WEBVTT - Kurt Andersen & Aftyn Behn 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.640 today's best minds. And a majority of Americans have a 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.920 negative view of billionaires spending more money to buy elections, 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:18.680 according to a Washington Post IPSOS poll. We have such 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.600 a great show for you today. Author of Evil Geniuses 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:26.040 Kurt Anderson stops by to talk about Trump, saying the 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.400 Democrats should be hung. Then we'll talk to Aten ben 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:34.280 about her run for Congress in a swing district in Tennessee. 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.559 But first the news, Milly. Let's remember the Heritage Foundation 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:41.800 are not known for being very woke. They wrote Project 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.760 twenty twenty five and particularly they really really really do 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.080 not like immigration. Guess what. They're not happy with mister Trump. 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.640 Yeah, they are not happy with mister Trump. This is 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:58.360 a really interesting phenomenon because we talk a lot about 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.720 the Trump administration being bad at what they do. We 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:07.000 don't talk a lot about the Trump administration being so 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.559 bad at what they do that it being the only 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.200 thing standing between us and complete disaster. This is extremely important. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.640 The Trump administration is being blasted by the Heritage Foundation 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.640 for how little they're deporting people and we see this 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.440 with Christy Gnome, is that they're very interested in the 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:30.240 optics of deportation, but they're not so interested in the 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:36.400 actual deportation. And so we find ourselves in a moment 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.920 where the only thing that is helping us, the poor, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.640 sad American people who are being pretty much we're sort 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:49.040 of victims of this Republican admin is the fact that 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.920 this crew is really bad at what they do. And 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:54.640 in fact, it's like an amazing thing, what Heritage says. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.800 And by the way, I am in no way endorsing Heritage, really, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:01.160 you me certainly not says. I mean, this is like 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:04.360 some good writing. I respect good writing. The American people 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:10.600 voted for mass deportations, they're getting mass communications instead, ha ha. 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:16.040 Mike cow the Poet Laureate of the Heritage Foundation, Samali. 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:17.840 One of the things I think is funniest about the 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.000 Trump administration is basically, since like let's call it day two, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.839 they've been like, we need a little patience with this economy. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.200 Yesterday we had JD. Van saying the thing that I 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.200 had asked for the American people is a little bit 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.519 of patience. Why do we need patients? Because Crypto, which 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.560 apparently our whole economy is built. 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:35.720 On now pretty much. 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.320 It wiped out four hundred billion dollars in wealth this week. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:45.680 I am just completely shocked that crypto is so unstable. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:47.600 You know how many people we've had on this podcast 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.320 where they've been like, you know, crypto's just a scam. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.400 And by the way, I say this to my husband, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.080 who's very smart, I said, crypto is basically a scam, right, 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.760 and he goes, well, so is the dollar. So I mean, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.920 I guess you could go back and say that. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.920 You're not doing well in your argument with it's what about. 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.840 ISA, Yeah, exactly, though we like it. It's not just 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:12.120 Bitcoin though, virtually all coins. All of these fake currencies 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.560 are crashing at the same time. So it turns out 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.160 I wonder how trump coin is doing. I'm sure trump 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.120 coin is much much more stable because it's backed by 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.280 the United States of Trome our King. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:25.480 I was going to say, for as long as the 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.560 Saudias are making money on oil, I feel like it's 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.240 a little more stable than many others. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.880 Now, all of these coins are crashing because they're and 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:36.040 and by the way, let's just add in someone who 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.200 knows what they're talking about. This unlimited fun. CEO Bob 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.240 Elliott notes Friday morning, the selloff and bitcoin is mirroring 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.880 recent weakness and stocks with much more extreme action because 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.240 it's so unstable. But in fact, this is possibly the 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.160 beginning of more of a bear and less of a ball. Mark. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.080 Yeah. I can't imagine when you withhold jobs reports, why 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.160 people lose faith in the economy and want to hold 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.080 their money from silly things. I can't imagine. 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:05.119 The September jobs came in better than expected. Nobody knows 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:09.160 about October or November, but September good for September. That 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:09.920 was months ago. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.640 Smike. When we last left Speaker of the House Mike Johnson, 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.480 he seemed a little shook. I may have made some 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.000 disparaging comments about his demeanor. Well, it seems that I 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.559 was picking up a cent of lack of confidence because 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.720 he's going to make it harder for discharge petitions to happen. