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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: It's cool people who did cool stuff. That's right, it

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Speaker 2: is cool people who did cool stuff. You are weekly

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Speaker 2: podcast that comes out twice a week. And why do

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Speaker 2: we call it weekly? Because I've somehow got it in

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Speaker 2: my head that that's the way to introduce the show.

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Speaker 2: This is a rewind episode where we are talking about

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Speaker 2: Baba fucking Yaga. Let's go hello and welcome to Cool

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Speaker 2: People Who Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy.

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Speaker 2: And this week is Spooky Week. Actually last week was

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Speaker 2: Spooky Week, but I kind of fucked up the timing

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Speaker 2: of a three part episode. So this week is Spooky Week.

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Speaker 2: And instead of what I usually do, tell you about

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Speaker 2: some cool actual person from history, this week I'm telling

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Speaker 2: you about a cool person from folklore. My guest today

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Speaker 2: is Jamie Loftus, who herself is a creature out of folklore.

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Speaker 1: What are you?

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Speaker 2: The personification of a gun? I can't remember, Jamie?

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Speaker 3: Oh what was that?

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Speaker 4: I Actually it's been heavily it's been hotly debated over

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Speaker 4: over time.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I let people interpret it for themselves. It's not for

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Speaker 4: me to say, as as someone who's not a real person,

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Speaker 4: more of an idea than a person.

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Speaker 2: It's not for me to say, Okay, that's fair. It's

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Speaker 2: up for the listener to decide.

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Speaker 3: What have you been the what have you been? Popularly

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Speaker 3: interpreted to be the personification of Margaret?

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Speaker 2: Oh lord? Well, what's fun about that is I think

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Speaker 2: people actually do do that to me. But then they, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, they pick like one aspect of your personality

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Speaker 2: and run with it. And it used to be the

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Speaker 2: like the like vagabond figure, right, like it's the like

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Speaker 2: perpetual traveler. And then it was like the girl who

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Speaker 2: lives in a black house that she built in the forest,

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Speaker 2: and like, both of those are like true things about me.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I see where they're coming from.

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Speaker 1: To be fair, you did write a chapter in your

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Speaker 1: latest book about a girl turned witch that lives in

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Speaker 1: a house in the forest.

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Speaker 2: That's true, that's true.

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Speaker 1: So you did kind to write your own folklore.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like something I would do, fair enough.

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Speaker 4: I've cultivated people often think that I am extremely chaotic

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Speaker 4: and don't have any semblance of control over my life.

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Speaker 3: But that's not true.

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Speaker 1: That is completely that is factually inaccurate.

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Speaker 2: You're far too productive for that to be true.

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Speaker 3: I have my shit together just enough, thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: But here we are.

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Speaker 3: Here, we are two or three women who represent ideas

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Speaker 3: and are projected upon constantly.

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Speaker 1: Sophie ly even my folklore. I think I think you

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Speaker 1: wrote my folklore. He told me I was the pope

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Speaker 1: of podcasting. No, it's probably just like the weird parasocial

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Speaker 1: folklore that all I do is say no, which is

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Speaker 1: not true personification of sometimes absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so the queen of reined in.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, Jamie, when you pointed out that, like, also professionally,

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Speaker 2: we are like that is the odd thing about doing

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Speaker 2: this kind of work is that you're like, yeah, oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: romanticize my life. You'll buy my.

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Speaker 4: Books, right, You're like, it's not it's not net negative

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Speaker 4: and it doesn't always even bother me.

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Speaker 3: But sometimes you're just like, well, I know what I'm like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And for me, nobody even knows what my job

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Speaker 1: is and that's fun and I'm not telling any of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, one person whose job we do know. The

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Speaker 2: audio engineering is done by Ian Yeah, and the theme

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Speaker 2: music was written by unwoman.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And where we last left off, we talked about who

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Speaker 2: Bobby Yagau was, about her chicken hut and her bony legs,

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Speaker 2: and how she ate chill and who misbehaved. Today we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about what she means and where she

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Speaker 2: comes from. But first another story.

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Speaker 3: I'm excited. I literally I have my blanket here too,

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Speaker 3: and I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: Excellent, Okay. This story is called by Command of Prince Daniel. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: a great name for a story.

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Speaker 3: Okay, okay, as.

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Speaker 2: Translated yeah by Leonard Arthur Magnus, also about a hundred

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Speaker 2: years ago. I didn't forgot to write them the date

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Speaker 2: I picked the public domain translations. This is what happened.

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Speaker 4: I'm inherently mistrustful of someone who actively goes by three names,

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Speaker 4: so this will be interesting, that's fair.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to come up with the counter example,

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Speaker 2: but I don't have one off the top of my head.

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Speaker 3: Three namers generally fall into the buckets of serial killers.

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Speaker 4: Or child stars, and you know, and so you're just like,

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Speaker 4: this is going to be a mixed bag.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Once upon a time there was an aged queen

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Speaker 2: who had a son and a daughter who were fine,

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Speaker 2: sturdy children. But there was also an yeah coming in hard.

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Speaker 2: But there was also an evil witch who could not

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Speaker 2: bear them, and she began to lay plots how she

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Speaker 2: might contrive their overthrow. I think this is not even

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Speaker 2: bubb whatever. I'm not spoling anything. So she went to

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Speaker 2: the old queen and said, dear Gossip, that must be

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Speaker 2: the queen's name. I don't know. I am giving you

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Speaker 2: a ring. Put it on your son's hand, and then

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Speaker 2: he will be rich and generous. Only he must marry

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Speaker 2: the maiden whom this ring fits. The mother believed her

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Speaker 2: and was extremely glad, and at her death bade her

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Speaker 2: son marry only the woman whom the ring fitted. Time

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Speaker 2: went by and the boy grew up. He became a man,

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Speaker 2: and he looked at all the maidens, very many of

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Speaker 2: them he liked, only as soon as he put the

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Speaker 2: ring on their finger. It was either too broad or

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Speaker 2: too narrow. So he traveled from village to village, from

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Speaker 2: town to town, and searched out all the fair damsels.

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Speaker 2: But he could not find his chosen one, and he

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Speaker 2: returned home in a reflective mood. What is the mother?

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Speaker 2: What is the matter? Brother? His sister asked him. So

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Speaker 2: he told her of his trouble, explained his sorrow. What

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Speaker 2: a wonderful ring you have said the sister, let me

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Speaker 2: try it on.

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Speaker 3: No, hey, bro, that wedding ring, Why don't you slap

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Speaker 3: it on this finger? No problems here? Yeah, meanwhile, the

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Speaker 3: water system is poisoned. There's all these policy issues. While

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Speaker 3: this guy's been fucking off putting rings on the random people.

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Speaker 3: People are dying. Yeah, meanwhile, we have some incest in progress.

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Speaker 3: This is disgusting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is clearly an HBO show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She tried it on her finger, and the ring was

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Speaker 2: as firmly fixed as if it had been soldered on,

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Speaker 2: as though it had been made for her. Oh, sister,

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Speaker 2: you are my chosen bride and you must be my wife.

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Speaker 2: What a horrible idea brother, That would be a sin.

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Speaker 2: But the brother would not listen to a word she said.

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Speaker 2: He danced for joy and told her to make ready

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Speaker 2: for the wedding. She wept bitter tears, went in front

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Speaker 2: of the house and sat on the threshold and let

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Speaker 2: her tears flow. Two old beggars came up, and she

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Speaker 2: gave them to eat and drink. They asked what her

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Speaker 2: trouble was, and she needs must tell the two. Now

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Speaker 2: weep no more, but do what we say. Make up

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Speaker 2: four dolls and put them in four corners of your room.

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Speaker 2: After your brother calls you in for the betrothal, go

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Speaker 2: and if he calls you into the bridle chamber, ask

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Speaker 2: for time, trust in God, and follow our advice, and

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Speaker 2: the beggars departed.

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Speaker 3: We need less doll based solutions in this world. Ill

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Speaker 3: doll into girl. I mean, look, as the owner of

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Speaker 3: many dolls, they have not solved a damn problem, and

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Speaker 3: in fact, they've been an active deterrent. They maybe caused

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Speaker 3: more problems than they've solved for me, thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: You mean, because when people come into your house, it's

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Speaker 2: just dolls staring at you from the wall.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, people don't like that, it turns out, Margaret, But

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Speaker 3: you people come into your house, they see nine thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars and they're like, interesting, I just got so busy

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Speaker 3: and sick.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what we should try is we should trade

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Speaker 2: and you can become a sword girl for a while

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Speaker 2: and I'll become a doll girl for a while.

