1 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Gaffney, the program 2 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: that's a kind of an owner's manual for protecting the 3 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: country we love against all enemies foreign and domestic, to 4 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: the glory of God and his kingdom. We are very 5 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: privileged to be able to talk about a breaking news 6 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: story with men who is probably well as insightful, certainly 7 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: as clear, and as courageous as anybody in our country 8 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: in discussing it. And that is the threat we are 9 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: both here in the United States and in the Middle 10 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: East from jihadist enemies who seek the destruction first because 11 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: it's at hand of Israel, and secondarily as soon as 12 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: they can here in this country as well. 13 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: His name is Josh Hammer. 14 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 1: He's a senior editor at large for Newsweek and the 15 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: author of an important new book about Israel that I 16 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: am going to ask him to. 17 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 2: Remind me of the title again. 18 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: We're anxious to take stock of, specifically a new front 19 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: that has just been opened up, unsurprisingly by virulent anti 20 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: Israel elements in the United Nations to try to further 21 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: discredit Israel, further incentivize people to want to punish the 22 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: Jewish state by characterizing what she is doing in her 23 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: self defense in Gaza as quote genocide. Josh is an attorney, 24 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: among other things. He knows a lot about international and 25 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: other law, and we're anxious to pick his brains about 26 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: where the truth lies on all of this and the 27 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: implications of such a finding by a UN so called 28 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: independent commission. Josh, welcome back to Securing America. It's great 29 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: to have you, my. 30 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: Friend, Frank. I appreciate it's going to be here. 31 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: Remind me the title. 32 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 4: Of the book, Israel and Civilization, the Fate of the 33 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 4: Jewish Nation and the Destiny of the West. 34 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 2: There we go. How timely is that? 35 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: So? Describe for us, if you would, the thesis of 36 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: this UN commission in finding that. 37 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 2: Three leaders of Israel, including. 38 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: Prime Minister Benjamin Natanyahu, have engaged in the deliberate practice 39 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: of genocide against the people of Gaza. 40 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: Well, that's essentially what it is. 41 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 4: I mean the term genocide, which really takes on new 42 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 4: importance and heft in international law discourse following World War Two, 43 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 4: in particular when it comes to Geneva and various other 44 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 4: international treaties and tribunals like that. Genocide does have not 45 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 4: just an empirical discernible reality. When it comes to people's 46 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 4: populations that are being killed, it also has the element 47 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 4: of intent. You know, not to get all loyally here, 48 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 4: but anytime there was kind of a normal crime that 49 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 4: happens on a day to day streets of America, whether 50 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 4: you know, whether it is a homicide or another kind 51 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 4: of violent crime like a rape, or even even a 52 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 4: property crime, roberty, larcity, whatever, there are two elements here. 53 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 4: There is the intention and then there is the actual 54 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: act itself. This, for instance, is how when it comes 55 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 4: to homicide, how we can differentiate between things like first 56 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 4: degree murder, second degree manslaughter, and so forth. So when 57 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 4: it comes to go into the international realm with genocide, 58 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 4: the very first thing to know is that genocide in 59 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 4: order to actually be genocide under the internationally except the 60 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 4: definition of genocide, there is an intent, a specific intent 61 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: on behalf of the people, the group of a nation 62 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 4: whoever is being cused of committing this most monstrous of atrocities, 63 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 4: to actually eradicates, to wipe out a population simply because 64 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 4: that population sits fits a certain criteria, whether it is 65 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 4: an ethnic criteria, a racial criteria, religious, or so forth. 66 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 3: There Frank I. 67 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 4: Don't think this audience needs to necessarily hear this from me, 68 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 4: how ludicrous this is on its face when applied to 69 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 4: the current conflict. But I guess I'll just explain why 70 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 4: is so ludacris on his face when it comes to 71 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 4: the current conflict there. Look, first of all, I mean 72 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 4: not to I will dumb things down, perhaps as low 73 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 4: and as dumb as possible. 74 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: Here Israel is a nuclear armed country. Okay. 75 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 4: If they wanted to drop a nuclear bomb to liquidate 76 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 4: Gaza on October eighth, twenty twenty three, the day after 77 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: the Pegram, they easily could have done that. A country 78 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 4: that is committing genocide would not be having almost a 79 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 4: thousand of its young men sacrifice and the god forsaken 80 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 4: cesspool and hellhole that is Gaza there to try to 81 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 4: appease various unappeasable international norms. When it comes to trying 82 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 4: to predict quote unquote civilian life at all costs, a 83 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 4: country that's committing genocide would not achieve, as is the 84 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 4: US Military Academy West Point professor John Spencer has calculated, 85 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 4: would not achieve the most humane civilian to combatant death 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 4: ratio of about one to one point five in literally 87 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 4: the entire history of recorded urban warfare, a country committing 88 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 4: genocide would not literally drop leaflets from the plane saying 89 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: get out, we are about to make this building go blow. 90 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 4: I mean, there's just so many things that prove over 91 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 4: and over and over again that Israel does not have 92 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 4: the subjective intention to exterminate all of the of the 93 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 4: Gazen Arab population. And I just I guess one final thing, 94 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 4: I'll say, Frank, the notion that Israel has genocidal proclivities 95 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 4: or urges to eliminate all Arabs in general, if you 96 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 4: want to kind of extrapolate beyond simply the Gaza stript. 