Speaker 1: Hey, viewers, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is an explicit podcast about
Speaker 1: queer sex, filter dirty words, and unfiltered descriptions of sexual activities.
Speaker 1: If hearing about orgies, anonymous sex, kink, fetish, and more
Speaker 1: offends your sensibilities, you might want to skip this.
Speaker 2: Viewer discretion is advised. It's definitely not for kids.
Speaker 1: All right, Cruising Confession time, Chris, have you ever been
Speaker 1: with a DL guy?
Speaker 3: If they were DL, they didn't tell me, and it
Speaker 3: definitely was in like high school. I guess they were
Speaker 3: yell because we couldn't talk about it right, you know,
Speaker 3: like I could like publicize the fact that, like we
Speaker 3: were hanging out together. So yeah, I guess high school
Speaker 3: would be the time.
Speaker 1: It is funny because I think a lot of queer
Speaker 1: people are sort of in the closet for a little bit.
Speaker 2: And I mean not all of them obviously, but like
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: In high school, I was like, so I love musical theater,
Speaker 3: debate club, and I'm straight, Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Believable, believable, she's an actor. Okay, she's an actor.
Speaker 4: What about you?
Speaker 2: Have you ever been with a DL person? There was
Speaker 2: a guy on a sports team in my high school. Okay.
Speaker 2: He like instant messaged me at eleven pm one night
Speaker 2: and he was like, Hey, what are you doing? And
Speaker 2: I was like what what text? Yeah? Then we started.
Speaker 1: I knew he had a girlfriend, okay, and we started
Speaker 1: sharing like sexual stories and he's like, yeah, I've always
Speaker 1: been interested in like putting stuff up my butt and
Speaker 1: hooking up with a dude. Oh, and we like almost
Speaker 1: hooked up in a mall parking lot. He was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'll drive out to the O Vito marketplace to hook
Speaker 1: up with you at midnight.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I'm down. And then I
Speaker 2: was like, how am I going to leave my house?
Speaker 1: Yes, at midnight and explain to my Puerto Rican parents
Speaker 1: that I'm just going to the mall.
Speaker 2: Girl, I was about to risk it all for a deal.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 5: Was he hot?
Speaker 2: He was? Okay, well he was.
Speaker 3: So I'm wondering when was the first time you heard
Speaker 3: DL as like I termed to describe people who were
Speaker 3: not out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So for me, it was like daytime talk shows, the
Speaker 1: Oprah moment, these men around the down low, and what's
Speaker 1: wild is it was usually men of color. So the
Speaker 1: term felt very much racialized and kind of tied to
Speaker 1: a specific demographic or a specific type of person, because
Speaker 1: I was like, I know a lot of closeted white guys,
Speaker 1: but I didn't see them on Rocky Lake, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like, so, yeah, it was interesting. How about you when
Speaker 3: you first shared the term around the same time. Honestly,
Speaker 3: I think being a black person and growing up in
Speaker 3: the nineties, there was all this conversation around HIV AIDS
Speaker 3: and how it was ravishing our community, and like that's
Speaker 3: where the conversation started.
Speaker 2: It was like, well, it's all these DL.
Speaker 3: Guys going out and getting HIV and giving into our women.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The blame is always on the individual and never on
Speaker 1: the government or the institutions of power that A forced
Speaker 1: people to be closeted and b don't provide folks with
Speaker 1: access to healthcare adequate healthcare. It's like, babe, it's the
Speaker 1: solution is simple. In today's episode, we offer a reappraisal
Speaker 1: of the controversial figure of the down low or DL
Speaker 1: guy and unpack some of the stigma and stereotypes that
Speaker 1: perpetuate harm today while look at some of the reasons
Speaker 1: folks might feel like they need to stay in the closet,
Speaker 1: to their families, or in their workplace.
Speaker 3: First, we talked to author Brontes Parnell about his relationships
Speaker 3: with DL guys.
Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to an anonymous DL guest who uses
Speaker 1: Sniffies to hook up with gay and straight curious men.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 2: I am Gabe Gonzils.
Speaker 3: I'm Chris Patterson Rosso. Each week weeks more the sublime
Speaker 3: world of queer sex, cruising and relationship.
Speaker 1: We'll be talking to queer folks of all kinds. Ask
Speaker 1: them questions, swap sex stories, share intimate revelations.
Speaker 2: A lot of us are discovering ourselves in cruising spaces.
Speaker 3: This happened to me at this toilet stall, in the
Speaker 3: library or the airport.
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody's gonna fuck a little harder.
Speaker 4: Here, damn.
Speaker 2: So I've been like the neighborhood flat, and I took
Speaker 2: pride in that I was so afraid but yet so intrigued.
Speaker 5: And the more I gave to him, the more.
Speaker 3: He could take. Our first guest today is Brontes Parnell.
Speaker 3: Brontes is a writer, poet, punk dancer, director, and an
Speaker 3: icon to the rad queers.
Speaker 4: Everywhere.
Speaker 1: His award winning books include Since I Laid My Burden
Speaker 1: Down and one Hundred Boyfriends, which won a Lambda Literary
Speaker 1: Award for Gay Fiction. His newest book, Ten Bridges I've Burnt,
Speaker 1: is in stores now.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Hi Son says, should we
Speaker 3: talk about the elephant in the room? That DL article
Speaker 3: that was on Hush Sniffy's.
