1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Podcast play Gond. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast music history on Foot. 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 2: If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 2: You can find Taking a Walk on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: iHeart the Podcast Playground, or wherever you get your podcasts. 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,479 Speaker 2: Buzz Night is your host and join him for this 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: episode with a rock and roll legend, Orma caucanan Orma 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: is a founding member of The Jefferson Airplane and Hat Tuna, 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 2: and he's also had a successful solo career. He's truly 10 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: one of the great guitar players of our generation and 11 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 2: we welcome him to Taking a Walk next. 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 3: Well, Yorma, it is so great to be virtually taking 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 3: a walk with you. You were gracious enough to take 14 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 3: a walk with me on an earlier episode at the 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 3: Lovely fur Piece Ranch, but this is the next best thing. 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 4: It is. We're taking a modern walk here. 17 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 1: How are things at the fur Piece these days? 18 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 4: Well, you know, the fur Pieces is moderately, moderately uneventful 19 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 4: these days. We're not doing in person things now, we're 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 4: doing a lot of zoom stuff. I'm pretty comfortable with 21 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 4: the zoom and we're doing a lot of shows, so 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 4: that is very definitely happening. And yeah, our company store 23 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 4: is open four days a week and people have been 24 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 4: coming in and looking at the silo, and you know, 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 4: we're getting ready to We've been doing broadcasting shows and 26 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 4: recording shows and the only thing we're not doing is 27 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 4: in person students. You know, COVID changed everything for us, 28 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 4: as it did for everybody, and we're still trying to 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 4: figure out what the next move is going to be, 30 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,639 Speaker 4: but so far we're alive and kicking. 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 3: Well, you're coming to the City Winery in Boston June 32 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 3: twenty third, and it's a great venue and it's just 33 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 3: going to be Yorma Acoustic, right. 34 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 4: That's correct, It's Yorma and Yorma. 35 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: Can I be your road crew? 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 4: I'm the easiest guy in the world, I really am. 37 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 3: So the news broke that you and mister Jack Cassidy 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 3: will be doing the last round of the Electric Hot 39 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: Tuna tourret But tell me the thought behind that decision. 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean things like that. You know, those 41 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: are momentous decisions in our lives, of course, because we've 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 4: been doing it for so long. But there's a lot, 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 4: a lot of pieces in play here and I'll give 44 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 4: you as many of them as I can remember off 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 4: the top of my head. And this is not an 46 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 4: order of importance. These are all pieces in play. So 47 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 4: one of the things is is that to do an 48 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 4: electric tour these days is extremely expensive, and people, well, 49 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 4: there's only three of you guys, and I go, yeah, 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 4: that's true, there's only three of us. But if you 51 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 4: got a bus and then you need a trailer, there's 52 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 4: a lot of stuff. I mean, I'm not complaining about expensive, 53 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 4: because everybody's got expensive. But so that's the expensive is 54 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: a factor, the fact that that you know, at almost 55 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 4: eighty three, I'm still really pretty darn vigorous, you know, 56 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 4: but if electric shows take a lot out of it. 57 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 4: But that's not the main reason either. One of the 58 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 4: things I think is that, you know, we really the 59 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 4: only time I pick up an electric guitar is when 60 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 4: I get together with the guys. I'm not one of 61 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 4: these guys that woodsheds by himself, because I'm not I'm 62 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 4: not a chop sead in that way. When I play 63 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 4: electric music, I like to play with people, and I 64 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 4: need those people to play with. And we only get 65 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 4: together when we're going to do a tour, and then 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 4: we take some time to rehearse and get to know 67 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 4: each other, et cetera, et cetera. So so for me, 68 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 4: the electric shows it's not as dynamic a living art 69 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 4: form for me as the acoustic thing that I do 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 4: all the time, either by myself or with Jack or 71 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 4: with my friend John hurl But or Larry Campbell a 72 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: bunch of my other friends. There's just something more emotionally 73 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 4: immediate to me at this moment about playing the acoustic music. 