97 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,799 Speaker 3: Is obviously preposterous and ludicrous. 98 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 4: Roughly twenty percent, maybe even twenty five percent, now twenty 99 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 4: twenty percent of Israel self is Arab, and as you know, 100 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 4: Arabs have achieved pretty high ranks in Israeli society when 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 4: it comes to the kanesse, the legislature, when it comes 102 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 4: to the courts, when it comes to academia, the medical profession, 103 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 4: the legal profession, on and on we go there. So 104 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 4: there's obviously no general ethnic intent on the part of 105 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 4: the government to eradicate all Arabs there and even when 106 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 4: it comes to Gaza, it's ludicrous on his face. Israel 107 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 4: has a very simple task at hand, which is to 108 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 4: eliminate Hamas as a military and political installation, Frank, and 109 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 4: that is all they're focused on right now, in addition, 110 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 4: of course, to retrieving the hostages and gain them home 111 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 4: safely in a. 112 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: Line of course, and Josha, I've done a commentary in 113 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: the course of the day, and thesis is basically, if 114 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: there is genocide taking place in Hummas, stam if you will, 115 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: it is at the hands of Hammas. It is the 116 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: direct result of first of all, their refusal to surrender, 117 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: which has brought incalculable damage, of course to their population, but. 118 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: They've also done a lot of damage to the population itself. 119 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about this whole practice 120 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: of human shields as well as actually starving their own 121 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 1: people and on some occasions shooting them if they seek relief. 122 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, so, Look a few things I think that 123 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 4: are worth noting here. So let's start with October seventh. 124 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: Okay. 125 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 4: You know, people say they clamor for a ceasefire, they 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: clamor for a cessation of hostilities, but has been often 127 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 4: noted there was a ceasefire in Gaza on October sixth 128 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 4: to that in twenty three and every single death, I 129 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 4: would argue, every literally, every single death to a tee 130 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 4: that has happened in Gaza since October seventh is solely 131 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 4: and exclusively attributable to Hamas, even if even if the 132 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 4: IDF misfired in situation which obviously happens is the fog 133 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 4: of war, no military is. 134 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: It's literally perfect. 135 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 4: Every single death is ultimately attributed to the fact that 136 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 4: they are going into Gaza in the first place, because 137 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 4: October seventh happens. So Hamas is solely and exclusively morally 138 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 4: culpable for every single death in Gaza since October seventh. 139 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 4: More to the point, and getting to your question, Yeah, 140 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 4: Hamas is very well established. They have been using human 141 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: shields essentially since they took over the Gaza strip back 142 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 4: in two thousand and seven. They are very careful to 143 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 4: embed humans civilians in the schools and the mosques where 144 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 4: there are media outlets and journalism and journalists there. They 145 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 4: do this over and over and over again because frank 146 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 4: for Hamas, dead civilians are not something to be bemoaned, 147 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 4: they are actually something to be waived to the international 148 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 4: reader to try to bamboozle and do people into hating Jews. 149 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 3: More than they already do. 150 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 4: So if anyone is actually committing genocide in Gaza is 151 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 4: frankly Hamas against their own people, not the. 152 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: State of Israel. Concurrent, it's a feature, not a bug, 153 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: as it were, of their whole well method of war 154 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: and the practice that is seemingly almost completely unremarked by 155 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: these globalists at the United Nations, with their anti Israel 156 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: agenda being as you've documented in your book, Israel and Civilization, 157 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: Josh Hammer, it's epidemic there, and it's the product. The 158 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: product that we've been discussing here. This idea that Israel's 159 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: engaged in genocide is just one manifestation of it. Of course, 160 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: Josh may have to take a short break. We'll be 161 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: right back with much more with the editor at large, 162 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: Senior editor at large of Newsweek, Josh Hammer. 163 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 2: Two. 164 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: We're talking with him about well, the war for the 165 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: free world as I call it, that is underway, the 166 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: object of which on the part of assorted enemies who 167 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: are making common cause with one another. As we'll talk 168 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: about more in a few minutes. With our friend Robert 169 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: Spencer is nothing short of the destruction of the Judeo 170 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: Christian civilized world. Josh, one of the people who stood 171 00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: with great courage against that threat from communists and jihadis alike, 172 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: was a mutual friend of ours late as it is 173 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: now Unfortunately, Charlie Kirk. I know you've worked with him 174 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: for years and admired him, as I think did everybody 175 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: who knew him. 176 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,839 Speaker 2: Really talk a little bit about what Charlie was. 177 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: Saying and standing for in this moment, and the implications 178 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: of his silencing at the hands of well has yet 179 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: to be determined. 180 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 2: Perhaps a single shooter, perhaps others. 