WEBVTT - #387 Jason Flom with Eduardo Dumbrique and John Klene 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.200 We first told you the story of ed Eduardo Dembrique 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.440 and John Clenny in July twenty twenty two, and I 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:08.680 was so excited to run into them both again at 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.920 the twenty twenty three INNOCENTCE Network Conference in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.480 That's an annual opportunity to gather with others in the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:20.279 innocence community axuneries, attorneys, advocate, social workers, and even a 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.799 few fellow podcasters like me running around sticking mics in 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:27.800 people's faces and jokes aside. I look forward to reuniting 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.200 with everybody every year. 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:30.319 We're going to hear. 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:30.640 John and a. 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.599 Dwardo's story again in a minute, but first, here's a 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:36.000 bit of the conversation we had when we met up 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.800 at this year's conference. I started off by asking John 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:40.720 how life's been treating him in the free world. 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.720 Life's been great, been living life, working, traveling, you know, 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.600 eating good, spending time with my family, my friends, making 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.160 up for miss time. 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:54.120 For sure, it's been amazing. 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.520 Absolutely, And what about you at Duardo, What's what's life 0:00:57.520 --> 0:00:59.440 been like for you on the outside? And I mean, 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:03.560 obviously you're doing good. You're here, you're representing people Gravitate 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:04.040 towards you. 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.080 Yeah. No, I feel great, man, I feel so great. 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:09.959 I feel grateful to be here, to be amongst all 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:12.600 these brothers that have been through what we've been through, 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.000 and they understand they're all at different stages of you know, 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.160 their transition and reconnecting with their families, reconnecting with their lives. 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.640 I'm grateful and really appreciative of the Peace and Justice 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.720 Law Center, Fullerton, California, but taking me on as a 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.360 legal apprentice. It's a four year program administered by the 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:33.119 California Bar I'm on my way to become attorney. I'm 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.440 so strong and passionate for juvenile rights. I'm really really 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:41.240 excited and encouraged by the opportunities that I have in 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.600 front of me and to speak my experience, to speak 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.360 my truth, to speak my understanding of what I believe 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.600 justice is for juveniles and their parents. 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.680 Oh No, it's incredible though, because you went in at 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.880 fifteen years old. Right at fifteen, you're just fairly a teenager. 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.160 You're not a man, you're a child. And then to 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.240 be put into that environment at that age, and now 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:05.320 to come out on the other side and transform that 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:10.399 pain into healing for other people who are strangers to you. Right. 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.800 What an amazing full circle story that is. 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.639 You know, it's the children and their families, and this 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:19.480 is happening all across America. You got fourteen, fifteen, sixty 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.160 to seventeen year old treated differently. Some are giving life 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.320 said and some are put with the adults, you know, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.959 forced to fend for themselves. Their families are at home worried. 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.440 You know, that family unit is destroyed by that child 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.480 going into an adult prison. I mean, on all ends 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.000 of the spectrum, it's not going to end well. And 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.160 so I am passionate about fighting for these people. They 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:47.359 have a right to be treated equally and fairly and educated. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:49.680 And now I'm in a position that I can do 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.480 something about it, and I feel deep responsibility. You know, 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.080 it's not the easiest thing, but I'm really excited about 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:06.000 this next chapter. I really am. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.800 In the eighties and nineties, Los Angeles gang culture was 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.720 much more nuanced than anyone outside of it bothered to know. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.880 For some, gangs meant socializing, while the criminal activity of 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.800 others colored all affiliated with the same broad brush. Gangs 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.120 were viewed as a problem that needed a swift and 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.520 harsh solution, and it seems that simply connecting it defended 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.639 to a gang was enough to get a conviction. While 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.360 fifteen year old de Duardo Dombrica and eighteen year old 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.520 John Clennie were affiliated with LAWNDEL thirteen for the girls, 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:39.560 parties and camaraderie, three older LAWNDEL thirteen members, Santo Alvarez, 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.480 Lester Momlor, and Chad Landrum were in IT for the 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.880 drugs and violence. On June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.360 Antonio Alarcan, a rival gang member, was killed in a 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:54.960 drive by shooting. A few days later, to escape unrelated charges, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.040 Santo Alvarez used his knowledge of that drive by to 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:03.040 blame Duardo and John. A few weeks later, Alvarez, Monmore, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.000 and Landrum committed another murder, and the police were happy 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.320 to pin Alvarez's role on a woman who knew the 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.320 deceased rather than their star witness against Eduardo and John. 