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Speaker 4: And we'll just, yeah, like walking a mile in each

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Speaker 4: other's shoes would be useful, because the peaks and valleys

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Speaker 4: of being a doll girl are I feel like I've

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Speaker 4: really lived, okay, and I want to know what it

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Speaker 4: feels like to be a sword girl, also a horse girl.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do want to be a horse girl. But

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Speaker 2: horses don't respect my authority and they go where they want.

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Speaker 2: And it's hard.

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Speaker 3: I've been saying that for years. Horses are so fucking disrespectful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The brother and the sister were betrothed, and he went

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Speaker 2: into the room and cried out, sister mine, come in.

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Speaker 2: I will come in a moment, brother, I am only

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Speaker 2: taking off my earrings, and the dolls in the four

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Speaker 2: corners began to sing, Cucko, Prince Danillo, Cucko Gioverilio. Cucko

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Speaker 2: tis a brother, Cucko, wedd's his sister. Cucko. Earth must

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Speaker 2: be split asunder Cucko and the sister lie hid under.

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Speaker 2: Then the earth rose up and slowly started to swallow

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Speaker 2: the sister, and the brother cried out again, does she

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Speaker 2: do oh it? Yeah, you're here?

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Speaker 3: Okay, Sorry, I'm Lucia.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, and the brother cried out again, sister mine,

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Speaker 2: come into the feather bed in a minute, Brother, I

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Speaker 2: am undoing my girdle, and the dolls began to sing, Cucko,

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Speaker 2: Prince Danilo Cucko Gioverio Coo cootis a brother. Cuckoo weds

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Speaker 2: his sister Cuckoo. Earth must be split asunder cuckoo, and

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Speaker 2: the sister lie hid under only she had vanished now

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Speaker 2: all but her head for good. And the brother cried

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Speaker 2: out again, come into the feather bed in a minute, brother,

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Speaker 2: I am taking off my shoes. And the dolls went

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Speaker 2: on cooing, and she vanished under the earth, and the

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Speaker 2: brother kept crying and crying and crying, And when she

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Speaker 2: never returned, he became angry and ran out to fetch her.

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Speaker 2: He could see nothing but the dolls, which kept singing,

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Speaker 2: so he knocked off their heads and threw them into

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Speaker 2: the stove.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I actually think I've maybe done this. Had four

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Speaker 4: dolls in the corner. Well man slowly gets more and

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Speaker 4: more furious.

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Speaker 2: And then just fucking bolt. It's like, where are you nothing? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The sister went farther under the earth, and she saw

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Speaker 2: little Hut standing on cock's feet and turning round. Hut,

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Speaker 2: she cried out, stand as you should with your back

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Speaker 2: to the wood. Exactly how there's a forest under the

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Speaker 2: earth is not explained. Just to be clear, I like

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Speaker 2: the idea. I know, right, yeah, it's very goblining, and

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Speaker 2: I approve of all things goblining, especially my dog, who

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Speaker 2: is a goblin. So the hut stopped and the doors opened,

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Speaker 2: and a fair maiden looked out. She was knitting a

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Speaker 2: cloth with gold and silver thread. She greeted the guest

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Speaker 2: friendly and kindly, but sighed and said, oh, my darling,

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Speaker 2: my sister, I am so glad to see you. I

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Speaker 2: shall be glad to look after you and care for

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Speaker 2: you as long as my mother is not here, But

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Speaker 2: as soon as she flies in, woe to you and me,

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Speaker 2: for she is a witch. When she heard this, the

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Speaker 2: maiden was frightened, but could not fly anywhere. I think

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Speaker 2: means like runaway.

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Speaker 3: Okay. I was like, well, yeah, she's a person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly like I can't fly anywhere either, especially not

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Speaker 2: during COVID anyway, okay, So she sat down and began

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Speaker 2: helping the other maiden at her work. So they chattered

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Speaker 2: along and soon at the right time before the mother came,

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Speaker 2: the fair maiden turned her guest into a needle because

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Speaker 2: she's totally not a witch herself, turned her guest into

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Speaker 2: a needle, stuck her into the bassoom, and put it

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Speaker 2: on one side. But scarcely had this been done when

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Speaker 2: Babba Yaga came in now.

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Speaker 3: And then everyone's cheering everyone at midnight screenings, like, yes,

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Speaker 3: there she is, This is why we come here. Oh

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Speaker 3: exactly what a rush she's back?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, my fair daughter, my little child, tell me

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Speaker 2: at once, why does the room smell so of Russian bones?

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Speaker 3: Classic Bobba you go, I know, sniffing that blood.

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Speaker 2: Mother, There have been strange men journey in past who

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Speaker 2: wanted a drink of water? Why did you not keep them?

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Speaker 2: They were too old, mother, much too tough a snack

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Speaker 2: for your teeth. Henceforth enticed them all into the house

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Speaker 2: and never let them go. I must now go get

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Speaker 2: about again and look out for other booty. As soon

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Speaker 2: as ever she had gone, the maidens set to work again, knitting,

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Speaker 2: talking and laughing. Then the witch came into the room

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Speaker 2: once more. She sniffed about the house and said, daughter,

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Speaker 2: my sweet daughter, my darling, tell me at once, why

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Speaker 2: does it smell so of Russian bones? Old men who

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Speaker 2: were just passing by, who wanted to warm their hands.

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Speaker 2: I did my best to keep them, but they would

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Speaker 2: not stay. So the witch was angry, scolded her daughter

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Speaker 2: and flew away. In the meantime, her unknown guest was

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Speaker 2: sitting in the bassooon. Someone is listening to.

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Speaker 4: It's bassoom, but I keep thinking bassoon and yeah makes

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Speaker 4: me laugh.

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Speaker 2: And someone who's listening knows this word and is like,

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Speaker 2: what the fuck is wrong with you? You had two

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Speaker 2: days to learn how to pronounce it. The maidens once

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Speaker 2: more set to work. Yeah, I do like the bassoon.

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Speaker 2: Okay anyway, And maidens once more set to work, so

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Speaker 2: laughed and thought how they might escape the evil witch.

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Speaker 2: This time they forgot how the hours were flying by,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly the witch stood in front of them, Darling,

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Speaker 2: tell me where have the Russian bones? Crept away? Here?

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Speaker 2: My mother, a fair maiden is waiting for you. Daughter,

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Speaker 2: mind darling, heat the oven quickly, make it very hot.

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Speaker 3: If this were like a realistic story, Bobby AGA's daughter

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Speaker 3: would be like, Mom, stop by total, I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: Russian bones.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, it's kind of weird.

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Speaker 3: So embarrassing. I have a friend over.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah. So the maiden looked up and was frightened

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Speaker 2: to death. Where Bobby a Ga with the wooden legs

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Speaker 2: stood in front of her and to the ceiling rose

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Speaker 2: her nose. So the mother and daughter carried firewood in

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Speaker 2: logs of oak and maple, made the oven ready till

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Speaker 2: the flame shot up merrily. Then the witch took her

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Speaker 2: broad shovel and said, in a friendly voice, go and

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Speaker 2: sit on my shovel, fair child. So the maiden obeyed,

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Speaker 2: and the bobby Aga was going to shove her into

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Speaker 2: the oven, but the girl stuck her feet against the

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Speaker 2: wall of the hearth. Will you sit still, girl? But

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Speaker 2: it was not any good. Bobby Aga could not put

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Speaker 2: the maiden into the oven, so she became angry, thrust

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Speaker 2: her back and said, you are simply wasting time. Just

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Speaker 2: look at me and see how it is done. Down

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Speaker 2: she sat on the shovel with her legs nicely trussed together.

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Speaker 2: So the maiden instantly put her into the oven, shut

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Speaker 2: the oven door and slammed her in. Took their knitting

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Speaker 2: with them, and their comb and their brush. Ran away.

