
Speaker 5: know what the impact of your actions is on the
Speaker 5: larger good. And that could be the team, it could
Speaker 5: be the company, it could be your department, what I
Speaker 5: learned when I was coaching women is that women were
Speaker 5: always thinking about what the impact of their actions were
Speaker 5: on other people. You just get credit here if you
Speaker 5: say it out loud, like it's already in our brains.
Speaker 5: We're just going to say it out loud, and that's
Speaker 5: going to make everything go more smoothly. Jill. To your
Speaker 5: point about data, the other thing that I've noticed is
Speaker 5: it's important that you have your data. It's not necessarily helpful,
Speaker 5: regardless of your gender, if you overwhelm somebody with it.
Speaker 5: So you know, hey, I have it here if you
Speaker 5: want to go through it. But what it's telling me
Speaker 5: is X, Y and Z. That way, it's not a
Speaker 5: tsunami of numbers coming on. Yea makes And then the
Speaker 5: third step we were talking about here is to discuss collaboratively.
Speaker 5: Do you want me to go into that one too?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Please.
Speaker 5: So if you make your ask and then you say
Speaker 5: what do you think, that's what I call a conversational lollie,
Speaker 5: which is that now we know it's the other person's
Speaker 5: turn to say something. The reason why we did this
Speaker 5: is because we found that in an attempt to make
Speaker 5: your negotiation partner feel more comfortable, women would actually start
Speaker 5: negotiating against themselves. So I worked with a woman who said,
Speaker 5: and I want to talk about working remotely five days
Speaker 5: a week. I mean I could get it done in four.
Speaker 5: You know, I could probably do it in three. And
Speaker 5: her manager had said nothing the entire time. And so
Speaker 5: we want to volley it to the other person. And
Speaker 5: then we're going to start collaboratively deciding how we can
Speaker 5: get to where we want to go. And so we're
Speaker 5: taking the old mindset of a negotiation is you versus me,
Speaker 5: there's a winner and a loser, and we're throwing it out,
Speaker 5: and we're taking the new mindset of a negotiation is
Speaker 5: us versus the problem, and the problem is anything that
Speaker 5: prevents the employee from delivering their best work at their
Speaker 5: lowest stress level. It's a problem for the employee. That's
Speaker 5: a problem for the employer because they're not getting as
Speaker 5: much as they could out of you. Right, And so
Speaker 5: that's kind of now we can do some trade offs.
Speaker 5: One of my past clients was trying to negotiate being
Speaker 5: offline at night and had this conversation, you know, what
Speaker 5: do you think And what she heard back was, well,
Speaker 5: that giant report that we give to the whole company
Speaker 5: is do on Friday mornings and it's like, wow, that
Speaker 5: is a relevant thing, Like, yes, that's great information, that's
Speaker 5: a great point. Okay, what if I can be offline
Speaker 5: at six pm every night except Thursdays? And then her
Speaker 5: manager was like, yes, I can agree to that. And
Speaker 5: so now we're just having a conversation where we can
Speaker 5: be open about what we value and about the information
Speaker 5: that we have because we have different pieces of information
Speaker 5: and we can start to trade off amongst those things.
Speaker 5: So if you think about Jill's mom, I'm sure the
Speaker 5: first thing that she'll ask for is base pay because
Speaker 5: we want like that we get comped year on year.
Speaker 5: We want that. But if they can't do it, Okay,
Speaker 5: now what can we trade off on? Can we do
Speaker 5: a performance bonus? Can we do a signing bonus? Can
Speaker 5: we do you know this conference that I've really wanted
Speaker 5: to go to? Where else can we go to find
Speaker 5: value that actually works for both of us?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So you said there's over like seventy things outside of
Speaker 1: base pay that people can negotiate for, Like what do
Speaker 1: you find people have the most success with those peripheral things?
Speaker 5: So people tend to have the most success with things
Speaker 5: that very clearly benefit both parties, and so to the
Speaker 5: extent that you can show how it benefits both parties,
Speaker 5: you're winning. I know one story comes to mind of
Speaker 5: a woman who was negotiating a promotion which isn't outwardly
Speaker 5: maybe as obvious how that helps both. But she was
Speaker 5: in sales, and so when she went to a sales
Speaker 5: meeting with manager on her business card, people didn't believe
Speaker 5: that she could do what she said she was doing.