74 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 4: And so you know, and that's pretty much the pieces 75 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 4: that are in play on this. 76 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: I get it completely. 77 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: So you've always been a teacher, yes, throughout your life, 78 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 3: and you've always been a learner also, Yeah, what have 79 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: you recently learned or relearned? 80 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 4: Sure? So you know, I mean, you know, guys like 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,600 Speaker 4: me are always absorbing stuff. You know, Guitar players are 82 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,679 Speaker 4: Gregarius Lot and you know, and where you learn musical 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 4: things the course and this and that. But I've got 84 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 4: this friend of mine named Frank Goodman. I've known him 85 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 4: for many years and he he was working in Astville 86 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: for a number of years writing song as a songwriter 87 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 4: and he's retired now. But anyway, so he wrote this 88 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 4: song called where are my old friend's gone. Come hell 89 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 4: or I water the crik's going to rise. We're still 90 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 4: hanging on, but they're dropping like flies. Oh Lord, where 91 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 4: are my old Friend's gone? It's sort of like, you know, 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 4: it's a song that I can relate to. It's a 93 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 4: kind of it's a funny song and it's a lot 94 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 4: of fun anyway. The point the learning thing, it's in 95 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 4: the key of C. I've been playing songs in the 96 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 4: kysc for well over the better part of half a century. 97 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 4: What new was there to learn? And the answer is notewise, 98 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 4: probably not much, But in the way things are assembled, 99 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 4: probably a lot. And all of a sudden there's this 100 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: superficially simple little song that just uses the normal C 101 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: chord C A minor EF. I mean, just a normal 102 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 4: gaggle of you know, circle of fifth C songs, but 103 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 4: they're so artfully put together, and you'll and you'll be 104 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 4: hearing it when I'm coming up your way, by the way, 105 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 4: because I'm starting to do this song and just the 106 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 4: little licks and stuff like that, and it was so 107 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: different from the way that I play normally. I just 108 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 4: sort of assume things to make of mind, but in 109 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: this case, I really liked what Frank did, so I 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 4: found a Vimeo video of him doing it, and I 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 4: studied it for about a month. I mean, so I 112 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 4: can kind of replicate his moves that were different than mine, 113 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 4: you know anyway, And so here I am in the 114 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 4: first position see song guitar players. We know exactly what 115 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 4: I'm talking about. What more can you learn? And the 116 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 4: answer is you never know? And probably a lot. 117 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 3: So since we took our walk last year, the big 118 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 3: talk has been AI, Artificial intelligence. Oh boy, where do 119 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 3: you think it's going to do to musicians into the 120 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 3: music industry? 121 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,559 Speaker 4: You know? It's so yeah, it's a big science fiction buff. 122 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 4: Of course, I'm all over this stuff, and there's a 123 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 4: bunch of great series about it. I mean, but I'm 124 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 4: not a scientist, and it's like, who knows? Really? I mean, 125 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 4: I would like to think that on some level there 126 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 4: is some inherent quality to human to the creativity that 127 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 4: the humanity is endowed with, if you're lucky, that will 128 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 4: not be able to be replicated by AI. And I 129 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 4: guess maybe the flip side of that, again being a 130 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 4: science fiction fan, is as if I'm completely wrong and 131 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 4: AI can do all this stuff, maybe we can learn 132 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 4: from it. Who knows. I mean, I don't know. On 133 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 4: many levels, it's scary stuff in a lot of ways. 134 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 4: But as an artist, I really believe that there's a 135 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 4: human quality that cannot be replicated by machines, no matter 136 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: how smart. 137 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 3: So I have a couple of questions from some members 138 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: of the Taking a Walk listening audience. 139 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 4: Sure. 140 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: First one comes from a gentleman by the. 141 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: Name of Mussy, who happens to be my neighbor who 142 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: lives around the block, and he wanted me to ask 143 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 3: you the first album or concert that you went to 144 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 3: that really got you fixated on finger picking? 