Speaker 5: I thought, that's why y'all flew me here, so a
Speaker 5: little context.
Speaker 3: Sniffy's published this article by writer Zachary Zane and it
Speaker 3: was all about enjoying sleeping with deal guys. And then
Speaker 3: the online comments came in pretty swiftly and intensely, and
Speaker 3: you actually made a post commenting on the comments and
Speaker 3: the article itself. Do you remember what like the issue
Speaker 3: you took with the response to that article was and
Speaker 3: what you were feeling?
Speaker 6: Okay, well, basically there's kind of like, uh, basically, a
Speaker 6: lot of the commenters were like framing all download guys
Speaker 6: is having a moral deficit for not being out of
Speaker 6: the closet. And the point I was making is if
Speaker 6: you're having sex on Sniffy's, you already have a moral deficit.
Speaker 6: Wily fingers and like, aren't we here to do sketchy
Speaker 6: shit with sketchy people. That's why I signed up. So
Speaker 6: there was kind of like this moral grand standing where
Speaker 6: I was just like, I'm gonna bring you bitches back
Speaker 6: to earth and the rudest way possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it it's the only way to ground the community.
Speaker 2: Get the girls together.
Speaker 6: I'm just like, girls were getting older. There's not a
Speaker 6: lot of options. Shut up and take the dig.
Speaker 3: Do you remember when this whole thing blew up in
Speaker 3: the late nineties around DL guys.
Speaker 6: Oh man, Yeah, I remember it, but I mean it
Speaker 6: was just it was framing and it was bullshit.
Speaker 5: Did Gregory?
Speaker 2: Actually I love did Gregory?
Speaker 5: But did Gregory?
Speaker 6: Like I remember him saying something to the effect in
Speaker 6: this panel of Oh so there are black men who
Speaker 6: have sex with other men, you know, and keep it
Speaker 6: as a secret life.
Speaker 2: But we are to believe that.
Speaker 6: White men don't do this, and of course, right like
Speaker 6: when white men do it, they are libertines or bisexual
Speaker 6: or whatever. Like DL is a specifically racialized term, and
Speaker 6: it's always on the head of like you know, the
Speaker 6: fucking lascivious you know, plantation bull or like you know,
Speaker 6: the Mexican day worker who's like coming to destroy your bussy.
Speaker 6: It's like, no, it's like this totally sensationalized thing. And
Speaker 6: to be quite honest, like in the realm that we
Speaker 6: interact in, these men don't act any different than the
Speaker 6: sketchy baggots you fuck like, I.
Speaker 5: Just don't, you know.
Speaker 6: But it's the framing of it that makes it, you know,
Speaker 6: it's kind of the thing that's fueling the desire for people.
Speaker 2: I think, so like, yes, we could all agree.
Speaker 3: Sniffy's as an app that is used by many types
Speaker 3: of men, deal men included.
Speaker 6: Sometimes DL is the connotation of just like I don't
Speaker 6: want you all niggas in my business. Oka't look because
Speaker 6: you know, like I'll be in Oakland and they'll be
Speaker 6: guys claiming to be DL. But like this one guy
Speaker 6: walked in my room and was like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 6: got the guitar and books. My cousin fucked you, And
Speaker 6: I was like, you supposed to be d L. But
Speaker 6: y'all y'all talking amongst each other. But I also think
Speaker 6: that it, like the the notion of it has kind
Speaker 6: of morphed too, you know, which I also think is
Speaker 6: kind of fine. There is part of me too, Like
Speaker 6: I'm like, I really spent these years of my life
Speaker 6: like wearing this rainbow crop.
Speaker 5: Toppying like and I'm gay except me, But like what
Speaker 5: if I.
Speaker 6: Just shut my fucking mouth and been DL, Like it
Speaker 6: could have been so much easier, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: Like no, cause it's like and there's always this thing
Speaker 6: that I talk about, like I'll have like young d
Speaker 6: L boys come and talk to me about like should
Speaker 6: I come out of the closet? Should I'm not but
Speaker 6: me being in like the radical San Francisco vibe, I'm like,
Speaker 6: the second he comes out of the closet, the only
Speaker 6: thing that's gonna happen is a bunch of trifling ass
Speaker 6: white bottoms on grind theer're gonna be blowing up his
Speaker 6: phone all day. It's not you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 6: like one on the plantation roll thing. It's like it's
Speaker 6: like it's treacherous and so like sometimes I'm almost.
Speaker 5: Like, no, baby, just stay, just stay, like you know.
