1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: The bail hearing for Gallen Maxwell ended with the judge 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: ruling that she must span the next year behind bars 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges. The judge sighted Maxwell's 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: extraordinary financial resources and international ties and concluded there was 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: a substantial risk that Maxwell would flee the country. The 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: British socialite pleaded not guilty to charges that she helped 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: her longtime boyfriend Jeffrey Epstein run a sex trafficking scheme 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: targeting girls as young as fourteen. The bail hearing offered 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: a glimpse at Maxwell's strategy at trial and at her 11 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: life hiding from authorities at a luxurious secluded a state 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: in New Hampshire, guarded around the clock by a team 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: of former British military Joining me as Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: Legal reporter, pat you actually attended the hearing, So tell 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: us what it was like in this in the midst 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: of the coronavirus pandemic. Well, it's of the first hearings 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: that was held in the Seroal Courthouse in Lower Manhattan, 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: and you know this is a place that's seen big trials, 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: show trials of world Calm and Bernie made Off case 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: and it's been shut down throughout the pandemic, and they 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: opened it earlier this month for hearing and it's open 22 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: to the public that on a restricted basis. You have 23 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to get your temperature checks before you go in. We 24 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: went in and they had the Central Jury Room, which 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: is this massive room where the jury potential jurors gather 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: before they go up to trial. They had this massive room, 27 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: socially distanced chairs, so about six ft apart. It was 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 1: seating for about sixty people, and they had giant screens overhead, 29 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: and everybody was in remote places. So Glenne Maxwell was 30 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: in a lawyer's conference room over a screen, probably a 31 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: laptop in the federal jail in Brooklyn. Per lawyer Mark 32 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: Cohen was in his office. The judge was apparently at 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: her possibly her home office. She was not in the courthouse, 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: I was told, And everybody was appearing virtually, so it 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: kind of unusual to see court not in court. Tell 36 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: us about Maxwell's appearance. What did she look like? Well, 37 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: her lawyer had complained that since she arrived at the MDC, 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: they had not allowed her to take a shower for 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: seventy two hours. She seems in great physical shape. She 40 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: had her hair pulled back in a bun. She was 41 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: wearing brown looked like short sleeve jail fatigues. And she 42 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: speaks in a very posh, clipped, educated British accent, very composed. 43 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: She's had her shoulders squared, and she was really attentive 44 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: throughout the hearing. Was there a separate hearing for the 45 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: bail as opposed to the pola. The hearing happened in 46 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: several chapters. The first one is they have to do 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: a whole proviso where the judge advises everybody be and 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: and asks Maxwell if she's consenting to appear. Virtually, she 49 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: has a right to be in the courthouse and have appearance, 50 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: but because of the coronavirus pandemic, the courts are closed 51 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: and this was going to be happening virtually, So that 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: was the first part. Second part was she was arraigned 53 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: and entered a not guilty plea, and then the next 54 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: part was the prosecutors and the defense lawyers made their 55 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 1: best arguments for why Maxwell should get bail. Her lawyers 56 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: were arguing or why she should not be bailed because 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: she poses a flight risk. So let's talk first about 58 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: some of her arguments for bail. Of course, COVID nine 59 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: team and her lawyer is Mark Cohen, who's a former 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: federal prosecutor in Brooklyn. He argued that she should get 61 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: five million dollars bond because keeping her in the jail, 62 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: it's cumbersome and too difficult to show her all these 63 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: thousands of pages of documents. He said he had to 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: read most of the stuff over the own to her. 65 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: Because all the federal jails are under shut down, they 66 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: can't have attorney's visits for the reason that the attorneys 67 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: could bring COVID into the jail or the virus could 68 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: get spread, so there are no attorney visits. Everything's done 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: virtually over video conferencing, So showing a client evidence over 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: a screen and having them read it over the screen 71 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: is really really difficult. And they only get a limited 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: amount of time anyway in these for these lawyer conferences, 73 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: So imagine only getting an hour to share your clients 74 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: two thousand pages of documents. So that was number one. 75 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: This was going to hamper her ability to defend herself. Secondly, 76 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: they argued she's at risk because she's fifty eight, that 77 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: she could get coronavirus, but the judge noted that she 78 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: had not raised any pre existing conditions that would possibly 79 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: put her at risk. So the judge, who has in 80 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: the past allowed other people out of prison because of 81 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: the virus, did not make a finding on that, so 82 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: that was a losing argument for her. Now, one of 83 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: the alleged victims testified. Her name is Annie