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.320 With Alvarez's statement and a corrupt identification process that was 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.880 immediately recanted and protested by the witness, the two boys 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.200 were taken to trial. Chad Landrum was willing to confess 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.480 to the drive bite, but his continued violence behind bars 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.160 kept him unavailable. Despite both Alvarez and the witness's less 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:35.040 than willing participation to trial, the prosecutor and the detectives 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.440 were able to harp on at Duardo and John's gang 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:41.400 affiliation in order to send them away for life without parole. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:56.800 This is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction today. 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.120 We're covering a case. It gives us a peek into 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:02.159 the gang world of Los Angeles in the nineteen nineties 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.880 and the way in which the LAPD and the Prosecutor's 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.760 office dealt with that issue. We have two men that 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.440 were affected by those policies when they were just boys. 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.880 There's a third wrongfully convicted person, Susan Mellen, from a 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.920 related crime. She's not recording with us today, but their 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:22.239 amazing lawyer is one of the founders of Innocence Matters. 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.320 Deirdre O'Connor, Welcome to Wrongful Conviction. Thank you for having 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:30.960 me and now our guests of honor, the two men themselves. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.039 You know I always say this, but it's true. I'm 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.799 sorry that you guys are here because of why you're here, 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.760 but I'm really happy to have you on Wrongful Conviction today. 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.960 So I'm going to introduce John Clenny. First, John, thank 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.240 you for being here with us today on Wrongful Conviction. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:48.600 Thanks for having me. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.840 And of course Ed Dombrique, thank you for joining. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.880 Us, Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.440 So you two guys grew up together. Can you give 0:05:58.520 --> 0:05:59.599 us a little background there. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.880 I've known Ed since I was about maybe fifteen. We 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:09.719 both grew up in Londale, California. Londeal's kind of typical 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.039 middle class city in the South Bay. You know, it 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.920 has its little areas that aren't so great, and it's 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:18.960 some areas are decent. 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.240 So it's about ten minutes fifteen minutes from the beach. 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.520 I think it's a nice city. It's got a good 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:26.240 high school. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:28.880 So growing up in Lawndale, there was a gang in 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:30.960 your neighborhood called the Londale thirteen. 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.680 Well, we grew up there and we were part of that. 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.160 So you too grew up in the gang culture of 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.280 Los Angeles in the eighties and nineties and really came 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.160 of age in the nineties. And I think it's news 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:42.760 to some people that the word gang and gang culture 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.400 in general is a bit more nuanced than most of 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.920 the country realized back then. You know, many of our 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.120 listeners are old enough to remember seeing news reports of 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.920 the violence associated with gangs, and that's pretty much all 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.679 anyone outside of that culture knew about it at the time. 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.800 Only negative connotations, of course, So society reacted to that 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:05.599 by electing quote unquote tough on crime politicians who implemented 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.400 these kinds of ham fisted policing tactics, which of course 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.200 had very real effects, as you can both attest to 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.360 locking people up for the sake of doing it, but 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.400 not the right people, and in too many cases it's 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:19.760 the wrong people, like in yours. But gang culture was 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.800 not just criminality and violence, right, It was much much 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.040 more nuanced than that. Would you say that's an accurate depiction. 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.680 Yeah, for sure. Even in a single gang, it may 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.280 be like, you know, some people are just families, some 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.040 people are just friends. Of course you have a criminal 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:37.360 element to it, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.760 is involved in crime. The term gang is not a 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.800 good one, but it's like when you're young and growing 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.840 up and you experienced the friendship and the camaraderie, and 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.040 I mean that's kind of where you end up at, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.720 especially if you're growing up like in a neighborhood, you 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:53.840 know where gangs are there. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:56.440 You know, not everybody is on the same page. Not 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.520 everybody gets along. We were having fun, you know, whether 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.440 we're trying to get girls, trying to have a good time, 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.400 that's what it was. But you definitely had other guys 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.720 that their version of fun or you know, what they 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.840 would do is drugs and violence. 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:13.960 What I think is true for all gangs, right is 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.520 that there are little subsets inside the gangs where people 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.840 gravitate towards certain activities, you know, chasing girls, maybe scoring 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:24.960 some weed, that kind of thing. And there was that 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.400 kind of group, and then there were the people like Payaso, 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.720 which is Santo Alvarez, or Ghost Chad Landrum or Wicked 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:37.280 Lester Monlore that were really wanting to make a name 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.679 for themselves. They were getting high all the time and 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.600 doing some real vicious stuff. And they were the ones 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.840 out there doing the drive bys and the kind of 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.040 gratuitous violence that everybody associates gangs with. 