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Speaker 4: God, I do love the confidence that it takes to

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Speaker 4: be like this is how you sit on a shovel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah when you're gonna get yeah, yeah, loving it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. They ran hard away, but when they turned round

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Speaker 2: there was bobby Aga running after them. She had set

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Speaker 2: herself free some real axe mocking a shit in this Yeah, yeah,

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00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,320
Speaker 2: hoo hoo, they're run the two. So the maidens, in

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Speaker 2: their need, threw the brush away and a thick, dense coppice,

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Speaker 2: which is like a bunch of trees a rose which

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Speaker 2: she could not break through. So she stretched out her claws,

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Speaker 2: scratched herself away through, and again ran after them. Whither

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Speaker 2: should the two poor girls flee? They flung their comb

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Speaker 2: behind them, and a dark, murky oak forest grew up

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Speaker 2: so thick no fly could have ever flown its way through.

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00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 2: Then the witch wetted her teeth and set to work.

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Speaker 2: She went on, tearing up one tree after the other

305
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Speaker 2: by the roots, and she made herself away and again

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00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 2: set out after them, and almost caught up with them.

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Speaker 4: I like this one. It was Vasoline or whatever her

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00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 4: name is. Yeah, totally Vasiline, the sexy.

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Speaker 3: What was that?

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Speaker 2: What was it, Vasilie said, the beautiful Yeah, yeah, yeah, Vaseline, sexy. Yeah, basically. Now,

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Speaker 2: the two girls had no strength left to run, so

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Speaker 2: threw the cloth behind them, and a broad sea stretched out, deep,

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Speaker 2: wide and fiery. The old woman rose up, wanted to

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Speaker 2: fly over it, but fell into the fire and was

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Speaker 2: burned to.

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Speaker 3: Death again with the burning, I know.

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Speaker 2: The poor maiden's poor homeless doves did not know whither

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Speaker 2: to go. They sat down in ordered to rest, and

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Speaker 2: a man came and asked them who they were. He

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00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,880
Speaker 2: told his master that the two little birds had fluttered

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00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 2: onto his estate, the two fairest damsels, similar in form

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00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 2: and shape, eye for eye and line for line. One

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00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 2: was his sister, but which was it?

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00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:46,520
Speaker 1: Wait?

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Speaker 3: Is this?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, the master is the prince.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: One was his sister, but which was it? He could

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Speaker 2: not guess. So the master went to both of them.

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Speaker 2: One was a sister, which the servant had not lied.

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Speaker 2: He did not know them, and she was angry with

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Speaker 2: him and did not say. What shall I do, asked

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00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,160
Speaker 2: the master. Master. I will pour blood into an ew skin,

335
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 2: put that under my armpit, and talk to the maiden.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime, I will go and I will stab

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Speaker 2: you in the side with my knife, and then blood

338
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Speaker 2: will flow, and your sister will betray herself as to

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Speaker 2: who she is.

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Speaker 3: Nothing could go wrong with this plan. This plan is

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Speaker 3: air tight.

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Speaker 2: No notes, very well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 2: As soon as it was said, it was done. The

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00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 2: servant stabbed his master in the side, and the blood

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00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 2: poured forth and he fell down. And Margaret isn't the

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00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,440
Speaker 2: one who wrote the story. So then his sister flung

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00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,360
Speaker 2: herself over him and cried out, oh, my brother, my darling.

349
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,240
Speaker 2: Then her brother jumped up again, healthy and well.

350
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Speaker 3: Margaret, if the moral of this story is she should

351
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 3: have fucked her brother, I'm gonna I'm gonna break my eepad.

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00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 2: Okay, he embraced his sister, gave her a proper husband,

353
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,639
Speaker 2: and he married her friend.

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00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:21,000
Speaker 1: So it's not Ga Thrones, got it, got it for

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00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: the ring fitted her just as well, and they all

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Speaker 1: lived splendidly and happily.

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Speaker 3: Okay, they did not stick the landing on that one.

358
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Speaker 4: I'll be perfectly honest that that that one was going great,

359
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 4: and and then it really turned to dog ship at

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Speaker 4: the end.

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Speaker 3: But like, oh, actually this ring also fits my friend,

362
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 3: so you can have sex with her. And my brother

363
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 3: was so come to the feather bed my ass. That's wow,

364
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 3: what a what a can And and also Bobby gone

365
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 3: without Bobby, Bobby Yaga.

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00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 2: Everyone says Bobby Yaga. And then I just like watched

367
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 2: a Russian cartoon where she's like, I'm Babbyaga and I'm like, okay, cool, that's.

368
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 4: What I'm gonna try and say, let's go with that one. Yeah,

369
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 4: but she once again disappeared in the middle of the story.

370
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she's no one asks how there's a joke here.

371
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 2: I don't know how to do it. Okay. I wanted

372
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 2: to read this one because sometimes babby a ga is

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00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 2: what's called in folklore stories a donor, like someone who

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00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 2: will give you the stuff you need, right, like a

375
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,919
Speaker 2: skull with the fire to burn your slightly wicked steps

376
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 2: to stepmother, right. And sometimes she's just a cannibal on

377
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 2: a chicken hut. And I wanted to give you a

378
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,399
Speaker 2: taste valid Yeah, exactly, give you a taste of the

379
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,959
Speaker 2: cannibal version. So who the fuck is she? Where did

380
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,440
Speaker 2: she come from? We'll talk about her name we mentioned

381
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: a little bit about it last time, and dig a

382
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: little bit more into it. The simplest but sort of

383
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 2: inaccurate translation is grandmother witch baba meaning grandmother short for babushka.

384
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 2: No one's really presented a compelling case about the etymology

385
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 2: of yaka, but people have done it, and baba truly

386
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 2: means grandmother in tons of Slavic languages. My own Irish

387
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 2: grandmother went by Baba, which is not Irish at all.

388
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: It might actually just be my family being weird, but

389
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 2: maybe it's spread elsewhere. I don't really know.

390
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 3: It trips off that.

391
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Speaker 4: I was as you were saying that, I realized that

392
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 4: I've written on a show where there's the main grandmother

393
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 4: characters called Baba, and I was like, wow, my memory

394
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 4: is bad.

395
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 2: One of the things I found really interesting I found

396
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: at least one reference to that Baba as a meaning

397
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: grandmother is probably derived from the Old Russian baba meaning midwife,

398
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: sorceress or fortune teller. So it's actually like grandma means witch,

399
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: not the other way around or whatever.

400
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 3: Okay, And I don't hate that. I don't hate that.

401
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,959
Speaker 2: So basically her names means Grannyaga the witch, as far

402
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 2: as I can tell. As a folkloric figure, there's actually

403
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: no known origin. There's a lot of guesses, and I

404
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 2: have some guesses as well that well, they're not my

405
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 2: own guesses. They're the guesses that I prefer aesthetically and

406
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 2: or I mean, seem more convincing out of the stuff

407
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: that I've read about it.

408
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 4: My question is, like, in the chronology of Witches, do

409
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 4: you know, like, where where does she come Is she

410
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 4: like an early folkloric witch character, or somewhere in the middle,

411
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,679
Speaker 4: or I guess there's just been so many witch figures

412
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,879
Speaker 4: throughout history. I don't really know where she falls.

413
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 2: I haven't done. I actually, at some point want to

414
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: do a more of a deep dive into the history

415
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: of witches. And I have like the stuff that I've

416
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,479
Speaker 2: read about it and stuff, but that's constantly changing as

417
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,959
Speaker 2: people present different ideas. So the answers I don't know,

418
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 2: I can say that I can because people don't know

419
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 2: when she comes from. It seems like she actually is

420
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: a very similar actual origin as witches, but as sort

421
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 2: of a mythic figure rather than like, oh, that lady

422
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: over there will like read the entrails of a chicken,

423
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 2: so we should kill her, you know.

424
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Speaker 3: I like, I mean, I like the variations on like

425
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 3: I don't know. I like the flavor of witch that

426
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: she is where it's like she's very powerful. It doesn't

427
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: seem like the story has a vested interest in doing

428
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 3: away with her or like making a strong I don't know.

429
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: I don't think I've encountered this flavor of witch before.

430
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: I'm excited well, speaking of flavors of witches, which flavored

431
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: potato chips that you could buy called witch chips. Our

432
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: sponsors today's they spawned. Here's some ads, and we are back.

433
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 4: I'm hoping that witches would be into dill pickle chips,

434
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 4: only because I hope that I'm a witch and dill

435
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 4: pickle chips are delicious.

436
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 3: Have you have either of you ever tried them.

437
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 2: I've had dill pickles and I've had chips. I've had

438
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: dill pickle chips.