Speaker 6: What I'm saying, Like, but then also even thinking about
Speaker 6: the fact that like Stiffy's is probably the only place
Speaker 6: I get trade anymore, Like the second the second I
Speaker 6: turned forty, the second I was over two hundred and
Speaker 6: twenty pounds and the second I had gray hair. Nobody
Speaker 6: talked to me on Grinder. Wait, white men especially like
Speaker 6: don't talk to me on Grinder. I had a scruff
Speaker 6: profile for two years. Not one hit right anybody that
Speaker 6: I am in. When I am, I want Sniffies and
Speaker 6: I was. I started Sniffy's in like quarantine. So Quarantine
Speaker 6: was fun. Now I feel like it's just like a
Speaker 6: bunch of scammers and gay dudes, But like Quarantine was fun,
Speaker 6: and it was always the anonymous profiles where it was
Speaker 6: like the jackpot.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: Like, but I noticed that when I, you know, started
Speaker 6: going through Man, I pause, the dal dude that you
Speaker 6: know was you know, probably part of the prison population
Speaker 6: became like my number one fan, and thank god for them,
Speaker 6: But where would we be, yo guy. But it's also
Speaker 6: too it's like I don't know, like we're all just
Speaker 6: fucking sketch, you know, like we're all pretty sketch. But
Speaker 6: I'm also saying I still have as much sex as
Speaker 6: I had when I was like, you know, that twenty
Speaker 6: year old thought going to the gym five days a week,
Speaker 6: three hours a day, but like when your body change,
Speaker 6: how the scope of your trade changes, how you have
Speaker 6: access the sex changes. It's weird, right because we're essentially
Speaker 6: what we're having here is like an intersectional conversation about sex,
Speaker 6: but people don't like intersections because intersections are always black holes.
Speaker 6: Like we can discuss how it like kind of has
Speaker 6: no meeting once. There's five different things we're talking about.
Speaker 6: But I don't say this to uphold these men, but
Speaker 6: I do. I am glad that there is this app
Speaker 6: that kind of kind of did away with how Grinder
Speaker 6: became Christian mingo all of a sudden, seriously, because it
Speaker 6: became like about, oh sorry, you be on Grinder sometimes,
Speaker 6: and I just feel like it's a bunch of white
Speaker 6: dudes asking you what your earning potential is, and like
Speaker 6: if you have the nine inch dick, you still have
Speaker 6: to have the apartment or the education, Like there's real interview,
Speaker 6: whereas like sniffy dudes are just like I want you
Speaker 6: face down, ass up social Security card on the bed.
Speaker 5: Kind of excited.
Speaker 7: The whole series, so I have to have then, what's
Speaker 7: been good or about about hooking up with DL men
Speaker 7: from a sexual and maybe an emotional perspective.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 6: It's when I say, DM, I don't think they act
Speaker 6: any different than the gay is.
Speaker 5: What I will tell you is, Okay, here's a funny story.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: I got this one guy that was like, okay, it
Speaker 6: was a white guy. It was this white top and
Speaker 6: he was using pictures of a light skinned black boys
Speaker 6: dick and talking in a a v like African American
Speaker 6: vernacular English, be like, yeah, I'm gonna show up.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna beat them cakes up.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna do all this.
Speaker 6: But I want you like you know, I want you blindfolded,
Speaker 6: doors locked or door unlocked, like face down. But like
Speaker 6: I live on like Martin Luther King Junior Way in Oakland.
Speaker 6: You know it's always a scared street. Right, I'll leave
Speaker 6: my door on locks. And I was also like, I
Speaker 6: got roommates. This is the Bay Area. What the fuck
Speaker 6: do you think I live alone?
Speaker 5: Anyway?
Speaker 6: Right, I get to the door and I answered the door,
Speaker 6: and it's like, not just any white boy. I'm talking
Speaker 6: man Bun Berkeley, sweater, burken stocks.
Speaker 2: You got like Rachel Doloso.
Speaker 5: But he was like, oh.
Speaker 6: Real, okay, no, but like y'all, but seriously, he has
Speaker 6: some serious dick on him, and I still let him
Speaker 6: hit right yeah, But then later he like hit me
Speaker 6: up and was like, hey, man, that's fucked up. That
Speaker 6: was supposed to be anonymous, and I was like, you
Speaker 6: were supposed to be black. But the thing about it
Speaker 6: was like.
Speaker 2: His it's like.
Speaker 5: Here's but because it's a weird.
Speaker 6: His fetish was impersonating a download black man so he
Speaker 6: could go fuck blindfolded black bottoms, like okay. But then
Speaker 6: afterwards his boyfriend texted me on the app and was like, hey,
Speaker 6: did this guy come over? Was he using like was
Speaker 6: he using these black boys pictures?
Speaker 5: And then I was like yeah, yeah girl, yeah, yo,
Speaker 5: man skitch. But then he was like, well how was
Speaker 5: the six?
Speaker 6: And I was like and so I blocked him because
Speaker 6: I thought that was like the guy or whatever.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but so.
Speaker 3: That wild participating in someone else's fantasy without your knowledge,
Speaker 3: where I.
Speaker 6: Can't do that every day. Also, like it was like
Speaker 6: totally fine. Yeah, but then also I don't even when
Speaker 6: we're like yeah the dick was good, I'm sorry, like
Speaker 6: as I go through mana pause too, like part of
Speaker 6: me too is just like good dick is like not
Speaker 6: that hard to come by the right, you know, because
Speaker 6: I remember being it, like, you know, in my twenties
Speaker 6: and just remembering I always had to have the most
Speaker 6: porn ideal of the most thunder god dig down, and like,
Speaker 6: you know, the older you get, you're just like, oh,
Speaker 6: I just need to get this shit done so I
Speaker 6: can get on fucking, you know, make my spaghetti and
Speaker 6: go to bed. You know, sex becomes as I treat
Speaker 6: sex more as a natural function of you know, human life,
Speaker 6: you know, and not always having to have it be
Speaker 6: this like I don't know, this porn ideal or whatever
Speaker 6: kind of changes in the shape of how I engage.
