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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: What this stuff? Never told? Your production of iHeartRadio. And

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Speaker 2: we are so, so, so so happy to be joined

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Speaker 2: once again by the excellent, the exemplary Bridgete Todd. Welcome back, bridget.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. Every time I come back

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Speaker 3: to hang out with you. All the intros that you

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Speaker 3: give are my favorite thing. They just leave me feeling

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Speaker 3: so pumped up.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was worried I would stumble over exemplary, but

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Speaker 2: I think I think you did.

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Speaker 1: You have that prepped ready to go, like what are

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Speaker 1: the what are the descriptors that I will admit sometimes

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Speaker 1: I do it off the cuff and sometimes I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, today I want to really pull something

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Speaker 1: out that I haven't used before. Also, you know, you

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Speaker 1: have to be thoughtful because it has to be true.

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Speaker 1: We don't li on this podcast, not least nothing.

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Speaker 2: Not purposely. Not purposely. No, bridget how have you been.

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Speaker 3: Well as someone who lives in the District of Columbia,

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Speaker 3: that's always a loaded question. Yeah, it has been weird.

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Speaker 3: The vibes in DC are no one's having a good time,

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Speaker 3: but you know, we're hanging in there. I think it's

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Speaker 3: been interesting. The ways that people are coping and like

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Speaker 3: leading into community, leading into like what's happening in there

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Speaker 3: in there on their block, things like that. I think

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Speaker 3: people are really kind of focused on like what's happening

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Speaker 3: at the local level to sort of distract from all

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Speaker 3: of the dread happening at the national level here in DC.

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Speaker 3: So it's been a lot. How are you all coping

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Speaker 3: feeling hanging in there?

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of stress and anxiety, for sure. I

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Speaker 2: will say today I have had a fun distraction at

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Speaker 2: my friend's expense because her snake got out of it's

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Speaker 2: aquarium and she can't find snake, and so I've been

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Speaker 2: getting a lot of updates today about the search for

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Speaker 2: the snake, and that's given me a lot of fun distraction.

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Speaker 2: I do feel bad if you're listening, Katie, I'm really sorry.

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Speaker 2: Did you say you can't find snake? She can't find

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Speaker 2: the snake And she said this has happened before. Last time.

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Speaker 2: It took her five days to find the snake. So

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Speaker 2: the snake is out there, the snake is in the house,

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Speaker 2: and she's telling me like they can open cabinets and

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Speaker 2: they can do all these things, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, wait what that's what she told me.

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Speaker 2: She's giving me a lot of fingers. I believe that

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Speaker 2: she would know, but I guess so. I've learned a

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Speaker 2: lot about snakes from her over the years. She also

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Speaker 2: had to like take the snick to a vet once

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Speaker 2: because it was overweight. So basically she had a diagram

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Speaker 2: she showed me and this was like she she was like,

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Speaker 2: this is how you can tell the snake is overwell,

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Speaker 2: so basically finding my distractions where I can, but very stressed.

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Speaker 4: She has got to find that snake.

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Speaker 3: It's probably I mean, like, if they can open cabinets,

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Speaker 3: what can't they do it? Probably doing her taxes and

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Speaker 3: she's gonna get audited.

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Speaker 4: Can you find the snake?

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Speaker 2: I know, what could the snake be up to?

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that's a cartoon. I need to set.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: I have an amazing idea. I'm so in this little glasses

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Speaker 1: and a little type okay.

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Speaker 4: Little a visors And I don't know why. It's she

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Speaker 4: being an old timey, but it.

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Speaker 2: Is a a for a long time.

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Speaker 4: How long do they live?

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Speaker 3: I'm like so invested in the snake and in the

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Speaker 3: snake story me too.

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Speaker 2: This has been like my whole morning. They live alone.

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Speaker 2: That she's had him for at least at least fifteen

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Speaker 2: years I think. And she's big. Her name is Penny.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and she's a really big snake. But I've

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Speaker 2: been told they can can they could really compress themselves

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Speaker 2: into small shapes.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's what I'm like. It's with outside of

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Speaker 1: the house. I wouldn't be surprised.

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Speaker 4: Are you all snake snake people?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Would you entertain having a snake in your home voluntarily?

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Speaker 1: Hell?

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Speaker 2: No, I had one as a kid.

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Speaker 4: I do not know this about you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it did escape. Actually, now that I.

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Speaker 1: Think about it, did you ever find it?

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Speaker 2: No? I never. I never found it again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it might be one of those things where your

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Speaker 1: parents were like.

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Speaker 2: Oh I actually I suspect did that before. Actually, and

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Speaker 2: then my brother had a snake, but I had a

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Speaker 2: pet turtle. But my pet turtle ate his snake turtle.

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Speaker 2: Turtles don't mess around. I'm telling you.

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Speaker 3: I had a pet fish that we kept in the

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Speaker 3: same I guess like terrarium as a turtle and the turtle.

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Speaker 3: One day we came and the fish fin had been.

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Speaker 4: There was a nip out of it and then one

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Speaker 4: day we came and that the fish was just gone.

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Speaker 4: We probably should have removed it.

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Speaker 3: This is a terrible stormoved it after that first nip,

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Speaker 3: But I was like, what's going on with this fish?

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Speaker 4: It did not occur to me that the turtle had

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Speaker 4: a been.

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Speaker 2: Snacking turtles the villain here, Yeah, turtle, they don't mess around.

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Speaker 4: Watch expected.

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Speaker 1: Franklin told us lies. But yeah, so I will say,

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Speaker 1: allergies have gotten me. I've been lamenting this for the

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Speaker 1: past week. So if I cough, I'm so sorry. I'm

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Speaker 1: trying not to do it on Mike. I'm trying also

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Speaker 1: not to sniffle on Mike. My voice is it's gotten better,

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Speaker 1: but it's still a little lower than the typical sound

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Speaker 1: from myself. But also we did get a victory here

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Speaker 1: in Georgia in which we tabled House Bill four forty one,

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Speaker 1: which is the Georgia Prenatal Equal Protections Act, and it

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Speaker 1: would have outright it was an outright abortion man with

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Speaker 1: no exceptions whatsoever. But the fact that that got that

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Speaker 1: wasn't even voted for because there were so many people

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Speaker 1: who were against it. Small victories, So we were celebrating

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Speaker 1: that here. A lot of activists went and protested at

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Speaker 1: the state capitol. So you know, I feel like that

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Speaker 1: glimmer of hope is pushing us through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like, honestly, take your w's where you can.

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Speaker 3: It goes back to what I was saying earlier, like

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Speaker 3: you have a little more control over what happens locally,

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Speaker 3: So like that's where you got to focus your inturgy.

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Speaker 3: I feel like right now, if you're looking or something

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Speaker 3: to do, that feels like you could have an actual impact.

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Speaker 1: Right And the fact that that actually seemingly worked gives

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Speaker 1: us a little more inspiration as we keep finding because

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Speaker 1: you know, Georgia has a lot of work to do

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Speaker 1: that soils the country.

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Speaker 2: Amen. Yeah, well it's quite a doozy of a topic today, Bridge,

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Speaker 2: but I'm really interested to learn more about it. So

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Speaker 2: tell us what are we talking about today?

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Speaker 4: Okay, we're talking about the one, the only Candace Owens

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Speaker 4: speaking of villains? Am I kidding?

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Speaker 3: We'll see, So, like I should say up top, like

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Speaker 3: I am weirdly fascinated with her.

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Speaker 4: What do you all have thoughts?

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Speaker 3: If she's somebody who is on your radar, what is

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Speaker 3: your experience what are your experiences with Candace Owens?

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Speaker 4: Or do you have any.

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Speaker 2: Minor negative minor most negative? But I most of most

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Speaker 2: stuff I know is more recent. Uh, And I didn't

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Speaker 2: know a lot of what I know we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about in here. But I will say generally, she's

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Speaker 2: someone I'm very aware of and that have a lot

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Speaker 2: of negative associations with.

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Speaker 1: I will say, yes, I do know of her.

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Speaker 4: Of course.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I immediately put me on

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Speaker 1: high alert is that she is one person that my

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Speaker 1: racist Trump supporting backwards brother has used as a token

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Speaker 1: in saying, see, we love black people.

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Speaker 3: Oh that is like that that has probably been the

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Speaker 3: experience of so many folks listening. And I guess what

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Speaker 3: I want to talk about today might actually answer why.