145 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 4: Oh, fingerpicking. That's a good one. That's a good one. Okay. 146 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 4: I guess the first time I became aware of fingerpicking, 147 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 4: I was probably it was probably Wow. I might not 148 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: have even been playing the guitar yet, it would it 149 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 4: would have yeah, it would have been. Yeah. I think 150 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 4: this before I got a guitar. Would have been in 151 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 4: the early fifties, and we went to I lived in Washington, 152 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 4: d C. We went to a Pete Seeger show somewhere 153 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 4: probably I don't remember where, a listener auditorium maybe, who knows, 154 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 4: And just because I sort of was really entranced by 155 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 4: what Pete was doing on the guitar more than the banjo, 156 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 4: but the banjo too. He's holding these fretted instruments in 157 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 4: his both hands were moving and this music was coming out, 158 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 4: and I remember that I made my dad bring me backstage, 159 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 4: and I made Pete let me touch his fingers and 160 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 4: his fingerpicks, and this before I played. I met Pete 161 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 4: Seeger a lifetime later and told him the story. He 162 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 4: was not as excited about the story as I was. 163 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 4: But I think that was the first time. And then 164 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 4: later on in the fifties, I started playing guitar. It 165 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 4: was not fingerpicking. I was not really even aware of 166 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 4: the possibilities of it. And when I was in Antioch 167 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 4: College in the summer of nineteen sixty or the spring 168 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 4: quart of nineteen sixty, when I met Ian Buchanan, who's 169 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: the guy that he taught me to play, there was 170 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 4: a couple guys in the house that played fingerstyle music 171 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 4: and I got to see it. And when Ian took 172 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 4: me under his wing and taught me to it, that 173 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 4: was the deal. The next thing, of course, is when 174 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 4: I was working in New York City and I actually 175 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 4: got to see Reverend Davis play that's awesome. 176 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 3: Next question comes from our friend Mark from the Cleveland, 177 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 3: Ohio area. He wanted to know, you know, from all 178 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 3: of the various offshoots from the Airplane, where there's been 179 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: so much solo work and other projects that certainly many 180 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: of the band members took off on, what are some 181 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: of your favorites from your your your co conspirators. 182 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: Wow, Well, you know the the Airplane got me into 183 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 4: rock and roll and when and when I when Jack 184 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 4: and I split off and and and formed Hot Tuna, 185 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 4: I think that we were in some ways going back 186 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: to our first love. The good news for our first 187 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,599 Speaker 4: love with that kind of traditional music was is that 188 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 4: was heavily. I had brought her about Pellette of Colors 189 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 4: as a result of my experience in an Indio syncratic 190 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 4: rock band. But the point that I'm getting at here 191 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: is I don't think I was really that much interested 192 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 4: in where my co conspirators were going, because I really 193 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 4: wasn't interested in their music. Although I wish them success, 194 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 4: I mean, will Jack and I always joke, you know 195 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 4: about the starship we always quit to quit the band 196 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 4: before they make the big bucks, you know, because the 197 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 4: Starship was a huge hit band of the eighties, which 198 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 4: we were not, but their music didn't really set me 199 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 4: on fire in the same way that some of the 200 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 4: earlier stuff did. Anyway, does that make any sense that 201 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:34,679 Speaker 4: I answered that question on some level? 202 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely so. 203 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: On a recent episode of this podcast, we had the 204 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 3: author and music critic from the Bay Area, Joel Selvin on. 205 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 4: Joel Great Guy, and. 206 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: I asked him about his relationship with Bill Graham, and 207 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 3: what he said is, essentially Bill always thought that Joel 208 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 3: worked for him and that was sort of the relationship. 209 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: And I think Joel, you know, took a lot of 210 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 3: what Bill said, you know, with a grain of salt. Ultimately, Sure, 211 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: what was your relationship like with Bill Graham? 