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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor. I'm An Eares and I'm

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Speaker 1: Lauren vocal Bam, and today we're talking about mayonnaise, one

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Speaker 1: of my least favorite foods. I have five foods I

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Speaker 1: don't like, and Mayo is close. Dr Peppers number one,

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Speaker 1: but Mayo's up there. I'm incredibly neutral about Mayo. I

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Speaker 1: am as neutral about Mayo as Mayo as a neutral object.

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Speaker 1: Dylan asked right before we started recording, like, what do

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Speaker 1: you guys think of Mayo? And I was like, it's fine, Well,

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Speaker 1: this is good. We can bring two different perspectives to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Although I am going to try to remain

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Speaker 1: neutral throughout. We'll see if I'm able to. Because m

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Speaker 1: it's intense and I didn't realize that so many people

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Speaker 1: have this emotion about it. I didn't either, actually, but

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Speaker 1: the subject of mayonnaise does crop up a lot in

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Speaker 1: the United States, particularly the American South, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: people do have opinions about it, whether they like it

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Speaker 1: or not, which brand they like. While we were in

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Speaker 1: Asheville talking to food journalist Mackenzie Lunsford, local chef by

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Speaker 1: the name of John Fleeer, kind of a chef celebrity

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Speaker 1: sort of human in town passed by and stopped to

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Speaker 1: chat a little bit, because you knows. Mackenzie and I

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Speaker 1: do not remember how it came up, but Mayo entered

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Speaker 1: the conversational fray. We talked about it in the studio

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Speaker 1: with a superproducer, Dylan, when we got back from that trip.

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Speaker 1: He also quizzed me real hard on my Manny's preference.

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Speaker 1: Did I forgot about that? That was the second time

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Speaker 1: that day Duke's Mayo had come up, and I had

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Speaker 1: not appreciated how serious a topic of debate it is. Oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: your Mayo preferences will make and break friendships in the South. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that whatever you said was the correct thing.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea I do now. I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: I was talking about getting a chat to yeah of

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Speaker 1: the Duke's Mayo. For the record, y'all, um, if you're

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Speaker 1: ever in the South and someone quizzes you about Mayo,

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Speaker 1: the correct answer is Duke's. Um. Yeah, I just say,

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Speaker 1: I'm like as Miracle whip mannis. It's definitely not. I

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Speaker 1: don't know much about Mandat's. It's a certain See, this

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Speaker 1: is why you don't like Mayo because you were exposed

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Speaker 1: to miracle Whip and that ruined everything forever. That miracle

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Speaker 1: Whip does ruin everything forever. Alright, well, I guess it's

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Speaker 1: it's too late for me, Sam from the North. They

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Speaker 1: grew up on Hellman's anyway, this is a inconsequential. John

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Speaker 1: Fleer's name actually comes up in an NPR article about

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Speaker 1: Duke's mayonnaise that we're going to talk about later. That's

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Speaker 1: as strong as opinions are. They were like, who can

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Speaker 1: we talk to you about this? I know? And speaking

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Speaker 1: of miracle Whip, does anyone else remember back when Stephen

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Speaker 1: Colbert was The Colbert Report and he got into that

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Speaker 1: beef with Miracle Whip. He made fun of one of

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Speaker 1: their ads on a segment and they fired back with

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Speaker 1: an ad campaign directly calling him out during the commercial

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Speaker 1: breaks for one of his shows, Like it ran during

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Speaker 1: his show, like they bought the ad space and then

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Speaker 1: oh wow, yes, so it would say we won't shut

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Speaker 1: up Stephen, We're too cool for you. Stephen, Like what's

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Speaker 1: going on here? Heck? All right, well points to miracle

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Speaker 1: Whip for that were a miracle whip and we will

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Speaker 1: not tone it down, Stephen. If there's a food that

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Speaker 1: I dislike. Miracle whip is it's high on that list,

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Speaker 1: So it's not manna. It's definitely heck and not mayonnaise.

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Speaker 1: More more on that in a second, but this does

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Speaker 1: bring us to our question mayonnaise, What is it gross? No,

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Speaker 1: it's fascinating, Well maybe gross in depending You're allowed to

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Speaker 1: think it's gross if you want to. Mayonnaise is a

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Speaker 1: thick sauce or dressing that appears a yellowish white and

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Speaker 1: creamy despite containing no dairy product. It's often used as

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Speaker 1: an ingredient in a cold mixed salads you know, chicken

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Speaker 1: or tuna salad, eggs salad, potato salad, perhaps an ingredient

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Speaker 1: in casseroles, or is a spread on sandwiches or alone

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Speaker 1: or mixed with other sauces as a dip for like

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Speaker 1: fries and other dippable things. It has a sort of

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Speaker 1: creamy mouth feel in a mild, slightly zippy flavor. I'm

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Speaker 1: leg getting a little nauseo. I was afraid. I was

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Speaker 1: trying to phrase is like as pleasantly as possible, because

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Speaker 1: I knew you would be upset about it. Um Scientifically,

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Speaker 1: it is really cool because because mayo is an emulsion

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Speaker 1: of an acid in an oil that are bound together

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Speaker 1: with the help of something bindy, and traditionally vinegar and

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Speaker 1: or lemon juice are the acid. Olive oil is the oil,

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Speaker 1: and the bindy thing is egg yolks. But you can

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Speaker 1: use any number of things. There are of types of mayonnaise. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can make it with basically anything that like physically

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Speaker 1: works and flavor it in lots of usually very subtle ways. Really,

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Speaker 1: the key part here is the emulsion. And we've talked

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Speaker 1: about emulsions a couple of times before in the show.

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Speaker 1: It's the term for an even mixture of two things

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Speaker 1: that generally do not mix, like oil and water, or

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Speaker 1: in this case, oil and vinegar or lemon juice, which

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Speaker 1: are flavored water. When you get right down to it,

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Speaker 1: I've never thought about it that way, but yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: slightly acidic water. So if you put equal parts of

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Speaker 1: oil and vinegar in a jar and shake them up,

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Speaker 1: they'll beat up and appear to mix for like a minute,

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Speaker 1: and then they'll start separating out. You've probably noticed this yourself.