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:53.920 Did you get along with these guys? 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:58.720 We know them. They're all significantly older than us. I 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.360 knew Lester when I was growing up a little bit, 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.360 like just as a as a younger kid, but he 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:07.600 kind of went the druggy kind of violent route, and 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.560 I just was there for kind of like the camaraderie 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.480 and the friendships and the fun I saw Santos on 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:17.079 my block a lot here and there, and my neighbor 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.480 that lived in the backhouse. I guess he got his 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.520 radio stolen, you know, out of his car in my driveway, 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.800 you know, And I always pretty much suspected Santos as 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.080 being the one that stole it. 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:31.200 You know. 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.000 Okay, so so much for camaraderie. So this kind of 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.800 accurately paints a picture of the divide that's at the 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.599 crux of this story. And I mean by that the 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.920 larger perception of gangs in the nineties, and then how 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:46.560 the issue was dealt with, like I said, in a 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.840 ham fisted kind of way, by detectives like the ones 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.559 in this case. There was Sergeant Riggs, but also Marcella 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.960 Win in a related case Deirdre. Have either of them 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:00.280 had any other wrongful convictions that they've been tied to. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:05.440 Win certainly does. She's a serial offender. There's at least 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:10.079 five known people ob Anthony and Reggie Cole case. They 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.720 were code defendants. It was Wynn's first murder case at 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.199 South Bay Homicide. 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.800 Yeah, we covered that case here on Raefel Conviction and 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.040 we'll have it linked in the bio. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.200 Then she had these two guys, Ed and John. Now 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.440 she had a tangential role in that, but had she 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.360 done the right thing, these guys would not have been 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.800 in custody. She also had the Susan Mellon case where 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.840 she relied on a non reliable person, but obviously unreliable, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.839 there was no question about it. And then she had 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.160 another case, the Michelle Pulo's case, she relied on the 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.240 same unreliable witness that she used against Susan Mellon. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.400 That is really disgusting tactic that we see over and 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.280 over again revisiting and reusing the same useful liars, like 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.120 Mark Tavins did in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan. And 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.720 this kid Joey Morales who was a witness in six 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.480 different murders and each time he was out getting milk 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.880 for his mom, and Danny Rincon who we interviewed on 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.360 this podcast, which is still in prison three decades later 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:16.000 because of this fake witness, and of course Mark Tevans, 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:18.960 it looks like win was cut from the same cloth. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:22.400 She was a terrible detective and didn't follow the rules 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:23.360 at all. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.600 Now, as far as Sergeant Riggs is concerned, you're going 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.839 to see what he does in this case in terms 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.160 of the identification process, and one can only surmise that 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.640 if he was so comfortable running rough shot over a 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.079 witness who was protesting at the identification in the courtroom 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.680 and in post conviction, yeah, while at the identification, he's 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:44.920 literally going, I can't see that, bar I can't do 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.240 this identification for you because I can't see. So this 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.320 guy tried to stand up and do the right thing 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.559 and was overruled and overridden and bullied. 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:55.000 By these cops. 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.680 So it's fair to say that this is something that 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:59.880 this particular officer had done before. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.520 The one thing I would say, Jason, in these gang cases, 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.240 you know, all bets are off with these detectives. They 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.280 can do whatever they want because they know that nobody 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.560 has any sympathy. All they have to do is say 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.640 the word gang member, and the prosecutors, the jurors, judges, 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:19.600 everybody rallies around a conviction. So the rules are completely 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.880 different in a gang case, and that's why you see 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.000 detectives violate the rules as much as they do because 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:27.360 they can. 