181 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, Frank, it's an incalculable loss. It is a truly 182 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 4: devastating loss for the forces of civilizational sanity, as I 183 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 4: call it, against the forces of civilizational arson. And Charlie 184 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 4: was a warrior for the heart and soul of the 185 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 4: United States of America. He was also a warrior, as 186 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 4: you correctly put it, for the heart and soul of 187 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 4: the Jao Christian West. He was a champion of the 188 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 4: Jewish Christian Alliance. There are a lot of people now 189 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 4: trying to retcon to historically revise his legacy. There are 190 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: some provocateurs that are trying to posthumously convert him, shall 191 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 4: we say, in a very nefarious direction. 192 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: It's total nonsense. 193 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 4: Over the past year, year and a half of his 194 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 4: tragically truncated life, I was a near daily communication with Charlie. 195 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 4: We often spoke about civilizational stakes. He oftentimes phrased it 196 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 4: just as you and I have, just as my book does, 197 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: as a civilizational battle between the biblical inheritance and the 198 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 4: forces of barbarism, Sharia, supremacism, Islamism, and so forth. In fact, 199 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 4: less than twenty four hours, less than twenty four hours 200 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 4: before he passed away, I was on a zoom call 201 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 4: with Charlie and our mutual friend Rabbi Paysak Wliki and 202 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 4: a couple others, and Rabbi Paysack and I were basically 203 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 4: just answering a lot of his questions because he anticipated 204 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: a lot of anti Israel questions on this tour. We 205 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: were kind of helping him think through how to respond 206 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 4: in real time to these kafia clad radical university, you know, 207 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 4: college students. So the notion that Charlie was was going 208 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 4: in a bad direction, that's not the Charlie Kirk that 209 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,080 Speaker 4: I saw the Charlie Kurth that I saw was an 210 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 4: amazing American patriot, a principal devout Christian, an amazing father, 211 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: and an amazing husband to his to his widow Erica, 212 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 4: and just a five star general, a titan, a real 213 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 4: five star general. Again in our civilizational class. It is 214 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 4: a massive, massive void, and we all we can do, 215 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 4: Frank is do our best in our individual capacities to 216 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,719 Speaker 4: try to carry on that tourch because it's quite a 217 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 4: legacy that he has left in his only thirty one 218 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 4: years on this on this earth. 219 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 2: Amen, Thank you. 220 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: That was as well articulated as I think anybody has, 221 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: with pussible exception of Erica Kirk herself, who delivered one 222 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: of the most magnificent eulogies I've ever heard. 223 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 2: As I think you would agree, let me ask you 224 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: you mentioned Rabbi Pessiclelicki. 225 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: He's a frequent contributor to this program. I'm proud to say, 226 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: in fact, we spoke to him a couple of days ago, 227 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: and I was with him last night in a program 228 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: that Robert Spencer. He noted here in Dallas, what's going 229 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: on with the attacks on. 230 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: The Rabbi? 231 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: As I understand it primarily for participating in that conversation 232 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: and perhaps those that preceded it with. 233 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: Charlie, I think he's being. 234 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: Slandered as a basade handler for this great American What 235 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,119 Speaker 1: do you say in response to such defamations? 236 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 4: You know, it's obviously Luda, Chris Frank. A lot of 237 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 4: this goes back, actually a little bit further. I believe 238 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 4: it was in July, of memories. There as mid to 239 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 4: late July, Rabbi Willicki went on the Charlie Kirk Show 240 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 4: to debunk the allegations of so called famine in God, 241 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 4: It's pretty It was a pretty reasonably time segment, me 242 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 4: a fifteen minute segment there and Charlie, as he came 243 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 4: to do in the last year or two, as the 244 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 4: anti israelisteria has really gained a fever pitch. He got 245 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 4: a lot of negative pushbacks simply for having the temerity 246 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 4: to have on a politically conservative rabbi to discuss this issue. 247 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 4: But Rabbi Wlicky has always handled this sort of thing 248 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 4: with a plum. You know, he's not the kind of 249 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 4: guy who is you know, is gonna second guess what 250 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 4: he thinks or second guess his instincts or his judgments, 251 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: or his character or his core belief simply because of 252 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 4: the backlash from the mob. And then a lot of 253 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: these cries have accelerated in the aftermath. As you said, 254 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 4: of reporting from both the New York Posts and a 255 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 4: couple other outlets. I saw that we had the zoom 256 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: call the night before. But I mean, I mean, what 257 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 4: is there to say. I mean, people are just so dumb, Frank. 258 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 4: I mean, the notion that you can be impeached because 259 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 4: of what you say, based on based on what based 260 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 4: on the fact that you're Jewish, based on the fact 261 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 4: that you wear a qipole like I do, based the 262 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 4: fact that in Rabbi Willicky's case, he lives in Israel, 263 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 4: I live here in Florida, for what it's worth. I mean, 264 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 4: it's just so utterly preposterous on his face there. I mean, 265 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 4: try to combat someone when it comes to the substance 266 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: and content of what he is saying. Don't try to 267 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 4: impeach him based on arbitrary characteristics elsewhere. Charlie, to his 268 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 4: great credit, never sought to do that himself, which is 269 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: why he was counseling and seeking advice from what he 270 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 4: referred to as his brain trust on this issue, which 271 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 4: was folks like Rabbi Wilicky, myself and a couple others 272 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 4: right up until the final hours. 