Farmer. She 84 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: says she was sixteen years old when she met Maxwell, 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: and Maxwell invited her to meet Epstein because he was 86 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: going to offer her to pay for her education. She 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: was invited for a weekend at this New Mexico retreat 88 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: with other high school students because they were meeting this 89 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: finance here who was looking for intelligent children to help 90 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: back their education. And she find herself all alone with 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell and a New Mexico ranch, and that's 92 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: when the abuse started. So she spoke out, and the 93 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: victims are entitled to speak out, you know, don't allow 94 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: this person out because of the harm they've caused me. 95 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: That's under the federal world. I've been talking to Bloomberg 96 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: legal reporter Pat Hurtado about Galine Maxwell's bail hearing. Was 97 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: the prosecutor's argument, basically that there's nothing that can ensure 98 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: that she won't leave the jurisdiction. Yeah, that was the argument. 99 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: Maxwell wanted out on five million dollar a bomb secured 100 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: by six people unnamed to she said, we're siblings, unnamed. 101 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: She wasn't putting up any of her money. She was 102 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: offering to put up property about three point seven five 103 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: million in the UK, that's hers, but she was not 104 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: offering to put up any of her own money. The 105 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: government said she has all these mysterious finances. There seemed 106 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: to be possibly fifteen bank accounts, including a Swiss bank 107 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: account which appears to hold up more than twenty million dollars, 108 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: and there's been a lot of transactions going back and 109 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,679 Speaker 1: forth where money would be funneled from an Epstein account 110 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: to her account, back and forth. And they're not clear 111 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: the origins of the money or how much she has. 112 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: They know she has at least one Swiss bank account 113 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: and where this money went. She sold an apartment to 114 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: townhouse It's pretty County on East sixty five Street on 115 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: the upper east Side for about fifteen million a couple 116 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and the government says we don't 117 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: know where that money went. And then she bought this 118 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: how in New Hampshire where they arrested her, you know, 119 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: a hundred fifty six acres in Bradford, New Hampshire for 120 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: one point two million, but it was purchased under an LLC. 121 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: And the government said there were all these red flags. 122 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: When they questioned Maxwell, she they said she's been less 123 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: than truthful. For example, when pre trial it is called 124 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: pre trial services and it's the court people who interviewed 125 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: the person and say, okay, you just got arrested. Tell 126 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: us a bit about yourself. Do you have any bank accounts? 127 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: You know, help us out here because we're trying to 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,119 Speaker 1: assess if you're eligible for bail or if you're too poor. 129 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: You need as a sense lawyer so you can get 130 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: a federal defender paid for by the government. Maxwell. When 131 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: they asked her where she lived, she said, oh, I 132 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: live in a house. I don't know who owns it, 133 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: but the people who own it let me live there. 134 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: And the government said that was very curious to them 135 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: because they got a call from the real estate agent 136 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: who sold the New Hampshire proper the who said that 137 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: they recognized Galae Maxwell as the woman who had come 138 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: with a man. The man said his name was Scott 139 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: and the woman said her name was Jen, and how 140 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: he introduced himself as retired British military who was working 141 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: on a book, and she introduced herself as Jen Marshall 142 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: and said she was a journalist who is looking for privacy. 143 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: So the circumstances of I don't know who owns my house, 144 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: but the real estate agent said, this is the woman 145 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: I recognized to introduced herself as somebody completely different. The 146 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: government said these are ruses that show that she's willing 147 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: to be less than forthcoming and hide off the grid 148 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: to conceal herself, and that she's been hiding for the 149 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: last year, and Judge finally decided with the government there 150 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: was just too much risk and too many unknown factors 151 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: about her. She's also a French citizen, and France does 152 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: an extradited citizens, so that's also a problem. We got 153 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: some insight into how she was living while she was 154 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: hiding in New Hampshire, including that she had a team 155 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: of former British military guarding her. Yeah, and the defense 156 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: lawyer Mark Cohen was making an argument that Galais Maxwell 157 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: has been the victim of a sensatiable media basically that 158 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: have been going after her, so that Maxwell hired these 159 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: people was a team of former British military who guarded 160 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: her compound and that when the FBI says, when they 161 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: got to her gate, it was locked. They had to 162 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: cut the lock. They were immediately confronted with a guard 163 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: who demanded who they were, and they announced that they 164 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: were FBI and they were there to arrest her. They 