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Speaker 3: That is because she is someone that people in my

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Speaker 3: life have like cited or mentioned or like, oh I

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Speaker 3: saw I saw Candace Owens talking about this, and I'm like, what,

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Speaker 3: like why are you watching Candace owe Are you listening

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Speaker 3: to her podcast? So like I am like weirdly fascinated

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Speaker 3: by her. She is somebody who has a legitimately fascinating

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Speaker 3: story and like where like from where she started to

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Speaker 3: where she wound up? I just find deeply interesting. I

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Speaker 3: don't want to focus too much on her like personal background,

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Speaker 3: but there are some pieces of her early story that

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Speaker 3: I do think are important context for like understanding who

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Speaker 3: she is and sort of the role she has gone on.

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Speaker 4: To occupy in the world.

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Speaker 3: So Owens grew up in Stanford, Connecticut, and while she

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Speaker 3: was a high school student there, she was like racially

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Speaker 3: harassed in a pretty gnarly way. A classmate left her

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Speaker 3: a racist death threat on her voicemail that ended up

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Speaker 3: turning into like a pretty serious local scandal because it

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Speaker 3: turned out the person her classmate that left that voicemail

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Speaker 3: did so in a group of students that included the

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Speaker 3: son of the then mayor and future Democratic governor of Connecticut,

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Speaker 3: Daniel Malloy. So it got it was really really blown

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Speaker 3: up into like a little bit of a scandal. Kendicce

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Speaker 3: got lots of support from the local chapter of racial

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Speaker 3: justice organizations like the NAACP, and our family ended up

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Speaker 3: suing the Stanford Board of Education in federal court for

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Speaker 3: failing to protect her rights, which resulted in a thirty

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Speaker 3: seven thousand, five hundred dollars settlement. After that, she goes

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Speaker 3: on to study journalism at University of Rhode Island before

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Speaker 3: dropping out. So this is really the part of her

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Speaker 3: story where I have to be honest, I see some

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Speaker 3: parallels between me and her. You know, we're both black

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Speaker 3: women who were sort of early adopters of the Internet

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Speaker 3: to talk about things like race and culture and politics

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Speaker 3: like me. For her, that seems to have manifested in

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Speaker 3: a lot of like low hanging fruit posts about you know, politics,

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Speaker 3: like dumb jokes, like you know, the early days of

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Speaker 3: blogging about politics online, it really was dumb jokes, was like,

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Speaker 3: and like stupid memes were the lifeblood of that. And

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Speaker 3: so in twenty fifteen, she was writing blogs making fun

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Speaker 3: of Trump's penis size to give you a sense of

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Speaker 3: the kind of thing that she was writing about, which

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Speaker 3: honestly is something I would I wasn't doing that, but

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Speaker 3: I could see myself doing it great.

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Speaker 1: I would definitely chuckle yeah if I saw it.

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Speaker 3: So some people might be surprised to know that Candice

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Speaker 3: actually started her career as a public intellectual or republic

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Speaker 3: opinion have or commentator or whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 3: as a leftist, like a progressive. In twenty fifteen, she

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Speaker 3: was writing this blog called Degree one eighty, where she

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Speaker 3: wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans, writing about quote the back

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Speaker 3: crazy antics of the Republican tea Party. Something that she

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Speaker 3: wrote in her blog was, quote the good news is

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Speaker 3: they will eventually die off peacefully in their sleep, we hope,

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Speaker 3: and then we can get right on with the obvious

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Speaker 3: social change that needs to happen immediately. So you really

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Speaker 3: get a sense of her as someone who was just

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Speaker 3: like young Obama era progressive, using the early Internet, blogging

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Speaker 3: and things like that to really put her voice, in

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Speaker 3: her perspective into the world again, something that I, frankly

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Speaker 3: I can really see myself in.

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Speaker 1: Is it surprising it is? I guess it is her origins.

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Speaker 1: Just I just knew as you came out swinging on

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Speaker 1: the opposite end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, what's interesting about that, and I can definitely

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Speaker 3: speak from my own experience here, is that I connected

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Speaker 3: with a lot of her early writing when she was

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Speaker 3: still sort of like writing about the tea Party and

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Speaker 3: blah blah blah, but certainly nobody knew who like she

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Speaker 3: wasn't like a known voice or a no name, right,

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Speaker 3: And I do think it speaks to the fact that

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Speaker 3: like when she switched up her ideology and her perspective

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Speaker 3: and what she was talking about. She got so much

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Speaker 3: more attention. Like I like, as a black woman leftist

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Speaker 3: who talks about, you know, lefty stuff on the internet,

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Speaker 3: we are a dime a dozen. Nobody is really paying

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Speaker 3: that much attention. But when you do the switch up,

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Speaker 3: you really become a much bigger name and you get

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Speaker 3: a lot more attention and a lot more engagement. And

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Speaker 3: I think it's a lot more lucrative to be a

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Speaker 3: black woman right winger than it is to be a

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Speaker 3: black woman leftist.

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Speaker 2: I was actually reading about this recently. Is the shadow

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Speaker 2: of gamer Gate when it comes to the Internet and

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Speaker 2: how it looks today and how it's still like the impacts,

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Speaker 2: just the fallout of it is still here. And that

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Speaker 2: was a part of candice owned story.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, so I am like you, Annie, gamer Gate

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Speaker 3: and everything surrounding it is my Roman empire. It is

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Speaker 3: the thing that keeps me up. And I did a

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Speaker 3: whole series with cool Zone Media about how gamer Gate

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Speaker 3: and just general harassment against women and women of color

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Speaker 3: and minoritize people. You could draw a direct line from

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Speaker 3: that to like our political and social climate today, Like

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Speaker 3: this is the stuff that I am like making a

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Speaker 3: stringboard a bad and being like and then this happened,

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Speaker 3: and then that happened, and then ten years later this

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Speaker 3: happened like this is my white whale, and Candace Owens

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Speaker 3: was really like, this was a gamer Gate was really

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Speaker 3: sort of like well mean. She describes it as like

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Speaker 3: a radicalizing moment for her. So in twenty sixteen, when

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Speaker 3: Gamergate was in full swing, Owens launched a Kickstarter for

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Speaker 3: a project she called Social Autopsy, which she described as

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Speaker 3: a way to catalog the abuses of trolls and cyberbullies online.

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Speaker 3: The kickstarter for this project is still up today. Here's

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Speaker 3: a little taste of Owen's describing it in her own words.

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Speaker 5: It takes a nanosecond, a mere push of a button,

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Speaker 5: to share our ideas, opinions, and emotions across the world instantly.

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Speaker 5: But for every cat meme, your best friend tweets at

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Speaker 5: you were, for ever I miss you, comment, your grandma

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Speaker 5: leaves on your Facebook wall, there are literally thousands of

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Speaker 5: instances of hate speech being circulated online. Because when communication

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Speaker 5: happens through a screen, and when moments are experienced through relents,

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Speaker 5: a terrifying extraction takes place. The age of technology and

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Speaker 5: social media has slowly disintegrated individual accountability, the consequences of

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Speaker 5: which are devastating.

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Speaker 3: So that should give you a little bit of an

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Speaker 3: idea of what I mean. It's interesting because it really

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Speaker 3: feels like a time capsule from a different time. You know,

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Speaker 3: Like hearing Candice Owens talk about how bad things like

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Speaker 3: hate speech are and how it's dividing us is like

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Speaker 3: just very interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, throw off, Like like wait, what same parcels? Okay?

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Speaker 3: No, So the plan for Social Autopsy was basically it

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Speaker 3: was a project meant to like de anonymize online commentation

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Speaker 3: and then connect them with their real life names and

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Speaker 3: then real life employers. And it's funny because this is

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Speaker 3: still an argument that people make when they want to

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Speaker 3: restrict the Internet today, that like, all the problems that

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Speaker 3: happen on the Internet, from harassment to child exploitation material,

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Speaker 3: all of that could all be solved if you needed,

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Speaker 3: like your government ID to access the Internet. And so

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Speaker 3: it's funny how these ideas there are people pushing that

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Speaker 3: concept today and even I mean, like some people who

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Speaker 3: are well meaning but in my opinion incorrect, are still

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Speaker 3: pushing that idea. And so it's funny how some of

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Speaker 3: these ideas never really die, they're just recycled, Like Cannece

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Speaker 3: Owens was talking about this in twenty sixteen, and here

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Speaker 3: we are in twenty twenty five, still talking about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes we are, but oh my goodness, speaking of things,

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Speaker 2: we're still talking about. Another thing we've talked about a

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Speaker 2: lot on this show. Another thing I've been thinking about

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Speaker 2: a lot lately is the radicalization that can happen online.

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Speaker 2: And Candace Owens kind of talks about this. This is

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Speaker 2: sort of her experience with Gate.