273 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I honestly can't imagine a better group of people 274 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: to be bouncing ideas off of. And I thank you 275 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: for taking the time and the considerable creative effort that 276 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: it would take to support a guy like Charlie who's 277 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: free range mind, and whose voracious appetite for ideas, and 278 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: whose need to be informed to the maximum degree possible 279 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: for these interactions, many of which, folks, by the way, 280 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: on these college campus experiences in particular, which it has 281 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: proved me wrong. 282 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 2: We're all about. 283 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: The controversies surrounding this war that Israel has had thrust 284 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: upon it on October seventh, twenty twenty three. Let me 285 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: ask you, in closing one last question, Josh, you have 286 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: an appreciation of the magnitude of the stakes in these 287 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: well debates at best, at worst, these incipient, quite possibly 288 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:48,239 Speaker 1: now increasingly actual, violent interactions with people who adhere to 289 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: one or the other of these ideologies inside this country 290 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: as well as elsewhere. Could you just speak to the 291 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: proposition we had a webinar, really or full one on 292 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: the series we call. 293 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 2: The Committee on the President Danger of China's Weekly. 294 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: Unrestricted Warfare program, that Jijingping, the dictator of Communist China, 295 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: may have his ultimate plan for taking down this country, 296 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: fomenting and perhaps even instigating civil war two point zero. 297 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: Your thoughts are, and if it's of concern to you, 298 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: what should we be doing about it? 299 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 4: Frank everything about China concerns me. I am very much 300 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 4: a China first person, which, by the way, is actually 301 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 4: part of my argument for Israel. By the way, it's 302 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 4: actually part of the Trump administration's case for Israel. Is 303 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 4: that when you in bold in Israel, when you get 304 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 4: Abraham Accord's style diplomacy in the Middle East, there you 305 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 4: basically you will enable our allies to patrol that region 306 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 4: in a way that then allows America to focus on 307 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 4: its true civilizational throughout the Chinese Communist Party. So I've 308 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: been saying for I've been saying for a long time, 309 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 4: and the Chinese Communist parties in America's twenty first century 310 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 4: threat that is our functional equivalent of the Soviet Union 311 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 4: in the latter part of the twentieth century, and considerably 312 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 4: worse actually in many ways. You're totally right about that. Actually, 313 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 4: so yes, I am greatly concerned and in many ways 314 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 4: actually to kind of double down this analogy, you know, 315 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 4: trying to meddle in our domestic politics and try to 316 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 4: seed discord, to foment anks and try to kind of 317 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 4: rabble rouse and get people to try to commit potentially 318 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 4: violence against one another. That actually is itself an old 319 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 4: Communist tactic, an old Sovia tactic. There the Soviets did 320 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 4: this all the time during the heyday of the nineteen sixties, 321 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 4: during the day Divide and conquered. 322 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: Josh, whare you are hard out of time? 323 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: I want you to come back soon for a further 324 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 1: conversation about this. 325 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 2: It's so important. 326 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: Josh Hammer, Senior editor at Large Newsweek, author of Israel 327 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: and Civilization. 328 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: Thank you for your time to thank you, right friend, 329 00:19:54,040 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 2: God bless you be right back. We're back, and I'm 330 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:18,360 Speaker 2: delighted to say so. 331 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: Is Robert Spencer one of the most prodigiously formidable public 332 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: intellectuals I have had the privilege of knowing and working with. Prodigious, 333 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: notably in his voluminous output some thirty two books published 334 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: today or in the process of being published as we speak. 335 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: Most of them dealing with topics of paramount importance to 336 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: the survival of Judeo Christian civilization, specifically from the threat 337 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: we face in the form of well Sharia, the Islamic 338 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: operating code as I think of it, that compels its 339 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: adherents to engage in jihad for the purposes of establishing 340 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: a caliphate, a global theocracy worldwide in its application over all, 341 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: not just Jews and Christians, of course, but everybody. 342 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: Robert is a very. 343 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: Important contributor to the policy debate, notably through his role 344 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 1: as director of gihat Watch. You can follow his work 345 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: there at ghatwatch dot org. Also, he is a columnist 346 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: and very important contributor to Front Page Magazine and PJ Media. 347 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: He is, in addition to all of that, a personal 348 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: friend of mine. I'm extremely proud of having him as 349 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: one of our senior fellows at our Institute for the 350 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: American Future, and always delighted to have him as a 351 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: contributor of this program. Robert, welcome back, my friend. 352 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 2: It's great to talk with you. Always good to talk 353 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 2: to you. Frank, thank you. 354 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: We had the privilege of being present last night for 355 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: a very important keynote address. 356 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 2: You made to the American Jewish Conservatives. 357 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: In Dallas, Texas, and I wanted very much for you 358 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: to share with our audience your insights on the question 359 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: of the ambitions of these Jihadis and whether they can 360 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 1: be talked out of it by various ceasefires or peace 361 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: talks or other parlays. 