WEBVTT - Day Two From Milken Global Conference 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanivik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 clus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.479 Bloomberg Business weekend iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:25.439 can also listen to our radio show at two pm 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:28.400 Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on YouTube 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:32.159 search Bloomberg Global News. Do you are listening to Bloomberg 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.680 Business Week cal Master along with Tim Stanivic live at 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.120 the Milk and Institute Global Conference here on the West 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.440 coast um. And you know what's interesting is we did 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:44.040 talk with Mark Jenkins ahead of Global Credit Carlisle Group 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.360 earlier big players in the credit markets, and he talked 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.919 about making credit right private, uh, you name it, more 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:52.120 accessible to investors. And our next guest is working on 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:56.040 making alternative asset classes more accessible as well. Matt Brown 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.080 is the founder and CEO of CASE. He joins us 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.800 here at the can Institute Global Conference. Matt, it's really 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:04.480 great to have you on the show. You've been really 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.920 busy over the last couple of days. Yeah, it's been 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.800 a it's been a great couple of days. Uh. This 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.160 theme of democratizing finance has really, uh just been a 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.360 big front and center topic for the for the conference. 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.000 We'll take us into your panel yesterday because you moderated 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.720 a panel with people like Gene Case Cathy would Carol, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.280 who you're speaking to? What in just a couple of hours, right, exactly? 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:28.440 What were some big takeaways from from what you learned? 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.440 You know, I think the real big theme there was, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.720 you know, inclusion, making sure that we have a financial 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:38.839 system that actually allows all participants. Uh. It was about decentralization. 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.880 It was about removing the intermediaries like big banks and 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.600 brokerage firms and allowing participants uh to have direct interaction 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.280 with each other to reduce cost and efficiency and increased efficiency. Um. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:54.200 But overall it was a fascinating conversation. Kathy would really 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.040 uh dug into kind of democratizing access for individual investors, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.440 young and stirs, the millennials. Um, we're just living the 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.880 whole different world than I grew up in It's interesting. 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.800 I just got off a panel talking with heads in 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.840 the M and A world and and some of your 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.840 established players, whether it's a Deutch, a bank or city group, uh, 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:16.840 and talking about fintech and the up starts, you know, 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.640 and obviously they're talking their book a little bit. But 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.600 the idea that you know, there's incredible regulatory oversight over 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.000 the investment space, and many would say that that's necessary 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.560 to make sure that investors aren't unduly or folks who 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.480 tapped the financial system right that they are protected. So 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.560 how do the up starts? How are they because there's 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.919 I think there's a feeling that the regulatory environment isn't 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.959 keeping up with it and maybe understand the risks or 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:42.919 the benefits. Yeah, there's a big there's a big feeling 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.000 around that. Just to take a step back, you know, ten, 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:49.919 well thirty years ago, especially around alternative investments or private 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.960 funds or private credit, the SEC and the government's position 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.639 was that, you know, you have to be wealthy enough 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:57.960 that you can lose some money in these types of 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.480 investment credit and credit investor. And as a result, what 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.560 they effectively did was exclude a huge population of you know, 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:10.280 the US and internationally from participating in alternative investments. What's 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.920 happening today is I think there's been a relook at 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.120 that and they're realizing now that alternative investments, including private 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:19.440 credit as you mentioned, are doing their job. They have 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:22.320 a really a role in a portfolio, and done the 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.240 right way, they can really preserve and grow wealth over time. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.360 And to exclude and not allow the democratization of these 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.400 types of investments is not the right idea. How do 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:31.800 you do that in the right way? Though? What what 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.160 regulators need to do in order to make sure that 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.400 if people who can't afford to lose money aren't aren't 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.560 excluded from these alternative asset classes. It's really coming down 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:46.000 to certification, education, scalable education. Fintech as we think about, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.960 oftentimes does allow access to to financial products. But fintech 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.200 can bring a lot of different things in a scalable format, 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.760 the most of which could be education. So really you 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.360 can't talk about democratizing access to investments and aless you're 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.840 talking about educating a broad group of new participants who 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.000 are going to be making investments, so they're going in 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.360 with open eyes. You look at Robin Hood and some 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.880 of the read at some of the kind of the 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:15.360 concern there is the gamification of these platforms and maybe 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:17.440 not everyone knows exactly what's going on and can they 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:19.279 lose too much money? So you're going to see a 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.120 real rise of education as kind of a cornerstone in this. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.160 There's education, there's education, and there's education and others. You 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:26.760 can go to website and read some stuff. You know, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.320 it's very passive, but does it need to be something 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.680 that's much more formal so that you've got to pass 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.760 some form of a financial literacy test that you're driving 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.760 to some extent, so that you really know you're talking 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.840 about your welfare, your investments, your money that you might 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.080 need to you know, live on. So the SEC right 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:49.479 now is currently amended the accreditation role to include a 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.280 new lane for education, and the way they're determining that 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:56.640 is based on your uh, your your profession, your experience, 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:01.120 your licenses in the finance industry u UM. So they're 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:04.360 already moving away from net worth is just the only criteria, 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.719 and now they're saying, you know what, if you're smart 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.080 enough and you can certify that, then you should be 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.880 able to participate. So that's that first step in removing 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.640 a net worth requirement, but you're right, it's actually about 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.800 making sure you can prove that the work has been 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.840 done right. Is there any concern that there could be 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.680 I don't know, people getting around these guard rails and 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.840 some ugly situations that cause regulators think differently about this, Well, 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.120 what regulators are doing around robin Hood right now. Yeah, 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.479 it is a concern, and so our company hasn't reached 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:40.800 out to the end investor. Were a B two B platform, 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.760 So our client who uses our platform to access alternative 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.560 investments is a financial advisor, professional investment and r I 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.440 A exactly, so we are all we do have our 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.880 concerns as well. So we're watching it very closely, watching 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:55.440 what the government's doing, and we want to be part 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.400 of the solution on that. And I do wonder if 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:00.120 it's some of these all the investments, is it is? 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:01.840 If it's a fun you're getting a piece of it right, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:03.520 so that you're not all in and that you would 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.080 do some of your risk. It's a diversified pool, but 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:07.599 liquid it is a big point as well. I know 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.359 we're kind of about a time here, but you know, 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.520 are you locking your capital up for a month a 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.600 week for five years or ten. So, but you think 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.760 about if universities and endowments wanted to be able to 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.520 tap these all investments because they because in the search 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.520 for yield, but they've also got to make sure that 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.000 those endowments are there for the future. You have to 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:26.680 wonder about opening up to a wider pool up investors. 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.560 It's basically what we're talking about. Hey, Matt Brown, thank you, Hey, 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.679 thank you very much. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.840 with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.000 Bloomberg Radio. We want to at bit about spacks because 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:41.880 they've had their ups. They've had their downs this year, 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:43.720 no doubt about it. Uh. And we have a great 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.320 guest to talk about. Orlando Bravo is founder and managing 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.160 partner at Toma Bravo. He's with us at the Milk 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.440 and Institute Global Conference right now. First of all, how's 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.560 your conference going. I mean we talked a lot about yesterday. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:56.600 How really feels like things are kind of getting back 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.400 to normal, albeit with masks on. Well, First, thanks so 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.719 much for having me. The conference is awesome. Think about it. 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.120 We're here in l A. A lot of it is outside. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.480 The weather's perfect. I've gotten to see some of our 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.840 limited partners that I haven't seen in two to three years, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.760 so some of the old friends, and also meet a 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.680 lot of new people. So it's just been great, one 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.240 meeting after the other, right, fifteen minute meetings and then 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.440 trying to see as many people face to face, like 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.920 it's remarkable, right, unbelievable. So okay, let's talk about SPACs 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:28.800 because I was looking at some of the indexes. They're 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.920 down as as a group about ten percent so far 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.600 this year. They're down about if you look at certain 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.920 indexes from the mid February hype, where are we because 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:40.520 people are talking about the death of SPACs um and 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:42.600 as to mention earlier, I mean, these are cycles that 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.880 things go through. SPACs are not a new investment vehicle exactly. 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:49.000 Sparks are going to come back. They are They've been 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.800 around for whatever five or thirty years. But why do 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:56.600 why do we think that there was this incredible craze 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.560 to SPACs. It's because I think knowlogy companies, there's so 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.440 much innovation and so much new business creation and so 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.000 many tech companies being performed that are getting to scale 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.200 that the financial markets are trying to adapt of how 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.440 can we absorb all these new assets into the market 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:15.040 because we're not seeing a lot of I I mean, 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:16.920 we saw the I p O market fall off a 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.600 little bit, right it didn't now it's back. Now it's back. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.680 But I'm just saying that you know that there's alternatives 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.920 for growing public here, and the alternatives are great. Direct 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.920 listings are great, and this fact provides a great alternative 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:31.600 because it really really does is it allows a company 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.560 to be able to openly talk about its projections with 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.400 its investors. Every investor think about it. If you're looking 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.199 to buy a company, if you're if we are together 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:42.280 going to buy a private company, wouldn't we like to 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.040 sit down with management and say, let's see what you've 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:46.400 done in the past, and how do you think about 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.280 next year and the following year, and how does your 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.440 operating plan and strategic plan aligned with that financial plan 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.199 that you have. It gives you so much insights as 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.280 to how management thinks about their own business. But are 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.800 you concerned at all that there is a lack of 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.560 quality companies to be acquired by SPACs that are out 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:07.360 there looking for targets Right now? I'm always concerned about quality. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.800 What ended up happening as well with this pac boom 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.760 is a number of companies went public through SPACs or 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.839 merged with SPACs that are venture capital companies that are 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:24.640 really young companies. Now. Retail investors in particular participated in 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.200 that because the regulatory environment doesn't allow them to participate 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.840 in venture capital and private equity, so they rush to 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:33.439 this market and then the regulators get worried that, oh, 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.040 they're gonna lose money, or these companies have lack of 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.680 a track record, or they're gonna miss their numbers. Now 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.480 we'll see what ultimately happens. But one of the things 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.840 you said at the beginning is SPACs are out of favor. Now, 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.360 of course nobody likes backs, but the trading should be 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:50.360 the underlying company. Forget of whether it was a SPAC 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:52.839 or I p O or direct listing. It's what matters 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.240 is the underlying business. And is that what happened though, Orlando, 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:56.760 in your view that we get a little floppy in 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.120 terms of looking at the end of underlying fundamentals, the 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.920 basics of like understanding the business and the growth trajectory. Absolutely, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.680 there is a It takes about nine months for a 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.920 de SPAC to begin trading on its own merits versus 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.000 from the fact that it was a SPAC to begin with. 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.040 And that's an inefficiency in the market that shouldn't exist. 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.240 But is there something that the industry needs to get 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.720 I just came through a panel um of folks in 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:23.400 the M and A world and saying, you know, we'll 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.240 get through this, okay, but just got about forty seconds 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:27.640 left here. But we need to as an industry get 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.920 together and maybe set some rules, some understandings of what 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:33.440 a SPACT needs to be. I give you two great 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:37.480 rules that we should have intwods on one's transparency, So 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.640 the SPAC should be able to post these are my 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:46.000 projections or our projections and every quarter compare to how 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.600 you were doing every quarter. Just show that in the 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.280 front page or show that in your communications. And the 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.640 other one it is alignment. Bring the best of private 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.680 equity to SPACs, which is the sponsor has to invest 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.520 significant capital in that pipe sub get in the game. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.959 Absolutely all right, That would certainly be a game changer. Orlando, 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.680 thank you so much. So he scratched the surface, but 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.000 so hopefully we can continue in the future. Orlando, Bravo. 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.000 Founder imaging partner of Tomo Bravo joining us here at Milkin. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.719 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.640 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Can I just 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:21.600 tell you you know? At Milking yesterday I hosted a 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.880 panel and it was all about the role of technology 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.920 and longevity. We're talking about aging. One of the panelists 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.120 studies the brain. We talked a lot about what happens 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.200 as we age and what we can do about it. 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:33.760 You gotta tell the panelist about Sarah McBride's next story. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.880 I am totally. It's in the special double issue. It's 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.439 the Persuasion issue of Bloomberg Business Week. So let's get 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.600 to it. Let's get to it with Sarah McBride, venture 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.920 capital reporter at Bloomberg News. She joins us on the 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.360 phone from San Francisco. Sarah's story what a brain scan 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.440 reveals about the science of persuasion. It's in the current 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.840 issue of Bloomberg Business Week, which Carol mentioned is the 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.080 persuasion issue. Sarah, neuroscientists have come a long way and 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.280 understanding how and when people come around to a different 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.319 point of view. So what exactly happens to our brain 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.280 when we change our mind. Okay, well they have come 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.080 a long way, but there's still a long way to go. 