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Speaker 3: So when she exactly that, So when she came out

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Speaker 3: with Social Autopsy, pretty much everybody hated it right like

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Speaker 3: it was like a universal digital.

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Speaker 4: Boo or like thumbs down.

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Speaker 3: And one of the people who was like really not

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Speaker 3: into this idea was Zoe Quinn, whose name you might

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Speaker 3: know if you know about Gamergate, because she was someone

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Speaker 3: who was pretty viciously attacked in Gamergate. So after all

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Speaker 3: of the backlash from this project that Candace tried to

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Speaker 3: put out into the world via Kickstarter, she herself was

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Speaker 3: doxed and harassed, and Candace actually blamed Zoe Quinn and

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Speaker 3: other feminists for this harassment and started saying so publicly.

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Speaker 3: You can probably guess who loved this and like seized

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Speaker 3: on it. That's right, people like Miloianapolis, people who were

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Speaker 3: promoters of gamergate and like doing the harassment of Gamergate

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Speaker 3: really hyped up Owens's claim that yeah, it's the feminists

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Speaker 3: who are the ones who were doing the actual online harassment,

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Speaker 3: not you know, these gamer bros and like right wingers.

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Speaker 3: It's actually feminists who are the bad guys here. And

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Speaker 3: this event Owen's credits with her turn from progressive to

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Speaker 3: being what she calls a red pilled radical. She says, quote,

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Speaker 3: I became a conservative overnight. I realized that liberals were

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Speaker 3: actually the racists. Liberals were actually the trolls, and so Annie,

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Speaker 3: you're exactly right that Like she describes this as like

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Speaker 3: an overnight turning point of her going from being a

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Speaker 3: progressive who was collaborating with the NAACP and writing about

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Speaker 3: how awful Republicans and Trump and the Tea Party Republicans were,

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Speaker 3: to like overnight waking up and being like, no, it

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Speaker 3: is liberals who are the real enemy.

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Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts because I don't I was

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Speaker 1: not a part of the gamorgate world, like I did

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Speaker 1: not understand what was happening out there in the internets

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Speaker 1: because I was case managing and like groveling in my

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Speaker 1: own like everything's worse, but like her being dogs and

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Speaker 1: all this, because I'm sure just as many like people

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Speaker 1: who were feminists and who were victims of gamer gait

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Speaker 1: and such, there were more probably jerks out there who

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Speaker 1: were like, no, we were definitely against this idea and

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Speaker 1: harassing her because they don't want their name out there,

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Speaker 1: which is what she was trying to do, right, So

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Speaker 1: but she just picked a group like no, it's definitely

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Speaker 1: after she got so much support totally.

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Speaker 3: So my understanding is that like and if folks listening

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Speaker 3: are like I was there, remember, as far as I know,

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Speaker 3: this was like feminists having good faith disagreement with Candace's project,

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Speaker 3: and then Candace probably pumped up by some of these

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Speaker 3: like right wing bro gamer guys who were behind a

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Speaker 3: lot of this harassment and like we have all the

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Speaker 3: receipts for that, probably pumped up by some of them

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Speaker 3: just like just like assumed that these feminists were the

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Speaker 3: ones behind it. So like, as far as I know,

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Speaker 3: she this was not a documented thing, but you know,

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Speaker 3: certainly like like I was, I was like.

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Speaker 4: Pretty in the mix on the internet in these days.

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Speaker 3: Certainly this feud between Candace Owens and feminists like Zoquinn

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Speaker 3: about Gamergate was something that like got her name into

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Speaker 3: the conversation in a way that I don't think it

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Speaker 3: had been before and.

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Speaker 1: For a lot of attention seekers. Not that she is

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Speaker 1: I don't know this person. I don't know candas Owns

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Speaker 1: in real life. But if this is what we're seeing,

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Speaker 1: negative Titchen is just as good as good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So it's so interesting that you say this because she's

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Speaker 3: not someone that I would take at her word. I

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Speaker 3: guess I'll put it that way, Like I don't know

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Speaker 3: how reliable of a narrator she is. However, when she

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Speaker 3: says like, oh, overnight, I realized that feminists were the

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Speaker 3: real enemy, and the people that I should be allying

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Speaker 3: myself were people like Maloganapolis, I don't think that she's

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Speaker 3: outright lying, but I think that what she's saying is

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Speaker 3: probably a lot closer to what you've just said, Sam,

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Speaker 3: that like what she realized was like when I was

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Speaker 3: just a feminist online, I didn't get a lot of attention,

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Speaker 3: but when I started publicly beefing with these other feminists.

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Speaker 4: I was getting a lot of attention.

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Speaker 3: These these right wing extremist types like Miloganopolis, who had

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Speaker 3: huge platforms, started paying me more attention and giving me

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Speaker 3: more support, giving me more engagement, and like, I think,

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Speaker 3: I think there's something to this idea that Like, I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't necessarily say that she.

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Speaker 4: Changed her ideological ideas.

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Speaker 3: I think that what she realized was like, oh, if

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Speaker 3: I align myself with people on the right, that comes

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Speaker 3: with attention.

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Speaker 4: Again, this is just my opinion. I don't know her,

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Speaker 4: but that's my sense.

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Speaker 3: I like, I don't think that she's outright misrepresenting this shift,

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Speaker 3: but I think it's not necessarily about an ideology so

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Speaker 3: much as it is like, oh, like public spats and

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Speaker 3: rage bait and like spectacle gets me engagement and attention,

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Speaker 3: and that can translate to dollars out right, I can

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Speaker 3: play this game. That's that's my sense of what's going

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Speaker 3: on here.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like she was finding a brand,

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Speaker 1: and we like, she is a brand, whether or not

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Speaker 1: we want to admit that's the case, but she is

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Speaker 1: a brand, and she's starting to hone in on this brand,

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Speaker 1: and she's going to go for what gives her the

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Speaker 1: most uh success.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this was successful.

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Speaker 3: Like once she starts doing this, you know, and she

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Speaker 3: starts promoting right wing viewpoints on YouTube. She had a

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Speaker 3: YouTube channel called red Pill Black, which, like I gotta say,

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Speaker 3: is actually like a pretty good name. Credit where credit

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Speaker 3: is due. It's like, I get I like that branding.

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Speaker 3: She catches the attention of Charlie Kirk, who founded Turning

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Speaker 3: Points USA, just like big right wing media entity, and

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Speaker 3: he hires her. So at this point, Candice goes from

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Speaker 3: like a little no blogger blogging about lefty politics that

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Speaker 3: nobody's ever heard of, to like making huge viral videos

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Speaker 3: that are getting so much attention, where she's doing things

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Speaker 3: like dismissing the twenty seventeen White Supremacists Unite the Right

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Speaker 3: rally in Charlottesville that left Heather Higher dead. Alex Jones

415
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Speaker 3: invites her to co host some of his Info Wars shows,

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Speaker 3: and again like, keep in mind these I know they

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Speaker 3: seem like fringe media entities, and in some ways they are,

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Speaker 3: but they get so many viewers, Like Alex Jones at

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Speaker 3: his height was getting tons and tons and tons of eyeballs.

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Speaker 3: She starts doing stints on Fox News, So like that's

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Speaker 3: a little more mainstream than Info Wars, right, And in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, she joined The Daily Wire with a

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Speaker 3: ton of fanfare, like this was a huge deal. She

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Speaker 3: ends up moving to Nashville, and when she does that,

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Speaker 3: the state even introduces House Joint Resolution three fifty, a

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Speaker 3: resolution in the Tennessee government to congratulate Candice Owens, a

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Speaker 3: relocated to Tennessee for work at the Daily Wire. That

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Speaker 3: reads quote whereas miss Owens has earned the admiration and

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Speaker 3: respect of millions of Americans through her activism and support

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Speaker 3: of President Trump as a black woman, and her perceptive

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Speaker 3: criticism of creeping socialism and leftist political tyranny.

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Speaker 4: Imagine moving to Nashville, and.

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Speaker 3: It's such a big deal that, like the government of

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Speaker 3: Nashville makes it an official like proclamation in Tennessee government.

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Speaker 1: And if she steps outside of downtown Nashville, she's gonna

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Speaker 1: get threatened for sure. Oh I feel threatened outside. I

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Speaker 1: felt threatened in a lot of places. But like, yeah, so,

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00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: and as a person who was the only Asian person

439
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: in a crowd, the tokenism is so loud.

440
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that proclamation like, oh, like we're proclaiming

441
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,640
Speaker 3: that she's great because she's a black woman who likes Trump.