Speaker 1: I'm very interested in these sort of porn ideals too,
Speaker 1: right because on the one hand, we have talked about
Speaker 1: how coming out in some places is not safe even
Speaker 1: still to this day, or not comfortable for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, which is why we stop people in the closet.
Speaker 2: But I do think there's like a flip.
Speaker 1: Side to the a DL men are viewed, and part
Speaker 1: of what causes the kind of controversy surrounding the idolizing
Speaker 1: of the DL guy, the idea that there's something harder
Speaker 1: about them in bed because they are straight or they
Speaker 1: give the impression of like uber masculinity. I don't know,
Speaker 1: how do you kind of unpack that when you're thinking
Speaker 1: about this topic that's.
Speaker 6: All across the board, Okay, Like just if I say
Speaker 6: the mean average of stories I hear with these men, right,
Speaker 6: they are usually in their forties, the wife has had
Speaker 6: the second kid and has stopped putting out. Right, They
Speaker 6: usually are in social circle. Straight men have very close
Speaker 6: social circles, and it's very hard for them to be
Speaker 6: sleeping with women within those circles. So I think they
Speaker 6: know they're at that age where a rectile dysfunction is
Speaker 6: about to hit, and they're just like, this is my
Speaker 6: last ten years to get it in, And so they
Speaker 6: go into this realm like where they can have complete anonymousness,
Speaker 6: like there's actually something very functional about like kind of
Speaker 6: what they're doing and actually makes a lot of sense,
Speaker 6: and even like the idea of them cheating, it's funny.
Speaker 6: My mom, the biggest like sex positive awesome person is
Speaker 6: like kind of like my mom, right, And I remember
Speaker 6: like talking to my mom on time and being like, so, like, Mom,
Speaker 6: do like all men cheat? And She's like, are you
Speaker 6: fucking stupid? Women cheat? Like when a man is cheating,
Speaker 6: Do you think he's only cheating with single women?
Speaker 5: He fucking someone's.
Speaker 6: Girlfriend, fucking someone's wife, Like do the actual map Like
Speaker 6: a lot of these guys, I do think that their
Speaker 6: wives have like other lovers or doing whatever. Some of
Speaker 6: these guys I think are coming in to like kind
Speaker 6: of act out these things that these mans do. Some
Speaker 6: shit to me where I'm like, if I was a woman,
Speaker 6: i'd call the police. But you know, like look at me,
Speaker 6: like I don't know, I'm pretty built. People fuck me
Speaker 6: like I'm a linebacker, so it's like I could take
Speaker 6: a beating, you know what I'm saying. But when you
Speaker 6: talk about them, like the stories are so across the board,
Speaker 6: and it really did make me think that like gay
Speaker 6: really is a political identity.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 6: I think it's like we live in a world where
Speaker 6: there was always room for the behavior, but the identity
Speaker 6: is what became the crisis. Men have found a way
Speaker 6: to have sex with other men forever years. Yeah, but
Speaker 6: now that we are in like this last seventy years
Speaker 6: of this kind of gay revolution, the subject becomes like identity, right.
Speaker 6: But then also sometimes I don't know, I feel there's
Speaker 6: ways I feel kind of left behind by the current
Speaker 6: sexual revolution in a way because I feel like it
Speaker 6: didn't make more faggots.
Speaker 5: In my head.
Speaker 6: Sometimes I'll be in Oakland and they'll be like I'll
Speaker 6: be hanging out with like the trans girls and the dolls,
Speaker 6: and all of them want to get their trade and
Speaker 6: go move to Sacramento and like live as white women
Speaker 6: in pick of fences. And now download men feel like
Speaker 6: they can just come in and fucking like, you know,
Speaker 6: you bang up all the gay bussy and not fucking
Speaker 6: owe nobody nothing. No fact, it's still been't asked to
Speaker 6: marry me yet. And for all this representation and all
Speaker 6: this openness, Like, why do I still feel like I
Speaker 6: don't know, I would have had better luck if I
Speaker 6: had just had like a lavender marriage in the fifties,
Speaker 6: You know, it doesn't. I always want to feel like
Speaker 6: there's a linear line we're moving towards freedom, but we
Speaker 6: seem to always make this curve back saying to the
Speaker 6: same old shit we've been stuck in.
Speaker 1: I've definitely found a couple of men in my neighborhood
Speaker 1: that are faceless profiles and are afraid of being like
Speaker 1: seen on an apple, like Sniffies because of work or
Speaker 1: their family, right, So it's like they're kind of out
Speaker 1: of their social circles, but they're not out of families
Speaker 1: at work, and at least in my neighborhood. I mean,
Speaker 1: I live off Avenue in Puerto Rico, but it's a
Speaker 1: lot of Latino men. I'm right at home, but it
Speaker 1: is a lot of other Latino men.