362 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 5: Your thoughts, sir, well Frank, The Quran is very clear 363 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 5: that you don't lay down your arms when you have 364 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 5: the upper hand, and so that I think we should 365 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 5: understand as a guiding principle of the jihad and realize 366 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 5: that what that means means is that these struggles are 367 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 5: never going to end. While the West is exactly doing 368 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 5: exactly what it's doing now in giving reprieves and trying 369 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 5: to make peace and so on, that only emboldens the 370 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 5: Jihatis because they see it as an admission of weakness 371 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 5: and a sign that they should not stop fighting now 372 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 5: but keep pressing forward to final victory. 373 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: And as sign understand it, if they see an enemy 374 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: who is powerful behaving in a conciliatory fashion, let alone 375 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: making very significant concessions, not only is that an object 376 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: of contempt, but it actually emboldens them to become even 377 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: more insistent on achieving a final victory. 378 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: Is that correct? 379 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 5: Absolutely? You see, the idea is that the concessions themselves 380 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 5: represent a readiness on the part of the West to 381 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 5: lay down their arms, to surrender in effect, and so 382 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 5: they don't see this as, oh, this is a gesture 383 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 5: of goodwill, we have to reciprocate with a like gesture 384 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 5: of goodwill. They see it as these people realize that 385 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 5: they're losing, or think that they're losing, and so now 386 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 5: would be exactly the worst time to stop fighting. 387 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of hard to get your head around 388 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: this mindset, Robert. 389 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: But we've been told that the. 390 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: Well terrorists like Hamas for example, in Gaza, are persuaded 391 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 1: that if they simply survive, no matter how terribly they've 392 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: been punished and their you know, society has been disrupted 393 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: and they're you know, physical infrastructure taken down, they will 394 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: still be victorious if they in fact get well to 395 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: survive this onslaught from the Israelis. Would that be again correct, 396 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: both in the moment, but also in terms of the 397 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: history of jihad. 398 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 5: And Islam, very much so, Frank As a matter of fact, 399 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 5: Naim Kasim, who is now the leader of his ballah 400 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 5: after the death of A. Hassan Nosrala, he said that 401 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 5: straight out, not too long ago, survival. The fact that 402 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 5: we survived is a victory. And that's because the Jihad 403 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 5: never ends the war against unbelievers in order to subjugate 404 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 5: them under the hegemony of Islamic law. That is a 405 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 5: never ending struggle. It does not come to an end 406 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 5: with some peace treaty being signed and everything goes back 407 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 5: to normal. That's a Western construct. In the the Islamic 408 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 5: way of warfare, the only end to the jihad is 409 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 5: when the entire world is Islamized. And so Naim Kassam 410 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 5: is saying, they didn't destroy us, and so we will 411 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 5: fight them again later. And this is the mindset that 412 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 5: Western policymakers and negotiators and so called experts never seem 413 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 5: to grasp. 414 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: There's a term for this, if I'm not mistaken, hudnah. 415 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: What's the derivation of that term and practice? What does 416 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: it mean? 417 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 5: A hunah is a truce, and it's the exact same 418 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 5: thing that we're talking about from the other angle. If 419 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 5: the Islamic armies are losing, then they can conclude a 420 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 5: treaty with the infidels for a period of up to 421 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 5: ten years in order to gather their strength to fight 422 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 5: again more effectively. So it's not a peace treaty, it's 423 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 5: not the end of hostilities. It's only an opportunity for 424 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 5: the Muslim forces to gain some breathing room so that 425 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 5: they don't get defeated ultimately. And this is actually Islamic law, 426 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 5: based on the example of Muhammad from Islamic tradition. When 427 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 5: he concluded the Treaty of Hudaibiya with the Koraish the 428 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 5: Pagan Arabs, he was in a position of weakness, and 429 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 5: so he concluded a peace treaty with them, which he 430 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 5: almost immediately within a year or two, proceeded to break 431 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 5: when the Muslims were in a stronger military position. 432 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Robert, you're touching on a point that I think 433 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: is not adequately understood by most of us, and that 434 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: is the importance of Muhammad's personal experience and practice. There is, 435 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: of course, as you have documented in your critical biography 436 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: of him, some reason to believe that most of what 437 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: we're told about this man is apocryphal. But it doesn't 438 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: matter for the purposes of this particular point whether he 439 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: lived or whether he didn't live, whether he had revelations, 440 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: whether he didn't. There are hundreds of millions of people 441 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: around this planet who believe that he was the quote 442 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: perfect man unquote, and his every utterance and personal practice, 443 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: as I say, is to be emulated. 444 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 2: Is that right? 445 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: And one of the implications of that, given some of 446 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: those practices. 447 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's absolutely right, Frank. Chapter thirty three, verse twenty 448 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 5: one of the Qur'an makes it very clear, says Mohammad 449 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 5: is an excellent example for the believers, and that is 450 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 5: taken in Islamic theology and practice in an absolute sense. 