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Speaker 1: And the thing here is that the molecules of water

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Speaker 1: that the vinegar is primarily made up of do not

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Speaker 1: want to hang out with the molecules of fat in

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Speaker 1: the oil, and like the feeling is mutual, opposite sides

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Speaker 1: of the dance floor, they're not getting along, but there

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Speaker 1: are plenty of molecules in nature that can make the

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Speaker 1: two play nice, sort of like the connecting pieces in

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Speaker 1: a set of tinker toys. Yeah, these connective molecules are emulsifiers.

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Speaker 1: They'll have one end that likes connecting up with water

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Speaker 1: and another end that can grab onto fats, and the

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Speaker 1: fats well still after they've connected up to these connecting

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Speaker 1: pieces repel against other molecules of water, but since they're

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Speaker 1: also attached to little bits of water, they wind up

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Speaker 1: just dispersing themselves evenly throughout the water in the mixture.

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Speaker 1: And these physics are also why milk contains both water

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Speaker 1: and fats. But it looks like a single homogeneous liquid

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Speaker 1: until you know, you zoom weighed out into it, you

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Speaker 1: notice that there's just little pockets of fat, but they're

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Speaker 1: just separated out. Oh yeah, that's a cute image in

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Speaker 1: my head. What is going on? Body? You gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta pick a side here. See, I told you you

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Speaker 1: would like it is cool. It is cool. It's okay

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Speaker 1: if you don't want to eat it. I suppose that's

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Speaker 1: generally a thing that you can I think something's cool

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Speaker 1: and not want to eat it. They're, in fact many

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Speaker 1: things that I think are cool that I do not

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Speaker 1: want to consume. Yeah, it's probably a healthy lifestyle. Egg

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Speaker 1: yolks are typically used in making mayonnaise because they contain

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Speaker 1: this fatty molecule called lesser thin that acts as an emulsifier.

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Speaker 1: A little bit of ground mustard seed or prepared mustard

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Speaker 1: is often added to homemade mayonnaise because mustard seeds contain

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Speaker 1: a lot of U muselage, which is a kind of

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Speaker 1: gluey protein that also acts as an emulsifier. And either

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Speaker 1: of these substances can be derived from lots of other

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Speaker 1: stuff like a soybeans contain a lot of lesser than seaweed,

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Speaker 1: a lot of mucilage. And that's how you can get

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Speaker 1: eggless mayo ego through the wonders of chemistry. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: talk some more about how it's made, because it's interesting. Um.

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Speaker 1: In the US, the Food and Drug Administration Standard of

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Speaker 1: Identity regulates mayonnaise, and yes, that is a thing. The

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Speaker 1: FDA regulates just about every food that can and be

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Speaker 1: labeled and sold in the US to make sure that

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Speaker 1: the consumers know what they're getting um and to keep

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Speaker 1: manufacturers from cutting corners by using too many fillers in

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Speaker 1: their foods. In the case of mayonnaise, it's rules lay

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Speaker 1: out how much acid and oil the products should contain

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Speaker 1: by weight, plus what kinds of acids and oils and

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Speaker 1: egg products can be used, plus what optional flavorings and

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Speaker 1: texture modifiers are allowed. Okay, but really what is miracle whip?

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Speaker 1: Though it's not manna, it's not man is. It is

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Speaker 1: a mayonnaise related product, but it swaps out some of

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Speaker 1: the oils that would be in mayo for sugars, and

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Speaker 1: that FDA regulation says that it doesn't contain enough vegetable

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Speaker 1: oil to count as mayonnaise, So if you look at

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Speaker 1: a bottle, it'll be labeled salad dressing instead of what

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Speaker 1: may Yeah, I can pay more attention. It's not like

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Speaker 1: I remember buying miracle whip, but I did spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time confused in the mayo aisle and we

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Speaker 1: were going to make that peanut butter sandwich. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: still mad about that anyway. Yeah, so's it's got a

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Speaker 1: little bit of sweetness to it that ao doesn't have typically,

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Speaker 1: and it also contains the brand contains a little bit

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Speaker 1: of paprika and garlic. I believe powder paprika and powder garlic.

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Speaker 1: So you know, those things can be added to mayo,

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Speaker 1: but usually they would be like labeled like mayo with garlic, yeah,

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Speaker 1: or something like that. And speaking of a really is

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Speaker 1: a term for mayo that has added garlic? Oh really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Usually fresh but yeah fresh chopped. Huh. You cannot make

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Speaker 1: your own mayo at home should you desire. Julia Child

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Speaker 1: has a recipe available online. Oh yeah, it's real easy.

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Speaker 1: You just need a whip, a bowl egg yolks, vinegar

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Speaker 1: or lemon juice, and the oil of your choice. You

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Speaker 1: whip together the egg, yolks and acid and then continue

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Speaker 1: whipping and like slowly drizzle in the oil. Slow, slow

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Speaker 1: flow and steady yes yeah um. And the physical action

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Speaker 1: of the whip allows the emulsifying molecules in the yolks

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Speaker 1: to interact with and grab up molecules of water and

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Speaker 1: oil and disperse themselves. Yeh. By the way, if you're

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Speaker 1: trying to do this and and it breaks, like goes

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Speaker 1: all lumpy and running at the same time in precisely

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Speaker 1: the way that mayo should not. Um, do not be afraid.

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Speaker 1: Just put a little bit of the broken mayo in

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Speaker 1: a separate bowl and then whisk in either a little

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Speaker 1: bit more of your acid or a little bit more

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Speaker 1: water or another egg yoke, and the mixture should repair itself.

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Speaker 1: It should come back together. Um. Then you just slowly

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Speaker 1: whisk in the rest of the broken mayo and it

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Speaker 1: will all be I'll be happy you like the recipe, saver,

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Speaker 1: you could have saved me with my biscuits. If I'm

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Speaker 1: ever being masochistic and making homemade mayo it goes wrong,

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Speaker 1: contact you straightaway. You might like the homemade stuff better

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Speaker 1: than the bottled stuff. I think it's worth experimenting with. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And this also goes for for other a multiplied sauces,

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Speaker 1: like if you're ever making like a beschemelle or something

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Speaker 1: like that. Because the reason that a multifications break, that

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Speaker 1: is the waters and oils go back to hanging out

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Speaker 1: on separate sides of the ants floor instead of mingling. Um.