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:30.160 Get away with it, right, They violate the rules while 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.520 lumping every gang member in under the umbrella of quote 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.040 violent gang member, regardless of what subset of the gang 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.400 that individual identified with. And what happened in this case, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.439 as happens unfortunately all over the country tragically, is that 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.959 you have a violent character like Santo Alvarez who conveniently 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:53.200 trades false information for his own freedom, and then he 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.400 and they remain free, I mean, other people like him 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.040 to commit more acts of violence while getting innocent folks 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.280 wrongfully convicted, and according to the false information that Alvarez 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.840 eventually gave the police. This story began to unfold on 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.520 the day before the incident in question, June twenty seventh, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.920 nineteen ninety seven, when a few kids from around the 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.559 Lowndeal thirteen neighborhood who were not in any way affiliated, 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.440 were the victims of a drive by. This was allegedly 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.600 perpetrated by members of the Lil Watts game. Now, none 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.280 of this was ever investigated or substantiated, but this story 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.880 from Santo Alvarez was used as the alleged motive for 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:32.160 a retaliatory drive by the following night. But did either 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:34.840 of you guys even know the kids who were shot 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.240 or shot at the night before, and particularly did you 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.800 know nineteen year old Luis Madrano. 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.120 I didn't know the guy. Those guys were not associates 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.600 of Londo. They were not friends of Londo that I 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.880 know of. But somehow I guess to maybe create a 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:53.000 motive for our case, they got brought into that as 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.480 being a good way to say, oh, yeah, these guys 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.719 are retaliating for this. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.840 And what happened the following night, June twenty thirty ninety 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.240 seen was that a member of the Little Watts Gang, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.719 twenty five year old Antonio Alercon, was at an autobody 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.080 shop and while outside using the payphone next door, out 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.280 of sight of those in the autobody shop, he was 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.360 killed by a drive by shooter. Dieu, what else can 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:15.080 you tell us? 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.480 Allar Khan had a truck that was being worked on 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.480 over a period of time at the shop, and the 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.600 shop owner, Daniel Curio, was at the shop that night 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.200 with a couple of other people in the shop and 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.600 Aller Khan happened to stop by and while he was there, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.720 I think he got a page and he wanted to 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.080 use the phone to call this woman who turned out 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.800 to be his mistress. So he was offered to use 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.920 the inside phone, but he declined and decided to go 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.920 outside because he wanted privacy. So he went out of 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:51.680 the shop. There's an adjacent building and there's a payphone 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.960 outside of that, and he went to the payphone to 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.520 speak with his mistress, and then suddenly a car pulled up. 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:03.360 Somebody got out of the car and just unloaded multiple shots, 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.760 and he was killed, really, probably before he had any 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.680 chance to react in any way. And then the shooter 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.520 got back in the car and the car drove off, 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:16.200 and as it drove off, it passed the opening of 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.200 the body shop garage door. So basically there's the storefront 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.920 on the corner. Adjacent to it is the body shop, 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.960 but the body shop sits in from the sidewalk so 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.040 that there's parking in front of it. So when you're 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.280 inside the body shop with the door open and looking out, 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.640 you would not have a direct line to the phone 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.160 booth because the wall of the building would be blocking it. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.000 But once the car moved forward, they would be able 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.320 to see the car. 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.480 Pass by right, so no one actually got a good 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:50.720 look at the shooter, including the shop owner who told 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:54.520 detectives that, but detectives cajoled him anyway into making an 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:59.120 id that he has never supported. Curiel even demonstrated later 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.520 at trial that he can't reliably see twenty feet in 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.080 front of him. Can you talk a bit about his 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:06.840 vantage point. 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:10.280 Curio's working on a car with his back to the street. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.400 He hears the sound of the gunshots going off, but 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.600 he thought it was fireworks, and because of the echoing effect, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.440 he thought it was coming from the back. So he 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.720 goes to the back and he looks out to see 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.880 what's going on back there, and that's when he realizes 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.880 it's coming from the front. And by then the car 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.520 is moving past the shop, so he would have been 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.240 I think more than twenty feet away from the car 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:38.920 at the time that he first observed it. 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.640 So what he and others did see was that this 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.200 was a black or dark green colored sedan and that 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.000 the front passenger had yelled some kind of gang epithet 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.880 at Alarkhan as they drove off. So this shooting happened 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.400 around eleven pm on June twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven, 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.240 and from looking into this case, I realized that this 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:01.200 state has some other significance and the audience will remember 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.360 this like I do. Because earlier that same night, Mike 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:10.240 Tyson bit Evander Holyfield's ear off during a heavyweight championship fight. 