Speaker 6: Every time someone puts a face pic on Sniffy's too,
Speaker 6: I'm like, Reez is desperate. No one's there to be handsome,
Speaker 6: you know. But actually there was a while. There was
Speaker 6: a while. There was a period of about six months
Speaker 6: where I like didn't take any photos. I just let
Speaker 6: dudes come over because I was just like, how do
Speaker 6: I say it? In my twenties, I worked at the bathhouse,
Speaker 6: I worked at steam Marks.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 6: So there's something so crazy about like having spent most
Speaker 6: of my life in a situation where everyone's in towels,
Speaker 6: everything's kind of revealed. Men'll just walk up to you
Speaker 6: and grab your dick and be like yes or no,
Speaker 6: and like that's it. Where there's something about when you're
Speaker 6: having sex with a DL dude, he's coming to your
Speaker 6: house specifically just to see you, and I never even
Speaker 6: noticed how there's something actually magical about it doesn't matter
Speaker 6: what his dick look like, his body and also, to
Speaker 6: be honest, who truly has an unattractive face? I don't
Speaker 6: really think that that's like a true thing. Watching someone
Speaker 6: just undress in front of you and only be there
Speaker 6: for you is a way different magic than this kind
Speaker 6: of like you know this the way gay man participate
Speaker 6: in that like kind of bathhouse he like you're either
Speaker 6: cut or you're not kind of culture. That's kind of
Speaker 6: that was something that I thought was really special, And
Speaker 6: even as I transition into my next phase, I'm trying
Speaker 6: to find the outgay man that does that for me,
Speaker 6: you know, because that's the two things that I can't
Speaker 6: seem to reconcile.
Speaker 1: There's something that can feel very almost romantic about that, right,
Speaker 1: the just you experience, And there's a kind of intimacy
Speaker 1: that I feel like closeted men actually sort of emanate
Speaker 1: in in trusting that.
Speaker 2: This person is extremely vulnerable.
Speaker 3: Right, we know that they are absolutely hiding this part
Speaker 3: of themselves and they have chosen to come over. They
Speaker 3: are exposing themselves in a way that they wouldn't normally do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really vulnerable.
Speaker 6: Yeah, for sure, this one download trick. I've been seeing
Speaker 6: him for five years. I bought his kid's soccer gear
Speaker 6: because it's like, no.
Speaker 5: Because stepmom, well, well, because I looked.
Speaker 6: I thought about it too, because I was like, I
Speaker 6: was like you we were hanging out. I'm like, yo,
Speaker 6: like this fool has been digging me down for five years. Yeah, like,
Speaker 6: which is longer than most any gay relationship. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying. And my mom's boyfriends were
Speaker 6: such dicks. I was just like, oh, the least I
Speaker 6: could do is buy a kid's soccer gear to say
Speaker 6: thank you or something.
Speaker 3: So have you ever had a relationship with the DL
Speaker 3: person and had them come out as a results of
Speaker 3: your relationship.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I don't think they came out. A lot of them
Speaker 6: struggle with the notion of coming out. And these these
Speaker 6: are like these are like gay and Latino men like
Speaker 6: in their like forties and on, like they're trying to
Speaker 6: catch up to the gay revolution that happened in the
Speaker 6: nineties much less like this whole like this twenty twenty
Speaker 6: fourth thing, where doing you know? So even sometimes when
Speaker 6: I'm talking to them. I do have to think though, like, oh,
Speaker 6: they are of that age where like even when I
Speaker 6: moved to San Francisco, right and I was having sex
Speaker 6: and you know I was, I was like that pre
Speaker 6: prep bug chasing having sex with the Treasure Island media boys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like we were.
Speaker 6: But we were those boys in San Francisco in the
Speaker 6: early two thousands, and like, remember how dangerously we read
Speaker 6: to people. But the generation just before us, they were
Speaker 6: not having sex in their twenties like we were because
Speaker 6: of like the age epidemic and like how.
Speaker 5: Scary it was.
Speaker 6: And so now these men are like thrust into a
Speaker 6: new era where it's like, oh, like you have to
Speaker 6: send a dick pic to get laid. Oh I can
Speaker 6: bang people without contracting HIV. But now that there's not
Speaker 6: the stress of this, now I can deal with this
Speaker 6: backlog of like emotional stress around what does it mean
Speaker 6: to have sex with a man? What if I like
Speaker 6: this person and I keep coming to him? How do
Speaker 6: I say this to my family?
Speaker 5: You know, like.
Speaker 6: It's it's really it's really interesting, kind of like the
Speaker 6: helix of the heliks of just like consciousness and sex
Speaker 6: and all of them. I think I don't think everyone's
Speaker 6: everyone's kind of fascinating. It's fascinating to watch someone kind
Speaker 6: of learn how to walk, and like how we're all
Speaker 6: learning how to walk and reconfigure it whatever age we're at,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, all right, we've had such a good time
Speaker 2: with you. Unfortunately we do have to end.
Speaker 1: But I want to know what is coming up for
Speaker 1: you this summer and where can people find you online?
Speaker 6: I'm on rentman dot com word right now, I'm like,
Speaker 6: not even charging. I'm just doing the boyfriend experience as
Speaker 6: long as you buy me records.
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 6: And then I'm going on tour with my band on
Speaker 6: the East Coast this week, so you might not see that.