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Speaker 1: That happens when the oils in the mixture overwhelm the

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Speaker 1: connecting molecules, and so to restore balance you have to

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Speaker 1: either add more connecting molecules, like add more egg yolks

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Speaker 1: or add more water, so the little like bubbles of

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Speaker 1: connected fats disperse and then whisked combined, because otherwise otherwise

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Speaker 1: those oils will like resolutely hang out by themselves, too

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Speaker 1: cool for school. They are man or they're like busy

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Speaker 1: playing dn D or something. I was thinking of those

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Speaker 1: god kids from South Fire. Oh yeah, Well, if we

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Speaker 1: look at nutrition, if you exercise control, it's not as

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Speaker 1: bad as you think. Maybe I don't know. I've always

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Speaker 1: had an association that mayonnaise was really bad for you,

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Speaker 1: but that perhaps it's just me. One tablespoon has about

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Speaker 1: nine D calories. It is a lot of fat, but

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Speaker 1: not saturated fat, and you can also get egg free mayo.

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Speaker 1: Egg free is sometimes marketed as a health concerned solution

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Speaker 1: to um, you know, wanting mayo but not wanting so

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Speaker 1: much some fat or so much cholesterol. But it's also

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Speaker 1: marketed as an animal rights concern because the big makers

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Speaker 1: of Mayo buy up millions of eggs per year to

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Speaker 1: do so. A Unilever, the owners of A. Helmond's and

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Speaker 1: Best Foods, reportedly go through three D and fifty million

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Speaker 1: eggs every year in making mayonnaise and okay, now, thing

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Speaker 1: about eggs. Chickens will lay them whether or not those

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Speaker 1: eggs have been fertilized. So most eggs that you buy,

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Speaker 1: that thing never had a chance at becoming an embryo

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Speaker 1: or a hatchling. But in order to breed new laying chickens,

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Speaker 1: the industry sets up its chickens to lay fertilized eggs.

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Speaker 1: And until very recently, there was no way to tell

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Speaker 1: whether an egg carried a male or a female bird.

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Speaker 1: You'd have to wait for it to hatch. And since

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Speaker 1: the industry is really only doing this to create lady chickens,

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Speaker 1: the male hatchlings would hatch and then be killed immediately. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty rough, But this method is changing partly because

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Speaker 1: of Mayo. Huh. This one maker of vegan Mayo launched

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Speaker 1: a whole campaign against Unilever's products back in to bring

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Speaker 1: attention to the issue. Under increased pressure, partially due to that,

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Speaker 1: partially due to you know, other animal rights organizations in

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Speaker 1: there was this research out of Germany and the Netherlands

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Speaker 1: that identified a way to sample newly fertilized eggs DNA

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Speaker 1: without harming the embryos inside. So this will allow male

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Speaker 1: fertilized eggs to be diverted from the laying farms. Like

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Speaker 1: they'll never grow or hatch, but their death will be

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Speaker 1: at such an extremely early developmental age that they won't

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Speaker 1: you know, they're not sentient yet, they won't suffer. Plus,

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Speaker 1: these eggs will be able to be used right now

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Speaker 1: that life is going to nothing. But by diverting those eggs,

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Speaker 1: we can use them in industries like the pet food

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Speaker 1: industry and to make vaccinations. So that is all great stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then in the Humane Lead, which is this nonprofit

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Speaker 1: group that's interested in farm animal welfare, negotiated a deal

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Speaker 1: with a trade group called United Egg Producers. I just

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Speaker 1: said it probably maybe exactly as dier as they deserve.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know the guys, but they

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Speaker 1: represent the vast majority of egg production in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and they agreed to switch from the current method of

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Speaker 1: just killing hatched mail chicks to testing recently fertilized eggs.

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Speaker 1: And they said that they would get this done by

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Speaker 1: so we'll have to keep our eye on that. Yeah. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: If we look at numbers, Americans like their mayo, Apparently

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Speaker 1: seventies seven million gallons were purchased in about one point

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Speaker 1: for billion pounds, which comes out to around half a

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Speaker 1: gallon per person just in America. This is just holy heck.

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Speaker 1: That all adds up to two billion American bucks, more

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Speaker 1: than people Americans spend on catchup, which really surprised me.

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Speaker 1: Of the eight billion eggs produced each year in the States,

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Speaker 1: about one percent, or eight million, go directly to making mayo.

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Speaker 1: MM And this is all interesting because doing this research

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Speaker 1: I learned about something called mayo phobia. I am not

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Speaker 1: the only one who hates mayonnaise. Jimmy Fallon and President

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Speaker 1: Obama also are famous non fans of the stuff, and

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Speaker 1: BuzzFeed once ran an article calling it the devil's condiment.

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Speaker 1: The press has a term for extreme dislike of mayo.

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Speaker 1: Mayo phobia. Take this quote from Gabrielle Roth. Mayonnaise is ketchups,

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Speaker 1: dark twin, loved by some, reviled by others, setting brother

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Speaker 1: against brother wherever to spread. Or the old Milton barrel joke.

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Speaker 1: Anytime somebody orders a corned beef sandwich on white bread

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Speaker 1: with mayonnaise, somewhere in the world, as ju dies, Oh yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: that's that's not a thing. Ryan Mustard, Ryan mustard obviously,

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Speaker 1: or if you get way back to H five. British

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Speaker 1: writer Frank Schlosser wrote, much modern depravity I attribute to

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Speaker 1: the unholy cult of mayonnaise, and he went on to

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Speaker 1: compare it to quote an old actor painted up to

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Speaker 1: look young and holy cult. I kind of want to

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Speaker 1: make a joke Colt now Man and holy cult of mayonnaise.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'll write that into the D and D game

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Speaker 1: I'm currently b that's beautiful. Mayo did come to represent

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Speaker 1: a certain type of oft ridiculed American. In the words

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Speaker 1: of mel Brooks, this person quote drives a white Ford

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Speaker 1: station wagon, eats white bread, vanilla, milkshakes, and mayonnaise. This

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Speaker 1: was also reflected in documentary The History of White People

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Speaker 1: in America, where the pale white subjects all had a

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Speaker 1: personal bottle of mayonnaise they carried around with the CATS's

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Speaker 1: Deli in New York City, where that famous orgasm scene

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Speaker 1: took place, in where Harry met Sally as a son

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Speaker 1: mine that Warrens quote asked for mayo at your own peril.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's an association with fat and the

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Speaker 1: stigma around fat that plays into this too, Because I

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Speaker 1: was just trying to get to the bottom of where

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Speaker 1: some of this is coming from. In the late eighties,

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian writer Charles Meminger launched the worldwide I Hate Mayonnaise

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Speaker 1: Club to hold back the quote evil Empire of slime

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Speaker 1: and the horrible alleged food. A dozen or so students

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Speaker 1: followed suit in when they formed the Wesleyan Anti Mayonnaise

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Speaker 1: League and protested the tubs of mayo in the colleges cafeteria.