442
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 4: Like I mean, ad to things like this is one

443
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 4: of the reasons.

444
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: Why I think a lot about Candace Owens is like

445
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: a kind of seductive quality that can come with being

446
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 3: a person of color who is being uplifted as like

447
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 3: some special thing, right, some special one.

448
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 4: And it's it's.

449
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,479
Speaker 3: Such a trap because I don't want to be anybody's token, right,

450
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: I don't want to be anybody's like, oh, like, this

451
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: is a black woman who's doing X y Z, But

452
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 3: I understand the seductive lure of that, and so, like,

453
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess I almost sort of see

454
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 3: Candace Owens as like a fun house mirror version of myself,

455
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 3: Like if like I, like if I were someone who

456
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 3: was really moved or swayed by being uplifted because of

457
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,959
Speaker 3: these things that make me tokenizable, I can sort of

458
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: see liking this, And so I sort of see a

459
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: lot of like of my shadow self and Candice Owens.

460
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 4: I guess I should say, does that make sense?

461
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: I probably no, Yes, No, I think I understand because

462
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: like my younger self, my younger self seeking desperately to

463
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: be white seeming to be accepted by white people. So

464
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: when I in high school not understanding the depth and

465
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: depravity of white supremacy and how dark it is, like

466
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: sitting there arguing, no, not arguing, but agreeing with my

467
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: young racist brother about this, like, yes, affirmative action is

468
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: so awful. I want to earn it. I don't want

469
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: to be, you know, given special treatment because of my race.

470
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: And that's not the case at all, that's not the

471
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: conversation at all, but because of what I've been fed.

472
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 1: And the minute I said that, he's like, see, she

473
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 1: knows she's Asian, Like he literally said that out loud,

474
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: and being so proud of me for understanding white supremacy,

475
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: like in like in that way, but wanting to like

476
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: liking that moment. Now look with Shane, But at that moment,

477
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, I'm one of you.

478
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 6: Yes, exactly as you.

479
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 3: It's so seductive and if you like, I was the

480
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 3: exact same way when I was younger, Like, and it's

481
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 3: like nobody likes feeling excluded or like the other, or

482
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 3: like they don't belong. And so in those glimmers where

483
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 3: you do feel like someone is saying like see, it

484
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: feels good, and I think it's it's like doing the

485
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 3: work of training yourself to really see those moments for

486
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: what they are and not like being pulled into the

487
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: good feelings of like well this I'm getting feedback from

488
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 3: my brother that's making me feel accepted and that he

489
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: sees me and whatever whatever. But like, you know, you

490
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,640
Speaker 3: really have to do the work to be like, well,

491
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 3: is this actually what I want to be seen for?

492
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: Like you know, right, I don't want to agree with you.

493
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: Now I understand what I'm agreeing with. This is completely

494
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: wrong and against humanity.

495
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 6: What if.

496
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: Candice Owens is pulling the best grift of all time

497
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: and just taking all the Conservative money, Like if that

498
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: was the end story to this, I'm like, if anybody

499
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: deserves the Republican Conservative money as a black woman.

500
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,359
Speaker 6: So I can't really I hear that, right, Like this

501
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 6: is smart? I mean it's not smart.

502
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: It's like it feels like a betrayal, but for her

503
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: on her individual level coming in and being token to

504
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: being all these multi million dollar shows. Because you know,

505
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: we know that Alex Jones made a lot of money

506
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: from his hatred. We know that we've seen it, he

507
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: talks about it. We know Charlie Kirk as well. Her

508
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: coming in and taking their money's kind of like, you know,

509
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't hate it for you, like I hate what

510
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: youter saying.

511
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I used to think, and again, this is

512
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 3: my opinion. I don't know her like that or anything,

513
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 3: but like I used to think, like, certainly she's playing

514
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: these people.

515
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: She doesn't believe this. Now I don't know. Now I

516
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 4: think she's like a true believer.

517
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: But like maybe I go back and forth and again

518
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: it's one of those things that one of those reasons

519
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: why I find her so deeply fascinating, right because like,

520
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 3: like as a black woman, I am tempted to like

521
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: project like, well, certainly this is some sort of a

522
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it is a grift, don't get me wrong.

523
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 4: And it's like, for sure a grift like she grifted.

524
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: Can't confirm, but like I it really made it really

525
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: promised me to look back at myself to be like, well,

526
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 3: why am I like why like am I low key

527
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: rooting for her?

528
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 4: Like what is this?

529
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: Right?

530
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 4: Right?

531
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: Right?

532
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: Like you're the like you're not my favorite, but you're

533
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: not the worst worst exactly get out where you are

534
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: in this in the spectrum. But you know, on top

535
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: of all of that, as we were talking about in Nashville,

536
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: being like, if you go outside of the city, escape

537
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: and no people don't know you, You're not going to

538
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: get this love that you think you're getting from this

539
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: very uh again, white supremacist patriarch that you are representing

540
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: and are trying to play for, Like all these things,

541
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: eventually they're gonna turn on you.

542
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: Well, that actually happens in her story. So you know,

543
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 3: when she's working at Daily Wire, you're thinking, like, you know,

544
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: she's got this huge gig, probably making a ton of money,

545
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 3: should be smooth sailing, but there is a huge, messy

546
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 3: public fallout just a few years later.

547
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 4: So she's working at Daily Wire.

548
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 3: Last year there was this public friction between Candace and

549
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: Ben Shapiro, one of the founders of Daily Wire, the

550
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: network that Candace had used to be on.

551
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 4: Now it's not one hundred percent.

552
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: Clear exactly what caused attension between the two, but at

553
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: least publicly there it seemed to be some kind of

554
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 3: a reaction to the situation in Gaza. Ben Shapiro is Jewish,

555
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: and Owens has said a lot of anti Semitic stuff,

556
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: like even before October seventh, she was going hard doing

557
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 3: things like defending Kanye West, but things really seemed to

558
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: kick into high gear with her anti semitism on October seventh.

559
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: Now it is important to make a distinction here that

560
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: she's not like criticizing the actions of the Israeli state.

561
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: She is getting into stuff like blood libel.

562
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: Conspiracy theories, which is this anti Semitic conspiracy theory that

563
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 3: Jewish people drink blood for power, and like other deep

564
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: deep conspiracy theories. Right like, she said that Judaism was

565
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 3: a quote pedophile centric religion that believes in demons and

566
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: child sacrifice, and that people are waking up to the

567
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: fact that pedophiles are in power. So she is saying

568
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: some like truly out of pocket wild stuff, and then

569
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: things start taking kind of a bent toward her employer.

570
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: She wrote on Twitter quote, no one can serve two masters.

571
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: You cannot serve both God and money, to which Ben

572
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 3: Shapiro Comma. Her boss replies, Candace, if you feel that

573
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: taking money from the Daily Wire somehow comes between you

574
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 3: and God, by all means quit. Now I gotta say, like,

575
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: I don't find myself agreeing with Candace Owens or Ben

576
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 3: Shapiro much but I kind of thought Ben Shapiro kind

577
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: of has a point here, Like this is her boss

578
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: and she's publicly getting into sabbats with him on Twitter.

579
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 4: Not a good look.

580
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: Could have maybe maybe done that a little bit more privately, Yeah.

581
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 4: Like sit an email.

582
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: But like that's the thing about Canvas is like Canus

583
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: wouldn't be Candace if she didn't if she did if

584
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 3: she did this privately.

585
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: Cannus wouldn't be Candace if she avoided this.

586
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 3: Like her career got a jumpstart from Spectacle on Twitter,

587
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 3: so like she that is something that is like her

588
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 3: bread and butter is like Spectacle on social media. So

589
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: it gets absolutely messy as hell and it's all public.

590
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: Owens claimed that Ben Shapiro had quote been acting unprofessional

591
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 3: and emotionally unhinged for weeks now and said that Shapiro

592
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: crossed a certain line when you come for scripture and

593
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: read yourself into it, I will not tolerate it.

594
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 4: She goes on Tucker.

595
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: Carlson Show, saying that Ben Shapiro was attacking her using

596
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: ad hominem attacks. She then tweets that she wants her

597
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 3: and Ben Shapiro to sit down and have a discussion

598
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: moderated by this podcaster Patrick Bette Deavide.

599
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: Ben Shapiro was.

600
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 3: Having none of this, and again, I can't say that

601
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: I blame him. Like challenging your boss to a debate,

602
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: a public debate on Twitter, it's just like not a

603
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: good look. So when she was like debate me, bro,

604
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: Ben Shapiro tweeted Candice, I can see why you'd want

605
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 3: to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we

606
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 3: should rename our company. Quote the Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday,

607
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: no one on one Monday at five pm, we can

608
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: sit down and have a healthy debate like adults and

609
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 3: will live stream it on x and YouTube. Take it

610
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: or leave it. So they're really going back and forth.