439
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 3: They're great. They have no no right to be as

440
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: good as they are. It's just it's mostly just really

441
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: loud salt. Yeah, that's how I would describe.

442
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 2: The like salt and vinegar chips.

443
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of, but like, but but what if what

444
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 4: if vinegar minded her business and it was just salt

445
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 4: screaming at the top of its lungs. It's all capital letters.

446
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 4: Salt is what the dill pickle chip tastes like. And

447
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: that is like right as a sodium head, all right,

448
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 4: I love it.

449
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: I love it, big sodium guy.

450
00:24:59,640 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 3: Huge.

451
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

452
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So Bobby I got started showing up in written

453
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 2: sources in the eighteenth century in things that we're talking

454
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 2: about how she'd been around for a very long time,

455
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: like collections of Russian folklore as well as eighteenth century

456
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 2: Russian political cartoons. Okay, there are these single panel woodblock

457
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: prints called lub Key that were in the style of

458
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 2: the time, and she was a common figure in these

459
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 2: woodblock prints as sort of an archetype, and she was

460
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 2: used in a couple different ways, and people like to

461
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: argue about people feel very certain about what the interpretation

462
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 2: of her in these are, but they disagree with each other,

463
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 2: and I have no fucking way. Annoying. Some ways she

464
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: was used to represent like the old ways and the

465
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: old beliefs, but in other times she was probably used

466
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: as like this, like Finnish lady married the czar at

467
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 2: some point, and it was like, here's this fucking evil witch.

468
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 2: She's gonna come fuck up our good Christian tzar by

469
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: being Finnish and therefore like you know, a barbarian or whatever.

470
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 3: Okay.

471
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: In seventeen fifty five she appeared in writing for maybe

472
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: the first time, and it was a list of Slavic

473
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: gods and their Greek counterparts, and so she was listed

474
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 2: as a god and in it she was the only

475
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 2: god or one of the only gods in that list

476
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: with no counterpart. There was no counterpart to a Greek god.

477
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,719
Speaker 3: Wow, that's cool.

478
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: I know there's like later people who kind of compare

479
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: it to persephone, but it wasn't I think being done

480
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 2: at the time.

481
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 3: I mean, I like that as sort of being canonical

482
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: to who she is of like, she doesn't she has

483
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: so much like power and intent that she doesn't need

484
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 3: a sidekick or a counterpart. Like that's amazing.

485
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it makes her basically like unique and

486
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 2: like indigenous to that area, and that is going to

487
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: tie into some of the kind of shit that I

488
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 2: find really interesting about it.

489
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 3: Ooh ooh, Okay.

490
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 2: But there's one other attestation attestation people talking about her

491
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 2: from back in the day that's super interesting to me.

492
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: There was this guy, his name was a Cholkov Michal,

493
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 2: and he wrote a book in seventeen eighty two called

494
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: Dictionary of Russian Superstitions, and I cannot find an English

495
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: translation of it. I'm very sad, and I almost bought

496
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: a Russian copy of it because it's.

497
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 3: The title though I know that rock and.

498
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,200
Speaker 2: It's all about all the weird pagany shit that people

499
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: were doing unlike the weird, good normal stuff like being

500
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: part of a blood drinking call, like Christianity. It's all

501
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 2: about the like superstitions.

502
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: Being normal, drink blood.

503
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually don't remember whether Orthodox. I don't know

504
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 2: whether Orthodox believes it literally turns into blood in your

505
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 2: body the way that Catholics did, but I know that

506
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: there was Catholics there too anyway, So it's all about.

507
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 3: Like, well, yeah, Catholics famously chill.

508
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 2: It's about blood sacrifices and shamanic marriages and all this stuff.

509
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: And he doesn't like superstitions, and as far as anyone

510
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: can tell, as as far as historians can tell, he

511
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 2: didn't make up anything in the book. But he also

512
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: wasn't very great about vetting us sources. So he didn't

513
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: like be like, oh, you know, be funny as I

514
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 2: like if we did this, But instead he's just like, oh,

515
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 2: I met a guy in the road who told me this,

516
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: and that's totally what people do, you know. So he's

517
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 2: not the strongest source in the world. And this is

518
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: one of the main sources we have about well. He

519
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: he wrote down a lot of folk tales and folk songs,

520
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: and he systematized Russian legislation, not in this book, in

521
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: a different book. He's just like, I feel like being

522
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 2: like a guy who knows how to write books was

523
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 2: like kind of just like a job at the time.

524
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 4: I feel like that's what podcasting is right now, where

525
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: you're like, if you know how to do this, you

526
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 4: can kind of talk about fucking whatever. I'm banking on that,

527
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 4: And in this guy's corner, I'm like, oh, yeah, you can.

528
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: Just totally switch areas of expertise because you knew how

529
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: to write something down.

530
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 2: I mean that is that is my job?

531
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 4: Yes, yeahs technically what we're both doing.

532
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. He also wrote a book speaking of calendars that

533
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: the Devil could make and such or different sapphic things.

534
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: He wrote a book called Comely Cook, or Adventures of

535
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: lude Woman.

536
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 4: I love him, Yeah, like yeah.

537
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: In his seventeen eighty two Superstitions book, he talks about

538
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: an Eastern Slavic goddess named Yaghi yah Baba. And so

539
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: this is a pre Baba Yaga character who sits in

540
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 2: an iron mortar with an iron pestle in her hand

541
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: and is a death god. And I think the mortar

542
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 2: and pestle for like grinding up the dead right, like

543
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: being returned to the earth kind of stuff. And there's

544
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 2: sure very little information about a yaghiah baba in English

545
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 2: basically just like the sentence or two from this guy's book.

546
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: But people made blood sacrifices to her, which she used

547
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: to feed her two granddaughters. And in some Baba Yagas

548
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: stories she has two granddaughters and sometimes she has two sisters.

549
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 3: So and then the story you just told she had

550
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 3: a daughter, is that correct?

551
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 4: Do we know who? Like, how does baba yaga who reproduce?

552
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

553
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: Who she?

554
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 3: Who? She fucking?

555
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: Who's we will get? We will get He's nice?

556
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 3: Okay, good, because it seems like, I mean, at least

557
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: in the story you just told, it seemed like the

558
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: daughter was very maybe the I can't imagine baba ya

559
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: god jeans are recessive, but like she seemed like she

560
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,479
Speaker 3: didn't have the baba ya got intensity about her.

561
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but she was magic and like turned her

562
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: and turned her friend into a needle and also looked

563
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: exactly like the friend. I mean, that is some like

564
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: doppelbanger ship right, Like that is like, oh, cute girl's

565
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: coming to the window. Let me just like oh I

566
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 2: am I am you.

567
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: No, I'm a cute girl.

568
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

569
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, that story was wild.

570
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 4: I I got, I got, I got sidetracked by the

571
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 4: incest fake out.

572
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: But there is a lot going on in there.

573
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I no, it's it's weird.

574
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

575
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 2: So, as far as I can tell, this seems like

576
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 2: this is the main argument that Baby AGA's based on

577
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 2: Iyaghia Babba is based on an Eastern Slavic goddess, that

578
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: there's not that much information about that people perform blood

579
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: sacrifices too. Vladimir prop writing in the nineteen forties, talks

580
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: about how baby Aga represents the guardian between the land

581
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: of the living and the forest of the dead, and

582
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: so this is where she starts getting compared to Persephony

583
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: in Greek mythology, the goddess of the harvest who ruled

584
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: the underworld. And there's actually some stuff about her being

585
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: like an agricultural god to not Persephone, but Baby Aga

586
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 2: being like kind of an agricultural god, and there's like

587
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: some stuff about I actually literally don't remember if I

588
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: put this in the script later or not, so maybe

589
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: I'll end up repeating this or skimming past it, but

590
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 2: like plowing the earth with her teeth and that's like

591
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 2: why she has like the wild fucked up teeth, which

592
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 2: is fucking cool. Her hut faces the forest, which is

593
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: the land of the dead, and the people have to

594
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: turn the hut around because they can't walk to the

595
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: other side because that's the land of the dead in

596
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: this reading of like the forest representing the land of

597
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: the dead and death.

598
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 3: So they have to turn her house around.