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Speaker 1: And to me, it sounds like maybe it was more

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Speaker 1: about leaving the mayo out all day, that's what they

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Speaker 1: were protesting. But then again, the founder included this phrase

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Speaker 1: in her wedding vows about never to bring tuna or

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Speaker 1: mayonnaise into our home, and she would go on to

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Speaker 1: describe it as quote black magic and Satanic type stuff.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I've met some Satanists that would argue

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Speaker 1: you think so if you'll bring them on for a

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Speaker 1: follow up. In the two movie Undercover Brother, the main

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Speaker 1: character had to learn to stomach mayo so as to

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Speaker 1: blend in as a quote tight but white man. And

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Speaker 1: I've mentioned before I think on this show I had

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Speaker 1: to undergo this. I guess we'd call it training um

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Speaker 1: Before I traveled abroad through an internship at my school

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Speaker 1: where you had to eat something that would gross you

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Speaker 1: out and then act like it didn't gross you out.

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Speaker 1: And it was supposed to be like, I don't offend people.

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Speaker 1: And it was cold pasta with mayonnaise, just and it

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Speaker 1: was rough. I gotta say, I believe you it was rough.

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Speaker 1: As of two thousand six, there's a website called hold

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Speaker 1: that Mayo dot com that comes with this statement when

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Speaker 1: you order a b LT there's no emint. It should

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Speaker 1: not be the default. That's our political position. There's a

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Speaker 1: Google graph showing the late twentieth century rise of the

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Speaker 1: phrase hold the mayo. It's pretty significant, and scientists have

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Speaker 1: looked into the distaste of mayo. There has been science

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Speaker 1: around it, and they think it has to do with

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Speaker 1: the disgust response, which they think has to do with

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Speaker 1: rotten flesh, animal waste in our body doing its best

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Speaker 1: to protect us from microbes. Most commonly, the things that

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Speaker 1: elicit this disgust reaction are mushy, squishy, goopy, gooey, filmy, slimy,

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Speaker 1: or some combination. And yeah, looking at you, mayo. If

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Speaker 1: you take this quote from Slate, mayonnaise contains an animal product.

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Speaker 1: It is reminiscent of pus or semen, and it is

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Speaker 1: remarkably slimy and giggily. Apparently as much as of people

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Speaker 1: are as many as twenty people dislike mayonnaise. Um. There's

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Speaker 1: a film that hold the Mayo group put together, called

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Speaker 1: The Mayo Conspiracy UM that theorizes that mayonnaise prevalence is

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Speaker 1: a global conspiracy. Supposedly it's satire, but I'm not. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Fascinatingly, to me,

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Speaker 1: studies show that young children don't really experience this gross

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Speaker 1: out response for mayonnaise in particular, or for stuff in general,

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Speaker 1: stuff in general. It was interesting to me because I

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Speaker 1: know I've seen babies grossed out by broccoli and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, but I think they, yeah, it was some

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Speaker 1: of these other things like mayonnaise. I think it's like

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Speaker 1: a surprise flavor kind of thing. They're like that tastes

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Speaker 1: like a thing, and what is happening to my face? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the scientists were suggesting that it's a learned thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Yeah, that's great. I know I would love

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Speaker 1: to look more into that. On a personal level, I

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Speaker 1: don't get like a lot of things that discussed. People

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Speaker 1: when it comes to food, don't disgust me. I'm a

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Speaker 1: very hard to disgust person in general. I would say, so,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know what's going on, but

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Speaker 1: something not working for me. Yeah, And I did want

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Speaker 1: to put in here also that for the record, it's

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Speaker 1: not the mayo in cold salads that makes them a

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Speaker 1: hazard at like picnics and potlocks and stuff. Um, I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's a pretty common Like if you see

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Speaker 1: like chicken salad out at like a church potluck, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: maybe not maybe not that one, maybe steered towards something else.

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Speaker 1: They're there's sort of a I don't know, perception that

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Speaker 1: that's a thing, but it's really not. Like mayonnaise contains

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Speaker 1: a lot of acid actually, which prevents bacterial growth. Um,

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Speaker 1: and commercially bottled mayo is especially safe because the egg

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Speaker 1: yolks in it have impasteurized. The CDC has never reported

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Speaker 1: an instance of food born illness associated with commercial mayonnaise,

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Speaker 1: which is like remarkable. They have said, this is remarkable.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, man, you should put that on their jar.

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Speaker 1: CDC says, this is remarkable. However, the other things in

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Speaker 1: these cold salads you have, chicken and potato and eggs

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Speaker 1: are bacterial playgrounds. At room temperature above about forty degrees

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Speaker 1: fahrenheit um, that's about four point four celsius, bacteria can

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Speaker 1: double in number in just twenty minutes. The USDA recommends

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Speaker 1: throwing out any food that has been sitting at room

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Speaker 1: temperature for over two hours, or if it's over ninety

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Speaker 1: degrees or thirty two degrees celsius, they recommend reducing that

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Speaker 1: time to just over one hour. Oh no, so I mean,

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Speaker 1: for for like the best practices. I don't follow this

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Speaker 1: rule either, but if I were, like, just just keep

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Speaker 1: keep your hot foods hot and your cold foods cold, folks,

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Speaker 1: especially if you have some kind of immune issue where

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Speaker 1: this could be a problem. Yes, yeah, that is wise.