Speaker 5: They didn't think she had the credibility within the company
Speaker 5: to do it. And as soon as she got promoted
Speaker 5: to director, all of a sudden, her conversions tripled because
Speaker 5: people believed that when they saw director on business card
Speaker 5: that she could do what she said she was doing,
Speaker 5: and then they didn't have as many hesitations. And so
Speaker 5: I think again, when you can draw that direct line
Speaker 5: of if I'm going to go into sales, I need
Speaker 5: to be able to show internal credibility. A director title
Speaker 5: will help me do that and will help me land
Speaker 5: more sales. Like now we're on the same page with things.
Speaker 5: I've had people negotiate IVF benefits. I've had people negotiate
Speaker 5: car allowances four oh one k stuff a lot of bonuses,
Speaker 5: raises more people on their teams. So one of the things,
Speaker 5: and I'm happy to go into this if it's helpful,
Speaker 5: but there are significant gender gaps in compensation and resourcing
Speaker 5: outside of just base pay, which is what we talk
Speaker 5: about a lot. One of them is that women are
Speaker 5: generally given team sizes that are anywhere twenty five to
Speaker 5: forty percent smaller than their male colleagues to get the
Speaker 5: same work done. And so people on your team might
Speaker 5: be something that's advantageous to negotiate.
Speaker 1: I would have never thought of that. That's exact a
Speaker 1: list of things for you.
Speaker 5: Jin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's that's crazy because there I have
Speaker 1: seen so many of my friends in positions where they
Speaker 1: are doing two people's jobs and very commons all they
Speaker 1: want is to do one job. Like, so that is interesting.
Speaker 1: How can we be how can we start to open
Speaker 1: our eyes and recognize opportunities for negotiation because it's easy, Yes,
Speaker 1: you're negotiating a new job offer, or you're negotiating like
Speaker 1: a promotion, Like, how can we start to keep our
Speaker 1: eyes open for these mutually beneficial opportunities for negotiation?
Speaker 5: So I would say they tend to come. You know,
Speaker 5: you just mentioned one a job offer. Also, when you've
Speaker 5: had a huge win, you had more political capital that
Speaker 5: you can use in this negotiation. So you just landed
Speaker 5: a giant client, that is a perfect time to negotiate
Speaker 5: more people on your team to serve that client. Right,
Speaker 5: those types of things. Another one I would say is
Speaker 5: when there's been a meaningful shift in the immediate world
Speaker 5: around you. So let's say your boss announces they're going
Speaker 5: to leave, that might be a good time to negotiate,
Speaker 5: especially if you would like to step into that role,
Speaker 5: even just in their interim. Let's say that another team member,
Speaker 5: you know, jen to your point of like people doing
Speaker 5: two jobs. If a team member leaves, it's a pretty
Speaker 5: good time for you to negotiate because you can more
Speaker 5: work is going to get thrown on you. You might
Speaker 5: as well ask for more resources or more reward to
Speaker 5: do that work. For one thing that happens just popping
Speaker 5: into my mind. One of the things that happens quite
Speaker 5: a bit is I have people say, well, like now
Speaker 5: it's not a good time to negotiate because the company
Speaker 5: is doing layoffs. It's not necessarily true because if the
Speaker 5: company has laid off your boss, your chances are at
Speaker 5: least fifty percent ish less expensive than your boss. So
Speaker 5: if going to ask you to do your boss's job,
Speaker 5: doing it, you know you get a twenty percent raise,
Speaker 5: the company is still saving a ton of money. So
Speaker 5: there's different ways to think about things like that. The
Speaker 5: one I would say is a common misconception is people
Speaker 5: think that annual reviews is the time to negotiate. Please
Speaker 5: hear me when I say this, That is not the
Speaker 5: time to negotiate because by the time annual reviews have
Speaker 5: rolled around, if you walk into your annual review and
Speaker 5: you ask your boss for something and you surprise them,
Speaker 5: in a lot of situations, they're not in a place
Speaker 5: where they can say yes, because most companies end up
Speaker 5: front running all of that by making budgets do three
Speaker 5: months before annual reviews. So your boss is in a
Speaker 5: position where inherently they have to say, I don't have
Speaker 5: the authority to make that decision right now. Let's talk
Speaker 5: again in six months. And so what we always encourage
Speaker 5: people to do is think of your schedule a mid
Speaker 5: year check in and think of it as if it
Speaker 5: were your annual review. Hey, I want to talk to
Speaker 5: you about this promotion, and then if they say no,
Speaker 5: you say, well, what do I need to demonstrate to
Speaker 5: prove that I'm ready for that? By the time annual
Speaker 5: reviews rolls around, they'll give you two or three things
Speaker 5: you need to do. You go do them, and then
Speaker 5: when annual reviews rolls around, they already know you're going
Speaker 5: to ask for it, so they already budgeted for it.