451 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 5: If Muhammad did something, then Muslim should do it. It's just 452 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 5: that simple. So you may see, for example, quite a 453 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 5: few Muslim men with their beards dyed. Hannah died into 454 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 5: this sort of bizarre orange color, and that's because Muhammad 455 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 5: did it when he started going gray, and so it 456 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 5: must be right. And this is the kind of detail 457 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 5: in which this injunction that Muhammad is an excellent example 458 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 5: is followed. The reason why this matters to non Muslims 459 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,719 Speaker 5: is that Muhammad waged unprovoked war against the non Muslim 460 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 5: entities and subjugated them under his rule. And so that 461 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 5: is also an enduring part of Islam and an aspect 462 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 5: of what it means to follow Mohammed's example. 463 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, Among them revelations Robert are some that describe how 464 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 6: Muslims are supposed to interact with, particularly people of the book. 465 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: Jews and Christians, that are quite benign, quite peaceable, quite tolerant. 466 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: And yet there are the other passages that command the 467 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: faithful Muslim to engage in jihad and to destroy such unbelievers, 468 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: such pagans. How does Muhammad's personal example bear on which 469 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: of those pertains well. 470 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 5: There is, in Islamic tradition the understanding that Mohammad became 471 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 5: a prophet in the city of Mecca and then later, 472 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 5: after twelve years, moved to the city of Medina. This 473 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 5: is the hidra or emigration that mark's actually the official 474 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 5: beginning of Islam according to the Islamic calendar, when Mohammad 475 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 5: moved to Medina, because it was in Medina that he 476 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 5: became a political and military leader. So the Meccan passages 477 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 5: of the Qur'an, that is, the passages of the Qoran 478 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 5: that are considered to have been revealed while Muhammad was 479 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 5: in Mecca were revealed at a time when the Muslims 480 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 5: were a small and weak group without political or military power, 481 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 5: and so they preach tolerance because they wanted the tolerance 482 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 5: for themselves. Later, when Mohammad is in Medina and he 483 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 5: does have political and military power, the Qur'an passages that 484 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 5: are considered to come from that time are all about, 485 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 5: not all about. 486 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: But. 487 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 5: Preoccupied to a great degree with waging war and subjugating 488 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 5: the people of the book. 489 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: And providing a justification, theological justification for doing just that. 490 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 2: Robert, we have to take a short break. When we 491 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 2: come back, I want to talk with few about. 492 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: Sharia and its role in squaring this circle and commanding 493 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: certain behavior and what it means in practice in our time. 494 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: Be right back to throm Spencer's state tun Welcome back. 495 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: We're visiting with Robert Spencer, one of our great resources 496 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: on matters involving well not just Sharia and Islam and 497 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: jihad and all that flows from it, but also the 498 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: involvement that we are witnessing even as we speak of 499 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: communists who are making common cause with the Jihadis. And 500 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: we're going to talk more about that in a moment, 501 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: but before we do, Robert I wanted to pick up 502 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: on something that emanates from our previous conversation about Sharia 503 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: as the path, as the directive for behavior to ensure 504 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: Muslim faithful are following in the footsteps of Muhammad. And 505 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: as I understand it, there's a principle called abrogation that 506 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: is applied. And I think it's probably central to the 507 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: whole notion of Shariah that somehow what was said in 508 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: Mecca with Allah shared with Muhammad there changed so dramatically 509 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: when he made that Hindraf to Medina, talk about abrogation, 510 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: talk about what that results in in terms of the 511 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: definitive direction to Muslims and what it means for those 512 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: of us who would just like to be at peace 513 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: with these folks. 514 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 5: Well, Frank, abrogation is the result of the fact that 515 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 5: the Koran, as well as the traditions of Muhammed, are 516 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 5: full of contradictions. For example, at one point the Koran 517 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 5: says that alcohol is of some benefit to human beings, 518 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 5: and at another point it says alcohol is from Satan, 519 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 5: and so that is reconciled with the principle of abrogation, 520 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,239 Speaker 5: which is also itself in the Koran. In chapter two, 521 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 5: verse one, hundred and six. When we cancel or abrogate 522 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 5: a passage we or cause you to forget it, then 523 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 5: we will substitute one that is just as good or better. 524 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 5: And so the idea is that if something some passage 525 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 5: contradicts another, then the later one, the one that is 526 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 5: considered to have come chronologically later in Mohammad's life, cancels 527 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 5: or supersedes the earlier one. Now, when it comes to 528 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 5: the warfare against unbelievers, then you have the early your 529 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 5: Meccan passages, according to the traditional understanding, and the later 530 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 5: Medinan passages that are much more bellicos than the Meccan passages. 531 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 5: And because they came later in the career of Mohammad, 532 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 5: the belicos passages are considered to cancel or supersede the 533 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 5: tolerant ones. Now that doesn't mean that you should just 534 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 5: drop out. Some people ask me when I talk about this, well, 535 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 5: why don't they just remove these abrogated passages from the Qur'an, 536 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 5: Because they do have an application. If you were in 537 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 5: the position of Mohammed in Mecca, a small weak group, 538 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 5: then you preach tolerance. But then when you later gain power, 539 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,399 Speaker 5: you'd stop talking about tolerance. And begin to be much 540 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 5: more aggressive in asserting the elements of Islamic law over 541 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,399 Speaker 5: the non Muslims. And that is what we're seeing now 542 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 5: in America, the transition from what you could call the 543 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 5: Meccan period to the Medean period. 