165 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: go up to the front door and one of them 166 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: looks through the window and sees Maxwell running away from 167 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: the door, and then they announced themselves and they say 168 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: they had to breach the door, and then they went 169 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: in and they found her hiding in another room. One 170 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: of the agents found a cell phone wrapped in tinfoil, 171 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: which they said was a misguided effort to avoid being 172 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: tracked on her phone. Now, her lawyer said this is 173 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: all because Maxwell has been victimized by the media who's 174 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: always trying to track her down. So this is what 175 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,079 Speaker 1: she did. She hired guard to protect her from the press, 176 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: and that the phone last year sometime that he claimed 177 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: that her phone had been hacked by British press and 178 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: that's why she was wrapping it in tinfoil to avoid 179 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: this phone from being hacked by the press. When the 180 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: judge said no bail, you're going to be in jail 181 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: for about a year until your trial, did she have 182 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: a visible reaction. I mean, some people said they saw 183 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: her wiping a tear from her eye. What I saw 184 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: is that almost looks like someone who was sitting up straight, 185 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: very perky and attentive, and she had the look of 186 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: you know, she was totally impassive expression the whole time. 187 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: But when she lost that argument and the judge that 188 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: I find her a risk, she has the ability to flee. 189 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: There's no circumstances I feel comfortable allowing her out. She 190 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: seemed to deflate, and her shoulders sagged, and she looked 191 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: she cast her eyes down and she stopped looking up, 192 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: so it looked like, you know, somebody, the air went 193 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: out of her. The defenses arguments at the bail hearing 194 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 1: hint at possible trial strategies from Maxwell, and one was 195 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: challenging the credibility and the motives of the alleged victims, 196 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: one of whom had just testified. Yeah, and one of 197 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: the people that the defense lawyer Cohen went after was 198 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: Annie Farmer, and he basically, in a kind of a 199 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: parenthetical aside, said, you know, this is a woman who 200 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: has filed a lawsuit seeking millions of dollars from this Maxwell, 201 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: who has also applied for There's an Epstein Victims compensation 202 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: fund est ablished out of this more than six million 203 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: dollars that was in Epstein's estate when he died last 204 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: August in a federal jail awaiting sex trafficking charges. So 205 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: in May they worked out a deal where they established 206 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: this fund that would have trustees and the victims of 207 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: Epstein's abuse could make applications to be compensated because of 208 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: the abuse. And he was basically suggesting, don't listen to 209 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: any Farmer because she wants money and she's seeking millions 210 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: from Maxwell, and she's going to get millions from Epstein's fund. 211 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: Is that kind of attack on the alleged victims, who 212 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: were teenagers at the time risky, especially in the me 213 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: too era? Mighty backfire a trial? Um, Yeah, you know, 214 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting because I covered Harvey Weinstein's trial and it 215 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: was a similar kind of approach that it has not 216 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: and Bill Cosby certainly did it in his trial, so 217 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: it hasn't been successful in the Post meets New World. 218 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: And I asked, um, David Boys is a lawyer for 219 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: any farmer and he represents other victims. And I said, 220 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: are you confident you know there's if you're aware of it. 221 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: There's a history of litigation. Um. Some of the victims 222 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: did sue Epstein in federal court. Um. There's a long 223 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: travail of lawsuits and cases. Um. After the victims find 224 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: out that there was a plea deal that Epstein got 225 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: in the Southern District of Florida where he evaded prosecution, 226 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: they were upset that they were cut out. And you know, 227 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: under the law, it's called a Crime Victims Restitution Act 228 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: where victims can be have to be notified and then 229 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: they get to participate and say this person did this 230 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: to me, and I want you to judge to know 231 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: to inform the judge for a sentence. Well, these people 232 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: got didn't get told. And the women found out after 233 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: the fact that he got a plea deal and it 234 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: was all over. The case was over. So UM, the 235 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: as women basically want that there's a lot of out there. 236 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: There's depositions, there's testimony. Um, they've spoken out, they filed lawsuits, 237 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: So when I was asking David boys, are you worried 238 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: about some of these victims that they may get assailed? 