Speaker 5: It just makes it you're speeding up the cycle. It
Speaker 5: makes it a lot easier to get a yes in
Speaker 5: that conversation.
Speaker 3: Do you have any specific tips for people who work
Speaker 3: in some traditionally it feels very gridlocked in the way
Speaker 3: you move through.
Speaker 4: Professional growth.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking teachers and nurses at these very large establishments
Speaker 3: where it literally is no. At your tenth year you
Speaker 3: receive a three percent and then from there it's er
Speaker 3: point zero five percent, and it seems to just be
Speaker 3: related to the time that you've been here, maybe the
Speaker 3: degree of education that you have, and that's it your
Speaker 3: cog in the wheel, like is I talked to so
Speaker 3: many people in these spaces and they feel so deflated
Speaker 3: by conversations about negotiation because they're like, yeah, that's great
Speaker 3: for everyone else, it's not for me though, what would
Speaker 3: you say to that?
Speaker 5: One hundred percent? So I was a teacher. I only
Speaker 5: made it for a year. Turns out it wasn't that
Speaker 5: good at it. But I know what you mean, Like,
Speaker 5: I know what you mean about this. You know, maybe
Speaker 5: it doesn't feel like there's as much wiggle room. What
Speaker 5: I've seen people effectively do in that situation is really
Speaker 5: think creatively about what they can ask for. So when
Speaker 5: I was a first year teacher, I knew I couldn't
Speaker 5: negotiate my salary. Or maybe I could, but I was
Speaker 5: under the impression I could not, And so what I
Speaker 5: negotiated was more time with the lead teacher because I
Speaker 5: knew that if she was in my classroom more, it
Speaker 5: was going to make me better, faster, and that was
Speaker 5: going to save me time. So I wasn't going to
Speaker 5: be working as many nights and weekends because an hour
Speaker 5: from her was worth ten of my hours just in
Speaker 5: terms of knowledge. Right, So what else can you negotiate?
Speaker 5: Are you pregnant and the walk from the parking lot
Speaker 5: beyond the parking lot is kicking your butt? Okay? Well,
Speaker 5: can you negotiate to have a parking space towards the
Speaker 5: front for a little while. Can you negotiate, I mean,
Speaker 5: to your point sometimes that pay is associated with education.
Speaker 5: Can you negotiate that they will sponsor you for an
Speaker 5: education program. Can you negotiate to have a little bit
Speaker 5: lighter of a teaching load so that you can do
Speaker 5: get your masters in whatever? Can you negotiate that they
Speaker 5: will recommend you for X, Y and Z fellowship all
Speaker 5: of those things. I've even had women negotiate to like
Speaker 5: you be the teacher that speaks at the conference, because
Speaker 5: then that allows them to go to the conference for free.
Speaker 5: There are things like that that I think you absolutely
Speaker 5: can negotiate. It's really just you have to get more creative,
Speaker 5: I think than some of us in business sing to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think recognizing that there's plenty of non monetary
Speaker 3: opportunities to negotiate. It's it doesn't always just have to
Speaker 3: associate with the raise. Sometimes it is flexibility, resource training,
Speaker 3: that sort of a thing. I know we're talking a
Speaker 3: lot about kind of negotiation within a job, and a
Speaker 3: lot of this has to do with maybe working in
Speaker 3: the more corporate or business world. But to throw a
Speaker 3: curveball at you, I'm curious if you've got any other
Speaker 3: thoughts on the types of opportunities to negotiate. Maybe for
Speaker 3: our people who might own their own small businesses or
Speaker 3: they're not working at all, they're just kind of looking
Speaker 3: for opportunities to strengthen their negotiation skills, Like, where else
Speaker 3: can we be aware of opportunities to negotiate?
Speaker 5: Well, let me take those two groups separately. Okay, So
Speaker 5: for entrepreneurs, we have an opportunity to negotiate anytime we're
Speaker 5: in front of a client or a vendor. As a thought,
Speaker 5: one of the best negotiation things I've done as an entrepreneurs,
Speaker 5: I set up a board of advisors. A board of
Speaker 5: directors is a legal entity. You need lawyers and blah blah.