599
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because okay, when you show up, Bobby A. Gus's

600
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: house is facing the wrong way and you have to say, like, hut, hut,

601
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: turn around and face me. Okay, yes, And because you're

602
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, why don't you just fucking walk

603
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: around the house. Like when I think to myself, I

604
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: would like to be by the back door of a house,

605
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 2: I don't think to myself, how can I entice the

606
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: house to turn around? I tend to think to myself,

607
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 2: turn to me, I will walk around the house.

608
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, Margaret, you're being too accommodating. You need to ask

609
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 4: for what you need if you need the house to

610
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 4: turn to you. And that's self care, and that's practice.

611
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: And that's pottery class all in one. It's turned to me.

612
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah for once. Yeah, And so this makes the stories

613
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: into the hero's journey if it's about like the land

614
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 2: of the dead and shit, right, and I kind of

615
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: like low key hate the hero's journey as like a

616
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: plot structure that is like used for everything. Sure, but

617
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: this concept throughout folklore, especially Western folklore, where you're like

618
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: going into the land of the dead to return to

619
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 2: the land of the living. And sometimes it's like a

620
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 2: death and rebirth. Sometimes that means sometimes that was symbolized

621
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: by being swallowed by an animal, and so the chicken

622
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 2: legs as part of the hut like could be like

623
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,239
Speaker 2: the house is the animal that you're getting swallowed by

624
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 2: when you're being reborn. And so there's this this theory.

625
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: And I also think that sometimes the walls are made

626
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: of bone, right, and that certainly the gate walls are

627
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 2: made of bone. I feel like that ties into that too.

628
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 2: There's this theory that Babby Agad and the journey to

629
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: her was like this coming of age ritual in the

630
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 2: pre Christianized version of all this, okay, and so going

631
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: on this hero's journey is how these characters become adults.

632
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: And there's no actual like the people who've done a

633
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: lot of research about Baby Aga, like theorized this, but

634
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 2: it's like mostly based on like, well pretty much every

635
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 2: other culture we've looked at has this, so they probably

636
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: did too, we don't.

637
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 3: Know, and so it's like bizarre, Yeah, Okay, to.

638
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 2: Quote Andreas Johns, who wrote kind of the main English

639
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: language academic study of Babiega, and he's discussing a different author,

640
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 2: Vladimir Prop's ideas quote. As the initiation ritual died out,

641
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: only Babiyaga's association with death was remembered. With the appearance

642
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: of agriculture, a new religion replaced older hunting beliefs, and

643
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: the old divinities were reinterpreted as evil spirits. Yaga, the

644
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: mother and mistress of the beasts, became a witch. And

645
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 2: I actually a little bit there's a lot of like

646
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 2: modern anthropological stuff about how like this idea that like

647
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: everyone was hunters and then suddenly was like what if

648
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,919
Speaker 2: we throw the seeds in the ground. Now everyone's agriculture,

649
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: And like there's been a lot of like anthropological shit

650
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 2: about how like shit was like way blurrier than that, Okay,

651
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: And so I'm like less excited, I'm less quick to

652
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: believe that it has to do with like the coming

653
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,400
Speaker 2: of agriculture disrupting that traditional form, and probably more the

654
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 2: coming of Christianity that made her a demon. And like

655
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: all the old gods become like myths or demons instead

656
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: of gods.

657
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 3: You know that scans more for me as well.

658
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so she becomes a boogeyman with coming

659
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 2: to Christianity, and if your obedient and listen to your mother,

660
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 2: you survive your encounter with her. She's the bad mother

661
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 2: to be contrasted with the good mother, like we were

662
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: talking about. And then one of the reasons I find

663
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,359
Speaker 2: that really interesting is that as I was doing all

664
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 2: this reading about rural Slavic and rural Russian kind of

665
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: like medieval early medieval and stuff families, not everyone lived

666
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: in a nuclear family. A lot of rural people lived

667
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: in extended family units in one household under one patriarch.

668
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: And then even that under one patriarch might be an

669
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 2: assumption from patriarchal anthropologist, but I don't know. So a

670
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: kid grows up with a bunch of mothers, because you

671
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: grow up with like a bunch of family units that

672
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: are one family unit, because you live worly and it

673
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: takes a village to race a child, right, all right,

674
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 2: and the wackiest thing that people like to talk about Bobby,

675
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: a god that I have a unique interest in. She's

676
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: also perceived as a phallic mother to some folklore scholars. Okay,

677
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 2: she's unpacked that. Yeah. So she's presented as wielding a

678
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: pestle and a broom. She has a bony leg and

679
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 2: a large nose. I'm making air quotes here. And sometimes

680
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: she has a giant iron tooth or an iron hook,

681
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: and she attacks with snakes sometimes and sometimes she has

682
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 2: an entire army. These are all like masculine traits, and

683
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 2: some of them are like penis traits, according to people

684
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: who are under the like psychosexual shit that I don't

685
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: really believe in personally. Yeah, So to quote Andreas John's

686
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 2: about this again. Some psychologists have interpreted fantasies about phallic

687
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: women as an expression of male castration anxiety. As frightening

688
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: as the fantasies of phallic women may be themselves, they

689
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 2: serve to deny women's genital difference and the more frightening

690
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: possibility that a man might lose his penis. Freud states

691
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: that the snakes which for Medusa's hair are quote are

692
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: derived from the castration complex. It is a remarkable fact that,

693
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 2: however frightening they may be in themselves, they nevertheless serve

694
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: actually as a mitigation of the horror of Medusa, because

695
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 2: they replace the penis, the absence of which causes the horror.

696
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 3: Huh. I think this is a bullshit because I hear

697
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 3: Freudian theory and I'm just like, sounds like it might

698
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 3: have been more of a hymn thing.

699
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is not our this is maybe not

700
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 2: the collective issue.

701
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 3: That we're making it out to be.

702
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole like a well you would say that

703
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: as having penis of it, the penis envy shit, the

704
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: phallic women thing. It's like and like, okay, so there's

705
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 2: this a concept of the phallic woman and witches. Writing

706
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: broomsticks is another example of this. And then there's like

707
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 2: people who've written all this shit about Buffy the Vampire

708
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 2: Slayer as a phallic woman because like she like runs

709
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 2: around staking people, right, And I'm.

710
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: Just like, weapons are pointy and sharp, like what I know?

711
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,319
Speaker 2: I know these like I did. It's like the tree

712
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: is a vaginal weapon. I don't like a net I

713
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: guess true? Yeah, no, like no, it's it's I mean,

714
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: it's interesting to me because I'm interested in trying to

715
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: explore like the concepts of transness throughout history and shit,

716
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: and so less is the like phallic mother. But there's

717
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 2: like this, like it's this like male, I don't put this, okay.

718
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: So it's like Schrodinger's genitals. In the unobserved state, a

719
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: man or a woman could have any set of genitals,

720
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: and so witches in Bobby Yaga could have anything. And

721
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 2: this it's like presented as like that's part of the

722
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: fear of witches and these like masculinized women is that

723
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 2: they like could have dicks. And I think it's I

724
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: think it's horseshit. But the part of it I like

725
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I I

726
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 2: know some women with dicks.

727
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: And uh, I just the phrase shred aingers genitals. Uh,

728
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 4: stop me in my tracks and I'll never move again.

729
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: It's so good. Thanks proud of that one.

730
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 3: It's an unbelievable turn of phrase. Thank you for that.

731
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I yeah, thanks, uh And so okay, So

732
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 2: this makes her like a potentially transfigure and and in

733
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: the ways in which she was a fertility goddess actually

734
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: tie into that in that like like because she's she's

735
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: the one plowing the fields. There's like fertility shit about

736
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: the like masculine act rather than the receptive whatever fucking

737
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 2: nonsense that people are into about that shit. Yeah, and

738
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 2: she also seems similar to stop talking about drunk for

739
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: a moment. She seems similar to me to another another goddess,

740
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: another Slavic goddess named Mokosh is a death god and

741
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 2: a mother goddess. And Mokash is the ruler of death

742
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: and fertility, life and rebirth. And she's like more famous

743
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: because she was one of the gods who was sort

744
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 2: of like canonized essentially, like not by the Christians, but

745
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 2: by like a formal codification of some of the pagan

746
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: shit that was happening. And she was the only girl

747
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 2: that got I just like the weird Guy's book. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

748
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: This is like there's like more like statues and shit

749
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 2: to Mokash around and like and like I wish i'd

750
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 2: remember wrote down more exactly, but like a guy who

751
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,760
Speaker 2: like formalized a lot of the pagan shit only picked

752
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: one girl and picked Mokash got it. And she's the

753
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 2: ruler of death and fertility, life, and rebirth. Her name

754
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 2: probably means moisture, which rules. And she's related to another

755
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 2: Slavic goddess. Go ahead, not sorry, just folklore.