Speaker 6: But this summer leaky around, I'm finishing my sci fi
Speaker 6: book and yeah, just vacationing, hanging out in Oakland. So
Speaker 6: you can find me on Instagram at Bronton's Parnell.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, amazing. We'll have to take a field
Speaker 2: trip and come up to visit you. Yes, you can
Speaker 2: stay in the Sniffy office.
Speaker 1: After the break, we will be talking to a deal
Speaker 1: guy about his experience on Sniffi's and so much more.
Speaker 2: Stick around will be right back.
Speaker 5: It's actually gonna be me.
Speaker 3: So this is normally the portion of the show where
Speaker 3: we list our guest achievements and plug his latest product
Speaker 3: or release, but we can't do that today because our
Speaker 3: guest is anonymous. We aren't revealing any details about him
Speaker 3: because he is closeted and we want to protect his privacy.
Speaker 3: He is masked, and we are altering his voice.
Speaker 1: We're really thankful for his willingness to come speak about
Speaker 1: this top topic. Welcome to a cruising Confessions. How you
Speaker 1: doing I'm doing good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, amazing, Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1: Truly, No, we appreciate you being here. So I think
Speaker 1: the first question is one of a lot of people
Speaker 1: must be asking themselves. Right, it's twenty twenty four. It
Speaker 1: feels like, more than any other time in history, it
Speaker 1: is safe for people to come out. So what is
Speaker 1: it that makes you feel that you need to stay
Speaker 1: closeted or deal?
Speaker 4: I think, like you said, I mean, the only reason
Speaker 4: why you're so deal at this point is because you
Speaker 4: feel like you need to because it's New York, like,
Speaker 4: it's twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Four, and how long have you been DL?
Speaker 4: Fuck? All my life. Yeah, I mean, I feel like
Speaker 4: there's stages to d on this. I was saying in
Speaker 4: the beginning, of course, it's like DL to the point
Speaker 4: where you're not even sharing a picture of yourself, and
Speaker 4: then there's DL where it's just like, Okay, some people know,
Speaker 4: but like the core people in my life don't know,
Speaker 4: you know. So I feel like I've been DAL my
Speaker 4: whole life. But then i just went through the chapters
Speaker 4: of d on this and I'm in this face now
Speaker 4: where like some people know, but like the people that
Speaker 4: are like super core in my life there they don't know. So,
Speaker 4: you know, it's like I'm DEAL to some people, I'm
Speaker 4: not and then to other people like I'm not the
Speaker 4: d O because they know who I am.
Speaker 3: So, and do you do any intermingling between those two
Speaker 3: groups of people or do you keep them separate?
Speaker 4: I don't know, we keep them separate. I think no,
Speaker 4: that would be a disaster to like mix them, because
Speaker 4: it's like you're just like two different people, two different worlds,
Speaker 4: you know, So I'm mixing them. You just you put
Speaker 4: yourself in a really really fucked position.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, for real.
Speaker 1: I'm also curious, do you identify as gay or bisexual.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm definitely gay, but you know, fun night's a
Speaker 4: fun night. Like if I I think I had like
Speaker 4: I had a girlfriend of dated girls blah bah blah,
Speaker 4: but you know, I definitely want to focus on guys.
Speaker 4: It's super different with guys, like especially with like hook
Speaker 4: up culture. It's not this same as like when you're
Speaker 4: dating like hetero cis woman. I was telling I think
Speaker 4: Adam the director, like Sniffy's and all of that. It's
Speaker 4: like it's like go Puffer Dick and what's on demand
Speaker 4: at any time in any city. It's probably in more
Speaker 4: cities than fucking Uber. Oh yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: For sure Sniffy's is international. We're here like France, Germany.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but not in the UAE or some shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think there would be a time where
Speaker 1: you'd feel comfortable coming out to close friends and family.
Speaker 4: For the foreseeable future. No, the idea of of me
Speaker 4: telling someone like telling them like why would I do that?
Speaker 4: Would I ever go to someone and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: like I fucked this girl last night? Like if anything,
Speaker 4: there should be a choice, like when you first like
Speaker 4: are born, like oh I want to know what X
Speaker 4: y Z is gonna be. But now it's just like, oh,
Speaker 4: like where's your wife? Like oh blah blah blah when
Speaker 4: you're having kids, And how do you respond to those
Speaker 4: questions when you get them depends on who it is. Again,
Speaker 4: this goes back to like certain people know I'm dh
Speaker 4: certain people don't. But like if certain people ask me
Speaker 4: and I don't want them to know, I go along
Speaker 4: with it, like you know, I'm getting on. Maybe someone
Speaker 4: would say like I'm lying in a sense, but for me,
Speaker 4: it's like I see it as protection.
Speaker 1: Safety, true, and that's the reality for people, right it
Speaker 1: might not be someone's individual experience. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about this a brontest too. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of folks in New York and San Francisco that are like,
Speaker 1: you need to come out?
Speaker 2: Why you come out?
Speaker 4: I hate that song?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah they don't.
Speaker 1: Everyone's situation and experience is different, and there are places
Speaker 1: where it's not safe. Sometimes around family it's not safe.
Speaker 1: Sometimes with work it's not safe. So yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4: Facts And there was one time I was in La.