Speaker 5: A board of advisors is not. My board of advisors
Speaker 5: were two mentors that I adored and I like to
Speaker 5: spend time with. But also it meant that I was
Speaker 5: when I was negotiating with really big clients, I could say, ooh,
Speaker 5: that's a lot less than we've typically charged. I'm going
Speaker 5: to have to put that one in front of my
Speaker 5: board of advisors. And then a lot of times I
Speaker 5: could come back and say, like, the board of advisors
Speaker 5: isn't liking X Y, and Z and I don't think
Speaker 5: they're going to approve it. Can we work on this? Right,
Speaker 5: So it gave us sort of a common enemy, but
Speaker 5: it also allowed me to be a little bit protected
Speaker 5: because I was new at this. I didn't know what
Speaker 5: I was doing for other folks who want to negotiate
Speaker 5: in other ways. I mean, the great thing about negotiation
Speaker 5: is that happens to you all day long. Right, So
Speaker 5: you go to dinner, you order a glass of wine,
Speaker 5: you actually don't like how it tastes. That's a negotiation. Now,
Speaker 5: how do we send that back and get something else
Speaker 5: that you do? Like you go to hotel, they put
Speaker 5: you next to an elevator on a floor where there
Speaker 5: is a field trip. How do we negotiate our way
Speaker 5: out of that? Right, anytime you're feeling less than satisfied, Like,
Speaker 5: anytime you feel that feeling, I think it's a good
Speaker 5: opportunity to say, Okay, what about this? Can I negotiate?
Speaker 5: Because chances are you influence and control a lot more
Speaker 5: than we originally assume.
Speaker 1: I love that because so often we will just kind
Speaker 1: of like grit our teeth and bear things and then
Speaker 1: be bitter about it. But by just positioning ourselves changing
Speaker 1: our mindset to let me exercise this power that I have.
Speaker 1: The worst I can get as a no, but with
Speaker 1: the skills to do it well, I'll get more yes
Speaker 1: is more often well.
Speaker 5: And Jen, the great part about what you just said
Speaker 5: is if you negotiate in this way, the worst that
Speaker 5: will happen is actually a no. It's not hey, we're
Speaker 5: going to escort you out by security. It's not hey,
Speaker 5: we're going to take away your opportunities. It's not any
Speaker 5: of these things, right, It's actually just a no. And
Speaker 5: that's okay. When it's a no that doesn't come with backlash,
Speaker 5: that's fine. Everyone does this whole like women are scared
Speaker 5: of no things. Darn right we are. And there's a
Speaker 5: reason why, which which is that for us, it historically
Speaker 5: hasn't just been a no. It's been a no with
Speaker 5: other repercussions. And so in this world we canna let
Speaker 5: it just be another fact of our day.
Speaker 3: You know, you know what else, facts of the day
Speaker 3: is a fact of my day.
Speaker 4: We don't have to be worried about it.
Speaker 1: I don't like it.
Speaker 6: The bill of the week, that's right, It's time for
Speaker 6: the best minute of your entire week. Maybe a baby
Speaker 6: was born and his name is Williams. Maybe you've paid
Speaker 6: off your mortgage, maybe your car died, and you're happy
Speaker 6: to not have to pay that bill anymore. That bills
Speaker 6: Buffalo bills, Bill Clion, this is the bill of the.
Speaker 1: Week, Catherine. Every week we invite our listeners and our
Speaker 1: guests to share with us their esteemed bill of the week,
Speaker 1: and we would love to hear yours today.
Speaker 5: Mine's very embarrassing. I was delighted to pay a bill
Speaker 5: for a tree branch removal because I have been going
Speaker 5: down the rabbit hole on your past podcast, and it
Speaker 5: made me think about the things that I was paying
Speaker 5: for that I felt like I might be paying too
Speaker 5: much for. And it turns out I was paying too
Speaker 5: much for homeowner's insurance. I was paying two times as
Speaker 5: much as I needed to because of this one tree branch.
Speaker 5: So once I get the tree branch down, I qualify
Speaker 5: for a different package that's the same coverage but half
Speaker 5: the price. So wow, I'm excited to pay for that
Speaker 5: tree branch because it's gonna save me a lot of money.
Speaker 1: And how did you find out it was the tree
Speaker 1: branch that was increasing your rate so highly?
Speaker 5: So I now it's gonna get Now I'm getting very nerty. Okay.
Speaker 5: So I went into the bills that I was and
Speaker 5: I sorted them for the most expensive, and I just
Speaker 5: started calling and I started the most expensive and made
Speaker 5: my way down the list. And when I called the
Speaker 5: most expensive, she was like, oh gosh, this is very expensive.