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Speaker 1: And remember if you're at a potluck or something, to

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Speaker 1: think about other because I'm always like I don't care

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Speaker 1: about taking this risk, but other people do. Yeah, sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: absolutely be considered. And this whole distaste of mayo thing

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Speaker 1: might be changing. There are some signs that it's changing,

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Speaker 1: particularly in Southern cuisine. It has kind of made a

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a comeback, but almost more

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Speaker 1: of a let's let's look at mayo again with a

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Speaker 1: less critical eye. Everyone, remember how good we like, we

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Speaker 1: love it. And there is an artisanal mayo shop in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: of course, of course are there was. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if it's still open because the website wasn't working when

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Speaker 1: I tried, but there was at one time and may

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Speaker 1: still be. And throughout history, mayo has been pretty well loved.

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Speaker 1: And we'll get into some of that history. But first

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Speaker 1: we're going to pause for a quick break for a

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Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,

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Speaker 1: thank you. So this one has a couple of competing

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Speaker 1: origin stories. Surprise surprise, yes, no surprise at all. Both

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Speaker 1: France and Spain are vying to take credit for the

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Speaker 1: invention of mayonnaise. This is currently still up for debate,

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Speaker 1: hotly debated among the countries. Honorable mention to Egyptians in Romans, though,

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Speaker 1: because they were eating a mixture of eggs and olive

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Speaker 1: oils similar to mayo, all the way back in ancient times.

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Speaker 1: Let's first take a look at the case of France. France,

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Speaker 1: it begins in seventeen fifty six, when the Duke of

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Speaker 1: Richelieu's forces attacked Port Mahon in the first battle of

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Speaker 1: the European Seven Years War. Port Mayhan this is my

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Speaker 1: band teacher's name. I apologize, Mr Mayhan, but it's very

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Speaker 1: much impacting my inflection. Um. So it was on the

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Speaker 1: Mediterrane island of Minorca, which these days is part of Spain.

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Speaker 1: The Duke's forces were victorious and his chef wanted to

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Speaker 1: celebrate the occasion with a feast, one boasting the mos luxurious,

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Speaker 1: creamy and decadent sauce. But problem problem there was no

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Speaker 1: cream on the island. Never fear. Solution a mixture of

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Speaker 1: egg and oil that he called mahonnais after the port

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Speaker 1: where it was conceived. Or another way this could have

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Speaker 1: gone down is that the chef learned about the condiment

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Speaker 1: from the island natives. As far as the word itself goes,

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Speaker 1: the first example of it in print in France came

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Speaker 1: along in eighteen oh six, but interestingly the word appeared

422
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: two years earlier in a French phrase in a German book,

423
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: Yeah Okay. The English adopted the word in the eighteen forties,

424
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: first recorded by William Makepeace Factory The Mahonnais, Duke of

425
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: Richelieu creation story was the generally accepted truth until about

426
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: nineteen o six, when a culinary investigator Yeah posited that

427
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: the lateness of the word in France, combined with the

428
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: spelling mayonnaise with hawai and the earliest printed examples as

429
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: opposed to mayonnaise with an H, makes the story a

430
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 1: little fishy. He suspected that instead mayonnaise started out as

431
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: a bayonnaise two years after the original Duke of Richelieu's story.

432
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: There are a lot of similarities between the two stories.

433
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: Mayonnaise was named after the French town of Bayon. Still,

434
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: others thing that mayonnaise name comes from magner, which means

435
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: to handle, or the old French word for egg yolk moyo.

436
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: By the nineteen twenties, the Spanish or fighting to reclaim

437
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: their mayonnaise heritage. One Chef Adam Madrid led the charge,

438
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: pushing out a pamphlet demanding that his fellow Spaniards do

439
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: away with the word mayonnaise and start calling it instead

440
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: salsa mayonnaise. Whether or not they invented mayonnaise, the French

441
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: were the ones that spread it around, Spread it around,

442
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, yeah, it was one of the Five Mothers

443
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: sauces refined in France in the eighteenth century and is

444
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: pretty closely related to ioli. French chef Marie Antoine Korems

445
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: lighting d recipe now with vegetable oil and egg yolks,

446
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: was the most wide spread can't stop. We see examples

447
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: of this in nineteenth century cookbooks dedicated to French cuisine

448
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: that came with recipes involving mayo out of Britain and Germany.

449
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: And this about brings us to the United States. But

450
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: first it brings us to one more quick break for

451
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,

452
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: thank you, and we're back. With French shifts migrating to

453
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: the US in the eighteen hundreds, and they brought with

454
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: them mayonnaise, and by eight the fancy Manhattan restaurant Del

455
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: Monico's offered both chicken mayonnaise and mayonnaise of lobster. I

456
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: believe these where these were cold salads. I believe you

457
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: are correct. And salads were the vehicle that really introduced

458
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: mayo to the American public. Tomato salads, potatoes salads, Waldorf salads.

459
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: The reason why the salad mayo combination was so popular

460
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: is because Mayo was and is great at hiding less

461
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: than desirable flavors and you're perhaps not so fresh vegetables

462
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: or fruits. And it's also a good binder, which is

463
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: why it took off on sandwiches. After the mechanical bread

464
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: slicer came out in the nineteen twenties, the sandwich became

465
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: a really popular lunch for working class Americans, and Mayo

466
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: benefited from that popularity. It rode the sandwich is star.

467
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, it gives a nice layer of moisture

468
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: in there. Yeah, but it usually doesn't. But it doesn't

469
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: really bog it down or make it soggy. So I

470
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: was always a bummer with sandwiches. I love tomatoes, but

471
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: you put a tomato in a sandwich, you don't eat

472
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: it right away. Oh it'll soak right through that bread. Yeah.

473
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: If you get that good layer of just light layer

474
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: of oil from mayo or from regular oil or butter,

475
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: whatever you want, then yeah, then it kind of insulates

476
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: the bread, all right. Noted President Calvin Coolidge entered the

477
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: mayonnaise fray. Oh my goodness, and I coin it, sure, yes,

478
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: I'll never make any money off of it. I'll probably

479
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: lose not only money, but dignity perspect I think we

480
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: need a T shirt that has that has Dukes versus

481
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: Helmet's and it's the Frayons. I don't know. We have

482
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: the power, we do, we have the power in President

483
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: Coolidge told the press he couldn't go without his aunt's

484
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: homemade mayo, and homemade up until this point was pretty

485
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: much how you got your mayo. But it would virtually

486
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: become a thing of the past when companies realize that

487
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: they could be making some I'm serious money off of this.