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:13.160 It sounds like that particular area of study is really 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:17.400 tricky for hero scientists, and that's because other things we 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.120 do are more localized to one or just a few 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:24.360 parts of the brain. For example, if you move a limb, 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:29.480 whereas something that requires spot like persuasion, is spread out 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.040 across so many parts of the brain. It's actually much 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.040 harder to understand exactly what's going on. And this was 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:40.840 a lesson in brain science and anatomy for me. I 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:42.920 had to learn about all these different parts of the 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:48.000 brain that get involved. And um, they're asking really interesting 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:53.360 questions like if you're analyzing something, how do you separate 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:56.720 those neurons to the neurons you lose used in memory, 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.000 like when you're trying to remember what you analyzed previous 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:06.040 flee or what your previous opinion was. And um, they 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.959 scanned my brain, which was fascinating, and they're looking at 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.840 areas like the ventral medial prefrontal cortex and the central 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.640 strie itum and all these things which are kind of 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:23.120 spread out in different areas across the brain and reflect persuasion. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:27.920 I mean we're talking about yeah, go ahead, jail, come 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:30.240 on in. Joel Weber's with us Bloomberg Business Week editor 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.360 back Uh in New York, Sarah, I just have to 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.480 thank you for lending us your your brain. Um and 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:42.920 like actually living up published photo of your brain. Uh So, 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.440 so what was the whole process, Like, what was the 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.440 whole process like to to have have your brain scanned 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:57.079 for the purposes of persuasion. So I've never done anything 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.439 like this, and um, I was hoping that they would 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.720 have something very interesting to say about my brain. But 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.440 they were like, yeah, it's very similar to the forty 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.000 five other brains and we looked at for this study. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:17.680 Brain is special, right, Um So I had to get 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:19.520 in this f m R. I don't know if we've 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.040 ever done that before, but it's just a weird experience. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.920 You're in this big cylinder. It's very noisy. You can't 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:30.200 really move a whole lot in there. My head was 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.960 kind of drapped in I had They even gave me 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.920 a little alarm unless I suddenly got plastrophobic and needed 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.560 to come out. But they kind of arranged these mirrors 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.640 and screens, so that I had this sensation that's having 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.920 more room in there than what's actually the case. And then, 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:51.360 believe it or not, I just got to watch cartoons. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:58.040 So it's like the greatest assignment ever. Careful you're talking 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.280 to your boss here, so system so as you're watching cartoons, like, 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.280 let's let's kind of get to the point where this, uh, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.560 you know, becomes a business story again, what what what 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.440 are the potential takeaways for you know, the frontier of 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.920 this research and what it means for for where where 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.240 persuasion and business could go. Yeah, so they wanted me 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.640 to watch normalized behavior, which was by day, we're watching uh, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.280 screening cartoons, whereas things like being unhealthy or not taking 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.920 care of the environment were just standard in the cartoon. 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.240 And then they showed me persuasive messages to see that 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:41.200 I just kind of been showing the opposite. What would 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.760 my brain be doing when I lift? Now shown Okay, 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:49.560 you should exercise or you should recycle. So, um, the 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:55.960 implications for this are pretty big for anybody trying to 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.840 sell somebody something, or a politician trying to get some 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.920 any to vote for them. So there's actually millions of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:09.240 dollars being invested in this science, and um, the hope 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:14.760 is that UH will kind of know exactly what parts 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.760 of the brain are affected when you're persuaded, which means 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.560 not only will people be able to better persuade you, 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.080 but the general public will also have a better idea 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.880 of what's going on to if the science will kind 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.440 of build up on both sides. Just so it sounds 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:35.400 that listening about marketers, right, like sales and marketing, like 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.760 just think about That's my question for you, Sarah. And 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.560 I'm wondering when you reported this story, when when you 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:44.080 went through this experience, if it makes you think differently 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.040 about the way that you see advertisements, the way that 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:48.400 people try to sell you something. I mean, are you 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:50.560 are you taking a Do you have a different way 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.840 of thinking about that? Now? Oh God, I've always been 0:16:53.920 --> 0:17:01.320 so successible to advertising this tradiction. Now I do kind 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.960 of think about it, like what little things they might 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.080 be tweaking. And I hadn't devoted much back to this 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:12.000 idea of your social conditioning and what happens if people 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.239 all around you think one thing. You know how much 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.000 harter it is to change your mind about that? And 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.679 then there are very fascinating things they're studying, like what 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:27.639 happened if you're pretending to agree with something whereas deep 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.040 down you don't really, but you wanted the social credibility 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.920 that goes along with agreeing with your friends. So there 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:39.320 are so many layers of this. It's really nuanced and 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.800 got fascinating, you know, sir, I just wanted to say 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.280 when I when I saw your brain, I was like, 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.520 that looks like someone who's very perceptible to persuasive sales pitches. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:56.720 This is like a lot of home shopping at night. No, Like, 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.320 show me an ice cream cone and I'll immediately think, 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.520 oh my gosh, that looks delicious. So how much more 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.560 research do we expect to be done before this might enter? Uh, 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.480 you know, the next the next phases of applications. Well 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.760 it's one of these things where they've made tremendous strides, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.240 but then it's just kind of showing them how much 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:21.520 farther they have to go. So um, each piece of 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:27.920 information they Jane is just one more step. But advertising 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:32.240 is constantly being tweaked based on what we know and 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:34.600 what people think they know about the brain. So I 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.040 think elements of it will be reflected in advertising and 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.440 marketing um in just a few years, and it will 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.720 get better and better the deeper they can go into 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.159 the brain and the more they learn about it. I'd 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:50.200 say ten years. I wonder if Jill walked in, would 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.480 they make him watch like the Squid Game or something. 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:54.840 I can't think of a worse thing to do, And 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:56.879 put me in an f R M R I machine 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.280 and make me watch a squid game like no Ane 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:03.560 on Squid Game. I'd pushing that button to get me 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.640 out of there as quickly as possible. Oh, he knows. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.440 I want those images. Al right, guys, we gotta run 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.040 venture capital reporter at Bloomberg New Sarah McBride. Check out 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.520 her story What a brain scan reveals about the science 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.160 of persuasion. This is fascinating. She of course was joining 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:18.800 us with Bloomberg Business We get at her toe up. 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.040 That's in the current special double issue, the Persuasion Issue, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.960 a business week magazine. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:31.080 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Well. 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.399 The stock is up nearly two percent this year. The 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.680 company CEO is known to retail investors as the silver Back, 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:38.920 because they are the apes. We are talking none other 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:43.160 than Adam Aaron. He's the chairman and CEO of AMC Entertainment. 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.600 He joins us now here at the Milk and Institute 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.439 Global Conference. Adam, it's good to see you. It's been 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.600 a long time, Tim, Nice see you again. How are 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.440 you great? Um? You know, if you had told me 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.600 I run AMC now for almost six years and the 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.040 company that I joined was a second largest movie theater 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.360 chain the United States. A year and a half later, 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:09.000 it was the largest movie theater chain in the world. Uh, 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:13.399 everything was just happening, just fine. And if you told 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:19.040 me in February of that we would somehow relive as 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.760 a people on this planet the Spanish flu epidemic of 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:29.680 nineteen eighteen and nineteen nineteen, I just couldn't have imagined, 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:35.000 in this era of modern medicine that we would in 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:37.159 our near term go through the last year and a 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:45.480 half of disease and lockdown and mask wearing and uh uh, 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:50.640 just think about all the loss and pain that has 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.720 been suffered on this planet. Everyone has financially sacrificed, everyone 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.440 has been overloaded with stress, except the people who work 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:03.240 at claros. They're they're their business is really fooling nice people. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.920 Though they helped us with our safe and clean protocols 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.679 at AMC. Theaters um and many people got sick and 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.560 many people died. But that's only part of it. Uh. 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:20.040 And that was the story of where AMC uh did 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.640 everything in our power to have financial collapse, but we did. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:27.400 We raised billions of dollars in the equity and debt markets, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.160 got incredible assistance from our theater landlords and our lenders, 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:36.600 and we entered one knowing that we could survive this 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.040 pandemic no matter what came. Then. Well, we would never 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:45.480 have predicted was that retail investors would descend on AMC 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.560 the way they have this year. Uh. And so yeah, 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.920 it's been it's been a fascinating two years. Needless to sign, 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:55.399 They certainly have descended on AMC. And you announced earlier 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.520 this year program for retail investors free popcorn and platform 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:00.800 for them on the website. Does that seems like they're 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:02.680 losing a little bit of momentum. The folks at Vanda 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:04.919