Speaker 5: This was my insurance person, like the insurance carrier. And
Speaker 5: I was like, yeah, can you tell me why? And
Speaker 5: she goes, oh, well, the drone report from three years
Speaker 5: ago shows that you have overhanging structure. And I was like,
Speaker 5: I don't even don't report. I know this is so
Speaker 5: I know. And so she sent me a picture of
Speaker 5: the drone report and it looks like there is a
Speaker 5: tree growing out of the middle of my house, like
Speaker 5: you can barely see the house, whereas in real life
Speaker 5: the tree is very high up. It just has a
Speaker 5: lot of leaves, but it's not a particularly heavy thing,
Speaker 5: and so we could get it removed without damaging the
Speaker 5: tree relatively and expensively because it was mostly apparently it's
Speaker 5: a tertiary branch. I've learned a lot about trees.
Speaker 3: Yes, you've become a barbarous and an insurance negotiator.
Speaker 4: And adjuster and wow so much so thanks for me
Speaker 4: for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of all wrapped up in a
Speaker 3: tip for us as well, just to be able to
Speaker 3: look into I mean, even just call your insurance provider.
Speaker 3: What are the factors playing into this pricing? Are there
Speaker 3: things that I could do to lower this rate?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 3: You could find out there's been drone footage to take
Speaker 3: it up your place.
Speaker 5: Apparently we were also paying, if you want to get
Speaker 5: real nerdy, we were also paying hundreds a couple hundred
Speaker 5: dollars a year in unensured rider motorist something, which when
Speaker 5: I asked, I was like, what is that? And she's like,
Speaker 5: it's in case someone's in your car that's not in
Speaker 5: your family and you get an accident and that person
Speaker 5: is uninsured and the person you get an accent with
Speaker 5: is uninsured. I was like, well, that feels like a
Speaker 5: lot of bands, too.
Speaker 1: Many bands, and no.
Speaker 4: One's said in my car. That's what I've decided. I'm
Speaker 4: not just me. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Sound like something you need in Florida a car. Actual,
Speaker 1: Now that I'm saying it out loud, I'm like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we hope that that's a Florida Insurance.
Speaker 3: If you all listening have a bill that you want
Speaker 3: to share, if it's about lowering a bill, if it's
Speaker 3: about becoming some sort of expert in biology or any
Speaker 3: other of the sciences, or you're just Bill hanging out
Speaker 3: and you want to tell us what life is like.
Speaker 4: We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 3: Frugal Friends podcast dot com, slash Bill and now it's
Speaker 3: time for.
Speaker 1: All Right, now we will share all the same question.
Speaker 1: We will answer what's your most successful negotiation? And maybe
Speaker 1: it's traditional, maybe it's a little non traditional. I don't know, Catherine,
Speaker 1: what would you deem is your most successful negotiation?
Speaker 5: I negotiated eighteen percent off my beloved home. I love
Speaker 5: my house. I love love my house, and that was
Speaker 5: a nice chunky savings that made it possible for us
Speaker 5: to live here.
Speaker 4: Wow, that's it.
Speaker 1: Now you got me thinking of all the things that
Speaker 1: I've negotiated that I love.
Speaker 4: Right, that's a.
Speaker 5: Good feeling where you're like, I can't have that. Oh wait,
Speaker 5: if I think creatively, I can.
Speaker 1: Yes, creatively, Like that's I think that's the key word,
Speaker 1: is think creatively.
Speaker 3: You've probably negotiated on so much too. I mean goodness,
Speaker 3: it's what you're an expert on. But when you can
Speaker 3: negotiate something of such high value that eighteen percent is
Speaker 3: a massive amount of money, it sounds like, not only
Speaker 3: do you love your house, but you have freed yourself
Speaker 3: up in a lot of ways financially to do more
Speaker 3: things that.
Speaker 5: You one was a good lesson that we don't all
Speaker 5: value the same things, right. So for the people that
Speaker 5: were leaving, money was important, but actually the most important
Speaker 5: thing for them was flexibility because they were balancing buying
Speaker 5: another home and two kids in school and when school ended,
Speaker 5: and when they could move, and when their elderly parents
Speaker 5: were okay like all of these things. And so us
Speaker 5: saying hey, we'll close anytime in a six month window,
Speaker 5: we'll move anytime six months after that, you tell us,
Speaker 5: was worth a lot of money to them, which was
Speaker 5: great because we had a lot more time than we
Speaker 5: had money.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh that I love that.