611
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 3: And I gotta give a little side note here for

612
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 3: what it's worth. This is just like my personal opinion

613
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: as somebody who has been around the block and worked

614
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 3: in the media for a really long time.

615
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: The reason I.

616
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 3: Am not saying that the actual root of their disagreement

617
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 3: was Israel or Judaism like one hundred percent is because

618
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 3: I I just smell some kind of a contractual dispute here.

619
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 3: Something about the way that they are going back and

620
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 3: forth reads to me like Owens maybe had like an inflexible,

621
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: ironclad contract that maybe she felt like she could make

622
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 3: more money on her own and that she had to

623
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 3: get out of this contract or vice versa. Maybe Daily

624
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 3: Wire wanted her out. Something about the intensity of the

625
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: public escalation with her boss just suggests to me that

626
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 3: something else might have been going on. Again, this is

627
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 3: just my sense. I don't have any inside information. It

628
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: just seems like a lot to be doing. It just

629
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 3: seems like a lot to be doing. But again, this

630
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 3: is Candice Owens. We're talking about the very definition of

631
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: doing the most on social media.

632
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 4: But that's just my sense.

633
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: I feel like it's one again once, like the fact

634
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: that they work so hard on like the conservative right

635
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 1: wing side that knowing that one person being Jewish and

636
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,919
Speaker 1: the other person being a black woman, I'm like, they're

637
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: not on your side, Like no, they just are just

638
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: like wanting you to find it out. This is what

639
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 1: they want so that they can obtain more power. But

640
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: you two, I mean, it's just it's just is it ironic,

641
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, or is it just Sam.

642
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: I was like watching this like you know, like like

643
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 3: I was like let him fight, like I was my love.

644
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 4: And every minute, was like favoring every tweet.

645
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: Reading it like you know how it used to be

646
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 3: on Twitter. You could like go to like show more

647
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: to see like you that I need to.

648
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 4: Start from the beginning. I was eating it up and again, like.

649
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: Obviously Kennas has hit on something because like these this

650
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: public spectacle, these public spats, even with her employer, they

651
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: do generate engagement. Like she's she's she's not new to this,

652
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 3: she's true to this, Like she's been using.

653
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 4: This kind of thing to get negative attention.

654
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 3: To boost herself for a very long time, and she's

655
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 3: very good at it. So the seems to be like

656
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: the red line here was when Rabbi Schmooley Botice criticized

657
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 3: Owen's for her defenses of Kanye West. Owens then like

658
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: to tweet, asking the rabbi if he was quote drunk

659
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: on Jewish blood again. A few days later, Daily Wire

660
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 3: and Candace Owens officially ended her their relationship with Owen's tweeting,

661
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 3: the rumors are true.

662
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 4: I am finally free.

663
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: Just there's so many things that I like, there's so

664
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: many things to this level of conversation that yes, it is.

665
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 1: It's just like the Song of Francesca Ramsey did with

666
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: like that lepers or you know, like they didn't think that,

667
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: you know, And I'm like yeah. But at the same time,

668
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 1: with the way she ended, it does sound like it

669
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:43,919
Speaker 1: was a whole play to get out.

670
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 4: I just I mean, like I don't know, but like.

671
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 3: She had to, Like, there is no way that Candace

672
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 3: did not think that, like she was putting her job

673
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 3: at risk, right, So I just do not buy that.

674
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: She was like, I'm gonna be I just these are

675
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 3: my convictions and I can just say what I want

676
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: and it's free speech and it'll be fine. There is

677
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 3: no way, like I just if anybody listening has the

678
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 3: real tea, I just can sense there's something else here

679
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: and it just it just it gives contract dispute to me.

680
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 4: That's all I'll say.

681
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 3: So this is where the story gets interesting to me,

682
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 3: because she kind of fell off of my radar after this.

683
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I guess she's out at Bailey Wire.

684
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: Hadn't really heard much from her. I guess she's like

685
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: doing her thing. And it wasn't until I was trying

686
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: to make sense of the dispute between these two Hollywood

687
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: A listers. Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni that she popped

688
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 3: up on my radar again, So I gotta give a

689
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: big PSA. This is not meant to be a definitive

690
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: breakdown of what is happening with Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively,

691
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 3: which probably could be like its own episode. It is

692
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: not a situation that I have followed super closely, so

693
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 3: I am like not the right person.

694
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: To dig in on all of that. I don't have

695
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 4: any kind of like take or anything.

696
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 3: Like like like it's just it's not It's not a

697
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 3: situation that I am super read in on because it's

698
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 3: a little bit like complicated and I can't.

699
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 4: Quite follow it.

700
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,479
Speaker 3: But that dynamic where I'm like, oh, I don't really

701
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 3: know what's going on, but I'm sort of like casually

702
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: trying to find out. That is actually how Candice Owens

703
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 3: got back on my radar.

704
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: So do you do?

705
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 3: You all know what's happening between Blake Lively and Justin

706
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 3: Baldoni's is something that's like bet on y'all's radar.

707
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 6: It's been against my will.

708
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Literally today I was like, thank god, I haven't

709
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: heard anything about Blake Lively and Justin Baldonia and then

710
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: you see the outline.

711
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 3: So here we go, Like everything I've learned about it

712
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 3: has been against my will. I'm like why, it's like what,

713
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: like it's just like not something I don't know, it's

714
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 3: just like not.

715
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: I mean in the end, like because you were trying

716
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: to compare it to the Johnny dipp amber Herd case,

717
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: which I'm like, yo, back off. There's so many things

718
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: that the implication of that alone makes me think I

719
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: don't want to take this seriously because it's not to

720
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: that lifele We have this conversation because like we spoke

721
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: very quickly before it blew up to this, like the

722
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: very beginning of the conflict, mainly talking about how domestic

723
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: violence victims and survivors really were offended by the way

724
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: that the movie which is the center of this controversy

725
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: was portrayed, and then the how the ad marketing went

726
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: for it and like made it all girly, these good times,

727
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: all these things that then we were like, this is

728
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: really kind of offensive, Like this language of this entire

729
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: language of sometimes it's very serious that people have taken

730
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: very personally and have like a lot of familiarity with

731
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: and trauma with and then it felt like flat, especially

732
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: like with how it is now, especially because it's no

733
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: longer about the movie, no.

734
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 6: But like it's it was.

735
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: We took a small take on that and why romanticizing

736
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: domestic violence is such a such a problem in Hollywood

737
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: and just in our environment in general. But like this

738
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: was way before everything happened, and the back and forth

739
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: and back and forth. I will say, there's a lot

740
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: of disdain for Blake's lively on Ye.

741
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 6: Yes, again, I did not choose this.

742
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: Okay, So it's so funny that you say this. I

743
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 3: have experienced the exact same thing. So so if folks

744
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 3: don't know what we're talking about, if you aren't, like Annie.

745
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 4: Blissfully unaware of like what is going on, it's it's

746
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 4: a situation. It's like a little bit complicated, and it's ongoing.

747
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 3: But it's actually like a pretty interesting story, and it

748
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 3: does include a lot of things that I am interested in,

749
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 3: like how celebrities use social media, how easily social media

750
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 3: platforms can be like weaponized for or against a specific person.

751
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 3: Email correspondence where people make themselves look terrible in writing

752
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 3: because they currently do not expect these emails to be

753
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: like in a deposition or in the New York Times.

754
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 4: That is my personal favorite thing.

755
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 3: Nothing when whenever it's like, oh, we have the emails,

756
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm gonna read every single one of the like,

757
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 3: please continue to put your wrongdoings in emails and in

758
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 3: writing so that my notes can read them later in

759
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 3: a deposition.

760
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 4: So I do think.

761
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 3: That folks should like if that seems like the kind

762
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 3: of situation that you are interested in, Like it is.

763
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: It is a meaty situation, so like, definitely listen to

764
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 3: podcasts about it or whatever. But for our purposes, a

765
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: quick and dirty summary of what's going on is that

766
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 3: Blake Lively and Justin Buldoni we're in a movie adaptation

767
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 3: of the popular Colleen Hoover novel called It Starts with Us.

768
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 3: In December, Lively filed a legal complaint against Boldonni, accusing

769
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: him of sexual harassment and starting a sneer campaign against her.

770
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 3: Now he strongly denies that and has sued. In response,

771
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: both camps are releasing information like text messages and emails

772
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: and like videos and voicemails to make each other look bad.