488
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: And the front runner was a little company called Hellman's.

489
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: Maybe you've heard of it out of New York City.

490
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: So we have two company of sides here, and we'll

491
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: start with Hellman's. Richard Hellman immigrated from Germany to New

492
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: York in nineteen o three. He opened a delicatessen in

493
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: nineteen o five where he flavored his salads with his

494
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: wife's homemade mayonnaise. Customers loved it and asked if they

495
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: could get it straight up to go, since takeout containers

496
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: were lagging at the time. At first, the mayonnaise came

497
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: in these wooden tubs used for measuring butter, but once

498
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: jar technology was available, Hellman started selling it the mayonnaise

499
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: and jars with wide openings right for the scooping, and

500
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: he differentiated between the two types of mayonnaise he sold

501
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: with a blue ribbon. One had the blue ribbon and

502
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: one did not. The blue ribbon recipe was so popular

503
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: that by Hellman designed a label with the blue ribbon

504
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: on top, and he was doing good enough business that

505
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: he shut down his deli to solely focus on mayo

506
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventeen. He became a U S citizen in

507
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty and opened the quote largest mayonnaise factory in

508
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: the world in Long Island City, New York. And to

509
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: this day, Hellman's and early competitor Best Foods make up

510
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: of the mayo market, with Helman's dominating the East Coast

511
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: and Best Foods dominating west of the Rockies. I gotta

512
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: say I've never heard of Best Foods until doing this. Yeah,

513
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: it's a popular brand. Both are owned by Craft which

514
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: sound by Lever right. And this brings us to Duke's Mayonnaise,

515
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: which is what we mentioned the top as John Fleer's favorite,

516
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: and we owe dukes Mayonnaise to South Carolinian Eugenia Thomas

517
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Slade Duke, and her story is really cool too because

518
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: she succeeded at a time when women weren't really welcomed

519
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: at all in the business. Realm Duke wanted to find

520
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 1: a way to help out the US during World War One,

521
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: so around nineteen seventeen, she enlisted her daughter to help

522
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: her make sandwiches out of their small kitchen and their

523
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: small rental house, and they sold these sandwiches to infantrymen

524
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: at camps of year for ten cents apiece. And this

525
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: was a place kind of the last stop for a

526
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: lot of soldiers before they went to Europe. Pomino sandwiches,

527
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: chicken salad sandwiches, egg salad sandwiches, a k sandwiches that

528
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: utilize mayo. With a large chunk of the male population

529
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: away fighting the war, her workforce, as popularity of her

530
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: sandwiches grew and she hired more people, was mostly women.

531
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: Once we claimed she sold over ten thousand sandwiches on

532
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: one fine day in nineteen nineteen. Oh man, that's a lot.

533
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: By Duke was struggling to meet demand for her sandwiches.

534
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: At the suggestion of one of her top sales people,

535
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: she decided to focus on selling the key ingredient in

536
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: these sandwiches mayonnaise. Transitioning from entrepreneur to manufacturer. Duke's Mayonnaise Company,

537
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: complete with one of Greenville, South Carolina's first manufacturing facilities,

538
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: started production within that year, and she was well known

539
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: about town for her big hats, her pearls, her love

540
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: of parties, but also as a voice for women's rights.

541
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: She took part in pushing for the passage of the

542
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: Nineteenth Amendment granting women the right to vote. And she

543
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: was smart too, making deals with hotels so they'd use

544
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: her mayo for those d time Binger sandwiches. Demand kept

545
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: growing and Duke sold her company in And remember we

546
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of the episode, John Fleer was

547
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: quoted in that NPR article about Duke's Mayonnaise. Well, the

548
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: article posits that in most critically acclaimed restaurants across the

549
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: United States, one of the only manufactured food items you'll

550
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: find in their cupboards is Duke's mayonnaise. Unlike most mass

551
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: produced mayo's, it doesn't have any sugar because it was

552
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: ration during the war, so she cut it out, which

553
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: gives it extra tang. Claire says, quote, I don't associate

554
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: with chefs that don't use it or else I enlighten them.

555
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: And he's not Dukes only mega fan too. You can

556
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 1: find stories of wedding centerpieces and urns for the ashes

557
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: of loved ones. Dukes has like a fan hall of

558
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: fame to get fan letters, and I remember reading I

559
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: think chef John Figure said in this article that when

560
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: you learn to make mayonnaise at culinary school, you're essentially

561
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: making dukes mayonnaise. I can't remember if I've ever had dukes,

562
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 1: but I gotta say I feel like I've gotta I

563
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: gotta try it. I've got to revisit it or try it,

564
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: whichever it is. Revisit might be a strong word. You

565
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: don't need to like hang out there. You can just

566
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: take a bite. I know that in my household dukes.

567
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: When we have dukes, it's for are a fancy occasion.

568
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: That is the fancy mayonnaise. Totally. I'm glad that's not

569
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: just me. It's like, oh, we have dukes? Are we

570
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: having people? Should I have dressed up? Exactly? Where's my hat?

571
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: An industry magazine from seven came with this Mayo observation

572
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: quote mayonnaise which had heretofore been considered a luxury, has

573
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: now become a staple and a table necessity, not only

574
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: in the homes of the rich, but also at the

575
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: working man's table. Mayonnaise and made it. But let's step

576
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: back a bit to three in the century of progress,

577
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: a World's Fair in Chicago, when the National Dairy Products

578
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: introduced a type of mayo that they labeled salad dressing. Yep.

579
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: Nowadays we know this stuff as Kraft Miracle Whip salad dressing.

580
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: And when I was looking into that, I thought that

581
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: that had change. But as you said at the top,

582
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: and it's still labeled that way, and due to its

583
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,360
Speaker 1: status as a salad dressing, it is I believe, the

584
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: best selling salad dressing in the United States. There's a

585
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,800
Speaker 1: lot of air quotes. There are so many scare quotes,

586
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: because first of all, I wouldn't just plunk it. I mean,

587
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: when I hear the word salad dressing, I think of

588
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,919
Speaker 1: like a vinegarette. I think of something that I would

589
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: dress a salad with and not make into chicken salad.