Speaker 4: I was in La just for personal reasons and there
Speaker 4: was this guy that I met and he was like
Speaker 4: he was basically like demeaning me because I wasn't out,
Speaker 4: and then he was telling me and I was telling
Speaker 4: him that looked like it's so stressful, blah blah blah,
Speaker 4: it's so stressful, like I feel like the weight on
Speaker 4: my shoulders touch shit. And he was on home. It
Speaker 4: must not be that heavy if you haven't like came
Speaker 4: out out. He's tweaking like you know, it's just yeah,
Speaker 4: like it's levels to d on this, and then there's
Speaker 4: like a level of respect that you some people should have.
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, we got to meet each other where we're at. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 2: we got to meet each other.
Speaker 4: Where we're at.
Speaker 2: I'm curious if the opposite is also true.
Speaker 1: If you ever feel like you get people chasing after
Speaker 1: you because your d O whenever you use an.
Speaker 4: App, Yeah, but it's mainly older guys. Interesting young guys
Speaker 4: are not DL chasers, Like it's always the older ones.
Speaker 4: It's always ones that are like married or just completely
Speaker 4: not in the mix at all. But yeah, it's never
Speaker 4: young guys. But honestly, even if you are d teacher,
Speaker 4: like I don't care, like most of the time we are,
Speaker 4: we both want just one thing, so like, let's just
Speaker 4: get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at the end of the day, no matter how
Speaker 3: we identify, and they.
Speaker 4: Don't care to be able to say page because you're
Speaker 4: not dating them. You know, they only people really only
Speaker 4: care if you're like dating each other.
Speaker 3: What was like one of the hottest hookups or meetups
Speaker 3: that you can remember having.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty exploitit or like t M I,
Speaker 4: but I didn't like I didn't like, I didn't not
Speaker 4: for like a long time. Okay, so you were ready, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was really ready, but then.
Speaker 2: Your voice just dropped it often when he said you
Speaker 2: were ready.
Speaker 4: But then I went to the parkah, so just like
Speaker 4: it's hell, are people here?
Speaker 2: Apparently?
Speaker 4: So I meet this like Puerto Rican guy and you.
Speaker 2: Know, we're like the one.
Speaker 4: We're doing, the one doing the two and this guy
Speaker 4: is just like watching us. But like I think that
Speaker 4: what made it so hot was like when I it
Speaker 4: was like a three day nuts when I know, it
Speaker 4: was just so much and then he just like he
Speaker 4: just not as soon as I did that with the
Speaker 4: guy that was watching. So that was probably the hottest,
Speaker 4: just because it was just so much none. I was
Speaker 4: just like it felt so good. But other than that,
Speaker 4: like I feel like every time I do it, it's hot,
Speaker 4: Like why would I do it? And it's not hot?
Speaker 4: Like those are the type of people that have a
Speaker 4: problem with like you're just out here fucking just the fuck.
Speaker 4: Like it's okay to like just do it as an activity,
Speaker 4: but like what did you get from this? Like did
Speaker 4: you even enjoy it? You know, like did you enjoy it?
Speaker 4: Or are you just doing it just to do it?
Speaker 2: So well, sometimes you don't know until you meet up
Speaker 2: with the person, right, you think you're gonna enjoy it,
Speaker 2: and then you get there and you're like, oops, maybe not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's when you have to do the Oh I
Speaker 4: got to go somewhere or I have to do something
Speaker 4: or someone cold. Yeah, because there's no point in doing
Speaker 4: it if there's not like a if you're going to
Speaker 4: regret it after it's just like bro, like it's not fun,
Speaker 4: not fun at all.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've ever been in, uh something
Speaker 1: close to a relationship with another guy?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, Like I've been in a relationship where
Speaker 4: I was more recently, like we were both on the
Speaker 4: same page in terms of like out or like halfway out.
Speaker 4: We're both like halfway out, so we're very understanding both family,
Speaker 4: same family problems, whatever. And then I've been with a
Speaker 4: guy who is like on the opposite page of me,
Speaker 4: like just told his parents his whole team knows blah
Speaker 4: blah blah, and yeah, like I don't know, Like it
Speaker 4: was definitely different experiences, But I think I must date
Speaker 4: someone on the same page as me, because if not,
Speaker 4: like I was looking cringed out the fact that you
Speaker 4: to his parents like, damn, bro, like I don't have
Speaker 4: confident in you anymore. Yeah, he probably wasn't until his parents,
Speaker 4: Like I don't see it. I don't want that. It's
Speaker 4: not fun it whatsoever, so.
Speaker 2: Scary and I'm out, Like that seems really terrify. Ye,
Speaker 2: But thinking about like when I wasn't out and then,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: I've always nowt, but like there was no there was
Speaker 3: a couple of years where I was masquerading as a
Speaker 3: straight man.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, see, you're giving me flashbacks to like high
Speaker 1: school and college. Like I was to school very out,
Speaker 1: but in college I still hadn't come out to my parents.
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I was dating men, I was like
Speaker 3: going to a gay party. I was very out socially,
Speaker 3: but I went to school on Rhode Island. My parents
Speaker 3: were in Florida, so I was like, how the fun Yeah,
Speaker 3: absolutely not. And they're Puerto Rican, they're Catholic. I was like, okay,
Speaker 3: I like I don't even want to start. And then
Speaker 3: the funny thing is my first job out of college
Speaker 3: was editing for a gay porn company. I didn't tell them,
Speaker 3: but my mom found out about that. And she found
Speaker 3: out about that before I had told her myself I
Speaker 3: was gay.