773
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 3: So the case has turned I mean kind of similar

774
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 3: to the Johnny Depp Amber Heard thing. It's one of

775
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 3: those situations that has turned into like an ink block test.

776
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 3: That change is depending on what version of the story

777
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 3: that you buy. In version one, Blake Lively was being

778
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 3: sexually harassed on set by this like fake feminist male ally.

779
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,800
Speaker 4: Who was actually an abuser.

780
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 3: In version two, Blake Lively is like this egomaniac who

781
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 3: is using her star power and like a list celebrity

782
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: network like her husband Ryan Reynolds from those Deadpool movies,

783
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 3: to control the narrative around her being a nightmare on

784
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: set and steamrolling everybody.

785
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 4: Else on this project.

786
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,280
Speaker 3: So Sam like you kind of similar to the Johnny

787
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 3: Depp and Amber Herd thing in some ways, I think,

788
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 3: depending on what silos of the Internet you are in,

789
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 3: you might be be algorithmically being given the idea that

790
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 3: the public sentiment leans one way or another, like on TikTok.

791
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: For whatever reason, my TikTok algorithm thinks I hate Blake

792
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: Lively and that I want to see like lots of

793
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 3: videos like pouring over every nuance in the ways in

794
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 3: which she.

795
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 4: Is a fraud, which is not true.

796
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 3: She's not someone who like I spend really any time

797
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: at all thinking about, but It's interesting that the algorithm

798
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: thinks like, oh, this is somebody who hates Blake Lively.

799
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 2: Right, I agree?

800
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: For some reason, I am getting all of the tea

801
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: on all the awful things that Blake Lively is and

802
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: all the people who hate her and why they hate her,

803
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I have never once. I don't know

804
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 1: if I've ever seen a Blake Lively movie. I don't

805
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: think I have.

806
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: If I of the Traveling Pants, no, okay, that's usually

807
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: the one people know like that or I will say,

808
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 3: say whatever you want to about Bla Lively the movie

809
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: A simple favor slaps.

810
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: She's great in that.

811
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 6: Did you get the tea on how much they hate

812
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 6: each other?

813
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 4: On that?

814
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 3: What I did see? I did see an interview where

815
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 3: who is the hair coastar in.

816
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: That Anna Kendrick right?

817
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 4: And Kendrick were they asking.

818
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 3: Her about Blake Live and she does have a very

819
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 3: weird response.

820
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: They hate each other and that's that's what I'm understood.

821
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: That's what they're telling me because they don't ever show

822
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: up together on the red carpet. So when I say,

823
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: my feed really feeds to the fact that I must

824
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: hate Lively when I don't know this person, and I'm like,

825
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: I like, not that I know any celebrity like that,

826
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: but I'm like, but I never, at one point have

827
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: I looked her up or like, she's not on my feet.

828
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 1: I don't look around all my like searches. I guess

829
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: the one time it was for the it ends with us.

830
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: Damn it.

831
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: Every time I research something for the show, it messes

832
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: me up.

833
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 6: But anyway, yeah, but.

834
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that is I'm I'm like, I guess we

835
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 1: really don't trust Blake Lively. We being a TikTok, Yeah,

836
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: my TikTok.

837
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 4: The same as you.

838
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: Like.

839
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: I was trying to get to the bottom of like

840
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 3: what was going on with this this Justin and Blake

841
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 3: thing and one of my cousins who I would like

842
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 3: lovingly describe as a normy and that she's not like

843
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: super online, She's not you know, deep in the depths

844
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: of like extremism or anything like that.

845
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 4: Like the way that I am my cousin is like, oh.

846
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 3: There's this black girl journalist who has really been following

847
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 3: the story and breaking it down. We will tag you

848
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: so you can figure out what's going on. That journalist

849
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 3: was Candace Owens, And.

850
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 4: I was like, what like what Like, I could.

851
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: Not believe that my cousins who were like not at

852
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 3: all in like, they're not people who are like pouring

853
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 3: over the minutia of what's happening on the Internet and

854
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 3: extremism the way that I am, Like, they're pretty offline whatever.

855
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:22,760
Speaker 4: Like I was like, how did.

856
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: You even get Candace Owens on your radar to be

857
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: like listening to her podcast or watching her YouTube? And

858
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: the reason is because she has introduced herself to a

859
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: brand new subset of listeners and audience by covering this

860
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 3: Blake Lively thing. So her coverage very clearly takes an

861
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,440
Speaker 3: anti Blake stance. As The Cut put it in a

862
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: piece called Candace Owens has gone mainstream quote, the right

863
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 3: wing commentator's coverage of the Blake Lively Justin Boldoni case

864
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 3: has reached millions of viewers. Owen's podcast was hours and

865
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: hours of analysis of the case, deep dives into court filings,

866
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 3: tabloid news stories, even Ryan Reynolds's recent appearance on Saturday

867
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 3: Night Lives fiftieth anniversary special. She's really been able to

868
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 3: go in and pinpoint discrepancies in some of the things

869
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 3: Blake Lively said. Rather than having us go through it

870
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 3: on our own. When Listener says, though she recognizes that

871
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: Owen seems to have a pro bowl Doni bias, she

872
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 3: doesn't care. Candace is urging us to look past the

873
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 3: fact that this is not a feminist issue at all,

874
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 3: that it's about getting justice for whoever is being wrong.

875
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 4: She's uniting the left and the right. So, I mean,

876
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 4: it's just like it is. I mean, on the one hand,

877
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 4: it seems.

878
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 3: Surprising that this like celebrity story would be the thing

879
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 3: that like would galvanize an audience of mostly women and

880
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: introduce Candace Owen's on who she is and her ideologies

881
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 3: and all of that to a new audience. But on

882
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 3: the other hand, like that's pretty much exactly what they do.

883
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 3: That what they did at the Daily Wired, Like nobody

884
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 3: was more obsessed with celebrity than people like Ben Shapiro.

885
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 3: They loved taking down woke Disney, woke Star Wars like

886
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 3: you had had a big few with Meg the Stallion Beyonce.

887
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 3: Like just because it's negative doesn't mean it's not sandom.

888
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: It's just like going in the other direction.

889
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: Right, Actually, we knew we need to say he had

890
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: a one sided being with him because they did not

891
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: get like it just makes me laugh. You know, the

892
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: other part of this was as much as my algorithm

893
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: wants to show me all the anti b Lively stuff

894
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: as well as all of the controversy, because yes, I

895
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,320
Speaker 1: would get updates about the SNL thing about how everybody

896
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: snubbed Brian Reynolds. I was like, did they.

897
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 6: Okay?

898
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: But like, interestingly I did get content not from Candis Owans,

899
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,280
Speaker 1: but other creators reminding me and everybody listening that Candice

900
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: Owans is a right winged fanatic and that they need

901
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: to be wary of the information she's giving about the

902
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 1: specific case.

903
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 3: Yes, so I think that's like why I wanted to

904
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 3: make this episode just as a general reminder of who

905
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 3: Candice opens is, and like we all love celebrity gossip,

906
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 3: I know I do, but like, let's just remember who

907
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,359
Speaker 3: she is and the source, and like she might want

908
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,919
Speaker 3: to rebrand herself, but let's just keep it at the front,

909
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 3: forefront of our minds who she is and what she's about,

910
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 3: And like, she really has exploded in popularity from this coverage.

911
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 3: You know, it's been attracting a lot more viewers beyond

912
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 3: her normal right wing extremist bace like you were saying, Sam,

913
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: It's like Nor means like my cousins. My cousins who

914
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 3: might not have any idea who she is. They just

915
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: think she's an entertainment journalist. All of this has meant

916
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 3: explosive growth and engagement for Owen's Here's how The Cut

917
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: put it in that piece. Since Owens started covering the

918
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 3: Lively Baldoni case, her YouTube channel has exploded in popularity,

919
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 3: allowing her to attract a much larger fan base than

920
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: the audience of hardcore conservatives. She is a mass over

921
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,440
Speaker 3: the years, each episode about Lively and Baldani racks up

922
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 3: at least one point five million views. In the past

923
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 3: month alone, Owens has a mass more than four hundred

924
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 3: and fifty thousand new subscribers on YouTube, and her total

925
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 3: video views have quadrupled since this time last year, according

926
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 3: to data from the analytics platform social Blade. Over the

927
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 3: past three months, her audience on YouTube has also started

928
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 3: skewing sixty five percent female, according to data provided by

929
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 3: a spokesperson, a market shift from her past fan base.