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.520 Yeah, so this is like he's so spiteful. I like 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.719 his pettiness. First of all, I think let's just remember 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:37.640 that discharge petitions are extremely hard to get past. In fact, 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.479 Marjorie Taylor Green during their press conference, said that there 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.880 is a four percent chance of getting a discharge petition 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:45.400 which succeeds. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.599 Look at you quoting your best ee. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.479 Oh shut the fuck anyway. But the point is they're 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.080 very hard to get to succeed because basically you have 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:57.880 to go around the leadership and they're set up in 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.440 a way to have trouble succeeding. Now, Mike Johnson is 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:06.120 pretty mad because he got God right, like Thomas Massey 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.719 and Rocan were able to get him. They were able 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.640 to get this piece of legislation around him, and now 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.320 he's he's salty, he's bitter, he's mad. And again it's 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.960 worth realizing, like Mike Johnson is not good at this. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.320 Mike Johnson got this job because Donald Trump needed someone 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.640 who would just sign off on all his bullshit, right, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.520 because there were other people who were in line for 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.520 this job who were insufficiently sycophantic, and those guys did 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.920 not get this job. And so we find ourselves in 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:41.440 this situation. I think that it is very stupid that 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.680 Mike Johnson wants to go after discharge petitions. Now, Mike 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.960 Johnson is also doing this because he he's the writing 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.360 on the wall Hall. This is like such a function 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.600 of him being a bad leader. There's another discharge petition 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:57.360 that just hit the two hundred and eighteen signature threshold. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.760 You have to like basically a veto provement. It's not 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.480 quite a mutail proof for Jori, but you need to 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.279 have two hundred and eighteen. You have to have quite 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:07.200 a lot of Congressmen sign on to this in order 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.240 to work. And now there's another one. A discharge petition 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.120 is two hundred and eighteen and it's led by Jared Golden. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.960 Jared Golden is this rural Democrat who's not running again. 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:24.920 He is very concerned with working people, and so it 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:29.559 would restore union rights for thousands of federal workers. It 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.400 has only and again this is important to realize and 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:36.919 also a function of Mike Johnson. Only seven discharge petitions 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:41.000 have successfully signed into law since nineteen thirty five, but 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.560 three of them have come in just last two years. 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:49.040 Wild So you might remember Trump's loyalty question for federal workers. 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.880 Federal workers are now asking a judge to block them 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.800 on their application questions. Because you'll be shocked here, this 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:55.960 is pretty fucking silly. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.160 This is like not what we do in this country. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:00.000 And this is one of the problems that Trump World 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:04.960 has is that they're constantly trying to figure out a 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.720 way to do like these like low key authoritarian things 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.080 in an American democracy. And this is a great example 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.080 of how it doesn't work for them, Like there is 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.600 no world in which judges are going to be like, yes, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:22.880 you can do loyalty oaths and again like this is 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.640 a problem with Trump World, is that they constantly are 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:29.480 trying to do things that are like not within the 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:37.320 norms and institutions. Kurt Anderson is the author of Evil 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:42.680 Geniuses and Fantasyland. At Kurt Anderson him Molly, I'm going 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.040 to read you a quote about hanging democrats. Let's start 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.320 with this Reuters. This is a tweet from Ed o'keith 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:54.080 at CBS per Reuters all caps. Trump does not want 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:59.800 to execute members of Congress, Comma white House says, discuss. 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.680 Well and in their in their walk backs, such as 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:08.840 they were from miss Levitt on it's it's always been no. 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.960 But which is to say, you know they were, Yes, 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.960 they were basically traders and horrible is as awful. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.760 First of all, so this comes from Donald Trump saying 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.880 retweeting tweets that said he wanted to x write it 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.360 is this from a retweet or is this from well 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:26.920 he said. 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:31.360 He said they were seditious and treasonous. These senators and 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.880 congress people got together who who were military veterans, some 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:40.040 of them veterans, saying, you know, we're just reminding everybody 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.000 in the service and they are all trained on this 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.000 from you know, not just officers, but enlisted people that 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.640 you know, there are such a thing as illegal orders 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:53.720 and you are obliged not to follow them. Now, So 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.559 that's how they were doing, and you know, you know, good, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:00.600 all right, and and he wasn't saying, you know the 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.520 thing And then the thing is about that McCallum on 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.080 Fox which you're interviewing Jason Crow said, well, there were 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.280 any specifics, what were your specifics that they should disobey, 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.440 Which is just a stupid question on so many levels, 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:15.959 because of course they're not going to say and here 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:18.560 are the specific things that Trump may do that you 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.199 should disobey the words so and if it said well 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:25.040 the specifics of like maybe you should rethink, maybe you're 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.520 going to be in trouble for blowing up these random 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.960 votes in the Caribbean, that would be worse, much worse, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.280 and interfer you with an ongoing military operation. So anyway, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:38.559 it's ridiculous, it won't happen. It's just it's just more dangerous, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.120 extreme crazy bullshit that it could indeed inspire. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.800 Someone someone to do something really bad, to. 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:46.400 Do something terrible. It is one more thing that we 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.600 are supposed to jump at and go, oh, my god. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.319 And of course, in this case, because it is in 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:57.840 the realm of to me, his most horrific and frightening instincts, 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.240 which you know, we must take literally as well curiously, 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:08.000 which is this militarization of American life and American politics, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.840 an American governance, and American everything else. He is serious 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.840 about that, obviously. And so this particular thing isn't going 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:19.400 to happen anytime soon. But it shouldn't it by itself, 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.400 as seeing I should not have a long life as 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:23.240 a thing we talk about. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.760 I want to direct you though, to the idea here, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.839 which is that members of Congress who served in the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.720 military did this video saying don't do a legal stuff 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:36.520 you're not supposed to, which seems like an obvious kind 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:40.960 of thing, but is very necessary when Trump is operating 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.559 the federal government and Donald Trump says it's edition the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.480 answer to sedition would be not now. But it used 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.800 to be that that was a crime punished by punishable 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.920 by some kind of military execution. And Trump is saying 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:02.160 this because he's angry. Now. I wonder if you could 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.680 talk about the world in which a person like this 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:12.040 comes from, because you have covered this world nauseum, especially 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.840 during the time that Donald Trump was becoming Donald Trump. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.600 It feels like something from someone who has studied at 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.040 the foot of a guy called roy Cone. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.840 Absolutely, And I was thinking of somebody else connected or 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.160 at loose to contemporary roy Cones when I was thinking 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.640 about Trump and this stuff today, which is who that 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.439 will get into our other conversation. 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.600 That I think, you know, wait on Moley, but be 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.800 scary was really effectively part of the roy Cone advice, 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.520 along with deny and attack, attack and all those things. 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.280 But be as scary as you can. And so I 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:49.280 mean he has said before. I mean, this is really 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.440 not the first time he's gone to these places like 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.600 General Millie that you know, Charmer and the Joint Chiefs. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.280 Under Trump in his first term he has said should 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.480 be hung as a trader. And this the other thing 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:04.120 about this, it's not new that he does this. What's new, 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.720 of course, is the last ten months where he's sending 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.240 ice certainly and also uniform military people into cities to 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.679 hang around, to scare, to show he's a strong man. 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.599 So I barely want to get into the political ramifications 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:21.319 of him doing this, which is to say, well, well, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.240 it won't this drive some people that think like he 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.760 is not we've got to get rid of him. Maybe, 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.480 but we'll see. I don't know, but it is. It is, 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.600 as you say, it's purely his angry thing. He saw 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:39.880 this video. It's a well made, serious ad short and 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:44.120 to the point, doesn't mention him, doesn't mention this administration, 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.120 doesn't mention any specific things that this administration has done 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.840 in terms of sending military in the cities or blowing 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:55.760 up random boats that are ostensibly drug traffickers boats. But 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.439 it goes without saying so, and that he knew, he 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.240 understood where it was coming from, and I'm sure he 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.000 understood how potent it is, how affective, how these National 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:12.439 Security CIA veteran people from Lysislock into Mark Kelly and 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:17.880 Jason Crow and all the rest are really effective, you know, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:24.120 non weak, non left wing democratic lunatics in any sense speakers, 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.360 so he felt it and good. I'm glad he did, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.720 because it's it's a good thing. And again it was 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.319 whoever came up with this idea to me, among those Democrats, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.360 it was brilliant, brilliantly conceived and brilliantly done. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.679 So let's talk about the origin story of trump Ism 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.839 for a minute, because we find our man in, you know, 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:48.760 obsessed with cats, obsessed with Phantom of the Opera, obsessed 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.920 with the world, and which he comes oh. 0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:54.160 Interesting, interesting choices, which is you know, and I don't 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.720 want to get into any kind of homophobia on this, 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:01.040 but it is, it is these theory is important. And 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:05.040 indeed this kind of strong man view of I am King, 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.680 which you know, back in the day it's my magazine, 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.960 we used to make fun of him for imagining a 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.800 kind of kingly superhero, among other things, you know. And 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.160 I think of his origins and coming of age in 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.280 the nineteen seventy sixties and seventy eighties, and I think 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.120 of the dictators of the time, the people who actually 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.040 did do these you know, send in and execute people 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.760 who shoot down protesters and all those things. I think 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.400 of their esthetic because of what he's done in these 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.760 last weeks and months of tearing down the East wing 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.280 and putting up this, and putting up these gold do 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.600 dads all over the Oval office, and now putting up 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.400 gold dude ads in his new residential Hall of Fame 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:52.240 on the west Wind Colonnade, which is insane on many levels. 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.000 But it's in addition to itsself moarification. You know this, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:00.720 this shiny golden metal sign and the shiny golden do 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.120 dads around the portraits of presidents. And by the way, 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.880 why do you a need it b need to call 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.400 it a hall of fame? Well, presidents are all famous. 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.200 I could go on, but it is so typical of 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:19.040 these kinds of Middle Eastern Southwest Asian worldwide, the dictators 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.400 who build giant palaces to themselves, right, and you know 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:29.880 the esthetic of the super gold rococo shiny golden thing 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.720 is his esthetic. You know. Look, from the beginning eighties 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.040 is when we started spy magacine. Right, apologies for ranting, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.720 but it's it's you're treating me into my into recovered memories. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:45.160 But you know he finishes Trump Tower eighty four, moves 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:53.040 into his incredibly lavishly golden, cheesy vulgar triplex which is 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.680 one of the one of the main sources of what 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.000 we started calling him again and again and again and 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.200 again back in spy Magacine, which is short fingered Bulgarian 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.920 Donald Trump. Right, it is this eighties rich guy of 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.960 a certain kind, of a certain old you know, it's 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.600 not just Long Island, but you know Long Island Queen's kind. 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.760 And you know he buys mar A lago In at 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:20.720 eighty five and starts, you know, tarting it up more 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.800 he becomes. And this is the thing I always have 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.920 thought about him. In connection to this gets back to 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.600 the Roy Kohane connection is Liberaci. You may be too young, 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.480 Molly to remember Rocchi, but he was this extraordinary Las 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.440 Vegas pianist singer who had been famous for decades, really 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.800 famous at a really big Vegas star and incredibly campy, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.720 and of course was not an out gay man, but 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:53.080 was a high league gay man, you know, big hair, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:57.920 new and fancy clothes and gold and everything. Played a 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.680 golden piano on stage. I encourage any listeners who don't 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.040 know who he is to get images of him and 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.879 his surroundings and ooling and interiors. It's very Donald Trump. 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.440 It is extremely Donald Trump. He died in nineteen eighty seven, 0:17:12.840 --> 0:17:16.280 right shortly before he died as as by the way, 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:18.720 as Roy con was also dying, Trump went out of 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.480 his way to become friends with him, gave him a 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.199 condo at Trump Tower, went shopping with him. I mean 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.840 they were buddies, shopping buddies, and you know, and again 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.239 not just to say, oh he's vulgar, Well he is, 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.720 but it also has struck me all along and in 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:40.520 the Trump presidency, says part of his authentic seeming connection 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:45.120 to a large part of his builder base is this. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.160 I know it's elite of me. 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:48.760 But rich. Yeah, I know. 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:54.400 It's one bit of popular authentic populism. Yeah, cheesy taste. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:54.720 Right. 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.840 So anyway back to strong men, and they're aesthetic, you know, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:02.600 I think of the the Golden Palace dictators who are 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:06.280 what happens to them? Then oh they're deposed and they're 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:07.280 good regime. 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.560 Right. But I'm gonna I'm gonna prevent you from going there, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.840 and just we're going to just talk about for a 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.720 minute what the sort of mentality is. So we have 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.800 a seventy nineyear old Donald Trump. He comes from Roy Cohen, 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.080 he comes from a world of when they attack you, 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.280 you punch back twice as hard because you're a gangster, right, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.400 because you're a gangster. So I wonder, you know, clearly 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.920 this is not working on a broader scale. We see 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:38.760 this in America, right, they just got creamed in the 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.240 twenty twenty five cycle. We'd see you know, people like 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.280 Marjorie Taylor Green going like, maybe this is not what 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.119 I signed up for. Like this strikes me as the 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:54.760 sort of third act of this play. So I wonder 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.240 if you could inform us with some of the things 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.000 that happened in the first act that you think might 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.160 in some way shed a light on how this goes. 