Speaker 2: She kind of knew, right, like your parents are our suspect.
Speaker 1: But it was just really funny because I had to
Speaker 1: come out to my mom as like a gay porn
Speaker 1: editor and gay at the same time.
Speaker 4: But I thought they weren't good with technology. Bro, how
Speaker 4: did they find out?
Speaker 3: I'm like, how did she find out about this job?
Speaker 2: So that was my fault.
Speaker 1: I went on a comedy show because they were looking
Speaker 1: to interview a porn producer. Oh god, but it was
Speaker 1: like a how Many Central show? And I was like,
Speaker 1: my mom doesn't watch Comedy Central? Houck is she ever
Speaker 1: gonna find this? This was like well before like like
Speaker 1: YouTube was huge, or like she had a smartphone, even
Speaker 1: like I didn't even have a smartphone. I did that
Speaker 1: interview and she only found it because I think she
Speaker 1: was getting divorced from my dad, and my dad found
Speaker 1: it and like tried to bring it up for I
Speaker 1: don't know how to piss her off or something. So
Speaker 1: it's just really funny. And I was like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you did see that interview. It was funny, right, Like
Speaker 1: it was wild.
Speaker 4: Mom, I hope you're not watching Sniffies.
Speaker 1: To be fair, I did not have a mask on
Speaker 1: when I did my interview. I was very Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was face out. I had a mustache. It was hard
Speaker 1: to miss.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The thing about these you never know, like you
Speaker 4: never know who's DL obviously d O. So like anyone
Speaker 4: can be watching this, like my fucking uncles or my dad.
Speaker 4: That shit is wild. But I'm not updating anything on LinkedIn,
Speaker 4: and so like we should be good. Yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 4: not going like a j letter or like out magazine
Speaker 4: or some shit.
Speaker 1: I mentioned a LinkedIn status like I'm bravely coming out
Speaker 1: as DL.
Speaker 2: Podcast. Yeah I love that.
Speaker 4: That's an exclusive. That's good for you guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did get the exclusive. We get that sixty
Speaker 1: minutes blurred face voice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is great. I feel like a journalist. It's
Speaker 3: giving budget it's giving budget. It's giving budget.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you so much for showing up and sitting
Speaker 3: down with us and having a conversation. It's been such
Speaker 3: a pleasure getting to know you a little bit better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really appreciate it. Your stories are really hot and
Speaker 1: it was also kind of fun. And I you know,
Speaker 1: I hope one day this does become less stressful for you.
Speaker 1: But I think you've offered so much insight to our
Speaker 1: audience on why some people might not feel ready or
Speaker 1: safe coming out. And I think it's really important to again,
Speaker 1: like Chris said to me, people where they're at for sure.
Speaker 4: Me where I am. It's a good position.
Speaker 2: In the park.
Speaker 1: Maybe another Puerto Rican in the park. Stick around, don't
Speaker 1: go anywhere.
Speaker 2: Today's episode was really great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what I hope that people get from it,
Speaker 3: whether you're out or you're not out, that there is
Speaker 3: a place for you in this world, and if you
Speaker 3: aren't finding what you're looking for in terms of like community,
Speaker 3: that just go where it's warm, you know, find the
Speaker 3: people that do care about who you are and where
Speaker 3: your safety lies, and go to them. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think one of the biggest takeaways for me
Speaker 1: from this episode is how often we point the finger
Speaker 1: people who are in the closet or DL folks and
Speaker 1: call them liars and you know, to tell them that
Speaker 1: they are holding sort of internalized homophobia. But what I've
Speaker 1: gotten from the conversation with our last guest in particular,
Speaker 1: is that it's usually external forces that make people feel
Speaker 1: pressure to stay in the closet.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's an individual's fault. It's our culture.
Speaker 1: It's a mentality of homophobia and queer phobia that still
Speaker 1: pervades so many parts of our culture and cultures around
Speaker 1: the globe. So really, to me, it seems like an
Speaker 1: institutional and cultural problem. And I hope that the next time,
Speaker 1: you know, you feel the urge to read someone down
Speaker 1: for being in the closet or identifying as DL, you
Speaker 1: think about the external factors that might be playing into
Speaker 1: that decision, and how for some people it really is
Speaker 1: a matter of.
Speaker 2: Security, yeah, and safety, you know.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, that is the end of this episode
Speaker 3: of Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. It's been such
Speaker 1: a wild ride, and we hope you tune in for
Speaker 1: the next one. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions is directed by Adam Barron,
Speaker 1: produced by Stevie Williams and Karen mc femino, and executive
Speaker 1: produced by Elin Martin.
Speaker 3: Cruising Confessions is presented by Sniffy's, the ultimate map based cruising.
Speaker 2: Platform for gay by and curious people ready to cruise.
Speaker 3: Check out the map at snippies dot com and follow
Speaker 3: Sniffy's on socials at Snippy's app.
Speaker 5: Put job Good, put job, put put Joe puts up