Speaker 1: Ye I was going to ask what got that eighteen percent?
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's amazing, Jill.
Speaker 4: What about for you?
Speaker 5: Jen?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 1: Oh, how you go?
Speaker 4: First?
Speaker 3: We do negotiate on a lot of things over here,
Speaker 3: I would say our most recent I'll go I'll go
Speaker 3: less high monetary impact to We ran into a situation
Speaker 3: on vacation recently where our room was not what we
Speaker 3: expected it to be, and it did cost me a
Speaker 3: ton of time to try and go back and forth
Speaker 3: with the third party that we booked through and the
Speaker 3: people on site at the resort themselves.
Speaker 4: But by the end of it.
Speaker 3: We walked away with one of the best rooms with
Speaker 3: a swim up pool plus two hundred dollars travel credit.
Speaker 4: Because I wouldn't quit. I felt more like a fight
Speaker 4: than a negotiation, but it is what happened.
Speaker 3: I remain calm, cool and collected the whole time. I'm learning,
Speaker 3: I'm learning to be relational. I was collaborative in the
Speaker 3: sense that I did not leave them. They wanted me
Speaker 3: to go elsewhere on the property to be making my
Speaker 3: phone calls, and I was like, no, it's going to
Speaker 3: happen right here. It should all happen right in front
Speaker 3: of you, and this will also be your problem, so
Speaker 3: we'll have to collaboratively find the solution because now it's.
Speaker 4: Our Catherine, but it is a problem.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 4: I will work on the problem too, but so will you?
Speaker 1: All right, John, Okay, so I have so many instances.
Speaker 1: So like I'm now thinking our first home purchase, we
Speaker 1: had to we literally had like three weeks to get
Speaker 1: the down payment, and we just didn't have the money.
Speaker 1: So we negotiated that they'll pay the closing costs and
Speaker 1: will just increase the amount that we pay for the
Speaker 1: house by five thousand, so that you know we're paying
Speaker 1: for it, but like to the mortgage company, you know.
Speaker 1: So that was something that allowed us to get our
Speaker 1: first home, or in that home was a dream. In
Speaker 1: my last like nine to five job, I negotiated for
Speaker 1: an increased base pay, but I would also negotiate. I
Speaker 1: would ask for conference, Like there was a conference I
Speaker 1: was already going to, was already paying my way, but
Speaker 1: there was a there was a conference on the front
Speaker 1: end of it. So I had them pay for me
Speaker 1: to go to that extra conference. And it was easy, yes,
Speaker 1: because it's very aligned with you know, helping that website's
Speaker 1: like content, and I would already be there.
Speaker 3: Oh, Jen, what are we saying? We played good cop
Speaker 3: bad cop all the time. To your point, Catherine about
Speaker 3: having a board of advisors, that I would say is
Speaker 3: the benefit of having a business partner. And the books
Speaker 3: deal we got an incredible book deal because we can
Speaker 3: be just stone faced and ask for more and more
Speaker 3: and more. But now we've blocked ourselves into corner by
Speaker 3: what youlovebook dot com because we negotiated such a good
Speaker 3: deal that now we got to sell this book.
Speaker 4: It's another us it's too high.
Speaker 1: But I was actually I thought you would bring up
Speaker 1: our very last negotiation that we're negotiating with a advertiser
Speaker 1: like advertising network. We've done this twice for a higher
Speaker 1: percentage of the REV share, so there's a standard revshare,
Speaker 1: and we just asked for a little bit bigger piece
Speaker 1: of the pie and both times they said yes, we're
Speaker 1: two for two.
Speaker 5: Well, and that's intually one because the bigger you make
Speaker 5: the pie, the better is for both of you, even
Speaker 5: if you're getting a little bit more of it.
Speaker 1: And that was our thing. It's like, we're we put
Speaker 1: in the work to grow, so give us a little
Speaker 1: more so that we don't have to do other things
Speaker 1: to make money and we can focus on this and
Speaker 1: we both win.
Speaker 5: How that was the perfect relational ask.
Speaker 4: Wow, we're learning, we encover.
Speaker 3: We'll want to learn more from you because you've got
Speaker 3: so many great tips.