590
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: Like I feel like that. I don't know. The term

591
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 1: salad is very confusing for me. Sometimes I agree anyway,

592
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: whatever salad is, I would not put miracle whip in it,

593
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: So not personally tato salad, chicken salad. Those are mayonnaise

594
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: and mayonnaise only. Yeah, yeah, I just I really just

595
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: like the flavor of miracle whip. That's interesting, Like I

596
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: can't I can't recall enough anyway. Um so okay. So

597
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: so supposedly how this was created was that Craft was

598
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: seeing a drop in mayo, say due to the Great Depression,

599
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: like it had been going up, and they were happy,

600
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: and then Great Depression comes along and people start making

601
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: their mayo at home again. And it's not totally clear

602
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: whether miracle Whip was cheaper to produce than mayonnaise, or

603
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: even whether it was being sold for less money than mayonnaise.

604
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: At the time, the Craft was successfully able to market

605
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: it as a novel and worthwhile product crafty craft uh

606
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: huh um. And the name comes from this new machine

607
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 1: design that they purchased while they were developing Miracle Whip.

608
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: That the machine did the job of emulsifying the ingredients,

609
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: allowing a mixture with less oil and less egg to

610
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: come together nonetheless smooth and thick. And the machine had

611
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: been dubbed by its inventor, the Miracle whip. Ah, and

612
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: the name transferred to that first product to the craft

613
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 1: made with it. Huh. I'm laboring under a lot of

614
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: false I always thought that it's called miracle whip because

615
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: it was somehow like mayonnaise that much healthier for you. Well,

616
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: it is lower in fat because of the texture, um,

617
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and it is replaced with sugars like hyperctose. Corn syrup

618
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: is one of the top I think it's like the

619
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: fifth ingredient on the label, um by mass. So you

620
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: will save on certainly fat calories and probably calories overall,

621
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 1: given that fats are a lot more calorie dense than

622
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: sugars are. But I wouldn't necessarily say that it's healthier

623
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: for you. Um. I mean, healthier is really qualitative to

624
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: begin with. But but but when you when you get

625
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: into the fats versus sugars argument, and also um, the

626
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: fact that it has to use stabilizers in order to

627
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: make everything come together properly than you know. Yeah, And

628
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: speaking of this mayo party couldn't go on forever because

629
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 1: by the nine scientists were telling the American public to

630
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: avoid foods with high cholesterol accounts like eggs, because they

631
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: were bad for your heart. And that wasn't the end

632
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: of mayo's health was reports started coming out linking raw

633
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: egg consumption to salmonella poisoning, and this impacted the mayo.

634
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: I mean, any mayo that you buy jarred is pasteurized, period,

635
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: unless perhaps it's like local artisanal mayo, but you know,

636
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: but anything on a grocery store shelf has been pasteurized.

637
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: So and the salmonella scare in general was a thing

638
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: that was pertinent in the nineteen sixties but has been

639
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: pretty much taken care of today. You've got a really

640
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: low risk of getting salmonella from eggs. And like we

641
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: talked about in our sugar episode, the sugar industry was

642
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: very effective at making fat the villain in your diet.

643
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: And I'm sure mayonnaise got inside from that. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

644
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: And that's probably how a miracle whip became known as

645
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: the healthier alternative. Yeah sure, yeah, I will say, I

646
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: guess I didn't really know what mayonnaise was so much,

647
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: and when I learned it they had a lot of

648
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: eggs in it. It got me to thinking about how

649
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: on occasions where I have had homemade mayonnaise, it's usually

650
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: more yellowish totally. Yeah, And then how strange that kind

651
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: of is that it's so white? Oh yeah, so white.

652
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: But in the store, right, I think the color of

653
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: the homemade stuff comes from you know, you're using these

654
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: these fresh egg yolks that are unperturbed, uh, and probably

655
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: fairly yellow in color. But the egg products that are

656
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: used in commercial mayonnaise might have more white mixed in,

657
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,919
Speaker 1: or might do to whatever kind of processing they go through,

658
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: have less of that color, or maybe the chickens that

659
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: they're using don't produce as yellow of a yolk. Yeah, somebody,

660
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,359
Speaker 1: I know you have chickens, and when she would give

661
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: me eggs, I would have always shocked at like the

662
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: difference in color. Yeah, I'm sure it's a type of

663
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: feed kind of issue. Um and uh, as far as

664
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: I know, the only two things that the FDA says

665
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 1: that you cannot season mayonnaise with commercially speaking, our tumeric

666
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: and saffron because those two things would color the mayonnaise

667
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 1: to look like it contained more eggs. Huh. Interesting. Yeah,

668
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: Well that about brings is to the end of mayonnaise

669
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: an episode where I do not feel that I need

670
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: to go out and oh is this your first ever?

671
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: Like not hungry episode. I feel like there's been one

672
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: other one. I can't remember it is, but I am

673
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: willing to try it. I've had Hellman's recently and it

674
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: was a no go. How did you eat it? Did

675
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: you just like take a spoonful? No? I had it

676
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: on a I did try like a little straight, but

677
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: I had on sandwich. No. Okay, you're from the South,

678
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,240
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you feel about like pimento cheese spread? Yeah,

679
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: And thinking about this, I was reading the salads that

680
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: it's usually in and I realized I haven't really had

681
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,240
Speaker 1: chicken salad or tuna salad. I don't like potato salad

682
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 1: that much. It's fine, but I prefer it when it's

683
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: mustard baste. But I do. I like pomonto cheese in

684
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 1: small amounts, but I've never noticed like a mayonnaise flavor.

685
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: I know it is mostly mayonnaise, isn't it. It's cheese

686
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: and mayo. It's cheese, mayo and pimentos memento. But yeah,

687
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: everyone in my family loves mayonnaise. Everyone loves pimento cheese.