544 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: And is that primarily robert a function of demographics as 545 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: they become numerous, and particularly in a democratic society like ours, 546 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,719 Speaker 1: they can begin to play perhaps a kingmaker role in elections. 547 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: That aggressiveness medinan you know, directives kick in. 548 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 5: Well, it has a great deal to do with demographics, 549 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 5: but it also has to do or primarily has to 550 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 5: do with political power, which doesn't necessarily depend upon demographics. 551 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 5: It depends upon the situation of the country that they're 552 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,600 Speaker 5: in and how accommodating and appeasement minded the infidels are, 553 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 5: and how easy it is for the Muslims to attain 554 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,880 Speaker 5: political power. And so now we see in the United 555 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 5: States with both parties courting the Muslim vote and trying 556 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 5: to get Muslims in the aggregate to vote for them. 557 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 5: We see that we see for example, any mom in 558 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 5: Houston quite recently going into stores and telling them you 559 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 5: better stop selling alcohol and pork, or we're going to 560 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 5: start demonstrations, and he did start the demonstrations. And this 561 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 5: is he is proceeding from the assumption that nobody in 562 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 5: the Houston area, no politician, is going to have the 563 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 5: guts to say anything to him or to stop this behavior, 564 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,960 Speaker 5: and so Sharia will continue to be able to expand. 565 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 5: And he's right about that. We don't have any politicians 566 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 5: who are willing to stand up to this kind of 567 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 5: thing or even realize its implications. 568 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: Well, let me ask you about that, Robert, because on 569 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,320 Speaker 1: the one hand, I was at a presentation that Senator 570 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz from Texas had at the Heritage Foundation. 571 00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 2: Just last week. 572 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: He was very forthright about the fact that Sharia cannot 573 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,920 Speaker 1: be practiced in Texas, and he's working on, as you know, 574 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: a piece of legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood prime 575 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: mover behind Sharia of course worldwide, as a terrorist organization. Also, Robert, 576 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: and I want to get your thoughts on this as well. 577 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: The Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, has recently signed legislation 578 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,160 Speaker 1: and he made some very sweeping declarations that this prohibits 579 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 1: the practice of Sharia in Texas and that it will 580 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: not be permitted. 581 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 2: What are we to make of such comments. 582 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: Are they not indications that, in fact people in political 583 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: life are opposing this kind of behavior. 584 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 5: Well, I'll tell you. I guess that. I have to say. 585 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 5: I'll believe it when I see it. It's one thing 586 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 5: to make a declaration, it's another thing to work on enforcement. 587 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 5: And as far as I know, nothing has been done 588 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 5: regarding this imam strong arming businesses and demanding that they 589 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 5: adhere to Sharia principles. If he is at very least made, 590 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 5: if he is brought into some public forum and it 591 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 5: has made clear to him that in the United States 592 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 5: we have a pluralistic society where there's nothing illegal about 593 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 5: selling alcohol and pork, and he must not practice intimidation 594 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 5: against these businesses, well, then I'll say, yes, it's happening. 595 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:32,320 Speaker 2: Well. 596 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: And one also would like to see in that legislation 597 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: that the governor signed some reference to Shariah, let alone, 598 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: a reference that makes it clear that it is not 599 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: operable in Texas, something that we hope will be forthcoming 600 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: in the next legislation cycle of the Texas legislature. 601 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: Robert, we have to take another break. 602 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more on so many of 603 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: these fronts, particularly the Communist one with Robert Spencer b 604 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: to this state. We're back, and so is Robert Spencer 605 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: for a final segment with him on some of the 606 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,600 Speaker 1: work that he is doing at Jihadwatch dot org, a 607 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,880 Speaker 1: project of the David Horowitz Freedom Center. I strongly encourage 608 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: you to make it one of your default resources. It's 609 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:44,399 Speaker 1: a fabulous, highly informative vehicle for learning about well not 610 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,839 Speaker 1: only what jihadis are up to, but who's helping them, 611 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:55,360 Speaker 1: and in particular what Robert does on that site, jihadwatch 612 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: dot org, as well as in his columns and essays 613 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: and public addresses like the one I had the privilege 614 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 1: of being at last night in Dallas, Texas. He's talking 615 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: about a red green axis. 616 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:11,760 Speaker 2: I've come to call it red. 617 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: Green blue because I think they are globalists in the mix, 618 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: but particularly the folks who are seemingly poised. 619 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 2: To go violent in this country. 620 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: The communists on the one hand, and the well the 621 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: Sharia supremacists on the other are very very urgent concern 622 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: and Robert, I wanted to just ask you, as we've 623 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: talked about on this program before, but you spoke about 624 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,800 Speaker 1: it very powerfully last night here in Dallas. This fellow, 625 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: Zorn Mundani, who is seeking the maryalty position in New 626 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: York City in the upcoming general election, is a man 627 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: who kind of of personifies One might even call him 628 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: the poster child of the Red Green axis. Talk about 629 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: him as a way of sort of sharing more broadly 630 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: in your concerns about what this partnership, this modus vivendi, 631 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: if you will, is up to, and what it might 632 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 1: mean for our country in New York City, for sure, 633 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:22,879 Speaker 1: but far beyond as well. 634 