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.040 I mean, my man is seventy nine, it's been along, 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:13.399 you know, the last forty plus years have been rough 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:14.960 for all of us. 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.000 Well, in the first act, I mean he again he 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.760 was who he is then in terms of the bully, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:31.960 the lies, the gaudiness, the exaggerations beyond anything imaginable. All 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.280 that in his first act ended with his bankruptcies and 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:40.919 being close to personal bankruptcy. But certainly, you know, bankrupting 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:43.920 several of his casino businesses. So it ended with that, 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.120 and he was caned out of the picture. Except as 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.840 a guy who would attach his name to, you know, 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:56.040 apartment complexes around the country until he got his TV show, 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.280 which was of course, his The Apprentice, which was his 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.280 second act. So he went down and he was real, 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.680 He really went down. And you know, in a more 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:10.000 you know, an easily alter timeline, he would have disappeared 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.359 in the nineties and oughts, and you know, he was 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.720 Whatever happened to Donald Trump would be a thing said 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.680 in this century. It worked out differently because of reality TV, 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.840 which is, you know, in a larger sense, one of 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:22.760 the horrors of our age. 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.520 Do you think do you think the original sin of 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.879 trump Ism is reality television? 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:34.120 I think reality television was doing bad things to American culture. 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.359 That was part of the softening up the ground for 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.720 Donald Trump too, finally, after flirting with and saying he 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.600 was gonna run for president in nineteen eighty eight, in 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.119 ninety two, and ninety six, in two thousand, like he 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:51.320 was part of the softening up the ground to allow 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.359 that to happen and take place. Sure, the blurring of 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:01.919 reality and fiction into an indistinguishable mess was and and 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.879 was part of it, as was the ultimate American thing 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:10.520 which had started decades before which is being famous for 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.120 being famous. He became famous for being famous. He never Yeah, 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.120 he built a couple of buildings in the nineteen eighties, 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.600 you know, as New York was coming out of his bankruptcy. 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.440 Well good for him, but that's what he did. I mean, 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.080 you know, you know at starting with any who, you know, 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.320 he did it for nothing, well virtually nothing, four hundred 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:29.679 million dollars back then, which was a lot of money. 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:30.200 Yeah. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.680 But reality TV is you know, made him what he 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:40.320 used today and even beyond that terrible piece of collateral 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.160 damage of reality television was from from when it started 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:47.119 at the very turn of the century through this century, 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:49.800 but especially those first ten to fifteen years of this century, 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.280 you know, of net very bad thing for America. I 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.800 had no problems with, say The Bachelorette, but right, yeah, 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.400 you know reality TV is no good. 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:00.600 Yeah it's true. 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.360 But before you let me go, I have I have 0:22:05.400 --> 0:22:08.520 to give you my my again my or my full 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:10.920 reverie on the strong Man and what happens to them 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:13.440 and if so, if this is the third act, and 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.959 and and what I hope will happen, what I believe 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.919 will happen, is he will leave office and be more 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.000 of an angry lame duck as the three years gone. 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:24.640 God knows what he will do in the meantime as 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:29.920 he acts out and slips into whatever mental neurological abyss 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.359 he's He has always been on the precipice up, but 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:35.920 he will be out. However, there are many worst case 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.040 scenarios about how this might and could all end. And 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.440 again I don't hope that it ends in any any 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.520 way but the normal, constitutional, lawful way. But I think 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:49.600 just in terms of a I don't know, almost fictional, novelistic, 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:52.960 poetic parallel about these other strong men with their palaces 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:56.639 in Saddan, who's saying when you know fell and we 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.879 had weeks of looking at these golden palaces and Kada 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.720 after him and Assad a year ago. Almost now we're 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.040 almost at the anniversary of Asad being driven from what 0:23:06.119 --> 0:23:09.280 his palace is by his army failing to protect him 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:10.520 in his government regime. 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.600 Colepsic, Kurt Anderson, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:21.480 Jin Ben represents the fifty first district of Tennessee's House 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:25.560 of Representatives since twenty twenty three and is running in 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:29.960 the twenty twenty five special election for Tennessee's fourths congressional district. 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:32.120 So welcome to Fast Politics. 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:33.800