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.720 So people remember that night very, very clearly. In fact, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.919 you guys were friends. Ed was fifteen, John was eighteen, 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.280 and you were hanging out to watch the fight together. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.040 Is that right, Yes, sir. Yeah, on the day of 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.080 he had you know, barbecue, invited me. 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.960 It was actually a great night. You know, we'd never 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.760 seen something like that before, right, It was pretty memorable. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:38.040 There was multiple people there, you know, cooking, eating, drinking it. 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.120 It was a good night. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.719 Yeah, that was insane. I remember calling my friends and 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:44.919 family just to check if they had seen it. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:45.360 Yeah. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.879 People called the house, a few people and they're like, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.119 what the hell happened? Seeing it on the news, and 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.600 you know, if they didn't watch the fight, you know. 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.600 Right, they knew you were watching and called to ask 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.960 about it. You were seen on the front lawn talking 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.159 on your cordless phone by a neighbor as well, who 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.399 got home around eleven. So not only do people at 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.119 the party, but also those that called you and your neighbor. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.359 They all placed you at home at the time of 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.000 the shooting, which was about an eight to twelve minute 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.399 drive away from your home. And this shooting was alleged 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.360 to be in retaliation for the shooting of some kid 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:20.320 you didn't even know. Now, this case was being investigated 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:21.200 by Sergeant DORYL. 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:21.800 Riggs. 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:25.919 Several days go by, and on July first, Santo Alvarez 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.879 Akapayaso got picked up for possession of a weapon and 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.480 a hypodermic needle by Torrence PD. And this is when 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:33.320 the story start. 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:37.920 So basically, Santos Alvarez is in jail trying to find 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.960 his way out of jail, starts telling the I believe 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.200 it was a Torrance Police department where he was at. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.240 You know, hey, I know something about a murder that happened, 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.520 and they called the Sheriff's Homicide. 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.760 Right, So Torrance PD called over to La County Sheriff's 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.040 Homicide Department and Sergeant Riggs came to interview Santo Alvarez 0:18:57.080 --> 0:18:59.840 and they started asking about this dark colored car, maybe 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.480 perhaps green, and while distancing himself from Londeale gang activity, 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.600 he said that the only person he can think of 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:08.600 from Londale with a car like that was a guy 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.879 named Robert Caputo, and he said that he saw the 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.639 two of you in Kaputo's car on the day of 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:15.560 the murder, among other things. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:21.240 But also Santo Alvarez creates this story that he saw 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:26.320 me the day of the murder and I was upset 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.960 about that shooting from the prior day of Luis Madrano, 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.520 and that I wanted to retaliate. And then he said 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:36.960 that he saw me like you know, a few days 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.040 later or whatever, and says that he overhears me talking 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:44.919 to someone else saying that I shot someone or blasted 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:47.560 that for or something like along those lines is what 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:51.040 he used. So with that, from my understanding, they let 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.040 him out. Then they go back to the witnesses. I 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.800 feel they put pressure the most on probably Daniel Curriel 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:00.760 since he was a shop owner and showed him six 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.800 packs and coerced him into identifying us because of what 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.040 Santos said. 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.760 So you mentioned that Alva said that we were in 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.440 Carpule's car, right, but computer had turned that car in 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:16.040 or sold it. They could tell there that he was 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.000 lying about that, and that's a significant thing to lie 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:19.399 about it. 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.480 You said, they were in a car that the guy 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.040 doesn't have exactly. 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.560 Capudle had sold it in February nineteen ninety seven, about 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.879 five or six months before the shooting. Yet Riggs and 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.160 his partner Garcia brought a six pack photo array over 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.399 to Curiel with the purpose of getting him to id 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.760 YouTube as if they couldn't spot that lie about Capudo's 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.879 car right off the bat. This bogus photo lineup happened 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.280 on July tenth, I believe, before Ed's arrest, and Curiel 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.480 has always disputed this, but Riggs says that he identified 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:53.840 Ed as the shooter and John is the front passenger. 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.800 He held a gang epithet, So what really happened here? 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.600 Well, Riggs convinces him basically, look, you're never going to 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:03.600 have to go to court. We don't even need you. 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:06.240 This is just to help our case a little bit. 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.040 We already got these guys, but in reality he was 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:15.600 their entire case. So he convinces Curiel to say, all right, 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.720