688
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: And I'm I'm usually the one that's like, I'm gonna

689
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: I'm fine, I'll be over here. It's Okay, Yeah, sometimes

690
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: I really like dipping my fries in it, which is

691
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: a relatively European thing. If anything could save mayonnaise, it's fries,

692
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: I think. I'm sure I've had fries to have mayonnaise

693
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: on them and they were they were. Okay, you're having

694
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: a very strong emotional reaction to this. I'm sorry that

695
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: we're putting you through like a little bit of a

696
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: ringer on this one. No, it's good. It's good to

697
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 1: explore all facets of human taste and disgust. It's October.

698
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 1: You're facing your fears. That's true. You couldn't corporated into

699
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm trying to think of those Halloween as if

700
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: as you know, at party or reach in the noodles,

701
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: and it's like intestines. Yeah, because I have that whole

702
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: jar haunting my refrigerator from our sandwich fiasco, and so

703
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of ways to use it so

704
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't have to look at it anymore or think

705
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: about it being in there. Would you want it? I

706
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: could just give it. Just told you so many times

707
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: that you can just bring it in and I will

708
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: take it. I should give it to you, that we

709
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: can solve this problem relatively easily. Sometimes I wake up

710
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: and I look at the fridge and it's like there's

711
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: a ghost in there, Like I know you're in their helmets.

712
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: I know you're in there. It's pale, ghostly visage, a

713
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: nightmare of just a big jar of mayonnaise at the

714
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: foot of my bed. Anyway, to anyone who likes mayonnaise, apologies,

715
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: I've tried to. It's not personal. Promise, it's not personal.

716
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: It's not I believe that it could do amazing things.

717
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: This brings us to listen. But our first one is

718
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: a great one because it's a thank you, it's not

719
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: really a male to your frequent writer Bob, for having

720
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: pizza delivered to our office. Oh man, that was such

721
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: a good afternoon. Thank you so much, Bob. It was

722
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: a Friday. He asked what all of our favorites were

723
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: and he sent like three pizzas. It fed the entire office.

724
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 1: And he lives in China, so it was pretty impressive. Yeah. Yeah,

725
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: there were salads too. Oh, it was such a good day.

726
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: And everyone was just like, why are we why are

727
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: we so lucky as to have pizza? And we were like,

728
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: thank Bob from China, and they were like, thank you, Paul,

729
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: and I have a real anxiety about leftovers. But that

730
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: pizza was gone. Oh yeah, don't worry. I did not

731
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: have to worry about it, not at all. Eleanor wrote

732
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: about our Willie Wonk episode. I read Charlie on the

733
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,359
Speaker 1: Chocolate Factory and it's equal when I was eight. When

734
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: I was younger, Roald Doll was my favorite author. Roald

735
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 1: Dahl wrote another book called The Missing Golden Ticket and

736
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: Other Splendiferous Secrets, where he writes about them making of

737
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: the book and how there was originally another child who

738
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: gets a gold ticket. There are also tidbits of information

739
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: about his childhood and secret recipes such as strawberry fudge

740
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,439
Speaker 1: scrumm didlumptuous or something like that. Bars. If you would

741
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 1: like more information on this, you should definitely check out

742
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: the book. It has enough information to make a sequel

743
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: of the podcast. The BFG also has some interesting foods

744
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: such as SNAs, cumbers and fob scuttle. Well. They're fun

745
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: to say, there's fun to research as they are to

746
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: say that I am in oh Man. Yeah, bf BFG

747
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,279
Speaker 1: is good. Another frequent writer, Jessica, wrote in response to

748
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: our once in a Lifetime Meal episode in Cambodia, we

749
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: were gifted with the opportunity to visit a school that

750
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: the company helped support. A part of the support, we

751
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: all had supper created by the students there of local

752
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: Cambodian cuisine. This included a chance to eat fried crickets

753
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 1: tasty but the legs get stuck in your teeth, and

754
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: local herbs and vegetables that we can't get here in Canada,

755
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: like a plant called morning glory, and of course locally

756
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: grown and prepared tea. Everything was either grown at the

757
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: school or found at the local market. On our way home,

758
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: we had a twelve hour stop in the Seoul Airport.

759
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever been, but it's an

760
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: incredibly cool airport. One of the things that offers is

761
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: cultural tours of the city that don't require a visa

762
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: or even checking out of the airport. We took a

763
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: four hour tour that included a visit to a Buddhist

764
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: temple and to the former royal residence. We also got

765
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: to stop for a bit of shopping and lunch. I

766
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: got to buy boba and mochi in Korea, and then

767
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: we had lunch at a tiny local restaurant. This is

768
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,399
Speaker 1: where I had my first taste of Bibi Bop and

769
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: fell in love. Eating in Asia is a very different

770
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 1: experience in general, and I can't recommend more to everyone

771
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 1: that they try it at least once. I certainly want

772
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: to go back. Oh yeah, Bobba and bi bim Bob

773
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: and mochi and even fried crickets. I like a fried cricket. Yeah.

774
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad that Jessica sent this because it added a

775
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: whole another layer for me. And thinking about the once

776
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: in a lifetime meal of Yes, those international meals, and

777
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: I immediately thought of so many examples from my time

778
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: in Asia, and so much good food that I I

779
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 1: you can't even identify, let alone have immediate access to,

780
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: like that peanut ice, the peanut ice sand. But a

781
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: listener wrote in yes, and and the tofu, which some

782
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: people have written in about that too, And I think

783
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: I've discovered what it is. I just haven't found the

784
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: right way to prepare it. Okay, all right, Well you're

785
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: working on it. I'm working on it. If anyone has

786
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: any hot tips, you know where to send them. And

787
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: if you don't, here you go our email is hello

788
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media.

789
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,399
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at

790
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 1: savor Pod. We do hope to hear from you. Thank

791
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: you so much to these fine humans for writing in.

792
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: Thank you to Dylan Fagin, our superproducer, who is wearing

793
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: a very creepy mask. And that's just fine. That's just

794
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: fine from Mr It's from Mr Robot. But it also

795
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: sort of looks like the Colonel. Oh yeah, an evil

796
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: one his like evil Twin. You know, no what the

797
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: spot call is? It just evils bock box twin. Oh goodness,

798
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,399
Speaker 1: this is a bad I'm bad at the quiz. I'm

799
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 1: not sure. Well, that's what's going on, right, That is

800
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,720
Speaker 1: what's going on. M Thank you to you for listening,

801
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

802
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: your way.