239 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: And are new confident that Annie Farm her, knowing what 240 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: happened today, will be able to sit withstand this kind 241 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: of cross examination if maxwell lawyers go after her, and 242 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: he said, fine, I'm perfectly confident she's going to stand 243 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: up just fine. So you know, it remains to be seen. 244 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: It would be quite a trial because it will be 245 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: Epstein's top lieutenant that these young women said, you know, 246 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: I was fourteen years old. I was sixteen years old, 247 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: and this lady came up to me and she seemed 248 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: so nice, and she befriended me, and she checked me 249 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: into Epstein's world. Did the defense attorney also try to 250 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: portray Maxwell as a bit of a victim herself here, 251 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: which seems like it would be a stretch before a jury. Well, 252 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: he indicated that she a didn't know anything was going on, 253 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: and then it seemed like he could possibly be indicating 254 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: that that might be an avenue they're going to explore 255 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: she didn't know what was going on behind closed doors. 256 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: I wasn't there, I didn't know it. But secondly that 257 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: if she was involved. If there was any involvement, it 258 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: was because she was in Epstein's thraw kind of signaled 259 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: that he was going to raise that it's got to 260 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: be it's going to be more developed, I believe, you 261 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: know when we see down the road when these papers 262 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: get filed and the motions start getting made and there's 263 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: a July trial day, so we'll have a July twelve 264 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: one trial day. That's literally going to be nearly two 265 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: years to the day from when Epstein first got arrested. 266 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: In reading about it, it seems as if the defense 267 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: attorney was just throwing everything against the wall to see 268 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: what would stick, even saying that, oh, there were no 269 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: video or audio tapes of what happened, which is certainly 270 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: not a requirement right right, and and once that was 271 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: one thing that David Boys was saying to me after 272 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: the hearing, that, um, you don't need stuff in this 273 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: day and age, and another defense lawyers said this former 274 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: prosecutor said this to me that you know, that was 275 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: an argument you made, Oh there's no video, and people say, 276 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: but there was this that argument was made before cell 277 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: phone You know, people make cell phone videos all the time. 278 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: And now we see what happened to George Floyd, for example. 279 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: But there is the testimony. These these former prosecutors and 280 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: boys were saying, if you hear the steering accounts from 281 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: a woman, and the jury assesses whether that person is 282 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: credible the story enough is going to be pretty potent 283 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: evidence before a jury. And the other thing the government 284 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 1: says is they have travel records, photographs, and other material 285 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: that will actually, um, you know, corroborate what these young 286 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: women said happen, even though it's twenty five years old. 287 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: I have to say that it seems as if since 288 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide that all the attention that might 289 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: have been on his trial and him and all the 290 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: blame is going to be pushed to her. Yeah. I 291 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: think that's what's happened. I mean, um, there's an speculation 292 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: of if she played guilty, could she possibly give up 293 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: other people in the network. But um, the former prosecutors 294 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: I spoke to said, you know, you you view her. 295 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: She was Epstein from the victim's accounts. She was Epstein's enabler. 296 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: She was the one that enticed and lured these young women, teenagers, 297 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: kids into his orbits and constantly funneled this these women. 298 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: And then also the government says she was present so 299 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,880 Speaker 1: that she kind of would quote unquote normalize the abuse. Well, 300 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: it can't be so bad as this lady. She is, 301 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: this nice lady. Oh you're asking me to take my 302 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: clothes off to do a massage. Oh, well, the lady's 303 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: still here, you know, and she helped normalize this a 304 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: barrent behavior for these poor kids, many of whom were 305 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: homeless or destitute or came from broken homes. So it's 306 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein died in August of twenty but this is 307 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: as close as you get to his second in command. 308 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: And you know, if she was involved with this, with 309 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: this behavior as the as the victims say she was, 310 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: then you know it's uh, there's there's a reason why 311 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: she's going to go to trial. One final question, is 312 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: anyone considering or is there a thought that since she'll 313 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: be in jail for a year, that they'll be pressure 314 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: on her to lead guilty. And I mean, would the 315 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: government even want to give her a deal? Yeah, some 316 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: of the some of the people I was talking to 317 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 1: said yes, this would be you know, she may get 318 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: realized it's not so much fun being in lock up. 319 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,360 Speaker 1: It's not fun to be told when to take a shower. 