Speaker 4: Tell us where they can find you.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for this has just been such
Speaker 5: obligement to come on and talk to you. For anyone
Speaker 5: who you know, if you want to get that resource
Speaker 5: that seventy six things we were talking about, We've made
Speaker 5: that free to everyone, so you can just go to
Speaker 5: seventy six things dot com and you can download the
Speaker 5: list there and then I make you know, most of
Speaker 5: the money to do this research is through speaking, so
Speaker 5: if you're part of a women's organization who needs a speaker,
Speaker 5: you know, negotiating is one thing that we do, networkings another.
Speaker 5: Please keep me in mind it really helps us get
Speaker 5: this research to more women by being able to be
Speaker 5: part of those conversations.
Speaker 4: Awesome, Thanks so much Catherine for being here.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I very much look forward to looking at that list
Speaker 1: of seventy five things to negotiate. Even though I can't
Speaker 1: negotiate anything else from Jill for our job, I really
Speaker 1: hope that maybe I can take this and in the future,
Speaker 1: if the book does well, Jill will let me negotiate
Speaker 1: for maybe a few more benefits in the company.
Speaker 3: Yeah wow, Okay, I didn't realize that we needed these
Speaker 3: skill sets with one another. Although yeah, no, that is true.
Speaker 3: We have negotiated with one another. I don't know how
Speaker 3: you could be in business for this long and not
Speaker 3: get to that point. But I like it best when
Speaker 3: you and I get to combine forces and negotiate with
Speaker 3: outside entities.
Speaker 4: That's very fun for me. When we get to.
Speaker 3: Sometimes be good cop bad cop.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's a great thing about having a businsiness partner
Speaker 1: is playing good bad cop. But I love Catherine's idea
Speaker 1: having a board of advisors, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1: Nobody needs to know who your board of advisors is.
Speaker 1: That is so official sounding, sounds so good. It doesn't
Speaker 1: like the scaries like league like lawyers do. I will
Speaker 1: be taking that one for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean, we don't advocate for lying. Definitely have people
Speaker 3: in mind who are your board of advisors? But yeah,
Speaker 3: that can buy you some time I got to talk
Speaker 3: to It helps me to say I have to talk
Speaker 3: to my business partner about that, or I got to
Speaker 3: talk to my spouse, and just more time to even
Speaker 3: think through what do I want here?
Speaker 4: How do I want to leverage it?
Speaker 3: Anyways, thanks everyone for listening. We just love hanging out
Speaker 3: with you, and we also love reading your very kind reviews,
Speaker 3: like this one from Jenna D thirteen titled the Best
Speaker 3: It Is five stars.
Speaker 4: You knew that already.
Speaker 3: I love listening to Jen and Jill and Jen. Oh wow,
Speaker 3: she got you first. I know. I love listening to
Speaker 3: Jill and Jen. I also live in Florida and my
Speaker 3: name is Jenna, so I feel like I fit right in. Yes,
Speaker 3: you do. They make seeing frugal sounds so doable and
Speaker 3: even fun.
Speaker 4: That's the goal.
Speaker 3: When I think I know all the budgeting tips, I
Speaker 3: learn new ones. My husband and I have made so
Speaker 3: many changes because of the tips I've learned from listening
Speaker 3: to this podcast, including switching our savings account to a
Speaker 3: high yield savings account, starting a roth Ira. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much, guys.
Speaker 4: Ps.
Speaker 3: I listen on Spotify, but I helnloaded Apple Podcasts to
Speaker 3: write this review. Happy early one thousand, meaning one thousand reviews,
Speaker 3: because that was a goal of ours a couple months ago.
Speaker 1: Yes, Jenna, thank you. You can also leave reviews on
Speaker 1: Spotify's that's two. But I mean I did really want
Speaker 1: to get to a thousand on Apple podcasts, and you
Speaker 1: all pulled through. You pulled up and pulled through, So
Speaker 1: I thank you, Thank you for listening thank you for
Speaker 1: leaving a review. And if you haven't left a review,
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, we would love to hear
Speaker 1: what you think about the show. If it's positive. If
Speaker 1: it's not nice, uh, then this show is called how
Speaker 1: to Money. But I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4: We love Joel and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, leave nice things on there. Yeah, but take a
Speaker 1: minute to leave rating, a nice rating and review on
Speaker 1: our show and their show. It helps potential new listeners
Speaker 1: know what the show is all about.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: Grugal Friends is produced by Eric.
Speaker 3: Sirianni Okay Jen update for you on my Florida, Florida life.
Speaker 1: So you're Florida life. Yeah, right, I killed a cockroach
Speaker 1: with my book this morning.