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 5: Well. In the first place, there's no doubt that he 635 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 5: is a Marxist. He denies that he is a communist, 636 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 5: but he really makes it quite clear that he is 637 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 5: when he says the goal is to seize the means 638 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 5: of production and making statements about how housing has to 639 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 5: be decommodified, that is removed from the private sector, so 640 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 5: that everybody is living in government housing. If you've ever 641 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 5: seen government housing, you can imagine how terrible that would be. 642 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 5: What he's talking about is a vision of utopia that 643 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 5: is identical to what we saw in Soviet Union and 644 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,400 Speaker 5: in other Marxist entities. At the same time, he's a 645 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 5: twelve ver Sheeite. That is the governing ideology, the official 646 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:14,280 Speaker 5: religion of the Islamic Republic of Iran, where they frequently 647 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 5: chant death to America. And it has to be noted 648 00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 5: that the Ayatola Kamine, the Supreme leader of Iran, said 649 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 5: that death to America is not just a slogan, it's 650 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 5: a policy. It's the goal of the regime. And consequently, 651 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 5: you have in mom Dannie, as you said, the poster 652 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 5: child the highest point so far of the Red Green axis, 653 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 5: a man who is the adherent of two ideologies that 654 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 5: hate America and that want to see it destroyed, and 655 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,239 Speaker 5: have been completely clear about wishing to do so. Now, 656 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 5: of course, he will not have free reign to do 657 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,919 Speaker 5: everything he wants to do as mayor of New York, 658 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 5: but he can certainly wreak havoc upon the city and 659 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 5: secondarily upon the nation at large, in his efforts to 660 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 5: bring it into line. 661 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:10,000 Speaker 2: With his vision. 662 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:15,880 Speaker 1: Yes, and again, I just want you to reprise something 663 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:20,640 Speaker 1: you've said but again on this program previously, but also 664 00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:26,440 Speaker 1: in the course of your remarks last night, that particular 665 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: strain of the Muslim or Sharia ideology that he adheres 666 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:39,959 Speaker 1: to is particularly ominous. This practice, known as the twelve verse. 667 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:48,560 Speaker 1: Remind us what that's about Robert and why given its tenants, 668 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: the last guy you would want running New York City, 669 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: particularly its security, would be somebody who embraces that ideology. 670 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:03,640 Speaker 5: It is an apocalyptic doomsday theology Frankeitz. The idea is 671 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,640 Speaker 5: that when the Muslims are facing a period of immense persecution, 672 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 5: then their savior figure, the twelfthy Mom, will emerge from 673 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 5: the occultation it's called the hiding. He's been in for 674 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,320 Speaker 5: twelve hundred years, almost twelve hundred years, and will conquer 675 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 5: and Islamize the world and essentially kill everyone who doesn't 676 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 5: become a twelve or Shiit. Now, this is something the 677 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 5: leaders of the Islamic Republic take with extreme seriousness. Mahmud Akmindinajad, 678 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,840 Speaker 5: the former president of Iran, while he was president, actually 679 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,760 Speaker 5: had a highway built from the well where the twelfth 680 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 5: Thy Mom is now hiding to Tehran so that when 681 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,399 Speaker 5: he comes out he can immediately start his mission. Now, 682 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 5: the thing is is that he will only come when 683 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 5: the Muslims are being more persecuted than they have ever been. 684 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,360 Speaker 5: And there have been Summaraneans leaders who have linked this 685 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 5: idea to nuking Israel and then receiving retaliatory nukes that 686 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 5: would result in the deaths of tens of millions or 687 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 5: ten to fifteen million Muslims, and they think that would 688 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 5: bring the twelfthy mom back. And so this is an 689 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 5: extremely dangerous theology that embraces violence, looks to violence as 690 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 5: the way for the culmination of all things to begin. 691 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,319 Speaker 5: And so that's obviously a matter of grave concern for 692 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,360 Speaker 5: those of us who could be caught up in that violence. 693 00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, which could be an awful lot of it is 694 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 1: in fact, certainly in New York City, but possibly as 695 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: a result of insecurity there elsewhere across America. And Robert, 696 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: just a final point on this. One of our colleagues, 697 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: as you know, is Sam Fattis, who was a very 698 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: distinguished veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency, spent most of 699 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: his time under cover as a spy, but in his 700 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: last position was responsible for weapons of mass destruction terrorism, 701 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, trying to prevent it from happening inside our country. 702 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: In particular, he is very concerned about the possibility that 703 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,920 Speaker 1: we would have a very very porous situation in New 704 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: York City possibly giving rise to precisely that kind of terrorism. 705 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:38,759 Speaker 1: And again, the lamentations that might be, you know, emanating 706 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: from vast destruction in Iran if it attacked Israel, could 707 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: be greatly compounded by a sort of apocalyptic situation in 708 00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 1: our country as well. Robert, we have to leave it 709 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: at that. I thank you for your insights in all 710 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: of these matters. They are of such incredible importance. You've 711 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: written a book that will be out very shortly about 712 00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: Zamdani azaramm Danni. 713 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 2: Rather, I strongly commend to. 714 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,920 Speaker 1: Everyone that you pre order it now, and Robert, you 715 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: will be back with us in the very near future. 716 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,719 Speaker 2: God bless you, my friend. Keep up the good work. 717 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,239 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. That's all for today. Folks, come 718 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:20,839 Speaker 2: back to us next time if you wouldn't. Until they 719 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,800 Speaker 2: go forth and multiply