756
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're like, I guess, so, yeah, sure, great.

757
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's related to another Slavic goddess, matt Zemlie, who

758
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: is called the moist Mother Earth. And in the nineteenth century,

759
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 2: the two goddesses Mocash and matt Zamiela sort of became

760
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 2: one in a lot of like people's minds and stuff,

761
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:23,919
Speaker 2: and the relationship is like super fuzzy, like sometimes they're

762
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: related and sometimes they're not. Like and Mokosh, there are

763
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: claims that she has been portrayed with male genitals throughout time. Okay,

764
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: and so you know, I trans goddesses for the wind

765
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: for my book, and Mokosh probably came from the fins

766
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: like Bobby Aga might have, which we'll get to in

767
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: a bit or Okay, I guess we get to it now. Okay,

768
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: I want to talk about her chicken get it now? Yeah? Yeah, yes, okay,

769
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 2: this is the part that I feel most confident about.

770
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: I know where the chicken legged hut comes from.

771
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 3: I can't believe you've we've we've been here for two hours.

772
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 2: Tell me, all right, does the chicken well, it probably

773
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: comes from the vendors of No. I'm gonna to give

774
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: you the actual answer, but first we have to do

775
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 2: an ad pivot. Advertisers support the economy that we all participated,

776
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 2: and gladly we're all so excited about the way the

777
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 2: economy works. Sophie's shaking her head and disbelief of how

778
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 2: well I'm doing my job.

779
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: Listen to the ads so I can hear where this

780
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 4: damn chicken leg hunt comes from.

781
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 2: Already, all right, ads, ads over, Okay, I want you

782
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: to google what you are. You're actually at a ipadt

783
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: you might not be able to do this.

784
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 3: I gotta I got a phone. I got a telephone.

785
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 3: What's up?

786
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 2: Okay? I want you to google Sammy s a m

787
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 2: I storehouse and an image searches Sammy storehouse.

788
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: Oh god, my tabs are so embarrassing. I I just

789
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 3: had to open the Minion's menu at eye hoop so

790
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 3: I can type this in Sammy storehouse. Yeah, okay, and

791
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 3: we're hitting images. Ooh, this building has gams.

792
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a chicken legged hut Okay, okay, so

793
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: that so.

794
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 3: It's I'm looking at the first result is kind of

795
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 3: a log cabin, but it's got it's got sexy little legs. Yeah,

796
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 3: it's got four four sexy legs, which is chickens don't.

797
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: Have well, but sometimes has four legs, sometimes has two,

798
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: and sometimes has four. This I can I'll tell you

799
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, are these still?

800
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 3: Are these still feasible?

801
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 2: Can we still do this?

802
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: So?

803
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, I mean, yeah, you can certainly build that,

804
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 2: and and the some Sammi folks still do. So this

805
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 2: comes this chicken legged hut. As far as I can tell,

806
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 2: and as far as a lot of other people can tell,

807
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 2: I didn't come up with this idea. It comes from

808
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 2: the Sami people who are indigenous to what is usually

809
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 2: has historically been called Lapland but is better known as Assami,

810
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: which is northern Norway, Sweden, Finland and like the northwestern

811
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 2: bits of Russia, and for centuries the Sami actually had

812
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 2: little contact with the Germanic Scandinavians who lived in southern Scandinavia,

813
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 2: which is like the Vikings and the Norse and Germanic

814
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 2: gods and all that shit. The Sami had their own

815
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: fucking thing going on, and still do they lived in

816
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: places that were too baren to cultivate, so they were

817
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 2: left alone for a long time. Coastal Sami traditionally sustained

818
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 2: themselves as fishers, while those in the interior traditionally heard reindeer.

819
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: The nineteenth century caused force assimilation, a project of quote

820
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: civilizing them as part Sad and True, banning their languages,

821
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: giving incentives to settlers to move into their territory. Their

822
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 2: children were taken to residential schools to have their culture

823
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 2: destroy all the usual colonizer shit. These days, Sami lands

824
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 2: are being exploited for mineral and oil and gas resources,

825
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 2: disturbing the reindeer, and I don't.

826
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 3: Know, just destroying an entire indigenous culture.

827
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think that's something that people don't recognize enough,

828
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: is that colonization happens everywhere in the world, and indigenous

829
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 2: people getting shoved into states and then oppressed happens fucking everywhere.

830
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: Interestingly, this is a theme that is explored in the

831
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 3: movie Frozen two.

832
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: Oh that's cool.

833
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just a fact.

834
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

835
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 3: I mean I have not heard about the about Sami

836
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: culture before.

837
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: This is all new to me, okay, and so many

838
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 2: of them the Sami were traditionally migratory. The folks whould

839
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 2: follow the reindeer and heard reindeer, and so they built

840
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: storehouses on stilts for all the stuff that they weren't

841
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,919
Speaker 2: taking with them on migration. And I've read this both

842
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: as storehouses of dried food, like, you know, all the

843
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: stuff that they prepare and they're like, why can't we

844
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: can't take all this with us? I've also read it

845
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: as storehouses of just like stuff, like all the stuff

846
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 2: that when we come back here we're gonna want. And

847
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: so wild animals can't get in because the stilts and

848
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,320
Speaker 2: sometimes they didn't have windows, and the stilts were sometimes

849
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 2: for tree trunks with their roots looking like chicken feet,

850
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: And yeah, I cannot imagine after seeing this sort of image,

851
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 2: I cannot imagine another origin of this, because the yeah,

852
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 2: you know, the Slavs were, if at their like wildest,

853
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 2: venturing into the far birch forests, you know, and traditionally

854
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: Babiyagaha lives in birch forest. That's when you would be

855
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: encountering something like this.

856
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 3: I mean visually, it is so fucking cool looking, Like

857
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 3: I get why the image stuck, because it looks amazing.

858
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and so the sami aren't. There's a lot

859
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: of different groups of people that share that little sort

860
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: of vague it's not part of the Scandinavian peninsula, the

861
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 2: Finland part, but there are several Finnish ogresses, one of

862
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 2: whom is good and one of whom is bad, who

863
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 2: are seen as potential origins of bobby Aga as well

864
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 2: or like influences on it. That like Bobbiyaga's like both

865
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 2: of those ogresses at once, and one more weird thing

866
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: that ties into the bobby a Ga myth. You know,

867
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: she's like shoving shoving our protagonist into the oven on

868
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 2: the like shovel or whatever into the huge oven. Boy

869
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 2: do I okay? Well, there was this Eastern Slavic traditional

870
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: healing method called baking children, where if the kid is sick,

871
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 2: especially like a child who's born too early or like

872
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: some other issues, you put them in the oven for

873
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 2: a while not too hot.

874
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously, instead a timer is easy to get distracted,

875
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: and you know, like I get it. Yeah, we've all

876
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 3: been there.

877
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: So that was the thing that people did, and it's

878
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 2: like almost certainly the origin of the the the person

879
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 2: who knows the traditional methods is like the evil witch

880
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: who bakes children.

881
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 3: Right, I feel, okay, this did it work at all?

882
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that. I think there

883
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 2: are probably some things that would have helped with but

884
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: I do not know. And I think that they did

885
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: it in a way that.

886
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just made made it afraid of enclosed spaces

887
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 3: for the rest of our lives.

888
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: What yeah, wow, okay, Freud would have had a fucking

889
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: field day with us back into the womb shit too.

890
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 3: Freud was a fucking weirdo. I just like, you know,

891
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 3: uh that is okay, so so bad witches put like,

892
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 3: uh bake children? Yeah, yeah, question mark, Okay, okay, So

893
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 3: that ogresses.

894
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 2: In this case, yeah, well yes, sometimes you know, sometimes

895
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 2: she's an ogress and so, as far as I can tell, Basically,

896
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 2: baby Aga in post Christian folklore, represents the fear of

897
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 2: the pagan other, especially the sort of like indigenous pagan other,

898
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 2: the knowledgeable, strange people in the woods. In Siberia, it

899
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,400
Speaker 2: seems like babi Aga represents the fear of the indigenous

900
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: people out there, and then in western Russia it was

901
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: like the indigenous people who live there are like the

902
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 2: the people who are being othered by this, I see,

903
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 2: and I think that this ties into how she can

904
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: always smell the Russian blood because she's not Russian. She's

905
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 2: a foreigner. She's not from a different place, but she's

906
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 2: from a foreign culture, Okay, because Russia, clearly, you know,

907
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 2: it is a very large place.