320 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: And the conditions at the Federal jail in Brooklyn have 321 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: come under incredible scrutiny for the lack of you know, 322 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: the women don't get enough air, they don't get time outside, 323 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: and they don't get even get sunlight. It's a Some 324 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: of the dormitories are like one big giant room with 325 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of bunk beds side by side. And during 326 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: the pandemic, they've been complaints that the women have been 327 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: ordered during a lockdown. There's been some situations whatever security situations, 328 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: and they're told to sit on their beds all day 329 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: long and don't move, and they have to be escorted 330 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom and they're not necessarily allowed to. 331 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: So it's been kind of you know, it's not the 332 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: greatest conditions. So if she's in these conditions when she's 333 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: used to living quite the life, living very well. She's 334 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: the daughter of a British publishing baron, Robert Maxwell. She 335 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: grew up, she went to Oxford, She's lived very very 336 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: high life and now suddenly the reality may be sinking 337 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: in for her in a federal jail. Not a lot 338 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: of fun facing federal charges that maybe it's time to 339 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 1: kind of deal with the government and try to get 340 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: some leniency, whether or not they get offered to her, 341 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and whether or not it's a deal that she accepts, 342 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: and whether or not, you know, she might have to 343 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: throw herself on the mercy of the court, and if 344 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: whether or not she wants to give up other people 345 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: and the government possibly might be suspicious if she starts 346 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: pointing fingers at other people when they know otherwise that 347 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: she was more directly involved than they were. It's called 348 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: cooperating down. So whether you would go point down to 349 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: a person lower on the on pyramid, on the power 350 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: pyramid and say, oh, it's their fault, you know, that's 351 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: not going to look good for her before a federal 352 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: judge trying to implicate someone else and claim that she's 353 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: less culpable. So it remains to be saying, what's going 354 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: to happen next? And if she gave up to other people, um, 355 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 1: who would they be. Someone likened this to somebody who's 356 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: the head of a drug kingpin running a drug conspiracy 357 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: right drug trafficking. The drug kingpin dies, but his top 358 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: lieutenant is still around. So if that top lieutenant wants 359 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: to plead guilty. Who are they going to implicate? There 360 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: might be other people involved that they're the still number 361 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: two in this this organization. So what they were suggesting 362 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: to me as she may decide to point fingers at 363 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: other people, but they may just be other clients. And 364 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: I'm not condoning those other individuals who may have been 365 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: clients because they were having sex with underage girls. But um, 366 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: in the world of who's culpable and Jeffrey and Epstein's 367 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: sex trafficking ring, it's gonna be equation. The government's going 368 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: to have to work out. Thanks so much for being 369 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: on the Bloomberg A Show, Patty. That's Patricia Hurtado, Bloomberg 370 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: Legal Reporter. After last minute legal battles and exhausting all 371 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: legal avenues, the Texas Republican Party has given in and 372 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: is having its convention online. The Texas State Supreme Court 373 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: refused to force the city of Houston to allow the 374 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: party to host its convention indoors at the George R. 375 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,919 Speaker 1: Brown Convention Center as the city is fighting the coronavirus pandemic. 376 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: Joining me is Bloomberg Legal reporter Laurel Culkins So Laurel 377 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: tell us about the legal whirlwind. Okay, well, it all 378 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: erupted at the last minute, sort of the middle of 379 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: last week when Houston's Mayor Sylvester Turner, after repeatedly trying 380 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: and failing to convince the Texas Republican Party to shift 381 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: to a virtual convention, instructed convention officials to find a 382 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: way out of the contract. And they've decided that the 383 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: risk of six thousand more or less delegates coming to 384 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: the city of Houston, which is an epidemic hot zone 385 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: at this point, was simply too great a risk for 386 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: a health stand point to both the attendees and a 387 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: local convention and hotel and restaurant workers. So they triggered 388 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: the forced masure clause, which is an escape clause in 389 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: contracts that says, if you cannot perform this contract, you 390 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: don't have to. Okay. Immediately, two different groups of Republicans suit, 391 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: and they suit on different grounds. The Texas Republican Party 392 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: itself said, well, that's actually not forced masure. You can 393 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: safely hold a convention for six thousand people in a 394 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: hall built for fifty thousand people with appropriate social distancing 395 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: and cleaning procedures. You just don't want to, and that's 396 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: an improper use of forced masure. Well, the other group, 397 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: let's just call them the rogue Republican big wigs because 398 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: they're not actually the Texas Republican Party. They also sued, 399 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: and they claimed constitutional ground that Turner, who is a Democrat, 400 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: was squashing their constitutional rights to free speech and assembly 401 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: and it was a political hit job by a Democrat 402 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: at and the rival political party, And both groups made 403 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: a great deal of the contrast between the way Sylvester 404 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: Turner vocally supported the Black Lives Matter marchers, which drew 405 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: sixty thousand protesters to Houston City streets last month, with 406 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: his saying, well, you can't safely have Republicans meet indoors 407 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: with six thousand people this month. Now, the city said, obviously, 408 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: an outdoor gathering like that is different than an indoor gathering, 409 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: especially given the World Health Organization's recent guidance that tiny 410 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: aerosolized particles of coronavirus can readily transmit the disease indoors. 