930
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 3: So this has all been great news for Owens and

931
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 3: where her audience used to be like men, you know

932
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: like probably like your brother right, like like right wing men.

933
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 3: By covering this story, she's really interacting a lot of women.

934
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 2: Oh my stomach kind of hurts. It is really interesting

935
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: that this came in with gamer Gate as well, because,

936
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 2: like we were saying, Gamergate was such a mess, and

937
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 2: there were so many men who would be like, see

938
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 2: this woman agrees with me, And I hate it because

939
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like, why can't I just want to have

940
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 2: a conversation about why I don't like this game, And

941
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 2: now you've made it into this woman agrees with me,

942
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,360
Speaker 2: and now you're using it to attract more women to

943
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: be like, see if we're on the if we are

944
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 2: correct and you are wrong. And so when you see

945
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 2: things like this where she started out with mostly men

946
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: and then she's attracting like all of these women, I

947
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: feel like it's worth asking why do you think this

948
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: took off for her?

949
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 3: This story so one I will say that, like Camus

950
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 3: actually is pretty interesting to listen to, Like I don't

951
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: agree with what she's saying, but she does, Like even

952
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 3: when she was a progressive blogger, she does have like

953
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: a point of view and a clear voice, and I

954
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: think that really comes through in her coverage of Blake Lively.

955
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 3: You know, she has this way of speaking that signals

956
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 3: to you like, oh, this person who's really breaking it down.

957
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 3: It's the same reason why things on TikTok, things like

958
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 3: story time or like I'm spilling the tea really holds

959
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 3: people's attention. I think that Candice really does know how

960
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 3: to do that one. I think the second kind of

961
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 3: gets at what you were saying, Annie, that we just

962
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,879
Speaker 3: love misogyny, and I think if that massogyny can be

963
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 3: laced with a threat of conspiracy, it's even better. Right,

964
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 3: Like social media platforms are always going to amplify things

965
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 3: like misogyny or massogynore racism or transphobia. I think all

966
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: of that is just baked into what it means to

967
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 3: show up on social media. And I think Owen's really,

968
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 3: in a savvy way, takes that a step further by

969
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: breaking all of this down, like she's explaining a conspiracy. Right,

970
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: So it's not so she's not just saying like, here's

971
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 3: my take on Blake Lively, or here's what's going on

972
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 3: with the Blake Lively case, or you know, here's why

973
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 3: even like here's why I don't like Blake Lively. She

974
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 3: has this tinge of like she's uncovering this dark truth

975
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 3: about this successful woman to take her down. Like, of

976
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 3: course that's going to take off. People love that. So

977
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: the fact that she's not just giving information about Blake Lively,

978
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: she's doing it in this way that's like, let's go

979
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 3: back through fifteen years of footage of her speaking and

980
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 3: dive through the minutia of everything that she's said on

981
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 3: camera to highlight the discrepancies, to show what a dark,

982
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: twisted person she is.

983
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 4: Like, of course people are gonna love that. And I

984
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 4: think that one of the reasons why people.

985
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 3: Like conspiracy theories is that it really does allow for

986
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 3: like fantasy and world building to become part of this coverage. Right,

987
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 3: Like Canvas's coverage of Blake Lively is wild because she

988
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 3: is a truly wild person. And so if you're someone

989
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 3: who was just like wants to get the brain rush

990
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,840
Speaker 3: of like going down a deep rabbit hole, whether or

991
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 3: not it's true or whether or not it's like made up,

992
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 3: that's gonna be enticing for you.

993
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:54,359
Speaker 4: You know.

994
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 3: As Owens herself puts it, she does not follow a

995
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: quote traditional style of reporting.

996
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 4: That's putting it pretty lightly.

997
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 3: She will amplify rumors, right, Like she once even read

998
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 3: a letter that she said was from Ryan Reynolds's acting

999
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: coach from when he was twelve years old, and that

1000
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 3: acting coach allegedly said Ryan Reynolds was obnoxious as a

1001
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: twelve year old. Like there are side characters and stuff,

1002
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 3: Like she really fleshes out this world of what she's saying.

1003
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 4: Is it real? Is it accurate? Who cares?

1004
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 3: Of course people are coming to hear that tea on

1005
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: a story they're invested in, right.

1006
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: I feel like though, like this is definitely in her alley,

1007
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 1: in her willhouse, in that this fees into the Hollywood

1008
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: demon's kind of trope as well as like her response

1009
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: to the Me Too movement, I know, like she was

1010
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: definitely anti feminist in that movement as well. Like this

1011
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: kind of all fees into that perfectly for her.

1012
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 3: Yes, So I think that's another reason why this has

1013
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 3: taken off, Because I think that, like there is something

1014
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 3: inherently inviting about the power of like making a contrarian

1015
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 3: stance on something like after Me Too, lots of women

1016
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: got engagement by taking a contrarian stance. Ironically, Blake Lively

1017
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 3: praised both Woody Island and Harvey Weinstein. That last one

1018
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 3: is going to be interesting to note for later. So

1019
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: I think there is this attitude where like going against convention.

1020
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 3: You know, if if there's a convention that says we

1021
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 3: automatically got to support the woman in any situation, it

1022
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 3: probably makes people who are turning to Owen's as coverage

1023
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,359
Speaker 3: and her breakdowns feel like free thinkers who are going

1024
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 3: against the grain and like willing to take an unpopular

1025
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: opinion which feels good, Like it feels good to think

1026
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 3: of yourself in that way, which then could obviously connects

1027
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 3: to some of her more like odious stances about trans

1028
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: people and women and Jewish people, like you, if you

1029
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 3: can get people introduced to the idea that it's like

1030
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 3: good to take an unpopular opinion when you're talking about

1031
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: a celebrity that people don't like, imagine how then you

1032
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,800
Speaker 3: can walk them down to be like, isn't and also

1033
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 3: don't you not like trans and also don't you think

1034
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: women should not have jobs? And also don't you not

1035
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 3: like Jewish people? Like it's like kind of all coming

1036
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 3: from the same place.

1037
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so she's very engaging and she it's sort

1038
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: of like you know, here's some celebrity gossip. Let me

1039
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 2: give you this conspiracy theory and also kind of this

1040
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: hate on the side. Right, But it's been very successful.

1041
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:33,359
Speaker 2: But has has the new audience changed her stances at all?

1042
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:34,720
Speaker 4: That's a great question.

1043
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: According to Owens, she has not really changed her views

1044
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 3: despite her rebrand. She says, in terms of my perspective,

1045
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 3: I haven't changed anything. I've been anti me too since

1046
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 3: long before it was cool. When it comes to the

1047
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 3: which like oh as like feminist media makers, do you

1048
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 3: think like I just I'm so curious about that take

1049
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 3: of likes of all just the assumption that like it's

1050
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 3: cool to be anti.

1051
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 4: Me too right now.

1052
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know.

1053
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 4: I just have a lot of questions.

1054
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: This is definitely the whole like red pill level of

1055
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 1: women trying to be the I hate this term, but

1056
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: like the pick me like we're like I it's now

1057
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: cool because the boys like me like it. It doesn't

1058
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 1: want it sounds like most women who have been through

1059
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: these processes or her survivors would never say it's like

1060
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,919
Speaker 1: the level people. I'm not even just like survivors, people

1061
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: with conscious like like that in general, that's not a

1062
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: that's not a statement you want. That's not a winning statement.

1063
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 4: It's not that's a good way to put it. It's

1064
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:41,360
Speaker 4: not a winning statement.

1065
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 3: And when it comes to the success of the content

1066
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 3: that she's made around Blake Lively, Kenda says that she

1067
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 3: thinks her new fans, especially the ones coming from the left,

1068
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 3: have quote just kind of gotten wise to the fact that.

1069
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 4: Maybe women lie just like men.

1070
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 3: And do you Ken, do you want to know what

1071
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 3: her next big issue is going to be like after

1072
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,799
Speaker 3: she moves on from Blake Lively, She's already signaled to

1073
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 3: what it is.

1074
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: Oh really, because we're still in the middle of this.

1075
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 1: The lawsuit hasn't been settled, but okay what is?

1076
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,879
Speaker 3: But she's already looking I mean like it's not gonna

1077
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 3: last forever. She's already got a sense of like where

1078
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: she's going next. Her next bigu she was going to

1079
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 3: be championing Harvey Weinstein, the disgraced filmmaker that really did

1080
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 3: kickstart the Me Too movement. She's been interviewing him by

1081
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: phone since twenty twenty two. Here's how the Hollywood Reporter

1082
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: explains it. Kansas's takeaway is that while Harvey Weinstein is

1083
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 3: an immorl man. He's also a victim of the justice system. Owens,

1084
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 3: a long time and persistent critic of the me too movement,

1085
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 3: of which Harvey, of which the Harvey Weinstein saga served

1086
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: as the watershed, noted that quote, I've always had faith

1087
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 3: in our court system, and now that's beginning to change.