908
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 3: And so it's that colonial storytelling tradition of implying that

909
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 3: all of the evil comes from the indigenous character that's

910
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: being okay.

911
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I realize this trope.

912
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 3: Okay.

913
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,320
Speaker 2: And then it might be more of like just purely

914
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: about paganism. It might be more a bunch of other stuff,

915
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: but that is my rate of it, okay. But she's

916
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 2: also got the like entrancing power of the other two, right,

917
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: because she's not just a villain. She's the villain in

918
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: about two thirds of the stories she's in, And she's

919
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: almost unique in folklore because overall she's like this bad

920
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: bit who eats kids. But she's the representation of the

921
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: catalyst of change that is necessary in any person's life.

922
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: People have described her as like the god of tough love.

923
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 3: That's a cool that's a cool title.

924
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could use that, And I like how a

925
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: lot of the kind of pre Christian beliefs are morals

926
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: like survive in monsters. I really have this whole thing

927
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: where I really like monsters. And to quote Madame Pemita

928
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: writing for Bust, if we look back even further, we

929
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 2: see her in her trurer guys as the forest mother,

930
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 2: the guardian of the woods. This is where her dicey

931
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 2: nature comes in. For our ancestors, the wild was truly ambiguous.

932
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 2: Nature provided food, materials and beauty, but it could also

933
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 2: be devil you, devour you, and destroy you. Babi y

934
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 2: a Ga is just like that, cruel one moment and

935
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: achingly sweet and generous the next. In ancient Slavic paganism,

936
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: you have three planes of existence. There's the middle world

937
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: where we all live. You've got the upper world where

938
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 2: the gods hangout, and then you have the lower world,

939
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 2: which isn't hell. It's like where the plant spirits and

940
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 2: the animals and like the mythical things hang out. And

941
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 2: Bobby a Gas like the lower world all the way.

942
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 3: Okay, I like that that kind of not I don't

943
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 3: even know if that's a hierarchy, but I like that

944
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 3: concept of the lower world.

945
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, me too. I want to learn more about

946
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff, like because a lot of

947
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 2: this is like mentioned in passing and stuff about Bobby

948
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: A gah, And then I start digging into it because

949
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 2: I get excited, and then I remember that I have

950
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 2: to eventually finished projects.

951
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 4: But even like the concept of the forest beneath the

952
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 4: ground and like stuff like that, it just I don't know.

953
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 4: All that imagery is so cool.

954
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, and so so Christian. Russians don't actually have

955
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 2: to go very far to find a pagan other. There's

956
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 2: been an unbroken tradition of paganism right to the present

957
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 2: day within Russia. About five hundred miles east of Moscow.

958
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 2: They're the Mari people who are ethnically finn ugric I believe,

959
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 2: and they claim that their religion is about seven five

960
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,240
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty years old. And when I say about,

961
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,319
Speaker 2: I mean they claim that their religion is seven thousand,

962
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 2: five hundred and thirty years old. I was like, that's

963
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 2: a very precise about, yeah, which which implies that they

964
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: have a specific start date.

965
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

966
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: And in so many ways they're just like the archetypical

967
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: pagans that people when they think about like European paganism,

968
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 2: they're polytheists. They meet in sacred groves instead of churches,

969
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 2: and they've run across some problems over the years. You'd

970
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 2: think that the history of history is the history of

971
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 2: people accepting religious differences.

972
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 4: That's I mean, that's the way I've understood it, and

973
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 4: I've only read books from the winners.

974
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think that that's probably chill yeaheah.

975
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we totally accepted them, and then they

976
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:19,280
Speaker 2: just stopped believing what they believed peacefully.

977
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:27,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a holiday about that coming up. God fucking garbage. Sorry, continue,

978
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 4: So the problems.

979
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: That they've run into first, they ran into the problems

980
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 2: of Christians. Russia started christianizing more intensely around the year

981
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: a thousand, and a lot of Pagans had to resettle

982
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: or do what Christianized people have done all over the world,

983
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 2: especially Catholics, they syncretize. There's this like dual faith thing

984
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: that people have going on where people manage successfully for

985
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 2: hundreds of years, if not thousands of years, where they're like, oh, yeah,

986
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 2: I'm like Catholic or Orthodox or whatever, and then they

987
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: like go out to the glade and keep up their

988
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 2: actual religion. And so a lot of them. Mari religious

989
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: believers were practicing that, and then they had a bigger

990
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: problem the Bolsheviks. When the Bolsheviks took over Russia created

991
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: the USSR. They didn't like religion. It's sort of a

992
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: classic thing. Mosques and churches were raised all over, and

993
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: so were the sacred groves. They would run through and

994
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: be like, that's also a thing you're not allowed to do.

995
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 2: One MARI practitioner describes life under the Soviet Union about

996
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: how they creep into the forest to practice. Quote, the police,

997
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 2: fervent atheists, communists would come. They kicked over our cauldrons

998
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,720
Speaker 2: and chased us away. And that was mostly the seventies

999
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: and eighties. I think a lot of the more intense

1000
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 2: anti religious stuff that was happening. But I again, this

1001
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 2: is like a thing I like to have touched on peripherally,

1002
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: but not dive deep into.

1003
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm interested. I mean every sort of like alley

1004
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 3: this story leads down, is cool, that's wild.

1005
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: After the fall of the USSR, the practice started back

1006
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 2: up again more openly until the other classic monster on

1007
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: the world stage, Putin.

1008
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, Putin is not a huge supporter of religious freedom.

1009
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1010
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: No.

1011
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 2: Weirdly persecution, and the article I'm reading is about who

1012
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 2: that's talking about. This is from about twenty ten, when

1013
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: it was like starting to kick back in. I have

1014
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 2: not been able to find the follow up about Putin

1015
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 2: changing his mind and sudenly being very tolerant and he

1016
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: actually specifically used an anti extremist law that persecutes a

1017
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,320
Speaker 2: ton of religions like Muslims and Jehovah's Witnesses and the

1018
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: Mari Pagans, where it's like if your book is like, hey,

1019
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 2: our practices are cool, we don't like churches, they're like,

1020
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: that's extremism because you said this other thing, okay, And

1021
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 2: so I don't know. I don't know Putin bait and switch, yeah, yeah,

1022
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 2: And I don't know a ton about them. But they're

1023
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: still around, They're still doing their thing. They consciously stand

1024
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 2: in solidarity with indigenous and pagan religions the world round,

1025
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: especially as it relates to climate change. One practitioner said,

1026
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:06,040
Speaker 2: they say, we need to increase consumption to get out

1027
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: of the economic crisis, but if we all start to

1028
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 2: consume on the level of England or America, we'll destroy

1029
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:15,279
Speaker 2: the earth within a decade. So at least on this level.

1030
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 3: I like them, you know, I was like, yeah that,

1031
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 3: I'm on board with that.

1032
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1033
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so I want to learn more about this.

1034
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. So back to Babbia Ga. The thing is, she's

1035
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 2: never centered in the story. She's never the protagonist. She's

1036
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 2: a force of nature that people can tend with. No

1037
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:37,080
Speaker 2: One ever asks how is bobbiy aaka? They only ask

1038
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: you know about about the arch chrone, the bone mother.

1039
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 2: These are other names I found for.

1040
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 3: The way you're describing this. It cracks me up. It

1041
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 3: just like sounds like you're like teeing up to pitch

1042
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 3: a really shitty Disney Plus series about like people always

1043
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 3: ask like no one ever asked, how is Bobby aka?

1044
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 3: And miss reboot starring insert woman here. This is a

1045
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 3: this is a terrible Catherine Han mini series waiting to happen.

1046
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 2: I think we can do it. Well, I've been. This

1047
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 2: has all been my long pitch to get you as

1048
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 2: co writer.

1049
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 3: I'm in.