212 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 4: So yeah, So, first of all, I totally get what 213 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 4: Joel's talking about there, and I think he hit the 214 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 4: nail absolutely right on the head. So so Bill was 215 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 4: an interesting guy, and you know, we we we met 216 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 4: him doing a benefit when he was working for the 217 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 4: San Francisco mind Troup. We did a benefit for him, 218 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 4: and at the time, he seemed to have organizational capacities 219 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 4: that that exceeded the norm of the sort of hippie 220 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 4: consciousness that was San Francisco at the time. I mean, 221 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 4: if you think about the music scene in San Francisco, 222 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 4: it almost was in a parallel universe in a lot 223 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 4: of ways. And I remember that some of the people 224 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 4: that I met professionally later on, there were bands from 225 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 4: you know, blues bands from Chicago, you know, bands from 226 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: New York, bands from LA that really thought about us 227 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 4: as sort of like bumbling amateurs, which by their standards, 228 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 4: in some ways we were, but we did okay. Anyway. 229 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 4: Bill had a way of like sort of like pulling 230 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 4: those bumbling amateur threads together again. He started a very 231 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: successful you know, the film War, which lives on in 232 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 4: a way to this day. He just had kind of 233 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 4: had a ways of getting things done. But like Joel said, 234 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 4: I think Bill always treated everybody as if they worked 235 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 4: for him, which is why ultimately we parted company with 236 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 4: him as a management company. But Bill just got things done, 237 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 4: and there was something in spite of his sometimes arrogant abrasiveness, 238 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 4: there was something endearing about that possibilities. I mean, Chad Helms, 239 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 4: it was sort of like his counterpart with the avalon 240 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 4: ballroom and stuff. He got things done in his way, 241 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 4: but not in is not in as predictable a way, 242 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 4: so you're always. 243 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Looking towards the future in terms of. 244 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 3: New musicians to play with, to inspire you. You keep 245 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 3: it fresh that way. Who are some of the people 246 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 3: on the horizon that you want to talk about? 247 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 4: Wow? So mostly I think the stuff that sets me 248 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 4: on fire is singer songwriters. I'm really more interesting in 249 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 4: the tell that I am in guitar lis although you 250 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 4: never know when the guitar looks goll pop up, don't 251 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 4: get me wrong, but I think that again, it's about 252 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 4: the story. And earlier this year, a couple months ago, 253 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 4: I got you know, Mary Chapin Carpenter has been kind 254 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 4: of like my poet laureate and the song word is 255 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 4: I like tend to be female. Aggretchen Peters is another one. 256 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 4: But so Mary Chapin Carpenter did this album, I guess 257 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: a couple of years ago. I was unaware of it. 258 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 4: I just stumbled on it somehow called Between the Dirt 259 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 4: and Stars, and so I immediately got it on Title, 260 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 4: which is a high end streaming service, and I bought 261 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 4: the vinyl and all you know, when I go crazy 262 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 4: when I get stuff, I had to get the vinyl 263 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 4: and the CD and all this stuff. And you know, 264 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: I've been listening to her since the eighties when she 265 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 4: put her first record out. I'm just here the stories 266 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 4: that she tells. You know, she's had pop hits also, 267 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 4: but they're not the most interesting songs to me lyrically, 268 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 4: But the poetry of her tale just sets me on fire. 269 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 4: And that's the kind of stuff I'm always looking for. 270 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 4: You know, Kareeine Poulwart, she's a Scotch Scotch folk Ish songwriter, 271 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 4: very fond of her Gretchen Peters again, great songwriter, and 272 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 4: that's the kind of stuff that I look for. 273 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: Who did you learn your storytelling from? 274 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 4: Wow? I think that I think I just liked in 275 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 4: this case kind of funny because on some levels, when 276 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 4: I was a kid, I was very shy. You'd have 277 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 4: to make me talk. But once I get talking, I 278 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 4: like to talk. And we've talked for a while, so 279 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 4: you know, kind of know how I am. And I've 280 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 4: always liked reading. I've always enjoyed reading, and I've always 281 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 4: enjoyed a good story. I don't think i've I don't 282 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 4: think I specifically set out to find that, but that's 283 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 4: the kind of thing that draws me and if there's 284 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 4: a good story to be heard or. 285 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 3: Tell, talk about the latest project on Red House Records, 286 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 3: if you would. 