1088
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 3: Now I'm wondering if our courtrooms have been politicized.

1089
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 4: I love that.

1090
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 3: It's Harvey Weinstein being convicted that She's like, are.

1091
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 4: The core It's not on the money?

1092
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: I no, I'm sure there's some of the serial killers

1093
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: that she should represent as much like this is okay

1094
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: to be fair, she has has she has her fingers

1095
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 1: on the pulse in that knowing this is gonna drive

1096
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: up attention, like she is gonna get the publicity that

1097
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: she wants with that, Like how bigger could you go

1098
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: outside of being like I'm gonna go dig up Hitler

1099
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: and interview him and tell him I miss him like

1100
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: that that's the yeah, you know, I.

1101
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 4: Mean, she she agrees with you.

1102
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 3: She said that she's putting out a series called Harvey Speaks,

1103
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 3: and when asked about it, she said, quote, it will

1104
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 3: explode the world.

1105
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 4: That's a direct quote.

1106
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 2: Oh my God.

1107
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:55,880
Speaker 6: She's a businesswoman for sure.

1108
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, we all have that to look forward to.

1109
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 3: I mean again, like she sad, like I cannot deny

1110
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 3: that this is smart, Like I don't. I don't agree

1111
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 3: with it. I don't think it's good. I don't think

1112
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 3: it's good for the world. But like, I think she

1113
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:14,040
Speaker 3: has her finger on the pulse of what is actually

1114
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 3: going to be projects to put out that will capture

1115
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 3: people's attention, for.

1116
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 4: Better or for worse. And I think she's really got something.

1117
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 4: She's like cracked into something.

1118
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, for better or worse. Indeed she has. And you know,

1119
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 2: every time we talk to you, Bridget, we always talk

1120
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 2: about how the algorithms and so many of our social

1121
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: media pushes this content up and how we engage in it.

1122
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 2: So she's figured it out. She's figured that out.

1123
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 4: I think you're exactly right.

1124
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: And I think, like that's the so what of this

1125
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 3: story is that you know, Candice has so many other

1126
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 3: things going on, Like she's pivoting into other kinds of

1127
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 3: program she's branding out into doing a book club for

1128
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,880
Speaker 3: paying subscribers and a fitness program, And I think that

1129
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 3: I do I believe her when she says that she's

1130
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 3: not like rebranding. I think rather she is trying to

1131
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 3: rebrand her followers. These new followers, many of whom are

1132
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 3: just like women, who are interested in this scandal. I

1133
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 3: believe that the point is for them to be walked

1134
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,479
Speaker 3: down a pipeline that includes her other extremist attitudes, really

1135
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 3: using this Blake Lively celebrity scandal as the hook. And

1136
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,479
Speaker 3: I think because celebrity stories, especially ones that involve women,

1137
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 3: are so often just like considered fluff, so a lot

1138
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 3: of people who care about like extremist content or ideology

1139
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 3: might not be paying that much attention to hell, these

1140
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 3: stories that you might see on US Weekly are tapping

1141
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 3: into those ideologies and un leading those ideologies on a

1142
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 3: brand new audience. And so I think that's especially concerning

1143
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 3: when you're talking about things like celebrity, because you know,

1144
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 3: when I'm reading celebrity scandals or like reading US Weekly,

1145
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 3: I might not be primed to have my like BS

1146
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 3: detector on and up because it just is, like you

1147
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 3: think of it as a less charge space. And so

1148
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 3: I think that it really can be more dangerous because

1149
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 3: it lends itself to people being more susceptible to ideological content.

1150
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: They might not be expecting without even realizing it.

1151
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 4: And like, I think it's very easy for Candace Owens to.

1152
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 3: Go from like saying Blake Lively is lying to like

1153
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 3: women lie to, women can't be trusted to like women

1154
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,439
Speaker 3: should not have jobs, which I'm not just like pulling

1155
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 3: that out of nowhere. That is a stance that Candace

1156
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,880
Speaker 3: Owens has explicitly advocated for, that women should not have employment,

1157
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 3: they cannot be trusted with work, despite herself obviously being

1158
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 3: a working woman. So like, basically, you just can't trust her.

1159
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 3: She's not someone that you can trust. Don't let her

1160
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 3: rebrand as a celebrity journalist fool you if somebody tags

1161
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 3: you in a video of hers, to be like.

1162
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 4: Oh, she's really breaking it down.

1163
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 3: Just remember that she is trying to soften what it

1164
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 3: is that she advocates for and believes in, and like

1165
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 3: we shouldn't let her do that. We should really remember

1166
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 3: who she is and what she's about, because she's made

1167
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 3: it very clear.

1168
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 1: Right, I Mean, she's definitely on the same lines of

1169
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: what we've seen as a new generation talking about young

1170
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: men on podcasts and how they've been able to influence

1171
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: young men, like this is coming in as influencing young women.

1172
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean, just today, I'm seeing a lot of content

1173
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,479
Speaker 1: about how young the younger generations are talking are being

1174
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: red pilled, as they would say, which is fitting here,

1175
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: and things like the soft life content being a beginning

1176
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of young women not realizing that getting

1177
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: that kind of brand. We've talked about that with like

1178
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 1: self care, We've talked about that with yoga and the clean,

1179
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: clean lifestyle type of thing. How that easily becomes a

1180
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: pipeline for the conservative right wing community. And this is

1181
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: kind of that big sway except that we see her

1182
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,240
Speaker 1: branding and we know who she is, but if you

1183
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: don't know from the jump her stance, this is definitely

1184
01:02:55,240 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: a worrisome tactic because we know things like true crime

1185
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: Time and celebrity gossip, like it's geared towards young women,

1186
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 1: it's geared towards women in general, and they also spend

1187
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 1: a lot of money and they spend a lot of

1188
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: time in it, investigating and taking part of it. So

1189
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 1: it's really worries something like it is comical, as we

1190
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: were talking at the beginning, like what is this to

1191
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: very concerning and understanding that when we let this stuff go,

1192
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: like you were saying, like, this is fluff content, but

1193
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: in actuality is feeding into a conservative ideal that becomes

1194
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 1: mainstream and it's usually really dangerous.

1195
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:28,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1196
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 3: So when people are like, oh, I just want to

1197
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 3: listen to my true crime podcast, I don't want to

1198
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 3: get political, or.

1199
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 4: I just want to read about celebrities.

1200
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 3: I don't want to get political, I hate to break

1201
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 3: it to you, all of that stuff is political.

1202
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 4: All that is all political, and like it is.

1203
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: It can be harnessed to shift attitudes of people who

1204
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 3: are being like, oh, this is not political into more

1205
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 3: extremest ways of thinking. And so if you are a

1206
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 3: savvy consumer of media, or a savvy consumer of anything,

1207
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 3: whether it's true crime content or celebrity content, or yoga

1208
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 3: or wellness content or of that, we really got to

1209
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 3: be primed and thinking about the ways as content can

1210
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,880
Speaker 3: be so easily weaponized to supread a certain ideology that

1211
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 3: we might not want to get mixed up in.

1212
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Oh every time you come here, Bridget, I'm like,

1213
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 2: we have fifteen million other topics we need to talk about.

1214
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 2: But thank you, thank you as always for coming on

1215
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,840
Speaker 2: and taking the time. We love to have you. Where

1216
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 2: can the good listeners find you well.

1217
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:31,960
Speaker 3: You can listen to my podcast on iHeartRadio called There

1218
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 3: Arnal Girls.

1219
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 4: On the Internet.

1220
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 3: You can check me out on Instagram at bridget Marie

1221
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 3: in DC and uh yeah, we'd love to hang out there.

1222
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: Yes and go do that listeners. If you haven't already,

1223
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,479
Speaker 2: you can find us. You can email us at Hello,

1224
01:04:47,640 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 2: Stuffnever Told You dot com. You can find us on

1225
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 2: Blue Sky at Momstuff podcast, or in Instagram and TikTok

1226
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 2: at stuff We Never Told You for also on YouTube.

1227
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 2: We have a t public store and we have a

1228
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

1229
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Christine or executive ducer

1230
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 2: Myne and a contributor Joey. Thank you, Thanks to you

1231
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 2: for listening. Stuff whe Never Told You is production by

1232
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 2: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you

1233
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: can check out the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts wherever

1234
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite ship