1050
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 2: I'm in, baby all right. She's almost never married in

1051
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: any of the stories, which good for her, right sometimes

1052
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 2: she has children or grandchildren. She's clearly doing what she

1053
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: wants even when she has children and is unmarried. So

1054
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: fuck yeah, there's one guy she sometimes represented as hooking

1055
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: up with another pagan fear of the other guy. And

1056
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: his name is Koshe the Deathless, and he's kind of

1057
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: cool because his name's I mean, it's a cool name.

1058
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: I mean I was like, I'm into the name.

1059
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's his deal? Well, Jamie, I'm glad you asked.

1060
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: He's a weird immortal wizard warrior guy who can't die

1061
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: because he hides his souleen objects like in a needle,

1062
00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 2: in an egg and a dock and a hair and

1063
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 2: a chest buried on a far island.

1064
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 3: All right, well, none of this is disqualifying to me,

1065
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 3: so continuous.

1066
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got a ton of magical items, and he

1067
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 2: has a super fast magical horse. In one story, he

1068
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 2: gets this horse from Bobby Jagah. And sometimes the horse's

1069
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 2: three legs, sometimes a seven legs, sometimes has the normal

1070
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 2: boring amount of legs. And this guy is probably, or

1071
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 2: at least has been conjectured in a way that I

1072
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 2: find convincing enough to make this connection because it's entertaining.

1073
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 2: He might have been an actual guy. Oh, there was

1074
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 2: a twelfth century pagan khan of the of the Kuman

1075
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: people named Khan Konchek, who maybe led a I had

1076
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: a hard as time finding this part out. I'm like,

1077
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 2: maybe he let a slave uprising. I'm not sure. I

1078
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 2: don't feel confident about that. But he also is conjectured

1079
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: to have like lived to over one hundred years old,

1080
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 2: unless maybe his kid was using his name too. But

1081
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: basically he was the immortal because he lived over he

1082
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 2: like saw six generations of people, and so everyone's like,

1083
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 2: that guy is never going to fucking die. He keeps

1084
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 2: fucking right conquering everything.

1085
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 3: Because everyone lived six years back.

1086
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And he wore an omulet of protection that

1087
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 2: was an arrowhead inside of an egg shape, and so

1088
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: that's probably where you get the needle in the egg

1089
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: and the doctor and the goose and the hole in

1090
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 2: the bottom of the sea. There's a hole. There's a hole.

1091
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 2: There's a hole in the bottom of the sea.

1092
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 3: I was like, keep going, keep going.

1093
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 2: And since he was a successful battle guy and he

1094
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,400
Speaker 2: was a pagan, he became a batty, right. I mean,

1095
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 2: most battle guys are batties to be to be real

1096
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: that what they do is run around hit people with swords,

1097
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 2: which is like not usually a polite thing to do.

1098
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 3: It's not usually smiled upon in polite society.

1099
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but because him and Bobby a guy were both batties,

1100
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,320
Speaker 2: people like to ship them together, and sometimes they got

1101
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 2: together in stories and this.

1102
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 3: That's so oh God. I love when you're like, yeah,

1103
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 3: folk like folk tales and fan fiction. Are they live

1104
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 3: in the same neighborhood. A times we were just like, oh,

1105
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 3: they're both pretty bad if they fucked totally totally people

1106
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 3: have been horny for so long. Yeah, you know that's

1107
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 3: my controversial statement.

1108
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 2: Since he hid his soul in other objects, we could

1109
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 2: call this book which for lych.

1110
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 3: Swish.

1111
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1112
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: Thanks, Yes, And that's what I've got about Bobby a

1113
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: gum cool.

1114
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:24,000
Speaker 1: Oh.

1115
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 3: I love Bobby I the as I was. I was.

1116
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 3: I googled, I hit Google images bravely to see like

1117
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 3: what different interpretations of her look like, and it is

1118
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 3: like wow, I mean, I think we talked about this

1119
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 3: in the last episode, but all of the.

1120
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 4: Kind of cartoon like anti anti any woman who isn't

1121
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:53,560
Speaker 4: like aggressively Western beauty standards. You've got the cartoon anti semitism,

1122
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 4: and you also have Bobby Agau was an antagonist in

1123
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 4: a Miyazaki movie which I did realize.

1124
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 3: I haven't seen it. Have you seen it?

1125
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: Which movie is it in?

1126
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: It's one I haven't seen. Sorry, it's the main antagonist

1127
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 3: in Mister Doe and the Egg Princess I haven't She

1128
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 3: brings the Egg Princess to life. Her home is the

1129
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 3: Castle of the Dark Forest. Seems like a loose interpretation,

1130
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 3: but I think this is a short film, but I

1131
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 3: want to I want to go back and watch it

1132
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 3: now to see how Miyazaki interpreted. But she was still

1133
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 3: a cannibal okay okay.

1134
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:39,160
Speaker 4: And and also, if you're familiar with the Miyazaki character

1135
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 4: you Baba from Spirited Away, which I have seen, I

1136
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 4: guess that Bobby Aga has you Baba energy as well.

1137
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:50,160
Speaker 3: I was like, I want to see more Bobbyaga. Seems

1138
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 3: like there should be more modern interpretations of She's cool.

1139
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,640
Speaker 2: I know there's a I watched a Lost Girl episode

1140
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: of Bobby Aga in preparation for this. I've never actually

1141
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 2: seen Lost Girl, and my friend was like, what the

1142
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 2: fuck means? And then was uh and then described it

1143
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 2: as in the genre of entertainment that is people who

1144
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:15,880
Speaker 2: fight demons and quip, oh, see that's what I like

1145
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 2: that that.

1146
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 3: Can be you get to be in the right mood.

1147
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 3: But that can be a good genre.

1148
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1149
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 2: I have written two novellas that are people who fight

1150
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:28,040
Speaker 2: demons and quip, so I like, I'm into it. You're

1151
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: damn good at it, thank you, thank you. Yeah. No,

1152
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: And there is the the Japanese analog. I didn't get

1153
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: into it more. There's like comparisons that made and to

1154
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: cultures especially nearby like Japan and Siberia, and I want

1155
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 2: to know more about how all of that trace is around.

1156
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 2: But that is also the stuff that people get doctorates.

1157
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:56,320
Speaker 2: And I'm a lowly the equivalence of the guy who

1158
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 2: writes the like I'll write down your legal structure and

1159
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 2: to write erotic fanfic about a maid.

1160
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 3: I think that that is a beautiful place to be.

1161
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 3: That is a culturally significant and impactful place to be.

1162
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:11,120
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1163
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 3: This has been so fascinating.

1164
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, if people want to hear you occupy that cultural space,

1165
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 2: how can they do so?

1166
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:28,560
Speaker 3: Yes, you can do all sorts of stuff. I was

1167
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 3: because we were talking about Baba. I would recommend watching

1168
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 3: a show called Teenage Euthanasia, in which there is a

1169
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 3: character named Baba written on the show for a couple

1170
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,439
Speaker 3: of years it's streaming on HBO Max. It's a really

1171
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 3: fun show and Baba is also kind of a mystical,

1172
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 3: mysterious figure. You can also pre order my book Raw Dog,

1173
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 3: which is about hot dogs, which Baba Yaga famously loves.

1174
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 3: And you can listen to any of my podcasts about

1175
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 3: extremely specific pop on cool Zone Media.

1176
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 2: I ever heard of it, Sophie. Anything you want to plug,

1177
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: just follow.

1178
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: At clo Zone Media on Instagram and Twitter for all

1179
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:15,280
Speaker 1: the all the things. And then and then, and then Margaret,

1180
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 1: Robert Evans and myself will be doing a special live stream,

1181
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,680
Speaker 1: I believe, on December eighth. More details to come, yay,

1182
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 1: but it's going to be a good time.

1183
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 2: Yay.

1184
01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 3: Hell yeah.

1185
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 2: And if you want to read my Fight Demons and

1186
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 2: Quip book, uh, the first one is called The Lamb

1187
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 2: Will Slaughter the Lion and the second one is called

1188
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 2: The Barrel, we'll send what it may. And yes, I

1189
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:43,280
Speaker 2: realize I named my books things that no one remembers.

1190
01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 2: But the Lamb will Slaughter the Lion or just like

1191
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 2: Margaret Killjoy books, we'll probably do that for you as

1192
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 2: a blue cover.

1193
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 3: But you're Joy book now.

1194
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a cool cover and you can hear us

1195
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 2: next week when we you talk about more things. Bye

1196
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: Bye bye.

1197
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1198
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1199
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us

1200
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1201
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.