Speaker 3: I killed a cockroach last night with a shoe. That's
Speaker 3: that's just that's just normal living. This is this is
Speaker 3: this is this is next level. You've heard about the chickens, right,
Speaker 3: It's about the chickens. And we figured out that we
Speaker 3: believe that our neighbors own them because the one day
Speaker 3: I went outside trying to figure out where are these
Speaker 3: chickens going?
Speaker 4: Who owns these?
Speaker 3: And they were in our chicken who were in our
Speaker 3: neighbor's yard like fenced in like there they are, didn't
Speaker 3: have to walk far. Uh, that's that's who owns them. Well,
Speaker 3: we were just away for the weekend and came back
Speaker 3: and the mulch in our front y'alld like around our
Speaker 3: garden beds up against the house was just strewn about
Speaker 3: like a like a big windstorm kind of came through
Speaker 3: and pushed all of the stuff up onto the sidewalk.
Speaker 3: Either that or some sort of medium sized animal. I
Speaker 3: wasn't quite sure. Eric looked back on the security cameras
Speaker 3: and it was the chickens. I was thinking maybe it
Speaker 3: was coyote or something, or fox or who knows what.
Speaker 1: So this was on the side of your fence, it's right, yeah,
Speaker 1: not in our fence the yard.
Speaker 3: It was just in our front yard because we haven't.
Speaker 1: Because chickens can jump over fence.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, we saw it in their backyard. So we
Speaker 3: were just assuming, Okay, it's theirs. They must be bringing
Speaker 3: the chickens into the yard at night. That's how they're
Speaker 3: surviving through the night. I don't know, but they're just
Speaker 3: roaming and they're coming over to our property and digging.
Speaker 3: These little are just digging, throwing avaches, and now every
Speaker 3: single day they've been coming over and digging in the mulch,
Speaker 3: and Eric and I don't know what to do about it.
Speaker 3: Like part of it's like, Okay, you're probably eating the
Speaker 3: cockroaches and mosquitos, so that's probably good, but also you're
Speaker 3: making a mess. And we had put down landscaping carpet
Speaker 3: before we put down the mulch, and has really helped
Speaker 3: with weeds and stuff. But now they're digging down into
Speaker 3: the carpet level. So now we're just getting like carpet
Speaker 3: strewn about. And so Eric took a picture of it
Speaker 3: and sent it to the neighbor, asking it are these
Speaker 3: your chickens, just to kind of be like, okay, maybe
Speaker 3: your chicken should get back into your yard, but also
Speaker 3: so that you know that they're in our yard.
Speaker 4: And they responded no.
Speaker 3: So we don't know whose chickens these are, but they
Speaker 3: are you can have it on our house. So now
Speaker 3: I have this dilemma of Okay, do I keep hunting
Speaker 3: and assuming that it's somebody else is on our road,
Speaker 3: but that just I don't think it is, because every
Speaker 3: morning I hear it kaka do doodling outside of my window.
Speaker 3: Which yeah, there's no other houses other than the person
Speaker 3: that we texted, or do I say, you know what,
Speaker 3: these are mine now then and I just create a
Speaker 3: coop in the backyard and at least get to enjoy
Speaker 3: the eggs. But there's also a research so I don't know.
Speaker 4: That's scary.
Speaker 1: Wow, I I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know how to help you. It's a Florida dilemma.
Speaker 1: It is a Florida dilemma.
Speaker 3: Some people have guests that maybe people, because we do
Speaker 3: live like right on a nature preserve, that maybe locals
Speaker 3: did have it they were told that they can't have
Speaker 3: them and just came and dropped them off in the park,
Speaker 3: which could be possible.
Speaker 4: M yeah, mmm, I guess I put.
Speaker 3: At all like animal control. But but what if it
Speaker 3: is somebody's chickens, or what if the neighbor's lying to us?
Speaker 3: What if what if they are the neighbors chickens but
Speaker 3: they didn't want us to get mad about it, so
Speaker 3: they said no.
Speaker 1: They would not lie to you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, if anybody has like chicken rightes, uh knowledge, let
Speaker 1: us know.
Speaker 3: They are surviving if there if they are indeed wild chickens,
Speaker 3: their survival skills are insane because we do chickens and
Speaker 3: foxes chicken.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess these chickens in particular might
Speaker 1: be a little more insane, but gosh, on the level
Speaker 1: of an in sanity goes dolphins chickens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, chickens are not nearly as smart as dolphins.
Speaker 1: Though, No, but they are way more savage.
Speaker 4: So true.