411 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: That's the groundwork that all the fighting started on, and 412 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: at one point it was actually active in front of 413 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: three courts at the same time, but then quite a 414 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: roller coaster. So take us through the legal proceedings on 415 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: the lower courts all the way up to the Texas 416 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: Supreme Court. There were two different lower court judges that 417 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: were looking at the two different groups lawsuits separately. Both 418 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: of the judges were Democrats, because all of the local 419 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: state court judges in Houston are Democrats. Both judges, for 420 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: different reasons, rejected the Republican group's request for an emergency 421 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: order forcing the city to put the convention back on track. 422 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: So both of these groups over the weekend ran to 423 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: the Texas Supreme Court. They just skipped right over the 424 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: intermediate pelate courts, went straight to the Texas Supreme Court, 425 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 1: which by the way, is all Republican, and they were 426 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: hoping they would get a different answer there well on Sunday. 427 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: On Monday morning, hard to keep up. Monday morning, the 428 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: State Supreme Court said, you know, nice, try, but even 429 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: if your political rights are getting squashed, you don't have 430 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: the right to commandeer the convention center when they've appropriately 431 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: exercised an escape clause in a contract. So that ended 432 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: that aspect of it. And yet there was still a 433 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: local judge that had an emergency order in front of him. 434 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: Monday morning, so he held a hearing all Monday and 435 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: essentially ended up in the same place that the Texas 436 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,199 Speaker 1: Supreme Court had ended up, where he said, it's a 437 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: contract case. They properly invoked the escape clause. You can 438 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: just fight about the damages down the road. We're not 439 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: putting the convention back on. That was Monday. So then 440 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: Monday night, the state Republican party leadership their executive committee 441 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: meeting and voted to go ahead and moved to convention 442 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: into a virtual online basis, which they had sort of 443 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: been planning for back since March when this whole pandemic 444 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 1: thing started gaining traction. They appropriately had a Plan B. 445 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 1: So they voted to go to Plan B. And you 446 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: would think that beie the end of it Monday night, 447 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: but no, the die hard, the rogue Republicans refused to 448 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: give up, and on Tuesday they grafted their constitutional claims 449 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,959 Speaker 1: over the convention being canceled to an existing lawsuit they 450 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: had in federal court in Houston that was fighting actually 451 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: on a different matter about the Texas governors COVID business 452 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: restrictions and contract tracing and all kinds of constitutional claims 453 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: related to that business. And you think that was a 454 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,239 Speaker 1: stretch to try to join all those people together on 455 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: that claim, and it was a stretch. But the reason 456 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: they did it was the federal judge that they had 457 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: drawn in that case is well known for anti government views. 458 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: He he rules against the government every chance to get 459 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: and he smacked them around in the process. So they thought, well, 460 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: it's worth a shot. And so on Wednesday, the federal 461 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: judge Hella hearing almost all day long, and he tortured 462 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: the City of Houston attorneys with questions that at one 463 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: point seriously had been thinking he was going to put 464 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: the Republican Convention back on track, until after hours late 465 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: in the day the judge said, no, it's likely true 466 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: that the Republican Party's political rights were trampled, you know, 467 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: violation of constant shores. But it's just too late and 468 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: they have a plan B that they're already working anyway, 469 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna let you do it. Is the end. 470 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: It is, finally is. I was texting with the lawyer afterwards, 471 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, it's this, really it is. 472 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: The silver bullet been shot into this thing. And uh. 473 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: He admitted that it was just too late and they 474 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: were going to have to go online, and in truth, 475 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: they've been planning to do that as a plan B 476 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: all along. But you know, they want to have their 477 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: party hats, they want to have their you know, crazy 478 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: banners and and political meetings and that's actually their right 479 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: as a political party to meet however they choot and 480 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: however they prefer. That is a constitution all right, under 481 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: both the state Constitution and the federal Constitution. But like 482 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: the Texas Supreme Court said, in the midst of a 483 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: pandemic and when certain conditions trigger the city can appropriately 484 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: say you just can't do that here. Thanks Laurel. That's 485 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: Laurel Calkins, Lburg legal reporter. I'm June Brusso and this 486 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: is Bilburg.