287 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 4: So, So we're not with Red House anymore. They've that's 288 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 4: an interesting story. I was a Red House was bought 289 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 4: by Compass, and Compass is a big record company, and 290 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 4: that's a national company. They really don't care very much 291 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: about us. Good news for me is I don't owe 292 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 4: them anything. Howtuna does owe them a record. But anyway, 293 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 4: so we've been doing stuff with this with this company 294 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 4: herbut and I did this stuff for this company out 295 00:16:55,160 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 4: and in this French company and they kind of it's 296 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 4: sort of like a boutique, limited edition kind of thing 297 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 4: that they did the river flows for us. But they 298 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 4: do beautiful packaging, they do high end vinyl. They let 299 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 4: us do exactly what we want. And it's kind of 300 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 4: like it's kind of like a dream culture Factories name 301 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 4: of the company. It's kind of like a dream situation 302 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 4: for artists. 303 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: You know. 304 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 4: We don't depend on record sales to make our nut, 305 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 4: you know. But to me, people go, well, you could 306 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,439 Speaker 4: have just been streaming stuff for years like the kids do, 307 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 4: And I go, I'm really not interested in that. I 308 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 4: like tangible things I liked, like I told, like the 309 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: Mary Chapin Carpenter thing. I got the vinyl, I got 310 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 4: the CD, and I and I downloaded the high End. 311 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 4: You know, the whole deal. You know, so so yeah, 312 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 4: so so so Johnny Herbut and I we're getting ready 313 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 4: to do another thing, another record. I'm not quite sure. 314 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 4: I think we're gonna call it another life. It's after 315 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 4: a yeah. Maybe, I don't know, But in any case, 316 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 4: we're gonna do this same kind of thing we did 317 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 4: with the two river Flows records, where we're going to 318 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:04,880 Speaker 4: get together at the Rams when I get home from 319 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 4: this trip. We're gonna get my buddy Justin Ghipp, who's 320 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 4: Larry Campbell's production partner and our drummer. It's going to 321 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 4: bring a studio down and we're just gonna play songs 322 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 4: until we get enough songs to fill a record. 323 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: I love it well. 324 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 3: June twenty third, it's the big opportunity to see Yorma 325 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 3: at the City Winery. Yorma, I'm so grateful for catching 326 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 3: up with you again, and I look forward to seeing 327 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 3: you play in Boston on the twenty third. 328 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 4: You better stop by and say hello. You know, I 329 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 4: love the City Winery folks. You know, it's really interesting. 330 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 4: You know, I've been working for them for a long 331 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 4: time since they since they first opened, and I think 332 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 4: that I personally think they do a great job. And 333 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: here's a funny thing for you. In Nashville. You know, 334 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 4: I've got so many friends. I couldn't draw flies in 335 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 4: Nashville until they opened a City Winery. And of course, 336 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 4: although the last time we played there, we played the 337 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 4: Big Room at the Country Music Hall of Fame, So 338 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,639 Speaker 4: I guess I'm moving up in the world. But for years, 339 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 4: you know, we played the Bill Court, nobody came. Thank god. 340 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 4: I know people there, you know, But the City Winer, 341 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 4: the City Winery has given me and Jack and my 342 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,959 Speaker 4: buddies a home and we appreciate that. 343 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: Well, you're the best. You're a treasure. And thank you 344 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: for being on. 345 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 4: Well, thanks thanks for taking a walk with me. Walking 346 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,640 Speaker 4: with you is exhausting. And yeah, stop, I say hello, 347 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 4: I'll be up there. Thank you, my friend, I came, 348 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 4: my brother. 349 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 350 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.